The May 2015 episode of JW Broadcasting was billed by its host, Governing Body member Stephen Lett, as being a “historic” one. It ended up being just that, but for none of the reasons given.
Lett opened the program by drawing attention to the fact that all seven Governing Body members have now hosted JW Broadcasting (tv.jw.org), and hailed the fact that approval has now been given to end the project’s trial period and roll it out on a permanent basis in multiple languages.
If this amounts to a “historic” development, then either Lett is shaky on what “historic” means, or anything new that happens anywhere to anyone can have the same superlative applied.
What WAS historic about the program was that it featured, for the first time, a Governing Body member admitting to the organization being in a financially precarious situation, with Lett revealing a shortfall between projected income and expenditure for the forthcoming fiscal period.
This website has long pointed to a number of omens that not all is well for Watchtower financially – chief among these being the slashing of branch offices and a whopping 39% reduction in monthly magazine printing. But this is the first time, at least to my knowledge, that the organization has come clean about being in financial difficulties – albeit with a notable lack of transparency about the actual figures involved.
Unsurprisingly, Lett used the opportunity to urge Witnesses to donate, and rather comically set about doing this by trying to distance the organization from others who “coerce” their followers to give money…
The above video is my own montage of Lett’s pleas for donations. To watch the full, 1-hour 36-minute unedited program, please click here.
From lack of transparency to blatant deception
As with the previous seven JW Broadcasting episodes, I will be making a full YouTube rebuttal to Lett’s performance in the next week or so. But I wanted to take this opportunity to point out the complete lack of transparency regarding funds in this episode, and highlight at least two areas in which Lett has been blatantly deceitful.
If you are going to divulge a shortfall in funds, particularly with the aim of leveraging more donations (or “valuable things”) from a pool of supporters who are already lagging in this regard, the least you can do is treat them like adults and give some hard numbers. Nowhere in Lett’s rather patronizing, condescending comments is a single figure cited regarding the projected amounts of income and expenditure, and the shortfall between the two. Everything is left to the imagination (or, more accurately, gullibility) of the viewer.
Then you have the flat-out lies regarding the new donation arrangement for kingdom hall construction, and the amount of money involved in the move to Warwick.
When Lett first mentioned feedback from Circuit Overseers regarding the new donation arrangement, the first thought that whizzed through my head was: “Thank goodness! The publishers have seen straight through the stealth-tithing scam and have been giving Circuit Overseers a piece of their mind.”
But according to Lett, rather than there being any dissatisfaction with the new arrangement, the cause of concern for Circuit Overseers is merely that there is a misconception among publishers that Watchtower is flush with money because it has “cancelled” the loans and mortgages of congregations who owe the organization for new kingdom halls.
Cue facepalm, and heavy sigh of despair…
As already reported by this website, a full unabridged reading of the letters to elders dated March 29 and May 12, 2014 reveals that Watchtower has not stopped congregations from sending in money under the new arrangement. Rather, it has insisted that at least the same amount of money be sent through each month for congregations who were already paying off debts, and that congregations without debts should start sending in money each month as though they were in debt!
And ALL congregations, whether previously indebted or not, have been ordered to send in any surplus of funds, leaving only $5,000 plus three months’ worth of operating costs in the local coffers. So rather than saving money for congregations, Watchtower is demanding more from them as a result of the recent changes.
And keep in mind that if Watchtower ever goes bust (an increasingly likely scenario) the kingdom halls will go straight down in flames with it under this new arrangement (being no longer financially independent), and none of the money invested in kingdom hall construction by local brothers will find its way back into their pockets.
In the twisted world of Watchtower, a Witness should pay for his or her local kingdom hall as though it is their responsibility, even though the kingdom hall is an asset ultimately belonging to Watchtower and Watchtower can (and will) get all the proceeds from selling it.
But you wouldn’t suspect any of this dreadful scam from Lett, who draws comparisons between the ‘generosity’ of Watchtower’s new stealth-tithing arrangement and the dropping of charges for literature in 1990 – a move which, by the way, arose only because Watchtower’s non-profit status was under threat.
This all represents a blatant deception on Lett’s part, relying entirely on the majority of viewers being blissfully ignorant of the letters to elders that were circulated last year, and the full scope of the new donation/tithing arrangement.
But if this weren’t enough, we then have what I think is the most bald-faced lie I have ever seen a Governing Body member utter into a camera…
The first thing to remember is that Watchtower has operated quite successfully for many years before the move to Warwick was proposed, so any attempt to fob the viewer off with some half-baked story that the proceeds of one unnamed “significant” Brooklyn property would offset only a few weeks of normal operating costs can be immediately dismissed.
Even if Watchtower were to sell one of its Brooklyn properties for only one dollar, that is a still a dollar they wouldn’t have had available to them in any of the years prior to the Warwick move being discussed – years when Watchtower had up to 116 branch offices in operation (in 2010) compared to only 90 today.
This leaves us with the breathtaking subterfuge of Lett’s suggestion that the sale of the Brooklyn property portfolio “is basically only financing the construction of World Headquarters in Warwick and the purchase of other properties that are needed to facilitate the move from Brooklyn in the future.”
Like many cults, Watchtower is less than open when it comes to divulging how much money it spends on various projects to those it holds responsible for picking up the tab. This means that information on what Watchtower is spending on the Warwick move is hard to come by at best, but there are two figures that give some indication of the amounts of cash involved.
Four separate neutral sources, namely The Brooklyn Paper, The Observer, The Real Deal and the New York Post all cite an estimated figure of $11.5 million for the building costs of the new Warwick headquarters. I am presently trying to verify the source of this estimate, but considering the complex is being built with mostly volunteer labor, such a low figure isn’t completely out of the question.
It has also been reported elsewhere that the Tuxedo complex, perhaps the most well-known facility for supporting the work at Warwick, cost Watchtower a mere $3.2 million.
Obviously there are a lot of other numbers we are missing for other properties and planning/development expenses (due entirely to Watchtower’s lack of transparency rather than any attempts to mislead or deceive on the part of anyone else), but even if we multiply the above two figures by 10 for the sake of argument, we are left with less than $150 million.
Contrast that with the 1 Billion Watchtower is making for the entire Brooklyn portfolio, with an eye-watering $375 million coming through for one transaction alone, and the depth of Lett’s deception should quickly become apparent.
The move from Brooklyn to Warwick IS an enormous money-spinner for the organization, commonly known as a property “flip,” and in no way can it be thought of as a like-for-like switch according to Lett’s blatant, bald-faced misrepresentation.
Nobody else to blame
If Watchtower is low on funds, which I am thrilled to hear confirmation of straight from the horse’s mouth (in more than one sense), it is NOT the fault of any misunderstanding on the part of ordinary Witnesses. If anything, most Witnesses woefully underestimate the breathtaking amount of money Watchtower has pocketed from selling off Brooklyn, thanks in no small measure to the Governing Body’s total, deliberate and ongoing financial information black-out.
There is only one direction in which the finger of blame should be pointed respecting the Governing Body’s monetary woes, and that is towards them. If the Governing Body is spending more money than they are receiving from the kindness and generosity of Witnesses, who are already hard-pressed as a result of the insane and immoral prohibition on higher education, then by no stretch of the imagination can they be thought of as either faithful or discreet.
Let’s just hope that, for many Witnesses watching this most recent parade of self-congratulation, exaggeration, lies and bluster, with Stephen Lett as the latest floundering, pompous ringmaster to hog the limelight in this grotesque JW Broadcasting circus sham, the penny has finally dropped.
Further reading…
- Rawstory article
- Friendly Atheist blog coverage of this article
- JWsurvey articles on Warwick move
- JWsurvey articles on Brooklyn sell-off
- JWsurvey articles on Watchtower’s downsizing
- JW Broadcasting video rebuttals
Related video…
“Do you really expect me to take seriously the findings of someone who was brought up as a Jehovah’s Witness …..”
Lenny, the cases are documented in his book and could easily be discredited if they weren’t factual. The fact that he was a Jehovah’s Witness is precisely the reason he was interested enough to find out whether their religious background had anything to do with their suicide. He was also able to ascertain that it was because they were shunned.
“…..but could not live up to its teachings.”
How do you know he couldn’t live up to their teachings? Maybe he chose to leave the organization because he started researching it and discovered that there were many lies, coverups and misquotes in their publications and finally came to the realization that maybe it wasn’t ‘The Truth’.
“As I’m sure you are well aware judging by the comments on this blog ,former Witnesses have a tendency to be biased in their views ……..”
That comment says nothing to me. I could say that you are biased in your views.
“…… and at times harbor ill will and resentment”.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but I have no ill will or resentment towards any Jehovah’s Witness. I still consider many of them my dear friends in spite of the situation (I excommunicated myself from the organization, not the people). I am so glad that I found the courage to get out 35 years ago and to start thinking for myself instead of allowing others to tell me how to live my life. If anything, I feel sympathy for those who are still trapped in the Watchtower and that hopefully they don’t suffer too much mental and emotional trauma when it comes tumbling down. I feel it’s only a matter of time.
In the first century, some Jewish Christians still wanted to follow the Law. (Acts 21:17-20) But Paul corrected them and helped them see that it was Jesus’ sacrifice, not animal sacrifices, that made forgiveness of sins possible. (Hebrews 10:5-10) Many of these Jewish Christians accepted Paul’s counsel and changed their thinking. We can learn an important lesson from their example. We need adjustments just as the first century christians, we need to accept them humbly. It will always be like this until we rieach perfection. Proverbes 4:18
BABY,
What a miraculous improvement in your writing! Methinks there are 2 babies out there!
You cannot call the decision taken in Acts an adjustment. There was nothing to adjust because there were only principles, not rules!
Besides, the flip flopping of the WTBTS, led by the governing body, follows no scriptural precedent.
New Light is simply a feeble misuse of a proverb to cover the WTBTS’ ignorance and stupidity.
There is no example of “old light” being wrong in the bible, but there are numerous examples of “old light” being totally wrong in your religion!
Why don’t you be a proper Christian and help us to bring the WTBTS to justice for its child abuse policies, domestic abuse policies and many other abuses? That is your Christian duty, not attempting to defend the indefensible!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
The GB are proven liars, that in itself is enough for anyone to run.
Indeed! Heed Psalm 26:4 :-)
@Lennylynx. Looking back at your comments last night you end a few with ‘YAWN YAWN ‘ which is totally Disrespectful to those who are genuinely trying to answer your Questions.
This IS The TYPICAL Reply from those JWs who are LOSING the Argument!!
You asked me for proof about those COMMITTING SUICIDE!! I GAVE YOU 5 Examples of Elders & Pioneers who either HANGED Themselves or Gassed Themselves. You Came Back with A VERY VERY UNKIND REPLY & a Strawman Argument that you weren’t an Expert & that you were only talking about those that were DISFELLOWSHIPPED, But I think It is WORSE & more HORRIBLE that these Committed Suicide while Still Faithful JWs at the time !! But No Sympathy from you How Distressing it must have been for those Affected!!
Looking back at your Comments I at First Felt Sympathy for you ,But the more you commented your TRUE CHARACTER came out Which is very SAD because Everyone on this Site was Trying to Help you not WASTE YOUR LIFE!!
AS THE YEARS ROLL BY you will see like those of us who REALLY WANTED to BELIEVE it Was the TRUTH have Learnt the HARD WAY with the Passage of Time.
You said those who are Accepted on Construction at Bethel as Architect, Civil Engineers,etc were such before they became witnesses BUT that doesn’t Negate the Argument that they Made Use of the Excellent University Education for 5 years !! Jehovah allowed Moses to learn all the Wisdom of the Egyptians & Mix with all the Worldly People likewise Daniel,Shadrach,Meshach& Abednego were mixing in Politics with all the Babylonian Hierarchy. If you are strong Spiritually you will maintain your Loyalty to God never mind where you are Educated.The Trades such as Building , Carpenters, Electrician,Plumbers can be more FOUL MOUTHED & VIOLENT and Bad Association than anyone I met at University!! I know what Environment I would prefer my Children to be Taught in !!
The GB is guided by God’s Holly Spirit, those who haved noted this, they saw that truth, by their relentless preaching work such as jesus and his disciples did.
@Baby. WHY Does the Holy Spirit Give the Spirit Directed GB WRONG INTERPRETATION of Scripture TIME & TIME Again.. 1874,1878,1910,1914,1915,1918,1925,1942,1975& in our 20th Century etc,etc !!
Is JEHOVAH HAVING a LAUGH with the GB & does he Find it Funny to Let The Millions of JW Have Wrong Information Time & Time again. Sheep& Goats, Who F& D Slave are… Up until 1927 Russell was the F&D slave(Page 143 Proclaimers Book) 1927 until 2013 the F& D Slave were the 144,000; Now it is JUST 7 Corrupt Men of GB ; What a GENERATION is ? Why were the Great Crowd Told they were going to Heaven in all the Old Books by Russell& Rutherford until 1935,why did many die because of Refusing Organ Transplants from 1967 until 1980 & Blood Fractions banned until 2000 such as Heoglobin!!… BABY in NAME & BABY in BRAINS!! Sorry about being BLUNT But I Have LOST Too MANY Friends to SUICIDE in this Organisation & ITS ABOUT TIME People woke up to the DAMAGING MIND CONTROL of these 7 American Men Mainly WHITE with the Token Black thrown in who is good at Jokes But the SHOW is being Run by :Stephen Letts, Anthony Morris,Geoffrey Jackson& David Splane
Matthew 23:15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.”
According to Jesus making converts is not enough to be approved.
Jesus made people free. Organised religion is against freedom. They create their own rules and judge you according to those rules.
That’s way people should do proper research before losing freedom for men made teachings. Making this single mistake can break you beloved family apart.
Organisations that use families as weapons are not normal.
@David . I Agree Totally with your comment!
BABY,
What proof do you have, or what proof convinced you, that the governing body are guided by Holy Spirit?
I do not perceive the fruit of the spirit in the WTBTS. The fruitage is listed in Galatians 5.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Pickled can’t post with his wife in the same room. He knows the WT is built on lies but still comments at meetings. How sad when people are trapped in the WT by family ties.
Lenny and Baby think God approves the WT. Why argue with them, it’s a waste of time. If the WT’s 2013 flip flop on the identity of the faithful and discreet slave does not open their eyes, it’s a lost cause.
The GB are NOT the faithful and discreet slave. Their claim to that title is a big lie. Even before 2013, the WT never was the faithful and discreet slave. IT’S ALWAYS BEEN A BIG LIE. You can’t build a house of truth on a foundation of lies.
The WT is not “the truth” as JWs like to call it. The WT is a false christ, an idol JWs worship, in place of God.
As the Bible says, they sacrifice in vain …
@ Lennylynx: Welcome to the site.I would have posted similar comments to yours a few years ago, but I would have been constantly looking over my shoulder debating with so called apostates…! As you must be, fear not you are amongst friends, try to keep an open mind and posting comments. Shalom.
Being a JW for so many years, I’d never have thought that I would be posting on here, however, I had too many doubts and started to have a long hard look at the Org. I suggest you do the same Lennylynx. Peace
I saw what the so called ‘truth’ did to my family.My brother became an Elder in the late 70’s. It cost him his health, house and family eventually suffering a mental breakdown.Where was the Org. When this was happening? NOWHERE! He finally got out 5 years ago, but it had taken it’s toll on him, he was a broken man, so think on Lennylynx! Take care…
@Pickled Brain. Hi P,B, enjoyed your exchanges with Lenny.
It was apparent that you had his interests in mind but it went
right over his head, he was aggressive right from the start.
( hardly the way to win others to your point of view, )
He had the nerve to criticise Charles Constante, saying he
“could not live up to the orgs, teachings, when he himself
was acting in direct opposition to the orgs, command by
spending 5 hours fraternising with “Apostates”.
Also he claimed ( in effect ) the org wouldn’t touch unethical *
investments, Obviously he can’t have heard of the millions
they made from Phillip Morris, the tobacco company
through a trust willed to them by a lady called Henrietta Riley,
( unethical only by wt, dogma * )
Tough getting through to them, they don’t trust any facts,
any sources of info, only the WT. Well and truly programmed !
very sad, very wicked. But you never know !
So many sad stories. The only way to end this cult’s (and all organized religions’) manipulation and swindling of people is to abolish (by legal means or by force) all religious organizations. Now I can already predict the reply to my “shocking” comment by some spineless milquetoast who put down their XBox for a second, because hurting someone’s feelings or offending someone’s “sensibilities” and possibly stirring up controversy is just so much more than he or she can stomach. This comment is not directed to them. It is directed to all the adults in the world who realize that life is not a video game, and that it takes a lot more than fancy talk to get things done in this world. I hope you are all receiving this message loud and clear. You can play nice all you like, but nothing gets better until organized religion goes away. I know the Utopians of this world just love to reward bullies, but that is not how I was raised, and it goes contrary to all my personal experience. It is akin to negotiating with terrorists. The more you give them, the more they demand, until they literally suck you dry. Time to wake up folks.
Variable,
As someone who has never owned an X Box (other games consoles are available) and is against forcing people to give up their religious beliefs at the point of a gun, I am going to try to put forward my opinion.
First of all, describing people who disagree with you as timid, uassertive and spineless is no way to win people over to your argument!
Now, you want to ban religions, either by political means or by force. Ok, what do you think would happen?
You decry the rewarding of bullies, while being one yourself! Forcing people to give up being an official member of a religion would be possible, but how many Thought Police would you hire to try to tackle the beliefs themselves?
The Communists tried destroying religion, it didn’t go too well, did it? We’re they able to destroy religious beliefs? No, they weren’t!
If we follow your argument, then the modern, scientific world we live in should never have happened! Why? Because religions were in position for the whole time our culture evolved and science benefited society!
I am for the taxing of religious bodies, and holding them to the same laws as secular societies and people. These goals can be achieved through political reform, and require no violence whatsoever.
I am for educating people of the absurdity of religions, through a good, secular education. This can be achieved with no violence whatsoever.
You can consider me spineless if you want to. It does not bother me in the slightest.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
I’ve been following the thread, and lenny whatever isn’t going to get it. He’s either new in or like my spouse doesn’t see anything negative with the organization. He’s using circular reasoning, piffle. I was in special full-time service myself and I know for a fact how many people in the organization have severe problems, financially, mentally and emotionally. I wouldn’t bother addressing him. He’s probably counting time and return visits… :/
@ Ted& Queen Elsa . Thank you both For your Kind Comments following my thread with Lenny.
Like you said Ted at the end of your comment ‘ You Never Know’ . I find those who are the most Ardent & Loyal JW who Stay around for hours Defending their CAUSE?? might just go away & over the Days,Months & Maybe years to come when Armageddon doesn’t come & they become EMOTIONALLY & PHYSICALLY DRAINED after giving everything to the ever changing WHIMS of these 7 Very FALLIBLE MEN then Common Sense will Dawn & the Light? Will Get Really Brighter!!
Take Care All who comment on this site who have GIVEN SO MUCH to this ORGANISATION in the PAST & MANY HAVE BEEN HURT BADLY!!But WE WILL SAVE SOME like We HAVE WOKEN UP !!
@ Innocent Son . I Empathise with you about your poor Families Suffering & your poor brothers Mental Breakdown. This is The Sad Consequences like I have seen the same results of following 7 Very Fallible Men who KEEP CHANGING Interpretation of Scripture.
IT IS GOOD to SEE The CARING, KIND & HUMOROUS Comments from US, So Called BITTER?? apostates?? I Find the REALLY UNKIND BITTER COMMENTS come From those JWs who DIG their HEELS in & Get so Ardently Defensive that they Don’t Practice the BIBLE Command to ‘LOVE your ENEMIES ??’
@ Picked brain.Thank you for your kind comments and words, I think it is us who have the ‘ Truth ‘ I also agree with what you said Charles Constante, I hope Lennylynx will think on as to if we really are… ‘ Mentally Diseased ‘
@ Simon Kestrel . Enjoyed your comment about me being Trapped in the same room as my Wife but couldn’t post on this site until she left otherwise she might report me to the Elders & in my earlier comment I said SINISTER ??? Your right ! Family Ties are Strong BUT as I have said on a post months ago I was baptised in 1979 at the age of 22 Before that I Had a Very good Education & was a Great Fan of John Le Carre Books about Double Gents & Spies , SO Governing Body . You TOOK the BEST YEARs of MY LIFE , But NOW I AM OPERATING on the Inside of The Organisation & Will SAVE as Many as I can by SOWING SEEDS of DOUBT into as many Brothers&Sisters by Being Kind but Dropping Subtle Comments with quotes from the Societies own Literature!! I ADMIT it is a DANGEROUS GAME I am Playing but I have seen signs from a few it is working!! It MAKES Me SMILE but I will call it ‘THEOCRATIC WARFARE ‘ in Reverse!!!
@ Simon Kestrel . In the middle of my last comment it should have said ‘Double Agents& Spies’ Not DOUBLE GENTS’ .!! But hang on I think ‘Double Gents’ sounds more Amusing??
Simon Kestrel.We are about the same age and I was baptized t 19 years old. Not raised a JW but I had good parents who gave me logical thinking ability.So itook that with me when I became a JW and always thought the WT was extreme but like most went along with it hoping everything would become clear? Well, after 20 years it never did and I feel like you the WT took my best years however we have to move on. When I was about 42 I made my Big break and have never looked back despite my Wife being a staunch JW and Pioneer to this day. I have so may other interest now and I occupy my time with sports, music, hiking ne w friends, and just enjoying life that the WT tried to take from all of us for their own selfish purposes. It will take you time and sometimes years to be completely free of the indoctrination. Even now almost 20 years later I still deal with some issues from being a JW but it is minimal and now I cannot believe I ever fell for the crap they teach and scare you with.You will progress and see that the WT story cannot be true the way they present it. They are not a humble Organization. Keep enjoying life, have fun, do not let them take your reaming years.
I always believed in God and a creator. To me it is only common sense and I still do. I believed in God LONG before I became a jw. DO not accept their nonsense that they have a monopoly on God and that you need them to know God or to have a good happy life.
The JW broadcasts always creep me out. Haven’t been able to watch them from the beginning.
I found out all of the stuff about WT a few weeks ago (the UN scandal, lying, manipulation) and was handling it rather well. It’s really hit me today what it all means, makes me angry and sick at the same time. I feel really lost.
@ Sir R. WE Have ALL FELT like you ‘Angry& Lost’ . It takes time & Sometimes a LONG TIME to HEAL!
BUT USE YOUR Time now with the SAME ENERGY & ZEAL to SAVE OTHERS!!! It is so Easy to Sink into Depression after FEELING DUPED by these ‘7 AMERICAN CONMEN’ ! Most WACKY RELIGIONS come out of America…Scientology,Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses( Even now it HURTS ME to Print & Say that) , Seven Day Adventist,Etc, Etc
I’ve had severe depression for around 8 years now. The doubts ive had over the past years were shown to be right once I had the guts to actually research online a month ago, and I actually felt a lot better than before. But today I kind of realised that what I do with my life and the morals I have are all up to me now, it’s my choice what to do. It’s pretty terrifying.
@Sir R. It can be TERRIFYING as you say , BUT you are FREE from the CONSTANT CONFUSION of Ever Changing Doctrine which IF IT CAN Change 2,3,4,5 times ,Whose to say it can’t change 7,8,9 times because of the MISAPPLICATION on Prov4 v18.
You say you have had Depression for 8 years which the majority of JWs have because DEEP DOWN Most have Little Lingering Doubts like ‘ CAN A GENERATION?? REALLY be a 101 YEARS LONG????’
The Healing Process depends on many factors like Whether you were BORN IN, or How many FAMILY Members are still in& close friends are in the ORG, etc,etc
I wish you well for the future , like most of us here who have gone through this PAINFUL Deprogramming Process!
Each Individual is Different & what works for one might not work for another& vice versa. Take care & get professional help if needed or just talking on a website like this can be therapeutic but Don’t BOTTLE it Up. We all need to feel Appreciated & Understood & Cedars(Lloyd) has produced this website which is Cathartic for many !!
No, they were delivered to our shores a few hundred years ago! Part NatHere ive American and proud of it!
Hang in there..we are here for you..I am just coming out of my “bitter” stage it has been 2.5 yrs..I have no family or friends left… but at least I also have no guilt, judgement or fear following me around!
You have a friend in me!
Hello Sir R, I awoke about a year ago but have been clinging on until my wife too woke up. I was hesitating a little bit. However after this broadcast, the bullets the witnesses want to shoot at me are bouncing off. We stopped going to meetings a few months ago and I resigned as a MS recently. They are after us now. Elders phoning, elders wives coming by to try to talk to my wife. I was sickened and disgusted when I found out the origins and what this religion was really all about. Hang in there bud. We’re all here for you and your not alone. No one understands the Jw life like a ex jw.
Peace to you.
John Z
Sir R, listen to the latest jwpodcast. It was meant for you. Lloyd just posted it yesterday and it’s wonderful as usual but better than ever!!!
“He had the nerve to criticise Charles Constante, saying he “could not live up to the orgs, teachings, when he himself was acting in direct opposition to the orgs, command by spending 5 hours fraternising with “Apostates”.”
Ted, I don’t think Lenny was criticising me personally but Jerry Bergman, the doctor in one of the links I posted. Interestingly, he did say that he “stumbled across this website whilst trying to get on JW.org.”. I personally think there is no such thing as ‘accidents’, so maybe his unconscious was trying to lead him to the “The Facts” as opposed to “The Truth”.
Have you all seen the latest talk by Mark Sanderson related to giving. It is delivered under the them of opening your hand to give to needy brothers and sisters, but it seems awfully coincidental that it would follow a talk about giving to the WTS. At one point he says that Jehovah commands us to open our hand and give. I was surprised they allowed this talk to happen, if even for the sake of not wanting to appear desperate.
@Finn, I listened to it. It is telling in how JW’s treat people who are suffering. He tells about 20 years ago when he was serving at the branch in Canada there was a young brother who was working in the printery and Sanderson said that the young brother was “in” sick for a very long period of time and and then a member of the branch committee took over a big bag of groceries and other good things and left it outside the brother’s door.”
What is interesting is why didn’t that brother from the branch committee even go inside to talk to the brother? Wasn’t he home? If not was he out and about? If he was out and about why wasn’t he working in the printery then? Something about that story doesn’t add up. Then he goes on to say that that bag of groceries uplifted him so much that he told all the Bethel family about it. It really fails to impress me about what was so remarkable about that story. Isn’t that what they should have done right away instead of waiting such a long time? After all, Sanderson said that he was “in” sick for a very long period of time before that brother brought over the bag of groceries. That story doesn’t make any sense to me. Then Sanderson goes on to say that 20 years ago there was a flood in the Winnipeg area and the Bethel family came up with $10,000 in a very short period of time to donate towards the relief efforts. My question is how in the world did the Bethel family come up with that much money? Do they have bank accounts? I thought they were paid like $28 a month to live on and that is to cover the bare necessities. That story leaves a lot of questions in my mind as well.
If a Witness was open-handed and being generous with their brothers and sisters at the Kingdom Hall and helping them when they see that they are in need, those very same brothers and sisters will turn their back on that very generous brother or sister as soon as they even suspect that the generous one might be slipping out of the truth and turning apostate. They will turn their back on them immediately and think that they are Satanic rather than “helping” them come back into what they think is the truth. They are only concerned about themselves making it through Armageddon and wouldn’t touch or help what they think is the “unclean” thing (the generous “apostate”) with a ten foot pole. The “love” is completely conditional on the part of almost every single Witness when it comes to saving themselves through Armageddon. One might show unconditional love for the “brotherhood” in being generous but it isn’t going to be reciprocated when the tables are turned.
In the Bible, when Paul was going around collecting donations from the congregations, it was to help the poor widows and children. It wasn’t to enrich the church buildings and Paul. Paul said at 2 Cor. 10: 9 that he was never a burden to the congregations and in 2 Cor. 10: 13, he said that there would be false apostles, deceitful workers transforming themselves into apostles of Christ because even Satan keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. In 2 Cor. 10: 20, he said “In fact, you put up with whoever enslaves you, whoever devours what you have, whoever grabs what you have, whoever exalts himself over you, whoever strikes you in the face.”
There is a lot of truth in those scriptures. No matter what the Society asks of the Witnesses, they put up with it and all the Society has to do is exalt themselves over the congregation and the rank and file will put up with it, even when they are being struck in the face with the real truth.
Thanks for your reply Anonymous. I don’t know…I listened to it as well and realize they were making the point of giving freely to others, but I think in a roundabout way it was like an exclamation point on the previous broadcast encouraging listeners to give to the WTS. They couldn’t exactly say “Jehovah commands you to give” in the last broadcast, but they were able to say it in this one and I’m sure many JWs will put 2+2 together.
When I was at Bethel some years ago in Patterson, the stipend was $90 a month. Many bethelites have money coming in from relatives. I knew of a pair of brothers that drove a BMW and vacationed at their personal family island in the Turks and Caicos.
It is also very telling that in all Paul letters never mention a governing body. On jw broadcast it became more important then Jesus. Their logic to justify the GB concept is that the apostle meet few times therefore there was a GB. But why something so important wasn’t written clearly. Was Paul unable to find the correct words? If I meet with three other persons few times does it mean that we have created a governing body? It is strange that their reasoning is sharp to criticise other religions but it is very weak to criticise their own non sense. A real Christian (and any other normal person) doesn’t need another person for approval. God’s approves. We are all the same.
Please have a look at this video
http://tv.jw.org/#video/VODOurActivities/pub-jwbrd_201505_8_VIDEO
So the great judgement day is around the corner and they are focused in creating complex 3d renderings of construction projects.
Obviously they cannot buy second hand properties to save money and give to the poor as Jesus taught people. That’s is a waste of money! No?
Jehovah requires everything to be slick and rigorously new.
Can you imagine Jesus having that kind of attitude? This is common american materialistic attitude.
According to them this is the Christian pattern. I don’t think we need any more words to understand how flawed that is.
I look at it like the saying that if a person repeats the same lie, 1,000 times, it becomes true. I see the reason the Society is concentrating on more and more new Kingdom Halls is to give the impression to “worldly” people that the Witnesses are a mainstream religion and no different than any other religion and therefore a religion that more and more people will see as “normal” like a Lutheran, Catholic or Methodist or any other “acceptable” religion to belong to. I feel they are competing with other churches for normalcy. If people see Kingdom Halls on every street corner, the Witnesses and “worldly” people will look at it as a normal and acceptable form of worship and be more inclined to listen and get interested because it won’t be such a joke anymore to people.
In the United States, almost every situation comedy for years has had skits of JW’s played because they are a joke to people here and looked at as kind of crazy but as “really, really good” people at the same time.
Generally people have the impression that JW’s live like the Amish in that they are so “pure” and clean and almost perfect in every way and so the reason most people don’t listen and join up is because they think that they aren’t “good” enough. People don’t laugh at the Amish though. The Society wants the JW religion to be as acceptable as any other religion.
My husband complains a lot that the Society drums into kids that they should be “proud” to be a JW. That has always irked him so much. I know what they are saying is that kids should not feel ashamed to be a JW but what it does is to make JW’s proud or arrogant instead. I think most kids at school actually do feel “ashamed” if they want to fit in. The other kids that aren’t ashamed think they really are better than all the rest of the kids and they will never feel ashamed of being a JW and think that they can convert their classmates and openly preach but those that want to fit in, are introverted and quiet about their religion.
Feeling proud to be a JW works for the Society. Most JW’s do think that only their religion is so hard to follow that they feel they are heads and tails above the average person in the “world”. They feel that the average person that doesn’t join up just can’t live up to the very high standards as Lennylynx has been led to believe, like they think they do and the rest of the world can’t live up to those high standards.
We were probably all there with that kind of thinking when we believed. We also thought like that, that we were just such a “classy” set of people and we thought we were better than the average person walking around in our suits and dresses on the street too. That is the way we were brain washed into thinking which is a cult tactic that works on all cults, making them think that only they can live up to such high standards. That kind of brainwashing works for them and it works for the JW’s as well. JW’s are supposed to be humble but they are so proud to be humble that they are proud. In the end, they are being played for fools and don’t even know it. It is just like the story of the Emperor that parades down the street naked.
The Society places so much emphasis on new buildings because they think that the world and current JW’s will think the JW’s are really prospering and growing, which makes them proud, thinking that it’s only a matter of time and everyone will be flocking in. I don’t think JW’s really want armageddon so much as they want to be proud of their religion and not feel like a joke to anyone anymore.
I think that when people fall out of the “truth” the ones that are left feel like the ones that left, now that they are now just “too good” to be JW anymore. I remember always feeling a little jealous of those who stopped going. I was jealous because they didn’t have to go in service anymore and to meetings and assemblies etc. but feeling like I was really sacrificing myself because even though I’d like to have stopped going to meetings and service too, I was punishing myself in staying in and hopefully I’d make it through Armageddon for doing all that stuff that I hated having to do.
I remember thinking to myself about those who stopped going “they just think they are too good for it now.” So, in a way, I was always feeling a little ashamed of my religion because JW’s are a joke to the “world” but then feeling proud too because I thought that we were just so much more “moral” than people on the outside. It was both feelings for me, feeling proud and ashamed too.
Witnesses are proud of the way they stand out from the general public in their morals and the way they dress but Witnesses can be picked out in a crowd because of the way they dress (when they have their suits and dresses on) but what that does to the general public is to give off the impression that they are like the Amish (being overly righteous). Most people don’t really look up to people dressed like that. Most people will look at those Witnesses as proud and arrogant. That is the impression that their dress and manner gives off to the public. And in reality, the way the dress and act in public is self-righteous. How the public sees them is right. They are self-righteous and arrogant. They only “act” humble”. It’s just a veneer.
I didn’t mean to imply that the Amish are overly righteous. I think the Amish are very nice and humble, unlike Witnesses.
Anonymous–did you see the most recent whiteboard video about preparing for the convention–they flashed the family in Hawaiian shirts after the convention, apparently going to eat or something, but then showed them “properly” dressed in suits, dresses and badges. No relaxing allowed!
In 1975 Fred Franz used the Gilead graduation talk to argue against the idea of a governing body. He didn’t have much advice for the graduates, he was more focused on promoting his personal agenda. That talk is on youtube.
His politicized talk is more evidence that WT’s claim to the title of faithful and discreet slave was never true to begin with. It sounded good from 1927 to 2009, when WT taught that the anointed were the FDS. But when you start in 1881 and compare all the flip flops on that core teaching, it’s clearly ridiculous. A video of that is on youtube too.
Once you realize how false the WT claim to the title of “faithful and discreet slave” really is, you also realize their claim to have authority from God is without basis.
They’re just men who want to preach all the time, without any burden of secular employment.
The pattern is always the same. They come up with an idea and then they stick a scripture to it.
They can come up with 300 teachings and the JW will follow them. Their mind is a blank canvas.
Can you imagine a few years ago standing up in a kingdom hall and saying that Jesus refers to two overlapping generations? It is plainly crazy!
Although it is crazy and makes Jesus a liar they still support it.
This is the power of brainwashing and giving up individuality thinking that another person has the key for salvation.
RE: Overlapping Generations: Rather than admit that its 1914 cornerstone date is wrong, or admit that the 1914 date and Matthew 24:34 are unrelated, the Governing Body came up with a new explanation of the 1914 generation: “Jesus evidently meant that the lives of the anointed ones who were on hand when the sign began to be evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of the other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation.” — Watchtower 2010 June 15 p.5.
However, less than 22 years before the overlapping generations explanation was revealed, the Governing Body said this: “Might it be, though, that the sign could occur over the span of many human generations? No. The sign is to occur during one particular generation. The same generation that witnessed the beginning of the sign will also witness its climax.” — Watchtower 1988 October 15 p.4. Once again, the passage of time required that old truth be replaced with new truth. “One particular generation” had become two or more overlapping generations.
The Bible is clear
Deuteronomy 18:21-22
21 [a]You may say in your heart, ‘How will we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’ 22 When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.
The fact that they keep changing the teachings is the proof that they are speaking presumptuously. Will they learn? No
The Watchtower’s cornerstone 1914 date is achieved by combining various unrelated scriptures with imaginative day-for-a-year mathematical speculation.
Because so many Watch Tower doctrines, teachings and prophesies revolve around the 1914 date, it is now carved in stone and cannot be changed. As a result, the year 1914 has become solidified in the minds of Jehovah’s Witnesses as the most important date in all human history.
The Governing Body will continue to say whatever is necessary, no matter how asinine, in an attempt to prop up their obviously-wrong 1914 doctrine.
I truly believe that most witnesses just go to the meetings to be with their friends (social club) and turn off their mental faculties when the meeting starts and turn them back on once the meeting is finished.
Robotic comments, robotic talks and robotic presentations from the platform. Doesn’t really matter what is said from the platform cause no one is really listening.
Rob, I agree 100%. They go to be with their friends and they go in service to be with the others. That is the only fun thing about being a witness. At least you feel like you are part of a group, even if you don’t realize all the group “love” is conditional.
I was looking over the July 2015 study Watchtower online and it is stressing having nice Kingdom Halls and supporting them etc. and not being too casual at the Hall etc. but I think they really miss the idea of what the “church” is and that is the people. As long as the group like each other, it really doesn’t matter in what kind of surroundings they meet. If they get together for a picnic at a park, they will enjoy each others’ company just as much if they meet in a really nice building. It’s not the building that is the “house” of God. It’s the people. But the Society puts all the emphasis on the building and not the real “house” of God.
All the teachings of their leaders regarding the end have proven false. Therefore they are trying to save what they can. They are trying to make the religion more attractive by producing multimedia content, constructing nice kingdom halls.
But all of this cannot hide and make the pain that they have caused to many people disappear. They have judged people for not believing their interpretations. They have demolished the reputation and self esteem of many people. And today many people are prevented to see their brothers, sisters, mothers just for not agreeing with them.
But I believe many JW are starting to see their true face. We live in the information age. People will know that they have taught many end dates based on fantasy. They will understand that on jw tv they do not present reality but a manufactured version of reality.
@Simon Kestrel . I have listened to that talk by Fred Franz to the Gilead Graduates in the Early 1970s & Freddy was arguing against a GB because all the power & Doctrinal Decisions up until 1971 had been in the hands of the President,First Russell , then Rutherfords, then Knorr. Franz Knew there ARE NO GREEK WORDS for Governing Body !! The Apostle Paul went up to Jerusalem AFTER 13 Years on Missionary Work to SORT OUT the DOCTRINAL MESS of the Judaisers in Jerusalem trying to impose Circumcision on the Christian Congregation . As soon as it was sorted Paul Disappeared from Jerusalem on other Missionary Tours ! THERE WAS NO Centralised GB Franz Argued against a Governing Body & said it Was HOLY SPIRIT that was Guiding Individuals & Christians were no longer under Mosaic Law with a Centralised HQ whether Jerusalem,Bethel at Brooklyn or Warwick!!
So Yes Simon I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY with your Comments!! The Rank & File JW are being CONNED BIG TIME!!
@Rob . I Totally Agree with you that the meetings are full of Robotic Comments, Robotic Talks; & Robotic Presentations!!
I was counselled recently on bringing RESEARCH from OLDER Watchtower Publications into my Answers at the Meetings because it might Stumble the Brothers in seeing the Inconsistencies & Changes in our Publications!!!! IRONIC to be counselled for using Older Watchtower Publications . 1984 by George Orwell Anyone .
I Just Smiled at the Elder & said ‘Thank you for your Concern & I told him he is such an Encouraging Elder & I Value his views highly , BUT I am only a publisher & Will try my best!!
He Beamed with Self Satisfaction!! I just ignored him & still Subtly bring in Older Publications & inconsistencies. But I think when you Flatter an Elder they find it hard to counsel you Again !! It’s about Psychological Warfare & I am in for the Long Haul !!
@ScotWm. I answered up your point at Watchtower last week about Faithful Discreet Slave at Page 143 para. 1 of Proclaimers Book it states Russell for 30 Years until 1927 ,YES 30 YEARS was regarded as F&D Slave ; Then I said from 1927 until 2013 the SLAVE was the 144000 Anointed; Then in 2013 CHANGED AGAIN to 7 Members of the GB. I then said ‘IT IS SO WONDERFUL HOW The LIGHT gets LIGHTER & LIGHTER ‘ …. You could hear a Pin Drop as Brothers&Sisters are Computing in their Brains how Illogical all this is . I had one sister who had been BLANKING me for months because she was suspicious of my motives,this Sunday grab my arm & said ‘I Really Enjoy your Research & your Answers’!!!
I think She is Waking Up to the Truth about the Truth. Others over the Last Year who have Completely ignored me are Smiling… Only a Few But if I can SAVE a FEW my Plan is Working!!
7 LOUSY AMERICAN MEN have Wasted over 30 years of my Life by Crafty Manipulation of Scripture,so my turn now to USE THEIR OWN LITERATURE Against them. We all do it in our own way !! Wishing you all well in breaking down barriers!!
@David. Forgot to say I Enjoyed your Last 3 comments. You show good insight . I agree the public are Seeing the TRUE FACE of the GB especially with TV.JW.Org & last One by Stephen Letts Begging for Money . Old JW diehards might try to ignore the Stupidity of it all, But Any NEW PERSON will see right through the HYPROCISY of it all& like any person buying a NEW CAR, Washing Machine,New House etc People Research THOROUGHLY these Material Things at a click of a button… They can Now do the same with the HISTORY of the JW Organisation & New Recruits will dry up once Research is done… That’s why URGENCY is needed to BAPTISE 11,12,13,14 year old to keep numbers increasing & look good in the figures in the yearbook!!
RE: Pastor Russell’s Faithful Discreet Slave status: The Governing Body has now thrown him under the bus. Until further notice, Pastor Russell has lost his previous stature of being part of the slave class:
“Were the Bible Students in the years that lead up to 1914 the appointed channel through which Christ would feed his sheep? No. They were still in the growing season, and the arrangement for a channel to provide spiritual food was taking shape. The time had not yet come for the weed-like imitation Christians to be separated from the true Christian wheat.” (Watchtower July 15, 2013 study edition p.19)
On the bright side, Pastor Russell does receive honorable mention for establishing the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society:
“During the decades leading up to 1914, C. T. Russell and his close associates did a work like that of John the Baptizer. That vital work involved restoring Bible truths. The Bible Students taught the true meaning of Christ’s ransom sacrifice, exposed the hellfire lie, and proclaimed the coming end of the Gentile Times.” (Watchtower July 15, 2013 study edition p.11, p 6).
Having the Governing Body strip Pastor Russell of his former faithful slave status is the equivalent of having the Catholic Church say that Saint Peter wasn’t really the first pope.
@ Anonymous & Finn . Your earlier comments were both ASTUTE on Mark Sanderson follow up morning worship about Giving Generously SO SOON after Stephen LETTS BEGGING GB Monthly Broadcast…. Subtle or Maybe not so subtle Propaganda to those of us can see the Subliminal Messages being given out !! GIVE the GB All Your MONEY & PROPERTY & Jehovah will give you a HANDFUL of FLAX SEED??? OH YEAH !!! Give me my cheque Book & write a BLANK Cheque to the GB with my signature on it !!! Can the Average JW Fall for this ??? Some Will !! Very Very Sad!
Looks like Lenny has gone back to sleep, oh, well, we did try!
Yawn, yawn, Zzzzz ….
Maybe he’ll dream a dream, and see an enormous image, a large black pyramid, engraved with the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, located in Rosemount United Cemetery, Allegheny, Pennsylvania.
It’s a good place to start.
Pickled Brain
– Using their own literature to discredit –
How about reading about Passover in the ‘Insight’ book, para 3. What day did Jesus celebrate the evening meal with his disciples?
What day did you celebrate it on this year?
Research needed …
It is interesting to note that this is the first year ever that Nisan 1st fell on the Spring equinox, March 20th, marked by a solar eclipse, so that everyone could work it out for themselves when Nisan 14 would fall. Remember it started on the evening of the 13th, becoming the 14th at sundown, and ended on the evening of 14th at sundown.
You would think the ‘anointed of Jehovah’ would get this day right, wouldn’t you?
@Bad Penny. Nice Comment & yes we did Try with Lenny , but I do have high hopes for him because for someone to come onto this site & then STAY for a few Hours Discussing with us WICKED APOSTATES??!! I think he Protests tooooo Much & he won’t forget the points raised & Maybe,Just One Day as the system dragssss on the little doubts start to surface!!! & I will have a look at your point on the Passover in the Insight book .
@ScotWm. Yes I have Noticed how that the GB Have Downgraded Russell in that July 2013 WT .Russell is no longer part of the F&D Slave & very craftily with one Penstroke because the GB changed the start of the F&D Slave as no longer in 33 c.e BUT in 1919.ALSO interestingly the GB in that WT said all the APOSTLES were no longer part of the F&D Slave BUT the Apostles were still part of a Governing Body, Even though there is NO GREEK Terminology for The Words ‘Governing Body ‘ in the New Testament. What the MISTAKE the present GB Make the more you Fiddle about with Interpretations of Parables which weren’t meant to be taken literally the more People will think if the GB can CHANGE (Light getting Lighter???) an interpretation 2,3,4 times whose to say this time it is Right & it won’t change 5,6,7 times!!
JEHOVAH & The Bible DOESNT CHANGE,But THE GB CONSTANTLY CHANGING their Interpretations. This SHOWS THEY Are JUST GUESSING when they now say the DUBIOUS Words ‘The EVIDENCE SHOWS ‘ …. NOT ‘Holy Spirit’ shows this like they used to say in Russell’s time & Rutherfords time when they wrote Over 25 books with CONSTANTLY CHANGING of DOCTRINE & it’s Interpetation!!
HONESTLY can ANY JW who Does Proper Research in the WHOLE of the Dubious History of the PAGAN Origins of this Organisation believe JEHOVAH would be HAVING A LAUGH at this CONFUSION HE is Causing!! It is ALL UTTER DRIVEL the GB are Publishing & the More they Change the More RIDICULOUS they Look. I feel like SINGING ‘HAPPY ‘ by Pharrell Williams at seeing the INSANE FOOLS they are making of themselves!!!!
The Society made nearly 1 BILLION dollars in their recent selling of their prime real estate property in Brooklyn. I guess between the child molestation lawsuits, being found in contempt for not turning over their database of known child molesters, and new building projects like the 1 million square foot Walkill HQ and Kingdom Halls in the US, is starting to take a toll financially. They will have to dip into their savings (if there are any) and off-shore accounts (there are plenty).
The new kingdom hall renovations are just another “pork barrel” project anyway. I mean seriously…in the video Lloyd posted on the subject, one speaker (COUGH brown-noser COUGH) noted, “meeting attendance is down” and they attribute this to “overcrowding of congregations” in the pre-existing Kingdom Halls. How about people are fed up of over 100 years of this system and no Armageddon in sight and have better things to do…like go to college (like myself), find a career and hopefully one day become a provider for a family?
Who knew when you let your Yes mean Yes at your baptismal dedication (most like me did so as a pressured kid (at 14) and had no idea what I was getting into at the time)…that this oath included a vow of (Governing Body opinionated) Poverty?
Not to mention all of the examples of overcrowding that they used were in southern California, Texas, and Florida… Gee I wonder what’s causing that influx..? (COUGH…immigrants from Mexico…COUGH)
As an inactive JW… I started awakening to the BS after they stopped the weekly Bible study and merged it with the mid-week meeting. So instead of three meetings during the week, there were only two. This gave me more time to think and I must say, I’m glad I did.
After the July 15, 2013 Watchtower, with the “new light” telling us that (1) we were not in the “last days” but in the “pangs of distress” which would be for an “unknown length”. Then at the end you have a “pregnant pause” during which the “remnant of the 144,000 would be “taken up in the air” (COUGH rapture Cough) before the real start of Armageddon. Very few of the friends caught this because the questions for that article had nothing to do with the time line and new light…
Long story short…this has always been a cult…they never knew what they were doing ( Ray Franz’s book “in search of Christian Freedom” highlights this) and the hall is filled with smiling “sheeple” who would gladly have swallowed down Jim Jones’ Cool Aid at Jonestown (Walkill)
The real question for active JW’s to consider is “would you prefer Grape or Cherry flavor”?
@ScotWm, in that July 2013 Watchtower simplified edition it said that the wheat class are the 144,000 so it was saying then that Russell wasn’t even part of the 144,000. That would make all of those early Bible Students also not of the 144,000. I looked it up and saw that the “wheat” are the 144,000 in other places besides that Watchtower but most Witnesses think when the Society is talking about separating the wheat from the weeds that it’s the same as separating the sheep from the goats but it’s two different classes they are talking about but the Society doesn’t make the distinction very often at all.
So, the Society did throw Russell under the buss along with all the other supposed “remnant” at that time so then as long as the light keeps getting brighter and brighter, when did they actually “get it right?” As long as the Society says that we can’t use older literature, then they should also not refer back to older literature but they still do when it’s convenient to imply that they got it right way back when.
How could anybody believe them when they say that Jesus and Jehovah chose the Watchtower in 1919 if they were weeds? How could a thinking person not put that together that it’s all a pile of poo?
@Anonymous. I Enjoy all your comments. You REALLY put a lot of thought & Analysis into your posts . Yes you are SO RIGHT about the Difference between the GB different Interpretations of ‘Wheat&weed’ parable & the’sheep&goats’ .The GB are saying NOW that the Sheepie& Goatie parable is future after the Great Tribulation Starts whereas the Wheat&weed parable is happening at the moment!!
Welcome to the EVER CRAZY CHANGING WORLD of the Governing Body!!!!
The Governing Body is now saying that the spirit-anointed, faithful slave class was never appointed over all the Master’s belongings.
However, the self-appointed Governing Body, which claims to be the faithful slave class, has assured us that they will indeed be appointed over all the Master’s belongings! Here is the official prophesy:
“When Jesus comes for judgment during the great tribulation, he will find that the faithful slave has been loyally dispensing timely spiritual food to the domestics. Jesus will then delight in making the second appointment — over all his belongings.” (Watchtower July 15, 2013 study edition p.25 par.18).
Unless “loyally dispensing timely spiritual food to the domestics” includes the Governing Body’s record of continually-changing interpretations of bible parables, incorrectly predicting many future prophetic dates and constantly lying about Watchtower history, this Watchtower prophesy will, as always, prove to be false.
They threw Russell and “his associates” under the bus to make room for all of these new members of the 144,000 in heaven. Considering that since 2003 to 2013 (year-books) there has been an increase of over 5,000 people to the 144,000, an average of +500 a year. In 2014 there was an increase of over 1,000 people, just for that year alone.
The society cannot justify this increase, due to their logic and belief. That is to say “the closer we get to Armageddon, the fewer the number of the 144,000 will be”. With the numbers simply not adding up, they had to make “room” for these people and that involved making Russel and his associates part of a new class, the “John the Baptizer” class (W07/15/2013 “a messenger “clears up a way” page 10-11) which did not have a heavenly hope, but was merely a messenger of those to come (ergo the vacancy sign in heaven lit up again).
Sadly for the Governing Body, this logic is like shoving a square peg into a round hole.
RE: Pastor Russell’s demotion and the ever-increasing 144 thousand class: The Watchtower Society has created a caste system, but each of the various levels of importance is called a “class.” There are so many of these imaginary classes that I can’t remember all of them. There is a Jeremiah class, an Ezekiel class a John class, a Jonadab class, an earthly class, a heavenly class a faithful slave class and on and on it goes.
Pastor Russell and his associates have not been dropped from the ever-expanding 144 thousand class, they have only been demoted one level from the faithful slave class back to the 144 thousand class. And don’t forget that most of the latest wave of memorial partakers are mentally ill:
“A number of factors – including past religious beliefs or even mental or emotional imbalance – might cause some to assume mistakenly that they have the heavenly calling. We thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know. The Governing Body does not keep a list of all partakers, for it does not maintain a global network of anointed ones.” (August 15 Watchtower study edition, page 22.)
As the heavenly class continues to expand, it does not appear that it will put a strain on the 144 thousand heavenly class member threshold. The numbers can always be manipulated and claims can be made that many of the memorial partakers are totally nuts.
It is obvious that the Governing Body class needs to distance itself from all other memorial partakers. We can only imagine what would happen if a group of mentally and emotionally unbalanced persons were allowed to dream up bizarre scriptural fantasies and have them printed in Watchtower magazines and books. Some of these crazies might actually become televangelists and appear in Watchtower videos.
A great video on my plastic microphone on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=11O4Z8hn1mM
Thank you Anonymous excellent video! should be number one!!
Lett said “More. Money going out than coming in” giving the
impression they were overspending on “Kingdom Interests”
This I can’t believe ! when it comes to money this is the one
area where they are “discreet”, no way would they over budget.
If there is a shortfall it’s likely due to unexpected developments
such as a dramatic fall in literature revenue and voluntary
contributions, and hush money payments to sexual victims etc.
As they are so crafty and cautious in financial matters it’s more
than probable that they are pre-empting these developments
and taking advanced action to offset them.
“All churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to
me to be no other than human inventions. Set up to terrify and
enslave mankind and to monopolise power and PROFIT”.
( Thomas Paine, “The Age of Reason”. )
@Ted
I find it hard to believe they are in a position where they have a shortfall–at present. They are not fools in financial matters. Was the word “shortfall” mentioned in the broadcast? I don’t remember that. I don’t think they are out of money, or near running out of money. What he said, if I remember correctly and I will paraphrase: After considering what they are planning, they will have more money going out than coming in. If those plans are brought to fruition and the current donation level doesn’t increase, *then* there would be a shortfall. Of course, the easy answer to that is: cancel your plans.
@Finn Sawyer
Interesting point – my feeling is that this is dealing with an unexpected problem, largely of their own making. Lett said that the letter to the congregations was misunderstood, and inferred (don’t recall him saying this) that this has resulted in a significant drop off in contributions. This would make sense – they are the F&D Slave after all is said and done – so they would have accurately planned their outgoings! It would be a drop off in contributions that was unexpected. They will be planning WELL AHEAD and as you say there can be no immediate cash flow problem.
So perhaps their CLEVER PLAN to put everyone ON THE HOOK was met with real resistance and they are dressing it up by saying they were misunderstood. Perhaps people are revealing their unease about loosing their paid-for KHs by reducing their contributions, or failing to increase them as requested.
These grim JW broadcasts are completely de-mystifying the GB – and sites like this providing a haven for the disillusioned and confused to find clarity and peace. And a quicker recovery when they leave.
SwimmingWild
Another thing that I thought was so funny about Lett’s speech is when he said that a person could attend the meetings for 20 years and if they didn’t put a donation in the contribution box that nobody would know. Jehovah would know but the brothers wouldn’t know. I can see paying for the water and electricity and nothing else since the Society owns all the Kingdom Halls.
When you rent, it’s the landlord who is responsible for the upkeep of the outside of the building and to fix anything that breaks etc. Why should the brothers be made to pay for the building and all the upkeep and then when the hall is sold, the money for the sale goes to the Society?
Why should I pay rent when I own my house? If the money is going for Kingdom Halls in foreign lands, then let us see the pictures of all the halls and where they are located and how much they cost etc. If the Society is going to be buying up expensive motels and condos, let us see how much they pay and why are they buying them. If they are selling their buildings in New York or anywhere else in the world, let us know what they are getting for those buildings. None of those buildings would have been renovated if it hadn’t been for the free labor from all those who donated their time and money to fix up those buildings. All those buildings are worth millions and millions of dollars more than when they were bought because of all the free labor from Bethelites to fix them up. Why aren’t the Bethelites reimbursed for all their hard work? They are made to believe it’s for the worldwide work but it’s to line the pockets of the Society instead with free labor. They were being used and made fools of and not by God either.
It’s money the rank and file are putting in the contribution box and it isn’t “Jehovah’s” money. It’s money that the rank and file donated and the Governing Body needs to answer to them for where it goes. Saying it’s “Jehovah’s” money is saying that they only need to answer to Him where it’s going like it belonged go God in the first place but that money didn’t just come from God. Those people earned that money with hard work and they went without, to put that money in the contribution box and they deserve to know what the Society is doing with it.
Just making a blanket statement that there’s more money going out than what’s coming in, is all they offer in explanation and nobody is even allowed to ask where the money is going. If they even ask, they will be looked at as going “apostate” and not trusting in “God’s mouthpiece” and probably shunned.
People are foolish if they start projects that they can’t complete unless they have the funds first. That is the way it goes for a foolish person. A wise person saves up the money first and then starts the project or buys the product. A wise person doesn’t take out a loan for a house they can’t afford.
@ Finn Sawyer, Thanks Finn, after listening again to
Lett’s broadcast I realised its as you point out,
there would be a shortfall between the cost of FUTURE
plans and PRESENT donations.
The guilt tripping was even more evident and sickly the
second time of listening. — “We don’t want to be
categorised with other organisations that coerce their
supporters to donate. You could attend the Kingdom
for 20 years and never donate, no one would know
( But JHVH would ” ! ).
They are so transparent, once the spell is broken.
anonymous – like the video.
Right on sister!
On your last comment, yes, it is foolishness to start to build your tower without having the funds to complete it.
This is a scriptural principle of course.
It just shows how the GB are really more in line with the foolish virgins, as opposed to the discreet.
They are only discreet in their own eyes.
A little trust would not go astray. Allow the congregations to hold the property titles in their own name. They worked hard to establish those properties.It seems trust is lacking in ones fellow man or women. Members in a congregation manage their finances well. They drive older cars for one thing, what brand of cars to the governing body drive? The cars parked at Warrick what brand are they. It seems the life style, the image is more important than living within ones means. Holding all the titles of all the properties, under different umbrellas is that showing trust. To those who paid for them.
This is from Wikipedia under Ponzi scheme:
A pyramid scheme is a form of fraud similar in some ways to a Ponzi scheme, relying as it does on a mistaken belief in a nonexistent financial reality, including the hope of an extremely high rate of return. However, several characteristics distinguish these schemes from Ponzi schemes:[1]
In a Ponzi scheme, the schemer acts as a “hub” for the victims, interacting with all of them directly. In a pyramid scheme, those who recruit additional participants benefit directly. (In fact, failure to recruit typically means no investment return.)
A Ponzi scheme claims to rely on some esoteric investment approach and often attracts well-to-do investors, whereas pyramid schemes explicitly claim that new money will be the source of payout for the initial investments.
A pyramid scheme typically collapses much faster because it requires exponential increases in participants to sustain it. By contrast, Ponzi schemes can survive simply by persuading most existing participants to reinvest their money, with a relatively small number of new participants.
An economic bubble: A bubble is similar to a Ponzi scheme in that one participant gets paid by contributions from a subsequent participant (until inevitable collapse). A bubble involves ever-rising prices in an open market (for example stock, housing, or tulip bulbs) where prices rise because buyers bid more because prices are rising. Bubbles are often said to be based on the “greater fool” theory. As with the Ponzi scheme, the price exceeds the intrinsic value of the item, but unlike the Ponzi scheme, there is no single person misrepresenting the intrinsic value.
My words again:
How did the Society get all the money in the first place to “loan” out to the congregations for the 30,000 new halls and renovations? It was donated to them to pay for the literature and upkeep of the Bethels and for new Kingdom Hall construction in poor countries. We were shown where poor brothers and sisters had to sit in the rain and outside and couldn’t afford a Kingdom Hall. That is why that money was contributed in the first place.
At least 30 years ago, our congregation was asked to buy the insurance for the Hall through the Society. I remember our congregation was paying every month to the Society for the insurance. The Society thought as long as every Kingdom Hall needed insurance in case of a fire and were paying outside insurance companies, why not go into the insurance business and get money from that in the form of a donation. We were always asked to pay for the Circuit Overseer’s expenses. Then we were asked to pay for their cars and their insurances. Our congregation expenses every month was more for paying off expenses incurred for insurances to the Society and car expenses of the circuit overseers than anything else.
Then there was a box for paying for the literature that everyone used at the door. Then there was a box for the worldwide work. Then the regional building committee decided that our 15 year old Kingdom Hall needed renovations at the cost of $37,500 and the congregation took out a loan for that. Then our congregation paid off that “loan” for that and now our congregation was asked to “donate” that amount every month for poor brothers and sisters who couldn’t afford to build a hall where they could be comfortable in and they were asked to “donate” any funds they had in the bank and our congregation “donated” $7,500 that they had saved up for a new parking lot and our congregation “donated” that and the congregation was kept in the dark that actually the letter that the elders didn’t read was that the Society was putting pressure on the congregation to hand any money they had in the bank and the elders complied with that pressure, thinking that the Society would never lie to them since God is supposedly directing the Society.
This sounds like a scheme from the “corporation” of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society to build huge “banks” where they could loan out money for interest and then they were caught and decided that since the I.R.S. was going to come after them for being a “bank” for loaning out money at interest, they would no longer be considered a “charity” and instead of paying off “loans” the congregations would be tricked into calling it a “donation” instead and then the Society could get away with “charging” interest on “loans”.
But how did they get all this money that they were so generous in “forgiving” the loans in the first place? They never earned a penny of that money that the “bank” of the Society loaned out. It was all given to them under the pretense of supporting the world wide work. They never “earned” a cent of that money that they seem so “generous” is loaning out.
Those men haven’t earned one red penny that they “donate” out of their own pockets to the world wide work. They get new suits from that donated money and they get new cars and plane rides and health care. How much money did they ever earn in their entire lives that they donate to the work? All they do is manage money coming in. They consider that a “job” that they can feel good about “taking” money from those donations from.
They can “take” as much as they want and don’t have to answer to anybody. They can decide how much they want and take it and nobody has to know. Nobody is allowed to ask either. Nobody is allowed to criticize them for it. They don’t even have to go in service because their “job” is managing the money and giving talks and guilting people into giving more and more and more to them.
Ask yourself: Where did they get so much money in the first place that they could become a bank to “loan” out all that money?????? Where was that money supposed to go when it was donated to them???????
Greetings from South Africa
Dear Stephen Lett and associates
Before requesting payment, please can you pay this outstanding bill due to myself, friends and family:
– Parents sale of family house in 1971 due to WBS instruction and peer pressure to pioneer – USD $200 000
– Loss of income due to WBS discouragement to get a professional qualification – USD $ 3 000 000
– Loss of income due to serving a six year community service sentence due to WBS stance on neutrality – USD $ 120 000
– Supporting elderly parents due to discouragement from WBS to build a retirement fund, housing or medical provision in their younger years – USD $100 000
– Divorce costs after 12 years of an unhappy marriage (for both parties) based on WBS teaching to “marry only in the lord” – USD $ 40 000
– Emotional grief for not meeting the required field service hours, being ministerial servant or elder “material” – USD ???
Cost of being no part of WBS and living a happy, balanced life – priceless!!!
Have a nice day
@kaput. I DO Like your STYLE of Writing & Especially DEEP Analysis of DETAILS in what Compensation you are owed by the Governing Body & I think we should send Stephen LETTS & Co. Your Bill times 8 Million WASTED LIVES .I think you should INCREASE your compensation for 12 Years of Failed Marriage because of the ‘MARRY in the LORD’ directive from $40,000 to at Least $120,000 !!’
This is good. But, compensation for lack of higher education should be in the millions USD.
Whoops, sorry just noticed it was!
Wow. Reading that almost brought me to tears. I am so sorry for all the loss you have sustained. It is frustrating and makes me so angry at these years lost, the time lost. The constant struggle of coming to terms with the emotional, physical and financial loss. I pray for all those who have lost family friends property and sanity to this mess.
@ anonymous, You’ve got these guys down cold.
They just take from communities and put nothing
back. Invest more of your time ( your life, ) more
of your money, and all for a fictitious dividend.
It’s coming soon, just hang in there, can’t fail, God
is our backer ! What a con ! Al Capone, the Mafia,
just amateurs by comparison.
Al got nailed by the I,R,S, the 7 GB crooks are tax
exempt as a “Registered Charity” . That surely is
a euphemism, charity involves giving to those in
need, something of value, not failed promises false
hopes. Wake up I,R,S,
I do think it is a BIG MISTAKE of the GB to Broadcast from now on in 40 Languages every month starting with this Stephen LETTS ‘BEGGING for Money ‘ May Broadcast. The Germans,French,Italians,Dutch,Swedish,Norwegian ,etc & other Educated Europeans will not be as Gullible as many less well educated South Americans,Africans& People from Philipines & Far East. I Think & I hope I am right but maybe the figures will show a decrease in some European Countries in next years Yearbook???!
@Anonymous . EXCELLENT Analysis of the Financial RIPOFF by the 7 RICH MEN of the GB !! I wouldn’t call it aPonzi scheme But a STINKING PONCY SCHEME!!!!
This is a really good video on Youtube with Brian Culkin and his involvement with Scientology and he could be describing the Watchtower Society and how it’s all about the money. This interview is an hour long but well worth the time to listen to it. This is a video you can show somebody who isn’t a Witness and they should see all the similarities between Scientology and JW’s and how evil it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=R31Ea2FjKhE
I’m not saying the WTS is transparent, or even fair with what they do with donations, but I will defend them against others that suggest donations are lining their pockets. I spent time at Patterson Bethel, which was often called “the country club” by Bethelites, but it was far from having a resort-feel. True, they do have cost-free living with many perks, but I never saw evidence of anyone getting rich or any kind of financial corruption. The transportation usually consists of general motors vehicles they purchase or lease through a discounted fleet deal. They are practical, comfortable and dependable as they would need to be, but not luxurious as some suggest. The housing is clean and well-maintained, though quite small and has no fancy features whatsoever. Married couples have tiny 1 bedroom apartments and the single brothers pile in 2-4 per apartment. Basic furnishing are provided and nothing else. If you travel they do set you up with a laptop. I delivered laundry to the rooms so I was able to see many. As far as I could tell, the “heavies” as we called the anointed or old experienced ones, really had nothing in the way of material things over anyone else there. The stipend for all was $90/month. Traveling overseer couples do have a lot paid for them as well, but if you ask me, their lives totally suck otherwise.
Finn, are you privy as to the Governing Body’s bank accounts? Do they get “gifts” from people? Do the Governing Body members and their wives have to do their own housework and cooking? How much money do they get every week?
Answer me this: Why do the congregations have to pay forever on “loans” that they took out from the Society and paid off and not own that Kingdom Hall and when or if it’s sold have to start all over again with payments forever?
People who belong to Scientology get paid only $50 a week so they get paid even more than Bethelites. If the Bethelites get $90 a month, that amounts to about 50 cents an hour and then of course those people have to go in service and meetings too.
At least people who belong to Scientology get over a dollar an hour. Both cults take advantage of really good people who think they are saving the world and the way the Society is getting rich off of it is by accumulating real estate properties and even though the “mortgages” are called “donations”, they are still unending “mortgage” payments which are never ending.
The Society makes Witnesses feel that God is commanding them to go to the meetings. That is the first guilt trip they lay on the Witnesses. The 2nd guilt trip is then that if they go to meetings, then they have to support the Hall and the Society. It’s all a money making scheme in the name of religion.
I feel so sorry for the Bethelites. We all know that the Bethelites aren’t getting rich. They are being used and abused.
I feel sorry for the bethelites as well. Having been one though, I can tell you, the majority think they are heads above the rest of us.
It’s not hard to see where all that money is going. The WTS is an enormous, complex, global conglomerate. Rather than speculate with what they do with all that extra money, the real question IMO is how they raise enough money to finance what is visible. Take Patterson for instance, the “watchtower educational center.” It truly is a city unto itself. Besides the large apartment buildings and enormous auditorium, dining hall, kitchen and office buildings and all the constant repair and maintenance those need– they have male/female gyms, a pool, a parking garage complete with carwash bays, gas station, a HUGE high-tech automotive repair shop with in-house auto parts store. They have their own water reservoir complete with a waste water treatment plant, a ranch with beef cows, an orchard, carpentry and mechanical shops, tons of construction equipment, the audio/video department (which is its own small campus), the Patterson Inn, which is multi-unit motel for visitors the size of a small apartment complex, welding shops, diesel shops, tool shops, computer departments, professional laundry and dry cleaning, a shoe shop, barber, a real dr. office, chiropractor office, physical therapy clinic, infirmary with numerous hospital rooms to care for the old folks, commissary, fire department, several off-site houses where the lawyers and doctors live with their families. And no, they are not nice houses, really average actually. I have seen them all. I could go on and on. I’m probably forgetting a lot and that’s just Patterson! The real question is, how do they have enough money to support what they have? I guess anything is possible but I think it is highly unlikely there are hidden playboy mansions and yachts we don’t know about. If the GB were making discreet deposits into their personal accounts it would be for nothing, because they don’t really have any expenses and no time to do anything with it. I understand wanting to insinuate the GB is crooked, but I don’t think they are in financial matters. If this could be proven it really would be the end of them. Your question about gifts is weird, because we all get gifts, its besides the point. And nobody gets has to cook/clean for themselves–that’s part of the deal if you work there, unless of course you are the cook or the housekeeper. There are a lot of Bethelites that were wealthy before they came, its one reason they can afford to be a full-time volunteer.
Anyway, I have a lot of gripes with the WTS, but financial dealings isn’t one and all the speculation about their accumulation of wealth seems far-fetched when you consider what they need just to support what facilities they have at present. Now you made me defend the GB and its put me in a bad mood. Signing off for a few hours. :)
@Finn Sawyer,
Thank you for enlightening me on the Bethel homes. I always wondered how they were able to maintain such a city.
Your input is invaluable.
Sweetie we’re not talking about the ones who are duped. People think because its not blatant and can’t be clearly be scrutinized. You have to be removed to see it clear. These men and their families I’m sure are all millionaires and live like it. Very people get close enough and NOBODY can’t scrutinize them. Or their spending or their activity. It’s all cloak and dagger. It’s BS essentially and only an OUTSIDE force will be able to bring it all to the light. And I’m praying it happens sooner rather than later.
Finn Sawyer,
Thank you for your insight. This raises the question, who does benefit from all that lovely money?
There are people, I am sure, that REALLY run the WTBTS. They don’t appear on stages, or have offices at any Bethel. They are the beneficiaries of the multi million property flipping scheme, and I would like to know who they are!
I wonder if there are mansions and other luxurious buildings for the high ups to enjoy, unknown and unused by lowly Bethel drones?
There is that 5 bedroom, 5 bathroom property in Wales, England, that the IBSA bought recently. Not much good for printing literature! That is the official purpose of the IBSA in Britain!
Let’s face it, they could easily purchase property that the lower down folks would have no knowledge of for the “cream of the crop” to enjoy. I have no proof that this is the case, but it would not surprise me at all.
Whatever the eventual fate of the money, it is indisputable that the WTBTS are inscrutable with their finances, and fleece the flock for every penny they can squeeze out of them.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
@Finn Sawyer. & @ Excelsior. Enjoyed both your comments. Finn, I would like to have your faith in what is happening to the donations,but I in this case Tend to agree with Excelsior & I will give you my reasons but I may be wrong & willing to be corrected.
9 years ago I went to Bethel for lunch with my wife to meet a sister who has been working at Bethels in Brooklyn for 30 years & worked in Mill Hill for 6 years. She had looked after many of the Anointed when they came to her & she said 11 properties on the roads around Mill Hill including The Ridgeway were owned by Watchtower. All these Homes were valued over £1.5 million pounds each , nowadays much more & more were being bought up . As we drove around after the meal in our car she pointed out where Circuit & District Overseers & other High Ranking Personel were living & which houses. Many of the houses were lovely Tudor Style houses. Then she told me she had to share a room with another sister & share a bathroom with 4 others.
This reminds me of what OLIN Moyle ( who used to be a Loyal JW& Lawyer)in 1939 said in court against Rutherford that he Lived in a 10 room MANSION (Beth SARIM) & had 2 Cadillacs, A property on Staten Island & rooms at Bethel !! He Also told Haydon Covington in 1941 & Knorr& Franz that he wanted them to Go FIRST CLASS Travel whether by Plane,Rail,Boat etc .
Now I do the Accounts for my Congregation.The Circuit overseer gets A BRAND NEW CAR every 3 Years, All Insurance,Maintenance,Road Tax,Petrol , Food& Circuit Flat All PAID by the Congregations in the Circuit. PLUS our Congregation collected over £345 in an Envelope one Visit for them to go on Holiday. Other Visits Many Brothers give Individual Envelopes at the End of the Visit with £20 or more in ! I have seen the wife being given at least 25 to 30 Envelopes! So say weekly about on average £400 to £600 TAX FREE on top of all the other PERKS I have just mentioned!! YET the Apostle Paul visited many congregations & YET worked as a TENTMAKER so as not to be a BURDEN on the Brothers! JESUS Had Nowhere to Lay his head!
I Would be LESS SUSPICIOUS if the Watchtower PUBLISHED Yearly ACCOUNTS Itemising:
1) DONATIONS from Money
2) DONATIONS from Property
3) DONATIONS from Stocks,Shares&Wills
4) Watchtower Property Value SOLD
5) Then Expenses on Literaure,Kingdom Halls
& Travel,Hotel Rooms,Clothes,Cars,Food Etc.
ME CYNICAL??? Noooooo!!! JUST want some Details like anyone who calls themselves a Charity
In my Last comment about half way down I said He told Haydon Covington,Franz& Knorr to go First Class … The ‘He’ was Rutherford told them in a Quote from Haydon Covington.
If anyone gets time Google ‘ Haydon Covington ‘. This Man I Have TOTAL ADMIRATION for the GUTS& COURAGE he had But Even though he was Vice President of Watchtower 1942-1945 He was forced to step down because he was Honest to say he was of the Great Crowd . I believe FORCED out by Knorr who he didn’t trust. Haydon was a BRILLIANT LAWYER but had his weaknesses & Left Bethel in 1963 as he was Disfellowshipped for Alcoholism. If you google Muhammad Ali & Haydon Covington it is so Fascinating. Haydon Defended Muhammad Ali in court on the Draft issue in Vietnam & Haydon won his case for Ali in 1967 . Haydon died in 1978 from Alcoholic related problems but said to say he was contacted a few months before his death & reinstated as a JW!!
Interesting about Hayden Covington, I will try to look into that.
Hey PB,
See my above comment. I have my problems with the GB and the WTS, but I just can’t see financial corruption happening. Like I said, they have so much to pay for it boggles my mind they can raise enough to keep the lights on.
Finn, I fully understand that the Society has an awful lot to pay for every month. I know that.
We were always told to keep our life simple. The more you buy, the more there is for upkeep. That was always the advice to the rank and file. If you own 5 houses, then you have 5 houses to take care of and pay for upkeep and taxes and grass to mow and the more you have to pay somebody to take care of those properties when you aren’t there to take care of that property.
We were always told to keep our lives simple. Why were we told to keep our lives simple? So that we would be able to give the Society more money. That is the way I see it.
In the beginning, Russell was publishing millions of books and magazines and they had almost nothing compared to today. If you have thousands of Bethelites working in those Bethels, of course, it’s going to cost millions to take care of them. If the Society wanted to keep it simple, they could put the magazines online and people could print out the magazines they want to place and it wouldn’t cost the Society anything in Bethelites and upkeep of buildings. I have already done that lots of times when I couldn’t find my Watchtower. The congregations already prints out stuff already. I believe the whole thing is a scam to get real estate in the guise of religion.
The Watchtower and Awakes that the public get are nothing but pablum. There is nothing of value in any of those magazines anymore. Those magazines and books are just an excuse for those buildings. You can’t have all those buildings without people (Bethelites) working there, now can you?
The whole point of the organization is supposed to be “witnessing” about Jehovah. The whole point shouldn’t be building more and more buildings but that is what the Society cares about a whole lot more than it does the “spiritual” food. The “spiritual food” is supposed to be the stuff that they place door to door to convert the world. The Witnesses who are Witnesses already don’t need converting, so why new magazines for them every month?
Their main purpose is supposed to be what Matt. 28:19,20 says to preach the word. It shouldn’t be in the building of new Kingdom Halls. People don’t need a big shiny new Kingdom Hall to meet to go in service. We used to meet in each others’ homes and go from there. We used to meet in school gyms for assemblies. Now it’s all about new Kingdom Halls.
I believe that if the Society printed out an accounting of all the properties that they own, that an awful lot of Witnesses would stop supporting them and quit. Most Witnesses think that the only place that money goes to is to Bethels and new Kingdom Halls but they would be shocked to know the honest truth about all their properties. If they were all that broke, then why buy up luxury apartment buildings and new mansions in Europe?
I’d like to know how much money they take in from all the assemblies every year. We don’t know anything about how much they get in donations and how much do they get in stocks and bonds.
In the United States, the saying is that the banks are too big to fail. I also feel that way about the Society. I feel they have gotten so big that unless they start simplifying, that it will get to the point that they will have to start tithing like the Mormons do or start selling off more and more of their Kingdom Halls, until people get smart and quit them.
The Society shouldn’t be running up bills and expecting the rank and file to pay for it without having any say in the matter. There would be complete transparency if they were actually run by God.
@ Excelsior, I have similar thoughts as you , who really
pulls the strings. Are the 7 really in charge or are they just
Puppets ? Mr, Lett for instance gives a stunning impression
of one !
There’s no doubt the “Judge” was in absolute control and
had an opulent lifestyle. Wintering in the sun, cars that any
countries leaders or industrial tycoon would be happy to own,
and a well stocked liquor cabinet etc.
When his way of life was challenged by Olin Moyle., Moyle
and his wife were dismissed from Bethel and their personal
belongings thrown onto the pavement. ( Olin R, Moyle’s
charges against Rutherforde. were upheld in court. )
So who is the present day “Dictator/s,” living the deluxe life
off the toil and contributions of the exploited ? Like all cults
It’s a secret society, cards played very close to the chest, so
it’s difficult to fathom. But I know from hard won experience,
how to recognise a swindle.