Royal Commission findings: Governing Body member Geoffrey Jackson “evasive and unhelpful”
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The Royal Commission was far from impressed with Geoffrey Jackson's evidence

The Royal Commission was far from impressed with Geoffrey Jackson’s evidence

On the eighth and final day of the Royal Commission inquiry, something very rare and significant took place.

Watchtower Governing Body member Geoffrey Jackson took the stand to publicly answer questions about some of the most secretive and carefully-guarded aspects of Watchtower policy: the way in which Jehovah’s Witnesses deal with internal accusations of child abuse.

It wasn’t easy to get him there.

Jackson’s comments on the day that he was “happy to testify” seem rather incongruous with the titanic struggle of previous Watchtower officials to keep him off the stand, to the point of even seemingly attempting  outright deceit as to Jackson’s role in the organization.

Nonetheless, on Day 8 Geoffrey Jackson took the stand via video link to explain and defend the policies he and his fellow six Governing Body members enforce upon Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide.

In some respects, Jackson put on a better show than many of the elders. He didn’t disintegrate into a shamefaced mess, for example, or give an account of an investigation that was subsequently contradicted by his own notes taken at the time.

Yet his testimony was still disastrous for Watchtower, as the newly-released Submission of the Senior Counsel Assisting demonstrates.

One of the infuriating things about Jackson’s testimony was how often he simply ducked the questions put to him. The more incisive the question, and the more potentially damning the answer, the harder the swerve he employed.

Some observers expressed disappointment at the time, feeling that Jackson had successfully used this tactic to pull the wool over the Commissions’ eyes.

If this was your fear, I have some good news for you.

The report explicitly calls him out on this tactic, documenting every moment that he used it. Here is just one example, taken from the hearing’s discussion of the two-witness rule.

332  Mr Jackson was asked to what extent the Jehovah’s Witness organisation was bound by the Scriptures to maintain and apply the two‐witness rule. He did not respond to the question, instead telling the Royal Commission that he ‘thought that that had already been established in the hearings, but, if not, certainly that is something that we need to follow up.”

Indeed, it became clear as the hearings went on that Jackson, having spent his life around people who are forbidden to question him on pain of shunning, was ill-equipped to face down a room of skilled legal professionals over whom he had no leverage.

Even in the matter of scriptural debate, an area in which you would assume Jackson would be able to hold his own, the Commission found him dreadfully wanting.

For example, Jackson stated emphatically that women could never be elders or take a role in the judgment seat of Watchtower’s judicial process. He justified this statement by stating that women had never had the role of judges in the bible. He was asked a number of times about this, and confirmed it again and again. The bible, he assured the ARC, mentions no female judges.

It would appear that the Royal Commission know their bible better than a member of the Governing Body

342  It should be noted by the Royal Commission that, in his statement, Mr Jackson referred only to those books of the Old Testament in which men are described as judges, and did not refer to Judges 4:4‐5 which tells of the female judge, Deborah. Specifically, the verses report that Deborah, ‘a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time’ and that the ‘Israelites would go up to her for judgment’. Since a woman judge was apparently accepted in the Old Testament, it is not apparent why women should not be judges of ‘Christian’ guilt or innocence in the Jehovah’s Witness organisation.

Geoffrey Jackson seemed wrong-footed by the ability of Angus Stewart and others to engage with him in scriptural debate

Geoffrey Jackson seemed wrong-footed by the ability of Angus Stewart and others to engage with him in scriptural debate

 

For another example of Jackson’s apparent ignorance of the scriptures, take the two witness rule discussion. The cornerstone scriptures used by Watchtower to justify this rule are Deuteronomy 19:15, where the mosaic law states that two witnesses are required to establish guilt, and Matthew 18:16 where Jesus appears to re-affirm this rule.

However, it quickly became apparent that the Watchtower appears to have taken these scriptures out of context. It was put to Jackson that Deuteronomy 22:23‐27 appears to specifically indicate a situation where a woman is sexually assaulted in a field (with her being the only witness) and the attacker is nonetheless found guilty on the basis of her testimony alone. Thus, it was presented to Jackson that the two witness rule as stated in Deuteronomy and referred to in the New Testament specifically allowed exceptions in the case of offenses such as sexual assault.

As recorded in the Submission:

328…It was put to Mr Jackson, and he accepted, that that Scripture contemplates a case where there are no witnesses to the rape other than the woman herself. It was also put to Mr Jackson, and he agreed, that only one witness was sufficient, in those circumstances, for the man to be put to death.

It might have appeared as though Jackson, caught out by this unexpected scriptural proficiency from the ARC, may have been contemplating a change in the rule. However, after the hearings, Jackson submitted a bizarre backtrack via written submission, where he stated that this scripture was not discussing finding the man guilty, but deciding if the woman was guilty or not of complicity in her own rape.

On this point, Senior Counsel’s report is extremely telling.

330…Mr Jackson did not seek to explain the reason for the difference between his oral and written evidence as to context of Deuteronomy 22:23‐ 27.

331  It is submitted that there is little utility in attempting to resolve the conflict between Mr Jackson’s oral and his subsequent written evidence on the subject of the relevance of Deuteronomy 22:23‐27 to the flexibility of the two‐witness rule. However, it is open to the Royal Commission to note the difficulty experienced by even a member of the Governing Body in arriving at an interpretation of Deuteronomy 22:23‐27 which renders it irrelevant to the application of the two‐witness rule.

As far as I can see, that’s lawyer speak for: “There is just no reasoning with this man.”

Summing up Jackson’s testimony on this subject, Senior Counsel states: (bold is mine)

336  It is submitted that Mr Jackson was evasive and unhelpful in assisting the Royal Commission to understand whether there is scope for interpretation of the two‐witness rule such that would allow for action to be taken in circumstances where there is only one direct witness to an incident of child sexual abuse.

More pressure was piled upon Jackson when he was asked if he was familiar with the testimony of the abuse survivors, whose firsthand accounts of terrible experiences at the hands of Watchtower seemingly flew in the face of many of his statements about how effective and caring the Organization’s polices were.

Jackson responded that he had been busy caring for his dying father (a tactic he shamelessly used on multiple occasions to try and kill off questions he didn’t like) and so no, he had not had time to read or listen to those testimonies. Yet he assured the commission he cared deeply for these survivors and had great empathy for them. He agreed that their perspectives on Watchtower policy would be invaluable.

However, as the hearings progressed, it became clear through Jackson’s own words that he had listened to every piece of testimony from the elders who had appeared. It seems rather convenient that Jackson had all the time in the world to keep track of what the elders had said, but not enough time to take in what the victims had reported.

This did not go unnoticed by Senior Council either.

450…Mr Jackson accordingly failed to live by the principle that he said he regarded as important, namely that he should have a good understanding of the perspective of a survivor of abuse, and his stated empathy with BCG was hollow.

F65 Mr Jackon’s failure to have read or be familiar with the testimony of the survivor witnesses yet to have read or otherwise familiarised himself with the testimony of Jehovah’s Witness witnesses belies his stated empathy for the survivors and his stated recognition of the importance of their perspectives.

So to summarise Senior Counsel finds that:

  • Geoffrey Jackson was “evasive and unhelpful” in addressing key areas of concern around his organization’s handling of child abuse.
  • That his claims of empathy and concern for victims of child abuse in the JW organization are directly contradicted by his actions.
  • That the scriptural arguments he made in favor of Watchtower’s version of the two-witness rule, and of male-only elders, relied upon taking some scriptures out of context and utterly ignoring others. (The question as to whether or not this was a result of Jackson being deceitful or simply being a poor scholar is not addressed in the report.)

The report actually goes into a lot more detail as to Jackson’s failings, especially in the discussion of shunning, but we don’t have space to cover them here.

However, I would ask any Jehovah’s Witness who is visiting this page, either because you are having doubts, or because you are seeking the truth about the rumors you’ve heard about how Watchtower treats child abuse, to review the videos of Jackson’s testimony on YouTube and the transcripts on the Royal Commission Website.

Then ask yourself…

  • Did Jackson’s answers on the questions of shunning, on the role of the Governing Body being the only approved channel of God, and many other aspects of doctrine match what you hear from Watchtower publications and talks?
  • Did Jackson’s protestations that the areas being discussed “were not his field,” and that he would have no knowledge of those subjects, match what you understand to be the role of the Governing Body?
  • Did this strike you as the testimony of a humble, kind and knowledgeable man to whom a loving God would entrust the safety of his little ones and who was seeking their welfare as a top priority? Or rather, did you see a man who appeared to have other priorities when giving his testimony?

 

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143 Responses to Royal Commission findings: Governing Body member Geoffrey Jackson “evasive and unhelpful”

  1. Sarah says:

    The GB has not researched the ‘two witness’ rule very well. Evidence can also be used as a ‘witness’. Jesus stated that his works were testimony that he was the son of God. John 5:36. In that chapter Jesus even alluded to the ‘two witness’ rule and submitted his works as testimony. Therefore evidence is to be taken into account when judging, even if you do not have any eye witnesses.
    With regard to child abuse Romans 13 states categorically that the government is God’s minister to deal with crimes. The Christian congregation is not authorised to deal with crimes and should not do so. The government has the ability to find the evidence which elders do not.
    The dire lack of wisdom in understanding these basic Bible teachings has led the GB and the ones who have been misled into serious trouble.

    • Covert Fade says:

      On the point about God’s minister dealing with crimes, as per Romans 13, I think a lot of the problem is that the Watchtower originally thought of child abuse as a sexual sin and not a crime. To them, it was on the same level moral level as, say, a couple of consenting, non-married adults having sex.

      It’s only recently that they’ve been forced to alter the approach to accommodate the fact that all civilised societies prosecute child abuse under criminal law, but because the process was constructed on a flawed foundation, it simply can’t be adapted to serve well in the context of this specific offence.

    • Robert67 says:

      The only way that would apply to the gb is if they were subjects of Jesus heeding the words of Matthew 17:5, but the gb have made it clear that they, and they alone, call the shots in every humans relationship with God.

    • Caltanzee says:

      Well said Sarah: you summed it up nicely in a nutshell, so to speak..or as they say you hit the nail right on the head.

    • Meredith J says:

      Funny, the GB were supposed to be the be and end all of research and yet they let this one slip. Maybe more to it. Well said Sarah.

  2. Rowland Nelken says:

    We can only hope that any governmental action as a result of this report will force the JW bosses to change their revolting ways.

  3. Chiafade says:

    For active witnesses this aspect of the investigation should be at best disconcerting. Here you have one of the popes being openly and brazenly uncooperative with the superior authorities. His inability to answer simple and direct questions should tell a person all they need to know about the man.

    “I haven’t heard her testimony sorry”
    Why?
    “I was taking care if my sick father”

    Yet on the other side of his mouth he starts referencing the testimony of the elders prior to him. He had plenty of time to listen to their testimony. He MADE time to listen to theirs because what they say has a direct effect on the precious organization. This was and is his and the rest of the gb priority. Not people. People are cannon fodder for the organization.

    If he lied on the stand they have NO compunction lying to YOU JWs. It’s something that is so frustrating when reasoning on this point with the witnesses. I showed a witness his testimony. The response? : “I thought he did a good job”. There is no reasoning with an indoctrinated mind. I have no doubt that this has stumbled many though. Yes they’ll be considered weak and all but they have several legitimate reasons to be stumbled and to doubt this org and the deceitful men running it.

    • JBob says:

      Lies are allowed when facing/confronting “the enemy (them)” versus us. Lies, or withholding details (facts), are also okay under the ruse of progressive truth–new light, because “theocracy” rules–it’s for the greater benefit of the conclave. It’s also okay that the inspired but mistaken leaders lied and told millions (and continue to taunt “this generation”) with the lie they may never see death in “this system.”

      But, remember, they haven’t been appointed over all belongings just yet…so, how can you hold them to this ridiculously “high standard” @Chiafade? 🙂

  4. redpilltwice says:

    Thank you for this incredible story Covert Fade, and no more beating around the bush mr. Jackson! I was disappointed too at the time of his misleading testimony, but this was worth waiting for! Yes, he was “hand[ed] over to local courts”, just like the elders involved, but where was “the spirit of [the] Father that [would speak through him]”? (Matth. 10:16-20) Hmm…

  5. Searcher says:

    When I first saw Jackson’s testimony video, I found him to be pleasant, cooperative, and basically answering the questions to his best ability. That was on the surface. After watching it again, I did see and hear what Coverfade and the ARC saw and heard. A dodging, evasive, and squirming liar that did all he could to hide the fact that the WTS is guilty of not protecting these children and preventing further abuse. (I guess that the ARC is trained and experienced in seeing this behavior and I am not.) He knows that the WTS has been caught! He was doing a ‘tap dance’, so that he, the GB, and WTS will have no responsibility in this matter. The key word is RESPONSIBILITY! I have said in a previous post: The GB, WTS leadership, the elders, and hardened JW’s have no concept of responsibility in matters that they have caused or fostered by their twisted policy. They feel that the responsibility lies with the bible and freely quote the bible out of context to support their positions. As we all have experienced, elders and WTS leaders do a ‘hop-scotch’ through the scriptures to build a collage (or montage) of scriptures out of context, and then present it to you as if it were actually written that way. They also do the same to evade responsibility for their policies and actions. Jackson’s testimony performance on the stand shows this behavior most blatantly, except this time it didn’t fool the ARC. He got caught and the WTS got caught!

    I hope this is another nail in the coffin for a destructive cult that needs to be removed from this earth.

    • Harland Edward Huxley says:

      I view the ARC and JW broadcasting as a blessing and gift from our Father. He has made a provision for all who, would follow Him before man, to see and hear from the mouths of these men, thier blatant and total disregard for his word, direction, or the example that Jesus set before us.

  6. Doc Obvious says:

    Every Child Sex Abuse case has more than 2 witnesses. I was told by the Watchtower that every action we do on earth is watched by God, Jesus, and a myriad of angels. So, that means that there millions and millions of witnesses. More than enough to satisfy the 2 witness rule. Also, does the 2 witness rule harmonize with loving your neighbor? Absolutely not.

    • Thinker says:

      And then there are occasions when the powers that be are quite happy to have “two witnesses” to a supposed sin, even if it has been established that those “two” had been drinking heavily (they’ll just dismiss that little fact), even if twelve sober eye witnesses testify to the innocence of the accused. It is like a prosecutor in a court of law that has prejudged a person as being guilty and they have the power to dismiss any evidence brought to the contrary. The judicial committee holds the power.
      I saw it first hand. Thankfully, most of those twelve sober witnesses have disassociated or faded. They are disgusted, as am I.

  7. Ruthlee says:

    Just ONE child. Just one! If they would acknowledge and apologise for just ONE damaged life instead of stubbornly upholding a misapplied ruling maybe just maybe we would believe they are gods channel(I’m kidding) But the only faith I have with them now is that they will never acknowledge their folly and wrongdoing so will lose all credibility. I have complete faith now in their arrogance moral disreguard for what is right and failure to acknowledge a higher power who they WILL have a reckoning with. Rather they in their shoes than me. ruthlee

  8. Scrubmaster says:

    I like saying this over and over again. Of course the abuses cases and handling is something the Org failed tremendously on. However, when Senior Counsel ask Jackson is the GB the only soul channel, or spokes person for God on earth? And Jackson said that would be a presumptuous statement to make. Any JW should have played that over and over again to let it sync in. My mouth fell open when I heard the response to this question alone. Because this statement alone is HUGE. Because that is not what is taught, and if a regular JW would have made this statement in public, there would have been a committee meeting formed right then and there and the person would have been label an apostate.

    • Janice Gilbert says:

      It is very hard to talk with and reason with active witnesses. I tried to show Jehovah’s friends in Facebook the videos of the hearing and an article about it and I was told that it was apostate info and shouldn’t be read and that it was from the demons. Ridiculous! So I befriended them and want nothing to do with them.

    • Eric Arthur Blair says:

      Yes, much like Gerrit Losch’s astounding signed testimony that he “does not answer to Watchtower.” Imagine if I used that as my defence at the Kingdom Hall?

      Geoffrey Jackson even put his hand on his own 2013 revision of the NWT and swore to tell the truth, the WHOLE, truth and NOTHING BUT the truth, before embarking on his misleading and deceptive crusade. As if this wasn’t enough, you would think a man who considers himself to be appointed by Christ to head a religion they call “THE TRUTH” would have enough reason to be honest, and have nothing to hide. But then who am I to judge, after all, that’s not my field……

      http://thinkingwitnesses.org/i-do-not-answer-to-watchtower/

    • redpilltwice says:

      When it’s theocratic warfare in front of worldly “gentiles” such as Angus Stewart, I guess it’s allowed. Nevertheless, Jackson was a coward, because he could have made THE statement of statements against the unbelieving world, something Rutherfordian style…know what I mean?

  9. Will says:

    Jackson claiming that it was not his “area of expertise” was the most troubling. This guy claims he was appointed by god as part of a governing body to oversee “truth” and make sure literature and talks are given to make sure everyone remains in god’s love and now when asked a question, it’s not his area of expertise. I was floored when he said that, but like was mentioned before, no matter what is shown to devout Witnesses, they will jump to the governing body’s defense. Very sad, but I wish this had more attention. Great job reporting!!!

  10. Average Joe says:

    He was lying through his teeth on many occasions and in my opinion, should have been obliged to show up in person, instead of being surrounded by legal counsel and people helping him out.
    As a professed brother of Christ, his conduct was shocking as Jesus never told a lie when confronted with hard truths. Been part of a “Governing Body” should give the average individual an idea that he is more than a translator; I think it has something to do with “governing”!

    Angus was amaaaaazing. I loved the way he used the NWT Bible with flawless logic and NWT cross references to “help” Jackson to see that the WTS do indeed promote corporal punishment.

    By the way, I’ve not had any responses to my emails to Lloyd on the “contact” address so could someone on the admin team please confirm that they are being received? Thanks.

    • Idontknowhatodo says:

      Average Joe… the powers that be definitely served up the local elders in Australia on a proverbial plate didnt they? They were unprepared and sounded frankly pathetic…its very refreshing to read your comments on here…I just wish there were some elders in my congregation like you….it is sad but the elders served up at the ARC were all too familiar to me… watch your back AJ…. they will come for you in the end…thank you for all your comments.

      • Average Joe says:

        @Idontknowwhatodo
        You’re welcome and thanks for your kind words. I’ve always tried to put my interest in others first as strong friendships make for strong congregations. I enjoy meeting with my spiritual brothers & sisters both for spiritual and social fellowship but it is sad how you need to watch your back.
        It’s the easiest thing in the world to show love & kindness and not be judgmental so I don’t see why some people, especially elders find it so hard. There are quite a few elders & servants that feel the same as I do on the WTS fiasco at the ARC hearings. Any honest-hearted individual can see the lies and mistakes in the organisation and it begs the imagination as to why the GB can’t just admit their mistakes and make a profound, sincere apology.
        We can only do our bit in the congs to make sure such terrible things never happen and if they ever did, to place the matter straight into the authorities hands.
        Unfortunately too, there are many power-hungry elders who abuse their position but as I still believe in God (in the minority on this site I think!) I trust he will sort out these rogue representatives of his.
        Chin up mate and just make sure to surround yourself with like-minded individuals; that helps you weather through any rough patches with some of the idiotic, totalitarian attitudes you get in the congs.

  11. Average Joe says:

    Scrub the above request. My email is working perfectly. Thanks.

  12. Simon Kestral says:

    I emailed the commission to explain:

    a) Judges 4:4-5 which tells of the female judge, Deborah

    b) The relevance of Deuteronomy 22:23-27 to the flexibility of the two-witness rule

    I’m glad the commission understands those two important points. It’s astounding that WT gets them so wrong, while claiming to be educators of Bible truth.

    But that’s what happens when men run ahead of Jesus and falsely claim the title “faithful and discreet slave” for themselves. It’s a big lie that voids their associated claim of authority. When you realize that, you know you can’t trust anything else they say.

    • Scrubmaster says:

      Simon – I wonder how the Society always over looks this scripture in Judges about women not being Judges. Even at one point Barak telling Deborah, if she goes with him, he will go. Sounds like Barak was following her lead to me. Deborah even told Barak when to go to battle vs 14 ” Rise up for this is the day…….” It is not just one or two verse, but a whole account about Deborah.

      • Free Thinker says:

        Guys,

        how about this:

        Romans 16:1 calls Phoebe – a woman – a “diákonos” – hence, in JW.ORG-lingo, a “Ministerial Servant”. Some translations have “Deaconess”, but no – the Greek has the male “diákonos” (not “diákonē”). Yet another blow to the JW.ORG’s pompous and conceited “We know it all, and we know it BEST!”-claim.

        • Free Thinker says:

          Forgot to mention the prophetess Hulda, see 2 Kings 22 and 2 Chron 34, who was divinely authorized to even teach anointed priests. Bible knowledge, O gloriously ignorant GB – ubi es?

        • Scrubmaster says:

          @Free Thinker – thanks!!! So how I never knew that one was in the Bible and Paul is the one calling her a “Deacon” – wow – eye opening.

          • Themirror says:

            Though the NWT horribly obscures it through translation Rom 16:7 mentions a woman APOSTLE by the name of Junia.

    • Searcher says:

      You are very correct in your point! Jackson was disgusting when he would use the evasion tactic, “That’s not my area.” Yeah right! He is a translator and should know the bible scriptures backwards and forwards. The Watchtower had articles proclaiming Deborah in Judges. He claimed no judges in the bible were women? Get real! He knew it all the time. He was just holding the line for a failed policy and not taking any responsibility as a WTS leader.

      The GB has a philosophy, “Do what I say and not what I do.” and “The rules we devise will only apply to you, and only when convenient.” This is to protect their power and positions, as well as their sorry excuse for leadership. The ‘Judicial Committees’ practice this very philosophy too when they apply these rules in their inquisitions. What a bunch of hypocritical Pharisees. Isn’t this the type of people that Jesus himself railed against in Jerusalem 2K years ago?

      • Free Thinker says:

        Oh yeah, this “translator”-thing got at me too. What exactly does he mean by “I am a TRANSLATOR”? What languages does he know and/or translates back & forth? Is he a studied philologist with, let’s say, degrees in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek and Latin to begin with, to support their pompous & boastful claim to have produced “the best Bible translation ever”? What kind of “language expert” can you be when dropping out from school at 15 and starting going door knob scrubbing in Tasmania? Oh – “English and Tasmanian”? Yeah, THAT pays the rent. We live in a time of “pompous but hollow titles”, like, cleaning ladies are now being called “Habitation Purification Technicians” or “Real Estate Maintenance Specialists”. If JAckson is a “Language Expert”, then I am Albert Einstein. Get for real.

        I guess what the meaning of this is: He is “translating” into JW.ORG-Lingo, like …

        – JW.ORG-brainwashed = being spiritually-minded
        – Getting JW.ORG-brainwashed = being taught by Jehovah
        – Getting ever more JW.ORG-brainwashed = making spiritual progress
        – Being totally JW.ORG-focussed = putting God’s Kingdom first
        – JW.ORG-doctrines = The Truth
        – Newest JW.ORG-theological contortions = New Light
        – Serving the JW.ORG = serving God
        – etc.

        R u getting my drift?

        • Ruthlee says:

          see through wall maintenance engineer aka window cleaner! Also most holy jdub aka Jehovah’s witness. ruthless

      • Meredith J says:

        Yes, a seven year old child knows about Deborah as it was in My Bible Book of Stories. It beggars belief that Geoffrey Jackson, one of the leaders of the Jehovah’s Witnesses did not know that point. Lies, nothing but lies.

    • Covert Fade says:

      Simon, thank you so much for doing that, I owe you a drink sir!

      I think the ARC has been a wonderful showcase of people from all walks of life coming together to help abuse survivors and hammer those who silenced and hid them.

      • Simon Kestral says:

        They got a lot of email, I don’t know if they used mine; perhaps other people told them the same thing. In any case, it’s on record now, and shows in yet another way, how WT is not “the truth.”

    • Eric Arthur Blair says:

      They are so mysoganistic; pathetic control freaks. It would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic. Jesus was never mysoganistic, and in that he was ahead of his time. Angus Stewart and justice McClellan showed more compassion, and were more Christlike than any of those Watchtower phoneys. Jesus would not have a bar of this organisation.

  13. rob says:

    Jackson was so obviously coached by the lawyers to be evasive.

    Funny that witnesses are always told to look for the “Truth”

    In my opinion there was no truth with Jackson. But unfortunately the lawyers and the rank and file witnesses will rally around him and pat him on the back and tell him he did a great job.

    This is shameful, but not unexpected.

    • Covert Fade says:

      He clearly was coached by lawyers, but the problem he had was that the questions he faced were not questions that a smooth lawyerly answer would help you escape. I think the commission picked him up on pretty much every evasion, and even if they didn’t get a straight answer out of him, they made a BIG point of recording the swerve, and drawing the appropriate conclusions.

      I actually don’t think the lawyers were much help in this case.

    • Harland Edward Huxley says:

      No I didn’t. I was/am as shocked and mortified by the whole thing as anyone out there. I was born and raised as a Jehovahs Witness and nothing that was said or done by any of the ” brothers” was in line with the way that I was taught or raised. We no longer have anything to do with the organisation.

      • Covert Fade says:

        Hi Harland.
        Glad to hear you are free! Great news! 😀

        I”m curious, was it the Royal Commission that was main factor in your awakening, or had you been having doubts for a while?

  14. Sister drifter UK says:

    Again I ask the question – is this ever going to reach UK national newspapers?
    Because -I’m really not sure many people -Witness or non Witness know about it.
    What is the effect in Australia?

  15. Bill Thinker says:

    I wonder how the ordinary publishers view the Watchtower Brooklyn Real Estate enterprise — https://watchtowerbrooklynrealestate.com/ and http://85jaystreet.com/ ?

    Is this the promotion of the “The world that is going to end in any day soon”?

    • Will says:

      @Bill Thinker and their plea for more money as seen on JW.org. I work in the DUMBO/Brooklyn Heights area and the Watchtower is going to get some serious money for this. In an article in the Brooklyn Eagle, a representative, Richard Devine, said that if he had the money he would buy it. It’s interesting that we are told to keep our eye simple, but this guy (a WT bigwig) would buy it if he had money, so much for keeping a simple eye.

  16. Richard says:

    It is absolutely baffling to me how anyone can remain in this cult after this entire proceeding. They have clearly exposed themselves as fraudulent EVEN BY THEIR OWN SUPPOSED STANDARDS!

    This is not an organization of love, or morals, or even biblical integrity. These are nothing more than immoral, perverse, con artists that are taking advantage of desperate, ignorant people.

  17. eyes opened says:

    Perhaps Mr. Jackson didn’t look into the personal accounts from the abuse victims because he thought he would be reading apostate material. That’s totally warped, but maybe.

    • Covert Fade says:

      I actually think that’s something the ARC through possible.

      Remember they were asking all the elders previous to Jackson if they’d read the statements, then drilling them for the reasons as to why they had not. Stuwart almost came out and point blank asked one of them (Bowditch I think) if it was due to apostaphobia.

      After this, Spinks made a big song and dance about how he HAD read all the statements, I think to specifically pour water on this accusation.

      So I think the ARC certainly had their suspicions on this, but I think the truth is Jackson just didn’t give a poop about what the victims had to say., as the report identifies

  18. Robert67 says:

    1,006 cases of unreported child abuse. Every last one of the Governing body should receive a subpoena to appear before an international committee on human rights violations. Child abuse brought the last pope in the big C church down, why should it be any different for these conmen running a publishing company.

    • Robert67 says:

      I wonder what numbers in the Bible they will cook this time in order to make these arrest prophetic.

      • Searcher says:

        That would be as entertaining as the David Splane presentation on ‘Overlapping Generations.’ What a bunch of con-artists.

      • Meredith J says:

        Ha. They’ll be saying “It’s just like it was back in 1918 when the brothers were arrested and sent to prison for upholding the good news.” I can just see it. “See we are being persecuted by evil governments, by lies from apostates.” Yeah right.

    • Pow says:

      And that’s 1000 case out of a branch of 60000 now how many, when you factor the world wide number at 8 million. If you carry those numbers forward it would be well over 100000 cases.

      • Robert67 says:

        Proven sexual predators in WT=child abuse

        Shunning children=child abuse

        Convincing children God will kill them unless they meet a service quota=child abuse

        Keeping children from school=child abuse

        and the list keeps going!

  19. San Diego says:

    I was surprised when Jackson used the text Matthew 18 as support for the two witness rule. I recall as a ministerial servant, at meetings with the circuit overseer, numerous times it was said that in this text the two witnesses need not necessarily be eye witnesses to the wrongdoing, but rather it was to bring in witnesses to the dispute itself. This is right from the Organized To Do Jehovah’s Will book, chapter 14, paragraph 18. Guess Jackson didn’t take the hearing seriously enough to stick to the details of his own teachings.

    • Robert67 says:

      Jesus is just a low ranking subject of God to these men. Remember we’re talking about the GOVERNING BODY/Faithful and (televised) Discreet slave; ordained to alter, twist and manipulate Gods word the Bible to push the brand. Anything Jesus said that contradicts the agenda is his fault not theirs.

  20. Pow says:

    Furthermore, the 2 witness rule is a shell game. The truth of the matter up in till a few years ago the org. only wanted this problem to go away. …and there was lots and lots of times that committees/investigations had 2,3 or more witnesses. But if they could make sure that witnesses were not talking to each other, and they could put a gag order on it. Walla, then they could privately make the problem (victims) disappear. So, it was not always a matter of lack of evidence it was, and still is a matter of the reputation of the org.is paramount.

  21. ScotWm says:

    Regarding: The titanic struggle of previous Watchtower officials to blow off a court order:

    “But at least one prominent Jehovah’s Witness now claims he does “not answer to Watchtower,” and has even declared that Watchtower “does not, and never has had, any authority over me.” Who is this bold man? None other than Governing Body member Gerrit Lösch!”

    http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/i-do-not-answer-to-watchtower-stunning-gerrit-losch-declaration-revealed

  22. Born-2B-Free says:

    One thing that strikes me about this whole problem, is why the hell don’t people call the civil authorities when child-molestation has taken place? I understand that elders, or church officials in any religion, may be involved in discipline within the church, but sexual assault is a crime and if the victim, or the victim’s parents have any sense at all they will report it as such to the proper authorities.

    There are sex-offender lists distributed to anyone that wants a copy and there’s no reason these couldn’t be displayed in a Kingdom Hall for the benefit of the attendees. By relying on these, the burden of guilt or acquittal rests with the civil authorities. As regards the status of someone’s membership in the JW organization, that is a separate question. The actions of the elders are not binding in civil or criminal matters and vice versa.

    IMHO, the Witnesses could dispose of this matter very easily by simply informing anyone that has a complaint regarding sexual abuse that they should report this to the authorities. To wit, I know of one case wherein a Witness committed several serious crimes and was sent to prison. The elders, in this case, were advised to wait until he had served his sentence before dealing with the matter congregationally.

    The bottom line, as I see it, is that the Witnesses have fostered a climate of secrecy; which is bad, but common to cults. If they want out of this mess they need to recognize that criminal matters are not within their purview and not accept the mantle of this responsibility unto themselves. If “Brother A” molests “Witness-Child-B” let the courts determine guilt in the matter. Then, they have a legal platform on which to base internal discipline and can proceed as the see fit. If “Brother-A” belongs on a sex-offender list, the civil authorities are the ones to determine that and by displaying these lists in the Hall they are upholding their civic duty to the members of the congregation. If the civil conviction of “Brother-A” doesn’t meet their organization’s internal standard of proof they can proceed as they see fit (with regard to the standing of that individual in the congregation) but they have, in no way, interfered with civil and/or criminal law and are protecting their members to the standard of that law. If “Brother-A” is convicted of a sex crime he is no longer “free from accusation” and it would be foolish to use him in any capacity. It would probably be a very good idea to not accept any reports of field ministry from such a person (so as to not sanction, in any way, this individual going from door-to-door as a JW).

    Don’t get me wrong, I think that the JW judicial process has become a farce and I have no respect whatsoever for it, but it’s their club, their rules, and they can do as they see fit as long as the reach of their authority stays within their organization. People choose, individually, to place themselves under this authority, which is regrettable, but hardly unique to the JWs.

    • anonymous4 says:

      This all just shows how STUPID they are. “Oh what a tangled web we weave…”

    • Holy Connoli says:

      @born-2-be-free. I agree with most of what you say but in your last paragraph you state that it is their-club, their rules and people join it voluntarily
      and as long as it stays within their “CLUB” bc people join voluntarily. That may be true but if you are a child or a minor and you are abused sexually or physically you are not joining on your own. You are forced to be a part of this Religion by your adult parents or guardians so the young victim is not making a educated choice and free will choice to be part of this Cultish/religion nor is any child whether they are victims or not.

    • Covert Fade says:

      Yep, essentially this climate of secrecy is to blame. Remember, the very first finding of the ARC report was that the cult issues contradictory teachings to it’s followers that foster distrust of outsiders and secular authority.

      As a result, abuse survivors and their parents, even if horrified by their treatment by the cult, are even more terrified of going to the police.

  23. Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

    Theocratic war must be an invention of Jehovah god not a God’s invention. I strongly believe that all people will come to open their mind to discover that Jehovah is a god among other gods and Gods.

  24. anonymous4 says:

    More ranting on (man-made) religious insanity: Look at the Pope. WTF is up with the Big White Hat? Where is it written that the leader of Christianity is supposed to wear a Big White Hat?? We all know the Bible. I for one do not recall Jesus ever saying, “Oh, and by the way, the future Leader of my new religion must wear a Big White Freakin’ Hat.” Insanity! Insanity! And yet more insanity! MAN-MADE RUBBISH.
    P.S.: …and what’s with the Staff??…He looks like Little Bo-Peep!

  25. Caltanzee says:

    You will never get a direct and honest forth coming answer from these men who believes there are superior to all others on earth as God’s appointed stewards..They employs what they calls Theocratic warfare by using cunning and deceitful tactics..They will go to great length to further victimize the victim rather own up to any wrongdoing on their part..These men are high on self egos.sympathy is not on their radar screen.

  26. M Saurus says:

    Many years ago when I was still in, a sister suspected her ministerial servant husband was having an affair. Well aware of the 2 witnesses rule, she and her neighbor followed hubby one day and caught him in the act. When presenting her evidence to the elders, along with her witness, they were told the 2 witnesses had to be actual JEHOVAH’s “witnesses” – the worldly neighbor could not be one of them. This sister has since faded, as have I – what a sham.

    • anonymous4 says:

      So apostates “lie”. “Worldly” people cannot be trusted. That leaves Jehovah’s Witnesses as the Source of Any & All Truth(s). What a JOKE.

  27. anonymous4 says:

    I am curious about Anthony Morris III’s service as a Medic or Op. Room Tech. in Vietnam. I have had the privilege of being acquainted with several Vietnam veterans, and would like more information. In Wikipedia, he is quoted as saying he served “in an army hospital in the Mekong Delta”. Was he in the army? If not, which service? What rank? What designation? Where exactly in the Mekong Delta? That Delta covers a rather large area. Can he provide copies of his Discharge Papers? Or is his name still on any DoD files? Just curious. I’m kind of a Vietnam War buff.

  28. rikos says:

    very good article but the point is. why these seven men is free to continue to deceiving people?if the mythical god jehovah have chosen these men in Russia, these men will be serving life sentences in siberian. This happen because the religious market in north america is booming.

  29. Winston Smith says:

    “Mr Jackson did not seek to explain the reason for the difference between his oral and written evidence as to context of Deuteronomy 22:23‐ 27.”

    When faced with obvious logic in the moment of his testimony, Jackson had to agree that the two-witness rule did not apply to sexual assault. However, once he had an opportunity to ponder things, he regressed to his cult reasoning: “Rule #1: Watchtower is always right. Rule #2: If Watchtower is wrong, see rule #1” (and possibly someone else from the Org helped him write his retraction).

    It seems that perhaps in the moment, Angus Stewart got through to the authentic self and Jackson could not argue with the obvious logic. But once the cult personality reengaged, he reverted to traditional Watchtower dogma.

    I have seen similar cases with indoctrinated family members – you get through to them with logic and they agree with you. Then sometime later they revert to the cult indoctrination. It’s frustrating!

    WS

    • Covert Fade says:

      It’s very possible.

      I actually tend to think he was just caught utterly wrong footed by his own lack of knowledge and the ARC’s scriptural proficiency, and couldn’t think of a snappy answer, and so had to agree. Kind of like the moment where McClellan pinned him down on corporal punishment, his “GB” face slipped and he looked honestly lost and bewildered for a few seconds.

      But yeah, you could well be right. Maybe for a second we got to see Jackson’s honest side, before the cult side reached out a clawed hand and drowned it again.

    • Robert67 says:

      Context, that’s a dirty naughty word that should not be.
      Watchtower – everything they print

  30. Ruthlee says:

    You know folks all this banter between us brings up some great points .Sadly to say the sleeping jdubs are still drooling on their pillows and won’t believe us. I’ve just lost a good frend because she will not see anything wrong. So my conclusion is is that at least we know some of the truth about all this corruption .Some of it will be believed and exposed in time , I hope so anyway. Any more word on vicarious liability and the org dumping on the elders. See that coming a mile off. ruthlee.

    • Covert Fade says:

      Never give up hope.

      Even if people don’t at first wake up, this information DOES reach Witnesses, whether the GB want to or not. It’s online forever, and when Witnesses reach a point where they start to question (as so many of them do, I mean, otherwise where did we all come from?), this banter and info will be waiting for them, to wake them up and welcome them home.

    • Searcher says:

      Agree with you Ruthlee. There has got to be a scapegoat coming down from the hallowed halls of ‘Bethel’ in NY. The GB and CO’s certainly cannot be held responsible in these matters.

      Poetic justice for some of these power hungry elders, sorrow for others.

      • Ruthlee says:

        Thanks friends just was having a wobble moment all part of the distancing process and needing reassurance .Sometimes its exciting and great being part of the awakening but in quieter moments it is REALLY depressing because they so blatantly lied to us and they smirk and seem to get away with it . I know rationally all will be exposed and this is just another rotten lost cause It just seems so wicked to have put “gods” name on themselves and us too. cheers all ruthlee

        • Winston Smith says:

          @Ruthlee,
          I relate to your feelings between excitement and discouragement. I often think why didn’t I wake up sooner? How did I not know I was being manipulated?

          During the early part of my awakening I began to take solace in the writings of the early founders of the United States government. Based on where you are from, these writings may not be as familiar to you, regardless I believe the sentiment won’t be lost.

          “Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated.” – Thomas Paine

          WS

  31. Justin (formerly J*L*C*R) says:

    Just for my own edification…what does this mean for the Watchtower? Fines…court cases…punitive damages?

    • Covert Fade says:

      Right now?
      Public Vilification and bad publicity. Vindication for their victims and condemnation of their policies and elders.

      In the near future?
      Massive punitive damages when the government implements statutory compensation. Possible removal of their Senior Lawyer Vince Toole for malpractice. Possible new laws making some of their current child abuse practices (non-reporting and religious courts) illegal

      In the long term future? Ongoing lawsuits, aided by the facts uncovered in the arc. Dwindling members and exiting JW’s as more of the rank and file compare the facts of the case to the lies spun by the GB.

  32. anonymous4 says:

    As anyone can tell, I’m not exactly Religion’s No.1 Fan. But “The Pursuit of Happiness” is every human being’s Right. Do people have a right to worship the god of their choosing? Of course. Do people have a right to congregate to talk about upbuilding things? Of course. But it is hard to defend organizations that propagate unsupported stories (fairy tales), brainwash people, and incite their members to do nasty things like kill and/or persecute (including “shunning”) individuals who do not believe and practice as THEY do. Entities like that should NOT BE PROTECTED under the “umbrella” of “Religious Freedom”.

  33. JB Reezner says:

    Covert Fade, the information in these articles is fantastic, and your writing style is flawless. As I was reading this latest one though, something flew into my eye and caused a certain amount of irritation. Then the same thing happened in the other eye. Really, I can’t express how deeply encouraging it is to see the arrogance and deception emanating from this cult being called out in such a public way by people who genuinely are superior authorities. And anyone capable of viewing the testimony objectively would have known that there was never a second when it looked like GJ had successfully conned ANY of them.

    I hope this is a sign that, FINALLY, this cult may actually be heading for the grave its misguided leaders have been digging for it for the last 100+ years.

  34. Bad Penny says:

    I agree with JB, another superb article Covert Fade.
    What very talented writers we have on this forum.

    So pleased that Geoffrey ‘Lizard eyes’ Jackson did not fool the Commission. I just wish that he could have had the intimidation of the courtroom in person, instead of on video link. I don’t think he would have been so cocky.
    Jesus Christ never had such a privilege, he had to face his accusers man to man. But of course, Geoffrey is above the Christ isn’t he??

  35. Eric Arthur Blair says:

    I want to share with you all an email I just got from a sister who sent me a link to the Watchtower’s submission, and ONLY the watchtower submission. No word of a lie, I have just cut and pasted this as is, and it is one of the best examples I have seen of the captive cult mentality the ARC is trying to break through. No doubt it will illicit the same emotional response from you as it did from me:

    “The below is a must read for anyone interested in the findings of the Royal Commission. It’s long, but we read whole books/novels on other matters. It really clarifies things and puts even the most minor worries into perspective.
    Any logical and deep thinker in the truth would remove ANY negativity even if fleeting after reading this comprehensive analysis. But, most don’t care enough to go that deep. Easier to criticise and dismiss. It’s a bit like the masses that wanted to hear Jesus stories but didn’t want to bother to delve deeper and get the full meaning.
    This is from a worldly top legal person putting a submission in response to the findings or criticisms that came from the RC on child abuse. Wow how different we are to the world’s organisations!
    For eg, it’s so telling that the ex witness who was abused and now criticises the way the elders handled it, had given a more favorable (re the elder’s response at the time) rendition to the secular hearing in 2001. Now it was so colored against the bros.
    Thought I’d share…

    http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney.aspx

    Submissions on behalf of Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Australia & Others
    2.1 MB”

    • Eric Arthur Blair says:

      And then she followed up with this:

      “Sorry, when I sent the R/Commission link I should have clarified. When you open the link you need to click onto :

      Submissions on behalf of Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Australia & Others
      2.1 MB

      …which is near the bottom of the webpage.”

      Whoops! We nearly got the whole picture (unlike that “apostate” Portuguese documentary!)

    • Covert Fade says:

      I would honestly love to debate with this person point by point on each finding the arc made, the rebuttal from the WT, and why the WT rebuttal is junk. Any “honest truth seeker” would be quite happy to do that.

      By the way, the WT rebuttal IS junk. If anyone has an interest I might put an article together as to why.

      • Eric Arthur Blair says:

        Yes, I completely agree. I’ve read through Watchtower’s response and it is beyond pathetic – callous and self serving. No repentance, no acknowledgement, no apology, just more of the same. It’s shameful. I don’t even respond to the person who sent me this email anymore; she is beyond reason (as is her elder husband.) They watched the first three days of the ARC and dismissed it as “Queensland country bumpkins” who didn’t know what they were saying. I sent her a link to the bbc podcast from July 23 (below) dealing with the sexual abuse problem in the UK to illustrate that this was a systemic problem fundamental to the entire organisation (I didn’t extrapolate the obvious conclusion that there is clearly no Holy Spirit associated with this organisation – still going softly softly at that time.) What I got back was four long vitriolic emails in the space of 12 hours which all basically amounted to the same thing – that the abuse victims were lying and they should just shut up. You will notice in this latest email (above) that the only person she denigrates is the abuse survivor. There is just no reasoning with some people, they are truly captive and we can only hope that the organisation suffers a massive setback (some major fines and criminal convictions would be nice) which brings it to its knees, breaks their grip and releases those held captive.

        https://itunes.apple.com/au/podcast/the-report/id311195029?mt=2

        • Eric Arthur Blair says:

          I would also like to add that I really appreciate your coverage of the ARC and the articles you’ve written (as has my wife who has now completely faded too – the ARC was the last straw for her.) Your articles and comments have been balanced, reasonable and insightful, and for me personally, very healing, so thank you. And I would welcome an article on Watchtower’s submission (but only if you have the time )

        • Winston Smith says:

          When I hear about JW responses to the ARC findings, I want to scream: “What’s wrong with you? How can you be so blind?” Then I remember that at one time I was just like them and would have dismissed the information too. Cognitive Dissonance and such.

          WS

      • Tara says:

        I trawled through it last night and found it hard going. So much denial it made me feel very down hearted. I would love to have it debunked. When I was reading the bits on how we can leave at anytime and not be shunned I nearly cried. What a load of lies. No one on this site could ever agree with that.

      • Meredith J says:

        Yes, please, Covert Fade. That is exactly the term when describing the Watchtower to our son as to why we left recently. I said that I realised it was just ‘a piece of junk’. Funny I couldn’t think of a better way to describe it at the time.

  36. Meredith J says:

    Thank you Covert Fade for your great articles. You have dismantled the goings on of the ARC after the submissions. You have put into words, as many others have to by their comments here, to be just what I was thinking. One wonders when action will be taken. They cannot let children be threatened forever by policies that destroy their lives. They must act soon I feel, but processes take time to happen as far as government is concerned. Care will be taken in how it will be handled. We have to be patient.

  37. zeebo says:

    Isn’t it strange how this huge event didn’t make it onto the legal news section of the jw site? …

    • Eric Arthur Blair says:

      Yes. Last week’s Watchtower Study had a section on “legal victories” and how this is evidence that Jehovah is backing his organisation today. No mention of the ARC strangely……

      • Robert67 says:

        If they twist the wording of the entire ARC commission the way they do with scripture, they can easily create a tale of victory over the ARC.

  38. Tara says:

    I was talking to a friend yesterday morning. He told me that his nephew had been DF’d from Bethel and was on suicide watch. His home cong. were treating him very badly. It came out that when he entered Bethel he had to basically sign over his bank account to them. He has been left traumatized by the whole thing. I didn’t ask what he was df’d for. So when I came on here and saw the new article I was very troubled. I just want all of this shouted from the roof tops before the kill any other person because of their cult lies.

    • Searcher says:

      Tara,

      This is a glaring example of the conditional love that the JW’s express. Their love is taught to be conditional upon you walking the establishment line and getting the hours in as a good little slave to the corporation should. Examples of the hypocrisy are in the ‘Hypocracy!’ article that was just published by Gionet on this site.

  39. MimiLove says:

    Does anybody have a suggestion on how to reason with active JW’s about staying with organisation when they know the leadership is wrong? My husband and some friends continue to bring up Eli and his sons and how they were left in control until “Jehovah” saw fit to remove them. So their reasoning is “Jehovah will remove them eventually so we don’t have to worry, just stay faithful to Jehovah….” I want to slam my head into things it is so frustrating.

    • Robert67 says:

      Remind them that God expects them to side with truth and those who worship him must do so in spirit and truth. Jesus himself said that Satan was the father of lies and identified the strict dogmatic teachers of his day as children of that liar. These men and Brooklyn have been proven to lie and deny to push their product.
      In Mathew 17:5 God himself instructs those alleging to follow the Christ to listen to HIM, the beloved, the one who God himself approved. Nothing in there about self deputized, self righteous twisters of both scripture and faith replacing the Christ as mediators between men and God. There is nothing in all of scripture to back their self interpreted account of Mathew 24:45

      Call them what they are, followers of men. Remind them of the last words of Deutoronomy 18 where God instructs Israel on how to identify a false prophet, along with Proverbs 30:5,6 and Jesus closing words in all of scripture Revelation 22:18-21

      Some JW’s are in the organization for the cult of it, not for God, atleast not really. At the end of the day, if they show more love for false prophets than for God and the Christ, just knock the dust off your sandals and move on to the next brainwashed victim of this cult.

    • Bad Penny says:

      MimiLove – “when they know the leadership is wrong?”. Do your husband and friends mean the GB or elders? If they are questioning the GB (which of course they are not allowed to do as it is a disfellowshipping offence) it may be good to quote Rev 14:5 and ask them if the GB really fit the bill.
      If they are waiting for ‘Jehovah’ to remove them, where is he going to remove them to? If they are troublesome on earth, would he really want them to be joint heirs in heaven?
      I wish you luck. I have tried to reason with active JWs as well and it gives me a headache so I just let them get on with it. I have offered help and a listening ear to some who were ‘friends’ if they ever have doubts. No-one has yet taken me up on the offer. I live in hope.

      • Winston Smith says:

        @MimiLove,
        It can be challenging trying to reason with active JW’s. Their minds are given over to a cult, so logical reasoning eludes them. Still we try. I have used Deut 18:20 about false prophets as Robert67 suggests. It usually falls on deaf ears and is dismissed out of hand, but maybe they will think about it again later on.

        When they bring up Eli and his sons and talk about waiting for Jehovah to remove them, my response is that they are basing this on an incorrect premise. The position of Eli and his sons was based on a continuation of an arrangement put in place by God centuries earlier, a legacy arrangement.

        What is the JW legacy? When was their system put in place by God? A number of JW’s cannot even tell you. The more well-read ones will say back in or around 1918, when Christ chose them as his Faithful and Discreet Slave. So Christ chose them on the basis of what they were doing and teaching at that time. So ask what were they teaching? Did it have validity in God’s word? Since most JW’s don’t know what was taught at that time, you can mention the fact that they still taught that Christ’s presence had occurred in 1874, they still celebrated Christmas (a big no-no for JW’s), and taught the end was coming in 1920 (see The Finished Mystery). And those are just a few of the blatant issues. In view of all the erroneous teachings, why would Christ choose them over the other churches of Christendom? They have no legacy to lay claim to like Eli and his sons.

        It probably still won’t make an immediate difference, but getting someone to leave a cult is a gradual process and won’t happen overnight.

        WS

    • Bad Penny says:

      MimiLove –
      Just following on from my earlier comment, I was checking up some info in the ‘Gods Word for us through Jeremiah’ book (which is absolutely packed with erroneous dates by the way) and I came across mention of Eli. Page 21, para 12. In part it says ‘Jehovah would forsake his temple. And he would do the same to the hypocrites who worshipped in it, just as he abandoned the tabernacle at Shiloh in the days of High Priest Eli.’
      Fighting fire with fire here, the Society’s own publication suggests that the ones who worshipped at the temple were just as culpable in Jehovah’s eyes – by not acting on what they knew to be wrong. Waiting for Jehovah to act is not a ‘get out’ clause in order to remain with the org.
      More like a ‘get out’ clause to leave!
      Worth a try perhaps??

      • MimiLove says:

        Thanks everyone! I am definitely going to use the fire with fire method:) Thanks everyone who contributed. It is so nice to know there is a site to go to for good information.

    • Covert Fade says:

      I just want to add an extra thought to everyone else’ good advice on this point:

      I think that one of the steps to total awakening is a period of thinking “the leadership has apostatised but the Organisation is still Gods. In time, God will fix it.”

      I certainly went through that period on my road to realising the reality of the cult. I think was a couple of years where I desperately held onto that idea. It was my way of admitting the facts I couldn’t deny about some of the awful things the Organisation did, whilst still holding onto the idea of Paradise, God and the rest of it.

      I’m not saying your husband and friends are the same as me, but maybe this gives you grounds for hope? I does sound like they are on a road. The road may take a while for them to walk, but once a person is on that road, I think there is real grounds for hope.

      • Winston Smith says:

        Very good observation Covert Fade. I recall a similar period about 1 – 2 years before my awakening as well.

        WS

    • Searcher says:

      @MimiLove,

      Get a copy of Steven Hassan’s “Combating Cult Mind Control”. This is virtually a handbook on how to approach an indoctrinated victim of cult mind control. The edition I have does not mention JW’s directly, but the principles apply. I believe there is a new edition that does include WTS as a listed destructive cult. Lloyd (aka Cedars) has also made a video with Steven Hassan talking about the ways a person should approach a victim of a destructive cult.

      I feel for you and wish you the best. As well, I feel for all the people here that have family indoctrinated and trapped by this despicable organization and the leaders that propagate it.

  40. Reader says:

    It was two EYEwitnessses to put the accused death.
    Perjury was whatever the goal of the false witness fell on the accuser.
    Persons have been executed or spent decades in prison in recent times on one false witness.
    For 1500 bce well ahead of the contempories.
    This Law would protect Mary from a stoning.
    If someone is not put to death, future retrial remains possible.

    • anonymous4 says:

      No problem. Pedophilia is not a Capital Offence.

    • Covert Fade says:

      For 1500 BCE it was indeed probably the best they could do.

      In 2015, we have far better systems and methods to apply to allegations of child sexual abuse, and remember the ARC brought out that even in 1500 BCE, the scriptures seem to indicate that you could stone someone to death on the evidence of one accused in certain circumstances.

      • Simon Kestral says:

        Two witnesses just means there is no dispute; it’s a simple case that can be handled quickly by local older men.

        But the Bible also provides for difficult cases where there is dispute: TAKE IT TO A JUDGE! The judge can put a murderer to death, even when there are NO living witnesses.

        The system of 1500 BCE worked just fine. But WT willfully subverts it, as “reader” dogmatically parrots.