A Jehovah's Witness in Warrington, UK engaging in metropolitan witnessing
A Jehovah’s Witness in Warrington, UK engaging in metropolitan witnessing

The sight of Jehovah’s Witnesses standing next to eye-catching wheeled carts brimming with books and magazines is fast becoming a familiar sight throughout the developed world as “special metropolitan public witnessing” is embraced as a new way to spread Watchtower’s message.

When you pass these displays on the sidewalks of city centers you would be forgiven for assuming that ANY Witness can engage in this form of public preaching without having to meet any special criteria.

After all, ALL witnesses can participate in door-to-door witnessing. Surely standing next to a colorful cart isn’t too different, right?

Wrong.

A concerned active Witness has sent us a copy of the S-73 form “Application for Special Metropolitan Public Witnessing Program,” which pioneers are required to fill in if they are interested in pursuing the ‘privilege’ of getting involved in this work.

A PDF copy of the form is temporarily available on this link

***PLEASE NOTE: There is a difference between “Special Metropolitan Witnessing Public Witnessing,” which is carried out in densely populated urban areas between (or outside of) congregation boundaries, and “Public Witnessing That Is Organized locally,” which is organized by bodies of elders and may involve normal publishers (not pioneers). This article and the accompanying video discusses the former, not the latter. For more information, see pages 4 to 6 of the July 2013 Our Kingdom Ministry.***

A not-so-complete forgiveness

The form for special metropolitan public witnessing asks basic questions of the applicants before probing them as follows…

  • Have you been reproved by a judicial committee within the last three years? If so, when?
  • Have you been reinstated by a judicial committee within the last five years? If so, when?
  • Are you now of good moral standing and habits?
  • Are you willing and able to follow theocratic direction on public witnessing?

Bear in mind, the above questions are generally being asked of pioneers, who must already be of “good moral standing and habits” and be “willing and able to follow theocratic direction” to hold their positions in the first place.

Then there is the curious probing of how recently the pioneer has been reproved or reinstated. According to Watchtower literature, those who are reinstated after being disfellowshipped for wrongdoing are forgiven “completely and permanently.” They are to be considered as “full-fledged members of the family” for whom Jehovah has “wipe[d] the slate clean.” (w13 6/15 p.19 par.12; w98 10/1 p.17 par.16; w12 11/15 p.27 par.5)

But according to this form, the forgiveness extended through the judicial process isn’t quite so complete and permanent. Even if you’re deemed repentant by a judicial committee and thus reproved, you will still need to endure the humiliation of confessing to this in writing for the next three years if you want to participate in this form of public witnessing.

Rated from A to E

But it doesn’t end there. Once you have navigated the applicant’s part of the form, your elders then have to fill in the other side, and place your conduct under further scrutiny.

The following 10 questions are first asked…

  1. Is the applicant a zealous Kingdom publisher?
  2. Does he care well for his responsibilities?
  3. Does he enjoy and promote good relations with others?
  4. Does he demonstrate a proper view toward people of other cultures?
  5. Does he cooperate with the body of elders?
  6. (a) Does he demonstrate a willingness to approach people in different public settings in order to share the good news? (b) Does he demonstrate discernment when doing so?
  7. (a) If the applicant has been disfellowshipped or disassociated in the past, was he reinstated within the past five years? (b) If so, when?
  8. Has he been reproved by a judicial committee in the last three years? When? Date restrictions lifted:…
  9. Is he now of good moral standing and habits?
  10. Do you recommend that he be trained for this special public witnessing program?
Witnesses who want to stand beside literature carts need to admit to any judicial action taken against them in the recent past
Witnesses who want to stand beside literature carts need to admit to any judicial action taken against them in the recent past

As you can see, the issue of past sin, whether the individual was deemed repentant or not, is regarded as being of pressing urgency in whether or not he or she qualifies to stand next to a literature cart!

The bottom of the form even includes instructions that it is to be “kept on file,” meaning that the fact that the person has sinned will remain on record for an indefinite period. How does this demonstrate true forgiveness?

But the elders are still not done with you, the applicant, yet.

Each member of the service committee, followed by the circuit overseer (provided they are not close relatives of you) must finally rate your worthiness from A to E on the following table…

elder-ratingIt is as though the Governing Body, who will be ultimately responsible for this ridiculous form, are completely oblivious to the fact that witnessing of any kind is a voluntary activity for which Witnesses receive no payment.

They should feel fortunate to have anyone interested in standing on a street corner publicly promoting their propaganda to begin with. Instead they make Witnesses go through this potentially humiliating application process in order to give of their time freely.

Not surprisingly, the person who sent me this document told me that he knows of it deterring at least one applicant from pursuing the metropolitan witnessing work. I can only say how proud I am of this unknown individual for having some self-respect rather than yielding to such invasive and pedantic questioning.

So next time you see Jehovah’s Witnesses standing proudly beside their literature carts in some bustling metropolis, spare a thought for the indignity they likely suffered to do so.

 

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I wish to express my sincere gratitude to the individual who made this information available.

106 thoughts on “So, how were you rated? – Elders rate pioneers from A to E for metropolitan witnessing

  • May 18, 2014 at 4:16 pm
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    Perhaps righteousness is earned.
    Don’t know one woman/man who is without sin.
    I always thought that what pleased God the most was faith. No. It’s got to be a clean record we us and hey don’t argue because we are in authority even over and controlling your sin.

  • May 18, 2014 at 4:20 pm
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    And since when does a pioneer, MS or elder fall under “D – Poor (may not qualify), and E – Does not qualify”? Aren’t these people already supposed to have excellent preaching and people skills? Ugh….

  • May 18, 2014 at 4:23 pm
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    isabella, It requires more than personality and intelligence, it also requires physical stamina. I think they have to stand instead of sit down. I didn’t see a chair.

    I reckon they are looking for the “salesmanship” in one who can draw people in. That magnetic personality thing. After all, they are counting their time, right? And they must have something to show for it, like placements of literature.

  • May 18, 2014 at 4:28 pm
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    Conscience is a gift of God. Those who control conscience own you.
    CON- science. . Just a thought.x

  • May 18, 2014 at 6:56 pm
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    Other (more legitimately) “volunteer” organizations frequently require even more stringent filtering processes such as criminal background checks, particularly for people placed in positions of trust.

    Of course instead of making use of these sorts of commonly practised methods of keeping say, children and others in vulnerable positions by being subject to those in power, instead, the WT organization prefers to keep a policy of only raking the low level rank n file through this rather than those promoted to eldership and other high level positions of “power”.

    In my opinion, the form you share is a joke that further ignores the real legal systems in various countries, and just puts on a giant “show” of having taken reasonable steps to appear to have ensured they have good people doing their work.

    Non-checked elders are the ones playing these political games of rating the “large army of women” who are usually the ones doing their “advertising” work.

  • May 18, 2014 at 7:23 pm
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    Oops, I meant to say instead of using all methods available for keeping children and others safe when vulnerable to those in positions of power…they do their hokey pokey putting only the pioneers through their paces.

    Hopefully ya’ll got the point despite my distracted typing.

  • May 18, 2014 at 7:25 pm
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    I watched a gaggle of them gather around a literature stand recently. They’re such deviants in a way, hey.

  • May 18, 2014 at 7:29 pm
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    Joe Blow – Love your point about Peter.

  • May 18, 2014 at 7:31 pm
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    Gary – I’ve had similar thoughts. And have to agree, if it looks, walks, talks, acts, and quacks, like a con, it’s most likely a con.

  • May 19, 2014 at 2:09 am
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    Think about it, if anyone could do the rack, who would want to keep knocking on doors? Working the rack has to be the easiest way to “rack” up your hours.

  • May 19, 2014 at 2:13 am
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    I bet Richard Dawkins would donate a bunch of his paperback books and the Skeptics society might send you other literature if you told him you were going to set up a rack alongside a JW street promotion.

  • May 19, 2014 at 2:17 am
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    John you have(had) a super head on your shoulders, excellent ideas.

  • May 19, 2014 at 2:20 am
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    Tiger, I appreciate it

  • May 19, 2014 at 2:22 am
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    Do you seen the word JW anywhere on the rack? I smell some Amway-type heavenly deception, in avoiding identification until you get a few licks in.

  • May 19, 2014 at 2:26 am
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    2 million a year?

  • May 19, 2014 at 2:33 am
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    If conscience is a gift, certainly guilt is our greatest curse.

  • May 19, 2014 at 2:48 am
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    Conscience is a useful tool for all of us. However controlling guilt is another.

  • May 19, 2014 at 2:49 am
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    I’ll put my sarcasm on hold for a moment, I am very concerned about pedophiles engaged in this activity. Its like the candy store for perverts parading in front of their face. Of note, someone mentioned background checks, I was a Boy Scout leader maybe 6 years ago and the background check they did involved the standard FBI Clearance procedure White House appointees and other Fed employees are given. I filled out a 10 page form with all the personal info, drug use, criminal arrests and convictions, job history, you can imagine. Had I been arrested/convicted of something, fired from a job and not given all the details I would have been disqualified off the bat and if I had used drugs or committed anything more than a traffic offense, I would have also been dropped. If someone who knew me way back had made any comment implying I had done any of these things or something “kinky” that the police had no clue about the results would have D’Qed me too. And it was a rule you could not be alone with a child, another adult had to be presence, for everything a car ride home etc. The BSA has done this why? Because of lawsuits, the Tower will have to do the same or pay a hell of a lot of cash. By doing the check, the organization can defend itself from those pesky child sex abuse claims because they acted with due diligence.

    • May 19, 2014 at 5:30 am
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      Art Fern,

      I agree. But real checks, like what you describe, and for those men in power, not just fake checks for mostly female pioneers.

      Yes, pedophiles can be female too, but the vast majority are male so again I underscore the thought that the men need to be rated by more than a boys club calling their heartburn a leaning of holy spirit saying a person is or is not approved for xyz.

  • May 19, 2014 at 6:51 am
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    @Art Fern,
    I feel your words should be written a Holier book than those we currently take as HOLY! (Jeremiah 5:8)!
    Your comment has really inspired me! What wise words “If conscience is a gift, certainly guilt is our greatest curse.”!

  • May 19, 2014 at 12:41 pm
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    @micha-el–easy, “yes”. part of the elitist ‘tude found throughout “Oz” or “Wonderland”. Someone fresh out of ‘splash down’ would not be eligible for “fulltime” rep, and would still be on probation basis (escorted in field). Likewise, if you faded or got d/f and reinstated to “active”. At one point in history of JW, d/f or discipline actions, disqualified individuals for life from certain roles, but now, in desperation hours, any old libertine can jet off to China missions.

  • May 19, 2014 at 12:42 pm
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    If she were wearing a tee-shirt with “JW” on it, that would…

  • May 19, 2014 at 6:02 pm
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    The society know that these people will end up on youtube in the worlds big metropolitan cities.

    These forms are surely a screening program and nothing more. Wow the PR department really has some sway nowadays. I stopped going about 10 years ago and it has become more like a business than I would ever have believed.

  • May 20, 2014 at 7:02 am
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    …has anyone wondered why they are now using book stalls into the town streets…. isn’t it obvious that the door to door is not effective now …. and what about Acts which Watchtower badly confuse to mean go door to door is this now not applicable to them ….. or is this new light ?

    well anyway this gives me more opportunity in Love to witness to JW’S as they are sadly lost.

    • May 20, 2014 at 7:49 am
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      Too right, Les Hoy; the JWs are now wide open to being deluged with leaflets and fliers from JWFacts, AAWA, Silent Lambs and individual ex JWs, spreading the truth about JW TRUTH.

  • May 21, 2014 at 12:44 am
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    I have approached the trolleys 3 times so far. I asked them about the Dfing policy and if they though it was scriptural. I spoke to JWs I didn’t know and in time revealed I was Df’d but they all carried on the conversation.

    I also spoke to a JW I did know, he was very kind and happy to enter into a convo with me. I told him I had lost faith in the fact that HS guided my JC.

    He told me about this Metro witnessing. They have to be regular pioneers and have two hours of trolley training, it was news to me that they had to be approved though.

    In their training they are told not to approach anyone, they must wait to be approached. I suppose this is good for the public, but there may be a legal angle too.

    If you want to see an account of one of my visits to the trolley click on the link.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/279936/1/Any-ideas-for-my-return-visit#.U3xYk_ldW8A

    Thanks Cedars for this article
    Kate xx

  • May 22, 2014 at 4:21 am
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    Thinking of leaving.

    I agree that Sister is Hot. I might have to start doing Metro work and try to work with her!! lol

  • May 22, 2014 at 4:30 am
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    to Chatpal

    Your mom is WAY off in her numbers? If she claims there are 5000 a day coming in and there are 3654 days a year that would mean there are approximately 1,351,000 per year getting baptized?

    I think there are around 7,000,000 Witnesses Worldwide so that would be over a 19% increase per year. Which means they would double every 3.7 years ( the power of 72 ) We all know that is not happening. Maybe she said or meant 500 per day were coming in which would give them a growth of 1.9% per year? That could be possible of course there could be 250 per day leaving or getting DF’s for thinking out loud also!!

  • May 24, 2014 at 1:02 pm
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    Hi Cedars!

    It looks like many JW’s are slowly waking up thanks to your website and others similar to your own.

    Davey

  • May 26, 2014 at 4:23 pm
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    Physical stamina needed??
    When the pioneers have been used to walking from door to door for some years, it must be very difficult on the old tootsies to stand in the same place for any length of time. I, for one, found it hard to stand at one door for too long!
    They can’t approach people to talk to them either, they must wait for someone to take some sort of initial interest before a conversation can ensue. It must be like waiting for a bus that never comes.
    Jesus said that he came that they might have life and might have it in abundance!
    I can’t think of a worse waste of precious time and precious life than this sad occupation. What poor, misguided people they are to go through these indignities in order to please seven men. Seven MEN who never have to prove their credentials to anyone because they are so squeaky clean and who have appointed themselves as representatives of the Most High.
    Jesus words again say “Whoever exalts himself WILL be humbled. Amen to that!

  • May 28, 2014 at 4:19 pm
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    Wow! You can be guaranteed that there will be no annointed ones allowed to do the tables since they are “mentally and emotionally unbalanced” in the head according to their watchtower 8/11.

    • May 28, 2014 at 6:23 pm
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      My wife is still a Pioneer and I asked her about the rating system and she claims she has never heard of it ?
      Is this a “secret” rating that the elders do or the Society does thru the C.O? Is it something they do everywhere
      or they just rate them in the USA? I know a JW in Sweden and he says he does the Metro work and he is not a pioneer? BTW, I call it pushing the apple cart. I remember years ago when I was a JW a C.O. used to tell us that we need to approach people and offer them the literature bc we don’t want to look like a cigar store Indian and just stand there? Now they say they should not approach people but let the people approach them? Sounds like another Flip Flop Idea.

  • June 10, 2014 at 8:47 am
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    Kate Wild,

    Nice to have a post from you, dear lady.

    I have listened to your RI meeting on YouTube and that idiot with the Liverpudlian accent still haunts my memory. What a bunch of gits they are.

    I hope that the process to rescue your son from your ex husband is professing in your favour.

    I am not religious anymore, so I won’t pray for you, but you and many other decent, lovely people like you are in my thoughts.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  • August 22, 2014 at 8:08 am
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    This is in harmony with the scriptures. I mean do you want a pedafile running the literature carts? Or someone who is of good moral standing and zealous? Feel sorry for the person who sent this to you because they were too prideful to admit they didn’t qualify for this particular avenue of service.

  • August 22, 2014 at 8:10 am
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    And thanks for blocking me from commenting, you hypocrite. You try to expose jws for keeping silencing their members, yet you do it to me. You are a venomous viper.

  • August 22, 2014 at 10:24 am
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    Jeremy,

    Your reference to paedophiles is most appropriate. Did you know that your religion has covered up child abuse? Please research this, you can find FACTS about it on various news outlets. There are court cases that have proven this to be true.

    If you are a Christian then your duty is clear. I hope that you will do all in your power to help the victims and expose this most unChristian practice.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

    • August 22, 2014 at 10:41 am
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      Well there is alot of propaganda about the witnesses. And while I have read some news stories I also can tell when they are fabricated or twisted as alot of them are. But i also know that each person is accountable to God. I find that most people who have a problem with JWs have an issue with authority in general.

      • August 22, 2014 at 11:11 am
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        Your findings are most odd, Jeremy. I have not noticed that ex JWs, and those campaigning to expose the abuses of this publishing and property corporation, have problems with accepting authority in general.

        I am not alone, however, in having a problem with the presumed authority of the Jehovah’s Witness bosses. Their authority is based entirely on the claim that they are ‘The Faithful and Discreet Slave’ as referred to by Jesus in Matthew 24. I have asked countless JWs to produce evidence to support that claim. None has done so.

        There is a reason for that. There is no evidence. The claim is hollow and utterly bogus. It is as verifiable as that other foundational claim of the JW bosses; that Jesus, having returned invisibly to earth in 1914, chose, in 1918, the Jehovah’s Witnesses as his his sole earthly channel, and dismissed the rest of Christendom as pawns of Satan.

        If the latter were the case, it appears that Jesus chose an organisation, the Bible students, who celebrated Christmas, had no issue with blood transfusions, and whose leader, Judge Rutherfors, was to predict, in 1920, in ‘Millions Now Living Will Never Die’ that at the 1925 Armageddon, Abraham and other prophets of old were to be resurrected in San Diego.

        Using these preposterous and unevidenced claims to Divine authority, what have the JW bosses achieved?

        They have made repeated duff prophecies about the date for Armageddon. They have condemned thousands to unnecessary deaths through their flip flopping nonsense on blood transfusions. They have induced millions of nightmares with their imminent Armageddon horrors. (When I was a JW, in the middle of the last century, Armageddon was due before the death of the 1914 generation; they are all dead now) They have protected paedophiles with their two witness rule. They have stunted countless lives with their frowning on higher education. They have split families with their shunning edicts.

        Jeremy; you are wrong about many many ex JWs. We do not have a problem with sound, benign and intelligent authority. Bogus, destructive and ridiculous authority like that of the JWs is a problem that the world needs to know about, and an authority which needs, like that of Hitler and the Al Quaedr bosses. to be destroyed.

        If you are going to reply, Jeremy, please give clear evidence of the claims to authority made by the JW bosses’ i.e. the ‘F & D. Slave claim and the 1918 divine appointment. Please also explain why these ‘divinely appointed’ leaders have achieved nothing beyond duff prophecy, unnecessary deaths, split families, protection of paedophiles and stunted lives.

        I await your reply with interest.

      • August 22, 2014 at 11:30 am
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        Jeremy – You do know some people lost love ones in death because the GB at one point said organ transplants were wrong? Only to reverse it later. People do not have a properly with authority when it is exercised properly. Jesus even warned about lording it over others. I for one have no problem following God’s clear directions. This is were many religions cross the line and since they can not bring people back to life. Something they should just stay away from. It is called dogma.

        • August 22, 2014 at 12:33 pm
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          No I never heard about the organ transplant issue, but even if that was the case, God CAN resurrect the people who died by not getting a transplant. And he will not hold the governing body accountable because they are the “faithful and discreet” slave. Their faith in God outweighs their minor imperfections. And certain organ transplants used to be done with only blood whereas now alot of them are bloodless so they likely only changed their stance as technology improved in the area of bloodless surgeries. But the blood issue is one where the JWs have always been right, regardless of what our accusers say. A little research will show that ALL blood transfusions come with a high risk and hundreds of different diseases can be spread by them, whereas even non witneses are beginning to see the value of nonblood surgeries. Point being, that us JWs are not ignorant of doing our research and even smarter than most doctors in terms of medical procedures involving blood.

          • August 22, 2014 at 12:50 pm
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            Please, Jeremy, give us some evidence that shows that the WT Governing Body are in fact ‘The Faithful and Discreet Slave’. I have asked countless JWs to supply some evidence. None has been able to. There is a reason for that. There is no evidence. The claim is bogus.

            The JW murderous blood nonsense has nothing whatever to do with good medical practice. It is merely a control tool. To gain their army of unpaid mag pushers’ total allegiance to the organisation, the JW bosses have devised a whole load of methods whereby to try and kid their followers that they are separate from the rest of society, from ‘Satan’s World’. The blood horrors are but one.

            Why, in a world about to be utterly transformed by Armageddon, would medical skills of any sort be necessary? JWs will survive as perfect immortals never needing any medical treatment at all, with or without blood. That is why the JW bosses discourage higher education. Were everyone on the world to bow to this ridiculous edict we would have no medical experts at all, whether or not they use blood.

            ANyway, accoeding to JW doctrine, Jesus chose the Bible Students as his sole earthly channel back in 1918 when they had no issue with blood transfusion. That has only been the doctrine since 1945. Latterly it has been modified with the most flagrant hypocrisy. Blood fractions are permitted, but blood donation, the only source of blood fractions, will result in Armageddon execution.

            On the subject of trying to kid you guys that you are not part of the world, you JWs are told that your little late 19th century Adventist spinoff sect is not part of Christendom.

            JWdom is as much a part of Christendom as it is of the world. It is simply a singularly ugly and disgusting part.

            I hope you will soon cease to be an unpaid mag pusher for a global publishing and property corporation which cares nothing for you beyond your ability to augment its capital value. Best wishes and here’s to your escape!

  • August 22, 2014 at 12:45 pm
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    Boy Cedar loves to twist the truth, much like Satan twists it! But the cold reality is that Cedar actually banned me from posting on here by my home isp address. The reason why he banned me is because i was too reasonable and i was starting to unbrainwash his weak and wishy washy followers. He preaches about the JWs keeping their followers silenced, whereas he tried to silence me. We have a word for what Cedar is back home. It’s called HYPOCRITE. But he would rather steal my freedom of speech while pretending to be the voice of reason. Please do not buy into all of his propaganda, because if us JWs don’t have the truth than mankind has no hope. So either put your faith in Jesus and his organization of imperfect men, or oppose it like Cedar and see where that gets you.

    Cedar is just a bitter person who spends his time attacking one particular religion whereas there are over 40,000 he could attack. Either forgive, forget, or move on because your vendetta is rather embarrassing to even your followers if they actually stopped to use their brain for once!

    • August 23, 2014 at 11:13 pm
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      Jeremy, thank you for returning and showcasing your ignorance so magnificently on JWsurvey. You are right, I was wrong to block you so hastily from trolling our site. Far better to let you spew forth your spiteful narrowmindedness and let the world see what being a loyal Watchtower servant is all about – burying your head in the sand, refusing to acknowledge the man behind the curtain, and spewing forth ad hominem vitriol at anyone who dares to think for themselves and encourage others to do the same.

      You must feel exceptionally courageous posting on this site and taking pot shots at me. I wonder though, do your actions meet with the endorsement of your local elders. Could you perhaps give us their names and the name of your local congregation so that we can know that your actions are officially sanctioned by your local hierarchy?

      Also, while you’re feeling so brave, perhaps you could regale myself and others with sorely-needed evidence that others have been woefully inept at providing. Can you prove to me, and others, that Jesus visited earth invisibly in 1914, that he waited for Charles Taze Russell to die in 1916 before appointing Joseph Rutherford (a man history recalls as a bully, a bigot and a racist, and quite possibly an alcoholic) as one of his founding “faithful and discreet slaves”). Can you then furnish evidence that, having selected a group of men in 1919 to be his inaugural faithful slave Jesus exited earth as invisibly as he came in 1919, but allowed his chosen “slave” to die, with all subsequent leaders of the Watchtower being allowed to inherit the mantle of authority through some curious form of apostollic succession (a catholic principle denounced in both the Reasoning book and Insight volumes)?

      If you can give tangible evidence in support of the above I will happily not just let you continue to post but close down this site and my YouTube channel, and cease all ‘apostate’ activity. If you CANNOT furnish this evidence, then you must accept that the wild claims made by your dear leaders are no more verifiable or substantiated than the claims made by the leaders of any of the other “40,000” religions you mention. Perhaps such an acknowledgment might encourage a little more humility and open-mindedness on your part, but forgive me if I don’t hold my breath.

  • August 22, 2014 at 12:55 pm
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    Jeremy – the thing is truth does not change. So I guess you do not truly understand what is meant by being DF. The GB and elders I know say when a person is DF(disfellowshipped they have lost their relationship with God and worthy of death) They are in essence determining sin. Were in the Bible do you see prophets or any person determining sin? Only God can determine sin. In the bible when some one sin and was stone to death it was a clear wrong it was not an oops and then the later no longer a sin. Sin did not change. So for the GB to change and said organ transplants were\are no longer a sin, they are putting themselves in a very dangerous place to me. Scriptures clearly show God has the right to determine what is sin. By the way I feel your statement about a future resurrection rather cold. When a person did not have to die anyway. Do you really believe the resurrection is a comfort at such a time? What I told you is the tip of the ice berg. The interesting thing is Jesus condemn the religious leaders for putting heavy loads in the people. There are so many things that change and effect peoples lives. Things that were good than bad then good again. God’s teachings are constant not ever changing. In the absence of clarity, the GB should let a Christians conscience allow them to make a decision.

  • August 22, 2014 at 12:56 pm
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    Well, Jeremy, you are free now to rant agianst Cedars. How about using your freedom to give us some evidence about the divine appointment, in 1918 of the JWs as God’s sole earthly rep.

    How about some evidence to boost the ‘Faithful and Discreet Slave’ claim, the sole source of the JW bosses’ authority. Without evidence their entire authority collapses.

    Please use your freedom also to explain why Jesus chose a sect which, in 1918, celebrated Christmas and had no issue with blood transfusions. Why did Jesus choose a sect that has a reputation purely for duff prophecy, paedophile protection and split families through shunning?

    We have heard your rants against Cedars, Jeremy. Now let us read some evidence which might lead us to believe that there is some truth in JW TRUTH.

  • August 22, 2014 at 1:03 pm
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    Jeremy,

    I keep asking you questions. ALthough you continue to post, you address none of them. You merely rail against Cedars.

    You now have the opportunity to explain to us ex JWs why we are wrong, and why we should live our lives according to the diktats of the JW Gov. Bod.

    I have pasted a previous comment whose points you have uniformly ignored. It is clear now that you are safe from censorship. Let us hear the TRUTH of JWdom presented clearly and honestly. Make your case, Jeremy. We wait with bated breath!

    Your findings are most odd, Jeremy. I have not noticed that ex JWs, and those campaigning to expose the abuses of this publishing and property corporation, have problems with accepting authority in general.

    I am not alone, however, in having a problem with the presumed authority of the Jehovah’s Witness bosses. Their authority is based entirely on the claim that they are ‘The Faithful and Discreet Slave’ as referred to by Jesus in Matthew 24. I have asked countless JWs to produce evidence to support that claim. None has done so.

    There is a reason for that. There is no evidence. The claim is hollow and utterly bogus. It is as verifiable as that other foundational claim of the JW bosses; that Jesus, having returned invisibly to earth in 1914, chose, in 1918, the Jehovah’s Witnesses as his his sole earthly channel, and dismissed the rest of Christendom as pawns of Satan.

    If the latter were the case, it appears that Jesus chose an organisation, the Bible students, who celebrated Christmas, had no issue with blood transfusions, and whose leader, Judge Rutherfors, was to predict, in 1920, in ‘Millions Now Living Will Never Die’ that at the 1925 Armageddon, Abraham and other prophets of old were to be resurrected in San Diego.

    Using these preposterous and unevidenced claims to Divine authority, what have the JW bosses achieved?

    They have made repeated duff prophecies about the date for Armageddon. They have condemned thousands to unnecessary deaths through their flip flopping nonsense on blood transfusions. They have induced millions of nightmares with their imminent Armageddon horrors. (When I was a JW, in the middle of the last century, Armageddon was due before the death of the 1914 generation; they are all dead now) They have protected paedophiles with their two witness rule. They have stunted countless lives with their frowning on higher education. They have split families with their shunning edicts.

    Jeremy; you are wrong about many many ex JWs. We do not have a problem with sound, benign and intelligent authority. Bogus, destructive and ridiculous authority like that of the JWs is a problem that the world needs to know about, and an authority which needs, like that of Hitler and the Al Quaedr bosses. to be destroyed.

    If you are going to reply, Jeremy, please give clear evidence of the claims to authority made by the JW bosses’ i.e. the ‘F & D. Slave claim and the 1918 divine appointment. Please also explain why these ‘divinely appointed’ leaders have achieved nothing beyond duff prophecy, unnecessary deaths, split families, protection of paedophiles and stunted lives.

    I await your reply with interest

  • August 24, 2014 at 6:34 am
    Permalink

    Jeremy,

    You said you had read some news stories. You said some of them were fabricated and implied that some were not fabricated.

    Which news stories do you know to be true? Can you direct us to them, please?

    Which news stories do you know to be fabrications? Can you provide us with the evidence that you have to prove this, please?

    You insult my intelligence? You claim I am a follower of John Cedars? Do you have any evidence to back your slander?

    Have I at any time insulted you? Have I been anything but polite? What gives you the right to insult me and accuse me of being stupid and of being a man’s follower?

    Jeremy, I pity you. You are trying to defend a religion that has, sadly, let down its followers in so many ways.

    The fact is that the WTBTS has pursued a child protection policy that has allowed paedophiles to flourish in your midst.
    I wish it were not so, Jeremy. I wish that it was all lies. But those children and young people are real, genuine victims, Jeremy.

    Please answer my questions, not for my sake, but for yours.

    Please research and verify what you believe. Please research and verify what we say.

    Lastly, think of those children who have suffered abuse and its cover up in the WTBTS. What would Jesus want you to do for them?

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  • August 24, 2014 at 9:59 am
    Permalink

    Hi Jeremy. If you don’t remember the organ transplant issue, that means you are less than 40 years old? Do you remember how from 1969 to 1975, Fred Franz was telling us in all our literature and in his speeches, how on a certain date in 1975, Armageddon was going to start? If you go on youtube, you can hear his actual speeches pinpointing a certain date in 1975.

    He was no different than any of all of the other false prophets who pin pointed a certain date for the end of the world and the prophecies failed. Jesus said in Mathew 7:21-23 that there would be many who claimed to know Jesus and would prophesy in his name but he’d say they never knew him. At Deut. 18:22 it says that if a prophet speaks a prophesy in God’s name and the prophesy didn’t come true, that meant the prophet wasn’t from God. In other words if the prophet is speaking for God, then God would make that prophesy come true and if the prophesy didn’t come true, that was proof that the prophet was not from God. That is a good way to tell if they are from God or not. The thing that that points out though is that Jesus said that NOBODY would know the day or hour, not even he, himself but Fred Franz and the Watchtower thought they were smarter than Jesus. You should think about that. THE MEN AT THE WATCHTOWER THOUGHT THEY WERE SMARTER THAN JESUS.

    What about what the Bible says at Romans chapt. 10:11-13 where all the other Bibles in the world, recognize that those scriptures are referring to Jesus when they all say that whoever calls on the name of the Lord (Jesus) that they will be saved but our Bible inserted Jehovah for verse 13? Why is that? The name Jehovah was never in any of the original manuscripts of any of the Bible but was an invention by the Catholic church in 1270 and so the name Jehovah was never in the Christian Greek Scriptures but that was one place the Society inserted the name of Jehovah and the reason is because at Zephaniah 2:3 it says “seek Jehovah, all you meek ones of the earth, who have practiced his own judicial decision. Seek righteousness, seek meekness. PROBABLY you may be concealed in the day of Jehovah’s anger.” The Watchtower placed the name of Jehovah in Romans chapt. 10 in the place of Jesus because the Watchtower IGNORES the teachings of Jesus whenever it suits their purpose and will mislead any and all of their followers if they can use the scripture at Zeph. to scare all of us into being unpaid slaves to them for our entire lives, making us all believe that unless we get on their “ark” of the ORGANIZATION, we will all be killed at Armageddon. They like to point out the PROBABLY to keep us all in flux, scared to death that if we don’t follow every instruction and opinion coming from the Watchtower, that God will strike us all dead at Armageddon. What the Watchtower does by misquoting scriptures, is to show that it’s not Christian at all by ignoring what Jesus Christ taught in case after case.

    I am glad you have the courage to come to this web site. I think, hopefully, you are sincere and think we are all being deluded and God is going to kill us at Armageddon.

    Please have the courage to look at the real history of the organization. It is us who are trying to help you to see that it’s you who are wasting your life on lies, not the other way around. Try JW facts. Everything you see is backed up by provable facts and Watchtower’s own literature.

    What the organization is today is no where even close to what Jesus supposedly chose as his one and only true organization in 1919. The organization that Jesus supposedly chose believed in Christmas, birthdays, the cross and probably that all good people go to heaven and that the Pope was Michael or some such dumb hundreds of theories set forth in the Studies in the Scriptures from 1919. If Jesus chose that organization in 1919 and the organization doesn’t keep all the things that Jesus approved of in 1919, then it’s Ruthford’s religion that he gave the name of Jehovah’s Witnesses, that has apostated from what Jesus approved of in 1919 and they use the scripture about increasing light to keep you in the dark that it never did have God’s backing in the first place.

    All the Society can do, is SAY THAT JESUS CHOSE THEM IN 1919 BUT THEY HAVE NOTHING TO PROVE IT. IT’S JUST A CLAIM. THAT IS WHY WE ARE BEGGING YOU TO COME UP WITH ANYTHING TO PROVE US WRONG. WE WANT YOU TO PROVE US WRONG. Otherwise, there are over 7 million people who are being misled and wasting their precious lives, advertising a publishing company that will stoop to any means to keep us quiet, even if it means suicide after suicide and death after death.

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