Guy Pierce has reportedly died of a severe stroke
Guy Pierce has reportedly died of a severe stroke

Multiple sources are reporting that Governing Body member Guy Pierce died yesterday morning, March 18, 2014, of a severe stroke. He was 79.

Pierce is survived by his wife, Penny, with whom he began pioneering in 1982. He also leaves behind five sons who were all Witnesses as of 2008.

As recently as last October Pierce served as chairman at the 129th Annual Meeting, at which the newly revised version of the New World Translation was released.

Noteworthy moments during this meeting included an occasion when he encouraged his audience to twist their bibles to see how durable they were. He also suggested that “new light” might be unveiled at the meeting, although this ultimately proved not to be the case.

Following his early work as a pioneer, Pierce served as a traveling overseer between 1986 and 1997. Thereafter, he and his wife were asked to serve at the United States bethel. Pierce served as a “helper” to the Personnel Committee prior to his appointment to the Governing Body. (see w00 1/1 p.29)

In 2011 Pierce sparked controversy by admitting that the Governing Body were pressing ahead with their ambitious building project for a new World Headquarters in Warwick, upstate New York, without being fully certain of Jehovah’s will in the matter. (see w12 8/15) Watchtower has since commenced building work, with the organization even likening the project to the rebuilding of Jerusalem’s walls by Nehemiah.

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Little is known about Pierce’s individual achievements as a Governing Body member because, unlike the precedent set at Acts 15, Watchtower keeps the minutes of Governing Body meetings top secret – even though the identities of members are widely published.

Pierce will understandably be mourned by those who knew him, especially his widow, children and grandchildren. But it is regrettable that ultimately his tenure as a Governing Body member was a wasted opportunity to bring about urgently needed reform.

Pierce leaves behind an organization riddled with secrecy and deception in which crimes against children are covered up and Witnesses who dare to speak out are persecuted through the cruel practice of shunning.

 

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***UPDATE***

The following announcement has now been made on the JW.org website

“Guy H. Pierce, a member of the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses at their world headquarters in Brooklyn, New York, died on Tuesday, March 18. He was 79 years of age.

In addition to his wife, Penny, Mr. Pierce is survived by his six children, several grandchildren, and great-grandchildren. He is also fondly remembered by Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world whom he regarded as family.

In a statement, his fellow members of the Governing Body commented: ‘Our memories of his courageous and faithful earthly life course will continue to strengthen us for years to come.'”

241 thoughts on “Governing Body member Guy Pierce dies of ‘massive stroke’

  • March 21, 2014 at 9:04 pm
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    Holy Conolli and Fading Brother, I believe Amy is not here to find truth. I suggest we not take the bait, ignore her, and she will go away. It’s too bad we don’t have a chat room, or someplace to pm as it seems like we are all at home on a Friday night…with no one to talk to but an Amy person who is wasting our time.

    That forum has a pm feature. I’m just sayin’

  • March 21, 2014 at 9:24 pm
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    Don’t feel foolish. We’ve all been caught by Amys before. We feel like we can make a difference, and so we try. They are just time wasters. We’ll figure it out one day.

  • March 21, 2014 at 9:53 pm
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    Fading Bro

    I think Amy is just messing around and seeing if she can stir things up a little? “She” may not even be a JW currently? Who knows but it really doesn’t matter if she is or not. She called you “faithless” ? What is all that about? I certainly have Faith I always have even before I was a JW. I was raised Catholic and I had faith in God as a child but when I became A JW we were taught have FAITH in the organization first as they are the way to Jehovah. After we realized that is not true how can Amy say you are faithless? What should we have faith in? The failed prophecies of the WT? The division they cause in families, the no hope they give for the young ones,Yes, we have little or no faith in the WT org due to its actions and controlling and harsh ways and more so from its predictions and prophecy that have NEVER , EVER come true? Why would we put faith in that kind of record? Not one thing they have said has come true out of thousands of things and prediction’s. So it is true we are faithless in men and people who claim a direct hotline to the Creator of the Universe.

  • March 21, 2014 at 10:52 pm
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    Amy is in every sense a typical ‘true believer’, unwilling even when direct evidence is presented to admit she is mistaken. Typical also her most common resort to name calling when being confronted with uncomfortable facts about her beloved ‘organization’.

    In some ways you cannot blame her for the secrecy and deceptive practices of her religious leaders. She grasps that the ‘dissfellowshiping’ annoucements at the end of the service meetings no longer include the word dissfellowshiping, and thus concludes (wrongly) that that word no longer is in vouge.

    Maybe someday she will understand that instead of Jesus and Jehovah calling the shots, now a whold cadre of attorney’s are working to protect this organization from stepping on it’s own toes.

    For Amy and all other ‘under informed’ jw here is a direcect quote from the ultra secret elders manual Shepherd the Flock of God published in 2010 and is today the ultimate guide in all matters elders handle in each congregation:

    Matters Related to
    Disfellowshipped and
    Disassociated Ones’

    Make yearly visits on those who qualify
    Permit them to obtain personal literature at the
    Kingdom Hall
    Assist those having undue association with disfellowshipped
    or disassociated relatives
    1. Once a year the body of elders reviews a list of
    those in the congregation territory who are disfellowshipped
    or disassociated. They will call on each one
    they select In order to see if he wants to re turn.
    (■w91 4/IS pp. 22-23) Calls should not be made on
    those who are active apostates, on those who are
    trying to lead others into sin, or on those who have
    made it known that they want nothing to do with
    God’s people. The body will assign two elders to
    make each call, preferably elders familiar with the
    case. During a brief visit, the elders may kindly explain
    what the individual can do to return. In some
    cases there may be good reason for a follow-up visit
    They will report the results to the Congregation Service
    Committee, and the body will be informed at
    the next meeting of the elders.
    2. If the elders learn that a disfellowshipped
    or disassociated person has moved, they should
    not send his Congregation’s Publisher Record (S-21)
    cards or the confidential file to the congregation
    where he lives or attends meetings. Since he cannot
    share in the ministry, the congregation that took disfellowshipping
    action or acknowledged the disasso-

    So Amy if this does not prove the matter for you nothing will.

  • March 22, 2014 at 12:51 am
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    Danman,
    Great quote. You are right Amy is an example of someone who is not allowed to think for themselves. The sad thing is, who can she now talk to about the evidence? If she speaks to the elders and asks them, they will strongly counsel her. If she starts to look at the evidence, through her own research, she will feel dissonance. This is normal. It passes. Many have been there before. Freedom of thought, feels so good. So many are flooding out now, because the WT cannot isolate the evidence.
    As for your comment Amy, that the organisation has other publications, you are right. Some publications such as the Truth book (which I believe to this day had the largest number of worldwide printed copies of any WT publication) went out of favour because it was seen as compassionate, not hardline and hateful as so much of the material tends to be. It was also supposed to have been written by an inspired GB member who, was later df’d, for eating a meal with his boss. The GB then had to cover their tracks by maligning and name calling. You have been taught well.

    • March 22, 2014 at 1:12 am
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      Quite a while ago I was talking with a JW who was suggesting me a publication just to get “up to speed” with the WT teachings. Before he could mention the book, relying on my many years’ old memories, I jumped in “oh, I know the Truth book”. He gave me a look – there was such an unease, no he said, it’s called “What does Bible really teach” or something like that.

      I later on understood the reason for that awkward feeling … The Truth book is nowhere to be found anymore. The spiritual food went beyond its expiry date and no longer safe for consumption …

      I also would like to say, it’s so interesting to read the comments from indoctrinated JW’s. Don’t you feel they ALL sound as if they’re coming from the same individual ? They are so similar that it’s hardly believable …

      One day those threads will be used in universities as case study about mind control related subjects …

  • March 22, 2014 at 1:22 am
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    JB
    Yes, the good old truth book!

    “One day those threads will be used in universities as case study about mind control related subjects …”

    I suspect this is already happening…..

    • March 22, 2014 at 1:25 am
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      Yes, I agree, it’s probably already the case.

  • March 22, 2014 at 2:15 am
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    Amy,
    What is your “physical” family background?

    “Every person we meet in our ministry is an individual and has his or her own background and problems. (2 Chronicles 6:29)” (See paragraph 5)!

    Paragraph 8 says “We preach to all sorts of individuals. In the past few years, over 60 experiences have been published in the Watchtower series “The Bible Changes Lives.” These articles talk about people who used to be thieves, drunkards, gang members, or drug addicts. Others were politicians, religious leaders, or individuals who were only interested in their careers. Some were very immoral. But all of them heard the good news, accepted a Bible study, made changes in their lives, and came into the truth. So we should not think that people like these will never accept the Kingdom message.”

    WHO DID YOU USED TO BE… I mean which category do you fall in?
    It is interesting to see how history repeats itself!!!
    Read 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/1-corinthians/6/#v46006009-v46006011) you will understand why you have a “blessed life with a loving blood and spiritual family”!

    “you have been washed clean;+ you have been sanctified;+ you have been declared righteous+ in the [BLOOD] of the Lord Jesus Christ”

  • March 22, 2014 at 2:55 am
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    Fading Brother,

    Too many lies,

    On one hand they say:
    “Jesus taught that none of his disciples should try to be more prominent than any other. “If anyone wants to be first,” Jesus said, “he must be last of all and minister of all.” (Mark 9:35) Shortly before his death, Jesus gave this clear directive to his followers: “Do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your teacher, whereas all you are brothers. Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One. Neither be called ‘leaders,’ for your Leader is one, the Christ.” (Matthew 23:1, 8-10) Do you feel that the popes have upheld the teachings of Peter and Christ?” (w11 8/1 p. 26 )

    On the other hand, they say:

    “Shocking as it is, even some who have been prominent in Jehovah’s organization have succumbed to immoral practices, including homosexuality, wife swapping, and child molesting. It is to be noted, also, that during the past year, 36,638 individuals had to be disfellowshipped from the Christian congregation, the greater number of them for practicing immorality. Jehovah’s organization must be kept clean! (w86 1/1 p. 13 par. 12)!!

    Did you SEE that?
    “Jesus taught that none of his disciples should try to be more prominent than any other…” VS “some who have been prominent in Jehovah’s organization have succumbed to immoral practices…”

  • March 22, 2014 at 4:06 am
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    Hi Amy

    I’m one of Jehovah’s Witnesses who believes Jesus is my personal Savior. I’ve never been d/f. And was baptized before they changed the command of Jesus to be baptized into ‘the spiritual organisation’. Matt28:18-20. June 1, 1985 Watchtower.

    If they took it upon them selves to d/f me. Than the d/f is meaningless, to them, and to them only am I no longer known as one. But that doesn’t stop me from being one, everyone I talk too knows I’m a Jehovah’s Witnesses, However, because Jesus said He was The Way and the Truth and The Life Jn14 : 6

    Many of us of the same belief are taking a stand for the truth, and drawing attention to the errors of WTS. Its because of those errors and hurtful practices that many have be lead away and pushed away to other forms of belief’s.

    If you truly are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses are you willing to face up to those errors as discussed on this site and similar? Take a good look at jwfacts.com under the heading of Core Concepts. Perhaps your opinion of those you feel are spruiking lies etc. on this site might change.

    May you have peace
    Duds

  • March 22, 2014 at 4:15 am
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    Heather one thing we have learn’t after coming out of this religion is not to judge our fellow man, if we sit here and be critical, then we are just like them. Although my dad is an elder, I am sure he has ruined many lives but I still love him, I have faded from the religion so that they could not DF me, and still see my family every week, my family knows how I think but as long as I do not speak to another JW there is nothing the religion can do to me. I love my family very much, just as much as you love yours. So when you are at your grandfather’s memorial, hold your head up high, be kind and loving and support your family and have compassion for them, they will need your strength. You have more strength than them, because your are living a truthful and real life, they are living for a future time and do not know what real life is, and they do not even think they are deserving god’s spirit because they are only the great crowd. May God be with you and your family in this sad time.

  • March 22, 2014 at 4:56 am
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    IACG – I had occasion to offload at someone regarding remarks to you made here and on Meliti’s site. Hope I didna’ offend you??

  • March 22, 2014 at 7:11 am
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    Someone (she was definitely female) made a good point that it may be that so-called apostates are really not apostates but only people that are actually only some people that are re-cycling food that was once issued by the FDS as ‘food at the proper time’ but that has now grown stale. The food/idea that Christs 2nd invisible presence of 1874 had grown stale by c.1943. The common senses of sight and smell might be able to tell one when food has passed its sell-by date, but how is one to tell when spiritual food is not fit to be consumed. The ‘this generation idea/food’ clearly passed its own ‘best by’ date in 1995, but what now for the ‘overlapping -genarations’? It’s become almost compulsory for food providers to put ‘sell-by’ dates on its products, certainly this should be true also of those manufacturers who are issuing spiritual food issued by the one true God. I seem to remember reading in scripture that even manna from heaven had a well recognised proper ‘sell-by’ date provided by its supplier. GB take note.

  • March 22, 2014 at 8:54 am
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    When one of the GB dies it always makes you think, if you are awake, about the inevitability of replacements. They have for now put in place a “stop gap” with the “overlapping generations” teaching but that will one day run out. Will they just overlap again? I don’t think so. I think that the time is coming that the whole time doctrine must be overhauled and brought up to date. I for one hope it’s not, but believe it will be. They have done it before. (1799 & 1879 to 1914) I think it will be a gradual process that may take a decade or more and could already be in the works. I don’t know these are just my thoughts but I believe it is a logical progression. Like I said: I hope it doesn’t happen because the farther we get from the beginning of the end happening in 1914 hopefully more will wake up. My estranged wife said when I asked her what happens when 2014 comes and goes with no Armageddon? she said: “Well we’ll just have to wait and see.”
    And so we shall.

  • March 22, 2014 at 1:39 pm
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    White Star line ship the Titanic sank 102 years ago in 1912.
    God himself they said could not sink her.

    I wonder if Jehovah servants are really aware of what size of ship may be about to go down this year??

  • March 22, 2014 at 2:57 pm
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    I am hesitant to comment further on this post, but I would just like to say how heartwarming I found Tiger’s sincere comment and I would like to clarify my previous comment.

    Several years after I was dfd there was a mass exodus from my old congregation. This was due partly to a known paedophile moving into the congregation and the instruction from the society that this knowledge was not to be passed on to the R&F members of the cong. On top of this came the UN scandal, along with the donation of a library of old JW literature.

    As a result, several zealous Elders and their families were amongst those who left.

    One Elder was filled with remorse for not only bringing ones into an Organisation based on falsehoods, but also for having some responsibility in influencing one family to the detriment of their family life. Hence he visited that family to offer his humblest apologies and to let them know that what he had done had been with the best of intentions based directly on the instructions of the Watchtower which he had without question viewed as being Jehovah’s command.

    An ex-Sister who left was horrified when she realised the TTATT and made haste to visit all her bible studies to inform them of this and say sorry for misleading them.

    I met another of the former Elders and his wife shortly after the exodus. They embraced me and the ex-sister nearly cried as she apologised for ignoring me in the street before.

    These ex-brothers and sisters were heartfelt and sincere in their beliefs, (maybe Guy Pierce was too?) but when they were faced with the reality behind the Org, they could not continue living (and therefore condoning) a lie.

    As far as I am aware, unbeknownst officially to the rest of the cong, the paedophile remained amongst them. This was the point that I was making in my previous comment. There are many other examples where ones have remained closeted within the cong despite committing and continuing to commit “sins” far greater than others have been disfellowshipped for.

    Disfellowshipping and shunning does not necessarily keep the congregation clean. IMO it is a tool to be used as a deterrent to stop people from leaving the Org.

    Thank you Cedars for your hard work on this website.

  • March 22, 2014 at 5:19 pm
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    Tiger – your comments were appreciated.
    Before I began to have doubts about the truthfulness of the WT org., I was conducting two home bible studies and had recently encouraged someone who was sitting on the fence to make a move. She has since got baptised.
    After research on 607, 1914 and the way the Society had altered historical dates to fit in with their doctrines (not the Bible). I could not conscientiously continue with my studies and told them that after my discoveries I could not teach them anything that I now felt was deceitful. One of the studies appreciated my comments and we have remained good friends, the other decided she would like to continue her study and someone else is now taking it. When the facts are shown to people it is their decision as to what action they take. Each one must carry his own load. We must not feel guilty for what we may have, in all honest heartedness, taught others. When the WT finally collapses, which it undoubtedly will, perhaps ones will realise that there are some folks who they can turn to tell them the real truth.

  • March 23, 2014 at 5:03 am
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    Fading Brother,

    so many inconsistencies and hypocrisies… did you know they used to call others “GOATS”? But contrast the two point below and see.

    1) “Jesus also spoke of goatlike people at the world’s end who go into “the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels,” namely, “everlasting cutting-off.” (Matthew 25:41, 46) No resurrection for these! (re chap. 41 p. 297 par. 8)”

    The way people react to our preaching will be a basis for judgment […] We understand from God’s Word that those who are judged as “goats” will go “into everlasting cutting-off […]” (w12 3/15 p. 11 par. 8; http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/l/r1/lp-e?q=w12+3%2F15+p.+11+par.+8)

    2) “In review, what have we learned? In the beginning of this article, we raised three “when” questions. We first considered that the great tribulation did not begin in 1914 but will start when the United Nations attacks Babylon the Great. Then, we reviewed why Jesus’ judgment of the sheep and the goats did not begin in 1914 but will occur during the great tribulation” (w13 7/15 p. 8 par. 19; http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/l/r1/lp-e?q=w13+7%2F15+p.+8+par.+19)!!

    Imagine calling people “goats” YESTERDAY and say TODAY, no, we will call them “goats” again TOMORROW!!!

    What inconsistencies!! Wat hypocrisies!!!

  • March 23, 2014 at 8:26 am
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    So it seems that Guy was a fellow who had a sense of humour. Perhaps he would appreciate this little ditty. Sing to the tune of Widecombe Fair:
    Guy Pierce, Guy Pierce, he suddenly died,
    All along, out along, down a long lee,
    They sat down in Bethel and cried and they cried,
    With Geoffrey Jackson, Mark Sanderson, David Splane, Sammy Herd, Stevie Lett, Gerrit Losch, and Old Uncle Tony Morris and all, Old Uncle Tony Morris and all.
    Guy Pierce, Guy Pierce oh where have you gone?
    All along, out along, down a long lee,
    Have you made it to heaven to sit on your throne, with
    Chorus: Ted Jaracz, John Barr, Carey Barber, Dan Sydlik, Bertie Schroeder, Milton Henschel, Nathan Knorr, Freddy Franz, Joe Rutherford, Old Charlie T. Russell and all, Old Charlie T. Russell and all.
    Your brothers in Bethel now offer a prayer,
    All along, down along, out a long lee,
    They think you’re in heaven, but you’re really down there
    Chorus: With, etc.
    But this isn’t the end of this shocking affair,
    All along, out along, down along lee,
    Nor though he be dead of his horrid career,
    Chorus: With, etc.
    When the wind whistles cold on the Watch Tower at night,
    All long, down along, out along lee,
    Guy Pierce’ apparition doth appear ghastly white,
    Chorus: With, etc.
    And all the long night be heard skirling and groans,
    All along, out along, down along lee,
    From Guy Pierce, his cronies and their rattling bones!
    Chorus: With, etc.
    Cedars – I do hope that this is not disrespectful to the old chap, but I just felt we needed a little humour out there to counter all the doom and gloom!

  • March 23, 2014 at 7:56 pm
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    Bad Penny, I don’t know the song, but if you sing a little bit of it for us, I may recognize it. BTW, which side of the ocean are you on? “Old chap” is not something we Southerners normally say in the USA. (I love your accent!!!)

    JB or A searcher for truth, I have re-thought my narrow-minded thinking about the book you mention, Urantia book.

    I opened up my mind and did research on Jehovah’s Witnesses, reading from many different sources, some shocking at first, before I came up with my own truth.

    How can it possibly harm me to read a book? That is exactly what I have recommended to those who are trying to find the truth. What a hypocrite I am! I am behaving just like the Jehovah’s Witnesses who are afraid to do any research on their own. If my faith cannot stand up to reading a book, then something is wrong with my faith.

    I wonder why you didn’t try that argument on me?

    I have d/l an mp3 copy of the book. But listening to a synthesized voice is not conducive to understanding it. It kind of lulls me into disinterest and non-comprehension. Is there any place you know of where I can d/l or read the book for free?

    • March 23, 2014 at 11:03 pm
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      Hi, Imacountrygirl,
      here is a link to the Urantia foundation and also to the book on-line as well as the recordings in a normal human voice, well it was when I had downloaded the audio version of the book anyway. http://www.urantia.org/urantia-book

    • March 23, 2014 at 11:22 pm
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      Imacountrygirl, I’m so sorry I missed quite some parts on the thread, now that I was reading your comment, I just got back to the previous one.

      I think exactly the same as you do ! Indeed, how harmful can it be reading a book or having a conversation ? I completely agree that the reasonable elements will always make their way towards our acceptance. I often think that if someone doesn’t want you to listen to different arguments, it’s because they don’t trust their arguments themselves. Otherwise why would they be so particular about it ?

      People often say God’s ways are hard to comprehend. Why does it have to be so ? Is it hard to comprehend, or is it made so, in a way to draw profit controlling fellow human beings, by their most important values ? There is no religion which didn’t involve mechanisms where people controls others.

      Actually I never exclude the Bible being God’s Word, however, this difficulty to fully understand it, makes me doubt whether there wasn’t issues with it, on purpose for making it difficult to understand. Would God be so clumsy or would he have bad intentions to guide us so poorly ? Or maybe, he gave us everything we need to understand our lives and the rest depends on us ? I tend to think this is the case.

      Another point that really disturbs me that quite some people i know who don’t rely on the Bible are much more tolerant and human than the ones that swear by it. All this “organized” approach around it, and the religions don’t seem to reach the logical targets. IF we assume that the acceptance of God is the right thing to do, they are the biggest obstacle to it.

      I had a look into the Urantia Book. It certainly doesn’t leave me indifferent to it. Before I really get into it, I searched about it on the internet and what is being said about this book is quite interesting as well. Then I read a small section of it. What strucks me is that what is written on particular subjects, such as Jesus’ birth, was something I was thinking as well. If you come across a term like the “Thinking Adjuster”, it’s something I was thinking about too. Actually I have been reading some material about “babies born good” and what the scientists say about it. Quite the same thing actually.

      The issue about Urantia Book is, it’s maybe a big hoax or maybe not, but what really gives you an opinion is simply reading the material. Comparing to the Bible, some things are much more intuitive indeed. Though this still doesn’t have to mean the Bible has no value. I’m convinced it has.

      For my part, I dont think I’ll ever have complete trust to anything that claims the truth. None of them, by itself, will be sufficient for me to make up my mind about a particular topic.

      If you’d like to have a look, I think you can download it from http://www.urantia.org.

      On download section there are many different formats available, I used the pdf version. If you have any issue finding it, don’t hesitate to let me know.

      Imacountrygirl, one point I wanted to add – when you said, what can be wrong reading a book ? I happen to think about a similar point on disfellowshipping and shunning.

      They say it’s to keep the congregation clean … OK but, what wrong do you risk if you are talking to a sinner ? If it’s really about avoiding risks, the fact that the “sinner” was a JW before or not doesn’t make it any different. If the bad influence is an issue, the risk is exactly the same.

      This is why the “keeping the congregation clean” argument doesn’t make any sense at all and it’s quite obvious why it was “designed”. Or if it’s so important, how about keeping the congregation clean from the paedophiles ?

      I had these thoughts, just wanted to add this with the same occasion to my reply.

      All the best sister !

  • March 24, 2014 at 12:50 am
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    This is a true story. Sad, but true.

    When I first d/l mp3 format of the book, there were multiple files, which I d/l all of them. Then I discovered that aliens were reading the book out loud.

    When I went to the site A searcher for truth left, there were 24 different files. I always think I’m so clever, (obviously delusional thinking) I needn’t bother with instructions. I’ll just wing it, which usually works.

    I d/l all 24 files thinking…….I don’t know, “this is going to be one BIG BOOK and may take a good portion of the years I have left to read it”. Peripherally, I saw they all ended with zip.

    As I finished unzipping every single last one of them, I saw I had an email. As I read your comment, it occured to me I was supposed to pick ONE of the 24 formats, like say the PDF version. Or maybe the TXT version. Perhaps even the ODT version.

    No real damage done however. Just maybe 20/30 minutes of my life I’ll never get back. This is not one of my proudest moments in life. But it was good for the best laugh I’d had all day.

    This is a cautionary tale to maybe slow down and notice the simple things in life. Like maybe the first bullet point of the instructions.

    I agree with you about keeping the congregation clean. It’s not just the d/f or d/a ones to avoid, it’s also the “weak ones”. Like maybe associating with a weak one will somehow sap some of your spiritual strength.

    You make some very valid points and your reasoning appeals to me.

    Thank you both.

    If nobody hears from me in the next 30 days, please send a rescue party….to the urantia web site.

    • March 24, 2014 at 9:15 am
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      Imacountrygirl, the download page is indeed a little confusing, you’re not the only one, I also got confused at first.

  • March 24, 2014 at 3:55 am
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    To: Imacountrygirl
    I am too but over in jolly ‘olde England’. The song can be found on Google, just type in Widecombe Fair. Song and lyrics are available, along with a delightful picture of seven men on a gray horse! Could be the GB, hee, hee!
    I’m glad you enjoyed my rendition of it.

  • March 24, 2014 at 5:05 am
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    Does anyone know anything about that Gay Piece’s mental health? The Watchtower from w11 8/15 p. 22 says “A number of factors—including past religious beliefs or even mental or emotional imbalance—might cause some to assume mistakenly that they have the heavenly calling.”

    What about his body, RESURRECTED? This reminds me what is written in the other Children’s book “my story”:
    “Do you know what happened to Jesus’ body? God caused it to disappear” (my story 102)!

    Please, Watch the GUY PIERCE’s body to prevent God to caused it to disappear!! (Matthew 27:64) . . .Therefore, command that the grave be made secure until the third day, so that his disciples may not come and steal him and say to the people, ‘He was raised up from the dead!’ Then this last deception will be worse than the first.. . .

  • March 24, 2014 at 5:08 am
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    Do you not realize Jehovah takes care of his people’s necessities. Name one JW who gos without Food/shelter/clothing.

    Don’t ponder too hard over this.

    • March 24, 2014 at 2:55 pm
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      According to this logic, does this mean that the resident of Liechtenstein are also blessed ? Haven’t seen any of them without food or shelter.

      I’m not trying to make fun about ideas that are actually important to me. It’s actually quite a serious point.

      What happened to the brothers and sisters in Malawi ?

    • March 24, 2014 at 3:37 pm
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      T Tyrone Jones

      I can name several that were hungry in my Congregation
      and others I knew. Honestly I can. However there wer sop many on food stamps and Sec 8 housing that it seems the government took care fo them or should we say the TAX PAYER. Honestly, the cong I was with had at least 1/3 of the publishers on food stamps and gov housing. Yet isn’t the Government supposed to be from Satan and ruled by Satan? Even though they were not working and collecting from the dole they would still go out in service and then to lunch after at a local eatery? It always bugged me bc I felt, how could they stay home and not work and not even GO LOOKING for a Job but go out in Field Service an collect TAX payer money from Satan’s system?

      Now if you ask me about the Mormons, I will say yes, they do not go hungry nor have I seen an unemployed Mormon on food stamps or GOV housing. They do take care of their own. I am not nor have ever been a Mormon but since they believe in Higher Education and their young folks go to college and learn something they have a very high percentage of educated and professional people in their religion. I saw a independent study that showed the JW’s are amongst the lowest educated religions in USA. I am not making this stuff up.

  • March 24, 2014 at 8:00 am
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    they are good people,you people complain too much

    • March 24, 2014 at 9:11 am
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      Thank you for your detailed, convincing and informative comment.

  • March 24, 2014 at 4:33 pm
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    Just talking to myself over in this corner here.

    So it’s now 1924 and I’m out here studying with some Bible Students who tell me that the end of the world is only one year away. Having learned that Jesus appointed and approved them as his witnesses in 1918-1918 and having been shown photographs of the brothers celebrating Christmas together and each others birthdays clearly Jesus was clearly OK with these practices.

    Perhaps also with them celebrating both his Death on the cross and his Resurrection together as a fellowship a few days later.
    I wonder what Jesus view may have been of them also celebrating Thanksgiving Day in the good old US of A.

    Of course being over 100 years of age this year I forget so many things.
    – lol smiley face.

  • March 24, 2014 at 9:13 pm
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    [lengthy off-topic comment removed, see posting guidelines]

  • March 24, 2014 at 11:26 pm
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    Fading Brother, That must have been a hard thing to go through, hungry and facing homelessness. I can still feel your pain, even now. No matter how old we get, I don’t think anybody wants to end up hungry, homeless; feeling abandoned and alone. Isn’t it grand that we are now free to express love and caring for one another…and this time, really mean it. No conditions attached. That is the kind of love Jesus wants us to show to all of mankind.

    It’s interesting that your d/f relative was the one who took you in. For most of us on here, our JW families and friends would not even give us the time of day. What a testament to Christ-like behavior, not empty words.

    I know it wasn’t much, but that $20.00 might have been all the c/o had. It was kind of him to give you money, so his heart was in the right place.

    No body ever gets the life they thought they would. It takes difficulties and hardships to give us the ability to show real empathy and love to others. Those adversities reveal the strength of our own character.

    Fading Brother, I for one am glad you put your anchor down on this shore. I mean site.

  • March 25, 2014 at 12:35 am
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    If you want to make a complaint about how JWsurvey is run, you have our email address.

    Again, the posting guidelines are there to make this website safe, enjoyable and relevant for everyone – including you.

  • March 25, 2014 at 12:38 am
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    Fair enough. You leaving because you don’t agree with our posting guidelines makes more sense than breaking them and then complaining when they are enforced.

    I wish you well on your journey.

  • March 25, 2014 at 9:56 am
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    I think there is a middle ground a way to understand all the comments you may not have appreciated along with your own feelings. Reading of the terrible personal trauma this organization has brought to the lives of many has been one of the saddest things I’ve done. To be told continually that to be righteous you must shun, break up your family, forget your educational plans, never read non WT material, allow loved ones to die, think or question comes at a huge cost and leaves broken human beings in the dust. Your grandfather pushed those ideas, can you not expect hurt and disappointment to be connected to his name? A family member is like a defense attorney, see no evil, hear no…. and its great that it works that way, pure unconditional love. We need a safe harbor. I’m sure all are sympathetic to your own feelings, while correctly placing responsibility for the error they were taught at the source.

  • March 25, 2014 at 12:33 pm
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    You are a very well spoken and healthy individual, I am sorry for my knee jerk reaction to be a bit defensive. I have never been a JW but the stories I’ve read are so awful yet unique to this faith. People are trying so hard to measure up to the WT expectations a misstep here or there and they lose their family. I know I get a little too sensitive, when I read of people in peril anywhere I feel crushed to know what they are going thru. It’s terrible that anyone would shut you out when you had every right to express your regret and sadness.

  • March 25, 2014 at 4:14 pm
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    What a bunch of negative and frustrated followers of the immoral Cedars and Jeni. They think they are hurt. What a pitiable losers!

    • March 25, 2014 at 4:33 pm
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      To read you, I got an impression that Jesus came back on earth … You sound so much like him …

      I’m joking (just in case …)

    • March 25, 2014 at 5:30 pm
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      the Watchtower is Immoral! Cedars does not cover up Pedophilia. Cedars is not oppressive. Jeff, you seem to be a follower of the immoral and annoying Watchtower Society. Continue beating on doors and changing your rules and understanding of scriptures to fit what the GOVERNING Body tells you.

    • March 26, 2014 at 12:53 am
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      You forgot John Hoyle. Cedars, Jeni, and John Hoyle.

      And as to “immoral” – you support, promote, defend and worship an organization that shelters pedophiles, kills thousands over disagreements with medical treatments, and splits up families if certain ones no longer recognize its authority.

      If you believe all of that’s moral, then I’m proud to be immoral.

  • March 26, 2014 at 3:50 pm
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    I personally know of a couple of elders who are on the governments dole. And get this… They run self storage units are paid a decent salary and provided with FREE housing on site. So, when they apply for food stamps and Medicaid the free housing isn’t considered part of their income. Well known within the congregation and no one seems to have a problem with this. Even heard a few “have more babies comments” I am thankful every day that I know the TATT. They aren’t as “special and separate” as they claim to be. Just judgemental and hypocritical.

  • March 27, 2014 at 12:06 am
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    This purports to be the text of Guy Pierce’s obituary…

    “Guy Pierce was born into a large Mormon family. His mother and father were Jack Mormons, sympathetic to the Mormon faith but not very active. After World War ll, his parents moved from Utah to California, where Guy was born on November 6, 1934. When he was eight years old, his grandmother wanted three of her grandchildren to be baptized in the Mormon Church. But Guy chose to “disappear” that day because he thought that all religion, especially Mormonism, was nonsense. During the summer months, Guy stayed with his relatives in Provo, Utah. During one visit when he was about 17, he heard the truth for the first time. His uncle had allowed two special pioneers to park their trailer on his property. Some of Guy’s cousins were studying with theWitnesses, and Guy listened in. He knew it was the truth when he first heard it, but being young, he did not immediately do anything about it. A few years later, he decided to walk into a Kingdom Hall, where he asked for a study. From that time on, he never looked back. He was baptized in 1955. There was family opposition from all sides. They called him the black sheep of the family. Guy replied: “You have the right animal, and I dont care what color it is.” He persisted in sharing the truth with his family. One day he decided to use a different tactic. He asked his relatives to give him a reason to believe in Mormonism, which they could not do. Guy’s mother and one of his sisters eventually came into the truth. Guy married a woman who had two children, whom he adopted, and together they had two more children. They were divorced after some of the older children left home. In 1977 he married Penny, who was a single mother with two children of her own. ln his years of raising a family Guy experienced a divorce, raised his adopted children, his own children, and his stepchildren.

    Guy wove the truth into everything. Once, while he and his son were fixing the family car, Guy said: “This car would run like a clock if we could just get it lined up with Jehovah’s laws.” Later, Guy would tell traveling brothers who felt that they were busy that he had never been busier than he was when he was raising a family working full-time, and also caring for the congregation. Still, he found time to pioneer whenever he could. He never made a decision without considering how it would affect his worship. Because of his fine example, many others in his family entered the full-time service and did relief work. ln 1982, with only one son left at home, Guy and Penny decided to regular pioneer again. ln 1986, Guy was invited to do circuit work. ln 1997, Guy and Penny were invited to Bethel, where one of their sons was already serving. ln 1998, Guy was appointed to be a helper to the Personnel Committee, and he was appointed to the Governing Body in 1999.

    We remember Guy for his infectious warm smile, his twinkling blue eyes, his mischievous look, his constant effort to convey the truth accurately, and his zeal and love for Jehovah. Penny will treasure the many years that they read the Bible and theocratic publications together every morning for 45 minutes before their day began. Now Guy has been given a more glorious assignment, one where he can serve without imperfection or limitations in energy. He can be in the presence of his great God, Jehovah, and be with his brothers, the 144,000. As you remember Guy and his happy life in Jehovah’s service, please close your eyes for a moment and reflect on all the future blessings that Jehovah has in store for everyone who serves Him, whether in heaven or on earth.”

  • March 27, 2014 at 12:29 pm
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    I am a former Witness and I am grateful for what I learned from the Bible, but I cannot accept that rather than deal with mental illness and abuse those who suffered from the abuse caused by narcissists and other mental illness, we were expected to keep quiet and suffer in silence. If as a male you needed support you could be sure you would not get any. My ex-wife molested my sons, poisoned me and had sex with a student in her class as a middle school teacher and the elders invited me to SHUT UP or stay home because the Kingdom Hall was no place to bring personal grievances. I was accused and abused in four different congregations because I was trying to get support to protect my sons, one elders wife even took it upon her self to contact all the parents in the congregation that “I” was a child abuser after she demanded to know my story and I told her the truth. Another “sister” accused me of stalking her when I had no interest in her whatsoever and I was barred from “serving the congregation” without any questions being asked of me.

    I was also threatened with disfellowshipping because I was using a natural (non-medical) cancer treatment. Because the elders did not understand how it worked I was NOT to use it. They refused to research or ask questions.

    NONETHELESS we can only do what is best for US as individuals and not judge across the board.

  • March 27, 2014 at 1:11 pm
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    Mitch, What you are describing defies logic and reasoning. The elders may know their Bibles, but they do not know how to handle child abuse. Except how to cover it up.

    What happened to you and your sons is tragic and should never happen to anyone.

    I believe it is neglegent and irresponsible of the Governing Body to have such a poor understanding and record of handling child abuse.

    Even with the best of professional help, some people never recover from being abused as a helpless child. How much worse it is for a child who gets no love, help and support from their own congregation. It makes their struggle much more difficult to over-come.

    You and your children are much better off not being part of an organization that takes no responsibility for the abuse that is inflicted on far too many innocent victims.

    There are many sites on here that offer support and fellowship to victims of abuse. One comes to my mind, it’s called Silent Lambs. http://www.silentlambs.org/index.cfm Many on there tell their personal story of child abuse. I don’t know the ages of your sons, but it may be helpul for them to write their own story if they are old enough.

    Talking about your abuse is a big part of the healing process, as I have learned for myself. I hope your sons have someone they can talk to. Sometimes it’s easier to talk to a stranger than to your own family.

    It’s obvious that your ex-wife has mental issues of her own. I know you have had a very hard struggle and it sounds like you are doing the best you can to take care of your sons needs. I wish for you and your sons much Christian love.
    Please let them know they are loved and accepted…by people they have never even met.

    From your sister.

  • March 30, 2014 at 4:59 am
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    Heather,

    it goes without saying as members of this planet, deep down we all feel sorrow for anyones grief on losing a loved one. (Hear me out folks)As i used to say to my children, I love you but i dont love what you do.

    So, as you feel pain, others feel pain but maybe not in the same way. You are in pain as a relative, others are in pain as possible victims of his (GB) policies. You included, you too are or were shunned and by him also. perhaps we all need to ponder on the fact that we ought to Love members of the society what ever rank possition or status as Human beings, but not necessarily love what they do. As i used to say to my children, i love you as my child but i do not love what you do but you are still my child.

    Each one here are grieving loss of some kind, loss of family member/s through death or shunning. Loss of life experiences, marriage, Divorce, procreation, career, happiness, freedom of fear etc. sadly becouse of what was issued from the GB of which your Grandfather was a member. You need to remember-and i say this with love, that your grandfather too shunned you and stood by his descision right up to his death.If another member of the GB had died and the same family situation existed, your Grandfather would now be instructing that family to shun that Granddaughter and ban her from his memorial. So try to understand that what pain you feel now is as a direct result of the very policies your Grandfather as GB imposed. That sounds harsh i know but it is true.

    Grief takes many forms and goes through many stages, loss, anger, acceptance etc. so i guess some comments can appear to be rude, cruel,insensitive etc but they are an expression of the particular stage of the grief process they too are experiencing. Yes, many are hurt, many are angry, many feel loss,hopefully acceptance and resolution will be achieved for all including you. many are in pain etc etc. it all has to be let out and released as part of this process. What can be achieved by going? If he really is now in Heaven-i only say that becouse that was his belief, he can see the love you had, he can see your pain, he can see also that he imposed that upon you and the rest of us in a multitude of ways.

    So if he can now see what pain he caused you if he is repentant he would still want you to not go, not to continue shunning but to protect you from further hurt it would cause if you did. You would feel no love in a den of baying wolves. You would have no closure in that situation only more grief, isolation and pain. On the face of it yes go! But thinking deeper im not sure either way that is what he would have wanted.

    Any upset by this, i am truly sorry, i too am imperfect, did not get a degree and did not intend to offend. I just wanted to try in my way to show Love.

  • March 30, 2014 at 8:52 am
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    Always wondered why some more dedicated and astute JWs used to refer to the GB as the Mother organisation even though all the members are men!

    Thought – Maybe it’s because they’re aways changing their minds.

    (My goodness, even for me that was a cheap shot,.. sorry!)

    Now that’s not a word you’ll hear them use very often.

    Lol smiley face

  • September 1, 2014 at 4:37 pm
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    Clearly another JW who hasn’t read the Bible. His only response is two sentences judging others… He missed the Sermon on the Mount

  • November 18, 2014 at 4:23 pm
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    To Amy –
    i got 4 words for you: keep living, you’ll see.

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