Why it is morally wrong for Watchtower to push baptism on children
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A new JW.org video depicts a young boy being baptized

A new JW.org video depicts a young boy being baptized

During my time as a ministerial servant (before becoming an elder) I was asked to study with a boy in his late teens. His parents were Witnesses but, for a number of reasons, they felt it would be better for a brother in the congregation to study with their son.

Under the direction of my elders I conducted the study and helped my student progress to baptism.

I will never forget the moment his father approached me shortly before the baptism when I attended a celebratory meal with his family. He told me that he had mixed feelings. Puzzled, I asked him why this was so. He explained that, though he was elated that his boy was getting baptized, he was also nervous.

You see, the father had a large family with other children who had been baptized. One had already been disfellowshipped, causing problems for the family due to the rules on shunning. The father couldn’t help but fear that, by making such a commitment, his son was also exposing himself to future pain if he were to ever fall short of the Society’s rules.

At the time I brushed this off and told the father he had nothing to worry about. After all, his son was now effectively an adult and free to make his own decisions. But the point he made stayed with me. Do young ones who get baptized truly understand what they are signing up to? Isn’t it right for parents to be wary of forcing their children into a commitment that could dramatically backfire further down the line?

An elaborate scam

Now I am free from Watchtower’s indoctrination and I can see perfectly well that nobody who gets baptized understands fully what they are getting involved in. The Bible Teach book doesn’t offer a full and frank account of the organization’s teachings, including the important doctrines surrounding 1919 (which is not mentioned once) and the little-known fact that Christ is NOT the personal mediator for most Witnesses (Worldwide Security Under the Prince of Peace, page 10). -1 Tim 2:5,6

“Was Moses the mediator between Jehovah God and mankind in general? No, he was the mediator between the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the nation of their fleshly descendants. Likewise, the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members.” (Worldwide Security Under the Prince of Peace, page 10)

Nor can it be said that newly baptized ones are fully acquainted with the true history of “God’s spirit-directed organization,” to which they pledge their lifelong allegiance. Never are they pre-warned of Watchtower’s double-standards in the Mexico/Malawi scandal, of the organization’s early racist literature, of Rutherford’s letter to Hitler, of Beth Sarim and the “ancient worthies,” or of Watchtower’s nine-year-affiliation with the United Nations. These details are held beyond reach, either buried in obscurity and trivialized in the Proclaimers book, or available only on the internet on unapproved sites like this.

Bringing adults to baptism under false pretenses is bad enough - but it is inexcusable to do this with children

Bringing adults to baptism under false pretenses is bad enough – but it is inexcusable to do this with children

It is wrong for ANYONE to be duped into making a lifelong commitment based on insufficient information. Such a practice would commonly be classed as a “scam.” But it is especially abhorrent and morally bankrupt to force children into such a binding commitment when the future ramifications could be (and often are) devastating.

Take my case for example. I was baptized at the age of 11. My parents, to their credit, voiced some concerns that I was perhaps too young – but I was insistent and determined. Based on what I had been told, this HAD to be the truth, and I wanted to pledge my commitment to it before the end came. According to my parents, Armageddon was due any moment. They even expressed surprise when I started high school, saying they never expected “the system” to last that long.

Now I am in my mid-thirties, with much of my young life wasted on a “career” of selling false promises to strangers on the doorstep. I now realise that, like so many others, I was conned. But my family warns me that they WILL shun me if I follow my convictions and break with the organization.

I am essentially being held to a decision I made when I was 11. A decision that was made based on false information and misrepresentation. Such a decision would hold absolutely no weight in a legal court of justice, but according to the organization it remains sacrosanct. The decision I made as a child to chain myself to an organization should stay with me until my dying breath. Even if it is based on demonstrable lies and deception, it should still be used as grounds for me to be cut adrift by my Witness family.

Leaders who should know better

To add insult to injury, I now see Watchtower’s leaders, the Governing Body, bending over backwards to get parents to usher their children into the baptism pool. In one of his talks, Anthony Morris III made some disgraceful comments in the video below, in which he essentially told parents to blackmail their kids if necessary to get them dunked. “Don’t swallow that business,” he says of any young ones who might resist (skip to 00:57)…

Then, in his recent zone visit to Sweden, David Splane told parents in his audience that allowing children to follow their heart in matters of faith wasn’t necessarily the “wise” thing to do (skip to 2:40)…

More recently still, as recently as last weekend’s annual meeting, Gerrit Lösch told parents to “steer” their young ones toward baptism (skip to 3:05)…

And finally this morning I open up my YouTube feed to find an appalling video straight from JW.org depicting a young child being baptized (skip to 00:50)…

It’s hard to express the depth of my resentment and anguish at the extent to which the Governing Body is shamelessly pursuing millions of children with the selfish aim of having them herded into baptism pools by their oblivious parents like some sort of grotesque human sheep-dip. To the Governing Body, these children are not individuals – they are human assets to be branded under Watchtower’s ownership as soon after they leave the womb as possible.

It is shameful to force children to pledge allegiance to any religious organization, especially one for which there are grave consequences for leaving

It is shameful to force children to pledge allegiance to any religious organization, especially one for which there are grave consequences for leaving

Children are born as a blank canvas full of curiosity, wonder and questions. But for Witnesses there can be no questions – there are only teachings that cannot be disputed. This is why there can be no such thing as a “Jehovah’s Witness child.” There can only be children who are indoctrinated into the beliefs of their Jehovah’s Witness parents, and restrained from asking the questions a free thinking person would ask.

It is only when you are an adult and you are able to use your fully matured thinking faculties that lifelong commitments should be entered into. The decisions you make as a child are usually not the same ones you would make as an adult.

It is for this same reason that the Western world gasps in horror at the custom in some Islamic countries of arranged marriages involving children – often with disastrous results. If forcing children into a binding contract with a fellow human is so abhorrent, why should forcing children into a binding contract with a religious organization be tolerated? Especially if the penalty for exiting this organization is shunning by parents and other relatives – thus depriving the person of his or her basic human needs?

A personal battle of conviction

I write this article days after the release of the newly revised New World Translation. My readers will likely be expecting me to focus my attentions on, what is for most Witnesses, a historic event. But I woke up this morning in the midst of a personal struggle with Witness family members who are slowly coming to terms with the fact that my wife and I are now Jehovah’s Witnesses in name only. They have been further warned that this will be the case for only a short while longer – we have had it with this organization. What is their response? They say they will shun us if that’s what Watchtower tells them to do. And no, they’re not that interested in knowing our side of the argument.

As you might imagine, I am seething that I am being held to a decision I made as an eleven-year-old based on misleading information and false promises. To cap it all off, I log on to YouTube and see this picturebook monstrosity of a video that is so clearly aimed at herding a fresh generation of children into their nearest baptism pools. The mistake I made as a child is being repeated worldwide on an almost daily basis.

I should be writing about the “new” New World Translation this morning, but my mind is elsewhere. By inflicting their dogmatism on young minds and entombing children in a religion from which they can never freely escape, despite knowing the number of young ones who are later disfellowshipped, the men on the Governing Body have shown that they are morally bankrupt. And I will continue to shout as loudly as I can by any means possible to make this and other abominations known, despite a recent threat made against this website and others.

 

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130 Responses to Why it is morally wrong for Watchtower to push baptism on children

  1. whatevs says:

    @ JBob, no clue what you’re saying. I’m talking about how shunning affects those in and out of the congregation, and you’re talking about bar mitzvahs and Halls being empty through the week.

    @Sally, Cedars is correct in pointing out that a problem that was discussed before can and should be discussed again. You said you brought it up “years ago” but what about the ones who are being affected by shunning recently? I’ve noticed just in the past few years more and more elders stepping down and families leaving because of the pedophile problem slowly coming to light, and now they’re facing a situation they never thought would apply to them. When Bowen went public around 2001, many assumed it was just an isolated problem and blown out of proportion for publicity, but the past few years, with Candace and so many other lawsuits, has really shown how horribly common the problem is. These are the same families that were so proud of their kids getting baptized, and ones who were baptized as kids themselves, and now the situation is tragic for them. Stay and possibly subject those same children to sexual assaults, or leave and face isolation for yourself or your family.

    As Cedars mentions, there seems to be a real push toward teen baptism today that I didn’t notice before and I’ve only been out about five years. I know teens and pre-teens have been getting baptized for decades, but this direct push from the GB seems to be relatively new. They take no responsibility for the harm they bring to children with their crap policies, but are more than happy to insinuate themselves into their lives when it comes to baptism.

    What “boots to the ground” research would you like him to do, other than what he’s done?

  2. mamaditto says:

    I never have been a JW, but am aware that their numbers have been declining over the years. This push to baptize minors seems to be a desperate effort to increase the number of publishers in the field. I have spoken to the JWs who come to my door about this. I ask them whether or not they feel as though they are being used as unpaid magazine salesmen.

  3. Becky E. says:

    Back in the early 1990 when I was a teen and wanted to get baptized I was told no even after I jumped through all of their hoops. And now they are try to get them baptized. Crazy!

  4. Michael says:

    Skally- what is this non-sense you speak? It sounds a little twisted and bitter to me to be calling him out on these things…he gets more exposure to his writings than you, so you lash out & criticise? Is that it? The more people online writing critical, thoughtful pieces about the WT org the better if you ask me. The Internet- more specifically, his own blog- provides great leverage and exposure opportunities and is clearly the right place for Cedars to be writing, putting his “boots on the ground”.

  5. Tammy says:

    As I was reading your blog I thought how many of us ex JWs has the same exact story. I got baptised at 10 and there was a 5 year old getting baptised with me at that convention. What did I know at that age? I believe they want us to get in early because it is so much harder to get out after. Thank you for sharing your story. Your story helps others when going through trying times with our families when we are being shunned.

  6. FutureMan says:

    I was baptized between the age of 17 and 18 years old, but even then I did not know my own mind only that I was taught that it was the right thing to do once I had a belief in God and some semblance of a belief in the organization’s teachings and authority.

    As a few of my peers in my congregation were getting baptized, I thought to myself why not get baptized too.

    This without even having a personal study of my own as I was suppose to have apparently (Note: I was brought up since I was 5), just a session where a few questions were thrown at me and the others as to what we understood about the organization and it’s teachings and then the okay was given to me and most of the others to get baptized.

    Heck, my own parents who were Jehovah’s Witnesses and active at that, did not even attend the convention where I had got baptized to view my baptism and neither did I have any photographs taken of me as I was getting baptized.

    In fact over the years of my life in the organization I had to keep on scratching my head to remember what date or even what convention and year that I did get baptized as no one else in my family could remember as far as I know anyway.

    And now in my own family (apart form my immediate family – wife and kids) I am ostracized because I no-longer believe in the tenets of the organization or accept it’s authority over me.

    I still very much believe in God the Father and believe in the enlightened understanding of Jesus (Joshua Ben Joseph) and Creator Son of God, but not the Jesus as preached about by the organization and mainstream Christianity.

    I do not exactly believe that when I die that I will go to Heaven (where God the Father resides) but resurrected to another dimension of space or density where higher life forms do exist without the chaos that exists on our own planet.

    John 14
    1 ¶ Do not let your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me.
    2 In My Father’s house are many dwelling places. But if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going to prepare a place for you![LITV]

    Call it Paradise if you will, it will be to me anyway, but true Paradise is actually in the domain where God the Father dwells. This is what I now understand anyway.

  7. Becky E. says:

    I seriously think that every congregation is different. I started studing in Florida and then moved to Wyoming and continued studing there. My parents had fallen away at this time so I had to ask other people for rides just so I could go to meetings. Found someone other than my dad to study with since he wasn’t going to meetings and went out in service as often as I could. I did everything that I was told so I could get baptized and I was told that I didn’t do enough. I don’t know why they did that. All it did was push me away. And now I’m still searching for someplace to go and worship god.

  8. FutureMan says:

    Becky E.,
    As regards our own salvation, we all have to individually respond to whatever we personally feel that is right for us.
    No one can decide for you, which is the correct religion, or the correct way to worship God, or indeed if you even believe in God to worship him.

    Those who have some spiritual understanding can only give you pointers or indicators to show what possibly could be the truth and the way, after that you personally have to decide for yourself.

    As we understand from the Bible, Jesus came down to enlighten people as to how to worship God and to show them the way and after he had died, it was up to his disciples to decide for themselves how they were going to proceed with his teachings.
    Unfortunately as it would appear the real message of “God’s Kingdom” that Jesus taught has gotten lost in the stream of time since then.

  9. FutureMan says:

    I felt that I just need to clarify my comment where I had stated”after he had died” referring to Jesus here.

    I do believe that he was resurrected and now is the glorified Creator Son of God who has received authority in his own right as sovereign over his local universe.
    I just thought that I clarify that so there is no misunderstanding of my belief about Jesus.

  10. Jonathan says:

    Steering children to baptism as said by the GB does not mean pushing them into baptism without knowing what bible truth are. I was 15 when I got baptised, there are some bible truth I am expected to know. Like, where are the dead? Truth about christmas, trinity etc. So I have been able to defend what I belive in even whille still young. If a child is 7years and know all this, what should stop that child frm baptism? Or must a child knows all before getting baptised? Come on!

  11. Excelsior, formerly known as George says:

    Jonathan, thanks for your comments and opinion.

    It isn’t a case of knowing bible truths. You are right, a child can repeat what it has been taught. It doesn’t mean that child really believes what it says.

    I was baptised at 18, and I thought at the time that it was the right decision. Now I am 42′ and my beliefs have changed 100%.

    This is the point.

    Even though I “knew” bible truth, I was still not fully prepared for a decision that would affect the rest of my life.

    The witnesses do not teach the truth about science or evolution. They just don’t. Anyone basing their decisions on their literature alone will not come to correct conclusions.

    And yet, I can still be shunned for simply wanting to live and let live. That is why it is morally wrong to even lead children to baptism.

    If there were no adverse consequences to an early baptism, then it wouldn’t matter so much to me.

    But you know that there are very serious and adverse consequences to a later decision not to believe anymore.

    Therefore, I believe that it is morally wrong to guide or force minors into a decision that will potentially haunt them for the rest of their days.

    If an adult wants to dedicate their lives to a group of old men in mid state New York, then that’s ok. But children? That is wrong. Just plain wrong. And I don’t imagine that Jesus would be pleased with anyone who fosters that idea.

  12. Jamie Clark says:

    Thank you for sharing Cedars and writing an insightful article.

    Still, the age of accountability is 20 years, as the sons of Israel became aware of in their 40 years of wandering (when those above 20 died due to the false reports by the 10 spies and lack of faith by the generation as a whole).

    And certainly a youngster of 12 or 14 years can’t get through the 100s of questions in the OM book nor comprehend the “marriage”-type vows to JWorg. Well, very few beside the newest (and youngest) member of the GB.

  13. skally says:

    I wonder how many kids, right NOW, are studying to become legally binded to this organization, through baptism, and there is someone in their hall that knows it is all a fraud and what the policies will now result in this childs life, but ………..

    these types of thoughts haunt me. I cannot help it when these thoughts enter my mind and the feelings they stir up surface from the special compartment they are tightly holed up in. And the fact that one of those kids will actually ‘sign the contract’, while someone with THE TRUTH sits by and allows it to happen drives me absolutely nuts. Can’t help that people. And I will not apologize for it.

    I thank you though for your replies.

    ~skally~

  14. skally says:

    Re: the comments on my comments to cedars; thank you for the replies, yet you are not understanding the crux of my comments nor any of its points. You were not meant to do such.

    There is never anything “silly” about what I do when it comes to dealing with this lethal organization and its money hungry, power thirsty MEN. Thinking such IS silly however.

    It is best not to counter my comments to cedars. He is a MAN and can stand and speak for himself over comments directed solely to him. Even by woMEN, such as myself. He shows no fear in that regard, so I treat him with none.

    However, if any feel the ‘need’ to interject between us, that of course, is solely your choice.

    ~~skally~~

  15. Cedars says:

    A fellow victim of child baptism speaks out…

  16. Vincent Deporter says:

    I feel your pain. We have much in common. I was also baptized thru ignorance. Fun fact, I didn’t answer to the 2 questions. In my heart at the time, I felt I wasn’t really baptized. :/

  17. Excelsior, formerly known as George says:

    I feel your frustration, skally. It is horrible to feel powerless in the face of such mistreatment.

    However, good folks like Cedars and others are fighting the good fight to help. I am hopeful that many will come out, especially as this promised, panda cuddling paradise fails to arrive. Credulity can only be stretched so far, even with their truly formidable BITE techniques.

    It will fall in time.

  18. Brooke says:

    that video of the girl ceders.. wow.

  19. Excelsior, formerly known as George says:

    Hello Cedars,

    I thought that a good addition to the survey would be an impact statement. A short paragraph or toe where the participant could explain the consequences of the laws they make. No negative attack, but an honest appraisal of what actually happens to the people these people judge.

    Also, alas, on a totally different point, I am increasingly concerned at the lack of care given to the elderly. A sister nearby lives in quite appalling conditions. She allegedly has bi polar disorder and isn’t on any medication.

    She has recently asked the elders for help, and they have been very unhelpful, and allegedly rude.

    It’s another scandal, Cedars, I’m sure of it. I don’t know if anyone else has contacted you about this topic?

    I certainly remember helping old people when I was a young witness in the 80s and early 90s. I would give them lifts to the meetings and other young people would do gardening, shopping etc.

    The elders are arranging to have this sister’s washing done, and her shopping bought. They have said 24/7 if you need anything just call, which is to be commended. But this poor woman is mentally ill and she won’t call. And then when she finally asks for help, she gets rudeness.

    I have no reason to like this poor woman. She caused my poor old Dad hell for over a decade and the elders did nothing. I’ve forgiven a mentally ill woman for what she did. She was doing what she thought was right.

    But still I am concerned for her as my mother’s best friend and a human being in distress.

    Has any data been gathered on how the elderly are cared for? I would be very interested to know.

    Maybe all these baby boomers they promised in the late 60s would never die growing liver spots and white hair is just a geriatric slap in the face for their millennialist religion?

    Thanks for your help, Excelsior!

  20. Ryan says:

    Cedars, everybody that left, and current jw’s that are trapped within the Borg stay strong!

    I had parents that fortunately didn’t force me to get baptized.. (Got baptized at 17)

    Anyways!

    I left for several reasons.. Some of the questions I asked myself is what can I do as a jw? Would I raise my kids as jw’s? Would I shun my own family if they went down a different path in life? (Religion, sexuality, ect..)

    After thinking about those questions for awhile I decided to leave.. It’s hard that the majority of my ‘friends’ and family shun me.. But sometimes you gotta move on..

  21. Willows says:

    If the Bible is the example the Watchtower follow…..
    Where in the Bible is child baptism mentioned?

    To encourage a child to be baptized is placing the child in a dangerous situation. Much like placing a child on a high wire and encouraging them to walk to the other side without a safety net. A mature person can make that decision not a child.

    If the Watchtower can not produce one scriptural example of child baptism. Then they need to acknowledge they have overstepped the scriptural guide lines. Jesus was baptized at 30 , not when he was 12.

  22. Excelsior, formerly known as George says:

    Willows, a succinct appraisal! I suggest that they will come to regret this push to infant baptism.

    It is another rod with which reasonable people will beat them with.

    In the meantime, we can only encourage folks to think about the consequences.

  23. Joel Eastman says:

    Yes,that’s the “that’s the born and raised” Jehovah’s witness experience I had.I was sixteen and by then everybody looked down on you if your not Babtized,your unofficially “bad association” .Looking back I can see that I was being played,I dissacociated myself from the Watchtower 3 years ago shortly after getting a smart phone with internet access.I took control of my life and left the “Christian thing” altogether,I practice Wicca now.

  24. Joel Eastman says:

    I know these people twisted and retwist the bible to fit there agenda.King James,council of nicea and The catholic church have done that too.I had to totally deprogram from the bible and start totally fresh.That Watchtower organization has to go,because they deceive,and misrepresent themselves with there “public literature”.What they really are following is the secret elder manual “Shepherd the flock of god” which they keep secret.

  25. Joel Eastman says:

    I try to look at this as a learning experience.I think a lot harder about decisions I make,I made a bad mistake getting babtized at 16 but I am not going to let the JW’s define who I am,or how I feel.We all are comforting each other on the loss of our family,and I feel that energy helping me heel.Let’s be thankful we didn’t lose it and commit suicide,or hurt others.I know how these circumstances have tested me.I guess the gov. Body’s would like you to lose it,and throw your life away so you don’t tell your story’s.On a lighter note my wife likes a show sons of anarchy,about a motor cycle gang.As I watch it sometimes I think I’m glad I’m not in that,some groups kill ya if you try to leave,see the same mutually assured destruction tactics though.

  26. Joel Eastman says:

    I loved the video about kid baptism,its right on.I remember the good old days of My Book Of Bible Story’s on cassette by candle light.Those were spiritual and memorable experiences with mom and dad.I loved Jehovah so much as a boy,I never thought I would be unhappy if I got baptized.I was;the only ones that were smiling and happy were the sons of the elders.They were a click,that hung out and drank together.It came to my attention that I was not included because they were worried I would tell.This congregation is the Oak Creek Congregation Of Jehovah’s Witnesses.This is the hall that caused me to turn away,and happy that I did.I would have been a lonely single 34 year old virgin if I hadn’t awakend from there spell years earlier.This organization is cursed to fall shortly,thanks to my doing.I called forth the god Shiva to lay waste to the society in a ritual.I have a relationship with this god threw a mantra which I have recited a million times.
    They will fall:-)

  27. Magusknight1974 says:

    I agree with the above views. Baptism is for those that understand fully their commitment. Jesus was never 12 when he was baptized but older and wiser in his thirties. Unfortunately this organization has lost the real truth about the bible. If making baby zombies is their desperate solution then I see a future of stagnant growth. Looking back today it was a form of child abuse when I was pressured into making my decision as a teenage youth. I was more educated than the elders were when they frequently misquoted the bible texts towards their agendas. All members are slaves to the master architects of this sect of religion. Anytime you turn on your family over religion then you have truly lost the meaning of LOVE.

  28. skally says:

    [quote][b]I guess that this is the closest they get to a bit of titillation,[/b][/quote]

    Which is just about as close as you can get to being a pedophile as you can get, I’d say. Oh yeah, I just DID.

    If that dynamic is occuring and so many are still thinking that they must actually go to these ridiculous torture sessions, they truly need to re-think who is doing the mind controlling her. Or better yet, who are you ALLOWING to control it and govern it, with these types of ‘hearings’ by such riDICKulous little men? It boggles this mind, and it is hard to control my thoughts on why so many ALLOW themselves to be slaves to this insanity even one more day. You are a human with your own mind and whom you allow to control it. Even if it is you who you are allowing to control it. You do not need to go to those ‘hearings’ and ALLOW THESE PERVERTS THEIR HOUR OF PORNOGRAPHIC PLEASURE BY ASKING SUCH DETAILED QUESTIONS. Think hard, pun intended for those whom Know its intention, about this concept. These are sick, twisted men, governing your childrens lives, and you are allowing it .

    Write this memo on your mirrors: “NOT ONE MORE DAY”. Count how many days it takes YOU to get to where you can wipe it off.

    It really is up to what you allow these little men of no significance to do with YOUR LIVES. And allowing them to get their petrified rocks off by conducting these torture sessions where minors are involved. Who’s gonna do something about THAT situation occuring , even as we speak? What could you do? Well, you could be there when you know there will be a hearing and protest what occurs there. State your protest clearly. What you view the dynamic of such a hearing and what actually occurs, to be. STAND UP TO THEM AND TELL THEM THEY DO NOT NEED TO ASK GROSS QUESTIONS OF MINORS. Share with your fellow jws that they do not need to go to these sessions and be at risk of becoming a silent victim to how these men are becoming AROUSED. [cedarrs needs to do that type of survey so we can get some idea of the level of this type of perversion going on…think about it…how sick is this…the more i think about my jc meeting, the more i want to do this survey:

    Any ex jc hearing jws here care to be honest and responsible and tell us if this has indeed been the case, in any degree? And the after-chatter too: was there ‘back n forth’ chatter about what went down in hearings such as mine?

    Were you ever aroused by what a ‘minor plaintiff’ was revealing to you through your detailed sexual questions?

    How about this type of survey so we can stop these ridiculous hearings cedars? Good idea, eh?

    ~skally~

  29. Freedomancer says:

    It’s not just morally wrong, it’s illegal.

    As of 1985, baptism is a legally binding contract. Entering into a legally binding contract with a minor is fraudulent and nullifies the contract.

  30. George says:

    You need evidence that Jesus used 12 apostles to carry on his work after Jesus died?

    Ok help me, help me find the age requirement in the Bible please.

  31. TAL says:

    Good Point. Never looked at that before, Jesus was 30 years old. WOW!

  32. jannapr says:

    I’ve noticed the look on a couple of the Governing body members face when they speak of the children and how they’re supposed to do whats right etc.They seemed filled with anger or hatred.True they’ve always wanted infants to be baptized but now they’ve gotten real firm with it. I was surprised.. but then realized why they’re probably pressuring kids/infants. If you look at the whole picture you can see why coming from the Governing Body/evil slave. Elders have been taken to court on numerous account for sexual assault against a child. This must anger the Governing Body because they become exposed and this has bent their wallet a bit. So now they want to make sure these children are under their control .Or ,a little mistake from the child then out they go now the elder cant rape them and relief for the Governing Body ..one less child to worry about. lol Them pressuring these children/infants is for their protection. But once again this is not of the holy God I know..nor of our prime example Jesus who was baptized at 30.

  33. miroslav says:

    It is nice to see people freely expressing their opinions and even nicer to see how they base it on the Scripture. So, I agree with majority that minor baptism is WRONG because “when infant baptism began is not known with preciseness, but it was definitely after the death of the apostles of Jesus Christ that the practice appeared. Explains The Encyclopœdia Britannica: “The whole early period knows baptism only for ADULTS, who join themselves of their own resolve to the Christian community. Infant baptism appears sporadically towards the end of the second century and was practiced also during the following centuries, yet only as an exception.”—Vol. 3, page 84.” watchtower 1961 15 january.
    There is not a single evidence that minors were baptised, only “men and women”(Acts 8:12).However, I disagree with some who think that person must be at least 30 years old.Yes, Jesus was baptized at that age, but his baptism put much burden on his shoulder, much more than to any Christian (Hebrews 10:5-10;Isaiah 9:6).I think that we have one example of man who was baptized in his twenties – Timothy.There are some uncertainties of course, but it is probable that he was baptized at that age.I am also worried because some among you feel free to insult others.Although it feels good sometimes, Bible does not approve it (Col 4:6).If you want to be better than these 8 GB members, you should respect other opinion!Also, it looks like a good idea that Goverment should protect freedom of JW members, but do not forget all kingdoms are in SATANS HANDS!!! So, do not expect too much. Poseban pozdrav za Dina m. Razmisljamo veoma sično! Prijatelju, ako čitaš ovu poruku kaži nešto!

  34. jmae says:

    I fully agree with your analysis on baptism of children. I want to thank you for your research and for sharing it! I would like to let the elders know the reasons why I will leave… But my parents and my brother are JW and I fear the consequences of shunning. So, I am leaving by the backdoor… Human rights are violated on a daily basis and I think that nothing can be done against that policy. I tried to explain my reasons… but I am not free to do it. Are you familiar with this feeling: “anything you say may be used against”? “You must keep silence and wait in Jehova…”, they say. I feel like a hamster running non stopping to nowhere. Thank you very much!

  35. sally says:

    The governing body is not concerned or interested in the lives of the children, or what ‘may’ happen if these same children leave the ‘truth’ and the family must then follow the law (of the governing body) and shun them. The sole reason they are pushing for children to be baptized, at ever a younger age, is to keep their numbers artificially inflated. So many are leaving, their numbers are dropping. This is just a numbers game, pure and simple. A book publishing company parading itself around as a religion!! Then when their numbers drop, as they look to their charts and realize this, ah! They must think up a new scheme, a way of presenting this organization as flourishing, even when it clearly is not! It’s all numbers to them, keep the poor blinded sheeple unaware of the large numbers that are leaving, point to all the new baptism’s and hope they don’t wake up and realize what the heck is going on!

  36. Georgie formerly know as George says:

    Yes World War 1 and 2 fulfills Bible prophecy. Read the Bible. Matthew 24 3-8.

    You attacked my light gets brighter “slogan” from the Bible? What does it mean? And what about the wheat and the weeds? Is there not a food shortage? There is hardly any REAL food being produced… mostly GMO. Jesus was told by his father, no other explanation needed.

    Yes I do agree kids have rights, and they should not have them read the Bible just like that young brother on that ladder leading to the podium..almost reaching to the heavens. but I think it made the parents proud as well as Jehovah.

  37. Excelsior! says:

    Georgie,

    Kingdom fought against Kingdom in August of 1914, some months before Satan was supposedly cast out of Heaven!

    Humanity has fought over various and sundry disagreements for thousands of years.

    I’m afraid you’re going to have to do better to convince me that the two world wars were specifically meant in the vague list of “kingdoms will fight other kingdoms” section of Matthew 24.

    Now, back to the topic in hand. Do you agree that a child (someone below the age of majority) should get baptised, Goergie? Can you provide me with a biblical precedent for child baptism, Georgie?

    Children are being baptised, and then shunned by their own families when they later decide that your religion isn’t for them. Do you think that is compatible with Christianity, Georgie?

    Would you shun a family member who either disassociated themselves or were disfellowshipped, Georgie?

    Peace be with you, Excelsior!

  38. Lester Rafuse says:

    I don’t seem to get to read these comments regularly but it is always a chuckle when I do.
    Georgie seems to be a thoroughly brainwashed believer in WT dorma (and I might add that “Excelsior” seems to be a thinking individual (not presently, (or I assume no longer, good Witness material).
    How anyone, with a minimum of common sense and reasoning power, can parrot the WT line on history and increasing “light”, is beyond my understanding. My experience with former JWs is that when your eyes are opened you may hang in there to maintain the family connection but you certainly would not argue the discredited theology of the WT.
    I assume either “Georgie” is still a JW or has, through his former association with the WT, been mentally castrated.
    Either way, he needs to examine his thinking processes, because he makes very little sense.

  39. mamajane says:

    I got baptized in my 30’s. I had been going to the hall since i was 8 or 9. My daughter got baptized before me at age 14. Neither one of us felt anything special after the fact. I was even questioning myself as I sat there and listened to the baptismal talk…. I was just going through the motions. My daughter did it because she was so pressured by the elders to do it. My daughter wants nothing to do with jw’s and their religion. I have left the cult org and now Baptized properly, in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit! Not into an CULT organization!!!

    • Lorissa says:

      Hi, I was baptized at age 11 into the SDA cult. Through a deceptive slight of hand tactic by the organization the membership vow happened straight after the dunking. This vow covered acceptance of all the distinctive false doctrines, but the wording of these was carefully crafted to seem streamline orthodox Christianity and was not in any way the same as the ‘baptismal studies’ that were undertaken before the event which where biblical & gospel focused. A dozen kids all my age that were baptized that day were lined up in front of the church, the vows read and we raised our hands in unison (peer pressure) as a show of acceptance of these shocking vows.
      Anyway, I saw the comment about it being illegal to put minors under religious contracts such as these and am researching whether a class action suit can be an option. Any thoughts??
      I have written to my home church to ask for the removal of my membership but they haven’t replied.
      I am truly sorry for what happened to so many of the kids in the JW religion. It would seem cult operate in a very similar fashion to deceive and abuse the innocent. I was 25 years old before I had any meaningful relationship with any Christain outside the denomination. We where taught to shun the world too…

  40. Void ab Initio says:

    @Lorissa, that was my comment.

    Baptizing a minor has nothing to to with morals; it’s strictly business. Fraudulent business? Yes, but a judge might have to decide that for a class (a group of people with a claim).

    Here’s a quick rundown on how an individual is legally bound (tl;dr, skip this primer if you want):

    WTBTS, Inc.’s lawyers recognized the liability public libel brought during the Ray Franz-induced witch hunt of the early 80s. The org. couldn’t just libel dissidents willy-nilly; they needed a contractual basis — they needed consent! So, in a genius move, they retooled their “baptismal” questions to absolve the org. of liability by adding a byline to the contract, viz.: “Do you understand that…baptism…[identifies] you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization™?” When the initiate shouts an unqualified “Yes!” in front of thousands of fact witnesses, they legally contract.

    Because the “baptismal candidate” didn’t qualify their consent, WTBTS, Inc. presumes that they agree to all policies, benefits, and duties of a member of the org. These preclude the new member’s natural rights. When challenged, WTBTS uses established case law to justify its actions.

    If you were baptized in the past 30-odd years, you agreed to the org.’s terms unconditionally. WTBTS, Inc. is well within its legal rights to change the contract/policy at any time and demand performance according to said contract…

    …that is, of course, unless you’re a minor. Then, things get interesting.

    WTBTS, Inc.’s “baptism” is a legally binding contract, and no U.S. licensed company can contract with a minor (without a cosignatory, usually a parent).

    A class action suit is possible. The question is whether the class would be able to find representation in the public.

    There’re certain benefits WTBTS/SDA, Inc. are entitled to as religious organizations. One of them is that the government (in the case of the U.S.) that licensed them is very hands-off.

    Would an attorney bring the claim(s) of a class to a (federal if in the U.S., because this involves interstate commerce) judge when the federal organization s/he works for has a laissez-faire policy toward religious companies? That’s the mystery and hurdle.

    In my experience, courts operate on the principle in Mat. 18: go to your brother privately first before going to a magistrate. Since (in many countries) incorporated companies are considered PERSONS, an individual could approach that corp. (“brother”) privately and nullify the contract if it is fraudulent.

    The hitch with private contracting is that WTBTS, Inc.’s corporate policy is to immediately try to renegotiate (“We just want to talk.”) and then publicly libel the individual (by using their given name in a meeting open to the public). They presume your consent to this by your baptism.

    I firmly believe there are ways to go about this privately, but it’s a minefield. Stepping on one of these mines would mean public banishment for those that contracted.

    I’m working on a private way to nullify the contract while not being libeled, (regardless of the individual’s age of baptism — having my cake and eating it too. I’ll let everyone know when I get there.

    In the meantime, if the spirit moves any of you to find a lawyer that would take this case, keep us posted.

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