Reclaimed Voices Foundation Sends Powerful Open Letter To Watchtower
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The Reclaimed Voices Foundation, an organisation in the Netherlands that supports survivors of child sex abuse inside the Jehovah’s Witnesses, has sent a powerful open letter to the Dutch branch of the religion.

In recent months, the Dutch public and government have become increasingly aware, thanks to the efforts of Reclaimed Voices and media organisations like RTL, of the severity and scale of the child sex abuse scandal inside the religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses. We covered the issue in a previous JW Survey article that you can read here, but two key issues that both the Dutch Government and Reclaimed Voices identified were:

  • That abuse survivors be given access to whatever data Watchtower held about their abuse.
  • That Watchtower sit down for a discussion with Reclaimed Voices to talk about how survivors could best be assisted by the religion.

Watchtower gave initial indications that it would move to address both issues. However, as has become typical with Watchtower, it has since become evasive and failed to make meaningful progress.

I spoke to two members of Reclaimed Voices, Raymond Hintjes and Aswin Suierveld. They gave me an update on the situation for these two key issues.

Watchtower: Up to its old tricks?

Firstly we discussed the matter of survivors obtaining the information that Watchtower holds on their abuse. The initial approach was from Reclaimed Voices lawyer, contacting Watchtower’s legal department and requesting the data on behalf of the survivors. Rather than comply, however, Watchtower replied to ask what the legal basis for demanding that data was.

This was very strange, as the onus is on Watchtower to give legal reasons as to why they could not supply the data and not on the survivors to supply legal reasons as to why they should have access.

However, after the Dutch Government applied pressure, Watchtower’s tone appeared to change slightly. They stated that they would supply the data, but that the survivors would have to show ID cards or passports in order to claim their files. This, again, is not a legal requirement but in this case the survivors were happy to show their ID, and so Reclaimed Voices responded that this was acceptable. They asked Watchtower to co-ordinate with them to make arrangements for survivors to visit the local Watchtower branch, show their ID and collect their documents.

Again, here things got rather strange.

Watchtower stated that it wasn’t necessary for the survivors to visit the branch; they should simply send their ID documents to Watchtower in the post, and then Watchtower would post them back their files.

Aswin points out that this is very bizarre; Watchtower’s initial position was that it could not release these files due to privacy and confidentiality reasons, but now it wanted to send these sensitive documents detailing sexual abuse of children through the postal service. She feels that the real reason for this demand is that Watchtower wants to avoid meeting the survivors, that the organisation wants to keep them at a distance.

In my opinion, this is very likely the reason behind Watchtower’s strange response. It would tally with the way the religion demands any who leave be treated by other JW’s – cut off and shunned, not even spoken to. Watchtower has in the past labelled “apostates” as “mentally diseased” and implied that any contact could be dangerous to a Witness. Whilst it might not consider all of the Reclaimed Voices survivors to be “apostates” as such, it clearly views them with suspicion, considering them to be opponents rather than victims. Whilst such attitudes may appear shocking to Dutch citizens, they are sadly commonplace inside the Jehovah’s Witness religion.

On the other matter, a direct sit down meeting between the Reclaimed Voices foundation and Watchtower’s Dutch leadership, there have been similar delays and stalling on the part of Watchtower, despite the Dutch government making it clear that they expect Watchtower to fulfil this duty. Instead, Watchtower organised a further meeting with the Dutch Government without Reclaimed Voices being present, even flying over a US member of the religion’s world headquarters  to be part of the discussion on April 17th.

It seems clear that Watchtower is trying to spin a narrative to the government, and does not wish Reclaimed Voices to be present, as the foundation would be able to point out where Watchtower is attempting to mislead the Dutch ministers. It would also be probable that the status of some Reclaimed Voices members as “apostates” in Watchtower’s eyes means that the Netherlands branch of Watchtower may feel religiously unable to share a room with a Reclaimed Voices delegation.

Reclaimed Voices: The open letter.

As a result of Watchtower’s ongoing stalling tactics, and its failure to properly engage with survivors and the Reclaimed Voices foundation, Raymond Hintjes has issued an open letter to Watchtower, which can be read in Dutch here. The letter has also been reported on by the RTV News organisation here.

We have included an English translation below:

 

 

Dear Sirs,

On November 24, 2017, we sent you a letter in which we discuss your statement under conditions with us to discuss the subject of sexual abuse within your organization. You sent us a confirmation on December 22nd. You told us to consider our findings and to take the time to consider a few things.

In the meantime, almost four months have passed and we have noticed that you have not heard from you anymore. We seriously question whether you are serious about the problem of sexual abuse within your community. Especially since 276 situations have been shared with us of sexual abuse within Jehovah’s Witnesses in the Netherlands. In addition, worldwide stories of sexual abuse within Jehovah’s Witnesses come to light.

Meanwhile, a number of people through you and our lawyer have requested you to submit (copies of) files that are kept by your organization. It gives us the impression that you are out of contact with us. We are very concerned about this. Is this practice an indication of how you will treat abuse victims who no longer belong to your faith community? Minister Dekker has asked you to enter into discussions with victims who have reported to us. In order to comply with this, you will have to communicate with us.

We therefore ask you to answer the following questions: Are you prepared to meet with us? What is the reason that you have not spoken to us so far? If you are not prepared for an interview, what is the reason for this? Can you confirm that this has to do with how your faith community views people who are no longer members of your organization?

We would like to receive an answer within 14 days.

On behalf of the Reclaimed Voices board,

Raymond Hintjes, chairman.

At this point, it remains to be seen how Watchtower will respond. Reclaimed Voices have another meeting with the Dutch Government scheduled on May 4th, but with pressure from the media and Government on this issue, it appears that Watchtower’s preferred tactic of simply ignoring its child abuse crisis is not going to work in the Netherlands for much longer.

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107 Responses to Reclaimed Voices Foundation Sends Powerful Open Letter To Watchtower

  1. Chiafade says:

    Watchtower will ignore ALL of those questions. They don’t answer questions like that from current members. They certainly won’t do it for mentally diseased enemies of “jehovah”.

    Their disdain for victims of sexual abuse who speak out is clear. They don’t even have the decency to have these individuals over to the branch offer them coffee and tell them how sorry they were for the abuse they’ve suffered. How hard is that? It’s very difficult when you’re hiding something and aren’t really sorry about anything.

  2. John freeman says:

    the recent form that has been handed round the kingdom halls for all publishers to sign permitting WT/jw dot org permission to use your personal data to do as they wish has given the elders another headache.i have point blank refused to sign it..i have been aproached by 3 elders at the meeting after i returned it to the cong secretary with a letter saying i wont sign. and ive been ofered a shepherding call with the circuit overseer..i said ok but i will want to discuss the ARC findings.that killed it stine dead.they will not discuss the child abuse issue at at all.i refused to sign on the grounds that WT /jwdot org have a record of refusing to comply with the law and courts regarding data held .i am still waiting for more fallout

    • eyes opened says:

      John, is this form being handed out in US congregations? This is the first I’ve heard of it. Thanks

      • John freeman says:

        as far as i know its only uk as they are saying its been forced on them by EU regulations..however i think its way of finding out who are loyal to the GB and organisation..on mike and kim u tube there is a leaked video of a top level meeting where they discuss every jw being given an ID number .also the form to sign is only for publishers baptised or unbaptised..its a sign of the org goung into lockdown .the vast apostste armý and child abuse cases is destroying them

    • Elle says:

      Do inactive publishers have to sign this? Or just active ones? Does anyone know what happens the the data from inactive JWs

      • Ricardo says:

        @Elle, the aim is to get your consent to add your details to the database. If you don’t sign the form, there is no consent. So inactive Witnesses and d’fed ones are safe, as I understand.

      • George says:

        I am considered an inactive publisher, however I was given the form also. I returned it, saying it was meant for publishers only 😉 The elder apologised.

    • Chiafade says:

      Good for you John. They can only go as far as you let them. Arranging a “visit” with the CO is them thinking that the co can do a better job of making you comply. I don’t know how you can stand dealing with them.

  3. Gwen says:

    Hi Covert,

    I think there is a typo in the 2nd paragraph of the letter where it says; “you have not heard from you anymore”.

  4. Susan says:

    What a disgraceful organization. They only comply when they are forced to do so by “Satan’s system” and in fact have stated that they would prefer that they were forced to report abuses (Geoffrey Jackson said this at the Australian Royal Commission). They don’t have the decency to do the right thing on their own accord it seems. They think they can just ignore their victims crying out for justice. They didn’t even have the decency to read their victims’ letters detailing their abuse. I hope their members wake up and see the true nature of JW org.

  5. Whip It says:

    Interesting news here in Australia today, Cardinal Pell is facing court to see if he has to face charges of Child Abuse, as i watched the article i couldn’t help but think of how many Elders are going in that direction, miss handling of Child Abuse cases, i believe a very large can of worms is about to open, resulting in a great number of people leaving this organisation, good work all.

  6. Whip It says:

    Cardinal Pell will be tried in court, ruling made today,

    • Chiafade says:

      Interesting ,thanks for this bit of news. It’s surely a sign of what’s coming. If the Catholic Church couldn’t make the arc back off the small fry jw stand no chance.

    • Ricardo says:

      I see that Cardinal Pell will have to stand trial. This will actually have a negative effect on all of Christianity in Australia; people’s perception will be affected, making them more sensitive to hypocrisy in religion. Thank goodness the Witnesses are a shining light of virtue and purity. Or so the average Witness in their cocooned world thinks.

      It is going to be so scary for so many Witnesses when the Weinstein moment hits. Their world will crumble. More importantly, trust will be gone. And if you cannot trust your religious leaders, who can you trust?

      The GB is setting up the Witnesses for a big fall.

      • Free Thinker says:

        Since it fits, just as a reminder – corruption and decay up in the highest Watchtower echelons:

        Edward Chitty
        Leo Greenlees
        Percy Chapman

        Looky here:

        http://www.freeminds.org/bethel/homosexuality_bethel.htm

        Good stuff, friends. Trust me on this one.

        Not to mention Russells escapades, or DaJudge’s Whiskeymania, or Grandpa Klein’s Amarettobowls and “Powershakes”, or Swingle’s alcoholrants, or … there must be more yet.

        Check it out. Really good stuff.

      • Morris says:

        I agree. On a diff note, did any see the video (last weeks ‘take counsel’ video) in which a couple was invited to watch a movie with another couple. Word got back to the elders that the host couple needed to change their choice of movie material. A buddy brought up the point which I then mentioned to others that if the invited couple had a problem with the movie why did they stay and watch the whole thing? Why didn’t they leave their gift at the altar and approach the host couple but instead went behind their backs and tattled on the host couple. Kind of goes against Bible principles plus all the articles on this subject. So, instead, they gossip to elders about others movie choices instead of nicely declining the watch and take up the issue with the host couple. All I got for an answer was ‘regardless of the example used the point was to take counsel.

        They always find a way to avoid and make excuses. When all havoc breaks loose they will have an excuse that God is cleaning out the org.

        If Jesus came down and was ‘undercover boss’ and no one knew who he was and made comments and/or disagreed they would disfellowship Jesus but if they knew who he was they would accept (maybe).

        Crazy org all around but so sad that there are some nice nice people I consider very close.

  7. Ted says:

    They are quick to use the law to establish their right to
    go knocking on other peoples doors, but when the law
    comes to their door to protect the human rights of others,
    they’re not at home the doors locked and bolted!

  8. Marty Doc says:

    Things are certainly gathering pace and the GB know they don’t stand a chance of hiding all of this for much longer! It will be very interesting to see how the “ID” thing here in the UK unfolds. No doubt the hard liners will happily sign away their private data to be sold to all and sundry, yet I have a sneaky suspicion that many will be woken up by this and start questioning things for the first time.
    Bring it on! 🙂

  9. Doc Obvious says:

    When I watch the JW Broadcasts, I notice the men wearing jewelry. This reminds me of the piano player, Liberace. He always had jewelry on his fingers and had a crazy smile on his face.

    Men wearing excessive jewelry is very feminine in my book.

    • Resister says:

      Ha ha. Good eye, Doc.
      This may end up being Anthony Morris’ new Crusade.
      😀 😀 😀

    • Markie says:

      Never, and I mean never trust a man that wears a pinkie ring. And I do think too much jewelry on a man is kind of effeminate.

    • Deborah Rush says:

      Doc,I just today researched 3 different websites on the”meaning of wearing a Pinky Ring”…all 3 pointed to(no pun intended)
      Desire for attention/Prominence;
      Love of money(cash).

      • Deborah Rush says:

        …And several–not just 1–have been photographed,showing their rings,in their group-setting.(Besides the infamous gold-computer watch
        Geoffrey Jackson was seen wearing,in his legal-summons appearance before the A.R.C.,summer 2015.)

  10. Resister says:

    Thanx for another fine article, CF. Now we’ll see if Watchturd actually has a heart, like the Grinch who stole Christmas. Anyone wanna take bets? No need, since they’ve obviously already started playing the old Bait & Switch game. These guys must be reading from the same Playbook as North Korea. Way to go, Faithless & Depleted Slave. 🙂

    • Resister says:

      As the article and some commenters have alluded to, the only way to bring these bastards to their knees is PRESSURE PRESSURE and more PRESSURE.

      • Ricardo says:

        When the number of publishers start to decrease many Witnesses will start to wonder what is going on. For so many years we have been told that we can see Jehovah blessing us, thousands each year are flocking into his organization. When this can no longer be said, some Witnesses will wonder why we aren’t getting God’s blessing any more. These overall decreases will probably start not next year but the year after next.

        At that time the child abuse scandals should be reaching a peak, so Witnesses looking for reasons why God has withdrawn his blessing will see the rampant child abuse which has been kept secret as the reason. These disillusioned ones will cool off.

        Less members will mean less donations, meaning more halls will need to be sold. This will cause more to wonder where Jehovah’s blessing is, and set a cycle of continued decrease.

        This all adds up to huge pressure on the GB. Just keep observing, keep patient. It will all start falling apart soon.

        • outandabout says:

          not too bad on the logic there, Ricardo. See if you can apply some to this; the WT get their justification for the two witness rule, shunning and the blood ban from the Bible. It’s all there. So whats at fault here….the WT for trying to follow God’s inerrant word, or God’s word itself? Surely, if an atrocity is condoned by the bible, how can it be wrong? Why doesn’t the world get off WT’s back, let it follow the bible and so create a wonderful society all primed and ready to enter paradise….. just like they’re doing now.

        • Ricardo says:

          @outandabout, the GB can make the Bible say whatever they want. It can be used to justify secret messages in pyramids. If the GB suddenly wanted to allow polygamy, they could find a scripture to back it up.

          Jesus taught 2 main rules to guide our lives: love God and love your neighbour. If we just use these 2 rules, shunning is out as it is unloving. The two witness rule is out because it is obsolete when there are police forensics and DNA testing and such. As for blood, let that be a conscience choice.

          You may not like the Bible, but living by these two rules is simple and produces decency. You can see the difference between being a Christian and being a Witness quite easily. Witnesses worry about a plethora of pharisaic laws. Christians give attention to two.

        • Morris says:

          you can almost see it unfold and laugh. Less members does equal less donations unless they push more or weekly reminders of donations. The blind will give their last cent sadly.

          Many may be over joyed to see a decrease as they will spin it as the end coming even sooner and the cleansing being done immediately.

          What would happen if the number of members doubles but the donations didn’t follow or were cut in half. It’s not about the publishers as it’s all about the donations.

  11. Kike says:

    Yeah been having this thought in my mind also. When you have God’s name in a organization you go along with high requirement.
    Even if I think they have preach worldwide as they suppose to.
    I know other requirement are not fullfiild. Even the watchtower said in an article some arragmentsar were left for the future.
    So possibility things or not blessed are high. That would mean organization will be removed in the great tribulations.
    It’s a risk one is taking staying in the organization also.

  12. Doc Obvious says:

    God is allowing the world’s court systems to act on Watchtower’s mishandling of Child abuse. Watchtower states there needs to be 2 witnesses to the event for there to be any action. Then, Watchtower clarifies this by saying 2 witnesses that are in good standing. So, 2 ordinary witnesses that are not in good standing does not count. Can we not see that Watchtower is going beyond the things that are written?

    Would a judge judicating a case care if the 2 witnesses to the event were in good standing? Nope. It is time to subpoena the whole governing body and a legal smack down has to take place.

    The real question is this: Is Watchtower in good standing with God?

    • Ricardo says:

      @Doc, that’s the best question of them all.

      • Morris says:

        They will never change the 2 witness rule (may add to it as you stated) or the blood issue as this could cause too much legal issues, etc … Even if it the right thing to do it will never happen.

        I guess you can call Russell an apostate to 7th day adventists. It’s all a scam ~ money making scam that is. Funny how I don’t donate a dime and if they knew I wonder it I would be pulled in the back room.

  13. outandabout says:

    Ricardo…..do you think the WT is the only organisation making the Bible say what they want? If we are to only follow a couple of things the bible says, whats the rest of it for?

    • Ricardo says:

      @outy, thanks for that question. That’s one reason I like this site: it makes you think. I have never considered that question. Let me ponder that one and get back to you soon.

    • Ricardo says:

      @outandabout, I thought and thought, and I concluded that the Bible tells us about the saviour who will fix things up. This saviour taught us to love God and neighbour. The other things in the Bible include prophecies about the Messiah and the new system as well as lessons we can learn from people who did or didn’t love God and neighbour.

      Is that reasonable?

      Most Christian religions have found some way they are unique, be it by using God’s name, keeping the original Sabbath, speaking in tongues, etc, which is superfluous to the main teaching of faith in Jesus which leads to salvation.

      • outandabout says:

        Ricardo……right….so it’s all about Jesus and the rest is a smorgasbord to do what one chooses depending on interpretation and what one feels comfortable with. Wouldn’t that make religious fundamentalism a choice rather than a requirement? Can we do away with all this bigotry and judgement? Can the bible be reduced to one page reading – ‘Be nice to one another’? We do that naturally, anyway….ever seen an unhappy baby? Bigotry, judgement, hatred and righteousness are taught, not inherited.

        • PaxRomana says:

          Curiously, you are talking about bigotry but I am having difficulty understanding the context. Current and former Witnesses have grave concerns about the organization and its leadership, it’s doctrines and it’s rules, it’s unwillingness to engage in meaningful conversation that is critical of them, and sadly with this article and many others – avoiding any responsibility or accountability for the environment they created that allows for sexual predators to victimize men and women, boys and girls, by the *thousands*. Being critical of them with the above concerns in mind isn’t bigotry – it’s human. Perhaps I misunderstood your context though.

  14. Resister says:

    OK, let’s put all the cards on the table once and for all. The Watchtower Society is nothing but a patriarchal, hierarchical oligarchy where only the most snot-nosed kiss-ass PUNKS rise to the upper levels.

    Much like, say, the North Korean regime, there is no tangible, substantive ideology or philosophy of life (other than demonizing the rest of the world and threatening them with fire and fury from above), only bull$hit propaganda designed to keep their masses psychologically enslaved.

    • outandabout says:

      A fair comparison, Resister. Most North Korean’s believe their Dear Leader gets around on a rainbow and never has to use the toilet. According to state propaganda, the current Kim’s old man scored five holes in one in the first round of golf he’d ever played. Of course Western media couldn’t resist a headline ‘Epic loss to golf’ upon the guy’s death.
      Nth Korea has also been compared to the promised fundamentalists Paradise of Brain Atrophying Endless Boredom but with Nth Korea being the favored option because there, you can at least die to escape it.
      Goebbels, the German propaganda minister for the Nazi’s once said; ‘a lie told once remains a lie, but a lie repeated continuously becomes the truth’.
      Or Queen Nefertiti of Egypt, who wished to become a God, just kept repeating she was one until in the eye’s of her subjects, she was.
      Or the WT, who just keep repeating they are gods visible gig on Earth and the sheeple just suck it up and feel sooooo lucky for their free gift of being chosen to be scammed by this particular gravy train.
      Still, some people love the club atmosphere. Where else would they go anyway? What if Armageddon comes and they’re out on open ground between cults? Very risky.

    • Gameisover says:

      resister, you say it so well. Keep writing.

      • Resister says:

        Thank you. I could literally go on & on for days, but my fingers would probably fall off. 😀

    • Ricardo says:

      @Resister, have you ever tried working that into an answer at the kingdom hall? I think someone should try.

  15. steve says:

    Watchtower are pure hell

  16. Resister says:

    Here’s a nice piece of advice I just heard:

    If you want to soar like an eagle, you’ve got to stop hanging out with turkeys.

  17. Peter Kahan says:

    I run a small company in Scotland and I am currently grappling with the General Data Protection Regulations. These new regulations apply from 25th May in all countries in the EU including the UK. I suspect the form circulating in kingdom halls is to do with these new regulations.

    If my understanding is correct the new regulations place a requirement on organisations to provide details of the data they hold on individuals within 30 days of any request to see the data. This may represent a means of extracting the child abuse files from the Netherlands branch office.

    I think it would also be worth studying Watchtowers privacy notice as this should state specifically what information is held on individuals.

  18. Doc Obvious says:

    What does it mean to be shunned, or disfellowshipped? It means that if you have friends or family in the religion, the Watchtower will use your friends and family as a pawn in order to force you back into the religion. Several people call this conditional relationships in the religion.

    In addition, the people who are doing the shunning are not suppose to communicate, or associate with the person who is shunned. Several psychologists, often refer to these tactics as being bullied.

    Are the Jehovah’s Witnesses the only religion to deploy shunning? Sadly, the answer is no. Scientologists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Mormons also use shunning as well.

    Therefore, when the Jehovah’s Witnesses come knocking on your door, or you see their carts filled with the latest Smurf literature featuring happy things. Please think about the shunning aspect. Actually question them about it. Shunning does not make a good selling point for the religion.

    • Resister says:

      On a related note, Doc, Watchturd uses terror tactics to keep people “in”. I.E. The myth that, if a JW leaves the Borg or is kicked out, the Big Bad World is gonna get ’em. “Satan” will be waiting at the exit to the kingdom hall with his pitchfork, ready to pounce. All the Evil “Worldly” Monsters will take note and begin converging on the poor, defenseless lost sheep, like zombies eager to feast on someone’s brain. LMAO OK, maybe I exaggerste a bit, but that’s really not that far from the scenario Watchturd presents to its poor deluded members. It reminds me of what occurred during the Battle of Okinawa in WWII, when American forces invaded that Japanese island. The Japanese government & military did such a fantastic job of convincing (brainwashing) the local population that the Americans would go on a rampage of rape, torture, and murder, that many thousands of Japanese civilians killed their families and themselves, hurling their children, then themselves, off cliffs, etc, to avoid the oncoming American Scourge.
      Of course, a cynical prick like myself would be the last to say that this world is anywhere close to a Utopia. We certainly have our share of disreputable, dishonest, even dangerous people. Yes, there are some real scumbags in this world. I myself find it a challenge to navigate the waters of society these days. That having been said, it is still VASTLY preferable to being a slave to a mind-controlling, energy-sucking, emotion-draining cult. At the very least, I know I am alive and free.
      And anyway, what is life without growth and risk? How do you grow without taking risks? Our society is overly obsessed with “security”. It’s almost all you here about. Security from what, exactly? North Korea’s 12 or 13 nuclear warheads versus our FIFTEEN HUNDRED??? C’mon. Have we all forgotten how Math works? What happened to the old mantra of “no guts, no glory”? I think that anyone who believes they can live their life by avoiding or circumventing risk, is delusional.

  19. Garth says:

    According to the reports I have read, the group forming Reclaimed Voices is made up of people that are still in the organisation, i.e. current members. Have I understood this correctly? If so, how are they being perceived and treated by the Congregations/Branch etc?

  20. Umuhakanyi says:

    I am afraid Jah-Jehovah knows that “The sex drive is a most powerful force” (https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1964163?q=%22The+sex+drive+is+a+most+powerful+force%22&p=par) and he/she is using the same force to kill our children. (1 Samuel 15:1-3) . . .now listen to what Jehovah has to say. 2 This is what Jehovah of armies says: ‘I will call to account the A·malʹek·ites for what they did to Israel when they opposed them along their way coming up from Egypt. 3 Now go, and strike down the A·malʹek·ites, and devote them to destruction along with all that they have. You must not spare them; you are to put them to death, man as well as woman, child as well as infant, bull as well as sheep, camel as well as donkey.’”

    The biggest mistake the whole world is making is to ignore that Jehovah does not change.

  21. Geoff says:

    This is just crazy.

  22. Resister says:

    OMG!!! New material! Thank you, Lloyd, for the YouTube clip about Losch. And thank you, Governing Body, for being so mind-buggeringly stupid. 😀
    So Garrett Losch just visited Canada. Hey Garrett, What up man? You hunting Cougar now? Dirty Old Man. Or should I say, Sexy Senior Citizen.
    Where is Donald Trump and his Travel Ban when you need them? I thought he wanted to keep fanatics out of the country. Hey Donnie baby, don’t let the Loschster back into USA. At least until you have personally given him a full body cavity search. Add a bottle of Dom, and I’m certain the two of you will have a night to remember!
    😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

    • Resister says:

      I’m having so much fun right now. 😀
      Garrett Losch: “Go to college and you’ll answer to Jehovah.”
      Me: “Hey Garrett, answer to THIS.”
      Sorry. I just HAD to.

      • Resister says:

        I totally agree, Lloyd. That story about the guy with OCD who shot himself, was an absolutely ridiculous analogy to use. Absolutely mindless comparison. I can’t even think of an analogy to illustrate how absurd THAT analogy was! Have these people lost their minds? Ha! I think we all know the answer to that.
        PS … When did all these Troglodytes forget how to speak In coherent terms?
        EG. “…the bullet operation…” … The “bullet operation”??? W…T…F? Speak English, dude. Or ANY language. Just make it make sense.
        A couple of Trump-isms to further illustrate:
        “We need to focus on cyber security as well as the nuclear.” What??? Do I have wax in my ears?
        “You relied on years of training and safety. You knew how to land that plane.” Again, sounds like gibberish. “years of training and safety”??? Am I back in Kindergarten? Again, WTF?
        “It’s going to be a very loving Bill. It will be a Bill of love.” Cheque, please!
        Perhaps we SHOULD put Kindergarteners in charge. At least THEY will be too busy fingerpainting to screw up the world.

  23. Doc Obvious says:

    When people followed the stupid ones prior to 1975, they felt that the end was really going to happen. Once they realized that the system was continuing after 1975, people either left Watchtower or were left in financial ruin by listening to these people.

    Even today hundreds of people were left with no retirement savings and have to keep working past their retirement age. All because people put too much trust in Watchtower Babble and Tract Society’s ideology.

    My father used his power of reason and common sense. He realized that if this 1975 prophecy failed that he could be a bum if he followed Watchtower Babble and Tract Society too closely. That is why he instilled in me to go to a local school to learn a skill after high school. How thankful I am that he pointed me in that direction. Never would I trust the tower.

    • Big B says:

      Your Dad handed out some very good advice, Doc.

      The press for more field ministry was in full swing by the late 1960’s; advanced education, marriage, having children in the ‘old system of things’ was greatly discouraged if not frowned upon altogether. The friends put off living their lives to waste time “pioneering” giving up successful businesses, lucrative carers, and homes to chase, what has turned out to be, an illusion.

      I managed to get a certificate in drafting which helped me somewhat and much, much latter (39 years latter) returned to the university to get my bachelors degree. I graduated cum laude with a major in political science and a minor in history. Immediately afterwards I received almost $15K per year increase just by having this degree which helped my family out immensely.

      To many JW’s have listened to the siren song of a dancing panda paradise earth and new system of things only to see the “inside of their eyeballs” at death. No education, no monetary security, no children or grandchildren basically a life wasted in a cult with absolutely no reward.

      The 8 mental midgets of Warwick make promises for Jehovah but can’t deliver on those promises and He won’t either! It’s always just around the corner; some corner, any time now. Promises made on suppositions are never going to be fulfilled. There is absolutely NO TRUTH in THE TRUTH, period. It’s a sham, and nobody alive today will live to see this Judaeo/Christian mythology realized. It’s all vanity and a striving after the wind.

  24. Resister says:

    For anyone who’s interested, here is a little more footage of Garrett Losch’s sermon at Canadian Bethel:

    https://youtu.be/kfyHUrL2O6g

  25. Resister says:

    Here’s some secret footage of restructuring proceedings at Canadian Bethel, per Garrett Losch’s visit. At this point, I really can’t say who is who.

    https://youtu.be/8BoJSbyq5xw

  26. eyes opened says:

    So I watched the video posted about the Canadian Branch visit. It is horrific! How divisive toward families to suggest parents are just selfish. But the part I found so disturbing was the illustration of the person with OCD. That was beyond terrible to use that story and to hear the audience laugh. Having an associate that struggled with OCD, which is an anxiety disorder, it is no laughing matter. I certainly am no doctor, but I question whether a bullet could cure OCD because it’s a chemical imbalance in the brain. Fortunately for my friend appropriate mental health care and a brief time on meds helped to get to the point of understanding the disorder and being able to cope. But it was disgusting to hear the use of a difficult and life altering disorder used in such a cavalier and unsympathetic way. Shame on these men who are so out of touch with reality. Living in their ivory tower has stunted them mentally and robbed them of all compassion and decency. They print articles on who they think are mentally diseased. Who knew we would see real life examples whenever we see the GB! Their delusions of grandeur are just that…delusions.

    Regards

    • outandabout says:

      I guess the moral of the story is don’t follow the Bible too closely. Take it with a pinch of salt and imagine what life in the first century was like and how Bible stories relate to that era and whether or not they are relevant today.
      So thank you Watchtower for showing us what happens when the Bible is followed too closely. The results of the experiment are all too clear. Can we continue with the development of our species now? Or do we stay stuck in one place repeating the same stuff over and over like superstitious ignorant goat herders living in 1st Century third world conditions…..that’s just how they were.
      I’m sure there must be a place somewhere for like minded people to go and do just that. Let them have their Fundamentalist ruled paradise in waiting stripped of all modern convenience and filled with biblical bigotry, judgement and punishments and see how long before they’re eager to escape hell. The Middle East is a fine example of this and yet nobody seems to notice.

      • Resister says:

        Nice points, outy. Who would want to live in a place like Saudi Arabia or Iran? And if JWs hate this world so much, why don’t they separate themselves, like the Amish??? I mean, they could still preach. Even the Amish still go into town for trade or whatever. It always makes me laugh how Watchturd thinks they’re fooling everyone by having one foot in each camp. No, guys, we see you. It’s like, “we’re no part of the world, but we still are, kinda sorta.” LMAO

        • Resister says:

          In case anyone didn’t know, fundamentalist islamic states have their own “Religious Police”, with pseudonyms like “Guidance Patrol” or “General Presidency for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice”. Sounds like a fun bunch of guys. ‘1984’ much?
          I guess in our part of the world, that “mission” would be carried out by JW or FLDS “Elder” types. Hey guys, why don’t you get yourselves a snazzy logo, and drive around in marked vehicles like they do in the Middle East, so everyone can gaze in awe?

          • outandabout says:

            The WT is a fine example of Religious Police and they firmly believe they are the highest power on Earth in waiting. At the moment they’re enforcing what they can get away with in todays world, but give them full control and there would be a dramatic change in a generation or two. Snitches and whispers and witch hunts everywhere. A race to see who can be the most pious. Adults playing like children and all sanctioned by scripture so no room for argument. Back to the Dark Ages. Any takers?

  27. Resister says:

    Don’t mean to flood this page with crazy YouTube clips, but this is too precious. A reimagining of the Nativity story. https://youtu.be/YqMnTzOoZfk

  28. PaxRomana says:

    The Watchtower’s antics might have worked 20 years ago. But everyone now with an internet connection, including prosecutors and government authorities, can research the vast scope of sexual abuse in the organization. And they can watch as the Society weaves around their failed responsibility to report sexual criminals to authorities. I am so glad to not be a Witness anymore. Among the many reasons – pedophiles are the worst of humanity, and Watchtower gave them a sort of sanctuary with their 2 witness rule and forcing victims to face their predator. There is nothing loving about this. There’s no way a perfect true religion led by Jesus himself would knowingly allow pedos in their midst, and that’s exactly what Watchtower has done. Multi-million settlements, paid for by members with little formal education and income. It’s a disgrace. I hope this finally wakes people up from their very sad brainwash slumber.

  29. Resister says:

    Speaking of the Middle East and islam, anyone else notice that judaism, christianity, and islam are basically 3 versions of the same religion? I mean, even the muslims believe in the O.T, including Moses, Abraham, Isaac, and their god. They even believe Jesus was a prophet. The Jews believe their religion is the most up-to-date, at least until their “Meschiak” arrives (I wouldn’t hold my breath). The christians believe their religion is the natural extension of judaism, hence the most current religion. The muslims believe THEIR religion is the natural extension of christianity, hence the most current, updated version. (This is starting to sound like Microsoft Windows.) Yet, if you ignore all the minor, crazy details and fairy tales, they all have much more in common than not. They all worship Yahweh (“Allah” is just the Arabic word for God). They are all patriarchal, hierarchical, misogynistic faiths, each with its own trace of racism. They all have a clergy and a laity class (and of course, JW & FLDS elders qualify as clergy). They all advocate the violent annihilation and/or eternal damnation of unbelievers (infidels). They are all sexually repressive. They all condemn homosexuality as a mortal sin. They all use guilt as a means of control. They all abide by a particular set of “holy” scrolls. And they all believe in a Day of Judgment / End Times / End of Days / End of the World / Armageddon / Rapture / Day of Reckoning, whatever. Did I miss anything? Anyway, that’s enough to clearly see that the Big Three are basically the same religion, or at least, 3 versions of the same religion.
    When I was in high school (back in the Stone Age lol), I took a business class. This was back in the days of the Big Three American auto makers. I still remember something the teacher, Mr. Campbell, told us. He said something like, “Do you really think Chrysler, Ford, and GM really compete against each other? Well, not as much as you think. Every year, all their top exec’s get together for a nice little Pow-Wow to fix prices, determine warranty periods, decide how long the service life of each part on their respective products should be, etc. Sure, they compete, but they also conspire.”
    Of course, that was commerce, and at least those companies were producing something the public could use – cars. They didn’t come into people’s bedrooms and dictate what sexual positions were OK or not OK between you and your wife / husband.

    • Resister says:

      Speaking of the Middle East, we really need to watch Iran. I think they want war. Have you noticed how close they put their country to our bases?

    • PaxRomana says:

      I suppose there is some hyperbole here. If I take your post literally, you are basically indicating that 3.5 billion Abrahamic followers are racist misogynists. Not really on board with that, but yes all 3 are similar at least in that they worship the same diety, just in very different ways.

      • Resister says:

        I was focusing more on the religions than the practitioners. Though not all of the “believers” practise their faith to the same level of adherence and strictness, I think the negative influences would be difficult for any “believer” to completely ignore.

  30. Ricardo says:

    @outandabout, at my judicial committee hearing I was told off for a comment I made at the meeting where I said I was disappointed in Bro Lett asking for donations. The chairman told me that Bro Lett is going to be not only ruling the earth but ruling the universe, and the only thing that stops him doing so now is his flesh. Yet I was so bold to speak against this glorious one (2 Peter 2) and against the elders, leaders of God’s people who are also glorious ones.

    Looks like you have trouble, like me, accepting that flawed men are leading this organization.

    You need to focus on the positive aspects of those taking the lead. Joy is a fruitage of the spirit and if you have this joy your whole outlook and way of acting will be different. It is obvious you don’t have joy at the moment.

    Perhaps your association and the influence of this site is making you critical.

    • outandabout says:

      yeah, thanks, Ricardo….haha… I have no trouble whatsoever accepting and understanding that flawed men run the Org. They are the result of Extreme Belief further complicated by Galloping Sign Anxiety and both these conditions go hand in hand and feed off each other and each condition ratchets the intensity of the other up and up until complete delusion occurs.
      The only known cure is complete honesty, but these people and millions like them left that behind a long time ago. They have a dream of escaping the natural process of dying and nothing takes greater importance. They’re literally hanging on for dear life. To wake up is to die and thats a very powerful motivation and they’ll sweep as much logic and common sense under the carpet as required and no lie is too big so long as it keeps the promise alive.
      Did you see that 104 yr old Australian academic travelling to Switzerland to end his life? He’s had a good life, he still has his marbles but the quality is not there anymore and he wants out. He accepts death. We slowly fade out until acceptance is easy. Natures way. I have no problem with me dying one day and the only thing that concerns me is the way I die. I wouldn’t want to die in a fiery car wreck or similar, but once I’m dead, I won’t be laying there thinking “bummer!, I’m dead”. There will be nothing. Nothing lives forever, Ricardo and the only constant is change but if you want your last thought on your deathbed to be you’re going to a better place, you’re welcome to it. Find a balance.

      • Resister says:

        Ha! “Galloping Sign Anxiety” – GSA. Add that to the growing list of “witness” diseases like depression, fibromyalgia, and wives with “bad backs”.

        PS just re-watched that Family Guy Nativity clip.
        “We are 3 wise men. We followed a star to come here.”
        “Those 2 statements contradict each other.”
        LMAO

    • Donald J Emperor of the Known Universe says:

      Stephen Lett will rule the Universe one day??
      OUTRAGEOUS

      • outandabout says:

        it would have to be a very small Universe that fits inside a human head……which is exactly all it is.

  31. Whip It says:

    Yep that did it for me, scary isnt it, i have only seen him on some youtube clips as i dont go onto the Borg site, he is absolutely ridiculous.

    • Ricardo says:

      @Whip It, the chairman of my judicial said that Bro Lett must have learned humility from the difficulty he has with his facial expressions .

      • Resister says:

        Ha ha. So I guess they’re telling us he suffers from DED – Dancing Eyebrow Disorder. Add that to the list.

  32. Whip It says:

    Ricardo, Lett is a freak show on legs, my bet a pedo as well, we 1st saw him at the Sydney International in what 2001?, we called him the Dentel Man from the idiot on tv doing those commercials, if an Elder said that to me in a committee hearing i would just laugh, coudnt stop myself, when are coming back to OZ? Peace my Brother.

    • Ricardo says:

      Maybe early next year. I got to go to India and find a nice Hindu lady to marry. As I am d’fed I don’t need to marry in the lord. Maybe I can come to your congregation, you can say you are studying with me and I can become an unbaptized publisher.

  33. Whip It says:

    Ricardo, that how dumb it is, you nailed it on the head, you could change your name, re come back & progress to be an elder & when you get their you can tell them the truth, i have a full beard now & when i do go to the occasional meeting they wont even talk to me, Loving Shepherds, as for the Canadian bethel thing, look up the 1969 Awake 5/22/page15, same worn out warning about pursuing higher education,

    • Ricardo says:

      @Whip It, in the judicial, the elders went back to events that happened in 1997 (21 years ago) to show me my pattern of negativity. When I mention the abuse I have received from elders, they say: Put it behind you. But they don’t put anything behind them, they have it all written down in a report going back decades. Even a question I asked an elder while on field service about the GB changing its understanding of terms like generation was recorded.

      The elders told me at the end of the judicial that they would not make it easy for me to return. Given that the elders have such extensive records on any question or misdemeanor I have committed since getting baptized, it is questionable if it is even worth trying to come back. In Australia my friend Richard Lee has been d’fed for more than 10 years; the elders won’t let him back. He has been applying for years. The elders asked him to write a letter of apology, and after he wrote that they still wouldn’t let him back. The elders told him if he wants to be reinstated he must stop preaching, stop talking to other witnesses and leave Bro Roper the elder alone.

      Why bother to go through all that? Just get baptized again and start off with a clean page. That’s my plan. I’ve been away from OZ so long nobody much knows me. They may know my family, but with my accent they usually don’t recognise me. I haven’t made up my mind what I am doing yet, but taking the mickey out of this organization appeals to me.

      • Markie says:

        But why do you want to come back? Those elders that said they will make it hard for you are very unchristian. And if there is any truth to any of this, they will be judged they way that they judge. So good luck to them.

      • Big B says:

        Ricardo;

        Ricardo you’re free; why would you want to return? It won’t bring you any closer to your family, as the bell (your attitude) has been rung. You can’t un-ring the bell. Everyone knows you for what you are, a whiner and constant complainer against the elders, the organization and the so called “Christian brotherhood”. Your brother, the elder would know why you’re coming back and would still shun you. If you think any differently, that you will just slide back inside like nothing ever happened, then you are just fooling yourself. You will NEVER be reinstated as you committed the most egregious of all offensives ever; namely handing out a poster to one of the so called “glorious ones”. I know of murders in prison serving for life that were reinstated and believe me pal, your chances are nil. There is a saying that goes like this “say it FORGET it, write it REGRET it”.

        Your example of Richard Lee, after giving the elders exactly what they wanted (a proper arse kissing) is still no better off than if he told them to take their cult religion and “shove it where the sun doesn’t shine”. But no, he continues to prove that he can’t live without the organization. Does sucking up get you anywhere, how about groveling, how is that working out for Richard? However, he still continues debasing himself. Why? Because he is a moron and a damn fool! He probably thinks this is God’s earthly Organization and better get back in before Armageddon starts. So we can add total disillusionment to his moronic foolishness as well.

        What makes no sense is that you think Richard Lee should “get baptized again and start off with a clean slate”!!! ??? Ricardo, you’ve got to be kidding. Do you think that you can get away with that nonsense anywhere in the world within this Orwellian Distopia? That’s just plain naivety! He would eventually be found out. He couldn’t move far enough away before he would be recognized. I guarantee it. Once found out the elders would report him to the worldwide headquarters at Warwick which would then warn other congregations about this “nut-case”.

        For example: years ago, there was a Mormon posing as an interested one who was trying, in several congregations in the Richmond, VA area, to get sisters to marry him. He did not reveal that he was a practicing Mormon, just an ‘interested one’ studying the Bible to become a J.W. His plan was to marry a J.W. sister then convert his J.W. wife into becoming a Mormon. He tried engaging sisters in several congregations until a District warning was dispensed to all congregations about this ‘activity’ of his. Obviously, with the elders on the look-out he faded from view.

        My question to you and anyone else is this: Why anyone desires to go back to this deceitful, non-christian Adventist cult, run by the Evil Slave? They would qualify as a masochistic loser and totally deserve the ridicule and contempt they get from those inside the sect and outside.

        Once Free, Stay FREE!

        Big B

  34. Whip It says:

    As i have said before i am trapped due to Family & a few close friends who i love as people, but if any of that changed tomorrow i would be gone in a flash, i am a quiet fadder who is left alone, but i know that they would have a file on me, noting all the info for that day they wish would happen, Back room, as i said earlier Ricardo you were already disfellowshipped before your meeting, even though i don’t believe the Bible anymore apart from the good clean living stuff i do like to remind people that those elders are going to be judged on how they treat the flock.

    • Big B says:

      Many of the friends are in the same boat as you are Whip It; families being held hostage by a crazy religious cult with their so called “shunning policy”. Fading is probably the best way to leave this stupid sect as it causes great consternation for the elders who can’t place you in their disassociated file without a formal letter of “disassociation”; which leaves the elders in a quandary as to what to do with you. Are you inactive, disassociated, spirituality sick, uninterested or what? Try as they might they can’t get me or my family to officially write the damn disassociation letter! Why not? Because that’s what the elders desire and that’s why we don’t give them what they want. We refuse to follow their damn rules, period!

      Yes, just as Jesus was tried and found guilty long before his trial, Ricardo’s hearing was just a formality for the sake of following a written procedure. His continued pursuit of getting even with the elders or “taking the mickey out of the organization” borders on lunacy. Ricardo, “you can’t f**k a f**ker” (pardon the profanity but that is the saying), trying to do so will come to naught and you will regret it.

      To all, enjoy the family you have! Reconnect with family that are not Witnesses. Those shunning you are NOT your family or your friends, truly. Those Watchtower followers are cultists and brainwashed losers! Find new friends, enjoy new hobbies and interests. Try to involve yourself in hobbies at the same time period as your former meetings so there isn’t a void in that time slot. Otherwise when that time arrives, you will have time to reflect on where the cult demands you to be, wasting your life at the stupid Kingdom Hall taking in more nonsense and the purple haze of indoctrination posing as “truth”.

      You, dear friends, and you alone have the power to change your life; not the damn elders, not the stupid congregation, or the miserable sheeple that frequent the Hall! So get to it! You can either start living or start dying as life does not stand still!

      Once free, stay Free!

      Big B

      • Ricardo says:

        @Big B, your advice is clear, sensible, logical and reasonable. So much so that I can find no way to refute it. You are obviously emotionally concerned about those in situations like mine.

        Thank you for your thoughts. They are quite persuasive.

        The leaders of the congregations are real jerks. The whole organization must collapse; we just can watch and feel content as the incompetence takes its course.
        I am really sick of all the abuse. Those who could do something to fix it seem to like it the way it is. They aren’t the ones who are hurt so they just don’t care. I can’t see how it can be fixed when the leaders are just making it worse. It is really sick and sickening.

        • Big B says:

          Ricardo buddy, it’s like anything else in life; pouring money into old cars, failed marriages, stupid nonsense, etc. Old habits die hard. You must go through the stages of anger, denial, grief, etc. However, like so many things in life, you finally outgrow them, realizing that you really can live without Watchtower control and move on believing what you want, doing whatever you want guilt free.

          You finally see “the truth” for what it is, a complete waste of time and money better spent on making memories and good times with your son. You are not under the Watchtower f.o.g. (fear, obligation and guilt) anymore.

          You can’t fix what God is removing anymore than the first century Jewish system could be fixed because, for the same reason, God rejected it. Rome did in the Jewish system of the first century and governments are doing in the Watchtower in the twenty first century through the courts.

          The elders can’t or won’t fix what they don’t know and don’t see as a problem. They are as Jesus called the elders and spiritual shepherds of his day “blind guides leading the blind”. And believe me, “there are none so blind as those that REFUSE to see.” Just like my elders, nice guys but totally ignorant and want to remain so. If ignorance is bliss then they’re ecstatic!

          Be kind to yourself, give yourself the required time to grieve and then ‘move on’. As my wife once told me, “build a bridge and get over it”. Great advice, that. Do the suggestions I wrote above and fill your life with fun things for you and your son to do! Never look back, only cultish slavery is behind you.

          Just remember that true Christian freedom is not free, it comes at a price. That’s just the way it is. Good luck to you and remember, this is the first day of the rest of your life!

          Big B

        • Hi Ricardo,

          I tend to avoid using the world “cult” to describe high-control groups. The word is pejorative, but the bigger problem is how people tend to think of cults. It tends to generate this cartoon view of people who are members of these groups. As if they’re mindless drones willing to believe or do anything in support of the group they belong.

          The truth is The Branch Davidians and The People’s Temple were populated by sincere and thinking individuals who became convinced they had found the truth. They had good reasons to resist critical views of their group by outsiders or sober personal reflection. They had made deep personal investment and any break from the group would have destroyed their world, left them without community, and inject them into a future with no clear path forward.

          The initial steps in joining are like falling in love and getting married. Every step one-by-one confirms to the new one the path they’re on is the right one. Unfortunately the demands the high-control group is making for loyalty is not given back in return. Neither to the individual or the claims of truth. Thus as one begins to wake up and raise questions they run into abuse and the horrid discovery the group is not what it claims to be. This process is like getting a divorce. The end results can be healthy — very healthy actually — but painful to process.

          For about six months after leaving I literally felt like I was losing my mind. I took up running and that helped a lot. I had started a new job a few months prior and since I love my work I found that satisfying too. Running round and round the track early in the morning I composed many imaginary letters to the GB.

          Slowly the fog lifted and I found my way forward. I made many discoveries about both myself and the wider world. One of the most amazing things was finally being able to really listen to people and accept them for who they are. I discovered the world is way wider, but perhaps a bit cooler, than the close-knit community of JWs I had left. Yet even after 10 years out there are still times I mourn the loss of good friends and family members who shun us. But I also realize there is absolutely no way back. One cannot unlearn what they discover in the process of deconstructing their flawed beliefs.

          Hang in there Ricardo! The leaving process is not easy, but attempting to remain in a faith you know is false would be much worse.

          Take care,
          -Randy

  35. Doc Obvious says:

    Anthony Morris III and Watchtower using Jesus Christ as a CEO is interesting. Then, the publishers would be the Customer. The Governing Body would be the upper management. The Elders would be lower management.

    Let me ask a few questions. What would happen if a CEO found out that millions of U.S. Dollars were gone from his company? How would a CEO react if he found out that there were court cases where large settlements were a negative impact on his/her bottom line? How would the CEO feel if the customers were leaving because the company’s service was in decline? Would the CEO be justified in laying off the upper management due to poor performance?

    In the real world, CEO’s do just that. If the CEO found out that the company’s legal department was causing huge issues, their employment may be terminated. If the upper management could not get the job done, they would be gone too. Elders would also be let go as well.

    See Anthony, your illustration was a good one. But, you needed to add more to your illustration.

    • Big B says:

      What about this anology, Doc. We can’t forget the “stockholders” or “shareholders”. They would demand an immediate change in the board membership. However, I believe that Jesus would be the ‘owner of the company’ and CEO with the Governing Body serving as the board of directors. The owner would listen to the share holders and remove members of the board of directors in addition to upper management “elders” found to be incompetent.

      Actually the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is a corporation without stockholders or shareholders. Thus their adherents have absolutely no stake or say in anything, period. However they can do like many shareholders, vote with their feet ….by leaving!

  36. Vidiot says:

    This is almost perfect, inasmuch as the WTS is practically digging their own grave.

    The more “apostates” and “Satan’s World” push the Org to cooperate, the harder the Org will dig in and resist, purely on (woefully misguided) principle…

    …which can’t help but get them in more and more trouble in the long run.

    What’re they gonna do when “Jehovah” doesn’t drop the Big A and bail ’em out…

    …and instead, lets ’em go broke paying out settlements and losing their tax-exemption?

  37. Resister says:

    Doc O., interesting account of ToMo of the GB using JC as the CEO of WT.
    Kinda gives me the impression that the GB think of the WTBTS as a sort of “spiritual WalMart”.

    Big B, I respect your tactic of not giving the Schmelders what they want by not submitting a Letter of Disassociation. That really is sticking it to them. However, something to think about – if JWs in your country are ever persecuted, thrown in jail, shot, whatever, you’ll probably want to be as far from them as possible. You know how government bureaucrats are. With them, it’s always, “Are your paperz in order?” (sorry for the German accent – seen too many WWII movies 😀 ) If they can’t secure definitive proof that you’re no longer a JW (they’ll probably be raiding every congregation’s files), you may end up in deep doodoo as well. Even the Schmelders may say that you’re still technically “in”, either because they believe it, or just out of spite, to drag you down with them. Misery loves company. If you live in a Western democracy, don’t think it can’t happen. Remember what happened to the Witnesses in Quebec, Canada under Duplessis? We’ve already been subjected to more than our share of unnecessary suffering and abuse. If anyone is considering submitting a Letter of Disassociation, my personal advice is, Submit early, Submit often!

    • Big B says:

      Yes, Resister, your advice is well taken. They did manage at one time here in the USA to arrest the Governing Body and hold them in the Federal Penitentiary in Atlanta, Georgia. That being said, if threatened by the government with punishment or incarceration, I would denounce the organization vocally or in writing in a proverbial New York second if push came to shove.

      What baffles me is this; I live on a busy thoroughfare in my community here in the Norfolk Virginia area, home of the Atlantic Fleet and NATO command transformation, anyone going down my street can see my “stars and stripes” flying or other holiday decorations displayed. I decorate my home, inside and outside, proudly with whatever is appropriate for the season or national, secular or ‘religious’ holidays. Valentine’s Day, Saint Patrick’s Day, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Halloween, Armistice Day, Thanksgiving, X-Mas, I celebrate and decorate for all of them, as I enjoy doing so. Anyone that comes down my street can see my home decorated, tastefully not gaudy or tacky, as I don’t have anything to hide from anybody. Nothing illegal or immoral going on here, just living the American dream and loving life. Any Witnesses who know me, and they all know of me and my family, know exactly where I live and can visit me whenever they wish.

      Hell, I even vote, and remind others to do the same. Those that don’t vote have no cause for complaint. Dissatisfaction with the status quo, in a democratic republic, is remedied at the ballot box, period. No armed revolt necessary! And if that doesn’t work to your satisfaction then you can run for office yourself!

      Everyone should get active by doing something in the community and stop waiting for Armageddon to come and solve everything. Community Crime Watch, adopting a street and picking up trash, recycling paper and cans of aluminum, volunteering to read to children at libraries or schools is always in demand. Visiting the elderly in nursing home with flowers or reading to them should not be discounted either. Those things help people right now; not witnessing (selling literature) from door to door on your own dime concerning some future event no one will live to see.

      No one would believe that I was ever associated with the Jehovah’s Witnesses and if my home were searched no publications of theirs would implicate me or my family as having sympathies towards the organization.

      Those who want to shun me, like my mother in law, can do so. That goes for anyone of the so called ‘friends’ worshiping inside the hypocritical house of love bombing snitches and Pharisees. But by handing the elders what they most desire, a resignation/ disassociation letter, to make their lives “easier” well that ain’t gonna happen. However, I will definitely take your council under advisement as one never knows WHEN the government will turn on this sect. Notice I said ‘when’, not IF.

      Big B

  38. P Smith says:

    The solution is to apply for a court order that the data be furnished, within a time limit. The court order should name the legally registered body responsible for the congregation where the data is held. Where the elders of the congregation might not be accountable in law, the court order would be served on the body that is.

  39. Resister says:

    In spite of everything, my mom still talks to me once in a blue moon. Last night we had a short chat about world events, because the only thing we really have in common is 1. the world, and 2. its events. She declared, “Soon the world will know who Jehovah is.” I said, “They sure will.”

    Wouldn’t it be something if religious addiction was declared a mental illness?

  40. Alone in MD says:

    Off subject but in the U.S. May 29 1000 to 1100 EDT on the A&E channel they will be broadcasting the story of Romy White a former JW and child abuse survivor and her journey to uncover why her pleas for help were ignored by top members of the organization. The title of the series is Cults and Extreme Beliefs.

    • Big B says:

      @ Alone in MD;

      I saw the program last evening and was disappointed that it didn’t go far enough to expose the egregious practices of the Watchtower Society. The ARC in Australia, I don’t believe was mentioned, maybe in passing but so much information could have been uncovered but wasn’t. Although the program only had one hour to make a show, much time was wasted with the one victim, Romy White, to make a serious impact on any viewers, or any active members of Jehovah’s Witnesses. My wife and I came to this same opinion.

      Romy White was shown to be, even now, a little girl still “scared to death” after all these years and still would not betray her molester by turning him in. I understand why the show would avoid a lawsuit but I hoped a footnote at the end of the program would have mentioned her going to the authorities with her story but unfortunately it was not to be. Maybe the statue of limitations has already passed for the predator to be convicted? I surmised that her molester may have been her father or another close family member. Her mother had passed away several years ago and, for some reason, according to the narrative in the program, did not seem to have been confided in. If this is true, why not?

      Anyway, all things considered, I was totally disappointed by Romy White, actually standing in the snow by the front gate at Warwick with disassociation letter in hand waiting for forty damn minutes for one of the Governing Body members to accept her letter! Jesus have pity; how absolutely absurd and naive can anyone possibly be. A Governing Body member accepting a letter of disassociation from a disgruntled ‘sheeple’ in the snow outside by the front gate? Really Romy? Maybe this action empowered her or makes for good TV story telling but by giving them this letter she unknowingly showed that she was still “dancing to the Watchtower Society’s tune”, following their rules to the letter and to the very end!

      She gave her letter to the gatekeeper and she the producer and cameraman drove away with our victim Romy sighing in relief. Sadly, this is how the program ended.