If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, you will have to be satisfied with remembering October 4th 2015 as the day congregations worldwide were informed of the scrapping of the Theocratic Ministry School – over a week after the news was leaked in advance by a Bethel source.
But if you are a former Jehovah’s Witness, or an “apostate,” you can take pride in thinking of October 4th 2015 as the day when more ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses than have ever before appeared in a single video with a message of love and concern for those still trapped inside the Watchtower organization.
Organized to commemorate the anniversary of this website’s launch on October 4th 2011, the short montage film represents the joint efforts of 62 “apostates” from far-flung corners of the globe. Rather than trying to condemn Jehovah’s Witnesses, the video sets out to debunk the damning stereotypes of apostates as disseminated in Watchtower publications.
Instead of appearing as foaming-at-the-mouth mentally diseased vagrants, the apostates in the video are calm, rational people who have walked away from a religion that causes far more harm than good, and is ultimately untrue.
It is hoped that the video, with its intriguing title, will reach out to as many Jehovah’s Witnesses on YouTube as possible, and get them to rethink their position regarding doing objective research into their cherished beliefs.
[Please note: Due to a music rights issue, the video does not play on all handheld devices.]
JWsurvey Day was first announced at the end of August, and the collaborative video was given the working title of “What you DON’T know about apostates.” A Facebook group was set up, and the script was made available online for people to choose which lines they wanted to speak.
However, as more and more people signed up for an ever-diminishing number of parts in the video, it became clear that something special was happening. The sheer number of people who wanted to share in delivering the video’s message was an event in itself.
Last night, as the deadline for the video drew close, I stayed up until 4 am making last-minute edits. Over 4 gigabytes of video submissions had to be sorted and whittled down to a final 15-minute short film. As the video took on its own personality I noticed a change was needed. The original title would be scrapped in favor of “62 Apostates Who Love Jehovah’s Witnesses.” (There are actually more than 62 apostates appearing in the film, but because I would rather downplay the figure than exaggerate, I have counted only those who speak in the final edit.)
I sincerely hope that we can do the video justice by making sure it is shared as widely as possible. It’s wonderful to see the enthusiastic response already on Facebook and Twitter from ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses who are enjoying seeing their own thoughts about Watchtower verbalized by such a wide array of people.
Special mention must also be made of all those who have worked in translating the subtitles for the video. Presently there are 8 languages available, but a further 9 are in the pipeline. Michel Mix (pictured below), a member of the JWsurvey Day group, has done a fantastic job of coordinating the translation project from his base in Colombia.
Oftentimes when I do activism work on my own (for example, a large JW Broadcasting rebuttal), I can find the process genuinely tiring – and even mildly frustrating. But when I am working with so many sincere people, I feel the burden lifted. Activism becomes the unbridled joy it should be. I am working with like-minded individuals who share my passion towards an important goal, which is one of the best feelings you can have in life.
A tribute to JWsurvey
When I first set up JWsurvey, it did feel like “my website” – and I still catch myself speaking in those terms occasionally. But as I look back on the work that has been done and the huge potential for making a difference moving forward, I find those ideas are shifting. JWsurvey is becoming more of a legacy.
In the most recent 2015 survey, one of the questions asks which resources have been most instrumental in the person’s awakening from Watchtower indoctrination. The answers as of October 4, 2015 are as follows…
In total, 1,218 have so far credited this website as either very or extremely influential in their awakening. This figure, and the figures for other similar websites, are simply astonishing. It is a sobering reminder of just how much work the internet is doing in chipping away at Watchtower’s stranglehold on people’s minds.
It also means the role of this website is more important than any one single person, which is why I have been gradually expanding our team of writers and illustrators over the past year or so. My eventual aim is to leave JWsurvey in the capable hands of the next generation of activists, to hopefully continue on long after the bulk of my work is finished.
In the meantime, there is still much work to do – work that is made far more enjoyable when I allow myself pause to reflect on what has been accomplished. In that spirit, I hope you will join me in celebrating today, October 4th, as “JWsurvey Day.” And I leave you with some short messages that have been sent in by our readers…
Please note, I haven’t been able to publish all the comments as some are too long, but I will try to find a way of somehow adding some to this article either as links to Word documents or as comments.
***
[Anonymous]
Put simply, JWsurvey enabled me to fully wake up. As an elders daughter who had pioneered – I faded from the organisation aged 21. I wanted to think for myself; I started to have an awareness that my thoughts were being controlled. This was not easy; I left behind my whole community to embark on a journey to educate myself and build a new support network.
Now aged 30, it has only been in the last 18 months that I have been fully awoken and free from JW indoctrination, thank you to JWsurvey and the John Cedars YouTube channel. This intelligent, insightful, educational, humorous and honest website, truly helped me to understand the facts as to why I had left. For this I will be eternally grateful. In the past two years I have been able to live a normal happy life, without any guilt, fear or regret – this is priceless. In addition to this, my child had been born free. One of the greatest gifts I could give him.
Please keep up the good work! You do an amazing job.
Thank you once again.
***
Yvette Rucker
I became a witness in my early 20s. The promise of a paradise earth where there is peace and unity among all mankind especially between a husband and wife appealed to me. I wanted this kind of world for my children. I studied and became a witness hoping and praying my husband would too and he did, but it did not make my marriage better it only made it worse. My husband believing that I now was scripturally bound to obey gave him total control and he was even more abusive. There came a day when I realize that if I stayed with him he would kill me and our children so I made the decision to leave and I did.
Of course, I was no longer good association because I separated from my husband and eventually divorced him to protect myself and the children. Being a single mother was hard I had to work 2 jobs to support us but at least we did not have to live in constant fear. The congregation had little to do with me so I received no help from them I was completely on my own I missed so many meetings trying to work and take care of my children.
My older daughter introduced me to your website because she no longer believed it was the truth, because of the way we were treated. She pointed out scriptures that showed that her dad was not the loving Christian husband he should have been and that the elders were told and sympathized with him cutting me off from a faith I believed in wholeheartedly all those years.
I did read JWsurvey and all the links as well. JWsurvey helped me loose the fear and guilt that comes with leaving what you come to believe is Gods organization. I have been able to heal and i am still healing. Thank you so much for the real truth about the Watchtower organization
***
Julia Douglas
I remember when JWSurvey was just an idea and Lloyd was only known by his pseudonym and had yet to officially break ties with the Watchtower. I had already been disfellowshipped and was using my true identity on Facebook, but that’s not to say I was truly free of the brainwashing and programming. I struggled for a long time… and reading the articles on JWSurvey proved to be a regular source of fact-based, reliable information that I have come to rely on.
It’s always exciting when there is a leak, but more importantly, JWSurvey has been a comfort to the demons plaguing my mind. Lloyd has a remarkable ability to quickly read, digest, comprehend and effectively refute Watchtower propaganda, time and time again. Sensationalism would only detract from the well-reasoned information that JWSurvey presents, and Lloyd does not take short cuts. For all of these reasons, I would say JWSurvey is one of the go to websites that I regularly refer people to, and I hope that Lloyd and his team will continue to maintain the high standards of quality in the days ahead.
***
Patricia Burford
Susannah
Uwe Schoning
I da/df myself in 2003 … but defended the JWs and their policies a long time. Somehow in 2011 this stopped. A year later I knew I had to work up my past and I was searching for people with the same thoughts… that something in the organization was not right!
I found a German forum of escapists but felt like I would never fit in… and then I found JWSurvey.org and the kind words on this page showed me, that the author was indeed empathic and would exactly know what I was thinking. His objective arguments and the information he provided confirmed me… I had not left the truth… I left a dangerous cult. And his non-agressive activism showed me, that it is not a bad thing to be an apostate…
JWSurvey helped me to understand, that the truth about the “truth“ is a story about deluded old men, who think their claim to lead is based on a story Jesus told.
JWSurvey showed me, that apostates do indeed care for the people still caught in the organization… and are indeed good people.
***
Mika
Visiting JWSurvey helped me get an idea of what to expect beforehand from the shunning that was sure to and did follow my exit from the religion, I also found needed encouragement and support from the articles and community of posters. I have always favored the honest, logical, balanced approach and visitor feedback your website & YouTube channel affords which made it enjoyable to view/visit.
One thing it helped I’m sure many visitors realize, is the choice we had all along to free, happy lives without instilled fear through cult doctrine. JWSurvey isn’t extremist nor does it promote fairy tales, it simply states the facts and sets an example in speaking up against the harmful effects of cults in an empathetic way that many could relate to.
JWSurvey gave me much courage and support while helping me realize freedom and peace of mind were already mine, I only need reclaim it from the undue influence of the cult that influenced me to believe otherwise. JWSurvey educated me on effective ways I could help others. I know it would have been more challenging for me had I not came across your activism efforts, but I am beyond grateful that I did.I don’t want to sound overly dramatic here, but it is true when I sum it up in one sentence, JWSurvey helped me reclaim long-overdue emotional freedom and joy in my life.
THANK YOU!
(Editors note: This article was updated on 1 August 2017)
Further reading…
Video trailers…
I think that the Watchtower has genuinely genuinely hurt people. ‘ there’s a wizard locked in his tower’.
I don’t think they going to recover, the momentum is to strong, it’s a matter of time. Though they have helped people to have a foundation of faith they have in turn destroyed, by their teachings and actions, their own members faith. One million Jehovahs Witnesses over the last ten-eight years are unaccounted for. Watchtower in its defence describes some of these ones as apostates rather than dealing with the issues that it has created, it seems it wants to take rather than give, to be submitted to rather than submit. The Watchtower continues to bury it’s head and tell its members not to listen to legitimate concerns it will eventually have to answer. The truth is the Ivory tower and the pain it’s cause is unexceptible, cruel and wrong but above all unsustainable. Personally the (so called) holy place will be no more. Millions of Witnesses are waking up, money is drying up, truth changes day to day in the hope the boat doesn’t capsize. Personally I believe this is the start of the end game. i personally believe that the man of lawlessness will take control over Christians before being exposed before the genuine presence of Chirst and I believe this is it. Other than that we’ll wait and see but either which way the Watchtower will come to its end and pay for the damage it has infflicted. No one hates Jehovahs Witnesses, we’ve all been there, it’s the way they are abused that is hated and the personal suffering endured by many here, still, not one word of apology, it does not bode well.
Well said Jake.
@Jake- Well said man. Believe me, the GB has no idea what is happening right below their feet. No idea. As I always like to say now, “Thank YHWH for the internet!”
But to quote from the King James (not from that adulterated, tampered, stained, soiled, useless piece of dog excrement called the New World Translation!)
“For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.”- Luke 12:2 (for you bible lovers out there!)
Yes! I have a feeling that verse may actually be a warning to the “Faithful Slave!”
A little off topic but TGIF! Work has been so crazy around here due to the cut backs and layoffs. I’m now doing the work of three people and not a penny raise. So I’m about to smoke a nice juicy Cohiba I’ve been saving. I usually smoke once a month but this month is twice! ;) The countdown has begun! Only 15 minutes to freedom!
I never knew how little we actually used the Bible, the NWT is horrible! I know most of the GB know they have nothing in common with God or Christians and spiritual humans seeking truth.
Reading how Russell, Rutherford and Fred Franz taught “humans alone with Bibles is dangerous!” their gist, sounds like the Crazed Popes during the Inquisition trying to root out everyone not following false religious leaders. Elders share their burden of guilt, their the GBs Inquisitional Forces seeking out any possible threat busting up their mind control.
The Watchtower has hired professional public relations teams to combat all the negative publicity your causing. The Internet is too big for them to control and all the remaining members are not very loving, their angry and confused “The End:” has not arrived!
Obituaries daily prove “The Generation that will not pass away!” is a lie, a hoax and now JWs won’t think because the alternative is admitting your right! NWL, a terrible version of the Bible, sorry!
Many Jehovah’s Witness, as did the majority, need a scriptural bases to wake up.x
Spot on Jake, sad so many are blind to this crucial piece of the puzzle.
Any thoughts? Why dont the GB ask the minions to look for anointed ones in their sacred ministry. Surely that would be the priority since they are so close to their end and the rapture is three weeks tuesday!And if they find more of these darling ones why don’t they let us know.Seeing as there are sooooo many aposties who don’t fit GB criteria but claim to be Christ’s brothers, children of God even, they must be tripping over new special sheep.Funny that NO new revelations yet (please note GB my suggestions first not yours ) ruthless
I can’t manage Tuesday… it ‘overlaps’ my week.
@Tara .. WHY CANT YOU MANAGE TUESDAY??? ….. I DONT BELIEVE APOSTATES!!! … FANCY COMING UP with that OLD EXCUSE…. I MEAN …. OVERLAPPING TUESDAYS????
OHhhhh PLEASE!!!
I have a meeting of Apostates Anonymous.
I’m glad you’re seeking help in a Twelve-Step Program, Tara. They can be very effective.
Step 1: Admit you have a problem.
Step 2: Realize that Zep’s Whole Lotta Love is better than any Kingdom Melody that’s ever been written.
Step 3: Understand that the tightness of your pants doesn’t define YOU as a person.
Once again, I’m good for three and then have to pass it on :)
Hi everyone, my name is Tara and I am an apostate. Wow that feels so good :)
Step #4 Do happy dance that it is out in the open.
Step #5 do happy dance to Whole Lotta Love.
Step #6 put drink down before doing happy dance to Whole Lotta Love
Step #7 clean up mess on floor after doing happy dance to whole Lotta Love.
“Hiii Tara”, applause, applause.
Wow! Who would’ve known that Whole Lotta Love would figure so prominently in a twelve-step program, lol!? Awesome!!
Let me take a look at the Jehovah’s Witness point of view regarding the faithful slave (which I believe applies individually) which they already apply to themselves.
According to JW’s this compersite slave is charged with managing the masters household which includes- managing the finances, the distribution food and the well being of the slaves.
How of they got on?
Many of the branch facilities are closing. Take for example Spain. Congregants were asked to donate towards this new building. Many, I believe, donated cash and family jewellery. Some years later the Watchtower had a disagreement with the state regarding pension plans . . The branch closed. Was the money returned?
Imagine paying towards, and working on the building of a property, then for it to be sold and for you not to see any of the profit because they had to pay you for you work. . . And then ask you for more money!
Who owns your current KH and who takes on the responsibility of the cost through debt and interest of any refurbishment?
How about food?, enough said.
So here I am looking after my household and a child suffers from abuse, what do I do?, I keep my mouth shut and tell them it’s their responsibility. Faithful? You work it out.
@Jake . You make REALLY GOOD POINTS in BOTH of your Posts above!!
The Trouble is the GB & WATCHTOWER Inc. HATE People Who Think & Reason . The GB want ROBOTS!!
Holly Chu.
Thanks for your kind comments. Your description of the
Judicial trials as “Barbarous” is so often relevant. One
particular case in our cong, was especially inhumane.–
A young man who suffered with Haemophilia, was
hospitalised several times and refused a transfusion,
then he was given the awful choice of either accepting
blood or dying within hours. He had a wife and two small
children who depended upon him, and I suppose, in a
weakened state, he accepted blood.
At the hearing he pleaded not to be disfellowshipped,
but the CO, who presided, shamed him further by citing
the courage of bros, in Malawi. This man though had
struggled for years with a terrible problem and had shown
courage many times.
Sadly less than a year later he died, and we weren’t even allowed
to give him a funeral. Then later in the WT, they gave us permission
to use our conscience in the matter of funerals for the
disfellowshipped. As you say Holly barbaric, in the truest sense
of the word. Best Wishes. Ted.
@ Ted .. Very Very Sad for that poor Brother & his family .. That C.O . Should be ASHAMED of Himself . Whereas Jesus disciples plucked heads of grain on the Sabbath which the Pharisees Condemned them for , BUT Jesus said ‘I WANT LOVE,JUSTICE & MERCY, Not Sacrifice !
& on the point of GB changing policies on whether one can attend a DISFELLOWSHIPPED ONEs FUNERAL …. Reminds me of the Ever Changing Stance on ORGAN TRANSPLANTS .. Before 1967 Yes you can! 1967 to 1980 NO YOU CANT ;.. 1980 to 2015 YES YOU CAN !!
These 7 MASS MURDERERS of BROOKLYN ( Hope I am not being too subtle here)..have been Responsible for How Many Lost Lives? & How many Families have LOST a Father,Mother or CHILD Needlessly because of the Constant Flip Flop Changes of these 7 Arrogant Men??
Ted, I am quoting from Crisis of Conscience on page 359 concerning those suffering from hemophilia:
“Even accepting the date of June 11, 1975, as the date the change in policy was decided upon, the fact remains that it was not until THREE YEARS LATER, in the June 15, 1978 Watchtower (pages 30,31), that the organization published a statement ensuring that all Witness hemophiliacs who had been told that their use of blood fractions to counteract hemorrhaging was limited to a “one-time-only” occasion might learn that this rule no longer applied. What emergencies might have been faced during those three years by Witness hemophiliacs who knew only the previous policy there is no way of knowing.”
The Watchtower has no conscience. It was okay for hemophiliacs to take blood but most were not aware of it and the rank and file were never told either. If it was okay for hemophiliacs to take blood to save their life, then it should have been okay for the rank and file.
Only people who have no conscience would take the life and death of their followers so lightly.
Oh, another “secrect” rule?? Just like the Elders Book, one that any Pharisee would be proud to own. The GB makes me sick.
truly blood on their hands! rl
Ted,
That story is so sad.
That’s the problem with this cult. It’s not until you stand back & look at the overall picture that you see the picture in its true form.
I have to admit that while in, I insulated myself to my own little fantasy world to convince myself that it was the truth & the more that I doubted, the more that I curled into my shell. Not daring to peek at anything that seemed to contradict my faith but the more I did that the more that I became depressed because my intuition was screaming at me to be heard.
People who are in abusive situations often don’t realise that they are in them because the abuser has convinced them that this is normal & right behaviour.
To JB,
I said hullo to hubby & he says hi back to you & everyone here. He’s a sideliner & not a great reader. You have all helped him too. He was still an MS when I dropped the bomb on him & said that I didn’t want to be in this religion anymore & that I came to the conclusion that it was a crock of sh*t. It had been building to that though.
Luckily for me, he saw it that way too but didn’t know how to analyse his thoughts so we talked & talked & I researched & read books & we managed to find our way out together.
After reading others stories on here & their still in spouses, I’m lucky it didn’t backfire on me.
Thanks for relaying his greeting, Grace. Wow, I’m happy to hear that you both reached the same conclusions and came out together. I’m trying to do better at remembering who here is in what situation. The stories here run the full spectrum.
I’m glad we have this place. Thanks for including me in your new family. Even if I end up being the red-headed stepchild, I will still appreciate being here, lol.
JB,
Consider yourself officially adopted.
We loved having the younger ones in our lives, they filled our house with laughter & we let them be themselves. It got awfully lonely when they started to back off from us (parents would have told them to) but we didn’t hold it against them because we know that they’re just victims of victims like Ray Franz put it.
Well, say goodbye to any loneliness you guys might still be feeling… I’m moving in IMMEDIATELY! Now, eh, there’s a rumor going around that I’m in my mid-forties, but no, that’s all baloney. I’ve got that Benjamin Button condition that makes me look 40 years older than I really am. Just set me up with a comfy bedroom, and all the food and chocolate chip cookies I can eat, and we’ll be in business! And tell Papa G that I’ll be expecting a game of catch in the backyard everyday too!
Ok, I’m just bein’ goofy. But thanks for that nice comment, Grace. It made my day!
Hi Grace’s hubby. He sounds a bit like mine, except the penny dropped with him just before me. Mine tends to ban the subject in our household unless there is something really significant to talk about. He hates the cult.
He was an MS and got to see firsthand all the crap that went on and he used to tell me about it. I remember when he attending the meeting about the theocratic warfare stuff, he freaked and from then on, he told me he wanted to step down as he couldn’t stomach it anymore. I protested like a good theocratic wife and realised after a while that he needed to quit as it was making him so depressed. From then on, my attitude changed. The flaws began showing like I was looking though a magnifying glass. I couldn’t believe what I was actually seeing for myself.
Anyway, I’m so glad to communicate with your wife and everybody else here on this site. It’s great. All the best to you.
JB, I know your not in your forties because you know the same music as me. I threw out my record collection too.
Well Meredith J, various ages could apply. We could go by how I FEEL on a daily basis– in which case you could go ahead and consider me to be in my NINETIES ;)
Meredith,
Wouldn’t it be funny if we were in the same circuit. haha
JB,
Age means nothing to us, my best friend is 83 but she has the energy of a 40 year old at heart & we’re 50 but we’re really immature like 30 year olds.
Grace, you guys sound like my kind of people, m’dear :)
Now, I want you and Meredith J to meet at the front doors of the Sydney Opera house on October 31, at 12:00 noon. Both of you wear a red hat. In case there is more than one beautiful lady there wearing a red hat, the secret phrase is: “Pardon me, do you have the time?” And if you’re the one asked this question, the answer is, “No, my watch broke about 20 years ago.” With that exchange, give each other a big hug, and enjoy being best friends for life!
JB, you are so funny. It’s probably not that far fetched an idea. I live on the South Coast of NSW. Really, could have been in the same circuit who knows? Where are you? I mean you don’t have to give everything away. We are on the internet, so nothing too exact. Which state are you in?
I meant Grace. I know JB doesn’t live in Australia.
Wow Meredith J, you really ARE pretty close. I’m a good guesser! (Ok, ok, maybe it’s because the Sydney Opera House is the only Australian landmark that the average American can name, lol.) To tell you the truth though, as I was writing the comment, I was thinking about how incredible it would be if you and Grace actually did do that and meet. (I’m still sort of hoping that you do.)
Where you at, Grace?
Meredith J, Grace’s reply is wayyy down below on this page.
Ted, what a horrible story. That is the first one I have heard on the blood issue. How on earth can these elders sit in committee meetings with people in extreme distress, begging for their spiritual life, and disfellowship these little sheep? But I would bet my last dollar that the elders in my former congregation with the blessing of the outgoing CO would have the exact thing. I’m beginning to think they get a pathetic power rush watching people grovel.
When people are sure they have the truth either as administrators or R&F. It may be a more poisonous draft than the religion & politics coctail? Acts 17 v 11
Apostate is a word for witch hunters.
Along that line, the new world translation loves to use the word, even using every chance they can it’s less then 20x in the scriptures, and almost half of those are in the book of job, where it really should be translated “ungodly” because really if apostasy is a standing off from an organization then what organization did job, bildad, zopar, ect…belong too, the brotherhood of Edomnite?
In the few cases where the term is applied specifically to an individual, it’s always applied to a faithful person by wicked /misguided people as a weapon. .
Truly the real apostates are in Brooklyn/Warwick. They are the ones that trample on Gods word and correct his sayings to fit their publishing cult agenda. Keep praying for their unmasking. Jesus said that anything we ask with genuine faith would at the very least be listened to. I hope there are enough of us praying for the truth about the Borg the prevail. I believe God is still on his throne and he is still in control smiling as we awake from the chains of these judgemental hipocrites, back into the love found in his word. My new and last religion is my personal relationship with my creator, my personal prayer and study of his word. I gladly share his love with others and live according to Hesus teachings. Some get sidetracked and cannot see the forest, because the trees are in their way, focusing on ancient history in the Bible that occurred to people so distant from us both in time and culture that we try and judge how things went down through the snippets of information found in the Bible. Slavery, Rapeing, pillaging, sacrificing of innocent lives is all still happening amongst people who reject Christ to this very day. Just turn on the news and see what’s happening in the Middle East. We must stay focused on Christ, not focusing on him is the reason my family got into this Watchtower mess.
Robert,
I still have some small belief in God. Only because when I had my brain snap (it literally felt like one), I was having so much inner turmoil & I didn’t go to the memorial because I knew that the ritual was wrong to what the scriptures say & that everyone should be partaking if you stick to the Bibles version.
I have my doubts about the Bible now but I still believe that something came over me that night. It was the most peaceful feeling, what people describe as having God’s presence & this feeling that “everything will be alright, I am with you” came over me.
It could be put down to my brain finally saying to me; “It’s okay. You’ve jumped the first hurdle”. I don’t know… but it’s something that I will always remember as a major moment & it was at that moment that I was able to breathe again.
I experienced something similar. I was so frustrated that I began cursing in my prayer. After a few minutes, I dared not open my eyes, because what I felt felt holy. A calming presence that soothed me. After that, I started to fade from the congregation and I’ve never felt so happy. My family insist I return, but I tell them if I did, I would be as depressed and hateful as I was in my previous experience. And that is something I don’t wish to be. Hopefully, when the watchtower finally crumbles down, my family and friends from the congregation will realize why I left and we can be together again.
Hi Roman,
That was awesome that you had a similar experience, it’s good to know that someone understands the feelings that go with it. Something that you don’t forget.
I hope that you can be a great example to your family that life outside of the cult is happy & fulfilling & that being spirituality minded doesn’t have to be all consuming by dogma & pretentiousness.
Robert, I have no problem with people retaining their religious faith and discarding only the dangerous interpretations insisted upon by the heartless fools leading the Org. I suspect that the majority of people leaving the Org will land in that category. But when you mention those who no longer see any evidence of supernatural inspiration in the Bible as ‘not being able to see the forest for the trees’, it’s a little misleading.
When you present your super-simplified, Golden-Rule-centered, tunnel-vision-on-the-nice-things-Jesus-said interpretation of the whole Bible, there aren’t merely trees keeping us from seeing that—there’s a mountain of contradictory Scriptural evidence obscuring our view of it.
Throughout the pages of the Bible, we find acts of unimaginable brutality being authorized, ordered and many times carried out personally by God. Things that, if you asked yourself, “Would I have done that?”, you would reply to yourself, “Of course not! That would be unimaginably cruel!”. However, when the God you want to believe in is guilty of those things, you say, “Well, His ways are higher than my ways. Those things must be okay.”. I know, because I did that for 9/10 of my life.
But when you would personally judge an action as being heinous yourself, and then turn around and judge it as loving and righteous when someone else does it, well, that’s the same level of logical disconnect that got us all in trouble to begin with.
It goes without saying that this is an incomplete and extremely summarized version of my side of the Bible/God argument. Clearly though, we will both stick to our intransigent views on the matter. I’m not trying to start a debate here in a place that I know isn’t made for that. I just couldn’t let your lil’ poke at us non-believers slide by without a peep. I’m only human, lol.
Keep up the good work of trying to help as many people as you can get out of this life-sucking cult, mi Amigo (sincerely).
Grace, I started writing this comment before yours popped up, so please don’t take it as an answer to your heartfelt comment, m’dear. :)
@JB Reezner, I have come to the same conclusion as you have about the Bible. I don’t for one minute believe it was written by a perfect God and I will give a for instance at Leviticus 21:1-3 where it reads “And Jehovah went on to say to Moses: “Talk to the priests, Aaron’s sons and you must say to them, ‘For a deceased soul no one may defile himself among his people. But for a blood relation of his who is close to him, for his mother and for his father and for his son and for his daughter and for his brother and for his sister, a virgin who is close to him who has not become a man’s for her he may defile himself.”
Going over to Leviticus 21:9 it reads: “Now in case the daughter of a priest should make herself profane by committing prostitution, it is her father that she is profaning. She should be burned in the fire.”
I don’t believe the Bible was inspired of a God but if it was inspired by a God, I would not worship the kind of God who endorses a man being able to “profane” his own virgin sister and also burning his sister in a fire if she prostituted herself. The Bible is full of stuff like that. If we were to dismiss the Hebrew Scriptures, then the Greek Scriptures are meaningless.
When Jephthah said he’d offer up the first person who came out of his house as a burnt sacrifice to God, that is what he did. Acts 7:42,43, Stephen said it was to Moloch and the star of the god Rephan that they worshipped in the wilderness for forty years. Stephen said it wasn’t to his God that the Israelites were rendering up burnt sacrifices all those forty years. So then who was it that gave the law to the Israelites if it wasn’t Stephen’s God???? It seems to have been Moloch and Rephan. Why would anybody even listen to any of the Mosaic law if it was given to the Israelites from Moloch and Rephan and angels?? That explains why that law sanctioned slavery and the selling of their children into slavery and the slaughter of millions of innocent people who just happened to live in the land that the Israelites seemed to have been promised to by their god.
Anonymous,
That’s how I felt for years about Lot offering his daughters to be gang raped by the township to spare the men (angels) that sat in his house.
Grace, I can’t think of even one place in the Hebrew scriptures where women were treated with the same respect as men were. As a matter of fact, it seems that women were treated as nothing but property of men and that account of Lot’s daughters always bothered me too, no matter what kind of spin the Society put on it.
Grace, I would submit to you that you should still be utterly repulsed by Lot’s actions in that story. There does not exist an acceptable excuse for something so unloving and disgusting. I don’t remember what trick I used on my own brain to be able to accept that part of the story, but it never did sit well with me. And let’s go ahead and add to it that Lot’s wife was killed a little while later for turning her damn head around. [Of course, I no longer believe these were actual events, but nevertheless, whoever wrote these stories had some fairly serious misogyny issues, and issues of cruelty in general.]
Anonymous, those are extremely interesting points. There are enough bizarre and vulgar entries in the Mosaic Law so that that alone could provide enough evidence against the notion of a loving God being behind it. As for the people who contend that Jesus was the fulfillment of the law and brought about the end of it, why would they feel like that’s a license to dismiss the importance of the fact that such a law with many sickening and cruel directives existed?
I had a friend tell me “That was another time.” Well, if a day for God is 1,000 years, then it was less than a week ago. What made him go from being such a brutal, misogynistic, genocidal megalomaniac, to a warm and fuzzy teddy bear–that I should be full of adoration for–in less than a week? (Except, yes, I realize that at Armageddon my guts will be strewn from one end of town to the other, so he won’t be very warm and fuzzy then.)
For me it starts at the very beginning, with Adam and Eve. Why create two children who you love very deeply and then set them up with a test that will bring about their DEATH and the miserable suffering and deaths of billions after them if they become guilty of one simple act of disobedience, like eating a fruit from a tree (when simple acts of disobedience are things that humans are nearly inevitably going to do)? Why such a HARSH punishment?
Why not have a provision that allows them at least the possibility of proving they are repentant and undeserving of eternal DEATH… for eating a fruit?
Why not step in and defend Eve when she’s being psychologically attacked by a multibillion-year-old evil genius who, with no effort at all, could easily sway the mind of a naïve, brand-new human being?
Why allow Satan to REMAIN part of the equation on Earth, tormenting people, and exercising–especially in our day–more supernatural power against us than God himself is willing to use against him?
Why did Adam eating a fruit cause demons to get permission from God to come down and take women for themselves?
Why kill the ENTIRE human family, including little children? …But even if you want to, why do it in such a horribly terrifying way?
What did a 4 year old little girl do to deserve seeing her parents screaming in terror as the water level slowly creeps up, and then hear them struggling and gurgling right before her father’s arms fall, dropping her into the rising waters where she also drowns, ending her screams and her state of absolute panic with a few involuntary gasps that fill her lungs?
To think that I used to accept that these were the actions of a God who “personified love”…
Anyway, that only gets us through Genesis chapter 7, but this comment is already too long.
These comment columns are lining up in an interesting way. Let me do something a little devilish…
Jwpow, since the beginning of time, the appropriate conclusion for mankind is atheism, yes?
Yes it is..both then and now
Since my answer was a day ahead of the question I must be a prophet. !!
Hahaa! Jwpow, you caught me. Thanks for being a good sport. I was a being bit naughty, lol.
Annnnd, apparently I’ve lost my grip on the English language. “I–was–being–a–bit–naughty.” There, I think I got it right that time, lol.
I am still a JW but I know Now after so many years who really they are! Like most of you, I have all my family in the JW cult, no one knows what I am feeling or what I am thinking about the Jw. No, no event my wife, my son, my whole family. If they found out you guys know the consequences. It is very hard and sad that you can not do anything for them. I’m very happy for this website and you all
Feel free to comment good or bad.
P.s. you know the most important and powerful thing in the world and universities is
“LOVE” with out it nothing excit. And you all have that love in your face.
May Jehovah and Jesus Christ blessed you all.
@ Abel Alvarez. Many of us are also still in the truth held hostage at the moment waiting for the right moment to free our families. We also understand that if we just quit, we lose that vital tool which is communication with these still indoctrinated loved ones. As we wait keep studying the truth about their truth on sites like this one http://www.jwfacts.com or http://www.extj.com in Spanish. This way you’ll be ready to give a defence of your faith to any who require it. John 8:32 Welcome to the freedom that only comes from the truth.
Make some time today to watch this video from JWcrisis
http://youtu.be/DG01AFAk5rU
Great video!
@Abel Alvarez- I feel you pain, believe me. I too am still an “active” witness, even still holding on to my MS position. Most of my family are witnesses. My father is really brainwashed, almost militant like in defending this cult so you can only imagine how I have to be super careful. My awakening took place about two years ago, and I have never felt better! I continue to report time, but I never go out in service (except when the CO is around). Fake hours. Fake return visits. Fake placements. All fake. Just like this cult’s leaders and their “spirit guided food.” The best thing was finding out that I am not alone! I went through the EXTREME shock of finding out that my religion that I came to LOVE and BELIEVE my whole life was nothing but a lie. And worse still, that the men who ran it, were nothing but liars!
So, I made my decision to HELP as many as I could to discover THE TRUTH about “the truth!” But I could only do that if I remained “active” so that my friends and family would still listen to me. So I consider myself a “double agent” working to uncover the lies that this cult is trying to hide! All I want is the TRUTH to be made known to everyone! Which reminds me of what Jesus said at Luke 12:2 when he said, “There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known.” :) :) :) :) :) :)
That applies to this cult as well.
It’s too time consuming to write you everything about myself, but read my posts! I’m quite new to this site (posting only about a week, reading anonymously for several months) so you don’t need to look back more than this post and the one about Warwick.
But this is where you come in, Abel. Use your position (“active publisher”) to help others while being free of this cults laws and false doctrines! Be a double agent like myself! It is quite fun and exciting at times. There are MANY things you can do! For example send everyone you know anonymous emails and texts about the 607 BCE lie. Provide them with the research but do it nicely. Believe me, when they start to research 607 and find out that it is COMPLETELY WRONG they start to find out other things! I usually start with a simple question and provide research. Only the completely IGNORANT DIEHARD FOOLS will continue to believe in 607 because they know that 607 is KEY to the entire “faithful slave” lie! No 607 = no 1914. No 1914 = no 1918 = no “slave” = no JW CULT!
Anyways, I posted this a few days ago but I heard the hacker group “Anonymous” is on the WT’s ass now and you know when Anon is your ass, you did something not too nice! (Yeah, like covering up the child abuse scandals, lying about dumping toxic waste and covering it up for the sake of “Jehovah’s holy name and organization,” changing doctrines on a yearly basis because you’re a bunch of false prophets who can’t get it right so you call it “NEW LIGHT!” WTF?????????!!!!!!!!!!!
It makes me so mad thinking about it! Remember, the WT uses “theocratic warfare” to fight for their existence, I think it is only right that we use a little of their own medicine to expose their lies! EVERY HUMAN has the right to know the truth. ENOUGH WITH THE LIES!!!!!!!!!!!!
PS. Make a bucket list of all the things you always wanted to do but were forbidden to do because of this cult! Go see a rated R movie! Smoke a cigar! Have fun with the girls ;) and play paintball and grow a beard, and WEAR TIGHT PANTS! WEAR THE TIGHTEST PANTS YOU CAN FIND! LOL DO WANT YOU WANT!
Don’t let this fear hold you back. The whole cult is based on FEAR.
It is exhilarating to be free! Free your mind and your soul of the evil chains!
@Abel .. You are WELCOME Here on this Site where there is PLENTY of REAL LOVE!! UNLIKE Watchtower Make Believe Land where LOVE is CONDITIONAL( PBCLI- JB Knows what this means!!
Sweetie some of us in thre same boat and keeping each other afloat ruthlee.
Slightly off topic, did anyone catch the news item from N.Z. I believe, that the deaf community felt they were being targeted by the witnesses with sign language trained publishers. No surprise there, however the branch DENIED they knew anything about and chalked it up to coincident.
A little more on this subject. ..I could see a response like “we didn’t mean to offend but we were reaching out to the deaf community ” but to absolutely deny that there’s any substance to the report.?..and the spokesman for the branch, is that the same Spinks form the A.RC.?
God they’re liars.
Wonder if this is related
http://jehovahswitnessreport.com/blog/jw-translator-found-dead-in-watchtower-facility-in-florida
Narcissists hate anybody they can’t control and who can think for themselves and with that hate, they will set out to ruin them in the eyes of their families and friends. The narcissist has an insatiable appetite for control and adulation and the person who is not tricked by the con artist narcissist, is an obstacle that stands in the way of the narcissist’s con.
As long as a person with low self-esteem is willing to give the narcissist the adulation and attention that they crave, the narcissist will maintain a pretend relationship with the person with low self-esteem, that is, if the narcissist stands to gain in some way by maintaining a relationship with that person. It is much the same as a farmer using a tractor. The narcissist only uses people for their gain and will pretend to “love” that person as long as that person gives the narcissist what the narcissist wants, either attention and adulation or money.
If the thinking person does not give the narcissist what the narcissist wants, then the narcissist will target that person with utter rage. If you are fortunate, then the narcissist will just abandon the person who is unwilling to play the narcissist’s game.
In the JW religion, the narcissist is the “slave”. They all have God delusions and it was reflected in Geoffrey Jackson’s comment at the Australian Commission on child sex abuse when he said that he would have to ask Jesus when he gets to heaven. That comment told the whole world that he considers himself already judged by God and having passed the test while all the rest of us little people “hope” we pass the test at the end of the 1,000 year reign of Jesus Christ, that is “if” we make it through Armageddon.
The Governing Body requires worship and adulation and those who think for themselves and who are unwilling to worship the “slave” will be the target of the narcissistic “slave”, i.e. the Governing Body and will be disfellowshipped for apostasy or the subject of a marking talk. Either way, the person will be punished by the Governing Body.
They will be made to pay the price for their defection for the worship of the Governing body by the Society’s minions, the elders. The congregation will follow the orders of the elders and shun anybody who has the courage to stand up against the Governing Body and the Governing Body will delight in punishing that person.
At the end of every jwbroadcasting, the Governing Body member says how much they “love” all of us. That “love” is based on how much use they can get out of us. We “love” our car if our car is in working condition but if that car no longer serves a purpose, we will dump it and get another one. We are like a car to the Society and once they don’t get any use out of us anymore, they will dump us and get a new lover who will idolize them, like what they crave.
The “love” that the Governing Body feels towards the rank and file is the sensation that megalomaniacs feel, knowing the power they hold over the rank and file. They “love” the feeling of power that they have over our emotions, our thoughts, our behavior and all aspects of our lives.
If we have the courage to break free from their control, we can expect from the narcissistic “slave” a full-out attack on our morality, character and integrity. They will make our name mud in any way that they can to destroy us. That is what a malignant narcissist does when they can’t get their own way but we will be the one that will be accused of leaving such a “loving” religion and we will be accused of being selfish and petty. They are like the three year child in the store who throws himself on the floor and screams and hollers when they can’t get the toy that they want.
A “relationship” with the Society is a one-way relationship with all the take on the side of the Organization and all the give from the rank and file.
If we have the idea that we were created as individuals with unique personalities, we will be the target to be humiliated, shamed and even targeted for destruction. The narcissistic “slave” has no use for people who can think for themselves and they will do whatever it takes to ruin that person.
What makes the narcissist miserable is when we break free from their control and are happy. They can’t stand that.
It is almost impossible for a normal person to comprehend how people can be that evil but once we have been the subject of their rage and attacked for not idolizing them, we come to the realization that people like that do not deserve any respect and do not deserve the benefit of a doubt.
They are not in touch with reality and live in ivory towers and have no idea what it like being a regular person in the real world. They are evil individuals. Anybody who takes pleasure in hurting people is evil. They don’t disfellowship people because they want to “save” them. They disfellowship because they hate them for standing up to them.
Absofreakinglutely, the organization condemned the Catholic Church for the mild shunning they do up into the 1950’s when the number of friends with functioning neurons became more than they could handle. The only way to keep these spiritual men and woman from spreading the truths they were learning about the Borg was to fabricate a family and reputation anhialating form of shunning. Where the marked person was to be removed from the congregation and never spoken to again, even by their own family. Truly this anti-God organization keeps disguising itself as an angel of light, but the physical proof and overwhelming testimony from legitimate witnesses of God on these matters condemns them as the true apostates of the faith.
@Robert- As you already know, I no longer believe in any supernatural beings. That said, I know Jesus’ message. The more I examine my cult, the more I can see that they are anti-Christ! Nearly all of the big TRUTHS that Jesus was speaking about like, LOVE, not allowing MEN to make rules over you, to understand that there are just TWO COMMANDS that he gave – LOVE GOD and LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR. THAT IS ALL.
Where is the LOVE in shunning? I know they always say, “oh but shunning is LOVE because it is Jehovah’s way of keeping the flock clean and making the DF’d person come back to him…” blah blah blah.
My sister attempted suicide after her UNJUST Df’ing because WE (my family and I myself) all shunned her. It was so evil I can not imagine. It is a long story which I do want to rehash any more. I’m already shaking just thinking about what it did to my family and tearing the whole family up. In the end, she found happiness despite her shunning. One of the happiest days of her life and MY life was after my own awakening when I set out to visit her for the first time in years. And then finding out that she FULLY forgave me and we cried for hours. We missed so much time as a family because of this cult. I swear to ^whatever guy is up there flying around^ I will make them pay for what they have done to my family and the hundreds of thousands of others. The pain and suffering so many have gone through… no way, would Jesus approve of this cult’s lies. Complete opposite of LOVE. Always so preachy preachy about “oh we have LOVE we have so much brotherly LOVE love love LOVE LOVE love love LOVE!”
But the truth is this is a cult of fear, depression, lies, domination, RULES OF MEN, brainwashing and even death.
Actigall Ur- I too came to shun loved ones out of blind faith( the kind God rejects) and also have concrete faith, that as you expressed;whomever is in charge up there will act on these matters.
As far as these elders James 3 comes to mind and helped this former elder come out of the Watchtower Matrix turning his position as elder aka judge,jury and executioner.
“Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom (not from the bible, but books about the bible hot off the press). But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition (every elder)in your hearts, do not boast and be false to the truth. This is not the wisdom that comes down from above, but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there will be disorder and every vile practice. But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere.” (Not the elders)
ActigallUr,
I can’t blame you one bit for feeling the way that you do. I would be feeling the same way too. You are a braver person than me to be able to hold the double agent position that you do. I personally couldn’t do it because I just wanted to run & get out but I don’t have family still in.
Geoffrey Jackson’s comment at the Australian Commission when he said that he would have to ask Jesus when he gets to heaven is totally ridiculous.
They have produced the most bizarre interpretations (pyramidology, beth sarim, Pleiades, false dates) for more than a century without thinking how stupid Jesus would look and when it comes to children protection they cannot allow any common sense over extremely literal interpretation of certain Bible verses.
I feel ashamed that I was part of this toxic religion. They want the best of your existence and when you cannot agree with them the turn friends and family against you.
Matthew 21: 31 the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.
I believe these words are true, it is very scary how inhumane the actions of self righteous people can be. For sure apostates are more Christains and would never shun any human being. Shame on you!
@David . You Make SO MANY GOOD POINTS in your Comments & Yes I Expect we All Feel a Bit Stupid how we ALL FELL for the CLAPTRAP of the GB before Researching it Properly like the PYRAMIDOLOGY ,PLEIADES ,FALSE DATES, Etc
Would Jesus Reveal ALL THIS RUBBISH through his Supposed F&D Slave ?? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!
I Enjoy your Comments & you SHOW GREAT INSIGHT!!!
Hi Anon, strong stuff but you are so right in your conclusions. As i said earlier , iwould break this cult with generosity and make them pay everyone who had a claim against them until every last penny was spent. They would hate that the most because they have dollar signs in their eyes not one beam of Kingdom light.I think they would truly gnash their teeth if they had to part with their ill gotten gains but that is my wish. Thanks for your post Ilike it when friends can speak the strong stuff because it has to be said. Best wishes ruthlee
It’s 30 years since I first went into a K Hall snd got the ‘ Truth ‘ Wow how times have changed! I never ever thought that I would see K Halls demolished and the land sold off. Magazines being reduced to bi-monthly and bored staid witnesses in Town centres by their carts, boy is this religion in trouble! Not to mention all the pending Court Cases they have stacking Up! ‘Get out of her my people ‘ that’s what I advise. Do not share in her sins! Come to us on this site. Share your burdens, you are not alone! If I can break free anyone can! Much love to all on this site, Innocent Son.
@Innocent Son . NICE COMMENT !! & yes never would have believed such DRAMATIC CHANGES in WATCHTOWER LAND in such a short period of time!
… THERE is a GOD After All !!! …. What More Proof do we Need???
You are right. When I see the carts I do not know wether to cry or laugh. So you see for one week magazines with pictures of an atomic mushroom cloud to warn how close Armageddon is. The following week there are magazine about the DNA. To me this is not normal, is crazy! If they really believed that Armageddon is so close they should warn with megaphones every week. Armageddon is the trick that allowed them to build a real estate empire ignoring Jesus world to help the poor.
Same thing applies to the name of God. If they think the name is so sacred why the reduce Jehovah to a J in a commercial styled logo. The J appears in JW dating sites for example. Is this respect for the name Jehovah? You have Mc Donalds, BP and JW.org. God reduced to a commercialised product.
Obviously the normal witnesses do not realise these flaws until is written in a magazine. This is the robot you become when following men.
I hope that people become more rational and do proper research before giving up their freedom for a doomsday denomination.
Innocent Son, when asked by the presiding overseer why I had stopped attending meetings, I politely said exactly what you quoted
“Get out of her my people, unless you want to share with her in her sins”. The elder said to me, “So you feel that the Witnesses are part of Babylon the Great?” and I simply said “Yes, I do.” Thank goodness he left it at that. He just let us fade out. He did not have anything to say to counteract it. Innocent Son, things still haven’t changed. In fact they are much worse now from what I have been reading on this site. I endorse this thought completely because it is correct.
Thank you for your kind words, Pickled Brain, Meredith J, Dave. I wish my brother was still around, He was an Elder for many, many years, got the ‘ truth ‘ in the 60’s He started to have doubts 15 years ago and did extensive research… Course the Borg. Didn’t know and tried to get him back, he faded gradually. He would of loved this site and made many valuable contributions. Unfortunately he passed away last year after a short illness. When I think of all the time we spent pioneering, going to meetings e.t.c. It completely dominated our lives. WHAT A WASTE OF TIME!
@Innocent Son . Thank you for acknowledging my comment & yes you are SO RIGHT … MANY WASTED LIVES … But SO MANY are SEEING through the Watchtower Curtain & the CORRUPT INNER WORKINGS of the GB!!
Sorry about your dear brother. Sounds like you came in around about the time we did. The time wasted not enjoying life with real family is very sad. Unfortunately, we cannot turn back the clock of time. We can just hope in the resurrection. He was a good person and will be remembered for it. I’m not trying to sound preachy but I have always believed in this hope and still do. The failed Watchtower can never take that hope away from you because it is written about in the Bible.
I used to think that I would be struck down by lightening, just for being on this site! I will say it again ” Get out of her my people! if you do not want to share in her sins ” The Borg is collapsing and the Collective are in disarray. Squirm some more G B Your very existence is terminal. No Heavenly rewards for you! Just public humiliation.
“For it is time to begin judgment with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not believe the gospel of God?” 1 Peter 4:17 NIV
Just a thought… if the definition of Apostate applies to one who has rejected the Blood of Jesus as the Son of God, who has redeemed us… how many here are in fact, truly Apostate by strict definition?
Exciting and interesting times ahead. Will we see a Reformation before our eyes or just a collapse of WT structure as it takes the title of a suburb of Babylon the Great (has my vote)
Mmmmmm
GEM,
I have not rejected the blood of Jesus as the Son of God.
St. Thomas was allowed to see and feel your Lord’s wounds, was he not?
I demand the same proof! If St. Thomas was given INCONTROVERTABLE proof then we should be given the same opportunity, should we not?
I am confident that, if you are right, then the Lord will provide us all with the PROOF we need.
So, am I an Apostate, Gem?
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Gem, I think the thing that we are concerned about is not whether or not we are any form of an “apostate” or not but why we should be shunned for not believing Watchtower doctrines or not.
You can watch debates with apostates and God believers from the time you get up in the morning until you go to bed and most people will either still believe in God or they won’t. You can’t convince anybody who is already convinced.
It usually depends on their own experience that they have experienced. If they feel they have felt the hand of God, they will always feel that God exists and they will always want that good feeling for anybody who doesn’t believe in God. It all depends on their own experience and nobody else is able to experience that person’s experience. So, it’s a losing battle one way or the other when it comes to trying to convince somebody who has never had that experience because they haven’t lived in that person’s body and vice versa.
For many years, I was absolutely convinced that God answers our prayers as long as it was in accordance to his will because I was convinced that He answered my prayers. But if you think about it, why would God answer my prayers when there are literally millions of children dying every year and why would he be answering my prayers and letting all those little children die? It is selfish and arrogant to think like that.
When good things happen to us, bad things happen to people who have done nothing wrong and a lot of those people are believers in God and praying to Him, whether it’s the Watchtower God or any other God. When good things happen to them, they ascribe it to God answering their prayer and when bad things happen, they ascribe it to Satan.
There is no proof one way or the other that God answers anybody’s prayers because those experiences are unique to that particular person. That would be the one proof that God exists. If God doesn’t answer prayers, then either he doesn’t exist or if he does exist, he doesn’t care or is impotent. It can’t be explained away as he’s “testing” us. That is just an excuse. The Watchtower has an answer for any reason a person can come up with as to whether or not your prayers are answered by God.
I know when I was reading the Bible every day and really believing it was from God, I also had that sensation that there was a God. I think it was because I had the feeling when I read it that it was truly inspired or God breathed but since, I have found out that there are no original manuscripts and all we have are copies of copies and there is not even one Bible being printed today that is truly “inspired” of God. So, if you read it and read it with critical eyes, instead of reading it with rose colored glasses, you don’t have that feeling anymore when you read it. When you read it critically, you see lots of things in it that don’t make any sense at all and if it was from a perfect God, it would make sense all the way through. That is where I am at.
I don’t say there isn’t a God. I just know that and and all Bibles that we have today are not inspired of a perfect God and are full of inconsistencies.
I find the God of the Hebrew Scriptures (Jehovah) to be a horrible God. That is not a God that I could ever respect or love or want to worship. Jesus, on the other hand, seems like a good person but the Greek scriptures depend 100% on whether or not the Hebrew Scriptures were from God. That is where I am at.
The point that I think is important is that we are not interested in being believers in God or not. Our point is that we should not be shunned if we lose our faith in the Bible and the Watchtower or not. That is the important thing to me. I don’t believe anybody should be trying to convince us to be believers. I think they mean well but if people don’t come on here, trying to convince us to be believers, we wouldn’t come back with why we don’t believe.
I don’t want to beat a dead horse but this video is powerful. I’ve watched it twice just to see if I missed anything. One of the best videos of its kind. I’m sure there are probably THOUSANDS more like these brave people that would love to come out of their coffin but are still afraid.
I’m just curious, how many here would like to take a more active role in helping spread THE TRUTH about “the truth?”
I see lots of good comments here. Anyone is welcome to respond to my inquiry- DF’d, DA’d, faders, whatever. The only caveat you must have a strong desire to HELP THESE LOST SOULS BREAK FREE OF THE LIES, then you are welcome to email me- which is my name here on this site, no spaces or dots, all one word at activist.com.
I’ve got already a dozen+ anonymous volunteers helping to spread the TRUTH around the US and Europe. I’m hoping to add a few in South America and Canada. Anywhere really. Plus I’ve got some great tips and secret info if you want it! Let us just say that Pandora’s box has been opened. The lies can no longer be hidden!
With respect to all Bible believers, if you’ve been able to get
past what some of us see as absurdities. Not to mention the
atrocities, ordered by Yahweh, then I commend your insight,
although I’m completely baffled by it.
If God knows the end from the beginning, and everything
In-between ISA,46:10. That means that Adam & Eve were
set up, they were just a couple of patsies.–
Sin was inevitable, and all its consequences. Not just death
but dying in agonising ways, such as from cancer, from hunger,
or murder etc. Sinful humans would produce psychopaths
like Stalin and Hitler who slaughtered millions in agonising
ways. And the list goes on without end.
And the pointless point of all this? So Yahweh could
redeem us from what he had caused in the first place, and
what we were unavoidably born into. Meriting our eternal
gratitude and praise. His means of accomplishing this?–
By having his son cruelly murdered, an act fore-ordained
from the founding of the world. REV, 13:8.
The saying goes, “It takes all sorts to make a world”. I don’t
oppose your right to believe, and I hope you don’t object to
my right, not to believe, Best Wishes, Ted.
@Ted- Exactly! I won’t even bother getting into the philosophical aspect of you and I needing a redeemer or, a “sinless Adam” to pay a ransom and then wait another 2000+ years after the ransom was paid all for NOTHING! Unless of course God is evil and loves to see his creation suffer. I mean, the world population grows by 250,000+ PER DAY yet our “growth” is down to 217 and falling. So you do the math. Let’s take a nice round 250,000 people born everyday minus the 217 “saved.” That means each day that the end does not come, according to my scientific calculator and using complex math equations, I arrived that 249,783 EXTRA PEOPLE MUST DIE AT ARMAGEDDON….
Yeah, that makes lots of sense! LOL Unless Jehovah’s real name is “Sadomasochist!”
Anyways, as I said, I am a man of logic and reasoning so here is some logic and reasoning. So the BIBLE teaches that ALL SOULS that SIN MUST DIE (Ezekiel 18:4). At the same time, my cult teaches that WE HUMANS and ALL ANIMALS ARE LIVING SOULS. Got that? So at what point did animals “sin” that they must die and suffer the SAME EXACT FATE AS US?
For example, my dog. He was a good dog. A loving and loyal dog. I don’t think he ever committed a sin in his unnaturally short life. How could he? Can he read the bible to know that he can’t go around screwing every hot dame he sees? LOL Yet, he died a slow and painful death from cancer until we finally had to have him euthanized.
Did he deserve this death?
My grandfather died a similar death- slow and very painful. He fought hard to survive and lived much longer than anyone had expected, including the doctors. I remember us praying that he would go quickly in death just so he would not have to suffer any more. As the Patriarch of the family, he was key to the entire family being JW’s. He was an elder and full time pioneer for 30+ years.
Did he deserve this death?
I already am thinking of the ten other excuses I was taught to rebuttal this question, but as a man of reason, the most logical conclusion is- WE are animals and we die like animals. Sure, we have this incredible state of self-awareness that animals do not posses… or do they? Who cares? What matters is the JW cult is filled with LIES!
Abigail Ur- ill high five you on that last part, the rest we will just have to agree to disagree.
@Ted I believe you just governing bodied the heck out of those text or we’ll just say you GB’d them. That is what the governing body does, pick out selective text and obliterate their context. One would definitely agree that the designer, creator and giver of life can know what the reaction to any action will be and given the fact that he can read all hearts and the inclination of every man, well, he definitely has a one up. That does not mean that everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen is all written somewhere. From its very beginning to its end Gods word the bible tells us the history of humanity and the human condition. It is a book that revolves around choices, choices made by men and God reacting with the foresight of the aforementioned attributes, in whatever way he sees best for the bigger picture. John 3:16 sums it up. Either you CHOOSE to have faith or you don’t and once in a while there are individuals who God sprinkles a little extra blessing on in order to counter a move by his invisible enemies. I believe Lloyd to be one of those people, moved into action not just thoughts of action in order to spread the truth about the WT truth. Wether he believes or not anymore is irrelevant God is using this man for a great work of freedom, not unlike many we read about. You have to stop focusing on the barbarian times of the Bible, barbarism , which affected the entire planet not just a small Caananite tribe. As students of the Bible not JW’s we know better. Our study of biblical context doesn’t stop at Revelation 22 and were done. As far as being damned for sins we are commiting while God himself allowed us to be formed with sin, your spot on and their begins the evil message of the governing body and its shunning policies not of God himself who’s will is that all mankind come to know him (our shared story) and be saved. No one is saved by peddling magazines, but faith in that God is going to keep his word. (1 Timothy 2:3,4) The God of the Bible has adjusted accordinglye to the evolution of mankind culminating in the atonement of all our sins, we cannot out sin Gods love. We are even free to reject it if we so choose. Remember James exortation in 1:13-16 to his Jewish church brothers who were beginning to fall into the hands of that eras version of the WT “12 Happy is the man who keeps on enduring trial, because on becoming approved he will receive the crown of life, which Jehovah promised to those who continue loving Him. 13 When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone.14 But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn sin, when it has been carried out, brings forth death. 16 Do not be misled, my beloved brothers.”
It’s each one reach one and keep your eyes on the prize. There are tens of thousands of different flavors of Christianity of which the WT is a small and insignificant part in the greater scheme of things. I implore all here to reinforce their Bible knowledge I know the WT just beats John 17:3 into us, but they consider reading their hot if the presses publications to be the fulfillment of Christ request. Jesus closed all of scripture after checking defective churchs at the beginning of that book by ordering all NOT to add their Brooklyn based or any other kind of human inspired brainfart to scripture and not to hide anything in it. We here know for a fact that the GB stick to a fixed set of passages and regularly twist scriptures context to fit their printing and real estate empires agenda. Please don’t do the same.
“You have to stop focusing on the barbarian times of the Bible”
That statement is a thing of beauty, Robert. It perfectly exemplifies the thing that happens in our mind when we WANT to believe something other than what our mind is telling us is true. And yes, you are correct that, if someone wants to believe that the God of the Bible is the personification of LOVE, then he/she will necessarily HAVE TO ignore the parts of the Bible that feature the unconscionable acts of barbarism perpetrated by God himself.
On a positive note though, Lloyd will be delighted to know that God is up there sprinkling on him. :)
Bwahahahaha ಠ_ಠ what have I done.
Lol, this is an Amnesty day for the non-believers, Robert. You just have to go along with it!
Too bad you didn’t have 607 more apostates, then there would have been 666 APOSTATES! (that is if you take the penalty of time, times and half a time for ‘failure to inspect’ and then add 1/2 of a person using the ‘hour per person’ rule as set out in Rev. 8:1,2 when there was 1/2 hour of silence in heaven, applied as a credit for the ‘be quiet, listen, obey and be blessed rule’.) Please check my math, my ‘bum may be overlapping my brain?’ I’m still a bit confused by last weeks Bible reading of 1 Ch 1:1-4:43, which appears to describe an approx. 3000 year ‘overlapping generation’.
@RetiredLE
I absolutely love this! This perfectly highlights the type of absurd, hilarious, nonsensical garbage we have been brainwashed to believe is “the truth” just because the GB said it.
@RetiredLE
Watchtower flapdoodle & drivel = “THE TRUTH”!
LOL!
EW, too, right. The main reason for my ‘retirement’ = book study conductor – for Daniel Book, followed by Revelation Book (3rd time), Jeremiah, Isaiah I, Revelation Book Rev. (4th time) , Isaiah II….cough, choke…dwindled to sometimes two attendees from 30 – “book study” bites the dust… too bad the GB killed it that way. Remember when we actually had a book about Jesus and were able to make more than 30 second comments and didn’t know any of the GB members names? But never mind the man behind the curtain, don’t you know, there is no ‘evil slave’? That’s a big…”if”….not US beating you…
That Daniel book was the biggest load of rubbish I ever read. I knew they were going down when they produced that. It was utter drivel.
@Meredith J . … I think ‘The FINISHED MYSTERY was the Book with the MOST DRIVEL in it !!
You know I used to look at that book in the library and stare at all the pictures. I actually never read it. There was so much writing and it was very small. No wonder we were not encouraged to look too carefully at those old books. Written by looneys.
Seeing as the gb view this site and i havent got a hope in hell’s chance of them replying to anything i write them. Just a little word to YOU ALL. Hope you like us because we are all making our points and the tower is crumbling fast now. It is not a sad thing but a liberation of sheep who have been fleeced .Mainly our precious life but hey ho we don’t mind because we are moving on and growing stronger no thanks to any enlightenment on your part so please don’ take the credit when you see Jesus ok is that plain. Note also we quite like the name apostate because we can misapply just as much as you can , in fact anything you can do we can do better “No you can’t.Yes we can ,yes we can, yes we can…..”Tara , PB, Meredith (on chorus) all the rest of us the choir invisible ,JB reez on guitar….. RUTHLESS/ruthlee
Damn straight, Ruthless! I love it…
@Ruth Lee .. Did you say PB on Chorus?? … Oh COME ON … I WON’T ACCEPT anything less than LEAD SINGER???…. Then Maybe NOT .., if I Sing Like I TYPE … Hmmmm
okee dokee
Ha ha ha. Go for it Ruthlee. It is wonderful to be able to speak freely about all this now. My dirty secret is out and finished with. We all have different ideas and hopefully we’ll all get over our once complicated and stressful lives in the ‘truth’. Our ideas will probably cover the gammit as we are all different.
I believe the Bible. I just dispel the Old Testamont because Jesus said he was introducing a law of love. But others get hung up on it. I already worked all that stuff out before I actually got baptised, even though the Watchtower harped on that stuff. That’s just what I think. Each to his own.
love it
Robert67
Your a man of faith and if it makes you happy, then I’m happy
for you. Best wishes to you Bro,
Ted, you are loved anyway. We know you are kind.
@ Ted: Thanks for laying your own cards on the table. Anyone else feel that can have a stab at my enquiry?
At least Ted you have the honesty and courage to admit you are “Dyed in the wool”..true, blue Apostate as the BIBLE defines it. Not the trumped up WT version.
Bravo
Well GEM, if I’ve been too vague about my feelings on the matter, I’ll try to do better next time, lol.
@GEM for the record I do not now or will ever refer to myself as an apostate. Apostasy is what I left in the Borg,when I was rejecting Christ message in order to fit the WT model of a “publisher”. Instead of following Christ, I was following seven clueless CEO’s of a failing publishing company. I allowed myself to be carried away by their sweet sayings. I’m pretty sure this is an Ex-JW recovery site,not a recruit new atheist network. Keep that Atheist BITE model on some other forum.
I’d guess that everything will be back to normal by tomorrow, Robert. We’ve had a couple of days of both sides of the Faith issue being represented, but I doubt that many of the non-believers here (if there even are “many”) have any kind of agenda to sway people away from their beliefs. I know I certainly don’t. But a conversation about it can be healthy once in awhile. But yes, this site has specific purpose, and it’s a wonderful one.
Well, I’ve replied to another comment that you directed to someone else. Sorry about that, but my other comment is between yours and GEM’s, and I don’t want to look guilty-by-association of anything duplicitous (if that’s what GEM was trying to do.)
GEM, get in here and straighten this thing out.
I don’t mean to come off as offended by the name, just pointing out I don’t fit the description. I respect everyone’s perspective on the matter. I just believe it would be extremely counterintuitive for a jw to come on here seeking truth about the Borg and be bombarded by what seems to be a poop on God and people of faith arena now. These people are going to run straight back to the arms of the seven samurai and might never question them again. I see these comments as dangerous to this sites cause.
Robert, I wanted you to have the last word, but then you said somebody got pooped on. Nobody got pooped on. And our differing views have nothing to do with how much we all care about each other. It’s taking all I have to keep from LOVE BOMBING this whole doggone group because of how glad I am to have found you folks.
When you all talk about your Faith, I’m thinking about how good it is that you’ve let go of the dangerous parts of it that the Org indoctrinated all of us with.
But at some point, I think we’ll get a forum where there will be a little corner we can go to to chat with each other about all of our different viewpoints without much danger of scaring new people away who will be more focused on the main blog posts and videos.
But even then, we can just give it a try. If it ends up being too sensitive of an issue for all of us, we can just shut ‘er down and stick with only the encouraging stuff, which would be totally fine.
“seven clueless CEO’s of a publishing company”. How true. Too bad we didn’t know this when we got baptized. All that history of selling books from door to door and playing records to clueless people. Just a con to buy more books. Oh, why didn’t we figure that out?
I’ll say something GEM. Nothing is certain of course but who knows if we are in judgement? We always wanted to be good Christians. Really, what has changed, except that we were swindled by the False Prophet? I feel personally still responsible to try as much as I can to be a good person. I fail miserably a lot but I still hope that it is the right way to live.
The Watchtower just tried to destroy our faith and until recently I had pushed it to one side in my life. This site has reminded me of it once again. I’m grateful. The Watchtower is past hope but we are still here. I don’t know the answers but I do have a Bible which can give me encouragement to do what is right to my fellow man. Sorry, I’m getting preachy again.
Thank all of you folks for helping current and other ex JDubes. You have actually saved lives
Mr Hoop
@R Morris . NICE APPRECIATIVE Words from you !!
1914……..101 years and counting…….you would think that by now, the JWs would begin to wonder if something is amiss, something just doesn’t seem to add up………perhaps it will take another 100 years to make them realize that something is really wrong………cognitive dissonance at its best!
@EW .. Couldn’t Put it Better… 1914 … LAST DAYS Begin according to GB ?? Soon to be 2016 & the 102nd year of ‘ THIS GENERATION ‘ ??? .. SOMETHING FISHY I SMELL!!!
According to David Splane’s explanation, we can start the 1914 generation with Fred Franz, who was born in 1893. That would put us at the 123rd year of ‘ THIS GENERATION . ‘
Robert 67, astuto zorro viejo. I remember a few comments
back, who started the pooping game. Suggesting that
Bible sceptics , non believers couldn’t see the Forrest for
the Trees. A little presumptuous I thought to assume a
superior position and suggest that anyone who didn’t
agree with you was lacking in mental perception.
You can’t get away with that Robert, not even among
friends, which we all are on Cedars Site. I’m sure you
intended no offence, just zeal for your beliefs, right !
Anyway it’s past midnight here, I’m off to bed. Hope we
can put this subject to bed also. And concentrate on
on our main objective. Best Wishes, Ted.
@JB Reezner: You threw the gauntlet at my feet, Sir?
I love you guys ‘n girls. For the first time in years, I can open up my lungs and feel the life as I breathe in the air….Thank you, all…but especially Lloyd.
JB, I think my question was “on point” and cut to the bone within this topic.
Personally, endorsing Robert’s comments, I left WT 30 years ago… ex Pioneer, ex Bethelite.. feeling that the Apostasy was manifesting itself within the Movement. I retained faith, but NOT religion. I have too much belief in Design and Purpose to cling to Atheism as my “raison d’etre” but I comfortable travelling the path of reasoning laid out by You and Ted.
I would just love to hire a street café in Havana, don the shades (I have no objection to the smell of Puros either!), and debate the Universe whilst we sip our coffee and watch the 1950’s and ’60’s drive past. A Hemingway moment…. (get back on track, Gem).
A patient who is a city Councillor and Quaker by persuasion, recently asked me if I still believed in God. I answered spontaneously and honestly and said “No”, I believe in my Creator. “Oh”, she said, “as we prefer to say amongst the Friends, we all answer to Our Maker”. My comfort light went on. I reject Religion and the concept of a Superior being dictating a prescribed way of worship… religion.
But, I am an eternal Romantic. Who am I to reject the concept of Purpose and Hope in this weird old Universe.
May I offer you a thought that probably incorporates that thoughts of the majority here.
Do you remember Danny Kaye and the song in the production of “The King’s New Clothes” by Hans Christian Andersen?
The people were in awe of the King’s New Suit…wanting to please the King. Until, a little boy came along and pointed out that the King hadn’t a Stitch on! “The King is in his altogether, in his altogether…and as Naked as the day that he was born….”
Well, that is what Lloyd has managed to do for us. Whether this will lead to the break up of the Kings empire, or reformation remains to be seen. Establishing the Truth about anything…is what it is all about.
Just on a personal note. My Dad is dying. He is my very last connection to the WT movement. I was gutted when they removed his Eldership after 50 years of devotion. It was all he had left when my “Unbelieving” mum died 4 years ago. The very people he loved, destroyed him.
On Tuesday I will have a heart procedure under General anaesthetic. I have requested a cell saver. Crazy, but I just cannot cross the line on the “Blood issue”. The hospital has been kind. They have found another problem in the right atrium.
So, guys… all the best… and please, I hope I haven’t said anything that is perceived to be a jab at anyone on this board. That is not my intention. All the very best.
GEM
@Gem… HOPE It Goes Well at the hospital for you & yes I am with you on the Cell Saver issue … I would NOT Want Blood Except in a Last Resort Scenario in other words a Life or Death Situation so I would choose Alternative Treatment to Blood Not for any Biblical Reasons Just from a Lifestyle & Best Health Practises! This is Just a Personal Choice NOT dictated to by the Twisted Reasoning of 7 GB Men as their choice to have Fractionated Blood from Worldly People who have Kindly Donated it is Hypocritical on their Part since 2000 , because before that you could be DISFELLOWSHIPPED before 2000 for Taking HEMOGLOBIN but after 2000 you wouldn’t be …. CONVULUTED or WHAT??
For elective surgery some hospitals will let you bank your own blood. Of course it has to be done well ahead of time.
Oh GEM, there are so many sorries going on for me. So many sad situations but your poor Dad. They are cruel. Just reinforces how bad they are. I’m going to say “Good luck” with your op. Haven’t said that for many years so take that as a compliment for getting that out of me.
GEM, that was a beautiful reply. I’m very sorry to hear about your dad. There’s seems to be no end to the stories of people being completely crushed by Org. I woke up 5 years ago (and faded, telling no one), and 1 year after that my mother ended up with a terminal health issue. She would’ve had more time with us, but one day her red cell count plummeted, she lost consciousness, and the doctor carried out her wishes to not take blood. Needless to say, my hatred for this cult is unlimited. It is deeply satisfying for me to see it struggling, and the prospect of it completely crumbling is something I want so badly that I’m still almost afraid to even dream it. But Lloyd and Co are helping me to see that it’s demise could very well become a reality, and sooner than I would have ever thought.
About your apostate comment. Yesterday was a strange day regarding the God/Bible subject. Of course, I am more than happy for people to retain their Faith, but if someone adds to their profession of Faith a little jab at those of us with a different point of view, then a defense is warranted.
However, by the end of the day, I was thinking to myself that I’d probably stretched the boundaries a bit too much for what this site was designed to be for. So, when Robert used the buzzwords “atheist, BITE model, recruit” referring to your comment, it sounded like he was saying you were up to something nefarious, and I wondered to myself if I’d missed something in your intentions. So, I promptly threw you under the bus, just to be on the safe side, lol.
However, it’s hard to tell tone-of-voice with written text, so when I said to you, “Get in here and straighten this thing out”, I should’ve thrown in an “lol”, because I meant it in a lighthearted way, and did fully expect that you would step in and clear up any misconceptions.
As for the “apostate” label issue, I’m fairly lukewarm about it. If it’s a badge of honor, then I don’t think I’ve earned it. If it’s a term of derision the Org would apply to me, then I don’t really care. And it doesn’t faze me if people apply it to themselves, or prefer not to. But I do appreciate the beautiful way it was used in the video.
I wish you the very best regarding your upcoming procedure. As you would guess from the beginning of this comment, I would personally implore you to take whatever treatment will save your life if it comes to that. But I respect your right to choose for yourself, my friend.
Thanks again for your beautifully written comment. I loved the imagery you added to it, GEM :)
@Gem, I am also hoping everything goes well for you with your procedure. I also am afraid of blood too unless it’s life or death. I do think it is safer to have an operation without blood if that is possible but sometimes it does mean that person will die without it.
I am imagining a young child, lying dead on the operating table and how heart breaking that must be for the doctors trying to save their life.
The Witness is thinking that if they die, they will just wake up in the “new world”. That is no different than the “worldly” church goer who believes that their loved one is in heaven. It might be comforting to people who believe like that, but that young person’s life has been cut short.
I know far too many people who have lost their young children, many, many years ago and they are still without that child in the “new world”, waiting and waiting and it never comes. How much better to take the blood and live instead of the “hope” of seeing that dead loved one in the “new world”. Our children’s lives are not something we can go to the store and get another one when that one dies.
Hi folks hope you realise my little note to gb was ironic and tenderly sarcastic. I do not believe any of us are apostates even those who have no religion this is a non judgemental site i hope and our collective realisation is getting out of the tower. What we do, believe after that is our choice. I find some comments exactly what i believe others a good alternative take on things.All equally valid. Hope thats ok with you all. NB MR Pickles , you CAN be lead singer in my chorus with seven selected backing singers bleating as you direct. ruthlee
@ruthlee … Sweet of you to Allow me to be LEAD SINGER in the Group !! Our Theme Song could be …’ My GENERATION ‘ by The Who … Though I don’t know if the TERRIBLE 7 in Brooklyn would approve of some of the words like ‘ I Hope I Die before I Get OLD’ .. Then Again the Words are more probably More Accurate than their Interpretations of …’ THE GENERATION ‘ that will not Pass Away !!!
We know Ruthlee. It’s okay.
Ruthless, I don’t know about anybody else, but I personally was HORRIBLY offended, lol. :)
You’re one of my favorites, m’dear. I can find nothing wrong with any part of your comment (except that you forgot to mention Tara’s heavy metal kazoo solo at the end).
ha ha ha ha ha rl
cheeky ;)
I like Sundays because folks here who are still having to suffer through going to the meetings come back with little juicy tidbits of crazy things that were said, or hopeful signs of the Org’s demise.
So… what’s taking you guys so long??
PB, surely YOU were shooting spitballs at the WT conductor, or something. I need some details, lol…
JB, Another the ‘end is imminent WT-pp17’, starts with required reference to 607 BCE -pp1 and 1914-pp5, changes to a pseudo devil’s advocate approach, with erroneous application of “Just in the days of Noah” – ‘Thus the Scriptures indicate that world condition during the last days would not become so extreme that people would be forced to believe that the end is near.’ pp 6-7 citing Matthew 24:37-39 – conveniently ignoring how the conditions were actually described at Gen.6:5, which completely derails this line of reasoning.
PP 15-16 are the ‘standard issue’ …”By preaching the good news of God’s Kingdom, we….can help to rescue persons from sure death in the coming world catastrophe”..with a very poor illustration of a real life ship disaster, that followed and only confirmed how many good (worldly) people are out there to save our sorry ‘bums’ when we’re faced with real life catastrophe… this is another ‘truth’ that expedited my retirement…
There we’re booku comments on “how we are REALLY doing a lifesaving work” and the required “If God had ended the world 10 years ago, how many of us and new J.W.’s would not be here, ready to be saved.” This one was an epiphany when I realized the real ‘truth’ that there are approx. 70 million people (net -births minus deaths) added to the worlds population every year and using the best possible ‘new ones baptised’ (obviously, not net growth) of 200,000 new witnesses , EQUALS THE FACT THAT GOD IS BRINGING ONTO THE EARTH 69.8 MILLION PEOPLE, EACH YEAR,TO DESTROY AT ARMAGEDDON! i.e.- equates to 1 day of new J.W.’s and 364 days a year of pagans to be destroyed. So, sister ‘glad we’ve had the last ten years’….that’s 698 million more bodies to build the New World on top of…http://www.worldpopulationbalance.org/faq also http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/statistics.php
…correction..698 million more bodies of ‘babes and children’ …to build the New World on.
Not my definition of “God is Love”
Wow, excellent rundown, RetiredLE! Thank you very much.
Good point about Gen 6:5. It doesn’t really paint a picture of everything going along as usual.
Every time I hear the “just as in Noah’s day” thing it reminds me of Ray Franz talking (in Crisis of Conscience) about the Org floating the implication that the end might come in 2034, hinted at here: w03 12/15 p. 15 pars. 6-7 Our Watchfulness Takes On Greater Urgency — Only 120 years more and Jehovah would bring “the deluge of waters upon the earth … Noah received the warning of the upcoming catastrophe decades in advance, and he wisely used the time to prepare for survival. … What about us? Some 90 years have passed since the last days of this system of things began in 1914…
I guess that idea never got any traction. And, they correctly decided that they should give themselves more time than that.
Your point is right on the money regarding the population increase vs. witness increase per year. That point finally hit my pea-brain awhile back.
Before then, though, I was already thinking, Why would there be a delay in Armageddon to bring new people in? There would NEVER come a time when there were simply no more people willing to become JW’s.
Of course, now I do hope that there’s a time coming when no one will want to be a JW, but at the time, it seemed like fairly sound logic to rule out that particular flawed reasoning behind Armageddon being delayed.
But “698 million more bodies of ‘babes and children’ …to build the New World on.” That says it all.
I appreciate the blow-by-blow of the meeting, my friend!
If there is anyone looking forward to Armageddon it would certainly be the birds.They will certainly be busy and working overtime after Armageddon strikes.
I recall one of the JWs who used to study the Bible with me saying that whatever carcasses are not eaten by the birds then we as Armageddon survivors would have to bury them – she is probably right, it may really be a stinky situation if there aren’t enough birds to gobble up all those dead bodies quickly, so get your shovels ready! Remember to grab onto one when Armageddon strikes!
But I’m sure the GB has a plan B in case we forget to grab a shovel when Armageddon strikes, they have this all worked out – they will be storing shovels at their new HQ in Warwick since the new HQ will be spared during Armageddon! RFLMAO!
This Armageddon nonsense is certainly BS. A person who dies before Armageddon without hearing “the truth” will be given a resurrection onto the paradise earth and will be taught about God during Christ’s 1000 year reign.
However a person who has never heard “the truth” and is alive when Armageddon strikes will be permanently destroyed with no hope of a resurrection. So it seems that it’s best that people die before Armageddon.
Hopefully a lot of people will be lucky enough to die before Armageddon strikes. Getting a resurrection is just simply a matter of the timing of one’s death. LOL!
I should have asked the JW lady who used to study with me, where will we get shovels from to bury the dead given that everything will be destroyed during Armageddon.
For that matter where will we get anything from to continue our existence given that everything will be destroyed during Armageddon – food, clothes, materials to rebuild houses, bridges and other infrastructure etc. etc.?
Will the power plants that currently generate electricity and the attendant infrastructure be spared?
Will the facilities that currently process potable water for human consumption be spared?
Since we won’t achieve perfection until the end of the 1000 year reign, will people still be getting sick? If so will hospitals be needed, will doctors be needed? Where will these doctors come from since JWs have been discouraged from pursuing higher education?
Where will we get the material from to build the hospitals? Or is it that people won’t be getting sick even though we won’t achieve perfection until the end of Christ’s 1000 year reign?
Will we still be experiencing the effects of Adamic sin during Christ’s 1000 year reign such as sickness and ill health given that we won’t achieve perfection until the end of Christ’s 1000 year reign?
It seems that we will, based on the GBs misapplication of a scripture that pertained to Israel’s hoped for restoration which they apply to the earthly paradise:
Isaiah 65: 17 – 25:
“……No more will there come to be a suckling a few days old from that place, neither an old man that does not fulfill his days; for one will DIE as a mere boy, although a hundred years of age; and as for the SINNER although a hundred years of age, he will have evil called down upon him……..”
So based on the GB’s teaching, persons will be dying during Christ’s 1000 year reign because the effects of Adamic sin have not yet been removed.
If people will be dying then people will also be getting sick during Christ’s 1000 year reign since sickness is also an effect of Adamic sin.
And I could go on and on and on……..
So typical, that they concentrate on “how bad things are” and “it’s so close to the end” when their organisation is crumbling to bits. It’s just a blind so that they have always used, their fear tactics to make people keep looking at them and not turning their heads away to see the real truth.
@ Meredith; Pickled and JB: Thank you for your personal gauntlet. And, just for the record JB, my acceptance of the Gauntlet of Challenge should have been followed by a tongue in cheek icon :), !
I will often play Devil’s Advocate in a discussion just to see if I can follow the reasoning of the Opposite bench, as it were. If you are an active JW at the moment and cannot see the glaring inconsistencies in WT dogma… there has to be something wrong with “your power of reason”. What did you dedicate your life to in the beginning?…indeed, to whom DO YOU belong??
I am touched by your own experience with your Mum, JB and you will never recover from such a deep wound.
Whilst working alone in territory close to Bethel some years ago now, I entered a complex of housing dedicated to temporary housing of International Doctors, Surgeons and other Medics.
A surgeon from Nicaragua (I speak Spanish) came to the door. I introduced myself and whom I represented and his eyes filled with tears.
He had just arrived from his home country and lost a 16 year old JW female patient… involved in a car accident. She had just passed the age of Majority in that country and he had to follow her wishes.
The tears streamed down his eyes as he sobbed…”I could have saved her…blood is the only oxygen carrier I could have used in her critical state.. she could have survived.”
I was stunned. I extended my hand to his and held it firmly. What could I have said other than he had respected her human rights and that she had a far greater hope. My gut, my head and my heart felt empty as I left him that evening. This just cannot be right.
My “Apostate” view is not “Apostate” at all. I believe each one should make his/her own decision in Medical matters… as Meredith mentioned a few comments back. Ingrained in me (as a Practitioner working in a profession Allied to Medicine) are all the dangers inherent in the use of Blood in Surgery.
If someone wishes to share their life blood and organs with another…that is a matter of conscience. This is 2015 and not 1981…things have moved on. By 1984, I had left WT behind me.
Your anger is a positive emotion JB. You have every right to vent it and those who endorse JW doctrine are not reflecting the glory of a loving Creator, who wants the best for us.
Peace, my friend.
@JB . YES !!! … SPITBALLS Indeed BUT he only took my hand once then pointedly Looked at me & Refused on 4 other occasions,yet took his Favourites hand 7 TIMES!!!!! It might have been to do with my comment on the Generation Length being 102 years &DRAGGING ON a BIT … Panting on to end ??? As Habbakuk said!!!
@PB: You are skating on THIN ICE, haha. But keep up the good work, my friend! I think you should just grab the mic one day and go on a 30 minute rant about the 7 MANGY MUTTS of BROOKLYN!
@GEM: Thank you for that reply. By the way, when I said “About your apostate comment”, I meant, ‘About the comment you made regarding the term “apostate”.’ You probably knew that, but that’s a little clarification, just in case.
Yes, the blood issue is particularly significant to me. Your account of the 16-year-old is heartbreaking.
I do still believe in an adult’s right to choose whatever treatment he/she wants for him/herself. And I acknowledge the risk attached to receiving a blood transfusion. When there is a safer alternative, and everybody on the medical team is competent enough to handle a non-blood procedure, then that seems like a reasonable way to go to me.
But if it comes to the critical point where a doctor is saying the words, “either accept a transfusion, or your life is about to be over”, and there are no medical alternatives, then I would implore anyone to reject any lingering loyalty to a cult’s perverse interpretation of an irrelevant restriction on eating blood (which I know you no longer subscribe to).
I liked Meredith J’s “Good luck” for your procedure. I will wish you that too. It’s funny how ingrained an idea can become into your psyche. I have started saying “Good luck” once in awhile, but, even THIRTY years from now, I’ll STILL be feeling a weird little tingly feeling when I do. Like I’m being naughty or something. The human brain… it’s a helluva thing.
@JB … I did Hold on to the Microphone one Meeting after I commented as I knew this One Elder liked shooting SARCASTIC Comments at me . After I had answered about 5 times one meeting ,he said ‘ YOU are on FIRE TONIGHT’ !!! … So I said ‘ I Must Give You Credit … You Are VERY BRAVE TAKING MY HAND’!!! The Laughs Rang out Across the Hall!!! I Like to keep the Elders on their Toes!! One appointed man said to me ‘You Have So MUCH Knowledge & you are Regular at Meetings & always on ministry & your Bible studies are Progressing at the Meetings … How Come you aren’t an Appointed Man??? .. But it is my Near to the Mark Comments that I know what is preventing them recommending me … WHICH SUITS ME FINE!!
PB, if I were rich, I would gladly pay for whatever clandestine audio/visual equipment you would need to record your comments at your meetings! I think everybody here would get a kick out of that. Keep on doin’ what you’re doin’ :)
The screening and testing of blood for infectious viruses/bacteria/diseases has advanced tremendously since the 1980s so that today in the 21st century, there is a very, very minute possibility of contracting diseases from donated blood via a blood transfusion.
My personal preference however, is to use alternatives to a blood transfusion if possible. This is not because of the GB’s flapdoodle about blood transfusions – if a blood transfusion was absolutely necessary and there was no alternative then I would certainly have the transfusion done.
Wild! Love it!
@PB that’s an absolutely Wild comment! I absolutely Love it!
Indeed it is dragging on just as Habbakuk said – this may very well be the GB’s next new light explanation to prevent a mass exodus.
GEM – First of all I want to apologize if anything I have said was offensive in any way, shape or form. We share a very common hatred for the lies that we suffered through while captives of the Jehovahs Witness. I believe we are seeing many different and some very loose interpretations of what constitutes an “apostate”. I still very much believe in the Bible as our makers word. When it comes to interpreting what that the word apostate means I have to stick with how that word describes it.
“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it [Jesus’ return] will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,” (2 Thess. 2:3, NASB).
Apostasy means to fall away from the truth. Therefore, an apostate is someone who has once believed and then rejected the truth of God. Apostasy is a rebellion against God because it is a rebellion against truth. In the Old Testament, God warned the Jewish people about their idolatry and their lack of trust in Him. In the New Testament, the epistles warn us about not falling away from the truth. Apostasy is a very real and dangerous threat in the Bible. It is my belief that this “apostate” title more than clearly applies to the Warchtower Bible and Tract Society, not to its victims. I have not fallen away from the truth despite my decades in the cult nor have I rejected Christ. It is through this understanding that I, not out of judgement of others, but out of conviction of my own faith in the Bible refuse the title.
You and everyone on here have my love and remain in my prayers everyday. I know for a fact that our maker understands what we’ve all commonly been subjected to and as our maker he knows the true intentions of the heart.
I truly hope we can all put this behind us and I will definitely try and be more sensitive to others who don’t believe in a God anymore after their JW experience.
I would implore all regular visitors here not to censur themselves, but to be mindful of all the wonderful advancements that have been happening in exposing this cult and that as a result this site will recieve many more regular JW visitors. Please, please do what you can not to scare them off permanently. When your still running with the WT virus in your programming you are conditioned to run for your very eternal soul at the mere sight of people ridiculing God.
Galatians 6
7 Do not be misled: God is not one to be mocked. For whatever a person is sowing, this he will also reap; 8 because the one sowing with a view to his flesh will reap corruption from his flesh, but the one sowing with a view to the spirit will reap everlasting life from the spirit. 9 So let us not give up in doing what is fine, for in due time we will reap if we do not tire out. 10 So, then, as long as we have the opportunity, let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to us in the faith.
And
Psalm 1:1,2
1 Happy is the man who does not walk according to the advice of the wicked And does not stand on the path of sinners And does not sit in the seat of scoffers. 2 But his delight is in the law of Jehovah, And he reads His law in an undertone day and night.
I was never shunned or marked, my awakening happened by comparing what I read in Gods word to what was happening witchin the organization. As an elder my humanity was being sucked out of me not by God and his requirements, but by the anti biblical and downright vile ever changing instructions of a false and glory seeking undiscreet slave class.
Please think of the small window of opportunity a single visit to this site offers to those inquiring from within the Borg. I truly believe our maker is not indifferent to how this cult has affected us emotionally, mentally and even physically. I have absolute faith that he smiles down on everyone here doing their part to help others break free of the JW cult.
“I will definitely try and be more sensitive to others who don’t believe in a God”
And then the comment goes on with its aim of not-so-subtly trashing us.
I hope that even the other believers in the group are a little irritated by your insistence on putting thinly-veiled jabs in your comments, Robert. In the interest of peace, I’m not going to keep calling you out on it, but just know that it never goes unnoticed.
None of us have ‘ridiculed God’.
You’re killin’ me…
False modesty, its the Bible his word that you ridicule. I won’t resort to copying and pasting the numerous comments passing judgement on Gods past desisions in scripture available in just this article alone. All I am asking for is a toning down. It would be something else if everyone on here turned out to be Bible bashers and no one left to defend it.
I appreciate the directness of that statement, Robert. I like directness. This is a good point to hit the reset button and get back to work bashing the 7 BOZOS in BROOKLYN and being there for each other. Yo soy un hombre sincero. (De donde crece la palma.) Which is actually true– I have one in my front yard, lol.
Thank you JB…well put on behalf of us who have left our belief on a divine being and a divine handbook behind… Its just felt so good to be freely atheist in at least one area of my life…and after a lifetime of criticism…of not being good enough for Jah…of always missing the mark…of being disciplined and chastised…all by men…I love the equality on here of everyone whatever our beliefs…and I enjoy your reasoned unprejudiced and well mannered comments…just thought I would say!
Idontknowhatodo, thank you very much, my friend.
Here, here Robert67. The term ‘apostate’ then if you look at it in the Biblical context is showing that the Watchtower is in fact an apostate because by rejecting truth is misrepresenting God and rebelling against Him. We are the lost sheep on the mountains. We are not apostates.
Jesus said “By their fruits you will recognise them.” Just look at all this bad fruitage we have all come to know about. Like the 2 Witness rule and what it has done to people’s lives, the busted up families, ruined lives, suicides and mental cruelty heaped on willing, humble sheep. You are right. They are it.
I could never stop praying… if I said I was ‘apostate’ it would be to the Borg. never to God. It is the damage they have done to so many people. Jehovah has never done that. I just want back my simple hearfelt love for my God that I had before I became a witness. I am confused in so many ways as to what is Truth. So by stripping it right down and avoiding doctrine is my only defense.
Labels are very useful in the supermarket, but sticking them
on people creates barriers, especially in the mind of the sticker.
People change, life’s experiences see to that. But in the mind
of the label sticker that’s not taken into account. It would be
wonderful to go back to my youth, but regarding my conduct,
my attitude and personality back then, I prefer not to dwell on it.
The change is ongoing, if we have a receptive mind, who knows
what our views will be in the future. I refuse all labels, apostate,
atheist, agnostic, or whatever, I’m just me. That’s why I enjoy
being on Lloyds Site, we can all be just who we are, ( At this
moment in time.)
Just a word to Gem, our thoughts are with you, look forward to
hearing from you in a short while. Best Wishes, Ted.
@ Ted: Aw thanks, my friend.
Thanks for your words Pickled. I am sorry if my last post was a bit jumbled. I am prepping for Admission today.. I am very tired and breathless, so my thoughts are a bit disjointed. Apologies.
Yes, somehow this site cuts through it all and gives the chance to express feelings. I have only been pounced on maliciously once.. you know, knees on shoulders, pinned to the ground and taking a real pasting across the chops (U.S: face cheeks). This site is tremendous.
I hope to be in touch when I emerge at the other end of this turbulent tunnel.
Sante, Saludos, Prost, Skol, Good Health everyone. Pax vobiscum!
GEM all positive and happy thoughts of love and recovery to you from me ,ruthlee
@ruthlee: Thank you for your well wishes. You are all phenomenol!… and breathtakingly Human x
If anyone can spend a few minutes to pop over to the ‘TMS gone’ thread, we have some pro WT people who seem confused in this site is satanic.
@Tara …, PICKLE is GOING into BATTLE …., in a Nice Gentle Way ?? Just Following our Loving GB??
“EXTERMINATE.. EXTERMINATE”
A reference for my friends across the pond :)
I’m feeling a little sensitive today. It’s thanksgiving here and I’m on my own. My ex and his wife have stolen my kids and grandbabies and i’m avoiding the meeting too. Just didn’t feel up to taking on anything else.
(っ˘̩_̩˘)っ My puppy and I send you hugs from the USA, Tara (whether you like it or not)!
This canuck excepts hugs :)
Great! And, Oops, I thought you were way over “to the right” of me, with PB and others. Instead, you’re wayy up there above me. Cool!
Tara, I am am giving you a big cyber hug from Wisconsin, U.S.A. from me. This religion shows it’s real face when we stand up to it. It’s worthless in every way possible and stinks. Hopefully your grand babies learn about the real truth about the truth so they don’t get baptized and you have them in your life. Any religion that breaks up families has to be from the Devil and the best thing for us is to get out of it just as Revelation says to do. I for one don’t want to be associated with liars.
No I am done with it. Where were my brothers and sisters when I am being victimised by my ex and his wife – no where in sight and yet out of the blue comes my daughter in laws family and collect me from my sons house where I have taken refuge. They take me home and make me have thanksgiving with them.. I feel so humble. I never knew it could feel like this.
@Tars … You have a GREAT SENSE of HUMOUR &’A SENSITIVE PERSON TOO!!
A Good Combination !!
Ah PB you are awesome :) a non witness friend once told me to NEVER loose my sense of humour… I thank everyday for his wisdom. I may hit rock bottom but I can usually find something daft to say… thats the Brit in me.
And from Australia, try and hold your head up. It won’t always be this bad for you tonight. I know thanksgiving is really important to Americans. We can be your company for tonight. Why not make a cake or do something to occupy yourself with. Don’t get down in the dumps. It’s not worth it.
my daughter in laws family came and collected me. they took me into their home and made me have my very first thanksgiving dinner with them. I feel so humbled and yes, thankful. Thank you guys. you are my new family too. I’m in BC Canada btw.
Thanks Mer. I have non witness cousins in Australia and love them lots – even though I have never met them and only know about them through Ancestry.com lol. They found me and love me unconditionally. I have you guys on here and I feel as if we have known each other for years. :) you don’t know how much it means to me…
Dear Tara belated thoughts of sadness and love to you at this sensitve time. Isn’t it amazing how you daughter in law came through is’nt that the god thing to do? All these conversations and feelings are not going unnoticed sincerely ruthlee
Oh, I am so glad. I think someone Tara is looking after you and making it clear who is not. I hope you had a nice time with those ‘strange worldly people’. They’re really not that bad. I have family in the US too. He is a cousin who is a Witness believe it or not and he is as distant as ever. Typical. Thanksgiving in Canada. Could think of worse places to be.
Any information on what was covered at the JW assemblies that were held in the US over the weekend? Asked the wife and she wouldn’t tell me, just said it was wonderful (of course!!!!)
I am doing some research on the correlation between the use of the WT terminology ‘society’ vs. ‘branch’ in specific connotation with the arise of the ‘helper’ class from 1994 forward.. So far I’ve seen in my dated (2010 version) WT library a huge tapering off of the term ‘society’ (in KM) during period 2000-2009. Any insights on this phenomenon? I believe I may be on track of the beginnings of the most recent permutation of the GB and their penchant for self glorification. Cedars article of 2012.. http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/the-governing-body-of-jehovahs-witnesses-explained , identifies that all of the current GB come from the ‘helper class’. For those recently or long time associated, especially Elders, when did you first notice the gradual and then overwhelming use of ‘branch’ and especially ‘faithful slave’ in correspondence and WT study publications? Did you ever have any contact with, direct or anecdotal evidence of bethelites, district overseers, circuit overseer, etc. that denoted a deep concern for an obvious change in the GB’s attitude about their lack of notoriety among the common J.W.’s?
As I recall during my time as an elder I noticed some serious and disturbing changes happening just before the 2011 annual meeting. That entire meeting was more like the dropping of a new iOS. The letters that started coming in seemed more and more like smokecreens designed to make the elders chase their own tails trying to decipher what it all meant. At least where I was located the changes in terminology and use of it caused alot of turmoil and bickering amongst the friends. Divide and conquer comes to mind. As long as you keep the elders bickering amongst each other nothing significant of good will get done and make the elite in Brooklyn shine that much brighter.
Robert, very interesting, as this was after my retirement, thank you. If you were an Elder for many years, you remember the earlier times when a CO visit with Elders had a balance of local familiarity mixed with ‘suggestions’ from the ‘Society’. This exchange was fairly reasonable with Elders trumping or ‘tongue in cheek’ with any radical CO’s that might come along. I saw this change over the aforementioned time, after 1994 and the advent of the helpers and the new use of ‘branch’ instead of ‘society’..things became progressively much more autocratic.
We had good CO’s, great CO’s and the occasional slug. With one great CO, we were shocked when he came back, directly to us, from a meeting with the GB, in early 2006. He was visibly and totally troubled, instead of considering the ‘branches’ information. He wanted our help and opinions on what he had just experienced. Seems, while there, the main focus was berating the travelling brothers for the fact that the vast majority of local J.W.’s had no idea who any of the ‘helpers’ were or the names of the GB! We were as balanced and reasonable with him, as could be allowed, but he was never the same after that. One young upstart Elder (ex bethelite) made it his personal crusade to start shaming the bro’s and sisters for not knowing the GB’s names, even coercing the body into letting him give a local needs on this topic. That was the start of a disturbing trend, which in my opinion defines the current GB.
We progressively were inundated with letter after letter from the ‘branch’. All local heavies started using ‘branch’ in place of ‘society’ and you’d be corrected if you slipped, with the wrong terminology. ‘Faithful Slave’ became the synonym constantly put forward. So, if you wanted to make any bonus points on your commenting, you had to always interject the ‘branch’ or the ‘slave’ tell us…blah.blah.blah…. this also became common, progressive and required to receive ‘special privileges’.
Fast forward to all of the changes made in literature, song books, child indoctrination (Caleb and Sophia should be pictured as N. Koreans) and finally the self proclamation of 2013 of the GB ONLY, being the FDS, (and whitewash of the scriptural Evil Slave) followed by the peak of self glorification with JW Broadcasting… as has been commented.. we have our own TV Evangelists, now. They’ve finally fulfilled their desire for every witness to know their name…above every other name. Whilst throwing the long timers, elderly, etc…etc.. under the bus. If you’re motivated by scripture..Prov. 16:18 – “Pride is before a crash, And a haughty spirit before stumbling”..if motivated by cinema..Maximus: The time for honoring yourself will soon be at an end.
Last thought of the day a new song for our merry band. “Feed the birds tuppence a bag…..tuppence tuppence…..blah blah come on JB and PB i’. hoping you’ll lead… rl
Wait… You mean.. We’re putting the BAND BACK TOGETHER!? Ruthless and the Ruthtones? Helllll yeah!
Well of course I’ll be there to shred on my axe! PB will bring his mic (that he stole from his K Hall electronics closet), and will be alternating between SCREAMING and whispering. Tara will be there dancin’ like 70’s Tina Turner, and trying not to spill her “spring water”. Ted will be in the front row smoking a pipe and calmly tapping one foot to the beat (but on the 2 and the 4, subtly hinting at a jazz-level depth of comprehension of the music that even the musicians are unaware of). Grace and MJ will be singing doo-wops with their rhinestone-BeDazzled red hats on. Robert will be blazing out some tasty Flamenco on his classical guitar as I try to convince him that shredding on a distorted Strat is way better. Anonymous will ironically be running around screaming out her real name to everybody.
Then, we’ll all see Lloyd in the balcony, and shout, “Hellooo Lloyd”, but he’ll scream back, “MAN, my name is MR. MAN, dammit!”
And that brings us to Feed the Birds. I had to go back and re-familiarize myself with it on YouTube, Ruthless. I haven’t seen Mary Poppins in a loooooooong time, lol.
I can think of several more names here to put in the lineup, but it’s getting late. Feel free to get in here and tell us what you will be doing in this performance of the century :)
To Meredith & JB,
This is for the above comment re: where are we… I have been offline for a couple of days & catching up today before we fly down south for a week.
I’m in sunny Qld. North of Brisbane. My inlaws are down at Bega.
Hubby says…wouldn’t it be funny if a few red hatted women showed up. Haha you never know who is reading this.
Bit like Anonymous but with red hats lol
Grace, it’s okay, we can still work with this. Meredith J has a cousin that lives a few hours away from her and works at Fisherman’s Wharf Seafood in Ulladulla. If you and hubby could break away from the in-laws on Saturday, and drive up to meet MJ there at noon, that would be great! I recommend the seafood gumbo. I’m 9000 miles away, so I can’t make it (I know you’re both terribly disappointed, lol). But DO IT!! And yes, remember your red hat!
JB, don’t say that. Grace will believe you. Grace, I haven’t made a time and place. JB is doing it. Not that I mind his interest. For the record, I don’t have a cousin that works at the Fisherman’s Wharf Seafood at Ulladulla, but I’m having a good laugh about it. I do have a red hat though. LOL
Lol, okay Grace, if it needs to be stated, I really have no insight on MJ’s family at all, nor am I psychic in any way. Although, my recommendation of the seafood gumbo could prove to be true, because it is based on an actual review I read of that place last night. I’ll leave you guys to figure out how to meet up somewhere someday, if that is even really a possibility. I hope so :)
Grace, if you are still around: if it is easier, I can meet you at the Evolve Cafe in Bega. That is of course if you are incidentally coming down. The cafe is on the main drag near the shoe shop. If you can’t work anything out, don’t fret.
Grace, I’m not that far from Bega at all. Ha ha ha.
If you want to meet sometime, we can work out a place and time. No worries.
Bermagui Sundeck Cafe on the Fisherman’s Wharf is much closer but time, well, have to tie in with if you can get down here.
OH dear! sorry Cedars this got way off topic with my birdsong theme sorry. But as all can see we have been in the prison, the tower, the shunning desert , and hungry for some light relief. If and when we meet newly escaped ones i think this site should become recommended reading as part of the recovery process. If God willing there is time (which i think there is) It should become part of a HIGHER educational course as it explains so well the recovery process from the firsthand point of view. Also what a kick in the teeth to the dogs who will become toothless lions in time (a great mix of metaphors….Don’t judge my grammar!). red hats on sale in the foyer all donations to the gb porridge fund. tee hee ruthless/ruthlee
Theme of post: 62 “apostates” show their rejection of the harsh judgment intended for them by the Org with a positive, music-backed message and some dancing.
Theme of your comment: With a little song and some dancing, our little band rejects the Org’s repugnant judgment that all of us here are going to be bird food after Armageddon.
Level of relevance: 100%
You didn’t do anything wrong, Ruthlee. Maybe I went too far with my silliness, though. I shouldn’t let myself get on here and comment so late at night. My brain shuts down wayyy earlier in the day than that. :)
And the “Mr. Man” thing was something Lloyd was joking around about a few posts back. I guess that part of my comment could throw a reader for a loop if they didn’t know that.
On the bright side: At least I’m not taking Ambien to help me sleep anymore. If I were, I’d be waking up to probably-way-more-bizarre comments, and not even remembering writing them. (I only tried it for a little while, until I bought something on eBay one night that I didn’t remember buying.) Now I just have a recording of rainfall that is astonishingly effective at helping me sleep. Okay, NOW you can see an example of TRUE irrelevance, lol.
Brothers, I would like to provide you with some NEW LIGHT® that has just shone upon my head from my big fat office chair, 32 stories up in Brooklyn, overlooking the Manhattan skyline. What a view from…. oh sorry.
We are updating all of our literature with the latest NEW LIGHT®. For example from the Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.11 is says,
“Apostates “quietly” bring their ideas into the congregation, like criminals who secretly bring things into a country. Apostates use “counterfeit words.” This means that they say things that make their false ideas sound true, like criminals who make false documents look real. They try to get as many people as possible to believe their “deceptive teachings.” Peter also said that they like twisting the Scriptures. They explain Bible verses in the wrong way to make others believe their ideas. (2 Peter 2:1, 3, 13; 3:16) Apostates do not care about us. If we follow them, we will leave the road to everlasting life.”
However, because of the NEW LIGHT® it now reads:
“The Governing Body “quietly” bring their ideas into the congregation, like criminals who secretly bring things into a country. The Governing Body use “counterfeit words.” This means that they say things that make their false ideas sound true, like criminals who make false documents look real. They try to get as many people as possible to believe their “deceptive teachings.” Peter also said that they like twisting the Scriptures. They explain Bible verses in the wrong way to make others believe their ideas. (2 Peter 2:1, 3, 13; 3:16) The Governing Body does not care about us. If we follow them, we will leave the road to everlasting life.”
So the latest NEW LIGHT® that I came up with all MYSELF is replacing the word “apostate” with “Governing Body.” So from now on whenever you read literature with that word just change it in your mind. Got it?
Dear Bro. Morris what wonderful light shedding you have there :) I will be sure to take that on board… If I decide to go to the meetings this week. Jury still out on that one.
When will we be offered the autographed, limited edition, variant cover issues? I’m your biggest fan and absolutely love how you drop little hints of false modesty when you credit an article to yourself and not Gods word. Who needs Jesus when we have Mighty Morris surveying the realm and executing any that resist the cult indoctrination. I know for a fact you chill in mansions and rock Rolex watches on your wrist, but the camera never pans down to your shoes on JW Broadcasting, dare I guess Jordan’s?
P.S we should be together too
Dear bro morris You are a saint. Do you think we could persuade the gb to worship you seeing as you have more truth in your little finger than they had in 100 years of pontificating. ruthless/ruthlee.
This is the first time I have been on here and read all these wonderful comments. How refreshing! I’ve been out of the cult for 25 years now. I am now born again and I have never felt so close to my God. It’s exciting seeing recent developments in the organization. They must be trembling in their boots….one hopes so anyway. I’ve now been out of the org as long as I was in it. Seems strange, but good. My main problem is my inability to socialize. Sometimes I refer to myself as damaged goods. Thank goodness we have a loving Father who accepts us as we are. I am disabled and housebound and I find it very difficult to make friends. As I am DF’d my sister has nothing at all to do with me. She lives less than a mile away. I admit I do get lonely. I’d dearly love to meet exJWs who are now born again. Any in my area? I live in North Lincolnshire, England. This has been enjoyable and fun too. Nice meeting you all. Take care.
Adrian.
Beautiful! I can’t thank you enough for this video. I see people like me. After over 20 years, I can see that I am not evil, I am not mentally diseased, I am not a terrible person, I am not hell-spawn, I am awake and I am free to be my authentic self.
@adrian & Cherie .WELCOME & NICE to READ your COMMENTS …. You are ALL LOVELY PEOPLE !!! … SO BOG OFF WATCHTOWER !!!
Everyone called apostates by Jehovahs witness leaders Are not bad apostates or apostates at all but love truth and hate hypocrisy..
Jehovah with the nation of Israel would punish them by having enemies rise against them raising a resistor someone or someones against them..
They are wrong about the end and naked because Gods anger with them is Extreme and just as he had the Israelites wonder in the desert so he has the so called witnesses of him in the dark about the end…