Readers of JW Survey will be familiar with the work of Trey Bundy, an investigative reporter working for the Reveal News organisation. Bundy has been tireless in trying to bring to light the truth behind multiple and long standing accusations of child abuse coverup by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, and has published a number of excellent articles on the subject.
Bundy’s latest article, entitled How Jehovah’s Witness leaders hide child abuse secrets at all costs was published alongside the latest episode of the Reveal News podcast, which also featured this story and contained additional material.
The podcast is entitled Secrets of the Watchtower, and reports the efforts of people like Trey Bundy and lawyer Irwin Zalkin to get Watchtower to turn over its detailed files on potentially thousands of JW child molesters that have never been reported to the law, and who may still be at large.
The podcast is excellent and contains a number of relevant interviews relating to the current state of Watchtower’s legal tribulations, but for me one of the highlight moments is an unexpected encounter caught on audio tape between Trey Bundy and Governing Body Member Anthony Morris III.
To set the background, Bundy has been trying for over two years to get an interview with a Governing Body member on this subject so that he can get their side of the story. So far, the seven members of the Governing Body have shown no interest in talking to the media about allegations of serious sexual assaults on children being covered up inside the religion they control. Meanwhile, Bundy meets up with an ex-Bethilite named Howie, who takes him on a walkabout outside Watchtower’s Brooklyn headquarters and who gives a little background on the inner workings of the Watchtower’s leadership.
During this walkabout, Howie spots none other than Governing Body member Tony Morris walking down the street (a more flippant individual might suggest that this was clearly Jehovah’s hand at work.)
Bundy wastes no time in approaching Morris (who attempts to evade him by crossing the street) and tries to get some comments on the allegations of serious sex crimes being covered up by Watchtower.
What does Morris do? Does he stand firm and make a fearless defence of his organisation’s biblically mandated policies? Does he take the opportunity to set the record straight regarding the accusations and “apostate lies” about sex abuse cover-up that have apparently been besmirching the name of Jehovah?
No.
What happens is that Morris scurries frantically away, feebly throwing non-answers in Bundy’s direction in response to the journalist’s legitimate questions. The encounter ends with Morris rushing through a quickly opened Bethel door and out of sight. Not exactly a dignified way to deal with the questions Bundy posed.
The Governing Body: Fearless before opposers?
This fits an established pattern of behaviour from members of the Governing Body. In total contrast to Jesus and his apostles, and indeed in contrast to the early leaders of the religion such as Charles Taze Russell and Joseph Rutherford, the modern Governing Body appear to have no taste for defending their faith publicly before anyone who might be even slightly critical of them.
For example, take a look at Governing Body member Gerrit Losch. When summoned to defend the child protection policies of Watchtower in court, Losch chose not to take the stand and defend Bible principles as he saw them. Indeed, Losch was apparently so terrified of appearing in a court of law, where he would be publicly cross examined, that he even issued a statement essentially claiming that he had nothing to do with Watchtower, and that the running of the religion had nothing to do with him. Anyone who is even slightly familiar with Watchtower can spot this for the absurd and deceptive claim that it is. In fact, it rather reminds one of the apostle Peter, sweating profusely in the courtyard of the High Priest, frantically denying Jesus in order to save his own skin. Sadly, it appears that Losch has yet to follow Peter’s example and retract his denial.
We also have the example set by Governing Body Member Geoffrey Jackson during the historical 2015 Royal Commission hearings. The commission was initially interested in interviewing Jackson; understandable considering the position Jackson holds in the religion and the gravity of the issues being discussed. However, in an astonishing act of deceit, Watchtower Australia tried to claim that Jackson had no involvement in the formulation or revision of the policies under discussion. Again, anyone with knowledge of Watchtower can instantly see how deceitful and misleading this claim is, and thankfully the Commission was provided with evidence which showed this lie for what it was. It should be noted that attempting to mislead a Royal Commission carries a potential 5 year prison sentence.
Watchtower leader Terrence O’Brien admitted giving these misleading instructions to Watchtower’s legal council, but it is impossible to conceive that Jackson was not aware that this deceitful tactic was being attempted, and it is very probable that he was involved in the decision to attempt it.
When Jackson finally appeared at the Commission, clearly left with no choice but to do so or face legal sanctions, he claimed that he was happy to testify. So happy that apparently he was prepared to risk having his underlings go to jail rather than trouble himself to appear. In contrast to Jesus, who offered himself up on behalf of his followers, Jackson appears more than happy to throw his followers under the bus in order to save his own skin.
It appears that Tony Morris can now join the proud ranks of Watchtower leaders who ran away screaming from questions about child abuse.
What is the Governing Body so scared of?
Why is this relevant?
Well, let’s set aside the clear responsibility that any leader of any organisation has to directly address accusations (and indeed countless proven examples) of criminal activity being covered up as a matter of that organisation’s policy.
Lets focus on something else.
The seven men of the Governing Body claim to be the Faithful and Discreet Slave of Matthew chapter 24; the only authorised channel of communication between Jehovah God and mankind. As members of this extra-special part of the “anointed” class, they claim that they will soon go to heaven as mighty spirit creatures and take the lead in killing everyone on Earth who is not a Jehovah’s Witness.
Given their claims to power, spiritual authority and upcoming super-soldier status, it is interesting to note that there appears to be nothing more terrifying to them than an informed person wielding an awkward question.
Update 13/12/2016 – Trey Bundy discusses the story of Watchtower’s coverup further on KPBS radio. You can listen to the broadcast here.
Follow me on twitter @Covertfade
“What is the Governing Body so scared of?”
Perhaps he mistook the male pattern baldness for Devil’s horns? [yeah I went there…]
But, I’m guessing Trey was left holding a sleek Armani suit coat in his hands? [Genesis 39:12]
cmtsu
But, the most probable reason for any GBM or Watchtower rep declining comments or interviews on the street is standard with ANY enterprise establishing policy on whom can and can not offer official comments to the Media. While the Wt HQ no longer has an official Public Relations department, it obviously seeks to control what information it does release to the Media, even now desiring to “plug” leaks to dissenters. And, if practice is any indication, the 5 second or 5 minute media snippet usually is butchered to highlight how naive and obtuse the participant is on the issue presented.
Or, let’s review the outrageous statements AntMo3 has given in the past. A virtual sock gag could be in place, so I’m compelled to NOT participate in any “off the cuff” or “by the seat of my wide pants” remarks unless said remarks have been unanimously approved by the GBM.
Stephen Lett has already spoken for the Governing Body on this subject: “… think about the apostate-driven lies and dishonesties that Jehovah’s organization is permissive toward pedophiles. I mean, that is ridiculous, isn’t it? If anybody takes action against someone who would threaten our young ones, and takes action to protect our young ones, it’s Jehovah’s organization.”
So there you go. Lett says Jehovah’s organization takes action to protect young ones from pedophiles. Lett and his Watchtower Governing Body accomplices claim to be the leaders of Jehovah’s organization, which they have named the Watchtower Corporation. But the Watchtower Corporation does everything it can to protect pedophiles, so Lett is obviously lying.
Anthony Morris III reminds me of the characters in the movie, “Nuns on the Run” with Eric Idle and Robbie Coltrane. The Monty Python boys should do a film on the Watchtower GB. What a bunch of wimps. Big talk when their in front of their people. But, when the crap hits the fan, they are a running like Forest Gump.
At least Gump ran for a worthy cause ;-)
One has to wonder what these men replacing God are hiding. It would appear that this issue may be a little to close to home for these guys? A little too personal maybe?
http://www.ptbonet.com/jwmorris.png
These are the kings of Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Really? More like peons. Kings do not run away from people. Peons do.
@DOC. One of my favourite flicks (and not for the shower scene!).
“Listen! All you need to know about the Trinity is this: God is like a shamrock; small, green, and split three ways!”
Eric & Robbie could teach the GB a thing or two about how to teach effectively!
Sir Morris nearly stood up to the vicious chicken of Bristol…
Brilliant
Yes Londo;
Sir Morris was not afraid to die in many nasty ways;
Brave, Brave, Brave Sir Morris.
With his tight pants pulled down,
and his big butt kicked in,
With his flat bald head polished,
and his teeth caved in,
With his service bag stolen,
and his suit all soiled,
Him totally beholden to get to the door,
Can barely escape from the reporters chore…
Brave, Brave, Brave Sir Morris.
you’re a wit, Big B.
I’ve been waiting for you to write about this. I listened to that podcast the other day. What a powerful piece of journalism & yet delivered in such an understated way.
I’m so glad you touched on the other GB members as well & their gutlessness. How dare Tony Morris get on his soapbox & berate his followers about what is proper & not proper with threats & bragging about killing people when he gets to heaven & how dare Gerrit Losche talk about being truthful at all times.
They’ve shown their true colours & they wear “the 8 woes of hypocrisy” like the Scribes & Pharisees.
To be honest he makes me feel quite nauseous…trapped in this organisation from birth for just over 50 years and my husband and grown children still dancing to their tune and there am I fully awake and unable to say much because of the ever tightening rules on shunning…and there he is that sickening pompous little man who has with his ‘brothers’…made people’s lives a misery…has gloated over the ‘martyrdom’ of those who have refused blood transfusions or rotted in prison across the world because of the organization’s neutral stand…and he can’t even defend his stupid and fatal rules… he took away my youth…I don’t find him just a pathetic figure..he is also a collaborator in this terrible cult…it’s a shame it wasn’t one of our awakened Bethelites behind that door…maybe they would have locked it and left that pompous little man to face Trey.I am really really angry that he didn’t even speak for those poor damaged children now adults…who would ever want this Brother of Jesus to rule over them…thank goodness I’m out of it and my mind is free.
NB…Neutral is said with real Irony by the way.
You like me darling some situations love yo you.
@Wideawake;
Great article Covert Fade!
Res ipsa loquitur they are what they appear to be namely, TIME BANDITS. These lying bunch of morons are the worst possible thieves in that they steal lives.
All of the GB have collaborated into making automatons of their ignorant flock. Soon, if the U.S. government ever wakes up to this cult, these Pharisaic tyrants will have no place to run except overseas to escape an investigation hearing for their crimes.
A New Primary Reader with updated characters:
Look! See Antony. See Antony cross the street. See him run from the news reporter. Run Antony; run! Look and see the G.B. members at their palatial offices. See them wring their hands in desperation as more followers find out about their crookedness. See the Kingdom Hall’s being sold as medical offices. Why? Because they have no worshipers. See the Governing Body members gnash their teeth as contributions decrease. See them sweat ball-bearings as they go deeper into insolvency.
Imagine, the fall of Babylon the Great and the first to fall is the WTBTS! Gloria in excelsis Deo!
Of course Tony Morris ran…. as the cockroach that he is…. the light must have gone brighter.
TM3, great at public speaking and insult slinging, great at side alley getaways when confronted – what a guy!! I sincerely hope he listened to counsel and had his “Grab Bag” full of diapers with him?
Reminds me of the schoolyard bully who backs away from a fight when an opponent he cannot intimidate comes along.
WS
TM3, great at public speaking and insult slinging, great at side alley getaways when confronted – what a guy!! I sincerely hope he listened to counsel and had his “Grab Bag” full of diapers with him?
lol
Won’t tm3 be just fine and dandy in a gold crown and a smashing instrument to wield at leisure. Do they seriously think we believe that JC personally chose these lying cowards? I think if they perused their little grey swords once in a while ,even they have not omitted where the dogs and liars are going. If any deluded jdub does not wake up soon we will all be putting in the money for a denture fund as there will be much gnashing of teeth . If that silly old man could not stand and defend his god then god will not defend him. Odds on they do not go preaching anymore anyway that is far too beneath them. He can run but none of them can hide. Even if they ask the rocks to fall over them we will see a little glint of a flashy rolex, such a give away. You know these charlatans may have much money and warwick security but their reputation is shot to bits and I maybe an ex rank and file with nothing to lose now but they will never regain a good standing or a good name. They have sabotaged their own reputations. If they ever did have a crown and expected white robe you would think the last thing they need is damaged children dragging on their hems. Blind and silly old men As my old dad said ” there is no fool like an old fool” cheers Ruthlee.
They handle people who are a threat to their authority just like the Planet of the Apes tribunal. https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/cc1be183-6e4d-4114-897b-f79eb8024310
As the Scripture leaves it as an open question, maybe it should remain such. However a possible answer might reduce so clear provoked distress.
Jesus had earlier asked “Who do men say I Am? ” then “who do you say I am?”. & the answer was……..
Who served perfectly without sin?
Who had taken a SLAVE’S form?
Who after his resurrection said he had been put in charge?
Did Bundy get a video of his encounter with Morris??
Another great article…Tho Bundy does look a little scary…
;) Thanx Trey…yeah scarry if you are guilty and chicken livered! Are they encouraging verbal and physical abuse threats now as a thing to do…cuz just yesterday my brother and I recieved one from our cousin who feels he would be doing us a favour for meting out justice cuz we are apostates and deserving of death, or at least a beating…what is with these people? Is there something a person should be able to do about this? Has the org. done a video up on how Caleb and Sophia should wipe out apostates even now…why wait on Jehovah? Mentioned the organizations cover up on child abuse…got called a pedophile by him myself…very puzzling…and as to their not be a charity so as to have tax exemption…really got him mad and sent me 3 for emphasis…same message as to how to clean ones colon! :). Was their a video the org. made about that I may have mist! ;). Good work all! Keep these guys a runnin…wait, I just think I figured out why he ran away…bird feeders empty…he just remembered…forgot to fill…so had to go quick…just cuz God provides for the raven….does not mean he thinks about the chickodeez! ;)
The positive aspect of this is that the inquisition of this foul misery making cult is unrelenting.
Refusing to comment in hope that any JW scandal will fade away as yesterday’s news, for long a WT tactic that worked, is now an untenable position.
Recurring court cases, Charity Commission enquiry, Aussie Royal Commission comeback in March 2017, plus the ever increasing number of ex JW blogs and YouTube vids, keeps the disgusting nature of this grubby little outfit in the public eye.
Morris’ scuttling away to hide in the Bethel den is indicative of the fact that the Gov. Bod. are running scared. No amount of exhortations to shun apostates, avoid the internet save official JW drivel or to refrain from wearing tight homoerotic trousers, can any longer keep the bad publicity wolf from the WT door.
So, TPT isn’t so tough when he’s not in front of clapping seals, huh?
That’s actually quite funny.
As deceitful as Terrence O’Brien was during his ARC testimony, the idea that Governing Body member Jackson was willing to allow his underling to take the fall for lying to the commission about Jackson’s status is utterly repugnant. There is no way the branch would be allowed to issue a statement denying Jackson’s involvement in forming policy without his full approval. These people do not have the most basic common decency let alone their much vaunted “brotherly love”.
@Anna Hume…and so on and so on…the branch overseer willingly let the inarticulate and clearly uneducated take the first fall…ARC was an eye opener for me… this is turning into a steaming mess that the everyday rank and file are totally unaware of…. it’s virtually a new low every day while the sheep still keep bleating…’the best life ever!’
@ Wideawake;
Baa, Baa, dumb sheep have you any wool?
Yes sir, yes sir, its pulled over our eyes. :)
Serious denial of a problem. One picture is worth a thousand words. http://www.ptbonet.com/jwmorris.png
oh. thats a good one.
Thanks
For an organisation which prides itself on evangelism, they sure like to run from a conversation where someone is asking reasonable questions.
yep
I guess Trey Bundy had his tight pant on.
“Your Bible questions answered” is what they advertise,
what a sham. They are the ones who pose the questions
and provide their own answers which cannot be questioned.
Ask your bible study conductor too many probing questions
that they can’t answer and you’ll be dropped and classed as
unteachable. Do the same thing as a baptised JW and you’ll
be labelled as being proud, puffed up like Satan, an independent
thinker, a rebel, and you’ll be got rid of.
Questions are the last thing they want and are what they run
away from. Their true history and flawed and constantly
changing doctrine will not stand up to questioning,
so they demand from their “worshippers” blind unquestioning
acceptance and obedience.
WT, Jan, .15, 1983, p22
Avoid independent thinking, questioning the counsel that is
provided by Gods visible organization.
Well put, Twmack.
Among Ten top warning signs regarding people involved in a Cult;
Sign 5 – Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.
Sign 9 is interesting – Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.
Let’s pop in Sign 3 – Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as “persecution”.
This articles description of Tony Morris’s reaction when confronted by a reporter shows us that the GB are scared and bereft of answers. They can feel the noose. They can’t even appear in public now for fear of being recognized and having to answer legitimate questions. They are now behaving like the true cult masters they are and have even built themselves there own theme park at Warwick where they can play god and have their sycophantic dependent slaves falling at their feet.
There very own fantasy land. These guy’s are off their rockers.
When I read your comment I had to laugh…from the first paragraph to the second. “Let me answer your question with my questions, (here’s a book of them)…and here’s the answer to my questions.” I almost can’t stop laughing…it’s so funny, the way you phrased it. It’s a sad reality, but to hear you state it was funny to me.
“Your Bible questions answered.”
Folks – no doubt about it: The JW.Org / the JW ARE DOING THIS indeed.
They are answering “Bible” questions like…
…how can you bend and twist the Bible most efficiently to suit your personal agenda?
…how can you most effectively rip Bible verses out of their context to give them a meaning they actually don’t possess?
…how can you distort the Bible’s message so that almost nothing of its original content remains?
…how can you craftily inject your own preconceived notions into the Bible to come up with new and strange teachings that have nothing to do with the Bible nor with Christianity nor with what Jesus Christ himself taught and his 1st century followers believed?
.. how can you use the Bible artfully as a smokescreen and mirrors to push your own business interests in exploiting Millions of “dumb sheep” to do your bidding?
The list goes on.
So, does the JW.Org / do JW “answer Bible questions”? Sure they do, by demonstrating remarkable skills and abilities in doing all what is listed above, in actually DEMONSTRATING how it is done.
Whether or not we like those answers, that’s an entirely different story.
Bye,
a Free Thinker
@A Free Thinker, I remember telling people all the time that that was how to understand the Bible, was to take scriptures from this place in the Bible and that place in the Bible and piecing them all together to really understand what the Bible really says.
That was what Charles Taze Russell did when he started writing and that’s still the teaching today when Witnesses try and sell Bible studies.
It worked for me and I believed it too and I preached it others.
When it comes to understanding the Bible, the Witness Organization does try and make the Bible understandable. I have to give that to them and I will give you a for instance: The Trinity.
The Witnesses don’t believe in the Trinity and they have some very good Biblical reasons to not believe in the Trinity but to me the most compelling reason is that if Jehovah God was a baby in Mary’s womb, then where was the God of the universe?
Could Mary have aborted that baby? Was Jesus a God child? The reasons could go on and on that Jehovah was not Jesus as a baby in Mary’s womb but there are also many scriptures that indicate that Jesus and God are the same person.
It’s a toss-up as far as scriptures go, when it comes to what the Bible “really” teaches about the Trinity so a person goes with what seems the most reasonable to them and the Witnesses have the most reasonable explanation but pragmatists and apologists go with the scriptures that teach a Trinity.
Witnesses have a very good argument against there being a literal hell fire and immortal soul too.
The Witnesses try and convince people that God wouldn’t literally “torture” people in an ever after for ever and ever, but that isn’t what the Bible “really” says. The Bible does come right out and say that people will be tortured for ever and for ever and says that they have a soul that lives on after death but it also says that the soul dies, so you can pick out whatever you think makes the most sense. If you want to believe that your soul goes to heaven, you can believe that but if don’t want to believe that God would torture souls after death, you can chose to believe that.
If you want to believe that you don’t have an immortal soul but God will resurrect you as a human person the same as when you were alive, you can believe that.
It’s all there, depending on what you want to believe. Contradictions be damned. Believe what you want to and stick to it and teach it to others as the “truth”.
The Witness religion tries to make sense out of the nonsensical and they try and make God into a God of love when the Bible is clear that Jehovah God is a horrible killer and vengeful and evil. But it also teaches that God is love. Take your pick.
When you believe that you really are teaching what the Bible “really” says, you can be very convincing and most Witnesses really do believe what they teach is from the Bible, but when it comes right down to it, anybody can take scriptures out of context and make it say anything they want it to say, depending on what they want to believe and if they are not aware of all of the conflicting scriptures in the Bible, can be convinced of almost anything that if taken in context, makes sense to them and pass those beliefs on to others who are also not knowledgeable in what the Bible “really” does say.
I’d give anything to belong to any of the Governing Body’s home congregations, now that I know the truth about the truth and be able to confront any of them face to face without them knowing that I have woken up and they thinking that I am a believing Witness.
I would love to see their faces when they are confronted face to face with honest and sincere questions like belonging to the U.N., 607 B.C.E. and a bunch of other questions.
If I started asking about the pedophiles, then they’d catch on immediately that they are being caught lying and protecting pedophiles and so that is the last thing that I would bring up, since I would like the conversation to go on.
Morris said he was going in service but he ran back into the Bethel. Do they really go in service? I can’t imagine it, judging by how he reacted when he was confronted by Trey Bundy. I think they don’t even go in service.
Yes, what a wasted opportunity. Tight Pants Tony could have taken this opportunity to set the record straight and show Trey the clear evidence that JWs are the only true religion. Isn’t that what they tell us to do if someone questions our faith?
WS
I totally agree with all you say Caroline. For the arrogant little man to say he was out ‘to preach the good news’ and then do a runner says it all. What a coward! So, what was he doing? Maybe he was telling the truth, after all in his ‘big himself up’ little story in a Watchtower mag he openly admitted to being so fervent when he was a new JW that he even went to men’s rest rooms to leave tracts. So it would it be plausable to think that he had been out ‘visiting’ men’s rest rooms.
Off topic a bit but December 2012 Watchtower article In Search of the Christmas Spirit gives encouragement to be ‘liberal in giving, to help the needy.’ I think I have some questions for the next JW I meet.
I mean ‘plausible’
On a little bit different topic because I think some have asked in the past and also because some ask “what are they scared about”. I have a website (not related to this type of content) where I capture IP addresses and can
do IP location searches. Sure enough after some time I saw an IP coming from the German branch looking at my site. The IP location website specifically said it is coming from their German Branch.
I have had many vistis that are located in the Hudson Valley where I believe Warwick is located but the actually originator isn’t mentioned like the German branch office was. So, I would imagine the branch(es) are pretty active online. Thought it was interesting.
Can we queue the Benny Hill theme music?
Tony Morris and the Governing Body’s chicken’s coming home to roost?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFyL2BTCu84
what is this:
Watchtower Court Ordered Fine in U.S. Dollars ?
on right side of site?
why i didnt find any real non apostate document about this?
Because you didn’t look.
i did.
on this website:
https://roa.sdcourt.ca.gov/roa/faces/CaseSearch.xhtml
you can see it by searching for
37-2013
00067529
but all documents are available only after payment.
How do you know if in some recent docs this fine already exists? Maybe its been ruled out?
Maybe its not actual anymore?
If you read the Reveal News article we link to in this piece, and listen to the Reveal News podcast, this court fine amongst others is discussed in detail as to it’s current status.
This is a link to a “non-apostate” report about the fines. http://m.sandiegoreader.com/news/2016/jun/24/ticker-judge-sanctions-jehovahs-witnesses/?templates=mobile
These court orders and sanctions are real, not simply apostate lies as the GB tells their members and as the members so dearly wish to believe.
WS
Just wondered why my last comment is still awaiting moderation…I’ve looked through it over and over and can find no breaking of the site guidelines..it’s a few days now.
Everybody,pleeeease check out the Leah Remini special series on Scientology[A&E]. Very close comparisans to brutal cult mind set.Any JW has to be jarred by what is brought out.
Yes, lots of parallels! I recommend it :)
@Joe — yes, it is a very compelling series to make aware of mind-control and undue influence practices. But, for the thoroughly indoctrinated and controlled mind, parallels will flyover minds like duck flying south in North American fall–high and out of reach. It remains a very difficult thing to walk up and jar someone out of their deep hypnotic state with any cult. The best is to throw the facts at them and let it slowly work at their awareness as the person finds issues that match the evidence of this being a false reality. The series is best for someone in that phase of waking up–aware that something just isn’t seated right with the group.
The show is the “red pill” to wake them up and validate their sense of “something isn’t right here”.
Throughout the time we were thoroughly convinced JW’s, any time we doubted, we had a set of reactions programmed to convince us that our inner guidance and conscience could not be trusted. It takes time to regain the confidence in that inner “voice” that warns of threats, and personalities that can do harm. And, likewise, time to trust our critical thinking to guide us correctly.
Why a journalist flees another journalist? On jw.org you can read: “The second example has to do with placing our magazines. We have been encouraged to search out people who are likely to respond to specific articles in our journals.” (http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015123?q=%28magazines+journals%29&p=par) ! “The two Bible-based journals they produce, The Watchtower and Awake!, are by far the world’s most widely distributed magazines.” (http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2012083?q=%28magazines+journals%29&p=par) !
It’s funny!!
outandabout, The point you make about dependency is
so true. A key factor in this is convincing people that they
are the faithful slave described in a fictitious story a-
( Parable ) written over 2,000 years ago,
My 4 year old great grandson believes Santa Clause is
real, and his mother is able to control his behaviour by
exploiting his naivety, ( You know how that’s done).
But soon, as his ability to reason and think critically
develops that method of manipulation will no longer work.
Am I missing this, or where is the URL showing MT3’s panic flight?
Journalist wearing tight pants can lead to panic disorder in the mind of “holy ones” wearing a tight brain !!! No need to look for some other reason.
This is a wonderful comments! Unfortunate “Tight Brains” are winning the World! “At a certain point, even secular rulers will be forced to acknowledge its authority.” ( http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2002804?q=%22even+secular+rulers+will+be+forced%22&p=par )! The time of revenge has come!
I haven’t written to this sight in a while, but I read with interest everyday. Just a couple of thoughts about people in high places. I will not call them the governing body. I stopped having respect for them a long time ago. What is the fear in man that makes them leave when given the opportunity to answer some simple questions, or even questions that require deep thought? Here is a scenario from my youth as a witness. I was always told that if I misbehaved I would have to face the congregation overseer, (why my father could not take care of it I will never know). So, when I was a bad little boy they called him in and he asked me questions. I really was afraid to answer them truthfully for fear of getting in more trouble. I already got a spanking or restrictions, what more trouble could I get into? The fear I felt compelled me to either lie or not say anything. So this man when confronted with questions the fear took over. He really was afraid in a real sense. His answers if they were truthful would have gotten him into hot water. Why do people have lawyers speak for them? Some have real fear that their mouths will sink them, or if they are not afraid and they do speak up, very soon their lives will be upside down. This is especially true with people in powerful positions, and this man knew his position would be in jeopardy when he began to speak. If he had been truly dependent on his heavenly father to help him speak, why didn’t he? The reason is he is just a small man out of 8 billion people, including myself, who go through life with fear large or small everyday.
I may get moderated for this, but perhaps the GB could reflect on this thought;
‘if your life has turned to shit, is it because you’re being an arsehole’?
@APM – glad you’re writing your mind. You guessed correctly, even though the GBM men have title and privileged rank in the organization (enterprise), as Ray Franz writings state, they are not immune to discipline and fear of discipline. If you think it frightful as a little child answering questions to an intimidating adult, imagine the fear when you’ve risen through the ranks, given up all independence, and your life literally depends on an enterprise and its internal politics. So, if you give the wrong statement or create a catastrophy, the little “backstabbers” and “connivers” like sharks onto chum are ready to put you on ice skates out the door.
“Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown.” Shakespeare’s play Henry IV, Part 2.
@JBob,
This part of your comment gave me a chuckle and I hope you don’t mind me sharing it. I think you had a typo in your acronym for the Governing Body, instead typing GBM. Of course my twisted mind saw BM and associated it with the acronym for Bowel Movement. So then we have the Governing Bowel Movement, which for me works on several levels: one the amount of control they exercise over the rank and file, it would not surprise me if the R&F had to report on the frequency of their BM’s. Two, I thought of all the failed predictions and changed doctrine that had to be flushed over the years.
Forgive my twisted sense of humor here, but thanks for the chuckle, intentional or not.
WS
I believe the WT is taking a purely legalistic strategy, the same type many corporations take when being sued. My guess is the GB members are following advice from their lawyers not to comment on child molestation inside their organization. Their legal strategy seems to be to admit nothing, grind their opposition with court costs and time delays through appeals and other legal tactics, and then pay the smallest settlements they can get away with. Anything the GB members say publicly that may incriminate their organization is detrimental to such a strategy.
Their strategy has also proven them to be hypocritical law breakers, since they tell others to obey the governments when obedience doesn’t violate God’s law. The WT refuses to obey some of their court orders received from judges in their child molestation law suits. This raises a question. Has the GB ever made a decision on whether or not repeatedly violating superior court orders could be a disfellowshipping offense if it becomes public knowledge that the violations are willful and flagrant?
a very stagnant site here now. same old material round and round. keep seeking your own glory cedars. it will be short-lived
Only a brief lull, wer’e busy with holiday prepararations.
Merry Christmas.
Absolutely, a Merry Christmas!
the same old material needs to be going round and round, watcher, because people resist change and will cling onto outdated idea’s even in the face of overwhelming evidence that contradicts long held beliefs.
The Watchtower has been using repetition an effective tool for over one hundred years while catering to the fearful and superstitious by way of their ridiculous infantile supernatural fantasy and are now eagerly waiting for the UN to attack the churches to bring that hideous fantasy about. I wonder whatever happened to the King of the North scenario. Gone south?
I don’t know Cedars, he will have his faults for sure, but as far as I’m aware he’s not claiming to be the revered mouthpiece of god, will answer questions without becoming judgmental and punitive, does not have a paper trail of overwhelmingly negative articles, books and statements about him, does not discourage critical thinking and education, does not slander opposition, will admit failings and mistakes and accept constructive criticism and advice and doesn’t claim to be the only source of knowledge and learning excluding everyone else.
So, unlike the Watchtower, Cedars would make a lousy cult leader.
Great answer to watcher, Out and About and I second it completely.
His words are pitiful and ludicrous.
Cannot say I have ever thought of Cedars as a glory-seeker. Someone who is courageous enough to leave the cult and take the punches. Honest enough to share his “sins” the internet is worthy of great respect in my world.
I also enjoyed your comment outandabout concerning watcher’s comment.
I also don’t know Cedars personally but I appreciate all the work on the articles here and all his videos.
In the world of being super famous, Cedars may not be superstar but in my opinion, he is a superstar. Because of this website, many people have been allowed to express how they really feel about the Watchtower religion and hopefully someday, it will wake up enough people that it will bring down the Watchtower religion so I hope it never comes to an end until the Watchtower comes to it’s end.
I am so glad that Cedars came up with the idea for jwsurvey because I think the title of the website will draw a lot of Witnesses because when people type in jw.org, they are bound to see jw.survey.
That was smart to come up with the idea and the title and I am willing to bet that Watchtower is very well aware of this website and they pay attention to what is going on on jw.survey and what more could we ask for.
Watchtower likes to control it’s rank and file by not letting any of the rank and file have a “voice” and so this website lets the rank and file and ex Witnesses have a voice, which we never had before.
If it wasn’t for the rank and file, the Watchtower would not exist so if the Watchtower really cared about the rank and file, you would think they’d care about what the rank and file think about being Witnesses and have their own website like this one, but they don’t.
All they want is blind and obedient drones. If they really cared, they would have a way for the Witnesses to respond to their videos but they do not have a way to respond to their videos or their website.
They don’t even want the Witnesses to call or write to them. That is how much they care about the average rank and file member, who are the ones that send in the money to support them.
If the articles of late on jwsurvey are not interesting enough for you, then why not pick out an older article to read and comment on. If you have read all the articles, then that says a lot, doesn’t it?
Being sensational, isn’t the point of jwsurvey. The point of the articles is to keep jw’s and former jw’s informed about some of the stuff that’s going on in the Organization, that we would not get by going to jw.org. and I appreciate that and all the work that goes into this site.
To know that the same statements are being made over and over again would mean that you are a regular visitor to this site…assuming you are a jw why on earth are you regularly reading the articles and comments?… Go away and let us keep repeating ourselves to our hearts content…it’s wonderful just to be able to type what we really think and feel ..if you think Cedars is almost at his time of reckoning then go and prepare for his downfall…I think you will be waiting longer than you expect…however you obviously prefer the stagnant information fed to you by the gb…. 1914 blah blah blah….607 blah blah blah…. No Blood blah blah blah…. 2 witness rule blah blah blah…and on and on….same old stagnant information and all the dressing up of singing magazine carts cannot hide it.
Is there a problem with my comments particularly..I would like to know.
@ watcher;
So it’s perfectly acceptable to you for the Watchtower to flog the “same old material round and round” for years under the pretext of it being ‘Jehovah’s reminders’ then, after 20 years of repetition, change their ‘material’ (read manure) with a brilliant flash of NEW LIGHT!
If this site is so boringly ‘stagnant’ as you state then, as with Television, you can always change the channel and move on. Nobody is forced to come here, read the articles or as you have done, comment. You are free to place your comments (per the standards listed below) and opinions here and receive feedback. This would not fly in the Orwellian distopia that is the Watchtower. Try, just try, to stand up and disagree with any doctrines of the Watchtower and see what happens, please.
Yes, Cedars is a “Superstar” in my opinion. With his website, it allowed me to let go of 20 years of guilt for leaving “gods organization” when I was 24 years of age. At 44 years old, they still had a hold on me mentally until I came across JWsurvey.com. Thank you “brother” Cedars so showing me I have nothing to fear.
Jarrett
Great comment – we are meeting so many people all the time who left but were still mentally trapped by the organization. Many more people have this experience than we realize. Your words are appreciated.
JR
I always found this interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zObDeL9jRM8
@watcher, And what’s your contribution to freeing minds
from cult domination.
Run.. Morris… Run. Run… Morris… Run.
Forrest Gump – #4 – Run Forrest run
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyCGEHYvgsU&w=560&h=315%5D
REPORT OF CASE STUDY NO. 29 – The response of the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Australia Ltd to allegations of child sexual abuse (PDF)
ISBN: 978-1-925289-89-3
https://goo.gl/PClZHF
@ Big B, Caroline and all:
I stood up over 20 years ago, when you were all just pups. Nice try with your attempt at smart a** replies.
My conclusion here, if God was to come to earth and miraculously set up an undeniable arrangement for worship, a sort of major miracle, as it were, you people would still find fault. Its in your nature. People hated Christ. I cannot defend watchtower, and its certainly not my desire; Ive not associated for many many years, but through my years of research, I have come to learn that people like cedars are the same as those they have made a career out of targeting, as well as an over-inflated personality and followers to match. You people with your busy-body, back-slapping ‘follower’ mentality, pandered to by people like cedars due to your own hurt pride, will play no part in whatever justice is required. You are still enslaved to the words of men; tied in; trapped; thinking you are free. Go follow your chosen leaders; you remain lost. I pity you and your many words.
Im surprised I wasnt banned after my last comment; I usually am. Information control? See, all still the same. Control at its very best, even from cedars and his henchmen. Dont fall for the control here. Certainly dont play in to their deep desire for adulation and ego stroking.
I think I just want to escape the control completely…and the core desire the Watchtower breeds in you from infancy to be people pleasers.My last two comments…one very annoyed with you Watcher have not been allowed by the moderator though no guidelines were broken and over the last couple of days it’s made me realise that I don’t want to be open to censure from anyone or anything that is not a legal entity…so thank you Watcher…I will no longer be a contributer to this site.Peace and Joy to you all.
Wideawake,
I have been experiencing the same thing regarding my comments as you – a few of my comments in this article and the previous one were awaiting moderation for a few days. This is as a result of the automatic filter which can be arbitrary at times. Someone then has to manually release the comments, which may take some time.
You just have to keep checking to see if your comment(s) has been released and posted.
Thank you…that’s put my mind at rest…I’m quite fearful of getting attached to another judgmental..male dominated hierarchical group.
@watcher, I am 70 years old and was baptized at 19, so 50 years of my short life was wasted on the “truth” and now I may only have a few years left and it’s hard for me to deal with that.
If only I hadn’t been tricked into following that religion like I did, but it’s too late so all I can do now is try and warn anybody else who might come to this website and read mine and other’s comments that might keep them from following in the same fruitless path that I followed and wasted my life on the JW religion. That is all I can hope for now in my old age so I put a lot of thought into my half-a***d comments because I am trying to save lives.
It seems that you have a vendetta against Lloyd Evans and you believe that he has a cult following and that bothers you and you want anybody coming here to see what a “terrible” person you seem to think he is but what you don’t understand is that most of us don’t even know Lloyd personally so we can’t vouch for him personally, but I for one am very grateful for jwsurvey where I can vent and warn others about the dangers of getting involved in the JW religion.
I feel sorry for you if you hate Lloyd Evans so much. It can’t be good for your mental health.
If you have such a venue as jwsurvey where we can come and vent and warn others about not getting involved in the Watchtower cult, then I will go on your website and do the same thing.
I remember when I was still in the “truth”, writing to Watchtower many times when I couldn’t get my questions answered by the literature, and finally Watchtower told the elders in my congregation to tell me to knock it off and if I had any questions to ask them instead and they called me into the elders’ room to tell me that that’s what they wrote and told them to tell me.
That is how much they value us as people so you can imagine how grateful I am that I am now able to express myself and not get told to knock it off like Watchtower does to it’s people when they ask questions they can’t answer.
If you are sticking up for the JW religion, then why not use your real name? If I were sticking up for my religion where I thought people were bashing it for no reason, I’d be proud to use my real name and not hide it.
We all know the reason you aren’t using your real name and that is because you aren’t supposed to be on this website (if you are a Witness) and if you use your real name, then those at Bethel will see your real name and they will get in touch with the elders in your congregation and have you expelled because all of us who are and were Witnesses, know that Witnesses are barred from looking at anything that puts the Watchtower in a bad light and if you break that rule, you will be hauled in to a committee meeting for apostasy and or marked as bad association because Watchtower is deathly afraid that you might spill the beans to anybody else you know in the “truth” when you find out about all the lies and coverups of the Organization, so it’s terribly important to keep you off websites like this and you know it or you would use your real name.
If you did get turned in to the elders for breaking the rules when it comes to going onto websites like this, then that means that Watchtower is also breaking their own rules and looking at these websites, trying to find defectors or anybody who might come onto a website like this and find out the real truth about the “truth” so then you shouldn’t be afraid to use your real name because after all, if they can look at this website, then you should be able to too, right?
If not, then isn’t that the height of hypocrisy? Just figuring that out for yourself should tell you that you are in a dangerous cult.
Don’t be afraid to use your real name. What can they do to you?
What do you mean you stood up 20 years ago when we were all pups? On the one hand, it sounds like you stood up against the Watchtower 20 years ago and then on the other hand, you seem to be sticking up for the Watchtower.
Explain please.
What ‘hurt pride’ do you refer to? I have none and I am certainly not a ‘follower’ of Cedars, but I do have great admiration for him. People here are not finding fault due to our nature. Many (if not most) here have suffered immensely due to the ridiculous doctrines and practices of JW’s. I for one take my hat off to Cedars for having the guts to do what he has done in exposing what JW’s are really about and so helping so many others. Please re-read the posting guidelines. It’s all about respect.
watcher…..stop being such a grinch.
You sound like the type of person who attacks the ambulance when it turns up to help.
Why do you come to this site? To moan or to help?
@Watcher,
Pretty high and mighty up there on your high horse aren’t you? Quite gracious of you to condescend to deal with us small minded folks!
You automatically assume that the commenters here are all Johnny-come-latelys and simply suffer from wounded pride. None of them have the sense that you do ‘eh?
20 years in the org? That’s nothing. But you’d know that if you bothered to get to know folks through their comments, rather than simply drawing baseless conclusions. I am one of the younger regular commenters on this forum and I was in for a quarter century (longer if you count the fact that I was born in). Big B and Caroline were in much longer, well near 40 years.
None of us follow Cedars. He simply a smart man who had a good idea in creating JW Survey to help those who were oppressed by a dangerous cult. Cedars is not my only source of information nor do I follow him in any way. I woke up well before I discovered this site and I got and continue to get my information from a number of sources.
Not sure what your motives are in trying to discredit this site – JW apologist perhaps?
WS