Highly-secretive “Talmudic” Correspondence Guidelines document leaked by Watchtower insider
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The November 2014 JW Broadcasting episode shows mail being sorted at Watchtower's correspondence department

The November 2014 JW Broadcasting episode shows mail being sorted at Watchtower’s correspondence department

The last few weeks will have been deeply frustrating for the Governing Body, as multiple leaks have exposed a growing resentment of their attitudes and policies among an increasing number of bethel workers.

And now a fresh leak from a Watchtower insider has blown the lid wide open on how the organization deals with issues affecting the rank and file.

“Correspondence Guidelines” is a 118-page document issued to key staff at bethels around the world, giving cookie-cutter responses to a long list of scenarios involving various doctrines.

Previously only available to a privileged few, a 2011 edition of the document is now freely available, effectively meaning that anyone who has the document knows how Watchtower will reply to almost any letter they write before they even put pen to paper.

For the avoidance of further entanglements with Watchtower’s legal department over its interpretation of copyright law, we at JWsurvey have decided not to distribute the Correspondence Guidelines on this website.

Whether you, the reader, choose to access the material from elsewhere on the internet is entirely your decision.

pictureThe Correspondence Guidelines were virtually unheard-of until mentioned by former Governing Body member Ray Franz in his follow-up to Crisis of ConscienceIn Search of Christian Freedom – on page 242.

in-search1 The subject list continues over a further two pages before Franz summarizes on page 245…

in-search2After spending an hour or so last night perusing the pages of this fascinating document, I can fully concur with Franz’s characterization of it as “Talmudic.” A plethora of subject headings delve into areas as diverse as transvestism, refugees, animal blood, hermaphrodites, sterilization and “retarded persons” with giddying pedantry.

The writers of the document themselves seem to recognize how ridiculous it is by their attempts at defending it in their opening remarks…

Bear in mind that much of what is published on matters of conduct is to be viewed not as law but rather as mature Christian counsel. So it is not always necessary to think in terms of imposing sanctions if a person does not fully conform to the counsel given.

But this disclaimer is overtly contradicted on only the next page…

If the one inquiring reflects a challenging, disrespectful attitude, it may be advisable first to contact the elders to determine the person’s standing in the congregation and what assistance they have been able to render.

Therefore, anyone who writes to the organization with anything other than praise and flattery, or who gives the impression they know what they’re talking about, can expect their local elders to get a phonecall – an underhanded breach of confidence that surely represents a “sanction” in and of itself.

Further contradictions present themselves as the reader delves into the various subjects. For example, accepting a blood transfusion without regret, even if it proves to be life-saving, remains a disfellowshipping offense…

A baptized person who willfully and unrepentantly takes a blood transfusion thereby chooses to reject the Scriptural sanctity of blood and violates God’s law. Three elders (not a judicial committee) should meet with him. If a blood transfusion has been accepted without repentance, the congregation will consider that the person has disassociated himself. It would then be announced: “[Name of individual] is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.” The matter would be dealt with as in other cases of disassociation.—w86 10/15 31; w73 9/1 543-4.

But if you happen to be a JW nurse or doctor, and you are instructed to administer a blood transfusion to a non-JW patient, you can do so without fear of reprisals…

A Christian who is a nurse or a doctor respects the Scriptures and therefore would not recommend or order a blood transfusion for a patient. If he or she as an employee is not responsible for deciding the matter and is directed by a superior to administer a transfusion to a non-Witness, whether to obey is a matter for personal, conscientious decision.—w99 4/15 28-30; w75 4/1 215-16.

On the other hand, if you’re a farmer and allow a blood transfusion for one of your animals, expect a slapped wrist at the very least…

It is not proper for a Christian to administer a blood transfusion to an animal owned by him or to authorize another to do so.—w64 2/15 127-8.

Since this is a 2011 edition, we have no way of knowing whether the subject of child abuse has been addressed more comprehensively in more recent editions (which seems likely given all the media exposure on that subject since the Candace Conti victory in 2012).

Even so, given the fact that mishandling of child abuse among Jehovah’s Witnesses has been highlighted since at least 2002 (when BBC Panorama and Dateline documentaries first exposed the issue to a mass audience), you would expect the safeguarding of the children of Jehovah’s Witnesses from sexual predators to merit more column inches than, say, discussing the propriety of Tae Bo.

But child molestation gets only three passing mentions in this document. Pages 41 and 110 give far-from-unequivocal guarantees that molesting a child will prevent a Witness male from serving in a position of responsibility.

For example, the sin may involve past child abuse, and this would likely disqualify him for many years.

Some who are guilty of child molestation, even if not disfellowshipped for such actions, might never qualify for special privileges in the congregation.

Then on page 53 the writers ponder the situation of a minor girl who is raped and falls pregnant. Rather than worrying about the girl’s well-being and the urgent need to pursue justice for her assailant, attention turns to the living arrangements of the resulting baby, and whether the abused child will have to marry her attacker or not.

Child that results either from fornication or from rape of a minor girl: The father of the single, minor girl (or the mother in a singleparent home where there is no father) bears the responsibility to decide whether the infant will be raised in the home or elsewhere. It shows consideration on his part to consider the minor’s valid wishes. He must also decide whether to permit the girl to marry the male who caused the pregnancy. Being pregnant does not require marriage to the father of the child simply to avoid illegitimacy. A hasty or improper marriage may only make a bad situation worse. Emotional support from individuals in the congregation is sometimes helpful.

The failure of the writers to adequately explore and address what we now know to be a rampant problem of child abuse in the organization, with 1,006 suspected pedophiles on the records of Watchtower in Australia alone, highlights either stunning naivety on the part of the Governing Body (who will have sanctioned this material), or deliberate negligence of their duty to protect children from a clear threat.

Ray Franz described the "Correspondence Guidelines" as "Talmudic"

Ray Franz described the Correspondence Guidelines as “Talmudic”

The proper handling of domestic violence, also a huge problem in the organization, is similarly given short shrift. Page 51 briefly mentions court action as being favorable in the case of a violently abusive husband for the protection of his victim, but nowhere does it suggest that a believing woman who finds herself in such a situation would be allowed to find happiness with a new husband.

In contrast to the terse treatment of such a pressing issue that affects battered spouses in countless marriages, nine pages are devoted to the various nuances of divorce, adultery and remarriage. Every conceivable permutation of marital infidelity is explored in fanatical detail.

Again, “Talmudic” is the only word that can do justice to Watchtower’s obsession with sex and morals. And only the word “pharasaical” can describe their corresponding indifference to the countless victims, past, present and future, of physical abuse in its various forms.

Finally, I was struck by the section on “bloodguilt,” which had the following to say…

The Bible condemns murder, a sin for which a person may be disfellowshipped.—Rev. 21:8.

Bloodguilt may also be incurred if a person causes loss of life through carelessness or because of violating a traffic law or other safety law of Caesar. If a Witness is liable for someone’s death in an accident, the elders should investigate and if warranted appoint a judicial committee to hear the matter, for the congregation wants to avoid community responsibility for bloodguilt.

One can’t help but wonder just how much blood is on the hands of Watchtower leaders past and present, from Knorr to the likes of Morris, Splane and Lett, for the countless lives that have been lost due to the ridiculous prohibitions on blood.

How many lives have been brutally cut short as a result of indoctrinated cult victims declining medical treatment with blood, a practice on which the scriptures are silent? We may never know. And that is to say nothing of the unknown number who have ended their lives as a result of Watchtower’s ruthless shunning practices.

One thing is certain, namely that the Governing Body won’t be making changes to save lives or protect the vulnerable any time soon. But at least there is some comfort in knowing that a growing number within bethel corridors are awakening to the full reality of a shared struggle, and working with myself and others to give thorough exposure to this devastating cult.

 

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366 Responses to Highly-secretive “Talmudic” Correspondence Guidelines document leaked by Watchtower insider

  1. I remember when I was working in the Service Department of the Branch in Barcelona, Spain, looking for “guidelines” in this Talmudic” material. It was all about examples of different situations involving violations of the Watchtower policies and how to answer correctly.

    The idea was to keep the organization uniform and to avoid personal thinking, they did the thinking for everyone.

    At that time I was very appreciative of the “help provided” by the organization, not realizing that they were destroying my thinking capacities and I was transferring to them my right to take decisions about how to answer the correspondence.

    • Catalina says:

      Nestor Kuilan, It is so nice people with backgrounds like yours are on this website. Sometimes my comments sound really negative. In reality, believe it or not, I am a very positive person. I’m working at getting my mind straight. It wasn’t until several months ago I figured out how off the organization is. I’m in good standing. My husband passed away over two years ago and my family is shunning me because I remarried and my new husband is catholic. When I told my sister I remarried she said, “You never learn, your dead to me.” My feelings were hurt and I went through depression for a year. My family is giving my husband a terrible witness. I love my new husband. He is 71 years old. He is the finest man I have ever known. He is easy going, meek and mild. I can’t approve of any religion that causes family to act so judgmentally. Even so I’m still wrapping my head around all of this. In the JW religion I see sometimes JW family is harder on their own family members than the rank and file.

      • tiger123 says:

        Catalina,

        Just had to stop and say you are so brave, it is refreshing to hear that you chose a good man, not a GB endorsed man. No age is to old to decide to start living and be happy and no hour to short to be minimized.

        Best wishes and warm regards

      • Meredith J says:

        So sorry to hear about your husband Catalina. But what a turn of events marrying a Catholic? He sounds like a real find.

        I remember now you saying about what your sister said to you. What a horrible thing to say. It is just like the scripture where it says that a persons enemies will be persons from their own household. Let’s hope she gets to apologise one day. You do sound so positive. I have always picked that up about you.

        • Catalina says:

          Meredith, the people on this website are awesome. It takes people who have gone through these experiences to help others coming out of darkness. The comments I read are very helpful. What we have in common is we’re not full of hate or mental disease we are learning and getting our brains unscrambled. My husband blames himself and feels bad because he feels my family is rejecting me because of him. It makes me so mad anyone can make him feel bad. I showed him this website and so far I’ve only heard him say oh wow. It’s a good thing Lloyd shares documented proof. This helps me explain things to my husband. It’s awesome to see people with similar experiences.

          • Holy Connoli says:

            @ Catalina. So do you still attend meetings sometimes? Does your landlord JW pressure you to attend? That is a problem living to close to other JW’s bc they are always in your business and snoop around for the Borg.Reminds me of a foeign movie I saw a few years that was taking place in East Germany during the late 1980’s right before the Berlin Wall came down. Everybody was suspicious of the other people and they would report you to the Commies if you challenged them or did not follow party line. They even had wire taps in peoples homes to try to trap them and listen to what they were saying.
            Isaw it with my JW wife and I told her the WT was just like that and she got really upset with me and said I was an Apostate! lol The truth is they are not much different. They only are your Brothers if you follow party line and they are always ready to turn you in to the Borg.

          • Meredith J says:

            Yes, you are right Catalina. We are learning and getting our brains unscrambled. I had been shutting the damage out for a very long time as I had been trying very hard to straighten my life out. Nestor Kuilan got it right when he said that they took away our thinking capabilities. And yes, the people on here are awesome that’s for sure.

          • David Tritenbach says:

            Hi Catalina,

            we had a sister with a husband that beat her to a pulp. Her father was one of the staunch old-school elders and never said anything to her daughter’s abuser because he was a great elder and asset to the Regional Building Committee.

            After ten years of getting beaten a worldly psychologist helped her socialize with a battered women’s group giving her the strength to leave this terrible man. What kind of man allows his daughter with health problems to get her ribs broken, dislocate her eyes and hematomas(great swelling of the liver, you can die easily from them.) from hits to her liver?

            She divorced him and her family except her sister who was married to another JW abuser decided to leave her abuser and live with her sister. After ten years and the marriage of this great elder she found a worldy professor teaching psychology and married him. Her JW father has not spoken a word to him, they have three kids and her dad will not speak to the grandkids or the husband.

            Please help me understand what kind of Organization allows men to beat up women, fathers to turn the other way and fathers who shun their grandchildren because his daughter was afraid her husband was going to kill him! So when you talk to your husband perhaps you can tell him about this, both sisters lost contact with their Dad because they did not want to remain a Kingdom Hall Punching Bag!

      • Holy Connoli says:

        @ Catalina. The WT policies on everything is so restrictive and short term. They write tons of material on happiness and how to find it but look at the JW’s themselves. For the most part they are not happy. They have a higher rate of depression than the general public,I know when I was an Elder I was sincere and always wanted to help my brothers as much as I could and so many were not happy and depressed etc.
        Even myself when I was an elder and true blue JW kept asking myself why I was not so “HAPPY” as the WT claimed we are the happiest people on earth? ( like Disney land lol! ) My personal opinion is that the WT takes away your basic freedom that God gave us to make personal decisions in life what is best for you and your family.

        They also take away any personal incentive to do something productive with your life and therefore stifling human growth and creativity. Then they play mind games of guilt if you are not doing enough for the BORG or placing enough magazines etc. Then they put fear into you if you leave your family cannot speak with you.

        I remember quite well when I was in my 20’s and 30’s thinking there was something wrong with me bc I questioned many of these Wacko statements the WT would come out with about doctrine and their policies on grooming, sports, music, college education,school participation, dating, association, employment,owning a home etc.It seemed they had their nose in every aspect of your personal life and you needed to TOW the WT way of thinking. I would just humble myself and kept telling myself that I must be wrong bc “MOTHER” knows best and I kept it to myself.It made me very distressed to nor have an open forum .

        It goes on and on not to mention that you are not allowed to think or analyze what they say about flip flopping doctrine. Speaking of marriage the comment that Tony Morris made to the JW world and sisters about getting married and if you are dating someone that is not a MS and he is 23 years old or more Something is seriously wrong and you should not marry that person? What a bunch of nonsense. So if a young person is not a MS by 23 he is basically a bad guy not worthy of being a good marriage mate!

        In the JW world there are so few marriage mates available and Tight pants Tony says do not marry of he is not a MS by 23 years old? As if someone status in the CONG determines if he is going to be a good marriage partner or not? If that was true then no Elders or pioneers or MS would ever get divorced or separated correct?

        The entire line of reasoning is warped in the JW world and that is why so many are unhappy and conflicted and confused and judgmental. I am SO GLAD you found a great guy and he is kind and loving and supportive. That is all we need for a happy marriage and happy relationship.Real respect, real sharing, real understanding, open mindedness,working together.Happy for you!Don’t concern yourself with what your family says or thinks. Let them show their love towards their fellow man if they can. I am sure in their minds they are thinking…”maybe we can study with your new hubby and have him join the Borg”?

        • dee says:

          @Holy Connoli
          “In the JW world there are so few marriage mates available” for sisters.
          The GB scares the hell out of the sisters by telling them that only JWs are good, all non-witnesses are bad so there is just no way you could possibly find a non-witness who could make a good husband despite the fact that JWs also have problematic marriages, get divorced or separated.

          Many sisters suffer because of this fear that is driven into them by the GB. The lack of a marriage mate and the loneliness that it causes, causes a lot of depression and emotional distress for these sisters.

          I know of a case of a sister who said that her mother had to hold her and comfort her as she cried herself to sleep at nights because Jehovah had not provided a mate for her in the “truth”.

        • dee says:

          Constant guilt and fear that if you don’t do as the GB says then God is going to do something bad to you = Constant Mental Strain = Mental Health Issues

          • Catalina says:

            Tiger123, Meredith, Holy Connoli, and Dee, You guys are awesome. This website is awesome because people like you are on here. Yes, yes, yes I share this website with my new husband. When Jehovah’s Witnesses come to our door he visits with them. A JW father handed my husband over to his son and my husband visited with them for 1 1/2 hours. My husband is very kind. My husband saw me cry and hugged me after I got off the phone with my sister a year ago because she believes I’m immoral. My land lord is a JW and saw my husband and I together in my apartment. I never admitted to anything. I am being shunned. I’m not immoral. I have never been an immoral person. This is the second time I married out of the truth. The way I’m being treated is what caused me to start to wake up. Honestly, it is so encouraging to read the experiences you guys have had with JWS. You guys we have a lot of things in common. It takes people who have gone through this (JW) to help people who are coming out of darkness. You h=guys are so helpful. I cannot thank you guys enough. You are AWESOME. I’m not alone.

          • Catalina says:

            I need to add, the reason I show this website to my husband is because he wants to understand why my family acts the way they do. He sees they never answer my phone calls. He feels bad for me. He feels really bad about all of it so he blames himself. That makes me angry. My family shouldn’t cause my husband to feel that way. Sometimes I sound negative. In reality I am figuring out what is going on. Yes I am that slow because I’m emotional about the whole thing. Having you guys in my life helps a lot.

          • Catalina says:

            I like what you said, they play mind games of guilt . They do a great job. I’m sorry I said the same things over and over again in my posts. I forgot I wrote them the first time. I need to do a better job at proof reading.

          • Holy Connoli says:

            @ Dee, U R right Dee about the constant Mental stress the WT puts on people either conscientiously or sub conscientiously. All of that pressure everyday all year long will cause mental stress. As humans if we are not allowed to express ourselves and have an open forum we can go crazy. The Wt does not allow you to think on your own in fact they like to warn us about “INDEPENDENT” thinking? Constant mental pressure, you are not doing enough, you are doubting, you are not “WHOLE souled” You should be pioneering, you are having to much fun, you are missing to many meetings etc.

            I remember one Brother Jokingly said that the WT is afraid that somebody, somewhere might be enjoying life and that cannot be tolerated!

            But it is true what he said.One Elder and myself wanted to go to a baseball camp years ago for a week and have fun and exercise and experience the sport at a different level. Then he backed out of the plan bc he said if anyone found out he was going he could be removed as an Elder!? What does that have to do with Christianity I asked him? He said , he had already been warned not to go! JW’s the religion of no fun!

          • Meredith J says:

            Catalina, your repetition is definitely not picked up by me. You are so kind, sweet, sensitive and very mild mannered. My husband is mild mannered and hardly like me but I do so admire that quality in people.

            It is no wonder you never found a marriage mate in the truth. An MS by the time they are 23? Oh please! Then all the 23 year old males are made to feel that they are not complete somehow. What a way to give someone a serious complex? Or in other words “You are not worthy of a marriage mate.”

        • Tara says:

          Mt non witness husband left me 7 years ago for various whores etc on the oil rigs. He ended up marrying a woman who’s son he befriended. I was told to marry only in the lord… well there isn’t any brothers worth marrying if you can fins one at all. Out of the blue my first boyfriend contacted me via fb. He was ex army and he was willing to drop everything and come thousands of miles to marry me…. as it was it all fell apart when his aged parents got sick and he couldn’t leave them…. ah well. I’m still alone. I would refuse to marry a brother in the truth now anyways. Maybe one that was awake….. hmm I guess I will stay on my own and be a crazy cat lady. The WT drilled it into our minds that we have to marry in the truth… I’m glad you found someone Catalina and I wish you all the happiness in the world.

          • Holy Connoli says:

            @ Tara. Are you still attending meetings? It sounds like you are by what you are describing bc I am just curious based on your comments.It sounds like you are still 1/2 way in. Either way not judging bc we all move at different paces.

          • Tara says:

            Yeah I turn up but don’t take part. Haven’t been out in service for months…. I can’t leave my daughter in there or my grandchildren. Saying that. the elders are wanting to see me this week….. I wish I could just walk away from it all and start a new life but they have chains on you that they tug emotionally regarding you kids.

          • scott says:

            hello tara. the same issue applied to me. i could not get a good enough mate and somehow i have been alone since. the rules have not helped. i hope someday something good will come our way

        • dee says:

          @Holy Connoli:
          “Constant mental pressure you are not doing enough………..”.

          Another one for the list:
          You will be bloodguilty if you don’t preach and persons get destroyed at Armageddon……….I suppose it will be the publishers’ fault that approx. 250,000 persons are born everyday and God will have to destroy them at Armageddon bc it just won’t be possible for 8 mil publishers (according to WT stats) to reach everyone in the world. LOL!

          But it seems to me that this fear of bloodguilt certainly gets JWs moving. The fear of losing their own lives at Armageddon bc they didn’t preach enough is what seems to make JWs annoyingly persistent to the point where even if a householder adamantly states that he/she is not interested the JW never gives up trying to convert the person and they don’t realize that this can indeed be annoying.

          I suppose that the elder ditched the baseball camp because he felt guilty that he should be out in field service instead of enjoying himself.

          I also had similar experiences of inner conflict & guilt when I was a JW. For eg. I used to think that it would be wrong to be successful in this system of things – u are being too wordly , too much a part of Satan’s system if that were to be so.

          The WT’s pervasiveness into every aspect of our personal lives certainly takes the control of our lives away from us; as a result, we may end up not making the best decisions for ourselves and our family or short changing ourselves by giving up opportunities that we should not have given up and end up living a life of regret.

        • Catalina says:

          Holy Connoli, I don’t know if you are going to read this because several days have passed by sense the post. It happened today. My landlord and her husband are working on my husband. We live in apartment complex. Her husband is an elder and has offered to study the bible with my husband. My husband said no thank you but I feel nervous. I had a nightmare last night. I’m so glad my husband said no. I don’t know why I feel so intimidated. I know there’s nothing they can do to us. What’s the matter with me?

          • Idontknowhatodo says:

            There is nothing the matter with you Catalina… I know as do all of us it would be the biggest mistake your husband could make to cave in to a bible study…they are the ones with the problem not you…hopefully your husband wont give in because we all know what happens once they get thier claws into you…your husband sounds like a lovely man and you want to protect him and what you have…we have been brought up in fear…now we recognise who we really should have been afraid of…and we dont want to shut our eyes ever ever again…there is nothing wrong with you…your lovely…you have just woken up thats all.

          • Holy Connoli says:

            @ Catalina. You feel bad bc you now they are trying to control your marriage and family by “studying” with him. They said you were bad for marrying a great guy who is not JW yet they want to convert him now. You don’t want him top be sucked into the bad ways and bad life of the WT cult. I think that is why you feel bad. Just remember they did not treat him well when you married him.Now they want to “STUDY” with him? Oh yea then later DF him if he does not agree w WT theology.

      • Caroline (formerly anonymous) says:

        @Catalina, you were so much better off marrying out of the “truth”. Those of us who have wakened up but our mate has not wakened up, are in the worst of positions. You are so much better off in your situation.

        Most of the “happy” marriages that I have seen in the “truth” are those women who married out of the “truth”. The most miserable are those who married in the “truth”.

        If your relatives can’t accept your new husband, they don’t deserve you and you don’t deserve being treated like that.

        One of the sisters in my old congregation married out of the “truth” and nobody thought anything of it and the reason is that he owned a company and they are very rich and the brothers looked at him like he was a bank account for the taking (He died last year).

        It all depends on who you marry and if you are still going to the meetings. If you marry somebody who is rich or a doctor or a lawyer, they won’t care at all. All they will see is money going into the contribution box.

        • Catalina says:

          Caroline, Family is important to me. I do see there is no love there because of the JW religion. My sister would have complained she got away with it and she’s a bad example by getting married out of the truth. They are shallow. They go door to door and make meetings and aren’t bothered with anyone otherwise. It’s all for looks. I feel the proof Lloyd provides proves this. And Jw org is great at manipulation. The mind control takes time to separate from. I really feel I have friends on this website.

          • Caroline (formerly anonymous) says:

            @Catalina, you are so right. My cousins who think they brought me into the “truth” won’t have anything to do with me either. They deleted me off of Facebook and they all totally wrote me off. It shows me they were never my friends in the first place and I hate them for what they did to me and what they are still doing to me now. I don’t feel as if I could ever forgive them for it.

            If the tables were turned, I would have gone to them to ask them why they stopped going to meetings.

            I don’t believe the motive for what they are doing to me is because they love me and want me to live into the new world but they are just following orders from the Society and view me as demonic. That is why I can’t forgive them for shunning me like they are doing and I haven’t even been disfellowshipped. My children are not shunning me though and if the tables were turned and they were the ones that stopped going to meetings first, I would never do that to them, to shun them like that.

            I hope you can forgive your relatives if you can. Maybe their motives are because they really love you and want you to live into the new world. That I could forgive.

          • Meredith J says:

            You know that reminds me of those sisters we had in our congregation who had unbelieving mates (I mean those who were already married when they were baptised). We had so many Watchtowers telling us how they were such self-sacrificing women who suffered greatly by having a mate who would not go to the meetings.

            I already worked out that these women had the best of both worlds. One we had was married to a bank manager. She did not want for anything, never having to work, always having plenty of money to pay for petrol to pioneer, living in a beautiful house overlooking the beach. She had it made. All the others were pretty much the same. Their husbands had great jobs. They had plenty of money. They never got pressure to serve where the need was great, or to pioneer of course because they had an unbelieving mate of course. Oh that was having a foot in both camps.

            Sorry if anyone here is in that situation, but really, this was where the Watchtower exaggerated the difficulties of those having an unbelieving mate. My husband who was an MS was under constant strain by the elders palming all their work onto him while he was trying to bring up a young family on a very low budget in a rented house and paying off our car. No, it was the families who were doing it toughest, not these other ones who were always favoured by the elders and put on a pedestal in the Watchtower study.

          • Caroline (formerly anonymous) says:

            @Meredith, the kids also have it best when their father is not a Witness because they get to do all the “fun” things that kids of both Witness parents can’t do. They can have their birthday parties and do Halloween and do sports and go to college and go to the prom and date.

            The Society is not telling the truth when they pretend that Witness women have it harder when their husbands are not in the “truth”.

            I figured that out a long time ago and they aren’t fooling any of us when they say that. We just aren’t allowed to say it out loud to anybody around us for fear of looking like we are saying the Society is lying to us or we will get called into the back room for counseling. We are not even aloud to THINK like like that.

        • Meredith J says:

          Yes, and every body feels so sorry for them. Their sons get good jobs and have nice cars and they marry the most beautiful of the young sisters. And they get privileges to boot. Usually ending up as elders. Oh I know. It was all so hard to cope with. The inequality of it all.

          • Don't want to say my name says:

            Meredith

            You actually made me cry. That was exactly how it was for my family, except both my parents were staunch JWs, but my other relatives were all married to wealthy unbelievers.

            Everyone in their congregations fawned around them because of their lovely houses and luxurious lifestyles.

            They had such an easy life, as you said – best of both worlds. Mine was awful. No one understood. I left; they all cut me off.

            They continue to this day with a comfortable lifestyle that is very self-obsessed and materially focussed while outwardly acting as though nothing else matters except JW Org; entertaining high up ones in the Org at the houses provided by their unbelieving spouses and maintaining a sanctimonious holier than thou attitude towards me.

            The hypocrisy makes me sick. I can’t wait until this Organisation collapses. Please let it be soon.

          • Meredith J says:

            It’s pretty bad isn’t it Don’t want to say my name when you go to every meeting and you end up in tears? I really feel for you going through life feeling like Cinderella. We too had our moments where we felt so looked down upon solely because we had chosen to follow the path the Watchtower were setting out.

            You realise that you are the one now who has had their eyes opened, which I believe is a real privilege. I am sure your suffering is remembered by the One who counts. These ones knew how to play the system so that the Watchtower worked for them. Money talks with these people sadly. You know that is why we did not fit in anyway.

        • adrian says:

          Hi Guys, I am new to this site. My name’s Adrian and I was a JW for over 25 yrs. I remember we had a new bible study, attending meetings, who just happened to be a millionaire. After a very short time, whenever the elders gathered for a chat, on the platform after a meeting, they started to invite the bible study up there with them, as if he was an elder. He wasn’t even baptized. They never invited baptized brothers, but they did invite this millionaire bible study. Well, the bible study got baptized and in no time at all he was appointed MS then elder. I’ve often wondered just how gullible that poor guy was. Didn’t he ever realize that all they wanted was his money? Thank goodness I am out of that mind controlling cult! Been out for about 20 yrs now. You guys on here are all awesome! I read all your experiences and I can recall many others who experienced the same. Btw I am now a born again Christian and I have never felt so happy and so close to my God. Bye all!

      • Stew says:

        my family are jw, my daughter had a marking talk this year for dating a man raised a jw who is now studying but is not baptised, because I support my daughter we are now in a semi dissfellowshiped state. The control / sanctions to force uniformity breaks the heart. It’s so far removed from the law of the Christ

    • David Tritenbach says:

      Appreciate this information, how are are your parents treating you Lloyd? Has the ice broken at all since you became aware we were all living a lie?

      I tried to find your personal biography how you came to the realization this was not the truth? I would love to read it and many of us would love to read more your not able to put on a fast pace site like jwsurvey. Can you write a book on your own personal journey plus a few others you feel represent a bigger sample of the Whole, people whose eyes were opened up in different way giving readers not only more chances to reflect on their own plight but additional details about all the new crazy doctrines and power-struggle changes we’ve experienced since Ray Franz Jr. died.

      Ray Franz Jr. had a way with words, he respectfully told a story with lots of facts showing how the Watchtower was not right. I think you have access to some great talent Lloyd, I hope your father wake’s up and see’s this is a hoax. There’s no honor perpetuating a lie after almost 160 years of Crying Wolf like the Watchtower has done!

      • David Tritenbach says:

        Has anyone caught the “New Light” the Organization is passing around? They use Genesis 4 where the following happen’s “and Eve gave birth to Cain and said I have produced a man with Jehovah’s Help!”

        The Organization uses two scriptures in Genesis 4 stating that “Its wrong to praise your child!” That’s what the fool said at our Kingdom Hall, how can they make insane statements when most JWs are already mentally imbalanced?

        How bad does the Watchtower want parents and children to feel? Many of us already feel a self-loathing produced by this Organization of Abhoring oneself unless their spending 24/7 blindly obeying the Borg!

        How does their reasoning make sense, where are they pulling “God does not want us to praise our children!” such filth from? I think its because most of them have never had kids and this reminds me of the CO and his wife who were given a pet dog. They kept their dog in a box, they kept it locked up until one of the brothers told them it was abuse! This was one of their most valued circuit overseers until he got old and became of little use.

        Now JWs are attacking children, what a hate-filled religion!

  2. rob says:

    Just wondering something – If GB is directed by God’s Holy Spirit – why do they need 2/3 majority to pass “new light” or any other doctrinal changes or other procedures? Wouldn’t they always be unanimous?

    Also, if judicial committees are directed by God’s Holy Spirit, would they not always be unanimous in their decisions? And again if Holy Spirit has directed the decision, why allow for an appeal?

    Just wondering?

    • Pow says:

      Rob, I can answer that question for you, and it’s helpful if recall some fine 70’s music that really provides the answer. .remember meatloaf the artist? ..”cause two outta three an’t bad….

      Hope that helps.

    • dee says:

      @Rob
      Of course the GB is directed by Holy Spirit…………it just so happens that Holy Spirit only directs 2/3 of them! LOL!

  3. Actigall Ur says:

    You guys can write Brother James or Brother Slater at legaldept@jw.org and ask them if they’re still being advised to tell the courts that the “Faithful and Discreet Slave are not real” but “figurative” and thus cannot be held liable for litigation, and how much money they need to reserve in escrow for 8000+ child abuses cases. I’d say $9 billion. Nah, make that $11 billion just to be safe. Hmm you guys are making the Vatican blush!

    While you’re at it, ask them if they can sleep at night with a good conscience knowing what they are doing is immoral and unethical and if they still believe that “Jehovah” is directing this organization.

    • Pow says:

      Ouch !!!

      • Grace says:

        Actigall Ur,

        Wow is it really 8000 or more?

        I would really like to write them an email. I thought that the F&DS argument used in court was absolutely dishonest & disgusting when I read that. We should all do it.

        I would love write to my local paper (letter to editor section) to let people know (if they are interested) what questions to ask JW’s. I just haven’t come up with the right set of questions yet. I thought nothing confrontational just thought provoking gems that would make them think.

        My letter would go something like this:

        “Dear Editor,

        Jehovahs Witnesses come to your doors with the best intentions as they truly believe that they have the one true religion & that all other religions are controlled by satan. They are an honest genuine people that want the best for everyone & especially want to save people from death at Armageddon which will be very soon.

        I think that allowing them to answer the following questions would clear some misunderstandings by outsiders……”

        Example Question: (This is where I’m stuck on questions that doesn’t turn the JW reader away).

        • dee says:

          @Grace
          “………want to save people from death at Armageddon which will be very soon.”

          Just a suggestion:
          “………want to save people from death at Armageddon which THEY THINK will be very soon.”

          • Grace says:

            Yeah you’re right, although it’s hard to find the right words that doesn’t sound too apostate. So that they get to the questions.

    • Holly Chu says:

      Wow! I know figures are reaching very high for child abuse settlements and redress. I can only hope this news goes worldwide and is out on the media for all to see.

    • Meredith J says:

      Absolutely no surprise and that number is sure to grow because of their immoral code of justice. Really, anyone who is still in this cult should be careful that they don’t get caught up in all this litigation somehow as the GB push it all back on the congregations to fund their super scheme and claim that the little people are at fault and not them. You heard Geoffrey Jackson. He feels that all of this happened before he was around. Yeah right.

      • Meredith J says:

        I’ll bet at the moment they have their legal team working out a way so that they take no responsibility for the damage done. They’ll try and turn it around somehow. This is what they seem to have got away with in the past. JW.Org. No longer the Watchtower. Who thought of that brainwave? Hopefully, the wave of deserters will stop this from happening.

        • ruthlee says:

          vicarious liability THE GB will push it back on the trustees which means us who own real estate will get the bill so elders children and wives will be thrown to the dogs. I have proof I’m waiting on an article for the team to write to expand on this . We will see an evil scheme coming. All elders need to get themselves off the trustee list YOU have been warned.

    • Meredith J says:

      At least the Vatican acknowledges that they are at fault. This news should be spread far and wide that they believe they are not liable for any of this pedophile stuff. Wow, being in denial is even worse than what they have done and trying to wash their hands of it is absolutely disgusting. What is the word they always use? Abhorrent?

    • Pow says:

      I have a question, I’ve heard this number tossed around 8000. But if Australia which has 60k publishers, produced 1000 pedophiles (not victims or cases ), but pedophiles. How is it that the numbers don’t carry forward, as in the U.S. Branch is 15x larger then the Australian, therefore would they not be around 15000?,and the world wide number of publishers is 8x larger then that, so in less Australia had some kind of special unique situation, that would put the worldwide number well over 100 000.

      • BBC says:

        Suffer the little children documentary had insider information that said there were 27,000 pedo’s in the database. And that was 10 years ago….

        • Pow says:

          In regards to that, I would assume those numbers only relate to the U.S. Branch and they sound conservative to me This also makes me think of the adage “that it’s not the fall that kills you but the sudden stop”, likewise, it’s not pedophiles that are suing the society it’s their victims. And pedophiles are notrouis for muti-victims (think Bill Cosby, or that children’s t.v. personality from England ‘s B.B.C.)

      • Meredith J says:

        That’s because they do Pow. One of the main reasons why I left in late 2002 was because a couple from Brooklyn Bethel, you may have heard of them Joe and Barbara Anderson were disfellowshipped for leaking out exactly that information.

        Barbara had been working directly with the governing body when she came across a list which had 23,400 names on it. She found out that they were the names of all the reported pedophiles for the English speaking world. I do not fully remember the story of how she did it but she ended up blowing the whistle to the media.

        The person who was in charge of this list was a governing body member. I will not mention his name, even though he is deceased, just in case it gets Lloyd into any hot water. While this was going on, an elder called Bill Bowen was having to deal with the issue of pedophilia within his own congregation. He could not believe the pathetic way in which it was handled, so he recorded a phone call to Brooklyn Bethel. He also had a crisis of conscience and took it the media too. He was disfellowshipped also. This was all shown on American Dateline. He later established silentlambs.org to have a place of refuge for all those who had been sexually abused in the Watchtower.

        In the meantime, a woman claimed that the governing body member who was in charge of the “list”, had sexually abused her as a 13 year old but she was unable to prove it. She also was disfellowshipped and at the time she came forward, she was dying of cancer.

        • Meredith J says:

          (cont’d on) Her name was Pat Garza. Meanwhile a march was organised by Bill Bowen to protest about the situation, to make them change their ruling. The march was in 2002 where they walked a few blocks down to the Bethel gates.

          When the GB realised what was happening, they sent their ‘slaves’ down to lock the gates. The marchers, who consisted of victims and their families stood on the steps and they had a ceremony where they gave out courage awards. It was amazing. Afterwards they left toy lambs as a symbol of the lambs or the innocent victims of child sexual abuse. I’ll never forget it. And nobody knew about it except a few of us who were paying attention to the internet.

          So there is your answer Pow. Now that list has since ‘disappeared’ as a recent court case, failed to make it appear. I think it might have been Candace Conti.

        • Pow says:

          Yea Meredith Those numbers start to sound more plausible.

    • Actigall Ur says:

      A lot of you are asking if it is only 8000+ cases world wide and the answer is I don’t know. I am just repeating the number given to me by my source as the number of pending cases. There will be more I am sure, but many of them will be difficult to prove and many will not even go to trial. Even so, this should have never have gotten past ONE if this was really “Jehovah’s only organization.” Unless of course, Jehovah himself is a pedophile. At this point anything is possible. Remember, “Jehovah” commanded “his people” many times to kill innocent children and animals so we’re dealing with a sick, deranged individual.

      • dee says:

        @Actigall Ur
        “…..this should never have gotten past ONE if this was really “Jehovah’s only organization”.

        We were so brainwashed into believing that JWs are so different from the world and all other religions are Satanic and Oh what a spiritual paradise this is.

        Well welcome to the real world! Surprise, surprise. JWs are plagued by the same problems that plague other religions as well – child sexual abuse, domestic abuse, divorce etc.

        The JWs aren’t so superior to those other Satanic religions after all as the WT would like us to think – these things just don’t happen in Jehovah’s organization not.

        • dee says:

          When I used to be a JW and convinced that all other religions were evil and Satanic, someone once said to me: There is good and bad in all religions.

          At the time of course I was convinced that there couldn’t possibly be any bad in my religion, as this is Jehovah’s organization and JWs are so different from the rest of the world since God’s Holy Spirit would always act to keep the congregations clean.

          Maybe the Holy Spirit is a pedophile as well?

          • dee says:

            How ironic. It is the governmental system which the WT demonizes as evil and Satanic that now has to be rectifying the pedophile situation among the JWs.

          • Tara says:

            The reasoning used is the these ones are being shown up now for what they are – wheat and the weeds. They will put this as ‘new light’. a spiritual cleansing work going on. They will always find a way to write it off.

  4. Meredith J says:

    I just had another thought. As far as JW’s belief in how Christ died is concerned, I am definitely not convinced. They always claimed he died on a torture stake. This was something I found extremely hard to believe when I was studying.

    Every other church in the world believes that Jesus died on a cross. In fact if I was to wear a cross around my neck, I would be immediately regarded as a Christian. Yet, the obstinate Watchtower Society quashed all that.

    I even remember as a child reading about it in our old Encyclopedia Brittanica which was very precise. There was no mention of a stake. It has always been a cross. The things these men have degraded have to be relearned as a Christian. By their denial of this symbol, were they in fact adding weight to the spirit of the anti-Christ?

    • @Meredith J . Enjoyed your prior posts & very well written& reasoned.You are so right about about the torture stake fiasco . Rutherford got rid of the cross symbol from the Watchtower in the early 1930s.
      John 20v25 quite clearly shows the Greek word for ‘Nails’ in the hands is in the plural not singular. So Thomas was aware of more than one nail was used for Christ implement with the hands.
      But even more damning for the Watchtower organisation is that Simon of Cyrene had to have carried the ‘Patibulum’ which is Greek for crossbeam & weighed between 80 and120 Pounds
      In No Way could any man carry the stake which in the Greek is ‘Stipes’ which if only the stake was used any research would tell the GB this weighed between 175 pounds & 200 pounds! No man who had faced physical punishment or not could have carried the stake the approx 650 yards or about third of a mile to Golgatha ! Absolutely impossible .
      It was well known the Romans left the stake in the ground & made any criminal carry the Patibulum (crossbar ) & then tie the criminal to the crossbar & hoist him up onto the stake .
      Watchtower really know this but they would look extremely foolish if they backtrack now.
      Meredith , I hope this has been of help to you & can be printed off & shown maybe to any doubting JWs?
      I don’t know why but I feel we have exchanged comments before ?
      Anyway keep up the excellent comments which I so much enjoy. You are doing well !

      • @Meredith J . Apologies as I meant ‘Impalement’ not ‘Implement ‘ in my previous post.

        • Grace says:

          It was their point of difference which makes for a successful company:

          No pagan celebrations
          No symbols of worship
          No human leaders
          No Tithing
          Politically neutral

          See! we have the only “truth”. But when you pull back the curtain, they’re guilty of all of the above.

          • dee says:

            Companies, corporations differentiate themselves from their competition by finding a point of difference that will create a specialness about them in order to attract customers.

            The Watchtower has certainly mastered this tactic as well…….after all they are a corporation, so no surprise there.

          • dee says:

            ***a corporation dressed up as a religion.

        • Meredith J says:

          Thank you so much An Old Admirer for your well researched information. When it was related to me initially about the torture stake, it did not seem that strong an argument. It was one of those things you just bypass, which of course ends up being one of many bypasses that you do in your dealings with this mob.

          I am so glad you brought up about Simon of Cyrene and the cross beam, which the Watchtower never seems to talk about very much. Good point. And it was that freak Rutherford who got rid of the cross. That says it all.

          You know my husband and I left a long time ago, but I am so glad that I can speak about what made us leave, so that others can be helped in their answers about that period in the early 2000’s, which proves that the bad things they have done have not been improved upon. (what a long sentence)They have had their chance and they blew it. Hope you continue to speak as I am sure you also have a lot to say as you look beyond the obvious.

          • @ Meredith J. Well thank you for saying I look beyond the obvious . I think I have heard that somewhere else before? Anyway really pleased you & your husband got out which is good you have each other & that helps. Yes the child abuse cases & the way it is handled or should I say not handled is the most awful blight on the organisation which will soon catch up with them worldwide shortly not just Australia .
            Anyway thank you for saying you think I have more to offer in my comments . Maybe ,but only sparingly. As I have learnt , quite recently would you believe ?To think a bit before I comment.
            Amazing what you can learn in such a short space of time ?
            Well Meredith , hope the future goes well for you & your husband.

    • Man from the lions pit says:

      @meredith J …it’s old article…FYI
      http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/jesus-christ-died-cross-scholar/story?id=11066130
      all the best,

    • ruthlee says:

      Of course He died on a cross! Its the visible symbol that identifies a Christian and we have been denied that fundamental right to display our faith in that symbol. rl

  5. Pow says:

    I thought I would share this, hopefully it’s not too far off topic, the Elders just recived a letter the other day, not anything really news worthy, except for one point. The letter has to do with the way any exterior information board should refer to the meetings now. At the end of the short letter it states something to the effect of “if you incur expenses in regards to this change, it’s your problem, not ours”.
    Never seen that before, maybe since the branch raided everyone’s piggy banks, and set all congregations up a a permanent hall payment, some body’s evedently are under the mistaken impression that the society was now going to cover any additional cost over and above the utilities. Not!!!, that money so far has all flowed one direction. ..period.

  6. Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

    I have just scanned the “Correspondence Guidelines”; this is a real tool to create a “new world society” of “robots” not “other sheep”!!

    “We arranged to show a film about our worldwide preaching work, entitled The New World Society in Action, but the priest formed a mob to attack us. We immediately informed the police. When the priest and his mob of parishioners arrived at the theater, they were met by a solid wall of policemen with guns pointed at them. The large audience enjoyed the film immensely” (w14 9/1 p. 11)!

  7. tiger123 says:

    Enjoyed many of the comments as well as the well written article.

    I served at Bethel for a number of years and never heard of the book Correspondence Guidelines. Probably because us lowly Bethel members were given the Dwelling Together in Unity book to study, to make sure we knew the rules and structure of the Borg.

    In a corporate environment, rules and handbooks are a valuable tool and a necessary piece of any corporations legal defense in the event an employee or group of employees violates policy. However if Watchtower were to be as it claims, a Theocratic, or God directed organization, clearly the manual has already been written, it is the Bible. The need for interpretation is unnecessary as they are “spirit directed” or “spirit appointed” when administering its counsel and direction.

    As proof, Acts 5 gives the account of two people who sold a piece of property and held back from contributing the whole amount and lied about the sale. A committee was held and there is no record of the apostles consulting anything but holy spirit for their decision against Ananias and Sapphira. They were summarily killed by Holy Spirit and God was happy, the end. No books, no correspondence, no embellishing the short list of rules that exist in the Christian Greek Scriptures.

    The elders just need the accused in front of them, a prayer for Holy Spirit, which “God generously provides” and an undertaker for the guilty ones he kills. If Holy Spirit does not kill the guilty, then the Watchtower should be obligated not to kill any more trees in the printing of their books, right? Unfortunately not that simple.

    The book serves a dual role that is not so obvious. It provides transparency to the governments when needed as to Watchtower policy. This shields the Watchtower from the wildly different judgements that happen from one elder body to the next. If the “judicial” monkey trials are ever called into court and Watchtower is ever thought to be liable for an uneducated group of elders decisions, then they will be able to deflect liability off of themselves and directly on to the unsuspecting elders.

    The secrecy of the book allows Watchtower to change its policies as required by governments to align internally with government policy. If it were not secretive, when matters such as policies regarding child molestation were changed as a result of impending government action, the new resultant policies could not be twisted into “Theocratic or God directed” refinement or new light. They could not frame the media and “apostates” and say that they are liars if their previous policies were available for all to see. It would be obvious that God had nothing to do with the changes, rather it was the government that corrected them.

    As for Ray Franz’s comments about Gene Smalley and Robert Wallen. I had an epiphany. I worked with these men 20+ years ago in an assignment at Bethel. We were writing software for the writing department to be able to do research from the Bible and Watchtowers. The program was then called getverse. Both men were to say the least, unthankful and Gene Smalley was rude. He called one of the innovations of the most brilliant programmer to ever enter the doors of Bethel, “stupid.” It literally made me sick to my stomach. The dear man who wrote most of the software shrugged it off, he was focused on the day everyone could have use of this valuable research tool, but Smalley’s comment never left me.

    @ Gene Smalley, if you are still alive, bow tie and all. I know you were as they called it a “company man”. With good reason they were right. I have one question for you, who is the “stupid” one now? The brother who you said that about turned out to be the one responsible for WT Lib and its release. You selfishly wanted to keep it for yourselves so as to appear smarter than everyone else and as having holy spirit to accomplish the vast research the software is capable of. His initials are S.Q. and you know who I am talking about.

    After leaving Bethel in the late 80s S.Q. released a commercially available program that the elders gobbled up with the same enthusiasm as you did. They pirated tens of thousands of copies of your copyrighted publications and shared them with each other digitally. All disfellowshipping offenses because of theft of intellectual property. I had to laugh as I watched you self righteous manipulators get hamstrung by this “stupid” innovator. He forced you to give away your new found advantage that made you appear wiser than everyone else. What was amazing to me is how you issued letters trying to stop it, but it did not work. He won, he got what he always wanted, everyone had the program. He forced your hand and you had to give away Watchtower Library to everyone. Looks to me like Loyd just tipped your dirty little hand again. What will you do this time? Here is a suggestion, do us all a favor and buy a truckload of bow ties, that way if we are ever by Bethel we can play pin the bow tie on the idiots.

    Wow, now that felt good!

  8. Robert67 says:

    @elderfaded

    I asked one of my previous co’s how it was that Elders from Mexico who came into the U.S illegally are still elders here in the U.S? They are breaking federal laws in this country. I also inquired as to how it was that no one questioned these elders who become American Citizens through an oath TO this country and the defence of it aren’t questioned as to the compromising on their baptismal oath. The very same elders that pounce on the rank and file for the slightest failing. How is it that simply submitting paper work for legal status clears you in the gb’s eyes of the federal offenses you’ve committed, often as a baptized witness. These ursurpers of Christ place as mediator between God and man, nit pick at scripture to their convenience.

    • Searcher says:

      Good question! As part of the oath, the candidate for citizenship has to pledge allegiance to the US flag. Makes you go hmmmmm.

  9. Shane Longmiddle says:

    These fabricated rules are part of what helped me awaken to the machinations of this life draining cult. I wanted to share with you an article that points out the sheer ignorance of these self appointed semi gods. One of the things that allowed me to make it clear to my congregation that i was no longer drinking the bs kool aid was growing my beard in. I hope this article helps all men here that are looking for a way to deviate in some way from the false indoctrination, without violating any Bible principles you might hold up. As for everyone else who is done with all forms of religion, hope this helps to shine a light on the stupidity of the our former captors. I bet Tony Morris had no idea that modern clean shaven looks were pushed by the same “gay” fashion designers that design the tight pants he hates so much. In the beard community a running joke is “What do you call a person without a beard? Women and children and me who want to be women. Here is a bit of beard history.

    IS FACIAL HAIR WRONG?
    By George Cardenas

    There are some churches that teach that wearing a mustache or a beard is wrong, even bordering on sin. But before we label anything as sin let us see what the scriptures say.

    OLD TESTAMENT

    God gave instructions to Moses about what the Israelites could not do with their beards. (Leviticus 19:27) Then the priests were given the same instructions about what they could not do with their beards (Leviticus 21:5). This means that God expected the Israelites and the priests to have full beards.

    The Old Testament makes mention of the beard. Many Israelites wore them, including the High priest Aaron, King David, Mephibosheth, Amasa, Ezra the priest, and Ezekiel the prophet.

    Although there are no scriptures to prove it, the ancient Hebrews depicted Adam, Noah, Abraham and the prophets with lush beards

    From reading the Old Testament we can see that to the Israelites being shaven was considered a disgrace, a bad thing to happen.

    A SIGN OF MOURNING

    Shaving the beard was a sign of grief or mourning. (Iasiah 15:2)

    A SIGN OF JUDGEMENT

    Ezekiel shaved his head and beard to show the judgement of God. (Ezekiel 5:1-12)

    God cursed and brought punishment and shame upon people by predicting that their heads and beards would be shaven (Isaiah 7:20, Isaiah 15:2, Jeremiah 48:37) Shaving the beard was a sign of judgement.

    BEING SHAVEN WAS A DISGRACE

    So disgraceful it was considered to have the beard cut off, that some of the Orientals would prefer death to such a punishment.

    When the enemies of David wanted to show their contempt for David they shaved his servants. It was such a shameful insult that David then sent them unto Jericho to stay there until their beards were grown. Clearly it was such a grievous insult that David declared war against those enemies. (2 Samuel 10:4)

    We clearly see in this incident here that shaving their beards was a disgrace for the Israelites, it was so shameful that David’s men went into hiding to Jericho.

    As we can see beards were seen as something good in Old Testament times. There is no condemnation of it at all; on the contrary there was shame in shaving the beard.

    A TYPE OF CHRIST

    In the story of Joab and Amasa, the treachery of Joab was made more grievous by his act of grasping Amasa beard. It was a gesture of respect, but Joab used it for treachery. Just like when Judas kissed Jesus when betraying him. (2 Samuel 20:9-13)

    THE ORTHODOX JEWS

    Although no mention is given about other Old Testament biblical characters wearing beards besides those already mentioned it could safely be said that being good Orthodox Jews they wore beards.

    It is well known that throughout history the Orthodox Jews have honored the beard as a badge of manhood. To this day, the orthodox Jews have little respect for clean-shaven men. During periods of mourning, the ancient Jews allowed their beards to go untrimmed, but ordinarily their beards were trimmed regularly.

    To an Orthodox Jew having a beard is a sign of allegiance to God. Jesus without a doubt was a devout Jew.

    Although the New Testament never mentions it; it is well known from historical records that at the time of Jesus, the Jews usually wore beards, while the pagan Roman and Greeks went clean shaven. It was a clear and distinguishing characteristic of the Jews. Old carvings show clearly that the Jewish people in contrast to the Babylonians had beards.

    According to the Jesus Institute. In the first century most Jews were fairly small in stature, light-skinned but tanned from the sun. Most had black or brown hair worn long, and most men wore beards.

    According to Rabbi Berel Wein. In the first century, the Greeks and the Romans when men, especially nobility, were clean-shaven. The observant traditional Jewish males wore beards. Beards are seen as a mark of Jewish identity and as a physical link to Jewish tradition, lifestyle and its history.

    According to Unger’s Bible Dictionary: Among the Hebrews the beard was considered an ornament and was not shaved, only trimmed.

    Jews wore beards. Their hair reached down to the shoulders on men while the women wore hair down to the waist.

    The Talmud regards the beard as “the adornment of a man’s face” (BM 84a); a man without a beard was compared to a eunuch (Yev. 80b; Shab. 152a).

    Young priests whose beards had not yet grown were not permitted to bless the people (TJ, Suk. 3:14, 54a).

    Rabbinical authorities permitted only those who had frequent dealings with the Roman authorities to clip their beard with forceps (kom; BK 83a). Objection to the removal of the beard was on the ground that God gave it to man to distinguish him from woman; to shave it, was therefore an offense against nature (see Abarbanel to Lev. 19:27).

    JESUS

    Even Jesus our Lord and example had a beard. Being an Orthodox Jew he would keep the Levitical commandments. Jesus kept all the commandments of the law and one of them was to have a beard. Would Jesus go around disregarding a clear commandment from God?

    Jesus was our high priest and the high priest was explicitly commanded to have a beard, as such he too like Aaron had a beard.

    Moreover Isaiah 50:6 is a clear prophecy of Jesus speaking for himself. Unless you deny that the following is not a prophecy about him, this should settle this argument forever.

    Isaiah 50:6 I offered my back to those who beat me, my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard; I did not hide my face from mocking and spitting.
    New International Version (NIV)

    Isaiah 50:6 I gave My back to those who strike Me, And My cheeks to those who pluck out the beard; I did not cover My face from humiliation and spitting.
    Matt 26:67; 27:30; Mark 14:65; 15:19; Luke 22:63
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    Isaiah 50:6 I gave my back to those who struck me and my cheeks to those who plucked out the beard; I did not hide my face from shame and spitting.
    New King James Version (NKJV)

    Isaiah 50:6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to those who pulled out the beard; I hid not my face from shame and spitting.
    Revised Standard Version (RSV)

    The Description of Publius Lentullus, one of the earliest descriptions of Jesus says this about him. “His beard thickish, in colour like His hair, not very long, but forked;”

    The letter from Pontius Pilate to Tiberius Caesar “His golden colored hair and beard gave to his appearance a celestial aspect. He appeared to be about 30 years of age”

    The Emerald of Caesar. A very early painting has Jesus with a beard.

    The Acts of the Holy Apostles ascribe to him an olive complexion, a beautiful beard, and flashing eyes.

    A letter to the Emperor Theophilus describes Jesus as having a prominent nose, curling hair and a black beard.

    Nicephorus Callistus gives a description of Jesus as having a brown beard of moderate length.

    BADGE OF MANHOOD

    Man was created in the image of God, and having a beard is a part of that image. Men fight against that image every time that they destroy their facial hair.

    God made man and women, but only man has the ability to grow a beard. Facial hair clearly distinguishes a man from a woman. In this “unisex” world you can clearly tell from far away a man that has a beard from a woman. God gave facial hair to men as a special gift.

    Men have to shave everyday in order to remove a feature that clearly marks them as men, they are removing a sign of their masculinity, and they are purposely trying to erase a characteristic that distinguishes a man from a woman.

    MARKER OF ADULTHOOD

    Facial hair also serves another function. It sets apart men as men, and boys as boys!
    The beard is a sign of maturity. It gives authority to men as having reached a certain age of maturity. It is a distinct marker of adulthood.

    Its absence clearly indicates that a boy is not yet mature. He is not ready to assume leadership roles. Its presence indicates that it is time for the young man to start putting away childish things.

    It is almost a cliché in Hollywood that the old wise man, in the movie has to have a beard, they recognize that an old person has gone through many experiences that the young haven’t and that experience makes a person wise. What better represents wisdom? An old bearded man.

    IT IS NATURAL

    The beard is natural; man does not have to do anything to grow a beard. It is an intrinsicall part of his nature.

    Many blacks and some curly-haired whites can not shave because they have a medical problem known as pseudofolliculitis barbae (PFB), or “beard bumps,” and it resembles acne. The tiny beard hairs curl back and reenter the skin. Doctors call such hairs “bucket handles.” The simplest cure is to grow a beard.

    In nature God shows the beard as belonging to the male, just take a look at the lion, which wears a majestic and full mane, but the female lacks it. If you look around nature you will notice that the male of every species is distinct from the female by different physical characteristics.

    HISTORY

    For thousands of years a man’s beard was a sign of his royalty, wisdom, courage, and strength. Those with assertive, bushy beards were traditionally respected. Having a beard was considered the normal state of a man in most ancient cultures. Even kings were depicted in ancient carvings with beards. Until a few centuries ago, men swore by their beards

    In Nineveh men wore them curled and oiled, and often hardened them with perfumed gum and resin. Persians wove golden threads into them.

    In ancient Egypt, as well as Turkey and India, the beard was regarded as a sign of dignity and wisdom.

    In ancient Egypt, Egyptian kings wore the longest ones in their society, and high-ranking men and women would don fake beards of gold or silver for special festivals and celebrations. Queen Hatshepsut wore false beards as an equal of kings, and child kings wore fake golden beards.

    However later the Egyptians rejected hair as a bad thing. Their pagan priests used to shave their beards and their heads; they even shaved their bodies. They became different from other cultures in this aspect.

    THE GREEKS

    The Greeks at first were a culture that accepted beards; in fact a certain prominent Greek was defeated for office because his opponent had a more neatly trimmed beard. The Greeks despised clean shaven men, Diogenes mockingly asked the shaven, “What sex are you?” The Spartans punished the cowards by shaving half their hair and half their beard off.

    Statues of Zeus the greatest of all the Greek gods show him with a beard, so was Poseidon the God of the sea, and many of their other gods.

    The Greek philosophers were distinguished by their long beards as a sort of badge, and hence the term which Persius applies to Socrates “magister barbatus”. The Homeric heroes were bearded men.

    “There are two kinds of people in this world that go around beardless—boys and women, and I am neither one”.
    —Greek saying.

    In ancient Greek society, the growth of a beard marked the end of the stage when a boy might legitimately be the object of sexual advances from an older man. Many pictures in Attic vases show bearded man courting and giving presents to beardless young boys

    It was not unusual for homosexuals to shave their beard in order to continue their sexual lifestyle. A beard was also the distinction between the two major categories of performers, the juniors and the adults, in the Games

    The Greek changed with Alexander the great who shaved his beard, and also gave the order that his troops shaved so that the enemy could not grab their beards in battle. At first the ancient Greeks were shocked when Alexander the great shaved of his entire beard, but soon many other Greeks followed Alexander’s examples, and shaving soon became popular among the Greeks.

    OTHER HISTORICAL FACTS

    In the Middle Ages beards marked a man’s profession. A minister wore a style known as Cathedral, for instance, and a soldier had a beard called a Spade

    In 1535, England’s Henry VIII, who himself wore a beard imposed a beard tax.

    The practice of wearing a beard was common in Europe until about the 18th century, many kings and nobles used to wear them.

    When Peter the Great ordered his nobles to shave, it was shocking to the Russians. Later realizing the Jews would never shave, he imposed a tax on wearing a beard, so he could get some of their money. Yet some non-Jewish Russians were so attached to their beards they preferred to pay the special tax, rather than shave their beards.

    Every US president from Grant through Cleveland had facial hair.

    Some of the greatest men in history have worn facial hair, Lincoln, Roosevelt, Albert Schweitzer, Albert Einstein and many others.

    THE EARLY CHURCH

    In the first two centuries of the church it was considered womanly for men to shave. Men who shaved were considered as effeminates, which wanted to attract other men, or adulterers who wanted to attract other women besides their wives.

    Clement of Alexandria said “For God wished women to be smooth, and rejoice in their locks alone growing spontaneously, but has adorned man with a beard, and endowed him, as an attribute of manhood. This, then, the mark of the man, the beard, by which he is seen to be a man, is older than Eve, and is the token of the superior nature. In this God deemed it right that he should excel, and dispersed hair over man’s whole body.”

    St. Augustine of Hippo argued that: “The beard signifies the courageous; the beard distinguishes the grown men, the earnest, the active, the vigorous. So that when we describe such, we say, he is a bearded man.”

    “Men may not destroy the hair of their beards and unnaturally change the form of a man. For the Law says, “You will not deface your beards.” For God the Creator has made this decent for women, but has determined that it is unsuitable for men.” Apostolic Constitutions (compiled c.390, E) 7.392. (1)

    “The nature of the beard contributes in an incredible degree to distinguish the maturity of bodies, or to distinguish the sex, or to contribute to the beauty of manliness and strength.” Lactantius (c. 304-314, W), 7.288

    “The beard must not be plucked. ‘You will not deface the figure of your beard’.” [Lev 19:32] St. Cyprian, 5.553

    Although we all know that God is spirit and can not be seen, yet God has always been represented in paintings as a bearded man.

    Some of the early Pentecostal pioneers were men that had long beards. It is kind of ironic that men who had long beards founded some churches that now prohibit facial hair. If they were to resurrect and return to their churches they would be barred from even entering. Those were preachers who did not care to look pretty and primp for the pulpit.

    THE ORTHODOX CHURCH

    In Orthodox Christianity, beards are worn by the priesthood, and at times have been required for all believers. The Orthodox Church priests have always had beards. The Orthodox clergy wears beards because they want to physically resemble Jesus Christ.

    The Orthodox Church states. Concerning the sacred rules on the shaving of beards: The sacred rules likewise forbid all Orthodox Christians to shave their beards. For such is not an Orthodox but a Latin and heretical tradition . . . and the rules of the apostles and [church] fathers strictly forbid and denounce this.

    THE AMISH, MENNONITE, AND HUTTERITE

    In these sects the men wear beards because Jesus had a beard. When Jesus was crucified, they pulled on his whiskers, but since they recognize they are not perfect as Christ was, some do not wear a moustache as Christ did. This is their recognition that they are trying to be like Jesus but do not always live up to this ideal.

    Another reason they do not wear moustaches is because, in Europe in the old days, military men used to wear moustaches and since they are pacifists, they do not want to be identified with war in any way.

    A long beard is the mark of an adult.

    OPPOSITION TO BEARDS

    As we can see from the Bible, nature, history and common sense, the modern idea or teaching that men should be clean shaven is a legalism that actually goes against the word of God and the creation of God.

    Since the whole Bible never condemns beards but on the contrary teaches that shaving the beard was a sign of shame and judgment. From where does the doctrine that having facial hair is almost a sin, comes from?

    The opposition to facial hair has clearly emerged from a cultural setting and some personal dislike of it. Not from any biblical perspective. The New Testament makes no mention at all on this subject. So no position can be taken from this source.

    Some have used the sixties as their condemnation of facial hair, because during that time it was used as a symbol of rebellion. However it was always used in conjunction with long hair, which the Bible clearly condemns. That was over 40 years ago and today hardly anyone views mustaches and beards as a sign of rebellion. The hippies have moved on, their symbols have stopped having meaning. The fact that one group of sinners adopted for a short time a creation of God to symbolize their rebellion does not automatically makes it wrong.

    Preachers who teach that a man should be clean shaved do not seem to understand that they are just parroting other’s ideas, instead of studying the Bible and realizing that there isn’t a single scripture that teaches that doctrine. On the contrary there are plenty of scripture that support beards.

    BAD EXAMPLE

    Some have attempted to use Jeremiah 41:5 as their condemnation of beards, but if one reads the verse carefully one realizes that these men had also rent their clothes and cut themselves. Cutting oneself is clearly a pagan practice that is totally against the word of God. Leviticus 21:5-6. It is clear that these men who had shaved their beards and were cutting themselves going totally against the word of God and we are suppose to imitate their bad example?

    Furthermore it is not wise to take an isolated verse out of context and build a doctrine around it.

    EFFEMENIZATION

    One of the strange things of our times is the reversal of roles; men now shave to look fairer skinned like women. It is a sort of effemenization of men. But the Bible clearly says that the effeminate shall not enter into the Kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9
    Therefore Christian men should try to not to be or look effeminate.

    The beard may seem out of fashion in our modern society, but it is only because we have become a feminine society. Although men still rule society, all the new emphasis on men being sensitive, caring and nurturing shows that men are being pushed into accepting a more feminine role in society. Men are now told to assume roles that traditionally have been relegated to woman. No wonder they are being pushed into looking like women.

    NOW and all the other feminists organizations have pushed hard to effeminize men in order to claim equality with them. The manliness of a beard seems somewhat out of place in a society where men and women are equal. When men and women look similar then it is easier to say that they are the same.

    TRANSVESTITES HATE BEARDS

    Homosexuals and transvestites usually tend to disdain beards for it reminds them of their true nature. The beard that comes every morning constantly reminds them that unlike real women, they have to shave. It reminds them that no matter what they do they will always be men.

    Facial hair is a clear feature of men; I have yet to see a transvestite wearing facial hair. Not only is shaving one of the first things that transvestites do, but they go to great lengths to conceal any trace of facial hair. In order to get rid of facial hair they try every trick in the book, some even take hormones and endanger their health just to get rid of their facial hair.

    FEMINISTS HATE BEARDS

    A small point of sore indignation among the feminist community is that in olden times facial hair was taken as a sign of intelligence and wisdom. Since biologically they are incapable of producing one, feminists have argued that the ‘bearded lady’ in the past, who was regarded as a sideshow freak, was actually the ultimate gesture of girl-power.

    THE CATHOLIC CHURCH REJECTED BEARDS.

    It is interesting that the Roman Catholic goes contrary to the Old Testament teachings on beard and hair. For they make round cuttings in their head and shave their beard, things which God prohibited the priests of God. The Roman Catholic Church imported those customs from the heathen priests of the roman pagans.

    In the 11th Century an Anathema was pronounced by Cardinal Humbert against the Patriarch of Constantinople because the Easter Orthodox Church following the teachings of the Bible wore beards while the Roman clergy shaved.

    Up until recently Catholic priests were actually forbidden to wear beards.

    THE REAL SOURCE OF THIS OPPOSITION

    Could it be that this doctrine opposing facial hair comes from the same place that others do? From Satan himself who wants to erase the God given distinction between a man and a woman. Satan has whispered in the feminist’s ears that men and women are the same, but that pesky beard is a clear reminder that they are not.

    The devil wants to erase the distinction between the ages. He wants to blur or erase this distinction between boys and men, in order to create a culture of disrespect for grown men by boys. He wants to have men in perpetual adolescence. He wants to make us believe that we are going to live forever if we paint our hair and shave our beards to look younger.

    SHAVING IS DONE FOR VANITY

    Some women say that men look more handsome without facial hair, but that is just their opinion. Let us remember that God judges not the outside appearance, but the inside. Maybe in our society clean shaven man are looked as more presentable and clean, but if other men want to look pretty, beautiful and effeminate, we do not have to follow suit.

    Men who will not wear a beard because it makes them look older or less attractive are simply giving themselves over to vanity! They want to appear younger in a youth culture. The beard is a sign of maturity, if it gets a few gray hairs, let them be.

    A REJECTION OF CREATION

    When a man shaves his facial hair he is saying to the creator “I don’t like how you made me!”, “God you made a mistake that I am going to correct with a blade”. If God did not want us to have facial hair then why did he created it?

    Shaving is a rejection of the wisdom of God in giving us a beard. We are saying that God did not know what he was doing when he gave the man a beard. God in his infinite wisdom was not smart enough to realize that beards are not needed by men.

    SOCIETY STANDARDS

    Society has now decreed that it prefers men without beards, but society never sets the standards on what is right or wrong, God does. Let us not be pleasers of men or society, but let us please God.

    Some men and woman have even become convinced, all logic aside, that the hairless look is the more manly one.

    BUSINESS IMAGE

    Some corporations ask their workers to shave, so that they are more presentable and acceptable to other people. They want to present a favorable image to the public, yet some of these same corporations cook the books, cheat their workers, and have many shady dealings. Their clean image is only a front to fool the public.

    The fact that some people in the corporate world or in other areas prefer men without facial hair does not make it a sin, for it is God who sets the standards on what is sin.

    CONCLUSION

    There is no scripture or commandment saying that we must not have a beard in order to be saved and neither is there a scripture that says you must have one in order to be saved, for our salvation is in Christ our lord. Whether a person has a beard or not is a matter that should not be legislated by any church.

    Let us beware, lest we do like the Pharisees and substitute the doctrines of God for commandments of men. Yes it was mandatory during the times of the law to wear a beard, but Jesus has fulfilled the law and now we have freedom in Christ. So let us have freedom in this area, everyone according to his own conscience. We are free from the law through Christ.

    Although I strongly encourage my Christian brethren to accept this precious gift from God and to wear their beards or moustaches with solemnity, and grace. I do not think is a sin to not wear one, since we are not longer living under the law. So no it is not as sin to shave either.

    If you have a job that requires you that you do not have a beard, then at least have a moustache, but if that is not possible in your profession, then you may shave without feeling any sense of guilt.

    God looks in the inside not on how pretty you look in the outside. It may be true or it may not be true that men look better without facial hair, but that should not matter. God gave us facial hair, and if you are going to wear one then do so with manly pride and make sure to keep your beard clean, combed, and neatly trimmed. We must still be and look dignified not like a homeless bum in the street.

    The Christian men are followers of Christ and as such it behooves us to become the image of Christ. Jesus wore a beard and we can follow his example, without shame or reproach.

    Just like the priests of the Old Testament wore beards to symbolize their special calling, we can wear a beard to symbolize our commitment to our holy calling.

    We do not condemn nor shun Christian brethren, who teach against beards because we feel that they do it out of ignorance of what the word of God teaches. We just pray that God will open their eyes to this ancient Christian tradition.

    1. Beards are biblical
    2. Holy men of old wore beards
    3. Jesus our Lord wore a beard
    4. The early church encouraged beards
    5. Beards clearly identifies a person as a man
    6. Beards distinguishes a man from a woman
    7. Beards distinguishes a man from a boy
    8. Beards are a wall against perversion (Homosexuals & transvestites)
    9. Beards are a natural gift from God
    10. Historically and culturally men have worn beards

    DISPENTATIONS

    If a Christian is persecuted for wearing a beard, he should stand up for his rights; if his life is in danger then he may shave until persecution has ended. Of course there are times when a dispensation of wearing a beard has to be done. Such times are only to be done for necessary reasons not for vanity or to please an unbelieving person.

    Christian men should forbear wearing beards when there are serving in the military or law agency. The military out of necessity requires that men be shaven so they can use gas masks and also to keep hygiene, discipline, moral and a civilized ambient.

    Other reasons are hygienic, sanitary or safety reasons. These are reasons where harm could be caused to others by the keeping of this ancient tradition. There are some jobs that require that a person be clean shaved, like being a cook or working in the food service industry. Another field is medicine, where workers are required the utmost of cleanliness for the patient’s sake. If a Christian has a job which requires that he be clean shaven, then as long as he has that job he should shave without feeling any sense of guilt.

    A Christian can shave for an emergency, health reasons, or for mourning. If during trimming of the beard a mistake is made try to fix it, if the problem is not fixable, then just shave the beard and let it all grow back again.

    Sorry, a bit long. Hope it helps anyone who is being forced into a beard closet by these simpletons in Brooklyn or in any other place.

    Cheers to all and kudos on that fine beard Mr.Evans

    • Pow says:

      I believe the reason we prohibit beards, (keep in mind c.t.Russell, Van Amberg and others had them.) Was the mistaken view that beards contributed to the spread of the spainish influenza. But, somehow, it in time became a law, like wearing denim, ties, suits, no pants suit for women, in another word once again a cautious suggestion morphs into bible-trumping modern day law.

    • Reader says:

      Very well written, defended every bristle.
      Removed from public talk list because of mine, even though by that time the beards were back in illustrations -pre 95.
      Good for year round outdoor workers.
      11. All Bible penmen [with only one possible eception] were bearded.

  10. ruthlee says:

    “OH horrible”.To quote Hamlet rl

  11. Caroline (formerly anonymous) says:

    @Holy Cannoli, I think one of the reasons why marriages in the Watchtower don’t work well is because the men running the Watchtower are living in the dark ages when it comes to how women are to be treated. You can see that when you read through the correspondence guidelines. The men are taught that they are the “head of the house” and they take that job really seriously.

    There shouldn’t be anything wrong with that concept but a lot of them think they have to “rule” over their households with an iron fist, even though the Society says they aren’t to do that but it’s a double-edged sword.

    The men are responsible for what their wives and children wear, what they say and what to do. Women are treated as children under the “head” of the house instead of an equal partner. Men feel like they have to treat their wives that way or they think they will be looked down on by the other men in the congregation. It’s an unwritten rule.

    Women are taught to dumb down themselves as per what the Governing Body members say in their talks. Women are never to look smarter than their husbands and that can cause an awful lot of friction when the man makes stupid mistakes and she is not allowed to say thing to make him look stupid or weak.

    The women have to pretend to like being under “subjection” of their husbands, even if they hate it. The whole family will look bad if the kids and the wives don’t pretend like everything that comes out of the husband’s mouth is gold. That works for really stupid women, but for women who don’t like faking it, they will resent being in a marriage like that eventually.

    It is so fake and at some point, the family can’t take it anymore because they think if they have to live the rest of their lives like that, it just isn’t worth it.

    • dee says:

      @Caroline
      “……….she is not allowed to say things to make him look stupid or weak”.

      I think that that is just the nature/culture of the JW religion. Sisters are not allowed to correct brothers. It’s just not allowed.
      I recall that when I was new to the religion, a brother made a comment during the Q&A portion of the service meeting. Realizing that his comment was wrong, I corrected his error in my subsequent comment.
      I suddenly started to feel an air of uneasiness around me from the persons sitting around me. After the meeting, I was told that a sister does not have the right to correct a brother, this despite the fact that I wasn’t baptized at the time so I wasn’t even a sister, and of course all of this was unknown to me given my newness to the religion.

      On another occasion, during a book study, I expanded on a point made by a brother in order to clarify his statement for the benefit of others so that the point would be understood. I was then told after the meeting that I was teaching the congregation and sisters aren’t allowed to do that (I was baptized at that time).

      On a related matter – when conducting a bible study in the presence of a brother while out in field service, I was told that I had to wear a head covering to show my subjection and recognition of God’s ordination of man as head in spiritual matters and that a woman does not have authority over a man in spiritual matters in keeping with 1 Cor.11: 3-16; this despite the fact that I was not married to the brother who accompanied me on the bible study.

      The culture of the religion is to keep the woman in her place.

  12. Chris says:

    I heard brothers in the service department who dealt with judicial cases and correspondence say it was the worst assignment in Bethel. I can understand why. It must be soul-destroying to regurgitate this pharasaic, one-size-fits, fortune cookie wisdom while people on the receiving end sob for some reasonableness. It can’t be life-affirming to act as a conduit for cult mind control, and by what those people have admitted, it really isn’t.

  13. Wip it says:

    Yep got a copy, the rules behind the rules behind the rules behind the rules, interesting reference on beards, i will check them later

    • Robert67 says:

      As far as the general rank and file goes, this is all the Insight to Scripture book states on the subject of beards.
      BEARD
      The hair growing on a man’s chin and cheeks, sometimes including that growing on the upper lip. In the Hebrew Scriptures, za·qanʹ is the word for “beard,” while sa·phamʹ, pertaining to the lip, is variously rendered by translators as “beard,” “mustache,” and “upper lip.” In a few instances the word za·qanʹ refers not to the beard but to the “chin.”—Le 13:29, 30; 14:9.

      Among many ancient peoples of the East, including the Israelites, a beard was cherished as an evidence of manly dignity. God’s law to Israel prohibited the cutting off of the “sidelocks,” the hair between the ear and the eye, and the extremity of the beard. (Le 19:27; 21:5) This was doubtless because among some pagans it was a religious practice.

      During extreme grief, shame, or humiliation, a man might pluck hairs from his beard, or he might leave the beard or the mustache untended. (Ezr 9:3) It may have been the untended beard of Mephibosheth, son of Jonathan, that indicated to David that Mephibosheth was perhaps telling the truth when he said that his servant Ziba had slandered him, and that Mephibosheth was actually mourning while David was a refugee from Absalom, contrary to what Ziba had reported. (2Sa 16:3; 19:24-30) The removing of the beard illustrated calamity or great mourning because of calamity.—Isa 7:20; 15:2; Jer 48:37; Eze 5:1.

      After the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E., men from Shechem, Shiloh, and Samaria expressed their distress by shaving their beards, ripping their garments apart, and cutting themselves. Even though they were bringing offerings to the house of Jehovah, they were bloodless offerings, apparently to be offered at the place where the temple had been. (Jer 41:5) That the practices of these men were not fully in harmony with the law of God is shown by the fact that they made cuts upon themselves, a practice sternly prohibited by the Law.—Le 19:28; 21:5.

      The importance of the beard and its being well groomed played a part in the attitude of Achish the king of Gath toward David when the latter disguised his sanity by letting his saliva run down upon his beard. This served to help convince King Achish that David was insane. (1Sa 21:13) Later, when Hanun the king of Ammon grossly insulted David’s ambassadors by cutting off half their beards, David sympathetically told his men to stay in Jericho until their beards grew abundantly again. The Ammonites knew that it was a signal insult to David and that they had become foul-smelling in his eyes over the incident, and so they prepared for war.—2Sa 10:4-6; 1Ch 19:1-6.

      It was customary for men to wear beards, even before the Law covenant was made. While the Hebrews did not make monuments with figures of themselves, many monuments and inscriptions have been found in Egypt, Mesopotamia, and other Middle Eastern lands, in which the Assyrians, Babylonians, and Canaanites are pictured with beards. Even some representations dated as far back as the third millennium B.C.E. show beards of varying styles. Among the above-named peoples, eunuchs were mainly the ones depicted beardless. The making of eunuchs was not a practice in Israel, however, because the Law excluded eunuchs from the congregation of Israel.—De 23:1.

      Since most Semites are pictured as wearing beards, even prior to the time of the Law, it would logically follow that the faithful men of the line of Shem, who continued to speak the language of Eden and who doubtless followed more closely the original customs from the time of their forefather Shem, possessed beards. Consequently, there is good reason to believe that Noah, Enoch, Seth, and Adam likewise were bearded men.

      Herodotus (II, 36) says the Egyptians shaved the hair both of the face and of the head. For the men it was a sign of mourning or of slovenliness to let the hair and beard grow. For this reason Joseph, when taken out of prison, shaved before being brought into the presence of Pharaoh. (Ge 41:14) However, false beards as well as wigs were worn by the Egyptians.

      Did Jesus, when on earth, wear a beard? Certainly it was a custom strictly held by the Jews. Jesus, born a Jew, “came to be under law” and he fulfilled the Law. (Ga 4:4; Mt 5:17) Like all other Jews, Jesus was dedicated to Jehovah God from his birth, by reason of the Law covenant, and was under obligation to keep the whole Law, including the prohibition on shaving the extremity of the beard. Also, at the time that Jesus was on earth, the Roman custom was beardlessness. Therefore, if Jesus had been beardless, he would have been challenged as being either a eunuch or a Roman. Significantly, a prophecy concerning Jesus’ suffering states: “My back I gave to the strikers, and my cheeks to those plucking off the hair.”—Isa 50:6.

      In not Roman, am I a Eunoch?

  14. Catalina says:

    To an old admirer,
    It’s so true we have to think a bit before we comment. I work at a salt production plant. At my job my line driver (a female forklift driver) said to a manager “someone needs to run that man ( a coworker) over with a forklift.” The Manager walked her out the door and fired her for saying it. It’s been over a year and she’s still fired. What she said would have been funny if she hadn’t gotten fired. Another time a co worker said in Spanish my butt reminded him of children’s pompers. I speak english so I didn’t know what he had said. The boss heard what he said and pulled him into her office. I didn’t know what was going on. As my coworker passed me he said, “I’m sorry Kathy” as he walked by and I didn’t know why. Our supervisor pulled him into her office fussed at him and gave him a warning, she understood spanish. My coworker felt terrible. I told him don’t worry, it’s all gonna be good. We didn’t know the boss speaks spanish. We know now. Words can get you fired or thrown off a website. Everyone I know uses more self control than they speak than they used to before because we live in a sensitive world. That really is a good point about the cross. It makes sense that’s what the stake was used for. I’m glad I found this website.

    • Catalina says:

      I need to add he was talking about children’s pompers that has ruffles and look like they are blown up with air. (children’s underwear) It would have been funny if he hadn’t gotten into trouble.

    • @Catalina. Thank you for your comment. I really like your illustration . You show good insight into situations . Also it was sweet of you to commend me on the point about the ‘Cross’ .
      Yes you are right that this website helps a lot of people. There are many here who have been genuinely damaged by the deep emotional hurt & pain inflicted by the Watchtower organisation .
      So yes this site is good that they can converse & comfort one another . One comment I read I believe from Tara where she felt ‘so lonely’ which I think many feel when ostracised from family & friends which I must admit is very cruel .
      I see you are good friends with Meredith & others here which is helpful to each of you .
      Another person who does care a lot about you all is a decent kind person who has a good heart is JB Reezner. I really know this website means a lot to him & the people on it . Look after him .
      Anyway take care Catalina .

      • Meredith J says:

        An Old Admirer, I just wanted to say how important your point was about thinking before we comment too. I need to take a leaf out of your book. It is so wise to do this, especially when we cannot delete what we have already written. There are a few things on here, which I do have some regret over.

        Before I became a Witness, I remembered a passage from someone called Omar Kayyam. It kind of goes like this “The moving finger writes and having writ moves on. And not all thy tears, nor all thy wit can cancel even a word of it or to lure it back to cancel half a line.” I need to do that too. Thanks for the reminder.

        • @Meredith J . You & Catalina are 2 very sweet kind ladies. As also many on this site are . But the the person I was thinking of was a certain PB by looking at his or hers previous comments ,who is no longer with us ,& I believe he has many regrets in his life where he or she could have taken back what was said.
          I was in no way referring to you as you have been a really outstandingly kind, understanding person which I can learn from .
          All the best.
          An Old Admirer

        • Meredith J says:

          Yes, I think of PB too. He might come back you never know. Hopefully, things will go better for him. He needs to break free though even if it hurts.

  15. Baccolo says:

    Not so off-topic….

    In Australia will the WBTS become an issue of electoral campaigning?

    see: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-27/labor-pledges-payments-for-sex-abuse-survivors/6886864

    What about the politically illiterate publishers while knockin’ the doors?

    What about the australian voters/taxpayers?

    • Kaput says:

      Article states:
      “On top of that, it calls on the federal and state governments to set aside $613 million for “funder of last resort” funding, which would be required when responsible institutions no longer exist or have no assets.”

      To quote Jimi Hendrix:
      “All along the watchtower, princes kept the view
      While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too
      Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl
      Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl”

      Ride on riders!

  16. Tara says:

    BY ORDER OF THE HIGH INQUISITOR OF BETHEL

    Any minion found in possession of
    Guidelines for Correspondence. Will be expelled.

    The above is in accordance with
    Watchtower Decree One hundred, forty four thousand.

    Signed T.M. III

  17. peely says:

    Ray Franz – “…any person who occupies the position of congregational elder, traveling overseer or Branch committee member knows that the manual’s contents form no mere guide BUT HAVE THE FORCE OF LAW.”
    “These policies are, in fact, treated with the same respect as if they were direct statements from Scripture, divine law”

    “Listen, you heavens, and I will speak; hear, you earth, the words of my mouth.
    Let my teaching fall like rain and my words descend like dew, like showers on new grass,
    like abundant rain on tender plants.” Deut 32:1,2
    “ he said to them, ‘Take to heart all the words I have solemnly declared to you this day, so that you may command your children to obey carefully all the words of this law. They are not just idle words for you – THEY ARE YOUR LIFE. By them you will live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to possess.’ Deut 32:46,47

    “Stay away from those Pharisees! They are like blind people leading other blind people, and all of them will fall into a ditch.” Matt 15:14

    “You must obey God’s commands better than the Pharisees and the teachers of the Law obey them. If you don’t, I promise you that you will never get into the kingdom of heaven.” Matt 5:20

    You blind leaders! You strain out a small fly but swallow a camel. Matt 23:24

    “And so, each of us must give an account to God for what we do.” Rom 14:12

    “Don’t fall into the trap of being a coward— trust the Lord, and you will be safe.” Prov 29:25

    “We won’t dare compare ourselves with those who think so much of themselves. But they are foolish to compare themselves with themselves.” 2 Cor 10:12

    “Jesus said to him, ‘Away from me, Satan! For it is written: “Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.” Matt 4:10

    • Pow says:

      Bible says….you must not cut your side locks short,…. (no longer applicable ). In fact cut those side burns off along with that beard or else, no baptism for you, and if your not baptised by the g.t. as a jdub then everlasting cutting off, So in summery if you follow Bible’s advice….you die.

      • Mrlett says:

        I’m sorry friend Peely, but our organization only recognizes those antiquated scriptures in passing. The Watchtower Bible and Tract society has improved on Gods lacking word the Bible by adding and tweaking any scripture that goes against the society. We regret that Mr.Evans revealed our latest addition, the sixty seventh book of the Bible before we released it ourselves.

        Since the cat is out of the bag

        We proudly present to you new light in the form of book sixty seven of our silver sword edition of the Bible, the book of OPINIONS (applause) otherwise known as corresponding guidelines. (more applause) we hope that with this book of Opinions many will come to kneel before the Governing body, their future kings over the Earth. (standing ovation) (kool aid cups passed down each row)

        • dee says:

          The writing of the 67th book of the Bible is giving earth’s future kings a.k.a. the GB some practice. They certainly will not be rookies when it comes to the writing of those “new scrolls” (Rev 20:12) which will be opened in the new system.
          It will be raining kool aid like crazy from the heavens then I’m sure. LOL!

  18. dee says:

    @Robert67

    Another book for your booklist:
    -Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah’s Witnesses-
    Don’t know if you have read this one as yet.

    Cheers.

    • Robert67 says:

      I ordered it today, thank you. I found this and watched it the whole way through. If any witnesses on the fence want to know if the elders, building committees and “professionals” used by the WT lie to get what they want, well your in for a treat. You’ll be hearing a lot more about this documentary in months to come.

      http://youtu.be/rt9xI0R9kvY

  19. Caroline (formerly anonymous) says:

    On page 98 under sexual conduct, it calls oral sex “perverted”. That really bothers me that they are saying that because the wife will probably never have an orgasm since it is almost impossible for a woman to have one through regular intercourse.

    So, according to those dirty old men in Brooklyn, the woman is there just to please her husband and that’s all she’s good for.

    They have no business deciding that for a couple. That is going beyond what the scriptures say and they don’t care.

    They are simply clueless.

    • SIRIUS says:

      Kinda reminds me of another so-called faith. There, females are both deficient in intelligence(witnesses needed to establish truth) and deficient in religion(unclean because of the monthly menstruation cycle, can not pray).

      Since practicing JW Elders are so concerned of their public image by their flock do they witness what does on in bedrooms too?

      IMHO

      dogstar

      • Robert67 says:

        Here in Puerto Rico we have a new Circuit overseer we will just refer to his initials RP who treats his much, much younger wife as if she were a child. All he has to do is give her that evil look and you can see genuine fear in this poor woman. While we’re on the subject, why doesn’t anyone blink an eye at all of these mid life pedo marriages. How can you marry someone who wasn’t alive when you were already an adult and what these pedo protectors worry about is dress and biblically approved, even demanded facial hair.

        • Excelsior! says:

          Robert67,

          If both marriage mates are of legal age, then it is up to them what they do.

          However, I agree with your point about the particular prevalence of older men marrying women who could be their daughters in the WTBTS.

          I think it is part and parcel of their contempt for women. They are simply either a status symbol, a breeding cow, a scullion or a necessary accessory for a “spiritual man”.

          Peace be with you, Excelsior!

          • Tara says:

            Because there are very few men the same age as most women. I am in my 40’s and have been alone since my ex left me. The only men available in this area are all over 60 who have, sadly, lost their wives. Sorry but I don’t want to marry a man who cannot keep up with me. That’s a personal thing. Now from what we have seen/read on here any guy who is over 23 and not an MS is bad news for single sisters…. So, if I want to marry, I have been told to go and scout out other congregations and basically act like a cougar. Nope not cheapening myself for one and for another… how many single sisters can afford to travel miles and miles to look for a guy. As it is there is a really nce, young mechanic in the area who is interested lol and no he’s not a witness 😉

        • Idontknowhatodo says:

          Like Geoffrey Jackson……

    • MimiLove says:

      you need to watch the youtube video of Sam Herd….talk about irritating! He basically says the purpose of a woman is to please her man.

    • Excelsior! says:

      Great point, Caroline.

      I think the female orgasm makes these clueless, sexist idiots’ brains spin! They never encourage women or men to explore their sexuality. Sex is for the man’s pleasure and for breeding.

      Peace be with you, Excelsior!

  20. Excelsior! says:

    Folks,

    An Old Admirer is none other than that master of deception PB!!!

    Notice the constant flattery of Meredith J and others, exactly the same modus operandi as PB.

    He was also Aphrodite on the previous article to this one!

    This goes out to PB, Aphrodite and An Old Admirer

    You are not as clever as you seem to think you are. I see right through you. I always have.

    Unfortunately, I have met many people like you in my life. I am not impressed with your manipulative and unscrupulous abuse of people on this site. Meredith J and others deserve to be treated with honesty, not flattered by a lying, self serving fantasist.

    Do yourself a favour. Stop lying to people by assuming all these aliases. If you want to post here, then choose one name and one email address and stand by your comments.

    And when you insult someone, by, say, calling them a fathead etc etc etc, apologise unreservedly and immediately.

    I hope that you will stop this course of action and apologise to us all, but especially to Meredith J and Catalina, for deceiving them yet again with a false name and your nauseating flattery.

    Folks, please look out for this series of characters. He/she is a dangerous and untrustworthy individual.

    Peace be with you, Excelsior!

    • Meredith J says:

      Well, well Excelsior, that is a rather astounding revelation that PB may be An Old Admirer. If you are right then I have been deceived, although we all have the opportunity to turn over a new leaf. And if you are wrong then it could be a mean accusation. To tell you the truth the name is a little off putting and I was going to tell him so but I didn’t get around to it. But he said nothing offensive. I just felt that I didn’t deserve the compliments that I got. He may have meant them. I try and give people the benefit of the doubt. But of course you could be right. Whatever, it doesn’t trouble me.

      I’m just feeling that a stronger force wants me here to help or console or encourage. You probably feel the same. I don’t want to be blown up as anything that I am not, because I am not that’s for sure. I am just an ordinary person who left the truth a lot earlier than some others on here and this might be helpful to some. I have made some lovely friends here and I am sure that this is a good place to be for some who have no other place to go to say stuff.

      • Excelsior! says:

        Meredith J,

        There is no doubt that An Old Admirer and Aphrodite were PB. It has been confirmed to be true by Lloyd. I would not have posted if I was not first certain.

        I praise your desire to give PB a chance to turn over a new leaf. I too, would like to see this disturbing individual mend their ways and do better.

        Peace be with you, Excelsior!

  21. Catalina says:

    Meredith, Caroline, Holy Connoli, My JW landlord’s husband is an elder and offered to study the bible with my husband today after they had a conversation about Joseph in the bible. Thank god my husband said no. Thank god. But I feel nervous. We live in a senior citizen apartment complex and my husband visits them. I’ve never outwardly turned my back on the truth before and I want to do it peacefully. I don’t want to alienate my landlord. I’m not sure how to handle this. Even though I read the guidelines document three times I’m still not sure what action can be taken against me. My landlord knows I was seeing my husband before I married him. I can’t tell how much trouble I’m in according to the guidelines document. What can I expect? I’m nervous. That elder rushed up to me yesterday acting very concerned, he asked me how I’m doing. I answered, fine, I enjoy being a newlywed, and like being left alone. He asked me if he and another elder can come by and visit me for encouragement. I said no I dont want a visit. I had to keep saying no. He pressed it. What can I expect. I cant tell from the guidelines document.

    • Tara says:

      Catalina, my friend married out of the ‘truth’ and the gave a marking talk. No names mentioned but it was obvious it was her. She wasn’t shunned but was def. made to feel uncomfortable. They would talk to her at the hall but she was not spoken to outside of it nor was she invited to any ‘get togethers’. She may as well have been shunned for the way she was/is treated. Be prepared for a marking talk but I don’t think you would be df’d.
      Not much comfort I know. You have us if that counts 🙂

      • Tara says:

        PS… I get to meet the elders this week too. For a little chat.

        • Excelsior! says:

          Tara,

          Don’t forget to follow Excelsior’s patented Elder defender!

          Praise “Jehovah God’s spirit directed Organisation”

          Flatter the Elders, and tell them how spiritual and caring they are.

          Do not mention any negative truths about the WTBTS.

          Make up an excuse for your absence that does not require too many details.

          If you follow this patented course, you should be just fine!

          You owe these elders nothing. Use your insider knowledge to your advantage.

          All the best of luck for your meeting!

          Peace be with you, Excelsior!

      • Catalina says:

        Tara, That info helps me a lot. I was so concerned I hung around online waiting for an answer. I’m being a coward. I feel stupid. I want to move. My landlord is impressed with my husband and offers him a bible study because he really is such a nice man. I’m letting it get under my skin. Thank you Tara your answer helps a lot. Thanks

        • EverydayExplorer says:

          Catalina and Tara, perhaps you can just keep putting these over-persistent (bullying and nosey) elders off. As Wip it says below, you can use physiological excuses every now and then. Plus there are all sorts of daily life commitments that can be cited. If you feel you’d rather get their officious talk over with (and remember these elders have no authority over you, either legally or spiritually), then maybe make the time of the ‘talk’ (undue influence session) as helpful to you as possible. For example, if either of you are morning people, have that ‘talk’ extremely early.

          I really feel for you both — no-one deserves to be bullied like this; you have the right to be treated with respect; you are the best judge of yourselves and your unique characters and spirituality. Sending you both lots and lots of positive vibes and tons of respect.

          • Tara says:

            Thanks EE. I’ve been putting this off for ages. So just biting the bullet now. I’ve a good mind to record it somehow, as they are coming to my place. It is intimidating having them call you up at work or trap you in a corner of the KH. with their greasy smiles. It’s so hard though because my ex daughter in law will try to stop my connection with my grandchild if I get df’d plus my daughter has just been reinstated so she can fade out – she wanted to be able to talk to her friends again…. no other reason. I’ll let you all know how it goes. Knowing me I will give them a mouth full of JWSurvey truth because I have trouble lying. Lol I even put a false report in for service this last month. I haven’t been out but I talk to you lot on here so I gave them an hour….

  22. Wip it says:

    Catalina, just tell them you have a medical condition, you can make one up, i don’t want to say which one to use as i don’t want to offend, i know what i would use though,

    • Catalina says:

      Wip it, I never understood why worldly people hated jws so much when we came to their doors. I didn’t understand how manipulative we were or how dumb we sounded. I’m done. For me, manipulation by JWs brings on an unhappy life. That guidelines Document is all about manipulation and at it’s worst. It helps me a lot to see it in black and white because if it isn’t in writing than it’s just not so. And for crying out loud, talk about playing mind games. That’s all they do. The guidelines document proves that. I’m glad to be free. Even though I miss my family I can never go back.

      • Robert67 says:

        I’m so glad more and more people are awakening to this publishing powerhouse scam. This specific article has helped me almost fully awaken, yet another friend. I cannot thank the sources of these leaks enough, you are truly doing Gods work. Hopefully not all will develop a phobia of anything related to scripture. After the initial shock and disbelief at the blasphemic criminal actions of this organization are revealed to be undeniable, some might never be able to give their creator unquestioning loyalty, as it has been conditioned out of them, this too will fall against this cult and its leaders in Gods eyes.

        I hope everyone visiting this site is keeping a journal, electronic or physical of what this and other sites expose about the JW cult, there are no guarantees as to how long any of them will be available. I also hope some who still hold a love and zeal for scripture will be able to use this in a way that helps friends that will only bypass WT doctrine if proved with scripture as was in my case.

        I just learned of the recent changes to the jwpodcast that Mr.Evans is a cohost of. Looking forward to listening to the next one.

        Again for our newest visitors
        this is a video which brings you up to date on many, not all of the truths about this cult.

        http://youtu.be/u5JnngqQYvc

        Deutoronomy 18:18-22
        Proverbs 30:5,6
        Revelation 22:18-23
        John 8:32

        Remember to come back daily for help in shaking off the cult indoctrination.

  23. rob says:

    When I faded and was asked to meet with the elders for encouragement (which in witness terms means interrogation as to why I was no longer attending the meetings and going in service and also interrogation as to whether I still believed in the witness religion), I simply answered that this was not a good time for me and that I would get back to them when it was convenient for me. It has been several years and I never did get back to them.

    If someone were to ask me now if I wanted to meet for spiritual encouragement my reply would be “my spirituality is very personal to me and I don’t discuss it with anyone.”

  24. eyes opened says:

    Hi Catalina,

    If you want to play by the elders rules tell them you will not meet with them without your husband’s permission and presence as he is your”head”. Also you might ask them what it is they want to discuss. If they say to encourage you ask about what, you could tell them you’re ” very happy but thank you for your concern”. A former elder told me you’re under no obligation to meet with them. I hope this helps at least a little. Regards

  25. eyes opened says:

    Hi Tara,

    I suppose theocratic warfare can work both ways, haha. You’re under no obligation to answer any questions in a way that could cause you grief. I understand why you feel you should have the meeting. You might tell them you’re working hard at personal study and building yourself up, you’re well on your way and thank you for your concern. Just a thought. Remember playing their game has little to no effect on your relationship with God. These are manmade rules and games. Although I realize the profound impact they can have on our lives. Just give them enough to make them content and feel like they’ve done their job. Regards

    • Tara says:

      Thank you for that EO….. Oh gawd I can see me being hung drawn and quartered by the end of it. I’ll blame it on the medication the Dr gave me for being in a car accident that I wasn’t blood guilty for. (I got shafted – I mean rear ended) Maybe I should go put away my Harry Potter books….. they might take away my Kingdom Ministry…. thats ok they have some new fangled thing coming out soon. Well, watch this space… thank you everyone for your advice and encouragement…. Hugs.

      • Tara says:

        Well, well, well, so the brothers were very nice and concerned and ‘encouraging’….. actually they were but for their final trick they pulled the rabbit out of the hat and asked me about a wedding attendance. I admitted to it and they wanted to know how I justified it… I told them my conscience was clear before Jehovah and that is all that mattered. They were kind of taken aback at my bluntness and left pretty soon after. I have a feeling I may get the request of my presence at another ‘get together’ or get marked. Who gives. Not me.

  26. Meredith J says:

    Oh Catalina and Tara, so very sorry about your predicament. I’ve been away so I am catching up. The advice that others are giving here sounds good. The thing is that you know how they tick now and should be able to see right through their pathetic love bomb invite. This should give you strength as you can see how brainwashed they really are. You could always not answer the door if you don’t feel up to it. They probably think they are sorting us all out. All the best with it and I will pray for you both.

    • Tara says:

      One of them was talking about how close we are to the end blaa blaa blaa as they do. The other said ‘yes, for about the last 20 years we have seen how close we are’. I said ‘I think you mean longer than that brother… according to our Proclamers book they have telling us then end is coming since Rutherford, Knorr and Franz. He looked at me and shut up.

  27. danny says:

    The WT talmud link doesnt work anymore and i forgot to download it, can it be fixed? Thanks!

  28. adrian says:

    Hi guys, I already tried to post a comment but for some reason it didn’t appear. I was in the org for over 25 yrs and they were mostly miserable years. I experienced and witnessed an incredible amount of cruelty and spitefulness. The elders and their wives were the worst.
    Anyway, I remember once we had a new bible study who started attending the meetings regularly. He was also a millionaire. After a short time, whenever the elders met for a chat on the platform, after the service meeting, they started to invite the millionaire bible study up there with them. He wasn’t even baptized. They didn’t invite baptized brothers to join them, but this bible study was. Well, after a while he was baptized and in rapid succession he was appointed MS then elder. That sad gullible man. Did he not realize that all they wanted was his money?
    I am now a born again Christian and I have never been so happy. Nice to meet you guys!
    Adrian.

  29. omion says:

    please what is the link to the Correspondence guidelines?

  30. First off I would like to say terrific blog! I had a quick question which I’d like to ask if you don’t
    mind. I was interested to find out how you center
    yourself and clear your head prior to writing.
    I’ve had difficulty clearing my thoughts in getting my ideas out there.
    I truly do enjoy writing however it just seems like the first 10 to 15 minutes are generally lost just trying to figure out how to begin. Any suggestions or tips?
    Many thanks!

  31. Redtube says:

    If anyone is curious as to how this might be used to help in discussions with indoctrinated JW’s who are having doubts, look at the section dealing with membership of organisations, ask them if they agree with the council given, and then maybe discuss the documented and verified membership that the Watchtower had with the UN for 10 years…

  32. They are nasty people. Keep doing what you are doing.

  33. michele says:

    Recently my mom was in the Hospital and the doctors said that she needed blood. I have always promised, even though I have finally decided after 47 years to not get baptized as a Witness, that I would never compromise her “salvation” or her belief.
    WELL!!!! When my mom was the hospital, her sisters in blood came and prayed over her and they are not JW’s. When the JW’s came, her best friends, I asked them if they would say a prayer for mom with everyone in the room before they left and they said that a brother will come and pray for her and that they will pray for her individually when they went home. I was somewhat in shock.
    Then, when the doctors kept saying that she needed blood, one of the sisters said that I already called the Elder so they could talk to the doctors about my mom’s care. You can’t pray for my mom, but you can usher in her death with your bullcrap!
    When they left, the nurse came in the room and said, you won’t believe how many Jehovah’s Witnesses wait until the other witnesses leave before they just accept the blood transfusions. I asked if there was a legal way that I could make these decisions for her and if it is indeed a sin…Let it be my sin, because if my mom need just a little blood to get through a simple procedure safely, than I am willing to take that chance.
    It’s just too much. My mom looked scared and her friends appeared to be hypnotized.
    Everyday, elders go to the hospital and preach about blood and why witnesses don’t accept it, but they don’t realize, if something happen to my mom because they interfered while she is otherwise in good health….pray for me please!

  34. David Greenlees says:

    Does anyone know if there’s an alternative link to download the file? The original site appears to be down. I’ve only just found out about these Guidelines! Cheers guys and gals!