News Bulletin: Secret Watchtower documents once again demanded in new US court case.
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campos-pedophile

Jehovah’s Witness and pedophile Gonzalo Campos

Only last week, we reported upon the latest development in the lawsuit that abuse survivor Jose Lopez is bringing against the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

Lopez was abused by Jehovah’s Witness Elder Gonzalo Campos, and alleges that Watchtower’s controversial policies on dealing with accusations of child abuse (policies which were heavily criticised by the Australian Royal Commission last year) significant contributed towards Campos’ ability to abuse him with apparent impunity.

Lopez’ lawsuit is still underway, but another survivor of Campos’ abuse has also come forward, and put the same allegations to a court of law.

His name is Osbaldo Padron.

As journalist Dorian Hargrove reports in the San Diego Reader, Padron alleges that his abuse occurred in 1994, after the events documented in the Lopez lawsuit, by which point the Watchtower organisation was already aware that Campos was a serial child rapist. Nevertheless, Watchtower elders allegedly failed to involve law enforcement and allowed Campos to continue serving as an elder, thus granting him the opportunity to carry out his attacks on Padron.

As Hargrove reports:

Padron filed his lawsuit in September 2013. Since filing…church officials and their attorneys have stonewalled in turning over documents, despite a March 2015 court order requiring them to do so.

Those who have followed the long-running story of Watchtower’s deepening child abuse scandal will remember this ruling, which took place as part of the ongoing lawsuit from Jose Lopez. Part of Lopez lawsuit alleged that, not only were Watchtower fully aware of Campos’ abusive acts, and had done nothing about them, but crucially that this fit a far larger pattern of such behaviour from Watchtower: a systemic failure to confront child molestation accusations in an effective manner, and a deliberate policy of not bringing such accusations to the attention of the authorities.

It was alleged that documents held by Watchtower prove this accusation; documents that list tens of thousands of alleged Jehovah’s Witness child molesters that the religion has failed to report or act upon, but has instead simply filed away.

The existence of these documents is no longer in dispute. During the Lopez lawsuit, the Judge agreed that these records, should they exist, were vital to proving the degree of Watchtower’s awareness of the problem, and their culpability in ignoring it.

In response, Watchtower’s lawyers admitted that these records exist, but ultimately refused to produce them, even going so far as to refuse a direct order from the court to do so.

As reported last week, an appeal court has confirmed that Watchtower must produce these records in the Lopez case or face severe consequences.

Now, it appears that the Padron case will be walking the exact same legal path with one slight difference; in Padron’s case, it appears that Watchtower did actually release some documents, but had carefully redacted them so heavily that they were useless.

Reports Hargrove:

“…Watchtower produced documents that redacted the names of victims, elders, perpetrators, congregations (as well as the addresses and contact information of the congregation), towns where abuse occurred, law enforcement agencies that investigated claims, and other material,” reads a newly filed court document. “The redactions are so extreme that Plaintiff cannot make use of them. Plaintiff submitted a sampling of these redacted documents to the discovery referee and this Court, who each agreed that the redactions are so broad as to undermine Plaintiff’s ability to use them.

“This court determined the requested documents were relevant, unprivileged, and that production would not be overly burdensome. This court also specifically addressed third party privacy, stating: ‘all personal, identifying information pertaining to any third party/victim should be redacted from the documents to address any privacy concerns.’”

He also reports that Patron’s legal team will be going before the court on Friday 29th April to make the following motion (bold is mine:)

In a court motion, Padron’s attorney, Irwin Zalkin, says the court must get tough with the church and issue terminating sanctions compelling church leaders and their attorneys to follow orders. If granted, terminating sanctions would impose fines on the church for each day it fails to turn over the documents. If the documents are still not produced after a reasonable amount of time, the judge could order dismissal of the case and render judgment against the Watchtower, the Playa Pacific Spanish Congregation, and Campos.

So it looks as though Padron’s case is going to walk the same path as the Lopez lawsuit. Watchtower is going to be faced with a choice: Hand over documents that could be as explosively damaging as the documents released in Australia last year that proved the religion had been hiding over 1000 molesters in its Australian congregations…

…or face multiple millions of dollars in damaging court fines, at a time when the religion is showing all the signs of serious financial concerns.

Either decision is going to come with a flood of harmful negative publicity that will further the strain the credibility of Watchtower leaders like Steven Lett when they claim that such reports of negligence and cover-up are simply “apostate lies.”

One wonders if Watchtower’s Governing Body would be brave enough to repeat this sweeping dismissal under oath before a legal process.

Oh wait. That’s right. They are not.

 

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Further reading:

Original San Diego Reader article by Dorian Hargrove

Documentary “Jehovah’s Witnesses and Child Abuse: Is there a problem?” by Lloyd Evens

Emmy award winning news website Reveal News is conducting an extensive investigation into Watchtower’s child abuse scandal. Their articles can be viewed here.

The Australian Royal Commission Investigation into The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Official Government website with transcripts and evidence available to download and view, including the transcript of testimony given by Governing Body member Geoffrey Jackson. Video footage of the above testimonies can be found here

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83 Responses to News Bulletin: Secret Watchtower documents once again demanded in new US court case.

  1. Any ‘world’organisation with a manager like Steven Lett, should be amazing to survive. So this ‘governing body’ runs a communistic system without any reality. It is like 1989 DDR times. All one way propaganda is not more helping. Close to bankrupt.

    • Join-Stay25Yrs-Leave says:

      Communism is a socioeconomic order structured upon the common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money, and the state.

      WT system has nothing to do with communism. There must be a different word you’re looking for.

  2. Tara says:

    Slowly the victims are coming forward.

    I’m a little confused. Can someone enlighten me.
    It say’s : This court also specifically addressed third party privacy, stating: ‘all personal, identifying information pertaining to any third party/victim should be redacted from the documents to address any privacy concerns.’”

    If the court said to do this then was the WT simply following orders or was it so extreme that they may as well of handed over a blank piece of paper? I’m confused as to where the legal line was to be drawn.

    • Doc Obvious says:

      Watchtower is editing the documents so much that it is rendered useless in a court of law. In other words, a cover up inside a cover up. That is why these cults survive in the United States. There is so much cover ups that the United States judicial system causes more problems than it solves.

    • Mike B says:

      They can remove 3rd party information to allow others to remain anonymous. So, they can redact that Fred was spoken to. All good.

      But the WT society has removed:
      Congregation (not a 3rd party requiring anonymity)
      contact details for the congregation
      the names of police officers involved (official duty and does not require anonymity… in fact, the opposite)
      etc

      The WT society is effectively pretending to cooperate – Theocratic Warfare! – while making the content so unusable to the plaintiff that it’s effectively worthless.

  3. James Broughton says:

    The Goddard report in the UK is also going to make for interesting reading. The Society will no longer be able to hide behind the “apostate lies” excuse but will have to face up to its misdemeanors. Delving into its history will reveal more that it bargained for.

    • Tara says:

      I mentioned these reports to a witness friend who hardly goes to meetings and she said ‘oh that’s journalism for you.’ I had to shake my head. They have no idea. They are in such a bubble and even the ones here who are fading still live in a bubble to some degree.

      • Chiafade says:

        Yep that’s journalism alright. Aren’t the watchtower and awake called journals? Therefore the writers are considered journalists. They also write sensationalistic stuff like “this time of the end” and “the end is so close brothers”. They, like all sensationalistic journalists, do it for the reaction.

        These are actual reports with court documents to back them up. The JWs will lump the true and false all together into one and reject everything wholesale. Doing exactly what they accused me of when I brought up these horrendous actions by watchtower. They said ” well these are things that Jehovah can clear up in HIS time not YOURS. Why throw out the baby with the bathwater? “…because the baby’s full of shit, nuff said.

        • Grace says:

          Chiafade,

          What an excellent comment. I never really thought about the sensationalism of the WT & Awake mags like that before. Especially considering none of it can be proven & you’re left relying on the deluded grandiosity of the writers that come up with these so-called holy spirit guided interpretations of scripture.

          My understanding is that the GB don’t write this stuff. Someone in the writing department comes up with it & they just approve it in their weekly GB meetings. So who is actually guided by the holy spirit?

          • Chiafade says:

            ” So who is actually guided by the holy spirit?”

            The answer to that is the legal department and the accounting department.

            You know, like when the tax laws changed in the late 80’s early 90’s. They couldn’t legally charge for their literature anymore so holy spirit inspired them to switch to a donation arrangement.

            Or more recently, many countries require that any school teacher (in Watchtowers case conductor or overseer) has to have a background check done. Low and behold the JWs had a theocratic ministry school and governments would now require that elders get a background check. How did holy spirit respond? By “inspiring” a change of the meeting name from “school” to “our Christian life and ministry” while maintaining a similar format.

            Holy spirit usually doesn’t inspire a change until human governments set a legal precedent. Legal precedents are like a door for holy spirit. It can’t and won’t act without them.

      • Ready 4 to Fade says:

        Yet, when journalism brought the Catholic Church to its knees in 2002 for child abuse, Watchtower was more than happy to jump on the condemnation bandwagon.

  4. Gary says:

    There are documents held by Watchtower that relate to child sex abuse and their perpetrators & they refuse to hand them over . . . why?
    The most senior member of the governing body distanced himself from involvement with the Watchtower, why?
    Eventually, I am convinced, all will be revealed.
    No one is condemning innocent JWs but nevertheless ” I was just following orders” just doesn’t cut it.

    • idkwhattocallmyself says:

      You got it 100%, we should all confront our still in relatives and ask them if they are “OK” being accessories to this and supporting Watchtower’s legal obfuscation to protect molesters and rapists.

    • Ready 4 to Fade says:

      My favorite quote in Spotlight: “If it takes a village to raise a child, you could also say it takes a village to allow one to be abused.” There is complicity in silence, everyone should be mandated by their own moral sense to report such a travesty.

  5. Gary says:

    If you’re conscience is a God given gift then don’t let anyone else abuse it, because as you can see, they will not be able to recall.

    • Chiafade says:

      ” So who is actually guided by the holy spirit?”

      The answer to that is the legal department and the accounting department.

      You know, like when the tax laws changed in the late 80’s early 90’s. They couldn’t legally charge for their literature anymore so holy spirit inspired them to switch to a donation arrangement.

      Or more recently, many countries require that any school teacher (in Watchtowers case conductor or overseer) has to have a background check done. Low and behold the JWs had a theocratic ministry school and governments would now require that elders get a background check. How did holy spirit respond? By “inspiring” a change of the meeting name from “school” to “our Christian life and ministry” while maintaining a similar format.

      Holy spirit usually doesn’t inspire a change until human governments set a legal precedent. Legal precedents are like a door for holy spirit. It can’t and won’t act without them.

      • Johnship says:

        I still take wife to meetings and can confirm they still refer to it as school.when they split into two schools.also i do nothing now but was asked if i would like to rejoin the “school” ..

      • Johnship says:

        I still take wife to meetings and can confirm they still refer to it as school.when they split into two schools.also i do nothing now but was asked if i would like to rejoin the “school” ..

        • Chiafade says:

          I have no doubt that they still refer to it that way in many halls. Old habits die hard. But you’ll notice that the kingdom Hall signs have been completely revamped and no mention is made of ANY school being conducted in that building. This is by design.

  6. wifibandit says:

    San Diego Superior Court (Civil)

    Case Number: 37-2013-00067529-CU-PO-CTL

  7. ruthlee says:

    The whole Governing Body should be on their knees in a perpetual vigil of prayer for several reasons: They should pray Prince leaves them all his hard earned cash so they can complete Warwick ,pay off their lawsuits and cheap suits. They could pay off the kids with a tidy sum of hush money without ouching their own personal stash. They should pray that their god loves a paradise in Warwick just for them and pull the drawbridge up so the nasty amharets cannot get a peak. They could start their own paradise driving around in little red corvettes. And their final round of prayer should probably be that god does not actually exist or He will punish them ALL for their sordid games, lying under oath and allowing children to get raped. would not want their Warwick paradise for one day. One day there will be justice and it cannot come too soon. Ruthlee

  8. Meredith J says:

    I was reading my Revised Standard Bible the other day and it was in Luke 21:8 where I realised this was referring to the Watchtower specifically. “And he said, “Take heed that you are not led astray: for many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he!’ and, “The time is at hand!’ Do not go after them. Why didn’t we see that? It was written there for us to see but our eyes were so blinded that we could not see it. When they were telling us that we were in the time of Christ’s Presence, which is pretty much the same as “I am he”, we were being set up just like Jesus warned. If anyone doubts and blames God, then they need to read this scripture again to really get the picture. In no way did Jesus want this to happen and he is not responsible for the damage that has been done. The warning was there. We just didn’t notice it.

    We weren’t being guided by the Holy Spirit and neither were the elders. It was just a con. So don’t blame God for all of this. He did not do it. The real Holy Spirit still exists and so does God and Jesus Christ and they have not changed. And the Bible proves true even more and more than when we first got conned.

    • Gary says:

      Many will come on the basis of my name saying Iam the Christ (Greek translation. . .anointed) food for thought indeed.

    • BeenMislead says:

      Yes, Russell also actually published a volume of the “Studies In The Scriptures” containing date predictions and which was entitled: “The Time is at Hand!”.

      But notice Jesus own words at Luke 21:8
      “And he said, “See that you are not led astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he!’ and, ‘The time is at hand!’ Do not go after them.” – (Luke 21:8, English Standard Version)

      This is what Jesus would have found Charles Taze Russell teaching when he did his inspection in 1919!

      Would Jesus choose them to be his organization when they were essentially preaching “The Time is At Hand” when he himself specifically told his followers not to go after men making such claims?

    • Meredith J says:

      Yes, the caption seemed like nearly every Watchtower magazine cover to me. I could not believe the prophecy. My Bible was translated around 1890. It was spot on. Also their translation is crap. One needs to look into the history of the researchers of Westcott and Hort to find them as atheists and worse, and I mean worse (just do your research), who deleted passages from it. The blind leading the blind. Nothing more than a set up and a trap but none other than you know who. We were pawns of an evil force.

      • Meredith J says:

        My comment which is awaiting moderation could be because I made a comment about atheists. I have nothing against atheists, but I do have something against them when they try to re-write the Bible with no accountablility to the force behind it and that Bible is driven hard to be the best translation for good but gullible people.

  9. Alice says:

    http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-prince-jehovah-20160424-story.html

    At a Jehovah’s Witness hall, congregants remember Prince as ‘Brother Nelson’

    This may have been the plainest room Prince spent time in as an adult.
    Auditorium A in the Kingdom Hall of the St. Louis Park Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses doesn’t have a dance club or a recording studio. The Jehovah’s Witnesses who meet in this small complex outside Minneapolis don’t even have any musical instruments except for a piano hidden in a closet that no one uses. The walls are various shades of beige. Nothing shines, and nothing is purple. Nothing about it says “Prince.”
    That’s because in Auditorium A, Prince Rogers Nelson was not known as Prince, the music megastar, but as Brother Nelson, the Jehovah’s Witness. Here, one of America’s greatest sex symbols didn’t arrive in spandex and stilettos but in conservative suits and ties. He was often hard to spot among the congregation of dozens unless you were looking right at him. And that wasn’t the only way he blended in.
    Over the final decade of his life, Prince worshiped here because he was a fellow believer in the Jehovah’s Witness tenets: that Jesus was a savior but was lesser to God, that these are the final days of civilization, that the dead will be resurrected, and that the world will live under a global government lead by Jehovah, a Hebrew name for God. Among the St. Louis Park congregation, Prince wasn’t a celebrity but an equal in faith.
    “He was accepted as our brother,” said congregant Josephine Parker, 74, on Sunday as the congregation gathered for its first meeting since Prince’s death. “He wasn’t treated as maybe the world would treat him.”

    Hundreds of students, participating in the 27th annual High School Choir Festival at Disney Concert Hall in downtown Los Angeles, honor Prince with a rendition of “Purple Rain.”
    Parker fondly remembered Prince as a gentle soul and a “mild spirit,” and his death last week at age 57 broke her heart. But, Parker said, “I look forward to the time we can welcome him back on the Earth.”
    Prince was one of America’s most notoriously private celebrities, and few facts about his life were more beguiling than his conversion in 2001 to Jehovah’s Witnesses, a faith not recognized as Christian by Catholics and Protestants largely because Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t believe in the Holy Trinity.
    Jehovah’s Witnesses call themselves Christians, and they admire Jesus, but they don’t venerate the cross and don’t celebrate Christmas or Easter — or birthdays. They don’t gather in churches but in Kingdom Halls. They avoid political involvement and refuse to fight in wars.
    Over the last week, some fans and acquaintances have wondered whether Prince’s religious beliefs may have even contributed to his death, because Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t believe in taking blood transfusions for scriptural reasons. They do accept other medical treatments, however, and officials and people close to Prince have not released enough information about the singer’s health to substantiate any of those suspicions.
    Prince, who was raised as a Seventh-day Adventist, was converted — or at least helped along — by Larry Graham, the former bass player for Sly and the Family Stone.
    “I don’t see it really as a conversion,” Prince told the New Yorker magazine in 2008. “More, you know, it’s a realization. It’s like Morpheus and Neo in ‘The Matrix.’”
    Prince embraced the faith and even proselytized his neighbors around his Paisley Park estate in the Minneapolis suburbs, who were sometimes shocked to find the star on their doorsteps.

    In Minneapolis, everyone has a story about Prince
    On the afternoon of Yom Kippur in 2003, a Jewish couple in Eden Prairie opened their door to discover the 5-foot-2 singer standing in front of them. Even though a Vikings football game was on, they invited him in.
    “My first thought is, ‘Cool, cool, cool. He wants to use my house as a set. I’m glad! Demolish the whole thing! Start over!’” a woman who only gave her name as Rochelle told the Minneapolis Star Tribune.
    But Prince was there to proselytize them to become Jehovah’s Witnesses. “I said, ‘You know what? You’ve walked into a Jewish household, and this is not something I’m interested in,’” Rochelle told the newspaper.
    Prince reportedly replied to her, “Can I finish?” He stayed for 25 minutes and left a pamphlet.
    Prince’s adherence to the particularly conservative faith — which opposes same-sex marriage and premarital sex — also seemed paradoxical given his history as a gender-bending sex icon.
    When asked about his views on same-sex marriage and abortion in 2008, Prince tapped his Bible and told the New Yorker, “God came to earth and saw people sticking it wherever and doing it with whatever, and he just cleared it all out. He was, like, ‘Enough.’”
    No contradiction seemed to exist for the Jehovah’s Witnesses at the Kingdom Hall in Minnetonka on Sunday. Steve Smedberg, 63, said in an interview, “He believed the same thing the rest of us believed. I guess he was willing to let the Bible be his authority.”
    And in Auditorium A, Prince also seemed to have found a space in America where he might not be treated as some kind of deity. He arrived and left without fanfare at the group’s gatherings, which are called “meetings.” He contributed to discussion but never put himself at the center of attention. He never performed for the congregation, but he sang along with the prerecorded religious hymns like everyone else.
    “Jehovah’s Witnesses want to be average, normal people. That’s my goal in life, to be normal,” Smedberg said. “He seemed to want to be a normal person.”

    Anna Barry, who holds the title of “regular pioneer” in the congregation, remembered when Prince began arriving for worship meetings in the 2000s and participating in the study sessions where congregants discuss Scripture together.
    When discussing the importance of spiritual harmony during one of his early meetings, Prince remarked to the congregation that “if you were in a band and one of the instruments was out of tune, you’d stick out like a sore thumb,” Barry recalled.
    When Barry complimented Prince for his contribution after the meeting, Prince responded, “Thank you, Sister Barry,” and she was impressed he had learned her name.
    “He felt like it was a safe place here,” Barry said.

    Here are the artists Prince brought into the spotlight
    Prince often vanished from the congregation for long periods, apparently while he was traveling, and his fellow congregants didn’t seem to begrudge him, acknowledging the effect his musical gifts had on the broader world. They also said he apparently visited other Kingdom Halls when he was on the road.
    The last time Prince was seen in Auditorium A was on the evening of March 23 for an annual memorial held to mark Jesus’ death. Prince was wearing a suit and tie and had his Bible and songbook like everyone else, but he looked “pale and tired,” said Brian Steffen, a 69-year-old ministerial servant, the title given to selected men who undertake various operational duties in a Kingdom Hall.
    Eighty-two congregants, plus a few journalists, attended Sunday’s meeting after Prince’s death, where the primary topic of discussion was forgiveness and love. The group sang prerecorded songs with titles including “Loyally Submitting to Theocratic Order.” They also took turns reading from and discussing “The Watchtower,” the faith’s official magazine.
    Although Prince’s death had sent shock waves around the world, he was only briefly mentioned once at a gathering of people who actually knew him.
    See the most-read stories this hour >>
    “Our brother, Prince Rogers Nelson, fell asleep in death last Thursday,” said an elder, Sean Barry. And that was it.
    He was just another faithful congregant, said Karla Mack, 54. “If he was here, he would be talking to you about the Bible and talking about Jehovah.”
    But after the gathering broke up, Steffen, the ministerial servant, acknowledged the loss.
    “I knew he was a genius at what he did,” Steffen said. “One time somebody came up to me after a meeting and said, ‘Brian, now you can say you sang with Prince.’”
    Follow @mattdpearce for the latest national news.
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  10. nullandvoidboy says:

    Sorry Meredith….you can believe as you would like, but I’m sure more that some here would disagree and lump everything in the bible, with the “reality” of Greek mythology…..same kooky stories….different cultures

    • Meredith J says:

      Yes, I know nullandvoidboy, what I believe is in stark contrast to what others believe. Although once upon a time we all believed in the same thing. They can believe in their kooky stories about Greek mythology but reality is crazier than fiction in this case. I know I was off topic a little, but with so many being so disillusioned, especially on this topic, I wanted to share my thoughts as I felt it was important.

      • Susannah says:

        I am not sure we all believed the same thing. I think we were told that we should believe the same thing. A choice was not an option, especially if you were born in.

  11. Julien says:

    Hypocrisy. Years of condemning the vatican and they are no different. There where always whispers, gossip but I never saw an adult really do anything about it.

    • Gameisover says:

      No,they are infinitely worse. Have they ever helped the poor? Orphanages, leprosariums, schools, hospitals, missions? This is what the Catholic Church has done consistently through the centuries.
      While 10% of their religious may have been corrupted, usually at the top, the other 90% were busy spreading the doctrine of Christ and bringing comfort and help to untold millions.
      And regarding child abuse, percentage wise, they are also infinitely worse.

      • Alice says:

        Gamesisover, You’re right. I have a coworker. He and his grown son and daughter use their vacation time to go to orphanages and help out. He brings pictures of the visits to work after each trip. There are nice people out there. On one visit he was escorted by a guarilla police force who protects the orphanage.

      • Julien says:

        True jw’s dont amount to a hill of beans but as far as rationalizing goes that 10percent is still unexcusable. The catholics main goal was always conversion and gainning numbers. It was always about strategy and domination. Maybe 90 percent did right but it doesnt change the inquisitions, the destruction of natives nor any other actions thereof rationalized by bringing gods kingdom to earth. Even now these days nothing excuses them from forbidding women (extremely poor women) from taking birth control (just to name one issue). Jw’s catholics etc to me they are all the same controlling, mysinogistic, destructive and oppressive forces that need to be kept in check. I dont mean to offend you but i dont think they are any better or worse than any other religion.

  12. Kathryn says:

    Watchtower is a law unto themselves. They will have to be fined until they are on their knees before they will cooperate. I feel the reason Prince is in good standing with them is maybe because they hope to get a fortune from him. I guess.

  13. Ready 4 to Fade says:

    My favorite quote in Spotlight: “If it takes a village to raise a child, you could also say it takes a village to allow one to be abused.” There is complicity in silence, everyone should be mandated by their own moral sense to report such a travesty.

  14. Meredith J says:

    They didn’t count on being given an unforgiving time frame to produce the information. Thank you for the article Covert, I think this is big news.

  15. Wip it says:

    We had a news item that said that prince was worth 800 million & didn’t have a will, i don’t believe the will bit, but it also speculated that the church (WT) could receive some money, i believe he has a sister, start fighting honey, WT will be salivating over that,

    • Join-Stay25Yrs-Leave says:

      “The news” knows nothing. Minnesota Intesticy Laws are clear and very specific. If Prince had no will, his entire estate will go to his sister. There in no basis for a legal challenge of this. By all accounts she is his only legal heir.

      If someone else, like the WT or his ex-wife produce a will, it will have to go through probate first. This scenario could be challenged by his sister.

      In the USA, churches do inheret monies from the estates of members who die.

      • Stupid4Jesus says:

        Yes, Money from death is how much of their money is made. Nothing lack that last bribe for the generation that would not pass away to ensure life everlasting. This game has been played before there was religion.

    • mimilove says:

      i kinda hope he didn’t have a will because he would have been convinced to leave it to WT.

  16. Willows says:

    What would happen in a congregational committee hearing, if the accused submitted evidence in writing that he redacted for his benefit?

    They would say is this guy repentant? “No way Hosea.”

    Same applies on the world stage as an organization.

    People hearing this and the courts are not stupid.

    The actions of an organisation can be read by all looking on.

    They are their own worst enemy to keeping disciples.

    Their actions cause disciples to leave the organization.

    “Then they shun them.” Actions speak volumes.

  17. mimilove says:

    good news! I have been having serious discussions with my husband for over a year now and he has now weakened enough to actually just read the bible instead of WT version of it. He has come to some pretty good conclusions and admitted that WT has it all wrong in several areas! I asked how he was still going in service and he said he just uses the bible. I told him well you can do that until you get caught! We also discussed the recent child abuse with WT having to turn over documents. He said “WT is going to fight it because they have to in order to prove their innocence” I said well then why are they settling out of court whenever they can.

    Does anyone know how to search for lawsuits that were settled out of court? I just need an approximate number not the details.

    • Doc Obvious says:

      Lawyers have a subscription to all court documents on their computers. They can look up any case within the United States for a particular company.

    • Average Joe says:

      @MIMILOVE. Good for your husband! I find myself in the same boat. I encourage people to read the Bible. Not placed magazines in years and always use the excuse “the society want us to go through a whole presentation using the Bible before we offer literature to make sure they are interested and the people I meet aren’t.” But it’s been over a year since one of the elders talked about my field service report. That’s the truth, even though I don’t offer literature anyway after a good Bible discussion. I just love hearing other people’s viewpoints on the ministry and I use them to enrich my own understanding on scriptural subjects and life.

    • Susannah says:

      There is often a gagging order so the details are not easily found. Barbara Anderson has a fair amount of info about child abuse decisions on http://watchtowerdocuments.org

    • Sarah says:

      Does your husband know there are secret rules which elders use when they arrange a judicial hearing? Does he know elders will not tell the accused person what he is accused of? Does he know the accused cannot defend himself? Does he know that if he asks for an appeal committee that committee will discuss the case in secret with the original committee?
      These secret rules are unlawful according to the Irish Supreme Court.

  18. Jakob says:

    Turn please from Russian into English if you can. Video reveals the mystery of the Babylonian whore. This video should see everything. The information does not contradict the Bible. Sorry for my English.

    https://youtu.be/XAcLVk-zcog

  19. Meredith J says:

    Well, well, well. Now all my comments are being moderated. East is east and west is west and never the twain shall meet. Atheists versus Christians. You are driving your viewers away in their droves with this ruling of not allowing Christian comments. If you only allow atheists on here you have denied freedom for yourself and your viewers. Atheist rants are unreadable to us as they mock God which we refuse to read. No point in tuning in if that is the case as the site has been taken over by those who do not want to see it succeed. What is the percentage of those who are Christian do you think are tuning in to this site? Let’s say a great proportion of them are. You may lose a large portion of your audience.

    • Winston Smith says:

      Meredith,
      From time to time all of our comments get moderated, so don’t take it so personally. The moderation may be using a program that looks for certain buzzwords in order to prevent proselyltizing on the site. Also if you use an abnormal IP address (like at a coffee shop or an Internet cafe) you may also get moderated. It’s the sites way of blocking JW trolls. Your comments are getting through. It’s good to have all sides of a the ex-JW community: atheist, deist, and Christian. Just respect the atheist’s right to draw the conclusion that there is no God as you’d like them to respect your right to believe there is one (Matthew 7:12)

      WS

    • dee2 says:

      Meredith,

      I think the site’s ruling is that comments, whether theist or non-theist, are allowed as long as they are relevant to the topic at hand and are not just evangelizing for evangelizing sake – comments (theist or non-theist) must expose/refute/debunk/counter WT teachings and practices.

      Some of my comments have been blocked in the past when I for e.g. included more than 2 websites in my comment or I included a website address which the moderating program was suspicious of, perhaps deeming it to be spam.

    • Susannah says:

      Hi Meridith,
      It has nothing to do with Athiest or Theist views. The site uses an automatic moderation and things go into the moderation filter for all sorts of reasons. I would guess this site is hit with a huge amount of spam and needs the moderation filter to be set fairly high. I get moderated a lot. No idea why. I do not take it personally as I understand its a program that is putting me in the box. LOL
      I would also guess that this site’s visitors is growing not decreasing. Since I have been visiting so many have come out, comment and leave because of a recovery process. It is normal. New people come. Its a wonderful freedom to come and go.

    • John Redwood says:

      Meredith

      We are not blocking any Christian comments. As long as you are respectful and are on topic, you will not be blocked. Some comments are automatically moderated by our software, and we have to manually approve them. If you feel that any comment was mistakenly un-approved, email us at our contact email address and we will handle your request

      Thanks

      JR

    • Ian Howat says:

      I still take wife to meetings and can confirm they still refer to it as school.when they split into two schools.also i do nothing now but was asked if i would like to rejoin the “school” ..

  20. Julien says:

    Can god exist without religion? If you answer yes then why does anyone need the bible or a religion to be closer to god? Why do you need intermediaries? Why do you need a group of people telling you what to reveal, what to hide, what to say, what to read, who to love, how to dress, how to act?

    • Freed Mason says:

      Well said – totally agree!

      The Amplified Bible Ecc 8:9 – All this have I seen while applying my mind to every work that is done under the sun. There is a time in which one man has power over another to his own hurt or to the other man’s.

      Most Religion insults man’s and God’s intelligence ad therefore is an irrelevant interposer between God and Creation.

  21. Sharon Christensen says:

    God does not make religion, man makes religion as a means of controlling people. Awesome if they can not get any of Princes fortune! :)). But I am sure the scoundrels will try their best to as they do with any of their members who pass. Thanx Covert for this info.

  22. Alice says:

    http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2016/04/26/prince-death-investigation-reportedly-focusing-on-pain-pills.html

    Prince death investigation reportedly focusing on pain pills Authorities investigating the sudden death of pop star Prince are focusing on the role painkillers may have played in his premature demise, according to a published report.

    Michael Padden, a longtime attorney for two of Prince’s siblings, told the Star-Tribune that Prince’s sister Lorna Nelson and brother Duane Nelson told him that Prince particularly abused the painkiller Percocet, as well as cocaine. According to Lorna Nelson Prince didn’t leave a will.

  23. Kathryn says:

    This makes me wonder if maybe Prince’s sister is claiming no will was left? So the society wont get his money? I don’t know. I’m guessing.

  24. Zua says:

    On the guidelines of how to handle child abuse cases, what I find more disgusting in the WT rules is the following statement found in “Circuit Overseer guidelines”: “communications related to child abuse matters should be handled over the telephone”. It has been said that he who has done no wrong has nothing to fear and to hide. Jesus himself said: “there is nothing hidden that won’t be revealed, and there is nothing secret that won’t become known and come to light”-Luke 8:17. It means that the WT is afraid on this issue.

  25. Stirring Awake says:

    Completley OT comment incoming, but I had to put it out there to get it off my chest:

    The week starting Sept 19 the new congregation study book will be “God’s Kingdom Rules! “where we will all be able to gain a deeper appreciation for our spiritual heritage.”

    The fact that the book is misleading through the smoke and mirror changes to JW history is bad enough but to hear that being read, knowing all other congregations would get the same line made my stomach churn.

    Sorry for going OT…

  26. Eric Arthur Blair says:

    Wowsers, this is a turn up for the books:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3562640/Prince-diagnosed-AIDs-six-months-died-refused-treatment-believed-God-heal-him.html

    If it’s true, I wonder if watchtower would still touch his money? Surely they couldn’t do it without making international headlines. Hopefully that would put the spotlight on them and their child abuse record too. Even the r and f might wonder about this one. At least they’ll get to hear about it. Could be a wake up moment for some.

  27. Ready 4 to Fade says:

    Just brainstorming here, out if sheet frustration at not being able to hurry things along with the documents from WT that may be released tomorrow, hopefully! What if the ex-JW community started it’s own database of known pedophiles associated with WT? I know that there are many logistical challenges in doing so and the credibility of such a list would be highly scrutinized, but I think it would be worth a try. In many countries, as here in the U.S. there are public databases of offenders. In the org. many of us have known of cases where it was suspected and if that could be verified by a registry, it may be damning evidence of systemic worldwide failure of WT policy. Just a thought.

  28. Idontknowhatodo says:

    Is there a problem with this site?….

    • Tara says:

      In what way? It’s been quiet for a few days, hasn’t it. Saying that I’ve noticed a few are catching up on older posts.

      • Idontknowhatodo says:

        It is quiet….I think when Lloyd was looking after it we always had a Friday Column about some little gem…it wasnt always new info but always interesting… I really depended on it then… it is needed by new readers whatever stage of in or out they are.

        • Tara says:

          These guys may have other ‘stuff’ going on in their lives. Lets face it, they have given us a feast of information in the previous weeks and months. I think this breather gives us all chance to look back on past posts or even go and check out JWFacts.
          I noticed that when new posts came hot on the tail of the previous one many jumped to the new post without really appreciating the past one. It’s a bit like putting all the courses on the table at once. Me, I’m a desert sort of girl so I would go for the dessert before the main… it’s easy to overlook some very relevant comments when we do that. That’s just my take on it.

  29. Doc Obvious says:

    The new John Cedar’s YouTube video on the United Nations and the Watchtower was a great video. The Cover-ups just keep coming in the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. I believe Jehovah will reveal more secrets about the Watchtower as time goes on. The documentation is superb. The Watchtower leadership always view themselves as superior than the rest of the publishers and have found themselves in deep do-do.

  30. Sherry says:

    Child abuse in this cult ruined my life and many other children,s lives its a memory that stays forever ,all the adults act like they are blind noone seems to notice if you walk around with black eyes or marks all o ver you no they end up shunning you and sending you off to a group homes and state homes because you end up somehow a bad egg , cult life .