It’s the time of year when Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide look forward with eager anticipation to Watchtower’s Annual Meeting.
Usually hosted at the Jersey City Assembly Hall (or “Stanley Theater”), over recent years the Governing Body has increasingly used the event to showcase new releases, or announce new organizational developments or understandings of scripture.
The 2015 Annual Meeting, to be held next Saturday, October 3rd, will be no different. But this time, thanks to an anonymous contact within the organization, JWsurvey has exclusive details of what will be announced.
A letter to be read to all congregations dated October 4, 2015 (the day after the Annual Meeting) outlines a number of intriguing changes that, in different ways, highlight the new direction in which the organization is moving.
Gone is the much-loved Theocratic Ministry School, to be replaced by a 15-minute session for demonstrating preaching presentations. And, perhaps more tellingly, printing of the public Watchtower and Awake! magazines is being further scaled back as the organization continues to downsize.
[Update: 09/29/2015 – Letter removed –
For more information, please click here ]
As mentioned, the scaling down of magazine printing is perhaps the most telling of these changes. In July 2013, I wrote about how the magazine reductions for that year represented a 39% reduction in printing since 2005. That figure is now up to a staggering 57% reduction in monthly magazine printing, even after factoring in increased circulation figures for the Watchtower and Awake!.
If you want to check my math for yourself, please do…
Jehovah’s Witnesses trying to digest this news would do well to ponder the question: “If we are so deep in the last days, and more urgently in need of spiritual food than ever before in earth’s history, why is spiritual food in our magazines being reduced? Why would Jehovah give us MORE spiritual food 10 years ago, when there was supposedly more time to elapse before Armageddon, than now?”
The reduction in printed “spiritual food” will be especially noticeable to anyone who collects bound volumes of the organization’s magazines. As the following graph shows, the equivalent of only 9 months’ worth of pages out of the original 24 months (12 months for each magazine) will be printed from 2016 onwards…
The announcement about the updated “Organized” book also offers a glimpse at the direction Watchtower is being forced to move in as its woes deepen. Publishers have been told to ponder carefully whether they really need a printed copy of the book rather than viewing it online.
It really wouldn’t surprise me if, within the next few years, we reach a stage where printing operations are cancelled altogether and ALL material for preaching and meeting preparation is to be accessed online, with greater use of tablets or publishers printing out their own leaflets advertising JW.org.
The scrapping of the Theocratic Ministry School will similarly come as a shock and disappointment to many thinking Witnesses. As I mention in the video that accompanies this article (see below), if there was one nugget of goodness in my experience as a Jehovah’s Witness, it was in the training I received as a public speaker in the Theocratic Ministry School.
Not that the Theocratic Ministry School compensated me in any way for the many years I wasted being taught lies, but at least it gave me skills that were transferable for when I left the organization. Now, even that small personal benefit has been excised by the Governing Body, who are seemingly only interested in their followers learning how to be distributors of their propaganda rather than competent individuals who can express themselves effectively.
But any sadness and nostalgia I may feel for seeing the religion I grew up in bled of all useful cultural elements is quickly replaced by joy, for two reasons.
Firstly, I have the privilege of witnessing a harmful cult entering its death throes, forced by this wondrous new age of information to downsize and implement counter-productive measures in its floundering attempts to stay afloat.
And just as significantly, I am witnessing a Governing Body that, already unable to claim control over ALL of its 8 million members (many of whom stay inside through fear rather than choice), cannot even stop leaks from the bethelites it sits down for breakfast with.
Change is happening before our very eyes, and THAT is worth celebrating.
Update: for those of you who might be wondering whether this leak is genuine, the following images have emerged on a pro-Watchtower website (jw-archive.org) related to the new “Teach Us” book. The title differs from that mentioned in the letter (“What Can the Bible Teach Us”). Also, the letter advises that the cover will be only “slightly altered” from that of the Bible Teach book, so it could be that these are only early mock-ups before changes were made to the title and appearance. We shall see.
Further reading…
- More downsizing on the way? Multiple sources report bethel letter warning of further cuts
- Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh
- JWsurvey articles on organizational downsizing
Related video…
I’m wondering why a religion would need this type of disclaimer on their own publications:
“Revised Organized Book: We are also pleased to inform you that a revised edition of the book Organized to Do Jehovah’s Will has been produced. … Before you can access the book in JW Library, you must first download the latest version of the application. The following disclaimer will appear on the screen: “This book is an internal publication, provided solely for use by congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and is not intended for public distribution.” ”
What are they hiding? This is just bizarre to me, having never been a JW. No wonder my mother is so confused!
All part of the control mechanisms that cults use to keep their weird ideas hidden from the general public
When you think about it, who was it that usually wrote up those talks for the kids anyway? Wasn’t it the parents? So, these kids won’t have to pretend to have written those talks anymore and maybe some of the pressure will be off of them to impress and some of the pressure for the parents to “impress” by way of showing off how “spiritual” their families by showing off their 5 year old kids getting up there and giving talks they have no idea what they are even talking about.
Yup that was me!! At least now through my own intelligible personal study I know what’s really going on. Fool me once but not twice. Lol
Great work Lloyd!
First alarm bell from this letter: Their nickname for this book is “Teach Us.” Now they don’t even say “Bible,” when referring to the book they are using to introduce themselves and their beliefs?
(What does the Bible teach us? – To read God’s word, or to write books ABOUT God’s word?…)
WHY do they need a simpler presentation … ???
“The Teach Us book does not replace the Bible Teach book. Rather, it will be useful when studying with individuals who need to have the truth presented in a simpler manner.”
and I’m curious to hear their reasoning here …
“Some of the text and illustrations used in the Bible Teach book have been adjusted.” (WHY??)
I was a bible student, and we went through the entire “Bible Teach” book with different JW teachers. I would not describe this book as something that needs to be made MORE simple.
Maybe they want to make it easier to get your “student” to the end of the book, so you can start pressuring them to join and donate their time and money.
The quote above states that they are presenting “the truth.” My own bible teacher claimed that the “Bible Teach” book taught the truth, but she was not going to try to defend every statement or claim made in that book. Maybe simple sentences will be easier to defend, without making you doubt your own beliefs.
“I just know it’s the TRUTH.” (I heard that explanation a LOT)… and “Let’s put that one aside for now, and we’ll move on to the next paragraph…”
It’s no wonder these poor people are so confused. I can’t imagine dedicating my life to defending an organization that blatantly lies to me, constantly adjusts it’s teachings, and dangles Armageddon out for me as a reward for my hard work.
I’ve updated the article with images of the new “Teach Us” book.
Regarding the video on John Cedars YouTube channel; it was really great! Roughly the same information as here but with a message to the Governing Boday at the end.
You know, I think that one or two of the Governing Body members just may watch Lloyd’s videos, and especially this one (and the prank call to Tony!). But I really doubt that they would look at Lloyd as any kind of a friend or even a person offering helpful advice. There is no way that they would ever contact Lloyd or any ‘apostate’ for any reason but especially not for help in reforming their ‘cult’. No different that any government or major corporation stooping to listen to a citizen or customer but this is even more difficult. Imagine if say one of the GB did call JWSurvey for advice. What a news story that would make! It would destroy any semblance of God-given authority that they ever had! Every Witness would now be free to check apostate websites if the GB did that. There is no way that they could trust any apostate from divulging that amazingly stupid move. And what could anyone of us possibly tell them?!? “Hey, you’re wrong and change your dogma and doctrines?!?” Would we really want to help them in any way? That would be like some fraud artist who has ripped me off, calling me for advice. Guess what I’d tell him to do??? “Confess everything and seek the worst possible sentence from the courts” would be my advice.
It’s exciting to me seeing the big changes that the Watchtower Society has to make including huge cuts to printing and downsizing its Bethels. It’s even more exciting that there are people on the inside that are obviously giving out top secret information, not to their friends and family, but to “apostate” websites where it will do the most harm. This is how all major downfalls happen, from the inside. I’m sure though, that the members of the Governing Body will be the last to leave, if this does collapse in a big way. The most misquoted scripture that JWs love would apply most to them; “Where would we go?!?”
My jw spouse and I were talking about current events in the nation and then he said “there’s something going on , my mom just got an email with news that the Watchtower stopped all construction projects ”
That probably isn’t true but looks like there are rumors about lack of funds.
I thought it was interesting how in the new bible teach book they will have a guide to teach others their lingo. I wonder what words will be taught?
It’s Definitely moving more towards cult. If I were on the other side of the door, it would push me away.
http://thewatchtowerfiles.com/crisis/
This is an interesting read.
They are probably steering us back to the phonograph days…you don’t have to remember a presentation just take your ipad to the doors and we’ll do the talking for you.
My disfellowshipped son was at my house one day (this is in response to going back to phonograph days with iPads) and the witnesses came to the door and were explaining that if he wanted literature, to go to their jw.org website. So he says, “if that’s what I need to do to get information, I guess that renders your need for door to door work obsolete.” LMAO. She was speechless.
mr man or what so ever u called yourself don’t think because you have left the organization u wnt to lure people to join u in your act of apostasy. ..the owners of this this site an other participants are really apostasy that Jesus talk about in the bible. Jehovah God the one who created you this stupid an idiotic person trying to spoil his organization would without fail punished you.for trying to blackmail his witnesses here on earth. …young man or wat so ever u may called yourself. .your the most senseless human being I have ever meet. …may Jehovah judge you.
You were right first time, I call myself “Mr Man.” :)
Mr Waterofaducksback !
@Daniel. YOU AMAZE ME …. YOUR VOCABULARY SKILLS ARE AMAZING!!! …. YOU AREN’T BY ANY CHANCE the THEOCRATIC SCHOOL OVERSEER from my OLD CONGREGATION???
@pickledbrain, that is Funny LMAO
Oh Daniel, it seems you have already done some judging yourself.
The organization you speak of IS spoiled – from within. By all the hypocrites who attend the meetings and the full of hot air G.B.
Please learn how to use punctuation, as it is you, who looks stupid and idiotic.
@Daniel, you are certainly not alone… I have seen many others attack Cedars with the same illiterate language and nonsensical approach. You certainly are living up to your “name”.
That sounds very feasible . Great comment
Dude, you sound hammered, calling Lloyd Mr Man and ranting illogically. Nice spelling too.
mr good frnds….mr cedar is an agent of Satan the devil….he his using all his satanic acts to make people turn away from the truth…he did stand first in the truth because truth was not in his heart. ..don’t follow him pls….He MR CEDAR Lloyed EVANS IS AN APOSTASY don’t be deceive. ..pls…..let me tell u mr cedar no matter ur cunning tricks like your master the Devil….you would never succeed in turning the heart of faithful witnesses. ….an you can Never Stop Jehovah’s will From Accomplishing.
Welcome Daniel! By the way, if anyone does happen to see Satan the devil, can you remind him I’m missing a few paychecks? Being that guy’s agent is hard enough without not being paid. Thanks. :)
@DANIEL, you need to LISTEN to what CEDARS SAYS instead of being a SLAVE to the 7 PYGMIES OF BABYLON in NEW YORK!!!! HE is INTELLIGENT and NOT the DEVIL’s AGENT… READ the writing on the wall, “MINI MEANIE TICKLED PERSIANS”!!! This means that the BORGANIZATION is SOON going to heat up 7 TIMES HOTTER THAN USUAL but NO ANGELS will be there to SAVE YOU from feeling STUPID for BELIEVING THE LIES!! GET OUT while you can STILL save a SHRED OF DIGNITY!!
In the style of my mentor… :)
@P.B. MENTOR ??? WHAT WONDERFUL PERSON COULD THAT BE???
I’ll NEVER admit that it’s you, PB. You would get a big ego like Lloyd and start calling yourself “Mr. Man”.
@J.B . Reezner. I Apologise I have just realised I keep calling you P.B. !!… I BLAME the TRAUMATIC SHOCK of hearing the Theocratic School is going to be ABOLISHED!! This is SO UPSETTING ?to me that I might have to seek PROFESSIONAL HELP from Those who are a ‘HIDING PLACE from the WIND’ …. The SPIRITUAL ONES…. JACK DANIELS & JOHNNIE WALKER…. These are NEWLY APPOINTED Governing Body Members !! I know this as it has been LEAKED in a Letter from Fred Franz to JOHNNIE & JACK.!!
No problem, PB. You can call me anything but “late for dinner”.
I’m sure the TMS fizzling out IS devastating to you. In fact, as I read your comment, I imagined you giving talks with the same FRENZIED tone of your comment, haha.
Pitch: Crazy High
Pace: Supersonic
Modulation: Modu-what?
Once again, why do the ‘true believers’ of Jehovah’s Witnesses, or any other kind of religion for that matter, have the absolute worst writing and comprehension skills without being totally illiterate?!?
Is there a direct relationship between education, intelligence and a belief system in some kind of a hard-core cult?
@Daniel. WELL if CEDARS is from SATAN … Then SATANIC Supporters are better WELL EDUCATED than JEHOVAHS Witnesses like yourself Daniel . !!!! & MORE INTELLIGENT!! DANIEL .., YOU Don’t Take the EMBLEMs by any chance??? I can’t decide whether you or ANTHONY MORRIS is the more INTELLIGENT??? …. IT IS SUCH A CLOSE THING!!! Perhaps you could give me your VALUED ??? UMmm OPINION!!!
Daniel: Thanks for your insightful and well-written comments. Your input is appreciated here.
I wonder if you feel as free to express your feelings and your fears, to your brothers in the congregation. You seem upset.
I hope you will subscribe to this blog, so you can keep up on all the lies that are being published on jwsurvey.org.
Thanks for warning us about Mr. Cedars.
It’s Mr Man. My name is Mr Man.
See what I mean, Pickled Brain? We’ve lost Lloyd. Soon, HE will be trying to issue commandments to us from way up on HIS ivory tower. But I’m not going for it. I mean, I might sacrifice a few goats to him, but THAT’S IT. Any more than that would just be crazy…
@JB . I can think of 7 PYGMY & Midget SHEEP I would like to NAIL to a CROSS? … Sorry that’s a bit Harsh of me … I meant ‘ Nail to a STAKE ‘ & SACRIFICE to Lloyd !
Yikes PB, my thing was funny, but your thing was just disturbing, lol…
He’s da man
Ok, Mr Man. Where do we send the money, now that we’re all
Under your control?
Seriously, you will NEVER know how much your hard work and intelligence and dignified way of bringing the truth about the “truth” to light is appreciated.
Please accept my sincere gratitude.
Daniel, you’re obviously experiencing great pain and anguish to post how you have. Take time to pause, reflect and rest. It’s okay to do that — how else do we have the energy to go forth anew?
This forum is a safe space for people to connect and be compassionate about what it means to be human — to grow and to learn. Hope you keep exploring here and all other forums you may wish to explore.
Keep a kind attitude to yourself and your journey. And respect others who are trying to do the same. Peace to you.
EverydayExplorer, I appreciate your appropriate response to Daniel’s comments. Being sarcastic and condescending to others doesn’t serve any purpose.
Daniel! Did you play the drunk old gold miner from blazing saddles ? Because that was some genuine frontier gibberish .
Daniel, what is the latest grade you’ve completed in school? My seven year old Son has far better penmanship than you.
First of all, your blind castigation of Mr. Evans hold no merit. Your attacks are hateful and full of ignorant and empty statements with no value.
Also, if you really believed what you are stating then why would you even be on this site? Doesn’t the WTBS still teach against viewing ‘apostate’ sites?
Daniel, do you feel you are above the GB’s patronizing control and so you can view this site?
I don’t think you do, you have doubts and it is causing you to lash out uncontrollably. Daniel, you are at a crossroads, slow down and open your mind to knowledge.
After all, if your faith is so strong then nothing you could read will break it, it will only make it stronger.
I laughed when I first read your attacks. You are either inebriated or uneducated, maybe even both.
Cedars, keep up the great work!
…Lloyd you Evil Cunning mr….. mAN!
I am a serving elder, and this letter has not been sent to the Jw.org inbox. I think this is a very well written hoax, by someone who has mastered the language and syntax used in society letters. It’s clever, I’ll say that. I’d say it’s an experiment to see how many R&F are whispering about all this is advance of the AGM….. Of course I might be wrong…..
Of course it hasn’t CC! I’m an elder too but the whole point of it being on here is that it has been LEAKED…not even available to the elders yet. Heck, even the Annual Meeting hasn’t been held yet so how are you expecting a letter planned to be delivered AFTER the event to arrive in your inbox BEFORE the event?!
I’m still waiting for any confirmation on the Bethel cutbacks though. All Bethelites I know (and I use the term loosely) are being very tight lipped.
Can either of you view the pre-letter that is available for Elders now?
(Congregation -> Documents -> Letters)
Although it doesn’t confirm the details of the leaked announcement, it does confirm that another letter and video will be posted after the annual meeting:
“Dear Brothers:
On Saturday, October 3, 2015, after 3:00 p.m. in New York, a letter to all congregations will be posted in the “Letters” section of jw.org. A related video will be posted in the “Event Media” section of jw.org.
It is our desire that, where possible, the letter be read to the congregation and the video be played for the congregation at the first congregation meeting after its receipt.
In many cases, this will be at the conclusion of the Watchtower Study on October 4, 2015.
Of course, in some parts of the world, the next congregation meeting will be the Service Meeting during the week of October 5, 2015.”
Daniel,Daniel,Daniel!(3 times for emphasis) see i was sort of paying attention…..GO home and pet a lion theres a good sheep hugs and kisses ruthlee
@ANON
It’s just come through now so I’ve sent a copy to Lloyd as confirmation. He can they decide to put it on here for you to see for yourself. I’ve not personally posted it because I don’t want to get this site involved in any copyright issues but the admin on this site will know what to do now they have a copy. Cheers!
Please tell me why as a serving elder promoting this woman hating cult..are you on this site?
I would appreciate if you drop the judgmental tone. There are any number of reasons why someone might continue to serve as an elder despite being awake. Apart from anything else it would be impossible to get the amount of leaked information we’re currently getting if we didn’t have SOME on the inside in higher positions. Please remember that Watchtower is a cruel cult that threatens huge ramifications for those that leave, and it is not your place or mine to judge people who choose to exit in their own way and time.
Point taken Cedars…its hard for someone who has been sorely treated by appointed men …including my own father..to understand sometimes how they can keep thier cognitive disonance and be a force for good…I will retreat from the site.
There’s no need to go off in a sulk. You are more than welcome to keep commenting as your insights are appreciated. However, I don’t take kindly to posters behaving judgmentally with other posters, especially on such matters as this. I’m glad you understand that your comment was inappropriate, and that the way we were treated by the organization is never an excuse to turn on each other – including those of us who are still inside.
@Idontknowwhattodo, please don’t stop commenting. I have made angry retorts at times and thankfully most of the time, they get flagged and never published. I learned something too from this.
Thanks for the defence Lloyd. Anyone that has been on this site long enough, knows very well my reasons for being on here and the type of person I claim to be. At the moment, for obvious reasons I can’t declare my real name, although I think my Avatar does me justice!
@Anonymous. Just checking now and I can’t see anything new yet. The last letters are dated:
04/09/2015 Literature Shipping Schedule for 2016
01/09/2015 School for Congregation Elders
If no one else puts a link here first, when it finally filters through I will remove all ‘encrusted hidden info’ in the PDF document (you can never be too careful as there might be tracking codes embedded in there) and then post a link to it via WeTransfer.com as per usual (links are valid for 7 days).
My last comment seems to have disappeared into the black hole of t’internet so apologies if it later appears and this is duplicated.
@Lloyd. Thanks for the defence although I don’t view it as a “higher position” I’m in; I’m worn out from a hard week of secular work and then it’s a full weekend of congregational activity. I don’t think I’d do it if I were paid to! :)
@IDKWTD Those that know me (as well as they can do on here) know full well my reasons for being on here and the person I claim to be. I suggest you read my other comments to bring yourself up to speed. No offence taken.
@ANONYMOUS. I have just had a look but there are no new letters. The latest are:
04/09/2015 Literature Shipping Schedule for 2016
01/09/2015 School for Congregation Elders
If no one else puts it on here before, when I see it become available I’ll put a link on here via WeTransfer. If there’s any others that you are specifically after then just let me know and I’ll post links (they last for 7 days via WeTransfer). Same goes for you too Lloyd but I imagine that you have better connections than me who can get you the info faster.
Well, let me see if I can embarrass myself by sticking my nose into this. My first impression was that, although Average Joe’s “Reply” button was pressed, Idontknowhatodo was replying to CuriousConfused, whose imaginative theory about the letter possibly being a hoax sent him into a different category for Idontknowhatodo than the other elders here who contribute to this site. Of course, I could be totally wrong (it wouldn’t be the first time).
Either way, Idontknowhatodo, I hope you decide to stay, and I hope CuriousConfused does too. We all believed irrational stuff until enough evidence snapped us out of it.
In summary: Don’t go!
Thank you Cedars! Your writings and other participants have changed my life. I have an insight to this religion that I did not have for over 25 years of suffering in it. Now I understand why I had such deep seated pain when I sat in my KH chair. I’m free now.
Cedar, Any mother and father would be proud of you!!!
Congratulations!!
The truth always win!!
El Kato
I noticed this in the letter
”Since the workbook will not include a section for announcements, congregations will be informed of monthly literature offers by means of letters from the branch office.”
I presume then that there will be no more field service highlights. I think this section has been an embarrassment for a while, with nothing of any substance being reported. Maybe this is a chance for them to get rid of that section.
Depending on how things go maybe why it won’t be printed . So much up in the air it seems right now , they maybe printing nothing at all .
I’ve watched in amusement as the ‘good experiences’ over the years have degraded from “we discussed many things and when I showed him answers from the bible he agreed to study and now we’re studying twice a week. He is making fine progress and wants to be baptized at an upcoming assembly” to “they answered the door and when they realized that I was a JW they didn’t slam the door in my face”. I seriously doubt that I was he only person who noticed this decline and I can see where regaling experiences like this would be demoralizing rather than encouraging.
WOW! The bad news for the Org keeps coming, boy are they in decline. I spent many, many hours getting my talks right for the T M S never ever thought it would come to an end.
@ Daniel on, leave this site immediately, you will have been reported to the elders in your local congregation! Lol or maybe not? Keep visiting and develop a relationship with us ‘apostates ‘ you might just learn something
can anyone get on this site? I tried but it said I do not have permission. I copied this just off the google page.
Some changes announced at Bethel – JW News, Encouragement …
jwtalk.net › … › JW News, Encouragement, & Public Information
2 days ago – 20 posts – 15 authors
Page 1 of 2 – Some changes announced at Bethel – posted in JW News, Encouragement, & Public Information: … Build projects will be stopped and a reduction of full-time servants will be made. … All construction projects put on hold. … The Britain branch project has been in the pipeline for a long time.
Daniel.
You are becoming an apostate yourself. The watchtower of
July 15/ 2011 says “Apostates are mentally diseased and we
must be determined to avoid them”.
By visiting this site Daniel you are renouncing the words of
your religion. Be careful Daniel you are in danger of becoming
a full blown card carrying apostate like me. Which would not
please your leaders. because then you would start to think
for yourself, and realise that they are false prophets, liars.
and hypocrites.
Mr Cedar did not lure me, I had already apostasised,
renounced W,T, lies before I knew Mr, Cedar, Daniel,
Your rejection of W,T, counsel could be the first step on
the road to you freedom, I hope so. Best wishes Ted.
@ daniel on, stop waisting money paying to be online.You know full well the gov body need this money alot more than internet servers.
@JB. I like your reasoning mate! Let’s hope Lloyd or one of his team members can find a little time to install some WordPress Forum software on here, then we can chat more freely (even an off-topic section).
However, I realise that time is limited and that would take things like forum moderators etc. so maybe it is not practical at this stage.
It might solve the problem of trolls though as you could make downloads of letters etc available only to registered users.
Would love to be able to chat to some of you on things that are causing problems… like the whole shunning thing however I will happily tag along with things how they are until that time because each day I find more help on here for boosting my realisation that I am not alone anymore.
I think we’re definitely moving in the direction of having some kind of forum. People are increasingly treating JWsurvey as a community and it would be nice to be more accommodating in that regard. We’re just limited in how much manpower we have, not to mention the technical side. But I’m optimistic we will be able to overcome those hurdles eventually.
:) In the meantime keep doing what you do because it’s awesome.
@Cedars & Everyone on this site. Has anyone seen the MOST DISGUSTING 5 minute & 20 second interview of an Ex-PRIEST newly posted on TV.JW.ORG & This EX-PRIEST became a JEHOVAHS Witness because of the WAY THE JW Organisation HANDLES CHILD ABUSE & this Ex-Priest Loves the TRANSPARENCY of JW Organisation!!’…. WHAT THE NERVE???? I NEARLY DROPPED MY BOTTLE of PURIFIED SPRING WATER on the FLOOR!!!
PB, that’s disgusting! I keep thinking the GB are 100% believers of their own malarkey, but there keeps being so much evidence of clear, unscrupulous manipulation perpetrated by them, I’m starting to wonder…
Maybe one day they all simply looked at each other and admitted that they ALL know it’s a bunch of rubbish, and then decided that they all have a pretty good life, so why not just keep this thing rolling. I’m still leaning toward total delusion, but, who knows…
Almost as bad as GB Jackson telling the entire World “It would be presumptuous to say Jehovah is only using us!” Their ability to lie has historical roots dating back to Russell’s time, our Brothers in Eastern Europe saw their lies and broke ties after several attempts by the Watchtower’s arrogant Whites to tell the Romanian Brothers how to think!’
I think their courage shocked the Governing Body and showed the Boys in New York they are cowards while the tough Romanians proved they could stand firm unlike that “well greased weather vane changing its tune or lying before the World because their afraid to confess their true beliefs!
The Forum here surpasses that stale, crusty outfit known as JWN, how many times have you ever read articles like the one John Cedars posted above? You wont, why, because Simon and his wife Anguard are not journalist or writers, their goal is to spend the least money while letting everyone else make them money.
When people ask questions they get people posting like “Outlaw”, he’s the Mute that can’t write, he cuts and pastes photos and that’s his high quality contribution.
When Lady Lee left along with many others, it was time to bail! If John was to make a Forum or message board, he would blow the doors off the Bully of their forum “Simon Say’s or you are out of here!”. The vast majority of quality writers and seasoned veterans visit Cedar’s because we get real information.
What’s a joke is people are taking the material from jwsurvey and posting it on JWN’s dusty message board, they do more damage than good people! One might think they might help but there’s a reason why men like Ray Franz and others avoided that Animal House, it has no quality plus everyone that had the skills to help have faded or left.
thanks Cedars we would all look forward to that ruthlee
@Average Joe: That sounds great. I appreciate your comments too, my friend. I hope it happens before Pickled Brain and I end up on the chopping block, lol. In my defense, all of our nonsensical banter is HIS fault (even when I start it).
@Cedars: I will look forward to that. I hope it can happen without much more of a burden on you, John Hoyle and the others making this site possible. JWsurvey IS a community! Even if you had less-social intentions for this site, we’re just a standard bunch of run-of-the-mill human beings with an insuppressible need to jibber-jabber sometimes with like-minded folk. However, I honestly doubt I would venture off to some other site to seek that. The combination of social interaction WITH the brilliantly produced articles and videos emanating from this site seems to make it–in my opinion–the place to be. I’m not being a kiss-a**. That’s how I really feel about it.
@J.B .Reezner . I am glad you told Mr Average the ‘Barter ‘is MY Humble FAULT. !!
because I Take Full Humble Responsibility !!
This is Because I am the Most Humble & Most Modest Person in the ‘JW WORLD?’ …. ALL Becsuse of my being Taught & Corrected by my Theocratic School Overseer in the soon Defunct ‘ THEOCRATIC MINISTRY SCHOOL! I
What attracts me to this blog is it’s simplicity. I hate blogs that are overfilled with things all over the page. They just look cluttered.
Has anyone watched Karl on youtube that Cedars put on his tweet the other day? He’s hilarious & I don’t think that he is even trying to be funny. I love his accent, I think it’s a little bit Irish or something.
@J.B .Reezner . I am glad you told Mr Average the ‘Barter ‘is MY Humble FAULT. !!
because I Take Full Humble Responsibility !!
This is Because I am the Most Humble & Most Modest Person in the ‘JW WORLD?’ …. ALL Becsuse of my being Taught & Corrected by my Theocratic School Overseer in the soon Defunct ‘ Theocratic Ministry School ! This ‘School has made me MORE Humble than EVEN Our ….Most HUMBLE Anthony Morris!
I am Humbly Ever Grateful to it ! This is From your Most Humble Friend .. PICKLES
Well said, PB! I have that in common with you. Humility is one of the many fine qualities that I possess in abundance!
@J.B. Reezner. Humble , Apologies I meant ‘BANTER’ not ‘BARTER’!
PB, I must admit, seriously, I thought you were using some UK expression that I wasn’t familiar with– rather than me just firing up a couple of brain cells and realizing that you clearly meant ‘banter’. Jeez, I’m dumb. I humbly admit that. :)
Idontknowhatodo
Non of us enjoy being chastised, but if we’ve made an error
of judgement (Which of course we all do) especially when
passionate feelings are involved. Then it can be a learning
experience for us.
This is a wonderfully balanced and enlightened site. There’s
no inferior view of women, no homophobia, xenophobia or
any other unreasonable prejudices. It would.be a great shame
if you left it . And it’s clear that not only your comments,
but you yourself are valued here. Best wishes, Ted.
Idontknowwhattodo.
Non of us enjoy being chastised, but if we’ve made an error
of judgement (Which of course we all do) especially when
passionate feelings are involved. Then it can be a learning
experience for us.
This is a wonderfully balanced and enlightened site. There’s
no inferior view of women, no homophobia, xenophobia or
any other unreasonable prejudices. It would be a great shame
if you left it . And it’s clear that not only your comments,
but you yourself are valued here. Best wishes, Ted.
And now from Canada…
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/blog/spiritual-shepherds
I tried to watch this…. those poor little girls. I just couldn’t continue on.
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/blog/spiritual-shepherds
JJ, we had the Elders in Creep Side tell our Congregation the Society need’s more money so they can build more Kingdom Halls and help the huge influx of publishers. Are you Elders teaching this lie too? Theocratic Warfare is alive and well, love their lies!
@JASON. I’m certainly not. I refuse to mention any donating arrangement in my talks or so-called “need for funds”. The Organised book and other publications slate the churches enough for passing the plate around or guilt-tripping people into contributing but this constant mentioning of money (how much it is per publisher etc) is no different at all in my opinion.
I prefer to use what little money I have to help out my friends and brothers & sisters locally, take them out for meals, coffee etc and that way the bonds of friendship are strengthened too.
If this truly is Jah’s organisation then he will make sure it continues without the need for blackmailing or guilt-tripping the flock into giving funds that get used for goodness knows what. Even the Local Needs box money gets sent to the WTS after the account passes a certain amount so you can’t even be sure that your money given gets used for the local congregation.
Sad times.
@LOL
To whom was that comment directed? If it was meant to be me, you would you mind elaborating please? ;)
Oh yeah, Jason Jensen, it’s always about the need for more Kingdom Halls! They’ve got my mother, wife and my remaining JW friends convinced that’s where all the money goes.
I use to have a terrible fear of speaking before audiences, by the time I started College the Theocratic Ministry School helped me get straight As in Speech 1, Speech 2 “Group Discussion”, all the fear of speaking in public was gone all because we had the best teacher. He worked at Bethel and was arrested during World War 2 for Neutrality.
He was part of the Watchtower’s Radio Station taking live questions back in the 1930-40s, sad to think the Watchtower is taking away the only program that actually contributed to the skills of their publishers.
If you examine the issue deeper, is it possible their elimiating the TMS because their trying to seperate the Elder – Laity Class? This is how the Clergy-Laity Class stareted, sad to think most Witnesses are not able to see the numbers Cedars posted.
If you all were to guess what’s behind their long planned strategic move, what’s your biggest conspiracy theory why their failing? We hear this all the time “We need more money to build more Kingdom Halls and Branches, Oh Brothers, Jehovah is speeding up the Harvest so don’t have a tight fist!”
We know that’s not true but the average J.W.’s bucket-head brian can’t see their religion has nothing to do with Christ or the original Good News, great work Cedars!
Interesting ideas regarding a separation of classes, Jason. And that sounds great about having a communications pro for a teacher. My first TMS overseer was a light bulb salesman. Ok, I’d like to follow that up with some interesting episodes of ineptitude, but honestly, he was one of the best speakers I’ve ever known, and come to think of it, he was a helluva successful light bulb salesman too. But the other TMS overseers I had after that left much to be desired.
The GB seems to be focused like a laser on amassing as much money as possible. I know they have long been providing ways for unwitting members to donate all of their worldly possessions in creative ways, but something has shifted so that now money has blatantly become priority number ONE. They’re slashing and burning everything that doesn’t help them to maximize their profits.
I think cutting the TMS in favor of program that more directly emphasizes the urgent need to be proselytizing simply follows suit with any other financially motivated changes they are making. They need JW’s out there finding more convert$.
For me, the main question is, “What happened?” Why has money become the ONLY thing motivating them? I know the sexual abuse cases factor into it, but I can’t help doubting that that’s the only reason. A thought that crosses my mind sometimes (surely not the first to think it) is that the GB members really do seem to be simpleminded people themselves (I know I’m not breaking new ground with that assessment), and maybe there are some sharp lawyers and financial managers in the mix feeding off of the Org who have convinced the GB that the Org is going to COLLAPSE if they don’t act quickly to cut spending and bring more revenue in. This wouldn’t change the fact that the GB is made up of disgusting, soulless, heartless creeps deserving a cruel fate, but it may factor into there motivations.
But I don’t know. I’m not much of a conspiracy theorist. After being duped so thoroughly by the Org for so long, I now usually START with the assumption that my ideas are wrong, and then just try to wait until I see unassailable evidence for one thing or the other.
@JB Reezner. I believe your assessment of the situation facing the GB is very Accurate & you are showing more insight than you are giving yourself. YES the 7 GB members are SIMPLEMINDED as you only have to see & hear Stephen LETTS Or Anthony Morris or even Samuel Herd ,etc give a Talk ! IT to me is JUVENILE Speech & even David SPLANE reasoning on the GENERATION Doctrine is So FULL of HOLES in Logical Analysis that it is bordering on the Ridiculous!
Then you mention CHILD ABUSE… Which AGAIN you are More Correct than you Realise. When Geoffrey JACKSON mentioned at the Australian Royal Commission that the GB might contribute to a General Fund to COMPENSATE CHILD ABUSE VICTIMS as I have said on a previous post if £100,000 minimum is paid to the at LEAST 24,000 kNown VICTIMS on a DATABASE held at BROOKLYN as Revealed on PANORAMA then that is a MINIMUM of ….. £2.4 BILLION!! It Could be MORE !! The LAWYERS & ACCOUNTANTS have seen the WRITING on the WALL & Have Advised the GB Accordingly!
Also the buildings of 170 Remote Translation Offices at cost of 1 to 3 million Dollars each which could cost about 400 Million Dollars for such OBSCURE Languages with such Little Return in number of followers who could DONATE MONEY is FINANCIAL SUICIDE !!
The 7 GB Members are PANICKING because Like ANY Business… That OVER EXPANDS into BUILDING WORK TOO QUICKLY with not the Increase in FOOTFALL in Customers .. Sorry I meant Disciples… The GB HAVE To SCALE BACK as they have OVER COMMITTED themselves. They have been TOO EMOTIONAL & NOW The FINANCIAL REALITIES are Hitting Home … Including the Millions WASTED on a TV STATION!!
Thank you very much for that very interesting and thoughtful reply, PB! I don’t know how I missed it!? Sorry about that my friend. It’s either due to my pea brain, or maybe this comment was in Comment Tartarus (which is a REAL thing, lol) for a few days before it popped up. Okay, it was probably my pea brain.
First,thanx as always to this site! I too was very shy& self~conscious so the t m school forced me,to I guess get over it,and improved handling things in school,too.so…so much for the creative practice plays…oh my mom is going to be SO disappointed! She still is trapped & thinks I should pray about coming back! She was thrilled when they said u could use props, & I gotta share this… She once wrapped an ace bandage,& limped up on stage,well of course one ” older bro” from front row hops up to help her,yep she would have made it good on Broadway cause I don’t know how she held it together,me (teenager) hanging in the lobby,not sure wether to laugh or cry! So I think they’re trying to suck all the fun outta the meetings & assembly’s no more volunteering in hoagie lines.my moms in her 80s now,I’m not sure that these changes are enough,she seems to think I live outside a bubble,& I should pray about this.im thank~ful she does still talk,not a lot,but I’m curious the other eve she chatted awhile ,& didn’t really bring up “how close to the end” we are….then the next day,my real sister(husbands an E)called and chatted,telling me if I remembered so&isolated they weren’t doing good (as to meetings) that her husband was calling on them.the thing is she normally only calls me 1 time a year,to remind me of something(in April). So what’s going on are they trying to scrounge the faders back or push away& label the something??
Oh my god. tms was terrible, i cant even go in to it. So. Much. Time. Anxiety. Uselessness. I am so over this sect/ cult. With my entire still in family, friends, acquaintances I am at the point of “figure it out yourself. Im not going to do it for you. You havent done any real mental work in decades.” Although I could only skim the letter bc my brain literally can not handle the sentence structure and terminology of wtbts any longer, I do appreciate the insider that provides these updates and that is struggling secretly inside the sect.
@ Vivian . YOU are NOT ALONE! The feelings you Expressed about the ANXIETIES of the TMS is a COMMON One Especially among sisters .!! I Have had some AWFUL Theocratic School Overseers who CANNOT PRONOUNCE WORDS Correctly & who have had DIABOLICAL GRAMMAR & VOCABULARY Skills & they are COUNSELLING Poor SISTERS who have SPENT WEEKS of RESEARCH & WORRYING themselves SENSELESS only to be Given a ‘W’ on their Slip by an ELDER who PRONOUNCED the words ‘Nothing & Something ‘ As ‘ NUFFINK & SUMTHINK’… & their use of PAST, PRESENT & FUTURE TENSES were APALLING !! Many of these Theocratic School Overseers Left SCHOOL at 14 & had NO PROPER EDUCATION & they were COUNSELLING People.. Believe me many Did MORE DAMAGE than GOOD! I will ADMIT there was the Occasional Good Theocratic School Overseer BUT they were in the MINORITY !!
Hi. I tried to access the new books on jw.org. Can’t find them. Can someone help me in finding them? Thanks.
jeff.needle@gmail.com
I don’t think they are out yet Jeff. the letter isn’t due to be read for a week or so yet so they will probably show up after that.
Just got a chance to watch the video. Awesome. Great job Lloyd. I loved the message to the GB at the end.
Question: my comments take about 2 days to show up on the blog. Anything I can do on my end to improve that?
Idontknowwhattodo,
Hang in there. Remember reproofs from someone who cares is a good thing. Learn from it, get past it and move forward. We all need reminders to bring us back to earth now and then.
I’m physically inside the borg and I have to say that when I read the part where talks about the dissapearing of the Ministry School, I wanted to cry because I gave an speech last meeting and I’m thinking this is going to be the last one. The only part I loved about being witness… gone, so one more reason to leave.
David, the reason why we were all part of the collective is because of our love for God. I think most of us have not lost that love but have awoken to the fact Jehovah isn’t the org. I pray all the time but I feel my prayers are free once again. Free to express myself to my creator about matters that concern me and things I want to express gratitude for. I have stopped going through the ritual of mentioning the brothers and the elders and the building and the world wide work….. I haven’t felt this free since I started going to church as a child. A child who walked into a protestant church and felt like God reached out to me. Somewhere in the last few years I felt that connection slip away. I was baptised as a witness in 95. I now know I will never go back to an organised religion. Once I can pluck up the courage to walk away from the WT I will stop being anxious. However I still have a daughter and a granddaughter trapped in there and I won’t leave them. I am inactive and to some degree still shunned over my daughter and son being df’d. Our cong. was cruel and decided I bore some of the blame for my daughters fall ‘from grace’. She was reinstated and now they expect me to be all happy clappy. But my eyes are open…. to quote a movie… You take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill—you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I’m offering is the truth. Nothing more.
Don’t be sad. We all learned valuable things even if we can’t see it right now. I learned to speak in front of a hundred plus people as you yourself did. That’s a skill many do not have. It’s a small blessing we can take away with us from an organisation that has taken so much from us.
@Tara . EXCELLENT COMMENTS & GOOD REASONING… I Feel the same way as you & in similar circumstances which I am sure MANY that read this site face the same situation.
@Cedars & Everyone on this site . What I have found as in Lloyds situation with his FATHER & any of us with Relatives in the Organisation. ANYONE who Has GENUINE QUESTIONS who even MILDLY Disagrees with the GB & DARES to VOICE it to another JEHOVAHS WITNESS or GOD FORBID?? … Mention the Reasonable Doubt in a Watchtower… THEN WATCH the SHUNNING BEGIN & ELDERS HAUL you into the BACK ROOM & your INVITE to Certain Social Occasions DWINDLE !! … THIS is CLASSIC SIGNS of a CULT !! When I gave TALKS on the THEOCRATIC MINISTRY SCHOOL I had FREE REIGN to slip in Craftily a DUBIOUS LINE of Mild Apostate Reasoning !! BUT NOW the NEW FORMAT is about STRICTER CONTROLS of what is SAID from the PLATFORM!!
:)
@ Vivian. I AM LAUGHING at MYSELF!! … I Spelt ‘ APALLING WRONG!! It should have Two ‘ P’s in it not One!!!!! … I must … ‘ WORK’ on my SPELLING!!
Now I Know why I was Never School Overseer & why I am COUNSELLING MYSELF I must …’ W’ on TOO MUCH USE of CAPITAL LETTERS
I’m a bit skeptical about the letter too. It didn’t sound “right” to me either, but I initially put that down to years of withdrawal from Watchtowerese. It could be real or it could be a hoax, I can see arguments either way. The point about not printing unnecessary books sounds fake to me, whereas dropping the dates on the magazines sounds authentic. Hard to tell.
I will recommend a very nice book for those who want to live the Jehovah witnesses quiet, and they don’t know how. It is very helpful book even for those who have left and still struggle to get theirs life back. it is small and not to expensive from Amazon or chapters indigo Canada.( THE NAME IS Exiting the JW cult: A HEALING HANDBOOK For current & former Jehovah witnesses)
Reply •
Have to tell you all this as I found it quite amusing. I made a comment further up about not having a part on the school for ages due to ‘my face not fitting in’ or something such. Last night as I lay me down to sleep my phone rang. I didn’t know the number so didn’t pick up. However, a message was left…. It appears I am suddenly a householder at the end of October! re what I said about daughter being reinstated and now all ‘happy clappy’. I personally think it is due to the fact the sisters husband – an elder is the one I gave a verbal reproof too regarding the way I was treated after the df’ing. Suddenly they have noticed I am fading out and it looks like the ‘nice card, the encourage card’ is being used. Lol well this might be my very last talk if things go down. I don’t want to except this assignment. But I found it amusing non the less.
Tara i love the way you say your prayers are free again. That is where i am at just now.Still running with the hares and hunting with the hounds but this is getting too much and too exhausting. I can say in retrospect my prayers did not get two feet off the ground whilst a mental captive. Now i feel free in my head and heart and actually feel at peace with the almighty. I know not all will accept my path thats aok but for some of us we want a faith just not this one.I have thought if they reform some of the nastier aspects of the religion would we come back ? If they suddenly actually used their Bible in the place of all the gumpfh would it make a difference? Actually , no because too much damage is done. What is done IS done.
I agree Ruthlee. I try to forgive… It’s just who I am but I also believe in unconditional love and sadly I have come to the conclusion that in the ‘truth’ there is no such thing. I have friends there that I want to love unconditionally but I know that when the chips are down only a few of them will love me unconditionally back and those will still be looking over their shoulders in fear of being caught. My prayers are mine though. I still have that freedom of thought and the WT have no right to them.
Some message in the video Lloyd to the GB, I don’t think they’ll change either in their due time.
I’ll add to the speculation about this letter’s authenticity. I think this letter is a hoax, but possibly based on an actual letter or some real changes that are forthcoming. IMO, the writing style doesn’t appear typical of GB or Service committee letters. The new program names–treasures and gems and such– are odd.
One sentence was repeated, more or less here: “A video has been prepared to help you to become familiar with the format of the Life and Ministry Meeting. It is now available on JW Broadcasting in English. Please watch it if you are able to do so. This video will help you to become familiar with the format of the Life and Ministry Meeting.”
Unless this redundancy was simply missed by a proofreader (unlikely) I’d say that in itself may be reason to question the legitimacy of this letter. I also think it unlikely they would publish the OM book online.
Just my .02.
You’re forgetting this is a leaked letter, so it could be an early draft rather than the finished, proofread version. In any case, we shall see. I’m feeling quite confident.
Sorry I doubted your source! I checked JW.orgy today and saw the OM book and the other new items. I guess I shouldn’t doubt the speed at which the chariot can pivot!
Finn Sawyer,
Looks like it’s real enough!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
I used to put so much effort into my assignments in the Theocratic ministry school. I would sometimes not be able to eat before the meeting. I could not concentrate on anything that was before ‘my’ talk, often getting hot and bothered. I was always anxious that the information would benefit the brothers and would practice the info over and over. I even sometimes, if appropriate, would practice the scenario on the doors! Thankfully I usually got a ‘G’ which was a small reward for all the hard work.
At least my training gave me the confidence to speak before an audience. It also enabled me to think and reason on things. Doing research for myself has in its own way helped me to escape from the ‘Lie’.
Perhaps that is why things are apparently being changed.
The ability to think for oneself is detrimental to one’s staying in the cult.
Cedars, considering the fact that “the Borg” is always seeking something “new” to get excited about, and considering the frequent changes that are occuring with rapid fashion (the trimming of publications, the “New Light”, etc) are there anythings that you believe the GB will NEVER change (that maybe they would like to but they dare not because it would spell the deathnell of the organization)?
You should do a separate post just on this topic of what doctrines and practices do you believe the GB will NEVER change, modify or get rid of.
I don’t think JW’s will EVER get rid of their stance on 607 BCE. They are more likely to scrap the need to NOT take blood transfusions before getting rid of 607 BCE- and they will definitely continue to require members to refuse blood transfusions.
Thanks – good stuff.
Been out 15 years and still interesting to see how the organization evolves its cultish methods.