2014 was a big year for Jehovah’s Witnesses, and not just because it marked 100 years of the “short period of time” since the commencement of the ‘last days’ in 1914, with Armageddon nowhere in sight. (Rev 12:12)
Last year saw the organization take a further leap into the unknown by unveiling its JW Broadcasting initiative, bringing the “global brotherhood” up close and personal with its leaders for the first time.
The same year saw the announcement of a new donation arrangement whereby kingdom halls would surrender their financial autonomy and yield to a form of stealth tithing, with each congregation pledging to donate a fixed monthly amount. District overseers were also shown the door as Watchtower’s hierarchy was streamlined.
While all this was happening, an ever-growing number of current, former, and unbaptized Jehovah’s Witnesses – the silent majority – were doing something that was impossible before the age of the internet. They were quietly assembling online, and using a global survey they spoke with one voice of their dissatisfaction with Watchtower teachings and practices.
5,166 took part in the 2014 Global Survey – a huge increase compared with the more modest numbers from previous surveys (1,118 in 2011, 1,488 in 2012, and 1,751 in 2013).
Download the 2014 results PDF
Such an impressive sample has gifted us a revealing insight into the thoughts and feelings of the burgeoning ex-Jehovah’s Witness online community, which includes many active Witness “lurkers” who seek information and resources minus the Watchtower spin.
Here are just a few stats for you to ponder…
- 229 out of 5,166 voters (4%) said they agree with all Watchtower teachings and practices (only 138 of these were active Witnesses)
- 16 voters claimed to be active bethelites
- 117 voters claimed to be serving elders
- 1,599 disfellowshipped/disassociated persons took part in the survey, of which 42% claimed to still be religious
- 94% of disfellowshipped/disassociated persons are happier since leaving
- 1,603 out of 4,242 baptized voters (38%) claim to have been baptized at 18 or older
- 1,687 inactive/faders voted, of which 63% claimed to experience preemptive shunning
- 56% of inactive ones claimed to experience marital or family problems as a result of their decision
- 771 voted who were never baptized, of which 64% had family members who are JWs and 67% consider Jehovah’s Witnesses to be a cult
- 39% of elders expressed regret over a decision reached at a judicial committee
- 78% of voters think that Jehovah’s Witnesses have a problem with child abuse
- 419 voters claimed to be former-Witness victims of child abuse
- 40% of active Witness voters said they would secretly or openly accept a blood transfusion
- 237 voters said they would let their child die for want of a blood transfusion, only 167 of which were active Witnesses
- 17% of active JWs who voted believe elders are appointed by holy spirit
- 32% of elders who voted believe elders are appointed by holy spirit
- 67% of voters do not believe Watchtower should enjoy charitable or tax exempt status
- 84% of voters do not donate anything to Watchtower
- 81% of voters have heard of a Jehovah’s Witness committing or attempting suicide
- 33% of voters believe Watchtower should undergo reform, while a further 42% believe it should be dissolved entirely
- 21% of Witness voters believe apostates are bitter and vindictive, as opposed to 69% who believe some may have legitimate concerns
- 169 active JW voters consider themselves to be apostates
- 52% of those who call themselves apostates say they love Jehovah’s Witnesses, while only 2% (58 individuals) say they hate all JWs
- 53% of active JWs object to all forms of shunning, while 11% say they are shunning someone who is either disfellowshipped or inactive
- Evolution as a false teaching was the least disliked Watchtower teaching, with only 62% voting against it
- The second least-disliked Watchtower teaching was the rejection of Christmas as a pagan teaching, with only 63% voting against it
- The most disliked Watchtower teaching was the prohibition on higher education (96%) followed closely by shunning and bedroom laws for married couples (both at 94%)
To help better digest this year’s figures, new JWsurvey team member Kyle Racki has kindly produced an infographic for some selected stats. If you would like to download a high resolution version of this infographic, you can do so here.
Obviously the above figures cannot be considered representative of ALL Jehovah’s Witnesses, since in order to make it as far as JWsurvey potential voters must first breach Watchtower’s strict rules regarding the internet and so-called apostate sites.
Even so, it is heartening to see ever-growing numbers of current, former and unbaptized Witnesses using their opportunity to declare their honest views about the organization and its practices. Forums and online communities are always helpful in this regard, but nowhere else is it currently possible to get such large quantities of data on the consensus among the exJW movement.
If you are wondering how you can play your part and help make this year’s survey a similar success, we would urge you to have your say in the 2015 Global Survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses if you haven’t already done so. At the time of writing (mid-September 2015), nearly 3,200 have already voted, but with little over three months remaining there is still a long way to go before we can beat last year’s total. This gives us plenty of time to share links to the survey as widely as possible among our friends and relatives, and urge them to take part.
Another means of promoting the survey is using the increasingly popular platform of YouTube. At the moment I am working on a special montage video along with more than 50 other ex-JWs from around the world. The video will convey a special message aimed at believing Witnesses as part of our “JWsurvey Day” celebrations on October 4th. If you are able to help us share and distribute the video on social media when the big day comes, this would be hugely appreciated.
Until then, I will leave you to chew on some remarkable survey results. And I especially want to thank you all for your overwhelming support of the JWsurvey project.
Related video…
Thank you Lloyd for sharing the results, and to Kyle for putting together the info chart.
I am very proud and happy to say that I and my family are a few of the newly disassociated (11/14) ones who participated in this survey, and that we’re part of the 94% who are happier since leaving. Everyday since leaving the cult my family and I learn something new and refreshing about our freedom and about the beauty of life; revealing to us just how captive we were to the WT, how the little things in life became so complicated with the WT goggles on, and how unhappy we were as JWs. We have come to appreciate that life is to be enjoyed, not endured. We have everything to live for, and nothing to die for. It is a wonderful realization.
We came across your website and videos, along with all the ex-JWs YT channels, after leaving the WT.
The ex-JW community grows every day, we will not be silenced.
Looking forward to 2015.
Wow that is awesome for you and your family. Never blame or hold resentment for a religion that already sucked out part of your life. Use your future to embrace the fruits of exercising independent thinking. Good luck to you and your family. I suggest reading Steve Hassan’s book on Cults to help with the deprograming process. Been out 30 years and couldn’t be happier.
Thank you John. Wow! 30 years out of the Witchtower. You’ve been realizing what I have just now awoken to.
Since leaving the cult I am also realizing the difficulties and challenges of overcoming the effects of the years of WT indoctrination (self/and taught).
I am very appreciative of the ex-JW community.
It is a breath of fresh air to be out.
My wife and I have been out for over 15 years, but only last month sent a formal letter to the society of disassociation. Two elders showed up on my doorstep this morning in response. It is only the 2nd time any JW’s have called at my door in the 5 years I have lived here. Are they in damage control? I hope more former JW’s can make a formal departure.
I attended the assembly this weekend. It was a long day to be sure. When the time came for the baptism they announced that there were no candidates. Never known that to happen in all my years as a witness. The times they are a changing.
This was my first year of taking part (2015). I feel like I have found a family that I can actually talk to without being shunned or hailed before Governors. Thank you :)
Same sentiments.
Loved and understood unconditionally.
:)
Great work Lloyd. Thank you for everything that you do!
Some of the figures are amazing and many are heartening. 17% believe elders are appointed by holy spirit says so much about the massive majority but of course they dare not say. 84% Don’t donate which did surprise me but does explain the grab for cash in the last 2 years. 21% would have blood transfusions, secretly. Thank you for all the hard word Lloyd and please keep it up. The WT is fighting for its life right now and for the first time its does not have enough shoulders to look over. I am expecting some drops in world wide figures in the not so distant future despite them baptising even younger ones from poverty riddled nations.
Lloyd, thanks to you and Kyle for putting together such a brilliant info sheet. I fear they will now start to make it even harder for JWs to seek help.
Bravo Bravo Bravo. Congrats on the success of well needed stats. My son is a Data Scientist and x JW indoctrinated from birth from his mom a Super Devout JW and to him these survey numbers will be quite telling. Thank you for your efforts in helping others see the Real LIGHT!
Well done on all your hard work Lloyd.
I think as a a science fan you will appreciate the unreliability of small population, anonymous surveys, but I believe it is an interesting indication of trends.
It’s difficult to ascertain how much value we could put upon the comments, since they come from such a long continuum of JW-ness.
I put immense value on the survey, regardless of its scientific reliability or lack thereof, because it represents the opinions of over 5,000 people whose lives have been negatively impacted by a twisted cult. The comments section of the results PDF is an opportunity for an otherwise silenced community to voice their convictions for or against the organization, and is thus also extremely valuable.
You weren’t kidding about the survey comments. They are all over the place. I noticed how dissapointed most are with the heartless leadership in this cult. Again and again participants saying they are only in it to keep from losing loved ones. If I ever had doubts of CULT describing the Watchtower organization, they have been put to rest. Absolute mindcontrol from top to bottom. I really wish it were available in Spanish to share with many friends. If you thought elders were unqualified in English congregations, imagine what it is like in Spanish speaking halls where old men whom either never attended school or didnt make it past the sixth grade trust completely and absolutely in the GB being Gods voice itself. There is no reasoning in the least bit with men who can barely read (you can imagine what their knowledge of Gods word is) and have no knowledge outside of their labor jobs and whatever the Circuit Overseer veeeerrrryyyy slowly explains to them. You start speaking on bible chronology or the least bit of prophetic math and you might as well be describing the astrophysics and engineering logistics involved to get to Mars. For years as an Elder I tried to remind these individuals of the importance of sticking to Gods word and not allowing anything else in print to alter Gods outline of love for the congregation. I finally started to awaken when the new Shepperding book came out and absolutely all Christian love was tossed out the window in order to follow the three potatoes, two onions a bit of eye of newt recipe shepherding method. I really hope those still on the inside find it in them to speak up with little bits of facts all around their hall before leaving. I wish I had known what I know now before giving my last talk as an Elder, I would have logically power kicked their closet doors down. I think ill start looking into a Spanish podcast on these matters. Wish me luck.
Think you should, sir. Respect.
Go away.
Yes, it was a real brainwave idea to have a site called ‘JW Survey’ and with an invitation to take part in it as well. This community here is like therapy I believe for some us. And it could also be encouragement for those still in the grip of the cult to have their say and not feel alone in their thoughts. We are not alone anymore.
84% do not donate, that’s a huge number statistically, that explains an awful lot.
It would be interesting to see the ratio for active publishers. Apologies for not putting that in my previous post.
This is the first I participated in this survey, as my husband and I recently decided to be done with WT. Your website has been so important to helping me “wake up” and see that the questions I had supressed for so many years were valid, and have been asked by many others. More importantly, your site has helped me see that “apostates” are not soul-sucking boogeymen trying to lead me away from the truth. This is a wonderful community full of rational, thinking, reasoning people with a lot of love and balance in your varying views. Thank you for starting this work, and please don’t stop until people know the real truth!
Welcome aLittleKrunchy!
Although you’ve probably been on this site longer than I have, what the heck: Welcome to your NEW international family, aLittleKrunchy! Here, you and your husband will find real truth, real compassion, real fans of classic non-Org-approved music, and maybe even a spritz of unconditional love (but I won’t creepily use that last part as a selling point, lol).
You mean that I can play Metallica and not get frowned down upon by my mother…. Eeer wife? And all of her lil Jay dub borg “friends” (that always annoyed me… Calling other witnesses the friends…)
Probably won’t get published since a lot of my posts dissappear into the ether….
Oh man itit worked! Woo hooo!
Good one, Dblaron42. But the irritation from hearing JW’s called “the friends” PALES in comparison to them calling the Org “the Truth”. I did it a million times myself, but once I realized it wasn’t, NOTHING grated on my nerves worse than that (as far as non-life-threatening annoyances go). The survey is giving me a bit of hope that the number of people thinking the Org IS the Truth will one day take a sharp turn downward.
As for Metallica, nope, nothing has changed that will keep your wife from frowning upon it. But I won’t! In fact, Unforgiven has meant a lot to me. Many of the lines seem to describe what the JW experience has been for many. Here’s just the beginning (which you already know)…
New blood joins this earth
And quickly he’s subdued
…The young boy learns their rules
…Deprived of all his thoughts, (etc.)
As for your comments “disappearing into the ether” (which is actually the exact same phrase that I thought of when it was happening to me), look out for anything a spam filter might take notice of, like, well, I can’t use any examples if I want this comment to post, haha. So, look out for commercial sounding phrases, and all of the stuff mentioned in the posting guidelines down below.
If your email address (your name OR the domain name) has a commercial sounding word in it, it may be good to get another one that is completely neutral sounding. I don’t mean there would be a problem with the most common free email services. I mean, if you’re using an email domain from your own biz, it could throw up a red flag. And if you try to comment too frequently over a 24 hour period, that can also send your stuff into the great beyond.
This is stuff I had to work on myself. Webmaster John Hoyle was very helpful.
Thank you for not love bombing me ;) love in moderation is what I need right now lol
It is amazing that the sex tenets of JW’s primarily arose during the 1960’s sexual revolution–a response to the real world, much like we find with Christendom’s development of the tenet of the Trinity doctrine as a response to those sects developing with a view toward Gnosticism and Modalist, as well as Sabellian, views of the nature of divinity. Most of these rules developed during the time of Knorr with many a district assembly talk on “toying with sexual immorality”–outlining the “transgressions” of heavy petting (over or under the sweater action, dry humping with clothes on until he or she climaxed, etc), premarital sex with or without protective “raincoat” on the little ‘donut holder’. And, as the years rolled forward, whether or not gay husbands with JW sisters for “beards” were divorce-material or whether there engagement in natural orientation was grounds for divorce (fornication or adultery) was grist for the mill.
Interestingly, at no time was wife-beating explicitly forbidden, but it was hinted at through “a husband respects his wife.” Verbal or emotional abuse never had a ban. Likewise, rape, sexual molestation of children or women, or men, was not discussed explicitly. It was included by implication as fornication, but not outlined as clearly as some leadership had done with other sexual “sins”. It may be outlined in the Elder publication.
Dealing with our present set of circumstances, it will be interesting to see if the Elder book is revised in light of the recent legalization of gay/lesbian marriage, sexual assignment practices–male to female, female to male; and discovery of asexuality and bisexuality. Revisions regarding those individuals who wonder into the “spiritual paradise” as a legally married gay couple maybe with children, transsexual (body altered) or in the process of reassignment, etc. Penis enhancement (or reduction) surgery–in light of views on tattoos and body cutting?
Given the wide latitude some body of elders cut child pedophiles (not related to discussion of gays since gay men are NOT automatically child pedophiles as has been implied regarding some former gay GB members) and rapists, equal time would think that the judging community of JW’s should get a come-uppance with a “free pass” for anyone perceived as gay and preemptively shunned or marked. Boys who have that “soft voice” or mannerisms that are not Neanderthal enough to pass as virile, husband or elder material–banned from Bethel in the past and present, since those choice nuggets are now going to greedy married couples.
What this summarizes to is how the Watchtower community bullies individuals once they wander into its fold–most converts probably will not feel this as intensely, or able to blow-it-off and numb themselves to its effect, but for kids growing up (with coercion of join or die), the bullying through platform and community is an harassment that is unconscionable.
Thanks John for all your hard work,you have helped my wife and i to recover from the guilt we were having.
Keep up the good work. David
THIS is the stuff to give them. Proper clear statistics based on facts as against “peak publishers” and all the other JW Yearbook nonsense. Love the caricatures of the Seven Old Fools of Brooklyn at the top of Kyle’s chart! :)
sinceramente nunca imagine que mi pregunta se la estaban formulando simultaneamente tantos miles de personas en el planeta estoy avanzando legalmente con un caso de AB. INF. y esta pagina es mi gimnasio no fue facil arrear la mente
agradecidos con mi pareja <3
Hay varios otros citios que demuestran todos los pasos y profecias falsas de esta empresa multi billonaria. En preparar tu caso tienes que preparar bien un razonamiento inegable en cuanto a lo ocurrido. Si dejas el mas minimo espacio para duda, eso bastara para jusgarte como simplemente insatisfecha con la organizacion.
SORRY TO EVERYONE FOR THE BIT IN SPANISH, BUT THERE IS ABSOLUTELY BOTHING LIKE THIS SITE IN THAT LANGUAGE. HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND.
Google Translator works miracles…
I live in a geographically isolated community and because of that even though there are many ex-jws they keep a low profile, so this “thin slice” of the jw/ex-jw community is helpful to me.
It helps me see that I am not crazy or alone.
Thanks jwsurvey.
You are absolutely and definitely not alone. Love your journey. Value your bravery.
Fantastic job. Great to see such wide participation. I will be studying the pdf file for some time to glean further insights. Keep up the good work!
[John Chapman has been blocked from commenting after ignoring repeated warnings to stop posting off-topic conspiracy theorist nonsense.]
84% do not donate. Wow. Is this percentage of active JW?
No, it’s a percentage of 5,166 voters on our survey, which includes disfellowshipped and inactive JWs
It is quite a survey for sure and shows what many feel inside the WT but are afraid to speak openly. Do you remember a few years back and possibly still current the Society was asking for “LOANS” at zero interest. They said if they could get loans at zero interest and if the donators ever needed the Money back they would return the principal to them upon request? At the time I was becoming fade and arguing a lot with my wife about the WT and it’s inaccuracies in prophecy and generally not believing their teachings anymore. Well, I accidentally found a “THANK YOU ” letter to my wife for “loaning” them $40000. US Dollars! I was shocked.
I confronted her and she admitted it so I immediately wrote to the Society and told them I never approved it and it is my money and I want it back and also ANY other money that may have been loaned to them!
Interestingly thy did send me the money back but with an explanation that they had to send it to her because she was the one who wrote the check even though it was in both of our names.It took about a month to get it back. I asked he r about it and she said she thought we may eventually separate an d she wanted to have a “secret” personal account in case of emergency. So much for the biblical headship they preach about. I wonder if I never saw that letter from the WT if they would have just kept it. Now they just tell you to send them money.
Good article!! I like this finding: “The most disliked Watchtower teaching was the prohibition on higher education (96%) followed closely by shunning and bedroom laws for married couples (both at 94%)”!!
That has been for me a hat trick of victories as continue to win the war against the WTS which started openly in Feb. 2012.
Why do I say it is a hat trick of victories?
1) Prohibition on higher education: I have now registered to take a masters course in Public Health starting next week.
2) Shunning: I have survived it by associating with other people and have witnesses their kindness beyond my expectations. “Unbelievers” and “apostates” can make good friends and the latter should protect the former against WTS poisoning (harmful teachings)!
3) Bedroom laws for married couples: The biggest victory as prying into my bedroom ended up in a successful divorce which was triggered by elders after they were defeated (Read ks10 “6:13”)!
A hat trick of victories, a source my pride and joy over Watchtower’s flip flop teachings!
Yes, us ‘apostates’ are real meanies aren’t we? All the best with your new course.
Hello dear Lloyd, how we can translate your preparing video into russian?
Should the graphic show “56% are inactive through fear of being shunned”?, or is that supposed to say “56% are active …”?
The graphic is reporting on the number of people who simply remain inactive as opposed to actually disassociating or acting in a way that would cause disfellowshipping because they fear being shunned. In other words, the threat of shunning is preventing them from taking the formal step of breaking away, so they’ve taken the fading road instead.
Good day to everyone, just wanted to share an EX-JW video I found on my daily, who else has left surf of the interwebs. It’s great to hear the voice of someone speaking in a reasonable tone as to why they finally woke up from WT mind control.
http://youtu.be/xsJnINgx3ks
Thank you for this!!!
Keep up the good work, brother! You are doing the Lord’s work. Peace.
About bedroom laws for married couples. I want to share with you a scientific article published by Michela Fusachi, Professor of Cultural and Social anthropology. Read her on https://gss.revues.org/2571
Are the WTS different from the Roman Catholic Church?
Hey guys. Interesting past hour my family, who are JWs, just watched the September Broadcast. As confusing as it was and boring, my brother asked an interesting question once we were done about Russell being of the anointed. And I know he wasn’t and I know it’s because the GB don’t follow his original teachings and such but I couldn’t say it there and I wanted to so badly. I wish they weren’t brainwashed and just listen to whatever they here. Hopefully the religion ends soon, I can’t even stand the meetings hearing them talk about these events the GB has poured in their brains. An elder even told me yesterday that as a JW I need to keep progressing spiritually, and even had the neeve to say that a brother, who was a ministerial servant for 10 years, was not progressing spiritually. So apparently I’m supposed to be an elder in the future.
Pastor Russell has not lost his anointed status in the anals of Watchtower theology. He only lost his previous status of being part of the faithful and discrete slave class:
“Were the Bible Students in the years that lead up to 1914 the appointed channel through which Christ would feed his sheep? No. They were still in the growing season, and the arrangement for a channel to provide spiritual food was taking shape. The time had not yet come for the weedlike imitation Christians to be separated from the true Christian wheat.” (Watchtower July 15, 2013 study edition p.19)
“During the decades leading up to 1914, C. T. Russell and his close associates did a work like that of John the Baptizer. That vital work involved restoring Bible truths. The Bible Students taught the true meaning of Christ’s ransom sacrifice, exposed the hellfire lie, and proclaimed the coming end of the Gentile Times.” (Watchtower July 15, 2013 study edition p.11, p 6).
“Despite founding the Watch Tower Society, Charles Taze Russell was not part of the Slave Class because he was not alive and serving at Headquarters when Christ made his selection in 1919.”
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/governing-body-says-we-are-the-faithful-and-discreet-slave
@ScotWm . GOOD Answer about Russell now no longer part of F&D Slave But is still part of 144,000 as the GB say the Heavenly class began at Pentecost 33 C.E. So every Christian from 33 C.E until 1935(Judge Rutherfords Idea) was of the Anointed Heavenly Class of 144000 But any that fell away after 1935 would be replaced by a few new anointed! But that idea seems to have fallen by the wayside as there are now over 14,000 anointed & if they were baptised at say 20 in 1935 they woukd be 100 years of age now ?? And NONE of the 1914 Generation are Alive as Fred Franz was Baptised in 1913 and died at 99 years of age in 1992 …WELCOME to the CRAZY CRAZY EVER INTERPRETATIONS of The 7 LOONY MIDGETS of BROOKLYN!!
In the “anals of Watchtower theology”. Yep, that is definitely where WT theology comes from! Sorry to be sophomoric, ScotWm. That little spelling blooper just tickled my funny bone for being so perfectly appropriate.
Great comment, as always. And colorfully enhanced by my Pickled friend, lol.
@JB. Thanks for your comment. Much appreciated. .. COLLOURFUL!!! You should scroll down & see what I replied to ‘ LOL’ … Now that’s Colourful????
First of all, let me apologize, PB, for leaving out the “u” in “colourful”. You know we yanks never did learn how to spell it properly, haha.
Secondly, YOU’RE KILLING ME WITH YOUR COMMENTS!! My guts can’t handle it! “7 LOONEY M…” Oh dear… Good stuff. It’s an honor to watch you do your thing- oops, I mean HONOUR!
Sounds like the elder is teaching from Tony Morris regarding the MS speel. I know I feel the same way… I’m trying to figure out a way to break away. I have two young children which complicates things… They never want to go… Who would?! It’s boring at the meetings! But I will do it… I can’t take any more much longer… My children need a sane parent.
I don’t know how many other tricky circumstances might be keeping you in, Queen Elsa, so I don’t how difficult a clean break would be for you. But in case it helps, I would just mention that even though it may be hard to leave now, imagine how much worse of a situation you will be in if your kids get to a point where they DO want to be there. No doubt, many people here wish they could go back in time to a point BEFORE their kids became indoctrinated, so they could whisk them away to a safer situation. But again, I don’t know your circumstances, so just let me just send you my best wishes that you can one day find a path to freedom.
I remember before fading–I didn’t have the time to slice & dice the facts. I just knew the looney stuff coming from platforms, pubs and the disconnect between idealistic statements and reality were causing me anxiety attacks and headaches galore. The disconnect between their “just-around-the-corner” bait-and-switch and reality was also a source of panic attacks when walking into the KH, but mainly what I learned from finding the root of feelings was the bullying environment was the main source of my panic attacks. It’s akin to a post-traumatic stress disorder after experiencing intense threats, or bullying tactics. After sorting through and identifying all the demonic non-sense in Watchtower-dom, my attacks went away, and headaches were rare, if ever.
If someone sends me JW literature in a misguided attempt to “return to Jehovah,” the anxiety and headaches return, instantly. My life also tends to turn upside down for a few days/weeks until I purge the unclean things from my midst. I’ve learned to either politely refuse lit, or if it is stuffed into my hand, toss it or burn it as quickly as possible, if I’m not dissecting it to use as cult-busting materials.
Jehovah vs. Jesus – I know preaching isn’t allowed here, but many times well-intentioned JW’s will tout the power of prayer. I found prayer useless and meaningless. The most rewarding “conversations with deity” were those true moments of feeling overwhelmed and out-gunned and letting out a simple “Lord Jesus help me”. “Jehovah help me”–nothing. Or, those prayers about decisions to make–there’s a reason we have brains.. use them.
@DJ . I AGREE that this pushing every brother to ‘REACH OUT’ to be an Elder, MS or PIONEER creates a VERY UNHEALTHY COMPETITIVE ATMOSPHERE !!! I HATE HIERARCHICAL STRUCTURES which JESUS DID NOT HAVE!! WHERE in the New Testament are the TITLES.. SPECIAL PIONEER; REGULAR PIONEER; AUXILIARY PIONEER,BETHELITE; MISSIONARY;CIRCUIT OVERSEER; BRANCH SERVANTS; ZONE OVERSEER ; 7 LOONEY MIDGETS of BROOKLYN???! Come on ANYONE I CHALLENGE You .., WHERE are These TITLES in the BIBLE????
Yeah, Pickled Brain. They always claimed there was no hierarchy in the JWs but it was full of it like you said. It did create an incredibly competitive condescending attitude in people. Who had a better talk? Who had the best prayer? Who got the most hours? Who got promoted to MS or elder? Who got blessed with a study? or whose studies came to the memorial? Endless, endless competition. It was enough to make a normal person unconfident and low in self esteem. It was a really bad idea with really damaging results to ordinary people.
Follow your own integral, authentic self. You are the best judge of your spirituality, your integrity, your life. Respect to you.
I went to the meeting this morning. A nice family asks me to sit with them. They say they don’t like to see me sit alone. Their daughter is twelve years old. During the meeting she said she brought something for me. She gave me an ink pen she had decorated. It has pink flowers glued to it. The flowers are very cute. I like the people I’ve met at the kingdom hall I go to. They are trying to live their lives the right way. During the talk I saw some shake their heads when they heard something that didn’t sound right. But no one said anything. I don’t resent them. I know they’re lost. I feel, secretly, people at the kingdom hall would have the same opinion we see on the 2014 global survey. We’re not alone.
Perhaps the Governing Body could be encouraged to take a pertinent survey?
Apologies they did, when asking how much money an individual was prepared to donate.
What percentage of active Witnesses that answered this survey also do not donate to the Org? That would be interesting to know.
There are a number of articles on this site that deal with the financial arrangements of the society including letters to Elders e.t.c, all easily verifiable.
As I remember, on the main page there is an “older posts” button or similar. It paints quite a picture.
How so? Please elaborate…
There have been quite a number of articles on this website dealing with the society’s financial arrangements. You can follow this by clicking on the older posts button. Of course each article and observations of are easily verifiable including letters from the society.
The above comment was directed at lol, my reply got mixed up somehow
@LOL, Jake had a good suggestion about the Watchtower doing a survey. Did you see that? Why don’t they do that? Can you think of a good reason?
Do you really think that eight million Witnesses really think that everything that comes to the Governing Body’s minds is really coming from God? Or do you think it’s possible that some people don’t believe that those people are “spirit directed” but are so scared Armageddon is coming any minute that they can’t veer away from the “ark of salvation (the Watchtower)” that they don’t dare even suggest they don’t believe that anything that comes from the Watchtower isn’t really the real “truth”?
You must realize that what comes out in the literature is coming from writing committees and those people are not “anointed” and the Governing Body only “approves” what the writing committees write so how could the Governing Body be the faithful and discreet slave?
Do you really think that people would be free to fill out surveys at their local kingdom halls and put their names on those surveys and not be punished for saying how they really feel about blood, shunning and having to fill out time slips and paying for Kingdom Halls that have already been paid for but belong to the Society?
How would the Society feel if those people put on those survey slips what they think about how when the Society joined the United Nations in 1992 and stayed a member until 2002 (when it was discovered and printed in a newspaper) that they joined in with Satan’s system of governmental rule and so were lying to the rank and file about them not being neutral but the rest of us have to be neutral?
How would the Society react if those people put on those survey slips how they feel about disfellowshipping people who have the nerve to tell the rest in the congregation that they are lying about Jerusalem being destroyed in 607 but history proves it was destroyed in 586/587?
How would the Society react if the brothers and sisters put down on those survey slips that they know that the Society is lying about covering up for the thousands of pedophiles that they hid from the congregations instead of reporting those abusers to the police but let those people roam free in the congregations where the abused had to see them being treated good and the abused were not believed? I could go on, but you get the picture?
Do you see why the Society doesn’t do their own survey and how the people on this site might have some prejudice in their answers????
I feel I’m beginning to understand how brainwashing works. My boyfriend is catholic and he loves the pope. I listen to him talk because I love him. Now I like the pope. The problem isn’t with my ears, the problem is with my brain. I think about it and laugh and laugh and laugh at myself because I like the pope. I really love my boyfriend a lot. He is a lot older than me. He is seventyone years old.
Well Catalina he wears goofy clothes and a big funny hat– what’s not to like? (The Pope, not your boyfriend, lol.) No, I agree. I’ve liked what I’ve seen in this Pope too. He seems to be interested in being a reformer. After breaking away from the cult we were in, I think we can get a clearer perspective on the world. So, if someone in another religion does something to make life better for the people in that religion, we can now appreciate that person for doing something good for our fellow human beings, without us feeling dirty about it. That’s how I feel about it anyway.
@LOL
>>>A very biased and inaccurate survey, to say the least. By those who “claim to be” this and that. Absolute nonsense.
Errors(inaccuracy) and biases also seem to have a tendency to cancel each other out, rather than magnify each other or are you suggesting errors be removed(such as, fatigue bias in a question involving a long list of items to be assessed)? The issue of “claim to be” is laid out ad is on the table (in the open) for ALL to understand and surely it’s most difficult to prove “truth” from anyone’s data input, meaning people can lie! However, a good default reasoning would be, “of all the things to say – why would you say that?”. Perhaps it’s your biased view point that drapes your arm chair critique of the survey being nonsense, otherwise I look forward to your detailed survey objections with supporting data to this study. IN God we trust – others provide data!
IMHO
dogstar
I like the 96% disagreeing with the prohibition on higher education. Even as a faithful Witness, I never saw why that should be the case. On RARE occasion, educated people with good jobs would actually join the Org, and sometimes have an EASIER time: getting out in service when they wanted to, affording travel expenses to out-of-town conventions, being able to go to international conventions, being able to afford to go preach where “the need was great”, being able to contribute more, and enjoy many other benefits of a good job.
One brother I knew nearing college age was asked what his plans were by an elder. He mentioned he was thinking about a nursing degree. The elder said, “Now brother, we won’t need nurses in the New System.” And went on to not only advise against that particular field of study, but predictably against any course of study that would take very long to complete. Although I was still 100% JW at that time, I must admit, after the elder walked away, I quietly offered a different opinion to that brother.
But now we all know that the real reason for the Org’s fear of higher education is the simple reality that education is the natural enemy of cultish thinking. Membership isolation is the key to their power. Yuck.
Totally in agreement, JBR. Excellent reasoning, as usual.
LOL,
If your gonna criticise, try to be specific, otherwise it’s
just palaver. Learn from the professionalism of the
Aussie, Royal commissions report.
10006 unreported pedophiles in the JW community,
there. Pin point accuracy down to the last digit.
Hi Ted. Wasn’t it 1006 cases? Or am I wrong?
I thought the figure (1006) was referring to perps not total victims.
Actually, Ted put too many noughts in there. But he’s right. It was 1006 pedophiles. Amount of cases is unknown at this stage. Pedophiles don’t usually stop at one, so we would presume there are thousands of victims just in Australia alone.
Wow, I thought it was 1006 cases, but if that number refers to pedophiles then the situation is worse than I imagined. Thanks for the correction, MJ.
@LOL . I MUST SAY you REALLY IMPRESSED ME GREATLY with your IDOL WORSHIP of the 7 LOONEY MIDGETS of BROOKLYN!!! You aren’t one of the Privileged ANOINTED CLASS Are You?? You SOooooo Obedient coming on to this Website!!!
What does ‘LOL’ stand for…’ Laughable Old Looney ” Clayton Woodworth who was one of the MAGNIFICENT ANOINTED Class & He was in prison in 1918 with Rutherford so one of The Elite GB !! He Was SUCH a SANE INDIVIDUAL!! He CO-WROTE the ‘FINISHED MYSTERY ‘ … SUCH a STUNNING HOLY PIECE of Spirit inspired WRITING when Jesus chose the F&D Slave in 1919!! ..WELL ‘ LOL’ .. You Have a Lovely Night & why don’t you Google Finished Mystery & Clayton Woodworth… ???
This cult uses isolation from outside opinions as a way to keep its followers trapped, and confused, like the proverbial mushroom…..kept in the dark and fed on….
So, finding out how others really feel or think about the various teachings and policies can be a real eye-opener.
These type of surveys do serve a purpose.
The investigations are getting better all the time, we have to wait a little more for the full out documentary. Found this gem on http://www.jwfacts.com
http://youtu.be/uCNQs3YKY1I
This one helped me start conversations with a fellow ex elder
http://youtu.be/u5JnngqQYvc
Excellent and well researched indeed.
Markw1509,
Thanks for your question Mark. The ARC, uncovered
5000 files on children who were sexually abused by
1006 perpetrators in the JW religion. That’s my
recollection,
Thanks for that clarification, Ted. Much obliged.