Governing Body member Geoffrey Jackson has announced a new NWT bible at this year's annual meeting
Governing Body member Geoffrey Jackson has announced a new NWT bible at this year’s annual meeting

Watchtower’s much-anticipated 129th Annual Meeting was held today at the Stanley Theater, New Jersey. In an unprecedented move, the event was streamed live to 1,830 locations – a global audience of nearly 1.5 million Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Sadly I was among those without an invitation. The Governing Body does not tend to welcome with open arms those like me who are critical of some of their teachings and policies.

But thankfully I have not been left entirely in the dark, and neither has anyone else for that matter! One brave blogger going by the name of “DrJohnChrist” who attended one of the streaming locations has provided a running commentary via a thread on the Reddit social network.

Much of the hype leading up to the Annual Meeting surrounded the fact that there has been a far-reaching shortage of New World Translations over the last few months, with congregation stocks running dry. This led to rumors that a new version of the English New World Translation was in preparation – and it seems these whispers were not wide of the mark.

It fell to Governing Body member Geoffrey Jackson to announce the new release. Revised into 21st Century English with a grey cover and silver edges, a revision of the New World Translation bible has been released today with the PDF version available on Monday 7th (presumably on JW.org). This is what it looks like…

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Nicknamed the “witnessing bible” (according to Stephen Lett), a large-print version will be available in 2014 followed by a pocket version. A large bible with wide margins for note-taking is also planned. The new bibles feature a “mini reasoning book,” an “extensive appendix,” a glossary, outlined summaries at the start of each book, maps and other references.

You can check the play-by-play thread yourself by clicking here.

A sexist faux pas?

Geoffrey Jackson pictured here with his wife - did he make a chauvinistic remark?
Geoffrey Jackson pictured here with his wife – did he make a chauvinistic remark?

In explaining the development of the new bible, Geoffrey Jackson is said to have commented extensively on the work that was done – which included designing a new font set for copyright reasons.

When commenting on the new bible’s appearance and durability, Jackson is reported to have joked that it is both “witness-proof” and “sister proof.” Quite what this means isn’t immediately obvious, but it could be that he was alluding to a stereotype of women as being overly fastidious as to how an item looks rather than its content and purpose.

While many Witnesses would likely shrug off such a remark, it was undoubtedly sexist assuming, of course, that these were Jackson’s words. You could imagine the uproar if a politician on camera described the appearance of any item as “woman proof.” It would also not be the first time a Governing Body member has made a chauvinistic remark from the platform, as certain videos featuring Stephen Lett and Samuel Herd will show.

A revised translation

It seems that, rather than being an entirely new translation (which would require a new name) this new bible is a revised translation – meaning that it is predominantly an updated and improved version of the original English New World Translation.

About two years ago I was informed by a translator in a non-English bethel that it was only a matter of time before the NWT English version would be revised, because it was originally written in 1950s English whereas subsequent translators in other languages have had the luxury of rendering bible verses in a more contemporary lexicon. This prediction was clearly accurate.

A number of terms have thus been changed as follows (according to the Reddit thread)…

  • “Long-suffering” is now “patience”
  • “Loose conduct” is now “brazen conduct”
  • “Fornication” is now “sexual immorality”
  • “Impaled” is now “nailed to a stake”
  • “Sheol and hades” is now “the grave”
  • “Revelries” is now “wild parties”
  • “Soul” is now a variety of words depending on context
  • “Kidney” now means “deepest emotions”
  • “In want of heart” is now “lacking good sense”
  • “Sons of Israel” is now “Israelites”
  • “Fatherless boy” is now “fatherless child”
  • “Alien” is now “foreigner”
  • “Ass” is now “donkey”
  • “Impale him” is now “to the stake with him” (a regression if you ask me!)
  • “Dumb demon” is now “speechless”
  • “Loving kindness” is now “loyal love”
  • “Jacob’s ladder” is now “Jacob’s stairway”
  • and Joseph’s “coat of many colors” is now his “special robe.”

Parts of the gospels that are disputed have been removed, namely the long and short conclusions to Mark, and John 7:53-8:11. You will be familiar with these passages as the parts that appear in small font in the original version. This adjustment will doubtless not meet with widespread approval.

It will be interesting to see how certain key texts often used by Jehovah’s Witnesses to support Watchtower teachings have now been rendered, but without having seen the bible I am personally willing to trust that no attempt has been made to alter the meaning of verses or distort scripture. I will know more once I have seen the bible for myself.

Though this bible revision first-and-foremost represents a straightforward improvement to the original English, the extent of changes (i.e. removal of disputed gospel passages and addition of extra reference material) should necessitate new versions of bibles in other languages. Otherwise you would have an English bible that differs significantly in content from its non-English counterparts. The question of how and when other language versions will be introduced apparently wasn’t addressed at the annual meeting, so we will have to wait and see what transpires. [Edit: this question WAS in fact raised during the meeting, and Guy Pierce indicated that other language editions WOULD be released, but not in the immediate future.]

Replacement for Watchtower Library?

A new application is also said to have been announced at the annual meeting by Guy Pierce, with the insinuation that it will replace Watchtower Library.

“JW Library” is reported to include five other bible translations, and will be available for download from Monday 7th onwards from Google Play, the Apple Store, the Windows Store, and Amazon.

It remains to be seen whether a price will be attached to this new software. If there is, this could prove to be a very clever and unprecedented way of guaranteeing extra cash flow. However, I would rather give the organization the benefit of the doubt and assume it is a free download until I am able to check on Monday!

[Edit: I am pleased to confirm that this app is free to download. Furthermore, having listened to the announcement, I personally doubt JW Library is an immediate replacement for Watchtower Library, since it is only really designed for touch-screen devices. That said, it would not surprise me if there are long term plans for JW Library to be the successor to Watchtower Library.]

Anti-climax

In the build-up to this meeting, rumors were rife on the internet that there would be another major new scriptural understanding, or “new light,” unveiled. These rumors were understandable given the magnitude of the doctrinal changes at last year’s event, in which the Governing Body announced itself to be the faithful slave.

In opening this year’s annual meeting, Guy Pierce could be said to have somewhat goaded his audience and raised expectations unnecessarily.

This is what he reportedly said, according to DrJohnChrist…

“Will important bible questions be answered? Yes. Proverbs 4:18. There will be new light. The righteous ones (Jehovah’s people) will get the light. Will bible truths be refined at this meeting? Absolutely.”

Did Guy Pierce goad his audience with unfulfilled expectations of new light?
Did Guy Pierce goad his audience with unfulfilled expectations of new light?

You can arguably excuse the “bible questions” remark as a joking acknowledgment of the number of enquiries doubtless received at headquarters as to the lack of availability of bibles.

Even so, if Guy Pierce truly said the above, then he was leading his audience up a blind alley. “Bible truths” were not “refined” at this meeting, certainly not in the sense that people would understand that statement. There was no “new light.”

Again, it remains to be seen what Pierce’s exact words were, but if this is a fair representation of what he said to introduce the meeting, then in my view his words were misleading.

Question marks can also be raised over the words of another Governing Body member. In his Watchtower summary, Gerrit Lösch is reported to have said the following…

“It’s good for us not to have association with relatives who love worldly pursuits. Are our children acting worldly? Using worldly slang? Actively STEER children toward baptism. What are your children’s conversations like? Can they sing worldly songs by heart but not kingdom songs? Do I permit my children to play with worldly children? Do they talk only about kingdom interests?”

Gerrit Lösch - did he urge that children be "steered" into baptism?
Gerrit Lösch – did he urge that children be “steered” into baptism?

Firstly, surely children should not be “steered” or coerced into making a lifelong commitment that they cannot fully appreciate until they have matured? Is this not a main reason why so many youths get disfellowshipped and end up being shunned by their parents?

As to the remarks about “worldly” relatives, inactive “faded” Witnesses including me will once more let out a collective sigh of disappointment at the “us versus them” mentality encouraged by the Governing Body – if this is truly what Lösch said. Deprivation of normal family contact and association is yet again used as a tool for control and punishment, as with the recent convention reminders on shunning (which all but admitted that shunning is a form of emotional blackmail).

The future is bright

But despite the disappointments, I take great encouragement from this meeting. If the above information turns out to be verified, as I hope it will be over the next few days, it will represent the THIRD major leak over the past 12 months. First we had the leak of the October 2012 elder’s letter regarding child abuse. Then in March the so-called “new light” July 15th Watchtower was leaked on this website weeks in advance of its normal release.

Now we have a thinking Witness providing a live blog feed from inside a tightly controlled and confidential meeting where use of social media was expressly banned. The bravery that DrJohnChrist has shown in getting the word out is highly commendable, and I am excited to think of what other significant leaks of information we can look forward to in the near future as yet more thinking Witnesses inside the organization decide to push the boundaries and make a difference.

 

John Cedars signature logo

 

 

 

 

UPDATE: To read my follow-up article, click here. I am now in receipt of audio files for the annual meeting which correspond with the above notes, and I can confirm the accuracy of what was written in this article based on those notes. I would, however, like to clarify two aspects of DrJohnChrist’s notes that seem to be causing some confusion: (1) when Gerrit Lösch said that God’s will is to be completed by the end of the millennium, this has given some the impression that Lösch was referring to the end of this century, when in fact he was referring to the end of Christ’s millennial rule, and (2) the phrase “bum witnesses” was never used in Lösch’s talk. The word “bum” was used once in Anthony Morris’ talk, but only in an illustration.

Further reading…

Related videos…

345 thoughts on “New English NWT Bible released as Annual Meeting is leaked online

  • October 7, 2013 at 8:47 pm
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    @ Tiger, oh and by the way Zecheriah is talking about a symbolic Jerusalem, and also not the rape of literal women. Read the rest of it.

  • October 7, 2013 at 8:59 pm
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    @ Shannon hahaha, I am sorry to burst your bubble, because its not as mysterious and exciting as you would obviously like it to be, but really there is nothing secret about the WBTS. All our congregation attended, even the kids. And what was said there, was nothing secretive, as it’s all going to be on the JW website shortly for anyone to read…ludicrous indeed.

  • October 7, 2013 at 9:07 pm
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    Jannet,

    First off, I really appreciate your love for what you have been told, a God that truly cares about you. Please believe me when I tell you, I in no way rejoice in what it truly says in that scripture.

    Zechariah 14:2 I will gather all the nations
    against Jerusalem for the war;
    and the city will be captured and
    the houses plundered and the
    women raped.

    Who is the I that is spoken of in the verse? the preceding verse gives us the answer.

    Zechariah 14:1 “Look the day is coming, a day belonging to Jehovah, when the spoil from you will be divided in your midst.

    The I is none other than Jehovah clearly stating that he is the one gathering the nations for the war and the result of the war he takes responsibility for is the women would be raped.

    No matter what my wife or daughter ever does, never would I knowingly punish them by having them raped. Never would I allow such a thing happen. Sadly the justification in many witnesses minds is that Jehovah’s ways are higher than ours, so he is always just, no matter what. However we each must ask ourselves a simple question. If Jehovah in fact was the cruel dictator that we believe Satan to be, would we cower and still serve him, or would we stand up for our daughters, wives and sisters or would we cower for fear of reprisal? Personally I would rather die than allow anyone who thanks rape is a fitting punishment for women, especially those whose guilt was following a group of men who strayed from the teachings that they had been taught and were doing whatever they want. Isn’t that victimizing the victim? I had a girlfriend in Ohio who was raped by her uncle. Her father who was an elder stood up to the man and took a restraining order against him. He was deleted because the uncle had to travel across town to another Kingdom Hall.

    Consider this, a woman who was recently raped in Dubai, reported the rape to the authorities, their response? They arrested her for adultery. She could not return to home country until she pled guilty of the charge. Oddly enough the Bible was written by such men. It begs the question, God’s book or mans?

  • October 7, 2013 at 9:12 pm
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    Janet,

    Please also consider the fact that after a brief period of mourning the Israelites could take the women from other nations they conquered as their wives. How did they do it? By means of intercourse, we today define clearly as rape, all the while with God’s blessing on the beastly arrangement. Imagine losing your husband and then a few weeks later you were forced to have relations with the men who killed him. I am sure that would not convince anyone who supported such a heinous arrangement that “God is love” Or is he a man from the middle east that claims the power of God, so that he can do as he wishes. He also explains all of his defeats as people being disobedient to his made up God as an excuse for his God’s inaction.

  • October 7, 2013 at 9:19 pm
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    Last comment I have,

    Why did Jehovah speak a plain and simple to understand law to a perfect man Adam, one that even the youngest child can comprehend, and yet he speaks in riddles and in language that can be interpreted in a hundred different ways? Please do not say so that he could reveal it later, as not one prophecy that the G.B. has interpreted in my life time has been true. All of them have been false. When they seek to pretend to know the future they are taking the position of a prophet, when their predictions prove false, they are at the very least a false prophet that the Bible squarely condemns. It does not make excuses for falsely prophesying as they do for themselves. I am sorry that all of this is true. I wish it wasn’t all true. I want there to be a paradise. I want good to reign over all of our planet, I want peace amongst mankind and even the animals. However it is just a fantasy, and I do not fault anyone for wanting to believe it.

  • October 7, 2013 at 9:30 pm
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    Janet – There have been countless numbers of people abused who have gone to the elders or written to the society and nothing has come of it. I was abused and kept trying to tell the elders. They told me to speak to my father, who is an elder. Speak to the person abusing me?? I then wrote to the society and all I got was a copy of an old watchtower magazine. Just because your situation ended well doesn’t mean that it is the norm. I happen to know that elders are essentially brushing children to the side when they go to the only people they know they can go to for help. For my case, there should have been judicial action taken immediately since my sisters came forward and admitted to the abuse as well. Maybe because we were female we weren’t taken seriously, wait, no because my brother went to the elders looking for help for us too and received no help. Every child I grew up with was abused in some fashion. I began asking my friends about their abuses because I wanted to understand what was happening and I was punished for it. They bring victims into judicial committees and let the abuser go free without question, even when there is two or more witnesses. Let me ask you. Do you think a loving god would want abuse to continue running rampant in his organization? Do you think Jehovah would have an aversion to the authorities being brought in for the sake of a child? After all, he loves all the little children. Children are a gift from him. Children are innocent and that is being taken from them in the name of Jehovah. Do you think that’s what Jehovah wants?

  • October 7, 2013 at 9:38 pm
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    was Yahweh, Yeshua or any of the archangels present at this reinterpretation? is there anyone of this world of form that is so arrogant as to think they can improve on the word of God? let he among you that has any truth in them speak it softly and gently within their own heart that all who have ears to hear might hear it … it is an act of blasphemy to claim this the word of God … it is but the word of man, and serves only man, and will die with man …

  • October 7, 2013 at 9:42 pm
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    and if your wife and three children all worked at that company, and after you were let go, were ordered to have no further contact with you and had to move away from you and neither party approach the other again in the future … would you still hold that company in such high regard?

    • October 7, 2013 at 10:22 pm
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      And if you apply to work for a company that has these policies in the first place what does that say about you?

  • October 7, 2013 at 9:44 pm
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    Janett,

    Please know, leaving was terrible, as I stood up for a young girl who attempted suicide because of being disfellowshipped. She was disfellowshipped for seeing her father who is not a witness that gave her marijuana instead of her antidepressants. He also allowed her to date a worldly boy while she was off of her medication and she caved to natural youthful desires. Instead of help she was disfellowshipped. Meanwhile the elders in our hall continued to cover by far worse wrongdoing. I was an elder at the time and can prove each case beyond a shadow of a doubt. I took the information to the Circuit Overseer and he ignored it. I gave talks at all of the conventions, but that did not matter to me. I did my home work and it was heart wrenching to find the truth. One thing I was certain of I could not support an organization that was run by men that was costing the lives of young children. I have personal knowledge of 4 suicide attempts and 3 deaths as a result of suicide, directly as a result of shunning of young teenagers and young adults. They needed help not shunning. People here disagree with the G.B. and their obvious lack of humility. All they want is the grip let off of their family. If they had not drawn such a hard line then there would be far less people on these sites. BTW I am not disfellowshipped, however I adamantly disagree with the WTBS on these and child molestation issues. I am over their false prophecies. I don’t try to correct everyone that believes in Santa either, unless they call me mentally diseased for not believing it and forbid my family to talk to me.

    I wish all the very best in your life. I too wish my family was allowed to think for themselves without being severly punished for using their own minds.

  • October 7, 2013 at 9:51 pm
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    @ Carlucci – Actually I have met Gerrit Losch and his wife. She is a charming, intelligent, strong and confident woman. Who knows, she may be the driving force behind her husband…..But you know, your statement seems to make it look like all JW women are poor little suppressed things, without taking into regard that there are all kinds of women in the world, just as there are all kinds of women in the congregations, from all walks of life, background and personalities. You can’t put them all in a box with one label. Some do indeed stay in abusive relationships, and not because they are encouraged to do so, but because it is the way they are. Have you not heard of the “victim” woman who is irresistibly drawn to abusers and seeks out the same type of men her whole life? That’s just one example. JW’s are not all cookie cutter same you know. I know many strong JW women and some not so much…..

    As for trusting the “8 men”, I have had no reason to distrust them so far. If there ever arises a reason for me to distrust them, then have no fear, I will.

  • October 7, 2013 at 10:53 pm
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    @ Tiger, I do not mean to sound demeaning, as I feel you might be genuine. But you really do need to make more investigations. You know the saying, all is not what it seems. For a start, you are right, a loving God could not condone, or support rape. Have you read all the scriptures where the rape of a woman was punishable by death, of the man who raped her? If that is the case, then it is at least partially clear that rape is not condemned in the bible. Upon further investigation, the passage in Zechariah is symbolic. It is good to not only to read the Bible from cover to cover, but also find out about the writers, the setting, or time time in which they wrote, the circumstances surrounding that period of time and the culture and history of other nations and places of that time etc… It is only then that you can get a clear picture of what a particular Bible book is about and its message. Trust me, you have still a long way to go my friend before you are justified in claiming the Bible was written by controlling middle eastern men who invented a God just so that they could do as they selfishly pleased.

  • October 7, 2013 at 11:04 pm
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    @ Tiger, so now I have at least some background info to explain your situation. Can you tell me please, were you one of the elders in the judicial committee handling the case of the teenage girl who committed suicide? And what was the other wrongdoing that was being covered up by the elders?

  • October 7, 2013 at 11:26 pm
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    Absolutely fantastic to see so many JWs commenting on here! There is hope yet that all of you poor misguided people will be free. The kind of disobedience to your org that you are showing by commenting here are the first steps to the horror of ‘independent thought’ and then you will have the tools to dismantle the mental cage around you. Let me be the first to (in the style of Morpheus) say “Welcome to the REAL world..”

  • October 7, 2013 at 11:35 pm
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    Jannet dajes tipicne komentare osobe koja vjeruje u sve bez ispitivanja. Vatreni navijac WTS.

  • October 7, 2013 at 11:47 pm
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    Janet give typical comments person who believes in everything without questioning. Ardent supporter WTS

  • October 8, 2013 at 1:12 am
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    There was nothing “secret” about the Annual meeting. They just didn’t want us talking about our new revised bibles until the weekend was over that way others who had it later than us can enjoy the surprise as much as we did, (I being one who went on saturday). Plus, all this “secret” information being “spilled out” will be published on our website at jw.org in a few months, which is open to the public. You guys are looking deeper than what it is. And the app is free btw…and it contains 6 bibles of your choice! You can compare all texts together at the same time! But yes, nothing was secret at this meeting and I’m so happy to be apart of Jehovah’s organization! <3

  • October 8, 2013 at 1:42 am
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    Jehovah’s Organisation? A church that protects child molesters and lay 10 years in bed with the beast UNO?
    wake up and stop donating. all they get they will have to pay in penalties and compensations meanwhile abut 100 mio $
    and that is Jehovah’s organisation?
    Dont be ridiculous!!!

  • October 8, 2013 at 5:49 am
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    Samiray,

    ****JW’s can’t claim persecution anymore because they are not being persecuted.****

    We are not being persecuted in USA but, look around the world, there are still brothers and sisters persecuted and put in prison.

    • October 8, 2013 at 6:17 am
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      If I apply for a company that has the policy of allowing children to be employed at the age of 11, and they have the policy of allowing children to make a life altering decision before they are adults, what does they say about the COMPANY? Your argument is still invalid. As I’ve said before, you may not be a JW, but the reason we care so much is because we have people that we love still within this organization. And we can’t speak or talk to them. They might as well be in Iran or North Korea. We will not stand on the sidelines, and stand idly as millions of people are emotionally manipulated. Change has never come to this world through apathy and complacency.

  • October 8, 2013 at 6:12 am
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    LOL. YOU ARE SO FRUSTRATED AND FULL OF LIE.
    YOUR INTENTIONS ARE NOT GOOD. I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU AND FOR ALL THAT FOLLOW THEIR WICKED HEART GOING AGAINST GOD’S PEOPLE. WHAT A LACK OF INTELIGENCE AND WISDOM.
    JUST LIKE SATAN, YOU GUYS THAT STATE THAT ARE SPEAKING OUT THE TRUTH, ARE NOT ONLY TWISTING IT BUT BELIVING YOUR OWN LIES.
    YOU ARE LIKE POINTING ERROR, AND PROVIDING NO SOLUTIONS, OH YES, THE SOLUTIONS YOU ARE PROVIDING IS THE SAME ONE SATAN OFFERED ADAM AND EVE, ‘there’s no wrongdoing by doing what God has ordered not to do’ (in my own words). THEREFORE, LOOK AT THE RESULTS. ARE YOU GUYS FOLLOWING JESUS CHRIST PATH? NO, NO and NO, AND NEVER WILL BE. YOU ARE A TROUBLE MAKER AND A REALLY BAD INFLUENCE FOR ANY ORGANIZATION, GROUP, OR FAMILY AND INDIVIDUALS THAT LISTEN TO YOU.

    WHAT A SHAME!!!

    ADULTS THAT ARE IMMATURE.

    Look at yourselves before talking.

  • October 8, 2013 at 6:17 am
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    FORMER ELDER,

    Where do you get this info about UNO from?

  • October 8, 2013 at 6:25 am
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    @justin you are reacting exactly the way they want you to. Angry, defensive, unable to believe that there is a chance this is not the truth. You have been misled greatly. You think you are special because you belong to a group that claims to be special, but what you read, see and here has been carefully constructed to give the impression that JW’s are special and unlike any other religion. If JW’s are the only group that are God’s people, and persecution proves that they are, then why are other Christian groups being persecuted too? THAT you will not hear about, THAT you will not be taught about in your meetings, because it doesn’t go along with the idea that you are special. The truth is the leadership has instilled upon you an elitist, self centered, us versus the world mentality, so you reflect the personality of your real masters, the men on the governing body. Check out persecution . org. Or simply google for Christian groups in prison. You will find that JW’s are not the only ones. Then ask yourself why you have been told otherwise and why these facts have been omitted when speaking about Christian persecution.

  • October 8, 2013 at 6:37 am
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    Carlucci,

    read, read, read. Our publications also mentions about other religions group that have been put in prison and so on. Jesus mentioned the persecution not as the ONLY thing that will identify the true servants of God, that was only one of the things among others. But the true love was the key. What is this group of Apostates doing to help families and individuals? Not to put things together to find solutions! No, you are helping them to be NEGATIVE people and concentrate in others errors and be ignorant expecting to find a perfect group or way to serve Jehovah.
    I’m not Angry, I am stronger now after reading with my own eyes how crappy and low apostates are.

    Thank Jehovah for helping me understand how misleading and wrong this apostates are. NO OFFENCE FOR THOSE THAT ARE NOT APOSTATES.

    • October 8, 2013 at 6:59 am
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      Yes Jesus said love would identify his disciples. I’m sorry to break it to you but everyone you think that loves and cares about you will love and care about you based on a condition. The condition of agreeing with them.

      So it’s not really unconditional love. It’s kind of childish actually. Not wanting to be around someone just because they don’t agree with you.

      All of the relationships that you have are conditional. So you should think about whether or not these people love you for YOU, or because you are following the path of least resistance and being obedient to the orders and answers you receive.

      Have fun “studying” someone else’s answers and repeating them.

      I’ll offer a kind piece of advice, and to be honest I’m just being straightforward so I’m sorry if this is harsh.

      Being outside of the organization is actually very positive. I no longer view other human beings with distrust, and I don’t view mankind as helpless. Yes, bad things do happen on this Earth. But there are beautiful people, doing beautiful things, that have so much love for each other. And all of this is not based on believing in what the other believes, it’s just about being part of the human family. Don’t waste your life thinking about the end of the world. I’d rather spend it enjoying life with the rest of mankind, instead of with a group who thinks it’s special, and with a group whose love and care for one another is entirely conditional on being complaint and having unquestioning obedience. I choose mankind. I hope you can too.

  • October 8, 2013 at 6:59 am
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    NON SENCE COMMENT!

  • October 8, 2013 at 7:10 am
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    JUSTIN!

    I think, that you are the funny, trying to defend the indefensible by attacking a person instead of facing the facts.

    You believe in false sepherds, false prophets. Lets see what the jw.org says:

    HAVE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES GIVEN INCORRECT DATES FOR THE END?
    Jehovah’s Witnesses have had wrong expectations about when the end would come.

    Consider this example: A lookout in a fire tower might see what he thinks is a wisp of smoke on the horizon and sound what proves to be a false alarm. Later, though, his alertness could save lives.

    Likewise, we have had some wrong expectations about the end.”

    Maybe they should had read this nice tale:

    A Lying Shepherd
    Fairy Tales
    1985

    Once upon a time, there was a shepherd who was taking care of a group of sheep. Every morning, he took them to the top of the green hills to graze. He spent all day with the sheep around the farm, and he also played a flute.
    Sometimes, without any reason, he shouted for help. It was his favorite to act that his sheep were attacked by a wolf. Actually, when he was asking for help, there was nothing that had happened, and everything was just fine. The people who believed him got there as fast as they could, to assist him. Then they found out that there was nothing wrong and that he was joking.
    Naturally, the shepherd of our story lost his reputation by lying. Furthermore, everybody knew him as a liar. The shepherd not only didn’t care about his reputation as a liar, but also, he continued doing his bad hobby.
    One day, a wolf rushed at the sheep, so he was afraid and really needed help. He shouted for help. The people heard his scream, but nobody helped him, because they thought he was joking again.
    The shepherd got very sad and disappointed because the wolf took one of his sheep. He also learned a lesson: that lying is a bad hobby, so he decided not to lie from that moment on.

    So what have they done with the humanity’s most important message during 100 years? Demoted it.

    Or some Bible verses would have been also be enough:
    Deut. 18:20-22
    Matthew 7:15; 24:11, 24
    Luke 21:7-8

    7 So they asked Him, saying, “Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?”

    8 And He said: “Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time has drawn near.’ Therefore[a] do not go after them.

    Do you keep yourself to Jesus’ advice???

  • October 8, 2013 at 7:43 am
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    Justin, unless you see for yourself, you have no right to say what other Christians do or do not do. I spend way more time speaking about God now than I ever did as a Jdub. I also love and respect Jesus more, and my personal morals, behavior, attitude have all become better due to the grace of The Holy Spirit. I credit the JWs for starting my love of God, because that is how I was raised, but that relationship is capped off with JWs. Too many false teachings limit the relationship that Jesus intended, mainly the fact that Jesus is God made flesh, not Michael the angel made flesh. Huge difference. Church Fathers from the year 100 have always known that “God became man, so that man might become God.” That is the whole purpose of the Gospel, that we are invited to see God and be in union with Him. Living on a paradise Earth is part of the plan, but definitely not the only part. Jdubs separate the 2 hopes, which are definitely supposed to be combined. Read Church History, what harm can it do? You really think Jesus lied about being with us until the end of time? And only started to instruct his people 1900 years later? Look up how long these strange ideas JW’s teach have been taught, some are heresies from the 300s like the Arian heresy, others like the 2 hopes is brand new nonsense. Sorry Cedars, for the homily.

  • October 8, 2013 at 8:16 am
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    I posted my last comment but I do not see it.

    What happened?

  • October 8, 2013 at 8:38 am
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    @ justin, you should also think about the big picture and what it really means to support the organization you so gladly defend.

    Thousands of people dying because of refusal for blood transfusions.

    Under what you believe, as long as the owner of a child bride does not commit fornication, he can continually rape the child and the child must stay with her owner. Not to mention keep any baby she might have. No rights for women, no choice. It’s very black and white. Can you see where the problem lies here? The world, life, cultural variety and circumstances vary widely, so to apply something universally is a very bad idea sometimes.

    Why do thousands of witnesses die refusing blood transfusions and no one really criticizes that but a baby dying from an abortion is a big deal and can lead to discipline? Are we being picky and choosy about what we apply the “sanctity of life” to?

    Funny, adults being disciplined by other adults. A bit strange I think…

    All I am saying, things aren’t as simple as: let’s just leave it in God’s hands or it’s God’s will or we must please God. Actually, you should think about the human cost and effect that beliefs have. When they become harmful to people, that is when they have stopped being helpful. Don’t think about only yourself. Think about the money that poor people are giving to this organization that are starving and can barely get by, and the organization goes and uses that money to settle child abuse lawsuits.

    Sickening indeed.

  • October 8, 2013 at 8:52 am
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    OMG he USED WORDLY SLANG!!!!

  • October 8, 2013 at 8:59 am
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    Ok, so it’s started.

    All you witnesses who are not apostates – you are well on the way to becoming one by posting on this site. If I were an elder and I found out you’d been visiting and posting on this site, I would be very cross with you indeed. Haven’t you read the articles on sites such as these?

    To those witnesses who come to share knowledge – John Cedars is a remarkably brave and honest man whose goal is to see the organisation reformed. He is not espousing a different creed. He peddles no religion at all. He presents facts. Whether you accept this or not is your choice.

    Please think and read this information. It is important.

  • October 8, 2013 at 9:10 am
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    Do you want to read another non-cense comment?

    Here it is:
    Why do thousands of witnesses die refusing blood transfusions and no one really criticizes that but a baby dying from an abortion is a big deal and can lead to discipline? Are we being picky and choosy about what we apply the “sanctity of life” to?

    LOL. So blind.

    Goodbye to all. LOL THIS APOSTATES ARe waisting their time. LOL LOL LOL LOL.
    “Let the time be the witness”

  • October 8, 2013 at 9:29 am
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    Reform the Jdubs, that’s hilarious. I had delusions of grandeur once too, it’s pretty funny now hearing someone else say it. A religion based on hate of religion is never to be reformed. (Charles Taze’s hatred of double predestination that was falsely introduced by John Calvin, never a Church teaching.) You have to go back to the roots.

    Justin, good chatting with you a little. Stay a strong Jdub, don’t get into the bad habit of just highlighting articles, and parroting scriptures taken out of context. Read your bible, or preferably a Catholic Bible such as Douay Rheims, daily and read all the main scriptures JW’s use in context. Pray, and try to remember Matt 5:22 when you label anyone like me a false Christian. Maybe Jesus was telling the truth and Hell is a real condition where wailing and gnashing of teeth really will happen. If you really mean all the love you have God and man, he will lead you to where you need to be. God bless.

  • October 8, 2013 at 10:16 am
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    @justin

    LOL you know what I think is LOL and ROTFLcopter is the fact that you can’t even defend your own beliefs because it is impossible to defend a belief system that has a lot of systemic problems.

    LOL that is LOL worthy for sure.

    My friend just got disfellowshipped I guess I will never talk to him ever again. LOL.

    My baby is going to die if I don’t give him a blood transfusion but I have to be loyal to Jehovah. I guess I just need to listen to his direction even if it makes no sense. LOL.

    I just got sexually abused but the elders can’t do anything about it since the creep who abused me didn’t do it in front of two witnesses. LOL.

    Come at me bro.

  • October 8, 2013 at 10:41 am
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    Yeah the blood issue is pretty much a sign from God that these fools are murderers, spiritually and bodily. Let’s insult the idea of donating blood and using blood transfusions, but let’s take all the fractions of blood we can get, because New York says its cool. Really, really? Cedars has done a good job going into some details of how silly their views are on the matter. But I would like to comment on the famous illustration of the alcoholic taking alcohol through his veins instead of through his mouth. Thise illustration is horrible, much like most of their illustrations, much like the illustration used earlier about leaving the JW’s is like leaving a bad spouse. I guarantee that if an alcoholic needed some form of alcohol injected into his viens to live, he would be on that and doctors would all be happy about it too. It’s as silly as saying that the people taking the blood in their viens are doing it for pleasure, and would rather drink the blood. Really? Poor writers of watchtower literature. I believe the illustration is in their most used tool for spreading their “truth”, the Bible Teach Book. God does use warning signs with false gospels, you just have to open your eyes and acknowledge them.

  • October 8, 2013 at 10:59 am
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    Jannet, I was completely immersed in my congregation last year when it came to light a friend whose home I had visited regularly for field service meetings, social get togethers and book study (back when we had the separate night). This person had a ten year track record proven, of abusing young boys. He was appointed an elder halfway through. The JW boys abused (4 to date have come forward) were scared to come forth and accuse someone extremely personable and well loved, who socially mingled with their families.
    My consternation was over the fact that not one parent was discreetly warned about this brother. I had to get one of my single dad friends to think and search the court records himself, as he has two boys that were in the exact age range of the abusers victims. Do you really think the process has changed, as I was incorrectly told? Parents tend to allow their children to work with others out in service and they should have freedom from worrying that an abuser is in the car. Instead of getting irate, please think long and hard about this issue.
    I was in your position, defending Jw until I read up on the Candance Conti case and in the process learned about the misquotes and flip flop’s in Watchtower policies over the years and the lifes they have ruined.
    I’ve also reconnected with the majority of my childhood friends and their siblings. More than half were abused by those within different kingdom halls and their parents felt they shouldn’t go to the police, in order to protect Jehovah’s name. Meanwhile, NONE of the children received proper counseling and protection because of a faulty policy and some are even shunned now for being disfellowshipped, after making the accusation, which proved true. Infuriating.
    Please, I beseech you, keep reading and asking questions.

  • October 8, 2013 at 11:05 am
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    oops, I got distracted and my first sentence should have ended with…was found guilty of abusing 4 children.

  • October 8, 2013 at 11:20 am
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    There is going to be bad people anywhere we go…we’re imperfect! If the Elder changed his ways…or not, that’s between him and Jehovah! Jehovah sees everything we do and more. You can’t judge the whole organization based on one individual. There are many who come into the truth with backgrounds of their life that are not acceptable. No matter where they attendteir religious gatherings/meetings. You think the Ladder Day Saints don’t have any bad victims in their church? How about Pentecostals? Or “Christians?” Like I said, there are bad people everywhere you go, what matters is who teaches the truth of the Bible/God’s Word…don’t let an imperfect person ruin a whole organization.

  • October 8, 2013 at 11:30 am
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    I didn’t judge anything based on one person. I don’t believe in allowing myself to be stumbled or offended by anyone else.
    I educated myself and tried to prove the JWFACTS site wrong, so that I could feel comfortable pioneering again and answering the intelligent questions my studies and teenager asked about Watchtower history and flip-flops. Please educate yourself before you blindly make comments that support a book publishing company that has deceived so many.
    “It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” Mark Twain

  • October 8, 2013 at 11:48 am
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    out of curiosity, would you mind explaining your use of the term ‘victim’?

  • October 8, 2013 at 11:57 am
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    justin – you need to stop

  • October 8, 2013 at 12:01 pm
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    How are you forced are you under the age of 18? No one is forced to do anything in the organization. If you say you are forced it is because you are not entirely convinced it is not the true religion, obviously you are not as tied to your conviction as you are writing.

Comments are closed.