Jehovah’s Witnesses have long pointed the finger at other religions for being hierarchical, but what does a close examination of their own organization reveal?

As a young boy growing up in the Witness faith, I was taught to think of my religion as an organization with a level playing field, where everyone enjoyed an equal standing before God. Whenever photos were published of the Governing Body, it was always pointed out how approachable and “grandfatherly” they appeared – as though you could walk up to any member and ask him anything!

It was the same with elders, Circuit Overseers and District Overseers. Sure, these men all had lofty titles, but when it all boiled down to it, they were supposed to be no different from ordinary publishers – just with slightly different privileges of service.

As I grew up and began to see different facets of the organization in closer detail, it gradually became obvious that true equality among the brothers was something that existed in theory rather than in practice. A typical example of this could be seen during the twice-yearly Circuit Overseer’s visit, with all the hype and furore surrounding the arrival of a single man and his wife. I could see brothers and sisters bending over backwards to impress this supposedly humble representative of the Society – putting on elaborate dinners for him, taking him on their most impressive calls and bible studies, laughing at his awful jokes, and generally acting all prim and proper whenever in his presence.

Even as an indoctrinated publisher I could see that certain brothers are venerated over others

Even so, regardless of the fact that I saw little practical evidence of true equality among the brothers, I generally accepted the idea that all Witnesses are equal – and that there is no “hierarchy” in our faith. In fact, this wasn’t just an idea circulated among publishers – it was a core concept that was actively promoted in our publications. Other religions may operate a “hierarchical structure,” but not Jehovah’s cleansed people! We are different from false religion. Hierarchical religions, most notably the Catholic Church, are to be vilified and exposed for their “worldly” organizational politics.

To demonstrate, consider the following quotes from the Society’s publications over the decades, each of which denounce the concept of a hierarchical religious structure, or describe it in disapproving terms…

“In contrast with many religious groups in Christendom, Jehovah’s Witnesses do not decide for themselves the form of spiritual government under which they operate. These sincere Christians endeavor to stick to Jehovah’s standards. Overseers among them are not put into office by some congregational, hierarchical, or presbyterian form of church government.” (w01 1/15 p13)

“Sadly, over the centuries this elevated, selfless concept of ministers as self-sacrificing preachers and teachers was distorted. What began as the Christian ministry evolved into a formal, hierarchical institution. Orders and ranks were formed, and they were invested with prestige and power and often accumulated great wealth. This created divisions.” (g00 7/8 p27)

“There was the question of who should serve as elders and deacons in the congregations. To get away from the hierarchical structure prevalent in Christendom, it was concluded that these should be elected democratically by the vote of the members of each congregation.” (w95 5/15 p22)

“As time went by, the number of those claiming to be Christians rose to the millions and then to the hundreds of millions. They developed different kinds of church government, such as hierarchical, presbyterian, and congregational. However, neither the conduct nor the beliefs of these churches reflected the rulership of Jehovah. They were not theocracies!” (w94 1/15 p14)

“Especially since 1919, the enthroned King Jesus Christ has developed a fine condition amid his followers on earth. He has placed among them ‘princes’ (Hebrew, sarim) who do indeed furnish just and loving oversight. In contrast with the oppressive and self-serving rulers so general throughout the world, the King in God’s organization has raised up responsible men who are not revered as hierarchical ‘princes of the church,’ or the like.” (w84 5/15 p16)

“This fading of Christian watchfulness prompted apostate Christians to organize themselves into a well-structured church whose eyes were no longer fixed on the coming parousia, or presence, of Christ but, rather, on dominating its members and, if possible, the world. The New Encyclopædia Britannica states: ‘The [apparent] delay of the Parousia resulted in a weakening of the imminent expectation in the early church. In this process of ‘de-eschatologizing,’ [weakening of the teaching on the ‘Last Things’] the institutional church increasingly replaced the expected Kingdom of God. The formation of the Catholic Church as a hierarchical institution is directly connected with the declining of the imminent expectation.” (w84 12/1 p6)

“In the latter part of the 19th century, the Bible Students had a democratic way of governing their congregations; they wanted to get away from an autocratic hierarchical system.” (w81 12/1 p25)

“One’s qualifying as an ‘elder’ or ‘overseer’ was not a matter of ascending a hierarchical ladder, starting with the lowest rung. Catholic theologian Legrand writes: ‘The ordained ministry is not a cursus honorum [race for honors] to be run like climbing the rungs of a hierarchical ladder. In fact, the word hierarchy is not to be found in the Bible.'” (g76 9/8 p27)

“The above-mentioned Thascius Caecilius Cyprian was the bishop of the church in Carthage, Africa. He was born about 200 C.E. and died in 258 C.E. He was a clergyman, called here ‘the father of the hierarchical system,’ one of the body of clergy that existed not much more than a century after the death of Christ’s apostles and their close associates. From that time on, throughout the ‘Dark Ages,’ into the time of the Reformation and the beginning of the Protestant Churches, and down to the present, this clergy-laity distinction has existed in Christendom.” (w75 4/1 p202)

“What wonder, then, that intelligent persons of today who are informed on the kind of rule that prevailed during the time of the popish ‘theocracy’ cannot stomach the thought of God’s rule being about to come, if God’s rule means the restoration of such a hierarchical rule!” (w68 10/15 p618)

“Who, then, is doing the discipling work today? There can be no doubt of this. It is the Christian witnesses of Jehovah. The revival of the work of making disciples is to be found in that organization in these last days. They have freed themselves from the constricting creeds and contaminating false doctrines of the nominal churches. They have freed themselves from the hierarchical, congregational and all other forms of church rule that are unscriptural and they are governed by theocratic rule.” (w66 4/1 p205)

“Interesting is the fact that, though forced to meet underground, those primitive Christians by no means kept their light hidden there. As Christ had commanded, they lifted it high on ‘lampstands’ by a work of public testimony. Though this drew the infuriated malice of many, it introduced untold hope to others who proceeded to associate with the Christian community. Charles Maitland, in The Church in the Catacombs, singles out this proselytizing nature of the Christians as the greatest aggravating factor of their persecution, because of which other charges were trumped up by the authorities. Their harmlessness can be seen in that for the mere reason of secretly celebrating the Lord’s Supper they suffered an official ban. From what can be told by the ancient inscriptions those Christians scorned the hierarchical structure which papal Rome copied from pagan Rome.” (w51 8/15 p486)

“With such a breadth of meaning and variety of application of the Hebrew word sar we can appreciate how the heavenly King reigning in righteousness could have his visible servants on the earth during this perilous time and how these would occupy the position corresponding with what Isaiah 32:1 speaks of as princes (sarím). They would not hold such princely office inside the political systems of this world, because, although they are in the world, they are no part of the world. Neither would they have any such combined political, hierarchical offices such as the higher clergy of the Roman Catholic religious system hold, so that they are called ‘princes of the church.'” (w51 12/1 p721)

As can be clearly seen from the above quotes, the hierarchical structure long-ago adopted by the Catholic Church has been routinely denounced by the Society as unscriptural, autocratic, divisive and prone to encouraging corruption.

But what is a hierarchy? One definition describes it as: “an organizational structure where every entity in the organization, except one, is subordinate to a single other entity. This arrangement is a form of a hierarchy.” This unmistakably describes the Catholic Church, with the Pope at the top – answerable to no one. Certainly in all my years growing up in the organization I never thought of it as a fair way of describing the organizational structure of Jehovah’s Witnesses. After all, we are God’s true organization, and therefore unique from all other religions! We have Christ as our leader, and we receive instruction from God’s holy spirit through the Faithful Slave and its representative Governing Body!

Reality sinks in

Then in 2011 I woke up and was finally able to see the organization for what it truly is – just one of many hierarchical Christian denominations claiming to have the sole backing of God. Once I learned to reason for myself, I could plainly see that there was absolutely no relationship between the Faithful and Discreet Slave class (those claiming to be anointed) and the Governing Body, who claimed to humbly serve as their representatives. In reality, it was the small number of men on the Governing Body who were pulling all the strings, without conferring with anyone else. The Faithful Slave teaching was just their “cover story.”

By revealing their “new light” about the faithful slave, the Governing Body has awarded itself Pope-like status

Then, in October last year (2012), things took an unexpected twist. The Governing Body ditched the idea that all anointed ones make up the Faithful and Discreet Slave, and declared that only they could be so identified. In making this change, many would argue that they were only acknowledging what was already widely recognized – that the Governing Body are the only ones dispensing “spiritual food,” and have been for some time. Ordinary anointed ones have never really had any say in what is published in the literature.

Though somewhat predictable, for myself and many like-minded individuals this change was profound. The Society had, without great fanfare, neatly removed the last distinction between themselves and other hierarchical religions such as the Catholic Church. Previously, they had hidden behind the Faithful and Discreet Slave doctrine as an excuse to wield power. Now it was surplus to requirements. They declared themselves to be God’s sole channel, giving themselves Pope-like authority in the process.

The changes start to take effect

And it wasn’t long before this authority started to be drilled home unmistakably in our literature. Take a look at this recent illustration from the April 13th Watchtower on page 29…

It doesn’t take a genius to see what is being depicted in this illustration. This is a clear and unambiguous example of a hierarchy – right down to the numbering of the various groups or positions. It is a list of the various operational elements of the Watch Tower Society in a descending order of importance. When you look closely, you notice that even the chairs are more comfortable the higher up the ladder you happen to be! Governing Body members get plush leather executive chairs, while branch office members must make do with plain office swivel chairs. If you are an elder, you can consider yourself lucky to get a school canteen chair! Evidently the more privileged you are in God’s organization, the more seat padding you require.

The Governing Body is now so comfortable with its authority that it sees nothing inappropriate about identifying the individual members on an organizational chart

But there are other things that are noticeable about this illustration on close inspection. You notice that the current Governing Body members have vainly had their likenesses depicted in the illustration so that, when you look closely enough, they are individually recognizable.

Perhaps of most striking significance is the one notable absentee from the illustration – Jesus Christ. True, the Society would likely argue that this is a picture depicting the earthly part of God’s organization, and Christ is in the heavenly part. Even so, this hasn’t stopped the Society from depicting Jehovah on his heavenly chariot in the same illustration. Even some of the angels are present. So why no Jesus? Especially if he is supposed to be “head of the congregation?” (Eph. 5:23)

The answer is simple. Christ plays no role whatsoever in this organization and never actually has. His absence from this illustration may well be an oversight, but it is a telling one. The Governing Body is well and truly in charge, and they want us to know it. They take their orders from nobody but themselves. In this way, they are really no different from the Pope. In fact, take a look at this diagram I have prepared, which I believe demonstrates quite clearly that the hierarchical structures of the Catholic Church and Watch Tower Society are now eerily similar.

If you are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the above diagram may seem shocking, but it accurately reflects the way things truly are in the organization. It also shows how organizationally similar the Watch Tower Society is to the Catholic Church – the very religion it has spent decades criticizing.

The Society is happy to say one thing in its publications, and another thing in court

Furthermore, you may be shocked to learn that, in at least one court case, Watchtower lawyers have openly admitted that the religion IS a hierarchy just like the Catholic Church. In a recent lawsuit surrounding an ugly power struggle in the Menlo Park congregation, California, a Watchtower attorney by the name of Calvin Rouse told a judge: “We are a hierarchical religion just like the Catholic Church.” A clipping of this shocking statement from the official court manuscript may be viewed below. If you would like to read more about the case in question and download the manuscript, you can do so by clicking here.

And so, even if the Society can’t admit to being a hierarchy in writing (mostly due to the stigma it has attached to that word over the decades), it is quite open about its hierarchical nature in illustrations and when pressed on the matter in a court of law.

Does it matter?

Perhaps, having considered the above information, you are saying to yourself: “But things have always been like this. Why is it such a big deal?” Well, the fact that the Watch Tower Society is a hierarchy is significant for two reasons. Firstly, because a hierarchical structure goes against scripture, and secondly, because they criticize other religious organizations for using the exact same system.

Consider Christ’s words at Matthew 23:6-12

“They [the Pharisees] like the most prominent place at evening meals and the front seats in the synagogues, and the greetings in the marketplaces and to be called Rabbi by men. But YOU, do not YOU be called Rabbi, for one is YOUR teacher, whereas all YOU are brothers. Moreover, do not call anyone YOUR father on earth, for one is YOUR Father, the heavenly One. Neither be called ‘leaders,’ for YOUR Leader is one, the Christ. But the greatest one among YOU must be YOUR minister. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.” (New World Translation)

By embracing a system where certain brothers in responsible positions are exalted above others, the Society has organized itself in direct contradiction of Christ’s words above. As seen in the Watchtower illustration, the Governing Body has now occupied the most exalted position – just a nudge away from heaven! Everyone else is beneath them. Not only that, everyone must humble themselves before the Governing Body by obeying everything they say. Those who don’t obey them or recognise their leadership are to be disfellowshipped as “apostates” and shunned by their Witness relatives.

Utter Hypocrisy

It is also worth remembering the countless instances over many decades where the Society has denounced the Catholic Church for operating as a hierarchy. Now the “Faithful Slave” doctrine has been re-written, and what do we see? The Watch Tower Society now has an almost identical organizational structure to the religion it has spent decades criticizing – even claiming to be fulfilling prophecy in the process (in the Revelation Climax book). Yes, our organization really is no different from any other Christian denomination, and the hypocrisy of it all is breathtaking.

The gradual and insidious nature of the Governing Body’s aquisition of greater power and prominence is reminiscent of Orwell’s Animal Farm

The whole thing reminds me of the much-loved parable “Animal Farm” by George Orwell, which I was taught in school. Intended as a cautionary warning against communism, Orwell’s story describes an uprising in which a group of animals seize control of their own farm by ousting their abusive farmer overlord. However, once the animals gain control, gradually the “top” animals who are in charge (the pigs) become corrupt. They begin with a commandment that reads “all animals are equal,” but gradually, over a period of time, this is changed to read “all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.” By the end of the story, the pigs become just as abusive as the farmer they ousted.

The overall message of Orwell’s short story is that “power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” When you look at the Governing Body and the way they are gradually maneuvering doctrine to further exalt their position in the organization, it is not difficult to draw parallels with the pigs in Animal Farm. If you haven’t yet read the story, you can download it as a PDF on this link.

A reason to stop and ponder

In conclusion, I believe that thinking Witnesses all over the world need to pause and meditate on page 29 of the April 15th 2013 Watchtower. They need to look long and hard at that illustration and ask themselves the following difficult questions:

  • Is this really what I dedicated my life to serve when I got baptized?
  • Are Jehovah’s Witnesses really any different from any other religion if they have such a clearly defined hierarchy, which is almost identical to the Catholic Church?
  • How can the Governing Body justify performing such a huge u-turn by awarding itself Pope-like status?
  • Why observe their command to not investigate objective information about the organization when it is changing before my very eyes into something I can no longer respect or admire?

 

 

 

329 thoughts on “Are Jehovah’s Witnesses a hierarchical religion? And does it matter?

  • January 31, 2013 at 4:25 pm
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    Thanks for taking the time to read my comments and respond!

    Hi Magusknight,

    I agree with your comments, you seem to be looking at this from a very modern perspective, which also reflects my personal views. I think for a lot of their beliefs regarding an afterlife they were clearly influenced by the world around them and needed to make sense of these things; places, events, practices and traditions. I didn’t know Gehenna was based upon a real place, so thanks for that, I’ll read up on it. As for the JW’s yes, on this subject, I think they have it right – up to a point – in terms of reality and modern life, but because they look at the Bible from a more rational perspective, I feel that they misunderstand a number of key things in the process.

    The JW’s supposedly base their beliefs on the Bible, but they discount a number of key concepts that are clearly identified with Christianity. Concepts regarding going to heaven or an underworld or lake of fire etc cannot be rationally explained, yet since Christ, Christians have believed these things are real, so faith and belief must go beyond the rational, material world. It seems that the WTS has removed a lot of the spirituality and mysticism in their version simply because they couldnt rationalise it, but this surely is an integral part to believing in and understanding the Bible. Despite the fact that believing in a real underworld doesn’t seem particularly logical in today’s world, in my opinion these beliefs are still integral if someone wants to believe the Bible. According to the experts, they say that although “Sheol” can be considered as “the pit” and “the common grave”, they all seem to agree that the concept of “Sheol” is more than that, as the Bible describes it an as an actual place, where people can still have some kind of existence there. To get the full picture I feel it’s maybe best to combine both interpretations to fully understand what people believed about “Sheol” back then, and how they understand it today.

    However, I also find it interesting that Jewish people themselves have no definitive answer, which I think is a much fairer approach, and doesn’t exclude others just because they have a different opinion. In the NT, I noticed that the Sadducees believed there was no resurrection, whereas the Pharisees believed there was a resurrection, but they still belonged to the same religion and accepted each other despite this. Seems they appreciated there were no right or wrong answers even then, shame others can’t do the same. It’s a fascinating subject, the Bible is so full of depth and possibilites it really is mindblowing.

    Thanks for responding, much appreciated!

  • January 31, 2013 at 4:36 pm
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    Hi Julia,

    I agree that “Death” being thrown into the lake of fire means that there will be no more death, but there is a clear distinction between “Death” and “Hades”, so I guess that’s where the difference lies. I know what you mean about people saying “you’re going to hell”, it’s very off-putting, though when I used to go to church, I was pretty lucky, as no one was like that. Obviously it depends what kind of group you find, but they’re not all like that I can assure you.

    I also agree with you about people never hearing about the Christian message, it is extremely unfair and illogical to think that they’ll suffer through no fault of their own. However, the WTS also believes that when/if God comes, he will exterminate everyone on the planet who doesn’t belong to the Watchtower Society. That would be a massive scale holocaust for saying the JW’s God is supposed to be “loving”. Seems to me that they are just as hypocritical as the people who say others are going to hell for not believing exactly what they believe, and not joining their group.

    The problem with the JW message is that it ironically has little basis in the Bible, and is often contrary to what it teaches. The JW version of “the Gospel” is very different from mainstream Christianity, that’s why they use fear and scare tactics to make sure their followers don’t read other religious material not written by the WTS, because they know it can be proved wrong. The WTS message is very attractive, but there are plenty of disturbing aspects to it, and it doesn’t really resemble the “Good News” in the Bible. As they believe everyone is given a second chance, I’ve noticed that they don’t seem too bothered about what happens in this life, or about helping people other than themselves. Because they think God is going to miraculously fix everything soon, they don’t see the point in trying to fix the world’s problems, whereas most Christians believe that they will be judged based on what they do in this life, so they engage actively in charity work and in helping make the world a better place in preparation for Christ’s arrival. The JW message is very negative and pessimistic in comparison, they say the world is a terrible place, but they don’t believe in trying to make it better.

    I hope you can recover from your near-death experience. I believe there is “something” out there, I don’t what it is, but like you, I’ll keep looking! Thanks for sharing your views, the more perspectives we examine, the more we can understand the bigger picture.

  • January 31, 2013 at 5:27 pm
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    Yeah I’m not sure what it is either any more. The WTS are presumptuous in trying to explain the unexplainable. They accuse other churches of failing to give satisfying answers when they say things like “It’s meant to be a mystery,” and things like these. Granted, they are guilty of telling people that their deceased baby is now an angel in heaven because ‘God wanted another angel in heaven’.

    I believe worshipping in Spirit as stated by Jesus to the Samaritan woman at the well has been stripped from the WT congregation through over-rationalising. I suppose it is only human to want to know as much as we can, and we have intelligence to try and fill the gaps out of our own reasoning, but overstepping God’s word seems to be the result for the Churches and denominations. But so many Christians I’ve met in the ministry or wherever have said, “I don’t see any JW having the Spirit. There’s a void there.” and they’re not talking about things like faith healing and speaking in tongues, but a three-dimensional being rather than a four-dimensional being, where I use the ‘fourth’ dimension to denote Spirit.

    I too see the lack of spirit, that mystical connection to the divine that cannot be explained by words. I feel the Spirit came upon me recently, and I feel I have such an improved understanding of the Bible.

    I’m still trying to throw off half my lifetime’s WT conditioning though, and it’s not easy.

  • February 3, 2013 at 10:19 am
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    Cedars, I wonder after looking at the illustration that Jesus is the forefront angel to the right of the earth, above the congregation?
    After all, they do consider that Jesus, is the Archangel, Michael!
    Or; May be they are finally admitting that Jehovah and Jesus
    are the same person? Like most other christendom religions do. But are just wondering how they are going to break that news to publishers without a mass exodus from their slavery of servitude.

  • February 3, 2013 at 10:21 am
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    Cedars, I wonder after looking at the illustration that Jesus is the forefront angel to the right of the earth, above the congregation?
    After all, they do consider that Jesus, is the Archangel, Michael!
    Or; May be they are finally admitting that Jehovah and Jesus
    are the same person? Like most other christendom religions do. But are just wondering how they are going to break that news to publishers without a mass exodus from their slavery of servitude.

    • February 3, 2013 at 9:06 pm
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      That angel at the side looks like the depiction of the “angel in mid heaven” and the one behind him is no different. They usually show Jesus with a crown.

      I don’t understand why most other Christendom religions say they are one; Jesus constantly talks about his Father as a separate person, and prays to Him and says things like, “The Father is greater than I am.” I’ve never understood how they arrived at the trinity conclusion, except John 1:1, but that is only one possible scripture out of a heap of them.

      • March 6, 2013 at 8:02 am
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        Because the trinity is ancient mystic babylonian bullcrap! 3×1=3, the other book we are to study is creation:A father is ALWAYS older than the son. If they are the same person, thenn the bible is full of meaningless confusing what is called DOUBLE THINK. After all the KJV calls him the 1st BORN of every CREATURE . Alahym ( Elohim/God) is not a creature. The real names of the Father and Son are NOT Jehovah and Jesus, but in ancient paleo hebrew is Yahuwah and Yahusha . I will never accept they are the same because YAH is beyond space and time , and the Son became human and died and was raised by His Father back to life. Yahuwah can not die. Yahusha is Yah in the flesh as a chip off the old block,a copy,an exact representation but he was clearly Born, God is not Born ,but is eternal to the past as into the future and beyond space and time. 1 Cor. 15:27,28 is clear that they are seperate because it is with exception of the one who subjected all things under His Sons feet. I can see why many people are turning away and becoming atheists ! Religion is a cancer for sure ,but the word stands on its own. I never believed in the trinity even before I became a JW and never will because it is retarded . It is irrational and rediculous, no matter how much you disagree with the jesuit watchtower . Just saying . Shalom

  • February 5, 2013 at 1:12 pm
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    Julia, Hebrew 1:8 shows clearly that Jesus is NOT an angel of any kind. But I do agree that the Father and Jesus are seperate persons.
    But there is nothing in the scriptures saying Jesus not a God, like the Father. But plenty showing the Father saying “This is my son..”! Hence, that Jesus in heaven is like his Father who is a God.

  • February 5, 2013 at 3:42 pm
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    Christ is the Word that God spoke…Jesus is that Word manifested in Flesh to die for us, to give us a way back to God. God cant leave his throne so he had to send the Word to redeem us…or those who would believe…Of course Jesus spoke of His Father, because Jesus was Flesh not spirit so in that aspect Jesus and God are two different but when he was raised from the dead he was Christ…trinity doesnt exist in the bible, but diety does, God the Father, God’s Word which is Christ, and God’s Holy Spirit which is His power that works thru the believer’s faith

  • February 5, 2013 at 5:27 pm
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    Strong Island, that totally makes sense! The WORD was the ‘first-born” of creation, and all things came to exist through the WORD. Oh wow, I’m learning so much from coming here, and also reading the Bible independently of the WTS. Keep informing me.

  • February 6, 2013 at 2:13 am
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    Thanks Strongisland, you explain it so clearly. The “Word” comes from God’s mouth, it’s how he created the universe, by commanding/speaking it into existence according to the first chapter of Genesis eg. “Let there be light”. Basically, the “Father, Son and Holy Spirit” is a very ingenious metaphor using the technique of personification. Jesus taught by using metaphors. In this context, a lot of things that Jesus says makes sense, particularly in the “Gospel of John”, which is all about the “Incarnation”.

    Also Julia, like many JW’s you say that the Father and Son are not one, but have you ever read through the “Gospel of John”, if so you must have read Jesus’ statement: “I and the Father are one” (John: 10:30)? In the epistle “1 John”, notice how John doesn’t even mention Jesus, but instead talks about seeing/hearing/touching the manifestation of the “Word”. They are supposed to be spiritually one, as God’s “Word” is the equal and perfect reflection of God himself, of his mind and will. If you read through John again, it’ll make a lot more sense, but remember that if you’re reading the NWT version, they have changed a number of passages in an attempt to alter the original meaning.

    I’d say that Jesus is both fully man and fully God as one; he was “Son of Man” sharing man’s nature, but also “Son of God” sharing God’s nature too, so he has a dual nature, acting as a bridge/mediator between humans and God. This explains why partaking is so important, as you need to have the “Word” inside you, that way you have both the Father and the Son and they can make their “home with you” (John 14:23). Partaking is all about obtaining eternal life. That way, the Christian can become “One with the Father”. This would also explain the whole chapter of (John:14), particularly where Jesus says “I am in the Father, and the Father is in me” as the “Word” is inside the Father, but also reflects the Father perfectly when he speaks. How can God’s “Word”, which is his reflection, be greater than God himself? Jesus prays to the Father, because the Father is showing us how to pray through his “Word”. This explains why God the Father is greater than his “Son” the “Word”. Did the early Christians worship Jesus? I’m not sure, but they certainly prayed to him, as Jesus states: ‘Ask for anything in my name, and I will do it” (John:14:14).

    Glad things are becoming a lot clearer for you now!

  • February 6, 2013 at 7:42 am
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    Praise God; that your eyes are being opened Julia…As u continue to read His Word, continue to ask for the Holy Spirit to give u the understanding, remember without the Holy Spirit, you cant understand the Word. Its the Holy Spirit that interprets for you…as you seek His Face in the Word, your spirit will become stronger. Able to resist the devil when he tempts you…Also when you make that committment to God, the devil will attack you more…so stand strong, put on the whole armor of God…i will be praying for you

  • February 6, 2013 at 11:46 pm
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    So now, and I ask because I really want to know and not to be a smart alec, then why did Jesus pray to God? If he was part of God? Why did he say, “Let not my will take place, but yours,” as though they were two separate entities each with their own thoughts? I must say, the nature of God and Jesus and how they are related has intrigued Christians for two thousand years, and many have fought and died over their differences. Not true Christians though; ones who never took up arms against their fellow men. Christadelphians come to mind.

  • February 7, 2013 at 3:20 am
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    Hi Julia,

    Most Christians, even Catholics and Protestants don’t take up arms against their fellow men/women too. When I went to church, I didn’t take up arms against the people there or anyone else from another group, and they didn’t take up arms against me, or anyone else for that matter. That’s just yet another MASSIVE generalisation that the WTS has put into your mind. Think about it, are all the church groups and people in them in your area fighting each other and participating in wars? Have these people ever done this in the past? Of course not! I don’t know much about the Christadelphians but they’re considered to be just as dodgy as the WTS/JW’s, Mormon’s and Seventh Day Adventists from a mainstream Christianity perspective. I find it interesting that they all started in the 19th century too, and that most groups that don’t believe Jesus was claiming to be God seem to have cult-like tendencies.

    As for Jesus praying to God, he isn’t praying to himself as such. When God speaks his “Word” it becomes separate from him like a transmission. The “Word” forms in his mind, then he speaks his “Word”, so when this transmission reached us, it manifested itself in the form of Jesus, it “became flesh”, because the “Word” can be anything God wants it to be. However, just like your voice or my voice or anyone else’s voice, our voices reflect our minds perfectly, so Jesus reflects God’s mind perfectly – he is not the Father, he is the perfect image of the Father, the Son or “Word”. He can only “do the Father’s will” because he is the physical manifestation of the very “Word” that comes from God’s mouth. It’s a technique called personification, where an abstract ideal/concept is represented in human form. For example, the Statue of Liberty in the US represents freedom, hope and liberty in a human form, so Jesus represents God and his commandments in human form. If Jesus wasn’t claiming to be God, then why would God need a puppet to do his bidding, shouldn’t God be able to represent himself?

    According to the Bible, God is giving us specific instructions through Christ, the physical manifestation of the “Word”, so he is showing us how to follow his commandments. Imagine if God was standing next to you right now, and you said to him: “How do I pray to you?”, then he would get down on his knees and say: “you pray to me like this”. So yes, Jesus is completely human, demonstrating how God wants us to follow his commandments, and yet also by his very nature is God also by forgiving sins, performing miracles etc. He functions in two roles, as both human and God. I think you’re getting close to understanding what mainstream Christians believe, but it isn’t easy, but then again, what Jesus was teaching wasn’t easy or simple; it can’t be easy, otherwise there wouldn’t be so much dispute about it.

    In all honesty it took me ages to work it all out, and in a way, I think it should do. Getting rid of all our assumptions is difficult, whoever we are. Also, sometimes it’s not enough for anyone to tell you what something means, you sometimes have to work it out for yourself. So I think the best thing to do is to keep reading and analysing the Bible, and gradually, things become clearer as we gain knowledge and understanding. I really hope this helps.

  • February 8, 2013 at 9:25 am
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    very well put DB….reading about Jesus and seeing that He said I and the Father are one for the unbeliever is extremely hard to believe. The Jews said he was blaspheming God…They are the chosen people and they didnt believe…Everything we read in the bible is very hard to understand let alone believe…It takes the Holy Spirit to interpret for us…Thats why Jesus when he was leaving He said I will send you the Comforter…the one who will teach you and strengthen you…Remember when you spend time with God in prayer and you spend time reading His Word, you must ask for the Holy Spirit to interpret, or thank God for the Holy Spirit already present in your life…As you study His Word, those passages that are hard to rationlize will become second nature, and you will be able to apply to your life and the devil will not be able to cast doubt in your life…

  • February 24, 2013 at 2:54 pm
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    I am reading an earlier article from this mag with a new perspective it states…………………….

    IS YOUR TEACHING UP-TO-DATE?

    Apollos was helped to improve the effectiveness of his ministry

    We want to stay up-to-date with the understanding of Bible truth so that we can share accurate knowledge with others. With that in mind, how would you answer the following questions?
    Whom did Jesus have in mind when he spoke of “this generation” mentioned at Matthew 24:34?—The Watchtower, April 15, 2010, pages 10-11.
    When does the separating of “the sheep from the goats” described at Matthew 25:32 take place?—The Watchtower, October 15, 1995, pages 21-23.
    As stated at Luke 21:26, when will “men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth”?—The Watchtower, February 15, 1994, pages 19-20.

    By augmenting daily Bible reading with careful personal study, we will be able to help others walk in the ever-increasing light that Jehovah sheds on his written Word.—Prov. 4:18.

    ………………. quite frankly this part of the article shoots the whole article in the foot……….with the new light doctrine setting up us for the new George Orwell teaching of some pigs are more equal than others but telling us to research the Bible ourselves??????????????

    • February 24, 2013 at 3:11 pm
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      Remarkably there is a footnote that states……….

      “Of course, we do not use Bible counsel to pressure or condemn others. We should be as patient and kind with a Bible student as Jehovah is with us.—Ps. 103:8.”

      …….therefore telling them to research the Bible for themselves and learn to develop logical thinking abilities

      SUCH HYPOCRISY

  • February 24, 2013 at 3:14 pm
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    Cedars,
    Thank you for this site. I feel liberated Jesus said the truth will set you free and TTATT certainly does

    You are a true sheprherd, the watchtower tells us laity to thank the elders

  • February 24, 2013 at 3:28 pm
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    Cedars,
    The same article also states……..

    “Paul also mentioned a helmet, “the hope of salvation.” Without protecting his head, a soldier in Bible times could easily lose his life in battle. But with a good helmet, he could survive blows to the head without suffering serious injury. We build hope in Jehovah’s saving acts by studying his Word. Strong hope enables us to resist apostates and their gangrenous “empty speeches.” (2 Tim. 2:16-19) Our hope will also strengthen us to say no to those who would lead us into conduct condemned by Jehovah.”

    ……I do not consider your articles as empty speeches, ………most certainly I consider this WT article from Wt Study Edition April 2013
    entitled “Receive Full Benefit From Reading the Bible” a hypocritical empty speech indeed.

  • February 26, 2013 at 11:46 pm
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    Agreed. I “Received full benefit from reading the Bible” because now I see that the WT’s teachings are different to the message of faith given by Lord Jesus.

    Hoochie Mama! How did I miss that all these years! I started reading the bible nearly 18 years ago and only just ‘got’ it.

  • February 27, 2013 at 5:57 pm
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    One item that is missing–the dotted-line affiliations. Publishers are in the bottom tier. However, this pyramid doesn’t include the “special order” groups which equate to the Roman Catholic’s nuns, monks, Jesuits, and missionaries. These “orders” also hover above the low-ranking publisher, and can hold influence over circuit and district overseers, as they ARE the revenue generators. Like nuns and monks, Bethelite volunteers are worker bees without any power or influence over the general publishers, but hold respect ranking above general publishers, and these also have their own ranking from Bethel volunteer up through Bethel elder. Another special order, the pioneer ladder has its form of hiearchy, as well. Although pioneers are subject to the elder/ministerial servant entry, they leap-frog over these and have direct contact with circuit and district overseers when they’ve reached the 2nd-tier of pioneering–casual, recurring, then the full-time strata. Beyond pioneering order, you have the Gilead and foreign service volunteers who would equate to a “Jesuit” category with their unique and extended training for duty.

    Now, if you sit in a Kingdom Hall, you will hear from the platform, repeatedly, that none of “God’s people today” are in clerical-laity classes, or that no matter what your label, your service to J* is rewarded and appreciated. In practice, however, wombs are reserved for men of status; sperm is reserved for wombs with status (ie: marries daughter of an elder to get to the position of MS or elder).

    Another facet of this hierarchy and closed community–young men and women who have talents that outshine the existing power structure will find themselves harassed and driven out of the congregations if they do not subserviently submit to the existing power authority. This is similar to the way some cults’ male leaders drive out young boys and men to maintain their breeding dominance over the females. Examples abound of extraordinarily talented individuals whom jealous and envious elders drove from among them by trying to impose their arbitrary authority, or by the Governing Body imposing upon them. Likewise, if the authority doesn’t have a college degree, you will not get a college degree, and if you do, absolute terrorism and life as a “living hell” ensues.

  • February 28, 2013 at 8:10 am
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    Thats not true Tom. They stand while performing a demonstration. They just cant talk to the audience directly (aka: like a teacher).

  • February 28, 2013 at 8:18 am
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    Where in the bible did Jesus ever focus on some earthly organization. His focus was on the Kingdom of Heaven.

  • March 6, 2013 at 7:08 am
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    You can not ignore the basic truth here. This along with the pedophile cover up has the stench of Jesuits if you ask me. Another hypocracy is they called the U.N. the disgusting thing(and it is,it is more corrupt than most realize ,and the agenda is not nice) Well for 10 years the Watchtower society was a due paying member without informing the rest of us.Some of YOUR money went to kill people ! Now I know how a brother was able to give a talk before the assembley. This is disturbing. Should not the Watchtower be disfellowshipped for doing such a thing? or at least those behind the descision to do so?

    Where is the dicipline for them ? I think the ” Get out of her my people” : may apply to ALL organized registered religions ? take the good as there is good research done by them in many areas, but take what is good, and the internet can be a great took,as well as libraries. Wake up to the dangers the watchtower is supposed to be warning us of in the world,like the terrible eugenics programs.[comment edited]

    • March 6, 2013 at 8:25 am
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      Sean, welcome to our site, which is a sanctuary from indoctrination of any kind. We have deleted your youtube link and the references to it in your post. You are entitled to believe your jesuit conspiracy nonsense if you feel it is productive for you personally, but please don’t go using this site to shove it in people’s faces. Thank you. Cedars

  • March 6, 2013 at 9:56 am
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    This is not a unique experience Julia. I also had this epiphany after dropping NWT and KJV and using the newer “plain English” versions. What I found in comparing the NWT to these “newer versions” is that the grammar akin to the KJV was awkward and clumsy–convoluting and obscuring the real meaning of a verse.

    A prime example is the simple verse that explains Salvation.

    Eph. 1:13-14; Ephesians 2:8-9,

    NWT: “[8] By this undeserved kindness, indeed, YOU have been saved through faith; and this not owing to YOU, it is God’s gift. [9] No, it is not owing to works, in order that no man should have ground for boasting.”

    NKJV [as example]: “8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.”

    Oversimplified, but the pattern continues. It is tiring and tedium using the NWT as a regular, study Bible because the grammar structure is not consistent with English. It’s a raw translation of Greek which uses different grammar structure and has no “translation/interpretation” to plain, modern English sentence structure, even if the terms and words are modern English, the structure and grammar are not consistent.

  • March 6, 2013 at 5:44 pm
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    Whom did Jesus have in mind when he spoke of “this generation” mentioned at Matthew 24:34?—The Watchtower, April 15, 2010, pages 10-11.

    The concept was to have “this generation” apply to all Christians in the body of Christ–anointed [we’ll get to that later]–starting at Pentecost and going forward. Note, in this recent interpretation, “this generation” leaves the iron-clad fasces of 1914 intact. If they tried to unhook from 1914 AD, the entire “house of cards” crashes and burns. Without 1914 AD, you raise questions regarding interpretations of “other sheep,” doctrinal corrections such as dropping the Cross, birthdays, blood transfusions, and most importantly, the hierarchy structure’s validity. Before the GB and specifically, the Writing & Teaching Committee, can drop 1914 AD, they need to discover what new “device” to retain their authority and influence. They don’t have apostolic succession as a claim, now. So, the smart money is on a thorough research of the early Church Fathers writings up to the point of “apostasy” to find writings that coincide with “present truth” or allow an ease of transition to “new light” as “present truth”.

    There’s only so many decades the phrase “just around the corner” can be stretched–strange, I can’t find that parable from Jesus or Paul, anywhere in verse.

    Now, about that anointed adjective. Ephesians chapter 1 puts forth one concept–one faith, one baptism, one God, one Lord, one Spirit. One anointing. Prior to the earthly class/heavenly class introduced around 1931, the belief was in two categories of heaven-bound, but anointed Christians. Afterward, the doctrines introduced why the earthly class had no anointing, otherwise, you’d need to interpret into the sacred text reasons for anointed Christians lacking a seal and deposit (a token) of the adoption spirit.

    If you ask the typical rank-and-file JW, what makes one “anointed”? The answer ranges from years of service as Witness and suffering trials and tribulations for His name to time of birth. In short, the concepts prior to 1980’s and 90’s was an “anointed one” had suffered during WWI or II persecution and afflictions as a Jehovah’s Witness. Scripture mentions trials and tribulations but it doesn’t state this as the cause for anointing. If so, how could the Ethiopian and others get anointing before baptism and before “proving” themselves?

  • July 18, 2013 at 10:28 pm
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    1. Tiny correction: It’s the April 15 WT, not April 13.
    2. Since the teaching is that Jesus is the Archangel and is directing the preaching work on the earth, why is the assumption being made that the angel most in the foreground is not, in fact, intended to represent Jesus? Granted, generally when they depict Jesus in heaven, they don’t depict him as having wings… Is this why?

  • July 19, 2013 at 4:36 am
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    The name Michael means “who is like God”. It is a question. There is no reason why the name of Jesus can be “who is like God?” Jesus came from God and returned to God. Why would he ever ask “who is like God”? He has always known there is no one like God.

  • March 22, 2014 at 1:02 am
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    Tell me….
    If someone was disfellowshiped because they didn’t or couldn’t accept the 1914 generation ‘theory’, now that that has changed, will they be reinstated and welcomed back into the ‘loving’ congregation?

    • March 22, 2014 at 5:38 am
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      lollita,

      My understanding is that those who are disfellowshipped for expressing disagreement with the Governing Body are not reinstated if their view turns out to be the correct one. They are not disfellowshipped for being wrong, as much as they are for defying the GB. The WTS does not want members who question the leadership, even if they are right. Unquestioning obedience is what they want.

  • March 22, 2014 at 1:53 am
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    What has really changed about the generation theory?
    They now believe it to be an overlapping generation.
    How they get that out of Jesus words is beyond me. They are simply guessing. Its a ploy to keep the pressure on.The date of 1914 is completely wrong, so their theories on 1914, 1919 are also completely wrong.
    Here’s some thing I posted recently under another a different topic I got from JWFACTS web site, and it comes out of the 1981 watchtower.

    “What would have been regarded as apostate teaching back in 1981 is now regarded as the new understanding of the FDS.

    “The objectors may argue that not all of Christ’s anointed disciples have a share in preparing the spiritual food, so that perhaps the “slave” pictures only the leading ones, and the “domestics” those they serve in the congregation.”
    Watchtower 1981 Mar 1 pp.24-26
    Cheers Duds

  • April 8, 2014 at 9:40 am
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    Two very good video’s on this topic are the Channel of God series parts 11 & 12 See:-

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl9qqQgHxlo

  • April 19, 2014 at 7:22 am
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    I agree, a brilliant article, but you’re forgetting the sometimes over looked even lower level than ‘publishers’, and that’s female publishers. We don’t even get a school canteen chair, we’re only good for keeping silent and making tea.

  • October 26, 2014 at 2:03 pm
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    what the writer of this article, who whined about how elders and circuit elders get so much attention etc, doesn’t get is that there are SCRIPTURES that say to give the elders “double honor”. (1 Timothy 5:17) So yes, there IS a certain (in a way) “hierarchical” structure, as there was (when honestly and carefully analyzed) in the First Century Christian New Testament Church AS WELL, but it’s NOT even close to the “College of Cardinals” and “pope” nonsense etc that you find in Roman Catholicism. Overall, the Witnesses have it way more Scriptural and BALANCED. It can’t be denied that Acts 15 shows CENTRAL AUTHORITY…with “Apostles and Elders” making decisions that were BINDING on all other local congregations in other regions. They were (without a doubt) the “governing body” of the first century Christian Congregation. It was not this loose wild thing that we have in most of Protestantism today. Because while the average “independent” Baptist Church is a loose rebellious thing with no one to answer to, as individual pastors do whatever they want, with no real oversight, either in doctrine or practice, with “private interpretations” galore (like Peter S. Ruckman, the King James Only cultist, as one of a number of examples), and the Roman Catholic Church goes too far with its “infallible Pope” idiocy and anti-Scriptural blasphemies etc…Jehovah’s Witnesses have it down pat in balanced form, in modern days, with Congregation and Organizational Biblical Structure. So instead of crowing and belly-aching because itinerant visiting overseers got dinners done for them, why not look at the overall situation that the BIBLE says to give them “double honor”, and that even though there is in some sense a “hierarchical” structure, it is SCRIPTURAL, and it’s NOT the crazy way that the Roman Catholic “church” has, for centuries. JWs have it correct. And have proven, with this and a host of other things, to be the Lord’s true witnesses, in these last days. They’re the only professed Christian group who are truly “NO PART OF THE WORLD”…and on that “narrow road”. Separated from this world’s politics, paganism, corruption, idolatry, and stupidity. And look only to Christ’s Blood and Christ’s Kingdom…as man’s ONLY hope, out of death and the grave. And out of a rotten and sick world. And understand what the “New Earth” is. And the Kingdom and Paradise Restored.

    • October 27, 2014 at 2:08 am
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      Dear Gabby,

      Watchtower=Borg

      Enough said.

      Tamethyst

  • October 26, 2014 at 7:47 pm
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    Gabby, to use 1 Tim. 5:17 when it talks about older men who work hard for the congregation should get double honor doesn’t make it okay for the Governing Body to be idolized, does it? That scripture is saying that yes, they should be respected but Jesus made it very clear that nobody should be idolized in the Society. To say that the Watchtower is not as bad as the Catholic Church, doesn’t make it okay for the Watchtower.

    If you read the 15th chapter of Acts, you will see that there were thousands of Jews that had become Christians and certain men (probably Jewish) came from Judea down to Antioch where Paul and Barnabas were staying and they were telling the new Greek converts that they had to obey the Mosaic Law concerning circumcision but it was Paul and Barnabas who were arguing with these men from Judea that these Greek converts didn’t need to get circumcised so all these men went back to Jerusalem where they talked it over with the apostles and older men in Jerusalem and they all came to the conclusion that they didn’t want to add any unnecessary burdens on these new converts and sent Paul and others went back to the congregations to tell them that they didn’t need to be worried about all that “speech” that these men from Judea had been telling them. That’s as simple as that. The Governing Body today add many burdens on the rank and file, which was a foreign thought to the older men and apostles in Jerusalem in the first century.

    You won’t find the term governing Body in the Bible. It was made up by the Watchtower in the 1970’s. If you study the early history of the organization, you will find that Charles Russell thought that the true religion would not have a governing body.

    The Watchtower is a hierarchical religion with the Governing Body at the top (not Jesus Christ and Jehovah). The apostle Paul was out and about with the common people, unlike the Governing Body and he supported himself making tents, if you remember. He wasn’t a useless burden on the congregations. He condemned lazy people like that. Christians were to work for a living, not live off the flock. He didn’t sit in his ivory tower and he didn’t lay unnecessary burdens on the congregations. He was like Jesus Christ, humble.

    If there was a governing body in the first century, the Apostle Paul would have been one and yet at Gal. 1:18, it says that it was 3 years since he had been in Jerusalem and then in Gal. 2:1 it says it was 14 years later that he went to Jerusalem. If anybody would have been on a so-called governing body then, it would have been the apostle Paul. No, there wasn’t a governing body during the first century and Paul was out there working and preaching among the common people.

    A real Christian will follow what it says in Philippians 2:3 “doing nothing out of contentiousness or out of egotism, but with lowliness of mind considering the others are superior to you.”

  • October 27, 2014 at 2:19 am
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    Gabby,

    Thank you for your post. It was most enlightening.

    do you think that honour and obedience are synonimous? We are commanded to obey CHRIST, not men.

    When the Governing Body can choose to apply scriptures pertaining to boundary disputes to child abuse, and twist the very words of Christ to make their teachings work, then it is time to stand up for the good morals that Jesus championed.

    please do your research on your religion.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

    • October 27, 2014 at 7:36 am
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      In every org there is a level of command, otherwise nothing would get done.

      This is very different than kissing someone’s ring or holding them up to be better than the rest.

      I grew up as a witness, am an active one now-
      i never consider any man as being my commander spiritually speaking.

      So jw are far from the hierarchy of the Catholic church.

  • October 27, 2014 at 3:05 am
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    Gabby, when that lawyer in the Menlo Park scandal told those people in that courtroom that the Society is a hierarchical religion like the Catholic Church, he was telling the truth. That is exactly the way it is. It is just that the Society doesn’t come out and admit it in our publications. They can’t, because all 8 millions of us would know it’s not a Christian religion then and everybody that is in this religion would realize just what liars the Society is and get out of it as a false religion.

    This is what the book Is This Life All There Is (1974) page 46 says about an organization that would lie to you:

    Would you stay in an organization that lied to you? “Knowing these things, what will you do? It is obvious that the true God, who himself “The God of Truth” and who hates lies, will not look with favor on persons who cling to organizations that teach falsehood. (Ps. 31:5; Prov. 6:16-19; Rev. 21:8). And, really would you want to be even associated with a religion that had not been honest with you?”

    Everybody in the Org. thinks that the Society would never tell a lie. That is the impression that they give to people in their publications but if you can catch them in even one deliberate lie, it says even in our own publications that God would not look on favor on anyone who clings to that religion.

    If you were to put money down on a product that made claims, wouldn’t you want to see that the product worked first before buying it? Everybody in the organization just takes the word of the seller (Society) without putting their own teachings under the microscope. Do some research. Don’t just believe everything you read as “truth” from the Watchtower or any other religion without putting it to the test first to see if the teachings are really in the Bible.

  • October 27, 2014 at 10:06 am
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    Carlos, are you saying then that the Governing Body has no power to delete elders like that lawyer claimed?

  • October 27, 2014 at 2:22 pm
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    This is in response to Carlos. He wrote; “I never consider any man as being my commander spiritually speaking.”

    The Governing Body are they who decide what scripture means, which scripture should be obeyed and how. The elders are they who decide how everyone is measuring up to the governing body decisions. That is hierarchy.

    Are you allowed to decide differently that they have? No! You are not as good as them. Are you able to decide differently than the elders do? No! You are not as good as them.

    If you don’t agree with what I have written, then why are they right and you are wrong if you differ from them? You don’t? Why not?

    • October 29, 2014 at 8:23 am
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      I think that is why they are called the governing body, because they decide ¿Can you imagine if everyone had a different opinion on hot to works things out?

      If i want to be part of a group, you have to go by the rules of the group, if not then i would not joining that group

      I call it an organization, just like every other. at work you have the same thing. everywhere, in government, in your house.

      They are right because someone has to take the lead in a group, i don’t want to decide scriptures, if an explanation does not make sense to me, it just doesn’t, I’m not going to raise a big fuss about it and get everybody’s panties in a bunch.

  • October 29, 2014 at 8:28 am
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    I think that the g.b is the only one that can delete an elder, after the recommendation of the local elders

  • October 29, 2014 at 9:05 am
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    Carlos, that is what that lawyer was saying when they wanted to delete those elders to take over that congregation. It’s set up that way. It’s set up just like the Catholic church and that lawyer was right. It’s just that the rank and file are told differently but we all know that’s the way it really is.

    • October 31, 2014 at 11:21 am
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      Nancy,
      The governing body if often wrong, that we studies in the book study for example, that is no news.

      Being wrong in some things does not equal-false religion, they are human not false. i dont have a problem with that.

      anonymous,

      It’s set up like any other corporation, the elders might recommend something and after investigating n o action is taken or some action is taken.

      I’m rank and file and i never think that they are perfect. as far as administrating things.

  • October 29, 2014 at 2:20 pm
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    So does it not matter to you that the governing body might be wrong about anything? Do I hear you right? Whatever happened to “get out of her”, her being false religion? False means not right. You can’t have it both ways. It isn’t right to think their false is bad but your false is OK. If the governing body insist you believe all false religion will be destroyed but you yourself are “touching” something “unclean” id est “false” then you judge yourself for destruction. Did they not tell you that?

  • October 31, 2014 at 12:42 pm
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    Carlos, would it bother you though if the Society was deliberately lying to you? There’s a big difference between not being perfect and deliberately lying, don’t you think? What if you found out that the Society was deliberately lying to you? Nobody should ever be afraid to test out their religion. Are you afraid to test the truthfulness of the claims about Jerusalem being destroyed in 607 and not 586-587 as all other authorities insist?

    If you look at those two articles in the 2011 Watchtower, you will see a footnote in those articles that it is admitted by the Society that they are the only ones that hold to that date. In fact the cuniform tablets that are good enough to establish 539 are not good enough to establish 586/587 .The Society will disfellowship you if you look into a book such as Gentile Times Reconsidered by Carl Olof Jonsson who established 17 separate ways to prove that Jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587.

    They have known the real facts of 587/586 for over 30 years. No matter what encyclopedia you look at, you will see that Jerusalem fell to Babylon in 587/586. The Society is deliberately lying about 607. They have to lie about 607 because if Jerusalem fell in 587/586, the whole 1914 theory fails. They are lying to you. There’s a huge difference between being imperfect and disfellowshipping people for finding out that they are wrong about a date and telling anybody about it. That is Satanic, not imperfect but evil.

    • November 3, 2014 at 6:22 am
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      Deliberate lie-.

      Is it?
      I don’t go by dates, it has been proven that dates sooner or later have to be changed in relation to this subject.

      1914 maybe or maybe not.

      who knows?

  • October 31, 2014 at 9:43 pm
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    Tamey… then the first-century Christians (read Acts 15 where A) there was definitely CENTRAL AUTHORITY of “Apostles and Elders”, and B) BINDING DECISIONS for all other local congregations) were “borg” also. Your comment was just a juvenile horn-toot with no substance, and totally dodges all the points and facts made in the comment. No big surprise though, of course. And you’re a drone for ignoring the Biblical facts and examples (like Dathan and Korah and Abiram going against the “Borg” of Moses and Aaron, as well as the first-century Acts Christians). Because of not wanting central authority, that IS actually Biblical. Pagan Christendom are really the zombie-tards, blinded by the Devil, as the rest of the “whole world” is. (Revelation 12:9) Nuff said.

    • November 1, 2014 at 3:50 am
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      Gabby,

      Still BORG…

      “Commands of men as doctrine”

      And such lies they are too…

      Take out your awake and look to see why it is published coz here’s what it said and we were bombarded with this message (g84 jan 8th)

      “Most importantly, this magazine builds confidence in THE CREATOR’s promise of a peaceful and secure New Order before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away.”

      Oh dear, what presumptousness to lie like that and say that it is your god. Watchtower’s sins are coming home to roost.

      Tamethyst.

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