Mark Sanderson makes an emotional appeal for inactive ones to return
Mark Sanderson makes an emotional appeal for inactive ones to return

Last night I was contacted by one of my Facebook friends who was facing a dilemma.

They had themselves been approached by a believing relative regarding the November JW Broadcasting episode, hosted by Mark Sanderson.

This new episode revisits the “Return to Jehovah” theme from the brochure release at the last convention, and beckons inactive ones to come “home” through a dramatic series of experiences and re-enactments – deliberately playing on the emotions rather than answering any intellectual concerns or factual objections.

Empowered by this overt propaganda, it seems some Witnesses are wasting no time in contacting their estranged family members to relay the Governing Body’s message, and this person asked me how they should reply.

I would never issue a script for this sort of situation, because I actually think it is far more compelling when individuals express themselves authentically on such important subjects. That said, here is how I would respond if I were asked to watch the latest broadcast and/or asked to come “home” to “Jehovah’s organization”…

I am touched that you have thought of me, but you should know I am already familiar with the latest JW Broadcasting episode and its message. My particular problem, shared by many who were raised as Witnesses, which this video does not address, is that I don’t believe the claims made by the Governing Body to be true. I cannot come “home” to any organization that teaches untrue things – especially to children. If you are convinced it is “the truth,” then please show me the evidence and I will request a bible study and start attending meetings. If you cannot show me evidence, or you tell me it’s all down to having enough “faith,” then you have to accept that your religious beliefs are no more substantiated than those taught by any other religion. I want to take this opportunity to let you know that I love you and think about you often and the happy times we shared together, and I hope that eventually your own hunger for truth will lead you to do objective research rather than simply accept everything you are told in one organization’s books, magazines and videos.

Obviously, due to the threat of shunning, most inactive Witnesses who are approached by family members will be prevented from being quite so honest. Any kind of statement such as the above that refutes the religious claims of the Governing Body would be responded to with severe punishment through shunning.

But if you are able to be honest with your relatives, perhaps because they already know how strongly you feel, or because you are, like me, disassociated (or disfellowshipped), I hope you will find the above response useful.

Harmful policies such as child abuse, shunning and blood transfusions aside, the reason we don’t go back is because it simply isn’t true. If we stick to that argument and refuse to be swayed or sidetracked by appeals to emotion, there’s a sliver of a chance that a friend or relative who is intellectually honest enough might start asking the hard questions themselves.

 

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The emotional beckoning of the inactive was not the only disturbing feature of the November broadcast. I will be addressing other issues, such as the segment on the Typhoon Haiyan video, in my next JW Broadcasting rebuttal which should be available at some point over the next three weeks. Please subscribe to my YouTube channel to be notified about this and other new videos.

258 thoughts on “My response to Mark Sanderson’s “come home to Jehovah” November broadcast

  • November 4, 2015 at 6:11 pm
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    I too received that loving brochure from my mother. I wrote her back a similar letter as Lloyds. The one thing I asked her was “how do you feel about all the child abuse going on in the organization that is hidden. This was her response via a text. “Received your letter today. You asked me to reply & according to Bible prophecy we know these things will happen in the last days & It will cause some people to do wrong & change their beliefs. But as an individual I will stick w/ what I know is the truth & worship our God Jehovah” Pretty disturbing but at least I spoke up.

    • November 4, 2015 at 6:24 pm
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      Sometimes it’s like bashing you’re head against a brick wall. I guess when ‘we’ went door to door we felt the same about people. Now we are ‘out’ and trying to get the RaF to see what it is going on we feel just as frustrated. When I began to wake up it was a ‘feeling’ that something wasn’t right’. Then I looked at my two df’d (adult) children and knew then that the society was wrong. It snowballed from there. Now I can’t stand being at the meetings I do go to. Just forcing myself to watch the GB in their studio doing the whole web broadcasting makes me sick. I’m so thankful I have this site because I know it’s not just me who feels this way.

      • November 5, 2015 at 8:06 am
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        Tara
        I read all your comments. You come across as an amazing person with great humor and insights.

        That aside…why do you still go?
        Just leave…..

        • November 5, 2015 at 8:47 am
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          Thanks for the nice comment Garrett… I like to think of myself as a covert, sarcastic, rebel :p

          I would love to leave but it’s not that easy is it. My daughter got reinstated so she could again talk to her friends…. she doesn’t really believe but the loss of friendship hurts her. My grandchild lives with her mother, a reinstated witness who lives in a different town, miles away, surrounded by her ‘witness’ family. One of our elders is related to them… there is already a custody thing going with my son (df’d). If I leave they will stop her seeing me. I have to wait… bide my time.

          I sat with my daughter at the meeting this week and her little one…. we left half way through. There were maybe 30 people there out of 120 ish. Most looked bored and were paying more attention to the kids who were bored and playing up. Same old hands up, same blaa blaa comments. I felt pity for them all and want them to wake up.. Most are nice people who are just brainwashed and gullible. They have no where else to go, or so they think.

          Who knows… this little bit of leaven may ferment the whole lump.

  • November 4, 2015 at 7:27 pm
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    I am reading a book call The History of atheism.
    One of the chapter talks about in the middle ages about the 1300 AD in Europe, if some one have some doughs about the catholic church or the pope or about god, or any question regarding the church this person automatically becomes excommunicated, but later the1500 AD their burnet any one who challenge the church. But before the 1500AD the excommunicated was thousands and thousands.
    The catholic church make an a piling to those excommunicators to returner home to the church, and the church will reinstate them.
    the reason the church make this request to ex-communicators because was so many and the church was afraid maybe these people they may start war and valance against the catholic church. so it was better for the catholic church to bring them in and benefitted from their donations rather keeper hem loose end expose the catholic church their lies and their false teaching. The watchtower following the same method like the Catholics by inviting the people who left have
    less to worry from the opposes if they bring them in to their cult house can condoling them and take their money again.

  • November 4, 2015 at 8:24 pm
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    I was going to wait for Cedars review of the November broadcast but I went on ahead and watched it. I wonder what my sister thinks of this November broadcast. The first time I was inactive she told me to my face the reason she hadn’t been talking to me for so many years was because I wasn’t going to any of the meetings. For me, my experience is JWS don’t practice what they preach.

  • November 5, 2015 at 12:20 am
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    Hi all !
    … as it’s now plainly visible on the wheat field, may be is it due time to pull up the “rye grass” and … burn it completely !

  • November 5, 2015 at 1:15 am
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    Pink floyd ‘sheep’ sums up indoctrination for me.

  • November 5, 2015 at 1:26 am
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    LLoyd, fair comments in your article, I suppose, because I agree in principle with them, and most of the comments by regular contributors likewise make valid comments on the topic. But things have been a bit quiet lately, no major blunders, no stuff ups, no miserable letters to the BOE’s been leaked, that we can consume with distaste and disgust… so this wasn’t just an article to keep the pot boiling?
    It does seem like that, lulls can be hard to deal with for people and momentum is everything. Without spectacular scoops interest fades. I hope that contributors remember patience is everything. There was a football coach in describing what seemed like a long time for his team to win more games quoted Confucius, “the ox is slow but the earth is patient”, and then there was the quote (from memory and ad lib) “if we have been treated unjustly… God will hand out justice, but if we are really blessed we will see him do it”.

    • November 8, 2015 at 3:03 pm
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      huh? Do you have a short-term memory issue? This is new stuff, the Nov JW broadcast. And the Australian HC isn’t even over yet.

      I’m sort of surprised that anyone would suggest there’s a lull and Cedars is simply trying to stir something up. Maybe you haven’t been one that has been gifted with the ridiculous brochure yet. I took mine with a wry smile, being handed it from someone who (I know factually) cheats on their taxes, has committed several disfellowshippable offenses that her never brought public, and remains incredibly hateful and petty.

  • November 5, 2015 at 2:09 am
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    Why oh why do they want us. Probably because they are bored witless. Not because they had much wit, but you know “no wood and the fire goes out”. They have finished character annihilating one another. The elderettes have no one else to bitch about as all has been said and done on the latest sisters naff outfit or incorrect shoes. They have picked holes in each others trousers hair cuts, beards, non beards and anything else you can think of. They are bored, bored , bored stupid . So now dear lost, faded, inactive , anti social, VICTIMS, let’s turn our attention to you. Vomit time. Weeeee luv you soooo much we want you to return to the weak and beggarly things> We want you to feel the guilt from the inside out and to never be good enough again. We want YOU to be the subject of our gossip and scrutiny because we’ve used each other up and have no poor fool to bitch about anymore. Are you not sad for us? THe elders are sitting around waiting, just for you, you naughty little sheep because you may be lost and if you come back they promise to put you in in the bosom position. NO they will beat you and fleece you and kick you again. Remember how good it felt to be so abused and hurt .that is all free of charge. There is a proviso you must give us all your bloody money because we haven,t got any . Give until you are wrung dry again and guess what we’ll kick you out again before God does it because we like to do God’s job for him . So dear little foolish sheep go back, go back and see for yourself how saccherin in large doses may have no calories but kills in the end. (this post is for ironic purposes only) ruthless/ruthlee.

    • November 5, 2015 at 7:42 am
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      I think it’s a legitimate post with value. It may not be scandalous or reveal some great secret about the ORG, but it’s relevant to what a lot of us inactive ones are contending with. The ORG tries to tug on our heart strings and especially those of the ones that are still in and that have family members who have drifted away. But they gloss over, no, ignore, any of the real issues and reasons why they are losing members. The brochure “Return to Jehovah” proves this. They list some reasons why people may have drifted away from the Truth, but most of those are superficial, “safe” stories that take no responsibility for any faults within the organization itself. It completely shields itself, remaining spotless and unblemished, as of course the chosen organization of God should be.

      So I don’t think this article is “click bait”, or just keeping the fire stoked. I feel like it is a help to those that have left or drifted, but are defenseless in the propagandist attacks and pleas to regain members in the religion.

      • November 5, 2015 at 7:44 am
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        Oops, I meant to reply to the comment above by “enuffsenuff”.

      • November 5, 2015 at 2:47 pm
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        I found the article enormously helpful! It’s very relevant for those of us who are being pestered by our families to come back to the miserable cult. Forewarned is forearmed I say, and for that I am grateful.

      • November 6, 2015 at 8:09 am
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        dismiss your concerns the Bible say: 1peter 5:7 ”while you throw all your anxiety on him, because he cares for you.”

        John 6:44 “No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him, and I will resurrect him on the last day”

        (Ezekiel 34:16) “The lost one I will search for, the stray I will bring back, the injured I will bandage, and the weak I will strengthen; but the fat one and the strong one I will annihilate. I will feed that one with judgment.”

        (Psalm 119:176) I have strayed like a lost sheep. Search for your servant, For I have not forgotten your commandments.

        (Luke 21:34-36) “But pay attention to yourselves that your hearts never become weighed down with overeating and heavy drinking and anxieties of life, and suddenly that day be instantly upon you 35 as a snare. For it will come upon all those dwelling on the face of the whole earth. 36 Keep awake, then, all the time making supplication that you may succeed in escaping all these things that must occur and in standing before the Son of man.”

        meditate on these Bible verses.

        listen to the November program of JW.Broadcasting tv.jw.org and tries to hear the voice of Jehovah your God

        • November 6, 2015 at 2:26 pm
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          “listen to the November program … and tries to hear the voice of Jehovah your God”

          Wait… what?

    • November 5, 2015 at 12:21 pm
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      @ ruthlee – kudos on your comments!

      The abusers find life rather boring when there is no one around to abuse.

      • November 5, 2015 at 11:11 pm
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        Yes, their running out of people to abuse so they need you to “Return to Jehovah!”. If I shared the wickedness I experienced in this organization most would say “oh, there must be two sides to each story” but its amazing how many of us share similar attacks against our name, lies, slander and accusations to discredit us so our truth might not reach anyone seeking answers.

        Allow me to share some Witness logic with you, there’s a Witness girl raised in since she was 31 years old. She was asked to do something that bothered her conscience, tell the person on the phone “her employer was not home!” only to tell her employer “please pay me in cash because it will stop my Food Stamps and Government Benefits!

        ” Do you see the insanity, she’s been handing out brochures “Return to Jehovah” but how can I take anything she say’s seriously when she has no problem with tax-theft but act’s pious that “I can’t lie and tell some tell-a-marketer your not home?” That’s what bothers me greatly about this organization, they abuse, cheat, hate, lie and act so evil and feel their doing the works of Jesus Christ?

        • November 8, 2015 at 10:41 pm
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          Sounds familiar. I know an elder-pioneer, well off with multiple investments who keeps his earned income just below a certain threshold so his family can receive government benefits and free healthcare. Somehow they manage to vacation in Hawaii and Florida yearly.

  • November 5, 2015 at 2:23 am
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    Return hell. What about this cult would I want to return? Give me one reason.

  • November 5, 2015 at 2:56 am
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    I am probably going to see my son on the weekend. This is going to play on my mind I am sure. I think if it wasn’t for his wife he would be a lot more open about it.

    I have already been handed that Return To Jehovah brochure by my youngest grand daughter. (She has been well trained sadly) I don’t think I would go being general like that, although I am sure we would pick our own tactics. I would try more facts than scriptures I think. The fact that they became an NGO with the UN, their disgusting history in dealing with pedophiles and their horrible practice of disfellowshipping is unChristian. They probably would hate me but I feel they have to be told. If it comes up again in an unrelated way, then they will remember that it had already been mentioned.

    Still, this is a good point for this article to make. What would we say if we are put on the spot? Maybe we should have something in mind if we are asked. Our answer might save someone from being subjected to this cult any longer than they have to. In my case it would be my son, his wife and their three dear little children. I still think prayer is important too.

    • November 5, 2015 at 4:51 am
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      Meredith, I think the simplest thing to tell them is that the Society is lying about 607 or have them prove that God is backing the Organization.

      If you go to that 2011 Nov. 1st Watchtower article on page 23 in the footnote, it plainly says that no secular authorities quoted in the article agree with 607 B.C.E.

      When you tell them that, they will say that we “need to wait on Jehovah” so then you can tell them that the Society has been proved wrong for over thirty years! So, they know, but lie about it. Why? It is because the whole religion will crumble and fall if they don’t stick to that date. It proves they are liars. Keep it as simple as possible.

      No matter how many facts you come up with, either scriptures or other facts to prove they are liars, most likely whatever you say to them will fall on deaf ears, if any of my experiences have held true.

      I have found a Youtube channel about narcissism that you can suggest to anyone who complains about anybody and that is a couple by the name of Smakintosh. If you just type in Smakintosh, their channel comes up. They have a wide variety of topics on narcissism that you can choose and once they listen to them, they will see Watchtower all over the place in the description of malignant narcissists.

      All of us know people who make us crazy with their comments or the way they act and all of us will relate to those videos in one way or another. What I love about them, is that when they describe these abusive people, we are describing the people in the Watchtower Organization.

      It tells us why we suffered depression all that time we were in the Organization because we didn’t “fit in” with them because the Society actually trains it’s followers to be self-serving and egomaniacs.

      We were always told how much better we were than the “world” because we had the only one and true religion and we could pat ourselves on the back because we were the only ones fulfilling the mandate at Matthew 28: 19,20.

      We were taught to “hate” anybody who didn’t think like we did and to hate anybody who turned away from Jehovah (Organization). We were taught to be sociopaths.

      If we felt even a little bit out of place in the Organization, it is because we knew deep down that there was something wrong with the religion. We probably didn’t see all our our friends and relatives and the people we worked with as “evil”. We probably liked those people instead of hating them, unless they came into the “truth”.

      When I think back, I was also turned into a sociopath but now I see why. It is because I was under the hypnotic control of Watchtower speak. I bought into it hook, line and sinker but now I can see the “truth” for what it is.

      I also couldn’t see the “truth” for what it was either for all those years. It took me months of deep researching to realize that it’s all a lie. There might be some who can wake up suddenly, but not many. What it takes is just one little crack, like maybe 607 B.C.E. or having them prove it’s God’s only religion. It is so hard for them to realize they have been lied to by the Society.

      Anyway, listen to some of Smakintosh videos and see what you think. Everybody gets driven crazy by somebody and their videos might help them see people for what they really are and they have nothing to do with “apostate” web sites. That is one way to help them see it for what it is without drawing attention to all the Watchtower lies. When they see those personalities as abusive, they can relate it to people they know at the Kingdom Hall.

      Also, Lloyd has mentioned about the worst religion in the world, that church that goes to funerals and screams at those people. I think it’s the Westboro Baptist Church and you can play those videos for them and they will see Watchtower all over it. Even anything about Scientology might help them realize how much of a cult it is. You just can’t bring up anything when it comes to doctrines in the Watchtower because they are too brainwashed to see it and will close their ears.

      Also, you should be able to use old literature now since at the annual meeting, they said that our literature doesn’t become outdated and so that’s why they aren’t going to be putting dates on the magazines anymore. They can’t claim it’s “old light” anymore.

      • November 5, 2015 at 7:31 am
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        Caroline, the best book on 607 BC which I have read is by a former Swedish Witness Carl Olof Jonsson entitled “The Gentile Times Reconsidered”. It was his research on that very topic that prompted the book.

        • November 5, 2015 at 9:36 am
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          Thanks James. I have read that book and I also highly recommend it.

        • November 11, 2015 at 1:14 am
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          When one compares the research and writing level of the 2011 WT article to Carl Olaf Jonnson’s, Gentile Times Reconsidered, as well as his response to the 2011 WT article, the scholarly level of the WT writers is woefully inadequate. It’s like reading an essay written by a high school kid compared to a graduate thesis. Why can’t the WT writers contribute something more substantial? Oh wait, not only are they standing on a toothpick premise–they don’t allow their adherents to go to pursue higher education. A high school essay is what you get.

    • November 5, 2015 at 11:09 am
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      Meredith, I myself had to literaly see with my own eyes everything that ex-jw’s were alleging was in print. I hunted down dozens of pertinent books on their false prophecies and contradictions. Perhaps you can start with Russels first book complete with Great Pyramid 1914 fold out and its manipulated measurements. You get gems like the false 1914 doomsdate, all annointed ones completed by 1881; making current annointed ones a contradiction or Highlander swordsmen.
      Another great book is Miilions now living will never die written by the great apostate to Russels teachings himself JR Rutherford. Break down the Beth-Sarim mansion as explained by Rutherford himself as having been built for those prophets that he was expecting to resurrect and ring his door bell at any moment. How he used that mansion as his personal luxury home in sunny California complete with Swimming Pool incase King David wanted to take a few laps upon returning.
      The list is embarrassingly longer than that on the absolute clear markers of being charlatans, but these are a few suggestions to get started and in the case of life long witnesses like me, I had to see it for myself in print, not just the interwebs.

      The very least that can come out of it as that both your son and doughter in law will be more sensitive to the non sensical ramblings of these 7 CEO’s and their ever changing interpretation of scripture.

      • November 8, 2015 at 2:02 pm
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        ….in case king David wanted to take a few laps of the pool ! Lol so funny that, haha

  • November 5, 2015 at 3:51 am
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    ‘Please come back to Sugarcandy Mountain’.
    Thing is we already know what’s there and it ain’t nice.
    The pigs may rule the roost but not my faith.

  • November 5, 2015 at 5:05 am
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    “This work was strictly voluntary, but any animal who absented himself from it would have his rations reduced by half.”

    Excerpt From: Orwell, George. “Animal Farm.”

    • November 5, 2015 at 7:25 am
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      Jake, there is a superb book by Heather and Gary Botting entitled “The Orwellian World of Jehovah’s Witnesses”. Well worth a read.

  • November 5, 2015 at 5:28 am
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    More proof the Watchtower is in financial trouble. They know that the inactive ones tallys into millions of individuals, which then translates into lost donations that in return value into the millions of dollars.

    Watchtower’s push on Armaggeddon adds an urgency to this “return to Watchtower” campaign for funds. They don’t care one bit for the souls (welfare) who left them, only the ” valuable things” (tax free mind you) that no longer streams into the coffers of the organization. As for truth? They make up the “truth” as they go along. What ever best suits the Watchtower’s financial bottom line is the only ” truth” that matters to them. From the days of CT Russell to the present. There is no single truth. I don’t think there are too many “Bible based” teachings so sacrosanct as to not fall vulnerable to reinterpretation. If the physical laws governing the universe were so malleable as to be subject to so much change , we not only wouldn’t but couldn’t exist. Since the existence of this universe ( and if one so believes it to be God’s universe) absolutely depends upon the stable truths of gravity etc. If these laws are not immutable. If these laws were subject to whatever interpretation suited God’s whimsical desire at any given point in time, the universe would simply disintegrate into chaotic rubble. Watchtower’s truths have never been immutable. They are amoebic often nonsensical doctrines meant to do one thing alone, terrify members from leaving. Look hard at the organization’s history. That is all it is.

  • November 5, 2015 at 6:06 am
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    I had typed a comment I’m not sure took… Mistake on email address. I was born and raised a Bible Student. They adhered to CT Russell’s teachings and separated from Watchtower in the late 1920s and early 1930s. When I first left, I was racked with guilt over abandoning my “heritage.” All my family back generations well into Russell’s day had been Bible Students. As time passed and I could see the doctrines for what they really were, I lost all sense of guilt and shame. I would never go back to them ever again, no matter how thick they’d try to lay the guilt on, or however earnest their intent would be for my “spiritual ” welfare, I would never return. I simply do not believe what they teach. Truth is indeed important for one to maintain his integrity, and truth is important to me. Bible Students and I’d say the same about the current Watchtower doctrines, are not the truth! That is all there is to it. If they can’t accept that fact, then that’s too bad for them. Actually I had been approached several times, but not in recent years. I was reminded of my heritage, as if I owed something to those who indoctrinated me from the time I was born. Nope! I do not owe them a single thing. Conversely however? I’d gain say they owe me a lot in terms of the years of therapy I incurred as a result of the mind and soul bending they did to me growing up. But that’s water passed long under the bridge. It’s been since the early 2000s since I stopped attending , and I have no regrets whatsoever.

  • November 5, 2015 at 6:22 am
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    @Markie:

    The WT certainly started out as a publishing company under Rutherford with free labour to distribute its publications. That continued for a while until 1990 when the WT changed its literature distribution program eliminating set prices for literature items. JWs believed the Governing Body instituted a “simplified” arrangement. Few know (including myself at the time) that the change really took place because Jimmy Swaggart lost his case in court regarding the payment of tax for religious books. In a February 21, 1990 letter to congregations, the Society explained the new policy this way:

    By adopting a method of literature distribution based completely on donation, Jehovah’s people are able to greatly simplify our Bible education work and separate ourselves from those who commercialize religion (new light! – it took the WT quite a few years to realize that they were doing it wrong. Wonder why God’s Holy Spirit didn’t tell them not to ask for set prices for literature in the first place?)

    However, this is what really happened:

    •Early 1980 State of California informs Jimmy Swaggart Ministries that tax is due for religious books and tapes sold in the state since 1974. Swaggart eventually pays the tax–$183,000.00–but sues for a refund. The case begins moving toward the U.S. Supreme Court.

    •February, 1989 U.S. Supreme Court rules it is illegal for Texas (and 14 other states) to exempt religious books from sales tax. Some states had been taxing religious books all along.

    •Summer, 1989 WT Society gives away “free” books released at U.S. conventions. Witnesses are instructed to place donations in contribution boxes to cover the cost.

    •June 22, 1989 Watchtower Society, files amicus curiae (“friend of the court”) brief with U.S. Supreme Court in Jimmy Swaggart case. Others filing similar briefs include National Council of Churches and Society for Krishna Consciousness.

    •January 17, 1990 U.S. Supreme Court rules against Jimmy Swaggart Ministries, declaring that the sales tax must be paid.

    •February 9, 1990 WT Society writes letter to congregations announcing that literature will no longer be sold at Kingdom Hall and no price will be set in door-to-door distribution.

    •February 25, 1990 February 9th letter from Society is read at Sunday meetings of Jehovah’s Witnesses across the United States.

    •March 1, 1990 New policy of distributing literature without naming a price goes into effect.

    •The March 15, 1990, WATCHTOWER magazine and March 22nd AWAKE!–printed earlier–still say “25 cents (U.S.) a copy” and “$5.00 (U.S.) per year.” The April 1, 1990, Watchtower no longer carries a price.

    •March 11, 1990 Announcement is made at Kingdom Halls in the U.S. that food will be available at no cost, on a freewill donation basis, at JW conventions.

    This info as well as the legal brief that was filed by the WT in Jimmy Swaggart’s case can be found at:
    http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/jw_jimmy_swaggart.htm

    Watchtower – May 15, 1960, page 295: “The Scriptures justify the ‘war strategy’ of hiding true facts from the enemy.”

    • November 6, 2015 at 2:27 pm
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      @dee – you missed something in “what really happened” there— you see it was published in WSJ that the Watchtower had filed “amicus curiae” during the Swaggert trial, then we had the famous “free literature” switch.

      • November 7, 2015 at 2:51 pm
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        @JBob

        Thanks for your feedback.
        I did mention in my comment that a friend of the court legal brief (amicus curiae) was filed by the WT in Jimmy Swaggart’s case. The link for the amicus curiae document was also provided in my comment………..it is certainly ironic that the WT scorns, denounces and brands other religions as evil but suddenly God’s Holy Spirit directed his earthly organization to file an amicus curiae in support of a man who belonged to one of these evil religions.

      • November 7, 2015 at 6:22 pm
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        @JBob

        Thanks for your feedback. I did mention in my comment above that a friend of the court legal brief (amicus curiae) was filed by the WT in Jimmy Swaggart’s case. The link for the amicus curiae document was also provided in my comment………….it is certainly ironic that the WT scorns, denounces and brands other religions as evil but suddenly God’s Holy Spirit directed his earthly organization to file an amicus curiae in support of a man who belonged to one of these evil religions.

  • November 5, 2015 at 6:25 am
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    The WT may no longer be earning as much revenue from the distribution of its publications, it however owns stocks (I understand that some of the companies in which these stocks are held may be questionable) and a significant amount of real estate – the WT recently made a $375 million deal to sell six key properties in Brooklyn, N.Y.: http://www.brooklyneagle.com/articles/huge-watchtower-sell-seen-boosting-new-tech-triangle-2013-07-10-140000

    Public records also show that the WT has received subsidies for its farms from the U.S. government:
    http://farm.ewg.org/persondetail.php?custnumber=A00359922

    • November 5, 2015 at 6:29 am
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      The WT certainly started out as a publishing company under Rutherford with free labour to distribute its publications. That continued for a while until 1990 when the WT changed its literature distribution program eliminating set prices for literature items. JWs believed the Governing Body instituted a “simplified” arrangement. Few know (including myself at the time) that the change really took place because Jimmy Swaggart lost his case in court regarding the payment of tax for religious books. In a February 21, 1990 letter to congregations, the Society explained the new policy this way:

      By adopting a method of literature distribution based completely on donation, Jehovah’s people are able to greatly simplify our Bible education work and separate ourselves from those who commercialize religion (new light! – it took the WT quite a few years to realize that they were doing it wrong. Wonder why God’s Holy Spirit didn’t tell them not to ask for set prices for literature in the first place?)

      However, this is what really happened:

      Early 1980 State of California informs Jimmy Swaggart Ministries that tax is due for religious books and tapes sold in the state since 1974. Swaggart eventually pays the tax–$183,000.00–but sues for a refund. The case begins moving toward the U.S. Supreme Court.

      February, 1989 U.S. Supreme Court rules it is illegal for Texas (and 14 other states) to exempt religious books from sales tax. Some states had been taxing religious books all along.

      Summer, 1989 WT Society gives away “free” books released at U.S. conventions. Witnesses are instructed to place donations in contribution boxes to cover the cost.

      June 22, 1989 Watchtower Society, files amicus curiae (“friend of the court”) brief with U.S. Supreme Court in Jimmy Swaggart case. Others filing similar briefs include National Council of Churches and Society for Krishna Consciousness.

      January 17, 1990 U.S. Supreme Court rules against Jimmy Swaggart Ministries, declaring that the sales tax must be paid.

      February 9, 1990 WT Society writes letter to congregations announcing that literature will no longer be sold at Kingdom Hall and no price will be set in door-to-door distribution.

      February 25, 1990 February 9th letter from Society is read at Sunday meetings of Jehovah’s Witnesses across the United States.
      March 1, 1990 New policy of distributing literature without naming a price goes into effect.

      The March 15, 1990, WATCHTOWER magazine and March 22nd AWAKE!–printed earlier–still say “25 cents (U.S.) a copy” and “$5.00 (U.S.) per year.” The April 1, 1990, Watchtower no longer carries a price.

      March 11, 1990 Announcement is made at Kingdom Halls in the U.S. that food will be available at no cost, on a freewill donation basis, at JW conventions.

      This info as well as the legal brief that was filed by the WT in Jimmy Swaggart’s case can be found at:
      http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/jw_jimmy_swaggart.htm

      Watchtower – May 15, 1960, page 295: “The Scriptures justify the ‘war strategy’ of hiding true facts from the enemy.”

      • November 6, 2015 at 12:58 pm
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        Everything you said I knew years or decades ago. It was no secret. Calling a religious institution a publishing company is really just being overly critical. Weren’t the magazines offered for $.25 and bibles $3.00. Other books for a buck? Jimmy Swaggert was selling his bibles for a lot more. He was selling them with a good profit margin. No comparison but if they had to pay sales tax the brothers knew they would be next on the states list to go after. Most of the societies money came from donations like it does today. They did not have large profit margins on the literature if any at all. So calling the society a publishing company is just plain short sighted. Seeing what you want to see. But they did sell off Brooklyn at a bad time and then squandered the millions on new cribs for themselves. If they could have waited a few years the would have gotten a lot more.

        • November 7, 2015 at 2:55 pm
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          @Markie,

          Thanks for your feedback.
          The only way that you and I can know whether the WT made a margin on the sale of literature before the new policy of distributing literature without naming a price went into effect, and what that margin was, is to examine their audited balance sheets. As I understand it, the WT does not make its financials public – this was evident from GB member’s Stephen Lett’s May 2015 appearance on JW broadcasting in which JWs were asked to donate their valuable things to cover a projected shortfall in funds, yet no hard numbers on income versus expenditure were presented. I also understand that the WT stated in a yearbook that no financial statements are published, as enemies would use them to hinder the work of the Society.

          Until we can see the audited financials on the cost to print literature and the income earned from the set prices for literature before the new policy went into effect, then we won’t know what the margin was.

          • November 7, 2015 at 4:00 pm
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            Also, it is my opinion that in order for a fair comparison to be done, then perhaps some research needs to be done into whether Jimmy Swaggart had his own printing presses and free labour to print (I understand Bethelites are paid a stipend – don’t know what the situation was back then) and distribute his literature.

          • November 7, 2015 at 4:44 pm
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            “…..if they had to pay sales tax the brothers knew they would be next on the states list to go after”.

            Yes and so the WT rather that not be the case as then the WT would have to open up their accounts to public scrutiny…….. something which the WT is averse to doing.

          • November 7, 2015 at 6:44 pm
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            ……..which brings me to another point – how do JWs just keep giving their money to the WT when it doesn’t want to disclose its audited financial statements and not wonder why this is so? Does the WT have something to hide?

            As you have said in your other comments: there certainly are stupid people in the JW religion.

        • November 8, 2015 at 6:20 pm
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          Also, it is my opinion that in order for a fair comparison to be done, then perhaps some research needs to be done into whether Jimmy Swaggart had his own printing presses and free labour to print (I understand Bethelites are paid a stipend – don’t know what the situation was back then) and distribute his literature.

    • November 5, 2015 at 7:36 am
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      Dee, I found this comment recently which might throw more light on the finances question. “I have a friend who has done a bit of searching through the Corporate Records Office. The WT are wealthy alright. Watch Tower petty cash reserves,
      Net Asset Fund $18,575,509,118.83… that’s 18 billion 575 million US dollars as at 9th September 2015
      Not bad for a ‘non-stock, not-for-profit organization’”. Hope that is of help.  

      • November 5, 2015 at 11:56 am
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        I would like to see proof of that. If they have that amount of cash they are smarter then I think. I don’t believe that is accurate.

      • November 5, 2015 at 12:09 pm
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        5000 ignored sex abuse cases in Australia alone x’s $10,000,000.00 each is $50,000,000,000.00 They are a bit short. Now lets play with the worldwide numbers…….

      • November 5, 2015 at 7:48 pm
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        The WTBTS is one of many investors who participate in a JP Morgan “Liquid Assets Money Market Fund” that currently has a value of $18+ billion. The Org is surely far from being broke, but the $18 billion “Net Asset Fund” figure shouldn’t be mistaken for their own petty cash reserves.

        I think there would be less of an air of panic in all of the Org’s recent efforts to save (and chase) money if they had that much cash lying around.

        I’d love to see abuse victims get everything the Org has, but I fear that the various court systems that will be involved will avoid setting legal precedents that could potentially have a devastating impact on religions more politically influential than our little cult.

        That’s not to say the Org won’t have to pay millions to victims. I just don’t think it will be as devastating as we all hope it will be. However, I do think that more and more people realizing that it’s a life-ruining cult WILL be as devastating as we all hope it will be.

        • November 6, 2015 at 4:13 am
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          For what it’s worth, I tend to agree that if the bOrg had 18 Billion just lying around we wouldn’t have seen the succession of embarrassing climb downs recently over construction and the foot shuffling pleas for cash on JW Broadcasting. This is a VERY proud organisation and the only reason they’d be indicating anything other than total financial stability would be if there genuinely were concerns in-house about the books.

          The overwhelming narrative they feed their followers is “Jah blesses everything we do and there are never and problems. This lack of problems PROVES God is with us.” The only reason they’d put something out there that ran against that narrative is if they genuinely had to.

          TL, DR. They’re not acting like they have a cool 18 Billion on ice.

          • November 6, 2015 at 6:43 am
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            I didn’t think they had billions. I do believe they sold the properties in Brooklyn and got close to a billion. But I do believe they spent all of it on their new digs. I truly love how they tell us not to pursue things in this world such as education because we are so deep in the time of the end but they are building this wonderful campus using all these brothers and sisters who really should be out in the ministry since we are so close to the time of the end.

      • November 6, 2015 at 4:25 am
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        @JAMES BROUGHTON. Does that $18 Billion Dollars ONLY refer to cash on hand?
        Does it include any Real Estate holdings or stocks and Bonds etc? How did your friend have access to that information or get that info? Can he publish it for us and show us
        the source? That would be powerful information to verify.

  • November 5, 2015 at 6:29 am
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    Come back to Jehovah’s organization………………..with your wallet.

    • November 5, 2015 at 11:44 pm
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      That’s funny!

    • November 8, 2015 at 8:08 pm
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      I looked at it and was mortified to see that the guy who murdered baby Peter has or is converting. I know we have to forgive but it came as a shock.

  • November 5, 2015 at 7:14 am
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    Lloyd, that was so helpful. The latest Awake! (November 2015) makes interesting reading with its article”Is Religion Dying Out?” Their use of statistics is highly selective of course and their conclusion is that theirs is the only religion that has Jehovah’s approval. I would like to challenge that. Well done on your response to Mark Sanderson.

  • November 5, 2015 at 9:16 am
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    Just watched the Sanderson video.
    Mark Sanderson is at least 30% body fat which is obese, yet he quotes Luke
    21:34 which says to not be “overeating”. The GB are clueless.

    They show the illustration repeatedly of the sheep and the Shepard. How appropriate!
    Sheep aren’t kept as pets or because people like the company. It’s a business.
    They let them graze on worthless scrub so they can fleece them for wool and eventually kill them for meat.
    Just checked. Lamb chops are on sale at Byerly’s for $14.99 per pound.
    Bet our wooly friend wasn’t too happy about returning to the flock.

    If YOU have strayed, …my advice? “Run Forest! Run!”

    • November 5, 2015 at 11:29 am
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      Lol. You didn’t mention their mental ineptitude.
      Is it that they save their own souls and feel better if they try to reach? . . . Box ticked.
      It’s not about me at all is it?, it’s about you. You’d die for me apparently, give your soul above your own to save my soul, I’d be right in thinking that wouldn’t I?
      Get this right Watchtower I do not bow. So what’s so difficult about a question?

  • November 5, 2015 at 11:17 am
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    To all my ex-jw friends who are having doubts about going back, please listen to this absolute must hear podcast on the subject of dangerous and life threatening religious leaders.
    It is one episode taken from Hardcore History podcast by Dan Carlin
    I recommend listening to the whole thing, maybe during your walking or workout time or as background while you work.

    http://podbay.fm/show/173001861/e/1366626424?autostart=1

    • November 9, 2015 at 7:02 am
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      I’ve listened to this and have asked my whole family to listen to it telling them its just fascinating history. Hoping they see the same crazy stuff in the WTBS.

  • November 5, 2015 at 11:40 am
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    Show me a Jehovahs Witnesess willing to die for me.
    Your a fraud Watchtower. Keep your sh t for your own ears.
    Your on the side you think is winning.
    No offence towards the genuine.x

    • November 5, 2015 at 12:25 pm
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      I watched the video with interest bc the way I see it the WT is EXCELLENT at propaganda. they take a few examples and make a short video about a few cases where Everything turned out “beautiful” and they lived happily ever after. Well, that isn’t the way it works in the real Worls for JW’s that leave the WT. They leave bc they see the real WT and the way they treat people and abuse thm mentally and physically many times and the fact that the WT has never apologized to any of it’s victims or admitted that they have made hundreds of mistakes and fake prophecies. When I saw the podcast it reminded me of a Jmmy Hendrix song that is a classic called all along the WATCH TOWER! In the opening words of the song he says,” Their must be some kind of way out of her” “said the joker to the thief”. So this website and many others are showing there is a WAY OUT OF HERE! I am including the Song by Jimi Hendrix. Please listen to the words.Much of it does apply to the REAL WT ..https://youtu.be/TLV4_xaYynY

      • November 6, 2015 at 5:26 am
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        From Holy Connoli: Here are the words to the Jimi Hendrix Classic All Along the “WATCHTOWER” AA lot of it applies to the Current Watchtower. I did a little self interpretation WT style!On this Song.
        ..https://youtu.be/TLV4_xaYynY

        There must be some kind of way out of here, ” ( THE JW religion )
        Said the joker to the thief,

        “There’s too much confusion, I can’t get no relief. ( The Wt teachings and cult )
        Business men – they drink my wine ( the GB taking money..the Borg )

        Plowmen dig my earth ( Publishers working for the WT )
        None of them along the line
        Know what any of it is worth.” ( following the WT and whatever they say )

        “No reason to get excited, ” ( The end is not near now so Accept the overlapping generation teaching )
        The thief – he kindly spoke, ( thief is the GB and WT corp )

        “There are many here among us
        Who feel that life is but a joke (JWs having their Awakening realize the WT is fake they got scammed)

        But you and I we’ve been through that
        And this is not our fate ( getting out of the WT )
        So let us not talk falsely now ( No longer promoting the WT and the WT is a lie )

        The hour’s getting late.” (need to realize life goes on and live our lives away from the WT Cult )

        All along the watchtower
        Princess kept the view ( Elders and Co controlling your life )
        While all the women came and went
        Bare-foot servants too ( pioneers..mostly women )

        Outside in the cold distance
        A wild cat did growl ( anger after realizing the WT lied to us all )

        Two riders were approaching ( the WT falling and imploding )
        And the wind began to howl, hey. ( collapse of the Ivory WT )

        • November 6, 2015 at 11:03 am
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          Well, Holy Connoly, you’ve made me pick up my Taylor, lets do this.

    • November 6, 2015 at 9:03 am
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      Ah Jake I just had to reply to you.Of course every jw would die for you thats easy because they won’t have to speak to you again. As for charity don’t expect a coat to keep you warm .I need my coat for MY pioneering it’s all about me. Also don’t expect to have a banquet of well oiled dishes you will have to pray for manna and the odd raven to give you meat. Did I say i’d die for you of course not iv’e got too many hours to put on a sheet in fact I really don’t have time even to greet you because i’m so busy in the work.I.m sure you are such an understanding person because if you get cross at me i will show you the imperfect card. I keep that with my blood card right close to my heart lest i should forget……. Out of dreamland now Honestly do we really want pigswill when bread and wine is on offer ? any takers out there ? ruthless/ruthlee.

  • November 5, 2015 at 12:14 pm
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    I have a polish person living with me. . He said. . What’s with all the fireworks? I said. . We tried to blow up our own parliament and failed so we celebrate it

  • November 5, 2015 at 1:18 pm
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    Beautifully and wonderfully said.

  • November 5, 2015 at 2:10 pm
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    Most JWs (including myself when I used to be one) get hooked on the idea that they will live forever in a world free from sickness, pain, suffering, death, war, conflicts, crime etc. Once they get hooked on this notion, that’s all that matters, they then just accept everything else that they are told as gospel, no questions asked. I have even heard some JWs say that the idea of living forever on earth sounds logical when compared to going to heaven – they reason that God would not have gone through the trouble of creating a habitable planet just for humans plus give man the desire to live forever if he intended otherwise; besides, no sick person has ever said that they are happy that they only have a few months to live.

    JWs strongly believe that their paradise earth is the solution to man’s dislike of death and this is what traps them in the religion. A JW told an ex-JW: “Once a JW always a JW you will return to that cult as you get older and your mortality becomes more of a concern to you”.

    I think it is up to each individual to come up with their own reasons why they would never return to the JWs. These are just some of the questions that I would ask any JW who wants me to come back to “the truth”:

    1. Do you know that the WT once taught that the millions of persons on the earth who would be alive until 1925 would never die? Do you know that the WT once taught that the earthly resurrection would begin in 1925, starting with the return of the faithful men of old such as Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to earth?
    (Millions Now Living Will Never Die;
    The Way to Paradise 1925 ed.;
    Kingdom Ministry Oct 1920;
    Watch Tower 1922 Jul 1 pg. 217, Sept 1 pg. 262;
    Watch Tower 1923 Apr 1 pg. 106;
    Watch Tower 1924 Jul 15 pg. 211;
    Watch Tower 1920 Dec 15 pg. 379
    Golden Age 1924 Feb 13 pg. 314
    Cover of the 1921 book The Harp of God)

    2. Have you ever done your own research to find out the number of persons who have been born over the last 2000 years? If all of these persons were to be resurrected on to the earth, how many persons per square kilometre would there be given that there must also be land for non-residential uses such as food production, forests, hills, mountains, valleys, recreational areas, industrial activity, transportation infrastructure etc.

    3. Would this be ecologically sustainable?

    4. What would this mean if all of the dead since mankind’s beginning are to be resurrected onto the earth, will they plus all the JW Armageddon survivors fit? Would this be ecologically sustainable?

    5. Would the earth look like what is portrayed in the WT’s depictions of the new system – luxury houses separated by many kilometres of parkland, a paradise of sparsely populated tracts of land, filled with smiling children living in mansions?

    6. Since no one will be dying in paradise, and given your answers to 2.- 5. above, will there be room for any children given that:

    i) the WT’s depictions of the new system show that children will be living on the paradise earth?
    ii) Isaiah 65:17-25 which is used by the WT to describe the perfect living conditions on the paradise earth states in verse 23: “They shall not labor in vain, Nor bring forth children for trouble; For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the Lord, And their offspring with them”.

    7. Are there scriptures which state that the earth will NOT last forever? Are these scriptures literal or figurative? How do you know?

    8. Are there scriptures which state that the earth will last forever? Are these scriptures literal or figurative? How do you know?

    9. Were Adam and Eve created immortal?
    If they did not sin, would God have allowed them to eat from the tree of life to live to time indefinite? (Gen. 3:22).
    YES: Why would this be necessary if they were originally created immortal?
    NO: So both if they did not sin and if they did sin, they would not be allowed to eat from the tree of life? What was the purpose of the tree of life then?
    I DON’T KNOW: But they definitely would not have been allowed to eat from it if they did sin. What was the purpose of the tree of life then?

    10. Is there anywhere in Genesis that God ever stated that Adam and Eve would live forever, except in regard to eating from the tree of life? Could it be that Adam ad Eve were in fact created mortal and that it would have been the act of eating from the tree of life that would have imparted immortality to them?

    11. What is the reason that God gave why Adam would die as stated at Gen 3:19? Would that have been the case whether or not Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit?

    12. Is it really because Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit why they died? Animals and vegetation did not eat the forbidden fruit, they did not inherit sin yet they die. Could it be that mortality is the natural order of life?

    “For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of animals is the same. As one dies, so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no pre-eminence or advantage for man over an animal, for all is vanity” (Ecclesiastes 3:19).
    “All flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of the grass. The grass withers, and its flower falls away.” (1 Peter 1:24).

    13. Could it be that the only way that mortal man can live forever on earth is by having children?

    14. Will people be dying in the eternal earthly paradise which the WT promises?

    The Way to Paradise, pg. 228 states:
    “……Some of them used to be undertakers; but since THERE ARE NO MORE PEOPLE DYING, they have had to seek some new occupation…….”.

    However:
    i) You Can Live Forever In Paradise on Earth Pg. 178 states:
    “Even under these best of circumstances, some will refuse to serve God. As the Scriptures say: ‘Though the wicked one should be shown favor, he simply will not learn righteousness. In the land of straight forwardness he will act unjustly’ (Isaiah 26:10). So after being given full opportunity to change their ways and to learn righteousness, such wicked ones will be destroyed. Some will be put to death even before Judgment Day ends”.

    ii) Isaiah 65:17-25 is used by the WT to describe the perfect living conditions on the paradise earth yet it states that people will be dying in the paradise earth:

    vs. 20: “Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who DIES at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.”

    iii) According to You Can Live Forever In Paradise on Earth Pg. 183, those Witnesses who survive to the end of the millennial Judgment Day face a further test when Satan is loosed to again deceive humanity (Revelation 20). Following this test, God will destroy those Witnesses who turned away from Jehovah and his government.

    15. So then, there will be people dying in paradise even though some of the WT’s publications say that this won’t be the case?

    16. So then, there is no guarantee that the JWs who survive Armageddon and those who are resurrected will in fact live forever?

    17. How will it be possible that the resurrected could die a second time when the Bible teaches that mankind will die only once (Hebrews 9:27)?

    Also, according to Luke 20:34 – 36, resurrected persons cannot die:
    “Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, and THEY CAN NO LONGER DIE; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.”

    18. So then, there will be 2 different kinds of persons living in paradise?
    i) The resurrected who cannot die
    ii) The JW Armageddon survivors who can die according to Isaiah 26:10, Isaiah 65:20 and Revelation 20

    19. Even the animals will live peaceably in paradise according to You Can Live Forever In Paradise On Earth, Pg. 164 – how will this happen? Will carnivores be magically changed to herbivores?

    Some prospective converts do realize that living forever in a paradise earth is the key ‘tactic’ that is used to reel persons into the religion – I recall while being in the religion, a JW mentioned to me just how puzzled she was by her non-witness relative’s response to her efforts to get him interested in “the truth”; he told her: No, he doesn’t want to live forever. She just couldn’t understand how someone wouldn’t want to live forever. But it certainly worked for her non-witness relative since she realized that once she couldn’t hook him with living forever in paradise, then he just wouldn’t be interested in anything else about “the truth”. This is probably the best way to get rid of JWs when they come knocking – just tell them ‘No, I don’t want to live forever’ and that should end the recruiting for them.

    • November 5, 2015 at 4:02 pm
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      @dee, those are some really good thought provoking questions!!

    • November 5, 2015 at 9:41 pm
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      Dee, that is what happens when you carry the arrogance of these false prophets. They have some inherent form of entitlement over Gods word to humanity throughout history.

      They completely forget that the Bible is composed of 66 individual books that were written FOR us, not TO us. They try to make us drink a pre blenderd version of scripture as you have demonstrated and sadly most will never fact check their twisted take on scripture.

      Most of their shunning policies are taken from the Torah, without going the whole way through with what it asks the people to whom it was written to. Instead on focusing on the lessons of integrity and faith, they nit pick at rules that Christ replaced to form their precious discipline rules.

      I no longer worry about trying to twist and wrestle with scripture that was not directed at me. My focus instead is on the free gift of atonement with God that Jesus made possible. I know that I should live a moral life and share the Gospel, not because I want to earn a golden ticket with God, but rather in appreciation for the fact that it has already been given to me.

      I don’t subscribe to the tin foil hat secret illuminati decipher ring elite Bible readers clique as before, I will not be guilty of the same sin as these new light fabricators. I will not be the guy that turns scripture into high school Shakespeare. I already have my check list, a very simple one.

      Live a moral life, check.
      Have faith in God, check
      Have faith in Christ and his redeeming sacrifice, check
      Share the gospel, while I live and let live, check.
      Sorry Mr.Sanderson, you will only lead me to hate Gods word through your tyrannical adulterated take on scripture.
      You seem like a good guy, but the only way I can trust you is if you pick up the torch where brother Ray Franz left it and speak the real truth, Gods word, not what comes out of the minds of seven men.

      Hope.

      • November 5, 2015 at 10:29 pm
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        Thanks for the feedback Robert.

        A possible slogan for your activist campaign?

        “Jehovah’s Witnesses……….Proclaimers of ‘soon’ since 1879”.

        Cheers.

        • November 6, 2015 at 12:00 pm
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          Dee,I mean the stones these guys must have, to completely and purposely twist a whole new Bible out of the Bible.

    • November 5, 2015 at 10:55 pm
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      @ dee…

      WOW….Very interesting points you make. Can’t believe how much selective Bible study we do as JW’s.

      Been reading JW Survey for a long time now and I’ve seen a lot. I’ve seen enough to tell me the JW is a destructive cult.

      I’m a regular pioneer (by title since nobody knows I’ve not been out in field service the past two months) but I’ve reported hours in my report slip. I’m a ministerial servant too and was reaching out to serve as elder until three months ago.

      In fact I was so “zealous” I was planning to attend SKE with my fiancee after marriage until three months ago. I read Crisis of Conscience, In Search of Christian Freedom and The Gentile Times Reconsidered. They were eye-openers for me. I realized almost everything I thought I knew about the Bible was a lie (at least as taught by JWs).

      Well, I still attended Pioneer Service School for a second time last month. It became very obvious that I wasn’t doing God’s will. It was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Excitedly I told a friend of mine. He lives about 13 000 miles from me. Told him this couldn’t be the truth as we believe it is. He asked me to report myself to my elders or he’ll do so. I did not report myself….he did.

      The worst part? He copied and pasted our entire conversation to an elder in my congregation. My Inquisition began. I knew there was always going to be one “winner”. Two elders met with me after midweek meeting on a Wednesday. I knew already what it was for.

      I mentioned my doubts especially 607 BCE….told them even a Watchtower publication admits secular sources say its 587/586 BC…and they dismissed that. The elder my friend reported to told me he doesn’t care about those dates since he hates Mathematics and I should honor what the faithful slave says more than any secular source because they do not understand Bible chronology.

      To make the long story short, I weakly admitted I need help from them so I’ll be let off the hook. I’m third generation witness and all my extended families are witnesses too. I’m an only son and I lost my dad (a devout witness till death) about 9 months ago, so my mum does need me a lot.

      She’s not educated and has refused to join a local language congregation (English isn’t my first language). She can read English well enough but needs my help to understand it well sometimes. My getting disfellowshipped would be too hard for her to bear so I played the “I need help” card.

      My fiancee has been very sad and depressed based on my new attitude to the “truth.” I’ve told her it’s not going to change so maybe she may well rethink our relationship if she needs to. And I’ll totally understand. I love her so much…and if not for my immediate family and fiancee I originally felt like preparing and inserting a dissociation speech into my next public talk, but I can’t.

      I may well lose my fiancé eventually, but I don’t wanna lose my mum or two sisters. So I’ll stay. I know it’s hard for my fiancé but I’ve told her I can understand anything she chooses to do.

      About a year ago I remember consoling her when she was depressed the CO asked her to drop pioneering (she was in university then)….She planned to pick up pioneering again after school so we could meet our goal of SKE…she has staunchly refused to look at anything anti watchtower even Bible portions that are against JW beliefs.

      The elders unanimously decided I’m no longer qualified to serve as regular pioneer and ministerial servant. They read 1 Timothy 3:8,9 for me and told me their decision was based on that Scripture. I was told I have seven days to appeal the decision….have five left now.

      Told my fiancé and she’s been moody and depressed since then. Told her I don’t want to appeal and that I’ve been given an easy way out without any judicial punishment. I really love her and we’ve been through a lot together. But right now our relationship depends on what she decides to do, and that’s still okay with me in the end. She said being a witness and preaching makes her happy. I love her, so in the end, I want her to be happy even if it means I’m not part of the happiness.

      The verdict is still out. But I’m definitely sure this is not and cannot be the truth and if I had my way I’d dissociate instantly…but I don’t have my way…at least not yet.

      I decided to pioneer because I felt I know so much about the Bible and just had to tell people about it. Reality has set in though…because I hardly know all about the Bible as is so beautifully shown in your comments here @ dee and many other comments I’ve read over the past couple of months. And a huge part of teaching people the Bible as a witness is telling them Jehovah’s witnesses are the true religion and the only ones doing God’s will.

      I don’t believe that anymore.

      Thank you everyone for all you do and have done. I’ll be forever grateful. Thanks too Lloyd.

      • November 6, 2015 at 12:31 am
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        My heart goes out to you, sounds like a terrible predicament. It could be worse, you have many options now. You need to find advice from someone who you admire and trust who is not part in parcel with this mind controlling cult. Look outside to family or friends who have found a measure of happiness and seek guidance.

        • November 7, 2015 at 12:07 am
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          Thank you Ready to fade

          I’ll see how the next couple of months go.

      • November 6, 2015 at 1:29 am
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        Thanks for your story Homer, it’s heartfelt. It’s also my first post here. Quit being an elder end of september. Dropped the A-bomb during the CO’s visit. Couldn’t take the hypocrisy anymore. The rabbit hole was so much deeper than I’d ever expected. My wife and children think the same, that’s a blessing. Now I’m playing weak, just like you. It’s best for me and my family because I’ve already talked too much regarding 607 bce and the handling of sexual abuse victims. I must skip under the radar of my former fellow WT police elders. Wish you all the best regarding your situation!

        • November 6, 2015 at 10:44 am
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          Redpill, I assume that’s a Matrix reference, which is perfect. How can any of us allow ourselves to be plugged back in, lulled into a false sence of security only to be used and abused all over again.

          I hope we’ve all learned our lesson and keep an eye out for anyone pushing their own “must have religion” or lack of religion, which would just put us into the negative. There is a great book called The Signature of God, which is a resounding fortifier of faith in the Bible as Gods word.

          • November 13, 2015 at 7:54 am
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            Thanks Robert, you were right about the Matrix reference. I have two baptisms behind me, one as a Roman Catholic baby, and one as a JW in 1996. I really thought I took the red pill, I WANTED to know the (WT) truth. I could have never imagined that there would be so much distortion of secular evidence regarding 607 BCE and 1914 and so much misquotations in order to back up the Bible with science. Sowhat did I do? Yup, I took the red pill TWICE. Just like Neo, I felt sick (betrayed) again. First in 1995 by what WT told me about RC and false religion and now, 20 years later by that same WT, that simply cannot make a valid scientifical/archeological point without lots of cherry picking and out-of-context quotation. I’m glad I haven’t lost my critical thinking, but I’m frustrated as well. The “truth” was so beautiful but sadly enough, it wasn’t that one true red pill where I was longing for my entire life, although it did good things, like keeping me away from cursing, smoking and drugs. After two baptisms and two red pills, I’m looking for some good balance in my life. I consider myself mentally strong, but I tell you, it’s still not easy. I don’t want to become an atheist (I’ve Always been very much into the Intelligent Design movement, love Stephen C. Meyer’s books)and I still love bible reading with my family. It feels like a very little congregation, but without pressure or mind control. Still strange though… Will be needing you all here on this great website…big ((hugs)), Richard.

        • November 7, 2015 at 12:09 am
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          Thanks Redpill

          I’m happy about your family sees things the way you do.

          I hope mine will eventually understand I’m not being a tool of Satan but actually saying the truth.

      • November 6, 2015 at 5:04 am
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        @Homer. Homer that is a difficult situation for you. Very difficult and I do understand.
        It must be torture for you right now but you show a great attitude and very unselfish with your honesty with your Fiancee and how you said whatever she decides is fine with you bc you want her to be happy. Great attitude you have. I was a former long time Elder and when I realized it was a scam I had to step down and fade away. It has been almost 20 years now but my wife has been a hard nosed pioneer all that time and still is today so I had to find other friends and activities to do since from my late teens I became a JW so all of your friends and life gets involve with the JW’s.Try to take it slow and I understand why you cannot at this time completely leave with your Mothers situation etc.Little by Little things will get better. It is amazing that a religion has that much power over us isn’t it? How they effect our families and they use fear to keep people in the ORG instead of love.

        The fact that you shared some feelings with that Brother and he turned you in to the Elders in your ong for “EXPRESSING” yourself is the same as Communism. That is what people did in Soviet Union and/or East Germany. If you were caught expressing yourself or NOT towing party line you would be reported to the party!
        Then they would send you to a “RE-EDUCATION CAMP” to brainwash you again and make sure you thought what they wanted you to think. The Motto is TRUST NO ONE and in reality it is not much different in the WT. They will report you to the Authorities ( Elders ) Ihad a similar situation myself Homer in that I did not want my family to shun me so I faded and I did not want my children shun me.
        Today only 1 of my 3 kids are JW’s. the others faded and we talk about it among us. The wife is still pioneering and everything turns into an argument if you bring up the flip flop changes or weird teachings and duff prophecies of the WT.
        You will be fine Homer. It will just take some time. All the Best

        • November 7, 2015 at 12:05 am
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          Holy Connoli,

          Thank you.

          I’ll take it all gradually. My fiancé told me she’ll decide in the next couple of days, so I’ll see how it goes then.

          I told her I’m expressing how I feel now so that she wont feel I tricked her into marriage. So want her to make her choice.

          It’s Saturday morning here and three months ago I’d be on my way to field service now. But I can’t do that anymore.

          Sorry about your wife. It’s sad but true that some witnesses will never wake up.

          Best wishes.

      • November 6, 2015 at 5:25 am
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        @Homer
        I’m so happy and sad for you as we’ll friend. I’m still on the inside but haven’t been identified yet. The John Cedars youtube channel has a fantastic tutorial on how to slowly fade out without raising too many alarms if that is your goal.

        By staying I’ve been able to lead others to important ex-jw articles without giving myself away and then build on that with healthy eye opening conversations on what ex-jw’s have figured out. I read the Bible more than ever now as I no longer feed off of the Faithful Slaves spiked table and do not wish to starve out spiritually. The letter Paul wrote to the Colosseans is a constant true North for me that reminds me what my focus should be on.

        I would suggest you increase your own reading and constantly share in conversations of scripture with your mother as your participation in different “theocratic” activities fades down. These conversations should lead your mother to a greater zeal in Gods word, one that trumps that, which she has for the GB and also reassure her of your faith in scripture.

        Remember 1 Timothy 2:3,4
        “This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.”
        Pray over the matter, tell God what your plans are and where you’ll need help. If anyone knows the truth about this cult, its him. Make your new religion your own personal relationship with God in the light of scripture, not books and magazines about scripture.

        True the Bible states that all scripture is beneficial and I agree, but your going to have to figure out and perhaps write down those few things that truly do apply to you. In this new personal Church or congregation you will have to be a regular attendee, because your faith in scripture will dwindle away and eventually die.
        You have seen for yourself what organized religion does with Gods word. The right church can be a wonderful blessing that brings us closer to God. The wrong church can be just the opposite. Whether or not a particular church is “right” or “wrong” depends on whether or not it helps YOU. It might be the right church for you and the wrong one for me. However, none of us have to go to church to be saved. All we have to do is seek a relationship with God through Christ. If going to church strengthens that relationship, by all means, go. If it does not, put that same time and energy into something that does strengthen it, like simply talking to God through prayer.

        Remember, you are already saved and God loves you unconditionally. Yes, unconditionally. Christ died that all might live. Yes, we are called to live in the image of Christ, but God created us as human (fallible) beings and does not reject us for what we do. Our repentance immediately brings His forgiveness. Even without repentance, God loves us, though He may not love our actions or thoughts or words.
        How different from the anti biblical auto shunning policies of this doomsday cult.
        Welcome to the truth

        • November 6, 2015 at 9:23 am
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          That wonderful advice. I think I am going to use my King James Bible that my parents bought me when I was confirmed into the CoE. I was 13 then. Not coerced or threatened. Not told I would die if I didn’t…. My love for God was pure and from the heart then. Thanks Robert :)

        • November 6, 2015 at 11:58 pm
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          It just didn’t feel right that JW feel they’re the only ones who understand the Bible. As if it were written to them.

          So all these past centuries nobody understood the Bible? Pathetic reasoning!

          I had never believed we’re the only ones who will be saved and I never preached that. I remember an unbaptized witness roommate telling me that there are people out there in churches more devoted to God and who were better than the average witness. I agreed with him wholeheartedly without trying to do “mental gymnastics” on him.

          About two weeks ago here I heard a brother comment that the worst witness is better than the best “worldly” person as an encouragement for sisters to marry only in the lord. I could only shake my head in disgust.

          • November 7, 2015 at 8:20 am
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            I would never marry a witness…. maybe one who has woken up. At least that way we could have a belief in God without the balls and chains of organised religion.

      • November 6, 2015 at 8:40 am
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        What a friend. I think Geoffrey Jackson should be removed too. He said that it would be presumptuous from him to assume that the GB is God soul mouth piece on earth. If I said that I would be removed too.
        I am in a similar position as you. My wife is a pioneer and constantly takes my children in field service. Which is fine.
        I think one should never take what the GB says as the absolute truth. First mistake of most people on this website. The apostles were wrong and they had Jesus to talk to. The GB are just presumptuous imperfect men that’s why I did what I wanted to do about education etc….There is no religion on earth that is perfect. I am one who hopes there is a god out there somewhere and hopefully he will return his attention back to the earth someday. So what I do is concentrate on helping and being friendly to those in my congregation that are on the fringes. That’s how I copy with all the stupid people at the hall.

        • November 6, 2015 at 9:24 am
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          Interesting point you raised markie! You mentioned G Jackson’s odd comment about not presuming that they are the sole channel of God right now on earth. Boy oh boy what is it the elders trot out when they are on a witch hunt? Is it not something like “Do you think the GB are God’s spirit directed org?” if you say yes then aok , if you say no You are for the chop. So where does that leave Mr Jackson. He implied there may be others God is using. If so God is compromised or he is ummm. I wonder what his judicial will sound like. Would make for interesting reading. ruthlee

          • November 6, 2015 at 10:31 am
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            He compromised himself. Plain and simple. Yet he ill judge other people. Like the bible says never put your trust in earthling man. And that includes them.

          • November 6, 2015 at 11:14 am
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            ruthlee,

            The context of Jackson’s words are that it would be another JW that could be the mouthpiece. Of course, this individual would have to time their revelation to match perfectly with the gb’s or they would be disfellowshipped for running ahead of God’s chariot!!

            Jackson is not stating that a non JW could be a channel for God.

            The bible says clearly that anyone can be a mouthpiece for God. Anyone who loves is in union with God and with Jesus Christ. 1 John 4

            Peace be with you, Excelsior!

      • November 6, 2015 at 9:18 am
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        Really feel for you Homer. When you sit and listen to the stuff that comes from the platform it just makes you realize it’s not the truth.
        Your fiancee has to walk her own path and that is so generous of you to let her do it. She may eventually take another look on her own at what is being taught. It’s so frustrating to know how many are trapped within the Borg. just so we don’t loose our family or friends. That in itself tells us how cruel it is.
        Hang in there dear one. You have new friends in your corner now. Many in the same situation as you. Big hug.

        • November 6, 2015 at 11:45 pm
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          So true Tara….some witnesses will actually never wake no matter what evidence there is. I can only hope my fiancé isn’t like that. But I can’t force my opinions on her.

          It’s some consolation to know I’m not alone. Many others are trapped too.

          Big hugs too

      • November 6, 2015 at 11:21 am
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        Homer,

        You are indeed like Odysseus on an odyssey!

        There is one rule to follow in your situation and that is to be loving.

        I hope that your fiancé comes to understand and appreciate your decisions. She is lucky to have someone like you in her life.

        In the short term, follow my patented formula – praise “Jehovah God’s spirit directed organisation”

        Praise the elders (flattery is a powerful weapon).

        Say nothing negative about “The Truth”

        This will give you some time and room to breathe.

        Be there for your Mum. I lost my Dad to cancer 4 years ago, so I have some idea what you are going through.

        I hope that we can help you in this very trying time. We do want to.

        Peace be with you, Excelsior!

        • November 6, 2015 at 11:32 pm
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          Excelsior….Sorry about your loss. My dad died from diabetic complications. Suffered a stroke. Actually died in my arms.

    • November 6, 2015 at 11:38 pm
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      Thank you everyone for your kind and encouraging words. They were the best gifts I received yesterday.

      The elders told me yesterday that I will no longer be in charge of literature in the congregation anymore. I was supposed to read paragraphs during Watchtower study on Sunday but I was told not to worry about it anymore.

      I really can’t wait for the announcement that I’m no longer serving as ministerial servant and regular pioneer. They were shocked when I told them I won’t appeal their decision to review my qualifications. The look on their faces was: “This dude is really spiritually weak.”

      I feel much better now. I had volunteered to go to an unassigned territory over here all of next week. I was told I can’t go anymore (still happy of course).

      I know when the announcement is made, everyone will suspect immorality as usual to be the cause of my “downfall”. That’s their business. I don’t care about that.

      As for my fiancé, I asked her some thought-provoking questions: “What if you later wake up and realize you’ve been living a lie all along? What if you’re married to an over-righteous elder by then who will never understand the pain and anger you’ll feel then? Will you ever forgive yourself for letting me and our years together go because of Watchtower?” She was speechless. I continued: “I want to be there for you when you wake up. I want to walk that path with you when you choose to do it. I want to help make the process less painful and frustrating for you.”

      I believe she’ll see through it all someday. But that’s merely wishful thinking and it’s entirely up to her. I’ve told her several times that whatever she decides to do, I’ll respect that. Time will tell the tale.

      As for my mum and siblings, I believe it’ll be a slow process. But I’ll be completely patient with them.

      For me, going to meetings now is torture. I can literally pick apart everything they say there. It’s sad that after the announcement everyone will be sad and feel pity for me since they were all looking forward to my qualifying to serve as elder (been a ministerial servant for six years now…since I was 18). And I was so close to being appointed elder. Doesn’t matter anymore to me.

      For now, I’ll play the “I need help” card perfectly whilst praising the organization for being “Jehovah’s sole channel for survival.” My acting skills are not bad…Lol…I’ve been in several convention dramas (part of why I’m very popular among the witnesses in my city) so I’ll put my skills to good use.

      Thanks again everyone.

      • November 8, 2015 at 1:59 pm
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        @Homer

        I see you have received lots of encouragement and suggestions about your situation. You certainly have the right attitude as that is the key thing that will help you deal successfully with the situation. I am glad that you have realized that the elders’ treatment of you is nothing but a game because that’s what it really is and you seem to be playing along quite well.

        Don’t mind those elders. They consider their reality to be the ONLY reality. The GB has won their loyalty by flattering them with niceties:
        – the spirit-anointed overseers or bodies of elders are the angels referred to in the seven letters of Revelation 2 – 3 (Revelation Its Grand Climax At Hand pg. 28 – 29);
        – elders will be ‘princes in all the earth’ in the new system of things (Psalm 45:16).

        Their stripping you of your privileges was just a way to coerce you to recant as they really thought that you wanted those privileges badly. They are shocked because they thought that losing your privileges would be such a blow to your ego that you would abandon any doubts which you may have about the organization.

        I know the disgust you feel after realizing that you have been fed lies and would therefore want the congregation to hear directly from you the reasons why you are disassociating as the elders certainly aren’t going to disclose these reasons to the congregation. But as you have realized you would risk being cut-off from your family (you may find the following suggestions on how to exit the cult gracefully without being announced as disassociated, to be of interest if you have not already viewed this info: https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/wiki/index#wiki_exit_guide ; scroll down to see the Exit Guide).

        What a shame that you will have to subject yourself to torture just so that you won’t be cut-off from your family for leaving the cult. Leaving a religion should never mean losing your family. You should never be punished for exercising your fundamental right to freedom of religion and freedom of conscience. Apparently only the JWs are entitled to these freedoms and no one else. They are quick to cry foul when they are not allowed to exercise these rights.

        I am sure that you have been discovering that there is quite a bit of information available to help persons free their minds of the JW cult. One book which I have found to be of interest is the book by M. James Penton: Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah’s Witnesses, 3rd. edition.
        One can clearly see from reading this book that what the JWs call “the truth” is nothing more than a permutation and combination of doctrines that existed prior to and during the time that their founder Charles Taze Russell was alive (I suppose God’s Holy Spirit told Charles Taze Russell which permutation and combination of theologies to choose. LOL!).

        Do hope that your fiancé and other family members will come around with time.

        “Patience is bitter but its fruit is sweet”. Aristotle.

  • November 5, 2015 at 10:38 pm
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    Intellectual honesty. That is what it all comes down to.

  • November 6, 2015 at 5:46 am
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    We all remember Jones town suicide from the Religion of Jim Jones where over 900 followers drank the poison laced Kool aid and committed suicide together around maybe 1980? Everyone agrees this was a CULT. I found a intriguing comment from a survivor of that tragic event and when you read it tell me EXACTLY what current religion it reflects? Here is th e quote and where you can find it. To me this is EXACTLY what the WT religion is.
    Here is a chilling quote everyone needs to ponder:

    “…When our own thoughts are forbidden, when our questions are not allowed and our doubts are punished; when contacts & friendships outside of the organisation are censored, we are being abused for an end that never justifies its means. When our heart aches knowing we have made friendships and secret attachments that will be forever forbidden if we leave, we are in danger. When we consider staying in a group because we cannot bear the loss, disappointment and sorrow our leaving will cause for ourselves and those we have come to love, we are in a cult.”—-Deborah Layton, Jonestown survivor. (from the book: Seductive Poison, page 299. Anchor Books, New York, 1998)

    You never know you are in a cult until you try to leave

  • November 6, 2015 at 7:58 am
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    You know? When the watchtower society and the leaders get to this point in this day and age of free information where they are appealing to people as ‘sheep’ to come back, then the GB is in a real state of denial and delusion. This ‘sheep’ and ‘rye grass’ stuff is just so pathetic to say the least. Charles Russell, Joe Rutherford, Nate Norris, and their minions were fairly cleaver with an audience that was kept in the dark for so long. If Mark Sanderson, Tight Pants, Splane, and animatron Lett are any indication of those running this organization, then we have no reason to worry that this organization in a tail-spin downward, readying to crash. These ‘personal stories’ between Sanderson’s pleadings are a real production too, looking more like an infomercial. Again, pathetic. The only people that would lap that stuff up are people willing to shut down their brains and say, ‘hey, my head hurts, do all the thinking for me.’ Unfortunately, these guys are not only pathetic, but dangerous too.

    Would you want to go back to have these circus clowns run your life? Not me!

  • November 6, 2015 at 8:11 am
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    For all of you.
    Dismiss your concerns the Bible say: 1peter 5:7 ”while you throw all your anxiety on him, because he cares for you.”
    John 6:44 “No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him, and I will resurrect him on the last day”
    (Ezekiel 34:16) “The lost one I will search for, the stray I will bring back, the injured I will bandage, and the weak I will strengthen; but the fat one and the strong one I will annihilate. I will feed that one with judgment.”
    (Psalm 119:176) I have strayed like a lost sheep. Search for your servant, For I have not forgotten your commandments.
    (Luke 21:34-36) “But pay attention to yourselves that your hearts never become weighed down with overeating and heavy drinking and anxieties of life, and suddenly that day be instantly upon you 35 as a snare. For it will come upon all those dwelling on the face of the whole earth. 36 Keep awake, then, all the time making supplication that you may succeed in escaping all these things that must occur and in standing before the Son of man.”

    meditate on these Bible verses.

    listen to the November program of JW.Broadcasting tv.jw.org and tries to hear the voice of Jehovah your God

    • November 6, 2015 at 8:23 am
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      @Baby, sorry to tell you but since I “left” Jehovah, my depression has gone. If I wanted to worship Jehovah, I don’t need an organization to do it. We all know those scriptures, so why are you telling us them like we never heard them before?

      • November 6, 2015 at 8:26 am
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        and Baby, to add to my last comment, when I watched and listened to the November broadcast, I didn’t “hear” Jehovah. I “heard” Mark Sanderson. Are you suggesting that Jehovah was speaking through Sanderson or just what were you suggesting?

        If you believe that God is speaking through the Watchtower Organization, do you have any proof of that? If so, please let us know and I will gladly return to “Him”, through the Organization.

    • November 6, 2015 at 9:02 am
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      I have and lately he’s constantly patting me on the back. Our relationship has grown exponentially since awakening to the truth. He has truly embraced me mentally and emotionally since I stopped using men to replace his son as mediator in our relationship. I am filling up notebooks faster than I could ever imagine before with clear vision as to whom, what, where he was writing a specific book of the Bible.

      Since awakening I have not become lazy in my study of scripture, an apostate in the biblical sense or become rebellious against my creator. I started this new freedom with a tired heart, weary mind and burdened conscious, which God through his word has replenished. Nourishing my faith in him after 30 years of spiritual food substitute.

      If you came to this site it is because you also have a heart that knows it needs more and I hope you are brave enough to find the solace and home you need in a personal faith and philosophy that sings to you. One that is between you and God.

      Many of us have been working to rebuild our spiritual life and this site with the light it shines on the coven of vampires in Brooklyn, has allowed us to gain traction in these efforts. It has allowed many of us to replace the hot tears of injustice that would stream down our face with tears of joy and hope and a conviction to help others like you come to know the truth about this cult.
      This is where we the healing live out Hebrews 10:24,25

    • November 6, 2015 at 10:32 am
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      @Baby
      The only thing I heard in that jw broadcast was Sanderson’s blather and cult-speak. Not to mention a bunch of syrupy infomercials. I thought I would need insulin after watching those productions. Each subject of the infomercials might as well say, “I so happy that I returned to Jehovah (i.e. the WTS), because reality was much more than I could ever handle.” I agree with @Caroline, show me where Sanderson actually spoke for God and I will gladly return to the fold. For now Sanderson is full of ###t.

      • November 6, 2015 at 10:44 am
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        I forgot to add. Yes. I did meditate on those scriptures you presented. My thoughts were that all of these put together have a common theme, “come back else YOU’RE DOOMED!” Have I got that about right? Eh?

        If history serves me right, the sun will rise and the sun will set and the wheels on the bus will keep going round and round. It’s time for you to meditate on those verses that were given to you to repeat here. Then, ask yourself, why would these be picked out so uniquely and put together. Get my drift?

      • November 6, 2015 at 11:01 am
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        @Baby.
        My apologies for ranting at you. I should have done this with a bit more tact and concern for you as a person. It just fuels my fire when someone starts quoting scripture. I had enough of that when I was studying and then questioning the WTS philosophy. When I actually had a real question about the doctrine of the WTS, I would only to get a bunch more scriptures thrown at me instead of true insight and proof. There really wasn’t any proof returned.

        • November 6, 2015 at 11:50 am
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          Sadly the GB can’t get that through their heads. They have a one size fits all approach to scripture, they take a lot of things literaly, when they were obviously worded and prepared for the people living in that time. Take the opening book of the Bible for example, it sounds like J.K Rowling came up with it. You have to take into account that it is a book written to some recently freed, illiterate, superstitious and completely saturated with Egyptian theology Israelites. Things had to be broken down in wording and illustrations that they would understand. Who better to do this than someone who grew up in those same beliefs. A place where idolatry, which God forbids, was rampant and sorcery or the attempt at it was common practice, to name just a few.

          I can no longer stomach anything the GB prints either. I can no longer stomach how easily everyone at the hall laps it up, demonstrating with no doubt in my mind, how unfamiliar with scripture they are. When I read Genesis I focus on Moses opening line to a people who have been duped for so long. “In the beginning GOD created the heavens and the Earth.” That was then and is now, the most important thing they and us have to understand.

          The bible is not an IKEA furniture manual with a step 1, step 2, step 3… Approach to explaining the details. All we get is a general idea and nothing more. Same goes with most of scripture. I’ve seen too much in life to be flabbergasted by anything deemed wrong by Bible readers within scripture. These people need to get out and travel more. I just moved to a new city and on our first day here we watch a news report about a cute 9 year old little boy lured into an alley and executed with 8 bullets in his body, all because a relative of his belongs to a rival gang. Lot did this, Noah did that is literaly thousands of years if not more in history’s rear view mirror and such a poor, sad excuse to give up on God altogether.

          “God remember that thing you did about the thing, four thousand years ago, which I’ve only read a few verses worth of the details, well, that’s messed up.”

          Some people want to see miracles in order to have faith. They want to snap their fingers and have God dance a jig for them. Jesus said these would get nothing more than the sign of Jonah, meaning they will see scripture fulfilled regardless of their doubts.

    • November 6, 2015 at 11:23 am
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      Baby,

      Thank you for your genuine concern for us all.

      I have no intention of returning to the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

      The scriptures you quote have no resonance with me.

      Peace be with you, Excelsior!

    • November 6, 2015 at 2:44 pm
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      @BABY, i DID LISTEN TO IT AND THE ONE THING i KEPT HEARING WAS RETURN TO THE “organization” AND JEHOVAH AND HIS ORGANIZATION. THEY KEPT PUTTING THE WORD ORGANIZATION IN THERE WITH GOD LIKE IT IS ONE And the same. Organization, organization, Organization, if they repeat it enough
      they want you to believe it. They are good at propaganda.

      • November 6, 2015 at 6:33 pm
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        Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you…….

  • November 6, 2015 at 8:50 am
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    I absolutely hate it when a witness tells me to return to Jehovah – I have never left Jehovah.

    What i have left is a self serving, rule oriented, pharasaical, money hungry corporation, that destroys families, turns people into clones, and that tells people “witness religion first – everything including family – second.

    I feel much closer to God now than I did when I was a witness. So please do not tell me that I have left Jehovah. In my opinion the witness religion has left Jehovah and now they worship money and prominence.

    • November 6, 2015 at 9:04 am
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      Amen, Rob

      • November 6, 2015 at 9:37 am
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        Amen Rob and Robert. I can honestly and truthfully say that when i divorced jehovahs witnesses in my head , my heart became free. NOt for everyone but i love my God and he listens and makes me happy. It,s a joy to read every day his words to me NO interpretation from some old men no rules no evil consequences It,s all a bit unconditional really. If this is what being an apostate is then bring it on Jesus. I,m home not left or abandoned and I know there are some broken souls out there and we want to help you see and feel loved even if its just a few kind comments on this site. All of us have each other and it does not matter what we believe but for me I have found God and I am not going anywhere. ruthlee

    • November 6, 2015 at 9:41 am
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      I cannot agree more.
      The assumption is that in stepping back/ separating / leaving or whatever we want to call it – is that we have ‘left Jehovah’.
      It is also assumed that it has been done easily with a cavalier attitude and not caring.
      That it is because of weakness and a love of ‘the world’.
      That you are miserable and unhappy and lonely with no real friends.
      Actually this is one of the hardest things I have ever had to do.
      And I have had to do it.
      It’s very difficult to leave- that’s why so many who leave messages are still making a pretense at being in.
      I pretended for years.

      Now I have had to have a reply up my sleeve for anyone who sakes why I don’t go to meetings etc

      It’s very hard not to be drawn and it is best not to be because it rarely gets anywhere.

      As a group ‘we’ (I still say that) culturally feel we have the right to ask very personal questions as to faith or belief. We are trained to do so – to ask complete strangers how they feel- do they pray? Etc

      It’s very hard to be on the receiving end of that sort of questioning because we don’t tend to ask each other anything because it’s is assumed that we all believe it.

      So when you suddenly find yourself in the position if your friends and family asking you why it is good to have a well rehearsed answer that politely shuts them up.

      I tend to say ‘this is a very personal matter that I don’t want to discuss’

      But I havnt yet had a visit from the elders so that might be different.

      Actually they have been very considerate in allowing me to drift without the slightest interest.

      I stopped going to meetings months ago- actually over two years since I went on a Sunday and 6 months since mid week – 5 years since reporting and no one has said a word to me, and that’s after being baptised for over 40 years!

      Quite amazingly attentive as shepherds.

      Actually at some point during that time I think I could have been pulled back in…….the November broadcast was quite a pull- it will work on some.

      Rambling on a bit – sorry.

      • November 6, 2015 at 10:16 am
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        I don’t much think you’re rambling. In my opinion, you’re thinking. That is something that is forbidden of a witness. Look at the post from @baby, no compelling arguments, no proof, no insight past these bible verses. You, on the other hand, offer thought provoking reasoning and questioning. Something that is far beyond the allowable norm of witnesses.

        All of us that have come out of the cult indoctrination, have come out because they did think and question. An exercise that has given so many freedom from this dangerous, destructive cult.

  • November 6, 2015 at 10:22 am
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    The unjust concept of inherited sin and all its consequences,
    purposely inflicted upon us. Then followed by the mandatory
    acceptance of a human sacrifice in order to be purged, is
    precisely what gives the Borg, the Catholic Church and all the
    rest, their power to control people.

    When I see some one who’s life is blighted by some awful
    deformity or disease, supposedly as a direct result of the
    curse. I just cannot buy into the idea of an all wise, all loving
    God. ( Is that the best an omniscient mind can come up with? )

    It would be totally wrong of me to deny others their right to
    believe these things, and I do not do so. I just submit these
    comments as a counter balance to the evangelical references
    that are appearing here. Which imo keep people trapped
    in these domineering religious systems.

    • November 6, 2015 at 10:50 am
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      OK, Ted, we’ll let God be wrong so that you, who have figured it all out be right.

      • November 6, 2015 at 11:59 am
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        Robert67,

        I presume that you have absolute proof that your God exists?

        No?

        Then stop using passive aggressive attacks against us atheists, please. It is utterly unchristian and detracts from your otherwise interesting comments.

        Are you going to explain scripturally why it is “loving” to allow innocent people to age, get sick and die? No! Instead, you offer a comment dripping with sarcasm, in an attempt to belittle Ted.

        I expect far, far better from a Christian, Robert, I really do. Where does it say in the bible that a Christian should be sarcastic and dismissive of others?

        You have chosen to believe in Christianity. I have no problem with you deciding for yourself what you choose to believe.

        Please allow Ted and I, and every other atheist, to have the same right to decide.

        We should be able to work together to help people who have been seriously harmed by a cult. We should be able to agree to disagree. I hope that we will be able to disagree without being disagreeable.

        Peace be with you, Excelsior!

        • November 6, 2015 at 12:49 pm
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          Sorry if it comes off offensive. It is not meant that way, it would be unchristian of me not to defend Gods word. I would appreciate it if bigoted comments directed specifically at the God of the Bible, out of the millions to choose from, would stop. As you can see many of us still have absolute faith in the God of the Bible.

          I’ve buried my Grandparents, My father who died at just 51, my baby brother who was hit by a truck at 17, I know death. As an Atheist I would think that you would be most at peace with it, as Neal Degrassi points out, it is one of the benefits of not believing in God. There is no hook up on checking out as he says. Therefore, why obsess or try to milk a mia culpa from scripture as if every last one of us, our parents and children won’t face it at any given moment.

          Again, I apologize if my response comes off harsh. It isn’t meant to insult, but to deflect an unnecessary slur on the God of many of this sites posters. The alternative is we continue to post God is an a$&& comments and members like myself keep speaking up, because, make no mistake, speak up we will.

          • November 7, 2015 at 7:06 am
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            Robert67,

            Thank you for your apology. It is accepted.

            I thought that we could all benefit from looking at St. Peter’s words in 1 Peter3:15

            “Quietly trust yourself to Christ your Lord and if anybody asks why you believe as you do, be ready to tell him, and do it in a gentle and respectful way” Living Bible Edition

            It would do us all good to remember to be gentle and respectful, regardless of our personal beliefs.

            Also, the words of Jesus himself have relevance here

            “Don’t criticise, and then you won’t be criticised. For others will treat you as you treat them.”

            Matthew 7:1,2 Living Bible Edition

            I do not believe in any god or gods whatsoever. All gods are equally unlikely to me. The fact that your God is a subject of discussion is because the cult I was once part of hijacked the bible and Christianity to further its own agenda. I bear no particular malice to your God, Robert.

            I have never made a bigoted comment about your God, Robert, and neither has anyone else.

            Your God is quite capable of defending himself. He does not require you to defend him, as he has appointed his Son over heaven and earth. It is Jesus Christ, in your belief system, who defends the name and honour of God, not you or any other Christian.

            I hope that this will see the end of passive aggressive, sarcastic comments directed at atheists.

            Peace be with you, Excelsior!

          • November 7, 2015 at 3:18 pm
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            @Robert67

            I believe that the only way that one can find their own truth, is by listening to all sides of the story, all angles, all perspectives, all viewpoints. It is for refusing to do this why I ended up in the JW religion only to discover that it nothing but BS. I have vowed that this will never happen to me again and that I must always listen to all viewpoints, all perspectives, all angles, all sides of the story and find my own truth. This is why I believe that both theist-exJWs and non-theist ex-JWs must be allowed to express their issues with the WT’s teachings on this site. It is up to the individuals who visit this site to do their own research, come to their own conclusions and find their own truth.

          • November 7, 2015 at 6:28 pm
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            Robert 67,

            How does one become a member of this site?

            You refer to yourself as a member. The banner to the right of the screen refers to all of the comments as being readers comments. We are also referred to as guests.

            Do you have any official capacity on this site? I must confess to being confused.

            If you are a member on this fine site, then, in the interests of balance, it would be fitting for an atheist to be a member too, would it not?

            Could you please clarify your involvement with this site? How does one become a member?

            Peace be with you, Excelsior!

        • November 6, 2015 at 6:10 pm
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          Robert, I used to think it would be interesting to debate you on the subject of God’s existence and the validity of the Bible. However, I’ve since realized that 98% of my time would have to be devoted to the drudgery of pointing out the flaws in the METHOD you use to defend your position. It’s just endless misdirection by way of weak attempts to ascribe nefarious motives to those who disagree with you, and constant attempts by you to mislabel the simple, honest assertions of our opinions as “slurs”, “bigoted” and “ridicule” (among other things). As I’ve said before, I hope that even the believers on this site notice your unfair tactics, and are disturbed by them.

          None of us are looking for a mea culpa in the Bible. We are simply needing evidence that supports the assertion that the God of the Bible is a God of Love. You’ve previously openly stated an unwillingness to consider the brutality perpetrated by God in the OT. But, even venturing into the NT, one finds that God’s solution for mankind’s woes is to have His son brutally murdered so that WE can be forgiven for the fact that some distant relative of ours ate fruit from the wrong tree. We have to disconnect ourselves from our own merciful hearts and rational minds to believe that that is the ultimate act of LOVE. That is, by the way, exactly the same kind of disconnect we had to employ to enable us to believe the Org had the truth.

          And then when you position yourself as Defender of the Faith by assuring Excelsior “speak up we will” as it pertains to standing up against those making “God is an a$&& comments”, you’re failing to see that it was largely your own blatant disregard for the posting guidelines of this site that prompted Ted to write his respectful comment in the interest of adding a little balance to the overall conversation here. Then, Excelsior defended Ted against your snarky, disrespectful reply. So again, to portray yourself as the one who was thrown into a defensive position here is a bit of a stretch.

          I’m not sure how you get away with persistently posting comments that are “evangelical in nature”. Many of the other believers here seem to be able to write comments rooted in faith that are respectful and frequently even uplifting to all of us here. Although I think they all look up to you, I believe it is really you who could learn from them.

        • November 6, 2015 at 8:46 pm
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          Robert, in my comment above, in the interest of accuracy and clarity, replace the words “…you’re failing to see that it was largely your own blatant disregard for the posting guidelines of this site that prompted Ted to write his respectful comment…” with the words: “…you’re failing to see that your own blatant disregard for the posting guidelines of this site contributed substantially to the comment stream that prompted Ted to write his respectful comment…”

          The original wording poorly conveyed my intended point. Accuracy and clarity are very important to me.

      • November 6, 2015 at 9:56 pm
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        Robert, if a person doesn’t believe in the God of the Bible or the Bible itself, there is no way that they could be saying bad things about the God of the Bible.

        We who don’t believe in the God of the Bible, don’t blame Him for anything at all but if you want to believe in the God of the Bible, we have no problem with that but Ted is absolutely right in that the concept of inherited sin from Adam and Eve has been a tool of religions for thousands of years to control people through religion and redemption through the blood of Jesus Christ.

        So, rather than just believe that we are all born in “sin” like the Bible says, we should be shown some kind of proof that the Bible is perfect and from a perfect God. If there are mistakes and contradictions in the Bible, than the Bible has no control over us. We should be shown some kind of proof that the Bible really is “inspired” of God. Just itself saying it is “inspired”, doesn’t make it inspired of God and no reason to believe in it.

        We have a hard time believing in God. If you can supply some kind of evidence, we could believe in Him.

        Please don’t say that we are saying bad things about somebody that we don’t even believe in. It’s like we are saying bad things about the tooth fairy when we or you don’t even believe in such a person. How could you be offended? I personally don’t believe in the Bible but when people bring up the Bible and how much they love God etc. I will bring up all those scriptures in the Bible that tells me that if He really does exist, He has to be the worst kind of criminal mind that ever existed. Anybody who did all the things that the God of the Bible told the Israelites to do, would be thrown in jail in any country in the world today, even in the worst countries.

        I used to believe in God too and dismissed all the bad parts of the Bible. I believed that he answered prayers but now I see that if he exists, He lets innocent people die and saves bad people, whether or not they pray.

        I would personally prefer to believe that He doesn’t even exist than to think that He doesn’t care about innocent people.

        If there really is a God that exists, then he should answer prayers and those prayers would have to be supernatural. In other words, things would have to happen that could not happen by any other means, except by supernatural means.

        When Ted or anybody makes a comment that makes them question the existence of God, it should not have to be defended by you or anybody. If God exists, He doesn’t need to be defended by you or anybody. He should be able to defend Himself.

        All my adult life, it was drilled into me about all that God has done for me and how I owe my life to Him for all He has done for me etc. etc. But religions use that concept of inherited sin to control us by making us feel guilty about even being born or taking a breath or eating a meal and that just by being born from Adam and Eve we “deserve” death.

        I hear that all the time from my husband and I have to ask myself, “what did I do to deserve death?” just by being born? Nothing. I didn’t kill anybody so I don’t deserve death.

    • November 6, 2015 at 11:27 am
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      Well said, Ted!

      It makes no sense for a “loving” god to punish unborn children for the sins of Adam and Eve.

      No sense at all.

      Did any of us eat this forbidden fruit? Did any of us have any say in that decision? And yet we grow old, get sick and die! Utterly ridiculous!

      • November 6, 2015 at 12:51 pm
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        Ted you and i may see things differently but i do like your counter balance because us religious ones don’t always take the nastier side of religion as valid. It is a bit easy to gloss over and just accept the lovey dovey stuff. So thanks for you last post it made me think and conclude this is not as simple as it seems. note to Excelsior thanks for your point on my g jackson ramble I think you are right i misconstrued his ideas by his words. Nevertheless Mr J still speaks rubbish! ruthlee

  • November 6, 2015 at 10:38 am
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    This is what I came up with John:

    Hi Sis,
    Hope you’re feeling better. I have the flu myself.Sorry it took me a little while to get back to you. I do love & miss you very much. I miss how close we were. My arms are always open to you. I have been doing a lot of research lately.
    Being baptized at 15 yrs.old is really too young to make a lifetime commitment . Even getting married at 15 or younger is too young to make such a decision but dedicating your entire life to a religion that you live by daily , which is the most important , is an extremely big decision .
    So now as an adult I’ve been doing a lot of research . Mom gave me the new Bible & the latest magazines. Using the new JW Bible, I
    appreciate these scriptures:
    1Thes.5:21-“Make sure of all things, hold fast to what is fine.”
    1Peter3:15-“but sanctify the Christ as Lord in your heart always READY TO MAKE A DEFENCE before every one who demands of you a reason for the hope you have but doing so with a mild temper & deep respect .”
    Col.4:6-“Let your reasonableness become known to all men. The Lord is near.”
    Prob.14:15-“The naive person believes every word but the shrewd one ponders each step.”
    These scriptures are encouraging to me . I know you’re familiar with them because you were always good about deeply studying.
    I enjoyed the JW broadcasting for Nov.
    You were right it did make me cry & I do miss us studying together too.Seems like we can discuss some of the things we are learning together now.
    I don’t want you to think I’m being negative but I do have a few questions.
    In the video released on JW .org. March 2,2014
    On the Philippines typhoon Haiyen the brothers were in the direct path of the typhoon when it struck Nov. 8,2013 & they knew it would cause tremendous damage.The branch office showed a map in the video of the path & told the brothers to evacuate . I just can’t help but wonder what were those brothers doing having a meeting the night it hit instead of evacuating.
    43 people lost their lives in that Kingdom Hall .
    In the Nov. Broadcast ( the typhoon of the Philippines ) was great that the brothers came in with big trucks full of literature , supplies & some tents.
    When I saw Broatcasting #10
    They brought out that Jehovah’s Organization would not approve of child sex abuse .
    I couldn’t help but think of Darlene.
    In the Watchtower Mar. 3rd, 66 it said “Should falsehood & corruption be exposed? Therefore it is right & proper to speak out strongly against falsehood & corruption. A person in imitation of Jesus & has the courage to do so deserve attention & respect.”
    It was so sad for Darlene she had the courage to go the Gov.Body & report her brother-in-law & brother for raping her . All they got was being removed as Elders. They treat her horribly still to this day & they are all J.W.’s.
    That was one of the articles I shared with her on my C.D. Rhome, that I still have by the way.
    She really appreciated that because I was one of a few people who supported her.
    Also the Awake 4/8/99-(talking about the Catholic Church) said”Imagine the heart break of parents who discover when it’s too late that their children have been abused by trusted Clergymen or even a family member. Does my Church tolerate or cover up child abuse?”
    I could relate to this . A family member in the J.W. religion. Our own my sister.
    I’m not saying that all Congregations of JW. have child molesters, but I know of 4 personally .
    I unbelievably , saw on Dateline that there’s
    thousands of child sex abuse cases against Jehovah’s Witnesses in the courts. They’re having to pay millions of dollars of cases they have lost.
    Then I attached 5 newspaper articles showing the amounts of $’s to each victim.

    Her response …..”you can’t believe every thing the media put out there….. She said all the things they’re taught to say. I wasn’t to surprised but she reached out to me first so I wanted to try & reach her the best way I could hoping something might spark her attention. Wow ! Amazing how indoctrinated she is.
    Anna Adam

    • November 6, 2015 at 11:00 am
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      Anna, its only a question of time now before most witnesses are free to worship without the GB’s puppet strings. You’ve made your sister aware of just a few wicked things happening within the cult. As this and other websites work to expose the truth about the Watchtower, your sister will eventually stumble into more information that backs what you’ve already stated. Keep asking God for help in freeing your family and keep up with your own study of scripture which will prepare you incase she suddenly wants to listen and be persuaded by Gods word itself. God Bless

    • November 6, 2015 at 12:11 pm
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      Anna,

      Thank you for sharing your correspondence with your sister.

      Your comments about personally knowing of four paedophiles moved me deeply. What a terrible situation those poor people are in. I hope that they will seek professional help and receive justice from the superior authorities.

      Comments such as yours remind me of why I am here on this site. It is to help bring an end to the suffering of women and children in this disgusting cult. I hope that I shall have a small part in ending the disgusting abuse suffered by so many.

      I wish you all the best in your conversations with your sister in the future.

      Peace be with you, Excelsior!

  • November 6, 2015 at 1:21 pm
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    Anybody else pick up in the broadcast how Sanderson and the other “directors” were dressed when they visited the Philippines to “help out” with the relief efforts? I certainly wouldn’t turn up in a shirt and tie if going to help disaster stricken people. They just seemed to be concerned with filming everything and making people “happy” to have a GB member look in on them.
    I’ll take the opportunity to express my concern of paragraph 10 in this weeks WT study when talking about a personal decision someone makes that we don’t agree with: “we should not quickly judge him or feel that we ought to pressure him to change his mind.” In Spanish it says “we shouldn’t judge” full stop (kudos to the translators there as the English version still makes out its ok to judge, just not straight away). How can the WTS say this when most body of elders and ALL BETHELS prohibit the wearing of beards, the most personal decision there is?!
    Paragraph 12 asks the question “Does my conscience move me to shun sports that are aggressive, competitive, nationalistic, or violent?” So just going by the “competitive” aspect, that rules out most sports then? I can no longer watch footy because I want my team to win??? I have a word for that: Jokers!
    Then paragraph 13 seems to be implying that going to the gym is wrong or any other sport that doesn’t involve other JWs.
    @Robert67 cada día me gusta más tu razonamiento y me pareces un tío muy legal y comprensivo. La verdad es que muchos SI se han vuelto “perezosos” en sus hábitos de estudio porque la WTS favorece la búsqueda de sus publicaciones en vez de la propia Biblia.

    • November 7, 2015 at 3:44 pm
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      Gracias, Average Joe. Solo intentando encontrar un equilibrio en el debate sin compromisos en el respeto de las diferentes fe’s presente. En veces salen aves figurativas en la forma de participantes del foro, que solo commentan en el momento oportuno para terminar de derribar la poca fe en Dios que le queda a algunos despues de sobrevivir a este culto. Quieren llevarse a otros a su nueva fe atea.

  • November 6, 2015 at 1:31 pm
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    Watchtower is what it is. All hat. No cattle.

  • November 6, 2015 at 2:37 pm
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    My answer if asked to return to Jehovah.
    (I never left.) I still believe in Almighty God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Bible.
    Maybe (YOU) should return. Return to worshiping Almighty God through Jesus Christ instead of a little group of men who have risen up from among you yourselves….drawing men away after themselves. According to them (The Governing Body) Jesus only mediates with them, not the average Witness. Since Jesus is not your mediator then who is? According to the Governing Body, (they are) through an organization. That certainly is twisted things they are saying. The Bible says Jesus is the only mediator between God and men and he gave himself a (ransom for ALL). (1st Timothy 2:5)
    Jesus is the only mediator between God and all mankind, not also through some elite group who have inserted themselves in the salvation process.
    WAKE UP AND COME TO GOD THROUGH JESUS ALONE.

  • November 6, 2015 at 3:24 pm
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    @ Excelsior, Thanks for your support,

    @ Ruthlee, Your conciliatory comment is
    greatly appreciated. Like Excelsior you are
    a peacemaker.

  • November 7, 2015 at 8:25 am
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    Hi Robert,

    Just read your post to Homer…well said! I found it personally encouraging and helpful. As a side point, why do so many (as does Homer) feel compelled to write letters of disassociation? Those are man-made rules and we are under no scriptural obligation to abide by them. We are certainly not obligated to bring harm to ourselves or our families by such action. Besides why make things that easy for the bros.? Regards

    • November 7, 2015 at 12:14 pm
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      I never thought of that…. What is the understanding on letters of disassociation? When I first began to study, the Witnesses wanted me to write a letter to the church – I never did. I felt it was no ones business bar my own which church I went to.

    • November 8, 2015 at 11:18 am
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      Eyes opened, I agree why write a letter and cause added stress for yourself. Writing a letter to disassociate yourself is a man made rule by a group of 7 Clowns. Disfellowshipping, shunning, and etc. is not from Jehovah God. The Watchtower Pharisees leaders will truly answer to God for all the abuse and unnecessary hurt they have caused on so many people. Their time left is truly reduced!

  • November 7, 2015 at 3:53 pm
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    @ Dee. Your reasoning is impeccable.

  • November 7, 2015 at 5:48 pm
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    67 Roberto. Estimado Roberto. No tengo ningún deseo de convertir
    usted o alguien de ateísmo. Verdad es importante para mí
    como lo es usted. Una vez creí tan fuertemente como lo hace
    en un ser divino, me mantenga una mente abierta y estoy dispuesto a cambiar cuando evidencia me resulta mal.
    Yo no soy tu enemigo, y no soy oposición le
    Sólo estoy hablando mi mente. Si no hay ninguna verdad en lo que
    Digo gente que ignora mis comentarios. y no será
    influenciada, pueden tu Dios vaya con usted.

  • November 8, 2015 at 6:10 pm
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    @Homer

    I see you have received lots of encouragement and suggestions about your situation. You certainly have the right attitude as that is the key thing that will help you deal successfully with the situation. I am glad that you have realized that the elders’ treatment of you is nothing but a game because that’s what it really is and you seem to be playing along quite well.

    Don’t mind those elders. They consider their reality to be the ONLY reality. The GB has won their loyalty by flattering them with niceties:
    – the spirit-anointed overseers or bodies of elders are the angels referred to in the seven letters of Revelation 2 – 3 (Revelation Its Grand Climax At Hand pg. 28 – 29);
    – elders will be ‘princes’ in all the earth’ in the new system of things (Psalm 45:16).

    Their stripping you of your privileges was just a way to coerce you to recant as they really thought that you wanted those privileges badly. They are shocked because they thought that losing your privileges would be such a blow to your ego and such an embarrassment, that you would abandon any doubts which you may have about the organization.

    I know the disgust and anger you feel after realizing that you have been fed lies and would therefore want the congregation to hear directly from you the reasons why you are disassociating as the elders certainly aren’t going to disclose these reasons to the congregation. But as you have wisely realized, you would risk being cut-off from your family (you may find the following suggestions on how to exit the cult gracefully without being announced as disassociated, to be of interest if you have not already viewed this info before: https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/wiki/index#wiki_exit_guide ; scroll down to see the Exit Guide).

    What a shame that you will have to subject yourself to torture just so that you won’t be cut-off from your family for leaving the cult. Leaving a religion should never mean losing your family. You should never be punished for exercising your fundamental right to freedom of religion and freedom of conscience. Apparently, however, only JWs are entitled to these freedoms and not persons wanting to leave the religion – JWs are quick to cry foul whenever they are not allowed to exercise their right to religious freedom.

    I am sure that you have been discovering that there is quite a bit of information available to help persons free their minds of the JW cult. I have found the book: APOCALYPSE DELAYED: THE STORY of JEHOVAH’s WITNESSES 3rd edition, to be of interest.
    One can clearly see from reading this book that what JWs call “the truth” is nothing more than a permutation and combination of doctrines that existed prior to and during the time that their founder Charles Taze Russell was alive (I suppose God’s Holy Spirit told Charles Taze Russell which permutation and combination of doctrines to choose. LOL!).

    Do hope that your fiancé and other family members will come around with time.

    “Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.” Aristotle.

  • November 8, 2015 at 9:34 pm
    Permalink

    I have been away for a while & have just caught up, Hi Homer, i went through similar things, the only difference is i am a bit deeper in than you were, older, older kids, i to hide in the org so as not to loose many family, Friends, we had a situation here where quite a few wrote letters to the branch complaining as to what was happening, then we had the DO,CO visit & ask questions of the servants, all servants expressed the same opinion, nothing happened, except once the generals had left then the real witch hunts began, i thought i had a target on my back, no no i was told, well it didnt stop for me & others, so i stood down, lucky for me i had a family situation that turned into a good excuse, now i miss meetings, havnt knocked on a door in over a year, still report to keep up the charade, they just think i am weak, but still trapped for friends & family. I now refuse to shake the elders hands when at the meeting, due to my beard, some of them don’t even talk to me,

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