David Splane grapples with the "overlapping generation" teaching in a new video
David Splane grapples with the “overlapping generation” teaching in a new video

The September JW Broadcasting episode is now available on tv.jw.org, and for any avid follower of goings-on at Watchtower this month’s offering from the ‘faithful and discreet slave’ is a must-watch.

Governing Body member David Splane addresses his audience on one of the many subjects best swept under the rug by Watchtower – the incomprehensible “overlapping generation” teaching.

Simply put, this teaching (which first appeared in the April 15, 2010 Watchtower) is a hastily-contrived get-out-of-jail-free card for the failed 1914 “this generation” teaching.

For decades Watchtower publications insisted that Armageddon was imminent because, they argued, the generation of anointed Witnesses (who believed they were going to heaven) who witnessed and understood the events of 1914 would not die out before Armageddon arrived.

This claim was based on Matthew 24:34, where Jesus told his followers that the generation that witnessed various apocalyptic signs would not die out until all his words, including the “great tribulation” (the prelude to Armageddon), came true.

So certain was Watchtower of this claim that it even had it included in its masthead for the Awake! magazine…

awake-page-4-generation-masthead-oct-1995-tn

That is, until they quietly changed the masthead to read as follows…

awake-page-4-masthead-nov-1995-tn

Increasingly it became obvious that Watchtower’s self-imposed time limit on Armageddon had expired, because too much time had passed since 1914 for there to be any survivors among Jehovah’s Witnesses old enough to have memories of the outbreak of World War I. In fact, at the time of writing in September 2015, only 50 individuals older than 110 years old are known to still be alive.

“New light” was called for, and in 1995 and 2008 the organization made various stabs at squaring the circle. Paul Grundy has done a great job of documenting these fluctuating “understandings” on his JWfacts resource.

The most recent solution, as proposed by Watchtower in 2010 (and regurgitated by Splane in the above clip), is to essentially embellish Jesus’ words by suggesting that “this generation” doesn’t have to be just one generation, but can be two.

The first “group” of “this generation” would witness and understand the events of 1914, and the second group would be those who were born before the last individuals in the first group died (hence an “overlapping” generation).

If you don’t understand this, it is not due to any failure on your part. It is because it doesn’t make sense. The teaching rides roughshod over the English language, redefining what “generation” means, and relying on the audience to willfully bypass their logical thinking skills by asserting the incomprehensible as indisputable truth.

After all, if you can arbitrarily insist that a generation can be composed of two groups, why not have three, four, five – on into infinity? The word “generation” quickly loses all meaning.

The wisest course of action for Watchtower would have been to either distance itself from the “overlapping generation” teaching as a well-meaning slip-up (perhaps by arguing “this generation” was figurative rather than literal), or ignore the matter altogether.

Instead, the Governing Body apparently concluded that a 12-minute video presentation rehashing the teaching, complete with diagram and stick pointer, was just what the doctor ordered.

Their mistake is an inevitable byproduct of their delusion and bullish devotion to their own contrived dogma. It is, to my mind, further proof that the Governing Body are not cynical con-men but really do believe their own nonsense – and expect us to believe it too. Otherwise, they would have steered clear of the subject entirely, and spoken about something more compelling and universally appealing.

In addition to this obvious faux pas, I am also delighted at David Splane’s performance, which wreaked of cheesiness and insincerity…

As a side note – Splane is among three Governing Body members (together with Herd and Losch) who have apparently opted to deliver their JW Broadcasting episodes alongside “helpers” from the various Governing Body committees. The other Governing Body members (Lett, Morris, Sanderson and Jackson) tend to appear by themselves. I can’t help but question Splane’s decision to appear with a co-host, since he is in my view one of the more competent, persuasive speakers on the Governing Body. His uneasy interactions with his co-host only serve to undo the forcefulness of his individual presentation.

A costly mistake

When JW Broadcasting was first announced 11 months ago I said at the time it was great news. The worst thing the Governing Body could possibly do was reveal themselves to their doting followers. It is far easier to respect and admire your leaders when you can’t see or hear them. Having them thrusted at your TV screen or computer monitor in all their bumbling, arrogant, senile, jewelry-flashing glory changes the whole dynamic.

Yes, we have seen some extremely potent pieces of indoctrination designed to pull on the heart strings and appeal to people’s emotions. The standard episode will feature at least one visually appealing interview segment with powerful imagery and stirring music, in which a loyal Witness tears up as he or she relates how Jehovah’s hand has come to their rescue against all odds.

I will continue to do my best to expose these clearly coercive methods in my JW Broadcasting rebuttal videos. But I am growing increasingly confident that to any sincere, intellectually honest Witness capable of rudimentary reasoning skills, no rebuttals are needed. The delusion, absurdity and self-indulgence speaks for itself.

 

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Further reading…

389 thoughts on “David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)

  • September 12, 2015 at 6:53 am
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    I feel so good to realize how false this religion is.Just thinking of how to exit since i have family members in.

    • September 12, 2015 at 9:38 pm
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      @Freedom
      Leaving is pretty simple if you are a man… Just slowly stop attending the indoctrination sessions slowly.. And do not meet with the elders.. Your family (depending on how “devout” (really brainwashed)they are) can still associate with you without any consequences.

      My third comment on this thread. The first two didn’t take… Let’s see if this one does…

  • September 12, 2015 at 7:38 am
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    Hi Lloyd!

    Another good article. I’ve just seen D. Splane’s video on JW Broadcasting. It’s quite surprising to hear that all the actual GB members are contemporary of the first generation, included Mark SANDERSON. M. SANDERSON is 50 this year: he was born in 1965… Does that mean he was anointed in his early twenties? At least , before 1992?

    • September 12, 2015 at 1:23 pm
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      I was thinking the same. I wonder if his life story is written down anywhere? I think he grew up in the San Diego area and served in Newfoundland, Canada before coming to Brooklyn. Not married as far as I can tell.

  • September 12, 2015 at 8:54 am
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    Do not put your trust in the sons of men. Well theres no use even trying to use the bible to reason with most jws, deut 18 20 to 22 erm false prophets.Just watch there eyes glaze over.So sad.

  • September 12, 2015 at 9:48 am
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    David Splane, his six Governing Body associates and other helpers have been feeding us some very complicated spiritual food lately. Honest hearted ones can appreciate what a loving provision we were given when David Splane provided us with a detailed explanation of the overlapping generations. This was indeed spiritual food delivered at the proper time.

    I have always been curious as to how the spirit anointed Governing Body members receive the heavenly guidance they so lovingly share with us. I finally found the answer. This heavenly guidance is communicated directly to the anointed remnant through angels:

    “These angels are invisible to human eyes and are there to carry out the orders of the Lord. No doubt they first hear the instruction which the Lord issues to his remnant and then these invisible messengers pass such instruction on to the remnant. The facts show that the angels of the Lord with him at his temple have been thus rendering sacred service unto the remnant since 1919.” (Vindication, 1932, vol.3, p.250)

    “The remnant do not hear audible sounds, because such is not necessary. Jehovah has provided his own good way to convey thoughts to the minds of his anointed ones. To all on the outside of the organization of Jehovah his is a secret organization.” (Preparation, 1933, p.64)

    So, there you go. We can rest assured that “the facts show” angelic direction is the source of all Watchtower prophesies and doctrine. The first spirit anointed generation would recognize Christ’s invisible presence in 1914 and this first generation would be followed by another spirit anointed generation which would overlap the first generation.

    • September 12, 2015 at 5:43 pm
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      @ScotWm, according to the Revelation It’s Grand Climax At Hand! on page 125, the Watchtower doesn’t really know for sure where they get their “spiritual” guidance from. This is the way it read, starting on page 124 under the Subheading “The Great Crowd Makes It’s Appearance”:

      “From the time of the apostle John and on into the Lord’s day, anointed Christians were puzzled as to the identity of the great crowd. It is fitting, then, that one of the 24 elders, representing anointed ones already in heaven, should stir John’s thinking by raising a pertinent question. “And in response one of the elders said to me: ‘These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from?’ So right away I said to him: ‘My lord, you are the one that knows.'” (Revelation 7:13,14a) Yes, the elder could locate the answer and give it to John. This suggests that resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today.”

      If you pay attention to that paragraph, it is saying that there were already anointed ones in heaven and they “might” have stirred John’s thinking when he wrote what he did at that scripture at Revelation and that when the anointed today are resurrected to heaven, that they “may” be involved in the communicating of divine truths today.

      So, who knows where those “stirrings of divine truth” are coming from since the Society says “may” be involved. They don’t say it’s coming from angels in that paragraph.

      • September 12, 2015 at 8:17 pm
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        RE: “@ScotWm, according to the Revelation It’s Grand Climax At Hand! on page 125, the Watchtower doesn’t really know for sure where they get their “spiritual” guidance from.”

        It is interesting that Watchtower leaders would admit that they don’t know the source of their spiritually-channeled false prophesies. It must be a real challenge to determine where the divinely-inspired guidance ends and the hallucinations begin.

        Joseph Rutherford claimed that once the Lord arrived at his temple in 1918 and gathered together unto himself the chosen ones, guidance from the holy spirit would no longer be necessary because Christ would be present among his chosen ones. Rutherford then claimed that communication with Jesus was relayed to him and his anointed brethren by angels or ministering spirits. After Rutherford’s death, Watchtower leaders once again claimed that they are guided by the holy spirit.

        Rather than elaborate on the pathetic ramblings of a totally-discredited former Watchtower leader, the website below has a very good analysis of the active force that has been guiding the Watchtower:

        http://freeminds.org/psych/activfor.htm

      • September 12, 2015 at 9:59 pm
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        RE: “@ScotWm, according to the Revelation It’s Grand Climax At Hand! on page 125, the Watchtower doesn’t really know for sure where they get their “spiritual” guidance from.”

        It is interesting that Watchtower leaders would admit that they don’t know the source of their spiritually-inspired false prophesies. It must be a real challenge to determine where the divine guidance ends and the hallucinations begin.

        Joseph Rutherford claimed that once the Lord arrived at his temple in 1918 and gathered together unto himself the chosen ones, guidance from the holy spirit would no longer be necessary because Christ would be present among his chosen ones. Rutherford then claimed that communication with Jesus was relayed to him and his anointed brethren by angels or ministering spirits. After Rutherford’s death, Watchtower leaders once again claimed that they are guided by the holy spirit.

        Rather than elaborate on the pathetic ramblings of a totally-discredited former Watchtower leader, the website below has a very good analysis of the active force that has been guiding the Watchtower:

        http://freeminds.org/psych/activfor.htm

        • September 13, 2015 at 3:10 am
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          “The remnant do not hear audible sounds, because such is not necessary. Jehovah has provided his own good way to convey thought to the minds of his anointed ones. To all on the outside of the organization of Jehovah his is a secret organization. ibid., p. 64”

          ScotWm, I cut and pasted that quote from the article you posted and find it quite telling.

          From what I gather from that quote is the they don’t need to hear voices but whatever comes to their mind is coming from God??? That seems really convenient. It sounds an awful lot like how Joseph Smith got his information from Jesus. Nobody was a witness to the event and he lost his evidence but as long as he said it happened, that is good enough for eighteen million Mormons. The story is so implausible that there’s a popular play about it here in the U.S. called the “Book of Mormon” and it’s quite funny from what I have heard about it.

  • September 12, 2015 at 11:21 am
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    The one thing that bugs me about 1914 was IIRC it was predicted before then that Jesus would kick out Satan and begin his rule. World War I started presumably because Satan was pissed and “closer” to the earth. Coincidence?

    • September 13, 2015 at 4:48 am
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      Kevin,

      The WTBTS used to state that Satan and his buddies were cast out in October. WW1 started in August.

      WW1 could have started the year before, but a compromise that satisfied no one was reached.

      No one has definitive proof that any of these “spirit creatures” exist.

      So, yes, it is a coincidence.

      Peace be with you, Excelsior!

  • September 12, 2015 at 11:47 am
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    JWs were an apostate schism from the Bible Students, or
    Russellites. Enforced by the bully boy tactics of the big judge.
    ( That’s Rutherford, not the other big judge )

    But one thing common to both groups was the fixation on the
    year 1914, which resulted in embarrassment for each of them.

    Ray Franz stated, “For 30 years they were looking forward to
    1914, and now for 80 years they have been looking back at it.
    ( add 21 years since Ray’s statement.)

    The looking forward was to the “End” of all trouble in that year
    not the “Beginning”, ( Zion’s WT July 15, 1894 p226 ),
    History proves that was a complete failure, despite claiming
    “These are God’s dates not ours”.

    The looking back to 1914 has been a reversal of Russell’s
    teaching. Now 1914 is claimed to be the “Beginning” of
    of trouble, ( Not the end of it as predicted by Russell ). The
    trouble is foretold to end within the generation of people
    alive in that key year.

    That generation has long gone, even many of the following
    generation ( To which I belong,) have already handed their
    chips in. I’m still hanging on at 84.

    You can look at that date, forwards or backwards. or from
    any angle you like. It has no meaning or relevance to Bible
    prophecy. I’m really sorry if you’ve invested a great deal in
    It, You’ve lost your stake, the horse was a nag.

    • September 13, 2015 at 12:16 pm
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      bless you Ted 84 and still fighting fit good on you bro gives us all hope love and peace ruthlee

  • September 12, 2015 at 1:15 pm
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    Strange how an organization can spend decades condemning “Christendom” for “incomprehensible” and confusing doctrines such as the Trinity, and not see the irony of teaching their own convoluted dogma.

  • September 12, 2015 at 1:39 pm
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    Lloyd/ Cedars
    I would love to see you do another type of survey.
    Namely, what do you think will be the future of the WT.
    Crumble? In how many years? Limp on? For how many years? Etc. in other words, what do we all predict will be her fate/ future?
    It would be fun.

  • September 12, 2015 at 1:50 pm
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    It’s about time the 7 men in charge of the Borg came clean and admitted they got key teachings wrong! However I won’t be holding my breath as that would make them fallible and PROVE THEY DON’T HAVE HOLY SPIRIT!

  • September 12, 2015 at 4:04 pm
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    Garrett, In anticipation of any possible survey, here’s
    one or two off the cuff thoughts. How about the org
    fragmenting into several schisms.

    Different countries rejecting central control, because of the
    Bizarre and embarrassing stuff that’s coming from there.

    Look at the recent humiliation heaped upon the Australian
    Branch, their policies were indefensible and the elders
    made to look like bumbling fools. How much of that will
    will people stand for.

    I see the org, ditching date fixing and pushing, wars and
    rumours of wars, earthquakes , critical times etc, of which
    there’s a constant supply of material to draw on.
    And as Robert Perez suggested, the mantra will then be.
    Preach and wait on JHVH.

    The bottom has fallen out of the literature business hence
    the squeeze on the bros, to empty their bank accounts and
    hand the cash over to them, even the appeal for the kids
    ice cream money. The internet is killing recruitment so
    revenue will be greatly reduced, leading to a downward
    spiral,

    They could continue for years but but not on the present
    international scale. A realistic option is bankruptcy, from
    which the top brass could still come away well heeled.

    I’ll pipe down now. I’ve probably broken posting requirements.
    So I extend my apologies to Cedars, and every one else.

    • September 13, 2015 at 1:39 pm
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      Michele, Hi, very interesting article you’ve posted there. Maybe the dropping of the loan repayments to the Society has to do with the legal rights of the borrower i.e. the publishers have a legal stake. Can anyone clarify? Cheers and thanks for the link, very useful.

      • September 23, 2015 at 8:47 pm
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        This article blew me away. It just truly closed the deal for me forever with them. Actually the Pedophile cases woke me all the way up, but to know that they confess to being set up just like the Catholics! Wow!

    • September 13, 2015 at 5:20 pm
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      We once gave a large sum of money which was all the money we had when we were very poor for the building of our kingdom hall. We were very new and thought it was the right thing to do at the time. Many of our congregation also gave so much time and money towards this project. I thought it was really strange that we had a special event to dedicate OUR hall to Jehovah or in other words the Watchtower Society.

      We had organised a loan from them and we went through great pains to pay it off. Finally, an old brother decided to pay the loan out. Makes you wonder where they got the money from in the first place to loan it to us. Probably from all the donations which were being amassed annually which were to further the kingdom work. Like this wasn’t furthering the kingdom work? Then why didn’t they just give us the money? If they had it to loan to us then why didn’t they just give it to us instead and save us all the trouble. After all, the Catholic Church pays for churches. The local people don’t. It was just another scam.

    • September 13, 2015 at 6:42 pm
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      Yikes! Such a confusing talk. And this Menlo Park Congregation thing that I read in a link speaking of the hierarchy. It’s so crazy!

    • September 14, 2015 at 12:23 am
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      Yikes, so after putting poor people into debt they then make it a donation to the society. That’s like rent an apartment, rebuilding and refurbishing it, paying all the bills and then getting kicked out!, shameful.

    • September 14, 2015 at 6:49 am
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      E

  • September 12, 2015 at 4:47 pm
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    This David Splane talk was another example of the totally ridiculous and confusing explanations of scripture that the G.B. keep splurting out to their indoctrinated masses.
    The words of the wise man at Proverbs 15:16 seem appropriate, ‘Better is a little in the fear of the Lord than an abundant supply and confusion along with it.’

  • September 12, 2015 at 5:13 pm
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    Michele, just read what you posted, wow!, but even when i showed the old man the proof about the UN membership, all i got back was ”where else would i go”. koolaid anyone.

    • September 12, 2015 at 5:48 pm
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      1914 ha ha ha,

      When people ask “where would I go? ”
      I respond “back to bed, it’s wonderful!”
      I can’t tell you how much I enjoy sleeping in on the weekends now.

      Additionally I use the illustration when people don’t know where to go is to ask- “if you found out you were drinking poison would you keep drinking from it just because you don’t know what else to drink?
      Step one: stop drinking. Step 2 look for a clean water source. These days I choose to drink from Logic, Love and Free Will. I follow principles and facts, not men.

      • September 12, 2015 at 11:04 pm
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        @Garrett . GOOD ANSWER! Stop drinking the Poison !! I LIKE the ILLUSTRATION!! I shall give you GOOD on your theocratic Slip!! No need to give you ‘W’ or ‘I’ . You are Qualified to go on to your next point to work on !!!

      • September 13, 2015 at 4:49 am
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        @Garrett. Excellent response, and it shows how brainwashed they are. They are saying “I can’t think for myself, so I will stay with what I’ve got”. Ludicrous!

      • September 13, 2015 at 5:22 am
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        @Garret, I love your illustration and I will remember that the next time anybody tries to tell me that again.

      • September 13, 2015 at 8:43 am
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        Garrett – great point. I know it is a point used in one of the public talks. Nice way to turn it around.

      • October 7, 2015 at 10:43 pm
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        Garrett, I love that Logic, Love and Free Will slogan. Isn’t that the same as “God made us in his image”. I refuse to allow anyone else inside my brain to indoctrinate me for the remainder of my years.

    • September 13, 2015 at 5:15 am
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      1914 ha ha ha,

      This is a classic WTBTS misquote! The WTBTS paraphrase John 6:67,68 and replace Jesus with “Jehovah God’s spirit directed Organisation”.

      A textbook example of cult manipulation!

      The context of this verse shows that Jesus was pretty poor at explaining things to his early disciples, using a poor illustration that deeply offended and shocked many of his erstwhile followers. Many decided to leave at this point.

      Jesus asks the 12 if they will leave him too. Peter answers by asking Jesus a question WHOM shall we go away to, Lord? YOU have sayings of everlasting life,”

      The WTBTS have been able to substitute themselves with Jesus himself.

      If any of you are still Christian, then leaving the WTBTS is NOT leaving Jesus Christ. Not by any means.

      There are many examples of the WTBTS butchering the bible in this manner.

      Peace be with you, Excelsior!

      • September 15, 2015 at 10:58 pm
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        Excelsior, hear hear, you are absolutely right.

  • September 12, 2015 at 6:00 pm
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    Stepping back from the tunnel vision I have on the Org from my own long, embarrassing history of total acceptance of its preposterous belief system, I look out at nearly an entire world of people who are also guilty of their own disconnects from reality in one way or the other. Clearly, the reality we choose (or that is chosen for us) usually has more to do with things like our upbringing, mental state, gullibility, and education level than it does a hard look at facts and a determination to find proper evidence for what we are to believe. With that being the case, I suspect that the Org will continue to survive for a very long time. What I now happily believe is a realistic hope, though, is that it will continue to decrease in growth and will eventually begin to shrink in size. As WE know, the internet will NOT be the a BOON to the Org. It will be the bane of its existense. But, as long as there are a few people in the Org still willing to shovel out clumps of the usual crap, there will be a few people out there willing to let it stick when they’re hit with it.

    A dear JW friend of mine who has no idea that I have been in total disagreement with him for the last several years recently told me about the convention he just attended. He said there were “OVER SIX THOUSAND” in attendance. And there were “TWENTY SIX BAPTIZED!”. He was genuinely trying to encourage me. He has no idea how encouraging those numbers truly were to me.

    Of course, this comment is in reply to Garrett’s excellent suggestion of a survey regarding the fate of the Org. Let me also add the same apologies found at the end of Ted’s comment, along with all of the plagues of Revelation if my comment was too far off the beaten path or inappropriate in any way. I’m NEW here! (I’m gonna ride that excuse for as long as possible, lol…)

    • September 12, 2015 at 10:59 pm
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      @JB Reezner . You may be new here.BUT you show GREAT INSIGHT in your comments & much WISDOM as to why normally intelligent people fall for the GB Rubbish… EMOTIONALLY VULNERABLE is usually one of the main reasons.

      • September 13, 2015 at 8:38 am
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        Thank you very much for your kind words, Pickled brain! And I can certainly attest to emotional vulnerability frequently being a major factor in falling for hooey. My dear departed mother accepted the JW message as a teenager during a time of great vulnerability. She later passed it on to me. I don’t blame her at all. I understand. It’s just a very sad situation. As we all know, it’s very difficult for a child to know something is untrue when a parent (or parents) is saying it’s true.

        • September 13, 2015 at 9:33 am
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          @JB Reezner. You are a KIND & EMPATHETIC person UNLIKE the 7 CHARLATANS in BROOKLYN who SEPARATE JWs from their families if they DARE to DISAGREE with ANY DOCTRINE which A CHILD Might have Got BAPTISED at 11,12,14 etc. who didn’t fully comprehend the consequences!!

    • September 13, 2015 at 2:16 am
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      Excellent comments JB – I am a realist as well – this corporation will still be around in future – just less members who can remember the history and more faders and judicial commitee victims who suffer the lack of love and mind control.

      • September 13, 2015 at 10:35 am
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        Thank you, Kaput. Yes, sad but true.

  • September 12, 2015 at 6:10 pm
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    Bro franz wil be shown on the graph as fwf, what it should be is wtf.Sorry couldnt let that one slip past.lol:)

  • September 13, 2015 at 3:09 am
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    How true when you said…”The worst thing the Governing Body could possibly do was reveal themselves to their doting followers. It is far easier to respect and admire your leaders when you can’t see or hear them.”

    As Mark Twain shrewdly observed too …. “It’s better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt.”

  • September 13, 2015 at 4:55 am
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    The Menlo Park case revisted. The WT has developed religious “new light” dogma to deal with a legal problem created by the Menlo Park case. The dogma has nothing to do with what Jesus described in Math 24 regarding the FDS. This is the first article that I have seen, that actually deals with a cynical and dishonest manipulation of scripture. The blatant concern for WT wealth and assets is stunning. The fact that they use scripture to connive a result is shocking. If they wanted to get control of assets at least do it in the sphere where it belongs- business and pay the tax.

  • September 13, 2015 at 5:02 am
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    This piece is taken from The Menlo Park case;

    And I say “organization.” I am general counsel for the National Organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses out of Brooklyn, New York. Ordinarily, I wouldn’t be here, but this is one of our 13,000 congregations in the United States. We are a hierarchal religion structured just like the Catholic Church. And when the order from the Pope comes down in the church defrocking a priest and kicking him out, he no longer has any say in any matter in the local parish priest — in the parish.
    Sorry about doing this in bits but I was blocked by a program on the watch for spxxmmers. So I am being careful not to upset the silly thing.

  • September 13, 2015 at 5:14 am
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    Still on Menlo Park Case, What this part explains is why the GB equals the FDS in a legal manoeuvre to keep assets in its hands and away from the ones that paid for their own KHalls This “composite slave” is a made up term created simply for legal reasons. Redefining the “Faithful & Discreet Slave” as solely the Governing Body and not all Anointed individuals closes a legal loophole that was noticed as part of the court cases with the 3 former elders from the Menlo Park Congregation in California.

    Previously, all who saw themselves as “Anointed” had a share in the Watchtower’s Assets as they were legal representatives of “God’s Kingdom on Earth”. But changing the definition of the Faithful & Discreet Slave to just the Governing Body means that all Watchtower’s Assets are now safely in the hands of the small number of individuals who rule the organization from the top down, in a hierarchical fashion, “just like the Catholic Church”.
    So, what they have done is explained a legal loophole in religious doctrine terms in the form of “new light” to stop the R and F from complaining. This is a dishonest manipulation of scripture, but it finally puts flesh on the bones of why the GB and the FDS are now one and the same.

    All of this from the link http://avoidjw.org/2014/12/legally-establishing-watchtower-assets/2/

  • September 13, 2015 at 5:26 am
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    JB Reezner –
    Love your comments.
    We all stayed with the org because we thought it was the ‘truth’.
    Thankfully, through the information highway, we can now find out real truth based on facts and hard evidence, not on Watchtower make believe!
    Good to have you with us!

    • September 13, 2015 at 8:43 am
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      Thank you, Bad Penny! Very good to be here!

  • September 13, 2015 at 6:17 am
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    It gets worse. There is no logic to this teaching and how anyone can be taken in by this explanation goes beyond me. Its all theory and wishful thinking to prop up the failing 1914 teaching. By the way the governing body will only love you if you obey and believe every word they say and empty yourself of intellect and emotion. Also they like to receive your money to live in luxury at their new Warwick HQ.

    • September 13, 2015 at 3:18 pm
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      @Alex . You have SUMMED UP THIS UTTER LUNATIC REASONING of the GB Perfectly!!!

  • September 13, 2015 at 9:04 am
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    Hi Garrett, Those weekend sleep in’s. Sheer heavenly bliss !
    nirvana ! No longer having to go out Sunday morning disturbing
    everyone else’s well earned rest. Oh the abuse I’ve had from
    people, rushing downstairs thinking it was something urgent.

    Even on the 25th of Dec, One guy said to me, “Can’t you even
    leave us alone today, ( He didn’t swear though, not on Christmas
    day. )

    The demands made on JWs are unreasonable. Can you vac,
    pioneer during the one holiday of the year you get from work,
    and guilted into doing so with such comments as, “Time is so
    short, any available time not spent preaching, is time stolen from
    JHVH”. And all for what’s proved to be a Mirage, a fantasy.

    Great comments Garrett, and everyone,

  • September 13, 2015 at 10:16 am
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    Here’s a little ditty for you guys. I’ll dedicate it to Pickled brain. Your hilarious comment earlier in this thread about tying The Who’s song My Generation in with all of the GB’s generation nonsense inspired me! This has probably already been done before, but, what the heck… Sung to the tune of the GREAT Who song, “Baba O’Riley” (Much better if you listen to the actual song as you read it! https://youtu.be/gY5rztWa1TM)…

    Blah Blah Un’Likely (Witness Wasteland)

    Out here in the field
    I preach, full of zeal
    And with my “facts”, no proof is given
    I know that “new light”
    Ain’t always right
    But I’m undaunted, when it isn’t

    Don’t cry, the end is nigh
    For all the Witness wasteland

    Raymond* take my hand
    And help me understand
    Expose the liars who filled this bag on my shoulder
    The exodus is here!
    The web has made it clear!
    Let’s get to leavin’, before we get much older

    Witness wasteland
    It’s such a Witness wasteland
    Witness wasteland, oh yeah
    Witness wasteland
    My time was WASTED!

    *Alternatively, “Cedars”, “Grundy”, etc. :)

  • September 13, 2015 at 10:43 am
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    Here’s a little ditty for you guys. I’ll dedicate it to Pickled brain. Your hilarious comment earlier in this thread about tying The Who’s song My Generation in with all of the GB’s generation nonsense inspired me! This has probably already been done before, but, what the heck… Sung to the tune of the GREAT Who song, “Baba O’Riley” (Much better if you listen to the actual song as you read it! youtu.be/gY5rztWa1TM)…

    Blah Blah Un’Likely (Witness Wasteland)

    Out here in the field
    I preach, full of zeal
    And with my “facts”, no proof is given
    I know that “new light”
    Ain’t always right
    But I’m undaunted, when it isn’t

    Don’t cry, the end is nigh
    For all the Witness wasteland

    Raymond* take my hand
    And help me understand
    Expose the liars who filled this bag on my shoulder
    The exodus is here!
    The web has made it clear!
    Let’s get to leavin’, before we get much older

    Witness wasteland
    It’s such a Witness wasteland
    Witness wasteland, oh yeah
    Witness wasteland
    My time was WASTED!

    *Alternatively, “Cedars”, “Grundy”, etc. :)

    • September 13, 2015 at 11:11 am
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      Excellent Reez!
      I sung it in my head to your words.

      My favorite bands are Zeppelin and Sabbath.
      I’ll eagerly wait for your next musical release based on those bands.

      • September 13, 2015 at 12:58 pm
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        Thanks Garrett, and challenge accepted! Zep happens to be my favorite band too.

        Ramble On (youtu.be/uF_XI5pCxlo)

        Be-leeefs are fallin’, all around
        It’s time I was on my way
        Thanks to you, my stunted mind
        Is dizzy every day
        But now it’s time for me to go
        The internet lights my way
        So take this guilt and pain, ‘n your millennial reign,
        And shove it up your “A”!

        Because I’ve grown so tired
        But I know I’ve got one thing I got to do…

        Ramble on!
        Your full of crap, and it’s a trap
        I stayed too long!
        All around the world, your phony pearls
        Have been a plague!
        I’m finally brave enough to say
        I’ll ramble on!
        Could it be? I’m finally free!

        Got no more time for spreadin’ “truth”
        My time turned-in is all gone
        And though I rang those bells a thousand times
        Now, I’M the not-at-home

        Ramble on!
        Now’s the time, the time is now
        I stayed too long!
        I really cried -Hell, I nearly DIED
        I can’t stay!
        There ain’t no way skinny pants are (that) gay
        I gotta ramble on!
        This Witness thing ain’t what it seems

        I ain’t tellin’ no more lies

        Mine’s a tale that must be told
        My FREEDOM I hold dear
        How years ago, in days of old
        When MAGIC filled the air
        T’was in the early days of mankind,
        …ehh, I better leave it there…

        No skinny jeans wearers were harmed in the making of this song.

        • September 13, 2015 at 9:48 pm
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          Brilliant! You have a gift.
          Why don’t you put those to the original songs and do a You Tube video and further the cause?!

          • September 13, 2015 at 10:07 pm
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            Thanks! I’ve noodled around on the guitar and keyboard for many years, but as for my singing, let’s not talk about it… But if anybody working for the ex-JW cause ever does want to use or improve upon anything I do here, they certainly have my blessing.

        • September 15, 2015 at 6:51 am
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          Perhaps the obvious choice for the next one would be ‘My Generation’.
          I am a Deep Purple, Zepplin, Cream, fan. Brothers would ‘Rush’ around to see me if they found me watching ‘The Wall – Floyd’. Oh and I like Maiden too which has never gone down well. Maybe it was Bruce in his tight pants….

          • September 17, 2015 at 5:26 pm
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            Absolutely, Tara! Pickled brain’s suggestion about My Generation is what got all of my nonsense started.

            Nice taste in music. I lean less toward Purple and Maiden, but definitely all others mentioned are favorites of mine. Add to those Journey, Van Halen, Yes, Doors, Stones, Beatles, Wings, The BeeGees, okay, I’ve admitted too much…

    • September 13, 2015 at 3:13 pm
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      @JB Reezner. YOU DEFINITELY HAVE STYLE!!
      Before I came into the ‘TRUTH????’ At 23 my Favourite Band was The Who & can anyone out there believe this BUT I THREW ALL MY… WORLDLY….???? RECORDS Away when the Advice from The Most Holy ??was ‘If Jesus was in the room, Would you play & Listen to those Records!! As ROGER DALTREY Sang as the Lead Singer my Favourite Song …. ‘WON’T GET FOOLED AGAIN ‘!!!!! Absolutely Brilliant Song! I think Every Ex-JW should play it to themselves!!!

      • September 13, 2015 at 3:40 pm
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        TRAGIC!! But I can relate. I made similar sacrifices. Zeppelin, Van Halen, Prince (yes, PRINCE), ended up being silenced for many years in my life. But they’ve all come back with a VENGEANCE!

        Won’t Get Fooled Again crossed my mind before I made my little ditty. But, as you suggest, the words are already PERFECT and very relevant to ex-JW’s! One of the greatest songs EVER, as many Who songs are.

        • September 13, 2015 at 9:40 pm
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          I too enjoy listening to the heavier side of music (always have really, but was just guilted by the ex wife to only play it while I was alone) I will never forget the horrified texts that I got for playing Lamb of God on the stereo.. Put a lid on it lady!

      • September 15, 2015 at 11:12 pm
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        Me too. And you would never believe what I had. Besides Led Zepellin, the Doors, the Stones, the Beatles, I had the Woodstock Triple album. My husband was really furious. It was mine but boy did I regret it. It’s probably worth quite a lot of money now. And also ‘Who’s Next?’ went out the door to the tip too. What a waste?

    • September 15, 2015 at 11:09 pm
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      “We’re all wasted!” I was only listening to that album yesterday. JB Reezner, you must be the same vintage as me possibly. I just sang it in my head to Baba O’Reilly and laughed. That is very clever and who would have ever thought of pinning that song to the feelings felt when you abandon the Truth? Welcome.

      • September 17, 2015 at 5:40 pm
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        Thanks, Meredith J. I enjoyed working that up. And my heart goes out to you for the loss of some great albums. Get on eBay and get ’em back! The 3 LP Woodstock set is not as expensive there as you might think. :)

  • September 13, 2015 at 11:45 am
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    Let’s just assume that they are right about the overlapping generation. (Can’t believe I just wrote that, but bear with me!).
    We are supposed to believe that Jesus said ‘this generation won’t pass away’ but that he meant this could be around 130 years or more. Why would Jesus say keep on the watch if it really wasn’t that urgent? Why give a warning at all if the time period was going to be that long? In the literal fulfilment, the gap was 37 years. How could the secondary fulfilment be 3 to 4 times as long? Why the urgency, if that’s how Jesus really meant it?
    Sorry, GB, I simply can’t see the second fulfilment panning out like that. Maybe any JWs visiting this site can ex-splane.

    • September 13, 2015 at 1:52 pm
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      Very active JW here, and nope there is no justification for this circle jerk. At today’s meeting the Watchtower actually went on and on about the curses that await today’s false prophets that live at the expense of the suckers that believed in them. I just stared the conductor in the eye with the biggest grin constantly nodding my head. It took everything I had to keep from exploding in laughter. And the comments, oh the simple, simple comments of every simpleton in the room trying to outdo each other in “their” enlightenment, having understood this new light. The article repeated over and over ” although we aren’t positive” and any number of attendees would shoot their hands up to say “yes, yes I see it now and it was right there all along.” These people are hopelessly brainwashed, the broadcast says one thing and the magazine says another and no one catches on. This particular article just casually changed the meaning of a bunch of JW doctrine and everyone is so used to the wheel of fortune prophecies in JW literature that no one bats an eye, they are trully numb to the greater meaning of all this.

      • September 13, 2015 at 3:27 pm
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        @Robertperez67. I was sitting in the Watchtower Study today THINKING the SAME THING AS YOU !! HOW IN THE HELL CAN HUMAN BEINGS BE SO GULLIBLE??? How can anyone FALL FOR THIS EVER CHANGING NEW LIGHT AGAIN!!!!!
        I also have a silly Grin on my face thinking how many in this room are thinking the same as me??

      • September 14, 2015 at 12:59 am
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        hi rob perez me too at the tower yesterday paragraph 4 mentioned the 10 horn giving support to the united nations i HAD to comment that WE should never in no way ever give or be known for giving our support to the united nations there was a silence in the kh it resonated with a few and afterward a bro came up to me and thumbs up we are not daft just biding time ruthlee

        • September 14, 2015 at 3:06 am
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          I am looking at yesterday’s Watchtower “Your Deliverance is Getting Near” and paragraph 10 tells about Gog of Magog from Ezek. 38:10-12 and says Gog of Magog is a coalition of nations and how they are “eager to attack Jehovah’s anointed ones as well as their associates” but if you read what the Watchtower quotes from Ezekiel, it does describe the Watchtower corporation when it says of Gog of Magog “It will be to take much spoil and plunder, to attack the devastated places that are now inhabited and a people regathered from the nations, who ARE ACCUMULATING WEALTH AND PROPERTY, THOSE LIVING IN THE CENTER OF THE EARTH.”

          I don’t think ordinary Witnesses are the ones accumulating wealth and property but those who it seems to describe to me is the Watchtower Corporation, not the rank and file.

          Also paragraph 16 also talks about Gog of Magog but it just says Gog (the Bible says Gog of Magog though) and they again reference Ezekiel but the Watchtower in that paragraph says “shortly before the remaining ones of the 144,000 are taken to heaven, Gog will attack God’s people.”

          What the Watchtower didn’t do was to take the reader to Revelation chapter 20:8 where the Bible actually tells about when Gog of Magog will attack God’s people and that is because verse 7 says it’s as soon as the thousand years have ended.

          Leaving out Revelation chapter 20:8 was on purpose and that was so that people wouldn’t look it up and see that it is not “shortly before the remaining ones of the 144,000 are taken to heaven” but it’s after the thousand years had ended.

          That was deceitful and telling. It tells me that the Society are all really stupid or evil.

          • September 14, 2015 at 2:57 pm
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            @Anonymous. JUST PLAIN EVIL!! Let’s be Generous & Call a Spade a Spade… You are Right about Gog & Rev.20 v8

      • September 15, 2015 at 6:45 am
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        I had a ‘headache’ and left after the talk.

  • September 13, 2015 at 1:59 pm
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    Today I went to the Sunday morning meeting to make my sister happy. The watchtower study was from the July 15, 2015 magazine. Inside the magazine under – Life Story, Remembering My First Love Has Helped Me to Endure, As told by Anthony Morris he said he served in the Vietnam war and some men he knew were killed and he said Jehovah will bring those young men back to life and they will have a chance to learn the truth about him. Has Jw teaching changed while I was out 21 years ? Does anyone know ? My sister said she is confused. I thought worldly people will be destroyed. Is there a change in their teaching ?

    • September 13, 2015 at 2:48 pm
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      The belief is still that the vast majority of non-Witnesses will have their guts stomped out, tomorrow, during Armageddon. As for people who have died, the belief is that the vast majority of them will be resurrected due to being ‘acquitted from their sin’ (because they died) -Rom 6:7. After the resurrection, THEY get a do-over. But the poor non-JW men, women, children, little Baptist grandmas and peace-loving Buddhists alive when Armageddon comes are simply out of luck. Bird food.

  • September 13, 2015 at 3:37 pm
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    Frustratingly, I have never come across a single JW in my area willing or able to talk about the whole generation thingy. Just an innocent question like “how would you explain the overlapping generation if asked?” makes them visibly uncomfortable and they change the subject. And why wouldn’t it, it’s total bollocks and they know it.
    Why would Jesus deliver a message/prophecy so cryptic, so convoluted and ridiculous when the eternal life of the hearer depends upon their understanding and acceptance of it?

    Give it up WT, admit it already, the “generation” teaching is dead in the water.

    • September 13, 2015 at 8:43 pm
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      You’re logic is rock solid, pearlsB4swine. I wish that was enough. When I asked a friend who is an active Witness that very question about what he says to people regarding the overlapping generation teaching, he said ‘Nooo no no, I don’t go near that thing.’ He understands how convoluted it is, and sometimes we have what I think are productive discussions. But sadly, he then goes to a meeting at the Hall and his brain completely RESETS back into harmony with the Org’s indoctrination. I’ve seen it happen several times now. When you’re finally on the outside looking back in at that phenomenon, it is truly a bizarre thing. Incredibly disturbing and sad.

  • September 13, 2015 at 3:51 pm
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    Catalina, I don’t think there’s been a change as to who gets
    resurrections and who doesn’t. They’ve always claimed
    that only “Dead” worldly people will be made alive, sometime
    after Armageddon. But it’s the “Live” worldly ones who will
    be snuffed when the fireworks start.

    On that basis, if you’re in any doubt as to which category
    you’re in, Getting knocked down by a bus is your best
    option. It’s so reassuring when there’s someone who can
    tell you exactly what God is thinking. Makes life much
    simpler,– I think !

  • September 13, 2015 at 4:06 pm
    Permalink

    Frustratingly, I have never come across a single JW in my area willing or able to talk about the whole generation thingy. Just an innocent question like “how would you explain the overlapping generation if asked?” makes them visibly uncomfortable and they change the subject. And why wouldn’t it, it makes no sense and they know it.
    Why would Jesus deliver a message/prophecy so cryptic, so convoluted and ridiculous when the eternal life of the hearer depends upon their understanding and acceptance of it?

    Give it up WT, admit it already, the “generation” teaching is dead in the water.

  • September 13, 2015 at 4:12 pm
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    Jehovah, if you’re really up there, let Roger Federer win this one…

    Since 1914, he’s won 5 US Opens. Don’t let him lose simply because he’s been overlapped by the Novak Djokovic generation. (There, I made it relevant to this thread, lol.)

    • September 13, 2015 at 6:15 pm
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      Scratch this off-topic sports comment. I want to be lighthearted here, but not to the point of being flippant. Besides, Roger might actually win and cause me to have to re-evaluate some things…

      • September 13, 2015 at 10:25 pm
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        @JB Breezner. Federer Lost!!! I don’t think you have been Donating Enough Money,Time,& Energy to our MOST HOLY & MOST Wonderful Governing Body!!!!! Jehovah obviously hasn’t answered your Prayer!!

        • September 13, 2015 at 11:18 pm
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          You crack me up, PB! I know!! I watched the whole tragic match. Truthfully, the surest way to get somebody to lose is to have ME root for them! I have about a 1% success rate in choosing winners. Maybe I should go back to rooting for the Org. That way, they would surely collapse! Good night, my friend :)

  • September 13, 2015 at 4:44 pm
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    Just to be clear, the categories I’m referring to,
    are worldly or otherwise.

  • September 13, 2015 at 5:07 pm
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    ruthlee I’m honoured to be regarded as your brother.
    I wish you well in all you do.

    • September 14, 2015 at 1:01 am
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      sweet

    • September 14, 2015 at 1:03 am
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      thanks ted we are all in this together ruth lee

  • September 13, 2015 at 6:33 pm
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    Soooo…. that means people who died during the 9/11 attacks will be resurrected but if their families wont make it if they are still worldly people when harmagedon strikes. I think someone in charge wants everyone to live and made this rule up. Thank you, you guys for answering my question.

  • September 13, 2015 at 6:34 pm
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    Soooo…. that means people who died during the 9/11 attacks will be resurrected but their families wont make it if they’re worldly when harmagedon strikes. I think someone in charge wants everyone to live and made this rule up. Thank you, you guys for answering my question

  • September 13, 2015 at 9:26 pm
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    Thats a point i see all the time, someone who has died in the past comes back & all their non JW wicked family are killed of, & they go where are my kids, etc, that is not a god of love thing, we had an elder use the term “big BBQ” at the end, totaly deranged, here’s another question that i have asked a few, the bible talks about domestic animals in the NS, the question is will our pets die, the answer i get is yes, god has only given the hope of everlasting life to humans, but i say revelation says thet death will be no more, so we will have to cope with animals dyeing another flaw. Ever have a child that has lost a beloved pet, no love their.

  • September 13, 2015 at 9:43 pm
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    “As does yours”? You mean you agree with Cedars’ observations about the Org, but you also think that he shares those same debilitating qualities? That’s a fairly schizophrenic position to take…

    • September 14, 2015 at 11:41 am
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      LOL, what is the matter with you???? If you have a problem with Cedars, then why not identify yourself and what is your problem with Cedars? If you don’t like this web site, then go some place else.

    • September 14, 2015 at 1:25 pm
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      @LOL: No, I’m not anyone’s guardian (except for my little doggy). It just appeared to me that you may have structured your zinger improperly. That, added to the tinge of unwarranted self-satisfaction, struck me personally as mildly offensive and worthy of a mildly defensive reply. It was mostly an issue of your phrasing.

      As for defending Cedars, I would never presume that he would need me or anyone else for that. Besides, if you’re in disagreement with him, or with what you find on this site that has educated and comforted so many, that would be more of an issue of your insanity. I have yet to find an effective verbal defense against that.

      But, if I misunderstood your intent, please accept my apology and have a nice day :)

  • September 13, 2015 at 9:57 pm
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    @LOL . We all have Faults my CRITICAL FRIEND !! There is a BIG BIG Difference between The 7 EVIL MEN of BROOKLYN & Cedars …. The 7 EVIL GB are MANIPULATING & ROBBING 8 MILLION INNOCENT People of their TIME, ENERGY, MONEY,REAL ESTATE,WILLS,STOCKS&SHARES.PENSIONS & CHILDREN of their ICE CREAM MONEY!!!
    & WHAT FOR? To FINANCE A PROPERTY & PUBLISHING EMPIRE!!!

  • September 14, 2015 at 1:13 am
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    hi folks just to wind hubby up i asked him to lead the fs with a quiz,. can anyone explain the generations in three scriptures .ha ha said he would have trouble explaining it .just a thought about the menlo cong those dear bros were appointed to look after sheep how devastating to be turned upon and ripped open in a court of law over money. greed has eaten up this rotten lot we call the slave ,yes i reckon the lunatics have taken over the asylum just think im part of a dual generation i can say whatever age i am and i knew elvis ha ha (no i didnt) lets all think of a loony topic and send it to crooklyn and see if the god channel is open. so much for a highway of holiness more the grand ol information superhighway , a new babel bringing knowledge together wether for good or bad its on record for all to see end of rant ruthlee

  • September 14, 2015 at 3:25 am
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    My husband would never think to put on jwbroadcasting so I put it on for him to watch so after he watched it, I asked him if he could explain the overlapping generation to me and his comment was “I have to watch it again” so I put it on for him again yesterday. I haven’t asked him again but just the fact that he said he had to watch it again, says a lot.

  • September 14, 2015 at 3:25 am
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    I think this time they have really proven how wacky they are. When I imagine the GB meeting and discussing directives it must be something out of Alice in Wonderland -THE MAD HATTERS LUNCH.

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