Last night I was contacted by one of my Facebook friends who was facing a dilemma.
They had themselves been approached by a believing relative regarding the November JW Broadcasting episode, hosted by Mark Sanderson.
This new episode revisits the “Return to Jehovah” theme from the brochure release at the last convention, and beckons inactive ones to come “home” through a dramatic series of experiences and re-enactments – deliberately playing on the emotions rather than answering any intellectual concerns or factual objections.
Empowered by this overt propaganda, it seems some Witnesses are wasting no time in contacting their estranged family members to relay the Governing Body’s message, and this person asked me how they should reply.
I would never issue a script for this sort of situation, because I actually think it is far more compelling when individuals express themselves authentically on such important subjects. That said, here is how I would respond if I were asked to watch the latest broadcast and/or asked to come “home” to “Jehovah’s organization”…
I am touched that you have thought of me, but you should know I am already familiar with the latest JW Broadcasting episode and its message. My particular problem, shared by many who were raised as Witnesses, which this video does not address, is that I don’t believe the claims made by the Governing Body to be true. I cannot come “home” to any organization that teaches untrue things – especially to children. If you are convinced it is “the truth,” then please show me the evidence and I will request a bible study and start attending meetings. If you cannot show me evidence, or you tell me it’s all down to having enough “faith,” then you have to accept that your religious beliefs are no more substantiated than those taught by any other religion. I want to take this opportunity to let you know that I love you and think about you often and the happy times we shared together, and I hope that eventually your own hunger for truth will lead you to do objective research rather than simply accept everything you are told in one organization’s books, magazines and videos.
Obviously, due to the threat of shunning, most inactive Witnesses who are approached by family members will be prevented from being quite so honest. Any kind of statement such as the above that refutes the religious claims of the Governing Body would be responded to with severe punishment through shunning.
But if you are able to be honest with your relatives, perhaps because they already know how strongly you feel, or because you are, like me, disassociated (or disfellowshipped), I hope you will find the above response useful.
Harmful policies such as child abuse, shunning and blood transfusions aside, the reason we don’t go back is because it simply isn’t true. If we stick to that argument and refuse to be swayed or sidetracked by appeals to emotion, there’s a sliver of a chance that a friend or relative who is intellectually honest enough might start asking the hard questions themselves.
The emotional beckoning of the inactive was not the only disturbing feature of the November broadcast. I will be addressing other issues, such as the segment on the Typhoon Haiyan video, in my next JW Broadcasting rebuttal which should be available at some point over the next three weeks. Please subscribe to my YouTube channel to be notified about this and other new videos.
Would be great if my JW son approached me to try to get me to come back, but I know he wouldnt as he is aware that if he says anything to me about it, I will just say the same things as Lloyd would say, and he is afraid of the truth. He likes his JW life and seems ok with living a lie.
@ Anthony
Did I miss something? You go and berate Alanv. You rudely speak out in public about him and impute motives you have no basis for. Clearly your a JW with a I am better than you complex. The invocation of talking to the police about the matter??? Wow why don’t you try that one yourself, I bet you will look pretty dandy in a straight jacket.
Do yourself a favor and don’t blog the next time you go off your medication. Besides don’t you have some windows or a toilet to clean. Shhhh, did you hear that, I think your mother is calling you to come up from the basement and study your Watchtower.
I certainly can appreciate your point of view of avoiding the confusion, by avoiding being a people follower. I encourage my family, that if you can’t reason to something then you need to do more investigation because something is missing.
Dogma only stagnates human progress and as you quoted life is not a reversal. I hope you will rethink your comments to Alanv, it is hard to have any family member be a JW and reject you and stay with their lies. I think that is what he is speaking about. It takes time to get over that when it is someone you love dearly. Because when you put as much love and time as you do with your children and they would choose anything, no matter what that would cause them not to be around you at all is very hard to take. I am fortunate my whole family and all of my close friends left shortly after I did and I have all of them in my life.
Your response to the witnesses is good and challenging their doctrine. I agree with many things you said. I have trouble understanding how you can feel offended when I challenged you and you felt hurt enough to respond. I challenged you in a very closed minded way making assertions that without evidence to help you see as you admit that you do not know Alanv. You response to him was personal. You quote Loyds comments and agree yet you are not having dialogue with him. You know as well as I do that is a way of garnering his favor when you chose to personally attack another commenter. If you believe what he says then just say it. Quoting him on his website is a cop out. Being a free thinker does not mean that you even have to express your opinion. In general that is called opinionated. The older I get the more I realize how hard it is not to be opinionated.
As for law enforcemt. Perhaps you are an officer and that is how you feel. That may explain why you approach everything as an authority. My next door neighbor for 8 years was the police chief and I am certain that is not the way he feels.
I do not feel the need to tell others what to do, rather to seek understanding and fairness. Your statemts to Alanv were not seeking to help him, you berated him. He did not deserve
It.
I see that you are disinclined to admit your fault in the matter. I will admit what I did was dogmatic and unfair. I hoped you would respond the way you did so you could see how it feels. No matter you have the right to your own opinion and I have the right to disagree.
Final thought. Most people like and associate with people that agree with their views. I try hard not to be that way, when someone challenged my view I try to think about
What they are saying and then why they may view things that way and where did I gets viewpoint. I find that by doing that life is far more interesting. Even though we disagree does not bring any animosity on my part.
Best wishes
Anthony, you are a lemming. You are told how to be. How to think. And who you can and cant associate with. Keep following :)
“I am one of the most true (free thinkers) you will ever come across in life, You just don’t know it. But if only you did”
Reminds me of what I told Kate Upton, I am one of the best looking people you will ever come across in life, you just don’t know it. But if only you did. Still waiting for her to give me a call when she figures it out. Lol
@ Anthony
Now that was a funny comment, loved it! I guess I am a rodent to. lol
@Alanv
I was responding to Anthony and I stopped my comment short because I really wanted to direct the rest of what I had to say to you.
First off, I am sorry that you have a strained or even broken family relationship due to Watchtower. I will tell you the piece of the puzzle that helped me get my 3 closest friends (servants and Elders as well as their families out) as well as my Father, Sister and lastly my Mother. I cannot guarantee it will work, but if you have not tried it, it could be worth a try.
There was a special done by Lisa Ling about North Korea. In the special there was an eye doctor who risked his life to go to North Korea to help people who needed surgery regain their sight. During their time there they visited families who had pictures of the former leader Kim Jung Il on their walls. They looked at those pictures with the reverence of a God. Almost all of the people the video to, quickly commented how ridiculous that was and could not help but wonder how could intelligent people fall victim to such a terrible regime?
By the end of the show the doctor had many of the patients come to what looks like a church with photos of, as they called him “Dear Leader” on the walls of the center. Simultaneously they were all asked to remove their bandages from the surgery and they could see. They were delighted! With the doctor standing there, they never even stopped to thank him, instead they fell down and cried and thanked the “Dear Leader” and began bowing to photos of Kim Jung, the man who in fact opposed the operations.
At the end I asked a couple of simple questions because the piece of journalism is so compelling. Once you see it you will not likely forget it. I asked, how do you think something like that could ever happen to a human being, that they would thank someone who did nothing for them, but who is willing to take the credit? Do you wonder if you live over there would you be able to see through this evil man who makes the country live in poverty as he lives like a king? Last questions and the most critical while the show is fresh on their mind. If I were over there and you knew I had been brainwashed what would you do? Would you leave me there? Would you help me get out? If so, how?
I let it sink in a little and then showed them the truth about the GB and WT. I started off simple sharing all of the bad mouth things WT and
Rutherford especially, said against the medical community. He put tens of thousands of people at risk because of his arrogance. (sound familiar) I then showed all of the lies and cover ups making sure to provide clear evidence for every thing. They all had trouble accepting it at first, however not one of them stayed, they all began to do their own research and left. I can tell you it wasn’t easy for any of us. However we are all without a doubt much happier now.
Best wishes to you and your family. I hope this may help in some way.
@Anthony, Geez, I hate to disagree with you but I don’t think you could be further from the truth to alanv.
My family won’t touch religion with me with a ten foot pole. Every time I try and say anything to them, they close up shop as quickly as possible. They can be around me as long as I don’t talk anything about religion. If Alanv’s family wants to talk religion, that is a good thing, I believe.
That is the only way, he will be able to help them escape the JW religion, is if he is able to talk to them about the religion.
If they don’t want to talk about it, they will end the conversation quickly if his family is anything like mine and most JW families.
He can start with something like 607 which is easily proved to be wrong. If the Society is lying about 607 that is huge and might be the one little crack that opens up the valley of deceit for them to discover.
@ Anthony
Well done. Nice comment.
A question to anyone who knows the answer. When you comment, does it sometimes show up out of order? It seems that I write comments every so often, I come back to the website and there are comments ahead of mine that I wished were there when I commented. I would have said something different or at least acknowledged someones good comments or intentions. If I am doing something wrong please let me know.
Anthony, I hope you don’t stop commenting here. I could not agree more with your comment!! Thank you so much for taking the time to do it.
This is a subtle way of making a “theocratic war” against… “Apostates”!! Imagine the following you can read in Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Publications…
*** w53 11/1 p. 655 Examining Islamic Teachings ***
ISLAM’S “JIHADS”
One of the more striking contradictions found in the Quran concerns itself with freedom of worship. On the one hand there are a number of expressions favoring religious liberty, such as, “Let there be no compulsion in religion.” And on the other hand, time and again expressions appear that indicate the direct opposite: “When the sacred months are passed, kill those that join other gods to God wherever ye find them; and seize them, besiege them, lie in wait for them with every kind of ambush: but if they shall convert, and observe prayer, and pay the obligatory alms, then let them go their way for God is gracious.” And again: “Fight for the cause of God against those who fight against you: Kill them wherever you find them. . . . Fight therefore until there be no more civil discord, and until the only worship be that of God,” or “until the temptation stops.”—Sura 2:186-190, 212, 213; 8:12; 9:5, 124, Rodwell.
Modern Muslims claim that the Quran teaches freedom of religion and advocates only defensive warfare, but can such expressions as “kill those that join other gods to God wherever you find them,” “but if they convert . . . let them go their way,” and “kill them . . . until the temptation stops” be construed as either defensive warfare or permitting freedom of religion? The very Arabic word jihad disproves such a contention, for it means, “A religious war against infidels or Mohammedan heretics.” (Webster) Many, many Muslims were slain by other Muslims because of religious differences. Certainly that does not spell out freedom of religion.
la WACHTOWER INC. tiene temor porque cada ves son mas los inactivos jaja ya no pueden contra la supuesta APOSTASIA se cae a pedazos su mascara de hierro y nadie los atacara jamas son nuestros seres queridos solo respetuosamente nos dan la oportunidad de hablar con nuestros familiares y quiza lograr despertarlos
doble riesgo para ellos pues el amor siempre es mas fuerte que cualquier mentira
tranquilidad claridad tolerancia firmeza compasion y por sobre todo amor para nuestros seres amados una gran oportunidad de calmarlos para que bajen de la pelicula de ciencia ficcion que les estan haciendo vivir
This is the same campaign the Catholic church had not too long ago. The “come home” theme is definitely meant to illicit an emotional response. I haven’t watched it but I’m sure that my feelings towards the briadcast will be the same.
I just wanted to punch Gerrit Losch in the nose. All i could hear from him is his hypocritical response to the courts that would not be accepted in ANY kingdom Hall were it used by your average publisher. These men have no credibility. The idea that God is using this organization is laughable.
Watchtower is still labeling people as “inactive” ones. This is just like the Pharisees in Jesus day labeling the common people. When is the organization going to start counting the zeros every month for the inactive ones. So, that the publishers get to see what the “real” truth is about. The survival of the fittest, or the “race for life”, is the reason why there is such a conflict. Telling the publishers when they go through life’s traumatic changes in their life and albeit God dishonoring practices as “that’s your problem, that’s not our problem” a statement by a prestigious elder just shows that Jesus Christ’s life has no effect on the religion. In addition, the elders playing rank over the publishers is not showing the qualities of Jesus but rather the spirit of Satan the Devil. These streaming videos and printed material is so impersonal and does not represent Jesus Christ way of handling matters.
Agreed! Would Jesus ‘lovingly’ shun people that he saw in need or danger?
Lloyd,
Nice assessment and analysis: short, sweet and to the point!
I did a thread on JWD about 7 or 8 years ago under the Comments You Will Not Hear at the WT Study so this is the same old same old.
What is so irritating is that in both the WT study articles and their videos is that it’s never the fault of the Organization when someone leaves. It’s always the individual who is to blame. Either they ‘let themselves be stumbled’ or they no longer wanted to go out in Serve-Us, or they’re too full of themselves, etc. etc. They NEVER ever will acknowledge that anyone has a legitimate reason for leaving, no matter what the facts show.
My family has more or less, left me alone on the subject. They know I think the religion’s a crock so they don’t ask me questions anymore, simply because they realize I know more about it than what they do. And that is always a huge threat to any cult.
“Serve-us”….hahahahhaa…I love stuff like that.
Pio-sneer
BORGinization
Eldress
Circus Overseer
…..
Come home? Come home to what? They are the ones that should come home.I have had enough of this sorry crap from a group of brain washed old bent over men claiming to rep God.I left this nonsense after 32 years of my life in a lie. Now they want me to come home? This is another brainwashing campaign by a group of dead men walking around.I say to them sell all the stock you have invested all over the world and sell all those kingdom halls and all the property you own and give the proceeds back to the flock where it came from. Give them all that money then apologize to the world for being such a lie and manuplitator .Beg them your forgiveness and go get a job like any other human being. Then I will say that indeed that the watchtower has came home.
Hear hear! Ive always thought this org needs breaking with kindness give ALL the money back to whom it is owing and then they wont owe a single thing except love.Hmmmmm can’t see that happening in a thousand years. ruthlee
perfecto pedido!!! adhiero completamente
Iv noticed over the months how…. well….. portly Mark Sanderson is getting…its laughable that he is a couple of years younger than me and Im expected to believe God is using this slightly overweight man..(ahem he had better be careful according to jw guidlines)to guide my life and make my life decisions for me…all the governing body look like they have forgotten how to do a days work…I was talking to an elders wife a few days ago and she said the broadcasts have really shaken her faith in the organisation… she finds the governing body totally unlovable…that may be why they are having more broadcasts done by the helpers in the future!…I think the broadcasts are the begining of a long slow death for the organisation…Im so happy my head is free!
This is obviously showing that they need something out of the people that have drifted or faded away. What is it? Their MONEY!
Yes, especially as anyone out of the organisation is more likely to be better off financially, in higher paid work and having taken some further education to better themselves. Also, the GB are wanting our energy I should think. Many inside the org are getting exhausted and dispirited, and there isn’t much in the way of new blood through field service here in the west. The need fresh victims, lol.
Could it be that the GB leaders have some statistics from the field as to how many are no longer associated, and thought how much revenue that would bring back to the coffers if they did “come home” and bring their wallets?
Just wondering…
Said the cunning Spider to the Fly, ” Dear friend what can I do,
To prove the warm affection I ‘ve always felt for you?
I have within my pantry, good store of all that’s nice;
I’m sure you’re very welcome — will you please to take a slice?”
“Oh no, no,” said the little Fly, “kind Sir, that cannot be,
I’ve heard what’s in your pantry, and I do not wish to see!”
One other point as to the broadcasts of late. If you can remember back in the 80s – 90s of the GB which included the likes of Jaracz, Klein, Schroeder, Booth, Gangas, Barry, Barr, Henschel, Sydlik et.al these men were basically in the background. We barely knew who the GB was and most rank and file would hardly recognize them.
Now why is it all of a sudden different? The GB of today are rock stars? Could it be that the new group are mostly former COs and DOs, “who like the front place in the synagogs” and the adoration of men. They were always in the front and center, and commanded everyones attention everywhere they went. They loved it that way, and had enjoyed the creature worship. This happens to many Pastors in mega-churches in the US.
Now behind their desks in New York, they miss that attention. Much as JR Brown (former DO, now PR Man) when he first went to bethel in 1978. He had become so popular and famous as a DO and speaker, it was thought the GB brought him to bethel to stop the creature worship. He seemed to have languished there for all of that time.
Well now the GB has an outlet to be seen, JW Broadcasting. This time though, not only by their circuits, but the whole world of JWs.
Interesting to see how this venue for creature worship will play out…someone pass the popcorn.
The elders wife said much the same to me…I was in shock that she said it…she felt like it was the same as any American evangelical sect…she was really disturbed…I didnt give much away because Iv learned to be careful…but I did say to her that if she feels this way she cant be the only one….I truly felt for her…she just kept saying it was a good job she loved Jehovah…That will go soon…Iv been there…you feel lost.
We stopped our study with the JW’s in the spring of 2010. This new projection of the GB members, into the magazines and now as televangelists, is a striking development to an outside observer.
When the GB declared themselves to be the “faithful and discreet slave,” this must have justified their motivation to start showing their faces more prominently. They are finally getting the adoration and recognition that they deserve. They have set themselves up on thrones, for all the worldwide web to see.
We are almost 2016, this alone tells that they have taught lies for more than a century. Everybody makes mistakes but you cannot be wrong for so long. Instead of asking people to comeback to the org the governing body should act as normal people. They should realise that a person is not evil if does not agree with their flawed viewpoints.
Now their growth is close to 0 and their moving mountains to adjust the stats.
I am envious of your kindness. Sir, you do a great service. You have helped me get over the rage and anger in me by bringing a readonsonable discourse to the table.
Please keep up the good work. I will be always listening to what you say
I tried to watch it but his sickly sweet pleading just made me annoyed. I’ll wait for Lloyd to do his bit on it and then watch.
Tara, Me to.
Sanderson appears to be a latent homosexual (not that there is anything wrong with that). I don’t think he is married. I could just imagine all the hot pioneer babes that would want him and have probably thrown themselves at him. So I would conclude he is gay. I love him in his Mexican wedding shirt. Just wonder how he got that position. For that mathere any of the GB. None of them appear to be very bright.
I haven’t seen the broadcast, and probably won’t. Waiting to see if my family will send me an invitation. Don’t think that they will though. I would see it as an opportunity to open up some way of them starting to use their own reasoning power! I’ve heard of more people leaving now, and that’s a great sign. You can fool the people some time, but you can’t do it all the time. Sooner or later the governing body will make such a fool out of themselves that it will be their undoing. Great response Lloyd Evans.
In my opinion the JW religion is nothing but a corporation – I dont agree with so many things with regards to this religion. Why would they want me back? I would be a fly in their ointment.
Is it for Money? Counting Numbers?
Can they be so oblivious to the fact that so many have left because they can no longer tolerate the fact that this religion is really about money, cover ups, ever changing doctrines, rules rules rules not found in the Bible and mainly about ensuring that their reputation goes untarnished.
The internet is exposing the witness religion for what it truly is and it appears to me that it aint gonna stop.
I don’t think it really is a publishing company like so many people say here. But yet it is a corporation. They don’t charge for their literature here in the USA. They rely on donations. Judging by the GB ill fit ting suits and lovely silver shoes it doesn’t appear that the GB is benefitting from large amounts of cash. Yes they do appear to be living off the fat of the land judging by their belly sizes. They do fly around and act like rock stars but I don’t think any of them have big bank accounts filled with money from the society. They really don’t need it. I do see some of them as hypocrites building Wallkill to ensure a comfortable future for themselves then telling people not to get an education. Lucky for me I went to school and have a nice profession making decent coin.
Markie: Have you seen this video of Geoffrey Jackson, where he appears to be wearing a gold Apple Watch?
https://youtu.be/gBE_oof1RzE
If you are uninterested in listening to his testimony to the Australian Royal Commission, you can skip ahead in the video to get a better view of the watch, beginning at 55:45 in the video.
The price for a gold Apple Watch in the US, starts at $10,000. There are more comments about this watch at http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/440110001/geoffrey-jacksons-golden-apple-watch-investigated
You can’t really tell what kind of watch that is. People are seeing what they want to see. Their suits are all very cheap looking. None of them fit like they are a canvased suit. They look like cheap fused suits.
“the reason we don’t go back is because it simply isn’t true.”
That’s the key to the whole thing! If it was true then I would still be in and trying to reconcile all the extra strangeness.
It’s simply not true and that makes all the misery that it’s doctrine causes all the more intolerable.
Well put…
If only our relatives who haven’t yet woken up could just take the bible at face value. Its teaching is the salvation comes through faith in the death and resurrection of the Christ. Yet the teaching of the watchtower is that salvation is only possible through an unquestioning allegiance to the W/T corporation.
Yes! If only… and that is almost exactly how I put it to my mom a few weeks ago:
“I’m still hoping that you and Dad are going to wake up one day, and realize that this was all a mistake. Your family will be here, and we love you unconditionally.”
Velvia blue: you summed it all up in a nutshell ! It was all about being in alliance and under the subjection of men, rather than under subjection to God and Christ. Now these power hungry tyrants realize that vast numbers are waking up and freeing themselves from years of enslavement, they have gone into panic mode. Using Guilt tripping tricks to entice the freed captives to come back to slavery…who in their rights senses would ever want to do that? Nooh!! Watchtower ! Enough is enough ! We have had more than enough with you.. Ya done !! We are through..My fifty years is more than I should have given you..Not another nickel, not another dime.And certainly!!! Not a second of reporting time.
I agree with previous comments: The GB has placed themselves in the spotlight. This will prove itself to be a big mistake for themselves and their corporation.
Cedars: I love the reply that you composed! It was compassionate and honest… something a JW will not get from their brothers in the congregation.
I’m grateful for the work you do here. I feel like I’m informed and up-to-date on enough of the developments in the WT organization, without having to subject myself to their relentless propaganda.
Again, I am so glad I got away from these deceivers, before they made any claims on me or my children!
… although I will always welcome their doorstop visits, and I will definitely use some of your words when they do come for a return visit. :)
“The question isn’t why you have become inactive…” Yes, yes it is. That is the most important question. And although you try and ignore it and attribute it to being blinded by Satan or an arrogant and prideful spirit, you continue to allow your members to go on being held captive to an organization that they no longer believe in purely because they don’t want to be shunned. And you continue to enact policies that help to shelter child molesters. Also, you use women to do the lion’s share of your preaching work but will not allow them to hold positions of responsibility.
So yes Mark, it DOES MATTER WHY!
I guess the internet has really begun to take it’s toll on this religion to the point that they can only appeal to the emotional side of people anymore. The facts are in and there’s no disputing they are a false religion with false prophecies.
1 component of a cult religion is to recruit or in this case re-recruit members on a emotional level.
Any organization that has to rely on membership for financial support must have a growing membership in order for the greater organization to grow. The WTS organization is in plateau or (hopefully) in decline now, because of the internet and education. Thus, the reason for the plea to disassociated and faded members. It has no other resource than the accumulated wealth (i.e. real estate and stock holdings) to draw upon for sustenance.
Poor little Mark, when he gets older, his organization will be only a shadow of the former empire of Sir Judge Rutherford.
asi es nuestras emociones nos conectan directamente con el miedo a la muerte
“el miedo es un lazo” :-)
las emociones ya no son mi vista creo todos los seres que salimos de este gran enriedo tenemos bien claro cual es la señal de no avanzar: y es cuando el estomago se transforma en un nudo y el corazon se arruga de dolor e impotencia ufff 35 años de ulceras ansioliticos antidepresivos antiparanoides y no se cuantas enfermedades mas que hoy por hoy no existen en mi ni remotamente la LIBERTAD no tiene PRECIO $$$$$$ WACHTOWERRRR INC.!!!
Thanx for all the comments this am,just what I needed to hear…I started “fadeing” years ago when most of my family (made excuses) for not coming to my sons wedding,he had been d f for smoking,and unfortunately babtised young.its one thing for a person to deal with the shunning of oneself or of a mate,but completely another to watch your kids,kids get snob~Ed when the cousins used to be best of friends.so I find myself taking delight in the thought of the bursting of their bubble…the inevitable J~w. Self implosion on the horizon! Lloyde…did u ever imagine what u started would come to this??Thanx
Just a side comment about the org. “Not charging for their publications “, that was not at the direction of the Holy Spirit as has been inferred, it was the fact that they would lose their tax free status as a non profit corporation. I believe it was in connection with the Baker/Swaggat fallout. ..where the watchtower actually filled “friends of the court briefs”, hoping to sway the justices to rule in favor of those “T.V. Evangelist”
Very well aware of that. But truth of the matter is they don’t charge and rely on donations from a bunch of poor people. I know how much is contributed in my congregation and it really is not that much. Maybe that is why they are asking for money.
You’re correct. This org has painted itself in a corner by limiting the potential of so many people that could have had a chance in this world. Even to this day, the GB frowns on higher education and individual achievement. Now, the WTS has to reap what they have sown. Good enough for ’em! The GB gets what they deserve, a declining accounts receivable.
This is NOT pro-Catholic but the Catholics have had the same campaign for a long time, return home to the Catholic church. To me it seems the JWs have been pulling from other religious organizations ideas that seem to be working, Return to Catholic church, Family Night ( LDS),VeggieTales/ non-denom Christian church ( Caleb and Sophia cartoons)and a symbol to bow to or worship( The Blue Square).
Their are following the a same modus operandi as the mainstream churches. For instance in the menio park congregation trial.watchtower made a statement via their attorney Calvin rouse: That we just like the Catholic church, an hierarchy..That should speak volumes to any present jw.That disputes it’s claim to be different. It’s is actually the same as the others it criticizes..So that’s another reason not to go back to the GB’S. OF SCAMMERS and LIARS.
Coming back to Jehovah God means coming back to their publishing company/ religion???!!!!!
Well put Lloyd. Very dignified. And hopefully will nudge someone toward intellectual honesty.
Looking forward to your book!
“Anne”
(https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100010359243959)
Not your best article John. If your suggested reply goes as far as to say you would not return because it simply isn’t true, then why not also tell them it’s also because of the very real harm and suffering many of the organizations teachings cause, eg, the death causing blood transfusions policy, etc. And because you see too much rotten fruitage and a lack of real love. And because you feel the org is more like an abusive, threatening parent rather than a loving, kind parent. Trying to confine a response to just saying you don’t go back simply because it isn’t true is a gross simplification and reduction of the whole issue to nothing but an intellectual issue when there are so many other important reasons that must be bravely stated for the sake of the victims. In other words, the moral reasons for not returning are equally, and probably more, of a reason not to return than the intellectual reasons.
You want me back in?
Here are my terms
1) Eliminate the two witness rule in cases of abuse
2) Eliminate shunning as there isn’t a man alive who can read hearts and minds like the Christ, therefore none but he can judge. Mathew 25
3) Stop discouraging our youth from attending universities. Please see the testimonies of your buddies at the Australian Royal Commision for reasons why this is of upmost urgency in your organization.
4) Eliminate all attempts to predict the future. This is how God himself through his word points his finger at you and screams “false prophets!” Deutoronomy 18:18-22, Proverbs 30:5,6, Revelation 22:18-23
5) Stop calling yourselves the annointed class, its just gas. You yourselves say that all scripture is inspired, stop nit picking at the verses in the book of Revelations to fabricate some elite status amongst Christ followers.
6) The original sin was not a lie, but a murmuring for defamations sake against Gods reputation. This eliminates 99.9% of your elders wives, time to act on that cause of stumbling and clean house of all murmurers and defamers by making them apologize to the congregation from the stage.
7) Encourage the friends to preach as much as they can without the pyramid scheme of merit badges for outstanding hours. The titles pioneer and publisher are not biblical teachings. Gods word says that my left hand shouldn’t notice what my right is doing, in other words, how much I preach is none of your bussiness and strictly between me and my God and his son.
8) Stop attacking men for growing their God created and alloted facial hair while allowing the painting of the natural hair, the changing of natural eye color, the use of wigs in worship. Please see http://www.google.com for definition of the biblically used word -Hypocrites
9) Eliminate the stupid suit and tie requirements. Modest dress absolutely, but my weekly worship of my God shouldn’t be treated as a G8 summit. I am positive my loving God will not strike me down for wearing Dockers and a cardigan.
10) Get rid of all bigots in leadership positions. Every congregation should have an annual vote of who they want to pastor them. Your only requirement now is who puts in, or claims to put in the hours in field service. Develop a written test of 1000 questions completely based on scripture that your elder candidates who must have been baptized at least 15 tears must answer in one sitting without their Bibles or electronic devices. Your current elder lineup is an embarrassment to the entire evangelical world. I just had one of your Bethel elite elders explain to me through one of your Awake magazines how it is the Faithful Slave had God reveal to them that animals also have DNA in their bodies along with most sea creatures. (and you want me to come back to these geniuses?)
11) Make apologizing and recovering all of Gods sheep tossed into the world by shunning a requirement for keeping current elders. This must be done by the antichrist committee that tossed them.
12) We are never going away, we will be fact checking everything you say and print until the end of the Watchtower. Our methods of exposing the antichrist watchtower society will only increase exponentially in the future. Time for change is running out.
13) blood transfusions- Life is a precious gift from God, with a promise for more some day, we must show him how badly we want to keep it. Commiting honorable suicide by refusing treatment is not a way of showing an appreciation for said gift.
Revelation 22:18-22 Stop twisting Gods words, no one here wants to drink a blood smoothie, only preserve life when absolutely needed.
Robert 67 – you pretty much nailed it.
May I add……stop punishing individuals who speck the truth, even if it’s not “current ” official doctrine. And, let’s report our history candidly not revising to give the best impression, if it makes us look bad ….so be it, What ancient prophet was worried about making the king/nation look good?
It’s time to unravel the lies.
Whew!!! Don’t hold your breath! You’ll suffocate!
These are valid points to straiten the crooked ways of this organization. Unfortunately, the GB couldn’t do a do many of these changes for the better, even if they wanted to. Why? The avalanche of lawsuits that would follow them.
However, if this is God’s one and true religion, then what do they have to fear for doing the right thing in the first place? That’s because the WTS isn’t God’s organization!
I thought this was interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVXZsFVlM9g
Terrible customer care by the WT
Money ? Look at the latest letter to all B.O.E. pic.twitter.com/uYmAUWXyjt
Latest letter to Body of Elders about service meeting part on December 21st about giving money .
Follow this link
https://twitter.com/ThatTennantGuy/status/660830080470511616/photo/1
You are inspired Rob 67 i could not agree more . the only other thing that should be mandated is every Jehovah’s Christian Witness must read the entire Bible before they go out in a ministry .Must be baptised in the name of The Father,The son,and the Holy Spirit no other words clauses phrases lies and alliances to an org.And finally use God’s word ONLY in said ministry and all their meetings It would make interesting reading and phenominal spiritual growth. Ah but I hear you say that would be too simple , too near the Truth of the matter and may expose all the daft prophecies and interpretations as the erronious load of nonsense that it is. But if those stars don’t want crushing in the hand of the Almighty better get a wiggle on and start using the Bible and nothing else.Then you will see happy sheep come back in their droves with new ones too but the onus is on the gb to stick to the Bible alone not their drivel and spew. Bet ya they could never do it because it would take humility and honesty something that this org is not built on and would detract from their own pontificating. Oh well for a brief moment i had a dream. Now i woke up! ruthlee
Since they love to use this scripture on anyone returning to “Christendom,” I’d say let’s apply it to them in their invitation to “come home”:
2 pet 2:22 – but it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
To return to the mind control, the fear-based programming and the unquestioning acceptance of any and all “new light” would be like eating vomit!
My husband and I stopped going to meetings 4 months ago but just recently we are getting cards, phone calls and visits from family and old friends from the hall. They are concerned about us and want us to come back because the ‘end’ is right around the corner. My brother, who never talks to me anyway and I think my mom made him do it, came to my house and told me he thought i was wrong to stop going to meetings and that he felt he would be blood guilty if he did not tell me so. I just know now all of my jw relatives will be coming out of the woodwork needing to tell me what we are doing is wrong and it is very stressful. Would love some suggestions going forward.
Lock the door, close the curtains and hide behind the window…. Oh wait…. HBH Home but hiding lol. We got told off for writing that on the door to door slips. actually it’s exactly what I do on a saturday morning if I have no where else to be around 9:30 – noon.
thanks for the laugh, that is exactly what I am doing.
Ruth
Only you know why you left and only you know why you wouldn’t go back.
Write up a list of ALL those reasons and the things you don’t agree with and send it off to all those you know or come knocking.
Tell them why. Take a stand for what you know.
Well, Mark, thanks for the offer to come home, but I’ve found a new home.
My new home is full of freedom of thought, and the chance to become whatever I want to become, and friends who love me for who I am and not simply because I agree to follow whatever orders seven old out of touch men give.
It’s full of a life lived to a full potential and not postponed for a never-never land built on theocratic genocide. It’s full of the right to make my own choices and experience the highs and lows of those chosen paths. It’s full of the right to live, and love, and think, and speak as the person I really am and not the person you think I should be.
I did give a quick glance to my old home, the one you’re offering to me, but to be honest, it’s a bit silly and full of paedophiles.
Yours-sincerely-and-absolutly-totally-never-coming-backly
Covertfade
I forced myself to watch the whole video and it was simply gagging to me through the whole thing.
We had two visitors on Sunday night and I love them both so much but I can tell that when they come here, that they think I will be so happy if I “return” to the Kingdom Hall and were just bubbling over with how happy they are that they are in the “truth”.
I didn’t want to come right out and tell them that I hate the Governing Body and think they are a bunch of liars so I copped out and told them that I was agnostic and the looks on their faces were that they felt so sorry for me. I tried to reassure them that I was happy but I could tell they still felt so sorry for me. They went on and on about how it was the “best way of life”, being a Witness and how even though they don’t understand the Hebrew Scriptures and why Jehovah killed all those people and how Lot slept with his daughters and how David killed all those people because David took a census and on and on, it was still the “best way of life”.
I just smiled and only was able to tell them a couple of things like what the real ten commandments really are as in Exodus 33 and that ours is the only Bible that implies that Jephthah did not kill his daughter and they did say they were going to go home and look it up. At least I accomplished that much. But I couldn’t say anything else. My husband sat there and about taped my mouth shut but it was the delusional happiness they were trying to get across that was the biggest obstacle to my telling them how I really feel about the “truth” that held me back from spilling my guts to them, if only to save them from wasting the rest of their lives on the lies of the Society. Being in the position of knowing the whole truth about the “truth” is the worst position to be in and as much as I want to warn them, I know what a horrible position it will put them in and that to be in that position like what we all are in, once we learn the real truth, is the worst position to be in and is life destroying.
There are so many people (like our friends that came over) who really love the “truth” and if they could listen with an open ear why we have left the “truth”, they would not want to have anything to do with it either. If we could only warn our families and friends and we could all escape it together. That is the best way to escape but the Watchtower has done such a good job of mind control over them, that it’s almost impossible to do.
What the Society doesn’t do in that latest jwbroadcasting episode, when it comes to encouraging former Witnesses to come “home”, is to let those people start spewing anything negative about the Society. They carefully scripted that into one of the experiences.
The former Witnesses who might receive a visit from active Witnesses, know full well that if they start saying anything negative about the Society they will be called on the carpet for apostasy and so they can’t say how they really feel if it’s negative towards the Society.
The Society is only going after people who still believe it’s the “truth” but just got lazy or left because of some other reason like depression or married out of the “truth” or got disfellowshipped or something like that.
In that video, it never encouraged active Witnesses to listen to the real reasons the inactive Witnesses left but made it look like once these people come back to meetings, that they will be welcomed into a “family” of smiling and happy friends again. This might work for friendless people but once these people start associating again, the burdens will be on them once again to go in service (a lot), all the meetings and assemblies and on and on.
The video makes it look like all those people at the Kingdom Hall are so happy but that video is made up of a bunch of actors, playing a part. In real Kingdom Halls, many people are at the meetings because they are guilted into going or else they think God will kill them at Armageddon. Many patiently sit through the meetings so they can socialize afterwards and before the meetings, but if they don’t have any real close friends at the Kingdom Hall, they can walk in and sit there and walk out and go home afterwards and suffer the worst depression because they are not one of the popular ones. I remember lots of times, putting my time in at the meetings and going home and stuffing my face with ice cream because the meetings made me so depressed. That is the reality of a lot of us.
If you go in service a lot and don’t miss any meetings, they might still pick on you because you might have mentioned a certain television show that you liked that wasn’t what they might have approved of. That happened to me a lot of the time so I learned to keep my mouth shut most of the time so as not to be judged. You can’t even talk about any book you might have read and enjoyed. Once I did that and a pioneer sister said “if I had that kind of time, I’d be reading the Bible instead”. She said that while she was going to the bathroom at McDonalds during break and I was washing up my hands.
I heard that our congregation had a congregation needs talk a couple months ago and suggested that if you aren’t regular at meetings and not putting in a lot of time in service then you are bad association. I heard that some people felt pretty hurt by that. I know the reason for a talk like that is to guilt people into not missing meetings and going in service more. A talk like that, wouldn’t encourage me, but discourage me but that is how the brothers think. They hold out the “carrot” of people associating with you, by how much you can do in the “truth”.
If only all those people could realize that the Society has no control over them at all and all that “love” is only conditional. So many of those people could get off their pills that they are keeping, not to kill themselves because of the depression that being a Witness brings on them because of all the burdens it imposes on them, once they start associating again or once they “come home” to the Kingdom Hall.
That’s one comment I’d love to hear at a meeting.
This word “inactive” is a control word.
It also shows the opinion they have of themselves. It (the word) is based on Peters words. How do they know I’m “inactive”?, or is it because I disagree and disagree with being labelled too? Yours is obviously the right way, how stupid could I be, I’m so sorry.
Arrogance to describe a person like that and then promote yourself as the right way. . Me thinks.
We haven’t been to a meeting since the special talk last year, and I would agree that the people in general are not happy. We were the inactive ones who you think they’d be putting on a good front for and trying to encourage, but there’s just too much dysfunction to keep bottled up for that long. Just smile and nod your head as they divulge their emotional, financial and family woes, one after another. Our own families suspect how inactive we are, but still complain to us about the problems in the congregation, and moan about the same individuals who were bothering them 20 years ago. Somehow I think we’re a subconscious outlet for them, a touchstone of reality. I keep hoping we’ll “win them over without a word” if they eventually recognize how relatively sane our lives have become since we’ve faded. I leave little crumbs of TATT here and there covertly in conversation. Time will tell.
@ Caroline
Good comment. I know tons of JWs that are on pills for depression anxiety disorders. In no way do I wish to judge anyone who suffers from depression, rather, I like you realize that situational depression is very high amongst JW’s. Where is holy spirit that produces peace of mind that excels all thought.
I think some of these persons would perhaps be better served if they were to visit a professional counsellor/therapist/psychologist. Sadly the WT discourages JWs from seeking outside help from worldly persons. They are instead told that there are qualified elders appointed to shepherd the flock of God and that these elders are “like a hiding place from the wind, a place of concealment from the rainstorm, like streams of water in a waterless land, like the shadow of a massive crag in a parched land” (Isaiah 32:2).
Unfortunately, many of these elders haven’t a clue about counselling psychology, they do not have the experience, skills and know-how to deal with psychological/mental health issues and so many in the congregations do not get the right help that they need.
Caroline, I think this push to return to Jehovah is to make those who are still fooled by all this, to think that the GB is doing such a fine job and is so loving, that they would ask those who left to return. It just makes the GB look good they think. And it is also to reassure the friends that they are in the time of the end and that they are doing the right thing here. Oh how kind they are?
Meredith J, I agree with you completely. That “show” was to make themselves look good. There was no sincerity in it at all.
Now when we get visits from people who before didn’t want anything to do with us, come calling, we can ask them why now????
I will tell them that I also watch jwbroadcasting. Why now, when before, I wasn’t good enough to visit with? The only ones that are welcome in my house now are those who would talk to me BEFORE the broadcast.
What is so curious is that now, one of my cousins suddenly is posting on my Facebook page again but for months, she wasn’t. It is so obvious.
They can’t think for themselves and whatever the Watchtower tells them to do, they do. They are non-thinking, non-feeling robots in my opinion. I don’t “need” those kinds of friends. Fortunately, I still have family who aren’t Witnesses and they aren’t fake.
My husband has been diagnosed with inoperable stage four cancer and as much as he “loves” the “truth”, you think anybody from his hall will call him or come over to visit him??? Hell no.
As much as our oldest daughter “loves” the “truth”, she is very disappointed with our congregation too but she won’t stop “loving” the “truth”. It should tell her something but it doesn’t. All it does, is break her heart at how unloving they are here. All’s he gotten are some really stupid get well cards.
But, now, in the shape he’s in, I don’t even want to tell him any more about the lies of the Watchtower. Now, I am glad he’s at least got the hope of waking up in the new world, like what he thinks is going to happen.
Jehovah’s Witnesses are the only ones I think who can’t deal with death. They are all led to believe that they aren’t going to die, which is such a shame because if Armageddon doesn’t come like they think it will in their life time (which it hasn’t for over one hundred years and counting now), they have wasted their only short years they had on this earth, serving a publishing company when they could have been going to school, expanding their minds, raising families and enjoying their short lives, instead of being forced to go in service, meetings and studying all that Watchtower literature and spending how much money going in service, going to assemblies and sticking their money into the contribution boxes and washing windows and cleaning houses. What a shame it all was.
How many of those people died because they refused blood and how many of their kids died because they couldn’t take blood? And for what? So a publishing company could build more and more Kingdom Halls and assembly halls to build up their real estate empire.
I am df’d, but attempting to return, for 4+ years I have attended all the meetings and lived a ‘sin-free’ life but no success at being reinstated. In fact after one letter requesting reinstatement it took 6 months after the committee meeting, for the body of elders even to give a reply. I would say that my ‘sin’ was particularly notorious, also being female I think makes a big difference. Just interested if any of the elders /ex-elders out there can tell me if there is an unwritten law that x years must pass before considering reinstatement. I am not in the original congregation so away from certain ones who were affected. When I have asked why, they have just made excuses, for example saying the brothers wouldn’t feel comfortable if I was allowed back into the congregation….feeling more and more disillusioned. So even though they are saying that they want inactive ones to return to the fold, for disfellowshipped ones it’s a different matter!!!
Very good comments Robert67 by the way….
Hi dissilusioned,
hang in there my friends! I was in the same-ish situation, I wrote a letter requesting to be reinstated every 3 months… they kept saying oh.. the brothers would be stumbled if you got reinstated right away etc. keep those letters coming! I this they have a 1 year minimum policy…unwritten rule of course. Stay strong… and most importantly do your research and get free from this crazy cult!
But is it unconditional love that’s on offer? A resounding no! As long as you go back cap in hand so to speak and admit that you were wrong to develop independent thinking and accept all the Borg’s teaching all will be forgotten. I for one will not be doing that, but I prefer to remain under their radar and watch things develop…
If you bow down and do one act of worship to me….. hmm. Get behind me satan/GB
I’m sorry Lloyd, but I don’t really like that answer, particularly because of this part:
“If you are convinced it is “the truth,” then please show me the evidence and I will request a bible study and start attending meetings”
The problem with that statement is that Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t have the faintest clue what the word “evidence” means, and this is just inviting a long, frustrating conversation full of nonsense.
I would simply state that I have no desire to “come back” to something that simply isn’t true, and I certainly don’t support the many harmful beliefs the Jehovah’s Witnesses are indoctrinated to accept. Beliefs that are immoral and anti-scientific. There is nothing that a Jehovah’s Witness can say or do that would make me even consider returning to that facade, because I’m intimately familiar with the cult and all its teachings and I want no part of it. Ever.
..that’s how I would approach it.
@Richard, if my husband is any indicator of what it is like trying to talk to a Witness who is convinced it is the “truth”, it simply won’t work to tell them that it isn’t the truth and that the beliefs are immoral and anti-scientific and that there is nothing they can say or do to make us return. You can’t get out two words and they close their minds.
The best thing to do is to turn the table on them and have them convince us what kind of evidence they have that it’s the true religion because there is no evidence and putting them on the spot like that, will for them for once in their life, to try and come up with proof.
All our lives, we read from the magazines that it was God’s organization, but they never once gave any evidence. We just took their word for it, like the 1981 March 1st Watchtower pages 24-27 called “Do You Appreciate the Faithful and Discreet Slave” where on page 27 it lists 80 supposedly “Overwhelming Credentials”. I am going to list them and this list explains it all.
1) Noah’s wife
2) angels sent to Lot
3) Rebekah
4) Joseph and Benjamin
5) gleanings left behind
6) two spies to Rahab
7) Barak
8) Jephthah
9) Naomi and Ruth
10) David’s Israelite warriors
11) Jehu
12) Mordecai and Esther’
13) Job
14) King’s daughter
15) men of loving-kindness
16) Intimate group
17) Shear-jashub
18) light of the nations
19) big trees of righteousness
20) ministers of our God
21) cluster preserved
22) servants called by another name
23) men trembling
24) new nation born
25) Jeremiah
26) Jehovah’s people in the new covenant
27) enduring watchman
28) cleansed people
29) cleansed people
30) dwellers in center of earth
31) the host of heaven
32) sanctuary restored (cleansed)
33) they that are wise
34) the happy one who is keeping in expectation
35) all flesh receiving the spirit
36) Jonah
37) apple of Jehovah’s eye
38) liberated remnant
39) a Jew
40) Sons of Levi
41) Wheat
42) sons of the kingdom
43) workers for the vineyard
44) those invited to marriage feast
45) chosen ones
46) eagles
47) faithful and discreet slave
48) discreet virgins
49) brothers of the king
50) little flock of sheep
51) beggar Lazarus
52) sheep in “this fold”
53) branches of the vine
54) royal palace of David
55) heirs with Christ
56) the remnant
57) branches in the olive tree
58) holy ones or saints
59) temple
60) new creation
61) ambassadors for Christ
61) congregation of God
63) part of Abraham’s seed
64) Israel of God
65) body of Christ
66) soldiers of Christ Jesus
67) house under Christ
68) holy priesthood
69) holy nation
70) association of brothers
71) seven congregations
72) twenty-four persons of advanced age
73) spiritual Israel
74) locusts
75) two witnesses
76) two olive trees
77) seed of the woman
78) New Jerusalem
79) the bride of Christ
80) Jehovah’s Witnesses
After each of these “overwhelming” credentials, is a scripture. In the old days, I would have looked up those scriptures and tried to apply it to the Governing Body’s “credentials”. Now I look at those scriptures and would like to have the Society explain how those scriptures apply to their having overwhelming credentials. What this looks like to me, is that they opened up their Bibles and pointed at a scripture and put it down as a “credential”. Those supposed “credentials” are ridiculous, to say the least.
We never expected the Watchtower to explain how any of those scriptures apply to anything they ever wrote. They put scriptures in the paragraphs and WE supplied the explanation, pretending like we “got it”.
We played right into their hands and that is because we believed what they said without asking for any evidence. They don’t have any evidence of any credentials or they would have come up with something a whole lot better than what they did, not this nonsense that they put in that Watchtower article.
Witnesses have no evidence. All they have is the Governing Body saying that they were appointed by God. Put any Witness on the spot and see what evidence they come up with.
What you will hear is that they are the only ones using Jehovah’s name (not true). They will say they are the only ones preaching from door to door (not true). They will say to look at the fruitage (doesn’t prove a thing). They will say they are the only ones who won’t join the army (not true).
What matters is, do they have any evidence that it’s God’s only organization and they don’t have evidence. They only take the Society’s word for it.
@Caroline, I understand your point of view. From my experience speaking to my family members, they simply don’t understand the meaning of the word evidence. When I’ve “turned it around” on the, and asked them for evidence to prove what they believe is true, the things that constitute evidence in their mind are just ridiculous, and when you try to explain what would actually constitute real evidence, they disagree and accuse me of “just wanting to make excuses to sin”, and “you’re just mad at Jehovah”.. and the conversation becomes pointless and ugly. That’s my experience anyways.