The September JW Broadcasting episode is now available on tv.jw.org, and for any avid follower of goings-on at Watchtower this month’s offering from the ‘faithful and discreet slave’ is a must-watch.
Governing Body member David Splane addresses his audience on one of the many subjects best swept under the rug by Watchtower – the incomprehensible “overlapping generation” teaching.
Simply put, this teaching (which first appeared in the April 15, 2010 Watchtower) is a hastily-contrived get-out-of-jail-free card for the failed 1914 “this generation” teaching.
For decades Watchtower publications insisted that Armageddon was imminent because, they argued, the generation of anointed Witnesses (who believed they were going to heaven) who witnessed and understood the events of 1914 would not die out before Armageddon arrived.
This claim was based on Matthew 24:34, where Jesus told his followers that the generation that witnessed various apocalyptic signs would not die out until all his words, including the “great tribulation” (the prelude to Armageddon), came true.
So certain was Watchtower of this claim that it even had it included in its masthead for the Awake! magazine…
That is, until they quietly changed the masthead to read as follows…
Increasingly it became obvious that Watchtower’s self-imposed time limit on Armageddon had expired, because too much time had passed since 1914 for there to be any survivors among Jehovah’s Witnesses old enough to have memories of the outbreak of World War I. In fact, at the time of writing in September 2015, only 50 individuals older than 110 years old are known to still be alive.
“New light” was called for, and in 1995 and 2008 the organization made various stabs at squaring the circle. Paul Grundy has done a great job of documenting these fluctuating “understandings” on his JWfacts resource.
The most recent solution, as proposed by Watchtower in 2010 (and regurgitated by Splane in the above clip), is to essentially embellish Jesus’ words by suggesting that “this generation” doesn’t have to be just one generation, but can be two.
The first “group” of “this generation” would witness and understand the events of 1914, and the second group would be those who were born before the last individuals in the first group died (hence an “overlapping” generation).
If you don’t understand this, it is not due to any failure on your part. It is because it doesn’t make sense. The teaching rides roughshod over the English language, redefining what “generation” means, and relying on the audience to willfully bypass their logical thinking skills by asserting the incomprehensible as indisputable truth.
After all, if you can arbitrarily insist that a generation can be composed of two groups, why not have three, four, five – on into infinity? The word “generation” quickly loses all meaning.
The wisest course of action for Watchtower would have been to either distance itself from the “overlapping generation” teaching as a well-meaning slip-up (perhaps by arguing “this generation” was figurative rather than literal), or ignore the matter altogether.
Instead, the Governing Body apparently concluded that a 12-minute video presentation rehashing the teaching, complete with diagram and stick pointer, was just what the doctor ordered.
Their mistake is an inevitable byproduct of their delusion and bullish devotion to their own contrived dogma. It is, to my mind, further proof that the Governing Body are not cynical con-men but really do believe their own nonsense – and expect us to believe it too. Otherwise, they would have steered clear of the subject entirely, and spoken about something more compelling and universally appealing.
In addition to this obvious faux pas, I am also delighted at David Splane’s performance, which wreaked of cheesiness and insincerity…
As a side note – Splane is among three Governing Body members (together with Herd and Losch) who have apparently opted to deliver their JW Broadcasting episodes alongside “helpers” from the various Governing Body committees. The other Governing Body members (Lett, Morris, Sanderson and Jackson) tend to appear by themselves. I can’t help but question Splane’s decision to appear with a co-host, since he is in my view one of the more competent, persuasive speakers on the Governing Body. His uneasy interactions with his co-host only serve to undo the forcefulness of his individual presentation.
A costly mistake
When JW Broadcasting was first announced 11 months ago I said at the time it was great news. The worst thing the Governing Body could possibly do was reveal themselves to their doting followers. It is far easier to respect and admire your leaders when you can’t see or hear them. Having them thrusted at your TV screen or computer monitor in all their bumbling, arrogant, senile, jewelry-flashing glory changes the whole dynamic.
Yes, we have seen some extremely potent pieces of indoctrination designed to pull on the heart strings and appeal to people’s emotions. The standard episode will feature at least one visually appealing interview segment with powerful imagery and stirring music, in which a loyal Witness tears up as he or she relates how Jehovah’s hand has come to their rescue against all odds.
I will continue to do my best to expose these clearly coercive methods in my JW Broadcasting rebuttal videos. But I am growing increasingly confident that to any sincere, intellectually honest Witness capable of rudimentary reasoning skills, no rebuttals are needed. The delusion, absurdity and self-indulgence speaks for itself.
Further reading…
please exsplane
Kat,
You made my day with that wonderful pun!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
There have been court cases and govt. pronouncements in Russia recently in attempts to restrict the ministry of JWs in this country.
Despite this, when I click on the JW Broadcasting link, here in Moscow, I receive the full array of glossy and expensive JW stupidity complete with Russian text and Russian dubbed vids.
I completely agree with you on that they believe 100% that they are chosen by God…they are full-in…as Don Cameron says in his excellent book “Captives to a Concept” they are held captive to the concept that they are 100% chosen by God thus WHATEVER explanation or doctrine they produce has God’s backing, period.
Delusional or what.
As a side note on the many discussions going on about this on various forums the overlapping generation explanation given by Splane with charts that include Freddy Franz is interesting in that it cites 1992 as the cut off for the first group.
Splane also says ALL current GB members are part of the second group that overlapped Franz thus Mark Sanderson, at age 50, is part of the second group thus he must have proclaimed being anointed prior to 1992.
And if they teach that the Big A will come in the second group’s lifetime and IF Mark Sanderson lives to 80 or 90 then the Big A can be another 30 to 40 years away without the GB having the need to change the current overlapping generation teaching.
Clever.
Yes Dontknowwheretogo, the GB believe that anything that comes out of their own mouths must be from God. Not only the GB, but a lot of the elders too. I remember seeing it on the faces of some of those buffoons, after they said something they would have these self-assured smug look and you could hear the salient thought going through their primitive brian; I just said that! It must be true!
It’s unfortunate that they hurt so many trusting followers but it is satisfying to see themselves get taken in by their own lies.
The 144,000 is Jesus. Jesus = Yesus or Yes us, the 144,000. The Teragrammaton is Yahweh not “Jehovah” Jehovah is Barack Obama, genetic offspring of Aton aka Akhenaton (tetra (4) gram (measure) aton. The 4 measures of ATON (Akhenaton). YHWH is YaHuWeHe(r), the 144,000 elect Gods and Goddesses. The JW’s are like a broken clock; wrong most of the time but right twice a day. Russell was right, only 100 years early. Rutherford was a Vatican Jesuit infiltrator. The Watchtower is the tip if the spear for the communist NWO. Get out of Her My people…ALL of it…JC of the 144,000 an EX JW…
As crazy as it sounds, I look forward to every new jwbroadcast because they reinforce in me that I made the right decision to leave because so far, every one seems so very stupid and condescending to me.
Well said
I am fading after 50 years in jw . And find it incredible that they are still trying to make this fit .it obviously only appied to the events of A D 70 etc . They have now abandoned the type and antitype so that the whole interpretation of matt 24 could be in question
I dont understand why they dont just drop the generation explanations .they have got it wrong so many time the whole thing has become untenable . I asked my wife if she wanted to watch the broadcast . She said she never understood the previous explanation so she didnt wana see this one she been in since 60s like me. Im sure many jws would rather not go on about it . Wr discussed it she thinks it applied in first centry .
But not now it doesent make sense anymore . Why dont they just admit they got it wrong
Another great article, Cedars. As you wrote about how JW Broadcasting brings the leadership to the spotlight instead of allowing them to remain in the shadows, I was struck by the comparison to a recent visit to the Nazi Documentation Center in Nuremberg, Germany. This center documents the rise of the Nazi Party prior to the beginning of the Second World War. Virtually from the time that the Nazi Party took leadership, Hitler was kept away from the common people. He would appear from a far-off podium, from a high balcony, from an armored car. His interactions with the people were limited, the reason given in the museum was that the Nazi Party wanted to cultivate the myth of ‘a benevolent Father figure, who was slaving away and working at the expense of his own health and well-being for the prosperity of the German people.’ I’ve listened to some of Hitler’s speeches and it is obvious that he was a powerful and compelling orator, but the world also knows he was crazy. Perhaps the ‘Father’ myth was also a way to keep the general population from discovering just how crazy he was.
It will be interesting to see how the spotlight changes the rank-and-file membership’s view of the Governing Body. Will the myth of benevolent leadership, of the Faithful ‘Fathers’ of the Organization working their fingers to the bone at the expense of their own health and well-being for the betterment of God’s people, hold up? I agree with you, that these men believe what they are preaching, which makes it so chillingly powerful. And scary.
One point of vocabulary: I would use the term ‘critical thinking’ rather than ‘logical thinking’, it is a bit more accurate way to describe the thinking process you are writing of. :D
Thanks for your observations Tam. I chose “logical thinking” over “critical thinking” deliberately. ;)
Very clever cedars, it this kind of thing that can draw in still-ins…I applaud this.
“Draw in?” I prefer “help out.” :)
Critical thinking, would be more in lines of making a decision, doing the math before giving an answer. Logical thinking would be reasoning as to the need to do things the way your doing them. Neither need apply to the absolute distorting of scripture we see here. Proverbs 30:5,6 ” Every saying of God is refined. He is a shield to those taking refuge in him. Add NOTHING to his words, Or he will reprove you, And you will be proved a LIAR.” ——-copied and pasted straight from silver sword.—–
If only they could go back and double-check those Giza-pyramid measurements before making so many prophesies based on it.
A modern visionary of similar spirit had explained how such paradoxes (two generations being one) is perfectly possible. Its called Infinite Improbability. Research Douglas Adams. He too has quite a cult following and was able to breach most logical barriers in a perfectly valid and acceptable manner.
Do not be surprised to see the religion soon explode from a collection of 8-million psuedosheep to an infinite number of penguins.
Great point. After extensive research conducted over a span of 15 seconds, I am certain that the angle on the left of the parallelogram (8:58 on video) precisely corresponds to the angle of the faces of the great pyramid. It all makes sense now (head impacts desk).
If it weren’t for the physical books out there in the thousands, they would deny the entire pyramid debacle, hence Rutherford cleaning house only to make his own false prophecies in the 20’s, when the membership started to speak up shunning was created to deal with those waking up. A few more prophecies later and culminating in all those waking up after the 1975 episode, we get the Ray Franz generation of awakenings. As you can see by this article the false prophecies have not stopped and in the eyes of those of us who believe in Gods word, neither has the name given to those who claim God will do something and then he doesn’t.
I am exceedingly privileged to have come into the Christ having left the Jehovah’s Witnesses. I hope the same happens to those also who have been wounded.
In the words of James White ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru3GbBB_pIs ) many who leave the JWs never recover and end up as the “spiritually abused”. Its my hope that many who have been hurt can one day find the true comfort that is in Jesus.
Jesus is very different than what the JWs have portrayed. That religion is such a small spec in the history of apostacies and most insignificant in the shadow of the true shepherd.
I agree with you Cedars! I couldn’t believe that JW Broadcasting (or any other form of JW-dumb) would attempt to explain this teaching(?) or whatever else you call the ‘overlapping generation’.
I’ve been out for a while but when I was ‘in’ a few years ago, I never heard anyone talk about the overlapping generation or even the ‘adjustment’ to the generation thing. It felt like we all just wanted to ignore it since the big change in 1995, or whenever it was. Growing up, the generation of 1914 was a huge doctrine for all of us Jehovah’s Witnesses but it felt like it became an embraces net in the last couple of decades (has it been that long already?!?)
Why the Governing Body would feel the need to go over this just staggers my imagination!!! Regular Jehovah’s Witnesses seem to be smart enough to not talk about it, why would their leaders not realize that no one wants to touch this ‘hot potato’???
I love charts and graphs but this diagram was the most stupid thing that I’ve ever seen! It makes no sense! In fact, when I first saw the still shot of David Splaine with his pointer I thought it was a doctored (photoshopped) picture. That’s how ridiculous it looked. (How do you tell a moron that he’s a moron? I guess that you just can’t).
If this month’s broadcasting doesn’t wake up a few thousand people to get out of the JW World then I guess my estimation for human intelligence will just have to be taken down another notch or two.
@JJ . Good comments & Observations you made. But I feel your point about JW Human Intelligence has just dropped down a notch or two has just happened. My Mother in Law who is 82 & baptised in 1962 Thinks the ‘SPLANE DIAPHRAGM??’ Is wonderful & really makes the Overlapping Generation easily understood!!’ I reminded her that in 1975 the ‘ Generation ‘ teaching by the F& D slave then was to be no more than 70 or 80 years . Then in 1995 it was A CONTEMPORARY GENERATION of wicked People until 2010 !
She gave me that WITHERING APOSTATE LOOK!
It’s FRIGHTENING & SCARY how normally reasoning humans can be DUPED!! Very Very SAD !
I always find the overlapping generation funny. Jesus used illustrations his audience of that time could easily understand. Some how I can not see the people Jesus was talking to sitting together and saying to themselves, wait a minute is\was Jesus talking about our generation or a generation which is overlapping with ours? :-)
You mean this didn’t happen?
http://i.imgur.com/j9wjYEa.jpg
@ Anonymous – that jpg is hilarious! LOL!
This has the air of desperation about it…..
As the leading JW doctrinician, it appears Splane had to face the music when it came to publicly explain the inexplicable, to defend the indefensible; he drew the short straw.
Can you imagine the reaction to this by an uninitiated audience in a public forum?
My sentiments too, Nemorino.
What dreadful patronising bilge from yet another GB member.
These words are so far away from a belief in a loving creator. Notice the flippant way he flings away words like ‘famines’, ‘wars’, etc, as if these terms do not signify unimaginable suffering for human beings.
I try not to get overwhelmed by sadness at the cruelty this WT Soc disseminates, but sometimes it’s hard. Then I remember that those of us who are not under its thrall have the power and commitment to keep spotlighting its heinous propaganda. I’m going to keep fighting.
God bless, Explorer.
They would swallow it.
every truth is like light, its brightness is becoming brighter over time.
(Proverbs 4:18) But the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light That grows brighter and brighter until full daylight
Baby,
Welcome back again!
I am still waiting for answers to my questions on a previous topic, please.
Your comment makes no sense. Either something is true or it isn’t.
The scripture in Proverbs you quoted is not talking about Divine Inspiration, but contrasts a righteous with an unrighteous man. What was your point? Simply throwing a scripture down is just not sufficient.
Have you read my comment about Matthew1:17, Baby? What are your thoughts on it?
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Baby, your god channel uses Prov. 4:18 as an excuse, period. 100 years from now (and think about it, because the overlapping generation could be another 100 years or more…) they will still be using it. Jesus was an end times preacher, just like the WT is. Do you honestly believe that he was hyping the end times to his live audience knowing that the end would not be for another 1900 plus years? That is what you are inadvertently consenting to believing. If so, then your precious GB could be doing the same thing, stringing you along, hyping the “end of days” in order to gain more converts.
ROFL- He drew the short straw
Folks,
The definition of a generation is provided in Matthew 1: 17
According to this, there were 14 generations from the Babylonian exile to the birth of Jesus.
If we take the WTBTS’ erroneous date of 607, we count back to 1. 607 divided by 14 is 43.357142 for one generation.
So, if the morons in the WTBTS are correct, Armageddon should have been and gone in 1957!
If we take the correct year for the Banylonian exile of 589, we get a generation of just over 42 years!
Jesus said that the generation who he preached to would see the destruction of Jerusalem, and they did. These events fit into the time frame set out in Matthew 1.
The WTBTS have only themselves to blame! This verse is very easy to calculate from. There is no excuse for their stupid beliefs.
I stole this from Spike R on you tube!
I thought that these governing body members were supposed to be bible scholars? What a joke they all are!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Oh, so true, Excelsior! Thank you for that so basic, so simple reasoning. But it means the R&F have to think for themselves, something they’re not capable of doing. So so glad I can live a life that isn’t under the control of the seven popes.
This is the first time I’ve felt compelled to actually watch one of these broadcasts. It was this whole incomprehensible, contrived redefinition of the word ‘generation’ that broke the camel’s back for me, the redefinition of the ‘faithful and discreet slave’ drove the final nails in the coffin. I asked a friend who has been in Bethel for many years what he thought of it and he shook his head and said ‘who knows’. It should be plainly obvious to any thinking person that if you need to use the word ‘generation’ twice in the definition of the word ‘generation’ something is off. Another fine analysis of the nonsense that the ‘slave’ is force-feeding the blinded, delusional masses. Never lose sight of the fact that we were there once, real truth wants to be heard and hopefully it is only a matter of time when it is all so obvious (like it isn’t already?) that the mass exodus begins. Thanks for your hard work Lloyd!
The boat has sunk and they’re flailing about like drowning men,
looking for any piece of the wreck to hang on to.
every truth is like light, its brightness is becoming brighter over time.
(Proverbs 4:18) But the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light That grows brighter and brighter until full daylight
Baby, I hate to break it to you but Proverbs 4:18 has nothing to do with prophetic understanding or even reading the bible. In fact there is no bible verse that sets a precedent for God telling his worshipers something that isn’t true merely to tide them over until truth is later revealed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=813cAd8RWmQ
I think you don’t understand nothink at all what Spane said or explain. You only oppose but you understand not. Can you show one verse that contradicts what he said?
You can say the interpretations are not truth, ok, but can you show what you say from the Bible?
every truth is like light, its brightness is becoming brighter over time
@Baby . CAN YOU SHOW IN The BIBLE Where GENERATION MEANS OVERLAPPING????
Baby, I have been in the “truth” for fifty years and I have been keeping up with all the new “light” so can you explain it better than Splane because no, I don’t get it. Obviously you are a whole lot smarter than we are so please explain it so we can understand the overlapping generation and how anybody who was “anointed” by 1992 means that as long as they were anointed by 1992 (or thereabouts) then they fit into the overlapping generations and that means that the Great Tribulation means that it’s about to happen any minute now.
Don’t accuse us of being so stupid that we can’t understand it when you can. Please explain it to us then.
1 Timothy 1:4
or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work–which is by faith.
JW are trying to teach things that are reserved to God showing no respect to God
@Baby . YOUR VOCABULARY & GRAMMAR ARE APPALLING!! Where in the Oxford English Dictionary does it contain the word ‘NOTHINK’
Then Again I suppose I should expect this Illogical thinking & Spelling from a SUPPORTER of The GB!!!
You forget they are now pushing for home schooling jw youth, lest they be exposed critical thinking and logic. Watchtower 33:78 skool bad boogymen brain big make.
@Baby,
I’m not going to attack your belief or your grammer, but I do want you to think about the following.
The passage in Proverbs Chapter 4 that is often referred to and used so much by the Watchtower leadership is not used in context by the Watchtower. The WT leadership uses a portion of this scripture, not the whole scripture, to reconcile mistakes and lies. The WHOLE scripture when read in context (reading the whole paragraph in which it is contained) is referring to a wise man using wisdom and a fool not heading wisdom. The passage DOES NOT refer to knowledge given in small doses and knowledge that changes over time. Read the whole paragraph and you’ll see what I’m talking about.
With that, understand I am not trying to prove you wrong, but want you to see how the GB and WT leadership use pieces and parts of scripture to deceive the rank and file membership.
It’s because your reading the (a) portion of the verse, the (b) is not to be read or the argument falls apart, come on! All speakers know this.
Baby asked: “Can you show one verse that contradicts what he said?”
Well actually ya I can. Matthew 24:34 says “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.”
Can you show us one verse where Jesus said this “overlapping generation will not pass away”?
Great commentary, Lloyd, However, I believe theirs more substance needed or lack thereof for the first time visitor to jwsurvey. Looking for the explanition of what they just viewed. Things to research or to question, such as:
1) Chuckie (Charles) T. Russell was born on Feb, 16, 1852. Founder of IBSA aka jw, is he not part of the anointed and why he was not included in the chart?
Is WT Corp trying to separate itself from Chuckie? If so, why?
2) The get out of jail card alluded to, for the failed 1914 predictions. The first time visitor needs to understand why? Because, Chuckie had predicted and was teaching ,the kingdom rule of Jesus started in 1874, and the end of the world or the Big A would come in 1914.
3) They would be rapture to heaven.
4) Then the dates started to move forward, 1918, 1925, 2015, and so forth. And now WT Corp has a big problem explaining something that’s not there, it does not exist. Even though WT Corp believes ‘you don’t know everything about jws’.
5) First time visitor, ever wonder why WT Corp admonishes its followers Not to visit web sites as these – apostates or even the news media? You decide, (the band-aid is about to fall off).
Something interesting for the first time viewer to jwsurvey needs to see and understand, is we are reporting the facts, call it as we see it and You decide. All the friends here are real, the comments are real and sometimes brings tears to your eyes. We don’t make this up.
WT Corp, DaUnexplane cited scripture of Matt.24:34, key words to focus, its right there, you see it, there, its reads “this generation”. Back in the day, just a few weeks ago (lol) in sckool, I was taught singular means singular = one or single, not, wait for it, ” over lapping “. Also too, we are encouraged to always read the context of scripture to understand ” logical thinking “. Jesus also talked with simplicity and using illustrations. I wonder if he used any charts, nah.
Are you convince, does the explanation make any sen$e? Is this another flop from WT Corp?, are these 7 men trying to out wit each other, You decide.
Peace out,
Yes, how can you be the boss and hide behind curtains as your subjects enjoy the limelight. They just couldn’t stand it. It was simply too much. Now they’re trying to make an appearance everywhere for conventions.
every truth is like light, its brightness is becoming brighter over time.
(Proverbs 4:18) But the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light That grows brighter and brighter until full daylight
@BABY . THE GB DARKNESS is GETTING DARKER & DARKER !!! LITTLE BABY PROVERB ???
Baby,
Simply quoting the same discredited bible passage at people will convince no one of your opinion!
How about your opinion on Matthew 1:17 instead of repetitious comments? You asked us to prove FROM THE BIBLE that Mr Splane is incorrect. I quote FROM THE BIBLE and I would appreciate a response from you on this scripture, NOT another misapplication of a Proverb!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
I’m afraid that none of us are convinced of your point of view!
Stop feeding the troll! Since when has any self-respecting true believer JW been capable of critical thinking or logical deduction at any level? ‘Baby’ may as well be a machine, all ‘Baby’ is capable of is parroting the same little phrase over and over like every other JW who is confronted with an unanswerable question or problem that might cause intelligent thought in any other reasonable person capable of thinking without being told what to think. Thought control at its finest!
or in the words of Timbuk3 “The future’s so bright, I gotta wear shades”
Thanks Lloyd another very good article.
Hmmm next time i pass JW cart i get them to try and explain this – its probably a dreaded question that a lot of JWs dont really want
I understand that with time you get better understanding but in the JW case their overlapping generation teaching is outright lie.
Where in the Bible Jesus refers to overlapping generations?
Common sense and Bible knowledge tells that a generation is a period of 37-40 years. So instead that humbly saying that they were wrong they distort deliberately Jesus words over and over again. Shame on the GB!
I am less than convinced that this teaching does any sort of violence to the English Language. I AM convinced it does violence to the Koine Greek that the gospels were written in. However, it’s patently obvious from one quick glance at the WBTS’s translation of the NT that no one at the WBTS, much less the governing body, actually reads Koine, so I’m not at all surprised.
There are no such a thing as “The end of the world” as the Jw´s and other totalitarian Cults believe!
Keep yourselves like men who are watching for their master to return from the marriage feast so that, when he comes and knocks, you may quickly open to him. Such watchful servants are blessed by the master who finds them faithful at such a great moment. Then will the master make his servants sit down while he himself serves them. Verily, verily, I say to you that a crisis is just ahead in your lives, and it behooves you to watch and be ready.
“You well understand that no man would suffer his house to be broken into if he knew what hour the thief was to come. Be you also on watch for yourselves, for in an hour that you least suspect and in a manner you think not, shall the Son of Man depart.”
Urantia Book, Paper 165.
Thats right, the Son of man would depart, NOT arrive at this moment. Even though he said he would come again, it certainly will not have to do with “the end of the world” as fundamental Christians believe!
The list of end time predictions and apocalyptic charlatans is huge.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events
The JW are probably the ones with the most failures. All this failures indicates that they are not spirit directed but they are presumptuous.
Deuteronomy 18:22
If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.
Side Note: I got stumped when he said that a baby that was born 10 minutes after Joseph died did not live at the same time. I thought JW’s were big on life beginning at inception? So wouldn’t someone who died 10 minutes before Joseph was born or 10 minutes after he died still be part of this generation?
I am stumbled because now the Governing Body doesn’t believe that a baby is alive in the mother’s womb when clearly the scriptures talk about how John the Baptizer leaped in the womb!
I just want to know what the possible significance is of the diagonally-oriented candy stripes on the chart. Why not vertical? Is the sixty-degree angle a throwback to pyramid geometry? Ha! When was the last time you saw timelines that overlapped in this manner?
Okay I’m having a moment of silliness here,
So let me get “this” straight…”this” doesn’t mean what I thought “this” meant. I thought “this” meant “to identify a specific person or thing close at hand or being indicated or experienced”. Bro. Splane says “this” generation is something we have to figure out who “this” is. I guess the GB has the authority to change dictionary definitions…haha. So “this” comment is written on “this” blog and “this” is the end. Let the reader use discernment, haha.
Into which generation would Splane assign someone born AFTER Joseph but who predeceases him?
Hey since my parents were in their 20’s and part of the “hippie generation ” I guess since I am alive At the same time as them. I MUST BE PART OF THE HIPPIE GENERATION ? Anyone with half a brain knows that a “generation ” is a spell of time when something or someone was prominent . And for a person it is the main part of their life (20-60 yrs old) I was alive when Elvis was still alive , but I certainly was not part of the “Elvis generation “, no, those people around his age and enjoying his music when he was in his heyday , ARE PART IF HIS GENERATION , not an infant that happened to be born a year or two before he died . I don’t “carry” Elvis’ generation another 50 years WITH ME !!! This is retarded! One of the main reasons I stopped preaching . Can’t instruct others in stuff that is unbelievable
I forgot to mention that when discussing with an elder about Jesus being given “all” authority, I was told I didn’t have the correct understanding of “all”. So this comment goes out to “all y’all”… I have the same understanding as several of you with respect to Prov. 4:18. When considering surrounding scriptures “this” verse is contrasting the righteous and unrighteous. When sticking to the righteous path it becomes clearer and brighter that it’s the best path to follow. I am unaware of any scriptures that suggest we are to manipulate dates to come to1914. And besides, 2 Chronicles 36:20-21 speaks of the 70 years being fulfilled when the royalty of Persia began to rule and wbts own literature tells us that was in 539 BC that Babylon was captured. That leads to 609 BC. Again why do we think those dates have a bearing on Christ’s rulership? After his resurrection he said he had “all” authority. Also scriptures such as Eph. 1:19-21, Col. 2:10, 1 Pet. 3:22 speak of him having authority over angels, powers, governments and so on. Hebrews 10:13 does speak of him waiting. The way my husband explained this is Christ is waiting to see the results of his kingdom as his word is spread and more and more learn about him. (Leaven in flour illustrating growth of the kingdom, all the while Jesus is in control.) Just as a doctor is in control of your treatment, but when he prescribes medication he must wait to see the results of the treatment. This has helped me to reason on things that could have been quite confusing were I to still have wbts blinders on. The scriptures tell us when there is a turning to God, the veil is removed. I started out fighting these various lines of reasoning. Didn’t always like the conclusions I was reaching but I figured believing unscriptural teachings wasn’t going to benefit me and I do like the freedom I’ve gained. Anyway just a few thoughts I wanted to share. See if anyone else has had similar conclusions.
When we start handing out assurances as to what is not obvious in Gods word, we become no better than the subjects of this article. We stop seeing the forest, because the trees are in our way. That has been the downfall of Christianity in all its denominations. Why can’t we do something simple like living by the golden rule and acquiring knowledge of his word as was asked of us and not trying to mold it in any way. Just share Jesus story without the agendas.
If they had the single interpretation of the generation changed many items (something that can be tested) imagine what certainty there can be that their points (which cannot be tested) supporting the 1914 doctrine are true.
There are many interpretations that must be absolutely correct for their organization to be right. If one falls the entire house falls apart.
It is clear that they are investing their lives in a distorted vision destroying the lives of people who have decided to stop believing on a bunch of speculations.
In Jesus words I see intelligence something that I cannot see in the JW.org teachings.
Hey Cedars, I enjoy your videos but I have a bit of a technical issue. The intros are relatively loud while your speech is very low. Could you balance the audio level a bit? I noticed on the above video that you added subtitles which helps. In case you’re wondering, it’s nowhere near as annoying as the feedback screech we used to get every time the audio was switched on at the kingdom hall. lol
With early videos the intros and outros were unusually loud. All of my more recent videos have quieter intros/outros.
God that was painful to watch. Even if I were still going to the meetings, this one would scream out ‘bullshlt’ and I imagine there are a number of JWs (especially older ones) who must realize what a crock this is.
Here’s another example that shows just how ludicrous this ‘overlapping generation’ is: Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother was born in 1900 and died in 2002. Prince William was born in 1982 (I think). His life overlapped with his great-grandmothers. Let us assume that he inherits longevity and lives another 70 years to around the year 2085.
Even though there is 185 years difference between them, if you use Crooklyn’s bizarre logic, that means that Prince William was of the same generation as his great-grandmother. The stupidity of this can hardly be measured yet that is exactly what they’re trying to pawn off as ‘present truth’ right now. And sadly, they’ll be JWs that actually fall for it.
Mary, I can’t think of a better illustration to show what bull***t the overlapping doctrine is!!! I will remember it and use it. And Lol, I love your illustration also!!!
Mary….excellent thinking…I think you could outwit David Splane…what a load of nonsense he talks…My mother believed it…my father believed it…my spouse believes it…all my children believe it…and when I asked an elder to explain it he tried…and when I still looked puzzled…he said…I dont really understand it either, but its come from the GB so just accept it…..well Mary now I can explain using your example…I wonder what he will say….
I had a look at a Greek interlinear and Strongs 3778,
in the Greek ‘this’ follows ‘generation’.
I am far from expert in Greek that’s why I have these books, but subject to other opinions I see it as ‘this’=’same man’ and/or ‘same woman’?
Thanks for the insight.You have helped my wife and me so much.keep up the good work.
Oh this broadcast has pegged the needle on my Baloney Meter! Where do I begin!
First, I would call this in mathematical terms, EXTRAPOLATION. The WEBSTER definition of extrapolation, “In mathematics, extrapolation is the process of estimating, beyond the original observation range, the value of a variable on the basis of its relationship with another variable.” In a sense, Splane is extrapolating the generation to ‘overlap’ another generation. Hmmm. “Estimating beyond the original observation range…”? When a prediction is extrapolated, the inaccuracy of the prediction doesn’t get more accurate; it gets less accurate. Basically, the light isn’t getting brighter, it’s getting dimmer.
Next, Splane jumps to a grand conclusion at about the 7 minute mark after asking many questions and setting up many definitions. He says that all ‘these things’ became apparent in 1914. Again, Hmmmm. He and his ‘contemporaries’ (Including the nut job Freddy Franz) aren’t a good study of actual world history. Nation rising against nation, famines, disease plagues, and the like has been happening since history began and unfortunately will continue as long as there is a human race. NEWS FLASH: It didn’t start in 1914!!!! He goes on to talk down to all others who didn’t have the recognition that ‘these things’ were happening in 1914; as if they were dumb children that couldn’t possibly comprehend such a premonition. This is to say that he, as an overlapping contemporary of the 1914 group, can only discern the Big A is to come ‘soon’.
Lastly, Splane redefines generation with a very roundabout explanation. He starts by baiting the audience to look up a scripture reference to define ‘generation’. Then quickly jumps to the Joseph and his bros explanation. Well, he said it! It must be the right! Right? No! You would have to be smoking dope to buy that explanation. I believe that Excelsior gives us a much more plausible definition of what a biblical generation truly means. Splane’s splainin’ shows the extent these weasels will go to cover their mistakes and deceive the masses.
How could splane actually hold a straight face and just spill this like it was fact? It must actually think that if he says it, then it must be fact. Any thinking person would know this is speculation at best and purposeful deception at worst. How can people actually believe this knucklehead and fellow knucklehead’s (i.e. the Governing Body) have all the answers? The whole thing was absolutely disgusting!
Last paragraph should have said, “HE must actually….” not “It must actually…”
Anyway, you get my drift.
They’re desperate to ditch 1914, it’s a noose they’ve made
for their own necks that’s getting tighter all the time and must
eventually finish them off.
But they’re stuck with it. No 1914,= no Parousia, no inspection
of all religions by Jesus, and no choosing of the bible students
( Russellites) as his exclusive channel of communication to all
mankind. No 1914 the whole thing dissolves into thin air.
Ray Franz, in his book, “Crisis of Conscience” chap, 10. Makes
us privy to the GBs, decades long struggle with this problem.
GB members, Karl Klein, and Grant Suiter, proposed moving the
year to 1957 when the Russians sent up the Sputnik ( Signs in the
Sun and Moon ) were cited .
The then president, Nathan Knorr said “I know that Jehovah is God
and that Jesus is his son and that he gave his life as a ransom for us
and that there will be a Ressurection . As for 1914, I don’t if we’re
right, I hope we are !” They were baffled then, and now they’re
desperate.
I can’t help thinking that if any ordinary member had expressed
themselves in the doubtful manner of those GB men and even the
the president, the Supremo. They would have been cut off
and shunned.
Wrt people bringing this to the attention of the GB two names come to mind: Carl Olof Jonsson who wrote an entire book on the errant chronology of the WTS “Gentile Times Revisited” after he presented to the GB a 100+ page thesis on the subject and Alan Fuerbacher who has written several fine articles on the subject. Both inquired of Brooklyn providing reams of documented research showing how tainted and skewed the society’s chronology is and I know that one if not both have been df’d for not recanting their heresy.
They are for fact NOT stuck with 1914, it is dead horse they keep beating for no reason. They didn’t predict the date, so they have no obligation whatsoever to hold to it, other than to keep the whole sky is falling agenda. They could very easily transition into an organization that has collectively learned to wait on God and leave it at that, while keeping the majority of the membership and its enthusiasm for the preaching work. I for one love the preaching, it was the preaching bs that I can’t stomach. I keep my preaching work strictly biblical, praying this organization remembers true north some day.
hi there, what mess is this!? i quote a little something for you from Scott Marmion canto6 “Ah dastard fool,” to reason lost,……. Oh, what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive!. i remember when freddy franz died i was told it was an end of an era because he was the last in the direct line of charlie taze so what.Now we have yet another revision. i reckon JC is having a field day with these ninnies, its becoming laughable . when we were hurt they still had a grip , now they are clowning around well we are eyes wide open and havin a larf ha ha, so kingdom smile anyone? mine’s a large gin and tonic, im smiling.
Maybe they were called, Watchtower Bible and tract society
of Pennsylvania, when they claim they were chosen and not
Bible Students, or Russelites. But most of that group made
up the WTS, What’s in a name ? says Shakespeare.
Enjoyed your article as always Cedars, nice to have you back and sharing your commentaries once again.
I remember when this new teaching first came out, I was discussing it with my fleshly brother who was and still serves as an elder. I expressed my confusion with the WT explanation. My brother said that he doesn’t understand the new teaching and I said, “obviously neither does the GB, it just does not make any sense”. He was offended at my comment and his reply was “well I just don’t question it!” My only reaction was WOW. This pretty much sums up how the rank and file view complex teachings they do not understand. They just go along and do not question with the GB and just accept it with blind faith…dangerous.
Splane out and out lied when he claimed that the only ones who saw the sign knew something “invisible” was happening. According the the book “Light” volume one by Rutherford published in 1930 said on page 194:
“The Watch Tower, and its companion publications of the Society, for forty years emphasized the fact that 1914 would witness the establishment of God’s kingdom and the complete glorification of the church. During that period of forty years God’s people on earth were carrying on a witness work, which work was foreshadowed by Elijah and John the Baptist. All of the Lord’s people looked forward to 1914 with joyful expectation. When that time came and passed there was much disappointment, chagrin and mourning, and the Lord’s people were greatly in reproach. They were ridiculed by the clergy and their allies in particular, and pointed to with scorn, because they had said so much about 1914, and what would come to pass, and their ‘prophecies’ had not been fulfilled.
……page 196:
“Has the kingdom begun in any sense of the word? (We so believe). We (think) that the light now going forth is under the direction of the Captain of our Salvation. We (think) that the present distress amongst the nations is merely the beginning of this time of trouble.”
That book Light #1 was printed in 1930 (sixteen years after World War #1 broke out) and Rutherford said that they “thought” that the kingdom had begun. They sure don’t sound like they “knew” that the kingdom rule had begun in 1930 but they did look like fools in 1915 when Armageddon didn’t come in 1914 like they had predicted so in order to save face, they came up with the excuse that the rule was “invisible”. Since it was “invisible”, it is so easy to claim it happened since nobody can actually see something that is invisible.
Fred Franz and his brother (Ray Franz’s father) were both baptized in 1913. I bet it was so they’d not be killed at Armageddon in November of 1914 like the Society had predicted. Fred was 20 (not a kid either).
@Anonymous. Also in the ‘Light’ Book Rutherford was still holding to Christs Presence being 1874 & it wasn’t until 1943 that Knorr just after Rutherfords Death that Christs Presence changed to 1914 !!
WELCOME To The CRAZY EVER CHANGING INTERPRETATIONs of the ‘CRAZY SEVEN ‘ Men of the GB. !!