A few weeks ago I was contacted by one of a number of active elders who are “awakened” from Watchtower indoctrination, but who must keep up a pretense of being loyal to the organization due to being threatened with shunning.
This elder told me that he had recently attended the special meeting between his circuit overseer and the local body of elders.
Apparently, an unusual topic was brought up towards the end of the discussion involving official instructions on dress and grooming that echoed Tony Morris’ infamous “tight pants” rant at the 2014 US branch visit.
There was little I could do about this story at the time, because it was one anonymous person’s anecdotal account that was impossible to corroborate. Occasionally I have to put a story like this on the back-burner until further details emerge.
But then, to my delight, a bethelite recently approached me with parts of the circuit overseer “outline” featuring the exact material the elder described. Scans of the pertinent parts are below. You will notice that circuit overseers are only to start discussing the material once ministerial servants have been dismissed from their part of the meeting…
Three things stand out about the above instructions to elders. Perhaps most significantly, the guidelines shamelessly discriminate against people who, by their nature, display traits of the opposite sex.
Homosexuality has long been condemned by the organization thanks to various passages from the Bible. But now Watchtower is taking matters one step further. It is not enough to simply refrain from acting on one’s homosexual impulses, which are widely acknowledged to be with someone from childhood rather than being learned behavior, as Watchtower insists.
In the wake of these new guidelines, merely acting in a camp or effeminate way if you are male, or in a tom-boyish way if you are a female, is enough to render you a second-class citizen if you are a Jehovah’s Witness.
This removes arguably the last argument commonly used in defending the organization’s homophobic stance – that it is okay to be gay so long as you don’t act on it. Now a person’s very nature is being brought under scrutiny, and elders now have a free license to inflict misery on any Witness who wrestles with their feelings toward others of their gender even if they are being careful to observe the bible’s prohibitions on homosexuality.
The second, rather obvious point is that sanctioning the kind of clothes someone wears is the very essence of totalitarianism. These latest instructions could have come straight out of a page of George Orwell’s 1984.
Whether someone chooses to wear tight fitting clothes or not, or is inclined to wear their hair in a style reminiscent of the opposite sex, is clearly a personal choice and has nothing whatsoever to do with whether they are a good person or not. Watchtower’s obsession with appearance demonstrates to any reasonable onlooker that the organization is now primarily concerned with the superficial rather than the spiritual – with the earthly rather than the heavenly.
It would be hard to imagine Jesus pulling someone to one side and scolding them because their garments were too “tight fitting,” “revealing” or “highlighted the body.” By contrast, Watchtower is now pursuing such trifling matters with pharasaical fervor, to the point of telling someone they can’t go preaching if they don’t fall in line. (I understand many ex-Witnesses reading this would feel relieved to be banned from the tedious door-to-door work, but let’s remember the mindset of indoctrinated Witnesses, who feel their participation in the ministry is a life-or-death matter.)
It was in 1 Corinthians 4:6 that Paul (whose words are so often quoted in support of Watchtower’s ideas about clothing) is reported to have instructed: “Do not go beyond the things that are written.” It will be difficult for any Witness reading this information to not see that this is precisely what the Governing Body is unashamedly doing – going beyond what is written in the Bible and making up new, arbitrary rules based on nothing more than personal opinion and preference.
For some reason known only to the likes of Tony Morris, the style of dress and grooming that was fashionable in the 1950s is what God has in mind for all Christians if they want to survive Armageddon, and anyone who wears anything more modern and fashionable is treading on thin ice.
This brings me to my third and final observation, which is to note the ease with which Tony Morris’ personal homophobic fixations have translated into official Watchtower policy.
As I noted at the time of his eccentric ramblings at the 2014 U.S. branch visit (see above), the smartest thing for the Governing Body to do in the wake of Tony’s ludicrous performance would have been to eject him from their inner circle. Doing so would have sent a powerful no-nonsense message that the Bible is the organization’s sole authority, and there is no room for egos or personal crusades.
Instead, with the issuing of this circuit overseer outline, the Governing Body has done the opposite. They have shown that either (1) they are easily manipulated by a strong personality, or (2) they have shared Morris’ “metrosexual” concerns all along and just didn’t have the guts to enact laws on the subject until now.
Either way, the evidence that the Governing Body is deluded and completely unworthy of respect or veneration is there for all to see. And as yet more secretive, eyes-only material like the above continues to seep from Watchtower’s increasingly porous walls, we are being treated to a warts-and-all portrait of a backwards bunch of senile, deluded men with nothing left to offer but narrow-mindedness, bigotry, and a doomsday fantasy.
Further reading…
- Tony Morris scapegoats gay people in bizarre child abuse denial rant
- Dear Watchtower, THANK YOU for your “tight pants” copyright complaint!
- Rawstory: Jehovah’s Witness leader promotes child safety cartoon with homophobic rant
- Freethinker: JW chief targets gays in child abuse video
- Pink News: Jehovah’s Witness Leader, “homosexuals” are child abusers
- After his branch visit performance, is “Tight Pants Tony” now a liability for the Governing Body?
- Deluded or dangerous? – My thoughts on Anthony Morris III following his Rome visit
Related video…
Back in my teenage years which actually were the sixties, the initial contents of the letter would be applauded as a corect and responsible religious lead. I would hear the same from teachers at school.
However to worry about tight pants is very small to the real child molesting problems.
Tight pants are not good for males and some medics would point to sperm count reductions as evidence of this.
You see young men in public seating unable it seems to sit squarely in a seat, perhaps becase the pants when sat squarely in cause uncomfortable crush in personal places, either that or there is a quite epidemic of swollen testes. You see them knees over the seats either side of them.
As we age, how we have cared for our body can be rewarded by it lasting in better condition and functionality.
Unable to sire your own children if the worst happens is no laughing matter.
So yet another ‘secret’ edict, deemed only fit for elders’ understanding, is revealed.
Governing Body and Associated Hierarchy of the Watchtower Soc, don’t you get it yet? There are no more elders-only edicts possible. Thanks to the internet age of information, your reprehensible policies will be exposed every time.
These new diktats on clothing are discriminatory in most countries, as well as cruel and stupid.
GB and henchmen, you are going beyond what is written; you know it and you don’t care, because your only deity is power. Thanks to the internet, though, more and more people now know this too. You will be called on your system and its myriad cruelties, and you will have to defend yourselves. You might want to start liaising with your own legal department — you’re going to need it!
There’s a sister in my hall that wears a very butchy looking hair cut. I guess the elders are gonna have to “counsel” her. …smh.
The most disturbing passage of the outline is the injunction against “effeminate… bearing, body-language and speech.” These are subconcious traits and mostly beyond control. As if witnesses with these traits do not suffer enough pointless shame!
I recall many bethelites from my time who were described as effeminate, and put up with all kinds of disrespectful treatment while continuing to work there for years. The atmosphere was paradoxical. The same bethelites who indulged in homophobic name calling also regularly made homoerotic jokes about eachother. Many witnesses outside would be shocked by the humour between bethel boys.
But, that is only a natural consequence of locking up a load of hormonal young boys in cramped rooms, banning masturbation and telling them that they can’t have a girlfriend for a year.
So far the society hasnt offered a “gay cure” for the rank and file but it has reportedly been tried in bethel a few years ago with “masculinity classes”, so watch this space.
What would elders have made of the apostle John lying in the bosom of Jesus? (Oh, but they changed that in the latest bible to “close to”)
It seems like tougher times are coming for witnesses who struggle to keep on the so called “straight” path and I really feel sorry for them.
Imagine the legal fiasco though, if a disgruntled bethelite is ejected for being effeminate and takes the society to court for discrimination?
If the GB keeps setting these stumbling blocks down in front of themselves, they are bound to keep tripping into a thorny patch of increasingly liberal law.
Effeminate? You mean like shaving your face to look for feminine? or are we applying WT trademark interpretation of this word too?
That idea of “the way that people dressed when I was a kid is how ‘God’s People’ ought to dress” is likely responsible for many of the religious groups that dress funny.
Hasidic Jews (1800s Poland), burka-wearing Muslims (way back Middle East), Amish, “Holiness” Christians.
Perhaps if clothing styles change enough the JWs will enter that category.
The term Gastrosexuity was used and it brought to mind part of the Torah which forbids the lardicapped and men without genitelia to serve as Levites at worship. Most of the GB are undeniably obese and this medical fact came to mind
http://www.medicaldaily.com/circumcised-men-and-obese-men-sometimes-end-buried-penis-what-it-318794
In high school I worked in a hospital laundry room and the doctors used to come to our dock area and smoke cigarettes. One time I asked one of them for if he had an extra cig, and he proceeded to tell me that his was a disgusting habit. He said show me a smoker or a fat guy and ill show you someone who never wipes himself. He went on some rant about how the vast majority of fat guys they had to undress or smokers all had this foul problem. It was a sign of no discipline or self control in their lives. I would love for fat tony or any of these other horizontally challenged false prophets to write that Awake article.
@Robert67…. YOU HAVE COURAGE & GUTS to TALK ABOUT …. FAT PEOPLE !!
LOOKS LIKE ME & YOU COULD BE SQUASHED to DEATH By the … AS You Say .. HORIZONTALLY CHALLENGED PEOPLE…. SHhhhh .. DON’T MENTION the .., F??? .. WORD .. !!
I think I’ll Just POP DOWN to MACDONALDS !!!
WHY DON’T FAT PEOPLE HAVE a SENSE of HUMOUR???
I allway thought of myself as the “good elder” When I became an elder there was only10-15 years difference between me and some of the young brothers in the KH. Although I was married with and soon to have a baby I personally still enjoyed playing basketball,football,and baseball. I was usually the organizer of these sports with the teenage boys in the congregation,and a lot of these kids where sons of elders.These where truly fine young men that I enjoyed mentoring and being there safety net when it came to athletics.They were doing all that their parents and the WTBTS asked of them.
Of course we get our visit from the CO, he goes down his checklist of what the congregation was doing right,wrong or other wise.All in all we get a good report.Then he mentions that noticed some of the brother had “worldly dress (again these were good clean cut kids) I stayed silent because I assumed these men would stand up for their own sons.Not one of them did. I was so ashamed for them. Finally I couldn’t take anyone more everyone in the meeting that these were kids, not 40, 50, 60 year old men and that we should not expect nor want them to dress like us. The room got silent…..And in the CO’s defense he said “well, if you brother are OK with it then I am” I never look at those elders the same way again
That’s exactly what being an elder is all about. Good for you for standing up for them. If you defend what’s right, despite how others on the body react, you can do good for the congregation.
I can’t believe the rest of the GB have sided with TPT. A sad day indeed.
I’m reminded of Trevor Noah’s sketch on YouTube when he was told by a friend “Don’t be gay!” That’s funny but this situation if elders go along with it is very sad indeed. Marking people for being effeminate or for having the wrong hairstyle is bad enough but not even having the backbone to inform the cong why… that’s because if the cong as a whole get to know of this then they would be outraged. I for one am not going to sit quietly when the CO brings this up.
PS. Lloyd, I’m glad you found someone to corroborate my story. I can see your reasoning why you need to wait before publishing stuff. If only the GB were as reasonable.
I think Tony 1,2,3 left Vietnam for the same reason Maxwell Klinger tried to leave in the tv show M.A.S.H
and despite his “biography” no one can seem to find an Anthony Morris lll on any service list for Vietnam and the things he describes happening where he was “stationed” are openly denied by real veterans of that war.
@Robert67 ..,, ITS on PUBLIC RECORD & IT HAS GUTTED ME to the HEART!! .. That Our DEAR ANTHONY MORRIS ., MOST BELOVED was DISCHARGED From VIETNAM because HE WAS TOO FAT & His NICKNAME was ‘BIG TONY’ or was it ‘…BURGER KING TONY’!!
Hi Pickled Brain, do you have a reference for that comment? Would really appreciate it.
Regards
Keith
I was in Vietnam about the same time as Tony says he was. His descriptions of his time there are colourful to say the least. Sometimes I wonder if he really was.
@gardy … You say you know brothers that are KINDA FAT , BUT DONT EAT A LOT ‘ …, WELL there were 6 MILLION JEWS that WENT INTO the CONCENTRATION CAMPS , Some VERY FAT& GENETICALLY some came from FAT Parents, BUT After 6 YEARS EVERY ONE WAS BONEY & SKINNY !!! IT is a KNOWN FACT that you RESTRICT CALORIES to 800 a Day for 6 WEEKS thenTYPE 2 DIABETES can be Reversed& YOU WILL LOSE WEIGHT!!! IT IS CALLED … ‘ SELF CONTROL’!!! The GB MAKE NO EXCUSES for Someone Who SMOKES JUST ONE CIGARETTE Even though there is NO SCRIPTURAL LAW Against it BUT There is for GLUTTONS & GREEDY PEOPLE …..NAME ME ONE Brother or Sister who has been DISFELLOWSHIPPED for FATNESS , YET PLENTY for SMOKING!!!
I’m sure there is some Awake home school science article justifying the gluttony with “I’m big boned” or “I have a gland problem” Both of these statements have been repeatedly discredited, you might pack an extra few pounds due to any condition, but none gives you the mass of two, three, four human beings. It’s that same Awake science condemning sleeping on your side or vaccinations or …….Here in the States members are encouraged to enjoy the bounty of welfare benefits and the free food buffets they place on your table. Your forbidden from seeking the type of employment that would contribute to the benefit system, but also tought that
You are entitled to all the free you can get out of the worldly governments tit. Everyone still in, needs to defiantly wear tight suits, grow beards, go to school and write to your local politicians to ban the cults carts from selling their cult ideology on public streets.
Pickled brain, are you telling me that people should starve themselves to death ( like in the concentrations camps) to follow the Bible command on gluttony or self control? That would be very simplistic to explain the obesity pandemic in terms of how much someone eats on a daily basis. What do you do with factors such as the global food system, the genetic make up of individuals, the almost generalized sedentary life of our modern societies which its lack of exercises, individuals cultural background and their environment, etc? The obesity problem is multidimensional and cannot be understood by taken into account a single factors. Moreover, I don’t need the Bible to tell me that smoking is harmful! This is an evidence that smoking is unhealthy even for people who don’t even care about religion whatsoever!
@gardy…. As You ACKNOWLEDGE !! SMOKING KILLS… SO YOU WARN PEOPLE About it !! WHY ?? BECAUSE YOU LOVE THEM!!
FATNESS & OBESITY KILLS … SO YOU WARN THEM !!! EAT GRILLED FISH & CHICKEN & SALADS & VEG .. SMALL PORTIONS !!
OBESITY CAUSES DIABETES, HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE , STROKES , HEART ATTACKS, & CANCERS!!!
PLEASE READ @ Hippocrates POST Above yours @ Gardy . He Makes a LOT of SENSE!
I am NOT BEING INSENSITIVE !! OHhh PLEASE …. You Say ThERE Are SLIM GLUTTONS ???? That is what an AWAKE said about 10 years ago !! LIVES are at STAKE…
@ pickled brain, don’t get bitter and feel compelled to go against any biblical stand ( like the one on homosexuality) take by the jw. You might have been a victim of the Watchtower Society like many others but you don’t have to be insensitive. The obesity epidemic cannot be explained by a single factor; it is multidimensional! I consider myself that the global food system ( GMO) is one the biggest cause of death in the world. The so called organic food is actually not an alternative for many poor people in the world. Moreover, I know people that some would consider as gluttons but who are very slims and some who don’t even eat half their daily intake who are struggling with weight issues!
@gardy … HOW CAN YOU SAY THERE is NO BIBLICAL STAND AGAINST GLUTTONY or GREEDY PEOPLE .., In the MOSAIC LAW .. GLUTTONS Were STONED to DEATH & How About JESUS CHRIST who WARNED AGAINST OVER EATING & OVER DRINKING & ANXIETIES of LIFE & LINKED IT with DAYS of NOAH When that DAY would come those like a SNARE.
WHY is IT FAT PEOPLE GET SO DEFENSIVE !!!
YOU ARE KILLING YOURSELVES & YOU ARE ADDING to YOUR DEPRESSION by GETTING FATTER… !!! IT IS LOVING TO WARN PEOPLE THAT ARE ENDANGERING Their OWN LIVES Like you Would a SMOKER or DRUG ADDICT !!
YOU NEED to GO COLD TURKEY …. ONLY SMALL PORTIONS PLEASE????
@ pickled brain, it seems you completely misunderstood my point! I am not saying binge eating is actually a good thing or there is no bible laws against gluttony! I am just saying that obesity cannot be explained by only one factor, which is how much someone eats on a daily basis. It’s part of my secular job description to encourage people to live an healthy lifestyle!
@Gardy .. OBESITY CAN BE EXPLAINED by ONE FACTOR & that is TOO MANY CALORIES EATEN & NOT ENOUGH CALORIES BURNED OFF !
I HAVE DONE IT MYSELF … STRAP a CAMERA to yourself & REALLY REALLY BE HONEST with Ourselves who are or have been FAT… My Mother & Grandmother died of STROKES .. It Runs in my Family … I LOST 6 STONE by EATING JUST GRILLED FISH, VEG & SALAD & EXERCISED …. IF YOU NEED HELP CONTACT a HEALTH PROFESSIONAL!
BUT LETS ALL BE HONEST & HAVE the COURAGE to SAY .. I AM or WAS TOO GREEDY!!
I used to LOVE ‘KEBABS ‘ twice a week! But ONE KEBAB contained 199 Grammes of FAT ! I Loved FISH & CHIPS, SAUSAGES,BURGERs, PIZZA, HAAGEN DAZ ,etc BUT my BLOOD PRESSURE SOARED …I WAS GREEDY & FAT !! LETS TELL the TRUTH!!
GOVERNMENTS HAVE SHAMED SMOKERS by Saying SMOKING KILLS … WELL … SATURATED FAT KILLS!!! & EATING TOO MANY CALORIES in EXCESS to the CALORIES BURNED OFF will mean FAT PEOPLE!!
Well Gardy I have ENJOYED our LITTLE REPARTEE… I am SURE we can AGREE on One thing is OBESITY KILLS PEOPLE & You Can PUSSYFOOT Around BUT PEOPLE ARE HAVING FEET AMPUTATED & Other LIMBS AMPUTATED & DYING EARLY because of FAT RELATED DISEASES LIKE DIABETES !
@gardy .., please don’t use that EXCUSE that ORGANIC FOOD is NOT an ALTERNATIVE for POOR PEOPLE .. I DID NOT SAY THAT& THAT is a FEEBLE EXCUSE … SO MANY People on BENEFITS SPEND a FORTUNE on FAST CONVENIENT FOOD, LOTTERY TICKETS,ALCOHOL & CIGARETTES! & Even if they didn’t … THERE is PLENTY of NON ORGANIC FRUIT & VEG & Baked Beans, Kidney Beans,Sardines,Tuna,Mackerel cheaper than the CRISPS,CHOCOLATE ,CAKES , BISCUITS,Coca Cola & other FIZZY DRINKS I HAVE SEEN ‘POOR ‘ PEOPLE PUT in Their SHOPPING TROLLEY !!
STOP MAKING EXCUSES & SAVE LIVES!!!
My son is about 150 pounds overweight and if anybody said anything to him about his weight, I know it would kill him emotionally. He suffers from terrible depression and I would hate anybody who would do that to him and I don’t think I could ever forgive anybody who did that to him.
It isn’t nice to talk about people’s weight, no matter how much sense it makes to people with “normal” weights. None of us know what those people are going through and how much they wished they could lose weight and look “normal” like everybody else.
Picking on people for how they dress and how they look is being pharisaical and shows it is not a “Christian” religion.
@ Anonymous …. If your Son was SMOKING 30 CIGARETTES a DAY because he was DEPRESSED & it Was KILLING HIM would you TALK about it as HIS LIFE Was at STAKE???
If Your SON Is 150 POUNDS OVERWEIGHT I Would ADVISE You to TALK TO HIM ABOUT IT IN A KIND WAY because if You Don’t HE WILL EITHER BE DEAD or Have SEVERE HEALTH PROBLEMS !! & OBESITY Will ONLY ADD to his DEPRESSION
You LOVE HIM SO PLEASE SPEAK TO HIM ABOUT IT!!!
Pickled Brain,
I am overweight. I know it is bad for my health. I do not need to be reminded by you, thank you all the same.
I smoke. I know it is bad for my health. I do not need to be reminded by you, thank you all the same.
People are already aware of the health risks, sir. That’s the easy part.
I have found on my own experience that I have to have something to lose, to provide me with the incentive to improve my condition.
Many people, such as myself, have to deal with depression and other mental health issues. Some turn to comfort eating to self medicate.
Many JWs are suffering from depression, because of the cognitive dissonance created by the WTBTS cult. They may turn to food as a source of comfort. They may also suffer from poor choices of foods due to a low income and, crucially, a lack of time to prepare healthy meals.
Your point about gluttony being prohibited and punished is biblically correct.
However, your using this arcane piece of literature to browbeat people is a bit too much in my opinion.
I enjoy your lively comments usually, and I am sure that I shall again!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
@Excelsior… WELL WE CAN AGREE ON ONE THING???…, YOU USUALLY ENJOY MY LIVELY COMMENTS …!!
YOU CAN’T PLEASE EVERYONE ALL THE TIME …
I Hope to Keep on Enjoying yours .., So KICK the FAGS & Go On a Diet!…
SIR.
I agree with Pickled (makes me think of pickled eggs, pickled vegetables and other good foods) brain and I always wondered why the Society never ‘picked’ on these really obese elders who would waddle around dispensing their judgements on everyone else.
And Pickeled brain is correct in losing weight. I am practicing fasting myself several times a month. The weight is dropping off quickly along with other health benefits. Set small goals for yourself like just one push-up. You’ll be able to easily do it and probably a lot more. The goal stays small but the results will be huge. Willpower over motivation.
When you are in control over your eating, you will feel in control over your whole life. It will help depression and other mood disorders.
@JJ .., THANK YOU.. JJ .. IT TAKES GUTS & COURAGE to SAY WHAT YOU SAID!!
IF ONLY FAT PEOPLE WOULD BE HONEST & HELP THEMSELVES THEY WOULD BE HAPPIER!!
Pickled Brain,
You have managed to offend many people with your quasi evangelical rant about weight issues.
I am happy that you were able to conquer your own weight issues.
However, your infantile response to my previous post alarms me.
Do you have the capacity to comprehend that weight issues are complex and “one size fits all” solutions, namely your own, simply do not work?
I was hoping for a mature response from you, but all I got was an infantile “go kick the fags and go on a diet!”
If you think that this was a suitable response then I would humbly suggest that your debating skills need some serious improvement.
Rather than constantly bombarding this post with edicts to solve complex emotional, mental and physical problems by simply stopping doing something, why don’t you go and research addictions and come back to the forum with some mature solutions?
I enjoy comedy as much as anyone on this site. However, it does become grating when it is the sole form of discourse.
Funnily enough, you telling me to “kick the fags and go on a diet” have had no positive benefit to me at all. In fact, they have had a deleterious effect.
Are you still a Christian, Pickled Brain? If so, then how has your whole crusade against people with addictions and weight issues brought honour to Jesus Christ?
I think it’s time for us to see a different side to you, sir.
We need to see the good man who is trying to help cult victims by bravely staying inside the cult.
I respect that man. I do not respect the man who has the gall to browbeat people about personal issues that have nothing to do with escaping a cult or are, frankly, any of his business.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Peaceful Excelsior, I always enjoy your comments and am in total agreement with all these judgmental comments coming on. I know it was just used as an example for something but now it seems to be a war on overweight people. Good grief. Isn’t there enough of this crap going on from fathead, picky elders and judgmental picky publishers? It’s like so many here are still exhibiting the traits of the Watchtower. Those of us who have left, know the signs.
I meant disagreement and not agreement.
Meridith, you are so right. I was thinking the same thing. I’m happy you said it. I hate judgemental people.
Thanks Catalina. Truth be known, I was so upset about something else which happened to my husband and daughter. It just stood out like a neon sign to me.
My husband has been going for motorbike rides with a brother who was out for years, but decided to go back. When he was questioned about how he felt about disfellowshipped people and people who had left, he said he would have to follow protocol.
My husband asked him if he had told anyone except his wife that they went riding together, and he said he hadn’t. He said to him “Well, if you stop talking to me because I’m not a Witness, we’re not friends anymore. That is it. You can forget it.”
The other thing was what happened to my daughter the other day. She received a phone call from a friend she had known for a long time when she was a Witness. This girl had decided, after having been out for years, to go back when her husband returned.
My daughter tried to reason with her from the scriptures as she felt that Jesus had been dumbed down by the New World Translation. Of course she did not get anywhere with her but she tried. After awhile her friend said to her “If you keep on with this line of thought, I will have to report this.” My daughter got off the phone and cried which was verified by my little grand daughter. The intolerance is phenomenal and the brainwashing is breathtaking. The most unChristian attitude of these people is disgusting.
Anyway, I wasn’t picking on anyone personally. I just could not help seeing the same judgmental attitude rearing it’s ugly head even on this website.
Why is my comment awaiting moderation? I made a comment about 3 days ago and it is still awaiting moderation. What is going on? Coincidentally, it was the same comment.
My comment about fathead elders probably wasn’t the most well chosen, I suppose considering there are active elders on this site. Sorry for any offense. I had no specific persons in mind.
Meredith you are doing great. I like you because you’re not arrogant. I haven’t heard you say anything that sounds disturbing. You aren’t mean spirited. You are a friend.
The intolerance you and your family are experiencing feels disturbing. It’s funny that sister left the ‘truth’ and then as soon as she returns to it she becomes intolerant all over again. The intolerance I see from JWs and some ex JWS is disturbing. It was enough to make me feel like giving up. It’s people like you who help people like me because you are reasonable. I’m glad you are here. You make sense. It’s hard to be around people who aren’t reasonable and have to be right all the time and wont give up trying to control other’s minds. It’s distrurbing for us because it’s something we don’t do. You are doing well.
Catalina, you are very sweet. Your words are very uplifting for me. You have no idea. I had forgotten how absolutely cruel the people associated with this rotten cult could be and so blind and brainwashed. After all these years we are still affected. It’s just like my daughter said. “It’s like the Hotel California. You are welcome here but you are never allowed to leave.” Good day to you Catalina. You are my friend too.
Well, far be it from me to stay out of a good dust up.
PB, I know you get wound up, my friend, but Anonymous’ comment made it clear how serious of an issue this is for her. We don’t need to pry into the details of it, but whatever those details are, they surely don’t include her simply neglecting to talk to her son about his weight.
Stress, genetics, metabolism, hormones, health problems, sleep problems, etc. There can be many additional factors contributing to obesity other than diet and exercise.
Personally, I probably eat 5 times a day, even on past midnight, whether I’m hungry or not. I’d get into the psychological reasons for it, but Excelsior covered them well enough.
But the main point is, although it is true that you will lose weight if you burn more calories than you consume, that can be an impossibly difficult endeavor for many people.
Ultimately, this is one of those issues like depression itself, where, if you can’t personally relate to it, it’s best to just say a few encouraging words, and move on.
Your trademark mixed-case diatribes are better suited for less sensitive topics, my friend, and better aimed at Org trolls and the like.
PB, I have read on other exjw forums about many people in the congregations needing to be heavily medicated w/ anti-anxiety, anti-depressant and anti-psychotic medications in order to function. Many of these medications cause tremendous weight gain.
I personally gained 40 pounds in 6 months on an antidepressant w/o increasing food intake and doubling my exercise. I then had to take benazepril HCL (40mg) for high blood pressure. I quit taking all medications and promptly lost the weight.
I once had to take a steroid drug for an autoimmune disease. I quit as soon as I started gaining weight. I know people on this drug who look like balloons.
There can be many reasons for weight gain. Perhaps most of the obesity it is due to overeating but please don’t be so judgmental. You have no idea what personal hell some of these people go through. Not everyone is as strong as you. I do not believe all weight issues can be handled as easily as you handled yours. By the way, congratulations on your healthy weight lose and lifestyle change.
@Shanti .. ASK ANY PROPER DOCTOR & THEY WILL TELL YOU 98 % of the OBESE or OVERWEIGHT PEOPLE in the WORLD is DUE to EATING TOO MANY CALORIES or the WRONG TYPE of FOOD & NOT DOING ENOUGH EXERCISE !!
THERE WILL ALWAYS be AN ODD EXCEPTION !
FATNESS ONLY ADDS TO THE DEPRESSION !!
@PB Reezner . WELL THIS IS WHERE WE DISAGREE BIG TIME !! FATNESS KILLS & SO DOES SMOKING & SO DOES ALCOHOL ABUSE !
YOU & MANY OTHERS are VITRIOLIC & OUTSPOKEN to 7 MEN in BROOKLYN WHO ARE. KILLING PEOPLE with their POLICIES !! So LETS BE FAIR & BE AS OUTSPOKEN to WHAT FAT PEOPLE are DOING to THEMSELVES !!!
@JB Reezner … Apologies in my Last POST I addressed you as PB … I HAD JUST EATEN a BIG MAC & I THINK the FAT CELLS Had CLOUDED MY BRAIN!!
Great article. Great site. Super conversation.
I remember as a 16-year-old in the 60s being nervous about buying some jeans described as “hipsters”. How weird. So perhaps it’s a theme associated with sexual repression that emerges from time to time more or less strongly. And in this craze ludicrously risible. And entertaining.
There’s no point in trying to find logic in a cult’s rulings-they’re only there to condition obedience-but what is more masculine than a beard? And Caleb’s father’s tight pants – will the boy need to “counsel” his very own father, and will the timeline of emerging new light be revealed through the Caleb archives, when later episodes are re-drawn with baggy pants and loose shirts?
PB-I agree with JB Reezner-normally your energised partial capitalisation is funny and to the point, and appropriately targeted. Your movement to TOTAL CAPITALISATION prompts a kindly response, in a quiet friendly voice, “are you okay?”.
Most people recognise that the issue of obesity is complicated. It’s extremely hard to buy foods that don’t have sugar added, and sugar is very cheap-and now we learn that fats are not the health danger we once thought. So the authoritative advice from the scientific community is confusing.
In this interesting lecture by Dr Doug McGuff from 1.12.20 he starts to talk about nutrition, and at 1.14.10 he explains that modern diets can produce the experience of “internal starvation” where the body is craving more food due to a corrupted metabolism.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2PdJFbjWHEU
There are pathways out of obesity, but that’s an individual’s decision – and journey, surely?
SwimmingWild
PB, I don’t think anyone is disagreeing w/ you about overeating being the main reason for obesity. I for one am trying to convey that there are a myriad of reasons for overeating. If overcoming such painful personal tribulations was that easy for everyone, no one would still be in the JW’s!!!
I had hoped you would realize you are being smug, rude, insensitive, disrespectful and as judgmental and self-righteous as a JW, haha! I do think you owe anonymous an apology. This side of you is not pretty.
I don’t crawl out of my hole very often to contribute here.
I never feel comfortable when I do. I’m crawling back into my hole now and hope not to comment again unless you start talking about people in wheelchairs should be able to get up and walk if they really wanted to.
What a disappointing thing to wake up to, PB. Your comically frenetic tirades can be entertaining, but I wouldn’t have guessed that they could so easily be aimed back at those around you who like you and care about you. Even more surprising is your use of ridicule in your response to our respectful attempts to reason with you on this matter.
Anyway, to stay on the subject of alternate reasons for obesity would just sound like whining, so I won’t do that. Really, those of us who have had trouble with this issue would not have even brought the subject up without seeing a need to shed a some light on it. That need was created by your oversimplification of the problem.
So let me steer this toward what my main concern has been from the beginning. Anonymous is one of the most thoughtful commenters among us. Sometimes, when I’ve gone back to see what people have talked about on posts that are a few days old, I see that she has continued to diligently respond to people making comments. Whether their comments are friendly or critical, Anonymous’ replies are generous and well-reasoned, and they show that she cares about people and the important issues that come up on this site.
In your comment to her, you implied to this clearly loving mother that she is failing to do something important for her son, and if that failure continues, the result will be that “HE WILL EITHER BE DEAD or Have SEVERE HEALTH PROBLEMS !!”
But carelessly throwing the subject of the life of her child in her face, as if the real problem is that she has simply never considered the dangers of being overweight, is astonishingly careless and cold. Your approach and your conclusion were both wrong.
It’s the kind of thing that could have hit her so hard that she’s now faced with the question of whether or not she even wants to come back to us.
I’m not the kind to demand apologies, but I would hope that you see a need to apologize to her for at least the manner in which you addressed this extremely serious issue to her.
If we end up losing her thoughtful and sincere voice, it will truly be a substantial loss. I hope you can do something to prevent that, PB.
Please stop all of this. I need my family on here. Lets please agree to disagree and move our energy back to where it is needed….. helping others to break free from the Borg and have a family to turn to once out. I have a confession to make because I feel bad. Our secretary texted me today for my time… Haven’t done anything in over 3 months. I lied… I texted him back and said one hour. Well I was talking about the WT….. just not in a very nice way.
Tara, I’m proud of you for your 1 hour. They want you to talk to people about what the Org has to offer, and you have been doing a lot of that. I say kick it up to a few hours next time. Also, throw some mags in the garbage bin, and you will be able to count some placements too!
Come back, Anonymous. PB is simply a crazy person.
PB, you’re simply a crazy person. And you, my friend, have to accept what I’m telling you because “a TRUE FRIEND Will Say The TRUTH About a SITUATION Even If it Might Hurt in the Short Term”!
You can’t argue with YOUR OWN WORDS!!!!
I am appalled by this micromanagement by the GB as stated in the latest edict, which was brilliantly brought to our attention by JWSurvey’s confidential contacts. In my opinion, the GB are delusional and breaking two key ‘theocratic’ rules:
(1)beating the flock; (2)going above what is written.
It’s similar to how Judaism evolved from the 600 Mosaic laws into the millions of interpretations of the Talmud. And how Islam evolved, from the general simplicity of the Quran to the multi-volume Hadith.
I am of the opinion, the latest ‘what you can wear’ Pharisaical interpretation by the GB, is a shot in the foot and will help some JWs wake up to TTATT.
@JWChange – Good points – their behavior hardly seems “discreet.”
The talmud is not a set of rules, it is a continuation of the the conversation of the nature of who the jews are in relation to their god and the rest of the world. Only the most conservative jews think of the talmud and even the bible the way jw’s and the rest of enlightenment era conservative christianity think of their own rules and regulations, which includes the various “literal” interpretations of the bible.
Lloyd, your points “the smartest thing for the Governing Body to do in the wake of Tony’s ludicrous performance would have been to eject him from their inner circle” and “they have shown that…they are easily manipulated by a strong personality” are well made.
The fact of the matter is that this organization has always looked for a strong personality to rally around. It is often indicative of a destructive cult that there is a charismatic leader driving the extreme culture. It has been the case through most of the organization’s history. Russell, Rutherford, Knorr, Franz – All men who became a focal point in the organization and this led some of the most outrageous teachings and practices. After Fred Franz’s death it seemed that there may not have been as strong a central figure in place, hence we saw some relaxation of some of the stricter policies in the 1990’s. Is perhaps Tight-Pants Tony going to emerge as the next central figure in the cult? It will be interesting to see where this leads them…
Hey, not good times ahead for Serena… check this out:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/549017010796270310/
Too tigth, sister!
In harmony with the Org’s latest adjustment in priorities, the next publication to be covered at the Congregation Bible Study has been announced: http://imgur.com/Thv43AH
Always had my hair long and my trousers tailored, was confronted a few times by management to conform or face the consequences, when I retorted that Jesus had a beard and long hair I was told that his appearance was acceptable by the common folk of his time, well guess what tony Morris the third (wtf?) tattoos, long hair, beards and body piercing are accepted in business and most social settings these days, pinky rings and rolexes send the wrong message so I suggest you address your attire and conform.
Talk about tight pants, Wait until JW learn that the Watchtower has 2 billion in Wall Street much in Defense Company’s, Alcohol, Tabaco and Media. Every Jw will download in their pants making them very tight. They have to dissfollowship them all.
Too see the IRS form of Watchtowers holding in said company’s Click on http://nccsweb.urban.org/communityplatform/nccs/organization/profile/id/386043103 then forms 990 and see from 2003 (when the U.S. and Britain went to war) – 2014. They have bloon on their hands and stool in their pants.
Cults and totalitarian regimes, are in fear of individualism,
critical thinkers who might challenge their authority.
Even in the matter of dress, an independent person with
their own special tastes is seen as a threat, someone who
who will encourage others to think independently. it can’t
be tolerated.
In this case, an imaginary enemy is conjured up. —
Homosexuals, who are apparently out to conscript us,
and who’s mode of dress is designed to entice us and
lead us to eternal damnation.
It’s the “Reds under the Bed ” syndrome, paranoia. Dictators
often invent enemies in order to legitimise purges.
Even independent bible reading is conceived as a threat.
You can’t understand it they say without ” Gods org,” so
reading it alone or in groups not authorised by us, is futile.
Over 7 billion people on earth, but the Bible belongs to just 7.
Total fantasists.
So women can’t even choose what sort of hair they can have? This is like North Korea, where they have a chart of acceptable hairstyles all people must choose from. What about women who’ve had cancer and have gone bald or have that fuzzy fluff or are growing their hair back after cancer?
What about brothers who grow moobs for whatever reason?
You know what this is a slippery slope to: deciding what JWs can and can’t wear outside of the hall too (more even than now) and soon women won’t be able to wear pants anywhere and men who like pink and purple will be be castigated. This is where old fusty jws can force culturally-constructed gender stereotypes on the R n F (even moreso). Well done, Taliban.
WT are communists.
First, we are subjected to the bizarre homophobic ramblings of anointed Governing Body member Anthony Morris III. Now, the majority of the Governing Body seems to have moved over to the dark side with A.M. III on this subject. The sad fact is that Jehovah’s Witnesses are taught to believe whatever their anointed Governing Body members say, no matter how asinine.
A big problem faced by the Governing Body is that the entire doctrine concerning the 144 thousand anointed has become strained, particularly now that their numbers are increasing every year. In order to address this issue, the January 2016 Watchtower (Study Edition) has this article: “We Want to Go With You.” — What should we remember about the 144,000? The problem is that this article raises far more questions than it answers. The most obvious problems include:
“Modestly, anointed ones acknowledge that they do not necessarily have more holy spirit than those with an earthly hope. They do not claim to have special knowledge or revelations; neither do they try to prove that they are in some way superior.” (Yet the anointed Governing Body members continually subject their cult followers to “new light” rules and regulations which must be obeyed — or else!
“Because even if someone has received the heavenly calling, that person has received only an invitation, not a final confirmation of the reward. That is why Satan raises up false prophets . . . to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones.” (More and more witnesses are beginning to wonder if false prophets have infested the Governing Body.) And with good reason. The article also warns: “Others may have mental or emotional problems that lead them to believe that they will rule with Christ in heaven.” (The article raises the distinct possibility that the Governing Body could include false prophets and those with mental or emotional problems.)
“Jehovah’s spirit bore witness to them personally. No announcement was made to the world.” (Watchtower literature constantly reminds its readers that the Governing Body members are of the anointed class. This article is no exception.) But don’t annoy their spouses with embarrassing questions like this: “We should also resist the urge to quiz spouses of anointed ones about how they feel knowing that they will live without their mate in the future earthly Paradise.” (I would like to hear how some of the wives of Governing Body members would answer this question.)
“In addition, anointed Christians do not view themselves as being part of an elite club. They do not seek out others who claim to have the same calling, hoping to bond with them or endeavoring to form private groups for Bible study.” (Apparently, the Governing Body didn’t violate this rule when they declared themselves to be exclusive members of the faithful slave club.)
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-january-2016/we-want-to-go-with-you/
@ ScotWM. I just read most of the 1/15/15 article
in the wt. Talk about nonsense and a lot to say about nothing? When I read verbiage like that I wonder what the purpose of the article is> It is like they are trying to keep everyone thinking the same way and dictate exactly what to say, feel, think and act. Another thing is for sure although they say do not treat “ANNOINTED ” ones like celebrities the R&F are trained to do that bc the GB give themselves the special status and special authority. I know when my spouse goes to the annual meeting ot has a GB over my house they act like Jesus Christ himself is in town. It is ridiculous. That article was so VERY SHALLOW. Even for long time JW’s it is just nonsense.
Holy Connoli says: “Talk about nonsense and a lot to say about nothing?”
A few years after Fred Franz’ 1975 prophesy failed, the Governing Body was forced to come up with new light that would allow later day contemporaries (an overlapping generation) to claim anointed status. The fact remained that those claiming to be of the anointed have absolutely no way to prove that they have a heavenly calling.
Being told that “they just know” is not an adequate explanation, but that is the only explanation offered. However, the Watchtower doctrine of the 144 thousand anointed ones who will rule with Christ in heaven must be accepted by all Jehovah’s Witnesses, unless they want to be disfellowshipped for apostasy.
So, once again, the Governing Body presents a Watchtower study article, discussing the anointed 144,000, which is totally devoid of any substance. Yet, this study article will be read to all congregations and audience members will parrot back the nonsensical information from the paragraphs and accept it as truth.
@Swimming Wild .FAT PEOPLE are KILLING THEMSELVES . PERIOD ! You say it’s HARD To FIND FOODS WITHOUT SUGAR??
Well TOMATOES,LETTUCE,CELERY,BEETROOT ,BROCCOLI ,WHOLEMEAL RICE,,WHOLEMEAL BREAD,SARDINES,LENTILS,COD,HADDOCK ,TUNA,GRILLED CHICKEN BREAST,CAULIFLOWER ,RADISHES,KIDNEY BEANS,LEAN BEEF ETC,ETC
I could NAME a 100 other FOODS !
@Swimming Wild: Yup, my partner makes a lot of Cakes with Sweet ‘n Low. Avoid Tropical fruits and believe it or not, White Flour and Sugar levels can be controlled. I am type 2 Diabetic, but inject Insulin, twice daily and Lixisenitide.
Trouble is though Pickled… Insulin does make you put weight on, so Portion Control is often the greater challenge.
Wish the WT Society would use its Printing capacity to explore practical help for people like me. Especially to look at the presence of ALLOXAN in white flour in the UK and the USA especially, so that we can have fluffy white cakes to tantalise us, and look to at the preserving agents to preserve White rice. Could expose the biggest cover up since Thalidamide!…
Back to topic… maybe an expose on the medical affect of tight pants on the human crotch would at least show Tight Pants Tony was worried about human welfare!
@ScottWm- very informative post thanks a lot! And kudos to those who can still stomach reading the WT… I can’t bring myself to anymore! It stirs up to much that I’m trying to contain.
Reflection: Reading this quote”they have received an invitation, not a final confirmation of the reward”, I wonder if they are paving the way for an inevitable new light to explain the growing number of anointed? They could say.. a lot of people are ‘invited’ (hence the number can be greater than 144,000) but only 144,000 have their ‘reward confirmed’ in the end!! Oh man… I would not be surprised at all.
I mean… after having seen an overlapping generation, nothing surprises me anymore!
Enoughisenough says: “Reflection: Reading this quote ”they have received an invitation, not a final confirmation of the reward…”
The January 15, 2015 Watchtower (Study Edition) has the article, “Why We Observe the Lord’s Evening Meal.” Two interesting topics are raised: “Who Should Partake?” and “Responding To Your Scriptural Hope.” Unfortunately, these two topics are not adequately addressed by observations such as these:
“Individuals entitled to partake of the Memorial emblems know that they have been taken into the Kingdom covenant.”
“Only those who have the witness of the spirit that they are God’s children should partake of the Memorial emblems.”
“Those who have received “a spirit of adoption as sons” are God’s spirit-begotten children. His spirit bears witness with their spirit, giving them the realization that they are Jehovah’s anointed sons.”
As far as the “invitation” statement is concerned, I searched the entire article for this key word and it isn’t there. The article also contains a lot of unrelated scriptures. However, 1 Corinthians 11:27-34 actually seemed to be on topic. So, I searched the entire chapter for “invitation” and again came up with nothing.
It looks like the Governing Body pulled the entire invitation idea out of their …. hats. The fact that the invitation statement has no scriptural backing is a good sign that the Governing Body will soon be using it to explain the growing number of memorial partakers.
I thought the “overlapping generations’ doctrine was ridiculous. The “heavenly calling invitation” teaching may prove to be equally unbelievable. Perhaps the invitation will be likened to a lottery ticket, where there will be a few winners and lots of losers.
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20150115/why-observe-lords-evening-meal/
Hi scotwm we need a new thread on this one I read the article after you posted about it I have given up reading the drivel now, but iv’e got a theory on it Apart from tight pants nonsense any thoughts on how they are going to keep the punters in for the next 20 years? they are already fantasizing about paradise (endless q uick builds and studies). How about telling the majority they are all anointed now and all royalty if they pay enough.The evangelical and born again christians will have a field day. How to keep the rank and file distracted for a few years and then change their mind again. I can see that panning out can’t you? ruthlee,
ruthlee says: “How about telling the majority they are all anointed now and all royalty if they pay enough.”
You may be on to something. Will the Governing Body finally reduce its adherents to only a faithful few hundred, who will do whatever they demand? Would these faithful few have paid enough for their anointing once they begin to openly worship the Governing Body members?
The Governing Body has already said, “We need to obey the faithful and discreet slave to have Jehovah’s approval.” — Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.24 Simplified English Edition.
And the Governing Body has already made this endgame proclamation: “At that time, the lifesaving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. — Watchtower, Nov. 2013 (study edition) p. 20 par. 17.
Could it be that Warwick will turn into another Jonestown?
A ScotWM. I meant to say I just read the 1/15/16 WT . Sorry I am a year behind! lol
Actually, I didn’t notice the incorrect date until you mentioned it here.
Your earlier observation about the Governing Body being treated like royalty reminded me of the special treatment that circuit overseers received when they visited my congregation.
I have never met any Governing Body members, but I’m sure they attract a lot more groupies than lowly circuit overseers.
PB I really don’t get why you’ve morphed into delivering this tirade which you must know is being taken personally by many individuals here – and despite the number of people asking you to tone it down – do you have a problem keeping your weight down or are you close to someone who is overweight, and is it distressing you? Your engagement with this topic is unusually vociferous for you (now nearly 100% capitalisation). Can we have the good ol’ entertaining PB back?
@GEM – On the topic – and re tight pants and health – we know about overheating reducing the count – but aren’t tight pants a bit like elastic tights used to reduce thrombosis in the legs on long flights – perhaps tight pants, like Caleb’s dad’s, will help him survive sitting still through long boring meetings. In fact perhaps as Caleb is supposed to sit still, he could get cardio vascular health benefits from tight pants, or better still “spanxs”, worn at meetings.
SwimmingWild
I can’t help but recall my experience during my first week at Brooklyn Bethel. My table head, a senior member of the Service Department remarked to me that “there are a lot of guys here in Bethel that are light on their feet.”
Most of these types had the so-called “white collar” jobs in the office, Service Department of writing staff.
I can’t help but recall my experience during my first week at Brooklyn Bethel. My table head, a senior member of the Service Department remarked to me that “there are a lot of guys here in Bethel that are light on their feet.”
Most of these types had the so-called “white collar” jobs in the office, Service Department of writing staff.
OH B***dy H**l whats all this diatribe on fat people. Who actually cares if they are top of the food chain. Let’s just distribute lovely kaftans so we/they can float around being lovely.If all the depressed jw’s had not been lied to they there would not be such a prob in org with older folks, It’s called comfort eating because most jws know there is no happy ending no paradise no reward so they eat themselves into an early grave. When you are poor you starve or overeat depending on your geography. Maybe the watchtower should do it’s job properly and start distributing bread and wine. Then we will see some miracles! I’m off to the kh and going to do a mental calculation of the calories the collective had for breakfast as i don’t think there is any other way to keep my brain in gear seeya ruthless/ruthlee
Alright everyone hitting RESET on this one. Don’t let the GB’s conquer and divide tactics work on here. We all see the weight topic from different angles. As Obi Wan Kanobi would say only the Sith(GB) speak in absolutes. I noticed a comment above that compared a lot of these restrictions to the Talibans methods of hijacking a faith. Lets focus on the evil we and our loved ones are facing in the Watchtower. Im off to meeting.
I started the whole diatribe about obesity…
…sorry….
Look…there is a happy ending…
All the fat people get eaten first when the Zombie Apocalypse starts. (see Zombieland
…first 10 minutes for reference)
Don’t get your hopes up, Garrett. I never miss Walking Dead, so I will be the first one bustin’ caps in zombie heads when it all goes down. And Zombiegeddon will surely be coming any day now…
Oooooh i doo with my goth boots ahahaha(evil Smile) rl
Hahah! And the disintegration continues.
There have been some well authenticated instances in which
women have been transformed into men, and it is possible
that this transformation may become general and we shall
all be brothers together.
Oh! Why did I ever doubt the truth, the Judges words are
coming true right before my eyes, Women are morphing
into Men, wearing trousers and short back and side haircuts.
My wife and I are going back to the Kingdom Hall this very
afternoon, to proclaim our repentance and beg forgiveness
I think I’ve got a spare suit she can borrow.
It’s interesting that these new dress and grooming rules were only announced to the elders. The Borg knows they’ll lose a ton of members if it was announced publicly. They chose to try and discreetly have the elders police the Cong. The r&f will never know that they can be banned from preaching unless they found out from this website or the like!
That is why it is OUR responsibility to make this public to the Borg! :) Email and Facebook away!
Wow that’s some conversation regarding weight!
Who do you owe an explanation to, not for me to say, but I do understand that it’s more than rare for a JW to be disfellowshipped for obesity.
I suppose, regarding the article, that most companies have a dress code, seems the JW’s code is occasionally dictated by sexuality. Do you need any more evidence that individuality is crushed within the JW community even if your not on duty. . . .thats the point.
I was a JW child in the 50s. And trust me, TIGHT PANTS became a huge fashion along with no turnups (except on jeans) and ‘winklepicker’ shoes. We all wore them to meetings with no comments from the ‘servants’…maybe because they were all outside having a fag in the smoking break we had between the Pubic Talk and the Watchtower! Hypocrisy has always been rampant. In the late 60’s the fashion world added the ‘Maxi-skirt’ to the mini-skirt as ultra fashion. My mother and sisters and girlfriend all rejoiced. They could be fashionable yet ‘modest’!!! Banned by the elders. We should all just look like frumpy, dowdy old-fashioned, boring self-righteous busybodies. Just like the Governing body and their wives!
So well said, as usual, Lloyd. To achieve the best of our human nature, we must seek to incorporate both positive feminine traits and positive male traits into our personalities and behaviors. This is true androgyny, which has more to do with practice than it does with appearance. And it’s nothing to be afraid of.
So let me get this straight (no pun intended :) ) and please correct me if I am wrong:
Wearing tights pants and yes, even tight “jackets” – BAD
Hiding pedophiles from the public to save “Jehovah’s good name” – GOOD
—————————
Wearing multi-colored socks for bothers and having short hair on sisters – BAD
Shaving all facial hair (except pedophile mustaches) for men – GOOD
—————————-
Shall I continue?
Watching rated “R” movies as an adult – BAD
Talking about masturbation, petting, anal and oral sex and other sexual activities in a public talk while children present – GOOD
——————————
Going to college, improving your education, accepting a promotion at work – BAD
Encouraging your members to sell their houses, cars and valuables because the end is coming so they can go preaching and live like vagrants off the goodwill of others – GOOD
————
Sounds reasonable. Where can I sign up for these words of wisdom directed by “God”?
I was talking to a friend of mine the other day… actually a 7th day…. and he said we should – including him, join the catholic faith. We can screw up all week and then go and say sorry and start with a clean slate.
@Erin Horn
Would you mind clarifying the site you mentioned please?
Eg. The 990 form for 2014 (2013 Tax Year), at the end there are a load of assets. Does that mean that the WTS have invested money in all those stocks & shares? If so they have shares in PepsiCo – owned by the Mormons I believe. Also in Apple (hence all the Apple gear they use. Maybe I should ask them to sell me a new iPad Pro at their discount rates!)
As I understand it, and please correct me if I’m wrong, investing money (especially large amounts as the WTS has apparently done according to this report) in stocks & shares is basically a bit like the lottery: you can make a fortune but you can also lose a shed load too?
Another reason I don’t give them anything anymore since coming across this site. I’ve a good mind to write to them and demand I be given my shares in Apple that they used my money given to advance Kingdom Interests!!!
On the other hand…
Having survived HIV/AIDS, Anita Bryant, Reagan/Thatcher, 3 Bush Administrations, Don’t-Ask-Don’t-Tell, horrible hair-styles of the 90’s, and several waves of anti-gay Propositions, a secret missive from HQ is simply another bullet-point added to my agenda.
Let’s review the scriptural basis for these banned-from-serving–and, here is where it really gets heated up. There are scholars on both, or all, sides of this discussion which occurs not only with JW’s but in ALL Judeo-Christian-Islamic religions who have a translation of the terms used in Leviticus and Corinthians to condemn “swishy males” and “masculine women”. And, here is where losing one’s religion becomes required because it rips the covers off the “magic” behind the Bible and the evolution of dogma. One side states these passages from Paul are not condemning what modern society views as homosexuality but what was practiced in ancient Roman Empire where a rich and powerful man (usually married, too) would use his wealth or position of power to compel or acquire sexual services from young men or impoverished men offering themselves as prostitutes. My first time reviewing these suppositions was a book written by John Boswell, “Christiantiy, Social Tolerance and Homosexuality” (written circa 1980). These arguments were expanded and supported over the years, and Matthew Vines (USA) has been a key spokesperson offering the same evidence that the terms used in 1 Corinthians 6 for “effeminate” referred to Roman citizens considering a man lacking manly affectations–a warrior, a leader, merchant, farmer, or a laborer, but being rich, a life of ease, given to expensive garments, and “party animal” rather than a responsible citizen.
The argument also adds that the “homosexual offenders” (note, wouldn’t ‘homosexual’ have been enough, why the redundancy?) translated here in chapter 6 is reference to men in positions of power (by authority granted or wealth) who used men (and it isn’t refuted that Paul was using masculine here as a universal/gender-neutral term to include women) for their sexual pleasures, or abused men for selfish purposes. So, in this context, the argument would be that a man of authority–say, an elder, MS, CO, or GB member–is condemned by Paul’s words if they used their position to intimidate, coerce or molest young men (and women).
References:
http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/no_fems_no_fairies.html
http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/gay_couple.html
http://blogs.christianpost.com/confident-christian/does-paul-condemn-homosexuality-in-1-corinthians-and-1-timothy-12362/
https://www.youtube.com/user/VinesMatthew
Who controls the trust? The HENRIETTA M RILEY TRUST provides to watchtower moneys (yield) from this stock portfolio that has 100 of millions in defense, Boing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, and many others.
In other words Watchtower takes blood money that you would be dissfollowship for just for sweeping the floor. Hypocrites who exploit dupes for there labor while profiting from blood money. If the brothers and sister back at bethel had know of this they would not have given up their lives for no pay so Watchtowers could playing in the Stock Market.
They also own Media shares which may have protected them all this while. There are many questions to conceder. Is this person dead? If they are, when? When was the trust been started? When was the trust started and have they added to it and when?
The answer to your questions is that perhaps it was always dead because the true history of this cult is one of deception. We know who the master of deception is don’t we? Hypocrites right to to the core. From Russell through to now it’s been lies and manipulation. We were attracted like moths to a flame but caught with a net like a spider traps it’s prey in its’ web.
And did they borrow against the 2 BILLION in any way shape or form
So…. this whole wearing tight clothes thing… does this overlap (smiles to herself at being clever with words) with our day to day life? I mean if we are caught in public wearing skinny jeans, yoga pants, leggings etc etc and that’s just the brothers…. are we likely to be spoken to by the ‘What Not to Wear’ clothes police?
If this was a loving group of human beings they would take some of that stock hopefully out of defense stock and see to it that the bethel folks could get a new start. This work labored under false pretense (that this was an ethical organization) and under dress ( false prophecy, i.e. fear) and undue influences (dissfollowshiping) and for no pay (labor law). Can anyone say FRAUD and CORRUPTION i.e R.I.C.O. CHARGES.
Pickled Brain….you gotta explain one thing to me that has really haunted. Namely…the capitol letters thing….
see…usually when things are in capitol it means that someone is yelling….yet….in context it doesn’t fit…unless someone has Tourettes syndrome…..
Just curious…….I HAVE to ask…
G
You called me a lady! Aw bless ya cotton socks.
What the bloody hell are ‘gender blurring characteristics’, can some one explain?
Don’t tell me you’ve just given license for the local Elders to determine it for themselves. (Shaking my head in my hand)
Gender blurring characteristics, would that be like a man who is compassionate, thoughtful, gentle?, would a gentleman also considered to be ‘gender blurring’, or is that permissible?
Governing body :-) , shame, aren’t you the ‘bride’ of Christ, are you not apart of the ‘woman’ in Reverlation 12, do you not feel the same as the maiden towards your master, so beautifully written, in the Song of Solomon,
did not David love Johnathan more than women?
Now it’s not my problem that Toni (oops) Morris has a fixation with tight pants is it?
Let’s say, for instance, a brother is effeminate due to the abuse he’s suffered or seen are you willing to crush him further?
Now regarding tight pants:-) doesn’t nature itself teach that animals preen and dance before mating.
Why are you so judgemental of people, does it make you feel better about yourself, that you have something to believe in?
As regards Toni Morris did not the Vietnam war make him realise that he was a gentle soul and needed the Christian message, is it all about power now?
New light: Gaydar is one of the fruits of the spirit!
Nothing you can see that isn’t shown. All you need is love.
John Lennon was gunned down….
…in New York….
…wearing tight pants….
….any questions Jake?
You mean, all I had to do was call you CRAZY to get you to ease up a little?? Okay, next time I will START WITH THAT, lol! Good man, PB.
Interestingly, Garrett admitted to starting the obesity thing. NOW he’s trying to offend the sufferers of Tourette Syndrome. I’m starting to think we may all just be pawns in Garrett’s evil little game. Leave us alone, Garrett! You sick sonnova…
PB called me a lady…. should I be offended? I’ll go look it up in the Bible according to T3. I am sure he will have a principal for me to consider regarding gender.
JB
Not evil. Just honest.