I was in Zurich making my way home from a series of Jehovah’s Witness-related gatherings in Europe when I first heard news of the terrible events in Paris on January 7th.
On that awful day masked gunmen burst into the offices of the Charlie Hebdo French satirical newspaper and slaughtered 12 people in what appear to have been reprisals for the publishing of depictions of the prophet Muhammad.
A further five were killed in the days that followed as the suspects tried and failed to evade the authorities by taking hostages.
At this point you are probably wondering “yes, but what does this have to do with Jehovah’s Witnesses?”
Simply put, the events in Paris teach us two chilling lessons, (1) that religious bullies will always try to silence those who criticize them, just as Watchtower repeatedly tries to silence its critics through slander, misrepresentation and threats of ostracism, and (2) that society in general offers little or no protection against harmful cults, because it ultimately fails to recognize the immense threat posed by undue influence underpinned by religious dogma.
Silencing the critics
I was recently myself accused of trying to silence people when I made a stand against “aggressive activism” in a recent YouTube video and accompanying JWsurvey article. Those leveling this accusation at me seemed to confuse the offering of an honest opinion in a persuasive way with some form of censorship.
I can only hope such people have witnessed the chilling events in Paris and have found the opportunity to reflect on what genuine denial of the democratic right to free speech really looks like.
If I really wanted to set about silencing people who disagree with me, I could do far worse than to take a few pages from Watchtower’s book. A good start would be to get any websites taken down that use my material in a way that fails to serve my agenda, just as Watchtower did in January of 2013 when JWsurvey was taken offline for 24 hours for the heinous crime of making a secret elder’s letter on child abuse available.
I could also lobby YouTube to take down any videos from critics that happen to reproduce my words in a manner of which I disapprove, just as Watchtower did only last month when they had one of my videos removed from YouTube simply because it featured the un-embellished words of Tony Morris.
If I were feeling especially malicious, I might find a way of violating the basic human rights of my accusers by somehow coercing their family members to ostracize them – perhaps based on specious public claims about their mental state, just as Watchtower does through its shunning policy (so recently underscored in the following sickly piece of propaganda in the April 15th Watchtower)…
To download the full magazine, click here.
I do not suggest for one moment that Watchtower’s shunning policy is somehow on a par with violent Islamic extremism, but the truth is there are some very concerning parallels that must be addressed.
A common denominator
If there is one thing all cults are good at, it is silencing their critics and stripping them of their basic rights. Islam does this through overt threats of violence and slaughter toward any who oppose or insult its prophet and teachings, while other cults like Watchtower find more subtle, insidious means of gagging their opponents, as mentioned above.
At this point you might be screaming “but Islam isn’t a cult, it’s a religion of peace!” And I wouldn’t blame you for assimilating the default position of almost all politicians and journalists, who have a vested interest in keeping everyone happy by making appeasing “one size fits all” statements about a religion they apparently know nothing about.
But the simple truth is, the most cursory study of the Quran and its accompanying Hadith reveals a religion brimming with hatred and intolerance of any who refuse to subject themselves to it.
Non-believers (“infidels”) and apostates are not to be accommodated in any form other than as slaves. They are to be subjugated or destroyed, just as any who reject the message of Jehovah’s Witnesses can expect a feathery annihilation once Armageddon arrives and hungry birds summoned by angels begin to circle.
The only explanation I have so far heard from Muslim apologists is that the numerous incitements to jihad in Islamic texts are to be taken figuratively, or refer to some form of “inner jihad” – a battle within oneself. But this explanation, at least from the perspective of this jaded cult survivor, simply doesn’t cut it – especially when you consider that the earliest mass conversions made by followers of Muhammad during the birth of the religion in Arabia were made, not by administering hugs and being nice to people, but by the sword.
Knowing your enemy
Islam is not a religion of peace, just as Jehovah’s Witnesses is not a religion of love. To say otherwise is to disregard the written teachings and commands of either or both religions.
Yes, the majority of Muslims are peaceful, and we should be thankful that this is so. Civilization as we know it depends on this being the case. But the fact that the innate humanity of most Muslims can cause them to ignore or re-invent passages in their sacred texts that summon them to “make war on the infidels who dwell around you” (Quran 9:123) in no way lets their religion (specifically its holy book) off the hook.
By the same token I know for a fact that there are Jehovah’s Witnesses who refuse to shun their disfellowshipped family members (albeit secretly in many cases), but this does not represent a “get out of jail free” card for the Governing Body, or excuse them for their grotesquely immoral prohibitions on so much as emailing Witness family members who have left. (see w13 1/15 p.16 par.19)
As much as many refuse to accept it, the events in Paris were not the product of a few mindless psychopaths who would have found some other excuse to gun down cartoonists if they weren’t Muslims. We have all just witnessed the inevitable result of a lethal cocktail of harmful, absolutist ideology and traditions coupled with extremely potent and persuasive undue influence techniques – and not for the first time.
Unwilling to intervene
Once you allow yourself to fully grasp this realization there is something even more chilling to consider, and that is the total impotence of society in general to even recognize the problem, let alone deal with it.
Governments that mobilize and devote huge resources around a mantra as abstract as “the war on terror” without acknowledging their real enemy, Islamic fundamentalism, hardly seem equipped to grapple with the complexities of cult mind control and the damage it inflicts.
This is why authorities in countries that pride themselves on democracy and adherence to human rights flounder at almost every opportunity to deal appropriately with cults like Jehovah’s Witnesses when they mishandle child abuse, or tear families apart through mandated shunning.
At the very least such behavior should be met with the withdrawal of tax exempt and (it should go without saying) charitable status. If there is one area in which you CAN slap a cult’s wrist, it is on their balance sheet.
Instead, time and again intolerant organizations such as Watchtower are allowed to thrive as those in power look the other way, so terrified are political leaders of being perceived as (you guessed it)… intolerant.
It is for the same reason that bright young girls and boys continue to be radicalized into Islamic extremists: because governments refuse to accept the true, horrifying scope of religious indoctrination through undue influence.
Without even a willingness to address the problem of cult mind control (or whatever name you wish to assign it), there is little hope of authorities exploring means of inoculating young ones against these vile techniques, or reprimanding groups that utilize them to such deadly effect.
This merry-go-round of ignorance, ineptitude and injustice was one of the most depressing discoveries for me when I first awakened from cult indoctrination, and the events in Paris and the way they are being spun by the mainstream media are an unwelcome reminder of the broken world I live in – a world where the violent silencing of an opinion is followed by whining calls to “respect” the very thing responsible for pulling the trigger.
Related video…
***I understand many of you will object to the tone of this article by saying that it contravenes the religious neutrality policy of this website. However, I have never been against people holding their own private beliefs, merely against these being inflicted on others. I feel recent events are an important reminder of what happens when we allow people free license to bully and intimidate people whether for religious or political imperatives, and I wanted to use this opportunity to explain why it is that we live in a society where groups that engage in such behavior are allowed to thrive.***
Sorry last sentence in last comment should have read JESUS would have not chosen this Organisation in 1919 . I wrote ‘ORGYIN’ it reads like ‘Orgy In ‘ !! Sorry I can STOP LAUGHING!! It must have been all the years of being in the organisation & years of sexual repression!!’ It’s unconsciously coming out in MY FINGERS AS I TYPE. I think MY FINGERS Are Subliminally Unconscious???
@Timothy Smith, with respect,
Jehovah’s witnesses are not a pacifist religious society, they may not go to war, but how many people have they spiritually mudered?
For instance, Lloyd has a personal belief system, we all do, it maybe political, religious, or non religious, and I may agree or disagree with some of those beliefs, that is acceptance.
Regardless of his personal beliefs , the Watchtower disfellowedshipped Lloyd as an apostate for the reason of highlighting the Watchtowers false claims and indoctrination methods. In all those articles and video’s I have yet to find a weakness in the evidence Lloyd has provided. So what was the reason Lloyd was excommunicated, because he was untruthful? , no , because he opposed religious oppression and indoctrination. In fact I asked Lloyd this question,” are they excommunicating you because you have taught something false”, the answer is obvious. Lloyd now has to bear the consequences of his stand against religious indoctrination and intolerance through his family. I think that is disgraceful. I do not believe the Watchtower is a pacifist organization rather a religious bully and hypocrite, the very worst in practicing bigotry and indoctrination.
I do not believe that the Watchtower organization is a pacifist organization. It, on a daily basis, commits spiritual murder and blackens a person’s reputation among its peers and a person’s family, simply for disagreeing with it. Simply put religious intolerance and indoctrination.
Would the Watchtower Society ever advocate physical murder?
Consider the religious indoctrination regarding blood fractions in the 1970s and their current position. Of course now fractions are a matter of conscience but that was not always the case.
My argument against this current teaching is simple, if the use of blood fractions is now a matter of conscience for the individual, if I had them all at once what would I effectively have?
So then why have the Watchtower organization blackened people’s name’s and reputations and excommunicated people?
This is not a benign religion.
Jehovah’s Withness must not have a sound mind… look at what I can read in one of their publications! Very strange…
*** w06 10/1 p. 8 Is the Bible Too Restrictive? ***
During the period that some historians have called the Dark Ages, for example, the Catholic Church in Europe dominated virtually every aspect of people’s life. Anyone who dared to disagree with the church risked torture and even execution. The Protestant churches, which emerged later, also restricted personal freedom. Today, such terms as “Calvinist” or “Puritan” bring to mind not just the followers of certain beliefs but the harsh discipline associated with such groups. Consequently, because the churches were oppressive, people wrongly conclude that the teachings of the Bible must be oppressive.
@Man from the Lions Pit. I was only guessing that maybe some churches don’t use mind control but where to find that “one” church would take a life time to find it.
When I read Ray Franz’s book “In search of Christian Freedom” I think the best thing for anybody who wants to be a Christian is simply to read the Bible but if a person strictly believes in the Hebrew Scriptures and not the Greek Scriptures, you could be brought up to believe that you can stone a child for being a glutton and so on.
You could be brought up to believe that God created you and the earth and he has the right to do what he wants and if He asks you to do something like kill another person for not following the Old Law Covenant, you would do it. That would make you an extreme religion then. The only reason people don’t do it in the Christian religion is because of the Greek scriptures with Jesus saying that Law was replaced by the two commandments to love God and your neighbor so the Greek scriptures offsets the Hebrew Scriptures. That is what makes “Christians” not killers of their own children for gluttony.
The problem is that a lot of people in the world don’t believe the Greek scriptures and Jesus’ sayings of loving neighbor and so on and only go by writings on the order of the Hebrew scriptures which is similar to the Koran. If that is the way you were brought up and could be killed for breaking away from your parent’s religion, you could easily be influenced to kill.
We think in the West that only crazy people would do that, but I think “Christians” are led by very strong emotions when it comes to believing in Jesus by the way they are always posting on Facebook, religious sayings and how much they love Jesus etc. They may not kill anybody next door, but if led by their church will take up arms and fight in armies, just the same as the “extreme” religions. Something comes over them when they read the Bible or listen to preachers and it’s the same kind of devotion that comes over people who read the Koran.
So, any writings like that can influence people’s thinking and when their minds have been taken over by emotions, who knows what kind of acts they will do in the name of God? To me, it’s a form of craziness and Religion/God is what does that to them. Religion has that kind of power but if you look at North Korea, those people are under mind control of the government, just the same.
That feeling that God or Government owns them makes them believe that they have to do what He or the Government asks of them.
That is what happened to me when I started studying with Jehovah’s Witnesses and what made me decide to dedicate myself to it. Until I studied with JW’s, I would never have given my mind over to religion/God but I was very patriotic to the U.S. government and believed in going to war to “defend” our country even if that meant going into another country to “defend” our country and that thinking was also crazy.
There are certain things that make a society moral and that could be summed up in the 10 commandments or the law to love your neighbor as yourself but the first commandment of Jesus was to love God first. So, if you love God first, couldn’t you also think that if God asked you to kill somebody that you would? ‘
When I said the only good thing about Jehovah’s Witnesses is that they wouldn’t join in armies is that if everybody in the world subscribed to that belief, there wouldn’t be any wars.
Jehovah’s Witnesses aren’t pacifists. Jehovah’s Witnesses have always been taught that they have the right to defend themselves if attacked. Awake May 8, 1997 under the Article “Should Christians Be Pacifists?” said this in the last paragraph: “True Christians love peace. They stay completely neutral in the world’s military, political and ethnic conflicts. But, strictly speaking, they are not pacifists. Why? Because they welcome God’s war that will finally enforce his will on earth-a war that will settle the great issue of universal sovereignty and rid the earth of all enemies of peace once and for all.”
We were always taught that JW’s would not be doing any of the killing but it would be Michael and his armies that would do all the killing, but who is to say that in the future with “new light” that JW’s wouldn’t take up arms to start killing? It all depends on how much under mind control they become.
It wasn’t all that long ago that Watchtower ran an article for study that JW’s were to follow orders even if from a human standpoint it didn’t seem reasonable, right????
Has it occurred to anyone else that Jews. Muslims and Christians all revere Abraham as a man of great faith. He proved this by demonstrating that he was willing to perform an act that the vast majority of humans would consider immoral and repugnant, the human sacrifice of his own son, because “god told him to do it”.
The thing that all these religions and their various sects, including JWs, have in common is that they advocate absolute obedience to god regardless of your own moral feelings about what he has asked you to do. “Don’t question, just do it! God must be right.”
If there is a god and he is all-loving and all-wise and if he had a reliable and trustworthy way to communicate his will to humans then that course of action might be praiseworthy but there are far too many ifs for my liking. What happens in practice is that religious people trust their leaders who claim to convey god’s will to their followers. In effect they are saying “Don’t question, just do what [we tell you] god asks you to do.”
If the governing body of Jehovah’s Witnesses decided that doorstep conversions should be replaced by doorstep stabbings next week and misquoted a few well chosen verses of scripture in support (e.g. “I came to bring, not peace but a sword”) I wonder how many would blindly follow the instruction as if it came from Jehovah.
In effect, they have already been prepared for such a thing by suggestions that instructions from Jehovah (i.e. from the governing body) might not always make sense from a human viewpoint but we should follow them anyway. In this respect they are no different from extremist followers of any religious denomination.
I wonder how many of those children in the Awake issue of May 22nd 1994 would still be alive had the Watchtower change its blood fraction policy before they HAD to face their religious martyrdom?
Did, at the time, the Watchtower Society hold a spiritual gun to their and their parents head?
Exactly. My brother in law died just over 5 years ago because of the ban on blood transfusions. My sister’s life has been shattered beyond recognition and she’ll never be the same. She drinks A LOT every single day now. I dropped by her house one day after work and she was so plastered that she couldn’t even stand up and fell over at one point.
@Gary, the answer is yes!
If, Jehovah’s witnesses, that is truthful, which it is, what would happen to me in the local congregation if I espoused that view?
If your answer is “you would no longer be considered a Jehovah’s witness” then you agree with religious intolerance placed upon you.
I have lost my whole family and am completely isolated from them. They are not dead, but I have felt many times that my kids have died as I don’t see them daily.
The fact that Muslim extremists can take away a life in the name of religion and that WT can estrange you from your loved ones has some parallels I would agree.
Kate xx
@anonymous
Thanks for ur replay.Yes every men needs constantly to train their human qualities in order to be a human.As somebody said not all people are humans.
This mental powers & qualities are no possession of all.Even those you think they have it must be in constant remainder do not lose it in life challenging or extreme circumstances when your own life in danger.History is full of such cases when peaceful folks over night became worst than “animals”.I know something about government propaganda and mind control on both sides of the river! I was born and grew up in eastern Europe under strong communist regime fist and if I look back in retrospect and compare I’m able list pros & cons of both! Life is not black & white for sure.And propaganda machine worked & works in full steam constantly here & there nowadays especially there is no escape zone!
@Man from the lions pit. What makes it so hard for some religions like the Muslims and the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Mormons is how difficult it is to break free. As I understand from reading about the Muslim religion, if you are born into it and you break away from it, your life is in danger and you could very well be killed for doing that. I am pretty sure that is the policy, although I know a lot of people will disagree with that and liken it to intolerance of race. It’s like that in the JW religion, even though some will fellowship with disfellowshipped people, they aren’t allowed to talk about doing it on the threat of being disfellowshipped themselves. So, the vast majority of Muslims probably wouldn’t actually kill somebody who disassociates themselves from the religion, still that is their core beliefs. It’s like Catholics. Even though they aren’t supposed to practice birth control, most of them do it anyway and just don’t talk about it.
This morning I had a lively discussion with my husband who normally won’t listen to me at all about anything bad about the Society. I played the Sam Harris tape that Cedars put up and he listened to it. At the end, he said he had only one thing that he disagreed with. It led into a discussion about mind control of the Society and he made a comment like “It all boils down to this: Do you believe that God has a channel that he talks through and that is the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society” and he started talking about it being the Faithful and Discreet slave etc. I let him talk and when he got done, I told him again that the Faithful and discreet slave hadn’t been appointed yet and it won’t happen until the Great Tribulation and he disagreed, so again, I got out the July 15 Watchtower study magazine and pointed him to the first article where it was talking about all the references of the faithful and discreet slave being appointed was for the future. So, I used some information from Winston’s first video on his youtube watchtower examination videos, on how that Watchtower destroyed the 1914 doctrine and for once, he had to admit that he saw something in our magazines that he had never realized before and that was that the “presence” and 2nd coming was the same thing and that article in the July 2013 Watchtower blew the 1914 doctrine out of the water. He didn’t want to believe the first article from the 1954 Watchtower that I showed him because it was “old” but he had to believe the one in the June 15, 1979 Watchtower article entitled “The Dead in Christ Shall Rise First” where it said in paragraph 4, “This official presence begins with his 2nd coming. According to the “sign” that Jesus foretold and also according to certain Bible time measurements, his invisible “presence” or parousia, began in autumn of 1914 C.E.”
@Mary on, I am so sorry for you loss. Hopefully your sister will heal in time.x
Thank goodness for websites like these
@Anonymous :Shunning is active practice also by Amish community also some Mennonites.We know that the practice is derived from the Bible.The purpose was to keep congregation clean of certain practices of unrepentant individuals.However the problem is that JW went an extra mile with this.The bigger problem of the extra mile is that we went wrong way and extra mile.We deliberately stretched this Biblical precedent to unnecessary extend and thus ruining life of many families which is very sad:-(.
This is example of misplace eagerness or zealously.And GB is responsible for this ! Unfortunately looks like there is no will to fix it yet.Will be ? I don’t know…
I was watching a recent documentary which dealt with the military forces of a certain superpower who are always watchful and on alert for “the end”. These personnel perform intense drills regarding preparedness never knowing if test, or real. As a JW kid, I recall we were always preparing mentally for the great tribulation, and with the Sunday lectures and the books (publications, for those hardcore Witnesses who can’t seem to form the term book or magazine (journal? really?)) regarding 1975 preparedness and after its failure that this signified an ominous “any moment”-“sudden destruction” as this was the “peace and security” era. As in the case of these military forces, there is a tremendous amount of MENTAL STRESS and distress requiring mental decompression. JW’s never get to “mentally decompress” because on a cruise ship, on a mountaintop, on a sandy beach, on a speeding train, on a here, or on a there, “I am Jehovah’s Witness; Jehovah’s Witness-I-am (Dr. Seuss, August 12, 1960).” The result has been some persons acting with out logic, at times, and the inability to form logical decisions and choices without consulting an external authority figure. And, akin to the green-eggs-and-ham analogy, the result is an absolute–all or none–style of thought pattern in which there are no “fuzzy areas” between condemnation and rejection or repentance and acceptance.
ref. for further research Jerry Bergman (we’ll leave John Spencer out of it, since so many JW’s find that writer disputable)
@JBob
thanks interesting perspective worthy to think off
@Cedar
now a note for u.About this article.You wrote what u wrote and it’s you right to do so because its your blog.So I respected it.But I think you make more damage to yourself with publishing your opinion about this event.Why I think so?
The reason is that you stated on your web also your slogan is “voice for silent majority” so logically your target audience is also active JW community.So with publicizing your personal subjective opinion on this event I think you make more damage to your reputation and objectives in long term.Sometimes strategically its better to stay silent.I see that some individuals get offensed like Zaza or Rich etc..Rich was apologetic in his comment for Islam.Maybe he is sympathizer or ex Jw who became a Muslim whatever is the case its his right but I think he was respectful in his comment although he wasn’t in agreement with u.You have exclusive right to exclude someone from this forum because its your and u didn’t stated its open source and you have a right for censorship.At same time you have to be aware what is downside of this measures and action.Its not only to be label that you can’t stand the criticism but dawn on the way you may became a victim of your own approach or tendencies.Patterns observable in in those to whom you criticize.The bottom line is that its your right to comment on whatever you wish.Tomorrow you can comment on latest event in island of Socotra and draw parallel with JW.The problem is that you are not political commentator and events like Paris or other has political agenda in it.The event itself as many others are questionable why and who done it.Mainstream media bring one story ,alternative sources has totally different view.What is really true ? This itself make your opinion even more subjective.If I would be you I would exercise more restrain what I will comment on.Hope my humble opinion will be helpful.best wishes
Convincing people of the inconsistencies and flip flops of WT’s claim to be “the Faithful and Discreet slave” is difficult. They want something they can see, an idol, to worship. The WT organization fills that need.
Your husband, like many others, will not even consider the possibility the that WT is lying when they claim to be “the Faithful and Discreet slave.” They NEED that idol to worship.
A youtube video by Mr. Lee devastates WT’s claim to be “the Faithful and Discreet slave.” He uses common sense logic anyone can understand. WT’s confusing details of the doctrine are simply washed away.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekh4wXdKTe4
Ooops, I didn’t realize the URL would embed the video here. Hope that’s not against the rules. Apologies if it is.
@FTobelies
thanks for the link ! I enjoyed it’s well reason perspective!
Religion or ideology should not be given the power to feed extreme behaviour be it aggressive or passive aggressive. For some, the thought that their loved ones should view them as dead or disgraceful deserving of death when they are at their lowest point in life or having mental health issues is a very painful experience which is equivalent to the grieving process of death.
I can say this as a person who has experienced both. I have experienced the pain of losing my daughter in a tragic accident but I also have 2 very close friends whose young daughters where committed to Psychiatric Hospitals for attempted suicide because they were disfellowshipped & felt unworthy & ashamed of living.
Both came from single mother families(widows actually) with no father to defend them. One was df’d because the details had become known & she had to serve as an example. She was raped! She was given alcohol & raped by a boy of a very large prominent jw family with elders & ms’s. He was not even reproved.
It turned out that both girls were suffering from mental health conditions that made them easy targets. They should not have been punished for their problems, they should have been helped! I sat with these mothers many times while they cried & said that they felt as though their child may as well have died & that each day they didn’t know if they would get the dreaded phone call that their child had ended it once & for all.
The mental anguish that they felt was disturbing for me to watch as I could see the same grief stricken eyes that I had when my child died. But the saddest outcome was that they thought that their disfellowshipping in the first place was the right thing to do because the Society said so.
The thing about this video is, it refutes the very basis of WT’s claim to authority. Once you see they have no special authority, they are NOT God’s channel of communication, it’s no longer necessary to grapple with the confusing details of their doctrine. All that mess is washed away.
JWs fail by giving implicit trust to an organization which has no special authority from God. The WT is lying when they claim to have it. When you realize that, the tower collapses before your eyes.
I suppose looking at it scripturally , the identification of the man of lawlessness would require a number of proves, if correct, (1) teach a false parusia (2) claim to sit in the “divine habitation” eg receiving divine insights, & approved position (3) look down on every other object of worship (4) mislead Christ’s sheep into a compromised apostasy.
Apologies if this comment repeats, this is my 6th attempt at posting it.
Religion or ideology should not be given the power to feed extreme behaviour be it aggressive or passive aggressive. For some, the thought that their loved ones should view them as dead or disgraceful deserving of death when they are at their lowest point in life or having mental health issues is a very painful experience which is equivalent to the grieving process of death. I can say this as a person who has experience with both.
I have experienced the pain of losing my daughter in a tragic accident but I also have 2 very close friends whose young daughters where committed to Psychiatric Hospitals for attempted suicide because they were disfellowshipped & felt unworthy & ashamed of living. Both came from single mother families(widows actually) with no father to defend them. One was df’d because the details had become known & she had to serve as an example. She was raped! She was given alcohol & raped by a boy of a very large prominent jw family with elders & ms’s. He was not even reproved.
@Grace
I’m sorry for your daughter !This is biggest nightmare for a parent! Also for your friends lost ! sending u hugs
Sounds like another case for the police that went unreported. I know one woman who was abducted from a parking lot and raped by a stranger not long after she was married. She revealed this years later, and of course she never reported it to the police, or her husband at the time.
So to date, there has been no justice for that crime. But Jesus said all secrets will be revealed on judgement day, and I believe it.
The atheist view of justice seems quite strange to me. Not that I want to start a debate with atheists. I’m just saying what I believe. Atheists can believe whatever they like.
@man from the lions pit. Thank you kindly. Hugs back.
Just a general thought & apologies if it’s off topic.
I am convinced that by asking the right scriptural questions enables the Jehovah’s witness mind to kick in. I believe that this is the most effective method in freeing a captive mind. Ray Franz and the chap who was asked to prove the date 607 are testimony to this approach. We know that criticizing has little effect as the mind is already closed, however by asking questions the mind has to think and the snow flake, hopefully, turns into a snowball. Even members the gb, considering Ray Franz experience, are indoctrinated. Many thanks for your patience;-)
For demonstration purposes,
If the faithful slave has not been appointed over all the master’s belongings yet, and many are called but few chosen, are the many just 8 and do Peter’s words regarding the “judgement of God’s house first” apply to Christendom and not to the spiritual temple?
Apologies for the triple post,
Questions are far more dangerous to the Watchtower Society than facts.
Here’s one you could ask of your indoctrinated family members,
Is it scripturally right to enforce a false teaching on a Christian?
To highlight the indoctrination and the slavery here is a conversation between myself and an elder six months ago. This particular elder is a university lecturer.. .
Do you think it is right for a religion to enforce a falsehood? Before he even thought his answer was, “we must be loyal to Jehovah’s organization”, and I said, isn’t it interesting that Paul in 2thessalonians2 describes how God allows delusions into the congregation to test not their loyalty to the organization but to what is truthful?, before he could answer I said I was in a bit of a hurry and hoped to see him soon. Hopefully somewhere in time , maybe through a crisis of conscience or disagreement with a policy or procedure his subconscious will remind him:-)
I found a good book to review by Margaret Singer called Cults in our Midst. Pretty much sums up the WT.
Interesting comments, but we seem to be drifting off topic. As for the article, Cedars said religion should be taxed like a business and the proceeds used to fund education and job creation.
In the USA, few lawmakers are openly atheists. Separation of chuch and state is cherished, political attacks on Christian faith are rare. Not many politicians seem in favor of taxing churches.
However, the WT has prophesied that governments will attack religion. Perhaps taxing religion is the first wave. But would that bring Islamic intolerance under control? And what about governments run by Islamists, like ISIS?
It’s not clear to me how such an ideal can be realized peacefully.
Found Tobelies,
Just what, in your opinion is “the atheist view of justice”?
You say that my view of justice is “strange”, in what way is my view of justice, as an atheist, “strange”?
Your comments divide us and that is lamentable. I view those with faith with respect and tolerance. What a pity that you do not treat me and other atheists the same.
For the record. I believe in the rule of law, and I want all citizens to be under the same obligation to obey the law. In what way is that “strange”? Does that, in any way, differ from the Christian view of justice?
Please, don’t start judging my view, and cast doubt on my view of justice. It is insulting and does not help any of us be better citizens.
You may not want to debate with atheists, but stating that atheists’ view of justice is “strange” with no explanation of that strangeness demands a debate, or, at the very least, an explanation.
Peace be with you,
Excelsior!
The vast majority of people realise, it’s in all our interests to
to cooperate and find peaceful solutions to divisions that
exist. Society is evolving improvements have been made ,ie,
an African American president, Berlin Wall down, terrorist
Org’s in Ireland neutralised, etc, It’s a slow process and I’m
sure there’ll be more blood shed , and it will take more than a
generation to fix but people power will prevail.
I think though that by focussing attention on the destructive
elements of of the w,t, cult that are used in mind control etc,
can have, and is having an effect in reducing w,t, recruitment
so sapping it’s lifeblood.
Having gotten free from indoctrination I can’t see the point
of bringing w,t, prophecies to bear on world events, or even
Bible qoutes, the book that’s had a major effect on causing
division, with the “My god is superior to your god” psyche,
and I’LL prove it by annihilating you…. Concentrate on areas
where we can make a difference.
A number of posters have already pointed out a number of ways to deal with the problems caused by harmful ideas/beliefs. I would add that we should rip a page from the strategies used by Public Health organizations. If something is potentially bad for you, Public Health organizations will use taxes, warning labels, education, outreach, and other levers to “nudge” the right behaviors. They try to make it clear what bad ideas/actions “costs” us (all of us) and try to pass on the costs for that harmful behavior to the source. And, yes, at times they have made some things illegal but that usually blows up in everyone’s face (e.g. prohibition). I think, at the very least, we need to continue to communicate the costs of actions based on harmful beliefs and ideas and find creative ways to pass on the costs. It may not work for every group but you have to start someplace.
Hey, it has worked to some extent with cigarettes… One can dream…