David Splane grapples with the "overlapping generation" teaching in a new video
David Splane grapples with the “overlapping generation” teaching in a new video

The September JW Broadcasting episode is now available on tv.jw.org, and for any avid follower of goings-on at Watchtower this month’s offering from the ‘faithful and discreet slave’ is a must-watch.

Governing Body member David Splane addresses his audience on one of the many subjects best swept under the rug by Watchtower – the incomprehensible “overlapping generation” teaching.

Simply put, this teaching (which first appeared in the April 15, 2010 Watchtower) is a hastily-contrived get-out-of-jail-free card for the failed 1914 “this generation” teaching.

For decades Watchtower publications insisted that Armageddon was imminent because, they argued, the generation of anointed Witnesses (who believed they were going to heaven) who witnessed and understood the events of 1914 would not die out before Armageddon arrived.

This claim was based on Matthew 24:34, where Jesus told his followers that the generation that witnessed various apocalyptic signs would not die out until all his words, including the “great tribulation” (the prelude to Armageddon), came true.

So certain was Watchtower of this claim that it even had it included in its masthead for the Awake! magazine…

awake-page-4-generation-masthead-oct-1995-tn

That is, until they quietly changed the masthead to read as follows…

awake-page-4-masthead-nov-1995-tn

Increasingly it became obvious that Watchtower’s self-imposed time limit on Armageddon had expired, because too much time had passed since 1914 for there to be any survivors among Jehovah’s Witnesses old enough to have memories of the outbreak of World War I. In fact, at the time of writing in September 2015, only 50 individuals older than 110 years old are known to still be alive.

“New light” was called for, and in 1995 and 2008 the organization made various stabs at squaring the circle. Paul Grundy has done a great job of documenting these fluctuating “understandings” on his JWfacts resource.

The most recent solution, as proposed by Watchtower in 2010 (and regurgitated by Splane in the above clip), is to essentially embellish Jesus’ words by suggesting that “this generation” doesn’t have to be just one generation, but can be two.

The first “group” of “this generation” would witness and understand the events of 1914, and the second group would be those who were born before the last individuals in the first group died (hence an “overlapping” generation).

If you don’t understand this, it is not due to any failure on your part. It is because it doesn’t make sense. The teaching rides roughshod over the English language, redefining what “generation” means, and relying on the audience to willfully bypass their logical thinking skills by asserting the incomprehensible as indisputable truth.

After all, if you can arbitrarily insist that a generation can be composed of two groups, why not have three, four, five – on into infinity? The word “generation” quickly loses all meaning.

The wisest course of action for Watchtower would have been to either distance itself from the “overlapping generation” teaching as a well-meaning slip-up (perhaps by arguing “this generation” was figurative rather than literal), or ignore the matter altogether.

Instead, the Governing Body apparently concluded that a 12-minute video presentation rehashing the teaching, complete with diagram and stick pointer, was just what the doctor ordered.

Their mistake is an inevitable byproduct of their delusion and bullish devotion to their own contrived dogma. It is, to my mind, further proof that the Governing Body are not cynical con-men but really do believe their own nonsense – and expect us to believe it too. Otherwise, they would have steered clear of the subject entirely, and spoken about something more compelling and universally appealing.

In addition to this obvious faux pas, I am also delighted at David Splane’s performance, which wreaked of cheesiness and insincerity…

As a side note – Splane is among three Governing Body members (together with Herd and Losch) who have apparently opted to deliver their JW Broadcasting episodes alongside “helpers” from the various Governing Body committees. The other Governing Body members (Lett, Morris, Sanderson and Jackson) tend to appear by themselves. I can’t help but question Splane’s decision to appear with a co-host, since he is in my view one of the more competent, persuasive speakers on the Governing Body. His uneasy interactions with his co-host only serve to undo the forcefulness of his individual presentation.

A costly mistake

When JW Broadcasting was first announced 11 months ago I said at the time it was great news. The worst thing the Governing Body could possibly do was reveal themselves to their doting followers. It is far easier to respect and admire your leaders when you can’t see or hear them. Having them thrusted at your TV screen or computer monitor in all their bumbling, arrogant, senile, jewelry-flashing glory changes the whole dynamic.

Yes, we have seen some extremely potent pieces of indoctrination designed to pull on the heart strings and appeal to people’s emotions. The standard episode will feature at least one visually appealing interview segment with powerful imagery and stirring music, in which a loyal Witness tears up as he or she relates how Jehovah’s hand has come to their rescue against all odds.

I will continue to do my best to expose these clearly coercive methods in my JW Broadcasting rebuttal videos. But I am growing increasingly confident that to any sincere, intellectually honest Witness capable of rudimentary reasoning skills, no rebuttals are needed. The delusion, absurdity and self-indulgence speaks for itself.

 

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Further reading…

389 thoughts on “David Splane explains the overlapping generation teaching (without actually explaining it)

  • September 10, 2015 at 3:22 pm
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    “But I am growing increasingly confident that to any sincere, intellectually honest Witness capable of rudimentary reasoning skills, no rebuttals are needed. The delusion, absurdity and self-indulgence speaks for itself.”

    Cedars I wish this statement to be true but you have been out to long. Most JW view the monthly broadcast as coming from heaven itself, and the majority will view Splanes explanation as if actually recorded in the gospels.

    • September 10, 2015 at 3:51 pm
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      I didn’t say “majority.” Read it again.

  • September 10, 2015 at 4:03 pm
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    The ultimate special offer, 2 generations for the price of 1.

    Only available from JW.org, hurry to avoid disappointment
    offer ends soon.

    Silly I know. But there’s nothing sensible to say about it.

  • September 10, 2015 at 4:17 pm
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    But wait Ted! There’s more!
    Not only do you get 2 generations for one ….
    But! If you order before midnight you get the full
    set of John the Baptist steak knives . Holy Cow!
    And for the first 1000 callers you get the 3 wise men spice rack stocked with feankinsence and Murr.
    Be the envy of your guests.
    Call now 1-800-WATCHTOWER
    Order now !

    • September 10, 2015 at 5:19 pm
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      Ok……. your drunk, go home.

  • September 10, 2015 at 5:20 pm
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    Someone’s been holding out on me Garret, I didn’t know
    about all these other goodies , but I’m getting a little bit
    suspicious. My dad, bless his soul, always told me.
    If anything sounds too good to be true, you can bet your
    bottom dollar, it bloody well is. LOL.

  • September 10, 2015 at 5:27 pm
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    Greetings, folks. This is my first post. Check my math on this: If you’re born 10 minutes after Joseph dies, you’re NOT part of Joseph’s generation. Hmm… But what if you’re born 10 minutes BEFORE somebody dies who was born BEFORE Joseph and simply outlived him? You would NOT be part of Joseph’s generation, but you WOULD be part of someone’s generation who was born BEFORE him? David, you got some more Splanin’ to do… Weeeee! Critical thinking is fun. I just hate that I waited until I was in my 40’s to try it, lol. Yes, “lol” to keep from crying…

    • September 10, 2015 at 7:56 pm
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      Hmm, my first comment may be too clumsy of a thought to hold up to any scrutiny. My actual point is only to highlight the problem with the contrived SPECIFICITY of the GB’s definition of “generation”. It would’ve been better (slightly less terrible) if they would’ve simply said in 1995 that “this generation” refers to the people exhibiting the behaviors mentioned in the Bible regarding the time of the end, and left it open-ended. Although that too would’ve been an unconventional interpretation of “generation”, it would not have been as reprehensible as their bizarre, self-serving, total reimagining of the word. But, either way, they (the GB) are a rotten, deluded, self-righteous lot. Whenever they shoot themselves in the foot, it is a very welcome thing.

      Sorry for replying to myself. I’m still dusting off the cobwebs of an underused brain.

      • September 10, 2015 at 11:56 pm
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        @ JB Breezner. Don’t Worry about your first comment. I thought it was very good & not clumsy. WHAT IS CLUMSY is DAVID SPLANES DESCRIPTION of the GENERATION DOCTRINE!! I would even call it an UTTER CONFUSED SHAMBOLIC MESS!
        Sorry if I haven’t been CLEAR ENOUGH about my description of the ‘MOST HOLY ANOINTED ??? KING & HIGH PRIEST DAVID SPLANE’

        • September 11, 2015 at 1:31 pm
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          LOL, that’s well said about Splane, Pickled brain! I agree wholeheartedly. And I thank you for the kind words regarding my comment.

      • September 11, 2015 at 12:38 am
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        Or maybe they could use the fact that the generation that saw Jesus’ miracles did see the end of the Jewish system including the temple. (Jesus’ ministry ended 33 AD and Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD.) There is a comment in Matt 24:48 that the end would appear, from our point of view, to be delayed. Something has to give sometime – global warming will destroy us otherwise.

        • September 11, 2015 at 1:57 pm
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          Yes ma’am, that too would be better (less terrible) than the nonsense they settled on. As I look back, one of the things that freaks me out the most is that my goofy brain so readily accepted CONSTANT emphasis on how “no one can know the day and hour”, while AT THE SAME TIME being incessantly reminded that Armageddon is coming TOMORROW! BOTH messages being sent by the SAME source! Jeeez, I was a poster boy for cognitive dissonance.

      • September 11, 2015 at 7:57 pm
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        Welcome back to the real world. I am still dusting off my brain…3 years later.. But, truly there aren’t many things that give one the satisfaction that using their critical thinking skills does. See? That sentence makes no sense. But I don’t mind. Done keeping up appearances.

    • September 10, 2015 at 10:36 pm
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      Welcome JB Reezner!!!!
      I do hope you at least brought the chips and salsa?
      Don’t fail us right after your first post!
      Did you bring Twinkies?
      Best of wishes and glad to have you with us!
      Thanks for your comments.
      Garrett

      • September 11, 2015 at 2:15 pm
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        “Gracias” for the kind welcome, Garrett! I have no chips or salsa. I thought I’d get emails when people add to this post after I signed up, but I didn’t. I probably goofed something up. Anyway, that’s my excuse for not getting back to you SOONER. I will assume that, by now, you are warm and well fed and not needing my leftover scrambled eggs from lunch, lol.

        Thanks again. I have been enjoying this site and the conversations taking place here for a few months now.

    • September 11, 2015 at 3:51 am
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      JB Reezner,

      Welcome to JW Survey, and all of us lovely people who comment here!

      I thought your comment was spot on. I hope that your awakening from the undue influence goes smoothly and welcome to your freedom!

      Peace be with you, Excelsior!

      • September 11, 2015 at 5:43 pm
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        Thank you, Excelsior! I have been enjoying the excellent information (and brilliant presentation of it) offered by this site very much. The fascinating conversations and heartening camaraderie I find in the comments section is icing on the cake.

        My awakening has been going fairly smoothly. My last meeting was 5 years ago. Fully awake within a year or so of that. A nice slow fade since then.

        Thanks again, and peace be with you too!

  • September 10, 2015 at 6:32 pm
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    Splane says; “Who in 1914 were the only ones who saw the various aspects of the sign and drew the right conclusion? That something invisible was occurring? Only the anointed.”
    Really? Prior to, up to and beyond 1914 they believed that the last days began in 1799, that Christ’s presence began in 1874 and his heavenly enthronement occurred in 1878. That doesn’t sound to me like they ‘drew the right conclusion’. Either Splane and his cronies don’t know their own history or they are lying. I suspect the latter.

  • September 10, 2015 at 8:38 pm
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    The Watchtower’s asinine overlapping generation teaching is a desperate attempt to defend the long-expired 1914 cornerstone date. When David Splane gave the names of the first generation of anointed leaders, who recognized the sign of Christ’s presence in 1914, he left out the Watchtower’s founding father, Charles Taze Russell. However, Pastor Russell was 1914’s biggest cheerleader. Therefore, new light is needed to illuminate why the Governing Body threw Pastor Russell under the bus and left him out of the Watchtower faithful slave hall of fame:

    The Watch Tower board of directors, known as the Governing Body, has claimed in their publications for the last 90 years that they and the remnant of the 144,000 are the modern version of the faithful and discrete slave, including their founding father, Charles Taze Russell. But until further notice, Pastor Russell has lost his previous status of being part of the slave class: “Were the Bible Students in the years that lead up to 1914 the appointed channel through which Christ would feed his sheep? No. They were still in the growing season, and the arrangement for a channel to provide spiritual food was taking shape. The time had not yet come for the weedlike imitation Christians to be separated from the true Christian wheat.” (Watchtower July 15, 2013 study edition p.19)

    On the bright side, Pastor Russell does receive honorable mention for establishing the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society: “During the decades leading up to 1914, C. T. Russell and his close associates did a work like that of John the Baptizer. That vital work involved restoring Bible truths. The Bible Students taught the true meaning of Christ’s ransom sacrifice, exposed the hellfire lie, and proclaimed the coming end of the Gentile Times.” (Watchtower July 15, 2013 study edition p.11, p 6).

    Having the Governing Body strip Pastor Russell of his former faithful slave status is the equivalent of having the Catholic Church claim that Saint Peter wasn’t really the first pope.

  • September 10, 2015 at 8:46 pm
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    One of the shocking things about this presentation is that there is NO mention at all of C.T. Russell! They have completely thrown him away.

    • September 10, 2015 at 10:03 pm
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      Max says: “… there is NO mention at all of C.T. Russell!”

      The Watchtower’s asinine overlapping generation teaching is a desperate attempt to defend the long-expired 1914 cornerstone date. When David Splane gave the names of the first generation of anointed leaders, who recognized the sign of Christ’s presence in 1914, he left out the Watchtower’s founding father, Charles Taze Russell. However, Pastor Russell was 1914’s biggest cheerleader. Therefore, new light is needed to illuminate why the Governing Body threw Pastor Russell under the bus and left him out of the Watchtower faithful slave hall of fame:

      The Watch Tower board of directors, known as the Governing Body, has claimed in their publications for the last 90 years that they and the remnant of the 144,000 are the modern version of the faithful and discrete slave, including their founding father, Charles Taze Russell. But until further notice, Pastor Russell has lost his previous status of being part of the slave class: “Were the Bible Students in the years that lead up to 1914 the appointed channel through which Christ would feed his sheep? No. They were still in the growing season, and the arrangement for a channel to provide spiritual food was taking shape. The time had not yet come for the weedlike imitation Christians to be separated from the true Christian wheat.” (Watchtower July 15, 2013 study edition p.19)

      On the bright side, Pastor Russell does receive honorable mention for establishing the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society: “During the decades leading up to 1914, C. T. Russell and his close associates did a work like that of John the Baptizer. That vital work involved restoring Bible truths. The Bible Students taught the true meaning of Christ’s ransom sacrifice, exposed the hellfire lie, and proclaimed the coming end of the Gentile Times.” (Watchtower July 15, 2013 study edition p.11, p 6).

      Having the Governing Body strip Pastor Russell of his former faithful slave status is the equivalent of having the Catholic Church claim that Saint Peter wasn’t really the first pope.

      • September 11, 2015 at 2:22 am
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        Thing is…Judge Rutherford was EVEN worse than Charlie boy for crazy doctrines and strange things thus they can wipe out CTR as being the FDS but not Rutherford…

        • September 11, 2015 at 8:44 am
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          RE: “Judge” Rutherford’s crackpot prophecies, such as this little gem:

          “The indisputable facts, therefore, show that the “time of the end” began in 1799; that the Lord’s second presence began in 1874.” — Watchtower 1922 Mar 1 p.73.

          If the Lord’s second presence hadn’t been moved up to 1914, the new light, which explains the overlapping generations, might have been introduced soon after Freddy Franz’ 1975 armageddon prophesy failed to materialize.

      • September 11, 2015 at 7:13 am
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        In the wbts own Insight books I believe they say a generation is about 33 yrs. So 33, 40 or anything there about is a long way from overlapping. Others have commented about using the Bible only. Yes my husband and I do too. Our ministry is also informal. Just nice conversations with people that we can commend and encourage. No telling them what they should or shouldn’t do. The sermon on the mount contains Jesus teachings on how to live a good life. That’s what we strive for and that’s what we see in others. Our job is one where we deal with the public and most of the people we meet in my experience try to lead honest and kind lives and they truly care about others. We no longer support the us versus them mentality. We do go to meetings occasionally but we have very little in common anymore. BTW the book Crisis of Conscience is an excellent read and so is his follow up book as well. Should be required reading before anyone gets baptized, haha.

        Best Regards

      • September 11, 2015 at 9:29 am
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        RE: “Rutherford didn’t just change the name to “JW” he actually branched off.”

        I’m assuming that Joseph Rutherford had some bible knowledge. Therefore, I have always wondered how he decided on the name he chose for his cult. These quotes are taken directly from the latest Watchtower bible rewrite:

        There’s this one:

        “You are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah, “Yes, my servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and have faith in me And understand that I am the same One. Before me no God was formed, And after me there has been none. (Isaiah 43:10)

        And then there’s this one, where Paul is discussing the teachings of Jesus:

        So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction. But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Judea and Samari and to the most distant part of the earth.” (Acts 1: 6-8)

        Rutherford chose “Jehovah’s Witnesses.” But he could just as easily have chosen “Jesus’ Witnesses.”

      • September 12, 2015 at 1:17 am
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        Thanks Fatchance,
        That is truly a treasure trove of early Watchtower teachings. Now let my cousin prove that these teachings were of Satan.

  • September 10, 2015 at 9:12 pm
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    I prefer All Along the Watchtower by Jimi Hendrix. A lot better than living in a Purple Haze!

  • September 10, 2015 at 9:55 pm
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    Hi guys. I’m, unfortunately, a baptized JW. Now knowing myself and from experience, I have a very good intuitive mind and usually I’m right. I know JWs are mislead and I have a feeling that JWs are going to fall in the future. What bothers me snd has been for quite some time is what if they were right, and this thought only pops in my head because the people in my hall and the elders are so obsessed with the idea of the “stem of things” coming to an end. I recently had to meet with two elders because of an incident that happened in April. One of the elders I’ve known most my life because his son is like my little brother. But interesting during this meeting, what they kept saying sounded so rehearsed, like these thoughts were not theirs. I see it so much after reading JW Survey articles that these people are brainwashed. They just follow whatever they are told and I hate it. Also just now I told my sister my dresm of becoming a pilot. She then asked me how will I have time for meetings snd my job because of the schedule, and it doesn’t sound like her. Oh if she knew heh how I truly felt. Mr. Evans I really want to thank you and all of you for your posts. I’ve researched and in this “New World Translation” abomination. They make it seem like you all are false prophets that their bible talks about and how you all are against Jesus. But I realize that you all love your families and wantbthe best and you guys have your own beliefs. I believe that we are humans and we will act like so and the world today isn’t as bad as the early 1900’s and below. I don’t believe God is truly cruel. The one idea that keeps me knowing that he is real is space itself ya know? Like that couldn’t just exist because if it did that means God could exist right? Look you all keep living your lives because it’s too short to be brainwashed and following others orders. Just be happy guys because I believe truly God will make life for all of us better. Somehow he will because he is God. Just live your life and be happy. Sorry my post is so long I just have a lot on my chest right now.

    • September 11, 2015 at 2:53 am
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      jon, that video is hilarious!!! Thanks for sharing.

    • September 11, 2015 at 6:10 pm
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      That video almost KILLED me, I was laughing so hard! Thanks, I needed that.

  • September 11, 2015 at 1:22 am
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    Oh no how about a BOGOF (for the uninitiated buy one get one free) i still think the GB should have a lottery and the prize Everlasting life,. 2nd prize Eternal witnessing and a booby prize a tour of Crooklyn no expenses paid. seriously this maybe the deathstroke. im in a dilemma i still go preaching but ive stopped the drivel stuff i use my Bible only, actually im looking for Christians not JWS they can find thier own way there my dear old dad, if he were not pushing up daisies he would be spinning right now. had such belief in this bonkers religion im actually glad to be around now the way things are panning out is so interesting please keep the comments coming. the explanation about a generation being abot 40 years by one of the commenters is so logical the best explanation yet .who really wants to eat spoiled spiritual food only those so starved of healthy nourishing sustainance would raid the garbage can and scoff themselves.bread and wine anyone my place is fine.ruthlee

    • September 11, 2015 at 1:52 am
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      @ruth lee . I like your STYLE! I think the BOOBY PRIZE should be a Place in HEAVEN with the 7 MUSKETEERS!! BOY!! That would be HELL!!

      • September 11, 2015 at 1:23 pm
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        tee hee pickled brain

    • September 11, 2015 at 4:09 am
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      Ruthlee,

      It’s great to read that you and Mr Perez are using your bibles only.

      Although I am an atheist, I acknowledge that there are some positive messages in the bible, and many folks find it beneficial to have a faith.

      I would encourage all of us to examine the world scientifically and critically.

      Any Truth can withstand even the most critical scrutiny.

      Peace be with you, Excelsior!

  • September 11, 2015 at 1:25 am
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    Surely the Watchtowers generation teaching is a nonsense. Could it be easily argued, in the context of the of the 1st century generation, that the generation who “witnessed all these things” began with uprising of the Jewish nation against the Romans in 66 C.E.?

  • September 11, 2015 at 2:29 am
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    Has anyone been to the Website of the International BIble Students Assosiation? They claim that they have never had anything to do with JWs. They also claim that Bible Students did not evolve into JWs. They are 2 separate movements. If Jesus chose the BIble Students in 1919(as JWs did not exist yet) than why are not all JWs BIble students. Are JWs the original apostates of the IBSA?

    • September 11, 2015 at 2:59 am
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      Mc fan, yes they are the original apostates of the IBSA but you have to have awakened to the real truth about the truth to realize that.

      Last night I woke up in the night with yet another nightmare about trying to tell a former “friend” about the real truth about the truth.

      When do the nightmares end? I hate that religion more than anybody can possibly know that is unless you are going through the same thing so that you know what I am talking about.

      I wished I could move away from here to start all over again but I can’t leave because I’d be leaving behind one of my children who are still in the cult.

      • September 11, 2015 at 3:48 am
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        anonymous,

        I’m sorry to read about your nightmare, dear Lady.

        Maybe it’s time for a break from all this? There are many of us here, and we can take up any slack.

        You don’t owe anyone anything, and if this is making you upset, then there’s no shame in taking a break or walking away.

        I for one do not judge anyone for what they do or don’t do in the battle against the WTBTS.

        Take care of yourself, and I hope that you find some comfort from your pain.

        Peace be with you, Excelsior!

        • September 11, 2015 at 1:47 pm
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          @Excelsior. Thank you for the kind thoughts. I think what I am going through is Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. I have heard other people talk about it and I think that that is what I am experiencing and all of us who are experiencing waking up from the indoctrination are probably suffering from the same thing.

          We wouldn’t have to suffer like this if we weren’t in a cult that expels any of us who would speak out so that we could warn our loved ones and friends but we can’t. That is what makes it so hard on us and that is what the Society has planned for us to punish us for speaking out. It is evil and sadistic but that is what they want and I will not let it conquer me.

          I come to read comments here all through the day and it’s those comments are what get me through the day.

          I wished I could just walk away from the JW religion and live my life and be happy without all those former “friends” but I do think the only way people can walk away from it is to move far, far away where nobody can hound you about it into “coming” back but probably for most of us, that isn’t possible.

          So, this web site is really a life saver for me and I am sure for a lot of other people such as myself also.

          Thanks Cedars for thinking of doing this web site and keeping it up!!! I am so grateful to you and your family for everything you have done here.

          • September 11, 2015 at 9:19 pm
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            @Anonymous . EXCELLENT COMMENTS. Yes MANIPULATION by 7 EVIL MEN!!
            JESUS CHRIST NEVER NEVER SHUNNED ANYONE!! Jesus spoke to the Pharisees continuously EVEN though they had Twisted the Scriptures so they ignored Love,Justice&Mercy !!
            Jesus didn’t ignore Judas .He carried on speaking to him right through the ‘Last Supper’ & allowed Judas to associate with the rest of the Apostles!! NO SHUNNING of JUDAS by JESUS!!
            Take care Anonymous! Keep on speaking out! MANY JWs are READING THIS SITE! & YES CEDARS (Lloyd) is DOING A BRILLIANT SERVICE TO HUMANITY in Highlighting WATCHTOWER ABUSE!!

  • September 11, 2015 at 2:29 am
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    Wasn’t the original fulfilment of this Matt 24 prophesy in the first century? Didn’t Jesus mean the generation that saw the destruction of Jerusalem would not pass away? Didn’t that take place 37 years after Jesus’ death?

    If that was the first fulfilment, how come the second fulfilment (parallel to the first) has a totally different meaning?

    If the first fulfilment had an overlapping-generation meaning, maybe Jerusalem wouldn’t have been destroyed until around 140AD.

    Just thinking….

  • September 11, 2015 at 3:19 am
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    If this generation in the first century fulfilment was 37 years why in the second fulfilment (it their speculation is right) it can be 160 years? This is total madness, is putting your entire trust in the hands of other men. This can happen because they do not study their own history which is full of speculation and wishful thinking.

    • September 11, 2015 at 9:28 pm
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      @David . YOUR ANALYSIS HAS NAILED the UTTER FOOLISHNESS of Following 7 MEN in BROOKLYN & Not just Following OUR OWN REASONING & Particularly our OWN BIBLE TRAINED CONSCIENCES instead of Following the FLIP FLOP CONSCIENCES of 7 EVIL MEN who tried to HIDE CHILD ABUSE BY ELDERS by Not Reporting one Case out of 1006 JW Child Abusers in Australia as Highlighted by the Royal Commission instead the Watchtower has been Paying TENS of MILLIONS in Compensation to Victims to Silence them! ABSOLUTELY SICKENING!! JESUS WOULD be ASHAMED of these 7 EVIL MEN !

  • September 11, 2015 at 5:00 am
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    thanks for all the kind words to me. to anon i really understand you wanting to move away i too would like to do this but i have kids in school still trying gently not to promote being unbtzd pubs im stalling for time its so difficult but this site is the voice of reason and non judgement. we are all wiiling to hear what others have to say so plod on like me doing the discreet thing at the moment .i reckon if God is running the show (of life) He will make it very plain when it is time to jump ship peace and love to you, ruthlee

    • September 11, 2015 at 1:17 pm
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      I also think i will have to jump ship.
      Have been in since 60s i have now woken up . Most of my family are jw including wife . So i have similar problem. I have faded but still take wife to meetings . Its hard to sit throgh it now i notice all the mind control methods now i dont care much if members of cong shun me but worry how to deal with wife and close family . I get so depressed having to sit at meetings and listen to the nonsense . I have told her the time is coming when ill drop her off and pick up latter . It ses although i am mentaly free i feel even more trapped now i know what a complete waste of time it is.

      • September 11, 2015 at 7:58 pm
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        John, I know how you feel.

        After leaving, and having not attended a meeting in over a year, I agreed to attend a special meeting with my mother, I think it was 2008, where the congregation listened to a brother from the GB give a talk via the phone loop (I can’t remember which one).
        The entire thing was painfully boring. I don’t remember him saying anything special, nothing new. Hardly worth all the excitement the brothers and sisters were showing before the meeting started.
        I am still amazed that after that last attendance, that I was never requested to meet with the elders.
        I stood during the 3 songs, but did not sing and wouldn’t even look at the song book my mum was trying to share with me.
        My mum passed me a bible, I placed it on the ground, I didn’t care to follow along. I know people were watching me. And I know it was obvious to everyone that I did not want to be there.
        When I walked out that day, I knew, I would never go back. Not for a memorial to keep people happy, not for a funeral, not for money! Once you wake up, it’s a brain killing, soul destroying place to be. I hope you can fade quietly with no hassle from your family.

      • September 11, 2015 at 9:36 pm
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        @John Freeman . I am in a Similar Situation as you . & when you realise the MANIPULATION TECHNIQUES Used Especially on TV.JW.Org with the EMOTIONAL MUSIC in the BACKGROUND & at Least one JW voice Quivering near to tears ! You can see These 7 MEN are Very CRAFTY & will APPEAL to the EMOTIONALLY VULNERABLE!! VERY VERY SAD !

        • September 11, 2015 at 11:03 pm
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          I really feel for you guys, those feelings you talk about were dominating my life before the ARC.

          I wish that you could have your own Royal Commission or something similar. I’m so thankful for it happening here as it has freed me to go out & live my life again. I’ve been going to the local shopping centre a fair bit lately & have not run into one Witness there. I stopped going there because it didn’t matter what time or day, there would always be someone there. Not lately, they seem to have disappeared of the face of the earth.

          My husband & I haven’t even seen them out witnessing or manning the cart (which is only allowed to be put at the KH by council). They seem to be very quiet here at the moment & it’s a small community, they normally stand out here.

          I’m actually wondering how many are questioning their faith here. It may have gone quiet but I think the seeds have been planted & it’s just a matter of time for it grow.

          It has given me so much more confidence with the thought of running into someone & not letting them affect me anymore. I’ve been ready to say something if they’re game enough to talk to me.

          • September 12, 2015 at 5:14 am
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            Grace,

            Fantastic news! I am so happy that you were able to have your right to a normal day, going where you wanted to go and do what you wanted to do.

            The ARC has inoculated a lot of people to the WTBTS. Let’s hope your physical freedom continues!

            Peace be with you, Excelsior!

      • September 12, 2015 at 8:44 pm
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        Aye John. I was so in your shoes. Unfortunately my ex would not or could not admit their tomfoolery. I gave her the choice. Me or the rubbish that gets crammed down their throats. She chose poorly.

  • September 11, 2015 at 5:47 am
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    How does the GB explain this then if the word ‘generation’ means 2 groups of people overlapping in lifespan?
    From Matthew 1.17
    All the generations, then, from Abraham until David were 14 generations; from David until the deportation to Babylon, 14 generations; from the deportation to Babylon until the Christ, 14 generations.

    Can’t be any clearer.. this scripture rams home how generation is intended to be understood.

    • September 11, 2015 at 9:42 pm
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      @ Daniel . YOU ARE SO RIGHT!! MATTHEW EXPLAINS ‘ GENERATION ‘ Perfectly! Make it COMPLICATED that the Ordinary JW Can’t Understand & one sister says she just leaves everything to the GB to work out !! SAD, SAD & SAD!
      What about 1 John ch.4 v1,2 where it says ‘TEST EVERY INSPIRED EXPRESSION ‘ Even more so Uninspired ones ??

      • September 12, 2015 at 3:08 pm
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        Totally. So much for the Boreans.. seeing if these things are true…. Honestly I think that the JW way of life appeals to the human ego. The whole “we are right – we are chosen – we are special -You are not”
        Admitting you are wrong and have been for many years is too much for some people and they would rather continue to delude themselves.. even though they know that it is a delusion.

  • September 11, 2015 at 6:00 am
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    Their smiles on their tv.jw, I mean the smile of all the seven members of the governing body is anything but natural. Where does their strange and constraint smile come from ? Has their heavenly crown become too heavy for each of them ? Or does it come from their inherent hypocrisy ? Or maybe is it due to the fact that before they are TV speaking they have swallowed an huge anti-depressant, inciting them not to call into question the new lights they are disclosing to their co-domestics greedy for new spiritual food ?

  • September 11, 2015 at 7:28 am
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    Their asses must be sore from pulling out that massive turd. How any half-way intelligent human being can fall for this obvious scam is beyond me. You must really be brainwashed to not see the obvious lies at this point.

  • September 11, 2015 at 8:33 am
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    Well done Lloyd. Cedars at his best when exposing the organisation for what it is. A sham.

  • September 11, 2015 at 8:46 am
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    The Society should put out a booklet entitled ” The Generations Theory for Dummies”. Because that is
    Exactly what it looked like to me. They could have tag
    Lines like…. The book that keeps on ticking… Or How
    Loooonnnngggg can we pull it off???? How about Is
    Your generation as flexible as ours?
    I also like “LUCY…You got some splaining to do!!!”
    Anyhow it couldn’t be any worse.

    • September 11, 2015 at 9:55 am
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      @Exhausted. HOW ABOUT ‘ The Who’ ‘ MY GENERATION ‘ song & one of the verses in the Song is ….,’I HOPE I DIE Before I GET OLD’!!!!
      How about’ I hope I die Before the GB come up with NEW LIGHT on the ‘ Generation ”
      The BIGGEST DUMMIES are the Rank & File who fall for their CHOP& CHANGE DRIVEL !!

      • September 11, 2015 at 7:28 pm
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        Hilarious, Pickled brain! And now all I can hear in my head is David Splane trying to explain “generation” with the same speed freak stutter that Roger Daltrey uses in the song, haha. “Brother F-F-F-Franz was born in eighteen nuh-nuh-nuh ninety three”.

  • September 11, 2015 at 9:01 am
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    Robertperez,

    Hi again Robert , In a previous post I said the GB were stuck
    with 1914. You replied, “They didn’t predict the date, so they
    have no obligation whatsoever to hold to it. I agree, 1914 did
    not originate with the present GB.

    They did not father the child, but they definitely “Adopted it.
    ( “There is more evidence for 1914 than for Gravity or electricity”
    A recent comment by Stephen Lett.). Wouldn’t you say then
    that they do have an obligation to hold to it? Not that, that will
    prevent them from abandoning it, if they think it’s advantageous.

    As you suggest, they could morph into a “Keep preaching and
    leave the rest to JHVH, mindset. Some recent talks and articles
    indicate that’s the direction they’re taking.

    I can only see the growth rate plummeting, in my long experience
    in the religion, I’ve noticed very few have the same enthusiasm for
    the preaching work as you do.

    What’s kept the bros, knocking on doors and being told to F, Off
    or I’ll set the dogs on you, etc, Has been the teaching, of the
    need to work your passage through the imminent slaughter of
    Armageddon and into a new world. All based on the 1914
    doctrine. As I’ve said already, it’s a noose around their necks
    that’s getting tighter.

    • September 11, 2015 at 9:50 am
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      Stephen Lett likened the invisible 1914 kingdom to other invisible things, such as gravity, electricity and wind. What more proof do we need?

      The Watchtower’s Governing Body has definitely adopted the 1914 teaching and will go to whatever lengths deemed necessary in order to defend it.

      The Watchtower (Simplified Edition) January 2014 featured an article entitled “100 Years of Kingdom Rule—How Does It Affect You?”, which uses plenty of out of context scriptures to fully explain the 1914 doctrine to those with simple minds. Read all about it here:

      http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/ws20140115/100-years-kingdom-rule/

    • September 11, 2015 at 11:28 am
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      Yes, they could opt out of the repetitive rounds of predictions (and failures) with this new doctrine, but I don’t think they will. They are too attracted to the increased membership and donations such predictions bring about.

  • September 11, 2015 at 10:41 am
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    Great comments, and excellent points! I just read them all, but two things I didn’t see mentioned, so I’ll add my two cents:

    1. Contrary to what Splane claims, Franz et al., did not “understand” the significance of 1914 at the time; they expected it to be the END of the last days — not their start.

    2. Splane asks: “What did Joseph and his brothers have in common?” Um… a father? They were of the same “generation” because they had been “generated” out of Jacob’s “loins.” It’s quite a stretch to apply this to “anyone alive at the same time.” That is not what “generation” has meant to anyone — ever!

    I’d better never hear a Witness complaining about “the generation gap”; there can be no generation gap when everyone alive is of the same generation. (I wonder if there have been any WT/Awake articles on the generation gap; these will be old light now!)

  • September 11, 2015 at 10:50 am
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    In Ray,s book, I forget which one of the governing body
    Members it was, but he was frustrated with the whole thing and made the comment that we got that from the
    Adventists. I remember that because it stunned me at
    The time to read such a revelation as that, having grown
    Up in the truth. I had never heard of any connection to
    Adventists, Millerites, or whatever other leanings CTR
    Had up his sleeve. Pyramidology was never mentioned
    During my lifetime, nor was Beth Sarim, or 1874 or 1799
    And these dates were predicted before CTR was even born. I also remember attending a Corporate meeting
    In Pittsburgh in 1968 and they played a movie of CTR
    Pacing the stage giving one of his sermons on film of
    Course and all praise was being given to him. Now, you
    Don’t hear anything at all about him in those reverent terms. ????? Even though I was only about 15 at the
    Time, I remember it like it was yesterday. Things really
    Have changed drastically. So glad to be out.

  • September 11, 2015 at 10:52 am
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    Oh the frustration was in regards to 1914 of course.
    Forgot to preface that.

  • September 11, 2015 at 11:35 am
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    This religion has created such a conundrum of “new light” and rules and false prophecies. If asked, the average witness will never be able to explain the following:

    Overlapping generations?
    Who exactly is the King of the North?
    What are blood fractions?
    policy on child abuse?
    Shunning?

    Who’s on first?

    • September 11, 2015 at 1:09 pm
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      @Rob. GOOD POINTS!!
      How about adding
      1) Gog & Magog
      2)F&D Slave
      3)Sheep&Goats
      4)Organ Transplants
      5) Vaccinations
      6)Superior Authorities
      ANY MORE, ANYONE????

    • September 11, 2015 at 3:34 pm
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      Dear Rob;
      “Who exactly is the King of the North?”
      I think;
      It is and has been Russia since 1453ce.
      Many in the West think Rome fell or sort of fell apart 400-500ce and I did too, But the Roman Empire survived as ‘Byzantium’ untill 1453; Columbus had been born by then.

      Warning thinking can lead to isolation.

  • September 11, 2015 at 12:10 pm
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    GB, Do the honourable thing and issue a full and unreserved
    apology to all the people who have put their lives on hold.

    People who have forgone marriage and the joy of children,
    Those who have missed out on a good education and career.
    Ones who have spent their lives working for you without
    proper wages and are left with little support in old age.

    And all because of a dogmatic adherence to a long ago failed
    prediction based on the year 1914. A date that you insist was
    given to you by God.

    Spare us the usual rhetoric, that in their desire to see gods plan
    fulfilled bros, have run ahead of the org, and raised false
    expectations in their mind. You and you alone are the ones who
    are responsible for these bogus assumptions. SHAME ON YOU.

    • September 11, 2015 at 1:32 pm
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      here here ted and so say all of us ruthlee

  • September 11, 2015 at 12:41 pm
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    I’ve a feeling that David Spline and the rest of the G B are going to have to keep explaining the Generation teaching more and more. You see it just doesn’t make sense, rather it causes more confusion! The sad part is I think the G B are so deluded they actually believe all this nonsense… These 7 clowns dressed in comic book suits are ‘ Barking Mad ‘ and DO NOT REPRESENT ANY GOD I KNOW…

    • September 12, 2015 at 10:08 am
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      RE: “These 7 clowns dressed in comic book suits are ‘ Barking Mad ‘ and DO NOT REPRESENT ANY GOD I KNOW…”

      And here’s why:

      “By his spirit, the holy spirit, Jehovah God guides or leads his people up to a certain point of time, and thus he did until the time when “the comforter” was taken away, which would necessarily occur when Jesus, the Head of his organization, came to the temple and gathered unto himself those whom he found faithful when he, as the great Judge, began his judgment, in 1918.” (Preservation, 1932, p.193-194)

      So, according to Joseph Rutherford, holy spirit was taken away from Jesus’ followers in 1918. I have always wondered how a person can sin against the holy spirit and now I am beginning to understand:

      “Truly I say to you that all things will be forgiven the sons of men, no matter what sins they commit and what blasphemies they speak. But whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit has no forgiveness forever but is guilty of everlasting sin.” (Mark 3:28. 29) (New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (2013 Revision)

  • September 11, 2015 at 1:08 pm
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    So the GB have rewritten the Bible to suit their Dogma and now they are trying desperately to re-write the English dictionary to suit their Dogma as well. These guy’s are just plain nuts! Who ties their shoelaces? With two thirds of JW kids quitting the cult as soon as they’re able, (because kids usually have good BS detectors) the arrival of the internet providing instant information sharing and giving cults no place to hide, the WT being caught with their pants down and totally shamed by the Aust. Royal Commission and sites like this, it’s only a matter of time before the house of cards comes tumbling down. Anybody who can’t now see it for what it is, is either totally blind or has a deep seated desire to be led and told what to do. I recently presented my JW mother with a logical question which she couldn’t answer so she rang my JW sister who in turn rang an elder. The cult have these people thinking and behaving like primary school children who can’t even think for themselves and go running to the headmaster for an answers.

    • September 11, 2015 at 7:11 pm
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      Well said, Pete. And your BS detector comment reminded me of my non-JW niece. Years ago, when she was a child, I would occasionally take her to meetings with me. Recently, I admitted to her that I no longer subscribe to the JW belief system (I think the technical term I used was “horse sh*t”). I apologized for having exposed her to it and she said, ‘It’s no big deal. I never believed any of it.” With that, I felt small and dumb, yet very proud of HER. For what it’s worth, you have my best wishes that your family members somehow experience an enlightenment before too long.

    • September 12, 2015 at 3:08 pm
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      Well said, Pete! And your comment about kids having good BS detectors reminded me of my non-JW niece. Years ago, when she was a child, I would occasionally take her to the meetings with me. Recently, I divulged to her that I no longer subscribe to JW doctrine (I think the term I used was actually “horse s#!*”). I apologized for having exposed her to it, but she said, “It’s not a big deal. I never believed any of it anyway.” With that, I felt small and stupid myself, but very proud of HER!

      I wish for your family members the same enlightenment that so many are experiencing these days. The GB seems determined to keep making their hooey harder and harder to swallow.

  • September 11, 2015 at 1:32 pm
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    Give enough rope and they will hang themselves.Hence the money grabs etc, they know they are running out of time & members. I only hope im alive to see it!

  • September 11, 2015 at 1:56 pm
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    As the saying goes,”trick me once, shame on me! Trick me twice,shame on you” wbts are a bunch of (feel free to fill in the blanks):)

    • September 11, 2015 at 5:04 pm
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      I can think of many, many terms I could use for the WTBTS, to ‘fill in your blanks’, however I fear my post would be deleted. Someone recently suggested that the 9/11 terrorists should have targeted the WT Headquarters rather than the WTC, because, in their words, “terrorists need to kill terrorists.” Their final word was “Sorry.” I replied, “Don’t be sorry”, and both those posts were deleted! I suppose making those kinds of comments is too politically incorrect and inflammatory, unlike molesting innocent children , brainwashing the masses, cutting people off from their families, ruining people’s lives with bald-faced lies and cynical manipulation techniques, and keeping millions captive in a ritualistic cult based on worshipping a mental idol (“Jehovah”). I suppose we wouldn’t want to ruffle anyone’s feathers, especially the “high and mighty” GB up there in their Ivory Tower. Maybe I’m just a bad person for agreeing with that (deleted) post.
      By the way, your “handle” reminded me of something I was thinking of just today. The WTBTS has always made such a big deal about “nailing” 1914 as a pivotal year i.e. the outbreak of “World War I”. But WWI is only WWI because we call it that. It was really just another European war, fought, as usual, between the French, British, and Germans. The U.S. didn’t get involved until 1917. Was there fighting in North America? South America? Australia? Africa? India? Russia? China? Japan? Thailand??? So it really wasn’t a “world war”, was it? Yes, there were tremendous casualties, but only due to technology (the machine gun, artillery, air power), and the belligerents’ stubbornness in continuing to send more and more troops into the slaughter. And, of course, it was a war which involved primarily white Europeans and North Americans (“Westerners”), so naturally it was EVENTUALLY dubbed “WORLD War I” (originally the Great War). Doubt it would have been WWI if it occurred in Latin America or Australia or Africa! Russell and his cronies could have thrown out one of many other dates and still “nailed” a “major” war – how about the Boer War, Spanish Civil War, WWII, the Korean War,the French IndoChina War, the Vietnam War, any one of the countless Middle Eastern wars, Bosnia, Rwanda, even other earthshaking events like the stock market crash of 1929, Mount St. Helen’s, Chernobyl, 9/11, etc. Sh*t happens. All the time. Anyone can make predictions, and statistically speaking, be correct from time to time. Once again, WTBTS and the GB, proven to be a bunch of nothings and nobodies, with no mystical powers and no connection to any Divinity, “Jehovah” or not!!!

      • September 11, 2015 at 9:50 pm
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        @Awake . GREAT COMMENTS!! I am with you in MIND BODY & SOUL!!
        SOUL … What a Lovely Word ! The Way the GB Define it is Enough to Confuse ALL US GOOD SOULS on this Website.
        I Don’t Trust Any Interpretations by the GB Anymore !! I Research Everything I have been taught by Watchtower Manipulation!

  • September 11, 2015 at 2:31 pm
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    @Cedar Sullivan . Sorry I am a bit slow. Are you insulting the CEDARS WEBSITE ‘ ???
    & Excuse me as I have been a JW for 35 years so my brain is not used to thinking properly,but WHAT is NAIJA?? Is it some JAPANESE NINJA TURTLE Version of STEPHEN LETT???
    Please forgive my IGNORANCE as I have been Brainwashed, sorry I meant spiritually Led by the F& D Slave???

  • September 11, 2015 at 7:44 pm
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    “If you don’t understand this, it is not due to any failure on your part. It is because it doesn’t make sense. ” – This gave me a good chuckle :)
    It really doesn’t make any sense. I never understood the 607 explanation either ‘there’s no year 0 so minus one year and you get the answer’. Um, what?
    They are crazy for spouting all this ‘new light’, as though it really is factual.
    And, at the end of the day, no one is supposed to know when ‘God’ is coming, so why do they keep trying to pin point it??

    • September 11, 2015 at 10:01 pm
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      @Ocma . Exactly as Jesus said he didn’t KNOW the DAY or HOUR !!! Matthew 24v34-36 BUT SILLY ME David SPLANE Knows MORE Than JESUS!!

      • September 13, 2015 at 5:46 pm
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        Ha! They just love to think they’re so clever, and they want everyone to know it, and gush over them. Nothing discreet about them. The GB is truly out of touch with reality.

  • September 11, 2015 at 8:34 pm
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    great post Ocma

  • September 11, 2015 at 9:17 pm
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    I also ask the same question, why Chuckie T. Russell was omitted and forgotten, since he was the founder of the IBSA, allegedly known today as JWs.

    Someone posted a link to IBSA, so I researched and found this, this is an excerpt and for informational purposes:

    Brother Russell Founded the Bible Students, not Jehovah’s Witnesses
    This early Bible Student history book is written by Bro. Ken Rawson, a Bible Student elder who knew more Bible Students from Pastor Russell’s and JF Rutherford’s time than any other Bible Student elder alive today.

    After the death of Pastor Russell in 1916, the purpose of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society changed drastically. Joseph Rutherford, whom Pastor Russell had recently dismissed from his staff, seized legal control of the Watch Tower, dismissed the majority of the Board of Directors, and established dictatorial authority. The Watch Tower became the central head and authority over all congregations willing to yield their sovereignty. Basic doctrines of the “new society” seriously digressed from the teachings of Pastor Russell as the writings of Pastor Russell were discarded. The methods of conducting the evangelistic work were altered. The more sensational digressions, such as refusing blood transfusion and saluting the flag, caught the public’s eye. But many individuals and whole congregations refused to surrender their Christian liberty or accept the new teachings. As early as 1917, the exodus from the newly declared sovereign headquarters
    began. By 1918 one-fourth of the Bible Students left Judge Rutherford and remained true to the teachings of the late Pastor Russell.

    Info found under history link, at IBSA.

    I did not know.

    Peace out,

  • September 11, 2015 at 9:31 pm
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    minion,
    Exactly!
    The truth is that JWs have only existed since 1931!
    They only mention Russell in their history for HISTORICAL DEPTH! Imagine in 1961 going door to door trying explain to people that your religion has only existed for 30 years.

  • September 11, 2015 at 9:35 pm
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    More people might want to check out the website of the International Bible Students Association and go to: Bible Students Are not Jehovah,s Witnesses.

    VERY MUST SEE STUFF!

    • September 12, 2015 at 8:52 pm
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      @ mcfan,

      Consider this:

      1). Chuckie T. Russell a Christian, not a JW.
      2). Judge Rutherford once a Christian, now an apostate made his own religion known as JWs.(1931)
      3). The man known as Jesus Christ was a Christian, not a JWs.
      4). IBSA the true enchilada, founded by Chuckie T. Russell still exist.
      5). Where do we go, someone asked? . . you decide.

      Lloyd keep the ‘true New Light shine ever brighter’.

      Peace out,

  • September 11, 2015 at 9:51 pm
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    Can someone explain Matthew 24:34 to me because what Mr. Splane says sounds utterly stupid but I just want a more elaborate answer. How could he think this scripture meant our generation?

  • September 12, 2015 at 4:47 am
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    To top it all off David Splane during his explanation of the Generations had the nerve to say “we are not saying this for sure but “Lets’s just assume for arguments sake”

Comments are closed.

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