When I was a very young boy, my grandfather died. I don’t know much about his life, aside from the fact that he was a carpenter, a policeman, and a Catholic. He was, in fact, Irish Catholic, and I suspect my father’s family took great pride in their heritage and their faith. It was a disappointment for them that during the pre-1975 years, my father became one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
The invasive control that the Jehovah’s Witness organization had over my parents divided our family. At my grandfather’s funeral, all hope of normality was smashed when my father refused to sit with his brothers, instead electing to place himself at the back of the church, with easy access to the nearest exit.
Why would he do this? His decision was decidedly influenced by the March 15 1970 Questions From Readers, which posed the question
“May dedicated Christians attend church funerals of other religious organizations?”
The phrasing of that question in itself diminishes the thinking ability of the reader and transfers control of one’s life to the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. The article casts aside the faith of the individual, suggesting that attending a church service places a Jehovah’s Witness in serious danger of violating his Christian conscience.
“Thus there is no need for a Christian to feel obligated to go to a church funeral of another religious organization, where there may be the temptation to give in to pressure and follow the crowd when everyone else is performing some false religious act. Thus also the danger of performing an act of apostasy and displeasing Jehovah God can be avoided.”
Only recently did I come to understand the permanent damage that this caused. For the balance of my childhood and to this day, I never got to know my uncles, my aunt, my cousins, or anyone else in the family. In a sad twist on the words attributed to Jesus below, my extended family became strangers who purportedly worshiped God incorrectly, or so I was led to believe.
“Do you think I came to give peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division” – Luke 12:51
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses makes no apology for splitting apart families; in fact they summon Jesus’ words to reinforce their divisive policies. Luke chapter 12 continues:
“For from now on there will be five in one house divided, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law”
Undoubtedly, self-imposed estrangement is not the intended meaning behind these expressions, but for the Jehovah’s Witness religion, they mean just one thing:
Blood is not thicker than Watchtower
It has been nearly 40 years since my family was fractured by the policies of this organization. Instead of a softening of rules and regulations, the Governing Body has elected to double down their doctrinal directives, expanding their influence using the power of suggestion and crowd manipulation to achieve control of their flock.
An example of this control is found in the Watchtower of February 2016, study edition. The article “Prove Yourself Loyal to Jehovah” drives readers to the conclusion that loyalty to the suggestions of the Governing Body is equal to loyalty to God.
We encounter Olga, a Jehovah’s Witness wife and mother who has suffered at the hands of her non-JW husband, a man who “abused her emotionally, insulted her, refused to speak to her, and threatened to take the children and leave her.” The Watchtower paints a picture of the stereotypical “worldly” man, a person without redeeming qualities and without Jehovah.
Sadly, his father dies, and Olga agrees to travel with him to another city for the funeral, showing respect for him despite his non-affiliation with Watchtower. But did she truly show this man respect? The article says:
“She waited for her husband at the church door until the ceremony
ended.”
Without even addressing the subject of attending a church funeral, the Watchtower suggests that a truly faithful Witness of Jehovah would never step foot inside a church. While this statement is not the subject of the article, the powerful suggestion is nonetheless implanted into the reader’s mind, setting a precedent that must be followed.
Just a few paragraphs later, we are reminded of some of the simple pleasures in life that must be abandoned if a person is to be loyal to Jehovah.
“Loyalty to God helped an Australian sister named Alice to decide how much importance to give to other loyalties. When she began studying the Bible, she would tell her family about the good
things she was learning. Later, Alice told members of her family that she would not be celebrating Christmas with them”
The result?
“My mother finally said that she disowned me. I was shocked and deeply hurt because I really loved my family.”
This heartbreaking story touches me personally. The endless years of alienation from my family and any sense of celebration and happiness were replaced with piles of Watchtower magazines and books that filled my shelves, but left me empty and depleted.
It is difficult for Jehovah’s Witness children to really understand what is happening to them during the formative years of their life. One by one, normal relationships and activities are eliminated, and Witness children are advised that they must be “no part of the world.”
Another way this happens is by abstaining from school activities, including healthy and stimulating sports and clubs. The Watchtower hammers down this point by stating:
“If we are not careful, loyalty to a nation, a school, or a sports team can eventually choke out loyalty to God. For example, Henry enjoys playing chess. His school had a tradition of winning the
championship, and he wanted to put forth his best effort. But he admitted: ‘Gradually, loyalty to the school began to take priority over my loyalty to God. Weekend chess matches were crowding
out my Kingdom service. So I decided to give up being part of the chess team.'”
For most of us who have lived the life of a Witness child, we understand what this means: no extra-curricular activities, no after school sports, nothing that might steer us away from field service and regular attendance at the Kingdom Hall.
Snitching and shunning
Along with behavior modification, Jehovah’s Witnesses engage in one of the most cruel practices in modern society: shunning. The February 2016 Watchtower advances from suggestive behavior control and graduates to full-fledged punishment of anyone who violates the social customs of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Members are encouraged to spy on one another, and if the guilty party refuses to confess, the elders must be notified.
“Kindness can help you to deal with a conflict of loyalties. For example, you may have definite knowledge that a certain fellow believer is guilty of serious misconduct. You may feel loyal to him,
especially if he is a close friend or a relative. But if you were to cover up the wrongdoing, you would be disloyal to God. Of course, your loyalty to Jehovah should come first. So like Nathan, be kind yet firm. Urge your friend or relative to seek the help of the elders. If he or she does not do so within a reasonable period of time, loyalty to God should move you to report the matter to the elders.”
In a series of 5 photographs, the Watchtower study article visually demonstrates the process:
- Observe the social media photo of your friend committing an infraction, such as drinking alcohol at a party where non-Witnesses are present
- Confront your friend with the photograph
- Take your tablet to the Kingdom Hall and show the photo to an elder
- Two elders take your friend into a private room and chastise and counsel her
- Your friend regains her senses and is soon participating in meetings once again
The reality is that seldom does the process occur in this manner, with step number 2 usually bypassed. But the encouragement to police each other within the congregation is very real.
Another disturbing practice is shunning, which is not limited to those who have been disfellowshipped from the JW faith. Simply leaving the organization for personal reasons results in the immediate loss of your complete network of friends. And for those who have been formally disfellowshipped from Jehovah’s Witnesses, there is a total and devastating loss.
A woman might decide that this religion she was baptized into at a very young age was not the correct decision for her. But it is too little, too late to change this decision. The Governing Body has decided that her own daughter is barred from fellowship with her. The bond is severed indefinitely, the punishment is very real.
“A conflict of loyalties may arise when a close relative is disfellowshipped. For example, a sister named Anne received a telephone call from her disfellowshipped mother. The mother wanted to visit Anne because she felt pained by her isolation from the family. Anne was deeply distressed by the plea and promised to reply by letter. Before writing, she reviewed Bible principles. (1 Cor. 5: 11; 2 John 9-11) Anne wrote and kindly reminded her mother that she had cut herself off from the family by her wrongdoing and unrepentant attitude. “The only way you can relieve your pain is by returning to Jehovah,”Anne wrote”
There is no greater bond than that between a mother and daughter, yet the Watchtower has managed to produce a doctrinal solvent capable of dissolving the closest relationship known to humans.
I know many Jehovah’s Witness mothers who have been reinstated to the organization, superficially believing they have “returned to Jehovah,” when in fact they just wanted their family back. They walk among the congregation with the permanent stigma of judicial discipline, but take comfort that they have traded public humiliation for the ability to speak and associate with their family.
The Abraham Principle
“Then Abraham reached out his hand and took the knife to kill his son” – Genesis 22:10
Inflicting harm on a son or daughter is a completely foreign concept to any human with a measure of good mental health. Yet according to Jehovah’s Witnesses, the biblical character of Abraham showed the ultimate faith in God when the Almighty required him to stab his son to death on a mountaintop.
Is this really a lesson in faith in God, or could it perhaps be a convenient method of demanding blind obedience? The Watchtower study article titled “Jehovah Called Him My Friend” suggests that anyone who doubts Abraham’s decision to knife his son is void of faith. The blame is shifted from the perpetrator (God) to the critic:
“There are those who say that God was cruel for asking such a thing of Abraham, and some imply that Abraham’s obedience was blind and unfeeling. They take that position because they have neither the faith nor the understanding of how faith works.”
I never could grasp the sense of this bible tale. Apparently my faith and understanding are just too weak. We are told that Jehovah called out to Abraham and halted the murder just in time. Why didn’t he apply this same life-saving power moments before the planes crashed, or the tsunami hit shore, or the crazed gunman slaughtered those schoolchildren? These are questions we must all ponder for ourselves.
Separation of church and sanity
Looking back on more than 40 years of loyal association with Jehovah’s Witnesses, I truly understand how damaged my family was by this destructive organization. I can finally validate my own feelings, my internal conscience which always told me that these things are insane:
- Associate only with Jehovah’s Witnesses
- Stay away from non-JW church services
- Avoid playing team sports or joining school clubs
- Spy on your friends and turn them in to the elders
- Avoid higher education
- Shun anyone who leaves the organization
- Never accept a life saving blood transfusion
- Do not celebrate anyone’s birthday (or any holidays)
- Believe that God will kill everyone but Jehovah’s Witnesses at Armageddon
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses is increasing its doctrinal control over its members, further blurring the line between religion and personal identity. They have systematically removed individual freedom of mind and conscience and replaced it with a long list of directives, leaving many Witnesses depressed, feeling inadequate, or unable to keep track of the latest “new understanding” of truth.
This is a prison from which you must escape.
If you share the same feelings, please reach out to someone for help. You can do it anonymously and without judgment. Read, watch and learn as much as you can, and separate verifiable truth from the insanity of indoctrination.
Make this the first day of the rest of your life.
You are now free.
I get the birthday and holiday thing, but they will disfellowship you just for saying you don’t believe in doctrine of theirs and they tell you it is xpressions inspired of demons if you have bad information about the organization or dare to say that the society lied about something! They believe they are living in a spiritual paradise, but let me tell you, my exhusband was a jehovah’s witness and it was no paradise. He was emotionally and mentally abusive.
As many of them are because they abuse the concept of “head of the household”, and “submissive wives”.
@BG
JWs must be free to ridicule, oppose criticize and denounce the teachings of other religions yet if someone should do the same to their teachings it is called persecution and a JW will face the consequences which you have stated if they dare to object to the religion’s teachings. You may find the following to be of interest:
***Watchtower 1963, 11/15 pg.688 par. 3; Execution of Divine Judgment upon False Religion***:
“It is not a form of religious persecution for anyone to say and to show that another religion is false. It is not religious persecution for an informed person to expose publicly a certain religion as being false, thus allowing persons to see……….To make a public exposure of false religion is certainly of more value than exposing a news report as being untrue; it is a public service instead of a religious persecution and it has to do with the eternal life and happiness of the public”.
A very well written article, thank you John. I myself was bound for 29 years and it has cost me my marriage.
I spent 12 years and leaving them (Jehovah’s Witnesses) cost me my marriage and dignity. They are now dragging me in the mad as Elders hide behind my ex-wife trying to ruin my career and CV.
• Believe that God’s kingdom was established in 1914 even though said kingdom has had no significant impact upon mankind in over 100 years.
• Child abuse can be handled internally
• Overlapping generations = generation
These are my honorable mentions of insane things that JWs believe.
“Child abuse can be handled internally”
I like the way Cedars mentions it, the Watchtower treats these crimes as a sin first, and a crime second.
That is why they will not report someone because regardless of the hours of schooling and thought put into professionals that have concluded that there is a high rate of recidivism especially for child molesters, the power of God’s word and the watchful eyes of the elders will help this person to stop committing this sin. Its sick and really egotistical of them.
“Believe that God’s kingdom was established in 1914 even though said kingdom has had no significant impact upon mankind in over 100 years”.
This was one of the first thoughts that came to my mind when I started to wake up. I began to wonder: what exactly has Jesus been doing for mankind since he began ruling in 1914? It seemed to me that he is just sitting there twiddling his thumbs, yet there are still wars, conflicts, etc. taking place on earth so what’s the point? Why have Jesus start ruling if he won’t be doing anything about these things?
If Jesus was indeed ruling since 1914, would he not share in the guilt of all the wars and atrocities that nations have been guilty of on his watch, by not exercising his authority to intervene and stop them? And how is it that only the JWs knew that Jesus began ruling in 1914? Why wouldn’t Jesus want anyone else to know about it?
It also occurred to me that if Jesus did begin ruling in 1914 then his coming at Armageddon would make 3 times that he would come yet the Bible teaches that he would come only 2 times.
Also, according to the WT, the signs marking the conclusion of the system of things (Matthew 24; Luke 12) prove that Christ is present in kingdom power.
However, according to Jesus’ own words at Luke 21:31 and Matthew 24:33, the signs marking the end of the age would signify that the kingdom of God is NEAR not actually HERE.
1914 God’s Kingdom then?
then Satan’s chain is too toooo long.
And all rulers since then are innocent [hitler!!!]
As the overlord king has permitted them.
Tell me they didn’t reference Genesis 22:10. “..because they have neither the faith nor the understanding of how faith works.” My word.
If the GB told a member to kill, would they do it on faith?
In my opinion all of the points made in this article are completely valid and mirror the experience which I had as a witness. Not being able to associate with my non witness relatives and not participating in any sports or extra curricular activities was the norm.
As a fader, I am so glad to be free from the wacky prison that is the watchtower. Unfortunately with friends and family still in the witness religion, I feel that I am always on parole, as when I am around them I still need to be careful about what I say. I guess the stigma from this religion will always be in my life but at least I am no longer shackled under the mind numbing routine that used to dictate my life.
“My mother finally said that she disowned me. I was shocked and deeply hurt because I really loved my family.”
So wait, disowning someone who chooses to follow their heart and worship in a way that seems right to them shouldn’t move family members to disown them? What a concept. Its funny how they put these thoughts right next to an article where they then justify having nothing to do with someone who has left the faith.
Yup, double standards like there’s no tomorrow.
@Bart. So true Bart and then they have the nerve to say on their videos and in JW.org that they do NOT SHUN? The video last year from the brother in Finland claimed in an interview that they do not shun and anyone can come and go in the JW religion without persecution. What a crock of lies.
JWs gladly shun family but are quick to claim persecution when their non-witness family members oppose their beliefs. Wonder who is persecuting who?
So true – my mother who is active and I am df’d speaks to me on occasion and has been reconnecting with her non Witness Sister. She asked me “Please don’t inform your aunt that you are df’d and that I am not supposed to talk to you or that I haven’t seen you in several years. I wouldn’t want to discourage her progress or it to impact how she views the organization.” To which I replied “Well if shunning is so loving why be ashamed of it.” to which she had no response. Unreal.
I’m soo sorry. Its good that she has her priorities in the right place. I will sacrifice my child on the altar of Watchtower, but I don’t want to tell your aunt cause then it will discourage her. I like how “discouraged” became the code for someone getting a realistic view of the organization.
Hi,
Dont know how accurate my information is but jehovah was one of the gods of the jewish pantheon who was primarily concerned with war. When the jewish religion became monothestic they gave the attributes of another god (EL i think )to jehovah and elevated him to the Creator of the universe. During those times human sacrifice seems to have occured to gods. That story of Abraham trying to sacrifice his son may very well be a hint to those practices.
RC, kindly direct me to the link to that info
Hi paul,
This may serve as a starting point . https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh
I’m reading a book now called “the history of the Jews” by Paul Johnson.
An interesting read that talks about Israel and its God from an archaeological point.
I think it is a good idea to read as many books etc. about the history of the Jews/Israelites and their God in order to get a better understanding of the Bible, in particular the Old Testament.
Hi Garret ,
Sure will look into the book. Thanks.
@dee
I too think it is a good idea to learn about the history of the jews to get an idea about the old testament.
RC and Paul, this is one of the most interesting videos I’ve ever seen that deals with archeology and the Bible. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/bibles-buried-secrets.html
I don’t offer it as something you should blindly accept, but it is fascinating and worthy of consideration, in my opinion.
Thanks JB ,
Interesting site . Browsing through it.
I had to read this twice already…and I will likely read it again. It resonates so much with me and my deepest feelings regarding the organization.
Thank you John, for your candour and honesty. Although the damage is done, you are spot on…we are now free.
Unfortunately, my wife and kids (8 and 11) still go. I faded and I haven’t been to a meeting in well over a year, and I have no intention of going back. My wife knows how much I detest the Watchtower, and religion in general. I try to instill independent thinking in my kids. In fact, I took them work with me the other day and I talked to them about not letting people put boundaries on them, not let anyone tell what they should or should not do with their lives (without mentioning the vile, repulsive Watchtower). My wife loves being a witness, but I do think she disagrees with certain issues (i.e. shunning of children and that dangerous suggestion on staying with an abusive spouse). I remember when I started studying and how the Org was defensive about not breaking up families and how the Family Book and various article “prove” that, but now I see clearly this religious is horrible for families. Great article!!!
@Will – Amen. I tell my two kids the same thing. I go occasionally to meetings and assembly days. But I have seen and read way to much in the past few years to truly believe in organize religion anymore.
Me too, I have an almost 7 and eight year old… My spouse is deeply entrenched and extremely conservative even by witness standards. I tell my children often, be a good person because you want too,not because someone is telling you too. My stories are long. I was in circuit work for a time. Not sure if this is appropriate, but I really could use some like minded individuals to text with… I use an app called kik, please feel free to text me. My username is lady Grantham =)
@donald duck I think going on this website and seeing other people’s point of view is encouraging (Witnesses made me hate this word, but actually appropriate here). Sometimes you feel you’re the only one, but you’re not. Hang tight. Be true to your beliefs. I’m not sure what your home situation is. Does your wife know how you feel? If she does. Don’t back down, but be kind, yet firm. If you’re “in the closet”, keep checking this site out. I stopped going to the meeting because I was sick and tired of the talks, conventions, Watchtower, the School……….. I rather stay home and watch my toenails grow than listen to another talk or sit through another Watchtower Study.
I also am trying to fade .same withy wife .she loves ” the truth” but she also knows somthing is wrong at GB level she does not like the broadcast and wont use a tablet.however she says jah will sort things out .most of my family are in so the only option ive got is fade or have a family breakup. Ive been in 50 years but started to feel somthing is wrong when the GB started to go on about going on line and making an idol out of the .ORG i found out about the child molesting cover up .my faith in the GB was shattered whe s lett said it was fslse stories and apostate driven lies. I still take wife to meetings but am finding it increasingly difficult to sit thru it. I have told her i will have to drop her of and pick up later. I am increasingly becoming more and more exasperated with the GBs unwillingness to soften thier stance on the issues mentioned .you have my sympathy . Be assured you are not alone my friend.
@John Freeman My wife is more than capable of taking herself, but I don’t stop her from going, but I NEVER ask her how the meeting was, because she will know I could care less. The Org has handled the child abuse scandal atrociously. Many lives have been destroyed by the Watchtower’s policy on abuse. If this truly was God’s org, this never would have happened and certainly not have let it go on for as long as it has gone on. God would have “sorted” things out a long time ago.
Excellent article. Another reminder of how relatively fortunate I was in that only my inadequate lunatic of a mother was a Jehovah’s Witness. My mother in practice was my grandmother. Nan looked after us children while mum simply waved Awakes and Watchtowers about and spouted all the Brooklyn issued garbage.
For her the JW outfit was a way of reassuring herself that, for all that she could nothing whatever remotely useful, she was, by virtue of being ‘In the Truth’, utterly superior to everyone around her.
Wonderful article. I’m stepping down as a elder soon. Articles like this give me more encouragement to do what I need to do.
I’m encouraged by your expression and intention Ed ! I’m sure you will find more peace for your mind and heart after doing so ! It would be honor to represent this or any org. if it would live up to true Christianity .Unfortunately “we” or our org. failed in big scale and now it’s honorable to step down for any elder or MS who has a speck of real Christan conscience asap ! May god give you strength and peace to do so !
God bless you Edward, leave behind all forms of participating in this cults ceremonies before they suck all the faith in God out of you. I was an elder for 23 years and could feel a recentment against God building up in me for the things he was making me do( or so I thought). That first meeting after you turn it in will be the greatest meeting you’ve had in years. Tell them the job was giving you stress, anxiety or flat out say its a matter of conscience. Hope your able to help some escape on your way out.
Excellent article and absolutely true to life. The sad thing is that most converts to Watchtowerism don’t realize that so much is banned or discouraged by the Governing Body. JWs don’t realize that many restrictions they face daily have absolutely no biblical support – or are due to twisted interpretations of non-applicable “cherry-picked” scripture verses that have little or no bearing on our modern day.
Joe Rutherford supposedly revered Pastor Russell and his teachings, but within a span of 20 years reversed practically everything the good “Pastor” taught. Since the 1950s, and again in the 1990s, modern Governing Bodies have deleted or replaced almost everything both Russell and Rutherford taught. And yet they all claimed that both they and their predecessors were “chosen” and “inspired” by Jehovah’s spirit.
I see a time in the not-so-distant future when much of what is taught to JWs today will be either altered or replaced as Governing Body members change. GB members all seem to have a need to leave their own mark on the Society and are willing to replace or rewrite existing teachings that were once the hallmarks and standards that JWs were known for. The Worldwide Church of God went through these very changes in the 1980s and is unrecognizable from its earlier years but still exists along with many long time members. We can already say the same when comparing modern JWs to those in the Rutherford era.
I find it interesting that unlike scientific “theories” that consistently change and move forward as new facts are discovered, JW “truths” seem to be like a roller coaster that goes up, down, around, through switchbacks, and finally off the tracks. Along the way, everyone in their seats holds on for dear life, afraid of being tossed off into the darkness – while all their friends will have to grit their teeth and stay with the train no matter how uncomfortable or endangered they (or their kids) are.
May I respectfully suggest to everyone that they not take that roller coaster ride – or to get off while they still can.
It always bothered me too about the account with Abraham, willing to slaughter his son on his “faith” in God’s resurrecting him again like what the Watchtower likes to say. There is nothing in the Bible that indicates that God would resurrect Abraham’s son. Abraham was simply willing to kill his son for on the say so of his God, Jehovah. Faith in the resurrection had nothing to do with it. It was all about loyalty to his God, Jehovah.
Are we to have such loyalty to God that we would kill another person like that on the say so of an invisible God that only we can hear?
If that is the kind of person we are, then we’d be considered nuts by any court in the land today but yet, we are to respect Abraham for having such “loyalty” to his God Jehovah? I think not. The man “son of Sam” killed people by listening to voices too. Lots of people kill other people by listening to voices that only they can hear. They are crazy.
It is so easy to say Abraham was loyal and had faith when it wasn’t he himself that was going to die. Abraham didn’t have much faith in God when he was willing to hand over his wife two times to kings (coward) to save his own skin. I don’t like Abraham much and I can’t figure out why the Jews do to this day either.
Witnesses don’t think of Jehovah as the God who asked the Israelites to sacrifice their sons and daughters in the fire (Jeremiah 7:31) because Jehovah stopped Abraham from stabbing his son to death, but yet if a daughter of a priest was caught in prostitution, she was to be burned in the fire (Lev. 21:9) or if a man bought a girl from her father as a wife to the man and after the man married her, if he accused the girl of not being a virgin when he married her and if the parents couldn’t prove she was a virgin, the men of the city were to stone the girl to death and of course ours is the only Bible that implies that Jephthah didn’t actually burn his daughter as a sacrifice to Jehovah.
If only I was still going to meetings now. There are so many things that I would confront the elders with now that I finally figured it all out.
Before, I bought into the excuse that we just don’t know all the circumstances way back then and of course the excuse “it was a different time and place”.
About ten years ago, I bought into the “keeping the congregation clean” crap and turned in a young brother that I saw smoking but at least I did tell him first and told him that if he didn’t talk to the elders about it, that I would be forced to do it.
Now I would tell the kid to run the other way and never look back. Thankfully, he won’t have anything to do with it anymore. I wished I could talk to him and tell him how sorry I am that I did that to him but at the time, I was convinced that Jehovah would not bless the congregation if it wasn’t “clean”.
How stupid I was then.
I should have put that that account of stoning a girl that couldn’t be proved to be a virgin is at Deuteronomy 22:13-21.
I agree with everything you had to say except for the fact that there is an indication in the Bible that Abraham believed that his son would be resurrected. Granted this was written hundreds of years after Abraham’s death and if you don’t believe in God then all this statement would be is the writers opinion.
Hebrews 11:17-19 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, as good as offered up Isaac, and the man that had gladly received the promises attempted to offer up [his] only-begotten [son], 18 although it had been said to him: “What will be called ‘your seed’ will be through Isaac.” 19 But he reckoned that God was able to raise him up even from the dead; and from there he did receive him also in an illustrative way.
@Albert, if Abraham thought that Isaac was going to be resurrected, then what would have been the point of killing him, if he thought that it was only a temporary death? That doesn’t make any sense.
Two points;
a] Human sacrifice is difficult to prove and ancient religious rites leave no archeological traces; the studies of Robert Graves ‘The Greek Myths’ book 1 & 2 give some practical deductions from myths which have survived, though tedious at times to study [mainly in the footnotes]. It would seem that at the time of the Mosaic law and before Human sacrifice was widespread but not not have been “hollywood” common.
b] Consider if Goliath was Nephilim, maybe the was fallen angel breeding in ancient palestine.
I think that maybe Judah ordering the burning of Tamar may have been a fear of a ‘sacred king’ threat to himself?
Leave it with you…
@Caroline
I suppose it could be argued that the test for Abraham was to see if he truly believed that God had the power to resurrect Isaac i.e. did Abraham truly believe that bringing the dead back to life was possible, test him to see if that is in fact so ?????????
My curiosity has been peeked and just for curiosness sake,I wonder what size sandal Abraham used? I keep reading the account, but can’t find that or any accounts of his doubts, hobbies, taste in music, preference in women; dark, fair, mix of both? I also read the entire Abraham account in about 25 minutes, does anyone have a copy of the other 175 years? No? Well, I guess we know all of his thoughts anyway.
Interesting that the Jeremiah 7:31 passage states:
They have built the high places of Toʹpheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that I had NOT commanded and that had NEVER even come into my heart.’
Ok I’m confused… in a good way – I think. So most of Leviticus tells us that so and so if they did this that or the other should be burned in the fire etc etc etc BUT then we read in Jerm 7 that this never came into Jehovah’s heart….. other scriptures say it is detestable to Jehovah…. can someone explain why it was ok one minute but not the next?
Tara, the whole thing is very confusing. Let’s take for instance what the King James Bible says at Ezekiel 20:25,26:
“Moreover also I gave them statutes that were not good, and ordinances, wherein they should not live; and I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am Jehovah.”
Exodus 20:20 says that they were to give their firstborn to Jehovah “Every firstborn of your sons you are to redeem. And they must not appear before me empty-handed.”
Exodus 22:29,30 says: “Your full produce and the overflow of your press you must not give hesitantly. The firstborn of your sons you are to give to me. The way you are to do with your bull and your sheep is this: Seven days it will continue with its mother. On the eighth day you are to give it to me.”
I believe the Watchtower deliberately manipulated Ezekiel in the New World Translation to make people think that the idea of having the Israelites sacrifice their firstborn in the fire to Jehovah did not come up into His mind because this is how they worded Ezekiel 20:25,26: “And I myself also let them have regulations that were not good and judicial decisions by which they could not keep living. And I would let them become defiled by their gifts when they made every child opening the womb pass through the fire, in order that I might make them desolate in order that they might know that I am Jehovah.”
The way the Society worded those scriptures, it makes it look like Jehovah “let” them do it but in the King James, it clearly says that it was Jehovah’s statutes and he did it so that they would know Jehovah.
If you look up Moses in the concordance, almost every single reference to Moses is saying that the “Law” was from Moses. Only a few scriptures imply that God gave the Law to Moses.
According to Acts 7:42, it says that God gave them (Israelites in the wilderness) over to the army of heaven” and it was not to Him that they offered victims and sacrifices for forty years but it was to Moloch.
In the 300’s A.D. when the Bible as we know it was being ironed out as from God, I don’t think those people had any idea how really confusing the whole thing is and then you add in the fact that through those 1700 years, the scriptures were hand-written and many mistakes were made.
When people read the Bible, they see what they want to see. They don’t really examine it closely to see if it makes any sense.
If we take Acts 7 literally, it indicates that the whole “law” from Moses was from angels and not the “one true God.”
Another very interesting scriptures is at John 1:17,18:
“Because the Law was given through Moses, the undeserved kindness and the truth came to be through Jesus Christ. No man has seen God at any time, the only begotten god who is in the bosom position with the Father is the one that has explained him.”
If you look at those two scriptures, it is saying that the “truth” was not through Moses and it also says that nobody saw God except for the Son and didn’t Moses claim to “see” Jehovah?
Almost all the scriptures in the Bible say “the law of Moses” and not the “Law of God” given to Moses. The Israelites were following Moses. That is who they were following and they still do today. The Watchtower insists that it was Jehovah God who gave Moses the “Law” but was it the creator God or was it angels???? Since so many of the things recorded in the “Law of Moses” are so repulsive to our way of thinking today, it would make sense that those laws were from the pagan God Moloch, doesn’t it as Stephen said at his stoning.
Don’t fall for the Atheist recruiting Tara. Look at all their comments and their purpose for visiting this site will be made clear. Don’t break free of Watchtower lies only to fall into theirs.
Galatians 1:6-9
I am amazed that you are so quickly turning away from the One who called you with Christ’s undeserved kindness to another sort of good news. 7 Not that there is another good news; but there are certain ones who are causing you trouble and wanting to distort the good news about the Christ.8 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond the good news we declared to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, I now say again, Whoever is declaring to you as good news something beyond what you accepted, let him be accursed.
Robert67,
I resent and totally deny your accusation that I am “atheist recruiting”.
How dare you accuse me of such a lie!
You have been shown from the bible, the book you choose to believe is inspired of God, verses that expose your rude, oafish, bullying, sarcastic behaviour as unchristian. And what is your response?
You choose to slander atheists.
I am not advocating that Christians, or any adherent to any other faith, leave their religions or their belief system. I am merely presenting an alternative view. That is all.
I do not try to be master of another’s faith like you do, Robert. Is it perhaps that you believe yourself still to be an elder? Sorry, but you cannot be.
1st Timothy 3:7
Also, he must be well spoken of by people outside the church – those who aren’t Christians – so that Satan can’t trap him with many accusations, and leave him without freedom to lead his flock
Living Bible Edition
You certainly don’t have a good reputation with me. I am not a Christian. This is not your flock, Robert. The Holy Spirit has not appointed you over the posters here.
The fact that you have slandered me, despite my best efforts to entreat and exhort you politely and respectfully shows that you are far, far from the Christian you think you are.
You are no elder here, Robert. You have no authority here, Robert.
To all those of the Christian Faith who post here.
You have nothing to fear from me. I am not out to ruin your faith. I am counting on it.
We need to work together to help the children, the women and the men who are trapped inside a cult. That is why I am here.
If you want to work with me, then I welcome it.
If you want to judge me, then go ahead. Matthew 7:1-5 John 3:16 – 21
It is clear from the many posts between Robert67 and myself that there is a problem here.
Is it me?
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Robert67,
You have cursed other atheists and I?
Oh dear! You really aren’t much of a bible scholar are you, Robert?
Allow an atheist to correct you once again. Oh, the delicious irony!
Matthew 5:22
…If you call your friend an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse him, you are in danger of the fires of hell.
Living Bible Edition
How does it feel, as an ex elder, to be publically exposed as a slanderer and a terrible Christian, by an atheist, Robert?
I don’t think that I would like it one little bit, if the tables were turned.
So here’s your chance, Robert!
Will you humble yourself, as your Saviour humbled himself, to the glory of God? Will you apologise for slandering atheists?
By the way, how can a non belief in any deity be an alternative “Good News”? Your quote from Galatians was nonsensical, I’m afraid.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Are you done? Please read what you wrote about me originally, pause, and then read everything you just posted.
Please read the rules if confused in anyway.
Peace be with you :)
Robert67 says: “Look at all their comments and their purpose for visiting this site will be made clear.”
I’m happy to submit myself to that test, Robert. I’m sure Excelsior, Ted, and Caroline would too.
At this point, your paranoid assertions are so bizarre that I’m not even worried anymore about the regulars on this site being swayed by them.
Tara asked a simple question that would have been better served by a simple answer, rather than you going off on a tangent that never even addressed her question.
Oh no, don’t get me wrong. I’m just asking a question here. I believe that Jehovah found it detestable but I’m just inquiring why the book of Leviticus did say such things. I could never become atheist or agnostic. I’m just learning to ask questions. It’s a whole new beginning to be able to do that.
Hi Tara. I appreciate that you think you started a controversy but it really isn’t about your comment. It’s about whether or not we can post any scriptures that paint God in a bad light or not.
Some think that when we point out scriptures from the Bible that paint God in a bad light, that we are trying to get people not to believe in God and that isn’t what is happening here.
I for one don’t know if there is a God or not but I should be allowed to point to scriptures in the Bible that should make anyone question whether it is “inspired” of a perfect God or not, especially when a certain topic like Abraham’s sacrificing his son comes up in the post.
Should we all accept all of those accounts as something wonderful and good or should we be allowed to question it and whether or not it was good or not?
This is not North Korea where we can’t express our thoughts or get killed. There are thousands of religions and all with their own holy books. Why should the Christian religion be the only one that can’t question their book?
I want to add a comment about something you and Robert brought up about Jeremiah 7:31 where it says something to the effect that the thought of the Israelites burning their children in the fire did not come up into Jehovah’s mind.
There is another scripture in the King James at Ezekiel 20:25,26 where it says: “Moreover also I gave them statures that were not good, and ordinances, wherein they should not live; and I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate to the end that they might know that I am Jehovah.”
Those statutes are talking about Exodus in the commandments from Moses such as Exodus 20:20 and Exodus 22:29,30.
Read those scriptures and draw your own conclusions.
This scripture at Ezekiel 20:25,26 in the K.J. is not worded like that in the NWT and that is because the Society “cleaned” it up to make you think differently. When Stephen was being stoned to death in Acts 7, he clearly said the Isaelites were worshipping Moloch during the forty years they were in the wilderness. Think about it. That scripture from the King James is from the King James printed by the Watchtower Society.
Robert67,
You ask, “are you done?”
Yes, I am satisfied that you have judged yourself and exposed your true attitude to all the posters here.
I sincerely hope that you will learn from your Saviour to humble yourself, and apologise for the slanders you have written.
We shall see!
To answer your question, Robert, yes I am done. I have a full and happy life, and I simply do not have the time to teach you the basics of Christianity on top of my other commitments.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Robert67,
Oh dear! Here we go again!
From this further sarcastic and passive aggressive comment, I can read that you have not paid the slightest attention to the passages of God’s inspired word, the bible, that I provided for your consideration.
Why is that, Robert?
Did the verses I quoted from the book you claim to believe is inspired of God not apply to you?
Sadly, my estimation of you is rapidly decreasing. I read your words and I am not reminded of Jesus Christ at all.
I shall try one last time to reach you through the words of the bible. If you will not accept the authority of the bible, then there is no other authority that can replace it, is there?
“If I had the gift of being able to speak in tongues, and could speak in every language there is in all of heaven and earth, but I didn’t love others, it would be of no value whatsoever. I would only be making a lot of noise.
Love is very patient and kind, never jealous or envious, never boastful or proud, never haughty or selfish or rude.
1st Corinthians 13:1,4,5
How is a sarcastic comment a reflection of this passage, Robert?
You bring no honour to God or Christ. You belittle and insult people who do not agree with you, in direct opposition to your professed Christian Faith. When you are politely called out on this, and shown scriptures that clearly show you are in the wrong, you ignore them and continue to use sarcastic comments in an attempt to belittle others.
Here is the truth. They only belittle you, Robert.
For the whole Law can be summed up in this one command Love others as you love yourself. But if instead of showing love among yourselves you are always critical and catty, watch out!
Galatians 5:14,15
…complaints and criticisms, the feeling that everyone else is wrong except those in your own little group…
Galatians 5:20
All scriptures are from the Living Bible Edition
This is the time for you to choose what you will do. You can choose to continue your personal crusade against atheists, agnostics and others who disagree with you, or you can choose to humbly apply the scriptures you claim to follow, and start writing comments that truly reflect your Christian Faith.
The choice is yours.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Dear Exelcior, stop fishing for an argument. Instead of correcting the once again anti faith comments made here, you respond to the reaction to these comments.
You obviously have no interest in how these comments upset people of faith here. As a matter of fact your more than happy to join in and preach the atheist belief.
It is ok by you to run over Abraham the father of the three biggest faiths on the planet, but BigBang forbid anyone should speak up with the counter view.
The Rules:
OFF-TOPIC COMMENTS – DO NOT post comments that are off-topic and bear NO RELATION to the page or article
RELIGIOUS NEUTRALITY – DO NOT post comments that are evangelical in nature or may be construed as imposing one person’s religious beliefs (or LACK THEREOF) over those of another.
Atheism is universally recognized as a belief, a belief that there is no God. Not indifference to whether there is one or not, just the not part.
How is it that you came to believe the NOT IMPOSING your beliefs on others didnt apply to Atheist?
The subject is Doctrine and loyalty to the Watchtower. The Watchtower is thicker than blood problem.
Not, let me see how, yet again I can trash these people’s God and hit my “I’m an atheist” shield button and no one is the wiser.
I’m surprised the moderator hasn’t done something about this sort of abuse towards the visitors of this site.
You’ve obviously misconstrued my wording in posts in hopes that the moderators still have the catfish society conditioning in them and will be swayed by your twisting of both subject and matter.
Are we at one of your old Kingdom Halls where seniority cliques run things? No we are not, this is a neutral site with clear rules. I haven’t called for the removal of anyone despite the blatant violations, only posted a retort to their subliminal recruiting. Guess what, ill continue to do so, until you and others stop the faith bashing. If my instincts are spot on, you’ll retort with what YOU the one with no faith considers faith bashing and tell us how it should or shouldn’t make us feel.
What a predicament. I want to stop replying to you Robert, but you keep peppering your comments with accusations that simply can’t be left as the final things said on the matter. Why do you keep doing that? Please stop doing that.
I suspect that EVERY believer on the site–except for you–understands that our simple expressions of concerns and doubts do not constitute “subliminal recruiting” for atheism.
If you see a comment you disagree with, simply counter it with a relevant, respectful expression of your opinion, leaving out personal attacks and paranoid accusations of sinister motives. Why would you not handle differences of opinion that way? Most people on this site do handle them that way.
And you listing the commenting guidelines is truly ironic. I’m sure I don’t need to explain why.
I do not want to keep talking about all of this. Nobody wants to see this issue keep coming up. Please stop making these defensive replies necessary.
Just for an experiment, don’t say anything that is a direct attack on our character or motives for awhile, and let’s see if things get better for everyone involved. Please?
Robert, the thing is that the account of Abraham sacrificing his son to Jehovah was a topic of conversation in this post and we should be able to tell our side of the account, don’t you think? It is within the posting guidelines.
Aaaaaaaaaaaagh all of you! Please cease and desist! I’m sorry I asked a question. That’s all it was. a simple question from a simple and honest woman! There is more at stake here than you lot bickering. Enough already. I’m going to bed now. If I hear anymore out of you all then I will put you on the naughty step. Or I may just refrain from commenting.
Tara, I ran the numbers, and you had somewhere in the neighborhood of 0% to do with this thing. And you are very much loved here by–I would guess–ALL of us, so please don’t get too distressed about this thing.
By the way, none of us thought your question was an expression of doubt, nor were any of us hoping that it was.
Also remember, Abraham had seen miracles with his own eyes and God had spoken to him personally. He would not have been confused, but he trusted God. He just knew that God would make it all better somehow.
That is quite different from having to obey the GB on this matter. It involves our loving our family which was instigated by God himself. Unless, he speaks to us personally, I do not see any reason to abandon our own family, how the Watchtower wanted us to. How would this be good for the human race? I suffered so much and so did my family for alienating them from me and my own family. What a bad lesson in good manners and loving kindness it was. What a life of no fun, no enjoyment and no close relationships.
We were a stressed out family counting our hours and working out how we could mix a short holiday in with our next district convention. We used to stay with my parents for that until my Dad could stand it no longer and told us we could not stay there anymore. That hurt of course. I don’t blame him. We were only there to go to the convention and we were gone all day. I feel ashamed of myself for having done this to them.
And my mother used to ring me up on my birthday and wish me a happy birthday. I always like a broken record would tell her that I didn’t celebrate it. And she would say, “Well, I celebrate it.” My poor dear Mum. How I wish she were still around to wish me “Happy birthday”. I would hug her till the cows come home. I really despise how I treated my own dear mother. There were times when I hated my life but I would not admit it.
Thank you John Redwood for writing this article with such sensitivity. It is somethng so many of us have had to live with and suffer for. We still suffer as in grief as those whom we used to love, we purposely made our love for them grow cold, we have to live with that bad memory and hope God and they forgive us for this mistreatment.
Meredith J,
An excellent point about Abraham having physical proof. The provision by God or Jesus Christ of physical proof is absolute in the bible.
Not one of those people was expected to just blindly trust a bunch of guys somewhere who claimed to represent God.
This kind of separation between what the bible actually says and what the WTBTS says the bible says is vital in the recovery of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
I personally can’t figure out why anybody could have respect for Abraham when Genesis 25:5,6 it says of him “Later on Abraham gave everything he had to Isaac, but to the sons of he concubines that Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts. Then he sent them away from Isaac his son, while he was still alive, eastward to the land of the East” and this is after Abraham was such a coward and showed no faith in Jehovah when two times he said that Sarah was his sister instead of his wife because he was afraid for himself. But, when Abraham and Sarah were sent away by these kings, those kings loaded him down with all kinds of animals and slaves and servants and silver. That is how Abraham got so rich.
The man was perfectly willing to offer his son Isaac as a burnt sacrifice to Jehovah which shows that Abraham did not look at this as an unusual request or unusual. Isaac did not know what Abraham’s true intentions were because Isaac asked where the sacrifice was.
So, the guy was a liar and a coward and would have killed his son at hearing the voice of the “true God” through an angel.
Genesis 22:”By myself I do swear’, is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘that by reason of the fact that you have done this thing and you have not withheld your son, your only one, I shall surely bless you and I shall surely multiply your seed like the stars of the heavens and like the grains of the sand that are on the seashore, and your seed will take possession of the gate of his enemies. And by means of your seed, all nations of the earth will certainly bless themselves due to the fact that you have listened to my voice.'”
So, it seems that those people thought that Jehovah would have been pleased if they offered their children as burnt sacrifices to him. How else could anybody take that account to mean? As long as they were willing to kill their own children, that would show how much they loved God. The Watchtower society seems to think that we also need to be that loyal to God but that kind of loyalty is insanity.
According to Jeremiah 7:22, Jehovah did not speak with their forefathers or command them in the day of bringing the Israelites out of Egypt, concerning whole burnt offerings and sacrifices and according to Acts 7:43, all the time the Isaraelites were in the wilderness, they were sacrificing to Moloch.
Your article talks about this date “found in the Watchtower of February 2016, study “”found in the Watchtower of February 2016, study” I dont think we have come to this date yet? Have we?
The Watchtower releases the magazines months in advance. The referenced article was released last week and is dated Feb 2016. ;)
The sadness lies in that families are torn apart it seems on every level, in every situation. Most sadly when a family member faces and succumbs to death and the outsider (df’d da’d) is not welcome to visit even prior to their death. This was my situation, my sibling , close to death, and when I requested to visit , the answer was “NO”. He’s gone now and now his family is reaching out . My reply is “NO” ! No, I don’t want to talk to you.
Excellent article, so much I could say about this. The part that stood out the most to me though was the five pictures and the whole spy network thing. It’s incredible to me that they don’t extrapolate this principle to include the mandatory reporting of sexual predators – by their own standards they stand condemned. Talk about straining the gnat (not to mention incredulity) and removing the splinter from other eyes with the sexual abuse rafter lodged firmly in their own, not to mention disregarding the weightier matters. If I could change the five pictures to make them more relevant I would do this:
Picture 1 – A young witness child being sexually abused.
Picture 2 – That child as a dysfunctional adult, confused, empty, depressed, suicidal, unloved.
Picture 3 – That same adult finally having the courage to go to the elders and expose their abuser after years of broken relationships, alienation and mental and emotional anguish.
Picture 4 – The victim having to confront their abuser in the presence of two elders who sympathise with the accused because they deny everything and there is only one witness.
Picture 5 – The predator sitting at the meeting with the elders and other families with young children, smiling, Watchtower in hand….
If there is any doubt that these men are truly delusional, this Watchtower magazine should dispel that. To think that this is the latest spiritual food – Feb 2016! There is no sign of progress here, quite the opposite. My personal feeling is that as they increasingly lose their grip on reality they feel the need to tighten their grip on everybody else they control.
I feel the same about the spiritual food .in the past at least there was dissusion about deeper things .however most if not all WT studies are now just about the GB s interpretation of moral issues and tightening thier grip on the sheep. The tactics are showing these men to be the stumbling blocks jesus spoke about . Im also begining to think they constitute the ” man of lawlessnes”
The problem is when anyone is part of a “high control” religion, personal individual thought that could lead to personal decisions are not only not encouraged but are actively encouraged to be suppressed.
I remember well many years ago when my husband was an elder and we lived over the road from another elder and their family. It was Guy Fawkes night ( live in the UK) and my husband had decided to take us out to watch fireworks in the nearest town from our car (. Not paying to see an event) and my children had conveyed this information to the other children of the elders family over the road.
Well all hell was let loose!!!!! The elder had my husband up before the other elders saying how wrong he was in doing this and how “pained and disturbed” his children had been knowing they were not allowed to go and see fireworks because as witnesses we should not be part of a plot to burn down the Houses of Parliament or celebrate Guy Fawkes being burned!!!!!
My husband was to say the least enraged by the narrowness of the other elder over the road but we all had to comply – like it or not – so no freedom of choice. Eventually my husband stepped down front serving because of total petty mindedness and unreasonableness.
I stopped going many years later and so did he eventually and although we split up we have both found true peace and happiness being who we truly are – not having to conform completely and constantly to others whims and wishes.
Thank goodness!!!!!
Excellent article that unfortunately sums up my childhood as well. The line in the Watchtower from “Anne” whose mother was disfellowshipped annoyed me the most from what the JW organization does: “Anne wrote and kindly reminded her mother that she had cut herself off from the family by her wrongdoing and unrepentant attitude.” What a bunch of garbage. Nobody cuts themselves off from their family by wrongdoing – only a cult would try and justify their despicable behavior in that manner AND try and twist it to make it seem like it is you shunning them. If that were the case, then why was the mother seeking to contact her daughter in the first place? I’m so glad you found your way out of this messed up organization.
The section on “The Abraham Principle” is spot on. That story and how the WT uses it is perhaps one of the powerful persuasion and control tools uses to condition the rank-and-file.
I, too, always had trouble reconciling the story, until I applied a different key Watchtower principle. That is “The Two Witness Rule.”
I realized that there was no one at the incident portrayed except Abraham and his son! There was no “second witness” to substiate what did or did not take place with that helpless child at the hands of his own father, who was like the Elder of all Elders who would ever exist.
So without that second witness I just cannot form an opinion on that incident, or use it as a basis for understanding anything then or now. It’s just a story. Just another story.
Thanks Watchtower for clearing that up!
;-)
The problem here is that stupid people listen to these guys. I have uncles and cousins that faded away. I never stopped associating with them. My brother and sister got disfellowshiped and I still called them and associated with them. I guys weak people need to be told what to do. As a young boy at the meetings I always thought who are these people telling me what to do. People should follow what they think is best. You don’t need another person telling what to do. I love how they got this new music. One of our new elders who listen to metal music was tapping his foot to the new pioneer song. What a hypocrite. I know he doesn’t really like the music. It was hilarious.
I was surprised to hear, in the last convention, the words “Are you still spiritually weak that you need someone to tell you right from wrong? A spiritually strong person can discern for him or herself right from wrong” (something along those lines). I thought how great it would be for the organization to relinquish control over to the congregations and individuals, but sadly it is not the case. The speaker that day spoke truth. “There’s nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so” (W. Shakespeare). Too bad the vast majority, as it seems, are too afraid to think for themselves.
“The problem here is that stupid people listen to these guys”.
When you have a group of men making bold claims that they are God’s only spokesmen on earth today and that this is God’s spirit-directed organization, how can it be said that “stupid people listen to these guys”?
Well obviously you don’t believe that they are guided by God’s holy spirit as they claim and that they are God’s only spokesmen on earth today. Kudos to you! If only the other 7,999,999 JWs could realize that they have involuntarily become captives of a concept (www.captivesofaconcept.com).
But they are just men. Imperfect men living off of other people. Never felt that they were like the pope an infallible. I don’t think they ever said they were infallible.
Markie, they make a point of saying that they don’t claim to be infallible but spirit-directed. So, then what is the difference?
Good question Caroline.
And if they are not infallible then why disfellowship/ disassociate persons for taking a blood transfusion? Why disfellowship a person for opposing their teachings? For that matter, why disfellowship anyone for any reason at all?
Why denounce other religions as false, Satanic and evil and that they will be destroyed by God since their own fallibility would very well mean that their religion’s teachings could be false as well? Why insist that they have “the truth” and everyone else is false since they are fallible?
Why do any of these things if they are fallible?
@Markie,
This is what the Bible states would happen when you are spirit-directed:
“But when he, the Spirit of truth comes, HE WILL GUIDE YOU INTO ALL THE TRUTH. He will not speak on his own, he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come” (John 16:13).
I fear for my nieces and nephews. My brothers and sisters are all too willing to obey every command. I wish I could be there for them, but returning to the meetings and having to sit through mind-numbing misinformation is hard enough as it is while getting the stank eye from those sitting around me. However, for them, I at least want to stay so that, in the events of their awakening, and the result of shunning, they can come to me and know I won’t judge them and I can show them the love they are meant to enjoy unconditionally. I really loved this article. Thank you
Awesome article, John! Where you said, …. feeling inadequate, or unable to keep track of the latest “new understanding” of truth.” OMG, that is so true, the modern JW can’t support their faith anymore. I comment on several fb pages and news pages where JWs are also commenting – they can’t even answer a simple question – or they just cut-and-paste and answer from the WT. They know nothing about the org they claim is the “truth”! You ask them to prove something and they say, “go to jwdotorg”! It’s so pathetic.
Thanks John for your hard work. Nice writing!
We are grateful to you.
G
Thank you very much for this article. Profound indeed!
Why do I feel I belong to this kinda reasoning?
When the Watchtower can extract the rafter in their own eye, then perhaps they will know how to extract the straw in their brothers eye.
From 1879 the Watchtower has printed and taught false dates to followers and the public in their publications. Shown disloyalty to God by running ahead and printing their own ideas only to be proved false in time. Sweeping these matters under the carpet…. If a publisher did what they do showing no repentance they would be judged, disfellowshipped and shunned.
When the Watchtower look at themselves in the mirror, and ask, how many have they disfellowshipped knowing full well they are guilty of sin. The rafter remains in the eye. So history has a way of repeating its self. The merry go round keeps going round and round till you get off and gain peace of mind.
John just a little constructive criticism. Your article goes on and on. I got 3/4 through it and said I get your point already. Many former JW”s know these dynamics of what was taught to begin with. We don’t need to have such in depth rehashing of what we already know. The point is redundant at best.
Haven’t we all had enough of this indoctrinating religion? Sometimes you got to just let it go and move forward with your life. Why alow these false religious adherents to rob you anymore of your time and joy. I notice lately a lot of long self serving and long winded comments to a lot of articles posted here. To this I say get over it and move on. Shouldn’t liberation from this Cult religion be enough to seek happiness and peace withen yourself?
People suffer enough from PTSD when they leave this religion. And it certainly is evidenced by the many comments through out this site. Take it for what it’s worth even if you don’t agree. Stop letting this cult religion effect your life after the fact and get on with it seeking a reasonable balance.
@John Baptist
I sometimes think it should be easy to “Stop letting this cult religion effect your life after the fact and get on with it seeking a reasonable balance.”
This might not be a difficult task for those who were a JW for a short time.
Some of us were raised in the JW org and the teachings/way of life are so deeply ingrained in our entire way of life that sometimes its difficult to make it through the day without having a flashback. Example: I dislike Sundays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays. Why? Those use to be the days I went to the meetings. It has been 7 years since I have been to a meeting but I still dislike those days.
Imagine finding out that almost everything you have been taught is a sham. Do you think someone telling you to “Stop letting this cult religion effect your life after the fact and get on with it seeking a reasonable balance” is really going to work?
This site and most of the comments help people like me remove those teachings/ways of life so that we can find a reasonable balance in out life.
So to you, John Baptist, I say shame on you!
@John Redwood
Kudos to you and your fine article!
John the Baptist, just a little constructive criticism about your comment as well. I see you don’t like long winded comments here and you think that we should just all move on with our lives instead. Tell me something. Do you ever watch the history channel? Do you ever see anything about World War 2? There is never and end to shows about World War 2 and even movies were made about it which you can still see. Why is that? Do you think that the world should just move on after World War 2? I guess in your way of thinking a half hour show about World War 2 about fifty years ago should have been enough and the people should have just moved on.
John Baptist, simply skipping over comments that appear to you to be too long would be more reasonable than asking the commenters here to refrain from fully expressing themselves. As you know, while some have found freedom, many here are still in the thick of it, trying not to lose family and friends still in the Org. Either way, flushing the devastating effects of decades of indoctrination out of one’s mind is an incredibly difficult thing to do. Communicating freely with others who can empathize is very helpful.
But, just to throw an M. Night Shyamalan twist into my comment, I will completely agree with you that there does exist the risk of becoming so obsessed with the goings-on of our little cult that we could fail to maximize our enjoyment of the good things in life that have nothing to do with the JW experience.
So, thanks for that good point. As for the other bit, don’t get your panties in a bunch over it.
John Baptist you sir reek of either a mole for the Watchtower seeking to apeace ex-jw activist or worse, a person completely indifferent to the excruciating emotional pain this cult has inflicted and continues to increasingly inflict on its members. I’m hopeing your just a person who has been able to leave it all behind yourself and is letting us know it is possible.
. Most of us still have family on the inside and have, not feel, a responsibility to help save them from this cult. The activism needs to keep increasing until this cult has nowhere on Earth to hide its true agenda and people everywhere see the faith killing dangers within.
@John Baptist
“Many (((FORMER JWs))) know these dynamics of what was taught to begin with. We don’t need to have such in depth rehashing of what we already know”…………….but persons new to the religion or who are considering joining the religion do. They don’t know as much about these things, if at all, as FORMER JWs do.
The info on this site is for those persons as well.
When those smiling JWs go knocking on people’s doors they certainly do not talk about the controversial/unpalatable aspects of their religion upfront. Their first order of business is to get the householders hooked on believing that they can live forever in paradise as that is what cults do – they hide many of their more controversial/unpalatable practices from newcomers and prospective members. So it is good that this website puts these things out in the open.
Imagine a JW telling a prospective convert upfront: Do you know that when you become a JW you will have to spy on other JWs and that other JWs will be spying on you as well?
@John Baptist – Yes, I agree with you, we have all had enough of this indoctrinating religion. Some of us are in a transitional state, having recently left. Others have been out for many years.
My question to you is, if you have moved on with your life and have no need to finish the final 25% of the article, why bother visiting this site in the first place? If you feel the information is redundant, you are free to read elsewhere.
There are many active Witnesses reading this site who are perhaps not at the same point of freedom which you have obtained. They may benefit from an editorial related to the latest Watchtower, which was one of the goals of this article.
For others who have left the organization, some articles might sound to you like “preaching to the choir.” That’s OK, not every article will appeal to every person. If you have a constructive suggestion, feel free to share it.
JR
The congregations Jesus’ own apostles founded did in time become the Church of the Middle ages, the delusion is one of a religion somehow being ‘incoruptable’ before the end times.
Jesus never gave any such assurance, unless I missed it.
The birds are gobling the fruit’s of the mustard tree now, tares are ckoking the wheat, NO religion is exempt. we were warned by the Christ himself many times. Acts 17 v 11.
The congregation the Apostles established split thousands of ways before the Middle Ages and there are now tens of thousands of different Christian denominations or factions of that first. You have to keep in mind that Jesus thought the way to live and salvation through faith in him and his father. He never mentioned any religion, nor did his apostles.
The only thing that comes close to a religion being pushed by one of them is in James 1:26,27
If any man thinks he is a worshipper of God but does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he is deceiving his own heart, and his worship is futile. 27 The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself without spot from the world.
Jesus himself said in John 14:5,6
Thomas said to him: “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?” 6 Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (nothing there about a publishing empire replacing the Christ as middle man, between us and our creator)
I would just focus on the common denominator in Jesus message to all who would claim to follow him and what all versions of Christianity preach, even though they may not practice. Love God, Love your neighbor, share his message of love and hope for a better tomorrow.
Could be that the only model given is the congregation ‘a people gathering’.
Revelation 2 & 3 describes congregations we would see as different religions mostly all with good and bad points.
We could see all congregations or even persons as being similar to one or other at various times.
Middle ages-Thyatira
Has IBSA become an Ephesus?
None beyond saving none above condemnation.
Robert67,
“If any man thinks he is a worshipper of God but does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he is deceiving his own heart, and his worship is futile”
The difference between the words you quote and the words you write is at times truly astonishing.
Accusing people of being WTBTS agents for voicing a different point of view! Accusing people who disagree with you of being akin to Nazis!
Of course, you can continue to do as you please, but if you want any credibility, You should start to actually APPLY the scriptures you quote to yourself first, in line with Matthew 7:1-5
In your defence, you did apologise on a different thread for another infringement of the principles you follow. That, sir, is to your credit.
I shall leave you with this scripture to prayerfully consider.
“But when the Holy Spirit controls our lives he will produce this kind of fruit in us: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control; and here there is no conflict with Jewish laws.” Galatians 5:22
Your passion is evident in your comments, and it’s good to be passionate about such serious issues as we discuss in this site. However, you and all of us need to learn to control ourselves and read through our comments before we post them. Ponder whether they exhibit the fruits of the Holy Spirit that you sincerely seek in your life.
I am confident in your sincerity and so I shall look forward to positive, loving and uniting comments from you in the future.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Stop recruiting for Atheism we can see your and Caroline’s post go far back always deviate from the topic and center on converting visitors to your atheist belief. No one is falling for your side show.
My comment was about admonition to the Congregations in Revelation 2 & 3, these were established groups. My comment also simplified as in R 2 & 3 one congregation has nothing good said about and one other has nothing bad.
Warning in Matthew 24 are to individuals about future individuals.
I have noticed that some comments seem to loose a word and sometimes another word may double, mine and others.
Terrific article. May the people ‘wake up’ in droves.
Yesterday i heard from a local radio station that 2014 in europe 18 millions children have be sexual molested and abuse from the family members, and from strangers. Many thousand have died because of the safering.
who knows how many was from jehovah witnesses homes?
It’ll be quiet interesting as the wave of immigration from Islamic countries permeants European society bringing their version of the “only true religion” and “one true god” upon the masses. I’m wondering since devote JWs like to practice avoiding worldly attachments will they morph into non-assimilation? By the way speaking of child abuse and those living in the UK, any new news of the abuse cases in Birmingham?
IMHO
dogstar
@SIRIUS The Islam version of a site like this http://www.falseislam.org
Thank you for the article it is very well documented.I can sympathize with the people have lost their relatives. I am just drifted away for numbers of years. I have two children, the one i haven’t see for 17. The second have cut ties with me for number of years. A new baby was born but i don’t think i will see the new grandson to the infinity. And i do believe because of the new instruction from the february watchtower 2016 even the relatives have to report to the elders any indication for apostasy, sone i will see the elders at my door steps.
But I feel very determent and strong for what i know
about the bible, world religion, jehovah witnesses, univers, history of christianity, this make me very confident, and strong against the history and corruption of the religious concept. I do feel very sorry for my children to be in this controlling cult.
But the real truth is we are followers of the follower, and victims of victims to jehovah witnesses cult.
Well folks this is my birthday today.All the snitchers out there you can report me because i’m celebrating my life today.No candle ,cake , drunkeness or presents, just my life. I’m glad to be alive and happy to be removing myself from a nasty cult. Guess what? since the religious divorce, i no longer feel hopeless, depressed unhappy or despair about the future. I do not claim any divine revelation but each day is a wonderful day of life good things and bad things. So snitchers celebrate with me congratulate me that my jw suicide attempts failed and i’m awake and alive. Ok if you need to stay in the doomsday cult my friends here will wish me well and understand i just needed to celebrate freedom and life. ruthlee
Happy Birthday, Ruth Lee!!!
I wish you happiness and a long life!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Happy birthday ruthlee and here’s to many happy days ahead of you in freedom from the Watchtower Organization.
♪♫ Happy Birthday dear Ruthlee, happy birthday to you! ♫♪ And many moreeee!
I’m so happy you survived the bad times and are still with us, Ruthlee. I just found this, and dedicate the first minute of it to you! (The rest of it is really good too.) https://youtu.be/e9Fk_1UnpH8
Happy birthday ruthlee, can’t someone be made a fuss of for just one day of the year? We all need it. Hope you had a nice day.
Happy Birthday Ruthlee :D Enjoy yourself!
Thank you all i feel so happy to have kind words and thoughts sent to me across the airwaves love ruthlee
It seems to me that the GB is getting more direct in their methods of mind control. I recall that when reading Watchtower articles in my youth, the control was a bit more subtle. Something to the effect, “Wouldn’t it be wise for true Christians to…” and then whatever action they were trying to incite.
Today it seems as if they are more direct. ‘You will do this, you must do that.’ Perhaps it is just that I have been away from it for long enough that I see it more clearly, but it seems like the GB is going for more direct control.
I believe this is due to the low increases they are now seeing and the numbers leaving the organization, which in turn is due to the availability of information through the Internet and websites like this one.
So the GB decides to institute more direct and aggressive control methods. But I am reminded of a quote from the original Star Wars movie (which by the way, during my childhood, I was told was a demonic film). Princes Leia to Governor Tarkin: “The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.”
To draw an allegory to the evil Galactic Empire of Star Wars, the GB seeks to control through fear. It will fail.
I like to compare the GB with the Borg in star trek resistance is futile you will be assimilated. Once part of the collective one is linked to the hive mind any sort of atempt to leave is punished by being deactivated.
I call Locutus
Excellent analogy.
I have to agree. As they lose control and numbers are dropping the only way to try and prevent anymore defections is no longer through subtle mind persuasion, but more overt and insidious what is right and wrong.
At least before, you could always say it as a conscience thing. No longer.
As a side note. At our one day assembly with around 900 people only two were baptized and they were very old. No young ones at all.
I expect the day will come when they either stop reporting numbers in the Yearbook or just start padding them like they used to do with the Publisher hours per month.
Thanks John. Your time is well spent in writing this article.
Such information is important in helping people from being
deceived into joining this organisation. It’s extreme doctrines
and demands are personality and life destroying on so many
levels. It needs exposing.
John Redwood – Excellent! A thought provoking and well written article – I personally did not find it too long. How can you reduce a lifetime of experience into a few paragraphs? Your comments struck a few chords with me.
I remember attending weddings of ‘worldly ones’ and staying out of the church. At my brother’s funeral I sat in church but wanted the walls to swallow me up. I did not take part in any of it, for fear of displeasing ‘Jehovah’. At my mother’s funeral at the crematorium I did not join in the songs or prayer! How the GB controlled my thinking, even when my heart was breaking.
When my husband and I attended the funeral of a disfellowshipped brother out of compassion for the family, I was shocked when his ex-wife and daughter (still JWs) did not attend, or even send flowers. This same sister also did not attend the wedding of her other disassociated daughter. What divisions the GB have caused. What sadness.
P.S. I have just submitted my disassociation letter of 18 pages! The research was thorough, the condemnation explicit. O.K., so the elders will probably not read it, but it got it all off my chest.
It is also now available on line for anyone to read and I am happy to know that it may help others to escape. Surely that is what this is all about?
Congratulations, Bad Penny! If you’re able to post a link to that letter, I’d love to read it.
Bad Penny, that is a very powerful letter. I hope the elders will be curious enough to read it.
Some favorite lines:
“I had always thought that Jehovah’s people should be the most well educated people on earth.”
“But what was this, all those changes of thought, and all in one go!”
“On further investigation I discovered an earlier edition dated 1891 when the pyramid had apparently shrunk slightly to enable Russell to come to the year 1874!”
And, “I rest my case, literally!”
Though we differ on the issue of Faith, I agreed with much of the letter, and I really enjoyed the expert presentation of all of it. Thank you for sharing it, and again, a sincere congratulations for finding a path to freedom!
Ruthlee. When I have my night cap later on.
I’ll make it a generous one and celebrate
with you. Best wishes, from Ted.
PS. It won’t be coaco.
sweetness to you all with love ruthlee
John well done! The WT is a complete maximum security prison. As Witnesses we do not know whether we are Jews or Christians. Christians are no longer under Jewish laws which the GB is flaunting about as do or die bible principles. Since Jesus shot down those laws as no more relevant I do not see why the GB would use those discredited laws as propaganda to brainwash us day in day out if the GB has good motives. I therefore adopted a simple plan after I started fading. Since Jesus is the way the truth and the life I ignore any words or messages that contravene or misinterpret what Jesus said.
Well said Simple, I’m definitely on the same plan. No longer feeling around looking for God, while playing Marco Polo/where is God with the Watchtower. I have the manual right on my desk. I Stick to the simple instructions our redeemer gave for this life.
But according to Geoffrey Jackson, Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t have a spy network. Here are his exact words when he testified before the Australian Royal Commission:
“It presupposes that Jehovah’s Witnesses have some sort of spy network to monitor these people, which we don’t.”
He lied !!
———————–
23 Q. Well, if the elders come and knock on the door to
24 a member who has been inactive and sought to fade away and
25 says, “Well, are you still a Jehovah’s Witness or not?”,
26 and the person says, “Well, no, I don’t want to be
27 a Jehovah’s Witness”, the consequence of that will be
28 either disfellowshipping or disassociation, won’t it?
29 A. No, I don’t agree with that, not from what I have
30 seen. Can I just say, this hypothetical situation, which
31 is probably one that could happen ‐ two elders call at the
32 door of someone, they are not going to come out and say,
33 “Hello, I’m celebrating Christmas”. It presupposes that
34 Jehovah’s Witnesses have some sort of spy network to
35 monitor these people, which we don’t. But if that person
36 says, “Look, I was baptised as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses,
37 but I’m no longer active”, no doubt the elders will say,
38 “Well, we would encourage you to return. Is there anything
39 we can do to help you?” Now, in that process of them
40 returning, if they feel prompted to say that they have been
41 living a lifestyle that is contrary to what Jehovah’s
42 Witnesses would live, then certainly we would handle that.