“Treat your disfellowshipped loved ones as though they have been slain by Jehovah, and don’t mourn them!”

Watchtower is piling on the misery for disfellowshipped ones with its latest propaganda
Watchtower is piling on the misery for disfellowshipped ones with its latest propaganda

In what should surely rank among some of the most grotesque propaganda ever to be churned out by Watchtower’s writing department, Jehovah’s Witnesses are being asked to think of their disfellowshipped family members, not just as being dead, but as having been killed by Jehovah. As such they are not to be mourned.

“What a test of faith it was for Aaron and his family not to mourn their dead relatives!” says the latest November 15th Watchtower magazine on page 14, describing the slaughter of Aaron’s sons Nadab and Abihu through fire from heaven. “Are you personally proving yourself holy with regard to not associating with family members or others who have been disfellowshipped?”

The bizarre connection with Nadab and Abihu follows on from a similar article in 2011 in which the biblical account was invoked to guilt-trip Witness parents into avoiding “unnecessary association” with any disfellowshipped son or daughter.

“Think of how [Aaron] must have felt when his sons Nadab and Abihu offered illegitimate fire to Jehovah and He struck them dead. Of course, that ended any association those men could have had with their parents… The message is clear. Our love for Jehovah must be stronger than our love for unfaithful family members.” (w11 7/15 p.32)

It should go without saying that in order to invoke the direct slaughter of miscreants by God in justifying the total shunning of any who leave a religion, you first need to provide unequivocal proof that the religion in question is solely endorsed by God – a claim that virtually all religions make.

Watchtower has yet to write anything that comes close to offering tangible evidence of divine backing. It merely asks Witnesses to believe that Jesus made an invisible sojourn to Earth between 1914 and 1919, and used this period to ‘cleanse’ and select an organization he is apparently still ‘cleansing’ to this day – the Watch Tower Society.

The total vacuum of evidence to support Watchtower’s claims of divine direction make any attempted parallels with bible accounts of divine execution and excommunication both absurd and obscene.

If only Watchtower could rediscover some of the logic and reasonableness that led it to conclude in a 1947 Awake! article that the practice of disfellowshipping (or “excommunication”) is an instrument of “ecclesiastical power and secular tyranny” that is “altogether foreign to biblical teachings.”

The 1947 article can be downloaded on these links: Page 1 | Page 2

Instead, Witnesses are bombarded with manipulative dogma (centered around a flawed understanding of 1 Cor. 5:11) aimed at dismantling families for the sake of Watchtower’s interests. Even the sending of emails to disfellowshipped ones is prohibited according to another recent magazine.

“Do not look for excuses to associate with a disfellowshipped family member, for example, through e-mail.” (w13 1/15 p.16 par. 19)

Though it may be easy for Watchtower’s cloistered Governing Body and its army of writers to spew forth this outrageous material, the effects on ordinary people who simply want to leave a religion they have discovered to be false are all too tangible, as this question in our latest 2014 Global Survey shows.

shunning pollAs reassuring as it is that 23% of disfellowshipped/disassociated ones answering the above question say they are NOT shunned by family members, that number is not likely to rise given the steady stream of coercion flowing from Brooklyn.

I personally believe there will come a time when all religious organizations who seek tax exempt or charitable status will be answerable to Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which recognizes an individual’s innate right to “change his religion or belief.”

But as Watchtower presses forward with its efforts to deprive people of this basic right through its immoral shunning policies with an almost sadistic fervor, such a time cannot come soon enough.

 

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Further reading…

272 thoughts on ““Treat your disfellowshipped loved ones as though they have been slain by Jehovah, and don’t mourn them!”

  • September 2, 2014 at 2:39 pm
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    @ Epiphany and Pure Strong:

    Is there anything of the JW beliefs that you do believe in or you hold nothing as true from the JW religion? I for one am a JW and hold as true most of the beliefs. The fact that I am on this website would lead some to believe that I have doubts. I do not. Truth is I should not be on this site but that is my choice and it is where I may differ with the GB. I also disagree with the GB on the pedophile issue. The GB should just turn over all those data files to the police ASAP.

    Besides that there may be some very minor issues which I disagree with but I do accept all other teachings as Bible based and as The Truth. I refer to the JW religion as do the majority of the friends as The Truth. As I have stated here other times the abstention from military service, non-involvement in the political spheres, the denial of all festivals and holidays such as Christmas, birthdays, New Years, Halloween, Easter, etc, etc are to me Bible based and what constitutes primitive Xtianity.

    How about you two??

    • September 2, 2014 at 3:08 pm
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      JW4Ever, if I may ask, why do you care what they think? Why don’t you try to comment at a meeting about that policy change that you’re convinced is necessary? Or talk about with your fellow brothers and sisters? Odds one will tell the elders, and you will get a little visit about “causing division”… Or comment about that everyone should be able to read and comment on any website (another conviction of yours). Now if you won’t speak up in the meetings: are those children not worth changing the policy for? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to be mean, but you simply can’t have it both ways.

    • September 2, 2014 at 5:07 pm
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      Jw4Ever, as a liberated apostate of diseased mind having lost my wife, children and home due to inhumane watchtower policy which to any rational mind is barbaric. Watchtower is the anti thesis of the definition of the “truth”.I do not put the blame on ordinary Jws the Brooklyn Dodgers are the dictators. You should be aware that watchtower was an NGO with the UN for ten years or so and is still politically involved! Then you have child rape, deaths by neglect (blood) false prophecies ( 1914, 1918, 1919, 1925,1975, 607BCE) shunning and lying. So There is no redeeming feature in this high control sinister cult.

      Jerry.

    • September 3, 2014 at 4:30 am
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      Jw 4 Ever. You continue to assert that JW TRUTH is true, yet you have failed to answer any questions.

      You have failed to give evidence to substantiate the Gov. Bod’s claim that they are the ‘Faithful and Discreet Slave’ as referred to by Jesus at Matthew 24. On this claim the entire authority of the Watchtower hangs.

      You have failed to give evidence that Jesus, after his invisible return in 1914, appointed, in 1918, the Bible Students as his sole earthly organisation.

      You have failed to demonstrate why, if Jesus did appoiunt the Watchtower Soc. as sole purveyors of God’s TRUTH, he appointed an outfit that celebrated Christmas, had no problems with blood transfusion, had changed its mind about the rapture, used the crucifix as a symbol and had only recently abandoned Pyramidology.

      Your conributions to this site, however, are great. They do a great service in the undermining of that misery making money grabbing mind control cult of the jehovah’s Witnesses.

      You are a shining example of the tragic state of mind needed to continue to believe that JW TRUTH is true and that this exploitative property and publishing corporation is truly God’s exclusive earthly organisation.

      Please keep posting, JW 4 Ever. Anyone curious about the mindset of a professed believing JW will see in you, a tragic case. Someone who continues to assert that his cult is THE TRUTH, yet can never answer a single question in order to back up that ridiculous assertion.

      Of course you have no doubts that Abraham, Isaac and co. will be resurrected in San Diego in 1925. Of course the JWs had every right to affiliate to the WHore of Babylon (the UN) until they were bubbled by the Guardian. Of course Armageddon occurred in 1975 or at any rate before the death of the 1914 generation. Of course there is no hypocrisy in permitting the transfusion of blood fractions while condemning to Armageddon execution any donor of blood, the sole source of such fractions.

      Keep up the good work JW4Ever! You are a great help, with your total failure to answer any questions, in bringing down the Watchtower! We salute you!

  • September 2, 2014 at 7:58 pm
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    Jerry, good to have you back.
    JW4ever- for nearly 70 yrs the WT taught that the GB (from 1944 loosely applied to the WT’s board of directors before establishing an actual GB in 1971) represented the F&DS (all anointed ones on earth). From 2013 (July 15th WT mag), the GB is the F&DS. You speak of ‘truth’. Which one of these is ‘truth’? Why did it take them nearly 70 years to figure out their own identity?
    Funny, I thought Jesus appoints the slave, not the slave itself.

  • September 3, 2014 at 3:45 am
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    JW4EVER, don’t you remember ever hearing the illustration about the glass of water with just a little bit of manure in it? Would you drink it? Why shouldn’t that apply to the Watchtower as well?

    I don’t care who you talk to in the organization, they will never believe that the Society would tell even one lie to us and yet we can prove they lie over and over again, not once or twice but all the time.

    How can you think it’s disgusting to drink a cup of water with just a little bit of manure in it, when the cup of water from the Watchtower is full of manure with just a little bit of water in it?

    It took me some months to see just how deliberate the lies were, was so hang in there. It’s actually quite “freeing” when it finally dawns on you that the Watchtower has absolutely no hold on you and no, those people out in the “world” aren’t going to die after all if you don’t get out there and convert them.

    It wasn’t easy for any of us to realize how we were being made fools of either. I had to be hit over the head with a baseball bat for it to sink in to my head. Just one book should convince you of what they are really all about is Gentile Times Reconsidered. You can get one off of Amazon quite reasonably. If that book doesn’t convince you what liars they are, nothing will.

    I am sure all religions have some good points, even the Watchtower but do those other religions force you to go door to door with lies and if you don’t, disfellowship you for it or disassociate you for it? Do those other religions force you to not even have the ability to think or forbid you to speak freely, other than Watchtower think and talk or be looked down on if you don’t parrot what everybody else is saying? Do those other religions force you to give up your child’s life by refusing blood or disfellowship you if you let your child take blood to save it’s life? Do they shield rapists and child abusers and wife abusers?

    Just a little “leaven” ferments the whole lump as Jesus so aptly said.

  • September 3, 2014 at 6:28 am
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    JW4EVER,

    Thank you for another interesting post. You asked a very pertinent question. I think that it is obvious that none of us share your view that the WTBTS are “The Truth”

    I must admit that I am growing weary with your refusal to answer questions. If your religion has “The Truth” then why can’t you answer questions about it?

    Again, I am very comforted that you agree with us on the child abuse cover ups.

    I shall present a scenario.

    You have the correct, Christian view on child abuse. You agree that it is wrong to not inform the police and effectively, cover up these crimes.

    What would happen if you spoke up about this at the next meeting you attended?

    Would they agree, and as a Congregation contact the Governing Body to demand that the lists of paedophiles known by the WTBTS be handed in to the police immediately?

    I think that you would be sanctioned and you would be isolated and probably shunned by your fellows in “The Truth”

    Am I right? What would happen to you?

    I am convinced that the WTBTS will NOT hand over that list unless they are forced to by the “Superior Authorities”.

    If you want to help those children and young people then you need to help us to do that.

    Please, JW4EVER, help us to help those children and young people who have been abused. Help us to challenge and stop the shunning.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  • September 3, 2014 at 7:26 am
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    Hello JW4EVER, I agree with Excelsior. Please help us to help the most vulnerable. Children will continue to risk rape and trauma that only victims know. Keeping the identity of 22000+ known child sex abusers secret is criminal. This has absolutely nothing to do with religion. It is so horribly wrong that words fail me. Surely you must agree that the GB do not care about child safety. I will gladly endure shunning if these names are put in the hands the proper authorities. You obviously can think and reason for yourself. Our priority is the children please make it your`s. One more rape will be one too many.

    Jerry.

  • September 3, 2014 at 9:19 am
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    Jerry O’ Conner,

    I’m glad that you have decided to come back and post here on JW Survey.

    I’m sorry that you were upset by certain comments pertaining to your situation. Please be assured that we all want to help you.

    Your situation has moved me deeply. I have great sympathy for you, Jerry.

    I think anonymous had a great point (thanks again, dear Lady) of commenting here. Writing how you feel down can help to exorcise those feelings and give you the chance to breathe. You may decide not to post those feelings, but it will help.

    Have you sought professional help for your depression? You may find it helpful to benefit from some medication, at least for a short time. I know I did.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

    • September 3, 2014 at 11:16 am
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      Greetings Excelsior melancholia has departed. Thank you for your kind words. Is it not terrifying to know that there are 22000+ paedophiles loose among JW congregations? This figure I would say is a conservative one. I rang the PO of the local congregation and he had no idea if there was any one JW tasked with protecting its children. In a supposedly enlightened era Stygian darkness envelops watchtower. Let us hope for the sake of the children that the proper authorities will act. I would like to see JW4EVER back posting. I do think that he is on the brink of engaging his own thought process.

      Jerry.

  • September 3, 2014 at 11:56 am
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    @JW4EVER!!!:
    To answer your question–the things that you mention are among the things that initially drew me to “the Truth.” I still find appealing the notions that Christians should “learn war no more,” and be politically neutral, focusing solely on God’s Kingdom. I remember with admiration the stand of JW’s in Nazi Germany, as well as Lillian Gobitis and the flag salute issue. I was also more than willing to forego celebrating holidays in the interests of “pure worship.”
    However, as time went on, more and more things came up that troubled my conscience, and over the years I continued to do as I was encouraged, to “shelve” these concerns, to “wait on Jehovah.” Well, eventually the shelf fell off of the wall from the sheer weight of my concerns. The straw that broke the camel’s back was the entrenched child abuse policy. Add to this the convoluted blood ban, cold hearted and unevenly applied disfellowshipping, and the list could go on and on. *Sigh* I WISH “the Truth” truly was “truth.” If it was, I would, now as then, defend it to my last breath.

    • September 3, 2014 at 4:47 pm
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      This is the first time that I have joined a forum regarding Jehovah’s Witnesses, so please bear with me, for I have some anxiety about it. I would just like to respond to JW-4ever. I became one of Jehovah’s Witnesses when I was 12 years old. My mother converted into the religion and then asked all of her children (seven of us), if we also wanted to have a Bible study and become baptized.

      I said yes. At first it made me so elated, because I learned about a paradise on earth that would happen before the 1914 generation would pass away. Ironically, I began to experience severe depression shortly afterwards. When I was just 19 years old I married someone who was new in “the Truth”. The marriage proved to be a nightmare, for he was a psychopath. I was told to stay with him if I was to please Jehovah God and be obedient to Him and to the Elders, and the Organization. I was brainwashed, believing that in some way this was true. I began to drink to escape from the abuse. That was the beginning of several traumatic years to come. Finally, though, I decided to research the religion on my own. I even called Steve Hassan, who wrote a book on Cults. I finally realized that it was not the true religion. That realization was difficult for me. When I left, I missed all of the friends that I made over the years, and many were very good people. I also missed a feeling of spirituality that I would get at the Kingdom Hall. Now with all of the information on the internet, I am even more convinced that they are not God’s Organization on earth. The best thing that I did was leave, but I understand that this can be a slow and fearful process. That is all for now.

  • September 3, 2014 at 2:26 pm
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    JW 4EVER!!! Interesting so were in the Bible does the truth change? For instance if any of the Prophets said something and it did not come true. They were considered false prophets. This was how Jehovah’s people could determine TRUTH and FALSEHOOD. No were does this leave room for partial truth. Most religions want to tell people how and what they should do to serve God. In the GB case the blood issue. If some one had decided on their own it was okay to take fractions they would have been DF because it was a sin against God. True Christians, know only God can determine sin. But later they say fractions are okay so they were wrong and people were DF because if this.Interesting enough the Apostle had to be corrected on something he was teaching by Aquila and Priscilla. No were do we see Paul saying I was chosen by Jesus directly how dare you correct me. No were did he label them apostates because they correct him. Who corrects the GB please do not say it should come only from God. I just gave you an example when an Apostle was correct by others. Even Jesus did not leave a lot of rules and regulations for his followers. That is the problem of most religions they want to tell people how they should serve God. So in my perspective if it is not in the Bible clearly then it should be up to the individual. One thing I love about the GB is they quote scriptures when it works in their favor. But interesting enough if you read the scriptures about wrong doing in the Nation of Israel court cases were held at the city gate, so all could see justice as being served. If this is the case why aren’t DF cases held in public? You know the reason. Finally a secret book used by Elders that know one else knows about. Interesting other than the day and the hour what is hidden from us in the Bible.

  • September 4, 2014 at 8:34 am
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    Cedars,
    I cannot thank you enough for the courage to stand up and out in sharing the truth about what really goes on in this religion behind the scenes. Because of your website and other videos on YouTube, I had the courage to sign the petition at change.org and will soon write my letter of disassociation.

    I grew up in a very abusive home and have deep emotional wounds that I’m being treated for as a result of being raised in this religion, and the abuse & subsequent frequent suicide attempts I suffered at home that the elders did nothing about! The one elder who tried to show compassion was put in his place by the others. The rules on evidence or my mom having grounds to leave killed my spirit and it wasnt until I was already grown that the person admitted it to the abuse. To go into detail would take so long, but I will say this, I’m glad the veil has been lifted from my eyes, though as a child it was but under pressure of alienation from family and abusive childhood indoctrination I returned to it as an adult in 2006 and got baptized, zealously preaching the whole nine yards, but the illusion again wore off. I had to stand up because I could see the negative effect trying to live up to the cult-ish standards this religion had on my son. I said no more, I’m not putting him through this crap!! I told him he was of age to make his own choices and I didn’t care what his dad or anyone thought of me for telling him that it is his decision only to make as to what he wants to learn, and that nothing and no one would ever keep me from showing him the love and respect he is due no matter any of his decisions in life. I have kept quiet to keep contact with my mother, a JW, who suffered so may breakdowns because of hellish JW teachings and elder who cared less about abuse she suffered at the hands of her ex-husband. However I cannot set the right example for my child if I pretend to go along with something I no longer believe & support. It is going to practically kill me knowing my ailing mother who is in the care of a domineering JW family member will not be allowed to speak to me if I write my letter of disassociation but I must do it. It’s time I take a real stand. There are many genuine loving rank and file members who show great love in words and deed and I say nothing against them at all, as they are doing the only thing they know to be right and some of them personally shown me great love, many of them do not agree with shunning or being callous to people outside their organization, but they will stop showing this love the moment you leave not because of choice but because of the rules and the fear instilled in them from this high control cult. I was one of the main ones speaking up for the JW’s as not a cult but in my opionion it is nothing but a cult. It wears the cloak of a cult, the cult shoes fit and their organzation wears them til the soles fall off! I have seen many a good person turned against human nature by being taught to treat anyone not in the relgion as “fertilizer for the new world” and some of the kindest elderly women chastised for helping people who are not in the a part of the JW organization.

    There is a saying, you know the truth by the way it feels, this will never work telling a JW this because they are taught not to listen to their feelings, only what they are handed. It’s truly like a scene from the film The Time Machine, them just marching along into the hands of the oppressor without a fight. I can no longer keep silent like the elders did when they learned of my abuse and told me not to go telling people in the hall. You & your wife’s courage has helped strengthen me to take a stand for what I believe by not just falling into inactivity to keep contact with family, but to be one of the people who stand up against it. You have always been fair in the information you blog and videos Cedars, no one can truthfully argue that, and it only endears me to your site all the more in the time I’ve visited since nearly a year. I thank You again!

    I even have a dis-fellowshipped sibling whom I showed loved and care to the last couple of years despite what I was told by the elders, but even as a dis-fellowshipped person she thinks it’s wrong for me to choose to leave based on all the hell we endured. I supposed the last few years of her not having contact with the 2 family member she cares for most got to her or just the fact that she sincerely fears she will be destroyed. I know that though I showed compassion in her dis-fellowshipped state when she writes her letter to come back as mine is going out to disassociate myself, I will be back to being stigmatized even by her. I’m beyond sickened over this, but if we all take the cowardly way by simply fading, who will ever stand? Who will fight for our children and future generations .

    Much Love & respect to you and your family!

  • September 4, 2014 at 1:19 pm
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    It does take a lot of courage to take a stand for what you believe in as well as for your child. After being disfellowshipped for many years, taking this stand as well, I decided to go back to meetings until I was reinstated. I did this because I wanted to be able to freely take care of my Mom while she had cancer. I felt that I was in control of the situation, instead of JW’s. My Mom has since passed away. I believe that my sisters know why I did this. Now it is an opportunity for me to give them things to think about regarding their religion. I’m not saying that they will ever, ever leave, but I just can’t hold back. I believe that deep down they have doubts. So you I never know!

  • September 4, 2014 at 2:43 pm
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    @MyBirthRight: It is your personal, well thought out decision to write your letter of disassociation. PLEASE, though, if you have not written and sent it yet, give it a good long hard sober second thought. You can always write it in the future, but as you know it is very hard to be undone. You can do much good and hopefully still be true to yourself by being “inactive” but still active on these sites and tactfully directing your family.
    Again, only you know your circumstances, and I’m certainly not telling you what to do. I am just concerned.
    Agape, PSH

    • September 4, 2014 at 3:00 pm
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      I agree PureStrongheart. A decision to dissociate yourself is so final to JW’s. Sometimes even the children suffer, because some Witnesses feel uncomfortable even being in your home to see the unbaptized one. I couldn’t go to get togethers…have normal conversations with my family. It was like punishing myself in ways. It is a serious decision and very difficult, that deserves a lot of thought. In the long run, never talking to them again is devastating. You loose control over the situation, because they will NOT change their decision re: disfellowshipping and disassociation. If anything, they are becoming stricter and more cruel. I want to maintain my choice as far as who I can talk to or not in my family. I never want that hold on me again.

  • September 4, 2014 at 3:38 pm
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    @MyBirthRightt – It is not my business. But I agree do not dissociate yourself. It really is best to fade. This way you can still have connections. It should not bother you if fade and you are still being true to yourself. Who knows you maybe able to quietly but carefully help others. This way you keep control over your situation, not anyone or an organization. But that is just my opinion.

  • September 5, 2014 at 2:03 pm
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    PSH-To answer your question–the things that you mention are among the things that initially drew me to “the Truth.” I still find appealing the notions that Christians should “learn war no more,” and be politically neutral, focusing solely on God’s Kingdom. I remember with admiration the stand of JW’s in Nazi Germany, as well as Lillian Gobitis and the flag salute issue. I was also more than willing to forego celebrating holidays in the interests of “pure worship.”

    JW4EVR-You still find it appealing because that is what The Truth is. True Xtians do not get involved in war or are a part of any nation’s armed forces. We respect but we will never join even unto death. We are not involved in politics in any form of any party of any nation. You speak about foregoing holidays. I guess you felt you were missing something. I do not. I feel liberated from all of those non-christian festivities which in the end only serve the commercial interests of this world.

    I understand all here see us as brainwashed brain dead cultic zombies. OK. But, at least we are not being fooled by the commercial entities of the world that have the masses running to purchase the latest material goods using Christmas or Labor day or other holidays as a pretext. They play on people’s emotions using Baby Jesus as a marketing tool. Folks being economically unable to give their children expensive gifts also feel great amounts of stress at the prospect. We are free from that.

    We do not pledge allegiance to any flag of any nation. We respectfully rise but we do not worship it because to us pledging allegiance is a form of worship. For this we have suffered insults, have received beatings and have died. Do any here see this as incorrect? We fought in the Supreme Court for these rights and won. These victories also benefited other religions and expanded and concretized further what actually freedom of religion means. Do any disagree with this?

    Now to others here-
    The type of evidence you seek we can not offer. We have no fossils to show as proof. We have no tangible structures to offer as evidence of the type that you can analyze in a laboratory. There are no tests for validity and reliability. We have no double blinded studies published in peer reviewed journals that will prove any of this. There is nothing of the sort.

    These are just articles of faith. You accept it based on faith and live according to faith.

    • September 5, 2014 at 10:28 pm
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      JW 4 ever! Well done! You have banged yet another nail in the Watchtower coffin. Zero evidnece of any JW TRUTH.

      You do not have to be an unpaid mag pusher for the Watchtower outfit in order to campaign for peace, or not celebrate Christmas or any other holidays.

      Your ‘faith’ business could be equally used to accept the divine authoirity of the Pope or Sun Myung Moon. Faith could also lead you to accept, and act on, the Koran, as God’s final word to humanity.

      Objecting to war is obviously, uncontestably, a good thing. To look forward to your fantasy Aramgeddon when the bulk of your fellow humans will be executed for the capital crime of not sharing your funny little faith, is obscene in the extreme.

      Anyway, JW4Ever; keep posting. You are a great help in exposing the foulness that is the Watchtower Society.

      Well done!

    • September 6, 2014 at 2:28 am
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      JW-4Ever -so what you are saying is that, you are avoiding being fooled by the commercial entities who display some cultist techniques, by immersing yourself fully in a cult.
      *This is the cult part of you speaking*
      Most people in the real world can see that most holidays for exactly what they are – commercial events. But importantly are not captivated by them and put them in the place they deserve. People who have never been part of a cult are not so easily fooled. Don’t make the mistake of thinking you that somehow your saving yourself from one cult by running into the arms of another one, mistakenly thinking that it isn’t one.
      Its best to realize both for what they are and avoid them both.

      Yes I agree that JW’s have indeed won many cases in the supreme Court, and that is good for breaking down intolerance.
      But what no one agrees with is that same organization denies its members that same freedoms that it has itself just won. It is true hypocrisy to the very core.

      Hence why on earth and for what exactly have people suffered those beatings and deaths. It makes the WTB&TS culpable in these deaths and is thus abhorrent to the human spirit.

      Lastly in terms of faith. You can never expect or promote other people to believe or respect your views based solely on faith. That is shifting the burden away from where it belongs to where it doesn’t.
      The burden still sits firmly with you and ultimately the WTB&TS to provide the proof – the facts and evidence upon which faith can be based.

      Whilst in the vacuum of evidence you can understand why people will put as much faith in JW’s as they do in Mormons, the Moonies or Santa Cluase.

    • September 7, 2014 at 4:14 pm
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      So – JW 4 ever – Just which bits of JWdom do you have faith in, and why? You have already stated that you do not have faith in the JW paedophile protection policies. As the 2 witness rule, like every other aspect of JWdom, was instituted by Jehovah’s exclusive earthly reps, what gives you the right to object?

      You have also stated a preference for Russell style Bible student practices and doctrine. Does this include being OK with Christmas celebrations and blood transfusions? Do you believe in an imminent rapture, the use of the Masonic cross and the potential of pyramid measurements to calculate the date for Armageddon?

      From Russell inception right up to today, however, is the clear doctrine that absolute obedience to the diktats of the leader, for all that these diktats change regularly, is essential for Armageddon survival.

      Please explain, JW 4 Ever, exactly which bits of Bible student/JW doctrine you have decided are essential to earn Jehovah’s approval.

      It would appear from your writing thus far, that your JW/Bible student TRUTH collection is a singularly eclectic mix.

      Assuming that you have chosen, correctly, the only Jehovah approved doctrines, it would seem likely that you will be the only survivor of Armageddon!

      If you do have concern for the welfare of any fellow humans, and have faith in the correctness of your doctrinal selection, I trust you are gracious enough to share this life saving formula when putting in your doorstepping or mag stall minding hours.

  • September 5, 2014 at 3:55 pm
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    @JW4EVER!!!: I always liked the scriptural definition of “faith” found in Hebrews, as the NWT put it: “Faith is the ASSURED EXPECTATION of things hoped for, the EVIDENT DEMONSTRATION of realities, though not beheld.” To me, this was the antithesis of “just articles of faith” and “You accept it just based on faith.” It should be based on 1. assurance and 2. evident demonstration. Faith should withstand scrutiny. The Society’s claim to authority without question does not withstand scrutiny. The blood doctrine does not withstand scrutiny. Nor do the child abuse and disfellowshipping policies withstand scrutiny.

    The fact that someone withstands persecution for their beliefs might be admirable, but it does not make their worldview “the Truth.” Pastor Niemoller and Catholic priests also suffered persecution under the Nazis, but you would not argue that they had “the Truth” because of it.

    Although I admire many actions and teachings of Jehovah’s Witnesses (I will add to these “no hell,” “the earth shall stand to time indefinite,” etc), on balance, these do not outweigh the horrific suffering inflicted by the Society’s iron fisted policies on disfellowshipped family members, lives lost to denying transfusions, wasted lives due to lack of education and other opportunities, and lives wasted in times past due to the Witness hierarchy’s refusal to allow for alternatives to military service.
    ALL the “positive” teachings of Jehovah’s Witnesses that I mentioned COULD still exist, apart from the iron fisted insistence of the Governing Body at unity and conformity at all costs. I expect that this will never happen since, as has been pointed out here and in other places, the Society still doggedly and presumptuously insists on its unquestionable mantle of authority tied to the 1914-1919 timeline.

    One can STILL remain politically neutral; not participate in war; believe in Christ; reject the trinity, hellfire, and the immortal soul; take seriously the commission to “preach the good news”; live a “moral” life; and hold to most if not all of a number of Witness teachings. However, for me, it all comes back to the scripture that says “God is Love.” Is it loving to shun your children? Let them die due to hemmoraging? Allow their abusers to attend the same Kingdom Hall. (I just notice that all of these involve children!) These are among the things that caused my “shelved concerns” to pull the shelf off of the wall.

    JW4EVER!!!, in some ways, I want so much for it to be “The Truth.” I have given so much of my years to it and if it was all about love and the paradise…wow. Keep me signed up. But, alas, it is not. It brings me no joy to point this out. The only silver lining is this: Stand firm, then as now, to keep living the truth in your life. If the truth is that “the Truth” is not the truth, then, oh well. Moreover, LIVE! Life is a magical gift. I, for one, intend to use the time left of my life treasuring it.

  • September 5, 2014 at 5:44 pm
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    @MyBirthRight: further to the benefits of NOT disassociating yourself, if it is an option. AWAA.com reports on a former MEK member from the London Undue Influence conference, who identified his own group as a cult. He points out, “So if a parent has contact, they should not try to talk about politics or religion. They should show only kindness and love. This is the member’s weakness. Feelings do not die away, even if personality has changed. So the parent has to let them know they will be there, waiting. There has to be a pathway back to a life where family love is there, something that has nothing do with ideological thinking. Unconditional love unlocks the mind manipulation that has taken place.”
    If you still have contact, you can still show that unconditional love. Just sayin.’

  • September 5, 2014 at 5:46 pm
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    p.s. I guess it is awaa.co (link in the top right margin)

  • September 6, 2014 at 2:32 am
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    JW4EVER,

    Thank you for your post.

    I can point to fossils, peer reviewed scientific evidence and other, solid, verifiable facts to back my arguments!

    I sense that you do not want to answer the questions we have raised, and I understand that. It’s ok.

    You don’t have to answer them here, in print as it were. You can answer them for yourself, privately. The important thing is to ask the questions of yourself and come to answers for yourself.

    I truly appreciate your comments. For one, they are written with correct spelling and grammar, unlike so many JW apologists’ comments! Also, you are unfailingly polite, unlike many, many pro JW posters over the months I have been visiting and commenting on this site! Thank you for that.

    This particular article is about the monstrous order to shun disfellowshipped loved ones, and view them as dead people walking. Don’t you see the gross violation of Jesus’ principles here, JW4EVER?

    Christians are commanded to love their enemies (Luke 6) so why do the JWs show so little love to those who leave their religion?

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  • September 10, 2014 at 4:59 pm
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    Thanks for the kind words, Excelsior.

    • September 10, 2014 at 9:06 pm
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      ANd thank you, JW 4 Ever, for demonstrating to any curious visitor to this site that there is no reason whatever for believing in any selection of Bible Student/RUssellite/Rutherford/Modern JW ever changing TRUTHS.

      As you wrote there is no evidence whatever for any of their extraordinary and ridiculous claims. Belief in them requires blind faith, a very dangerous phenomenon, which, at the extremes, can inspire suicide bombers.

      Blind faith in JWdom involves sacrificing one’s life to the diktats of a bunch of guys whose record, Rutherford, RUssell or latterday, amounts to duff prophecy. WHy have faith in an organisation whose central obsession is the imminence of Armageddon and Jehovah’s mega destruction of the bulk of humanity, when their every prophecy has proved false?

      Obviously war is a foul way of settling any sort of dispute. JWs, however, revel in the prospect of a murderous orgy, this Armageddon horror fantasy, which will kill more people than any war ever has done.

      As I mentioned in a previous post, your selection of JW TRUTHS, sounds so singular, that the JW 4 Ever fantasy Armageddon may well leave only JW 4 Ever alive to enjoy his Paradise Earth. You still have not ‘enlightened’ us with exactly which Russellite bits of doctrine are required to be melded with which current JW articles of faith in order for God not to execute us.

      DO you not want to save us? DO you want Paradise Earth all for yourself? OK, we have not to believe in the 2 witness rule when applied to Paedos. This, however, while it remains merely in your head, and on this site, will have no effect on JW victims. You need to tell the Gov. Bod. that you disagree. And you know what will happen then. YOu will be a shunned ex JW, and then, if your beliefs are the only GOd approved ones; nobody will survive Armageddon.

      WHo is there that remains in the JWs after defying the diktats of its bosses? YOu, JW 4 Ever, believe that only JWs will survive Armageddon, but you are not, in your heart, a JW. You do not accept all their doctrines. You seem to have a mind of your own.

      THank you, anyway, for being bold enough to display to the world. (well this site anyway) your tragic and ridiculous state of mind. Your posts are a great warning to anyone who might be beguiled by the initial JW vision.

      Please keep posting!

    • September 11, 2014 at 6:33 am
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      And remember, JW 4 Ever, that ‘God’s exclusively earthly reps’, the JW GOv. Bod., may not be aware that you have defied their divine and absolute authority by taking issue with the 2 witness rule and engaging with apostates on the internet.

      The omniscient Jehovah, however, knows everything. He knows you have usurped the authority of his terrestrial appointees by contributing here and questioning the wisdom of his agents. Hence you are marked now for Armageddon execution.

      Or you would be if JWdom were anything more than an obscene and disgusting fantasy.

      Anyway, JW 4 Ever – we all look forward to your next posts! Best wishes.

  • September 11, 2014 at 7:05 am
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    Hello Rowland the words obscene, disgusting and fantasy sum up watchtower perfectly. As cults go this is an extremely sinister one. I see it as being more dangerous than that of Jones. If the dictators in Brooklyn tell 8,000,000 JWs that death is the road to their fools paradise well watchtower history paints an appalling vista. I would not rule out anything with the leaders of this cult. The obedience is absolutely blind and therefore anything is possible. If there was a god his first job would be to nuke Brooklyn. We know that there is no god so it is up to the media and hopefully the UN to close this obscenity down.
    Jerry.

    • September 11, 2014 at 7:29 am
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      Thanks, Jerry, for your endorsement. Meanwhile, while we wait for officialdom, in the form, amongst others, of prosecutions for paedophile protection and the deprivation of this most uncharitable cult of its tax evading charitable status, we can rely on JW 4 Ever to display to the world the terrible and tragic state of mind that it takes to remain a member of this foul and murderous little outfit.

      Keep the posts coming JW 4 Ever – the ex and anti JW movement needs you!

      • September 11, 2014 at 8:01 am
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        Yes Rowland we wait but there is forward motion and it is speeding up. JW 4 Ever is a reminder, which we do not need of watchtower speak. I have yet to see anyone talking Cedar`s challenge and no one ever will. Any people that I speak to about watchtower are now using cult to describe it. This is progress which can be built upon Just today I spoke with a friend and he said that denying blood to children is murder pure and simple. Attitudes among the “neutrals” is no longer apathetic. Watchtower will fall I do not doubt this one little bit.

        Jerry

        • September 11, 2014 at 9:26 am
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          Plenty of other sects and cults, from CHristendom (yes, that grubby little late 19th century Adventist spinoff is simply one of the worst aspects of CHristendom, just as it is part of the world, one of its worst parts) and elsewhere have been flushed down history’s toilet. The internet is the enemy of dicatatorships everywhere. With or without JW4 Ever’s help the Watchtower is heading for history’s dustbin.

          Every little helps, though, JW 4 Ever – so keep those comments coming!

  • September 12, 2014 at 6:32 am
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    JW4EVER,

    You are welcome!

    I am hoping that we have established mutual respect and that we can have polite, civil conversations in the future.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  • September 12, 2014 at 8:05 am
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    JW4EVER, sorry you contradict yourself…you said you believe “most” of the things the JW.Borg dish out and then you say you have “no doubts”…if you have no doubts why do you only believe most and not all?

    You contradict yourself again by having no doubts at all by then saying you are on this site despite the GB’s insistence you avoid this site and others like it.

    Again you contradict your opening gambit by not agreeing with the GB on child abuse.

    If it is the “Truth” and the truth is solely based on the doctrine that Jesus found the JWs to be providing the right and correct teachings in 1919, if this is all true then why did Taze R say the pop was Michael the Archangel, the Bishops were the angels and many more crazy teachings. This you cannot simply defend as changing light because Jesus would of seen those teachings were very wrong indeed.

    Birthdays are not Bible based at all and you CANNOT find any words in the Bible to claim they are. After all did the Bible not state at the birth of Jesus that this was to be rejoiced? Just because 2 bad men in the Bible did bad things on their birthdays does not mean all birthdays are wrong, those bad men did bad things all year round.

    Birthdays are simply a recognition of one being a year older, I have a birthday every year and so do you, it does not make me a bad man each year because I have one…however if I did bad things, crimes, sinned, got drunk and acted wildly just because it is my birthday then yes the Bible warns against that but the birthday itself is not wrong because if it was why does the Bible say REJOICE at the birth of Jesus?

    Also, blood transfusions are not wrong. Why? The Bible refers to animals and the “eating of blood”, at no point via a transfusion do you eat blood nor do you digest or consume it. What is laughable is that JWs will take blood fractions (donated by other people) but will not donate themselves so others can have fractions – what utter and total hypocrisy.

    Any and all JWs should research the 1919 teachings and then decide if what Jesus saw was the “truth”, any sane person would clearly see they were not, not even close. After all, even the 1914 date was calculated by the size of the Pyramid (another one of Russels beliefs and teachings), he taught the Pyramids were the God Stones.

    Fact remain JW4EVER that you cannot deny any of these things and if you wish to be like a blinkered horse and ignore the true facts then good for you but just because you ignore the truth about the truth, it does not make “your” truth correct and if a truth is not correct then it is a lie.

    One last note…the Bible warns of false prophets, to date and using reliable information, the watch tower has made over 300 false predictions and when they keep not coming true they use the new light excuse. The Bible clearly warns us of this and false teachings, prophets and teachings but JWs get these taught to them all the time…but still indoctrinated JWs simply turn a deaf ear to the facts.

    I do not understand how so many people are happy to be misled.

    • September 12, 2014 at 9:23 pm
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      All true, Jim. But as I have reminded JW 4 Ever many times, his posts here are of great use in the campaign to expose, discredit and, hopefully, destroy that foul, malign obscenity, the Watchtower Society.

      He is an illustration of the utterly confused, tragic, trapped and warped mindset required to believe in all (or even, in his case, an arbitrary selcetion of current, his own and RUssell’s) the ever changing, contradictory, cruel and ridiculous TRUTHS pumped out by that little clique of control freaks in New York, the JW Governing Body.

      Come on, JW 4 Ever; let us have some more of your posts!

      • September 12, 2014 at 11:48 pm
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        Hi Rowland

        I think Cedars challenge to bring down this website is perfect…if anything said is untrue then bring it and us down. They cannot because it is all true.

        Simply put, anyone who knows the truth about the truth and ignores it is foolish. Anyone who refuses to research the truth prior to baptism is foolish.

        What is sad, is one should be baptised in the Name of The Father, Son and Holy Ghost. JWs get baptised in the name of the watchtower – surely this should be their biggest clue of all that they are followers of the watchtower and not Jehovah.

        I listened in to a meeting 2 weeks ago via the phone link, there an elder said and I quote “we have the best education in all the world, we are the most intelligent people due to this education” This elder cleans carpets for a job.

        There was then a 20 year old brother who said balancing work and the ministry is difficult but can be done when things are put in their proper place. This young brother is a regular aux pioneer…he is also unemployed (through choice) and gets benefits and the tax payer pays for his aux pioneering.

        Two examples of the delusional attitudes that are abundant in the watchtower rank and file.

        Jim

  • September 23, 2014 at 4:50 pm
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    Now JimmyG JimmyG JimmyG, don’t you know that the light keeps getting brighter??? Shame on you! LOL

    Isn’t it amazing that the gb (they don’t deserve caps) took so long to figure out precisely who they are?

  • September 23, 2014 at 9:21 pm
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    Sadly, I don’t think this stance will change anytime soon, although it is amazing that in the 1947 article you pointed out that the gb had the opposite view of shunning. As long as an organization can hide behind their interpretation of the bible and claim religious “hands off”, not much is likely to happen. Religion gets a pass nearly every time, esp. in the US. Same is true for $cientology for example. Claim you are a church with the truth and that tax exempt status and you can get away with nearly everything, it makes me sick.

  • September 23, 2014 at 9:39 pm
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    JW-4Ever, your last two sentence could be translated this way: These are just articles of the gb’s faith. You accept it based on faith in the gb (their opinions as it were the truth directly from god) and live according to the gb’s faith.

    No room for personal opinion or speculation (see your own literature). Oh yes, the gb are the only ones who can “speculate” on scripture, I forgot. But then again, they are your mediators, so I guess they are allowed that hallowed self-appointed position with it’s benefit of speculation, etc. Seems a bit haughty and prideful to me by the way. Imagine: Seven guys in the entire world claiming they are the only ones with the real truth (provisional truth it turns out). Arrogance beyond words.

  • September 24, 2014 at 1:51 am
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    Hello Max.

    You are so right, the Brooklyn Dodgers do not merit caps. It is the gb from hence forth. Let us hope that in the near future they will be called “the accused”. We are now 100 years on from 1914. The latter carries far more implications for jws than it does for all now free of this obscene cult. I recently came upon an article which tried to explain the many new variations of the word “cult”. These variations have all come from watchtower and none make any linguistic sense. Rhetoric yes, illogical confusion to bewilder the foot soldiers most definitely. Are they not confused and bewildered right now.

    Jerry

  • November 27, 2014 at 6:24 pm
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    How did you “lost my wife, children and home due to inhumane watchtower policy” if it is ok to ask?

  • November 27, 2014 at 6:37 pm
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    “Is it loving to shun your children?” Who was Adam and Eve to Jehovah? Who were were the angels that had to be cast out of haven? How do you think that made Jehovah feel?

  • November 27, 2014 at 6:39 pm
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    “RELIGIOUS NEUTRALITY – Do not post comments that are evangelical in nature or may be construed as imposing one person’s religious beliefs (or lack thereof) over those of another”

    Isn’t that what this entire website is based on?

  • November 27, 2014 at 6:52 pm
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    Jon,

    Jehovah did not shun Adam and Eve, he spoke to them after he had cast them out. He also spoke to Cain, warning him about his jealousy. It is clear that Jehovah was in some contact with the early human family after he had cast them out. No shunning there.

    The Angels who took wives for themselves returned to heaven after the deluge. Satan was able to converse with Jehovah on various occasions. No shunning there.

    I will leave you with this to consider. Can you find me an instance of Jesus Christ shunning anyone? By shunning I mean refusing to talk to someone at all, not even saying a greeting.

    I would genuinely be interested in your opinion and your answer to my question.

    Peace be with you,

    Excelsior!

  • December 3, 2014 at 2:28 pm
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    1 Cor 5:11

    • December 3, 2014 at 2:43 pm
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      Jon,

      Why do people always overlook this part “5 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father’s WIFE. 2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.” This was not some hidden sin. This was a sin that had reach all the way to the Apostle Paul. In those days, there was not internet, radio or TV you do know that correct? Therefore this had to be very public SIN. Not something hidden ie a confession made to a group of man in a back room. Even by today’s so called degraded moral standards I think this would be frowned upon.

  • December 3, 2014 at 2:39 pm
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    John 8:7

  • December 4, 2014 at 3:02 pm
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    The question was what does the bible say about those that show no repentant attitude AND have been cast out AFTER trying to reach their hearts? (Not a matter of confession since that is not what Paul was talking about)

    1 Corinthians 5:11 “But now I am writing you to STOP KEEPING COMPANY with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, NOT EVEN EATING A MEAL THE MAN.”

    [Capitalization are my own]

    • December 4, 2014 at 3:17 pm
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      Jon, can the elders tell if a person is truly repentant? Be careful. Because we all know any elder body today would have dis fellowship David. I am pretty sure Paul by opening with the man who had such bold brazen in the OPEN conduct is the person(people he is referring to). Not some one who went before three men and these three men determine they were not repentant. There is NO DOUBT this man was not repentant as his sin was public knowledge to all and apparently he was still very active in his sin. Again you side step my point as his sin was know to ALL. Not just three men in a committee. (Witnesses condemn people for taking just part of a scripture and not reading and applying the surrounding verses but it is okay when it is of benefit to them)

    • December 4, 2014 at 3:23 pm
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      “… AFTER trying to reach their hearts?”

      The elders do not try to reach their hearts at all. Rather they will say very little to help them, because they’re afraid that they might put words into their mouths. That’s my personal experience, it’s exactly what they said to me.

    • December 4, 2014 at 11:46 pm
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      You should know, Jon, that the JW disfellowshipping cruelty is not Bible based. It is based purely on the need for absolute unquestioning conformity to the JW bosses’ diktats. If the JW bosses declare that Armageddon is definitely due before the end of the 20th century, (JW TRUTH when I was ensnared in the cult as a child) then the whole global congregation has to believe and parrot that TRUTH. JWs have been bludgeoned, via threats of Armageddon annihilation, to imagine, despite the total lack of evidence, that Jesus returned invisibly in 1914 and apointed the Bible Students (later JWS) as his sole earthly agent back in 1914. The current Gov. Bod. thus has to be presumed, despite again, zero evidence, to be the Faithful and Discreet Slave as referred to be Jesus in Matthew 24.

      An organisation or individual that tries to justify wrecking families and causing no end of depression and sometimes suicide, simply because some people refuse to swallow this shedload of transparent nonsense, deserves only exposure and ridicule.

      Fortunately, even for believing JWs, the malevolent and hideous authority of the JW bosses is not absolute. Even you, Jon, have defied them by coming on here and engaging with ‘apostates’.

      Best wishes Jon. I hope that one day you will be free from the Watchtower’s destructive power and that you will see your way to the Kingdom Hall exit.

  • December 4, 2014 at 11:47 pm
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    Correction (sic). Jws God’s sole earthly agent appt. was 1918!

  • December 24, 2014 at 4:29 am
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    I am going to quote a paragraph from the December 1, 2006 Watchtower, page 27 paragraph 12:

    “The apostle Paul wrote: “Let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to us in the faith.” (Galatians 6:10) As Christians, we have an obligation to show love for those who are related to us in the faith-our spiritual brothers and sisters. How important is this love? Making this powerful point, the apostle John wrote: “Everyone who hates his brothers is a manslayer……If anyone makes the statement: ‘I love God,’ and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For he who does not love his brothers, whom he has seen, cannot be loving God, whom he has not seen.” (1 John 3:15; 4:20) These are strong words. Jesus Christ applied the words “manslayer” and “liar” to Satan the Devil. (John 8:44) Never would we want those terms applis to us!”

    All the years I was in the Watchtower, I thought those words only applied to my “brothers and sisters” in the “truth” but if you read the Bible for what it actually says, if we were to “hate” our fleshly brothers or sisters, we are manslayers and liars. Cain killed his fleshly brother and was a manslayer.

    The Watchtower never applies that counsel to anybody else except to other witnesses who would be considered brothers or sisters. That is so that we skip over that thought when it comes to disfellowshipping our relatives.

  • December 24, 2014 at 4:32 am
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    in my quote, that last sentence from that Watchtower should have read: “Never would we want those terms applied to us” not applis like what I wrote.

  • February 25, 2015 at 7:12 pm
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    This is from the 1961 Watchtower March 1, issue page 159 under the topic Questions from readers and this is the question:

    “If my brother in the flesh, who is disfellowshiped, and his family come to visit me from out of town, may I invite them in and even permit them to stay overnight if need be? – E.T., United States
    Answer: “The disfellowshiping of a member of one’s relationship does not cancel the natural flesh-and-blood relationship. For example, disfellowshiping of itself would not break the marital tie. Hence, if a brother in the flesh who is disfellowshiped visits with his family on the basis, not of Christian unity, but of family relationship, then one would be entitled to receive him with courtesy on that natural earthly basis, not, of course, to have spiritual association with him and treat him as a member of the congregation, but merely to discuss family relationship and other mundane matters.”

    This is the religion of the 1960’s when it came to disfellowshiping, but it changed into a religion that is totalitarian in nature, using disfellowshiping as a weapon to keep people from leaving. What it does now is completely opposite as what it was in 1960 as how cruel and unfeeling it has become.

    A religion that tears families apart like that, can only be described as Satanic and evil. It may have been humane in the treatment of a person who was disfellowshipped in the 1960’s, but it is not humane anymore. So, it’s the religion that has become apostate, not the people in it. Jehovah’s Witnesses have been tricked and trapped by an evil cult that is only going to become even more controlling if it’s not stopped one day, and hopefully soon.

  • March 1, 2015 at 12:59 pm
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    PureStrongHeart and ScrubMaster thank you so very much for your kind concern. I gave your advice so much thought these past several months. There are things that complicate the matter as far as fading is concerned, despite not the fact that I do not want to have to live a lie by pretending, is the fact that having a spouse who is still active in this religion and questioned about me and often makes it very hard to simply ‘fade’.

    Also, not sure much influence I could yield on others since the congregation has been repeatedly warned about association with you once you even start missing meetings regularly. I’m still asked after often as most think that it is still my physical pains that are still keeping me away, and whatever else my husband may be telling them by now. I haven’t written the disassociation letter but desperately want to. I do know that because my mother is ill it will be devastating, and will nearly kill me to know that she and other close witness relatives will be “allowed” to speak to my spouse at but I may be instantly cut off because it has been programmed into her that if she truly loves me she will shun to ‘save’ me. I would do anything to help her wake up and I do mean anything, so yes, I am taking your words to heart in hopes that the info you mentioned on the undue influence conference may assist in waking them up.

    I believe my spouse now knows deep down now that this isn’t right, but feels he needs it as a crutch. I feel like a complete idiot for ever letting the witnesses into our lives or home since my husband was agnostic/atheistic when we met and back then he never would’ve went along with anything like this for a second. But he is still naive to a lot of what really goes on since he’s only been in the religion about 6 years, so he may be getting the hook line and sinker about all the new “changes for the better” in the organization but he also has voiced that he knows some things aren;t right. But weren’t we all told to patiently wait, so some of are love ones know it;s wrong but are patiently allowing themselves to continue being mislead.

    I just don’t want my name associated with the religion anymore, I’m ashamed of it, I do not want to give the organization one more number they can claim as a member by staying and mostly I want to be a strong example for my son. For others who want out, maybe if we all that want out would just get out right away by the droves it would help wake them up sooner if they aren;t fed some crap that it’s just because it’s a new cleansing period in the organization.

    I would endure it a little longer if there was in hope that doing so might help my mom and other wake up, but seeing as how the tables turn at the speed of light when you even hint you are concerned about the doctrines, I don’t see a way around it. I finally mentioned this week that I haven’t been attending and no longer wish to attend and even that I wanted to write my letter of disassociation boy how my witness relatives told me that I was walking away from life taking it out on God and even that I’m alienating them because of this. It was even alluded that I’m in worse shape if I walk away that a dis-fellowshipped sibling, because my case will be willingly walking away! Would j-witnesses really rather see people miserable living a lie, or dead in a good standing than happy and unterrified at life and enjoying free will?!! I’m so appalled it’s beyond words.

  • March 4, 2015 at 5:53 pm
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    @ScrubMaster @Ephiphany @ScrubMaster
    I gave long thought to the advice you kindly offered, I appreciate your concern : ) It’s so much more complicated though when you have a spouse that is still an active witness and my child is still a minor. I just couldn’t bear another second of having my name attached to this organization for so many reasons. Even if I were to have faded like I tried, with my husband attending and being questioned since I was in “fine standing” in the congregation, it was too difficult to fade out without the congregation thinking it was just because of the physical illness I went through etc.

    Also, to try and stay in in effort help other get out would be hard in my circumstances when they are warned about association with inactive ones. Even if I wanted to simply fade for the sake of my beloved mother while my son and I enjoyed the freedom from the organization, with an active mate I could not get away with it, it would mean I’d have to make my son live a lie or go without freedoms for the sake of someone else. I don’t wanna live a lie but I refuse to make him go through it. Nothing in existence will make me turn my back on him!

    All this said, I finally mentioned last month that I was turning in my letter this week and my heart was shattered into a million pieces more than I thought was even left of my already broken heart. I was told by some relatives that my decision was worse for walking away by choice, although I committed no “sin” than it is for my disfellowshipped sibling who was put out by elder decision upon her willful confession to “wrongdoing”!

    My husband is newer to the org as of only 6-7 years in, so he doesn’t believe the crap storm that’s to come when one walks away. He is more influenced by what looks like organizational reform.

    I now know this, my fragile mother will be kept from me and this won’t be the first time, the first time was when I left home to escape the abusive hands of her ex husband that caused all my suicide attempts, and although I wasn’t baptized he kept me away from her and my siblings, my mother went into breakdowns and years of abuse from him before she finally got away for a time, Now it is a group of men in New York, and I’m grieved beyond belief. To add to that my husband has began hinting that he “needs” to be a Witness to be the husband to me that he knows would be right. Imagine every effort to wake up your spouse who has come to believe that he needs the organization to be strong enough to endure difficult situations, but you try all you can to help them awake at all cost even if that means that your marriage ends because you love them and care for their well being.

    This is where I am now, because it is hard to feel truly loved by the people who mean the most to me in the world apart from my only child whom I love most of all. I actually found myself calling the crisis hotline because I needing all my strength to care for my son who has special needs and this crush of having no one very close to I am comfortable to confide in! It’s hurting my child to see all this no matter how I try to shield him from seeing this.

    To think, this organization has the nerve to claim it doesn’t tear apart families!

  • March 4, 2015 at 6:01 pm
    Permalink

    @ScrubMaster @Ephiphany @PureStrongHeart
    I gave long thought to the advice you kindly offered, I appreciate your concern : ) It’s so much more complicated though when you have a spouse that is still an active witness and my child is still a minor. I just couldn’t bear another second of having my name attached to this organization for so many reasons. Even if I were to have faded like I tried, with my husband attending and being questioned since I was in “fine standing” in the congregation, it was too difficult to fade out without the congregation thinking it was just because of the physical illness I went through etc.

    Also, to try and stay in in effort help other get out would be hard in my circumstances when they are warned about association with inactive ones. Even if I wanted to simply fade for the sake of my beloved mother while my son and I enjoyed the freedom from the organization, with an active mate I could not get away with it, it would mean I’d have to make my son live a lie or go without freedoms for the sake of someone else. I don’t wanna live a lie but I refuse to make him go through it. Nothing in existence will make me turn my back on him!

    All this said, I finally mentioned last month that I was turning in my letter this week and my heart was shattered into a million pieces more than I thought was even left of my already broken heart. I was told by some relatives that my decision was worse for walking away by choice, although I committed no “sin” than it is for my disfellowshipped sibling who was put out by elder decision upon her willful confession to “wrongdoing”!

    My husband is newer to the org as of only 6-7 years in, so he doesn’t believe the crap storm that’s to come when one walks away. He is more influenced by what looks like organizational reform.

    I now know this, my fragile mother will be kept from me and this won’t be the first time, the first time was when I left home to escape the abusive hands of her ex husband that caused all my suicide attempts, and although I wasn’t baptized he kept me away from her and my siblings, my mother went into breakdowns and years of abuse from him before she finally got away for a time, Now it is a group of men in New York, and I’m grieved beyond belief. To add to that my husband has began hinting that he “needs” to be a Witness to be the husband to me that he knows would be right. Imagine every effort to wake up your spouse who has come to believe that he needs the organization to be strong enough to endure difficult situations, but you try all you can to help them awake at all cost even if that means that your marriage ends because you love them and care for their well being.

    This is where I am now, because it is hard to feel truly loved by the people who mean the most to me in the world apart from my only child whom I love most of all. I actually found myself calling the crisis hotline because I needing all my strength to care for my son who has special needs and this crush of having no one very close to I am comfortable to confide in! It’s hurting my child to see all this no matter how I try to shield him from seeing this.

    To think, this organization has the nerve to claim it doesn’t tear apart families!

  • March 4, 2015 at 11:52 pm
    Permalink

    To “MyBirthRight”, Reading your story made me cry. I can feel your pain and anguish and it is overwhelming. I offer you my sincerest love, encouragement and support, my dear sister.

    It is only my opinion, but I believe obeying your conscience and leaving was the right choice. God gave us our conscience for a reason and I think we pay too dear a price to not listen to our inner voice. We have to live with ourselves and be able to face the person in the mirror everyday.

    I believe that if we only ask Jesus, he will send the Holy Spirit to comfort us and help us endure. Many times I have found peace settle into my heart after asking for Holy Spirit.

    Prepare yourself for even more heartbreak because it is coming. The pain will never really go away, but you can have a meaningful, happy life outside of the organization.

    Get help from professionals for depression if you are able to. If that’s not possible, for now, just follow the basics of life. Take care of yourself so you can be there for yourself and your son. Eat nutriously, get plenty of sleep. If at all possible try to walk or exercise, even for only a few minutes a day. Be especially kind to yourself, forgive yourself. Give yourself permission to grieve.

    I have found that writing my thoughts down on paper helps me to have more control over my life. Just the act of writing my thoughts down takes away their power over me and life is not nearly as scary.

    Don’t try to live in the future, you only have to live in this moment right now.

    Look online for resources to help you.

    Then there is always Cedar’s site here. There are many of us on here who have gone through what you are going through now. Reach out to us. We are all in this together.

    Your loving sister

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