On Thursday, September 24, JWsurvey reproduced a Watchtower letter that had been leaked by a bethel insider. Dated October 4, 2015, the letter advised (or WILL advise) congregations of the announcements that are to be made at Saturday’s annual meeting.
The most dramatic announcement was arguably the scrapping of the much-loved Theocratic Ministry School in favor of a session of preaching presentations.
Another eyebrow-raiser was the news that magazine printing is being further reduced, with public editions of the Watchtower and Awake! to be printed once every two months from January onward.
Within 48 hours of the letter being leaked, this website received nearly 23,000 visits. Interest in the letter was substantial, and the contents were mulled over by the ex-Jehovah’s Witness community in various corners of social media.
Unsurprisingly, given the sensitive nature of the letter, some suggested it might be a hoax. I even briefly pondered myself whether I might be on the receiving end of an extremely elaborate prank designed to undermine this website’s credibility.
But any doubts as to the letter’s authenticity were put to bed today when JWsurvey’s webmaster, John Hoyle, received an email from our hosting company notifying us of an email from Watchtower’s legal department. Apparently, as was the case with the notorious October 1st 2012 child abuse letter, Watchtower’s lawyers consider the leaked letter copyrighted material, and have demanded it be taken down from our pages.
Our web hosting company, seeking to have the matter resolved quickly, advised us of two options: (1) to take the disputed material down, or (2) to issue a counter notification. Since the letter is now freely available elsewhere online, and our work in disseminating it is now effectively done, we have no interest in becoming embroiled in a legal scrap with Watchtower over whether the letter should be on our pages or not.
If anything I am grateful to Watchtower, and specifically its legal department, for once more shooting themselves in the foot so spectacularly. We had a similar situation only 9 months ago regarding Tony Morris and his tight pants fixation, and it seems lessons have not been learned.
By issuing a DMCA complaint, Watchtower has decisively claimed authorship of the letter. And by forcing us to take it down they have demonstrated that (1) they are embarrassed, and (2) they are completely clueless as to how the internet works. Once information is distributed on such a scale it cannot be undistributed.
The whole debacle is yet further proof that Watchtower, like any cult, is struggling to come to terms with the information age. The Governing Body and their men in suits assume the internet can be brought to heel, and that everyone who runs a JW-related website will play by their rules.
But even workers within bethel walls are starting to wake up and find their voice. With each fresh leak the Governing Body’s grip on power is slipping, and with each attempted cover-up there is further proof that this hapless organization is far from the worthy adversary many would assume.
For obvious reasons the letter in question is no longer available on these pages, but I am confident a copy can easily be traced with some persistent searching on Google. The Reddit Ex-JW community would also be a useful place to look.
Further reading…
- Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick
- Theocratic Ministry School GONE as 2015 Annual Meeting announcements leaked in advance
- More downsizing on the way? Multiple sources report bethel letter warning of further cuts
- Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh
- JWsurvey articles on Warwick
- JWsurvey articles on downsizing
Here’s the thing: Folks who cannot or WILL not live in the present will NEVER be happy. They will ALWAYS dream up some FUTURE Utopia where everything will be “perfect” (whatever that means). But I guarantee you, take them all and put them into that “Utopia” which they claim to crave so much, and they will STILL be dissatisfied and unfulfilled, fearful and insecure. Because it won’t be some future dreamworld any longer. It will be NOW. And people like that simply cannot live in the NOW.
It’s like those who pursue riches. When I’ve made my first million, I’ll be happy. And it happens, oh oh, still not happy. Why? Well, I just don’t have enough. What I really need is 10 million, then I’ll be happy! So I’ve got my 10 million, still not happy. Hmmmmm. Now I’ve got it!! All along, what I really needed to be happy was 1 billion $!!! And so on and on until they’re worm food. It was never a question of quantity, but rather of quality. Those folks can’t be happy because they’re not LIVING!!!
I mean, you’re either alive or you’re dead. There’s nothing in between.
People who refuse to live in the real world will always be walking around in a trance, daydreaming on rainbows and unicorns.
Awake,
Excellent comment, my sentiments exactly. The whole religion is setup on a future dream of non realities. Even the whole “imagine yourself in the new system” fantasy. I’m sure that some believe it will be a truman show type of world without any of the natural elements left just a big world-wide development planned suburb. Most of the witnesses I knew weren’t comfortable around nature & animals.
Come to think of it, I don’t recall many outdoorsy types in the borg.
Guess they’re more comfortable just looking at pictures.
Hello,
Letter always on the Web … I found it and Save it :)
And the better here, now I know it is not a hoax
Thanl MamaWatch Lawyers :)
The bully is losing his grip, must be so frustrating that the threats of death are becoming like water off a ducks back, it’s very liberating to no longer live in fear :-)
Of course Jesus’s words, who is their master, are not matter of copy write.
What are you trying to hide and control, YOUR religion?
Jake,
“BULLY” is the only word that you can describe the leadership of this religion. Once you lose that fear & guilt, it’s so liberating to tell them that they are in a cult when they try to save you from being destroyed & to be able to say it confidently without nerves when doing it.
My husband & I have had several ones with good intentions try different tactics like the usual, “miss you” text messages, visits just before the royal CO visit to hear the “encouraging talks” he will be giving or I have something for you as they go to pull out the “Return to Jehovah” brochure.
The thing that gets me riled up though is when they start lying when I hit them with questions. I have said to them several times, “I’m not a naive householder your talking to, I’ve been in this religion 20 years to know the inner workings of what goes on. So please don’t use double speak with me”.
That comment is usually after they have lied to me, otherwise if they truly want our friendship, we have told them that it is not going to be based on our religious beliefs. Anyway, no one seems to come back which suits us fine.
A relative gave me a copy of the “Return to Jehovah” brochure. I drew horns on the shepherd and fangs on the lamb and returned it to them. :)
@Awake… NICE ONE .. You impress me more & more with each comment!!
Oh what ARTISTRY could you Draw if you had a Picture of the 7 MENTAL MIDGETS??
Hahahhahhahaaaaaaaa!!!!!!
It never ceases to amaze me how adept the Watchtower corporation is at machine-gunning it’s own feet. They gain nothing with this move except grant further credibility to their opponent, in this case JW Survey, as a source of legitimate insider information.
It’s the latest in a long line of horribly counter productive moves in the media, in court, and in Royal Commissions, that showcase what happens when your leadership is drawn from a group of people who are by nature of their creed forbidden from raising or answering legitimate criticism, and from thinking critically.
Honestly, the governing body are like the anti-Machiavelli or something, with every move planned to be as stupid, as unsubtle and as counter-productive to their cause as possible…
I have redistributed the letter on a closed Fb group.
Lloyd you are a member
It’s also on JWN
Lol
Kate xx
Great work John, I would love to have been a fly on the wall at the GB emergency session after the poop hit the fan!
I can only imagine what your Italian ex-JW neighbors call a “caccia alle streghe” (“witch hunt”) ensued!!
@nemorino
Good point about the witch hunt.
As long as this website keeps publishing leaks the more observable is the Watchtowers totalitarian deluded attitude. For those at Bethel, please keep the information coming as it highlights this to other sincere witnesses (potentially life saving), but be aware a witch hunt will come. Such is the reaction of a wounded animal.
It boils my blood. .
No you can’t have fractions, yes you can
No you can’t have an organ donation, yes you can
The generation of 1914 won’t all die because in actual fact it’s two joined generations
No you can’t have an inoculation, yes you can
The superior authority’s are?, no their not
Oral sex a grounds for a scriptural divorce, yes, no.
Appointed over all the masters belongings, yes , no
How the bloody hell are you supposed to kept up with all these false teachings?, and the Watchtower has the audacity to call others false teachers and apostates, the hypocrisy is breath taking. I didn’t post this crap all around the world for years and then punish a person if they dared to disagree, outrageous and EVIL!
OH jake you are angry. I so agree with you. My dad used to say people will have their comeuppance.Great word isn’t it? That is what we are waiting for.The thing is God’s waiting room may get a little more crowded before long.Ithink what really convinces me now they told lies is that I can’t explain the doctrines anymore. Ican’t keep up with the flip flops.There is no scriptural backing to the wacky notions.More importantly I don’t want to defend lies, half truths (whatever that means), unscriptual belief.So like you I get angry too and impassioned about this sorry mess.This site is a beacon to the world that some of us did see it for what it was.rl
I’m not angry for me, just want the subterfuge to end.
@Jake . Excellent Summary of the LUDICROUS Ever Changing FLIP FLOPS of the GB of Brooklyn !!
Does anybody here think that there will be another GB body member who will jump ship like Ray Franz and expose more of the organizations dirty secrets??
It would be awesome if that did happen again. Remember, when Ray jumped ship there was no such thing as the internet and for the most part, we had to accept whatever bullsh*t ‘reasoning’ they gave us as to why he got The Axe. I remember being told that, like Judas, Ray had “allowed a place for Satan” into his heart, etc. etc.
Of course, had it happened today, the fallout would have been a million times worse than what they experienced in the early 1980s. All anyone would have to do is to Google “Ray Franz” and boom—it would be there for you to view in your own home.
If another member of the GB jumped ship now and did a ‘tell-all’, the fallout would be astronomical.
It’s only a matter of time when something like that happens. If Ray was alive today he would see his words proving true. This organization can never be wrong because of their self righteous arrogant attitude that is now catching up to them. CULT CULT CULT.
The more the Borg tell people not to look at internet sites the more ‘thinking’ people will. You tell a child not to do something and they will push the bounds. The more the Borg say ‘no’ the more the minions, hopefully, will say ‘why not?’ Of course there will always be those who do exactly what they are told ‘those faithful in the little things’… we cannot beat these ones into submission, nor do we want to. We have to spoon feed them a little unadulterated milk at a time… Yes I guess we can turn what we learned to our advantage. I can think of an elder and his wife who will hang on by the skin of their teeth until the GB sprout wings, a forked tail and turn red before they will say ‘well MAYBE we got it wrong’. For most of us we don’t want to turn away from our faith in God just from the deceit from the GB. I’ve said it before. I will never be part of any religious organisation again. My prayers are free and between me and Jehovah and through his son. If I meet him on judgement day and I have gotten it wrong then I can innocently say ‘these men you gave me deceived me by their cruelty’. Because that is how I view them. It’s not what the Bible says it’s their interpretation of it and how they have twisted it all. Lloyd has exposed them and judging by all the other sites I have taken a peek into, the word is out there and the can not do a thing about it. I wouldn’t put it past them to delay the reading of the letter just to try and say ‘we’ had made it all up’.
“Does anybody here think that there will be another GB body member who will jump ship like Ray Franz and expose more of the organizations dirty secrets??”
Moreover, Franz didn’t have the internet to leak his info in real time, so perhaps his departure was seen as ‘containable’ by the leaders of that time. Nowadays, however, If a GB member, or another leader/s were to defect from the Org, armed with damning information, available to the masses at the click of a mouse, I wonder if we would start seeing some Mafia type ‘hits’ against the whistleblowers. Anyone think they’d be capable of such a thing? Would they spin it internally, as a form of ‘theocratic warfare against Jehovah’s enemies?’ Makes ya wonder.
I don’t wonder. I’m sure they are capable of such actions. Sociopaths and Narcissists have a way of coming up with justifications for ANYTHING!!!
I’m not saying it WILL happen. I’m just saying it’s well within the realm of possibility.
Son of God
Son of Adam
Son of Seth (etc)
Son of David
Son of Solomon (etc)
Son of Joseph
Chirst.
All one generation as each generation overlaps another. . . It’s a biblical teaching, you wouldn’t understand. . . Just believe.
Hi Jake,
Here’s an overlapping generation for two extremely important dates…creation of man and the flood. Methuselah overlapped with Adam and Noah. That’s about a 1600 year overlapping. So let’s see, from1914, we must have about 1500 more years to go, haha.
Items to discuss at the next GB meeting…..
1. Bethelites to sign an official WT secrets clause.
2. Copyright everything that is or has ever been thought, said, written, emailed, or conveyed in any way on WT property.
@pearlsB4swine .I think you could be nearer to the TRUTH than you think !!… That is Exactly what I think will happen .. Bethelites signing an OFFICIAL SECRETS CLAUSE.. Then they can be SUED if they open their mouths!!
Yes and then much like Sylvester Stallone in Rocky five when the promoter said “touch me and I’ll Sue” Rocky socks him and then says “Sue me for what?!”.
The poor broke bethelite then leaves bethel after leaving Tony Morris laid out on the floor. The end.
@Chiafade.. That would be a LOVELY SENSE of JUSTICE… Tony Morris Knocked FLAT OUT on his FACE!!!
Hahahahaha. You guys all have a vivid imagination!
Its a good thing that we can laugh through all the hurt we’ve suffered.
@McFan: Yes… I do think there are some who will stand up for what is right. And now, as in Ray’s time, is the right time.
Ray had his supporters. He also made some very courageous, yet controversial decisions.
I find it hard to accept that all 7 are “Mental Midgets” looking for hard graft at Micky D’s.
There again, I could equally be… wrong!
@Gem … GOOD FIRST Part of your comment…. BUT I HATE to DISAPPOINT YOU ….. YES !!!ALL 7 are DEFINITELY ….. ‘MENTAL MIDGETS!!!! Maybe I will grant you They don’t need to work at Micky D ? …Judging by the Way they dress & Property & shares they have accumulated,They Probably OWN 99% of MacDonalds Shares!! I like your SENSE of HUMOUR!!
Oh no! If the 7 MM’s own 99% of McD’s, they’ll probably run it into the ground as well…Damn, and I love their mango frostees. :(
Streisand Effect. Look it up, watchtower, because you still haven’t figured it out.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
What a gift from the WTSoc. So glad the GB confirmed for us so quickly that the leak wasn’t a hoax. What a positive development in keeping the spotlight on this so-called charity’s repressive and cruel policies.
Here’s a thought, maybe there’s a rogue group of Lawyers that have convinced them to send the letter so that the rumour can be verified. The paranoia would be through the roof!
Next GB meeting will be: “we can’t even trust our own bloody lawyers now”.
Part of my family left in the 80’s. They were bethelites and said they couldn’t discuss what they saw. I was to far into the borg to believe them, however I refused to shun them. That got me locked in a low lit room with a district overseer…still I believed in this crazy cult. I am so stupid and have wasted 51 years of my lift doing this…..I’m determined to rescue the rest of my family. Thank you Lloyd for everything you do. My donations have been redirected to your efforts!
John Cedars, I recommend you not host any of Watchtower’s copyright material on your site. Instead, have it backed up locally and place it on other sites and link to it from within your own site. That way, the Watchtower’s legal department cannot request your web hosting company to remove the copyright material since the copyright material is not on their servers. So, if you wanted, you could upload the letter again, this time to another location such as dropbox, google drive etc and link to it.
@Tom . Cautious as Serpents!! Good idea Tom!! Let’s all play Theocratic Warfare & BEAT the GB at their OWN GAME!!
Tom Durbridge: Thank you for the suggestion, however, that is not quite accurate. If a document or photo visually appears on your website, even if it is sourced from another site, you are still subject to takedown action. What you can do is provide a link to a photo or document appearing on another site (as you would typically do for a news article in the New York Times). What you can do is quote freely from a document as long as you annotate heavily and do not over quote. It’s kind of like the old example I learned in journalism: You can write and say that “Mr. X was caught with his pants down in a public restroom” (if it’s true) but you can not publish a photo of him with his pants down – unless YOU took the photo. That leads to the obvious question: why would you be in a public restroom with your camera? So while Cedars could quote freely from a document he received, technically he could not show that document unless he had permission to do so. The problem then becomes one of credibility – which is a common defense whenever a blogger like Cedars gets “insider information” but nothing physical to confirm that information. It’s a very thin tightrope we all have to walk.
@Juan Viejo: That’s exactly what I am saying to do – simply link to it, quote from it as you like, but don’t have / present the content on one’s site. :-D
Right on, Tom!
Here is a little story for you, I was a ministerial servant at the age of 16, (back when they allowed that), then the years passed quickly to 1980, I was 28 years old. My wife and I decided not to have children, so we made the decision for me to go under the knife, (I love my wife by the way). I made the mistake of telling a lifetime friend, who was an elder, what I had done. I never dreamed that he would tell the body of elders. Pretty soon meeting parts stopped, no one said a word to me, including the one I considered a friend. When I asked them why they said we need to meet with you, once again no one told me why. When the meeting finally happened, the told me that they wrote the ” powers that be” and they recommended that I be removed as a servant. Then I received a letter from headquarters telling me, or should I say chastising me for the decision my wife and I made together. They said I did not have appreciation for the gift of life. The letter further mentioned what if the power of procreation were never returned to you in the future? Not a very good time in my life. Looking back I should have left then! And I ask you, now what is their stance on birth control? None of us wants to be told what very personal decisions we can make in our lives. Here again in my life was an example of FIG, Fear, Intimidation, Guilt. Sad, very sad.
The GB has become just like the religions they used to make fun of or even condemn. In this case they poke at the Vatican for not allowing contraception, and yet they do the same thing, just their own version of it (the one you mentioned).
Not to mention their hypocrisy. I remember a sister who told me about some “landmark” convention talk (I think in the 80s) where they basically said, Don’t have kids the end is too near. Now they are relying on Witness kids for memberships growth. Too bad for them the kids are leaving in leaps and bounds.
The other point of hypocrisy: apparently the WT lawyers (who are volunteer Witnesses at the legal department in Patterson) are apparently excempt from the whole “don’t look at apostate websites”.
I dated a sister who went to the condemned higher education ivy league for law. Somewhere during that time she was df’d for other reasons. At one point she thought “maybe I should quit school.” So she called Bethel and asked their opinion, saying she had wanted to be a Bethel lawyer (remember the official stance has always been “Don’t go to college to get skills for Bethel, you can learn everything you need when you get here.”) They said “No! Don’t quit college we need lawyers at Bethel!” They are as 2-faced as Harvey Dent lol.
@A PatientMan .. I REALLY found your Comments Very Sad as like many here are Really Decent people who wanted to BELIEVE SO MUCH that this was the Organisation that JEHOVAH was Using & we all MANY TIMES Gave the Governing Body the Benefit of the Doubt ….NO LONGER WILL WE BE FOOLED,CONTROLLED & MANIPULATED by this GROUP …..of ‘THE SEVEN PYGMIES of BROOKLYN ‘ !!! … May STEPHEN LETTS HEAD .. ‘BLOW UP’ & May TONY MORRIS be STRANGLED by His TIGHT PANTS!!…. WOW !! That would be a Sight for SORE EYES…!! May Jehovah Show them Mercy & They SUFFER SLOWLY . .. Have a NICE DAY.. I do Love these AMERICAN SLOGANS…. Such Class!!
Oh God! damned if you do, damned if you don’t. It was between you and your lovely lady .I’m convinced now ALL the horror stories have to be exposed so there will be no excuse. Anyone who in the sage words of Wallace who are still “prevaricating around the bush”will just be plain stupid. blessings to you both patient man rl
To Patient man: That story shows how hypocritical they are bc for decades up decades the WT was discouraging even having children. I was baptized in the early 70’s and then got married in mid 70’s and I remember quite well that when my wife got pregnant many were raising eyebrows bc of the scriptural Counsel,”Woe to the Pregnant woman in those days!”
Even back then I was flabbergasted that the Wt had that much control over people to even bring up the Idea of who can and should have children. That Idea faded as the years went by but it was still strong in the 70’s just like if someone bought a House back then in my congregation the JW’s would all whisper, “Oh he has no faith in the New system” look at him buying a home and obligating himself for 30 years on a loan! Why would he do that if he REALLY believed the END is SO Near?
There was a elderly sister back then who died in 1989 at the age of 90 and in the 1980’s she was telling us stories of how she would pioneer in the 1930’s in the Mountains of Northern California for months peddling Rutherford’s publications, sleeping in barns, trading WT books for eggs and food and living out of a old car like a Gypsy. The incredible story is that she did all this and left her small child with family so she could pioneer before the end came. All with the blessing and encouragement of the WT of those days. They are full of double standards and hypocrisy. they know it and we know it.
“Watchtower’s lawyers consider the leaked letter copyrighted material”….wow! They got us to accept they definetely are a Business player. So why they still hold the tax-exempt status? Because they’re a tool in the hands of the US State Department throught USAID?
(Look at the USAID’s “Violence Prevention Programme”, highlighted even by JW.ORG: see http://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/guatemala/youth-violence-in-schools).
In compliance with this USAID-funded program the WBTS works alongside the Canadian State-based jesuite CECI in Guatemala: see http://www.ceci.ca/en/where-we-work/americas/guatemala/projects/violence-prevention/).
By withstanding the WBTS you are not withstanding a church; this is not a theological dispute; You are withstanding a political force!
Remember this!
Reclaim the political right to free speak against the Watchtower mobs threats! Don’t let your minds be trapped within a religious cube while confronting these matters. This corporation is playing a political role!
Baccolo
Just a little heads up for those who don’t go to meetings anymore. The 3 talk in the school for wk starting the 5th is ‘To whom does the term ‘Antichrist’ refer.
Thought that was kind of funny considering the leaked letter, the announcement to come on the Sunday prior to it etc. I also noticed that the glossary for the info refers to it as representing those who oppose Christ and or his disciples.
Off to work now :)
@ Tara .. The Answer to who is the ANTICHRIST??
SIMPLE PIMPLE…. Like ‘The SLAVE CLASS’ as described by the Watchtower & in GREEK it is in The PLURAL …. Which Means the ANTI- CHRIST IS: …. Wait For It….., the MOTHER & FATHER of STEPHEN LETTS !!! I Told you it was SIMPLE . Tara.. GONE to WORKkkk!!! You Don’t know what you are MISSING??
Lol I love this site…. slaps self across side of face… why didn’t I think of that. duh! slap slap slap. Yeah sunny warm day in Canada and I get to work. sucks to be me.
Can you feel the love of the brotherhood? Its awe inspiring.
Wasn’t sure if my first post went thru…I’m brand new at this…long time follower though.
Just saw a interesting parallel between Pope Leo X Building project remodel of st. Peter’s and Warwick. ..one fueled the reformation and the other….I have done a multi month tour of duty at the site, basically they build everything once for practice, tear it down, start over and build it again, so it’s easy to see why it is way over budget.
Back to topic though, if they dumb the meetings down any further (which the leaks indicate is the plan)…then it’s probably a good thing that they recently said we could drink ancholic beverages BEFORE we go.
P.s.. can I count service time for this?
Oh count as much time as you like sweetie :) Wow. so I hope they recycle all that timber!
Good, I’ll count it in 15 minute increments but the service committee will have to approve.
@JwPow .. SMOOTH ANSWER .. I answered in the Watchtower on the Alcoholic Beverages before Meetings which is now allowed. I said … Perhaps the ELDERs should have a meeting so they can DISCUSS what ALCOHOL we can drink % Proof Wise!! Got a Few Giggles!!
Pickled Brain, I know you are also UK-based like myself. I’m really interested in this new ‘advice’ (really increased-control-edict) from the WTSoc re permitting an alcoholic drink before meetings. Can you ref it for me, please, so I can look it up? It’s just something that I think would be fruitful to bring up with some of our family members as a point of discussion. I loved your subversive query about ‘perhaps now the elders can let us know what percentage of alcohol we can sup’ in that meeting! I bet you’re a source of some comfort to some in your congregation, with your sane ‘hang on, is we ain’t or is we adults?’ ripostes!
@Everyday Explorer.. Thank you for your Kind Remarks .. The Watchtower NOW ALLOWING US to DRINK ALCOHOL Before MEETINGS& FIELD SERVICE is 15th November 2014 Study Edition& the Page is 20 & the Paragraph is 18!! Have a good read on the ‘NEW LIGHT’ !!
Thank you! Look forward to arming myself with that — us worldly ‘goats’ haven’t heard a word about it! :)
are we talking Nov. 15, 2014 mag. or study article nov. 15 2014?
Pickled Brain.
Your right about the smarties, they’re ok but don’t eat the red ones,
don’t even give em to your dog. And if there’s blood in that tin of pet
food he can’t have that either, and what about those headaches
and bad stomachs you keep getting? It’s those aluminium pans,
get rid of em, they result in almost as many problems as syphilis…
These are some of GOD’s directions, via the Watchtower.
Paranoia sets in when you become a JW, it’s like walking in a
minefield, constantly looking for the traps that Satan has set for
you. Your suspicious of all those worldly people who are under
Satan’s control. You need JHVHs org, to guide you through the
minefield. Did I really get conned with all that pig swill ? ( hog
wash ) . It must have been someone else!
Thanks for your knowledgable and perceptive comments PB,
and everyone, and to Lloyd & Co, the articles get more riveting
all the time. I’m on the edge of my seat here.
@Ted . Well I regard it quite an honour to be commended by you Ted… I believe you said you were 84 so with your vast Knowledge of The Then as we Believed it TRUTH I always Read your comments carefully as it is from Genuine Knowledge of what you have been through & witnessed like many here on this website.
I think CLAYTON WOODWORTH who was Editor of the Golden Age prior to the AWAKE came up with the Ridiculous assumptions of the Dangers of aluminium Saucepans & the Wonders of the E.R.A. Machine which was Farcical.. BUT the Way we Analysed Everything we ATE .. Like RED SMARTIES because of Beetles Blood which might have been a DREADED ‘FRACTION’or BOUGHT a Pair of Jeans from a Charity Shop which might have been worn by a Spiritualist?? .. WELCOME to the CRAZY CRAZY WORLD of the GOVERNING BOTTY??
They should start sending letters by Snapchat
What do mean, they invented disappearing corspondence, it’s called a b.o.e. letter. Please destroy all previous letters…this will self destruct in 15 seconds. .and we will disavow any knowledge of it.
This is so funny. They have pretend lawyers, pretend policemen, and a pretend channel to God. Who wouldn’t want to live in their world of make believe? Glad to see they’re following you Lloyd, as you figured they were. Maybe you’ll be able to get through to those 7 thick headed old geezers in NY someday.
Cedars, You should issue a counter-notification. If you take this letter down it will embolden the Watchtower to issue similar complaints in the future.
Village idiot
I agree… Don’t give in..’fight the worthless
F-ers’
The world that the gb and bethelites live in is very very institutional and insular – and their fort is protected by the lawyers and accountants, who think for them and pull all the strings.
But little did they realize that the protectors of the fort were not protecting the bethelites (inmates), but really were only protecting the gb and the vast fortune that the fort had accumulated and most importantly protecting their own livelihood.
I know it was mentioned earlier but it is so true that once they are released from the institution – or given the pink slip, so to speak – it is very hard for them to integrate into a normal environment and many just cannot cope.
Being let go from bethel is probably a shock to their system and will catapult these individuals into a world that they are not ready to tackle. Rank and file can maybe try to help these ones but only to a certain extent. Some will accept and some will cope some will be angry, some will revolt and some may just fade away.
I only have one active JW that I am able to talk to about my feelings about the Org. It pains me to see the gymnastics he will engage in to continue to believe that the Org is divinely endorsed. When I told him about all of the things happening in the Org right now (branch closings, Bethelites set to be displaced by the thousands, special pioneers defunded, building projects canceled), he said “Well, the pla-“, and in that instant, I knew he was about to tell me that the first few plagues affected the Israelites too (meaning that these things only show how close we are to the end). And he did go on to say that. And although I was not surprised, it still made me sad.
Well maybe he got the WHOLE word “plague”out. I’m just saying I’ve had these conversations with him so many times, his answers have become predictable. Maybe because I was able to blurt out horribly flawed rationalizations myself when I was neck-deep in the cult, for most of my life. God my comments are dumb. Sorry folks.
If I hear one more comment about keeping up with that chariot i’m gonna to push them under it. Yeesh WHY CAN’T THEY WAKE UP!
Lol, thanks I needed that laugh, Tara :D
@Tara.. I HEAR that ONE WHEEL has DROPPED OFF the CHARIOT!!!
Tony’ll fix it
News flash ..just in from undercover Brooklyn reporter…Warwick will get a name change, Beth-Sarim 2,, also to be referred to as BS2. Be careful B.S.2 is now copyrighted
Beth-Sarim 2 or Beth Sham?
pearls befores wine:
Maybe they should call it Beth-Serum instead? As in “TRUTH Serum”.Lol
What next microfilm, coded letters?
All very silly and totally arrogant of them.
Or, they indeed have much to hide, and their paranoia is justified.
PearlsB4Swine. The NEXT 007 Will Be ..,, VIETNAM MORRIS the THIRD!!… I heard it from The ‘OAK ‘ Website …. Oops I meant ‘CEDARS’ … Getting My TREES MIXED UP??? Anyone who is 60 will understand .
I believe he turned down the role — the pants were too tight.
@Awake … Very Good Answer .. I Really Like your sense of Humour!! Are you from ‘GOOD OLD BLIGHTY ‘by any chance ?? If you are American it must be in your GENES because Practically Everyone in Good Old USA originates from us COLONIAL BRITS!!
Can the governing body appreciate why so many people visit this site, because they apostates and liars?, no, because their looking for the answers, their looking for reasonable argumentation and a listening ear. What do the GB offer, hell fire and brim stone, paranoia, fear and an unyielding authority, of all the mistakes the Watchtower has made this has to be the worst, the arrogance and the Instilling of fear and position. Having studied the Watchtowers literature for 30 years and having considered the good with the bad, I think its time it apologised for the hurt it has caused and show in a meaningful and genuine way that it cares for people, I believe it should be more open, honest and willing to address concerns and criticisms.
Is it any wonder the money is drying up and the growth rates stagnate?
Faith on tracks, prescribed, judged, controlled, directed and ultimately pointless.
Sorry, to comment up a strom, you know I’ve been in talking to myself, outta self-preservation for too long. But, here’s a question that if any knows the history of it I would love to hear it. The main drive thru Warrick is Kings drive..when and who came up with that name?
@Jwpow . KINGs DRIVE. Warwick…, who came up with that Name??…… Ermm … KING ANTHONY MORRIS … PROBABLY ??
One more question, and a little off topic.
Can anyone verify the story of the university professor in the latest video. I mean this guy was trained to be a priest then bounced all over the place religiously specking. Then finds jws, but what blow my mind was, it wasn’t hell fire or neutrality or something like that. …it was our handling of pedfiles and transparency of leadership. Really????
That video was EXTREMELY suspect and timed to purposely counter all of their bad publicity. Propaganda at Its best. Instead of apologizing for the mishandling and revictimizing of child abuse sufferers they follow cult policy 101. Deny any wrongdoing and continue to brainwash followers.
What I say to JWs who try to defend the gb and their stubbornness is this: The pope just recently apologizeed for the mishandling of child abuse. When is the gb going to apologize? I’m met with DEAD silience. The most recent response I got was “well the pope didn’t really apologize”. (Rolls eyes bangs head on desk)
@Chiafade. When those JWs say the POPE didn’t Really mean it when he APOLOGISED for CHILD ABUSE I will say to those JWs at LEAST he DAMNED WELL Said He Was SORRY for the Child Abuse within his Rsnks! SO the Minimum the Governing Body could do would be TO APOLOGISE !! But I Understand how you feel when you Ssid YOU ROLLED YOUR HEAD & BANGED YOUR EYES on the DESK!!!
@JwPow .. The HYPOCRISY of the GB knows no bounds . I mentioned that 5 minute 20 second video on TV.JW.Org on a previous post , ,,, I Really don’t know how the GB have the Nerve after they have been found GUILTY of Protecting CHILD ABUSERS by the Royal Commission in Australia !!
I knew someone who once met and spent a little time with a current member of the GB (the name is irrelevant). They said this individual was, in person, quite cold, aloof, even arrogant. One word they used particularly stands out: “businesslike”.
Go figure.
Brilliant! JUST Fabulous!! Watchtower has shot itself in the foot yet again! VERIFYING the letter is genuine! See how closely they follow jwsurvey!! Of COURSE I copied the letter and SAVED it, the better to SHARE It with EVERYONE! These posts of yours are being shared with the facebook groups, Thousands have seen it! Good work!! Keep up the good work! And now you know that any message you give to the governing body WILL be heard by watchtower as they apparently follow your posts!!
It is rather shocking that someone (or group) would be stupid enough to repeatedly ‘shoot themselves in the foot’. Then again, maybe not THAT shocking. To quote a line from my all-time favorite vampire film, “Blade” (the ORIGINAL, 1998): “When you understand the nature of a thing, you know what that thing is capable of.”
I was just thinking of all the parents who will say..
“Oh, #*)@, they just extended the midweek meeting
another 10 minutes, and with Brothers ‘Big Wind’ & ‘Long Tom’ always making their 10 minute parts 20 minutes, we’re looking at 2 grueling hours” : ( Guess that answers whether we’ll have to ‘bail’ after the first hour so Caleb and Sophia can make it to school tomorrow. Follow the yellow brick road….
Can any one enlighten me on the relationship between the President of the WTS and Board members, who are heading up the Corporations and the GB? It is known that the GB separated itself legally from the Board for their personal protection to prevent being sued. There is also 500(?) shareholders with voting rights etc. What happens if one group thinks the other has gone astray? Who makes all the Corporate decisions? Do the Board of Directors and the GB agree on all things? If the BoD thinks the GB is out of control could there be a Corporate coup d’etat?
Basically, the corporation is a pupet, your local k.h. is a also probably a corp. (In us.) But, has no real power. Even in regards there own hall. The wt.has layers and layers of cooperations, ultimately the buck stops at G.B. Even if a group of nethium attempted a hostile takeover (highly unlikely to even get off ground w/o being ratted out.) What would they get?
Wisely, Rutherford plugged that hole after he used it.
Kinda of like when luke skywalker finished off the death star with a shot down ventilation tube, The new and improved star “fixes that”
My sister’s son lives in Bethel. He said he and his room mate watched an old movie The Island. This movie is about clones who live in a city and when people get sent to an island they are never seen again. Later in the movie it turns out they are killed. My sister’s son says people at Bethel feel like they are being sent to the island because they know they are being sent home. He has no skills. My sister also has a son-in-law. Her son-in-law was disfellowshipped a year ago. This is the third time he’s been disfellowshipped. He is bi-polar. He told the elders he needs to return to rehab. They disfellowshipped him. They tell him disfellowshipping isn’t a revolving door so they wont reinstate him. My sister said she isn’t having anything to do with him. It is an unloving, haughty religion.
Sat through a boring meeting tonight but the highlight was an announcement that ‘A letter will be read and a video will be shown on Sunday.’ Totally worth the boredom because I could barely hold in a laugh. I sat next to my daughter and showed her all of Lloyds postings… could see her eyes widen as she scrolled down on my iphone. Her first question out of the door was ‘So in effect we could loose the hall if they need money’.
I also noticed how many times they mention that we have to be in subjection to the FDS even if we don’t understand what is happening because the light is so bright now and the chariot….. I did not throw the speaker under it… there were witnesses (did you see what I did there eh, eh) is speeding up.
Give me strength to get Sunday out of the way…. oh and two elders want to ‘swing by and see how I am doing’ – just great.
@ Tara .. Same letter read out at our meeting.. I have said to certain ones .. Wouldn’t it be a SURPRISE if they ABOLISHED the Theocratic Ministry School!! .. Brothers were saying to me … ‘DONT be SO RIDICULOUS !!!… Hmmm .. Maybe come Sunday these brothers will think I AM the NEW …FAITHFUL & DISCREET SLAVE?? .. Imagine that .. NEW LIGHT!! Hallelujah.. PICKLED BRAIN is the ‘F&D SLAVE!! ..Well WHY NOT ?? I Reckon I couldn’t make a bigger MESS of interpretation of Scriptures than the 7 MIDGETS of BROOKLYN !! PRAISE BE PICKLE??
Or they may take you out into the parking lot and stone you as a witch! I’d let a pet MS in on it and was waiting to give him the wink ut he never turned round. I gave him the ‘told you so’ at the end of the meeting but he said it will be so exciting and what a shame someone was spoiling the news for us… bit like posting the new releases on fb.
This is like wading through mud with a loaded gun carriage strapped to your ankle…. WAKE UP PEOPLE
@Tara … NOW!! Don’t give them ideas Tara…. Then they can SHOUT… ‘The WITCH is DEAD… The WITCH is DEAD!!’
But think of all those little munchkins in the Emerald City by their Tracy Island lake.. Tony in his ruby slippers and tight pants… no on second thoughts, I’m eating my brekkie and that makes me feel sick :(
Tara and PB, you guys are KILLING ME! And yes, “ALL HAIL PICKLE”! Pickle’s the new CHOSEN ONE, and he don’t give a damn ’bout no remote controlled lake. But he IS bringing back sacrifices. Don’t worry, though– only, ehh, SEVEN will be required to satisfy him…
C Controlling
U Unreasonable, Uncompromising
L Lie-based
T Tricks & Traps — psychological, intellectual, emotional
@Gustas .you are SO RIGHT that you can practically sell anything if you package it right !! Look at the Sugary,Fatty,Salty RUBBISH that Ronald MACDONALDS serves up getting CHILDREN ADDICTED to HEART ATTACK & DIABETIC LADEN FOOD …. Another AMERICAN KILLING MACHINE ???
@Pickled Brain: What are you saying Pickled?
Do you want the seven mental midgets to switch to Burger King? (much better quality in my book)…or,
continue to add a final cholesterol laden layer of burger and cheese and just sit back and wait for a massive heart attack?
Americans may criticize we Brits for poor culinary skills (not so true any more btw!) but by God the Yankees ought to look at their guts and arses in the mirror! :)
@Gem .. Too True we are CULINARY EXPERTS NOW … We have MARY BERRY?? & PAUL Whathisname??