Superstar Prince Pronounced Dead: World in Shock Over Passing of Celebrity Jehovah’s Witness

April 22nd, 2016

Seldom does the death of one individual captivate the news so completely as when a superbly talented, musically gifted, and internationally beloved icon such as Prince loses his life. What would be a routine day of reporting of the U.S. Presidential race, international conflicts, and earthquake relief work has become a media spectacle, cornering all of the major news outlets including CNN and BBC.

For Jehovah’s Witnesses, the death of Prince comes with a mixed bag of emotions due to the controversial and mysterious nature of the converted JW pop star. While many Witnesses embrace the fact that such a gifted individual would accept their fundamentalist faith, other Witnesses despise his behavior and view his entire body of work as evidence of Satan’s influence in the entertainment industry.

This polarization of attitudes towards the few Jehovah’s Witnesses who have achieved worldwide fame reveals that the Watchtower organization is not really quite sure what to make of these individuals. While Scientology openly embraces and heaps accolades on its well-known celebrities like Tom Cruise and John Travolta, Jehovah’s Witnesses take a more subdued approach to fame, preferring to name-drop B-rated scientists who support creationism.

larrygrahamawake
February 22nd 1989 Awake! Magazine

There are some exceptions to this, most notably Watchtower’s 1989 life story of Larry Graham, the
man responsible for Prince’s conversion to the JW religion. Larry Graham’s life journey in becoming one of Jehovah’s Witnesses was featured in the February 22nd 1989 issue of the Awake! magazine, published by the Watchtower organization.

While Witness publications almost never feature persons of fame, Larry Graham was an exception to this policy, primarily due to his extraordinary devotion to the faith, and the fact that he became a full-time “pioneer” minister for Jehovah’s Witnesses as well as an elder in the congregation. As a result of his evangelical nature, coupled with his connection to many prominent musicians, he was able to get the attention of Prince Rogers Nelson, or as we know him, Prince.

larrygrahamfamily
Larry Graham and Family at the Kingdom Hall

By the year 2001, Prince had accepted the faith of his close friend Graham, replacing his prior beliefs which included membership in the Seventh Day Adventist church. As Graham’s spiritual protegé, he publicly cast off the celebration of birthdays, voting, and embraced Jehovah’s Witnesses’ bizarre ban on life-saving blood transfusions. He even accompanied Graham in the public ministry, knocking on doors, counting his time. But make no mistake, Prince was not about to throw away the only thing which made Prince Prince, his explosive imagination, creativity and genius musical talent which could not be contained inside the stagnant four walls of a Kingdom Hall.

His career continued, mildly subdued by the religion, but never irreversibly stifled by the rigid rules of Watchtower’s invasive Governing Body. And this was in fact the reason Prince was such a controversial figure among Jehovah’s Witnesses. Just as with one-time Jehovah’s Witness Michael Jackson, the musical products of Prince divided Witnesses into two camps: one which admired his music and bragged about his affiliation with the organization, and the other which labeled him as a despicable hypocrite whose sexually permissive appearance and lyrics disgraced the holy and conservative beliefs of the JW organization.

By the time Prince had become a Witness, Michael Jackson had already left the religion, but not before being coerced into a public apology for his music video Thriller, which the Awake! magazine connected with spiritism. In the May 1984 Awake! publication, Jackson was quoted as saying:

“I would never do it again”.

While Jackson died in complete disgrace among Witnesses as a disassociated member, Prince somehow managed to avoid judicial punishment and ostracism for his questionable lifestyle, as his music, associates, and actions were the polar opposite of the ultra-conservative JW beliefs.

Prince died at a terribly young age. Speculations as to the cause of his death are spreading like gangrene, and are useless in the face of the reality that we have lost yet another entertainment genius, and we won’t get him back. The intersection of his life with that of the Jehovah’s Witness religion raises many questions which might not be answered for quite some time. Until then, we can only comment on what we know, and what Prince said.

For a brilliant and thoughtful review of the passing of Prince Rogers Nelson, please view the following video produced by Lloyd Evans, senior editor for JW Survey:

 

John Redwood

Mark O'Donnell

Mark O'Donnell is a former Jehovah's Witness turned whistleblower after discovering the disturbing child abuse epidemic within the religion. His story, along with the revelation of a secret database of child molesters were featured in the March 2019 online issue of the Atlantic Magazine: https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/03/the-secret-jehovahs-witness-database-of-child-molesters/584311/ O'Donnell continues to investigate allegations of child abuse within the Witness organization, and works with law enforcement, attorneys, and survivors of abuse, writing about his findings on jwsurvey.org and other outlets.

265 thoughts on “Superstar Prince Pronounced Dead: World in Shock Over Passing of Celebrity Jehovah’s Witness

  • April 21, 2016 at 10:48 pm
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    I am wondering if there’ll a funeral talk for Prince.

  • April 21, 2016 at 11:19 pm
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    I think the fact that Prince became a J-Dub shows that like the rest of us, he is vulnerable to indoctrination and propaganda when he was feeling somewhat lost in life, and who should come along, but a friend and fellow artist, so immediately his friendship strengthens, and to top it off a new way of life and direction and membership to a club, a religious club.
    He was fortunate in that he was not indoctrinated from birth as many were/are, and that shows in his life, where he was never going to allow it to take over his life completely, to the contrary he somewhat kept it in it’s place and continued with his form of art, maintaining his mate-ship at the same time.
    Outside of his art, I saw a vulnerable young man who lost his Dad and needing some direction and guidance from someone older.
    RIP Prince.

    • April 22, 2016 at 5:02 am
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      I think a point people miss or gloss over is the fact he converted from Seventh Day Adventism to Jehovah’s Witnesses. Looking at the history of the Borg, Russell was heavily influenced by the Adventists, to put it mildly.
      When I was researching things after leaving, it seems to me the writing committee is still looking to the Adventists for explaining certain doctrine, such as the Flood.
      If that’s the case, I can see why Prince wouldn’t see a radical difference between the two, but would consider it a natural awakening.

      • April 24, 2016 at 2:13 am
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        Hello, I’m always saddened but anybody’s death, so, it is with ‘prince’. I’m here in Australia. Your’e comments about ‘prince’ and Jehovah’s Witnesses, to me betray that you have a bitter, cold & different agenda & motive. You have babbled some nonsense, in accord with you’re lack of ‘ common sense’ and lack of real loving concern for others. But, that is your opinion, and this is mine.

        Cheerio from Chuck Baby in Australia
        (Jazz player/ 4 string electric Bass guitar).

  • April 21, 2016 at 11:51 pm
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    As a Mather of fact, blood kills people, I know many many persons who survived an operation without blood. And I know many persons who did get blood and they died under surgery!

    Well that is the story all witnesses tell me.

    • April 22, 2016 at 6:44 am
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      “Well that is the story all witnesses tell me.”

      Have you spoken to any medical professionals about this or done your own research?

    • April 22, 2016 at 5:18 pm
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      Jaak. I know plenty of people who have survived without an operation that some doctors said was needed.I know some people who have died also from having operations. That doesn’t mean blood transfusions kill does it? It only means SOME peole got away without having one that is all. Look at how many have survived by having a needed blood transfusion. If you look at the odds so many more people will survive with a blood transfusion than without one.I knew a JW family who told me their uncle in the 1960’s refused a coranory transplant and went blind bc the WT said body transplants were equal to cannibalism. So he was blind the rest of his life. Then the WT changed their view and said ooops! We were wrong. Go ahead and get your transplants. He was left with extreme deprsiion and the only thing they could say is oh well, we tried to do the right thing and he will have perfect vision in the New World! Can you believe that?

      • April 23, 2016 at 9:21 am
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        HAHAHAHA

      • June 7, 2016 at 9:03 am
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        Organ transplantation requires an organ from a living human; often the donor is only brain dead (which really means living) due to deprivation of oxygen. Organs are removed from living humans who are given drugs to paralyze them. Do the research. http://www.truthaboutorgandonation.com/factsaboutbeinganorgandonor.html
        So, yes, it is cannibalism, regardless of how WT views change. They don’t work in operating rooms.

    • April 22, 2016 at 7:39 pm
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      Well, the bulk of surgery is performed without the need for blood so it’s really not a surprise that ‘many, many’ people can tell you they had surgery without it.
      When the medical profession deem the risk associated with blood is less than that of refusing, you have less anecdotes to hear since the surviving patients are far fewer.

  • April 21, 2016 at 11:57 pm
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    Prince was not indoctrinated and spoiled by youth as the most JWs and ex-JWs are. He was fortunate and did what he want.He died with an overdosis of drugs, according Dutch newsmagazines. Personally have no any feelings and emotions by this guy and his 50cm high “Antony Morris III”shoes….

  • April 22, 2016 at 12:37 am
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    I never knew what to make of Prince’s conversion and I still don’t know what to make of it. It seems to me that this initial hook of this religion does genuinely tap into a need of some very talented folk. Prince included. I think it maybe that deep fear of death which this religion dangles the promise of never dying to its victims. The problem is that unless you get fully involved the promise of paradise eventually evaporates and people go back to doing what they are best at. So for Prince that would be his creative genius. Interestingly these uberrock stars with such influence on the minds of many generations span do not contribute to a mass conversion of their loyal fans in fact generally the fans forgive them their whacky beliefs and put it down to a quirky diversion. I think it is interesting he had his roots in 7Dadv yet another odd breakaway religion with similar doctrines to jws.The man will be missed and his music will inspire a new generation and spark the creative genius in others but his religion will not, that will be consigned to the bin of obscurity because his genius shone through in spite of his religion not because of it. Ruthlee

    • April 22, 2016 at 2:56 am
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      I too was always confused by the lifestyles of so called celebrity JW’s. What does god really demand of those who would be acceptable to him, according to the GB? Try wearing Prince style clothes to your next meeting and see how quickly you are hauled into the back room for a quiet little ‘tight pants’ chat. It seems that artists of the level of this man have great imagination, a willingness to mentally explore different propositions and ‘the truth’ can, on initial examination, capture the mind or provide a form of solace. No one knows for sure what he thought or why, but there appears little doubt that he was treated differently from how others would be viewed if they suddenly adopted his ‘acceptable’ lifestyle as a JW. A brilliant musician and performer and a great loss to the world of entertainment.

      • July 4, 2016 at 3:38 pm
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        Lmbo “tight pants chat”. I was in this “religion” from 1-14 so basically from the 80’s-90’s. I remember a brother being “outed” for his drinking problem and then being “disfellowshiped” for it. The Congrigation Elders HAD TO KNOW that Prince had a “substance” issue,I just wonder if he got a free “pass” due to his “worldly” persona? Did the J.W’s change their “substance issue stance” since the early 90’s? I know they changed some things since my family left. I’m just VERY interested to know.

  • April 22, 2016 at 12:40 am
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    P.S. My husband volunteers to do the funeral talk. Now that will be a talk I hope they televise on the monthly broadcast!!!! Ruthlee

    • April 23, 2016 at 9:36 am
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      Really? Now Sister princess dad shouldn’t be any different than any other deaths that happened. It is sad that he is an artist but God’s people are equal We Are All God’s Children and we should be treated as equal. Just because he is famous and makes a lot of money makes you no different than anyone who is poor. As long as those who put Kingdom interest first will be honored by God.

      • April 24, 2016 at 12:03 pm
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        Emily My comment was ironic as those who know me . ruthlee

  • April 22, 2016 at 2:16 am
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    A Legend that transcended the limiting world view of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society and other man made interventions, RIP Prince Rogers Nelson.

  • April 22, 2016 at 4:13 am
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    Prince described his learning ‘The Truth’ like the character Neo, in The Matrix. Neo takes a pill and wakes up to the fact that he was living inside of a computer program.
    The Jehovah’s Witnesses spin a pretty good story too and it hooked all of us reading this website, at one time. Just like any religion or cult, there are answers given to some deep questions and it seems to make sense in some weird way.
    The real ‘beauty’ to the Jehovah’s Witness-story is that it changes over time! The Watchtower will rewrite their history and cover over any embarrassing episodes.
    Prince trusted his friend, Larry Graham, most of all. I’m sure that everyone who got sucked into our own ‘JW-Matrix’ had a trusted friend or relative that we followed blindly. Now with anyone being able to quickly search sites like this, and to talk with ex members, it is going to be very hard to suck anyone else into the Governing Body’s little Matrix of lies!

    • April 22, 2016 at 6:31 pm
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      Foldmeonce. In the late 1980’s I was going to do some “missionary” work in the Bahamas with some local JW’s in the San Fransisco area. Larry Graham was part of the group. He came to my house and was a very nice guy. He was a real guy and we were all excited about our trip.Then the group leader approached us all and said the WT Society did not approve our trip and it was not an “AUTHORIZED” Wt approved group and squashed us! This was after we had all purchased our tickets and rental etc. Everyone was bummed and SO DISAPPOINTED. I did get my airfare $$ back. I am not sure If Larry GRaham is still a devoted JW or if he is having an awakening or not.
      I am not a Big Prince fan but it seems a lot of people like his music.

      • April 22, 2016 at 8:37 pm
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        Larry is still a very active witness. He and Tina are wonderful people and are friends with my mother: I have nothing but good to say about this man.
        What a sad thing it is that so many quality people are duped into this cult . That is precisely why it must fall.
        Garrett
        Minneapolis

    • April 23, 2016 at 6:09 am
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      I wonder how many witnesses were “stumbled” because he referenced a rate R movie? Also, I wonder if he was counseled about referring himself to that character instead of a biblical character.

  • April 22, 2016 at 5:52 am
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    Truly sad; he wasa supremely talented yet was to all appearances genuinely kind, gentle soul.

    I wonder what, if anything, JW Broadcast will make of this story.

  • April 22, 2016 at 5:56 am
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    This am my fb page is full of tributes to Prince and then there are the witness ones – ‘See you in paradise brother Prince’, ‘Brother Prince makes it into paradise….’. Makes me want to puke.

    Will the GB be rubbing their hands hoping for a hand out? Did brother Prince – whom we all respected and loved, leave us his dosh?

    Sorry. I am sad at his death but the WT attitude makes me want to vomit. Amazing how many JW’s are suddenly ‘into’ his music.

    RIP Prince

    • April 22, 2016 at 6:42 pm
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      Tara. Look at this Site that says the WT may inherit Princes $300 Million dollars? Will they take money from someone who made it promoting sexual immorality, transgender life styles, Gay life style and
      most all his songs were based on SEX , drugs and Rock and roll. We know the WT owns stock in Boeing and other companies that produce military weapons and other stocks that produce things they preach against. Look at this Article and see if they have their hand out?
      yes, they will take the immoral money.http://dailym.ai/1VpGXOg

      • April 22, 2016 at 8:38 pm
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        I have no doubt they will make it work for themselves. I am sure they are rubbing their hands together right now and getting their lawyers to work out how they can twist it so they come out on top. Shame on them. Someone posted, not too long back the shares they had bequeathed to them by a sister… I cannot remember her name. Made interesting reading. No they won’t think twice about excepting anything coming from the estate of Prince.

      • April 22, 2016 at 8:52 pm
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        Henrietta Riley trust! that’s the one I was thinking of. Check out what the WT has used Bonds, Stocks and Shares for. They won’t think twice about money from Prince.

      • April 23, 2016 at 5:31 am
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        The article indicates that the Watchtower could inherit Prince’s music rights. I hadn’t thought of that. What a shame it would be if they just sat on all his “worldly” music and did not allow it to be made public. But of course if there is money to be made from it they probably won’t have a problem letting it be published.

        WS

        • April 23, 2016 at 6:04 am
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          Unless they decided that it was satanic and burnt the lot. I think
          Prince would have thought of that. He knew the value of his work unless he was prepared to let it be destroyed, after all he would know the old adage, ‘you can’t take it with you’.

        • April 24, 2016 at 12:18 pm
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          According to Kevin Smith’s YouTube video on Prince, he has 50 or so original music videos/songs unreleased in his vault. Maybe Watchtower will inherit and become a record label too. Hey why not. They already have their television studio.

    • April 23, 2016 at 9:43 am
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      You sound like a very angry person I feel very sorry for you it doesn’t matter what someone chooses as their religion its what they do in life. Prince does not know you nor do you know any celebrity probably. But that being said you are allowed to live your life the way you want and so should other people just show some respect. When the day comes when it matters the truth will be known you will not be puking then you will be surprised beyond your wildest dream.

      • April 23, 2016 at 10:08 am
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        @Emily
        Not sure who your comments were directed at. As far as being angry, I have found that I am able to have a much calmer and easy going disposition since leaving the JW cult. I don’t think anyone here in this chain of posts is voicing any kind of anger or hatefulness. From experience we all just know what the JW cult is capable of and we are speculating how they may use this man’s fame and fortune to their own ends and out of harmony with the type of person he was.

        WS

        • April 27, 2016 at 6:43 am
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          JW haters are so petty and weak. Stop worrying about what they will or won’t accept from THEIR BROTHER who CHOSE THEM, and focus on your own bitter little lives!

      • April 23, 2016 at 10:31 am
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        No Emily. If you mean me, I’m not angry and I am actually related to some very famous people. That being said I just find it very disturbing that so many witnesses are jumping on the bandwagon. My fb page has been inundated with brothers and sisters saying things like ‘dear brother prince has made it into the new system… he is in paradise’. No one knows who will be in the new system so no one has the right to say that. For all we know Lemmie will be there because he had a good heart. So again, no, I’m not angry in fact, I am less stressed and anxious since I stopped attending meetings.

        • April 23, 2016 at 12:23 pm
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          I agree. Who are u all to be judging Prince or even the faith of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. One day very soon the TRUTH will be revealed. I long for that day. And no one has made it to paradise yet as paradise is yet to come. All our loved ones are asleep in death awaiting a resurrection.

          • April 23, 2016 at 9:48 pm
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            ah, yes, Tracey….the resurrection. Is that the one where you wake up in a theme park patting lions, cuddling panda’s, swimming with toothless sharks, seeing the snakes lying there with a bale of hay inside them and maybe a crocodile coming up on the river bank, flipping on it’s side, grabbing a blade of grass and giving it the death roll? You don’t age or marry anymore so there won’t be any babies, I guess. Isn’t having children and raising them to be decent people the absolute purpose of being us? Without that, what have we got?
            We’re all disgusted when in the news we read of yet another estranged man murdering his wife or partner and no doubt it gets JW’s going “tsk tsk, another sign!” But what is that estranged man actually saying by committing such an act? He’s saying, “well if you don’t love me then I will kill you” Why is it that when a man does that once it’s soooooo terrible, but absolutely so correct and just when the Jehovah thug does it 7 billion times? See how the cult has disconnected you from your conscience? That’s how cults work and how they get you to accept as gospel anything they wish to. You’re under their spell. Good luck with your choice.
            You do realise that the paradise won’t start to come about until the U.N. attacks the churches. The Queen is more likely to come out as being gay before that happens. Part of the U.N. charter is to protect human rights and that includes the right to worship whoever they wish. Not bad for a ‘worldly’ organisation, aye?

          • April 24, 2016 at 9:38 am
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            @Tracey:

            “All our loved ones are asleep in death awaiting a resurrection.”

            Persons are taught to believe in a resurrection because Jesus Christ showed that this was possible when he died and was resurrected from the dead.
            What historical proof do you have that Jesus Christ was in fact resurrected from the dead?

      • April 23, 2016 at 12:20 pm
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        I agree. Who are u all to be judging Prince or even the faith of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. One day very soon the TRUTH will be revealed. I long for that day.

        • April 24, 2016 at 2:05 am
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          Let’s talk again when these things start taking place.

  • April 22, 2016 at 6:11 am
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    At this point there is no cause of death known. I am not suggesting anything of the kind, but if it did turn out that the cause was drug related or some other similar issue, I wonder if the Watchtower will try to distance themselves from Prince and say he wasn’t really an active member. This would be similar to what they said about Michael Jackson around the time of the Thriller Video.

    WS

    • April 22, 2016 at 7:09 am
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      Of course they will distance themselves. Unless there is a big wad of money in it for them. We won’t find out which way they will turn until after the will is read. The autopsy is set for today…. if next week they announce it was a tragic illness then they will except any handouts ASAP but if next week they say it was down to drugs or something else then they will have to be careful how they go about excepting donations. We will see the hypocrisy, don’t you worry about it.

    • April 22, 2016 at 7:55 am
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      We’ll take his cash, but him we bash – in other words: Pecunia non olet.

    • April 22, 2016 at 12:03 pm
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      The rumor is that he was addicted to pain killers. WT will distance themselves from this if it’s true. He was a true genius. His music was part of my teenage years and his death is devastating. Like someone mentioned before, Prince had daddy issues and that’s what attracted him to the religion. That was mine. Also, Prince lost a child and tragedy opens you up to cults. I’m sure the resurrection “hope” was dangled before him.

      • April 23, 2016 at 8:25 pm
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        I lost a child. The promise I would see her,
        In the flesh, very soon, because the end was imminent, the twisted scriptures proving this, is the only reason I embraced this cult. I truly believed it. For nearly 50 years.

  • April 22, 2016 at 6:23 am
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    Prince’s only child died as a baby, how heart-breaking. Great tragedies can cause us to yearn for more satisfying answers.

    • April 22, 2016 at 6:44 pm
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      Yes. And the lucrative business of religion ‘preys’ upon such vulnerabilities.

  • April 22, 2016 at 6:55 am
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    The sad thing….or good thing for Princes sake, is that he led a totally insulated life from the garbage that’e espoused at a kingdom hall….he had a mentor…and that was it….could you imagine going to the hall, dressed as he would….you think you’d get a way with that? So he never was marginalized, or felt disenfranchised….he did not really experience being a jw….totally insulated from the day to day crap

    • April 22, 2016 at 9:03 am
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      Actually he did go to the king-dumb hall, a bit toned down, but I remember him wearing a fancy white suit, with tight pants and he definitely wore platform shoes. He was famous so he definitely got special treatment. I’m sure they wanted his donations. He attended my old congregation back in the early 2000’s as well as Chanhassen, the closest one to Paisley Park. No elder in either of those halls would have the cajones to council Prince on his dress and grooming…

    • April 22, 2016 at 12:12 pm
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      There were multiple stories about him touring Brooklyn Bethel in the late 90’s early 2000’s as well.

  • April 22, 2016 at 7:17 am
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    I am sorry to hear about Prince as I was a big fan of his music. As a kid raised by JW parents, I always got a lecture about Satan’s worldly debased music. Music that leads one away from high moral standards. I never listened to their rants and kept my music. And if I were a talented musician and wanted to be a rock star and make $$$ and have adoring fans, and wear sexy tight clothes, well, my parents and local elders would have kicked me to the curb. How did he manage it? He never seemed the picture of a Watchtower JW. He was an exception. I guess.

    • April 22, 2016 at 8:09 am
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      I’m sure he was an exception to the rules of the wt because of the monetary contributions he probably banked for them. Just like most of us, if that had been us in the norm, we would have been kicked out immediately.

      • April 24, 2016 at 12:25 pm
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        I was thinking the same thing.

  • April 22, 2016 at 7:49 am
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    I remember the Larry Graham article in the Awake! well. The funny thing about our society today is that when someone dies, s/he is automatically elevated up. Everyone gets caught up in the emotion because of all the attention. The witnesses are no different. However, we have to be careful when it comes to public figures and celebrities. We do not know them personally. Like my late mother used to say, “I’m always careful to say, ‘I like him/her as an actor or a singer,’ because we don’t know what they are like in real life.” Of course, we feel sad when a life is suddenly cut short. I appreciated the approach Lloyd took in his video.

  • April 22, 2016 at 7:54 am
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    we don’t see the video…?

    • April 22, 2016 at 8:33 am
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      ohp! now I do, sorry…

  • April 22, 2016 at 8:06 am
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    I sure hope and pray that Prince didn’t have the wt org as his beneficiary!

    • April 22, 2016 at 8:35 pm
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      That’s my concern too. The idea even came to me, that the watchtower poisoned him after he sign a petition for them to keep a certain percentage of his property’s worth. That way they could use that money to pay off the child abuse cases in silence and bring less attention to themselves from the media. Even the righteous find reasons to justify murdering someone.

      Then again, I tend to over think

  • April 22, 2016 at 8:39 am
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    Anyone who was a JW from my generation (the birth of rock & roll) knows perfectly well that no “brother” could get away with dressing or presenting as Prince did. He would never have been accepted as a baptismal candidate. Any such “interested one” would be “marked” by the elders as someone the congregation needed to be wary of. Striving for a rock or pop music career would have triggered serious counseling. How Prince and the ridiculous Jackson clan got away with being quite literally beyond “worldly” are mind-boggling examples of Watchtower hypocrisy.

    • April 22, 2016 at 11:17 am
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      They had millions of dollars and can sue the Watchtower for everything they have if Watchtower got out of hand. Much different situation, if you only make between 10 and 15 USD per hour. In addition, they were a celebrity and had a lot of pull from Presidents and other governmental authorities. Watchtower could not rock the boat on these types.

  • April 22, 2016 at 9:31 am
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    Prince was like Mozart. He was a genius of music. From what I gather, he seemed to be a very gentle and sensitive person. Yeah, he was different in many ways. Most true genius artists are cut of such a cloth and that’s a good thing. Being a radically different personality usually helps creativity and genius. I really liked his music and style. He’ll be missed by many.

  • April 22, 2016 at 9:33 am
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    I was talking to my JW mom on the phone last night. Of course, this came up. I’m like ‘mom, did you know that Prince was a JW?’ — and she quickly went ‘ahhh.. i don’t really know about that; not with his lifestyle. Only Jehovah really knows.’ — yeah, special treatment indeed. Noone else gets that ‘benefit of the doubt’. They accept you as a faithful sheep that does everything they say, or you’re out. RIP, Prince.

  • April 22, 2016 at 9:42 am
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    When I was in the org during the late ’80s, I remember a lot of witnesses tuning out his music because their “bible trained consciences” would not allow them to listen to sexy lyrics. They would change the radio channel if one of his songs came on. I also knew sisters who would not take aerobics classes at the community center because there was a chance they might play Prince or Michael Jackson’s songs.

    • April 23, 2016 at 5:55 am
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      I remember a “brother” changing the radio station when George Michael’s “Too Funky” came on and was thinking to my self, “Hey, I like that song. Oh well, I have the song and remixes at home. I’ll listen to it later.”

  • April 22, 2016 at 10:27 am
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    I don’t know anything about his music. Not my generation.
    But I do know about arthritis, it’s excruciatingly painful.

    I understand Prince needed two hip replacements but was
    having a problem getting the operation performed without
    blood .

    Just a few days ago he was taken to hospital and was given
    an injection which was an antidote for opiate overdose.

    Purely speculation on my part but the opiates could have
    been taken to dull arthritis pain. Any one whose afflicted
    by this disease knows there’s hardly anything you wouldn’t
    take to get relief.

    I feel sorry for him, as I do for anyone whose mind gets messed
    up, by being drawn into the jw snake pit.

  • April 22, 2016 at 11:10 am
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    Prince did wear tight fitting pants. Maybe Anthony Morris III sent out his SS guards to monitor the situation. Prince could not take much more of this and found himself in a catch-22. This could have been the last straw. We will wait and see when the autopsy report comes back.

  • April 22, 2016 at 12:05 pm
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    I just read from the daily mail. “Speculation suggests Prince’s money – and huge estate – could now be left to the Jehovah’s Witnesses church he attended for nearly 15 years.
    Kingdom Hall in Chanhassen – hidden behind a line of trees less than half a mile from the Prince’s property – is said to be where the singer went to after converting to the faith in 2001.”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3553720/Unmarried-no-children-Jehovah-s-Witnesses-church-Prince-s-family-inherit-300m-fortune-sprawling-Minnesota-mansion-unreleased-music-century.html#ixzz46aFX2TBB

    • April 22, 2016 at 12:09 pm
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      Most likely, Prince’s death is going to turn into a potential ‘windfall’ for the Watchtower. Please, does any one know if Prince did leave a will?

    • April 26, 2016 at 2:35 am
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      “Speculation” from the UK about Estate Law in the USA. How completely silly. Right on the level of the National Enquirer.

      Minnesota Intesticy Laws are clear and specific. So far, no will has been produced and all sources say Prince had no will. If that is the case then his entire estate will go to his sister. There in no legal basis (other than a valid will) to challenge of this. By all accounts she is his only legal heir.

      Even if someone else, like the WT or his ex-wife produce a will, it will have to go through probate court first. The validity of such a will could be challenged by his sister, depending on circumstances. It would certainly be worth her while to do so.

      To all the foolish UK “reporters”: In the USA, churches do not inherit monies from the estates of members who die intestate.

  • April 22, 2016 at 2:04 pm
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    I recall a stalwart pioneer telling me how he threw out his Abba collection following a district convention talk on ‘worldly’ music. By non-JW standards Prince was risqué, so the seeming absence of condemnation when he was alive and performing his catalogue, and the posts of condolences by JWs is nauseating. If the GB have no qualms about putting millions of dollars in the financial cesspits that are hedge funds, I can’t see them turning their noses up at Prince’s will, if he has left any to them, and it’s not contested by family members.

  • April 22, 2016 at 2:42 pm
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    Sorry folks if the truth be known….basically he was a hypocrite like a all mega star and run of the mill Jehovah’s Witnesses. Loved the “world” and all it had to offer. End of story!

    • April 23, 2016 at 8:19 pm
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      I agree!

  • April 22, 2016 at 3:37 pm
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    Surely if his estate is left to the Organization and his parents, it will have been a blessing from above. Just like sand from a hurricane. There has got to be a way they will spin it. It was meant to be.

    And I have to agree with some of the first posts on this article about the similarities between the 7th Day Adventists and JW’s. I was in Savannah, Georgia, USA, and walking around a historic area, and there was a huge cathedral, and right out in front, under the words Seventh Day Adventist was the word JEHOVAH, engraved in the marble. So there are a lot of similarities between the two beliefs.

    • April 23, 2016 at 3:50 am
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      Ellen White, the great Seventh-Day Adventist prophetess, actually uses the name Jehovah quite frequently in her writings. Also, her magnum opus “The Great Controversy” is written from pretty much the same perspective as much of Watchtower literature: All of history is a grand experiment tolerated by God, Satan being allowed to rule for a while, so that it will become evident to all righteous people how detestable sin is. After Satan’s rule has been shown to be a failure, God will judge the world. The unsaved do not go to hell, but are simply annihilated.

      Sounds familiar?

      When I read “The Great Controversy”, it struck me that there were entire chapters that could — except for a few sentences — just as well come from a Watchtower book.

      Nevertheless, Ellen White is sometimes condemned in Watchtower literature, mainly because her genitals had the wrong configuration for a leading religious figure. The ideological debt is rarely acknowledged, though Russell apparently did say that he learned much from the Adventists.

      • April 23, 2016 at 8:33 am
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        “The Great Controversy”………interesting magnum opus of Ellen G. White which has influenced WT doctrine.

        According to the Bible Adam and Eve did not know right from wrong when they sinned, they did not know good from evil until AFTER they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It was only AFTER the two ate from the forbidden tree that they developed a moral sense yet in a huff God decided that he would let Satan rule in his stead for a while?

        Why didn’t God allow Adam & Eve to die in the very day that they ate the forbidden fruit just like he promised so that they wouldn’t pass on sin to their descendants?

        According to the bible God destroyed all the wicked persons during the flood of Noah’s day and left only the righteous. Couldn’t God have done similarly with Adam & Eve? Couldn’t he have put Adam & Eve to death and keep repeating the process until he found a human pair who would obey before allowing them to have children and sin to enter the world?

        Couldn’t God have prevented evil from entering the earth in the first place in the case of Adam and Eve and still leave free will in tact? Sin entered the world because God chose to put the tree of the knowledge of good and bad where Adam and Eve, who at the time had no concept of good and evil, could access it. Had God chosen to put the tree out of Adam’s and Eve’s reach, no fruit eaten and thus sin does not enter, while leaving free will intact. God could also have chosen not to make that tree at all too. After all, being all-knowing, God would have known the choice Adam and Eve were going to make especially given the fact that they were lacking in moral sense and did not know how to distinguish between right and wrong, good and evil.

        • April 23, 2016 at 12:32 pm
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          So God had a few options from which he could choose in order to prevent sin from entering the world. Yet God chose to let sin in just so that there could be a “Great Controversy” so that Ellen G. White could write a magnum opus about it and the WT could derive it’s theology from White’s magnum opus. YAAY God!

  • April 22, 2016 at 4:16 pm
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    Iam so happy he found Jehovah! Love & prayers to his family & Friends

    • April 22, 2016 at 7:14 pm
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      Are you sure Jehovah did’nt find him? What a fine example of what a JW represents. Sets a standard for all witnesses who want to gain Jehovah’s approval. Sophie & Caleb take note.

    • April 23, 2016 at 4:33 pm
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      Amen

  • April 22, 2016 at 4:19 pm
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    Prince and the new power ‘overlapping’ generation.
    Other famous J-Dubs include:
    Hank Marvin
    George Benson
    Michael Jackson ‘s mum
    And….
    Delroy Grant (Rapist and murderer of the elderly)
    Rose West (child rapist, torturer and killer)

    These last two are apparently more deserving of eternity as Gardeners, than anyone who reads and comments on this site.

    RIP Prince. You were wicked. (In a totally righteous way)

  • April 22, 2016 at 5:48 pm
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    Was Prince a baptised JW or an unbaptised publisher?

  • April 22, 2016 at 7:52 pm
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    Cedars has every right to tell the truth about this outstanding example of what it means to be a JW and represent the great almighty Jehobah God of the universe.Obviously this prince is part of the new anointed and will reign with Christ the King by his side for a thousand years. ( Even wearing his very tight pants and singing lets party like its 1914 err 1975 err 1999 err lets say tomorrow). The Watchtower & Witnesses have lost a true example of them. Oh well…we still have Venus and Serena as outstanding examples.Again Sophie & Caleb take note.

  • April 22, 2016 at 7:53 pm
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    You can bet your wife and home that the watchtower is waiting for the reading of Prince’s will.They are more concerned about what is in his will for them.They already have their legal department on alert. They are like a bunch of greedy vulchers when it comes to money. watch out.

    • April 22, 2016 at 8:23 pm
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      And you know this? How? may i ask

      • April 22, 2016 at 8:54 pm
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        Bruce
        Pull yer head outa yer ass…. The governing body knowingly and willingly allow child molesters to run hidden amongst the congregations without announcement from the platform because what they really care about is image and making sure incidents of child molestation don’t wind up in the media or courts where they could lose millions.
        Do your research!
        G

        • April 23, 2016 at 4:39 pm
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          Amen, but you know since the days of Noah people have not change. They have this bitter spirit and hate what they don’t understand. The same spirit that was with the mob who wanted the blood of Jesus Christ spilled. An innocent man teaching love, the same ones who stoned the first Christians for preaching. As in 2 Timothy says we have living in the last days.

        • April 23, 2016 at 8:39 pm
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          @Emily:

          “………since the days of Noah people have not change.”

          So how does a moral and omniscient God justify wiping out most of life (not just humans – according to the Bible, God was angry with human wickedness but he destroyed animals as well) in a worldwide Flood during Noah’s day if mankind was only to continue on as before? What was the point, since god being omniscient knew beforehand that we would just go back to our old ways?

          God must be a cynical being or crazy knowing that after Noah’s great Flood, man would become corrupt again, yet he still goes through with it or maybe god does not know what the hell he is doing since the Flood wasn’t worth it, it did not accomplish anything.

          God must be cynical and crazy to wipe out every living creature on the planet just to punish the majority of ONE sinful species. The animals had nothing to do with sin, yet they were killed anyway. Dolphins, whales, sharks, fishes, manatees etc., obviously they wouldn’t have drowned…..if not, why did God choose to kill the land animals but not the sea animals?

          “………the mob who wanted the blood of Jesus Christ spilled.”

          Or was it God who wanted the blood of Jesus Christ spilled, because He required Jesus’ death as the only mechanism by which he would or could forgive individual humans for their sins?
          Also, according to the Bible all have sinned, this then means that every human being who has ever lived shares in the guilt of causing Jesus’ death………if humans did not sin, Jesus’ execution would not be necessary.

          “………since the days of Noah people have not change”,
          so what proof do you have then, that we are living in the last days? How is it that we are living in the last days if people have not changed since the days if Noah?

      • April 23, 2016 at 5:41 am
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        Bruce,
        It’s all about previous form, which is very convincing: Sell your principles when it’s too hot, eg blood fractions, UN affiliation, lying on oath at the Australian royal commission, investing in hedge funds, begging for money, overlapping generations etc. How much evidence do you need before you see that this doomsday cult that’s been shouting the end of times is just around the corner – for over a hundred years! – is a man-made, man run racket.

        • April 24, 2016 at 1:56 am
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          Does not the bible itself says the end is near? You don’t have to be a JW to know we living in the last days. Many people I know believe this and they not witnesses. It is inevitable.

          • April 24, 2016 at 7:19 am
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            @Tracey:

            “Does not the bible itself says the end is near?”
            Where does the Bible state this?

            “You don’t have to be a JW to know we living in the last days.”
            What proof do you have that we are living in the last days?

            “Many people I know believe this and they not witnesses. It is inevitable.”

            There are also many people who believe that we are NOT living in the last days – this includes Christians who believe in Preterism.

          • April 24, 2016 at 7:29 am
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            ******………this includes Christians who believe in Preterism AND NO MILLENNIALISM.

          • April 26, 2016 at 8:47 am
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            And there are a lot of people that claim to still see little green men and Sasquatch too!!! Very recently, a whole bunch of people were convinced that the Mayan calendar ends in 2012, so the world must end too. Problem is, there aren’t any Mayans around anymore, only those who made a bunch of money writing such crap. Much like the WTBTS.

            I place any doomsayers in this same category. The sun will rise, the sun will set, and the wheels on the bus will go around and around. Count on that!

  • April 23, 2016 at 12:09 pm
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    Lloyd you clearly never paid attention when you attended the meetings of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Nothing is done for the Governing body. We are guided by the bible. So when Jehovah’s witnesses don’t take blood it’s not because the governing body says so but because the bible says so which is inspired by Jehovah God.

    • April 23, 2016 at 2:40 pm
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      Tracey,
      The bible is purportedly God’s word, so why can it be interpreted in so many, sometimes, conflicted, ways by so many scholars? The bible doesn’t really prohibit blood transfusions, but the first century christians upheld one of the 1500 BC commandments not to eat blood as a concession to first century Jews converting to Christianity, who, along with circumcision, could not let go of all the literal dos and don’ts that the hundreds of commandments which they slavishly lived by which Jesus made redundant. The GB wrote this ‘law’ for so called modern day christians as applied to medical treatment. And what about blood fractions? Where in your bible does it say blood products ARE allowed as medical treatment provided they are small parts of whole blood? And why was this ‘truth’ not seen until the mid 90s? This is not clarification of scripture, but changes to an interpretation invented by a group of men wanting ‘product differentiation ‘. The sacrifice is needless and totally unscriptural. I am a baptized JW, but I could not stomach the shift in system of faith from following Jesus and worshipping God, to following the GB and worshipping the organization. It happened so gradually that people like you either didn’t notice it, or inherited it. You need to think more and obey less.

      • April 23, 2016 at 9:02 pm
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        Tracey,

        If only we could all be so naive like you. If you took a blood transfusion & the Elders found out about it. What do you think would happen to you? Think about it.

        • April 23, 2016 at 10:29 pm
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          Firstly I would never take a blood transfusion. And it’s not about fearing the elders. At the end of the day we have to answer to God. The elders are there to Shepherd the flock. Grace the truth will be revealed.

          • April 23, 2016 at 11:41 pm
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            Tracey,

            Yes, the truth is being revealed. Every day in the newspapers the world is getting to know how dangerous this religion is to people & how tight a grip they have over people with personal medical decisions like blood.

    • April 23, 2016 at 8:52 pm
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      Since you feel it is biblically wrong to use a blood transfusion to save someone’s life, I suppose it was also wrong for Jesus to heal on the sabbath. After all that’s the letter of the law. If that’s the way your read your bible then you have totally missed the point. Christ taught that life was more important than the letter of the law. He told the Pharisees ‘who would not rescue his son if he fell into a pit on the sabbath?’ Even the rabbis have a standard called picuah nephesh – translation ‘life overrides law.’

      WS

      • April 24, 2016 at 1:49 am
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        Grace do you believe in the bible? Do you consider yourself a Christian? If you do then you know the Truth will be revealed.

        • April 24, 2016 at 2:01 pm
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          Tracey,

          Your version of the truth is different to so many others on this planet that believe in the Bible yet all believe that they have the “truth”. Each belief system picks what they want from the Bible to create their ideology.

          This religion is bases its doctrine on many non-scriptual rules so whether I believe in the Bible or not has not a lot to do with this religion being the “truth”.

          • April 24, 2016 at 2:04 pm
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            Sorry about that last paragraph its meant to make sense but it’s 5 am here in Australia;)

    • April 24, 2016 at 11:23 am
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      Tracey, LLoyd paid attention very well, and he thought deeply about what he was being taught, which is why he was ultimately able to break free of the indoctrination. The Governing Body was preceded by several key men in the JW organization, including Nathan Knorr and JF Rutherford. Are you aware of the history of the blood policy within the JW organization? It is likely not what you think, and it has taken many twists and turns over the years, to the point where today, you can accept a blood “fraction” without penalty. But let me ask you Tracey, where did the blood fraction come from?

      Will you accept a blood fraction?

      If so, will you donate blood, which is the source of these fractions?

      Do you know what will happen to you if you donate blood?

      The blood policy has nothing to do with God or Christ, it has everything to do with solidarity as an organization – being different, and having an interpretation of the Scriptures which makes Jehovah’s Witnesses stand out. Without the blood policy, disfellowshipping and shunning, and the publishing empire, Jehovah’s Witnesses would be un-newsworthy. They have adopted this blood policy which has nothing to do with pouring blood out upon the ground and making God happy. If you believe in the teachings of Jesus, you would not for one minute believe that he would allow a child to die because of a mandate from the Governing Body of JWs. These men meet every Wednesday and vote on your life – the vote on how you can dress, how you preach, what you can watch, and what kind of medical care is acceptable. This is not God, it is men.

      We are happy you are here reading important articles, and I would recommend that you read Ray Franz book Crisis of Conscience – this will give you very deep insight into what goes on inside the Governing Body, and will show you how their decisions were rarely based on scripture, but on personal opinions, and a 2/3 vote was needed to confirm a decision. Your eyes will be opened widely I can assure you. This is your life – make sure you read everything you can to get all of the facts. It will make a difference, I promise

      JR

  • April 23, 2016 at 2:19 pm
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    The service department had instructed the local elders NOT to approve Prince to become a non baptized publisher without their permission. They did the same before approving him for baptism.

    The GB through the service department stayed in close communication with Princes’ elders as to his progress and had to answer specific questions about how conduct and morality.

    Both his becoming a publisher and baptism were directly approved by headquarters due to his celebrity status. The WT did not trust the local elders to make such decision.

    My source is someone reliable with direct knowledge in Patterson where the service department was located at the time.

  • April 23, 2016 at 3:06 pm
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    @ Tracy, The problem was, we paid too much attention,
    always accepting, never questioning. A sure way to
    become a victim of any fraudster. Col,2:8.

    Can you explain, Why you are allowed to accept fractions
    from blood that has been donated specifically for use in
    transfusions? And can you tell us if you yourself would
    donate blood? And if not why not?

    Also, as the blood prohibition is exclusively a dietary law
    and every Bible reference to it bears this out. Can you
    explain by whose authority you are adding things to the
    Bible by extending it to medical use?

    • April 23, 2016 at 3:37 pm
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      I once heard a secular Jew say that the Jews’ dietary laws/food regulations were necessary given that they didn’t have refrigeration back in the day.

      Interestingly, the Jews who were purportedly “inspired” by God to write the Bible containing the blood prohibition dietary law/food regulation, are not against blood transfusions and blood donations.

      It should also be noted that meat can never be completely rid/cleaned of its blood. Meat purchased from the supermarket still has blood in it thus everybody who eats meat, eats some blood. JWs should be vegetarians since they shouldn’t consume blood.

      I am sure the JWs, especially the females eat meat as a source of iron – meat is a good source of iron because it has blood in it, how ironic for the JWs.

      • April 23, 2016 at 11:48 pm
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        So JWs eat meat which still has some blood in it but they can’t get a blood transfusion.

    • April 23, 2016 at 10:16 pm
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      Well where I come from they encourage us to not just accept. We need to ask questions and to look to the Scriptures for the answers. I was brought up in the truth. And when I got to a certain age I also questioned my faith and compared other religions i wanted to make syre this is the truth and went searching for the answers and happy to be a part of the Christian Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses. You have to make the truth your own. You can’t just carry on because you were brought up in the faith. And besides…. Jesus said no one comes to me unless the father calls them. God is searching the hearts of people.

      • April 23, 2016 at 11:30 pm
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        So, Tracey, what did you do to examine other religions? Did you go to Japan? Did you go to India or China? What about Eskimo’s? If you know so much, please tell me about these other ‘false’ beliefs and in the same depth as you know yours. No, girl, with respect, you know nothing. All you’ve done to research these other beliefs is to read the Watchtower version of them which adds up to nothing more than reading Watchtower cult propaganda designed with the sole purpose of keeping you believing their view on things. That’s not research. When you’re encouraged to examine scriptures at the meetings, watch out if you don’t come up with the scripted answer they want by using the NWT. You will be turned around to believe what they demand! Why was the normal version of the bible used by JW’s until during Rutherford’s reign? It’s because their beliefs became so far out of wack with the Bible and so easily dis-proved and so many questions were being asked that they were forced to print their own Bible and call it ‘new and improved’. To do that is one of the major signs of a cult. Now do now you see why they discourage ‘independent thinking’, a.k.a. ‘using your brains’?

        • April 24, 2016 at 9:11 am
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          You don’t need to go to another country to learn the truth or any other religion. And no I never got my info from the witnesses. If you search you will find answers. One has to be humble and have the right motives.

          • April 24, 2016 at 8:05 pm
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            yes tracey,you don’t have to go to another country for you to know the truth about their religions.just keep lingering here around this blog and sooner or later you will know the truth about the truth and welcome to the world of wt apostates

  • April 23, 2016 at 7:56 pm
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    Oh my god, did anyone else read this in People magazine?

    “The Jehovah’s Witness Church has released a statement following the untimely death of Prince, who officially converted to the religion in 2003.

    “We are saddened to hear about the death of Prince Rogers Nelson, who was baptized as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in 2003,” a church spokesperson, David A. Semonian, said in a statement obtained by PEOPLE.

    Semonian said that Prince “found fulfillment as a Witness and in sharing his faith with others.”

    The statement added: “We do not have any details regarding his medical condition or the cause of his death. Our thoughts are with his family and friends, particularly his fellow worshippers in the Saint Louis Park congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Minnesota. We hope that all find comfort in the Bible’s promise of a future time when death, pain, and tears will be no more.—Revelation 21:3, 4.”

    In true shameless witness fashion they have used the death of someone to promote their cult agenda.

  • April 23, 2016 at 8:50 pm
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    Mr lloyd… You seem to have it all figured out! Ask any person in any religion to stand up and say “i beleive in God, Jesus but not in the men at the head of the church” … They will probably throw you out… Jehovah’s witnesses will stop you from interfering with any meetings but they will definitely not stop you from beleiving what you want to beleive… The chouce is yours… If you don’t beleive the faithful and discreet slave is sent to us by Jehovah… Find another religion that’s all. Nobody forcing your hand.

    • April 23, 2016 at 9:00 pm
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      @Stephan
      “but they will definitely not stop you from beleiving what you want to beleive”

      Sorry, but I have to call BS on that. Oh sure you can believe whatever you want, but don’t you dare speak of it. Why don’t you try commenting at the meeting about how you don’t believe that Christ started ruling in 1914 or something similar and see how fast the elders have you in the back room and are talking about apostasy.

      WS

      • April 23, 2016 at 10:23 pm
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        Think you missed his point. If you don’t believe in what they teach join another religion. You not forced to go to the kingdom hall and you have a choice to either accept or disagree but if you want to be a part of this organisation then we all have to be United in faith.

        • April 24, 2016 at 5:44 am
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          It’s nice that you have all the answers Tracey. What you fail to realize is that those answers have been programmed in you by a cult. I was the same way for my 30+ years in the sect. But then I woke up and found out the truth about the “truth.” To be part of this organization, you all have to believe the same. But that’s not according to scripture. Have you ever read Romans 14:1-12 where it says some Christians would keep a certain day as holy and yet others would not? Yet they were not to judge others for it. This unity at all costs that the JWs require is not in line with the scriptures.

          WS

    • April 24, 2016 at 11:07 am
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      Stephan

      You are incorrect – the choice is not ours, as the indoctrination of young Jehovah’s Witnesses is so incredibly powerful and controlling, that baptisms take place at 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 years of age, and so forth. These children have no idea what life changing decision they are making, and have no idea that they can’t change their religion and choose to celebrate Christmas or Birthdays without being disfellowshipped and shunned by their immediate family for the rest of their lives.

      The indoctrination of children the the subsequent demolition of thousands of families is absolutely devastating, and no child should be held accountable for such a life altering decision when they are still in a developmental stage.

      So – when you say “nobody is forcing your hand” – this is utter nonsense and is completely insensitive to the fact that most people would NEVER EVER wish to be part of such a controlling fundamentalist religion if they were given the opportunity as an adult. Their hand is forced SEVERELY as minors, and they find out later that they made a huge mistake which is irreversible. Think about what you said. It’s not a choice, its a coercion.

      • April 25, 2016 at 1:02 pm
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        John that’s not entirely true. They actually don’t encourage baptism at such a young age. Dedicating your life to serve God is a very serious decision which should not be taken lightly.

        • April 25, 2016 at 5:52 pm
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          Tracey – you stated that “that’s not entirely true” – which means you accept that in your mind it is at the very least partly true

          Children are baptized at very young ages now. If 3 elders determine that they feel the child is old enough to make this decision, then they proceed with the baptism.

          You need to understand that it is these elders which encourage and allow this, not the child. Naturally the child will want to be baptized – this is all he or she knows. Their whole life of just a few short years has been surrounded by Jehovah’s Witness parents, friends, elders, circuit overseers – all people who are telling them that this is the only choice -it is the “best way of life ever”. This is exactly what coercion and indoctrination is all about. These children do not have the maturity to make this decision, and they certainly have no idea what is in store for them when they decide to leave the religion, or have a relationship with another peer, or get an education in a proper university.

          The doors are slammed shut on these children before they every have a chance to develop their minds. This is criminal, and should never be allowed. I was 16 when baptized, and I thought I knew everything – about religion, the world, the organization, so I made my dedication and was baptized, and it took me 30 years to wake up and realize I had lost my education and many other opportunities in life.

          The organization knows that if a child is exposed to proper education and the entire outside world, most would never make the mistake of joining a high control religious cult which monitors every aspect of their lives, right down to the pants they wear.

          Meditate on that, please, and know that we will not stop until children are protected from these dangers

          Sincerely

          JR

          • April 25, 2016 at 10:22 pm
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            I am not saying young children don’t get baptised. I am saying to go out and make a statement that they are encouraging very young children to get baptised is not entirely true. Yes they encourage the youth to work towards baptism but it is also the parent responsibility to make sure the children are really ready to make such a big commitment and that they understand the severity of the decision. I have met some brothers who have been baptised at a very young age and I am touched by their loyalty and faith for being so dedicated and faithful to Jehovah. Just shows that it is possible. But most of the youth I know that are getting baptised are around 17 and 20. It depends also I guess on how mature one is. Having said this it is a decision that should not be taken lightly.

          • April 26, 2016 at 3:36 pm
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            Tracey

            Please read the comments posted which refer to all of the JW publications as well as the Governing Body audio/video clips which demonstrate the pressure placed on youths in the organization

            What is interesting is that you already admitted that baptism is a “big commitment” – so you and I are halfway to coming to an agreement. At this point, the only discussion is whether you can understand that such a “big commitment” should ever be placed on the shoulders of a minor.

            The correct answer is a resounding NO. Never should a child be endowed with the pressure of giving away his or her rights to leave this fundamentalist religion without the benefit of knowing all available options.

            You have handcuffed such a child and fed them with ONE doctrine and ONE doctrine only – that of the Jehovah’s Witness organization. Witness children are encouraged by Caleb and Sophia to use their “valuable things” including their ice cream money to further the interests of the Governing Body, who by the way do absolutely NO charitable works in the community. I know this for a fact after 46 years in the organization. Children are told that baptism is “for their protection” – but it is anything but that – it is a method to keep them as a captive audience, and shield them from a proper university education. I was baptized at 16, and I believed everything the organization taught. And why was that? Because I trusted my parents and all of my JW friends, who convinced me that the “end was near” and that I would not likely ever make it through high school, let alone college, before the world that saw the events of 1914 would end, ushering in “God’s Kingdom”.

            In the end, children should be taught good morals and behavior, which are not exclusive to religion, but are common to both religious persons and atheists alike. Anything beyond that Tracey is indoctrination, which is exactly what Hitler youth and children of Muslim extremists are being taught. They are brainwashed into a dangerous belief system which teaches that everyone else is in the “world” and they are alienated from society. This is how a cult operates.

            Witness children should be taught only good morals, and should never be forced into a baptism which seals their fate should they decide later that this is not the truth. They should not be allowed under any circumstances to be baptized as minors, considering the consequences of leaving the religion. The consequences must be eliminated, as this is a violation of human rights, and is child abuse. Hopefully you will recognize this soon.

          • April 25, 2016 at 10:33 pm
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            Tracey:

            According to the Bible, Jesus knew the scriptures at age 12 to the point where he was questioning the elders and teachers in the temple during Passover. Yet Jesus was not baptized until he was 30 years old.

          • April 28, 2016 at 3:34 pm
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            There are youths who after getting baptized get disfellowshipped then shunning is used as emotional blackmail to lure disfellowshipped children back to the religion:
            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ-kzaIK_UA

            The emotional blackmail works in the case of some youths who become reinstated, even though they don’t believe the “truth”, but simply because they desperately want their familial bonds. Some youths however, become very depressed to the point of committing suicide due to the loss of their family bond.
            Parents think that it is loving to shun their children, to cut their own child out of their lives, they have made the love for their children conditional, that is inhumane. God endorses broken families.

        • April 25, 2016 at 7:16 pm
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          Tracey:

          JWs practice child baptism some as young a six have been mentioned in their literature:
          – WATCHTOWER 1992 3/1 p.27
          – Year Book 2011 p.58

          It seems you didn’t get a copy of the March 2016 WT with the following study articles regarding child baptism:

          Young Ones—Are You Ready to Get Baptized?
          https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-march-2016/young-ones-ready-baptism/

          Young Ones—How Can You Prepare for Baptism?
          https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-march-2016/young-ones-how-to-prepare-for-baptism/

          Also, see the Australian Royal Commission (ARC) website –
          the transcript of the testimony of GB member Geoffrey Jackson (GJ) in the child abuse investigation carried out by the ARC is of interest:

          ARC: (in discussing the early baptism of members) as one of the governing body do you think, at that age, (as early as 8 or even younger) one is old enough and mature enough to make a decision affecting the rest of their lives?

          GJ: Yes I do, in some cases. I have worked with people who were baptized when they were 11, and they have stuck by that determination their entire lives.

          ARC: Well that may be because they cannot leave the organization without leaving behind everyone they may know.

          GJ: Anything is possible.

        • April 25, 2016 at 7:23 pm
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          Tracey:

          GB member Anthony Morris III speaks about teenage baptism in the following video:
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKVMFGfh0uc

          According to the person in the video at:
          https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=CES0o2qh8FQ
          “I was baptized in my early teens because I was told it was the right thing to do. At that stage of my young life, I had no idea that the decision to get baptized would ultimately be the worse decision of my life. I left the organization in my early 20’s and because I was baptised, I have been shunned by my parents for most of my life. I made a call to the Watchtower headquarters to demonstrate their warped views on children dedicating their lives to this organization through baptism. I asked what the process would be to annul my baptism. I am not surprised by this elder’s response and out of principle, I want to share it to prevent other families from being destroyed by this cult. The use of shunning is the most effective fear tactic the Watchtower is notorious for… Annuling baptisms would defeat the purpose.”

        • April 25, 2016 at 10:35 pm
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          Tracey:

          According to the Bible, Jesus knew the scriptures at age 12 to the point where he was questioning the elders and teachers in the temple during Passover. Yet Jesus was not baptized until he was 30 years old.

        • April 27, 2016 at 7:21 am
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          My granddaughter is 7 years old. 7! She is already being groomed for baptism. He uncle, an elder, has already told me that once she is baptised she will be told she will no longer be able to freely associate with her df’d father. She is 7 years old! She can no longer play with her friends from school. She can only play with witness kids. She is no longer allowed to have free speech. She is a little automaton. Her mother and father split up when her mother got pregnant to a worldly guy. Both got df’d because of the lies told against my son to justify her screwing around. We had no one on our side but she had a huge family of witnesses including Elders, MS and such like. They gathered the wagons and she was reinstated as soon as she married the father of her kids… who left his wife and two other children to do that. My son eventually moved in with and married a wonderful non witness girl and they have just had a baby. She was born at 24 wks and weighing 1Lb 5. She had to have a bloodtransfusion to save her life and I am glad her father was df’d so my grandbaby could live. She is still fighting. If the WT had, had it’s way she would be dead now… oh but wait, she would have the resurrection hope….. I say BS. WT destroys families and lives. You want the truth. Open your eyes. It’s there, right in front of you and I am glad you have the courage to come here and comment. Because, hun it shows you are searching. One does not peer into the mouth of the dragon unless there is a reason. I suspect deep down you have a reason. Kudo’s to you. But please don’t ever try to tell me how wonderful the society is. I am re finding the truth after years of being indoctrinated…. It is like a breath of fresh air. I still pray…. I am now spiritual, NOT religious. I will never go back to organised religion which is ‘a racket and a snare’.

          • April 27, 2016 at 3:25 pm
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            Hi Tara , This comment scares me aged 7 and being groomed for baptism. It really is yet another form of child abuse. I am trying to stay the days of execution of my own offspring. There are only so many feeble excuses one can come up with. I think you know what I mean. Ironically a close relative has recently been dfd not even out of teens yet and the gparents have shut up badgering my kids. I actually shudder to think of my own attempts to indoctrinate my kids when I believed all this nonsense. They know my stance but there is always the interfering ninnies and elderettes who have their mission from god. I need an apostate miracle! Ruthlee

        • April 28, 2016 at 3:38 pm
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          “……it is also the parent responsibility to make sure the children are really ready to make such a big commitment and that they understand the severity of the decision.”

          What about the elders who approve the child for baptism?

        • April 28, 2016 at 3:40 pm
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          There are youths who after getting baptized get disfellowshipped then shunning is used as emotional blackmail to lure disfellowshipped children back to the religion:
          https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ-kzaIK_UA

          The emotional blackmail works in the case of some youths who become reinstated, even though they don’t believe the “truth”, but simply because they desperately want their familial bonds. Some youths however, become very depressed to the point of committing suicide due to the loss of their family bond.
          Parents think that it is loving to shun their children, to cut their own child out of their lives, they have made the love for their children conditional, they are inhumane. God endorses broken families.

  • April 23, 2016 at 8:57 pm
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    Another thing that helps one find the true religion is Love. So who one here would trust a brother in the faith (that you never met) from North Korea (any country would do) to come live in their home, while your not there, leaving them your vehicle so they can get around. Ask any faith if they would do that? Your answer will tell you who truly loves and trust their brothers in the faith.

    • April 23, 2016 at 9:01 pm
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      Stephen,

      You obviously live in the jwbubble world. Have you read the child abuse scandal that is in the organisation. It’s horrendous because of the trusting nature of witnesses.

      • April 23, 2016 at 10:12 pm
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        Stephan… if you want to know who has control over you, just identify who you are not allowed to criticise. But ask the Watchtower before you do that.

    • April 24, 2016 at 3:07 am
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      It is apparent you have never done this.
      I have done in, for many years, and I can tell you
      the taking advantage, the abuses, are legion.
      They include using our phone to call overseas and leaving us with tremendous bills (twice, different people) algo denying it when confronted. I could go on and on. If you wonder why we continued offering
      our home to strangers during district assemblies, it is because when you are brainwashed you do that and more.

    • April 24, 2016 at 10:47 am
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      Stephan Friz. I to trusted the Brothers from another country. I sponsored them into my home for 6 months as they were refugees. There were 5 of them
      that I supported and gladly did so with only love in my heart. The grandfather of the bunch was caught trying to molest my young 9 year old daughter. He abruptly denied it and at that time the Brothers told me NOT to call the police. He tried touching her and kissing her. Thankfully she was able to get him out of her bedroom and lock the door when he tried to come back in. Another “brother” cheated me in a business transaction out of more than $50k and lied when he said he did not fake the amount of money on the business dealing. Another brother I deal with in business created FAKE invoices to write off fake business expenses to lower his tax debt.

      I know not all JW’s are like this and I have done business with some very honest and good ones but my point is they are not much different that dealing with “WORLDLY” people. In fact I have dealt with Worldly people who are just as honest and more in many cases.

    • April 25, 2016 at 5:06 pm
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      Here’s an example of a nice brother that you could have left the keys to your house & car to.

  • April 23, 2016 at 8:59 pm
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    Stephen Friz,

    I wish that you could leave those same comments on jw.org, but you can’t because they don’t allow free expression of thought.

    • April 23, 2016 at 10:08 pm
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      Exactly, Grace. The owners of this site encourage visitors to correct him over any mistakes whatsoever. Like I said before, nothing like that exists on JW.Org and not only that, all JW’s know the unwritten statement of : If you notice anything wrong and don’t shut the hell up about it you’re dead at armaggedon. Nice cult!

  • April 23, 2016 at 9:03 pm
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    Markie,

    You make me laugh with your high minded attitude to everyone here. I bet you go to the Kingdom Hall & argue the opposite with them.

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