It is my pleasure to give you a warm welcome to JWWatch.org. This website has been launched to give voice to millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world who would not normally have the opportunity to say what they really think about the Watch Tower Society, or the teachings and practices of the Governing Body.
If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, or a former Witness, you will be aware that the opinions of rank and file publishers (and even elders) are rarely sought by the Society. The small number of men making up the Governing Body have declared themselves the “faithful and discreet slave” of Matthew 24:45, thus claiming sole control over the organization’s teachings and policies. These men are most certainly NOT interested in the opinions of the “silent majority” of Witnesses under their authority. If they are, they have a strange way of showing it!
This website historically sought to redress that balance by means of an annual survey that was conducted anonymously throughout the world. The first survey was taken in 2011, and immediately attracted the opinions of 1,118 voters before closing at the end of the year. The results were posted to the Governing Body for their attention and review but, predictably, they never replied.
The following year, 2012, the survey received votes from 1,488 current and former Witnesses, most of whom expressed their concern at various Watchtower teachings. The remarkable events of that year (the Candace Conti case and the “new light” about the faithful slave) certainly seemed to get people talking.
Subsequent surveys have allowed in excess of 6,000 per year to express their true feelings about the organization and its leadership, and we are optimistic this number will only increase as JWsurvey grows in popularity.
As we move into 2021, JW Survey has become JW Watch. The John Cedars YouTube Channel has become the Lloyd Evans Channel.
These changes represent where we are as a unified team, dedicated to accurate, non-sensational news about the activities of Jehovah’s Witnesses and their leadership. You will see content that represents investigative reporting, documentary, and occasionally opinions about the state of affairs of more than 8 million members of the Witness faith.
A website for all
This website has been created and made available as a free resource so that anyone, whether they are a former or current Witness, or in some way associated with Witness friends or relatives, can give their honest opinions about Watchtower and the increasingly cult-like direction in which it is headed.
We adopt a strictly non-religious viewpoint, meaning we refuse to promote any belief structure in particular. For this reason, we cannot be accused of trying to “draw off followers.” We are merely interested in garnering the views of ordinary Witnesses and reporting on the facts.
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses has not authorized or sponsored the survey, and it is run entirely without any influence or input from them. However, we genuinely feel that the brothers who serve on the Governing Body, having assumed such overwhelming responsibility, should take note of how ordinary Witnesses and the general public feel about their leadership, since millions of lives are affected by decisions they make at their private weekly meetings.
Who started this website?
My name is Lloyd Evans, and I am the founder of this website. I set it up in October 2011 with the help of a fellow activist while I was still one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, writing under the pseudonym “John Cedars.” Eventually, I left the organization for conscientious reasons. You can read my story on this link.
I first had the idea to begin gathering the opinions of Jehovah’s Witnesses and their associates around the world because of a variety of issues that continue to be of real concern to me. I believe that ordinary Witnesses who devote their entire lives to loyally serving Jehovah, through what purports to be God’s spirit-directed organization, should have some say in the decisions that are made on their behalf.
It is my belief that not all is well within the organization. I don’t consider many of the teachings and practices encouraged by the Governing Body to have been formulated with the best interests of ordinary Witnesses at heart.
An unmerciful practice
For example, take the practice of shunning or “disfellowshipping.” The Apostle Paul’s words to the Corinthian congregation were as follows:
Clearly the Apostle Paul was delivering this admonition for the purpose of keeping the congregation clean. But to what extent should these words be applied? By saying “not even eating with such a man,” Paul indicated that his words weren’t directed against family members (who would daily eat with one another), but against other brothers in the congregation with whom one might consider sharing a meal.
There is no reason to insist that the word “anyone” should be applied arbitrarily to “everyone,” irrespective of age or circumstances. Even Watchtower publications acknowledge that there should be some exceptions where family members are concerned. For example, a disfellowshipped husband is not to be shunned by his wife or children, and parents are not banned from speaking to their disfellowshipped children if they are not yet old enough to leave home.
But why should it end there?
Many share my opinion that there is scope to extend even more mercy in applying this scripture than is currently encouraged by the teachings of the Governing Body. Jesus said the following to the unrighteous pharisees:
Jesus identified mercy as playing a crucial role in the extent to which laws and principles should be enforced. Many do not think it is merciful that older teenagers, many of whom were baptized at an extremely young age (sometimes as young as 9), are forced out of their homes by their parents and then cruelly shunned, often for the rest of their lives, through a mistaken and abhorrent interpretation of the Apostle Paul’s advice.
The Society’s publications themselves warn that “no one should be forced to… choose between his beliefs and his family.” (July 2009 Awake!, p.9) However, they apply this reasoning to every religion but their own.
The scriptures clearly prescribe “shunning” purely as a measure for maintaining the spiritual cleanliness of the congregation, and not for the purpose of breaking up families. To go one step further and insist that shunning should also apply to families is both destructive and deeply unmerciful. It also violates the principle expressed by the Apostle Paul at 1 Timothy 5:8 where he said:
These and other teachings of the Governing Body are increasingly becoming a cause of sincere distress for many Witnesses who wish that the organization could adopt a more merciful and loving stance. In particular, one can now be disfellowshipped as an “apostate” merely for disagreeing with the Governing Body over this or other issues.
Only human
It is my sincere desire that by means of this website, and its annual surveys, the Governing Body will humbly consider the pleas of both myself and like-minded ones around the world who long for the Watch Tower Society to be a more loving organization – one that truly reflects the need for respect and tolerance toward other people’s beliefs.
The members of the Governing Body are only human, and no matter how much they may pray for wisdom and insight, they cannot possibly be fully aware of how their teachings and directives are impacting the lives of their fellow worshippers on a daily basis. That is what makes this survey website so important. It serves as a constant reminder for them to show greater kindness and mercy in undertaking the role that they have assumed as the faithful and discreet slave.
I would like to thank you in advance for your support for this site, and for getting involved in our important work.
Warmest regards,
Yes I have on more than 1 occasion. They have spent the night at my house and I had not been to meetings in years. My wife is a BIG time JW and she likes to Hob nob with the Big Shots and has some connections at Bethel so when they came out to give “SPECIAL” talks at the assemblies etc she goes to work on getting them to stay at the house. There were about 25 JW’s at the house to greet him and “LISTEN” to the wisdom he brought. I was polite and I am a good host so I was there as well. Of course I did not make an issue or anything I just observed the entire ordeal. I wasn’t there to cause a scene I just let them be. There wasn’t anything special what he said he pretty much would just quote the WT verbatim when they asked questions. The JW’s always talk negatively about Creature worship and say the reason they do not celebrate B-days is bc it draws attention to the person instead of God? Well, when a GB comes around there is nothing but attention drawn to that person bc they feel he is like Jesus Christ himself almost. It was an interesting experience. To be fair he was very pleasant and cordial and polite while he was here. Of course my wife wanted me to engage him in a conversation about the issues I have with the WT and their teachings and duff prophecies but I did not want to get into it with him bc I already know what he is going to say. He is going to say the same thing that the WT says about the light getting brighter and how they are the only ones that are doing the Preaching work and all the things we have heard for years. It wasn’t the time or the place for that conversation plus I am sure he did not want to go into it.He would probably label me an apostate if we had that discussion. Not that I care but I just did not want to do it. When I was on a visit to Bethel in the late 80’s I had dinner and a few beers with Fred Franz. He was kind of funny. Almost blind at the time. When he finished his beer he slammed it down and said, “Another Dead Soldier”.
I appreciate your comment but would like to say that, I have had only a few professors in my college experience that were great speakers. They all were very knowledgeable but some can get your attention like none others. Well, it is the same with the GB. They are very knowledgeable (not perfect). We all know they are not close to Jesus, but human like all others. However, we do feel it is a privilege to meet them, no different than meeting a great actor/actress, musician or writer. And yes, this would not be a time to be combative with questions. What I do is write to the society when I have questions. I have several times wanted answers regarding issues. I remember my dad would not let my brother play football because he felt this would hinder his worship. My brother and other young men were also not allowed to play sports. This led to all of them eventually as adults leave the organization. Yet, when I moved and went to another congregation, I noticed that three young men played sports and remained active in their worship. Today,many years later, I also have allowed my sons to play sports and they were raised in the organization. I always remind them that God comes first and they have to determine if they can do both. I have six children in which four are adults. Two are active and two are inactive. We as adults may learn the same but we may not apply the same way. This is why we can’t blame the brothers, congregation, or the organization for imperfections. The fact is who else is doing the things that JW’s are doing worldwide? Nobody. We are constantly reminded through instruction whether meetings, or conventions that we are imperfect and need to be corrected constantly through the bible, but the focus is doing what is required to save our life. Thats it! how complicated is it. I was inactive for 18 years and never felt better for coming back. Any questions I have or feelings about what I have learned, I pray. For example, the society now teaches that emphasis should be placed on a higher education. This is not to say that we tell our kids, don’t go to college. No, we encourage them that nothing is wrong with schooling and gaining more knowledge in order to assist with a job. We emphasize the need not to focus on higher education and lack in their worship. I am a holder of two degrees and my oldest daughters have degrees. One daughter was in college while she studied and got baptized. She now has a degree and the brothers did not look down on her. I attended meetings when I was finishing my degree and my son wants to be a professional baseball player. The one issue that I discuss is worship comes first and we should not sacrifice our worship for something else. I also point to actors, musicians, and athletes who are JW’s. Some have fallen away and some are doing both. Yet, some elders will discourage young ones for higher education altogether. However, they will certainly not be put out the congregation for choosing to go to college. In all religions, some take things to an extreme, and all religions are talked about in a negative way. I have friends from different religions who complain all the time, but they still go.
Jane Delane, I got baptized in 1966 and I don’t remember anywhere in those 49 years where the Society has encouraged higher education. Right away when I was reading your post, I was wondering why you were commenting as you got to go to college. Most of the rest of us were shamed into not going to college but at the same time, seeing so many people coming into the “truth” AFTER HAVING A COLLEGE EDUCATION and because of that degree being able to have nice home and nice cars etc. but the rest of us who listened to the Society and didn’t go to college, having to scrape by with nothing to retire on. I don’t get where you have found in any of the publications where the Society has encouraged higher education. Can you tell us where you found that? Even the latest JWbroadcasting episodes are still discouraging going to college. Are you for real or are you pretending to be a Witness?
I was born in 1965 and the society as I was brought up condemned higher education and careers outright, they likened any attempt at achievement or success as ‘polishing the brass on a sinking ship’.
Armageddon was to come no later than 1984, three score years and ten after Christ came back to the vicinity in the earth in 1914.
All non witnesses would die in a Revelation prophesied destruction where the blood would run as high as the ‘horses bridles’. Conveniently having got all of their predictions wrong they claim a clearer knowledge these days; of what!!
For Gods sake however intelligent you believe yourself to be you are mad to listen to the insanity of this organisation, it is a manipulative cult, I got out years ago.
Unfortunately elderly relatives still believe ‘the truth’ and I try to keep quiet for their sake, but the JWs obsessive, extreme behaviors need bringing under control with immediate effect, it ruins lives by the day.
You can go to community college and study for a job. Paralegal, dental assistant, nursing etc
to Jane Delane: You sound sincere Jane but what you are saying is JUST NOT TRUE. I was a active JW for over 20 years and an Elder for over 12 years and a MS for over 5 years. I gave talks at assemblies, conducted the school and had GB stay at my house several times. My wife has ben a pioneer for over 15 years and still is. The WT definitely opposes and talks very bad and is AGAINST college education ( unless they benefit from it ) Please google a you tube talk by Governing Body member Garrett Loesh that he gave a few years ago in Italy and he Blasts higher education. I was baptized in the 70’s and my entire JW years college education was more than just frowned on it was actually considered unchristian. We all know iot was taught that way so to say it is a conscience matter now in the JW world is not true. Sure you won’t be dfd for it but you will not be considered spiritually strong and you could even be labeled BAD ASSOCIATION! It is a RIDICULOUS position to take and it is also unchristian and it is what a CULT does to control its members. Look up recent WT articles about college education and see the Stupid archaic nonsense position they take. Also on Sports, As a former Elder the CO told me if My son played o the school sports team I would be removed as an elder bc I was setting a bad example? I regret it very much to this day that I caved into his stupid reasoning and the CULT pressure. and di dnot allow my son that great experience. I have apologized to him for that.That was coming direct from the WT Society . Read what they say in young people ask. They are adamantly against any JW’s playing sports n School. Of course a few professional athletes play that may be JW’s but the position and the Pressure to not play is very strong.Jane? You say who else is doing the things JW’s do Worldwide? Well, What are they doing? Standing on the corners or in high traffic areas with an applecart promoting their teachings? Also it is an ever changing teaching that has never had 1 THING or prophecy they say come true! NOT ONE JW PREDICTION has ever come true. ZERO ACCURACY but yet they claim to be sprit directed by Jehovah? What are the JW’s doing hat is so great. They certainly don’t feed the poor or help the poor outside of a few JW’s when a tragedy strikes or they may include a few “WORLDLY” people and give a few handouts to them for news publicity. They do not have a program to help NON JW’s. They do not take care of he sick. All they do is promote their own teachings and push magazines all the time claiming they are preaching the good news of the kingdom that supposedly came in 1914 and we all know that is nit true and they even almost now admit it. Other religions are much more humanly kind to people than JW’s are and they help anyone regardless of their faith. So what else do JW’s do? Well, they destroy families through shunning and DFing, thy cause mental torture on DFd people causing many to commit suicide, they cause death by teaching to refuse Blood transfusions, they stop people from making a decent living by discouraging college education, They control what you can do and how you can dress, what kind of hair and beards you can have, they offer NOTHING for the young JW’s except free labor at Bethel, No youth programs, no professional counseling and they PROMOTE child abuse by their position on NOT protecting sex abuse victims from pedophiles by their position on the ignorant 2 witness rule. They want to protect the ORG against lawsuits but do not care about the victim. Besides that they harm the environment by printing Millions and millions of books and magazines that just get thrown in the garbage. So I guess that is what the JW’s do.
And again, what has the watchtower and its followers ever done for mankind? What has it done but promote their cult activities. And I am getting sick and tired of them always saying that they are only human and make mistakes. Well that also applies to all other religions too. Why cant other religions also make mistakes? It seems the watchtower always applies these statements when they are caught doing something wrong..As far as helping people that’s just a flat out lie. They help no one but themselves. If Catholic charaties had not helped me with my heating bills the last 6 years then I would have froze to death.Gos bless the Catholic people. They are a blessing to mankind..They make the watchtower look sick.
Hi Holy Canolli, your wife probably thinks if one of the Governing Body comes over, then that person will bring you back because they are just that much better than the others at convincing you or has she given up on you? I’d give my front teeth to be able to talk to them face to face. The first thing I’d ask is how can they prove 607, then 1914 and then 1919 and how many files do they have on child abusers in New York and why Did Garrett Losch say he didn’t have anything to do with the Watchtower. If you started on stuff like that when your wife had them over, that would be the last time and she’d never forgive you, would she? But what it would do is show them up for what they are too.
Hi Anonymous
I have brought up those points SO MANY times to my wife but I t just goes in one ear and out of the other. 607 bce, 1914, 1919, organ transplants, Shunning, higher education, duff prophecies, flip flopping on Blood transfusion, the United Nations debacle, Child abuse, the 2 witness rule, Pyramology,House of Princes in San Diego, amd do may other things. She likes to use the Illustration that the T is progressive and compare it to Medical Science? She sais medical Science doesn’t believe or practice what they did 50, 100, 200 years ago do they? They used to NOT wash after delivering a baby but later found out disease and germs are passed on to others if they do not. It was bc they did not have the Knowledge at that time. When it was “REVEALED” to them they changed.Or with Penicillin…they did not have the knowledge until it was “revealed” or discovered to them. SO it is “progressive Revelation” to her thinking and they keep adjusting until they get it right like the sailor that is “TACKING: as he crosses the oceans waters to get to their ultimate destination. They may go off course for a while but ALWAYS get back on course.
That argument I say is not a comparison bc Medical Science never claimed to be a spokesperson for Almighty God and the WT even after having made their o called Adjustments have gone back and forth on the same doctrine many, many times. Also after all of these adjustments the WT cannot still show after 140 years as a religion ! THING OR PROPHECY that they predicted has come true. Medical science has proved it by the very fact of their success in stopping and eradicating some disease and healing people. I did not go in that direction with the GB when he was here. I di share the article with her about Garrett refusing o testify and she said well there are 2 sides to every story and this is probably Media Bias. In the near future I think the GB will be coming again.
Hi Holy Canolli. I feel your frustration. There is nothing I can say that my husband can absorb either. I have so much hatred for the Governing Body members right now, that I don’t know how I could hold it in if I was to meet them. I hope when they come next, that you can say something to them that will get your wife’s attention but more than likely, she’s looking at them like they are infallible like my husband does. I have to hand it to the Society (cult). They have crossed every T and dotted every i when it comes as to how to brainwash their idolator worshippers into following them, no matter how silly it is.
Anonymous: Wellit has been almost a year since wel ats communicated. Meanwhile My wife just came back from the annual meeting and hanging around certain GB memebrs and their wives and she thinks the meetings and “New Light” was “AWESOME” as she says and calls it progressive revelation!
I asked he if I was right in the things I told her would be announced and she said well, some of it we are nt ending the TS we are just “adjusting to a new platform”.? Wow. anything they tell them they will believe.
Anonymous
I feel your pain but try not to hate. I think if we do that it hurts us more and gives them some satisfaction and they will always make the claim like ..SEE…How unhappy that person is now that they left the Organization? They say see, “there is no happiness outside the organization”. I am sure you have heard that over the years. Hating what they do and did is normal but I think we harm ourselves if we let personal hate eat at us. Be happy you awoke and are no longer under their control. Reach inside yourself and find your peace.
Hi Cedars
This is a response not to yourself but to Paul Grundy (if you can please contact him, I failed). His article on beards in the JW movement possibly omitted an interesting comment I heard from a then elderly JW over 30 years ago about how the Russellites wore beards like CTR after his death, whereas those who followed Rutherford [JW forerunners] went clean-shaven.
Maybe needs research/verification.
Anyhow, All the best
Wayne (ExJW)
Australia
Bravo, spot on and more accurate then the others I’ve seen. This needs to be told with truth not made up backwards crap I have read so far. I have been kicked out 4 times now and this time was the charm. I didn’t even get a meeting at the Hall or letter just a surprise call saying you’re out. I didn’t even know I had been under investigation as this time wasn’t guilty. Now I am being called
Apostate for talking and then r questioning jws after being born into it 54 yes to be exact Thank You
Keep up the work!
I had a falling out with a loved one over the disfellowshiping issue.
She misunderstood me as a JW but I respect why she did so.
There is a difference between “Shaming” and “Shunning”. As one of JW I do not believe in Disfellowshiping. I DO believe in Shaming. BUT NOT ON A CONGREGATION LEVEL! I practiced shaming on a relative who was way off course. The result is now a happy marriage and a son. But is was a ONE on ONE dialoge and shaming. My father, a Catholic, did the same to me when I was 17. It changed my life. Shame is good when done appropriately.
JW heirachy has done a dis-service to Jesus Christ in this regard. Imagine Jesus asking you to write a letter and review it in 6 months to see if you can be forgiven? My goodness
I hope one day to make amends with her.
People are more valuable than organizations. But not Watchtower. The “Organization” is more valuable than the people. John 3:16
I once had a problem with disfellowshipping but when I got older and became a parent, I then understood it. It is different today than many years ago in the organization. I remember when a scripture was read before someone was disfellowshipped and then we would pretty much know what they did wrong. That to me is shaming. However, I realize that this disfellowshipping has a good purpose. First of all, one only gets disfellowshipped if they are not repentant, or continue to believe a certain way that is against bible laws or principals. For example, You cannot admit to smoking, fornicating, being an alcoholic, and you are not sorry or do not want to change behavior. It would only be right to disfellowship this person. If I had an adult child living in my house and he got on drugs, in trouble with the law at times, cursed and disrespected me. I will no doubt put him out because this would be unhealthy and bad for the rest of my children to see. Doesn’t mean that I would stop loving or talking to him. It means that in order for him to come around he would have needed to take steps to be back. First, be sorry and then take actions to correct bad behavior. I would not want any of the other children to hang out with him either. A disfellowshipped person can still attend the meetings for spiritual food and he could only speak with the elders on certain matters. When our children do wrong, we discipline. What discipline we choose is our choice. Its too bad if the kids don’t like it. It is a form of correction. In the congregation, elders have to determine what discipline is needed. This is a difficult task because they are imperfect too and have to go by prayer to determine. Just as some jury’s, elders can get it wrong. But just as people unjustly put in prison and punished, they work on getting their name cleared or punishment corrected. We are taught forgiveness and even humans unjustly convicted have learned to forgive. However, for the ones who are just given a reproof in the congregation (Like me), I have learned from it. I willingly came before the elders to tell them of something I had did. This was difficult because it was embarrasing for me, but I was truly repentfull and acknowledged my error. No announcement was made but they prayed with me and gave instruction. I was truly grateful. The ones who never come back from being disfellowshipped are the ones who have allowed their pride stand in the way, or they decided not to change the wrong. I have sat next to a couple in the meeting who got married but had fornicated before getting married. They were able to speak with others but were not allowed to answer or go into field service for a period of time. The couple still went to meetings and hung in there until they got their full privileges back (no complaint)0. Nobody likes to be punished, whether jail, fines, or in Jehovah’s organization disfellowshipped or whatever. Parents punish out of love, the same with God.
So you call this love from God wow I guess teen-agers and women who get raped and your so called elders call it fornication deserve this extreme punishment from Jehovah! I think not it happened to me your precious elders publicly reproved me for rape! Then disfellowshiped me for leaving my husband who beat me and is a drunk! I have no parents because if this and as for Jehovah he’s not the God those JWs serve they serve the Organization and the elders not God!
Jesus died for everyone and is forgiving the JW’s don’t follow a life of forgiveness as Jesus said! Don’t they preach forgiveness at memorial time! So they expect do as I say not as it is written! It says drunkards will not inherit Gods kingdom, yet God hates me not my ex husband! What a load of crap!!!!
The Witnesses are fine with everyone until you talk bad against the Organization and by the way even tho they say someone who leaves the Organization hates God that’s crap too!
I have more protection away from them and a better clear relationship with Jehovah on the outside of that dictatorship!
you have already erased everything I have written
you are a clown with a hidden agenda working for satan
Geez apologist, get a life!!
‘Apologist’. Fortunately, Gilbert is right on the money. The idea of shunning is a mean, cruel way of ‘punishing’ a person for using the free will that is a gift from God anyway. By shunning ones own children, who are another gift from God, is certainly not honouring Jehovah, but in actuality, dishonouring Him. No where in the scriptures does it say to abandon your children, siblings or spouse because they have their own thoughts on religion. We are ALL different and that’s the way God made us.
I would not have any doubt that the watchtower and those 8 bent over old men might be getting food stamps and welfare if they could.They get charity from United Way..Yes they do. Anything free their hands are reaching. next time one knocks and I answer I will say “hows business today?”” did you pick up any new customers?” this morning?
@apologist. Typical JW answer. Anyone that disagrees w the WT is from Satan. Case closed. Ears Closed. Eyes Closed. Mind Closed. Heart Closed. Apologist, PLEASE show mw 1 prophecy the WT has predicted that has come true in their short 135 years of existence. I can show you 100’s of ones they uttered that did not come true. Just 1 Apologist.
Here is some JW prophecy. The 1920 leaflet & talk millions now living will never die? Or the generation of 1914 being alive at Armageddon? Or constructing Beth Sarim? Or………No, I give up!
@wanderer. Here are some more prophecies from the WT. The King of the North will prevail ( Russia ) they will gain control over the oil of the world ( Daniels prophecy book ) the year 1925 is more important in prophecy than 1925, Jehovah dwells on his own planet, Just a few more months before Armageddon ( 1942 )
The last days began in early 1800’s when Napoleon was taking over Europe, Then it began in 1874,Mussolini plays a major part in Bible prophecy, The Princes like King David will be resurrected before Armageddon,and we can expect them at any minute! Judge Rutherford is so CONVINCED that King David will be resurrected he SIGNS OVER THE GRANT DEED to the home in Beth Sarim in San Diego California! ( A real Nut case ) The flip flop again on the what is a generation when it is evident that the prediction that this generation WILL NOT pass away is not coming true. The Flip flop again on the F&D Slave who it is and what they do? Remids me of David Koresh and the WACO TEXAS
situation.
lol lol–they are indeed a joke. A cult is a cult is a cult- Oh well you get the picture.
Holy Connoli
To be able to show 1 ‘prophesy’ that the JW organisation had shown to be true, one would need to be blind, deaf and have a very cold heart. Satan does not even come into the discussion
I think an in-depth article about JWs & beards would be good for discussion.
This is such an American JW man made rule and results in having privileges removed if you’re unfortunate enough to be in a congregation where the elders have decided you’re worldly if you have a beard!
Interesting how very well respected individuals like surgeons, bank managers (hmmm maybe not so much now with their pay rises), doctors have beards but the WTS still infers they are bad. Note the absence of them in any of their publications when JWs are portrayed. I think the reason is because no American politician has a beard so the WTS being based there is influenced by such thinking. What’s bizarre is how they don’t have the spine to come out and directly say that they don’t like beards on JWs (although I’m not too keen on women with them!)
I have had various discussions with self-righteous elders over the years and I quote Isaiah 5:20 ‘woe to those who say good is bad’. What’s more unnatural: shaving your beard off that God has given you or letting it grow? To judge someone’s spirituality by their facial hair is ridiculous. What makes the elders that are against beards even more like the Pharisees (apart from their laws of men over God’s principles) is the fact that they themselves allow (or even wear) moustaches. IT’S STILL FACIAL HAIR!
“Ah but in some cultures a man of God with a beard is not accepted” came the reply in one of their stock letters to me as a teenager so I wrote back politely asking them to tell me which cultures these were… still waiting for a response.
Many town congregations in the North of the UK where I’m originally from accept beards, many reasonable elders actually sporting them, realising that it is not our place to enforce personal opinions on others as regards to modest dress & grooming. I just love the look on American JW faces when they come over to the UK and the first thing they say is “wow! You guys are allowed to have beards!”
Maybe TPT Morris thinks beards are designed by homosexuals too!
OK rant over. Peace & I’m out of here…
Average Joe. I have had the same arguments you make about the position the WT has on Beards! Totally ridiculous and also totally un scriptural! They would try to make the argument that it could “Stumble” somebody? I would say really? How would it stumble somebody? Well, they might think you are a radical or a Hippy…yes they would say Hippy, lol. ( shows how out of time they are ) Then they would say that Ministers of Christendom wear beards on TV but we JW”S do not.We don’t want to imitate False religion! Then they would use comparisons to stumbling a brother or sister if they wore overly “suggestive” or low cut clothing to expose their breasts or other nonsense reasoning. SO I said you are comparing wearing a beard which Jehovah gave us to possible sexual immorality? It would turn into an argument every time but of course never could they use a scripture to support their stupid reasoning. I had a JW friend from Germany who would visit us every few years and he had a full beard and would go to the KH in California and everyone would be shocked. He said it was no Big deal In Germany although the official position in the WT and Magazines is NO BEARDS for Men he still did it.
When I was an Elder we would have Stupid meetings about a few brothers that were starting to grow beards and how we needed to have a special talk about it. One very Nice Brother who was a school teacher and had a education degree wore a beard and the Elders gave him a bad time even refused to work in Field Service with him. I would defend him in the meetings and say don’t we have better things to worry about in life and the cong then this guy wearing a beard?
Do you really think Jehovah the Grand Creator gives a Rats Arse about a JW wearing a beard! Leave him alone I said as he is a kind and loving person. They said if he insists on wearing a beard then we do not have to work with him in the Field service or we can take “privileges” away from him in the Congregation. At the same time their was this other publisher in our Cong that was over 300 1lbs and his belly would hang out over his pants ( a nice Fat Person ) and he was allowed to go door-door even though it was extremely embarrassing to anyone that would work with him in Field service. I mean this guy was SUPER OBESE and could barely walk upstairs.The point is he stumbled me and others was not a good example and drew attention to himself ( all the Dumb Arse arguments they use against beards and grooming ) yet nothing was ever said to him or done to him about his problem and their were many others that were EXTREMELY Over weight and looked abnormal but they preferred to pick on men with beards? They have nothing else positive to do except to think up BS issues that have no value. Personally , I think the reason for it is bc a few GB members are from the 30’s and 40’s and they are stuck in a stupid time warp and basically they are just Ignorant and unreasonable. They create rules and regualtions EXACTLY like the Pharisees and exalt themselves above God.
the organization is worried about brothers wearing beards when in the background a few pedophiles are grabbing the kids ????????????????????????? they need to clean their own closets. period.
To Robin Miller. Yes, you are right. They forget about the BIG THINGS and make idiotic rules about small things. it is a man made religion that is why. Also, A CULT is a Cult is a CULT!
Thanks for the great observations, Joe!
I find it interesting how they can use the origins of a tradition, phrase or holiday, as evidence that it is part of the world, and should be avoided… yet they require men to wear neckties. Neckties originated as part of a military uniform.
They cling to rules & traditions they like, and are so judgmental of anyone who dares to question the authority given to them by (?? what is the current belief on this ?? I have fallen behind on TRUTH updates…)
I remember when we were studying with the JW’s, and they compared celebrating Christmas, to picking up a dirty lollipop out of the gutter… (“What Does The Bible REALLY Teach?” – read this book and find out!!)
Logic and reason have no significance. Avoid critical thinking! We have the TRUTH. “I just know we have the TRUTH.” (repeat…)
Joe, thank you for your comments. You make some very good points.
JW’s follow rules, that are made up by men, American men, who claim they speak for God himself. It seems that their organization prides itself on being absurd & different, so they can be recognized. I listened to them for years, before I finally just had to give up on having a logical conversation with any of the ones that came here to “teach” me about the Bible. They will never admit when they are wrong. Honestly, I’ve never seen a group of “loving” Christians, who are so completely self-absorbed, puffed up with pride and priest-like privilege. Anyone who doesn’t do things “our” way, is condemned to destruction.
(This is not to say that there aren’t many JW people who have been nothing but kind and loving to me, back when I was a potential recruit.)
I have never understood what they actually believe about Jesus, but most of their rules are based on assumptions & conclusions that do not actually come from the Bible. Your point about facial hair is a great example.
Another dress code rule that contradicts itself, is their insistence that men wear neckties. The necktie originated as part of the military uniform, and its history is well-documented. They are so hung up on avoiding anything that has pagan origins, but apparently this one is ignored, so they can be acceptable to the world? Celebrating Christmas is compared to eating a lollipop you found in the gutter, in their Bible Teach book, but they have no problem with ignoring the commands of Christ, to feed the poor, do your good deeds in secret (field service reports given to men: Matthew 6:1-6)
The long list of their weird inconsistencies, just keeps growing, as the leaders become more desperate for power. The internet will end up destroying the Watchtower, but they will use it as evidence of Satan’s attack on the one true religion.
What a sad and confusing existence it must be for the innocent people who have dedicated their lives to this organization, just waiting and hoping the world will end…soon! (work work work! time is short!)
I believe that shunning is non bi lical and that the scripture by the apostel paul was taking out of context.
Frankie: So what do you think it means and how is it taken out of context?
Other religions use the same scripture to shun. Of Course the JW’s use it to STOP any free thinking or any rational discussion about the scriptures and they use it to silence any different opinion.
jehovahs witnesses are not a charity. they dont do anything practical for anyone.
all they do is take donations from there members, and give then nothing back in return.
children at them meetings find it verry stressfull due to there being nothing there for children, they have to sit quetly throughout there meetings and its even worse for them during all the big assemblies of theres were children have to sit quetly from around 8 am till 5pm.
that is not good for children.
some single moms sitting at the kingdom hall back room with there children have mental health issues going on in there heads, they get really agitated by some of the comments they are hearing from the elders on stage, and are really struggling to keep the children quet at the same time.
( nobody ) cares about how what they are hearing may be causing them psychological problems, and even some of them children are developing psychological problems, because they are picking up that there mom is not happy there.
its difficult for them moms to leave the jws since everything out in the world they ever had has been taken from them, all they know is the jws organisation.
you cannot aproach some of these moms and others members who have simular type of psychological problems, because the watchtower society is constantly warning them about so called outside apostates, hence they are in catch 22 situation, going round in circles developing mental health issues.
the simple answer to dealing with that situation is for these single moms and others etc to keep in mind every single person, including every religious organisation true or faulse, if such a thing really dose exist will all be answerable to jesus, jehovah, the vary allmighty himself.
no matter what any religous organisation may say, they ( cannot ) give you life, its not in there hands to do so in the first place, the only people who have the authority to give life is the vary allmighty himself and jesus the mediator.
jws vary own lifes will be thrown at the mercy of jesus himself.
any religion that stops bible study house groups world wide has to ve view’d with suspicioun, thats how much them governing body members in america have on its millions of members, and nobody questions it.
the word theocracy itself came from josephus the historian, which the jws applied to themselfs.
personally speaking, i really feal the governing body of jehovahs witnesses are a bunch of creeps, especially by the way they try to defend themselfs via broadcast about them child abuse cases.
peter. online name.
Hi i have only recently found your website. I was one of jehovahs witnesses for over 35yrs but the past five years have not been active i would be here alnight if I was to tell my whole story needless to say I’ve been a full time pioneer elders wife been to pioneer school been involved with bethal projects etc etc etc
I have been so pleased to find your website as everything I have read has only validated the feelings i had been struggling with for so long. I was feeling very alone but refused to be controlled by a In perfect man made organizion . So good to say how i feel. L
Good to hear from you, Lorraine. You will find a lot of friends on Cedar’s site, people who have released themselves from the WT shackles and have survived, thrived, grown and developed outside of a controlling cult. Keep visiting and contribute if you feel the need to say what you feel. Welcome to the great crowd (of free-from-the WT-happy people!)! Lol!
Extraordinary you were in for so many years and now are out of it. I feel I would like to chat. Maybe that is my isolation speaking? I was out sooner but the after effects are no less strange. If stranger were possible it would qualify. Anyhow I hope you feel you have some people of reassurance to relate with? That is the hard aspect. I hope things work out for you?
Just a mild point that may not even enter your situation, since it is often so well integrated into the social strata: in my case it has become overtly obvious beyond all reasonable doubt; that JW high level are Freemasons, or have their own networks which are allied to it, and as such the network one becomes aware of over time that imposes similar sanction and subversion is everywhere. I tried to locate people who I feel are not and I cannot. A shock really!!! In fact I hardly trust even this site to not have their spies posing as those who’ve left! Just worth noting; in my experience!
Ray
How and why do you say th e JW high lever ( GB ) is connected to the Freemasons? From history I know Russell had some connection although he personally denied it but I have read JW WT articles where they say Freemasons are pagan and devil worshipers etc. So what evidence do you have that they are connected with the Freemasons?
The Jehovah’s Witnesses say: 1) The Royal Family are what? 2) Parliament is what? 3) Every religion except their belief is run by whom? 4) Financial markets are run by whom? 5) Military are under the power of whom?
Correction: Their elite group of males state your 5 replies to the above; whence all baptised followers, whether coaxed into thinking they got to that point by REASON, will be obliged for life to agree or thereafter be considered as in league with one or more of your answers and duly treated with perpetual suspicion.
Quite surprising considering the END ought have happened before “The generation of 1914” have passed away; update 1975; update blank; blank – I once had quite the extensive collection of bound mind-bending volumes going back to the 1930s but gave it to charity after being surprised my ex, who was still in, declined any interest on our separating, without so much as a word; which was years already of zero dialogue – less of a surprise!
Ray: no disrespect intended but you are not answering my questions about the JW’s and the Freemasons as you claim.The JW’s beleive every organization except theirs is from Satan. There is God’s organization and everything outside of the Watchtower Society ( the World ) and all are from Satan not just freemasons.
Your answer is not clear and doesn’t stick to the subject. Personally I think you are way off the mark but thanks for trying to answer.
Mmmm? It’s potentially either/or/both ! Insider trading; double agency both ways; shared misinformation pummelling an undisclosed isolated target & due the disconnect surrounding that individual/family, utilising infrastructure to offer “degrees” and rewards for tasks that are essentially abusive whilst posing as moral agency; ongoing and part of clandestine “congregation building” for further utility in wider contexts and applications. Various. Or even incognito stalking replicating JW strategy around a target in a social context? Who would arrange such a fiasco? Network their family & fund repeat “love bombing” as a technique with an unknown agenda? “Secular preaching” splitting techniques as wider advantage to subversion and “indoctrination”. Please advise? Well concealed malevolence deliberating removals of all respectful trust or dialogue. A capitalist/fascist agenda as its evidence based motive with how the individual or target group realises they are being treated; any which way. Obviously zero lucidity (ostracisation); as if divine and morally superior – but posing “religious hack strategy” for hidden agendas. Telephone engineers will be just one “converted shadow JW” – ministerial servant to the elders commands and feedback to their governing body. Other “congregations” make a chain that stretches. Their “scripture” is interesting but it’s beyond the scope of this reply. Feel free to inform and educate me; life is so lonely its difficult to access reliable information.
Ray: Now I know you are just playing around and that is fine, having fun with words and phrases and sounding “far out”. Ok, but I don’t have time for this at the moment but I must say your words can be entertaining and they were. You should be a song writer for Bob Dylan.
Maybe, like you, I ought try a pseudonym? It did cross my mind you were one of the aforementioned? Who would know?
I’m here too long already. Hardly worth my brief call – as they say. Lucidity is rare in any context!
Adios.
Ray: You never know? I might be part of the “Great Conspiracy” of the Free Masons like the WT is. As the WT slowly and insidiously tries to take over the world with it’s subliminal messages.Free Masons are great brick layers.
@RAY. I thought RAY was a pseudonym?
I mean it is such an original name. You might as well publish your last name, telephone number, email address also and address of your house
so you can have the Elders and C.O.pay you a direct “HIT” I mean visit.
DEAR John
Could you help me today? I need some advice. I recently disassociated. My wife is waking up and I need to help her before she tells the c.o. what she thinks and is dfd. Her whole family are in the cult so she has much to lose….. I need to protect her. Please call or email me if you cant afford long distance. Thanks in advance,
Will a ministerial servant be disfellowshipped if he allowed his kids to play football ?
No, he won’t be DF’s but he may be removed as a MS for not setting a good example according to the JW’s. I was an Elder and my son signed up to play
baseball and they told me if he did I would be removed as a servant!
Stupid religion.
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To all opponents of JW’s:
If the JW’s are not God’s true people, then why are YOU not preaching “the real Bible-based teachings” about God’s kingdom and Jesus if you know it better? Instead of wasting all your energy, and only criticize the JW’s, YOU should give a good example how to live as true loving and peaceful Christians. YOU should go and preach the good news of God’s kingdom in all the inhabited earth (if YOU really know it better then the JW’s and also have the strength and love to do that?) since that is the command that Jesus gave! But YOU prefer to gossip about JW’s, have YOU ever thought about that?
God’s people in the past (the Jews) made a lot of mistakes. JW’s and their governing body also are not perfect and they make mistakes, but I believe they sincerely do their best to serve Jehovah God, they improve their understanding of Scripture in time, where necessary, and that is a good thing… ;-)
Dear Defender, if you come to this site and read it more than the one time that it seems that you have been here and commenting, you will see that none of us every gossip about JW’s. We have been Witnesses and are telling about what happened to us and our families. We aren’t gossiping but telling true experiences.
I was a Witness for almost fifty years of my sixty nine years of my life and all during that time I was sincere and believed that I was preaching what I believed to be the truth and I believe that most JW’s also are sincere and preaching what the believe to be the truth as well.
People making mistakes is not the problem with the JW religion. It’s the deliberate preaching of lies if what is the problem and the cover up of child abusers.
If you can show us that the JW religion is directed by God’s holy spirit, I would believe that it’s the “truth” and I would go back. Do you have any proof that Jehovah and Jesus chose the JW religion in 1919 like the Society likes to claim? Do you know what the religion was teaching and preaching in those days that would have made it different and the one Jesus would have chosen as his one and only true religion?
It doesn’t do any good to be preaching any religious doctrine if you can’t prove it to be from God. Just turning out literature and going to meetings, doesn’t make it the “truth”. It can’t be lying to it’s followers. Anybody can take the Bible and make it into a religion but when that religion takes facts of history (Jerusalem being destroyed in 586/587 instead of 607 B.C.E.) and deliberately lies about it to twist and turn it into 1914 can’t be from God.
Why would I want to start my own religion? I don’t need to start my own religion and people don’t need to belong to a religion to be pleasing to God. All doomsday religions use the Bible to scare people into belonging to it. The Watchtower religion does the same as all the other ones that use hell fire. Watchtower just uses the threat of Armageddon instead.
People have been fooled into believing that they aren’t smart enough to understand the Bible and need the “clergy” to explain it to them. Why would God make a Bible that people can’t understand if he was going to kill them off for not following what it says if they can’t even understand it? That makes no sense.
You and all the rest of “Christian” religions have been fooled into thinking you need the clergy to explain the Bible to you but you are just a pawn or a tool for them to exploit.
Hello Caroline,
(My English is not so good, so it takes me a while to write this.)
People can study the Bible teachings and are convinced that it is the truth or not.
I am not born as JW and I can tell you that I have personal proof in my life (many times) that Gods holy spirit is active in the WT organisation, it is my personal experience and Jehovah gave me proof (because I had my doubts whether this is his organization), and if Gods spirit is active there, then that is the proof! I have seen Gods holy spirit in action (but not with spectacular wonders and signs), another might not believe what I have experienced, but for me there is no doubt of Gods guidance. One must use the spiritual eye to see Gods guidance! I believe God must have led you also in holy spirit in those 50 years, and obviously you have not seen it… ;-)
But even without my experiences, I would think that there is only one organisation in this world that is zealously doing what Jesus said in Acts 1:8: “But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Judea and Samaria, and to the most distant part of the earth.” This verse clearly states that the holy spirit would give power (love, joy, desire…) to preach the good news, it would not keep doing wonders and give proof to the people with spectacular signs (that is what Satan nowadays does disguised as an angel of light within other “Christian” groups)! I don’t believe anyone can be an active witness joyfully in all their life without Gods spirit, and that also is a proof of Gods holy spirit in action, because there are many examples of witnesses in the WT who have joyfully persevered throughout their lives till death (Galatians 5: 22-23 “…the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control…”).
About the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E., there are also scholars (and other Bible researchers) who absolutely agree with the WT that it is 607 and not 587, then the 2520 years from 607 until 1914 is correct. Secular scholars often present dates as facts when it really is not true, they have no interest in being overly accurate when it comes to the Biblical chronology! I have carefully studied the reliable Biblical chronology and am convinced that the difference of 20 years is well explained by the WT.
You wrote: “You and all the rest of “Christian” religions have been fooled into thinking you need the clergy to explain the Bible to you but you are just a pawn or a tool for them to exploit.”
I think you are right that other religions (also so-called “Christian”) have been fooled! But there must be the one true religion/organisation that is in Gods control, and as I wrote earlier, experience under the guidance of Gods spirit convinced me that it is the WT. There are many people who need a lot of explanation to understand the Bible, and there are people who understand it easier and also discover new things themselves. In the past, Jehovah always used his servants to explain his words to the people, and that is how Jehovah does it in these days too. There must be organization, otherwise it becomes a chaos! The WT uses the Biblical example from the first century to lead Gods organization at this time. In the first century the governing body had to make decisions themselves also in organizational issues etc. for that time, but as in the past, the organization consists of imperfect people and mistakes are made, that does not mean that the organization is no longer Gods, when things go wrong Jehovah and Jesus will intervene to revise misunderstandings in time!
Another proof that the WT/JW’s enjoys Gods blessing and guidance of His holy spirit: Especially in the large meetings, the love and joy among the witnesses is very clearly, just look in their eyes, mostly they will shine (if the person is sincere and pure)! Where does this blessing of love and joy come from, while there is a great lack of love in the world? Jesus said that this love would be the sign that he is with them! If the holy spirit works in the witnesses hearts than it will logically also work within the governing body because they are organizing the meetings. People must look with their spiritual eye and then they will see Gods guidance and spirit in action, but only if they are sincere and pure…
Because my English writing is not so good I can not go too much in detail and this will be my last comment and testimony here. Currently I am also not active in the WT but that is because of my own (health)problems and mistakes, but after all I have seen and experienced in person I can not doubt that the WT is Jehovah’s organization where his holy spirit operates! Bible knowledge in the WT is becoming more accurate over time by study, but only a sincere and pure heart can understands and accept the true Bible teachings. In Matthew 11:25 Jesus said: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children.”
Finally, I wish you, me, and all who read this much happiness and renewed peace with Jehovah and his sincere true people, because not everyone in the organization is a sincere witness and those are usually the ones who were born in the truth and don’t understand it (yet) with their heart…
Sincerely Defender :-)
Hello Defender again.
Your English is excellent. I hope you keep commenting here. You have excellent points that most Jehovah’s Witnesses would come up with to defend the JW faith and it gives us opportunities to refute them, one by one, so thank you very much for coming here and trying to defend your faith even though you are going against the advice from the Society to keep you off of sites like this like Roland said.
Like you, I was also not brought up in the JW religion, so we have something in common. I also believed with all my heart that Jehovah was directing the Organization until I realized that the Society was lying about 607 B.C.E. and I began to study the history of the Organization to see whether or not it really was the “truth” or not the “truth” and I was shocked to see the real history of the Organization and how the Society deliberately covers it up.
You need to not be afraid to find out the real history of the Organization around 1919 and beyond to see if God actually chose it as his spokesman at that time.
Last summer Geoffrey Jackson was asked that question at the Australian Royal Commission’s investigation into the rampant cover up of child abuse in the Organization over the last 65 years and Geoffrey Jackson said it would be presumptuous to say that Jehovah’s Witnesses are the only ones doing God’s will. You should take the time to see Geoffrey Jackson’s testimony and how he lied about not knowing about disfellowshipping too on Youtube.
We all know that we are not allowed to examine our own religion to see if it stands up to the Bible or not under the threat of disfellowshipping. If we understand a certain scripture and the Society is wrong about it, we are to keep quiet or we will be disfellowshipped for it. Does that sound right to you or scary?
Many years ago when I first became a Witness, a person could not get a scriptural divorce if their mate had sex with another person of the same sex or even an animal. Do you know what the reason for that thinking and teaching was? It was because having sex with the same sex or an animal could not produce a child.
I remember arguing with my husband at the time and he told me that I had to keep my thoughts to myself or else I’d be disfellowshipped for causing divisions and to wait on Jehovah. The Society eventually changed that teaching but at the time, I was very new in the “truth” and even then, I understood a lot more about what would be right and what would be wrong so those men in New York have no special insight at all.
They are just ordinary men with ordinary and sometimes ignorant understanding and yet over eight million people have to go along with every understanding those men have, no matter whether they are right or wrong and we are not allowed to even question it because they claim they get special insight from Jehovah but yet say they aren’t inspired. There is no reason we have to go along with everything they say because unless they can prove that they have been appointed by God, then they are being presumptuous just as Geoffrey Jackson admitted.
Just so you know, the Watchtower in the November 1, 2011 page 23 said this in a footnote on the topic of when was Jerusalem destroyed in 607 or 586/587 B.C.E.
“*Note: None of the secular experts quoted in this article hold that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C.E.”
In your comment you said: “there are also scholars (and other Bible researchers) who absolutely agree with the WT that it is 607 and not 587, then the 2520 years from 607 until 1914 is correct.”
Can you name even one of those scholars or Bible researchers? Then when it comes to coming up with the year 1914, what does that have to do with anything? The Watchtower taught that 1914 was going to be the end of Armageddon, not the time when Jesus would begin his invisible rule. The Society taught that Jesus began his invisible rule in 1874 until the year 1943. That fact is printed in the Proclaimers book on page 133.
The Society deliberately teaches untruths. No self-respecting God needs an organization that stoops to lies to teach people the Bible.
I don’t know about individual witnesses and their mistakes. But I trust this, when members of the governing body make serious mistakes Jehovah and Jesus will intervene in time, and most of the problems you mentioned were clarified, all other problems will be fixed by Jesus on time! Nobody is without mistakes, we all (me, you, and Geoffrey Jackson also) are imperfect! The first 12 apostles had their flaws too…
Bible knowledge increases with time, which is the result of thorough study. In zeal and enthusiasm the WT have had wrong expectations of the time of the end and maid mistakes in the past. But the first century Christians had wrong expectations also and that did not mean they were not guided by Gods spirit, Acts 1:6-8 says: “So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” 7 He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction. 8 But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Judea and Samaria, and to the most distant part of the earth.””. JW’s certainly have the power to witness zealously and joyfully with love about Gods kingdom! Would it not be possible that that is the proof that Gods spirit is with them?!
Dates are not supposed to be important to continue to serve the true God, that’s just study and refine our knowledge of the Biblical chronology, the intention must be to worship Jehovah forever with fellow believers and witness about Jesus and Gods Kingdom! Even if the end of this system of things would come after 10000 years from now…
But as I wrote, I have personally experienced Gods spirit working in the WT organisation and my personal life, and that’s the proof for me that it is Jehovah’s organisation and it stays His till the end (and beginning of the new world). Gods spirit is the proof that He is with you (and WT as organisation) or not.
For the year 1914 and the beginning of the 2520 years: Many scholars also agree on the date 537 B.C.E when the Jews returned after 70 years in exile, so 70 years before 537 B.C.E brings us in 607 B.C.E and de beginning of the exile, then the 2520 years ends in 1914 (the war in heaven and first world-war on earth?). The 2520 years began when the last Jewish king Zedekiah was removed from his throne and the future true King Jesus would get this throne in Gods Kingdom in heaven. But you must know all this if you were a JW for 50 years. Those scholars and Bible researchers who agree with JW’s 607 B.C.E you can find on google if you search, I can not find it back now but they are there, I have seen them! ;-)
There is many other proof, which I myself discovered, that the dates are correct, and de Biblical chronology is right! People should examine themselves, but one must also trust and believe that the Bible is true, reliable, and inspired by God, and human sources have flaws…
One can investigate this all in private at home on http://www.jw.org/en and http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/h/r1/lp-e
This is my last comment here, I wish you all the best.
Sincerely :-)
Dear Defender. I hope you keep coming back here and commenting. Your comments are clear and understandable and you don’t need to apologize for your English and it gives us the opportunity to respond to your reasons for wanting to defend the JW religion, of which I discovered to find out was a deceitful and dangerous cult.
When it comes to the blood doctrine, you are very wrong about saying that the Bible is clear about blood. The Bible only says to refrain from blood but when it came to the Israelites under Moses, the law from Jehovah was that if they came across a dead animal and ate it, that they were unclean until evening. Please read this article below and you will see how the Society skirts the problem of the problem with that scripture from the Mosaic Law from Deut. 14:21.
http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVicHvtZW9r4A_o8nnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByOHZyb21tBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg–/RV=2/RE=1456942727/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fajwrb.org%2fbible%2fquestions-from-readers/RK=0/RS=LwziI8cfUlKOTA88.ctVjQFoe3A-
Were you implying that Geoffrey Jackson made a serious mistake when he said that it was presumptuous to say that only the JW religion was God’s spokesman on earth today when you said “You are wrong when you said “when members of the governing body make serious mistakes”?
You must know, if you have been associated with the Witnesses for any length of time that the Governing Body is only the Governing Body when they meet on Wednesdays as a group. Otherwise, they are individual members as you said. If they are speaking as a group in the literature, they are supposedly getting their information straight from Jehovah and Jesus through Holy Spirit and so it wouldn’t make any sense to say “Jehovah and Jesus will intervene in time, and most of the problems you mentioned were clarified, all other problems will be fixed by Jesus on time!”
If Jehovah and Jesus are directing the Organization, why would Jesus and Jehovah have to intervene to fix any of the problems? Do you see any problem with this kind of thinking? Think about it. Why would Jehovah and Jesus have to fix the problems with understanding if Jesus and Jehovah are directing the Organization with Holy Spirit?
The Society is flying by the seat of their pants when it comes to understanding the Bible.
The Society is a man made religion that makes good use of Bible passages to promote it’s real estate empire and it uses gullible and innocent people who long for a peaceful new world where they will see their dead relatives again and where they won’t have to suffer and die.
It is the same promise that Satan offered to Eve if she ate of the fruit. It is no different than any other religion that uses the hope of an eternal afterlife in heaven to attract followers. There is no scripture in the Bible that says that God is going to restore the earth to a paradise where nobody is going to die. If you can find that scripture, I’d be curious where it is.
Every scripture that talks about people never dying again, is found in Revelation where those people are in heaven, including the great crowd who come through Armageddon. They aren’t called the great crowd until they come through Armageddon and they are in heaven.
The Society comes up with all kinds of explanations to make Witnesses think the earth is going to be turned into a paradise next week but it’s a ploy to get us interested and keep us in and every day that goes by, is one more day supporting an Organization that is out to make money to buy up more real estate and you are being exploited for your money and your free labor.
Hello Caroline,
You wrote: “I discovered to find out was a deceitful and dangerous cult.”
For 50 years you were in de WT, but you did not think that way in that time I think, and other JW’s never experienced it that way till death, they had Jehovah blessing and they were happy most of the time. :-)
You wrote: “The Bible only says to refrain from blood but when it came to the Israelites under Moses, the law from Jehovah was that if they came across a dead animal and ate it, that they were unclean until evening.”
It’s much better to do your best not to get unclean and stay pure in Gods eyes. Acts 15:27-29 says: “For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from BLOOD, from what is STRANGLED, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”
You wrote: “If they are speaking as a group in the literature, they are supposedly getting their information straight from Jehovah and Jesus through Holy Spirit…”
There is a difference between inspiration of the Bible (which was infallibly guided by God), but the GB group seeks the help of Gods holy spirit to be guided by the inspired word of God as well as possible and necessary at that time. But as imperfect people they can interpret something wrong (the facts show however that the interpretation is only getting clearer and more refined in time). That’s what the apostles in the first century also did on issues such as circumcision, they looked in the Scriptures. Gods people in the past (Noah, Abraham Moses ec.) were also led by God but did not know everything right away. At His appointed time, God apparently helps to understand more and more about his plan and understanding it. The Jews had the Bible for centuries, and studying it with zeal, but did not understand everything about the Messiah. When Jesus came He explained what was needed at that time, still most people did not understand. Daniel wrote his Bible-book, but he also did not understand what it was exactly about etc.. The Bible shows that God has acted that way in the past. I can understand very well that this is not easy to understand, but those are the facts and in our time God also works that way. So, if GB/WT is guided by Gods spirit that not means God immediately reveals them everything, only what is needed at this time. Jesus clearly said that he would appoint a slave to organize the gospel and his disciples! It is true that the WT/GB have been overconfident in the past to explain things that they have not understood well enough, but that does not mean that God had rejected him therefore, individual members of the GB were however excluded in the past (if I remember correctly). I have already written that I have experienced the action of the holy spirit in the WT-society and my personal life, and that to me is clear proof that it is Jehovah’s organization and not the GB’s, they also have to be accountable to Jehovah for their acts if they do wrong!
You wrote: “There is no scripture in the Bible that says that God is going to restore the earth to a paradise where nobody is going to die.”
It’s very strange that you do not know the answers on that anymore after 50 years in the WT. Because that’s what the Bible is about, loss of eternal life in the Garden of Eden and the restoration of eternal life in the future earthly paradise through the sacrifice of Jesus and the heavenly government of God, the 144000 humans who go to heaven have the task to rule with Jesus to carry out Gods original purpose for the earth, as it was intended for Adam and Eve, all other people will live forever on earth and will make it a paradise! In Luke 23:42-43 Jesus said: “And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.” John 3:13-16 says: “Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man. 14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so the Son of man must be lifted up, 15 so that everyone believing in him may have everlasting life. 16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.” (on paradise earth just like Adam and Eve)
Dear Caroline, this is my last comment. The Biblical interpretation of the WT in this matters are true, if you are willing to examine it again to refresh your knowledge of biblical teachings, you can find it all on http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/h/r1/lp-e and a good book to help is http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-study/
I wish you, me, and everyone here (renewed) peace with Jehovah, and much happiness! Know that Jehovah is the only true God and Jesus is His son, and the WT are used by them as their organisation in this time, that’s all I can say about it, on http://www.jw.org/en one can find everything needed to come to a better understanding of the Bible! But we can only understand it with the help of Gods spirit and a sincere and pure heart. Jesus said in John 4:23-24 “Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.””
Sincerely :-)
Hello Caroline,
You wrote: (“I discovered to find out was a deceitful and dangerous cult.”)
For 50 years you were in de WT, but you did not think that way in that time I think, and other JW’s never experienced it that way till death, they had Jehovah blessing and they were happy most of the time. :-)
(“The Bible only says to refrain from blood but when it came to the Israelites under Moses, the law from Jehovah was that if they came across a dead animal and ate it, that they were unclean until evening.”)
It’s much better to do your best not to get unclean and stay pure in Gods eyes. Acts 15:27-29 says: “For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from BLOOD, from what is STRANGLED, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”
(“If they are speaking as a group in the literature, they are supposedly getting their information straight from Jehovah and Jesus through Holy Spirit…”)
There is a difference between inspiration of the Bible – which was infallibly guided by God, but the GB group seeks the help of Gods holy spirit to be guided by the inspired word of God as well as possible and necessary at that time. But as imperfect people they can interpret something wrong – the facts show however that the interpretation is only getting clearer and more refined in time. That’s what the apostles in the first century also did on issues such as circumcision, they looked in the Scriptures. Gods people in the past – Noah, Abraham Moses ec. – were also led by God but did not know everything right away. At His appointed time, God apparently helps to understand more and more about his plan and understanding it. The Jews had the Bible for centuries, and studying it with zeal, but did not understand everything about the Messiah. When Jesus came He explained what was needed at that time, still most people did not understand. Daniel wrote his Bible-book, but he also did not understand what it was exactly about etc.. The Bible shows that God has acted that way in the past. I can understand very well that this is not easy to understand, but those are the facts and in our time God also works that way. So, if GB/WT is guided by Gods spirit that not means God immediately reveals them everything, only what is needed at this time. Jesus clearly said that he would appoint a slave to organize the gospel and his disciples! It is true that the WT/GB have been overconfident in the past to explain things that they have not understood well enough, but that does not mean that God had rejected them therefore, individual members of the GB were however excluded in the past – if I remember correctly. I have already written that I have experienced the action of the holy spirit in the WT-society and my personal life, and that to me is clear proof that it is Jehovah’s organization and not the GB’s, they also have to be accountable to Jehovah for their acts if they do wrong!
(“There is no scripture in the Bible that says that God is going to restore the earth to a paradise where nobody is going to die.”)
It’s very strange that you do not know the answers on that anymore after 50 years in the WT. Because that’s what the Bible is about, loss of eternal life in the Garden of Eden and the restoration of eternal life in the future earthly paradise through the sacrifice of Jesus and the heavenly government of God, the 144000 humans who go to heaven have the task to rule with Jesus to carry out Gods original purpose for the earth, as it was intended for Adam and Eve, all other people will live forever on earth and will make it a paradise! In Luke 23:42-43 Jesus said: “And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.” John 3:13-16 says: “Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man. 14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so the Son of man must be lifted up, 15 so that everyone believing in him may have everlasting life. 16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.”
Everlasting life on paradise earth just like Adam and Eve.
Caroline, this is my last comment here. The biblical interpretation of the WT in this matters are true, if you are willing to examine it again to refresh your knowledge of biblical teachings, you can find it all on http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/h/r1/lp-e and a good book to help is on http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-study/
I wish you, and everyone here (renewed) peace with Jehovah! Know that Jehovah is the only true God and Jesus is His son, on http://www.jw.org/en one can find everything needed to come to a better understanding of the Bible! But we can only understand it with the help of Gods spirit. Jesus said in John 4:23-24 “Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.””
Sincerely :-)
Hello Caroline,
I would like to answer the issues you posed in your last comment.
You wrote: (“I discovered to find out was a deceitful and dangerous cult.”)
I know many JW’s that never experienced it that way till death, they had Jehovah blessing and they were happy most of the time. :-)
(“The Bible only says to refrain from blood but when it came to the Israelites under Moses, the law from Jehovah was that if they came across a dead animal and ate it, that they were unclean until evening.”)
It’s much better to do your best not to get unclean and stay pure in Gods eyes. Acts 15:27-29 says: “For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from BLOOD, from what is STRANGLED, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”
(“If they are speaking as a group in the literature, they are supposedly getting their information straight from Jehovah and Jesus through Holy Spirit…”)
There is a difference between inspiration of the Bible – which was infallibly guided by God, but the GB group seeks the help of Gods holy spirit to be guided by the inspired word of God as well as possible and necessary at that time. But as imperfect people they can interpret something wrong – the facts show however that the interpretation is only getting clearer and more refined in time. That’s what the apostles in the first century also did on issues such as circumcision, they looked in the Scriptures. Gods people in the past – Noah, Abraham Moses ec. – were also led by God but did not know everything right away. At His appointed time, God apparently helps to understand more and more about his plan and understanding it. The Jews had the Bible for centuries, and studying it with zeal, but did not understand everything about the Messiah. When Jesus came He explained what was needed at that time, still most people did not understand. Daniel wrote his Bible-book, but he also did not understand what it was exactly about etc.. The Bible shows that God has acted that way in the past. I can understand very well that this is not easy to understand, but those are the facts and in our time God also works that way. So, if GB/WT is guided by Gods spirit that not means God immediately reveals them everything, only what is needed at this time. Jesus clearly said that he would appoint a slave to organize the gospel and his disciples! It is true that the WT/GB have been overconfident in the past to explain things that they have not understood well enough, but that does not mean that God had rejected them therefore, individual members of the GB were however excluded in the past, if I remember correctly. I have already written that I have experienced the action of the holy spirit in the WT-society and my personal life, and that to me is clear proof that it is Jehovah’s organization and not the GB’s, they also have to be accountable to Jehovah for their acts if they do wrong!
(“There is no scripture in the Bible that says that God is going to restore the earth to a paradise where nobody is going to die.”)
As a former JW you must know that the Bible is about loss of eternal life in the Garden of Eden and the restoration of eternal life in the future earthly paradise through the sacrifice of Jesus and the heavenly government of God, the 144000 humans who go to heaven have the task to rule with Jesus to carry out Gods original purpose for the earth, as it was intended for Adam and Eve, all other people will live forever on earth and will make it a paradise! In Luke 23:42-43 Jesus said: “And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.” John 3:13-16 says: “Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man. 14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so the Son of man must be lifted up, 15 so that everyone believing in him may have everlasting life. 16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.”
Everlasting life on paradise earth just like Adam and Eve.
If someone wants to examine it again to refresh knowledge of biblical teachings, then there is a good book to help on http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-study/ Look up the cited scriptures, then one will see that the statements are in line with de Bible.
We can only understand the Bilbe, and live by it, with the help of Gods spirit. Jesus said in John 4:23-24 “Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.””
Caroline, this is really my last comment, I wish you, and everyone here the best!
Sincerely :-)
Defender, again I ask you again to produce even on scripture in the Bible that says that the great crowd are on the earth after Armageddon.
That is what I preached from door to door and believed for fifty years until I actually tried to find it in the Bible. The Society likes to explain it away but in the book of Revelation, it clearly says that the great crowd are in heaven after the battle of Armageddon. When the Bible says that the tent of God is with mankind, it does not say they are on the earth but in heaven. I believed that and preached it for fifty years without even one scripture to back it up. I just believed everything the Watchtower said, thinking it was in the Bible and you are doing the same thing.
When you read any literature from the Watchtower, either on jw.org or printed, look to see how many times they will say something like: seems to be, evidently or anything like that if it’s not clear in the Bible. Jesus said he had other sheep. He didn’t say I have other sheep called the great crowd. When he said I have other sheep, he was referring to Gentiles.
I don’t know if you realize it or not, but you do not even have a mediator between Jehovah and yourself. The Governing Body has reserved that right to themselves in claiming to be the ones that Jehovah speaks to and Jesus is only their mediator between them and Jehovah. If you don’t believe me, then look it up in the Insight on The Scriptures volume two to see it for yourself.
You can’t even pray to God by yourself and expect to be heard. You are only “benefiting” from being in association with the anointed or the Governing Body when they claim the only right to approach God through Jesus Christ. God doesn’t listen to your prayers unless you are of the anointed, according to the Watchtower Society and you are present during a meeting when they are offering up a prayer.
When it comes to the Memorial and you pass the emblems and don’t partake, you are actually going against what the Bible Teach books says on page 206 where it says: “Christians are commanded to observe the Memorial of Christ’s death.”
Are you observing the Memorial or are you an observer? If you are an observer, then you are not a true Christian, even according to the Bible teach book. Think about it. When you claim to be a true Christian and you pass the emblems and don’t partake, you are grieving the Holy Spirit in that you are showing deliberate disrespect for Jesus’ death for you (John 6:53-58) and as Jesus says there, you have no life in yourself and you will not live forever.
Please make other comments here. I think you are counting time but it gives us opportunity to answer some of your apologetics defending your faith. You are probably doing more harm then good in defending the JW religion but there is no harm in trying, is there?
Please answer Cedars’ challenge and I will come back to the meetings.
https://youtu.be/lZ2lMsmjQY0
Caroline, you’ll find all the answers on http://www.jw.org/en if want to, that’s something you will have to do yourself and play to Jehovah to understand it again!
For me there is no doubt that what I (and other witnesses) believe is consistent with the Bible and true, but we continue to study the Bible and keep learning. Personally, I have experienced the irrefutable evidence of Jehovah’s holy spirit in my life many times, that’s the proof that Jehovah is my God and Jesus is my mediator ec..
God placed Adam and Eve on earth to live there forever, and they had to fill the earth with their children, that was and is Gods will. In Matthew 6:10 Jesus prayed: “Let your Kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, ALSO ON EARTH.”
Gods will for the earth has not changed, people will live on earth and have eternal life on earth, that was and is God’s will!
I have described everything in my earlier comments.
If people seek the truth sincere with humility, then Jehovah can help them, and open their heart (again) to understand the truth…
I wish you the best, bye! :-)
Please explain, Defender, why you choose to defy your divinely appointed bosses in New York and visit and contribute to apostate websites. If your Jehovah really exists he will know that you have defied the orders of his one true earthly agent, and he will deal with you accordingly.
Fear not, though, Defender – JW doctrine is indefensible. If there is a god it would have nothing whatever to do with an organistaiton whose sum total of achievements in its 137 year existence amounts to the following:
1. A series of duff prophecies about the date for Armageddon.
2. Thousands of needless deaths, since 1945, from the ever changing blood transfusion edicts.
3. Split families through the orders to shun apostates.
4. Stunted lives through the frowning on education once the ability to read and parrot JW lit. has been acquired.
5. Protection of paedophiles through the 2 witness rule.
6. Nightmares about Armageddon.
7. Mastery of the dark arts of cult mind control.
8 No 7 above, has enabled the Watchtower, via its millions of unpaid mag pushers, to amass a global publishing and property empire.
Here’s to your escape from Watchtower’s clutches and subsequent recovery!
Rowland, I came here because I googled JW and then I clicked on this site and I looked around here.
The points you are quoting are biblical refutable, the Bible is clear about the use of blood and exclusion of persistent sinners, the WT follows the biblical example given by God under His inspiration.
If one is obedient to God then there are no nightmares about Armageddon! ;-)
As I wrote earlier, in zeal and enthusiasm the WT have had wrong expectations of the time of the end and maid mistakes. But the first century Christians had wrong expectations also and that did not mean they were not guided by God, Acts 1:6-8 says: “So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” 7 He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction. 8 But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Judea and Samaria, and to the most distant part of the earth.””. JW’s certainly have the power to witness zealously and joyfully about Gods kingdom! Would it not be possible that that is the proof that Gods spirit is with them?!
If you like you can read more of my experience and testimony here: http://jwsurvey.org/about-jw-survey/comment-page-7#comment-55447
(This is my last comment here, my English writing is not so good/fast, sorry, but you can visit http://www.jw.org/en/ to find out more, and there you can also request a Bible study if you want…)
Best regards :-)
”God’s people in the past (the Jews) made a lot of mistakes.” Precisely why the kingdom was not given to them (those in the flesh) and given to the gentiles.
Now again, if you wish to use the sincerity card, then that would certainly apply to any serious student of the bible in ANY christian denomination.
There was an awkward time when a sincere JW wasnt expected to login onto forums for unnecessary debate with fading JWs or ‘mentally diseased ‘people . So I understand you of all people should respect our stand, and let us share our experiences.
The JW Gov. Bod. cannot have it both ways. If, as you note, Defender, the JW Gov Bod are but imperfect men liable to make mistakes, then they should cease labelling every one of their pronouncements as ‘THE TRUTH’. They are, thus being dishonest.
Honest men would label their statements’ Some ideas that we are kicking around just now’.
I understand your reluctance to acknowledge that the JW religion may not be true. The organisation demands of you such commitment, such forsaking of other ‘worldly’ pursuits, that leaving the organisation would leave you bereft, not only of that delusory feeling of superiority and divine election, but also, due to the cruel edict to shun apostates, of your principal social contacts.
We have never met, Defender, but I am confidemt that your life is worth far more than to be merely an unpaid distributor of the magazines produced by a global publishing corporation which cares for you only as someone who can augment its capital value.
My feeling of relief, once I realised that JW TRUTH is not true, and that the organisation is a fraud, was one of immense relief. My experience is mirrored by that of countless thousands of ex JWs. Together, many of us now seek to warn the world of the dangers of association with this seedy little corner of Christendom (Yes, I know, I was a JW; the Watchtower likes to imagine it is not part of christendom, but as a late 19th century Adventist spinoff sect, how else can it be described? It operates, not on Mars but on Planet Earth, so it is also part of the world!)
I am glad you have defied your leaders and ventured on to an apostate website. On Facebook and other sites you will find reassuring information about the condition of countless other ex JWs and their testimonies.
Here’s to your freedom and fulfilment!
You acknowledge, Defender, that the GB make mistakes. It is therfore utterly dishonest of them, and cruelly deceptive, when they label their every pronouncement as ‘THE TRUTH’.
I doubt, Defender, that you are truly a callous man, but the JW version of the Bible God certainly is. Where on earth is the justice in condemning to an Armageddon death the bulk of the world’s population, simply because we choose not to live our lives according to, and have our thoughts controlled by, the diktats of a bunch of men in New York?
The entire authority of the JW Gov Bod rests on their claim to be the ‘Faithful and Discreet Slave’ as referred to by Jesus in Matthew 24. I have asked countless JWs to provide evidence to support that preposterous claim. None has provided any.
Could it be that there is no evidence?
Do you, Defender, have any evidence?
As expected, Defender, no defence of the deceitful use of the word TRUTH by the Governing Body. If all they claim to offer is their current notions then they should be honest.
So, you are in thrall to seven dishonest men.
As expected, zero evidence to demonstrate that the JW Gov. Bod. are the Faithful and Discreet Slave as per Matthew 24. You can produce no evidence because there is none.
I note that you do not choose to reply to me, but to Caroline proceed with long and tortuous prose, peppered, JW style, with a fusillade of disconnected Bible quotes.
I do not expect you to address my points because I know you have nothing to say. It is abundantly clear that you, quite understandably, are desperate to maintain the illusion that JW TRUTH is true. Such is the efficiency of the WT mind control machine, that your entire identity is now bound up with imagining that you are ‘IN THE TRUTH’ and earmarked to be a privileged Armageddon survivor when your all loving Jehovah executes the bulk of humanity.
It may be diificult to believe, but countless thousands of JWs have woken up to the cruel deception inflicted on them over the years or even decades, and, no matter the sacrifice of family support and loss of social contacts, have invariably found life outside in this beautiful world, immeasurably more satisfying than being chained by the diktats of a bunch of guys in New York who care only about your ability to increase the capital value of their global publishing and property corporation.
Here’s wishing you freedom and peace of mind!
@Defender. Hi Defender. You sound sincere and that is fine but just bc you say you have felt Jehovah’s spirit many times that proves it is right. Many other religious people say and feel the same thing. Just bc someone “FEELS” a certain way does not prove anything. I was taught as a New JW that people can be Sincerely wrong. The proof would be in if the things they said came true that would prove they had Jehovah’s spirit and being an inactive JW myself I have to admit that NOTHING the WT has ever said has come true. Not one thing in 135 years. You mentioned that Jehovah is your God and your mediator is Jesus Christ. In actuality the WT teaches quite different than that. They teach that Jesus is only the Mediator for the 144000. Please look it up you will see that is what they teach. How do you feel about the new teaching on the overlapping generation? Do you honestly believe that or do you think they are just trying to give an answer as to why the 1914 generation died out without the end coming?
Do you NOW accept that the F&D slave is only the 7 men on the GB compared to all of the anointed at anytime on the earth? for decades they taught that it was all of the anointed so now a major change. Did Jesus and Jehovah give them wrong info? How about the change on Blood? Now you can take blood particles but not whole blood? Where does blood particles come from Defender? it comes from Whole blood and from people donating blood! How about the WT joining the UN about 15 yes ago very secretly and then when they got caught they abruptly resigned? If they were right about the UN why did they resign? Did Jehovah direct them to join the UN? Good questions for thinking persons.
I would appreciate an answer.
Do you not realise, Defender, that your messages are read by us folk who have already been through this ‘seeking truth with humility via diligent bible study directed by Jehovah’s appointed’ or whatever. We know the mind control methods of the Watchtower Society. Your very writing style betrays that you are the tragic dupe of their schemes.
JW.org is nothing more than the old printed stuff and dreary Kingdom Hall and Convention stuff delivered online. Your readership on here has done all you are urging and have seen the light.
There is no truth in JW TRUTH.
If it makes you feel better, no doubt, should you post again we will read a screed of JW recycled stuff with its blizzard of disconnected bible quotes.
What we will not get, judging by your past comments, is evidence for the Gov. Bod’s status as the Faithful and Discreet slave, justifications for the ever changing diktats on blood which are still sending victims to unnecessary deaths or answers to Holy Connoli’s query about the overlapping 1914 generation nonsense.
Please, Defender, for your own welfare, even if you care not to answer these difficult questions on here, address your mind to the queries of myself and Holy Connoli.
They will indeed help to free your mind and life of the poison infused by your long subjection to Watchtower indoctrination.
Best wishes!
Defender, I would like to add something else to Roland’s and Holy Connoli’s comments. How does your conscience allow you to teach the Watchtower as the “truth” when you know that they are lying about when Jerusalem was destroyed?
How do you live with your conscience when you know that if anybody easily finds out by looking in any encyclopedia to prove that the Society is lying about Jerusalem’s being destroyed in 607 B.C.E. but 586/587 instead and they show that to somebody in any encyclopedia that they will be disfellowshipped for talking about it?
The Society has known the true facts about 607 for decades and refuse to admit they are wrong. Who is directing the organization? If you think that Jehovah is going to correct that little problem in his due time, just how long are you willing to wait until you finally figure it out that the Society is being run by men and not any god?
The longer you are in the religion, the harder it is to get out. If you are young, you have your whole life ahead of you. Please do some research on the Organization before you go one more day, blindly following something you know nothing about. You only get one chance at life and even one day spent chasing lies, is one day you will never get back.
Jeanie. How nice of the the WT to “ALLOW” their followers to go tot community college? What business it is of theirs where the JW’s or anyone goes to college or school. None of their business unless the WT agrees to pay someone’s bills then shut up WT! The JW’s are one of the most undereducated region on earth. They are a Real Joke.
PLEASE MR. CEDARS DO VIDEOS ABOUT THEIR LEGAL TROUBLES LIKE IN PENNSYLVANIA. thank you sir.