They are a familiar sight walking through residential areas, all dressed up with their Bibles and literature. Eagerly, they go from house to house ready and willing to warn of a looming doomsday they believe the Bible foretells.
They are Jehovah’s Witnesses, and their ministry has been the subject of controversy from its inception. Their “in your face” approach to religion has historically been met with mixed feelings.
Modern democratic society does generally allow people to visit homes with a religious message, but what if their motives are more far-reaching? Suppose their endgame is to acquire a new volunteer for their religious corporation, and they’re willing to stretch the truth to make this happen? Is it right of them to bring deception to people’s doorsteps in an attempt to increase their chances of gaining a human resource?
Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t immediately tell those to whom they preach the whole story of what it means to be in their religion. One example of this is that they don’t explain that membership in “good standing” requires a special type of maintenance.
Retaining a “good standing” as a Witness requires maintaining a social distance from unbelievers. Before you can even join you’ll be expected to change your standards as regards relationships, and keep it that way.
What Witness preachers neglect to mention early on is that joining them could very well mean breaking ties with friends and family. That crucial information doesn’t come in until much later.
In the beginning, they’ll say a simple home Bible study under their tutelage, using only their literature, will answer all of life’s big questions. It’s going to be quite some time before they start to list the “bad associates” you must avoid if you wish to make progress.
Divide and conquer
In March of this year JW Broadcasting (the new Jehovah’s Witnesses televangelist channel) showed a short film featuring a fictitious boy named Marcus whose mother had recently been baptized (skip to 00:27:29)…
Marcus is not a Jehovah’s Witness, but his recently-converted mother begins studying with him, taking him to meetings and on the door-to-door ministry. Just before the film is played it is introduced by Governing Body helper John Ekrann, who says:
“…there is a great need for more zealous workers in the organization today. If you’re young are you trying to determine what to do with your life? Maybe pioneer? Work at Bethel? Or maybe pursue a career? It’s a big decision to make and requires many sincere prayers to Jehovah for wisdom. But if you are in a religiously divided household it could be that you are facing some unique challenges when deciding your future. This young man is going through just that…”
Notice how Ekrann is keen to emphasize to unconverted children, his target audience, the organization’s “great need” for workers. This statement reveals the real purpose of the Witness preaching work: to recruit workers for the organization.
The film is about a boy whose mother was reached by their ministry. It speaks directly to the children of parents who have passed through the entry process, and attempts to hook them in too.
The video depicts Marcus going through a type of tug-of-war between his mother, who wants to indoctrinate him, and his father, who wants him to have a career. The interactions between the father and son are predictable. The unrealistic script shows neither understanding nor empathy for the painful position one is thrust into when their loved one is captured by undue influence.
For instance, such a person will start noticing changes in their loved one’s behavior. Information or ideas that they previously wouldn’t have been opposed to are suddenly dismissed, marginalized and even avoided altogether. Irrational fears develop due to phobia indoctrination, and their very thinking noticeably alters as they put on the “new personality.”
It can be a terrifying experience for someone whose loved one is subjected to subtle mental coercion. Steve Wells, creator of the useful tool the Skeptics Annotated Bible recently did a superb interview on JW Podcast. In it he recounted his experience with his son when he noticed that he was being drawn into a cult (interview begins at 00:06:08)…
In the JW Broadcasting propaganda film the father’s anxiety is eventually pacified when his son explains how the religion helped keep him out of trouble with drugs and girls. Again, the script is written by JWs who seem completely out of touch with unbelievers like Steve Wells, who have been forced into situations similar to that of the father in the video.
Though unsurprisingly not depicted in the film, Watchtower does know of the troubles that result from their conversion of someone who has a family. For example, apart from giving harmful and wholly inappropriate advice on how to counter domestic violence, the infamous “Selma and Steve” February 15th 2012 study edition of The Watchtower admitted that “unbelieving spouses may feel abandoned or threatened when their mate leaves to participate in Christian activities.”
When someone you love is subjected to mental coercion before your very eyes, there is understandable anxiety. Very little of this, however, is portrayed by the father character in the film. Realistically, a father would be extremely uncomfortable with the idea that his wife and son were joining a religion he didn’t believe in – especially one that practices shunning and coerces members to forgo higher education and a career in favor of becoming volunteer canvassers.
The father in the story is a threat to Watchtower’s goal of acquiring his son’s life as a resource for its purposes.
The film shows a “bethelite” visiting the congregation from headquarters. The bethelite spends time with Marcus and fills the older brother/father-type role. His influence ends up being a strong factor in Marcus’ decision to abandon his father’s aspirations in favor of pursuing his life as a Witness.
This is very bad news that Marcus must break to his father. Again, the father character shows only signs of mild anxiety, even though a stranger from New York is tugging his son away from a real life towards a multi-million dollar doomsday cult.
Propaganda is never realistic.
While the short film is a heavily sanitized version of real events that often take place, it still clearly shows the Watchtower’s “divide and conquer” strategy in accumulating life-long volunteers.
Isolation from support
As you can clearly see from Watchtower’s own writings and productions, their goal is to enter family environments and convert the family entirely or draw certain individuals away for themselves. That’s why they shamelessly refer to the “sword” mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 10:34 in excusing the way relationships are dashed to pieces. This devastation is partly accomplished by isolating converts from unbelieving friends and family, or any who are opposed to their loved one being subjected to undue influence.
Most who grow up outside of the Watchtower environment will have naturally built up a support network of friends and family. Anyone who can genuinely support the recent convert will be targeted as a threat to the indoctrination process. Without isolation from that key support network there is a much less likelihood of indoctrination taking root.
Not so harmless
So, when you see Jehovah’s Witnesses, whether in some public place or at your doorstep, don’t be fooled by their innocent appearance. Keep in mind that, while individual Witnesses are usually very kind and generous people, they represent a callous religious institution bent on destroying your relationships with anyone who doesn’t embrace their doomsday predictions.
The Witnesses you interact with might actually be the friendliest people you have ever met. But please remember that the Watchtower corporation most certainly is not your friend. It wants you as a resource.
If you or someone you love has been subjected to undue influence there are many resources available for you to peacefully handle the situation. Steven Hassan, a leading cult expert, has written several books on the subject of undue influence, the most recent of which is the 25th Anniversary edition of his most popular book Combating Cult Mind Control.
Please don’t just watch helplessly as a cult works its subtleties on someone you love. Educate yourself on how to intervene without resorting to aggression. If you do so, you will have a good chance of turning the tide in helping someone wake up from corrosive indoctrination, and get on with enjoying life with you in it.
James, you have nailed it. Excellent, well-written post. Keep them coming.
An extremely well written post. What’s more, it is absolutely correct. Once in the ‘organisation’ you are controlled by the ‘Governing Body’ in what to think, read and behave. I would much rather be a Christian in accordance with the ‘Golden Rule’ (Mathew ch7 verse 12) and (Mathew ch 22 v 37-40)
Excellent article! All my life, I viewed the “unbelieving spouse” as the bad guy. It’s so refreshing to see the viewpoint from the other side. How would any father feel if he saw his son give up on his studies in school and a career to take up recruiting for a cult? The JW organization falsely claims to love you, but their true colors show should you ever disagree with them on a doctrinal matter that makes no sense (e.g. the overlapping generation of 1914), or get old and are no good to them anymore. A boy’s father loves him unconditionally – again unlike the JW organization who quickly casts off family members who do not wish to join the organization.
Excellent work, divide and conquer, communism.
divide and rule (or conquer)
phrase of divide
1.
the policy of maintaining control over one’s subordinates or opponents by encouraging dissent between them, thereby preventing them from uniting in opposition.
“the politics of divide and rule in society”
Divide and Rule
The concept refers to a strategy that breaks up existing power structures and prevents smaller power groups from linking up.
My 37 year old son is a JW and the only time he contacts me is if he needs something. He never ever phones, texts or calls to just see how I am.
“The father in the story is a threat to Watchtower’s goal of acquiring his son’s life as a resource for its purposes.”! I tend to think that is the very reason why the Watchtower fear more what they call “apostates” than “states”! We know all Watchtower’s intentions especially when it comes to understanding the meaning of:
(Matthew 23:27, 28) . . .“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you resemble whitewashed graves, which outwardly indeed appear beautiful but inside are full of dead men’s bones and of every sort of uncleanness. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
These are some of the words that help me to understand today’s Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Well written article but I’m afraid the author is severly misinformed. He clearly had some bad experiences with some members and is now taking it out on the entire organization.
I am not a JW but I do respect their beliefs and believe them to be the closest thing to the truth. I could be mistaken but so far all I see here is bitterness and resentment.
There are many ex Jehovah’s witnesses that leave the organization and you never hear from them again. It’s clear who the troublemakers are here. There is a fairly large group of Elders that study ex-members and your patterns of thinking. You are so predictable and your anger is right on point. How could this not be the truth when they themselves can predict how you ALL react when you become corrupted?
You couldn’t live up to Jehovah’s standards, instead of praying about it and asking for help, you turned to Satan, who has become your father. Let us not forget that Satan is the father of lies though. Whatever he has offered you, please try to remember that it will not last. Money, sex, fame, these things are nothing compared to the happiness you can find in Jehovah’s organization.
I will pray for all of you, I am no better since I am also not a JW but at least I recognize the truth. Don’t give up, we can all be in paradise soon!
Best wishes.
You speak as though you were once one of Jehovah’s Witnesses? Are you disfellowshiped?
I have never been a Jehovah’s Witness. I did grow up around people in the truth though. I simply have not committed myself yet. No excuses.
my wife was born and raised a JW and when she was upset to learn some things they declared she was calling herself a prophet and seeking to pull a following from their ranks. in one discussion with an elder he proudly declared that if the org told him to declare a green tree as red, he would gladly do so. so much for serving a God of Truth.
It is unfortunate that your wife was mislead by an evil slave. Jehovah will make things right if her heart is true to what is right.
“I am not a JW but I do respect their beliefs and believe them to be the closest thing to the truth.”
Are JW beliefs true, or not? If they are true, then let’s see some evidence pronto. If they are not true, then Jehovah’s Witnesses break up families needlessly and even kill people through their blood policy.
The ball is well and truly in your court, JaphetsHonor. Let’s see what you’ve got.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ2lMsmjQY0
To add to your question Cedars..
I can always remember the question in the back of my mind as an Elder, every time a committe matter came up and that is.. “The two witness rule” every matter is established by two or three witnesses according to the Bible. And i used to think “Where are the witnesses to this parousia”?
So they need to also bring forward these witnesses to the parousia and then have a brain scan done to them if they claim to have seen the Christ who is invisible..
I could, except Jehovah’s honor comes first. You must understand that accepting challenges from passionate, yet extremely biased people serves no good. That is why Jehovah’s Witnesses are instructed to not engage apostates. You catch them in circular logic and then twist the scriptures to your liking. You quote mine the organization’s literature to find faults while ignoring the fact that it is run by imperfect humans.
At the end of the day, you just could not handle the burden of our heavenly father’s will. I do not think you will be destroyed in Armageddon, in fact, I think out of everyone you are the ones who are the most in need of mercy. Satan has truly blinded you to the truth.
“You must understand that accepting challenges from passionate, yet extremely biased people serves no good.”
anybody passionate is rather biased. apparently you figure that you should only discuss people that have not had direct life altering firsthand knowledge of what it’s like?
“You quote mine the organization’s literature to find faults while ignoring the fact that it is run by imperfect humans.”
and yet they have no problem running imperfect humans into the ground, little kids as well as the adults, to protect the image of the business.
“Satan has truly blinded you to the truth.”
or is it you that satan has blinded? you seem unwilling to look at that which you so strongly support.
“You quote mine the organization’s literature to find faults while ignoring the fact that it is run by imperfect humans.”
I don’t have to quote mine Watchtower publications to find nonsense. Once you wake up from cult indoctrination and go back to reading or viewing Watchtower propaganda it’s hard not to notice it.
And this “imperfect men” retort is the most lazy argument an apologist can regurgitate. If the Governing Body really are simply imperfect men then it’s high time they started acting accordingly by not insisting that any who disagree with them are worthy of either shunning or death by being eaten by birds.
You couldn’t sound more like the fundamentalist Islamic state if you tried, my friend.
I find it quite interesting you admit that the carrying out of the will of the heavenly father, as prescribed by the Watchtower Society, is burdensome. You do understand!
JaphetsHonor,
You are like a character on Jehovah’s Witness Topix forum that I use to regularly post on, who claims to be in full support of the JW organization and even knows it inside and out as to it’s doctrines and teachings and policies, yet he claims to not be baptized as yet and a study for over six years to boot.
Yet he has not committed himself to being baptized as one who is officially associated with the JW organization?
What goes there, may I ask?
JaphetsHonor,
I am still a JW and i can tell you that everything you read in this post is true, i have been a JW for 15 years now, just think about this, the logic you are using can be used with any other religion, whatever you think of JW, why cant it be applied to any other religion? The pope being an imperfect human for example, JW are generally nice people but many teachings are just wrong and damaging, shunning, blood transfusions, higher education. Really think about it, I’ve noticed every JW serves a different kind of Jehovah, and that made me realize people do create their own god, their is JW that belive that God (creator of the universe) will punish you for using a beard, i have event met some that disprove of shorts and all kinds of little rules of no importance at all, if you do become one (a JW) well good for you but be ready to make allot of sacrifices, ot for god, it will always be men telling you “this is what gos is trying to say” the word of god but humans always do the talking.
@Japhets honor.
I guess you will be destroyed along with the rest of us at Armegeddon since you are not baptized and have only been “hanging” around the truth all your life as you say and not making the commitment. Cmon Japhet, practice what you preach now! Don’t worry the birds of heaven will pluck your eyes out and ours all together at the same time.
We ll need to eat right?Hurry there are only a few more months left before Armegeddon, you still have time,
Jehovah’s Witnesses are indeed indoctrinated & naïve.
Their bible is intellectually dishonest, as are the Witnesses themselves…
You talk like a witness, puffed up, deluded and self righteous… Yet you say you are not?? But you call it the truth and Jehovahs organization! And you recomend it as the best way of life yet you are not a JW? Sounds like you are a witness lying about your identity because your afraid what might happen if your group of Elders who study ex-JW’s, finds you here on this site…
I grew up around people in the truth my entire life. I myself have not committed yet though. I do not fee worthy enough. I know, I have to stop making up excuses. Call me hypocrite if you wish, you would be right to do so.
Hello JaphetsHonor, have you ever thought that maybe you don’t commit because deep down you know their claims cannot be substantiated and their practices are immoral?
Part of what you say is true. I guess deep down I do have some doubts but that is to be expected. Those who serve God need faith, without faith our works are dead.
I have not committed because I want to be sure I can fulfill my oath to Jehovah. It is not something I can take lightly. I did not have the advantage of parents who were in the truth. So I was never raised in it, I’m sort of at a disadvantage.
For all of the mistakes ex members like to point to, one thing can be said for sure, JWs are some of the happiest people around. They have purpose, unity, and they are not afraid of death.
Jephet?
Worthy enough? You are missing the entire point of Christianity by your comment. That is exactly why Jesus came to the earth and died for us bc NOBODY is Worthy enough! That is the mental burden the WT puts on people. They make everyone feel not worthy to be a JW and like the Pharisees they put milestones around the necks of their followers always demanding more time, more money, more work, more acceptance of their beliefs so that they never feel “WORTHY”. Jesus sacrifice covers all of our unworthiness. THW WT misses the entire point of the ransom.
Are you aware that, according to this “true” religion in the 80s, that we should be in the paradise by now?
That is what I was taught. They did not have their prophecy come true, did they?
But if I had spoken out, and said that I did not believe their interpretation, I would have been disfellowshipped, would I not?
My advice to you is never become a JW!
Do yourself a big favour. Conduct your own research on the “truth” that “Jehovah God’s spirit – directed Organisation” has peddled to you. All the information you need is freely available on the Internet.
Your assumption that all of us “couldn’t live up to Jehovah’s standards” is frankly insulting!
Tell me, does the deliberate covering up of child sexual abuse count as one of “Jehovah’s standards”?
Tell me, does telling a victim of rape that they will be disfellowshipped for not convincing three men that they cried out and fought their attacker count as one of “Jehovah’s standards”?
Tell me, does denying the victim of domestic abuse the right divorce the abusive mate and then to marry a truly loving partner “in the Lord” one of “Jehovah’s standards”?
All of these unchristian policies are followed by the religion that you claim is the “closest thing to the truth”.
I’m afraid to say that it is you who is “severely misinformed”.
Please do your research on this cult.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
All of the things you are referring to have nothing to do with Jehovah and the Bible. Those things come along as a result of man’s imperfection. Yes they are horrible things and are not excusable, but at the end of the day it is the responsibility of the individual.
You can read, so you know what the Bible says and does not say. If you allow yourself to be taken in by false teachers, well, Jehovah can not be blamed.
With respect, they have EVERYTHING to do with Jehovah and the bible!
God is a God of Love and Truth.
If people claiming to be his sole representatives act unlovingly and are not truthful then their claim to be representing God is untenable.
Yes, the individual carrying out the sin is primarily culpable, but anyone who covers up the sin is also culpable, do you not agree?
The decision to disfellowship a lady for not convincing a group of three men that she fought and cried out when she was raped has NOTHING to do with the evil person who raped her. It is a decision taken by the elders, who are in turn told what to do by “Jehovah God’s spirit – directed Organisation”!
So I ask again for a proper reply to my questions, please.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
David and Solomon were the representatives of Israel to God. When David had Bathseba’s husband killed he did not do this alone. He had an entire Kingdom (organization) to carry out his orders. Yet in the end David is the one who carried the guilt.
It is the same today. If someone in the leadership has become mislead, Jehovah will reveal it in good time. In the meantime we must be vigilant and study our Bibles. I hope that answers your question.
@JaphetsHonor,
You say that if something is wrong in our leadership, that Jehovah will reveal it in good time. Well, we see a Royal Commission that is presently taking place in Australia, and we have just seen two big court cases lost, one in the US, one in the UK. All these investigations have shown that the judicial committee system, as well as the way elders were instructed to deal with child abuse, as faulty. And Jehovah has done nothing as his name is dragged through the mud.
Doesn’t that show your statement is rubbish?
No the author is not misinformed. You talk about them as they are the “truth”. Somehow I don’t believe your not a JW because if you were in reality instead of being in a illusion you would then See that they are a Cult and wouldn’t agree with their methods of operation. So why would you defend something your not a part of? Wouldn’t you want to be one since you feel they are the closest thing to the truth. They either are or not. Perhaps you should study all their failed prophecy predictions from their beginning from their own published material with a open mind and you will see how quickly faliable they are. You can talk in generalities but when you get down to really researching this 130 yr old cult you will then see the True reality of it all.
Is Satan the father of cognitive troubles, too? You need to visit a psychiatrist!
To Japhetshonor:
When I was studying with the JW’s my family was adamantly opposed, my mother in particular. She used to go through my room when I wasn’t home and throw away any WT literature she would find. Nonetheless, I persevered, got baptized, and attended KH meetings for 10 years. At that point, when I became disillusioned, I moved away to pursue a career in sales. Fast forward two years later, my mother has died from cancer, and after her memorial service a witness from my old congregation stopped by the house with a casserole and a WT tract about the resurrection. I told the woman that my mother was not a witness and had rejected “the truth” and therefore would not be part of the resurrection. Her answer to me was that “Nobody knows who will or won’t be resurrected, only Jehovah can read hearts.” My question to you, since you seem to be so closely connected, is what is being taught as truth; that those who do not accept the JW message will be destroyed as they are swine and we should not throw our pearls before them, or that since we can not read hearts we have no business making those kinds of statements about non witnesses?
@Japhatshonor.
You mind is a beautiful thing. It is a defenseless sponge ready to suck up with great acceptance anything it is told.
So by all means read your bible, join a cult and then go right ahead and drink the cool aid. Drink lots and lots of cool aid.
While I will acknowledge a person’s beliefs, I do not respects beliefs that justify harming someone whether physical or psychological
@japhetshonor. Based on your comments it sounds as if you are a true believer in what JW’s teach? However you call the “APOSTAES” liars and they follow Satan the Father of the lie? I was a active JW for well over 20 years, an Elder, a traveling speaker, a Pioneer at times and attended any and all meetings. I even have had Governing body member stay at my house several times on their trips into the USA. I NEVER EVER heard of a large “group” of elders who study the patterns of those that leave the WT. This sounds like you made this up and even if it true what difference does it make? The fact remains that the WT hurts its member and is untruthful with the public especially when they go door-door and claim they are just spreading the bible message and want you to have a “BIBLE STUDY”. Their entire intent is to convert someone to the JW way of thinking and divide their families. All Cults do that.They are guilty of NON-DISCLOSURE of their real intent.
How can you claim they are the closest thing to the truth? Where and when have they had any of their duff predictions come true? Can you Please name 1 prediction they have had come true in their short 135 years of existence?
Don’t you as a JW believer have to admit that their teaching on 1914 and the generation has utterly failed and not come true? Do you accept the CRAZY TEACHING about overlapping generations now ( whatever that really means ) even though for 70 plus years the WT unabashedly stated that THIS GENERATION WILL NOT PASS AWAY before they are gone from the earth? 1914 is the main JW doctrine that the entire religion was based on.
Do you accept whatever they teach and whatever they say about the ever changing doctrines? The F&D Slave now they are only the 7 governing body members but for decades it was any of the anointed at any time on the earth? The flip flop on Blood transfusions and now they can “TAKE” blood fractions? where do blood fractions come from? So if they can take blood fractions that come from “Blood donors” then why don’t JW’s donate blood since they are taking it from donors? Isn’t this all pretty hypocritical? So I ask you Japhets honor to show e 1 prediction they accurately foretold beyond a doubt that has come true in 135 years of prophesying? I need something specific not general like oh things are bad and WW1 was the worst war in the World up to that time ( which it actually wasn’t ) google “worst wars in human history” and you will see many other wars that killed more humans than WW! and WW2. The WT never tells you that. Pleas Please show me 1 truthful and accurate prediction the WT has made that has clearly without doubt come true. We know they have been wrong hundreds and hundreds of times so just show me once where they have prophesied accurately and it clearly came true. I look forward to your answer. Oh…one other thing..You said you will pray for all of us? Please remember that according to the WT Jehovah only listens to the prayers of the JW’s right? The fact that you have been hanging around the JW’s many years of your life and never got baptized and did not make the commitment makes it even surer that Jehovah will not listen to your prayer. Your prayers are useless unless you are a baptized JW according to the WT. You should know that already.
Please explain about this “happiness” you can find in the JW organization? If people were so happy why do they have the one of lowest retention rate of any other Christian based religion? Why do they have higher than normal mentally disturbed people than the general population? Why do they have higher than normal suicide rate than the general public? Why are they being sued almost daily for child abuse and sex abuse cases? Happiness does not come through being a member of any organization. If that was the case then ONLY JW’s would be Happy in this world. Truth is most JW’s are not happy, most just go along with the game and are stuck and afraid to leave and of being shunned. as a former Elder I can personally tell you a very high percentage of the JW’s are depressed and unhappy.Persoanlly I believe it is bc the WT controls every aspect of their lives and takes away any human freedom of thought and expression that they may have. Also they take away any human creativeness we have and put clamps on freedom of expression and thought which are God Given rights to all of us. So Japhetshonor…that one accurate fulfilled prediction please?
!889-1914-1925-1942-1975-Did I miss any? For all those failed dates by this cult and yet someone stays with them anyway shows their mentality.If their wife or husband had an affair going on and 5 times were caught, would you still stay there and keep looking the other way? Every jw knows about all those failed dates. Then why do they continue to take in garbage in and out? There is only one answer. they are captives of a concept. An illusion, a myth, a fairy tail. They indeed have taken too many MD PILLS/. THERE IS NO HOPE FOR THEM.
@Japhetshonor.
As a JW believer even though you are not officially a JW as you claim you should know according to the JW teaching your prayers will not be listened to by Jehovah bc you are not baptized and also you “know” the truth but have not acted on it so no need to pray for these people on this site it is to no avail. Jehovah is not listening to your prayer according to your own belief system.So you are ok with any changes in doctrine the WT makes at anytime and you cannot question it? 1914 flip flop, blood transfusion flip flop, F&D slave flip flop,Shunning flip flop, the type and anti type flip flop,Can you show us 1 prophecy in the WT 135 years that they predicted that ha clearly without doubt come true? Just 1 Prohecy with accuracy?
So you are Ok going along w any change they come up with at anytime?
Please don’t pray for me, because I think I am nearer the truth than any Jehovah’s Witness.
To me the trinity is the truth, & makes perfect sense.
Jesus is not ‘a god’, HE IS GOD…
Nice article.. Just one quick question though!
John Ekrann? Is he now a GB member?
I have not heard this but perhaps he is..
@Japhets
Your remarks are inconsistent, even self contradictory. I won’t belabor them all, but a large group of elders studying so called apostate thinking? Funny that you could have such inside information when you’re not even a JW yourself.
WT is the apostate. Twisting Jesus words and deceiving people with false prophecy and lies, is a serious sin.
It doesn’t matter if some of their teaching is true. That does not excuse their sin. If I planned to marry a woman and she told me she could be faithful 90% of the time, I would say sorry sweetie, 90% is not good enough. Goodbye and good riddance!
You misunderstand the application and humility that goes into truly understanding Scripture. How many times did David falter? King Solomon, the wisest and one of the few men Jehovah has ever blessed. Didn’t all of these men falter? Why would you expect less of the organization today?
The truth never changes, that is why it was written down in the Bible.
Yes, these men faltered. But their sins were exposed and dealt with by God.
Why won’t the governing body provide the “superior authorities” (Romans 13) with the list of known paedophiles that they possess, despite the Courts demanding it?
David’s sin was exposed and dealt with by God.
When are the society going to allow the superior authorities to deal with the gross crime of child abuse?
The superior authorities are placed there by God. We are all obliged to follow their rules, unless it breaks God’s law.
Can you point me to a verse in the bible where we are commanded to keep serious crimes hidden from the police and courts?
This is not “faltering”. This is a deliberate policy to attempt to keep the reputation of the JWs as holier people than everybody else.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
The keyword here you seem to be ignoring is that their sins were exposed and dealt with by GOD. It is not up to Satan’s system of things to render judgment. Jehovah will set all things right and cast judgments.
@JehapetsHonor,
Can you please put my name on your “not interested” or “do not call” witnessing card.
Thank you & have a nice day.
If that is the case then what you’re suggesting is that God will dismantle and punish all those that have been running the organization during these crimes.
Why would God not just abandon the Witnesses as his chosen people? According to the Bible he’s done it before when he’s been unhappy with his “chosen people”. What makes you think he hasn’t already moved away from them? If God was still with the Witnesses, why would he allow child abuse scandals to taint the name of his supposed organization? You speak of a very incompetent God if that’s the case.
Sir,
You fail to see my point, so I will try again. I am sorry that I have not made this clear for you.
The examples you gave were from the pre Christian Era, when God had his own nation.
The courts (held in public outside the city gate) were united with the worship centred around the tabernacle or temple.
In the Christian Era, there is no one nation chosen by God.
Paul tells us plainly that we are to be in subjection to the superior authorities, that have been placed there BY GOD.
So when a crime, such as child sexual abuse, rape, murder etc should be reported to the superior authorities.
The superior authorities are God’s arrangement for dealing with crimes.
Sir, do you agree that child abuse is a crime?
If so, why do the WTBTS not report these crimes to the superior authorities?
I hope that this clarifies the point I was trying to make.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
So, all religions are true as humans are imperfect… But You seem to forget That David paid the price of his imperfections, his wives weee raped by Jéhovah himself (Read 2 Sam 12:11-12)!
To JaphetsHonor
All i can say is the same thing, why cant this apply to any other religion? “imperfect humans” argument. And you speak of david and Salomon, they did sin and the whole Israel suffered because of that, now days Jews arent considered to be Gods people anymore, what does that tell you about the governing body, dont let other people tell you what they think god is trying to tell you. Ive seen this firsthand in my family, their is only blind obedience, but go ahead, become a JW and try to disagree with anything, no matter how small, and you will be in a whole lot of trouble, you WILL realize that the love they preach is only conditional, dont disregard everything everyone here is telling yo, think about it, really think about it, John said, bring the evidence, you can find happy and loving people in ANY religion, try to look at a bigger picture any time you think about all of this. I wish you well
I strongly dislike the expression “Divided Household”, used
frequently by JWs. It’s usually applied where one married
partner is in the religion, but the other is not.
It implies disunity, a lack of love and understanding, of pulling
in opposite directions. I’m convinced it contributes in an
insidious way to bringing about these conditions, where they
didn’t exist before.
I’ve known several people in my former cong, who previously
were content with their partner, but became dissatisfied with
them. Some even wishing for a divorce from the “Unbeliever”
Cult jargon is designed to have an unsettling effect on the mind
and make us compliant.
When I left the religion, some elders urged my wife to leave me.
They claimed I would “Shipwreck her Faith” my wife reminded
them that she had taken Marriage Vows. We’ve had many happy
years together, outside that org. But it could have been our
marriage that ended up on the rocks.
@Japhets
Your replies reveal an emotional attachment to “people in the truth.” You’re more interested in defending them than learning the difference between truth vs. falsehood.
You’re not even a JW yet, but you’re already indoctrinated. That family peer pressure is strong stuff.
Calling WT “the truth” does not make it so. If “the truth” is not true, then it’s not really “the truth” after all.
The Bible based teachings are the Truth. Organizational policies are organic and ever changing. There is a difference.
Indeed, so why are people disfellowshipped for breaking the “ever changing” rules of the Watchtower?
Further, why are there so many changes if they are “spirit directed”?
Does God revel in not providing his children with accurate knowledge? By no means!
So why are they constantly changing their minds?
Please, please do your own independent research!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
People are disfellowshipped for breaking the Bible’s moral code. I’ve noticed that many of you have a problem with this particular rule. I can see how Satan would use your pride to question such an arrangement, dangerous times we live in.
Sir,
You have no facts to back up your assumptions, do you?
I did not break “the bible’s moral code”.
And yet so many in “good standing” have broken and continue to break the bible’s moral code by abusing children!
Please, do not assume to know why we have left the WTBTS.
I hope that the discussion you have had with us has helped you to understand why we are so concerned for children and women in the WTBTS.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Japhet.
People are df’d for breaking he bible Moral code? You mean like questioning the WT on its ever changing teachings? for not believing the 1914 debacle, for taking more than a “blood fraction” for joining a sports team, For going to another church or attending services at a family funeral or marriage if it is in another Church? For practicing Yoga? Or jsu flat out rejecting the WT lies that theyhave seen over all the years?
Are those the Moral codes you are referring to?
JaphetsHonor, if you are not a JW, then why when I click on your name, jw.org comes up?
I did not get kicked out of the Org. after 50 years as a baptized Witness. I won’t go to another meeting because the Watchtower lies and disfellowships anybody who proves their unBiblical doctrines wrong and dares to open up their mouths to tell about it. That is why I won’t support it anymore. It has nothing to do with not being able to live up their high standards.
If anything, the standards that Jehovah’s Witnesses have are the lowest standards any organization could have since they tolerate child abusers and wife abusers and even expect these people to go door to door. The only “standard” that the Watchtower expects of you is for you to fill out a time slip each and every month.
If you get your December 1, 1991 Watchtower bound volume and turn to page 7, it says “A religion that teaches lies cannot be true.”
Now, get your “You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth” book and turn to page 154 paragraph 7 and in the middle of that paragraph it says “Also, the Bible said that all these things would happen upon the generation that was alive in 1914.”
Explain to us how the Watchtower never lies. According to the Watchtower’s own words “a religion that teaches lies cannot be true.” Show us where in the Bible, it says in 1914 that that generation that was alive in 1914 would see Armageddon come. What about that generation? Are they dead? Then the Watchtower lied to us about that too. Even your Reasoning book says that under dates. Face it. They lie so they can’t be the “truth”.
Everything that the Watchtower preaches should be backed up by the Bible but almost nothing in the Watchtower is backed up by the Bible.
When the Watchtower makes a statement, look for words like, evidently, apparently, seemingly, so it seems, obviously. When the Society uses words like that, they are only guessing, which means they aren’t “spirit” directed like they claim by only flying by the seat of their pants.
Also, look for scriptural proof for any statement that doesn’t have scriptural backing. Look for ellipses to see what was left out of that scripture and last of all, read the context and even look up the scriptures in other Bibles. For instance, the New World Translation reads in Judges chapter 11, verse 40 that from year to year the daughters of Israel would go to give commendation to the daughter of Jephthah but in the King James published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society that the daughters of Israel went yearly to lament the daughter of Jephthah. The Society deliberately lied about what really happened to Jephthah’s daughter. She was made a burnt sacrifice to Jehovah and Jehovah accepted it.
That is the God you worship.
The truth that comes from God does not happen in one day. But gradually. Therefore adjustments are made gradually too. That’s proof that the governing body is guided by gos’s spirit. Otherwise do you réally think that you coul know everything about God after reading the Bible for the first time? The ajustment are needed after many reading, after God illuminated his people
Are you one of Jehovah’s Witnesses as well?
@BABY,
I hope Jehovah soon teaches his people how to handle child abuse properly, then, because at the moment I am feeling embarrassed here in Australia going door to door. The Governing Body has said it will not change anything, and the Royal Commission says something must change, too many victims are having their lives ruined.
For the sake of the victims, pray as hard as you can, BABY.
@Japhets
What you’re really saying about the WT is:
“We teach the Bible, but we’re hypocrites and don’t know what we’re talking about, that’s why our organization makes so many errors. Please excuse our mess.”
People who buy into that, want an idol to worship. That’s what the WT organization is, an idol. Just like Aaron’s golden calf.
Sacrifice to an idol, is sacrifice in vain.
If you want to follow Jesus, you must do it yourself, in person. Taking the lazy way out, expecting an organization to do it for you, is nothing more than the blind leading the blind. And we know where the Bible says they end up.
I am not surprised by any of this. They have no hope for the continuation of the family unit after death and the resurrection. No one will be married after the resurrection and the family unit ceases to exist. At least that is what I read in a couple of their books in recent decades. They always show pictures of families together smiling in paradise earth but the family unit ceases at death according to what they actually have taught in their publications. It is no wonder to me, therefore, that it is so easy to divide families in such an organization.
@D. Charles
As you say, those happy “pictures of families together smiling in paradise” are misleading and deceptive; they don’t match WT teaching. It’s a prime example of WT two faced hypocrisy.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.”
Said Jesus at Matthew 23:27 (NIV).
Growing up a JW for me was extremely difficult , but the Watchtower has changed since I have been there . It looks and sounds to me more “cultish” than it was when my parents joined ( 1973-1984) . As far as this article it is on the ball . Growing up I had anti social behavior, why did I act the way I did in my youth ? The cult stigma was why I was in school acted like a outcast with no friends because I was not allowed friendship with the world . Growing up in this sect haunts me this day .
JaphetHonor said : “People are disfellowshipped for breaking the Bible’s moral code…..”
What about those who are excommunicated as a result of their decision not to be part anymore of the JWs’ organization for conscience reasons and due to their awareness of the repeated manipulation they have suffered during decades sometimes, or at times to put an end to the repeated injustices they may have suffered from so-called sheperds. How do you know that every excommunicated JW is breaking the Bible’s moral code ? Are you as God living high in the heavens to see through the walls ?
James, Thank you for this very valid article.
When I see them standing in the town or outside the station beside the JW Org cart – oh so innocuously, I feel like shouting to anyone contemplating stopping “Stay away from these people! They represent an Organisation that can wreck your life”.
Years ago there was a lovely lady who was an on / off Bible Study. I remember several sisters and an Elder discussing her one evening after the Tuesday night Group and why they should now class her as a time waster.
“She just can’t bring herself to give up her mother, sister and friends, in order to commit to Jehovah!” they said sadly.
Several years later some of the sisters who were part of that conversation realised TTATT and one of them met the former Bible Study. When she told the lady that the Org was indeed a Cult and NOT “the Truth”, the poor lady was almost in tears. For years she had lived under a terrible guilt that she couldn’t bring herself to turn her back upon people she loved in order to become a JW, and she felt that because of this she must be a terrible person, unworthy of surviving Armageddon. So even though she wasn’t a baptised JW, the Org had still detrimentally affected this poor lady’s life and mental well-being.
When I look back after being free of this Org for many years, I am incredulous at the gall they have to expect people to cut ties with their nearest and dearest, who show them unconditional love, unlike the congregation, whose love bombing wears off once the unsuspecting Bible Study is baptised.
@JehapetsHonor,
I am a bit confused by your posts. Are you trying to convince yourself or the people on the site that JWs have “the Truth”, etc.?
I’ll make it easy for you. I would like to challenge you with a question I have asked many JWs. You don’t have to answer it to me at all. Just let it roll around in your head. This is a simple “Yes” or “No” question.
“If Jehovah (directly or through his Organization) ordered you to kill another person, or kill yourself, or let yourself or another person die, would you do it?”
If you answered…
1. “Yes” – This answer shows that you are a true example of “Listen, Obey, be Blessed” and are committed to serve Jehovah and the Organization. This, I would posit, is the ONLY correct answer if you are to remain a JW in good standing. This is also the same response required of adherents of many other religions who base their beliefs on “faith”. That fact should really frighten you.
If you answered…
2. “No” – This answer would likely qualify you as an apostate. However, I and many others on this site who answered likewise will not shun you.
However, if you answered with…
3. “It is a silly question…Jehovah and/or his organization would never ask me to do such a thing…” or something to the like. I would point out that Jehovah and his Organization have asked that of people in the past and present and that “Yes” was the response of countless faithful servants in the Bible (e.g. Abraham) and today (e.g. Blood Issue). If you are still stuck in equivocations and scripted answers, then you are not ready to commit. This may mean that you are having a struggle between what you’ve been taught to believe and your humanity. In which case, there is hope for you yet and you might want to do a bit more research and critical thinking.
@JaphetsHonor particularly:
Have you ever read the Transcript of the DOUGLAS WALSH trial? The WT maintains that you preach a “Truth”, even though you personally have doubts about it.
When you spend Hundreds of hours in “Field Service” convincing yourself and others of something you are not entirely convinced of Yourself.. and, then your doubts are confirmed by “New Light”…it is very difficult to trust that source of “Light” ever again! Especially, when man made doctrine leads to death dealing consequences.
Do you have a comment to make on the content of the trial?
@GEM, Japhet is still a “goat” being transformed by the Watchtower in “another sheep”! Leave him/her alone until he becomes a sheep and feel the power of Elders who hide behind letters and secret books from New York!
I was raised a jw by my controlling mother, while my father was not one. In reality if that young man had a chance to have a choice, he would of favored his father’s side. I always wonder why my Pop never stood up to my mom as he could see I hated every minute of it. Stupid made-up scenario.
Our new friend Japhets, who according to him is not a Jw, but in “truth” by being around people in “truth” but still armed with high classified information only elders can know, (which I find very strange because I grew up in this thing & was baptised at 13 but am not aware of elders studying apostate behavior), is convincing us how the GB can grossly be mistaken but still present the gross mistakes as ultimate truth from the holy spirit, and that is still “truth”. My question is, which is the “truth” to be followed, is it as dispensed from the GB that grossly makes mistakes?
I remember once, a zonal overseer visited our country and drew us a chart showing the flow of spiritual food(truth), from Jah-Jesus-holy spirit- bible- F&DS – us. So in this chart, where does the truth get distorted?
If it gets distorted by the implementers, why don’t they accept their mistakes like David & Solomon & others in the bible? instead blaming Jehovah for having misled them with some old light? So who fools who? Is it Jehovah fooling the GB or the GB fooling Jehovah? Or does the GB create some untruth & Jehovah refutes it & then provide his truth but through the same channel?
Very good point, justasking
Talking about a divided family, I was in the shopping mall a couple of weeks ago when a relative (my brother who is an active JW) whom I had not seen for over seven years came walking towards me and I was so surprised to see him there that I exclaimed “what are you doing here?”.
I am almost certain that if I did not say something to him he would have walked right on past me without saying a word as I am sure that he did initially recognize me .
All he could manage to say was “Here he is, I have got to keep ongoing” and that was that as he kept on going without even breaking his stride.
That was the first time I had set my eyes on him in over 7 years.
Talk about a “sword”, creating a division in my family.
The same also goes for my own mother as I have not set eyes on her for over seven years as well (though I have spoken to her briefly over the phone, six months ago) , since I was baptized on a bogus charge for not (accepting the “faithful slave” being appointed over all of Christ’s belongings back in 1919, after apparently being inspected by Jesus as to worthiness and faithfulness).
And JaphetsHonor, you want to talk about the “truth”?
There’s the truth for you.
The hypocrisy of the “JW organization” that stinks to high heaven, all the way up to our “Heavenly Father” who must be looking on all this with utter disappointment and disapproval of those who claim to represent him and his “love”. “For God is love”.
On my second last comment here I meant to say the word “disfellowshiped” and not “baptized”.
Parents have the responsibility to teach their children to do God’s will.
I would respectfully disagree with your statement and I think, if you are honest with yourself, you may also. You probably only agree with your own statement if it applies to your preferred religion and God. Substitute that for some other religion and God and I don’t think you would agree with what you said. What if the parents are Muslim? Jewish? Fundamentalist Evangelicals? Does your statement still hold?
We have about 7 billion people on the earth many of which think there is a God, know God’s will, are in the true religion, etc. with the same conviction as you (maybe even more). If this doesn’t scare you, I don’t know what to say.
I think a parent’s responsibility should be to teach their children critical thinking so they can make good decision on what to believe based on good reason and not to pass on non-sense to the next generation. Wouldn’t you agree?
Wonderfully said!
Says who?
Baby,
And pray tell, what do “you” consider to be “God’s” will?
after many years in the “truth” and getting out. I’m in my early twenties my family has left. And with all this communication skills that we develop when we where all witnesses at one point, i wonder what would be a good career to pursue with all this experience?? Anybody have any suggestions??
@cedars
@Jay I know several ex-witnesses who have made careers in sales and have done very well.
@Baby
“Parents have the responsibility to teach their children to do God’s will.
———
Hi Baby. I think you’re putting the cart before the horse. The first thing
that needs to be done, before teaching anyone about God’s will, is to
provide them with “Verifiable Proof” that an invisible, omniscient,
all loving God really exists. Good luck with that!
If there is such a God that knows everything, past, present, and
future, then our choice whether to respond to his will, or not.
is irrelevant as everything is already pre determined. The potter
makes some vessels for honourable use and some for a
dishonourable purpose . Free will is ruled out. Ro, 9: 16-21
Teaching children the undiluted truth about Gods will and his
character is especially difficult, as some of his dealings with
people spoken of in the the Bible, are so disturbing that it
could cause distress to children. Not to mention his future
plan to kill millions of children at Armageddon.
If one follows the WT method of teaching, the children will
be burdened with guilt and fear. If I had the chance again
to instruct my children, I would teach them critical thinking
skills, ( as suggested by Strong Haiku ). Plus the “Golden
Rule” Matt,7:12.
@ Jay,
I used to say sarcastically to my husband that if a JW doesn’t cut it in JW world, they should persue politics cause they have learnt the art of spin & are so good at believing it that it comes across as honest.
Joking aside, I would think that writing down a list of the things that you enjoy doing would be a good start to career seeking.
As did former President Dwight D. Eisenhower.
I’m actually thinking about pursuing a career in politics myself.
Haha I was thinking like social work or something politics sounds interesting anyways good luck to all of you in finding what makes you all happy peace out!
I think ‘Japhets Honor’ is a Bethelite working for the GB. I’m sure the GB keep heavy tabs on this site in particular.
“I think ‘Japhets Honor’ is a Bethelite working for the GB. I’m sure the GB keep heavy tabs on this site in particular.”
It’s part of their research to know the minds of apostates – so they can predict how we will act and print that in a magazine – so that the JW’s who visit the site can say that we are just like they say we are.
I must admit that particular comment was a new one to me but is as equally “odd” as the last JW’s I can remember meeting were.
@Jakeman.
Maybe “Japhet” himself is a GOVERNING BODY member! I am sure the GB member s even have their own serious doubts about the nonsense they publish.
Is it possible Japheth could be a GB member?
I wouldn’t be surprised if he/she is…
JW intellect.
If he is then they are doing the classic JW justification for lying claiming that lying is ok if it is done for “theocratcic” warfare.
Funny how the WT can justify anything that fits their goal.
The JW Org can come up with any agenda/opinion they want and then back it up with a scripture to prove their point. I am sure someone like Cedars or Anonymous with their impressive bible knowledge could put together a bizarre topic for a talk and fully back it up with scriptures, just like the Org does.
I hope this makes sense to everyone, but when I was in and reading from their publications, even if it didn’t ring true, I would look at the verses from the bible to back up what was in the article and it was like automatic pilot taking over, and I wouldn’t doubt it. I guess what I am trying to say is twisting the bible to suit their belief system is what they seem to do very well.
Actually there is such a funny article:
http://www.jwfiles.com/wt_ex_jw_corner/cats.htm
It’s interesting to see all the different viewpoints and anger/hate/ambivalence here based on this dudes take on the religion. I grew up a JW and always had issue with various dogmas associated that weighed heavily on my life and , in some ways , perhaps made my life more difficult.
What I’ve found though being married to an atheist Jew ( culturally Jewish) , and seeing how some ( not the majority ) of his family “shuns ” jewish people who marry non-Jewish people , made me realize that this sort of bias is not a singular trait of Jdubs. I think it’s their way of life and it’s all encompassing. It’s no different then someone not wanting to “hang out” with people who smoke weed or live a party lifestyle. I personally don’t give two shits what you do with YOUR life as long as what you do isn’t violent , directly hurting someone , or is between two consenting adults , I’ll hang out south stoners all the live long day, but I can also respect people that chose not to.
The “society ” isn’t what I would call evil. Sorry guys , I honestly don’t hold any hate or loathing for them. They disgruntle me at times with their bias and small minded thinking, but so does someone like Rush Limbaugh. Do I wanna hang out with society members and have a cup of tea with them? Not really , just like I wouldn’t with ole Rush’y. Difference is I also don’t wanna come at them with pitchforks cause I don’t see my family very often. I still love the f *ck outta my jdub family and I’ve accepted they live their lives one way and I live mine another. I don’t blame the society for tearing us apart, or want to protest all organized religions. Doing that makes you just as close minded IMO. I feel bad for ex-JW’s that lose their family but, let’s be honest, don’t a lot of non-JW’s lose their family for various non-religious reasons? Fights , disagreements , money. , drugs , lifestyle, you name it. So, just as your entitled to your lifestyle they are entitled to theirs ….free moral choice mofo’s. Can’t speak outta both sides of your mouth and pretend to be self rightous yourself hating on the haters. (Haters gonna hate , aint’ers gonna ain’t )
Peace out all y’all’s in whatever moral life ( or immoral) you chose to lead
Hi all!
I guess you could call me a “regular” on here now and for the benefit of other JWs on here, I was surprised by the amount of love shown on here not only to ex-JWs but also to current & active JWs like myself. The first thing that the WTS tells you (and that was drummed into me as a child) is that all apostates are the “evil slave class” whose only intention is to ‘beat their fellow slave class’ ie tear down their spiritual beliefs and try and make them as unhappy as they are. This is so untrue. Maybe the way that apostates went about things in the 70s & 80s promoted this idea as I remember being scared to death by apostates chasing me down the street screaming at me after a few meetings. Many online sites have this type of individual too, just spouting hate at ALL JWs.
Here I have found a big difference: most of the contributors on here don’t hate anybody at all (just as Jesus taught us: hate the wrong not the person), they have justifiable grievances against the WTS as an organisation and against the GB with some of their teachings, not the Bible’s. In fact, I’d go as so far as to say there is a definite family atmosphere in this community and a genuine desire to help others, especially if they are having doubts or looking for a way to leave the faith.
I have no desire to leave the faith as I am very happy with my friends within the cong and the organisation and don’t suffer fools nor hypocrites gladly. I am not in agreement with all the WTS policies (note I use the word “policies” not “teachings”) such as their stance on child abuse nor the extremes they go to in disfellowshipping. Jesus preached love and compassion, not an eagerness to jump on someone the moment they didn’t conform to his standards. Look how he didn’t even treat Judas Iscariot any differently when he knew he was going to betray him (otherwise the apostles would have known who it was who was going to do the dirty deed).
Back to my point: I find the people on here very logical, coherent and friendly. Just look at the article on human kindness if you’re looking for proof that JWs don’t have the monopoly on kindness, especially if we are talking about Unconditional kindness/love. Yes, some folks can come across as being a bit harsh on here but I’d like to give them the benefit of the doubt and put it down to their awful personal experiences within the organisation.
I sent an email today to Lloyd (Cedars) but I’m not sure if he gets them as I’ve yet to receive a reply (the poor chap must get hundreds) so I thought I’d explain my idea that might help (hopefully) some with the shunning issue…
The WTS pin everything on the individual’s baptism: that’s the ultimate goal to get a bonafide JW convert. However, that’s not really the important step. That would be the one before: dedicating one’s life to Jehovah God. The baptism is only a public symbol that one has made that promise to God. Bear with me as you’ll see where I’m going with this! :)
In certain cases though, individuals asked to be baptised AGAIN claiming that their first baptism was invalid: maybe they were pressured into it, were too young to really understand what they were doing etc so they asked to be baptised again saying that they since have made a proper dedication or promise to God.
Now MY thought is, why can’t that same reasoning be used INVERSELY? If someone no longer agrees with the WTS policy or simply wants to leave the org due to not wanting to fulfil their vow to God, surely that is between them and Jehovah? So when called before the elders (there’s a lot of uncaring, judgmental, vindictive & letter-of-the-law ones out there) why not just state that your baptism was invalid and that you never really were a JW? That will obviously meet with a group “WHAAAAAT?” to which you could reply: “Yes, I only got baptised to please my parents, be like my friends [insert invalid reason here] which means you can’t disfellowship me as I’m not actually a witness. I’m sorry I lied but heh, I AM a worldly person according to you!”
Now if you’re thinking that AJ is encouraging the telling of porkies, let me remind you that there are numerous Bible accounts of individuals in good standing who did so to protect their families or themselves. You’re trying to protect the relationship with your family so I see the logic.
It’s just a thought. It may have been tried before even but it’s something that came to me last night so I thought I’d share.
As Excelsior says: Peace be with you!
@Average Joe, I have thought the same thing about an invalid baptism too but I have a feeling it won’t go over with the Governing Body too well because the thing the Governing Body desires is to keep any “apostates” quiet so they can’t start talking about why the aren’t one of Jehovah’s Witnesses anymore and the only way to keep anybody who doesn’t want to be a Witness anymore is to make sure they are shunned.
The Society is really clamping down on anybody now who even hints that they question the Society’s teachings by even marking “studies”, i.e. people who haven’t even gotten baptized but raise questions during a study. So, you can be shunned without even being baptized now days.
I was recently being disfellowed because I choose to stay and support my girlfriend who is carrying my child, The elder asked me to choose between my soon to be child and Jehovah.
I was a pioneer in our congregation here in manila.
I think you were publically shunned bcause you had sex outside of marital vows
To show you what these MD PILLS will do to you listen.A black brother keeps calling on me and I have told him everytyhing about failed dates,United Nations,child molestation, he still don’t hear me. Finally I asked him this question. “If the governing body wrote you a letter and told you that on the first day of December that he would turn into a white brother” His reply? I cannot wait until the first of December. Case closed. No hope. MD PILLS have done him in.
When you apply for a job the employer wants you to fill in an application concerning your work history and a few things about you. But do you notice the WT is ashamed for people to know their history.They have even taken older publications outta the library at all kingdom halls. If I had their sorry history I would hide my history too. You can no longer order from their website anything before the year 1970. They are so ashamed for new ones to find it out. As for the JWS that are in it they do not care because the flock has been fed enough MD PILLS that it wont hurt them. A mind is a sad thing to lose.
This may be totally way off base, and if it is..i appologize before hand.
I was raised JW. Was 3rd generation JW. Grew up in a typical dysfunctional home. Birth mother wished i had died at birth ( see, she hated that i was born female). Birth father ruled with iron fist ( broken bones included). Two older birth brothers who sexually molested from around age 3 to around age 14.
Repressed memories flooded me yrs later while newly married. The “elders” refused to have a face to face meeting with me. Instead, had a phone meeting. I was told that because i did not have 2-3 witnesses to the “supposed molestation”, that i was branded a liar because 1). I did not scream, 2). I did not report it “while it was occuring”, and 3). I could not produce 2-3 witnesses of “supposed abuses”. One birth brother went on to become an elder. The other…well…i keep praying he dies before he harms yet another innocent.
After yrs of failed attempts at suicide, i moved on. Worked my own way through a degree in nursing.
I have come to this mindset.
1). Victims of abuse, any kind of abuse..are the VICTIMS.
2). Abusers never have “witnesses”, unless they are fellow abusers.
3). Any form of society that goes against logic and justice are, they themselves, party to those abuses. Supporting and defending is condoning…period !!!
4). Emotional and mental abuse are abuses. Aiding abusers by supporting, defending, and condoning abuses causes further abuses on the victim in the form of mental/emotional abuse.
5). Rape can be by any body digit/part OR foreign object. The fact that a penis was not used as the offending object does not mean rape has not occured.
The simple fact that any religion that holds onto a flawed edict that is void of even the simplest of logic, refuses to accept science as proof (as in DNA or rape exams), and holds onto a flawed notion that all sinners make sure they have witnesses to their crimes…goes against my belief that YHWH is a loving God that would NEVER be that unjust.
I refuse to believe or accept that evil doers should go without paying for their sins.
I refuse to believe that YHWH would choose to condem the victims because evildoers dont make witnesses.
I, instead, hold onto my faith in YHWH, that He sees all, that He reads the hearts of peoples, that He will punish those guilty of sin, as well as those ho supported, defended, and condoned those sins.
I hate the evil i see in humans !!!
I choose to keep my birds
Isnt it sad, so sad…that animals treat their young better than do humans ???
I wonder if YHWH vomits very time He looks down on humans ???
Personally, i wish YHWH would just slaughter the entire human race and start over..(i have as yet to meet a single human who has any trace of heart..)…but doing this wouldnt answer that age old query…Gods right to theocracy.
Humans are such vile loathsum creatures..worse than cockroaches !!!
I can still remember the threats made to me over the years by elders making sure i kept my mouth shut, because going public brings disgrace to God and to the JWs.
I was publically shunned and labeled a liar, one of the evil slave when i did …finally..go to the police. I even passed 3 polygrath tests with flying colours.
I wrote a book, and in that book i detailed the abuses i suffered at the hands of my birth family and all those elders in the WT. It was cathartic.
The fact that organized religion in general…goes to such extreams to suppoer, defend, and condone these abusers…to my way of thinking, makes them all share in each others sins.
The human race is truly revolting !!!
Sorry for the typos…its really hard typing on phones
@Summer. There were an awful lot of us who were abused because of this religion, either by the elders, or our spouses or our parents but we don’t condemn the entire human race because of it. I have known an awful lot of very good and nice people, once I stopped thinking that “worldly” people were bad.
I believe that some of the meanest and most judgmental people are the most religious. They seem to think that believing in God makes them superior and it’s the Bible that tells them that. Have you ever thought it that way?
Really religious people think that people who don’t believe in God are evil and either going to die at Armageddon or go to hell when they die because they get that from the Bible.
The reason I think they are the most evil is because of their arrogance. To be arrogant and self-righteous and judgmental is bad, even according to Bible standards.
People are afraid to admit publicly that they don’t believe in God because they will be labeled but I think there are an awful lot of really nice people in the world and they wouldn’t hurt a fly and they don’t even believe in God. We just wouldn’t know it because they are afraid to say so publicly. I believe the meanest people are the most religious. That is my personal opinion from my personal experience.
I feel you are right in that people who harbor abusers are evil and deserving of destruction and that includes the Watchtower. I have to go along with that.
The Watchtower is complicit in hiding pedophiles and abusers. They are evil and anybody or any religion that hides abuse and abusers are evil. They could never be of a perfect God. They are pretenders out to fleece the flock and make a living off of their hard work, the same as any other religion.
All of us commenting here who were a part of it, didn’t know of the abuse and so we can’t be held responsible for it but once we knew of it, then yes, we would have been complicit and should be held responsible if we didn’t extradite ourselves from the religion.
I have to agree with you there but most of the rank and file don’t know. But, you are right, I think the majority would still stay with the religion anyway, once they know, just as most Catholics stayed with the religion once they knew of the abuse. It is a “form” of Godly devotion just as the Bible says but it depends on whether or not they know the real truth about the truth or not.
The real truth is being withheld from the rank and file because they are brainwashed into being afraid to research their own religion. They are being brainwashed into thinking that anything that talks bad about their religion is demonic. They are to be pitied because they don’t realize they are wasting their lives on lies.
They shouldn’t be condemned as evil when they are victims of a very clever mind-controlling cult.
Straight out of college..i joined the UN medical corps. It afforded me the chance to travel the world to render medical aide to third world countries. In those travels, i learned the answer to mankinds true nature. I learned the true level of mankinds inhumanity to man.
The depth and level that mankind has sunk into is…well…i still hold onto my belief that YHWH should cull the entire human race. Satan truly is taking over this world.
Just in the last 8-10 yrs..it has sunk o depths that even i find astonishing…and that is truly saying something !!!
The entire human race is so imperfect and so sinful, that i personally dont see any positives in trying to save it.
And what makes matters worse…those who choose to stick their heads in the proverbial sand; “if i dont see it, if i dont know about it…then it not true…its not real…its not happening”
I will grant you that it is possible to “not be in the know”, and that not knowing is not partaking in the sin. But i put to you this..looking at the “big picture”, looking at mankind world wide in general terms, there is littl to no redeeming qualities, the way i see things, what i have seen with my own two eyes.
There is NO man who is free of sin…no man at all.
And religion, organized or not, is not the deciding factor of who shall be held blameless when YHWHs holy day of retribution starts.
Each of us, living and dead, will have to answer to YHWH on that day.
No man is blameless…for no man is perfect. Religion will not be a saving grace. No man can hide from YHWH. Every man will meet his maker in the end.
For my part…im not long for this or any other world. I personally find no redeeming virtue in mankind. Organized religion is just a bandaide..it poses no real tangable value. It only hides the problem “in the name of religion”
I personally do not wish to live in paradise…for ever. This life was so cruel, so heinious, so tortuous on so mamy levels, that i do not wish to live. Life is void of any intrinsic value. I see only evil.
Mankind is morally, ethically, and religiously BANKRUPT!!!
Its sad, really.
Humans have the higher functioning brain of all living things on earth. And yet mankind keeps sinking to new levels of depravity every day.
Sad
So wasteful
So sad
Summer, I agree that moral depravity is widespread, and it sounds like you’ve seen more of that than many of us here, but I hope you can find a way to look for the little pockets of good that do exist around the world. There are clusters of kind, well-intentioned people out there. I believe this site is one of them.
I’m not naïve enough to think I could present you with a fresh perspective that you haven’t already thought of yourself, but the hopelessness in your comment is heartbreaking.
Don’t give up. Life can be phenomenally difficult sometimes, but there can also be beauty and love in it (although it may take some digging to get to it).
By the way, I’m not someone who is coasting through life telling someone who is having trouble to pull yourself up by your bootstraps. As someone who deals with fairly severe levels of anguish on occasion, I know how uncomfortable receiving uninformed advice can be. I’m just trying to survive, though. Picking up a little love along the way from folks who don’t mind sparing some.
To benefit from some input from the good people here, please come over and jump into a discussion on a newer post so everyone will see your comment.
Spot on with this write-up, I absolutely
believe that this website needs a lot more attention. I’ll probably be back again to see more, thanks for the information!
I am hoping someone will see this and give me some help/guidance/advice.
My son who is df’d and re married has a daughter to his ex wife. My granddaughter is 7 years old and mother has her majority of the time. She lives 7 hours away and my granddaughter goes to school in that town. There is a custody battle about to ensue because my son is not getting to see his daughter very often although they have joint custody. We have noticed, recently a marked change in our little girl. She is becoming withdrawn from her daddy and avoiding contact with him. Her mother took her to the assembly recently but her two step brothers were not permitted to go by their father. He refuses to let his sons be brought up as witnesses but because my son is not on hand to stop her taking his daughter, she is being influenced by the witness family. When she is with us my son and his lovely wife encourage her to have friends, play and do holiday stuff. When she is ‘at home’ she is not allowed contact outside of school with her friends and can only have witness friends. We are terrified she is being influenced to shun us and is being groomed for baptism. Her great uncle who is an elder in ‘my’ cong. has already told us that once she is baptised she will be told she can have no contact with her daddy. I am at my wits end because we live so far away. can anyone help me please?