Reflecting on the Australian Royal Commission (Day 3, Part 1)
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Abuse survivor Karen Morgan gives her take on evidence given by Dino Ali (above) at the Royal Commission

Abuse survivor Karen Morgan gives her take on evidence given by Dino Ali (above) at the Royal Commission

As you can appreciate there is so much information coming out of this investigation, it’s difficult to know where to start with reviewing it. I would like to begin by focusing on day 3, part 1, which sees Mr Dino Ali on the stand. He is one of the elders who dealt with the case of BCG.

I would love to know what advice/direction the elders have been given prior to this investigation. To me, the elders seem extremely unprepared and very out of their depth.

They are a far cry from the elders who sit in judgement on Judicial Committees and speak eloquently with authority and confidence from the platform.

The other thing that strikes me is the Commission seems to have a lot of the original paperwork, including notes taken by elders at Judicial Meetings. During my own case, the Society and the elders were asked to provide all paperwork related to the case, but they claimed paperwork was destroyed. Maybe in Australia the elders are more organized.

Back to Mr Ali who struggles to interpret his own notes that he took at the time (although I do wonder whether his struggles are related to the fact his own notes are about to drop him right in it).

Ali’s own notes clearly show that more than one child had been abused by their father, and that the elders were told about the abuse at the time of their investigation. However, the fact there were at least two witnesses as required by JW rules was not enough for the elders. It beggars belief, and I find myself saying out loud, “what the hell were you thinking?” I just cannot figure out what goes through these elders’ minds.

After countless judicial meetings, no action was taken against BCH (the father) until it transpired he had been involved in immorality with an adult female. This called for another judicial meeting where his immorality was the focus of the discussion.

At this meeting, the abuse of his daughter was again discussed. His notes state that BCH admitted to everything, and he stated that whatever his daughter BCG had said about him was true. It was only at this point that he was disfellowshipped. So at this point the elders had an admission at last, so there should have been no reason why BCH could not have been disfellowshipped for the abuse.

But no! Mr Ali claims that as this meeting was concerning immorality, then that’s all they could deal with. Also, and this is the killer, Mr Ali suggests that they couldn’t accept that admission as the elders felt it might not be true! Absolutely ludicrous.

So BCH gets disfellowshipped for immorality, but still no action is taken by elders on the child abuse claims. Let’s not forget that, at this stage, all four daughters and even the wife of BCH had all told the elders of the abuse that had taken place.

We then come to the letters sent by the elders to the Branch. The letters contain lots of information about the immorality, but no mention is made of the abuse. Mr Ali claims that at that time the guidelines did not require reporting of child abuse. He refers to the older version of Shepherd the Flock of God. What screams out at me here is: did they really need to have it in black and white in order to report it to the Branch?

Mr Ali is asked if he recalls BCH actually admitting to the abuse. His response: “Well I was only there as a bystander, I wasn’t directly involved.” He goes on to say that he “can’t remember,” which seems to be a common claim among these elders when asked any awkward questions.

Now here’s the clincher: Ali is asked the question I’ve been waiting for. Did he consider reporting these matters to the police? His answer: “No.” Even after the confession, they still did not feel any need to report to the police. Why? “Well, we were still trying to find all the facts on pornea which he was guilty of and we didn’t have the direction in order to do that.”

So in other words, because someone on the end of a phone didn’t say it’s a crime and needs to be reported, the elders didn’t report it. But it’s OK, because the elders tell the accused he/she is never to be on their own with children anymore, and they are not to have children staying overnight. They feel that is enough.

The next part of the questioning turns to the fact the elders had a full confession from BCH, and yet they still did nothing. Mr Ali goes back to his terrible explanation that they had to be sure BCH was being truthful in his confession. He claims that BCH may have only confessed to molesting his daughter to get out of the situation. Now, I don’t know what situation BCH found himself in at the time, but I’m struggling to think of ANY circumstances that would mean a father would falsely say he had been molesting his daughter?

So BCG claims to have been molested by her father, her father admits to molesting her, but the elders still weren’t sure. They were also worried that he may deny it later and they would find themselves stranded. We are supposed to share their concern about what would happen if they had gone to the police and then he had changed his mind. How would they live with themselves? Absolutely farcical!

The questioning moves to the suggestion that no one wants to accept that elders and ministerial servants would carry out child abuse because they are appointed by the Holy Spirit. Mr Ali denies this is the case, and he then describes being an elder or servant as the same as being a ‘Slave’ – claiming it is not a dignified position at all. You have to just laugh at that statement. He will not admit that it may have been a mistake to appoint BCH as a ministerial servant.

Mr Ali spent sleepless nights after hearing what BCG went through with her father. However, this did not prompt him or any of the elders to actually do anything. In fact, the four girls remained at home with their father until he later moved out. So these men appointed by Holy Spirit allowed four young girls to remain in the same home as their father who had abused them physically and sexually.

Let’s not forget that their mother was also aware of what was going on, and she too did nothing. So wouldn’t it have made sense to go to the police and allow them to properly investigate the crime? Mr Ali doesn’t seem to think so, as in 1988 they were following the old guidelines and it’s completely up to the victim to report.

The Judicial Committees are clearly designed to assist the wrongdoer and not the victim. The hope is that the wrongdoer will see their mistakes and repent and come back to Jehovah. Mr Ali feels they are well equipped to deal with the victims of child abuse. His reasons? Publications, circuit overseers, and the ability to ring the Bethel.

Elders also follow up by reading scriptures with the victim, but only within the committee meetings. The elders never told BCG that they believed her, or that it was not her fault. Mr Ali also claims that he was unaware of the gossip in the congregation that BCG was telling lies. He also doesn’t recall BCG had attempted suicide after these events.

The similarities between this case and my own experiences are scarily similar. I was subjected to countless meetings with elders, some on my own, some with my dad, and some with my abuser. I received NO support whatsoever outside of those meetings. My abuser was never disfellowshipped for what he did to me, he was disfellowshipped for admitting to being drunk and belligerent.

I too was called a liar by my congregation at the time, and also a trouble maker. Listening to this case takes me back to my own experience, and when I hear the victims describe how they felt, I know exactly what they are talking about.

Surely Jehovah’s Witnesses must realize how ridiculous their policies are when they watch this Commission? It’s sad, but I suspect your average Witness has no idea of these developments. Even if they do, they will view it as persecution and not see it for what it is – sorely needed exposure of a damaging organization that is failing children.

 

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Karen is herself a victim of child sex abuse as a Jehovah’s Witness. You can read more about her story here and here.

Further reading…

Watch an updated playlist of Royal Commission footage…

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105 Responses to Reflecting on the Australian Royal Commission (Day 3, Part 1)

  1. Jake says:

    It will be wonderful to see Mr Jackson at the commission.
    He may be feeling nervous, frightened, scared. He’ll be quizzed, cross examined and he may not be believed.
    He didn’t want to appear before the committee due to compassionate reasons but what about the compassionate reasons for the children who HAD to appear before a judicial committee, what about feeling humiliated and sitting amongst your abuser and not being believed? Children have had to do that Mr Jackson, where was your compassion then? You are a coward Mr Jackson and a hypocrite along with your counterparts. I hope you are all humiliated.

  2. sirius says:

    To have a GB member who has been appointed by God present should earth shattering. /extreme sarcasm on!

    IMHO

    dogstar

  3. Excelsior! says:

    Folks,

    If Mr Jackson appears, he will have to explain the policies, and he will have to discuss changes that he can make to the policies.

    If Mr Jackson does not appear, he will demonstrate to the people of Australia, and the world, that he is unwilling to discuss the policies that he, along with the other six members of the governing body, have approved and enforce!

    In other words, he is damned if he appears or if he does not appear!

    Either way, the survivors win, and we along with them.

    There is no way out of this for the WTBTS.

    The Royal Commission is inoculating the people of Australia and the world against the JW cult. It is helping cut off the feeding source of the WTBTS. Do you think that the Australian people will want to become JWs now? Anyone exposed to these facts will run a mile!

    This is the first major salvo against the WTBTS, and they have reeled from it. They were totally unprepared for the detailed knowledge the Commission has of their policies, and they have never regained their composure.

    Peace be with you, Excelsior!

    • anonymous says:

      Excelsior, I agree with your assessment 100%. I was totally amazed that that one elder hadn’t even heard of “Theocratic warfare” but the questioners did and quoted it from a 1957 Watchtower. Either that elder had never heard of it or he was pretending he had never heard of it.

      Those people on that commission know a lot more about the under workings of the Society than any of those people being questioned from the Society and it shows. Those people did their homework and they are showing the JW religion and it’s followers as ignorant.

      I love the way the commission questioners are talking down to the Witnesses as if they are children because the Witnesses are pretending to not understand the questions. Those elders know exactly what the commission is trying to prove and all the elders can do is talk in circles but the commission is too smart to fall for it.

      Those people on that commission are asking all the questions that all of out here, who the Society would like to pretend are “apostates” and not deserving of being good enough to talk to and they are not being able to get out of it. When it comes to us “apostates” they refuse to talk to us and run the other way if we would ask those same questions to them.

      I am loving it!!!!

  4. RK says:

    The society will just blame the elders too. I served as an elder for a few years. The CO would send you into the battle without a bulletproof vest. Then turn around and blame you (elders) when it all went wrong. The upper management are masters at side stepping blame. They will just say the elders did not follow procedure. They (GB) always have a way out. I left years ago after seeing the circuit overseers stir up the congregation, only to leave the next week with the mess in your lap. You can tell these elders are in a pile of (sh-it). We had a case where a girl said her step father molested her. I felt we needed to tell the police. But the mother had a government job and did not want the publicity. So sometimes the people are to blame too. They don’t want they’re family secrets to get out. It’s ashame. But thus stuff needs reported to the authorities. The. They can decide what to do. The WTBTS really did a disservice to everyone with their rules. Then they leave the elders to look bad and blame them. I’ve seen elders left with the blame bag so many times. I think they do it purposely so they always have a way out. The society is always in protect itself mode, no matter who gets hurt. Then ultimately they say that people are not following Jehovah’s direction. There is the ultimate excuse for them, blame the people. Just like they blame the Israelites for everything. We don’t want to be like those bad Israelites. The leadership never takes responsibility for its actions. Not now, and certainly not in the last 100 years. They hurt dozens of families only to say, let Jehovah work it out in his time. If there is a God. The GB will have a tough time explaining how they used Jehovah as their scapegoat all these years.

    • Chiafade says:

      I absolutely agree with your statements. I have been among the elders left with the blame bag. It’s a habit that trickles down to the elders as well. When someone has doubts its “why do you have doubts brother weak?”
      Bro weak: I just can’t seem to reconcile a truthful organization completely and habitually avoiding speaking truth. Especially in court.
      Elders: Well, have you been studying and reading your Bible daily?
      Bro weak: What does that have to do with anything?
      Elders: If you had been studying you would know that these are nothing but satanic attacks on God’s true people.

      You get the point. No matter how valid the complaint the organization is NEVER to blame EVER.

  5. Exhausted says:

    I knew about theocratic warfare since I was a little girl.
    We had it drilled into our heads that we would be persecuted and subjected to who knows what before
    The final battle which was looming in the near future.
    Well, I just turned 63 this week. So my point is this,
    That lawyer is a liar to say he has never heard the term
    Theocratic Warfare. Pleeeeese make it stop. LORDY.

  6. Jake says:

    Read a lovely quote on the internet today, and it reminded me of all the young woman and girls who have showed such bravery, and to those who have suffered in silence
    ‘Speak the truth, even if your voice shakes’
    I have absolute admiration for you and Iam very proud of my own 4y daughter, what an example.X

  7. Exhausted says:

    Uncle Freddy was expounding the theory of Theocratic
    warfare as far back as 1955. I found a talk he gave on
    The subject under the heading Theocratic War speech
    1955. It also refers to the Rahab technique. Just saying.

  8. ScotWm says:

    Here’s a good example of theocratic warfare, also known as lying: “Jehovah’s people do not beg for money… It is our judgment that money raised by the various begging devices in the name of our Lord is offensive, unacceptable to him, and does not bring his blessing either upon the givers or the work accomplished.”

    But paying those child abuse judgments and out of court settlements can get expensive, so new light has revealed that various begging devices are now totally appropriate.

    “Show Appreciation for Jehovah’s Generosity” is the headline of an article appearing in the November 1, 2015 Watchtower Study Edition. After a lengthy scriptural flourish on how donating to the Watchtower will help us repay God for his “indescribable free gift”, we are presented with a wide variety of ways to add to the Watchtower treasury.

    There is a chart which shows how CHARITABLE PLANNING can be used as a tax avoidance strategy when donating insurance, bank accounts, stocks, bonds, real estate, wills and trusts to the Watchtower. Creating a will designating the Watchtower as sole beneficiary is encouraged.

    OUTRIGHT DONATIONS include donations via electronic bank transfer, debit card or credit card. In some branches, electronic transfers can be made using jw.org or another designated website. Donations of cash, jewelry or other valuable personal property will also be greatly appreciated.

    I’m curious to see if Governing Body members will now drop their pinky rings and Rolex watches into contribution boxes.

    Those with limited means, such as pioneering part time janitors and window washers, are urged to continue devoting all of their “time, energy, and resources” to the Watchtower Society.

    http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20151115/donations-worldwide-work/

    To make donating quick and easy, the Watchtower accepts Visa, MasterCard, American Express and Discover:

    https://www.jw.org/apps/E_QBrNGR

    Dig deep! Give until it hurts! And then give some more!

  9. Joe Smith says:

    The “Theocratic Warfare” concept exists because it has been attested to as a ‘weapon’ of spiritual warfare [see the Walsh Trial Transcripts]
    Question: Therefore if I was required – on pain of death – to purchase a 19 cent Political Party Card [ref Malawi] and I did so – even though in my mind and soul I profess no allegiance to the party – but it saves my neck – that should be OK then?
    I think more people should know about the “Theocratic Warfare” thing!

    • sirius says:

      “Theocratic Warfare” seems to have a parallelism of the battle plan of the Koran against the non-believers.

      Your example is pretty close to the Koranic Surah 3, Ayat 28 (Surat ‘Āli `Imrān – Family of Imran) the justification using deception when in fear, even for one’s (self) life or safety. This art of deception can be practiced by most sects of islam, in particular the shiite, but also the sunni. The Arabic word is taqiyya*(rooted in ayat 3:28). The key disguising feature is that the believer can lie in front of his allah but only with his tongue & not his heart. The heart is one’s true faith, not the tongue. It’s liken to self-defense in fighting a non-believer, even under threat of sever questioning. Soooo, the goal in the islamic world is …. allah above all else!

      * taqiyya is a fascinating subject area but will not get into depth here.

      IMHO

      dogstar

  10. Average Joe says:

    I had an interesting conversation with a fellow elder the other day and I subtly mentioned the Australian Royal Commission case (as I didn’t want him to top the conversation dead) and I told him about the confidential Branch Guidelines letter that even congregation elders aren’t allowed to see. I told him that one of the first questions was “If a person had previously been a child abuser in the past would that mean that he couldn’t be an elder or MS?” to which the answer was “not necessarily”. At first he couldn’t believe it (like me) but then when I read the rest that gave examples such as “it was before he came into the truth” or “it was many years ago and he had repented” then he told me he agreed with those situations. This elder is in his late 50s and seems to be the typical opinion of elders in his age group. I tried to reason with him that a child molester has crossed a line that should never be crossed. He tried to say it was the same as a murderer or fornicator that repents. I stood my ground and said “no” as those are understandable circumstances to some extent and we don’t know the situations that led up to their sin. However there is NO possible excuse for child molestation and that such a person should NEVER be allowed a privilege in the cong and should even be “marked” by letting the brothers know he is a former abuser. It fell on deaf ears. I am apparently too harsh and need to work on being merciful!!! I think it highlights the current problem facing the WTS though. Hopefully younger elders like myself can help make the needed reforms on a congregation level especially if justice is done in courts as in the Australian case.

    • Simon Kestral says:

      I agree that child molesters permanently disqualify themselves from leadership roles. At least until a new world where such mental aberrations could be cured.

      But you want to change WT from within?

      As an elder, you are required to participate in field service with the goal of starting Bible studies. When asked who the faithful and discreet slave is, will you support WT’s claim to that title? If you do, you share in the sin of that lie. And if you don’t, you can’t serve as an elder.

      WT is not a game where you can play double agent. You are deceiving yourself.

      • Average Joe says:

        Thanks for your reply Simon.
        I believe that I belong to the organisation God is using today, hence why I’m a part of it. What I’m beginning to see is how corruption reaches up even to “management” level. As I’ve stated on here before, I know what my conscience allows and what is morally right & wrong. I don’t need the WTS to tell me that. I am part of a fantastic small congregation and as yet haven’t seen any corruption or any cases of abuse. If I do then I’d be the first to go to the authorities. Yes I am very regular in field service (thanks for checking up on me; wow didn’t expect THAT on here!) as I believe there is more to life than what we see. I like to believe in a paradise earth where EVERYONE who is a decent human being gets to live based on God’s criteria and his alone (not US judging if an individual is worthy or not). I have great friends within the organisation and the congregation and will defend my fellow “rank & file” brothers & sisters as described by some on here. However, I will NOT defend bad WTS policies or corrupt, perverted individuals to anyone. I’ve yet to come across it in my ministry but I would openly direct an individual who brought the abuse cases up to the News Articles and TRUTHFULLY answer them to the best of my limited knowledge.
        Hope that satisfactorily answers your questions.
        Cheers. AJ
        PS. I’m on here after all because I’m being diligent and looking for answers.

        • Simon Kestral says:

          So you do support WT’s claim to the title of faithful and discreet slave, without any self conflict. I see.

          At one time, I didn’t question it either. But eventually I realized that WT’s claim to the title of faithful and discreet slave is false. Only Jesus can make that judgment. He has not done so yet, and any person or organization claiming it for themselves is presumptuously running ahead.

          WT’s failures are not mere management incompetence. WT’s claim to the title of faithful and discreet slave was false all the way back in 1881 when C.T. Russell first wrote of it, and with many flip flopping changes in the 134 years since, it’s still false today.

          You can’t build a house of truth on a foundation of lies.

          By examining so called apostate material such as found on this web site, you are disobedient to the organization you claim to have confidence in.

          But by all means, continue searching for truth. It took time for me to realize WT is NOT “the truth.”

    • Chiafade says:

      They should “never be allowed to have a privilege”. I completely agree. Have you seen the application for temporary work in Warwick? In particular question 3 (e) and (f) under spiritual condition and background ” “Have you ever engaged in child molestation?” If so “how long ago?”

      You can’t make this stuff up. There should be no room for a question like that.

  11. Ted says:

    Lying to a cruel regime, to save your life and the lives of your family
    and those whom you regard as Christian brothers, is certainly no sin.
    And most would agree it’s the honourable thing to do.

    But far from being an evil authority, the R, Commission was formed
    to protect children from sexual predators, and anyone claiming to be
    Christian and more than that, the “Only. true Christians under the sun,
    surely would want to cooperate fully with that aim.

    Instead we have seen very senior JWs deliberately trying to mislead
    and to thwart the commissions goals. Chief counsel for the R,Comm,
    Angus Stewart, openly accused, top JW, Terrence O’Brien, of giving
    WTs lawyer false information to be presented to the inquiry.

    It’s all very far from, “The truth the Whole Truth and nothing but the
    Truth” Who can trust anything they say, if they’re not above lying
    under Oath sworn on the book they claim to live by?

    No way can they use the excuse of “Theocratic Warfare”. There’s
    no persecution here, no attack by Satan, The comm, is investigating
    all organisations where children could be at risk, including the very
    powerful Catholic Church.

    The reason they’re being so obstructive, is the absolute control
    they’re under. Minds taken over , afraid to give an honest opinion
    I almost feel sorry for them, watching them squirm.

  12. Excelsior! says:

    Average Joe,

    Sir, you are far better placed where you are than outside the organisation. You can offer better care to your fellow congregants as an appointed part of the organisation than outside of it.

    I applaud your stance, and it is a comfort to know that you are by no means the only elder out there who has chosen to do what is right rather than what the organisation dictates is right.

    I understand those who cannot accept a “double life” but I think that it depends on why someone is living a “double life”. In your case, Av. Joe, you are concerned for your congregants, and you want to be able to offer them Christian aid and advice. This is a noble aim. The fruitage will define if it is the correct choice.

    You offer a fifth column that the WTBTS will find extremely difficult to counter. Cooperating with others in your position will be problematic, though. I’m sure you will find a way.

    I shall leave you with a question. What is the right thing to do? Should you tell your congregants that the organisation you believe to be God’s channel has the worst reputation as regards the handling of child abuse?

    I am an atheist. I am not going to judge you whatever you decide. I am genuinely interested in what the right thing to do IS in this situation. There are arguments for and against. This dilemma lies at the heart of how we help people wake up from the undue influence that the WTBTS uses.

    For what it’s worth, Average Joe, I think that you are a sincere man, and I absolutely believe that if a child comes to you or your fellow elders with an accusation of paedophilia, you WILL contact the police and cooperate fully with their investigation. Good for you, sir.

    I wish you well and I hope you find a way to live your faith in harmony with your own Christian conscience.

    Peace be with you, Excelsior!

    • Idontknowhatodo says:

      Once again you are the voice of reason Excelsior…
      We all have to find our own way…
      We have to create our own exit strategy…
      Thay may involve a lengthy ‘role play’…
      I just hope average joe that you also realise that women are your equals and are treated with extreme prejudice in the organization you think is from ‘God’…..
      I think even the fact that you are looking and commenting here means you are not as convinced as you like to think you are…
      Keep your mind open…
      I hope you are free before you are 57…

  13. Exhausted says:

    Average Joe

    You possess the ability to address one’s senses as to
    Conscience and the harsh reality that reigns supreme in
    The org. I read an article published in a newspaper in
    The land down under which used words that I have never
    Heard before, but the meaning was stupid, in a word.
    the word was gormless. Ever heard that one?

  14. Jake says:

    To me it all makes perfect sense, the wheat and the weeds, the dragnet, the foolish virgins and who really is?
    Even the false parusisa of 1914 and the attitude of the man of lawlessness all within the organiaztion. The destruction of the holy place in my mind has to be this organisation to root out his presence. I see no conflict.
    Nevertheless whether true or false (above) I cannot agree with the Watchtowers policy’s and the way it has conducted itself and the way it has dealt with children, I see as an arrogant, self serving golden calf.

  15. Jake says:

    There is one thing we can all agree on. The Watchtower society is deluded, in its authority, it’s teaching and its attitude.

  16. Meredith J says:

    After realising that the Watchtower wasn’t going to do anything about the pedophile paradise claims that were going on in the early 2000’s, I lost faith in my religion that I had sacrificed so much for. I knew personally one of the victims who was featured in a tv show, so I knew that all the hype was true. The week that I was feeling like it was all going down the drain, I went witnessing and a lady with three small children took a tract and seemed genuinely interested in what I had to say. That day, I decided enough was enough. How could I attract this lady into a pedophile paradise with a good conscience. I felt like blabbing to her all I knew. I didn’t as I was pretty gutless then.I decided I’d had enough but I had to go through the painful process of leaving. I think we all get to that point.

  17. Mc fan says:

    Just came in about a half hour ago!!

    Governing body member Geoffry Jackson, has been subpoenaed to appear before the royal commission on This coming Friday!!

    • Criticus says:

      Yeeeeeeeah! Now, the butter comes to the fish, as say the Germans – or will this maybe prove to be just another barrel bust? Let’s see. In any case, Geoffrey might be “excited” – good for him. In this way, his otherwise drab homeward journey gets some sizzling little twist.

    • Chiafade says:

      Oh my! Will we be getting a Gerrit Losch repeat of “I don’t answer to anyone”? Or will Bro. Jackson actually appear and offer an unlikely apology? Wow I can’t wait for Friday.

  18. Ted says:

    Presiding judge, Mclelland challenged WT chief O’Brien, regarding
    the stupid ( My word ) 2 witness rule. Saying it was obligatory to
    report abuse to elders, but then it couldn’t be believed for lack of
    said witnesses, resulting in more suffering for the victim.

    O’Brien was confounded, he could only answer its in the Bible, Jesus
    approved it (or words to that effect ). The judge then asked, has society
    not moved on ? he then cited slavery among early Christians. Paul’s
    words about slaves being obedient to masters were mentioned.

    Oh! it wasn’t slavery in the way we understand it, said O’Brien, they
    were treated kindly. ( Whenever there’s something abhorrent in their
    revered book they always try to sanitise it, tone it down.)

    Judge Mclelland was unmoved, “It’s still slavery” ! he replied./ Who
    could fail to agree with him? Even the words, Master and Slave
    are disgusting to any decent and sound “Thinking” person.

    This is the big mistake JWs make, attempting to build a defence
    on Iron Age Writings that are clearly not due to the influence of
    a supreme intelligence. But are full of errors, and can be made
    to mean almost anything you want them to mean.

    Further embarrassment is inevitable.

  19. Average Joe says:

    @Excelsior & Exhausted
    Thanks for your kind words. I do indeed find myself in a difficult situation, much like Cedars has passed through in the beginning, and it is not a pleasant one.
    I’m trying to do the best I can and it’s nice to know that you folks can see my predicament. My wife feels the same as me on the child abuse issues but won’t have a bad word said about the GB. I want to make sure that the steps I’m taking are well measured and with causing the less hurt possible to my brothers & sisters who deserve to know the truth about this whole can of worms.
    I have been pleasantly surprised up to now how well the ones I have spoken to on the whole have seen what a sad situation this is. Plus, credit where credit is due, they have also been looking at the info on the Royal Commission site, including the secret policy letters. The ball has started rolling (as it has I hope in congregations all over the world) and whilst it is moving slowly, I can imagine it picking up pace very soon now.
    Let’s hope that Geoff Jackson sees sense and appears before the board. In the eyes of those that almost “worship” the GB (yes I have family that fall into that category) that would be the best thing to happen to them to burst their bubble. He will then finally get to prove to the world what kind of man he is: will he side with the rest of the GB and try and cover all this up or will he admit their gross failings and try and make amends? It looks like it could be a very exciting week!

  20. Average Joe says:

    @Idontknowwhattodo
    Sorry, I forgot to include you in my comment above.
    I can wholeheartedly assure you that I KNOW women are my equal and are NOT second class citizens. Being brought up by my mum on her own taught me that! 😉

    • @ Average Joe. I have enjoyed all your posts & am in the same situation with my wife worshipping the GB who can do no wrong. But I am determined to work on the inside by letting subtle comments slip into conversations with family JWs & friends. Most will stubbornly defend the GB but this is a natural defensive mechanism considering the AWFUL REALISATION the Wasted Years of being CONNED by 7 men in Brooklyn who CHOP & CHANGE interpretation of Scriptural doctrine (Generation;F&D Slave,Gog & Magog; Sheep& Goats, Organ transplants ,etc)3,4,5 times !! Then the GB can change interpretation 6,7,8 times!! I think many would end up having a MENTAL BREAKDOWN if they accepted that The GB are ALL FRAUDS!! But I believe the Truth MUST Come out to STOP FUTURE GENERATIONS not Wasting their Lives on the SACRIFICIAL ALTAR of the WATCHTOWER PUBLISHING & PROPERTY EMPIRE!!

    • Idontknowhatodo says:

      I understand you do not consider women second class…but as a woman brought up as a jw from birth I sit in a kingdom Hall listening to men telling me what I can and cannot do…and realise that in the organisation you support women have no voice…that is why these vile abusers have gone unrevealed and unpunished for so long…Im like you to an extent…except I believe none of it anymore but would lose everything including my children if I left…so I have chosen as advised by many to play a role and slowly fade…it is hard beyond belief…but losing everything would be worse…I totally agree with what your doing…but asan elder how hard is it to carry on enforcing the dictates of these men who are perpetuating such misery…abuse…sexism…mysogyny…shunning…I am heartsick…it is quite agonising…I hope you stay clear of those who will most definitely come for you…I want you to prevail…I want that for my children…who are all young…in thier 20s and 30s.

      • @Idontknowwhattodo. YOUR COMMENTS are ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT & Encapsulates Exactly what many sisters in the organisation must really feel but are too scared to speak out for FEAR of losing Family & friends which is understandable!! My heart goes out to you But we must all try to in our own way to try & save our future generations from being sucked into this high control group of 7 deluded men of the GB or are they Deluded or just power MAD???

      • Chiafade says:

        Don’t lose hope. I am in my 30’s, serving in an appointmented capacity, and yet here I am. Your slow fade and gently introducing these developments in Australia may very wake your children up to the reality that all is NOT well in the spiritual paradise.

        When I heard Tony Morris during the branch visit it sparked something in me that had been lingering for some time. Unreasonable rantings and rule making negating peoples ability to make a decision based on their conscience was very troubling. It still took a couple of months after that to start my investigation on what is really going on in the organization. It still shocks me but I’m still young enough to make a decent life for myself and my family even after spending 15 years broke as a pioneer with no savings. All the while, new properties are being built with mostly free labor and the senior citizen GB get to retire comfortably.

        These things are plain to see. They are not hidden. Your children may come to see that.

  21. Wip it says:

    is it any different from the other churches using hell fire to keep people in line, the only difference is they don’t dis-fellowship & destroy families, it is a trap, i still attend under false pretense & play the game, but no more door to door, as i have said i can’t sell the product anymore.

    • @Wip it . I agree with you ,what is the difference between Hellfire & a FIERY Destruction at Armageddon & NEVER seeing Family & Friends Again!! IT IS STILL the FEAR CARD the Watchtower is Playing just like the CatHOLICS !!!

  22. Wip it says:

    Hi Average Joe, i am surprised an active elder is on this site, i am a former elders/ms, 20 years service & still go to meetings, if Elders in my congregation or anywhere else knew, i believe i would be treated as an apostate, i have a question for you, how do you reconcile 607 being the wrong year, history doesn’t stack up to it, & that throws all the rest out, sorry but its the main thing that has destroyed me, as well as the child abuse stuff