Results of the 2017 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses
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Before we start – something needs to be acknowledged. In late December 2018, my husband Sacha and I were invited to join the JW Survey team with myself as the Survey Editor and Sacha as the Support & Aftercare Manager. I don’t think I can adequately describe the honor and privilege we felt in being welcomed on to the team. We were both enthusiastic and keen to get started.

Things, however, don’t always go smoothly.  Late December / early January can be a tricky time of year and as we eagerly integrated into the team and settled in to our new roles, time dripped away.  Then there was the technical learning curve… 

It has to be said that technology is not my strong-point, so I struggled a bit to work out log-ins and other details. I’m a complete novice in the area of website posting and being on the under-side of the planet means that I was usually asleep when help was available from the northern hemisphere.  

Still, in late December 2018, I got cracking on drafting my very first article for JW Survey – reviewing and summarizing the results of the 2017 Global Survey.  And it truly was mid summer here and very hot and sticky AND the air-conditioner was on the blink…..

So I beg your indulgence and ask that you engage your imaginations as I now give you my inaugural article….

It is summer Down Under and Sydney is sweltering through a heat wave, which is nothing unusual for this time of year in this hemisphere. As I stickily struggle to find a cool and comfortable spot, I cannot help but reflect on Watchtower’s discomfort — enduring the heat in courtrooms and from unfavorable media attention in recent years.

I have been grateful to the JW Survey team for keeping us up to date and well informed with all the latest developments. I can only imagine how challenging it has been to research, collate and present the avalanche of information that comes through. It is my utmost privilege to now join the JW Survey team in the role of Global Survey Editor and do what I can to help support the community.

My inaugural article is to report the results of the 2017 Global Survey, so I have lost myself for a while in reviewing and analyzing what has turned out to be fascinating data. However, before commencing let’s give context to 2017 and look back at the year it was…

2017 was an epic year as media stories and newspaper articles shone a spotlight on Watchtower’s woefully inadequate and unacceptable child safety policies. Early in the year, JW Survey’s John Redwood attended and comprehensively reported on the Fessler Versus Watchtower case in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (articles included here:

Fessler Jury Selection Complete: Trial Date Set

Fessler Opening Statements and Motions

Fessler Trial Summary Part Two

Defense Collapses, Watchtower Settles with Fessler

Watchtower’s culpability in the matter of Stephanie Fessler’s abuse was shocking and disgusting, revealing an organisation that still does not understand the nature of child sexual abuse or the terrible damage that it does. Within four days it was clear that Watchtower was going to lose the case, so it was not surprising that Watchtower reached a settlement with Ms Fessler.

The arrogant and haughty behavior of Watchtower continued, this time in my hometown Sydney on March 10, 2017 when the Australian Royal Commission into Institutional Response to Child Sex Abuse followed up with the Jehovah’s Witnesses in Case Study 54. Unfortunately the commission found that very little had been done by Watchtower to improve protection of children.

In particular, the recommendations of the Commission to abolish the two-witness rule in cases of child sexual abuse, and to involve women in the investigative process undertaken by elders was largely ignored. The letters between the commission and Watchtower make for interesting reading material and they can be found here: https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits-case-study-54

Meanwhile, Watchtower began 2017 by warning against the inappropriate use of Emojis (reviewed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8Y2pq2Np2M) and then in March urged eight million Jehovah’s Witnesses to participate in a letter-writing campaign, protesting the ban of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia. The headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia, with their office complex near St Petersburg, were placed on a list of bodies banned “in connection with the carrying out of extremist activities”.

While the Russian ban on the activities of Jehovah’s Witnesses has prompted expression of varying opinions among the former Jehovah’s Witness community, one cannot help but question whether Watchtower’s energies could have been better used in reforming its policies on the protection of children, for example, instead of sending an avalanche of correspondence to a country not known for tolerance and acceptance of difference.

In April 2017 a conference hosted by Reveal (from the Center of Investigative Reporting) was held in London, aptly titled “Bringing Abuse to Light: A convening to address the Jehovah’s Witness child safety crisis”. The aim of the conference was to raise awareness and to connect survivors, journalists, lawyers and activists — uniting all towards pressuring Watchtower to reform their incredibly poor child protection policies. For more on this event see JW Survey article: https://jwsurvey.org/child-abuse-2/revealing-event-london-conference-highlights-child-abuse-among-jehovahs-witnesses.

The 2017 Jehovah’s Witness Regional Convention series commenced in July with the theme “Don’t Give up!” The Watchtower propaganda machine churned out highly emotive and manipulative videos such as “Remember the Wife of Lot”. Who can forget the overtly homophobic messages, the angry and contentious portrayal of “worldly ones”, and even Watchtower’s micromanagement of hair colour?

Particularly incensing was the talk “Safeguard Your Children From What is Evil” which served as a lackadaisical press statement in response to the growing child sexual abuse scandal being suffered by the organisation. This talk is very well summarised by JW Survey’s Covert Fade: https://jwsurvey.org/child-abuse-2/2017-watchtower-convention-children-must-dress-modestly-avoid-sexual-assault

In September 2017 writer and director Daniel Kokotajlo’s film “Apostasy” premiered and since its launch has received rave reviews, nominations and awards. Most recently, it has just been nominated for a BAFTA 2019! Congratulations to Daniel for a powerful film that captures the essence of day-to-day life as a Jehovah’s Witness and the numerous challenges — even life-threatening choices — that are expected to be made. It left a deep impression on me personally and I have had to re-visit the film several times to process my own connection to it and the stories it tells.

While all of these events swirl around us and we individually live our own lives day to day, the Global Survey provides an opportunity for all to have a voice — a voice that Watchtower silences and denies, arrogant in its indifference to the damage and abuse its organisation inflicts on oftentimes sincere members.

So, without further ado, please see below a downloadable infographic with some stand-out statistics. Additionally, there are some key findings along with the full downloadable PDF survey results:

5,370 total respondents of which 912 are active Jehovah’s Witness respondents

• The fact that young people are not to pursue higher education remains the least popular Watchtower teaching
• 59% say they are agnostic/atheist/have no belief while 38% remain religious
• 90% believe that JWs have a problem with child abuse
• 311 claim to be victims of child sex abuse within Jehovah’s Witnesses
• 38% claim to be aware of child sex abuse where they knew the victim personally
• 54% suffered some bullying at school due to being a Witness
• 52% believe they have experienced financial disadvantages due to not pursuing higher education, as per Watchtower’s teachings
• 33% say they have contemplated or attempted suicide as a result of being a part of the Jehovah’s Witness organization (1,113 individuals)
• 29% have self-harmed as a Jehovah’s Witness
• 75% have never helped someone to baptism
• 79% are against tax-exempt/charitable status for the Watchtower organization
470 individuals say they donate to Watchtower (exactly half of who said “every now and then”)
• 90% of those who do donate say they are not comfortable with donations being used to pay for sex abuse cases
• 49% believe the organization is in financial difficulty
• 52% consider themselves apostates
• 75% of those who have attended a Judicial Committee meeting feel that they were not dealt with in a fair and reasonable manner
91% of ex-JWs are happier for leaving the organization
• 73% of those who are no longer a part of the Watchtower organization have been successful in rebuilding their circle of friends/family
• 93% of disfellowshipped ex-JWs would not seek reinstatement
• 77% are being shunned
• 95% of respondents would not recommend anyone to become a Jehovah’s Witness
• 63% believe that the Governing Body know what they are doing and should be held accountable for their actions
• 71% would like to see the Watchtower society drastically change its damaging policies
• Only 21% became JWs after being preached to
• 99 respondents claimed to be currently serving as elders
• 327 respondents claimed to have been reinstated just to have contact with family
• 1,113 respondents personally knew of someone who has died as a result of refusing a blood transfusion
• 231 individuals would let their child die refusing blood (312 respondents answered that they were unsure)
• 1,071 respondents said they would secretly accept blood
• 82% said they would remove the prohibition on blood
• 4% believe JWs are God’s spirit-directed organization (a further 9% were not sure)
• Only 3% believe that elders are appointed by holy spirit
• Only 8% believe you are free to express a difference of opinion
40% voted for Governing Body member Anthony Morris III as the most controversial
60% are not comfortable with all non-JWs being murdered at Armageddon (2.1% were comfortable with this idea and 3.25% don’t think this is what JWs teach)
• 90% object to all forms of shunning
18% would remain JWs even if their beliefs were disproven
• 62 individuals would take a pill if instructed to do so by Watchtower
• 76% have heard of a Jehovah’s Witness committing or attempting suicide
• 48% claim to suffer from depression

If you would like to download the results in PDF form, you can do so here.

Finally, I would like to thank all of you who participated in the 2017 Survey and for your support of the Global Survey. I will now turn my attention to reporting on the 2018 Survey before releasing the 2019 Survey so that as many voices as possible can be heard.

I look forward to hearing from you!

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52 Responses to Results of the 2017 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses

  1. gruntled says:

    To take a cue from Robert DeNiro, F*** Watchtower.

  2. Justin says:

    Very well done Sherrie. I believe your inaugural run was a huge success! The information was concise and to the point, while you kept the numbers from being overwhelming and dragging down your article. I look forward to your next installment, and please keep up the fine fight 🙂

    • Sherrie D'Souza says:

      Thanks Justin! I really appreciate your feedback. I did agonize a bit over the article as I was anxious to honor the high standard that Lloyd, Mark & Covert have maintained on JW Survey – and I’m pleased with the result. You will be seeing more from me!

  3. gruntled says:

    A life-saving message to the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses:

    Learn from Evolution…

    https://youtu.be/7jPGtSuSIKY

  4. Markie says:

    I never understood what this survey is good for. Taken my a couple of disgruntled ex-jws and answered by a bunch of disgruntled ex-jws and maybe a few active JWs who are soon to join the ranks of disgruntled ex-jws. I could have told you without the survey that they wouldn’t find anything good about the religion.

    • outandabout says:

      but what about those unlike you and are unable to join the dots, Markie. This site is not necessarily speaking to the likes of you and me. We’re not all equal so how many lives has this site saved. It could be none or a dozen or more. Who knows.

    • jeffplancon says:

      You may be correct that this survey was taken mostly by disgruntled ex JW’s. But the one important thing that can be learned is that over 90% of the people who left are much happier now and would never go back. Without the scare tactics and control the witnesses (and my jw dad) had over me… I know I’m a much happier person now. Thank God I got out when I did.

  5. Phoenix says:

    I’m happy to see that more than 86 percent of respondents don’t believe the borg to be spirit-directed. 🙂
    But, at the same time I must honor each person’s choice in that regard. After all, we are all so free we can CHOOSE bondage.

  6. Ben Rancourt says:

    Thanks Sherrie for all the great work and awesome support. Great job. Looking forward to the next survey

  7. Darlene Alexander says:

    I appreciate that some jws actually took the survey, however, it is indeed sad that over 200 would let their child die for lack of a blood transfusion. That is true brain washing, and it horrifies me to think that when I was jw, I might have done the same thing. I do wonder if those that did allow their child to die, ever feel regret and realize what a monumental error in judgement they have made….

    • NewLight Romeo says:

      Darlene, Well said! My Stepfather died recently from lung cancer; he was already stage IV at diagnosis. It happened so quickly but we were scrambling to try and get him a hopeful treatment. The feelings of loss and inadequacy were absolutely terrible. And this is a disease from which recovery odds are slim. I can’t imagine allowing one’s child to die because of listening to a group of men who finally admit in their own words that they are “neither inspired nor infallible” (W 2/17 p.26), as many probably already figured out. And which they’ve proved true countless times.

  8. Shana Rubio says:

    Great job, Sherrie and Sacha!!!
    I have been anxiously awaiting this and you certainly didn’t disappoint. I really liked how concisely you summarized 2017. It’s truly amazing how much happened! That must have been tough to decide what goes in and what needs to be discarded. My hat goes off to you! Loved the graphic!! Nice focus on the highlights. I also like how you switched between numbers and percentages. Somehow you made dry stats interesting. I also want to recognize how much self-taught/self-learning you went through. The good news is now you know for next time. It was a pleasure to read and I am looking forward to 2018

  9. James Broughton says:

    Many thanks. Well worth waiting for. A useful tool in my own ministry.

  10. gruntled says:

    Stick a Fork in the Borg
    They’re done, they’re done
    Stick a Fork in the Borg
    They’re done
    Oh stick a Fork in the Borg
    They’re done, they’re done
    Stick a Fork in the Borg
    THEY’RE DONE

  11. messenger says:

    Outandabout,

    Have you heard enough yet from your media (so called news) to realize you are being saturated with propaganda to brainwash you into conformity? Conformity to their version of what your world must be. I ask you because you are a prime example of one that has previously succumbed to that propaganda as surely as a WT believing JW has.

    Look, the new phrase they are using is “Constitutional crisis.” How many times have you heard that? And how come everyone on CNN and MSNBC use the exact same terms, if they are not told to like Constitutional crisis or collusion? Are they idiots, or are they being given the exact same terms to spread that the dem politicians also use to get you to follow? They feed, you follow, just as much as a WT believing JW follows when they hear the term “Slave. ” Ooo reminds of that hyena that shivered each time he heard the Lion King’s name pronounced.

    You’re not your own man Outandabout. It’s like you’re living in the Matrix and don’t know it. They speak you follow. And in that way they shape your life. While you believe you are free.

    Let me ask you this Outy. If the news media can do that to you, which your own words posted under past articles proves it has already done it, then if a devil turns out to really exist, couldn’t he do the same thing to you?

    • gruntled says:

      ……. But thankfully “messenger” will save us from the CNN and MSNBC trolls, as well as from the Devil himself.
      Out of the frying pan, into the fire.
      LMFAO

      • messenger says:

        No Gruntled. I won’t save you. Remember, as I already told you, I’m just here to help everyone who reads understand YOU, and understand everyone that makes any decision about God. I’m not here to save anyone. That’s one of the reasons we’re all here. That probably hasn’t been revealed to you yet. But eventually it will.

        And if you can’t see for yourself with the limited finger pointing that I have done that claims from your democratic candidates AND EVEN MORE so from CNN and MSNBC is a farce you are truly blind.
        In that case, which appears to be the case from your comments and those also from Outy, my question is a valid one. Should the Devil actually exist, how is it you could not be tricked by him in the exact same way CNN has tricked you, and apparently still does? You say there is no God, because some of your experts claim that, some of those I already showed became lunatics. CNN experts screamed and are still screaming collusion for two years, when their lunatic screams have been proven false. My point again, if they shape your world SO EASILY, so does the Devil. If he exists that is.

  12. James Rosso says:

    Someone on Reddit speculated that there are tens of thousands of PIMOs stuck in who would leave if they didn’t have to risk shunning. I think that it’s probably tens of percent instead, and this seems to bear that out because the number this survey gives is almost 30%.

    That said, it’s an internet survey – self reported and not scientific – but it could be used to justify funding for an actual survey if any researchers wanted to do one.

  13. outandabout says:

    Thank you for your concerns, messenger. How many times have I heard “constitutional crisis”? Not as many times as “Jesus is coming”.

    The Dems and Rebs both represent big business. In the case of the Rebs, they can’t get elected solely by big business so to get the northern Catholic vote and the southern Evangelical vote they pretend they are Christians and push abortion, homosexauality gun rights issues and use scare tactics around communism by trying to present Socialism and Communism as one and the same. It works but they could be coming to the end of their run because they’ve had no new ideas other than those for 40 yrs and the world is waking up and accepting abortion and homosexuality and have had enough of gun violence. When is 40,000 gun deaths per year going to be declared a national emergency? Never, so long as the NRA gives millions to the Republican Party. You need to expand your view, messenger.

    If it’s good enough for Jesus to predict the world will see trouble as never seen before -which is easy to do because of population growth and diminishing resources – I’ll stick my neck out and say we could be witnessing the demise of the Republican party as we know it because of the bad publicity they’ve attracted by putting and keeping an Orangutan in the Oval Office. They may call themselves The New Republicans and be leaning more left to accommodate the inevitable and one day it may be hard to actually tell the Dems from the Rebs.

    Are you aware that over 600 Ex-Federal Prosecutors from all political divides have signed an open letter saying Trump would have been charged with obstruction of justice if he weren’t the President?

  14. messenger says:

    Outandabout,

    My comment was about the propaganda being spread, not the political parties being paid by corporations. You diverted the point, because you realize I’m correct. CNN, MSNBC and other so called news outlets have been lying for some time, at least two years, and I suppose before that.

    Anyway, unless you tell me you’re a White man living in the ghetto, I know you, like CNN are also FULL OF CRAP. When Black folks and poor Hispanics move into and begin to dominate White neighborhoods in the United States White folks take off and move to White neighborhoods, or if they cannot afford to live in a predominantly White neighborhood they choose a segregated neighborhood. White folks don’t live in Black neighborhoods in the United states, or in poor Hispanic neighborhoods, and you know it. And I believe you are intelligent enough to know that if those Hispanics were doing well in their own countries they wouldn’t be WALKING 1,500 miles up to the United States to enter illegally. The result will be the expansion of ghettos in US cites (spreading to integrated areas that in turn will spread into White areas). Ghettos, where you WILL NOT LIVE, will grow. So, how about stopping your lying here on the site.

    It’s probably the same in your European cites, but I couldn’t say from experience since I have just spent a month in Spain, and only landed at an airport in Germany. But as an example in the first congregation I attended the only two White folks were my cousin’s husband and his mom. My grandfather is mainly White, and looks all White, so does his daughter who was there. I’m mixed, and so was my grandmother. EVERYONE ELSE THERE WAS BLACK. It was in South Central LA. Compton was in our circuit; so from movies those that haven’t been there can get an idea of the area. When my mother was a kid, that was a WHITE community. White flight because of the black population expanding caused all the White folks to leave it. The next congregation I attended was about 8 miles from there. I don’t remember one Black family attending at my second congregation. All were white except for one or two Hispanic families.

    So, overseas friends on this site, not only are the famous movie stars, and politicians who say they believe in letting all the poor Hispanics in TO LIVE ALONGSIDE THEM full of crap, but so are the average wage earners who are White. None of those people WILL live in the ghetto unless because of a poor financial status they have no other choice. And if Outy tries to tell you those immigrants will not enlarge city ghettos it reveals his reasoning ability to be VERY LOW.

    So, Outy, are you a poor White guy already living in a ghetto? If not it seems you are FULL OF CRAP. Unless you happen to be one of the very, very, very small percentage of White folks in this country that choose to live in the ghetto for other reasons. Like I said there was a small percent in my first congregation like that. But because there is such a small percentage you should recognize the majority of your race (White folks) as racists, if you decide people are racists because of that. I personally don’t, but I am not full of crap like the stars and politician you follow. I choose not to live in ghettos, and I see nothing wrong with it. But according to your logic all White folks in the USA are racists shy maybe one tenth of one percent of them. So talk about them all, not just Republicans.

    And hey Outy, have you even sent those letters of to your congressmen requesting some of those immigrant folks be sent to your backyard? Or have you sent any money to help them? Or should we view your statements as bird twinkie? And if you are spreading twinkie about this, might we not assume you spread twinkie about everything you write here? (e.g. your pork bone study)

    • gruntled says:

      WOW.
      Finally showing your true colors, messenger.
      Sieg Heil.
      😀
      😀
      😀

      • gruntled says:

        I gotta admit though, these days I find honesty particularly refreshing, no? Perhaps because it’s so rare.

        • messenger says:

          Yes Gruntled. I always tell the truth. However, if YOU claim to side with Outy and the hypocritical White liberals suggesting you want a bunch of poor Hispanic people living in your neighborhood then you too are the hypocrite. Because everyone in America knows not only do you not want that, but every White American doesn’t want that. The claim is nothing more than a sham to get the minority vote by politicians and to put on the pretense of humanitarianism by phonies like Outandabout, and you if that’s what you claim. And if I’m wrong go take your butt to the ghetto to live and save yourself hundreds of dollars a month on housing costs. But we both know you won’t do that, will you?

          As for me showing my true colors, cut the phony rhetoric concerning me. Everyone here including those who are mentally slow know I have always written what I think. A major reason you sometimes cry on this site.

          If you claim the White folks in America want poor Hispanic people or a neighborhood of Black people living next to them YOU ARE AT LIAR. And every honest person in this country knows that to be true. All hypocrisy is disgusting. So, tell us what you are. Are you that hypocrite, or were you attempting to side step identifying your real self with that comment above that said nothing. Quit beating the bush.

          • gruntled says:

            Well messy, I certainly feel no obligation to justify myself to you or anyone else. However, since you had the balls to ask me straight up, I will give you an honest answer. Let me just say, however, that from now on, in such circumstances, I speak only for MYSELF. What others think and do, democrat, republican, white, black, green, or whatever, is between them and God. You are not wrong about phony “liberals”. I have met many, and they don’t fool me any more than phony “conservatives” do. To get to the point, I grew up in a diverse community. I still live in a diverse community. I went to school with kids from many different ethnic / religious / national backgrounds. Never bothered me one bit. I myself am an immigrant, with mixed blood. Basically a mutt. And proud of it. Though frankly, racial / genetic heritage never meant anything to me. I believe a person makes themselves into whatever they choose to be. Mind over matter. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

  15. gruntled says:

    Q. What do religion, politics, and Hollywood have in common?
    A. Ego, possibly the biggest threat to humanity at this time, and always your worst enemy.

  16. gruntled says:

    Time to be brutally honest.
    Being a Jehovah’s Witness is nothing more than a copout.

  17. outandabout says:

    By spreading propaganda, messenger, do you mean the doctored tape of Pelosi which was endorsed by Trump and played only on Fox? Both had to later admit the tape was false but boy, did they jump on it! Why, if they’re so sure of their position would such ‘intelligent’ people fall like children for such a thing? Desperate?

    I ask again, are you aware that 600 plus ex- Federal Prosecutors have signed and open letter saying Trump would have been charged with obstruction of justice had he not been the President? So in effect, Trump is an unconvicted felon and the moment he steps from office he’s toast and he knows it so we’ll just have to see how dangerous this cornered animal will become.

    The Mueller report says ‘does not exonerate’. Messenger, how does Trump get ‘complete exoneration’ from that and more to the point, why do you just blindly go along with such nonsense?

    Once again, messenger, your belief system has allowed you to be played like a fiddle and this time it’s the Repubs and the cult of Trump. The Republicans are very much like WT in that they are happy to have 40,000 gun deaths per year so long as the NRA keeps donating money to them and in the case of WT, they are willing to continue letting people die from want of blood rather than risk being sued by furious families of dead loved ones. I know you’re an honest guy and believe you’re dong the right thing but I’m not impressed by the company you keep.

    I’m not for wholesale immigration at all but hey, everyone is equal in the eyes of Jesus so when are you going to stop being a hypocrite and take in some fellow Christians in need? You are Gods Messenger afterall and you of all people should be setting an example by reaching out to those asking the most Christian nation for help. Armageddon is just around the corner so take no thought for the morrow. Get stuck right in there and show God what you’re made of. Claiming to have beliefs is completely meaningless if you’re not prepared to actually act on them. How do you know God hasn’t set the whole thing up just to see who is worthy of The Resurrection?

    And by the way, you said I couldn’t get you angry for a million dollars so please, where is my million? And not only that, I’m charging you an extra two hundred grand for petulance.

    • messenger says:

      The funny thing Outy is that you think I’m angry. The fact is I’m not. Maybe exposing facts to you hurts you. My point had nothing to do with Trump. It had to do with the lies being told by actors who live in Malibu, Beverly Hills, and Bel Air, all White areas with homes having price tags starting at several million dollars and go up from there. Oh, if a token Black family or Hispanic has that much money they are welcome there. But never would such a community welcome the illegal aliens from Mexico those actors profess to want. And we both know it. Those actors are hypocrites. And so are the politicians who are also wealthy. Too bad Trump doesn’t take some of the land in their neighborhoods as public domain property and then build low income shelters for the illegals there. But he won’t. Because that’s one way for sure he won’t get elected. None of the people in those areas would vote for him or contribute to his campaign if he did that, would they? Because they don’t want illegal aliens in their neighborhoods.

      And since your topic is Trump I’ll say what’s likely to happen. He never gets charged with any crime in or out of office. He wins the next election. If one of his children run at some future date they have a good chance of winning also. And the reason is because he is not one of the political party members either party controls.

      Wrongdoing will definitely be proven to have been committed by ex-members and possibly current members in the FBI, and other Department of Justice agencies. And it’s possible some of them will be criminally indicated. Because they are guilty of crimes. My guess is James Comey is already in the cross fire sights of the Justice Department.

      It’s already been proven Hillary broke many criminal laws, so she can be changed with multiple crimes if the statutes of limitations haven’t run, but chances are the Justice Department will leave her alone for political reasons.

      I didn’t read Muller ‘s report, but I am pretty confident from what I have heard Trump broke absolutely no laws acting as president or during his campaign. Because if he did it would have been reported on night and day on CNN. And though I don’t watch them much it’s impossible to miss the repetitive crap they publish. I would have heard it if they had anything on Trump. I’m talking about the actual crimes, not some bull crap opinions like the stuff you claim about some prosecutors signing a petition. I haven’t heard of any action that sounds criminal that Trump committed.

      My personal opinion about people who say negative things about Trump is that they aren’t that bright. I haven’t seen him do one outlandish thing as president, nor have I heard one outlandish thing reported that he did. That is that wasn’t a lie, or what I consider the opinion of the ignorant. Like, he’s a racist because he wants to build a wall next to Mexico. That’s a stupid comment. And it’s the only type of comments I have heard about Trump which are negative that are attached to any fact. The other type of negative comments aren’t even attached to facts, just mere opinions.

  18. outandabout says:

    update for messenger…….make that now over 900 ex-Federal Prosecutors.

  19. messenger says:

    Thanks for your response Gruntled. I appreciate that one. And it’s good to see you still believe in God, if you were honest about that reference to him. Remember, Watchtower is not God, far from it. WT is one of the greatest apostates in our day. The apostles of Satan they are.

    Take care. And to me you are not a mutt.

  20. Ted says:

    “Our close relationship with Jehovah makes us the happiest
    people on earth”. WT, 1995, Jan, 15th p,12

    Just heard of two more suicides from my former cong,
    both from the same family, a son followed by a grief
    stricken mother, that makes nine from the one KH.
    I was very sad to hear this news, as years ago I had
    many happy times with these dear people.

    • outandabout says:

      sorry to hear that, Ted. Of course this will be treated as fake news by JW’s because they don’t do facts.

    • Sherrie D'Souza says:

      Oh Ted – that is terrible news. I am so very sorry to hear that. That poor family. It’s hearing about tragedies like this that motivate me to do as much as I can to raise awareness of this despicable cult. Too many think it is harmless when it is one of the most insidious and dangerous out there!

  21. outandabout says:

    messenger, would a true stable genius get up on the world stage and say he is a stable genius? Would he say China is impressed by his big brain? Trump has done both. There’s an Orangutan in the White House and you support him purely because you imagine god supports the Republicans. Not very bright of you.

    That open letter is genuine. Wake up.

    • messenger says:

      The only persons I remember writing that I support on this website is God. But your assessment about Trump based on those two statements you claim he made doesn’t make any sense. Those type of statements could not reveal a persons intelligence level to anyone.

      As for your letter, I make my own assessments. Too many reasons floating all around us not to do that. Like WT buried us in its agenda, many other people and organizations attempt to do that.

      But since you seem to be hung up on Trump, and since you claim I support him I’ll offer my opinion of his intelligence. Based on his status, wealth, his decisions, work ethic, his ability go get things done, and his communication skill it looks to me that his intelligence level is definitely above average. Quite a bit above average. I don’t know enough about him to know if he’s a genius or not. But he was probably using hyperbole when he claimed to be a genius. As for his claim China is impressed with his brain. That reveals nothing about intelligence level either. His intelligence level is probably at least high enough to place him in the top 10% when compared with all other people in this country. His accomplishments place him in the top hundredth of one percent when compared to other people in this country. As the world judges people he’s one of the most accomplished people in history. That alone speaks well of his intelligence level.

  22. messenger says:

    Outandabout what you’re missing in the Mueller investigation report is that the statement in it that there was not enough evidence to exonerate Trump of obstruction of Justice says essentially nothing. It’s like me writing YOU like to read about pedophilia on this site. But the site has never produced enough evidence about your background to provide enough proof YOU are not a pedophile yourself.

    If the report by Mueller stated so and so evidence as listed here provides PROBABLE CAUSE to indict Trump on the charge obstruction of Justice, you might have a point. Short of that it’s similar to saying we cannot say from the information we know about you that you are not a pedophile. Like the old saying, “When was the last time you beat your wife, ” it is designed to smear the recipients character.

    I did see that Bar and Rosenfeld decided no such evidence exists. So, you can forget about Trump ever being charged for obstruction of Justice for what he has done so far. It won’t happen.

    • Peter Dobbs says:

      messenger, you’re obviously tuned into one side of the argument so how can you possibly be getting a balanced view. Following Mueller’s speech the other day, even Fox’s very own lawyer has said Trump is now in the poo and that Barr obviously lied to the American people. The truth lies between what and what not we’re watching.

      Okay, grab a soap box and go down to the town square and announce yourself as a stable genius and that people admire your big brain. Intelligent you may well be, but I think your mental state would definitely be of concern to those around.

      And don’t forget, Australia gave Trump the no because of his Mob connections. A Christian mobster?

      • messenger says:

        Peter I see you as misrepresenting facts. What do you mean Fox’s lawyers? Fox has guests on their shows not lawyers representing their company. Some of those guests are working for the Democratic party thus misrepresenting facts.

        As I said I have not read the Mueller report. I also have not heard one thing that has been reported on that sounds like Trump broke a law. If he did why don’t they blast us with the facts like they do when anyone else breaks laws? What I hear are opinions about that which to me have no value, because of the hypocrisy and ignorance that is so apparent in the reports stating he did it.

        Trump was already declared free of ALL charges by Barr. And it legally was Barr’s job to do that, not Mueller’s. And it’s NO PROSECUTORS JOB to exonerate anyone. That’s the job of a defense attorney AFTER someone is charged with a crime. Therefore the statements Mueller gave about not exonerating Trump reveal his bias against Trump.

        There is evidence out there, and I believe it is compelling enough to get a criminal conviction against Hillary, James Comey and other people who were working in the Obama administration against Trump shy any statues of limitations running out. To me it’s not a question of can they convict some of those folks, it’s only a question about will they decide to do it if statutes of limitations haven’t run out.

        My guess is that these crimes were committed with the permission of President Obama. And Trump’s current DOJ might bring that out to take down Joe Biden, Obama’s vice president who is currently running for president. Evidence already exists on video that Biden exhorted an overseas government official. Undoubtedly he knew about the illegal acts committed against Trump’s people himself. Because I believe it’s too juicy a story for him not too, since human nature is prone to like gossip.

        As for Barr, he hasn’t lied about anything that has been reported. Mueller told the lie that contradicted Barr’s statement. Not the other way around. That’s already been reported on and admitted to by Mueller’s people.

  23. outandabout says:

    messenger, old buddy……you’ve lost sight of the core fact;
    ‘does not exonerate’ does not mean ‘complete exoneration’. No amount of spin can change that. Not from you or anybody else and that includes Sean Hannity.

    Justin Amash appears to be the only Republican to have read the report and he’s now calling for Trumps impeachment. Will more Republicans discover they have a spine? Will you learn from from your own experience that your bias towards what you want and need to believe can lead you down the wrong path as is what happened with your WT experience. ‘If we keep doing what we’ve always done, we’ll always get what we’ve always got’.

    • messenger says:

      Outy,

      How about following your own advice, ” Will you learn from your own experience that your bias towards what you want and need to believe can lead you down the wrong path.” (Outandabout)

      It’s just like when you argued against the existence of God Outandabout. In all your arguments on this topic, which you raised, you produce no facts that you claim are in Mueller’s report that show Trump is guilty of committing ANY crime. I am a facts man. Got it Outy. Opinions mean nothing to me. I reach my own conclusions based on facts that I know. Not facts that are hidden from me. So, where and what are those facts you haven’t shared?

      The only facts you usually produce is what someone else’s opinions are. You hardly ever produce any of the evidence that those opinions are based on. Kind of like Caroline, who got blown off this site because she got so mad when I called her on that- because she was assuming most of her assertions in the presentations she made while claiming those to be factual ideas she presented. She finally got mad and left the site saying I was full of crap, when she couldn’t factually support her assertions. Maybe her cursing on this site had something to do with it too, I don’t know. Because she didn’t use the word crap. She used the other word when directing her hostility towards me. So I guess I won those arguments.

      Don’t you see that approach and your own approach as shifty? You’ve got your down shift (a diversion to another topic), the power shift (claiming it’s the only logical belief because so many experts claim it is), and the normal ride along shift (these other guys said it, so I should believe it too). How about shifting to a factually supported shift for a change. You know like the ones I use ALL THE TIME e.g. “there are thousands of people who have never been diagnosed with any form of mental illness, who function at every status level in society who claim they have been contacted by God, and/or have seen miracles they attribute to God. The most prominent one of these individuals is the most prominent personality in all of human history.” You know facts like that which are undeniable.

      Is it that you lost your argument in denying God exists, that you attack Trump? Because my point was about the obvious propaganda being spread by news outlets, principally CNN and MSNBC when you diverted to attack Trump mode (your down shift), which does suggest my point is valid. You have been so influenced by that propaganda so that you defend it rather that staying on the topic I raised. It appears to be you believe every bit of it. So, do you see why I raised that point. If the media can trick you so thoroughly, then a Devil if he exist can also, in the exact same way.

  24. outandabout says:

    you’re a case, messenger. Did you not once believe the WT was God’s very own visible organisation? Did you not once believe WT exclusively had the Truth and everyone else was going to die at Armageddon? Now, why did you believe those things?…..you checked your ‘facts’, right? For decades you were believing and promoting falsehoods and warning people of dire consequences if they didn’t follow your lead. You’re in no position to claim I don’t know what I’m talking about because you’ve shown your judgment to be faulty, not only with WT, but you’ll also see you’ve been wrong to back Trump. ‘Does not exonerate’ does not translate to ‘complete exoneration’ as claimed by Trump and his team of desperate sycophants. Maybe you should go back to being apolitical.
    Of course gods don’t exist. Common sense, deduction, an understanding of human nature and history will tell you that. We’ve always had gods since day one and only one remains but his horse has gone lame. Thanks to the ability to be able to communication instantly worldwide and without fear of reprisals after hundreds of years of religion being able to wield it’s ghastly controlling power, each new generation is less of a believer than the previous, messenger, and that’s not because of the mythical Devil, it’s because people recognise truth.
    But, hey, if you need to believe you go for it but please stop lying to the children.

    • messenger says:

      Just because God has not contacted you does not mean he has not contacted others. It’s factual that he has, and thousands of us have said it. You’re speaking to one. So, I have my choice; I can believe Outandabout’s opinions, or accept facts as those facts exist (hard evidence).

      Outy, now don’t blow your stack and evaporate from this site, because I remind you again and again that you are not backing up any of your claims with facts. No, don’t fizzle out like Caroline did when I did that, because you cannot come up with any evidence to prove your points. I recognize that you are concentrating on me, and that’s what she did right before she blew her top and evaporated, never to be heard from again.

      Look, I have given you plenty of time and even directed you to what you might look for. But I’m a fair person. I’ll give you more time. Why don’t you go to that Mueller report and tell us exactly what it says Trump did to break any law? If it’s there I’m sure you can find it. I already told you prosecutors don’t exonerate people they investigate. Mueller’s job was to investigate, and then if he found criminal activity to charge people with crimes. Or he could have labeled some activity as criminal and referred that to another Department of Justice agency. He did charge a number of people, but not Trump. No crime for Trump. And he did not refer any criminal activity committed by Trump to another Department of Justice agency. But don’t take my word for it. I didn’t read the report, and I am just repeating what’s been reported. Go look at the Mueller papers yourself.

      Definition of exonerate from Webster
      transitive verb

      1 : to relieve of a responsibility, obligation, or hardship
      2 : to clear from accusation or blame

      Trump was accused for two years by you and your fake news lackeys of colluding with Russians to win his election. That Mueller investigation proved that those accusations by you and others were bogus, thus he was exonerated of that blame (definition #2 above). And Trump was accused of NO crime.

      Mueller, might be half-idiot, I don’t know. Because his job was to bring out crimes that were committed. If he really doesn’t know how to read the evidence he gathered about Trump as to its criminality he is incompetent, And because you cling to the coat tails of incompetent people, because others claim to you they are experts, I tell you to produce evidence to support your ideas. I’ll reach my own conclusion. I don’t accept opinions of incompetent people. And if Mueller’s whole team couldn’t do a job they were trained for, they are either lying or stupid. Which do you think it is?

      So, I’ll give more time. Show us exactly what Trump did in breaking the law, or those of us that are honest can recognize you as ALL MOUTH. The CNN of JWSurvey. Talks a lot, but your claims never materialize.

      Look I also challenged you to prove Daniel was not written when the Bible claims it was. Your evidence to prove that hasn’t materialized either. It’s because you cannot prove it. You’re attempting to prove God doesn’t exist, but you cannot even prove a Bible book has been falsified. And Outy, how do you prove I am lying about being contacted by God? Or that I am looney? That’s a hard one too.

      With all of those difficult tasks I see why you always divert the conversation to expressing opinions. How about giving us this one fact. Just say YOU CANNOT PROVE that stuff. We won’t hate you for it. Some readers might even respect that honesty..

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