Guy Pierce has reportedly died of a severe stroke
Guy Pierce has reportedly died of a severe stroke

Multiple sources are reporting that Governing Body member Guy Pierce died yesterday morning, March 18, 2014, of a severe stroke. He was 79.

Pierce is survived by his wife, Penny, with whom he began pioneering in 1982. He also leaves behind five sons who were all Witnesses as of 2008.

As recently as last October Pierce served as chairman at the 129th Annual Meeting, at which the newly revised version of the New World Translation was released.

Noteworthy moments during this meeting included an occasion when he encouraged his audience to twist their bibles to see how durable they were. He also suggested that “new light” might be unveiled at the meeting, although this ultimately proved not to be the case.

Following his early work as a pioneer, Pierce served as a traveling overseer between 1986 and 1997. Thereafter, he and his wife were asked to serve at the United States bethel. Pierce served as a “helper” to the Personnel Committee prior to his appointment to the Governing Body. (see w00 1/1 p.29)

In 2011 Pierce sparked controversy by admitting that the Governing Body were pressing ahead with their ambitious building project for a new World Headquarters in Warwick, upstate New York, without being fully certain of Jehovah’s will in the matter. (see w12 8/15) Watchtower has since commenced building work, with the organization even likening the project to the rebuilding of Jerusalem’s walls by Nehemiah.

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Little is known about Pierce’s individual achievements as a Governing Body member because, unlike the precedent set at Acts 15, Watchtower keeps the minutes of Governing Body meetings top secret – even though the identities of members are widely published.

Pierce will understandably be mourned by those who knew him, especially his widow, children and grandchildren. But it is regrettable that ultimately his tenure as a Governing Body member was a wasted opportunity to bring about urgently needed reform.

Pierce leaves behind an organization riddled with secrecy and deception in which crimes against children are covered up and Witnesses who dare to speak out are persecuted through the cruel practice of shunning.

 

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***UPDATE***

The following announcement has now been made on the JW.org website

“Guy H. Pierce, a member of the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses at their world headquarters in Brooklyn, New York, died on Tuesday, March 18. He was 79 years of age.

In addition to his wife, Penny, Mr. Pierce is survived by his six children, several grandchildren, and great-grandchildren. He is also fondly remembered by Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world whom he regarded as family.

In a statement, his fellow members of the Governing Body commented: ‘Our memories of his courageous and faithful earthly life course will continue to strengthen us for years to come.'”

241 thoughts on “Governing Body member Guy Pierce dies of ‘massive stroke’

  • March 20, 2014 at 10:48 am
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    Amen dear sweet Heather.

    ‘A Friend’ knows exactly what jw’s practice as regards those no longer in good standing. I love my family but have already decided that I will never expose myself to their hypocracy and self righteous judgmentalisim ever again.

  • March 20, 2014 at 11:27 am
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    Heather, I think that this is the worst thing of all. Simply because you chose a different path, you will not be allowed to attend the memorial service for your grandfather. Is there anyone else in your family who has also left the JWs? Perhaps, if there is, you could have a small, personal memorial service for yourselves. Sometimes, that would be enough to give you closure. ****HUGS****

  • March 20, 2014 at 12:36 pm
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    I am sorry for anyone that loses a family member. That said, due to the governing body’s rules, I have lost all of my immediate family relatives except one (even though they are not physically dead). I’m sure as his granddaughter you saw him as a loving figure, but from my point of view, he was the same as the other Governing Body members….a dictator and voting member of a family killing destructive organization.

  • March 20, 2014 at 2:14 pm
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    I do not rejoice in anyone’s death. I am, however, glad to see that your article has caught the attention of so many active JW’s.

    I hope anyone who is visiting this site, will also take your survey on the home page. Thank you, Cedars, for this website and the opportunity you provide for voiceless JW’s to give their anonymous feedback about Jehovah’s organization.

    If you are a JW, thank you for visiting and posting your comments! I hope you will read some of the other articles on Cedar’s Blog. It is curious to see how many secrets are being kept from faithful followers of Jehovah. Do not be afraid to examine the Truth!

  • March 20, 2014 at 6:21 pm
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    What was it the old cowboy said, ‘Sometimes a man’s life in these parts might depend on a mere scrap of information’ . Or perhaps it was Ramone that said that.

    Perhaps all we are trying to do is assemble and compile these scraps of information in order to show a way forward to those that remain.

    Jesus spoke to the people in parables and illustrations.
    A couple a old parables I remember seeing a few years ago were ‘Capricorn one’ and ‘Barbarossa’ – both of them stories about a man who came back from the dead and both of them directed by someone called Paul Lazarus III – go figure!

  • March 20, 2014 at 6:34 pm
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    ummm, I am kind of baffled right now.. I am tired of hearing all the condolences going out for this man. He has ruined alot of lives, he and the other older men in NYC. He too had a choice to stop the insanity and reject decisions made by GB and not follow them, like you say Heather we as followers had free will. Why is it that you are only now sharing in this forum? We have been talking about your grandfather for years!!!!
    I also wonder why you say he was a great man to you, when in fact he was supposed to be shunning you because you did not want that crazy religion. His policies have left me shunned by my family, really seems unfair.

    • March 20, 2014 at 10:56 pm
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      the meaning of the word “condolence” means “suffer together”, “share the pain” – and it’s not directed to the person who passed on but to his friends or family, in occurence, Heather.

    • March 20, 2014 at 11:06 pm
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      You make a very good point of young JW’s getting baptized at 7-10 year old and making a Life long unchangeable decision? The Wt is against Child marriage right? Why? BC it is unfair to the Child and they cannot enter into a life long commitment that young and it is immoral etc. Yet, they encourage young children to get baptized and accept the WT as the “spirit directed” organization of God when they are seven or eight years old? They have hardly begun to reason anything out in life let alone make a life long decision of something they barely can conceive? If they ever change their mind they cannot have a relationship with their family or friends? That is Child and Human cruelty.

  • March 20, 2014 at 9:49 pm
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    Heather, I’ve never been a JW but I totally empathize with your experience of being shunned during a death in the family. I had to stop having a relationship with my father due to his abusiveness and prescription drug addiction. He blamed me (to the whole family!) for his divorce from my mother (he even filed on her!) and turned everyone against me. When he died three years ago, I hadn’t spoken to him in four years. Because he had disparaged me so badly to the rest of his side of the family, I wasn’t even allowed to attend his funeral or view his remains and say goodbye privately. You see, I grew up in a cult too. It was the cult of alcoholism/addiction. There are secrets to be kept, tyrants to worship, and eggshells to walk on! It was my own experience with this that gave me the compassion I have for my husband who is a “fader” from the organization today. I send you my condolences for your loss and I pray that you will have peace during this time and take comfort in what good memories you have of your grandfather. God bless you!

  • March 20, 2014 at 10:47 pm
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    Amy,
    “help them live a cleaner life”! You are right as Jesus they follow said (Matthew 9:12) . . .“Healthy people do not need a physician, but those who are ill do. . .

    Is the Watchtower a physician, no!! It is a “witch”! Actually it should change and call itself “WITCHTOWER”!!
    Teaching people to call other religions “false religion” = “help them live a cleaner life”?

  • March 20, 2014 at 11:50 pm
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    I know the comparison with Hitelr or Himmler is hard to face but there is truth in it. Im sure Hitler never actually forced anyone into a gas chamber personally, sure it wasnt JUST him.. But that is no excuse for the fact he was a leader in an org that did it. The GB hold the same responcibility as leaders. They are leaders who claim appointment and that speak for God.

  • March 21, 2014 at 12:08 am
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    Mr Don

    I am not nor have I ever been Df’d or put on any “restrictions” etc in my entire JW Life. My wife and daughter are active Pioneers still. I have JW’s come to my house and have “events”here. I have had the Governing Body members spend days at my house even recently on their travels. I sponsored JW refugees from Other countries that were Kicked out of their countries for being JW’s ( despite one of them trying to Molest my young daughter several years ago ) In a few weeks the JW’s are using my home since it can hold many people and I have a large yard for a memorial service for a young JW woman who committed suicide recently. I have loaned recently several JW personal friends large amounts of money bc they were in dire economic straights ( some pay back and some do not ) I sponsored some JW to live in the USA and others have asked me to do the same from Africa and S America but I declined bc it was for purely economic reasons they wanted to and I am not the government here. I get calls almost weekly from JW’s I know personally asking for some kind of advice or help from me..some economic and some not.. so for you to say I am DF’d or ANTI JW is wrong and shows you are jumping the gun and judging a situation you do not know anything about. You said you may take a “laid back” approach to DF’d persons etc? You may do that personally but the majority of JW’s and the instruction from the WT is the exact opposite.The Wt recently called DF persons or persons who disagreed with their teachings “mentally diseased” also their recent instructions on how to treat DF’s family member reaffirms their destruction of the family. I am sure you have read recent articles about how JW’s should treat family members who are DF’d? Be honest Mr. Don with what they are saying and teaching about this and other things.Do you honestly and Really believe what they are saying and teaching is accurate and loving? Is it the right thing to teach? Is it scriptural? When I was a JW Elder for many years I also tried to convince myself that they were right and had our best interests at heart and somehow they would be proven correct and tried to reason with the DF of family and the Shunning etc and the No_Blood issue etc but I had to live with myself and face the fact that they are wrong wrong , wrong. It was extremely difficult to do and admit. They have not proved the test of time and NOTHING they have predicted has come to pass. Where is their record of accuracy? From the Pyramids to Beth Sarim to the ending of the anointed calling in 1931?
    To less folks partaking of the emblems, to the accuracy of the year 607 BCE, to the year 1914, to Jesus coming invisibly, the Superior authorities, The King of the North and the King of the South,The United Nations, The Wt joining the UN secretly,the current explanation of “generation” the current Change again of the F&D slave and who it is?,Jehovah dwelling on his own Planet, Baking (tanning )yourself in the Sun is good for you ( yes they taught that )1874,1914, 1918, 1925, 1954, 1975, 2000. Personal Sex relations with your marriage mate, The Jonadabs, hiding of child molestation cases, protecting themselves instead of the Children,Getting a normal education, higher education or a degree, What right do they have to tell people it is wrong to get a College degree? Are they paying that persons bills or livelihood? Over50 years they have ostracized the flock if they wanted to get a degree or go to college bc it is SATANS den….Yet if they can use those College skills they will invite that person to Bethel to use their knowledge for their own benefit. I personally know of case like that. Even some GOV Body members had their own Children go to Colleges and Universities? Did you know that?Many hundreds of more examples could e noted here that are proven facts and the WT has not been correct on any of them..not one? All of these prophecy’s and teachings have been proven wrong over time. Outside of pioneering or going to Bethel for a few years what do they offer the young JW’s? They cannot date, they cannot play sports, they cannot join a club, they cannot be a cheer leader, they cannot join the Cub scouts, boy scouts, WHAT DOES THE WT OFFER the young people?They offer nothing?I know these things and I could not teach them to people anymore. Yes, I did believe it for many years but over time how could I continue to do that when the GIG is up and it is proven wrong?

    Does that mean I am against people I know who are JW’s and may believe some or all of it? No, I am not as you say ANTI JW but I will point out where they are wrong and the damage they do and the harm they cause and how they destroy families etc. The truth is in the results. I know that DF’s people are not welcome anywhere unless they tow the WT line and stay away from the JW’s et. If the Wt can speak their mind and be aggressive as you call it towards any and all they disagree with inside and outside the Congregation why cannot we point out their errors?

  • March 21, 2014 at 12:32 am
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    Mr Don

    I failed to say after the JW tried to Molest my daughter years ago I immediately made them leave my house the very next day. I went to the Elders at that time explained what had happened, that was before all of this stuff had come out. The JW predator denied it but the evidence was overwhelming to me. Thank fully my daughter had the insight as a child to lock her bedroom door and keep the perpetrator out of the room before any physical harm could be done.

  • March 21, 2014 at 12:53 am
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    My life is enriched because I follow biblical principles, I don’t follow men. When I’m given counsel I don’t get upset and have a tantrum and point the finger back at the elders and say “Well you’re imperfect too”, like a crybaby. I accept the counsel because I’ve read the bible and have made the realisation myself that I’ve committed an error in judgement. It’s people like you that have a problem with authority. Similar attitude of Satan who thought he was above Jehovah and his son. I’m happy with my life. I can say thank you to Jehovah and his son Jesus for living such a blessed life with a loving blood and spiritual family. It seems to me Raging Bull that you’re consumed with hate. I wish you all the best.

    • March 21, 2014 at 2:34 am
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      Amy, I’m sincerely happy for you for finding your way and be satisfied with it. Honestly.

      However, the authority you speak about is important. It must be a legitimate authority. As your acts and expressions are regulated by this authority you have the duty and responsibility to ensure whom you’re following is a legitimate authority.

      Let me give you an example Amy. If you read about the latest issues of WT about “this generation shall not pass”. The definition of “this generation” was the ones who “saw” 1914. Now it’s said it’s the anointed generation now who lived the same time as the generation that was anointed in 1914.

      This acrobatic approach has no hint from the bible, it’s completely developed by the GB. As this is a totally new “divine” Word of God, are they adding new sacred scriptures as well, since it has no place in the currnent Bible ? Clearly it’s not an interpretation of the scriptures it’s a new concept. This can only be inspired directly for them to say it. So, are they prophets ?

      You cannot answer this question with any other answer than yes.

      The question is not being rebellious against authority, it’s about what authority we are talking about. It’s your responsibility to decide whom you are following.

      For me, no human organization can insert itself between my heart and my beliefs.

      Please, if you choose to reply to this, respond to my question and arguments about “this generation”. What do you think about the change of the concept, “new light”, conveniently in 100th anniversary of 1914, which started making things embarrassing enough ?

      What “authority” is it, that keeps changing its own mind about the truths we should know ?

      Or would you follow anyone who declares itself to you as the “authority” without even using your reasoning abilities ? Even if you did reason and you are convinced – which I totally respect -, that’s fine. But then, don’t blame the ones who used their reasoning abilitites with a different outcome, of rebellion to “authority”.

  • March 21, 2014 at 12:59 am
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    What policy do you speak of?

    That word ‘policy’ is not even used within the organization?

    • March 21, 2014 at 6:07 am
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      Hello Amy. I have been one of JWs my entire life. I am not disfellowshipped. Let mecaddressca couple points. First of all, if the congregation did not allow willfull sinners…..there would be no congregation. We are all willfull sinners by definition. Second, you are discussing authority. Jesus said all authority in heaven and earth was his. He never transfers his authority to any one. We all have responsibility…….nobody has authority. When Jesus told his disciples that the Pharisees “lord it over” the flock, another possible definition for thatcterm is “insists on their authority”………who Amy insists on their authority in the organization today?

      • March 21, 2014 at 6:36 am
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        Oh, Amy… you’re just a woman in the org. The ELDERS know there are “Policies”. You do not, because you are…well…low level. The most you can ever be is a pioneer or the wife of someone that knows “policies” and even then you will be kept in the dark. The information is online all over the place, which is why you are told to NOT LOOK AT IT. Hmmm, why is that? Thousands of people…find things out and leave the ORG. WHY? Are all of these people (ex-elders, ex-C.Os, ex-Gilead missionaries, ex-pioneers etc.) lying? For what? Many have sacrificed family and long-standing friends not because of “SIN” but because they’ve found out things…things that the WT does not want YOU to know, because they need your money. And they get off on controlling you. Absolute power corrupts…..absolutely

  • March 21, 2014 at 1:01 am
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    This comment is not for apostates. It is not to offend. It is for those who believe in the bible as the word of God. Wikipedia has a very good definition of the word APOSTATE. Just for your Info.

  • March 21, 2014 at 1:06 am
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    When people become disassociated from the organization of the Jehovah Witnesses due to sin. Why do you seem it appropriate to socialize with them? We’d be just like every other religion who allows willful sinners to walk in and out of the Kingdom Hall? Or is it only right to segregate and ban paedophiles? They need to show a measure of repentance.

  • March 21, 2014 at 1:17 am
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    Hi May

    What about if people disassociate firms the Wt bc they do not believe the teachings anymore based on their own personal research or they had a serious misjustice done to them in the WT org just decide that the WT is not telling the truth at all? Or they decide that perhaps the teachings of the WT are not true at all and they have been taught wrong or they see that the WT is hiding things to protect themselves against lawsuits etc or they just don’t want to
    be what they feel is a puppet to the them anymore? Or perhaps they decide that they were only 7,8,9,10 years old when they were baptized and never really had a chance to examine the WT closely until they became mature adults with proper understanding?

    Maybe they just don’t believe what they teach based on their own findings? Does that mean we should SHUNN THEM and hurt them emotionally and disown them as friends and family? Not tying to argue here just bringing out a logical point? why does the WT say it is NOT WRONG for a Catholic, Baptist, etc to change religions but if a JW does that they are condemned?

  • March 21, 2014 at 1:33 am
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    Amy,
    Many people (for example myself) did nothing when they disassociated themselves. The did not do what you so judgementally call “sin”. My family still chose to shun, because that is what the WT says they must do not the bible. Protecting paedophiles is not a sin, it is against the law. If an Elder was in good standing they could be given 3 years grace if they molested a child. Where is that in the bible? The new light the WT received on that was when the court cases started mounting. When a paedophile “repents” what happens? Do they turn up in a new congregation? Is the congregation told? Do your research and start questioning those who should be called to account. Its not just about having paedophiles in the congregations, as if that is not bad enough – you condemn people whether they have “sinned” or not and even if people have “sinned” in your eyes, should a christian do this? You are right, you are not like any other religion – thats because Jehovah’s Witnesses is a cult, with made up doctrine that changes when the lawyers advise and the accountants present the bottom line. I can only feel sorry for you.

  • March 21, 2014 at 3:58 am
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    Amy, (like many other JWs) is labouring under the delusion that the congregation is kept clean by disfellowshipping and thereafter shunning any who have committed “sins.”

    Yet, hidden beneath the saccharine veneer of brothers and sisters smiling faces – within the congregations are paedophilia, domestic abuse, child beatings, wife swapping, alcoholism, adultery, fraud, homosexuality and backstabbing.

    Unfortunately JWs still profess to be superior to the rest of us imperfect humans.

  • March 21, 2014 at 4:16 am
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    Hi Holy Conolli
    I’m surprised the wts hasn’t tried to d/f. you, considering your stand for truth against their deception. I appreciate what you have done to help.

    I can’t see why witnesses have to take their unhealthy view towards those d/f.

    Encouraging young ones to baptiste early has inherent deception. When I served as an elder, it was viewed as a means of control. It took the young one out from under the control of the parent and into the hands of the congregation.

    They(wts) couldn’t provide any other worthwhile pursuit other than the ministry, and so all other outside pursuits were frowned upon and discouraged even though they’re not unlawful.

    I haven’t been d/f neither, had the c/o an another elder visit a couple of times about a month ago. Even though I challenged them to explain, how the light could be getting brighter, when in fact, the thoughts had changed completely, turning one light off and turning another on, making the previous thought wrong and false. They could see the truth of that, so they know. But their blinkers were on for as they were leaving I was encourage to come back to meetings.

    May you have peace
    Duds

    • March 21, 2014 at 2:26 pm
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      I am sure at one time they would have loved to DF me and prove their point. However, I just faded out, stopped going to meetings, expressed myself individually etc to certain ones I feel comfortable with and as time went by I just sort of became forgotten you might say? I like it that way. I really don’t want anything to do withthem as an org. I do have a few JW friends I occasionally talk with and hang with and they feel free to discuss some points with me but they do not 100% really tell me how they feel and it is no sense to argue w them anymore. They know how I feel and if they want to talk about it I will.I have a hard time believing I allowed myself to b such a GOOD JW at one point of my life. I was a “true Believer” for many years until I couldn’t accept all the negative and unhappiness and flip flopping they kept doing.The fear mongering and threats were to much and I saw so many political games in the cong and Elders. Not to say there were not good times as well with some good people but as time went on the GOV Body became more authoritative and less loving everyday. Those special ELDER classes became lessons for how to defend the WT and it wasn’t about helping the brothers anymore. It was all corporate stuff defending them against Lawsuits etc. I had to ask myself? Did I sign up for this? Why am I here? What is this all about?

      Everything became so petty and controlling and everyone was viewed as a suspect it seemed. It was almost like the Kremlin back in the day? Guilty until proven innocent. It was not a spiritual; experience anymore. It was you must Listen, Obey and perform?

  • March 21, 2014 at 4:20 am
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    Forgive my analogy here.

    The WT claims to be clean because of disfellowshipping. Let’s think of a city that professes to be clean. The streets are gleaming, the houses all appear clean. However, to achieve this cleanliness they simply dump their trash outside their city. It’s not that they don’t produce sewage, they just pour it outside. So rather than being truly clean, they just spread their crap elsewhere, dumping trash wherever they feel.

    The problem is that their ‘trash’ is made up of humans. Rather than truly being an answer and cleaning people, anyone who doesn’t fit their narrow mold is just cast aside. Many of these are used and abused, in need of help, and they are isolated from those closest to them, this in their hour of need. So, not only do they throw them away, they make them toxic.

    There are those who have done some looking around in this supposedly clean city and found how dirty it really is. So they go outside. They are not discarded, they chose to be elsewhere. So then, loyal residents of the city view them as trash also. Not based on anything more substantial than their location.

  • March 21, 2014 at 12:46 pm
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    Fading Brother, Though I can barely see you over there (love your name) I wanted to clarify about Raymond Franz. Many believe he was d/f for apostasy.

    Accoring to his book “Crisis of Conscience” (which you can d/l on line for free), Ray was d/f for eating with a disfellowshipped person. That person happened to be his boss. His boss had dissassociated himself as he thought he would be able to help Ray better that way. When the boss d/a himself, he was then d/f. (another new policy change I believe, but not 100% sure)

    The GB had no valid reason to d/f Ray, he had done nothing wrong and he could repudiate with Scripture everything they tried to throw at him. They desperately wanted him out of the org.

    He was a loose cannon for them as they knew he had inside information from his years of service, they were afraid of him, so they retroactively changed policy so that eating with a d/f person was a d/f matter. (retroactive to cover the date that a good jw saw him eating in public with his boss and reported it)

    That is the devious scheme the GB cooked up so they had a “valid” reason to d/f him.

    I recommend EVERYONE to d/l and read that book. If your eyes are open even a crack, you will have 20/20 vision barely a few pages in.

    It just literally blew my mind because I could remember some of the things he talked about and he had documentation to back himself up. I remember praying for the brothers in Malawi. While they were allowing all those sacrafices, death, rapes, etc and encouraging the Malawis to be strong and not purchase that government card, even though they only had a one party system; they were telling the brothers in Mexico it was OK for them to keep bribing officials so they could get a card that said they had served their required military time. The bros needed that card in order to get a passport to travel to the USA. And the GB had big plans for Mexico.

    Just follow the money.

    Score: Truth – 1
    GB -0

    Here is just one site where you can d/l his book. You owe it to yourself. It will be worth the time, I promise you. It gives you confidence to speak out when you have the facts documented.

    Did I really just sound like an info-mercial?

    http://www.ebook3000.com/Crisis-of-Conscience_97009.html

    I patiently waited at half.com and found a copy of that book for $10.00.

    My patience paid off again, a couple of months ago, I got the book “In Search of Christian Freedom”, also by Ray for less than $15.00.

  • March 21, 2014 at 2:30 pm
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    Fading Brother

    I am pretty sure back in the 80’s or maybe a little later there was a GB member that was guilty of Child Molestation. His name was Greenlees I belive? He was asked to move out of Bethel and sent somewhere to “special” poneer. He later died but it is al hush hush and he was not discliplined to my knowledge? Does anyone have info on him and details to what happened?

  • March 21, 2014 at 2:55 pm
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    Fading Brother – I agree.

    I did not have the option of fading, or just walking away from the Org. If I could have just left, I would have. I was actually relieved to be disfellowshipped, as I felt this to be my only escape from an unhappy way of life; sitting through endless meetings and assemblies and where plodding from door to door flogging poorly written WTBTS literature was the main objective.

    I have no regrets about being disfellowshipped – my regret is that I ever got baptised at the innocent age of 13 to start with. The loss of my family though still upsets me greatly.

    It annoys me that far greater “sins” than the one that led to me being dfd were commonplace amongst the congregation that I was in, and yet most of the ones who committed them remain in good standing with the congregation (in fact, fawned over by COs and branch reps) and in the bosom of their families.

    So much for the Clean Congregation!

    • March 21, 2014 at 4:06 pm
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      fading brother

      I remember there was a brother I the Congregation that was like over 400 lbs.! I got assigned to work with him going door-door! I was so EMBARRASED as he could barely walk to the door. At the same time I was questioning the WT position on men having beards and they said if a brother wears a beard he is not allowed to go door-door or if he does he goes by himself? They said a Beard was sign of rebellion and it reproached Jehovah? I could not make any sense out iof this dogma. Anyway the brother was nice person just so HUGE it was a real embrassment but yet they would make exceptions for this but a manly beard was a “reproach”? Who comes up withthese ideas anyway? However it is a well know fact that the 2nd Pres of the WT Judge Rutherford was a Cigar smoker and a heavy drinker but that is OK? So If an “ANNOINTED” one was doing a DF act all his life and yet was the Pres of the WT Society and an anointed one but if Smoking is so displeasing to Jehovah how could he be a true servant of Jehovah? it is the same as if he had been fornicating or stealing all along since these are all df offenses right? They pick and choose what they want to DF people for. The Obese brother did die of his weight problem but he was never counseled or DFd for his obesity. Not that he should have been in my opinion but obviously he had some other issues. There are many Fat obese Elders around.

  • March 21, 2014 at 3:07 pm
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    Heather,
    Your patience and strength of character in the light of all of this bitterness and pain (though of course it’s understandable that we the shunned are in pain) is an example of respectful dialog and grace. May you find peace, though I don’t agree with an awful lot of what the JWs teach. I understand loving a family member who is deep in the organization. My own father is an elder, and though he says he sees some of my points against the organization, he can’t agree with my decision and believes in my eternal destruction being imminent.
    Anyway, I digress, I wanted to thank you for your presence and clearheadedness.
    I hope you find peace as you go forward.

  • March 21, 2014 at 4:32 pm
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    Thank you for that information about Leo Greenlees.

    I hear some on here who are looking for spiritual fellowship. I’ve found what I call a virtual KH. There are people honestly searching the scriptures for truthful answers, and they have a discussion forum that is really active. http://meletivivlon.com/ If you like what you see, send an email to the administrator and ask for an invitation to the discussion forum. A good many are still attending meetings, but their eyes have been opened. D/F ones are welcome there. I feel more spiritual minded now than I ever felt at the KH. Truth is, I have missed fellowship. It won’t be my family, but they are my brothers and sisters.

    Don’t go there with an agenda or to start trouble, they don’t tolerate that.

  • March 21, 2014 at 5:17 pm
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    Fading Brother, I think I made a comment (along with someone else) in that direction. I wouldn’t say I was completely shunned, but I expressed my doubts about literal understanding of the Bible and even, the “relevance” of some parts of it. Some people politely said they don’t agree with me at all. Another point I expressed was something about Paul and his teachings, around which I have doubts as well.

    After insisting a little on those points I kind of felt there wasn’t that much enthousiasm to get into such discussions. I think indeed, that many going on that site aren’t inclined to question the Bible, too much. Though they do question and critisize the WT doctrines in a very constuctive way.

    For sure, the folks there are nice people and they are tolerant, but I still felt I was out of place with my wild questions.

    I still strongly recommend anyone who would like to take a tour there, you may find many interesting points discussed there and as I said, the people are actually quite nice and clever, and they like going into detailed discussion. They are not fanatics.

    By all means, I think it’s worth a look. I still do so, but I don’t challenge my wild questions there :-)

  • March 21, 2014 at 5:57 pm
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    You have no idea what the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses is or what it is to be a Jehovah’s Witness. The Watchtower is one of many publications that is distributed by the Jehovah’s Witnesses. If you had any idea about what you were talking about, you would know that the Bible is the basis for all those publications. Hence why they are all referenced with Bible scriptures. Please stop embarrassing yourself.

  • March 21, 2014 at 6:08 pm
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    Heather, nobody can stop you attending a memorial service for your grandfather nor will the brothers attempt to stop you. In fact, Jehovah’s Witnesses allow anyone to attend meetings, they do not stop anyone. With all due respect, this is a well known fact. However, if you have been disassociated, the brothers may not speak to you. You have every right to attend the memorial.

  • March 21, 2014 at 6:17 pm
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    Fading,

    Yes it is the same site. Thank you JB for your comments. There are parts of the Bible that I do not understand and I am not nearly as knowledgeable about key subjects as I would like to be. I am just so tired of having to go it alone spiritually. I have made many new friends in the “world”, I have a full life. But something is still missing in my life. I can’t relate to people about spirituality unless it is someone who knows exactly what the whole JW experience was like.

    For me, for now I feel accepted and I am learning things I didn’t know before.

    I agree with you JB, I think our conscience is key. I live by the golden rule of love. It feels so good to volunteer and help people.

    I guess we each have to keep searching until we find our own truth.

    I believe as of today that forum is open to the public. My bad. It was invitation only while they were working out any bugs as it is a new site. http://discussthetruth.com/index.php

  • March 21, 2014 at 6:28 pm
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    Amy, You think you know. But your whole life is based on an illusion. You can’t see anything because you have been brain-washed and you don’t even know it.

    You do realize you could be disfellowshipped for talking to us disfellowshipped, mentally defective apostates, don’t you?

  • March 21, 2014 at 6:29 pm
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    @ Cedars

    Thank you again for your work. This has been an incredible thread, I had an epiphany when I read Heathers comment.

    @ Heather

    First and foremost I am very sorry for your loss. As any man in power, he had the responsibility of making decisions whether jointly or on his own that would affect millions of lives.

    I wanted to thank you for adding clarity to something I have struggled with since I left. You pointed out very simply, yet concisely that all of those who lost their lives due to blood issues had freedom of choice and they followed the direction of the Governing Body and the WTS. You are 100% correct that they have the choice and choose.

    While it may seem reasonable to argue that the choices made by the victims of the blood issue were duped and deceived. Whose to say your grandfather wasn’t deceived also by his teachers and in sincerity believed what he promoted.

    There in lies the rub or conflict for me. I was an elder and I think of the lives I influenced, A young man who had a full ride scholarship to Vanderbilt for Engineering left college because of my misguided advice, a young couple faced child neglect charges because of their stance on blood as I stood by with them and their newborn who needed blood.

    Ultimately I used the internet to finally expose this terrible organization and all of its lies. I made the choice to leave, as I felt this was the only right choice to be made. The simple fact remains, I deeply regret the hurt that was caused others by my belief system. Ultimately we can only hope the facts will come to light for those left in the organization. I have come to grips for the guilt that comes from life changing bad advice I gave to so many (21 dedicated Bible studies and there families now totaling over 50 people) all who are held captive to this belief system due to my zeal for a belief that I thought was right. I hope for mercy from this community, because I was a zealous witness. I wanted to save as many lives as possible, not entrap people. I am now left with the immutable truth, I had the right to choose. Because of you, I am reminded that I am not the only one who chose, everyone chooses and should be personally held accountable, good or bad.

    Heather, you are right to love him for what is good and to put away what was bad, it is as Excelsior said, we are all some of both.

    @ Excelsior, Heather, Cedars

    Thanks, I grew a little today and I am closer to who I want to be because of you all.

  • March 21, 2014 at 6:30 pm
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    I won’t tell on you, Amy. But I cannot speak for anybody else. Somebody could be taking down names.

  • March 21, 2014 at 6:53 pm
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    It seems you’re not sure, so why are you stating it as a fact? Heather will be allowed to attend given she is his granddaughter. It seems you are the only hating on this website. Stop with your hateful propaganda of the Jehovah’s Witnesses and sort your business as a mature grown adult rather than resorting to false claims on websites.

    • March 21, 2014 at 7:55 pm
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      Amy

      Ye, she will probably be able to attend but for sure she will be Shunned. The policies have not changed. The Kremlin has not givenup yet. The Politburo still is in STRONG control.

  • March 21, 2014 at 6:54 pm
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    Tiger, What a wonderful, uplifting comment, it made my day!

    I can feel your remorse. You made me realize my own guilt. We are all guilty of going in field service…and in some way shared in bringing innocent people into the “truth”. We all drank the koolaid.

    The difference is that we survived the koolaid and are free to live a life of our own choosing.

    After all of my research, I am still convinced that the GB knows exactly what they are doing. Their history goes back too far to be innocent. My research’s conclusion is it is all about money and power.

    Heather is astute. I believe it is possible to love the person and still hate their actions. I’m glad Heather came here and commented. We comforted her and she brought out the good we all have in our hearts.

  • March 21, 2014 at 7:03 pm
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    Well if you knew anything about it like you say, the term ‘disfellowshipping’ or ‘df’d’ is no longer used. You are no longer a Jehovah’s Witness. What I don’t understand if you don’t want to be a part of the organisation- you’re in your right. But why do you all decide to become internet hero’s and start attacking the Jehovah’s Witnesses online? What do you hope to achieve? Are you hoping to round up a posse of followers of your own? If so what do YOU believe? Enlighten us…?

    I suggest you move on with your life…do something constructive with your time other than disparage others for being part of the Jehovah’s Witness.

    For the individual who said I could be ‘disfellowshipped’ by talking to apostates. Lies, lies and more lies. That’s all you people have- lies. I would be given counselled yes, not disfellowshipped. Stop making the organization to be the green-eyed monster.
    It’s not that all.

    • March 21, 2014 at 8:01 pm
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      Amy

      IN all sincerity isn’t it true that Raymond Franz was Df’d for talking ( having a meal ) with a so called disassociated person or DF’s person? Who happened to be his Boss at work? Based on recent WT articles are not the JW’s instructed to Shun and even remove their own family members from the home if they do not follow the WT instructions. Recent articles show that.

  • March 21, 2014 at 7:12 pm
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    I could be counselled on this, not disfellowshipped. Stop making up lies to suit your argument.

  • March 21, 2014 at 7:41 pm
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    Fading brother that will never happen. So I suggest you to take a seat and wait. You are directly challenging Jehovah? Rofl. You’re God Satan does not prove a challenge for Jehovah yet you think you do? You’re a faithless individual. You seem to believe men as being the central power of the Jehovah’s Witnesses organization and totally discount Jehovah and Jesus. Any new information brought out through the org is only possible through Jehovah and his heavenly organization. The GB is not making it up as they do like you all think.

    • March 21, 2014 at 8:15 pm
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      Amy

      Not to argue but your comment that any new information is only brought out by Jehovah and his heavenly organization? So does that mean that Jehovah gave the gov body the new interpretation of what a “generation” means now? Does that Mean Jehovah and his heavenly org also gave the new info on who is the F&D Slave and that it only is the Governing body and NOT all of the anointed as has been taught for 60 plus years? Does it mean that Jehovah and his Heavenly org also revealed the “NEW” info on how to treat and Shun DF’d ones in recent WT magazines? How about the recent upcoming article on JW’s going to College and getting a so called “higher” education? Is that also from Jehovah and his Heavenly Org? Bc they have flip flopped on the Higher education issue for may years..sometimes lightened up on it and then went back to not allowing it or EXTREMELY discouraging it making some feel guilty about it. Amy, Honestly is that what you feel in your heart of hearts?

      These “NEW” instructions and Ideas are from Jehovah and his heavenly Org?

  • March 21, 2014 at 7:45 pm
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    They used that term in previous times from the platform but no longer do. They have exchanged that term for ‘no longer a JW’. It still used among brothers and sisters however the term is out

  • March 21, 2014 at 9:03 pm
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    Holy Conolli and Fading Brother, I believe Amy is not here to find truth. I suggest we not take the bait, ignore her, and she will go away. It’s too bad we don’t have a chat room, or someplace to pm as it seems like we are all at home on a Friday night…with no one to talk to but an Amy person who is wasting our time.

    That forum has a pm feature. I’m just sayin

Comments are closed.