As the threat of a total ban on their activities in Russia looms closer, 8 million Jehovah’s Witnesses have been asked by their leaders, the Governing Body, to participate in a letter-writing campaign protesting the infringement of religious freedoms.
A press release posted to JW.org yesterday called for a “direct appeal to Kremlin and Supreme Court officials for relief.”
It was further pointed out that, quite apart from resulting in the seizure of Watchtower property, the proposed ban would make individual Jehovah’s Witnesses “subject to criminal prosecution for merely carrying out their worship activities.”
In a PDF sheet accompanying the press release, Witnesses have been given detailed instructions on how to write their letters, how soon to send them (no later than April 1) and what information to include. Addresses for the likes of Russian President Vladmir Putin and Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev are supplied, along with orders to “not mention the names of individuals in Russia who are Jehovah’s Witnesses” for fear of reprisals.
Not without precedent
As the press release points out, this is not the first time Jehovah’s Witnesses have been mobilized in this way. A letter writing campaign 20 years ago in response to a “smear campaign by some members of the [Russian] government in power at the time” is cited. Correspondence-based protests over persecution of Witnesses in Jordan, Korea and Malawi are also referenced.
One example curiously absent from the JW.org article is that of the 1934 letter-writing campaign urged by then-Watchtower president Joseph Rutherford against Adolf Hitler, which receives mention in the 1993 book Jehovah’s Witnesses – Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom (page 693):
Early the following year [1934], a personal letter regarding the situation was written by J. F. Rutherford to Adolf Hitler and delivered to him by special messenger. Then the entire worldwide brotherhood went into action.
Rutherford’s letter, a follow-up to a letter sent by Watchtower in 1933 aimed at placating the Nazis, threatened Hitler with repercussions in the form of “publication throughout the earth of the facts” regarding his persecution of the Witnesses.
When Rutherford’s deadline passed without any sign of let-up by the Nazis, a flurry of telegrams was sent to Hitler from Witnesses in Britain and America including the warning: “God will destroy you and your national party.”
Fast forward to 2017 and the approach being taken by Rutherford’s successors may be less bombastic and inflammatory, but it is just as unlikely to bring relief to Witnesses in Russia. More likely, Putin’s regime will be angered by the inundation of millions of cookie-cutter messages of indignation unleashed in countless languages, and may even feel emboldened to intensify their actions.
If Hitler’s response to the letter-writing approach was to famously snarl “This brood will be exterminated in Germany!” can we expect someone like Vladmir Putin to react differently?
Don’t get me wrong – though I am personally strongly opposed to the leadership of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and firmly believe that some of the Governing Body’s more harmful policies should be given much closer scrutiny by governments (especially shunning, manipulation to refuse blood, and covering up of child abuse on an industrial scale) as an “apostate” former Witness I am against what Russia is doing.
Banning: the wrong strategy
As I have already argued, a ban is the wrong approach to take when dealing with cultic movements. It drives them underground, making it far more difficult to hold their leaders accountable for their more harmful practices.
A ban would also, as JW.org points out, be an infringement of the religious freedoms of individual Witnesses in Russia (per article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights). Yes, there may be hypocrisy in the fact that Watchtower routinely violates the religious freedoms of former Witness “apostates” like myself through shunning, but two wrongs do not make a right.
Despite the fact that Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world are justified in their indignation against Putin and his thugs, the fact remains that they are being asked for little more than a token gesture of solidarity. A mountain of paper detritus in the Kremlin’s mailroom will do nothing but irk and enrage, making the plight of those most vulnerable to Russian oppression only more precarious.
Protests at Russian embassies by Witnesses would have at least caught the attention of the media, with the prospect of increased external pressure on Putin’s regime, but Jehovah’s Witnesses typically shy away from the slightest whiff of physical confrontation. Hence, Rutherford’s paper-based model of antagonizing maniacal despots is the go-to approach for the current Watchtower leadership.
Whichever way we look at it, the plight of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia is grim and these beleaguered people deserve our sympathy and solidarity. Nobody deserves to be robbed of the right to believe what they want by their own government, no matter how damaging or detrimental those beliefs may be.
It is already bad enough that Russian Witnesses are being taken advantage of by their religious leaders without their government turning on them and threatening to hunt them down like fugitives simply for being cult victims.
We can only hope that, sooner or later, Witnesses in Russia will realise that the organization to which they pledge allegiance just so happens to be completely unworthy of their time, dedication and loyalty.
Hundreds of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Nazi Germany died under the misapprehension that they were championing Jehovah’s “theocracy.” It is my sincere wish that Witnesses in Russia will not similarly be made to suffer before they realise that true paradise comes in the form of the freedom to think for yourself.
Related videos…
To me it shows their complete lack of faith in Jehovah their God, to imagine he needs their direction action and help.
Goes against all they preach IMO
@Julie,
They would explain to you that Jehovah allows us to put forth an effort which he can then bless (or in the English idiom: God helps those who help themselves). Just as Jacob made the effort to send flocks of animals as a gift to his brother Esau upon their meeting, even putting those flocks at the front, and just as Jacob’s mother had made the effort many years earlier to dress Jacob in such a way to trick Isaac into thinking Jacob was Esau. They put in the effort. Jehovah made their way successful.
I still don’t understand why all those Witnesses in Nazi concentration camps didn’t try to escape. Jehovah might have made their efforts successful. I mean, they thought they were God’s special people. Why didn’t they try?
@ Ricardo:
“I still don’t understand why all those Witnesses in Nazi concentration camps didn’t try to escape”.
The Witnesses were (for better or worse) completely trustworthy and honest. The SS guards would let the Witnesses shave them (as they knew they wouldn’t get their throats cut) or work in special privileged operations such as guarding SS loot when Soviet forces forced them to abandon the death camps in 1945.
To escape would have meant certain torture or execution of other brothers whom the SS would have certainly blamed as ‘culpable’.
Besides, with two sets of electrified barbed wire fencing, mine fields, guard towers with the accompanying machine-guns and search lights and German shepherd dogs trained to take down runners, the chances of a ‘successful’ escape or rebellion among the incarcerated was very slim indeed.
In fact although there were many revolts of the ‘Sonderkommandos’ which were work units made up of German Nazi death camp prisoners composed of prisoners, usually Jews, who were forced, on threat of their own deaths, to aid with the disposal of gas chamber victims during the Holocaust.’
There was one really big and somewhat successful uprising at the Treblinka Death Camp on August 2, 1943. The prisoners seized weapons from the SS storeroom, attacked the German and Ukrainian guards, and set some of the buildings ablaze. Under gunfire from the watchtowers, as many as 300 prisoners broke through the camp’s barbed-wire fences and fled through a mine field to the forest beyond. Only 100 or so survived the massive SS manhunt with many survivors joining Soviet partisan regiments fighting the Nazi occupation forces.
https://www.ushmm.org/research/the-center-for-advanced-holocaust-studies/miles-lerman-center-for-the-study-of-jewish-resistance/medals-of-resistance-award/treblinka-death-camp-revolt
As Jehovah’s Witnesses are non-violent pacifists the best policy in a worst case scenario like this would be to keep a low profile (not stand out), show deference and respect to the SS authorities and pick your battles carefully where you absolutely need to make a stand for true Biblical principles as a matter of Christian conscience not cult interpretations of the Bible.
Hope this helps somewhat.
Sorry but you’re forgetting the point he’s making. What’s the might of the SS guard compared to the creator of the universe? All they had to do was TRY to escape and their deity would do the rest. Why wouldn’t he? It worked for all the other Bible characters. Why not now?
I think Big B recognizes Ricardo has made an inaccurate assumption, based on Bible writings. Many times God’s people were taken captive, abused, and killed. Christ said some of his people (followers) would be persecuted, jailed, and put to death. Therefore the only possibility to escape suffering (as a group) for Christ is not to be counted as his people. Those are flat facts.
Since most of us also offer opinions here I’ll offer one of mine. Some of Christ’s people are among the JWs, so they cannot escape the suffering Christ said would come to them.
@Big B, et al
I believe the Witnesses were often put in charge of work units, and due to the trust put in them were given minimal supervision outside the camp. If I was in that situation I would be sorely tempted to run off and escape.
As most Witnesses would still be considered trustworthy, there wouldn’t be severe repercussions against them, I should think. And if I got away I would trust in Jehovah to spare me.
That’s what I would do, or try to do. At the first opportunity.
@ Ricardo et als;
Surely if I were facing the ‘showers’ (gas chambers) and knew this beforehand I would run like a rabbit myself. What have I got to lose, my life? Die by gas or die by bullet trying to escape. Some choice, huh?
However, much has been written about Jehovah’s Witnesses in the camps, and one example comes to mind.
The one in charge of J.W.’s, a Obergruppenführer (work group leader, I guess) would line up the Witnesses and ask the first one ‘how long he planned to be a Jehovah’s Witness?’
The Witness said ‘forever…until the day he died’. The other Witnesses in line were summarily beaten in turn. Note: The first brother was NOT beaten at all. The Obergruppenführer again went back to the first brother and repeated his question. The Witness repeated his answer and the others were brutally beaten again. This nonsense continued all day long.
This story, I believe, can be found in the 1959 publication “Jehovah’s Witnesses in the Divine Purpose” on line in a PDF format.
http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/divinepurpose/1959_Jehovah's_Witnesses_in_the_Divine_Purpose.pdf
My point is this, if this incident happened, certainly without cause or justification, do you think for one second that an escape attempt or infraction of camp ‘rules’ would not have had similar repercussions? After all the camp is run by Nazi’s and the most brutal, sadistic kind too. Namely the SS (read professional killers).
Chiafade, I don’t believe God has ‘rescued’ anyone since the start of the Christian congregation. Christ and his apostles (except perhaps John, the receiver of Revelation) died at the hands of persecutors; especially James, Stephen and Paul. The church calendar is filled with the feast days of Christian Martyrs. In fact the word ‘martyr’ is named for a Christian, Justin (surname) Martyr.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/history/people/evangelistsandapologists/justin-martyr.html
For Christians martyrdom is (or should) be expected as a follower of the Christ no matter what the persecution entails; this includes mob violence, imprisonment or death.
“As most Witnesses would still be considered trustworthy, there wouldn’t be severe repercussions against them, I should think. And if I got away I would trust in Jehovah to spare me”.
Although many opportunities for escape presented themselves for the Witnesses, as they were sent outside the camp as ‘secretaries’ and ‘nanny s’ watching the Camp commandants children none the less, did not avail themselves of the opportunity.
However, all that being said, I would be sorely tempted to run myself; after all self-preservation is an natural instinct given to all living creatures. “Fight or Flight” as they say.
Jehovah’s Witnesses are not pacifists. They fight for what they think is the kingdom.
@ Sarah;
True, but the fight is a ‘spiritual’ one, not with physical weapons that kill individuals (as in sanguinary warfare). Thus to the nations (their interpretation not necessarily ours) pacifists are “a person who believes that war and violence are unjustifiable.
synonyms:peace-lover, conscientious objector, passive resister, peacemaker, peace- monger, dove, etc.”
Nations do not recognize ‘spiritual warfare’ only physical warfare, psychological warfare or propaganda warfare, etc.
Now that I have the pdf instructions for the addresses of the Russian President. I personally would like to give him the REPORT OF CASE STUDY NO. 29 from the Austalian Royal Commission. In that way Putin can decide for himself whether Jehovah’s Witnesses are extremists or not.
Then, I will explain to Putin that banning is not good and that we should all be friends.
Ha ha, I like that one. That is a joke on so many levels. I think I’ll try that on my gang of heretic Brothers and Sisters. I know they will laugh.
Addresses to send “Report of case study no. 29 from the Australian Royal Commission:
Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin
23 Ilyinka Str.
Moscow
Russian Federation
103132
Dmitry Anatolyevich Medvedev
2 Krasnopresnenskaya Naberezhnaya
Moscow
Russian Federation
103274
Yury Yakovlevich Chayka
Prosecutor General’s Office of the Russian Federation
15A Bolshaya Dmitrovka Str.
Moscow
Russian Federation
GSP-3
125993
Alexander Vladimirovich Konovalov
Ministry of Justice of the Russian Federation
14 Zhitnaya Str.
Moscow
Russian Federation
GSP-1
119991
Sergey Viktorovich Lavrov
Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation
32/34 Smolenskaya-Sennaya Square
Moscow
Russian Federation
119200
Viacheslav Mikhailovich Lebedev
Supreme Court of Russian Federation
15 Povarskaya Str.
Moscow
Russian Federation
121069
@ Doc Obvious. Also I am sure Pres Trump can send some of this info direct to the Russians as well. He seems to have good connections in Russia they say. Lol
Here is the link to the pdf: https://goo.gl/omcSP8.
The link is short enough to include in a letter to the Russian Federation.
Great article Lloyd;
However, I must disagree with you, on this point.
“A ban would also, as JW.org points out, be an infringement of the religious freedoms of individual Witnesses in Russia (per article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights). Yes, there may be hypocrisy in the fact that Watchtower routinely violates the religious freedoms of former Witness “apostates” like myself through shunning, but two wrongs do not make a right”.
Thus the reason for the ban. The Russian Federation can easily prove your very point by the shunning and family chaos this ‘cult’ (and that’s exactly what it is) does on a world wide basis. The Federation can also show the world court and public opinion the ARC findings on YouTube concerning pedophile protection and the breaking of national laws in reporting abusers.
Every country on earth as a right to make and enforce laws in order to protect its citizens from perceived cultism, religious or otherwise, and foster peaceful relations within family units which however, cannot happen within the Jehovah’s Witnesses sect. And so what if “two wrongs do not make a right”. I don’t personally care about so called “rights” or perceived wrongs. Governments at large are not interested in ‘what’s right’ or what feels good, but they sure as hell are interested in Justice for ever citizen not just the members of a wayward, doomsday, foreign cult.
If justice is to be served then perhaps a small dose of good old fashioned persecution will do one of three things:
1. drive the cult underground (where they belong) as a bunch of modern day martyrs;
2. propose jail time for the leadership (elders, C.O.’s and others) in order to be ‘re-educated’ to the absurdity of their beliefs;
3.show the cult leadership (in the Russian Federation and H.Q.) that Jehovah (or whomever they are praying to) will not be able to stop any persecution especially, since I believe, that it is rightly deserved for their hypocritical ten year U.N. involvement as a NGO.
The stubborn stupidity of the seven mental midgets calling themselves the Governing Body of ‘spirit inspired’ decision makers in the Watchtower organization are their own worst enemy. They are feeding the flames to their own demise. I am truly sorry if that offends sensitivities for some of the visitors to this site but that is my belief concerning this ‘Evil Slave’ class Organization and the stupidly naive ‘sheeple’ that blindly follow them.
So, in conclusion I say let what happens-happen; “Alea iacta est”.
Oh, thank you and all others on staff for providing all of us ‘walking wounded’ a chance to vent our frustrations on this site and congratulations on your book; “The Reluctant Apostate”. My brother and I will be sure to order it on Amazon!
If only Russia were going after JWs for their policies… What a victory for JW victims and ex-JWs that would be.
Unfortunately, they are not. Russia is banning JWs regardless of whether they are a dangerous cult or a peaceful religion. Who knows? Maybe after banning JWs they will ban ex-JWs too. The Russian government only needs evidence of “unorthodox” beliefs and they’ll ban atheism too.
Why support any kind of ban? Cui bono? Only the Russian Orthodox Church. Replace all cults with one authoritarian, homophobic, and xenophobic cult. Except that this cult is backed by Putin himself. It’s scary.
I read a few articles that covered the reason for this ban. The reasons given were different, depending on the authors’ point of view. I believe the first one I read stated Witnesses were being banned because of their claim to be the only true religion. If that’s the case it makes sense the government looked at WT policies, such as its policies on shunning, education, blood, and neutrality in making their determination to ban them. Russian lawyers and judges would have looked at this, and they would have considered WT policy. They don’t have to claim the specifics in their ban. I’m pretty sure Hare Krishnas would not have been banned for claiming to be the world’s only correct religion.
Another article claimed Stalin had it in for the JWs, and the hatred stems from back then. The Russian government may not publically admit it, but there’s a good chance WT’s calling governments (Russia) the devil’s puppet, and telling its followers to refuse military induction probably plays a role. You cannot call some people or some governments a SOB and get away without suffering negative consequences. We’re living in a world that doesn’t operate according to ideal principles. Just like WT could, and did tell some of us, “get your butts down the road,” the Russian government can tell WT the same. Power rules here, not righteous principles.
Isn’t the WT authoritarian, homophobic and xenophobic as well, darkovercoat? A ban just means there’s one less cult running around sucking people in.
I’m listening though.
Atheism is not a belief system, by the way.
@Big B,
Your rant did not offend my sensitivities.
My sensitivities have been well and truly walloped so as to be numb through the abuse of our ‘loving shepherds’.
Very well said. You put my thoughts into words. Thank you!
My comment to Big B
I’ll try harder with MY comment next time.
Big B – I agree with your points :)
where is the proof regarding U.N. involvement as a NGO? Just wondering. I want to do research.
There is some good data and links here:
https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/united-nations-association.php
WS
@ Robin Miller;
Here are some additional sites that may help you with your research.
This is Straight from the Scarlet Colored Wild Beast (UN).
“Was the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society ever affiliated with the United Nations as a non-governmental organization (NGO)?”
http://ask.un.org/faq/14501
The following are from the Guardian news service who first broke the story.
“Jehovah’s Witnesses Link to UN queired”
Stephen Bates, religious affairs correspondent
Monday 8 October 2001 18.42 EDT
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/oct/08/religion.world
“Hypocrite Jehovah’s Witnesses abandon secret link with UN”
Stephen Bates, religious affairs correspondent
Sunday 14 October 2001 20.28 EDT
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/oct/15/religion.unitednations
I agree with your view Big B and you’ve said it better than I could.
Bring it to a head and lets see what happens.
Damn the torpedoes!
As I said once before, keeping future victims away from the Watchtower is far more important than the consideration of the delicate sensibilities of deluded Witnesses.
“Hundreds of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Nazi Germany died under the misapprehension that they were championing Jehovah’s “theocracy.” It is my sincere wish that Witnesses in Russia will not similarly be made to suffer before they realise that true paradise comes in the form of the freedom to think for yourself.”
I think this closing statement is ideal, but it reminds me that as JW you are taught strictly NOT to think for yourself–to analyze, or use critical thinking. The current generation of JW’s in Russia may not have suffered directly in the last few decades, but since 1917 when the Communists first seized power in Russia and began dismantling organized religions all Bible Students and hence JW’s have suffered on behalf of Watchtower, Inc. By being 2nd or 3rd generation JW’s, their children also suffer as witnessed in the videos where individual passions are subjugated to the passions of and serving the needs of the Watchtower, Inc–the narcissist in their lives.
The political writing campaigns described seem minor compared to the inspirational thinkers upon which Watchtower, Inc has built its doctrinal empire. Consider that Henry Grew participated in the New England Anti-Slavery Society and attended the World Anti-Slavery Convention in the company of Lucretia Mott and George Bradburn. It was the latter event whose male-domination fueled the women’s suffrage movement.
Does anyone sense a world-change a current-change arising from this “grass-roots” effort? Why not include human rights in this campaign? LGBT–maybe the morality code offends–but the value of human life–the blood of Abel–demands it.
https://blogs.psychcentral.com/narcissism-decoded/2017/03/14-ways-narcissists-can-be-like-cult-leaders/
https://learning.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/07/nov-7-1917-russian-government-overthrown-in-bolshevik-revolution/
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Bolshevik
These beleaguered people deserve our sympathy and solidarity? Really Lloyd?
I have agreed with you on everything Lloyd but not on this point.It doesn’t even matter which angle you look at this from.No way these people deserve such things.I don’t believe in bans either but at the same time if it hurts them my heart will not bleed.
I have mixed emotions about the ban, mostly I applaud it, but I also have concerns against it.
Yes JW’s will dig their heels in and it will harden most, if not all, to remain loyal to Jehovah, yes it’s an attack on human rights as we know it, but dang it, what would be nice is if they upheld the ban and successfully crushes the sect, permanently.
I get giddy with delight that there will be so many who will never have to suffer at the hands of WT policy, doctrine, rules that has ruined so many lives.
Even those who have been born and died loyal to WT have suffered unknowingly. Just think, knowing what most of us now know, what crap we beloved in, will never ever again affect anyone from this point on. Worst thing in my opinion would be a ban, then a retraction of that ban in a few years. Worst possible result.
I may take the time to use their contact list to compose my own letter in support of the ban but encourage them never to lift it.
@Jason,
I agree that a ban will just make the present Witnesses dig their heels in. Also, we should see the number of Witnesses drop a bit at first, then stabilize to a number which will pretty much plateau. I think it will be harder for Witnesses there to see The Truth About The Truth because of this.
I look at Singapore, for instance. Numbers there have stabilized at around the 2,000 mark for decades. There are very few people joining, but then there are very few Witnesses leaving. If anything the Witnesses will die out there due to attrition.
In the short term a ban will lead to a sudden drop in membership. But in the long term it makes the Witnesses stronger in their determination. Unless the ban is long enough, where all the Witnesses die out. Like what almost happened in Albania.
A ban won’t stop them.
Almost did in Albania. Certainly has in North Korea. All depends how long it is on for, and how strictly it is policed.
Ricardo if a ban stopped JWs in North Korea, why are some of them thrown into prisons? I spoke to a JW lawyer that was sent over to Korea to meet with those brothers, and represent them. I believe he meant North Korea when he told me of the experience. Or, are JWs also getting thrown into prisons in South Korea for actions stemming from their beliefs?
Witnesses were banned in Russia before and sent to concentration camps. They went. It didn’t stop them. The Society released a VHS video on the subject. Its a good video.
@Messenger,
The Witnesses in South Korea are the ones going to prison, due to compulsory military service. I can assure you there are no Witnesses in North Korea. Not a one. The GB helper (I can’t remember his name) in a talk which I heard explained there are no Witnesses in three countries of the world: North Korea, Afghanistan and Somalia. (Any elder who tells you there are any Witnesses in North Korea is very badly informed. I have checked the internet extensively for any information after one elder lied to me about it. It is a falacy.)
It is interesting to note that the Seventh Day Adventists claim to have an enduring presence in North Korea. How come they are there but the Witnesses are not would be interesting to research.
I admit it would be hard to enforce such a situation in Russia, but it is now smaller than the USSR. But if Putin ever went as hardline as North Korea’s leader Kim, the USA would probably assasinate him.
Yes, it would be a stretch to completely wipe out the Witnesses in Russia with a ban. However, Kim Jong-Un would probably be able to do it if he was president.
I meant to say here, under my comment that is being moderated, please correct me if what I have said is incorrect.
My comment has been under moderation for 24 hours now. I didn’t notice anything controversial in it. How bizarre!
Almost 48 hours of moderation. Can the moderator please come back to work?
Please correct me if I am wrong in what I have said above.
Hi Lloyd,
Nice write up as usual. I too am against the witnesses being banned. I would also agree that Russia is using the wrong tactics to fight the witnesses…I know in Russia from time to time, the witnesses have agreed to televised debates about their faith or Religion to prove they are harmless to the community or country so to speak. If If they allow debates, this could be an avenue or the best way to fight the witnesses. Have some1 like yourself and a few other in the debate to expose j.w. org it’s beginnings (Masonic & pagan origins (pyramidology), to the shunnings, blood issue, false predictions of 1914, 1919,1975, pedophilia abuse, UN associatiation etc etc.
I don’t think most of the j.w. rank & file know very little of what I stated above. Of course you will need translation, the Kremlin may provide that for free. Put it this way, if the witnesses win the debates which they won’t, Russia will lift the ban. Just think of it being televised from coast to coast..it will get massive world media attention. It’s only an idea..
Cheers
Putin is taking care of his citizens. Just the way I would protect everyone in my home from this evil cult, Putin has the right to do so within his country. I side with human rights: blood transfusions to save lives and no shunning which is cruel. Other than that can can believe anything they want.
Imagine what Putin will probably think, and feel, if even a quarter million of those letters get delivered to Russia. Probably pissed. WT is between a rock and a hard place. A letter from headquarters apologizing for creating ill will, and asking what it can do to resolve future conflict might have worked better.
@Big B
Sometime back I researched on the web if the Universal Declaration Of Human Rights was being enforced by countries. I looked it up because I knew WT violates article 18. One site stated those articles are viewed by countries as a political ideal to reach for, but it went on to write countries do not enforce those articles unless one of the laws in existence inside a country coincides with one of the articles. So, it seems that declaration has no power except in influencing countries to adopt similar laws.
A million dollar question: How quickly and severely would the gb change WT policy to prevent its (gb) members from going to jail? In the past when the shoe was on someone else’s foot, say the brothers in Malawi, no changes were made. Don’t buy that 25 cents political party card brothers in Malawi, and we’ll try to help you not get killed, or have your pubic hairs tied to a naked sister’s in a jail cell (a true account of what was happening that was shared at kingdom halls back then-I was there and read it), by righting letters.
By the way R.Franz claimed there was only one political party in Malawi at the time, so it was more like an identification card for citizens belonging to that government. There was no other political party in competition. Wonder if the gb would have passed a new rule if they lived in that country at the time, as a citizen, with their lives and pubic hairs in jeopardy. Or, would they have taken their chances of going down with the ship, as faithful ship’s captains, like the good shepherds they are?
What I really like is…I have to say it again, it gets me in the heart so much…what I really like is the uhhh Love Among the Brothers. You see with us its never ever every man for himself.
@ Messenger,
I remember writing letters during the Malawi persecutions by the one party system of then President for Life, Dr.Hastings Kamuzu Banda. Truly an egregious embarrassing situation for a former colony and everyone concerned.
That being said, would it have been better for the G.B. to have made arrangements with Mozambique and other bordering nations for refugee camps (paid for by the Watchtower) while appealing Dr. Banda’s egregious persecution policy rather than allowing the friends to suffer outrageous physical torture and other human rights violations? How about buying the damn card for the friends ($0.25) if that would satisfy the maniacal needs of a one party system dictatorship?
Meanwhile in Mexico (according to R. Franz’s book, “Crisis of Conscience”) the Mexican brothers were given carte blanche to bribe officials to prevent brothers from participating in National Service (armed training) during the tragic Malawi persecutions. Another “WTF?” moment brought to you by your so called spirit inspired “faithful and discreet slave”. I about soiled myself when reading about all of this! (My humble apologies to all if the WTF abbreviation offends).
Now, in answer to your ‘million dollar question’: How quickly and severely would the gb change WT policy to prevent its (gb) members from going to jail?
My answer would be PDQ (pretty damn quick). They are a self-absorbed lot; certainly not by, any stretch of the imagination, of the same caliber as Rutherford and company who went to the Federal prison in Atlanta. As Jesus once said: “They say but do not perform.” Matt. 23:3 Quite fitting scripture for these charlatans in so many ways. Why? Because they are a self-appointed, self-serving hierarchy; answerable to absolutely no one within the structure of this totalitarian regime. Not voted in by the laymen or elders the G.B. are thus not answerable to the congregation whom they serve. A corporation without stockholders whom they have to answer to.
With you Jason and Carbs…I think Putin and His govt should examine this religion closer…it has no problem inflicting persecution mental and physical…on people within it’s grasps…How many of us who at one time wondered in awe of it’s “glory”… have suffered and perhaps continue to suffer in many ways from this evil cult. How many of our loved ones lives have been affected and passed because this bunch of liars placed “heavy loads” on them… Jesus said his yoke was kindly…his load light…The GB continue to wield control…look at the size of those carts…little old sisters fighting and struggling with them have been heard swearin away, because of…”what next” will they come up with….and just look at the picture of Rutherford, sitting amoung his fancy furniture…his riches than he acclaimed for himself for putting…”kingdom interests” first….was he content with…”sustenance and covering”? A picture speaks a thousand words…..YEP! May Mr. Putin and other Govt Leaders begin to see this Organization for what it is…may the GB be held accountable for it’s acts of injustice….may they now feel how it feels to be abused in every way,shape and form…..and may their prayers land on deaf ears…if they even pray at all…let them know how it feels to be left with everything you love and care about…ripped away and you are left with nothing, no self worth or esteem….nothing…and this cult that took all your life, now views you as not worthy of living. The time has come….let them suffer for all the suffering they themselves have and cont. to imposed on people! They show no mercy…let them be shown no mercy! Write to Mr. Putin…tell him what the Gb do and require of his citizens who have become a part of this religion…that professes to honour God with their lips…but their hearts are far removed from Him!
@Sharon,
I think a better way of getting to the Witnesses, instead of banning, is having sites like this translated into Russian (or have a Russian equivalent). There must be someone like Lloyd in Russia who would love to help out.
Sites like this one give us Witnesses information about our organization which we never knew. We then spread this information to other Witnesses. The fact that Watchtower was an NGO associated with the UN would shock most Witnesses (try asking the Witnesses at your local cart about it; they will know nothing, but they will be shocked). It is fun to see the way different Brothers and Sisters react. I told my brother, and he made excuses for it (he’s a company man), as did an elder friend I spoke to. But the rank and file I have talked to have been shocked.
I was informed about this site by another Brother. There are many Witnesses who read this site and are benefited by it. I am sure many Russian Brothers and Sisters would benefit too.
It appears that the Governing Body’s letter writing campaign will have little effect on the Russian government’s plan to ban the Watchtower religion. However, the Governing Body members are quick to claim Jehovah’s blessings in a wide variety of matters, so maybe there’s a chance Russia will back down.
There was the cool summer which miraculously allowed the printing presses to run full blast, without overheating, when the Silver Sword bible was being produced. Miracle sand was provided by a typhoon just in time to complete a building project. Recently, chairs miraculously became available just in time for an assembly. And of course, Jehovah’s blessing was instrumental in getting the watchtower world headquarters built on a toxic landfill in Warwick, NY.
We will need to wait and see if divine intervention will prevent Jehovah’s Witnesses from being banned in Russia.
Rutherford built his mansion to live in, in San Diego, CA. I’ve been overseas 8 times (in 4 separate countries), and travelled to a dozen states in the USA. San Diego, CA is one of two of my most favorites places. The other is South Orange County, CA about 80-100 north of San Diego,CA. Interesting how Rutherford built his mansion in one of my most favorite places to live. Yet he came from back east, some 3000 miles from there. Why’d he choose that place? I wish we could all meet in San Diego, and you would see why his mansion was built there. I’ve got absolutely nothing against the highlife. Yet he told others to seek the low life.
Rutherford owned two 16 cylinder Cadillacs. Has anyone ever seen a 16 cylinder Cadillac?
My mistake (too sleepy). So. Orange County is only about 50 miles north of San Diego. I used to live in one, and vacation in the other. Vacation where Rutherford built his mansion. My favorite vacation spot.
Rutherford’s Beth Sarim extravaganza is an interesting monument to Watchtower false prophecy. During the great depression of the 1930s, Joseph Rutherford occupied this San Diego mansion and maintained two 16 cylinder Cadillacs, one on each coast. So much for dedicated funds being used to advance Kingdom interests.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_Sarim
@ Messenger:
Rutherford owned two 16 cylinder Cadillacs. Has anyone ever seen a 16 cylinder Cadillac?
No, I’ve never seen one but obviously, a special order from General Motors! It was not until after the stock market crash of 1929 that Cadillac announced to the world the availability of the costliest Cadillac yet, the new V-16. The new vehicle was first displayed at New York City’s automobile show on January 4, 1930. Basically, an airplane without wings or propeller. Check out the recent costs below, unbelievable.
The Cadillac V-16 is today recognized as one of the finest automobiles of the prewar era by many authorities. The Classic Car Club of America rates all V-16s as CCCA Full Classics, a rating reserved for only the finest automobiles of the 1925–1948 period. Values reflect these opinions; particularly fine examples of the 1930 production can change hands for more than US$500,000 as of 2004. As always, convertibles are the most valued, and the earlier cars more so than the 1938–40 vehicles. A good condition 1938 sedan can sell for under US$80,000. Certain custom-bodied vehicles have sold for even more.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_V-16
And the friends contributions, during the Great Depression, paid for it all. And the ‘sheeple’ are still being gorged by this Evil Slave. Wake up and smell the coffee ‘sheeple’ you are being duped!
Dear All.
Why should I give away my home or business address to a represor regime in a letter against them? ?.
They can built-up a handy data base of names/addresses.
Would you tell your enemy where do you live? Where they can find you if they want to get retaliation. ..
Not even the watchtower has a list in the HQ of every JW/Addresses worldwide . But that is exactly the possibility Russian government would has with all of thousands of letters tho.
Rgds
Reader Digest
I mean don’t use your home address as remittance if you are into writing to Putin. ..just a piece of advice ;)
Ok explain this to me.
The society have told us for years that the governments will turn on JW at the end. Now they are banning JW’s in Russia.
Is that not what they said would happen. So why are they asking everyone write to the Russian government to ask them to lift the ban???
It’s on the JW web site.
Do they not believe what they have been saying for years? They should be happy it’s a sign of the end. Why fight it ?? ????
Technically they have specified the UN, not governments would turn on first FALSE religion, t then it’s attention would be turned on JW’s. If any JW claims this is a sign of impending GT and Armageddon they are sadly I’ll informed. Yes I’m aware that many make that leap but most JW’s can’t really explain any WT teachings accurately just like when I ask a JW who the “faithful and discreet slave” is many still say all anointed alive on earth. Completely oblivious of the change made several years ago.
@ Jason;
I agree with you 100%. Most of the J.W.’s, including the congregation elders, have completely missed the information shown on the chart (timeline) in July, 2013 study issue of the Watchtower clearly (if anything the Watchtower says or prints can be taken truthfully or ‘clearly’) shows what has to take place before ‘the great tribulation’ even starts. Most people skipped it or didn’t look at the ‘Rapture of the remaining Anointed’ before Armageddon starts. And why, you may ask, did no one pick up on this New Light? Because not one question in the lesson was directed to it! Hiding doctrinal changes in plain sight!
So the door to door ministry accomplishes what exactly? According to the Watchtower we are not dividing the sheep from the goats in a ‘separating work’ (its not the proper time). Nor does it warn against the impending approach of Armageddon (again not the proper time). Nobody living today, by referencing the aforementioned timeline, can possibly think that the events shown will happen in less than 100 years (if at all)! So other than finding their “replacements” of what use is the door to door ministry? No use to anyone whatever as no one living today will be around (my opinion) to see the timeline fulfilled, period.
Those pitiable, delusional idiots knocking on doors don’t even understand their own doctrine, won’t live to see Armageddon and yet expect those they converse with to drop their beliefs in favor of their delusional message? Really?
A sincere question to all current J.W.’s especially those engaged in the pioneering ministry; “how’s that working out for you?”
@Big B,
Just a thought. There doesn’t need to be a rapture, as flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God. All that is needed is the death of the remnant. That could be accomplished in a similar way as what the light explains happened to Enoch, that he was taken by Jehovah, put into a sleep, a coma, which led to a peaceful death.
So, too, the remnant would die in their sleep (even the 25 year old ones we have around today).
And what with the overlapping of the overlapping generations teaching which will be the next understanding of ‘generation’ (the light has been turned off), even if the end comes in 1,000 years there will still be anointed ones. However, going by how proficiently the other sheep have been finding new anointed ones lately (clever, those other sheep), the remnant should number more than 144,000. Then they will no longer be called the ‘remnant’ but instead will be called the ‘glut’.
The number 144,000 being a literal number does not make any sense when that idea is accepted along with a belief that everything else in Rev chp 7 is figurative. Why would just that one idea be literal? Why accept replacement theology in that case, and not believe these ones are ancestors of people from Jewish tribes, for instance?
Also look at Rev chp 14. Every word about the same group there is also figurative. So, why not the number too? Who received what info from God informing that him that the number is a literal one, but that all the surrounding information is meant to be interpreted as figurative language?
WT is not trustworthy enough to believe their theology. Everything it teaches is subject to error and should be scrutinized by true Christians. Since they will lie about not being clergymen, how can we expect them to say, ‘we just don’t know’ about theology, when they can easily lie about knowing the truth about it?
Here’s a good one of theirs, as told by some elders, “that was the truth then, but this is the truth now.” I ask, does truth change?
@ Ricardo
See Rev 3:20-22 “Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will go in and eat with him, and he with me. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” New International Version
Ricardo the words “anyone” and “To him that overcomes” don’t imply a fixed number, but a number that is only set by the choices individuals make, not a choice that God has made.
Also, see Rev 3:10 “Because you have kept my commandment to endure trials, I will keep you safe in the time of trial which is going to come for the whole world, to test the people of the world.” Jerusalem Bible
For what purpose does this scripture say the tribulation serves? Is it coming to test people of the world, or to destroy the people of the world that aren’t JWs?
A different translation the New International Bible reads, “the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.”
Some of these come out of the GT after, and they are wearing robes washed in the blood of the lamb, “These are the people who have been through the great persecution, and because they have washed their robes white again in the blood of the Lamb, they now stand in front of God’s throne.” Rev 7:14 Jerusalem Bible
That scripture does not directly say if their robes were white in the Lamb’s blood before the persecution (GT), but my guess is those were not. Yet JWs teach those saved through the GT have a righteous standing before God before the GT starts.
@Big B,
So can you see now the purpose of the preaching work? The Witnesses of the other sheep group are having great success in finding members of the 144,000 still in the world. These remnant come in all ages: 20-something year olds, those in their 30’s, 40’s and 50’s. These must be gathered before the end comes.
We have seen tremendous success in this search for remaining members of the 144,00 still on earth today, with membership of this group increasing by 3,000 just in one year.
Maybe a better question for the pioneers should be: “How many members of the remnant have you you helped into the truth?”
So let us encourage all those pioneering to be zealous in their search for those remaining hidden remnant.
@ Ricardo;
Surely you jest!
“So let us encourage all those pioneering to be zealous in their search for those remaining hidden remnant”.
Good one, Ricardo! You’ve got me on that and managed to not only get my goat but my whole herd! Truly funny, well played my friend. :)
@Jason,
Don’t forget that new light has shown us that Gog of Magog is a collection of nations who will attack God’s people at the end time. How that fits in with the UN attacking us has not been made clear by the new light yet. But stay tuned, and if the new light hasn’t dimmed or even turned off (as it did for the understanding of ‘generation’), we may receive insight which ties all the ends together.
Or we may not. That light is a tricky thing. I wouldn’t be surprised if the GB combines both thoughts and new light will show that the nations are under Satan’s control, and so a combination of Satan and the nations is Gog of Magog.
Kind of like a dog chasing its tail, really.
The defense against the Jehovah’s Witnesses is NOT to fulfill their prophecies. They predicted the governments would come to the Kingdom Halls with guns drawn. It was a nightmare I had many a night as a 5 year old due to my father violently ingraining this into my head since I was born.
Perhaps a team of JW experts could read the content of the letters and make an informed reccomendation to Mr. Putin. As an “apostate”, I too wish not for the people under the WT’ s direction to be harmed. I have no problem with forcing the JWs to be transparent and comply with the laws necessary to keep their people as happy, healthy, productive citizens.
There are many who have left the JWs who will undergo much anxiety as they watch the governments of the world fall for the trick the WT is trying to play on them. The leadership of the WT wants it’s people to be persecuted. That’s the trick.
On the other hand, the JW leadership may have anticipated this response in order to stall for time. Who knows. What a tricky cult! It’s like being married to and divorcing someone with an Axis-II Personality Disorder.
That is true to some extent: the Watchtower invites persecution by outlandish beliefs and practices.
WS
All we can hope is some Russian bros and sis have a way to this site, wake up and exit the cult. Then they can go about their daily lives as citizens of their country. Isn’t it interesting the Nazi thing and the Malawi thing is rearing up again and innocent asleep sheep think it is Satan and a religious persecution when in fact they are political pawns in an elaborate chess game. I’m with you Big B I think some kind of retribution for fornicating with the UN by the watchtower whore does need some divine retribution but I would not want ignorant sheep to pay for this as collateral damage . Just the conniving leaders should pay for their deception and greed. As for Mr Putin he must serve his country as he sees fit it is his responsibility not ours or the gb’s . Isn’t it interesting the watchtower always banged on about being neutral when it came to politics and yet they threatened Stalin and Hitler with their god and their god did not step up to the plate A bit feeble if you ask me. History has a way of regurgitating itself and the sheeple sending letters will get them involved with the politics of a ban they do not understand because they don’t have full disclosure and it compromises their imaginary neutrality by being involved in a cause that their god should sort out. This could get messy for the stupid sleeping sheep and they will label it righteous persecution but it isn’t. It is just business Ruthlee
@ Ruthlee;
“I think some kind of retribution for fornicating with the UN by the watchtower whore does need some divine retribution but I would not want ignorant sheep to pay for this as collateral damage.”
Yes, to that. However, doesn’t the entire classroom of students get punished for the disruption of a couple of knuckleheads? As long as the G.B. and H.Q. ( the self-appointed, holy spirit inspired knuckleheads) stays in the USA they can do whatever, teach whatever, and say whatever to anyone; be it governments, officials, adherents, or dis-associated former believers.
That’s the rub; they operate with impunity and are answerable to no one as the ARC has proven. As the only ‘true’ religion why change anything, why compromise? Thus the ‘sheeple’, unfortunately, will take the brunt of governmental displeasure every time.
Education is the answer to dealing with cults, not brute force. If Russia wants to eliminate any dangerous cult they need to mount their efforts to educate their citizens about the dangers of cult control. And if the cults encourage illegal activity, there should be sanctions against such activity. Outright banning is ineffectual and puts the government in the role of the aggressor.
The JWs will simply use the ban as “proof” of divine support (since early Christians were persecuted) and win more converts. By enforcing a ban, Russia will help support the counterculture of JWs.
WS
I’m against actual brute force, Winston, but I feel a ban in Russia would push their demise along so long as the reasons for that ban were made clear. A ban could trigger a debate and that’s whats needed.
@ Winston Smith;
Even if the Russia was ‘reasonable’ (which they are not, and have never been) this is the simplest most cost effective way of dealing with cults.
We think like Westerners with a solid culture of democratic/Republican values with Roman Law entrenched in our system. Russia not so much; Russia has always been, “a despotism tempered by corruption”. This was true under the Czarist rule, under the Communism system and continues under the Russian Federation. Why? Simply, it works for them (the Russians). Otherwise they would overthrow the system by armed Revolution. Oh, that’s right the citizens don’t have guns. Wonder why?
“The JWs will simply use the ban as “proof” of divine support (since early Christians were persecuted) and win more converts. By enforcing a ban, Russia will help support the counterculture of JWs”.
Oh well, the JW’s will spin this anyway they want. Most of the sheeple will follow whatever they are told, won’t they? For example:
If the Ban is lifted = ‘Jehovah is blessing their efforts and need to do more before the time of the end arrives thus the divine intervention of Jehovah’.
If the Ban is enforced = ‘Satan is putting pressure on all of us as as this system nears its end. Let us pray for our beleaguered brothers and continue to preach in our own lands as never before as to remain strong in Jehovah’s service’.
No matter what the outcome there are always, as P.T. Barnum said, “a sucker born every minute”. If writing letters helps friends sooth their consciences and helps them sleep at night by all means do so.
I won’t be writing anything, personally. Why? Because I think the Watchtower is being cast off by Jehovah and he is showing his displeasure if they ever had his favor in the first place.
there are indeed websites in Russian language.
you can also find them on the right bar of this site, under popular JW sites in other languages.
Why do not they do like Jehoshaphat?
Get on your knees and pray for God to intervene on their behalf?
Because there would be two problems: Maybe they kneel when they will crumple their Armani suits.
When the rulers of the world attacked the JW, then would the end come?
Why then stop the Russian government from fulfilling the prophecies?
@Rafael,
You no doubt know that not every king simply prayed and then Jehovah fought for them. Often the kings went out to fight and Jehovah gave them success. Jehovah decided what their course of action would be, using the Urim and Thumin no doubt, or a prophet.
These days we don’t have Urim and Thumin, or prophets, just an uninspired falable Governing Body. “Put in the effort and God will bless it,” we are often told. And that’s what they are doing. They could well have decided to stay silent and ask us to pray, but they didn’t.
@ Ricardo;
Sometimes I wonder what you truly believe, Ricardo. It’s like you speak out of both sides of your mouth at the same time.
Not unlike many politicians today.
“My sensitivities have been well and truly walloped so as to be numb through the abuse of our ‘loving shepherds’.
And yet you stay….why? You should really ponder the following:
1.Do you like the abuse you are receiving from the elders?
2.Do you think that this abuse will change? 3.Do you think after 100+ years the Watchtower will finally get its doctrine correct or will it be constantly searching for (unscriptural) New Light to cover their ridiculous beliefs and time lines?
4.Do you think that Jehovah’s Witnesses are favored by God?
5.Do you believe that the Governing Body, after all that can be proven about them, are spirit inspired?
6.Do you truly believe that the reason for preaching is to bring in more of the remaining 144,000 which the Society does not recognize as anything but a group suffering from “mental or emotional imbalance — might cause some to assume mistakenly that they have the heavenly calling”. Watchtower 2011 Aug 15 p.22
Anyway since leaving thus finding true peace/freedom for myself and family my personal answers to the above questions 3-6 are a resounding NO. Questions 1 and 2 do not apply to me.
I think you are torn, my friend between knowing the real Truth about the Truth which is found on this site and what feels comfortable/familiar to you at the Kingdom Hall. In other words you may be suffering from ‘Cognitive dissonance’. All of us who have written on this sight have at one time or another suffered cognitive dissonance. It’s no shame in it at all; the longer you stay in something the harder it is to break ‘comfort’ of the connection.
Thus, as I see it, you have three choices;
1. ignore this posting of mine, which is certainly your right to do so;
2. flee from Babylon the Great and save yourself, unless you don’t believe joining the U.N. as a non-governmental organization isn’t so bad;
3. stay right where you are, on the fence, neither hot nor cold but “numb through the abuse of our ‘loving shepherds’”. Waiting patiently for change that never comes. Certainly, a difficult balancing act indeed.
Please, I think you are a good guy but just a little bit perplexed. Ask the above questions that I proposed Ricardo for your own self-worth and peace of mind…. then choose and stick with your decision! Stay and except things as they are or join the rest of us and leave (fade if unencumbered by family shunning). Whatever your decision I’ve got your back, man and will support your decision whatever it is.
Big B
There are many reasons people do not immediately leave abusive situations. Fear is one reason. Fear of the unknown, fear of not being able to make it outside of the comfort zone, fear of making a decision that you may regret, etc. but one of the biggest reasons people tell me they don’t leave abusive situations is Hope. Hope that things will get better. And this hope comes from what JWs are taught. Look for the good and gloss over the bad. Illustration of the white piece of paper with black dot in middle. See, we only focus on the black dot and don’t see the 99% white paper. Training to not see what is happening right in front of us, but overlooking, not focusing on the imperfections. Definite tug-of-war on the psyche and emotions. We cannot understand why people do not leave situations that are detrimental to their well-being, but when they are ready, they will break free.
I have a friend who woke up to the Watchtower but still spent three years looking over his shoulder for Armageddon. He’s now completely free and sees WT for the cult it is. He tried not to think of the wasted years and how he was taken for a fool because it angered him, but he’s now free of that also.
A lifetime of belief can be hard to shake, especially for those born in, it seems.
@Shibboleth,
I am a very patient man. A man who has been bullied by someone can choose to walk away from the situation. Another choice is, once he has realized he is being bullied, is to wait for the bully to come again, and this time punch the bully in the nose. And then walk away.
I have been bullied for years. I can endure more bullying. However, I have woken up to the fact that it is not my fault, it is not just ‘bad’ elders, but rather an abusive culture in our organization. I am waiting for the bully to return. And the bully does not realize I am awakened. Can you imagine what fun I can have ‘punching’ some of these bullies in the nose?
Very nice reply, Shibboleth:
I guess it is the abusive marriage situation only the ‘husband’ is the Watchtower and those inside, being abused, are hoping things will change.
“We cannot understand why people do not leave situations that are detrimental to their well-being, but when they are ready, they will break free”.
This makes absolute sense to me, I hope Ricardo and others, that are in similar situations, realize that I support them and feel their pain. But again, whatever they decide to do, as you say “when they are ready, they will break free”.
@Big B,
I am humbled by your concern in my welfare. And I really enjoy reading your posts.
The difficulty with written posts is it is impossible to see facial expressions and other gestures which help us to understand a person’s meaning. Plus, being Australian, sarcasm is our national sport.
So let me explain myself. I recognize the load of nonsense the GB has come out with, while at the same time I believe the Bible is God’s word, I love Jehovah and I see the need to be a real Christian. Thus, I have no trouble making fun of the ridiculous beliefs of the organization, and relish the opportunity to point out to anyone I can that our leadership are a bunch of bullies.
However, there are some things said on this post which are just wrong Biblically. Some people are saying the Witnesses should just pray and trust in Jehovah, not write letters. But kings and others in Bible stories didn’t just pray and wait for Jehovah. Most of the time they prayed, took action and Jehovah made their efforts successful. Thus, I feel the need to point this out to those who haven’t seemed to think it through. If I think I can add a new aspect to their thoughts I will comment.
However, you no doubt would like to know why I don’t just leave the congregation if I think it is all rubbish.
That’s a bit hard to explain, but let me say that the guys I mix with are a pleasant crowd. They are all victims of elder abuse, so we relate to one another. They all agree that there is a lot of nonsense being taught. Some are ready to leave, others still think this is the truth. Plus, I feel at the moment that I need to be able to tell the elders what a bunch of complete and utter mongrels they are, and I am able to do that better while acting as a victim than I can while acting as someone they view an apostate.
No doubt the day will come when the elders understand me fully and will give me a swift kick out of the org. But while I am in the org I can enjoy taking the mickey out of them and asking them embarrassing questions, pretending I am having doubts.
My answer to all six of your questions are “No”. The time will come when I decide I have had enough, or they decide they have had enough. But at the moment, with the information I get from this site, I am able to get the elders into a difficult position with information they know nothing about. Let me enjoy my little game with them before they and I part company.
The silly thing I say about finding more anointed displays how ridiculous the situation is now. We go preaching, get no results, but the number of anointed is increasing. Thus, we have more success with increasing anointed than with increasing our publishers.
It used to be the anointed finding the other sheep. Now the situation is reversed. I share this thought with Witnesses far and near to hope some will awaken, or at least see the nonsensical part of our beliefs.
Once again, I appreciate your concern. I am glad to have gotten your goat. I trust we can continue to enjoy our banter at this site.
@ Ricardo;
Love it man! “Plus, being Australian, sarcasm is our national sport”. I am a ‘Monty Python’ fan myself but as you say without seeing facial expressions its truly hard to tell when someone is ‘having a go at you.’
“The silly thing I say about finding more anointed displays how ridiculous the situation is now. We go preaching, get no results, but the number of anointed is increasing. Thus, we have more success with increasing anointed than with increasing our publishers”.
Amazing isn’t it! The Watchtower will not come to the obvious conclusion, either their time line for ‘the end’ is definitely wrong or the 144,000 is a symbolic number in a ‘symbolic’ book! But will the Watchtower change? Not without a 3/5 majority. Your spirit inspired ‘faithful and discreet slave’ in action! (this is sarcasm to be sure). :)
I am truly glad that you and your company of other ‘abused victims’ give those elders the grief they deserve and I certainly see that we are truly on the same page as to Watchtower indoctrination.
Down South here (Virginia) we have a way of insulting people that sounds ever so pleasant. Namely by a blessing or issuing a kindness before the well deserved insult. Example: “Bless your pea-picking heart but you’re dumber than a box of rocks.” That, Southerns believe in a left handed sort of way, takes the edge off the insult. It’s a ‘manners’ thing and is meant to be non-confrontational but yet get’s its point across. After all, can you truly get mad at someone that has ‘blessed you’?
Anyway, thanks for the response and feel free to get my ‘goat herd’ at anytime that is convenient for you.
Tell everyone ‘down under’ I said “Hi ya’ll!”
It would be interesting to see how the Jehovah’s witnesses of today would react to extreme punishment like was received under the hitler regime.Would they renounce their faith now under this type of pressure?
The jw generation of today live a life of hypocrisy,twist and bend the scriptures to suit themselves and a lot of them get away with it.They are a different kettle of fish from the die hards of war time.I just wonder how this test would go.
Just curious Lloyd,
Why do you think its wrong to ban a pedophile protecting cult?
You can’t be all that curious, mcfan, because I have written two articles and made one video explaining my position.
In short, I think pedophile-protecting cults should be banned from protecting pedophiles – and I think responsible, progressive governments can take that sort of action without violating anyone’s human rights.
Big B,
LOVE YOUR COMMENT 100%
COULD NOT AGREE WITH YOU MORE!
Lloyd,
So in other words, you feel the Russian Government should just enforce certain rules into the cult instead of just outright BANNING them?
Yes, shocking isn’t it? Imagine holding a cult to account. Imagine removing its tax exempt/charitable status for human rights abuses and criminally prosecuting it for endangerment of children and concealment of pedophiles. When you put it all like that, I suppose violating the individual human rights of cult victims by driving their movement underground makes much more sense.
The WT can’t actually go underground, can it? According to their beliefs they must be in everybody’s faces and preaching the news?
Realistically, if Witnesses in Russia view a ban as being the arrival of the GT, how many months, years or decades can a Human Being remain isolated in a bunker on red alert while seeing the world carrying on as normal before finally joining the dots. Those who don’t eventually wake up are the types who would only rush out and find another cult anyway. They can’t be helped.
I would like to see this ridiculousness brought to a head and I don’t want to see a reformed WT, I want to see a gone WT.
Any type of ‘end times’ belief is a blight on humanity and does nothing for us. It’s as Winston Churchill observed about Islam – “no stronger retrograde force exists in the world”. We don’t need thoughts of superiority combined with a gagging need for the destruction of those who don’t think a certain way. It’s evil, it’s wicked and it’s stupid and it needs opposing.
For the Russian Witnesses, a ban would be like taking cod liver oil – it tastes awful, but it’s good for you.
Actually, Jesus stated in Luke 10:7 “Go not from house to house.” So they should not be engaging in a house to house ministry anyway according to the Great Teacher, Jesus Christ. Yes, I wish they would wake up too.
Its funny how JWs claim to be NO PART OF THE WORLD or
to NOT DEPEND ON WORLDLY GOVERNMENTS. Yet, they are pleading to the WORLDLY RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT for help.
It’s amazing how use of caps in your sentences can make your argument so much more compelling.
@mcfan. They are supposed to be Neutral in politics correct? Yet it is Ok to write letters and have a letter writing “campaign” to express their opinions against the position of the Russian government?
Would hey do the same for other persecuted religions or other persecuted humans if NOT JW’s? Of course not. It is the same as their “contributions” they never help anybody else except a few JW’s if that in disaster situations.DO they help the poor or fee the hungry as the bible says to? It doesn’t seem “NEUTRAl” to me.
@Holy Connoli,
I thought being neutral in politics meant not voting, and not expressing support for any party.
However, if we need support from the government there are resources which the government makes available which we can use. We can request help from the government department.
So isn’t writing to the members of the government like has been requested just the same as asking for assistance from that department? Just asking. It makes sense in my mind.
You think that,s AMAZING?
Show off!
As usual (3rd Reich, Malawi, …), it isn’t the eggheads in their donation-financed, A/C-ed mahogany & marble lakeview Warwick offices who are paying the bill, but the on-site “publisher”-folks. Just unplug Warwick and transplant it right next to the Kremlin in Moscow, and you’ll see some massive JW.Org-policy changes taking place under pressure. What kind of individuals those JW.Org-CEOs are has again nicely been demonstrated by their contemptuous “not available” to the ARC. Or by AntMo3 running away from Trey Bundy as fast as his anointed legs would allow. Or by Papa Lösch telling a court “Nooooooo – I have NOTHING TO DO with Wachtower!” Cowards and Hypocrites – that’s what they are. Oh yeah: The rank&file-publisher must “BOLDY WITNESS” at EVERY occasion, they must be ready to “COURAGEOUSLY DEFEND THE TRUTH”, swallowing ridicule and opposition “for the Lord’s sake”, but those CEOs in their remote luxury offices want to keep their anointed a…s out of the crosshairs – “let those dumb congregation publisher folks take the heat & pay the bill”. Disgusting!
I only hope that news media in countries who have no love
for Putin, don’t feature this story and slant it to the effect
that the Russian President is a tyrant, and has no regard for
human rights.
That would be very disappointing, especially as scant
publicity is given to the controlling methods used by the
JW org, on its “Subjects”, and their violations of human rights.
Sadly balanced reporting is a rarity
As usual (3rd Reich, Malawi, …), it isn’t the eggheads in their donation-financed, A/C-ed mahogany & marble lakeview Warwick offices who are paying the bill, but the on-site “publisher”-folks. Just unplug Warwick and transplant it right next to the Kremlin in Moscow, and you’ll see some massive policy changes taking place under pressure. What kind of individuals those JW.Org-CEOs are has again nicely been demonstrated by their contemptuous “not available” to the ARC. Or by AntMo3 running away from Trey Bundy as fast as his anointed legs would allow. Or by Papa Lösch telling a court “Nooooooo – I have NOTHING TO DO with Wachtower!” Cowards and Hypocrites – that’s what they are. Oh yeah: The rank&file-publisher must “BOLDY WITNESS” at EVERY occasion, they must be ready to “COURAGEOUSLY DEFEND THE TRUTH”, swallowing ridicule and opposition “for the Lord’s sake”, but those CEOs in their remote luxury offices want to keep their anointed a…s out of the crosshairs – “let those dumb congregation publisher folks take the heat & pay the bill”. Disgusting!
Please ignore my last comment, it is a duplicate.
Well, neither of those comments did make it, so, nothing to ignore.
Ignore what?
My 2nd comment below.
How did that get through?
Thanks for the comedic interlude! It lifted my spirits. I love your comments Free Thinker. Well, I would have done . . .
All I can say is the following: Leave this ban in Jehovah’s hands. We need to put our faith in Jehovah.
Respectfully, let me spin this 180 degrees! JWs whine on how they are treated, yet the NWT and interpretations of JW self-made scholars teach everything that happens, happens by the decree of Jehovah, no? So why finger-point at anything other then their Jehovah for their misery.
IMHO
dogstar
P. S. Old school debate on freewill versus destiny.
@sirius,
I thought we teach that Satan is in control of the world and that he brings pressure on God’s people. Jehovah allows this to happen but sometimes there are court victories (Rev 12:16, 17).
Am I missing something? I thought it was Islam that taught everything that happens is the will of God.
they do say that doc, but only on things they can’t change, but touch their purse strings and all hell breaks loose. Money trumps Jehovah.
Letter-writing campaign = self-serving bias! One of the many problems the JW camp has with this type of protest is their own self-alienation from the worldly associations. Suddenly now the GB believes a writing campaign flooding from a single source will sell a body of non-believers? Highly doubtful!!
IMHO
dogstar
Great RUSSIA
OK, let’s try this again:
As usual (3rd Reich, Malawi, …), it isn’t the eggheads in their donation-financed, A/C-ed mahogany & marble lakeview Warwick offices who are paying the bill, but the on-site “publisher”-folks. Just unplug Warwick and transplant it right next to the Kremlin in Moscow, and you’ll see some massive policy changes taking place under pressure. What kind of individuals those JW.Org-CEOs are has again nicely been demonstrated by their contemptuous “not available” to the ARC. Or by AntMo3 running away from Trey Bundy as fast as his anointed legs would allow. Or by Papa Lösch telling a court “Nooooooo – I have NOTHING TO DO with Wachtower!” Cowards and Hypocrites – that’s what they are. Oh yeah: The rank&file-publisher must “BOLDY WITNESS” at EVERY occasion, they must be ready to “COURAGEOUSLY DEFEND THE TRUTH”, swallowing ridicule and opposition “for the Lord’s sake”, but those CEOs in their remote luxury offices want to keep their anointed a…s out of the crosshairs – “let those dumb congregation publisher folks take the heat & pay the bill”. Disgusting!
16 Cylinders! Cadis…two of, even! Man would Horny Mike and The Count have a hey dey with all POWER! TV show Counting cars…The Berret Jackson Auction…not sure if right spelling…JW. ORG….could rake in a good buck for…What did Rudderfjord need all that power for! ? Snazzie cars…snazzie suits…snazzie furniture, don’t attract thrift store shopping gals like whenst we pioneered, frequented the Sally Anne for deals…! ? Value Village…Pembina Hwy, Wpg. Mb. Canada….Wt Cart in the luggage section…Coulda looked all bonefided…dragon along filled with Apostate Lit! Lloyds bk on top rack on display…Left it there til I was done shopping…gone! I was truly disappointed! It is sad when this Horrid religion would allow such atroscities happen to it’s faithful adherets…The Bros. Hitlers time…the Bros. in Malawi…I myself wrote letters at that time to the Govt officials then believing it would help…I am ashamed….Those poor Wts back then…the comment that Wts now a days are not the same, I think is sooo true…the Now-a-days Wts…so many are like their Leaders…fakers..in it for being a part of “the group”…God has little or nothing to do with it. Good point as to “end here” evidence…soooo many good points …thanx to all.
My Dear Daughter just reminded me of why Judge Rutherford wanted to live near San Diego….THE ZOO! Chk movie…Madagascar…Melmon said was best Zoo! Closer to evidence of marvels of ….?
I am surprised JW Org. is not telling their followers to all go into their bunker because armageddon is coming now due to overwhelming evidence of the governments turning on religion
@Freedom,
The Governing Body know that the end is not quite here yet because all of the remnant have not yet been collected. In recent years the Witnesses have had great success in finding members of the remnant still in the world, and with Jehovah’s blessing this search will continue until every one of those tricky little remnant are found.
When we see the intake of remnant drying up, then we know the end is nigh.
@ Ricardo:
Some food for thought about the so called intake of the remnant.
“Despite Watchtower questioning the number of newly anointed and their legitimacy, and describing them as potentially emotionally troubled, the number continues to rise”.
“WHAT ABOUT THE NUMBER OF THOSE PARTAKING AT THE MEMORIAL? In recent years, we have seen an increase in the number of those partaking at the Memorial of Christ’s death. That trend contrasts with the decrease in the number of partakers that we saw for many decades. Should this increase trouble us? No. Let us consider some key factors to keep in mind. “Jehovah knows those who belong to him.” (2 Tim. 2:19) Those taking the count at the Memorial cannot judge who truly have the heavenly hope. The number of partakers includes those who mistakenly think that they are anointed. Some who at one point started to partake of the emblems later stopped. Others may have mental or emotional problems that lead them to believe that they will rule with Christ in heaven. Therefore, the number of partakers does not accurately indicate the number of anointed ones left on earth.” Watchtower 2016 Jan study ed pp.25-26
“Memorial partakers. This is the number of baptized individuals who partake of the emblems at the Memorial worldwide. Does this total represent the number of anointed ones on earth? Not necessarily. A number of factors — including past religious beliefs or even mental or emotional imbalance — might cause some to assume mistakenly that they have the heavenly calling. We thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know.” Watchtower 2011 Aug 15 p.22
“Over the years some, even ones newly baptized, have suddenly begun to partake. In a number of cases, after a while they acknowledged that this was an error. Some have recognized that they partook as an emotional response to perhaps physical or mental strain. But they came to see that they really were not called to heavenly life. There is every reason to believe that the number of anointed ones will continue to decline as advanced age and unforeseen occurrences end their earthly lives.” Watchtower 1996 Aug 15 p.31
It is only a matter of time before the doctrines of the Great Crowd and 144,000 remnant are similarly overhauled. As discussed at 144,000, the concept that only 144,000 go to heaven is flawed. To say that in the 2000 years since Jesus death there were only 144,000 true Christians, of which a third were followers of the Watchtower Society, is conceited at best. Likewise, the Watchtower doctrine regarding the great crowd and the other sheep is also unscriptural. The large number of Witnesses leaving and the increasing number of memorial partakers is indication that members are no longer confident in Watchtower doctrine.
It is logical that the number claiming to be anointed would rise once the restriction on new partakers was somewhat lifted. Jesus set the example of drinking wine and eating bread as observance of his sacrifice and said for his followers to “Keep doing this in remembrance of me.” (Luke 22:15-19) Some Witnesses have felt distressed that refusing to partake of the emblems during Jesus memorial is akin to rejection of the Ransom sacrifice. Furthermore, the New Testament shows that a follower of Jesus needs to be anointed or born again to enter the kingdom.
Although the Watchtower tries to dismiss such requirement on the basis that most modern day Christians belong to an earthly Great Crowd, this doctrine is based on a shaky foundation that collapses with the minimal examination.
The doctrine that only 144,000 go to heaven, and the claim that this number was fully selected in 1935, brings to mind Jesus’ words of condemnation to first century teachers.
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.” Matthew 23:13
It is difficult not to make a direct comparison to the teachings of Watchtower’s Governing Body.
https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/memorial-partakers.php
Surely the ‘king of the North’ is a reasonable man?
Dear Mr Putin,
Please don’t ban the Witnesses because we will be forced to say the Great Tribulation has arrived. Nothing will happen and we will look like dorks.
Yours……
I believe this letter writing jazz is bound to do those people in Russia harm, just like it did in the Second World War in Germany. It is a setup no doubt, a false situation to make Jehovah’s Witnesses suffer again while those elitists in their ivory towers command the rank and file to ‘obey Jehovah’ when they are really just obeying men and for what? For nothing.
If they threaten Poutin like they did Hitler with any harm then that will just prove to the authorities how wakko and dangerous they are. Poutin is only proctecting the people. Jehovah’s Witnesses have been in Russia long enough to have shown their true colours. Plus for sure the Russian authorities are aware of all the bad policies that have proved destructive to individuals and families all over the world. It is not an anti-Christian stand. It is an anti-JW stand. I bet they wouldn’t say anything if it was a Scientology ban. What’s the difference? They are both cults.
Damn right they wouldn’t say anything if it were a Scientology ban, Meredith, and notice how no other religions are coming out in support of WT on this. I guess religions don’t work like that. The less competition in the marketplace, the better. Just like commerce.
Scams!… the whole lot, oh, except for mine.
Wouldn’t it seem strange if the Mormons started a letter writing campaign for the Witnesses, though? How would the Mormons know if we even wanted them to write letters? And if they were asked to write letters, could the Witnesses claim Jehovah gave the victory?
I mean, it would seem strange for one religion to suddenly poke its nose into the business of another religion, especially one with as much confidence as the Witnesses. Wouldn’t other religions just pull back and say, “Let’s see if Jehovah saves them”?
I looked up reasons for the ban. Some of the articles were written by authors in different Christian denominations. They were all against it. Not one person I read was for the ban.
Members of Bethel used to attend organized events, set up through members of the United Nations. There were two groups. You could look them up on JW Facts. The attending members represented various religions, from Hinduism to Christian denominations. So, it is possible WT might call on some of these religions for help, since it previously used to work with them lobbying for religious freedoms.
Hi Friends. I’ve read several of your comments. I don’t wish to challenge any of your opinions, or feelings, about this ban. I don’t wish to express my opinion about it in this comment either. But please consider one important point. Here it is:
If Cedars had written his articles expressing an opinion of exuberance and hopefulness that The JW org be banned in Russia then how do you think any active and believing JWs who read his site would react to those?
Even if he agrees with some of your comments, but I don’t imply he does, isn’t it smarter for him to bite is upper lip and not express personal animosity for the JW organization in Russia in this situation?
I think you know from my past comments that I’m not saying this to butter up to Cedars. Rather don’t you think the outcome, that the impact of his articles will be more effective if he doesn’t show a hostile attitude toward JWs that are in a dangerous situation? I know its the org we’re talking about, not the rank and file. But in the minds of most rank and file members there is no separation. Most JWs consider themselves as members of the org.
Additionally many witnesses will empathize with their brothers and sisters around the world. I remember the incidents in Malawi jails, the tying of naked brothers and sisters together by their pubic hairs to try and stimulate intercourse. I still remember because when I read of those incidents tears were brought to my eyes, to comprehend the cruelty done to those brothers and sisters. If Cedars were to write articles agreeing with bans that will result in suffering for JW members, please realize the effect those might have on current JW’s who read here.
Best wishes to you all!
Cedars did a better job than I think I could have done in his position.