62 apostates have joined forces to reach out to Jehovah's Witnesses
62 apostates have joined forces to reach out to Jehovah’s Witnesses

If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, you will have to be satisfied with remembering October 4th 2015 as the day congregations worldwide were informed of the scrapping of the Theocratic Ministry School – over a week after the news was leaked in advance by a Bethel source.

But if you are a former Jehovah’s Witness, or an “apostate,” you can take pride in thinking of October 4th 2015 as the day when more ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses than have ever before appeared in a single video with a message of love and concern for those still trapped inside the Watchtower organization.

Organized to commemorate the anniversary of this website’s launch on October 4th 2011, the short montage film represents the joint efforts of 62 “apostates” from far-flung corners of the globe. Rather than trying to condemn Jehovah’s Witnesses, the video sets out to debunk the damning stereotypes of apostates as disseminated in Watchtower publications.

Instead of appearing as foaming-at-the-mouth mentally diseased vagrants, the apostates in the video are calm, rational people who have walked away from a religion that causes far more harm than good, and is ultimately untrue.

It is hoped that the video, with its intriguing title, will reach out to as many Jehovah’s Witnesses on YouTube as possible, and get them to rethink their position regarding doing objective research into their cherished beliefs.

[Please note: Due to a music rights issue, the video does not play on all handheld devices.]

JWsurvey Day was first announced at the end of August, and the collaborative video was given the working title of “What you DON’T know about apostates.” A Facebook group was set up, and the script was made available online for people to choose which lines they wanted to speak.

However, as more and more people signed up for an ever-diminishing number of parts in the video, it became clear that something special was happening. The sheer number of people who wanted to share in delivering the video’s message was an event in itself.

Last night, as the deadline for the video drew close, I stayed up until 4 am making last-minute edits. Over 4 gigabytes of video submissions had to be sorted and whittled down to a final 15-minute short film. As the video took on its own personality I noticed a change was needed. The original title would be scrapped in favor of “62 Apostates Who Love Jehovah’s Witnesses.” (There are actually more than 62 apostates appearing in the film, but because I would rather downplay the figure than exaggerate, I have counted only those who speak in the final edit.)

I sincerely hope that we can do the video justice by making sure it is shared as widely as possible. It’s wonderful to see the enthusiastic response already on Facebook and Twitter from ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses who are enjoying seeing their own thoughts about Watchtower verbalized by such a wide array of people.

Special mention must also be made of all those who have worked in translating the subtitles for the video. Presently there are 8 languages available, but a further 9 are in the pipeline. Michel Mix (pictured below), a member of the JWsurvey Day group, has done a fantastic job of coordinating the translation project from his base in Colombia.

Oftentimes when I do activism work on my own (for example, a large JW Broadcasting rebuttal), I can find the process genuinely tiring – and even mildly frustrating. But when I am working with so many sincere people, I feel the burden lifted. Activism becomes the unbridled joy it should be. I am working with like-minded individuals who share my passion towards an important goal, which is one of the best feelings you can have in life.

A tribute to JWsurvey

When I first set up JWsurvey, it did feel like “my website” – and I still catch myself speaking in those terms occasionally. But as I look back on the work that has been done and the huge potential for making a difference moving forward, I find those ideas are shifting. JWsurvey is becoming more of a legacy.

In the most recent 2015 survey, one of the questions asks which resources have been most instrumental in the person’s awakening from Watchtower indoctrination. The answers as of October 4, 2015 are as follows…

table

In total, 1,218 have so far credited this website as either very or extremely influential in their awakening. This figure, and the figures for other similar websites, are simply astonishing. It is a sobering reminder of just how much work the internet is doing in chipping away at Watchtower’s stranglehold on people’s minds.

It also means the role of this website is more important than any one single person, which is why I have been gradually expanding our team of writers and illustrators over the past year or so. My eventual aim is to leave JWsurvey in the capable hands of the next generation of activists, to hopefully continue on long after the bulk of my work is finished.

In the meantime, there is still much work to do – work that is made far more enjoyable when I allow myself pause to reflect on what has been accomplished. In that spirit, I hope you will join me in celebrating today, October 4th, as “JWsurvey Day.” And I leave you with some short messages that have been sent in by our readers…

Please note, I haven’t been able to publish all the comments as some are too long, but I will try to find a way of somehow adding some to this article either as links to Word documents or as comments.

***

[Anonymous]

Put simply, JWsurvey enabled me to fully wake up. As an elders daughter who had pioneered – I faded from the organisation aged 21. I wanted to think for myself; I started to have an awareness that my thoughts were being controlled. This was not easy; I left behind my whole community to embark on a journey to educate myself and build a new support network.

Now aged 30, it has only been in the last 18 months that I have been fully awoken and free from JW indoctrination, thank you to JWsurvey and the John Cedars YouTube channel. This intelligent, insightful, educational, humorous and honest website, truly helped me to understand the facts as to why I had left. For this I will be eternally grateful. In the past two years I have been able to live a normal happy life, without any guilt, fear or regret – this is priceless. In addition to this, my child had been born free. One of the greatest gifts I could give him.

Please keep up the good work! You do an amazing job.
Thank you once again.

***

Yvette Rucker

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I became a witness in my early 20s. The promise of a paradise earth where there is peace and unity among all mankind especially between a husband and wife appealed to me.  I wanted this kind of world for my children. I studied and became a witness hoping and praying my husband would too and he did,  but it did not make my marriage better it only made it worse.  My husband believing that I now was scripturally bound to obey gave him total control and he was even more abusive. There came a day when I realize that if I stayed with him he would kill me and our children so I made the decision to leave and I did.

Of course, I was no longer good association because I separated from my husband and eventually divorced him to protect myself and the children.  Being a single mother was hard I had to work 2 jobs to support us but at least we did not have to live in constant fear.  The congregation had little to do with me so I received no help from them I was completely on my own  I missed so many meetings trying to work and take care of my children. 

My older daughter introduced me to your website because she no longer believed it was the truth, because of the way we were treated.  She pointed out scriptures that showed that her dad was not the loving Christian husband he should have been and that the elders were told and sympathized with him cutting me off from a faith I believed in wholeheartedly all those years.

I did read JWsurvey and all the links as well. JWsurvey helped me loose the fear and guilt that comes with leaving what you come to believe is Gods organization. I have been able to heal and i am still healing.   Thank you so much for the real truth about the Watchtower organization

***

Julia Douglas

2015-09-27 19.34.56

I remember when JWSurvey was just an idea and Lloyd was only known by his pseudonym and had yet to officially break ties with the Watchtower. I had already been disfellowshipped and was using my true identity on Facebook, but that’s not to say I was truly free of the brainwashing and programming. I struggled for a long time… and reading the articles on JWSurvey proved to be a regular source of fact-based, reliable information that I have come to rely on.

It’s always exciting when there is a leak, but more importantly, JWSurvey has been a comfort to the demons plaguing my mind. Lloyd has a remarkable ability to quickly read, digest, comprehend and effectively refute Watchtower propaganda, time and time again. Sensationalism would only detract from the well-reasoned information that JWSurvey presents, and Lloyd does not take short cuts. For all of these reasons, I would say JWSurvey is one of the go to websites that I regularly refer people to, and I hope that Lloyd and his team will continue to maintain the high standards of quality in the days ahead.

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Patricia Burford

patricia2

 I am a former JW, I left the organization when I was 17. Recently I accepted a bible study from a JW, I was having feelings of disconnect from religion. I thought since I had left the organization at such a young age, maybe I just needed to reintroduce myself and see if I had made a mistake all those years ago because of rebellion and my youth.  
In the few weeks of my study, some issues from my past started surfacing. I had to deal with issues I had pushed back all those years ago. I had a ministerial father who was very abusive and a pioneer mother who had no clue. I went to a congregation where the elders knew what was taking place yet took no action. 
I began to wonder why these things were coming to the surface 35 years later. I truly believe that in stages of our life we are led to face our past in order to grow and move forward. This got me to thinking about other JW’s, there had to be others that felt the same as I did and had similar experiences.
So I started to google, and JWsurvey popped up, I dived right in. I spent the whole day reading and watching the video’s. I found answers to questions I have had for years in just those few hours. I learned more about the JW’s and the organization that day, than I had being raised a JW for 17 years. John Cedars (Lloyd) has been there and experienced the same as we have.  He has proof and he backs up everything that he brings to the table. JWsurvey shows what this cult is all about and the information shared is to save us..
I am so grateful for all the work you do.
(Regarding the picture, I am the older gal… This is my daughter and I…)

 

***

Susannah

I left the witnesses aged 27. I am now 60. I have had a good life. I got an education, met some wonderful people and made a new life. I buried my feelings about family and friends. Around the time or just after my JW sister died in 2012, I discovered JWsurvey. I could not believe what I was reading. Lloyd not only understood but wrote about his experience, intelligently, passionately and with a brave honesty. I remember watching him in his car the night he went for his JC. I cried when his father wrote to him, cutting him off. Watching, reading and listening was like being given permission to breath and to speak. JWsurvey has helped me heal when I did not even realise I needed to heal. It has helped me recognise the folly of the beliefs. It let me get in contact with my anger, my sadness, it let me cry and then forgive. This is a cult that has held my family in fear and still does. The fact that JWsurvey exists may mean the next generation will be free. For that I am grateful.
***

Uwe Schoning

I da/df myself in 2003 … but defended the JWs and their policies a long time. Somehow in 2011 this stopped. A year later I knew I had to work up my past and I was searching for people with the same thoughts… that something in the organization was not right!

I found a German forum of escapists but felt like I would never fit in… and then I found JWSurvey.org and the kind words on this page showed me, that the author was indeed empathic and would exactly know what I was thinking. His objective arguments and the information he provided confirmed me… I had not left the truth… I left a dangerous cult. And his non-agressive activism showed me, that it is not a bad thing to be an apostate…

JWSurvey helped me to understand, that the truth about the “truth“ is a story about deluded old men, who think their claim to lead is based on a story Jesus told.

JWSurvey showed me, that apostates do indeed care for the people still caught in the organization… and are indeed good people.

***

Mika

Mika July 2015 40th BDay
My name is Mika from Michigan in the United States. I couldn’t pass up this opportunity to voice how helpful JWSurvey was to me when I found the courage to turn in my letter of disassociation from Watchtower/JW. Although I saw a different activist account and website first, JWSurvey/John Cedars YouTube channel and website were by far the most helpful to me.

Visiting JWSurvey helped me get an idea of what to expect beforehand from the shunning that was sure to and did follow my exit from the religion, I also found needed encouragement and support from the articles and community of posters. I have always favored the honest, logical, balanced approach and visitor feedback your website & YouTube channel affords which made it enjoyable to view/visit.

One thing it helped I’m sure many visitors realize, is the choice we had all along to free, happy lives without instilled fear through cult doctrine. JWSurvey isn’t extremist nor does it promote fairy tales, it simply states the facts and sets an example in speaking up against the harmful effects of cults in an empathetic way that many could relate to.

JWSurvey gave me much courage and support while helping me realize freedom and peace of mind were already mine, I only need reclaim it from the undue influence of the cult that influenced me to believe otherwise. JWSurvey educated me on effective ways I could help others. I know it would have been more challenging for me had I not came across your activism efforts, but I am beyond grateful that I did.I don’t want to sound overly dramatic here, but it is true when I sum it up in one sentence, JWSurvey helped me reclaim long-overdue emotional freedom and joy in my life.

THANK YOU!

(Editors note: This article was updated on 1 August 2017)

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Further reading…

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473 thoughts on “62 apostates mark JWsurvey Day 2015 with a message of love for Jehovah’s Witnesses

  • October 5, 2015 at 9:03 pm
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    Bravo!
    I’m an “Apostate” who remains trapped within the org. A victim of marital separation (Because that’s ok with Jehovah whereas Divorce is not…), my child would be turned against me if I left.
    This video was so spot on! I hope many a thinking witness view it to break down their fears. I am in complete agreement. I love a majority of those in the congregation – They are genuinely good people who are trying to lead good lives. I do not hate JWs, I hate the lies. I do not wish to “draw off disciples for myself”, I just want to be free to worship God from the heart, without all the “traditions of men” WT imposes. Mentally diseased? Actually, yes – I little bit! But not from my learning about 587 BCE or Beth Sarim. I actually almost lost my mind from the societal isolation and cognitive dissonance which comes from being a JW! Since my awakening, I have fully regained my mental strength and stability.

    For those still inside and awakening, I tell you, You are NOT alone. I personally know of MANY in my surrounding congregations who have either already awakened and left or, like myself, are stuck inside due to the devastating threat of shunning by family members. There is just too much information available on the Internet for any thinking person to ignore.

    Again to the contributors of this video – Bravo…

    • October 6, 2015 at 3:59 am
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      @Not Alone- You are not alone. The fear of shunning is the only factor keeping most JW’s from leaving. The GB knows this. They also know that the internet is their greatest enemy, because you can’t lie to the internet.

      FEAR is what prevents many JW’s from going on the internet and discovering the TRUTH about “the truth!”

      I know for myself, the fear of finding out that my religion is a cult filled with lies kept me for several years from actually doing research. At first, when I discovered, for example, that the 607/1914 teaching is WRONG, I DISMISSED it as LIES. I remember shutting off my monitor and turning away in disbelief. I even said, “Satan is really the ruler of this world and is blinding people…”

      Then, something made me go back and verify the 607/1914 data. I researched every text referring to the destruction of Jerusalem and then USING THE WATCHTOWER’S OWN LITERATURE, I came to the conclusion, Jerusalem was NOT destroyed in 607! IT COULD NOT BE! And if that DATE is INCORRECT, the entire raison d’etre of this organization is DEAD. There was no significance of 1918, 1919 and definitely not 1914! Which means, everything is wrong.

      Now don’t get me wrong- if you are a religious person in need of a spiritual crutch to numb your mind from the harsh realities of existence and death, some of the WT’s “interpretations” of the scriptures are better than most religions. That said, shouldn’t “God’s only organization” be right about everything? 1914 is a biggie…

      • October 6, 2015 at 7:44 am
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        “……if you are a religious person in need of a spiritual crutch to numb your mind from the harsh realities of existence and death, some of the WT’s “interpretations” of the scriptures are better than most religion’s”.
        This was what trapped me in the JW religion for years – the prospect of an earthly paradise sounded very nice.
        The best way to overcome this trap, is to surround yourself with a good support system of friends and relatives who genuinely care about you and you them, so that the camaraderie will help to soften the blows from the harsh realities of this life.

    • October 6, 2015 at 4:11 am
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      One more thing I forgot to mention was since you are in this position, I am sure you still have contacts and addresses. Use that to help these lost souls! Send them anonymous emails with links to this video or other videos that you found useful. Text message them with questions about 607 or this new “overlapping generations” bullshit. Post videos on Facebook. Don’t bombard them with things about the WT’s financial standings, why the sudden reduction in growth, child abuse scandals and other things like that. They will dismiss all of that as “errors made by men…”

      The whole premise of this organization is about 1914 and the “Faithful Slave Class.” If that can be shown to be absolutely UNTRUE, there is no reason to stay in this cult. It is that simple. Once they discover that, the rest of the filth and lies will fall into place and they will see this cult for what it is! As the WT always likes to say, “the light is getting brighter in these last days!” What they forgot to mention was the light is getting brighter on their bullshit and this cult is in its LAST DAYS!

      • October 7, 2015 at 4:11 pm
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        Your comment is spot on!! Everything falls on the fact that Jehovah is using the faithful slave and 1914 was the year the kingdom was established. Once someone can see that this is not true, the house of cards come toppling down.

  • October 5, 2015 at 11:34 pm
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    Here’s something to think about, for any still-believing or even half-believing JWs perusing this site (and I AM trying to help, not just telling you this to be a d*ck): When your elders walk into the KH, they don’t see you and think, “Oh, look at all my lovely sheep.” They’re thinking, “OK, let me get my game face on, so all these suckers can look up to me and hang off every word I say.”
    Believe it or don’t… ;)

    • October 5, 2015 at 11:55 pm
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      Sorry, maybe the term “suckers” was a little harsh, but you get what I’m driving at.

  • October 5, 2015 at 11:49 pm
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    Would it not be awesome and amazing if all 8 million Jehovah’s Witnesses became Apostates??? We could throw a party bigger than Dec. 31, 1999!!! For non-ex-JWs as well. The whole world would be invited for a month-long bash! Everything could shut down for 30 days of revelling. Like a Mega Woodstock, with dancing and singing and drinking and smoking things. It could go down in history as the greatest party ever. And perhaps the first time an entire religion was voluntarily abolished by its own members!
    I know, it’s Pie in the Sky.
    But who knows?…

    • October 6, 2015 at 2:37 am
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      Excellent… if there was alike button I would have clicked on it for your party comment … Cheers

    • October 6, 2015 at 5:51 am
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      @Awake .. Brilliant Idea & the MAIN THEME SONG of this Mega Woodstock could be say ‘HAPPY’ by PHARRELL WILLIAMS??? I am sure other suggestions will be forthcoming at what songs could be Sung!!

  • October 6, 2015 at 12:15 am
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    @Llyold Evans, I may not know how to pronounce your name as Jehovah’s Witnesses do not know how the name “JEHOVAH” or “YAHWEH” was pronounced by Moses…! They use that “holy name” to shake the world and I use yours to say “you are a hero…”!

    I compare you with many strong people who have saved lives of many… like… “a physician named John Snow [who] had suggested that cholera was caused, not by contaminated air, but by contaminated water. (g 10/10 p. 20; http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/s/r1/lp-e?q=%22John+Snow%22&p=par )!!

    “Contaminated spiritual food and water” JWs consume harm families more than cholera does today. Keep up good work and legacy.

    • October 6, 2015 at 5:54 am
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      @Hakizamana .. NICE COMPARISON … I would Mark you ‘GOOD’ on your Slip but the School will soon be in the ABYSS.

    • October 6, 2015 at 6:27 am
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      Although I share appreciation for Lloyd’s work, he is not in the same league as John Snow!

      Peace be with you, Excelsior!

    • October 6, 2015 at 7:34 am
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      John Snow also let us know winter was coming, but sadly his watch has ended.

      • October 6, 2015 at 8:33 am
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        Whose time will end next season?

  • October 6, 2015 at 1:40 am
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    Awake,

    That would be good. We could have our own 3 day convention.

    Pickled Brain can organise the drama entitled “The Rise & Fall of the 7 evil, deluded, midget, dwarf, pigmy, vipers!”. Did I miss any? It would have to be “m” rated though due the violent ending of heads being blown off.

    My preferred ending would be like a Greek tragedy where the story ends with that sweet, powdered drink.

    • October 6, 2015 at 5:47 am
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      @Grace.. How About a ….’ WARWICK TRAGEDY’!!!
      Where The 7 MENTAL MIDGETS /VIPERS/PYGMIES DIE an AGONISING SLOW DEATH from MERCURY POISONING by CONTAMINATED DRINKING WATER in the Groundwater Supplies at their NEW HQ!!! Then the 7 Bodies could be CREMATED & the MERCURY ASHES could be RECYCLED in Thermometers !! …I Knew I WASTED my TALENTS by Pioneering !! I should have been a WARWICK Director & Playwright producing Warwick Tragedies!!

    • October 6, 2015 at 7:32 am
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      That’s no drama – it’s a pantomime!

  • October 6, 2015 at 2:54 am
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    Love this video: excellent video – well done

  • October 6, 2015 at 3:20 am
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    Lloyd and everyone at JWSurvey, I want to thank you all again, from the bottom of my heart, for what you do is truly “life saving work.” You are making history!

  • October 6, 2015 at 5:49 am
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    H”* Business tablets exist for all the years traditionally attributed to the Neo-Babylonian kings. When the years that these kings ruled are totaled and a calculation is made back from the last Neo-Babylonian king, Nabonidus, the date reached for the destruction of Jerusalem is 587 B.C.E. However, this method of dating works only if each king followed the other in the same year, without any breaks in between.” Watchtower 2011 Nov 1 p.24 footnote.
    WT, admits that documentary evidence regarding reigns of Babylonian
    kings indicates a 587 BCE date for Jerusalem’s destruction.
    Then proceeds to fill in the missing 20 years with guesswork,
    conjecturing that there were breaks between reigns. And this
    without the slightest scrap of evidence in support.

    Hardly surprising then that the “Alleged Apostate” ranks are growing
    rapidly.

    • October 6, 2015 at 6:09 am
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      @Ted .. SO SO RIGHT in your ANALYSIS !! That’s what Carl Olaf Jonson found out & was ostracised for ! Then Grant Suiter on the GB in about 1979 came up with the idea of ‘SPUTNIK’ put into Space in 1957 being Part of the SIGNS in the Heaven might be start of Christs Second Presence to try & Move the ‘GENERATION ‘ interpretation !! But due to the Majority Voting on the GB at the time which Ray Franz highlighted in ‘Crisis of Conscience ‘ it was Voted Against!! Doesn’t this show us all that the GB are NO WAY directed by HOLY SPIRIT , but React when TIME is Against the GB Interpretations of Scripture & they PANIC & try & come up with something EQUALLY RIDICULOUS like …. OVERLAPPING GENERATION ???

    • October 6, 2015 at 6:57 am
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      @Ted- Thanks for pointing that out. The evidence proving beyond a doubt that 607 is INCORRECT is absolutely OVERWHELMING. The astronomical data and records ALONE prove with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that Jerusalem fell in 587. Worse still, the WT in its own tangled web of lies and bull—- literature proves that 607 is wrong.

      On that basis alone, the whole WT organization is a fraud. No need to dig up the dirty secrets and scandals and failed prophecy, failed dates, misquotes, etc. Without 607, there is no 1914. Without 1914, everything turns out to be a lie. And indeed, it is.

      As incredible as it may be for JW’s to accept that their entire belief structure is a fraud, it doesn’t change the facts.

      Thank “YHWH” for the internet!

    • October 7, 2015 at 3:48 am
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      Ted to add to your comment, on page 23 of that article, at the bottom of the page there is a footnote that reads: Note: None of the secular experts quoted in this article hold that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C.E.

      How many of us looked at that footnote? I didn’t notice it and I doubt very much if hardly anybody else noticed it either and I think the reason was because it wasn’t a study article where people actually “study” the article.

      Most of us would have read that article thinking that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607, believing that our “mother” wouldn’t lie to us. We would have trusted our “mother”. If we read that article, we would not have believed that our “mother” was playing us all for fools.

      We always trust our mothers and we were led to believe that when we became part of the “family” of Jehovah’s Witnesses that they would not take advantage of us. That is what we were led to believe when got involved with the Organization, our “mother” but we were taken in by an Organization that will say and do anything to maintain it’s facade of “caring” people, who would be there for us, through thick and thin but we were taken in by lies and we all know who their father is, don’t we?

      • October 8, 2015 at 4:56 am
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        It’s pretty obvious.

  • October 6, 2015 at 6:02 am
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    Beautiful, moving video; inspirational stuff!

    Many thanks to all so bravely involved. I will do my best to share the film, which I suspect will turn out to be seminal in the history of spotlighting the WT Soc’s abuses of its followers.

    WT Soc monitors of this site, be sure the sins of your man-made organisation will find you out. It might be well for you to start preparing redress guidelines for the cruelty that has been/still is being engendered by WT Soc policies.

  • October 6, 2015 at 6:41 am
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    after leaving jehova’s organization what hope do you have now? How will you follow the order of Jesus in Matt 28: 19,20? how will follow the order heb 10: 24,25?

    • October 6, 2015 at 7:01 am
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      Don’t need to – stop following orders, when I realised loving people was better.

    • October 6, 2015 at 7:06 am
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      @Baby– And THERE is the retort that millions of JW’s use to justify their ignorance. I know, because I was there defending everything we were taught. To answer your question, I know it may be hard for you to grasp this simple concept that will shatter everything you were brainwashed to believe but the answer is quite simple. Are you ready?

      “Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

      • October 9, 2015 at 8:36 am
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        Bravo, here-here. Lovely point, and so true.

        I would have said the same as baby 10 years ago when I was blind. But now I see.
        Hope baby comes to see TTaTT soon

    • October 6, 2015 at 7:21 am
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      please find in the Bible a single verse where it says “Jehovah’s organisation”. It is a term invented by a modern corporation. All the New Testaments accounts of people becoming Christians were accepting the authority God and his Son in their lives. Today the governing body of the jw.org have replaced the role of Jesus and you need to recognise them to be saved. What a crazy teaching!
      They teach a different gospel and one day they’ll realise the fraud they are. Joining a denomination does not make God happy.

      • October 6, 2015 at 7:37 am
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        Notice how the GB love to use certain words like “the TRUTH,” or “JEHOVAH’S organization,” or “JEHOVAH’S flock” etc and etc to describe their cult- as if, yes, JEHOVAH MUST BE DIRECTING THIS ONLY ORGANIZATION CALLED THE TRUTH!

        These snakes must have PhD’s in psychology. Every tactic they use PROVES that this is a cult. From shunning to the clever words they use to manipulate us! It makes me so angry.

        • October 6, 2015 at 7:43 am
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          Saying spring water does not make it water really spring water. You need to test it.

          The jw.org have missed the target by a century and counting. They failed the test!

          Obviously they use big words such ‘only true Christians’, the truth, Jehovah’s organisation.

          The words have an effect to the mind of people and blur the thinking ability. But if you really start to test their claims, IT DOESN’T MAKE SENSE!

          Hoe can you be a truth lover and teach the overlapping generation doctrine? it is just desperation to cover years of failures.

          • October 7, 2015 at 9:18 am
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            You can’t prouv it

          • October 8, 2015 at 4:59 am
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            Such a deception calling it ‘the truth’. If you repeat that often enough anyone will believe it. That is why it is so hard to get out of your head when you are trying to leave.

    • October 6, 2015 at 7:38 am
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      For example:
      Acts 2:41
      Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

      Did they join your organisation?
      Were those baptised in the first century not true Christians?
      JW org is less the a century old.

      Obviously denominations tells their story/sell their product but we are not babies we have brains to understand.

    • October 6, 2015 at 7:41 am
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      By sharing Gods word with people I meet, anywhere and everywhere. There are also sites for ex Jw’s who still believe in Gods word, without the jw.org magic filter. There we can meet and encourage each other to keep doing what is right in Gods, not the seven watchers eyes. We haven’t seen what becomes of the watchtower after these truths about their “truth” becomes common knowledge to all. Maybe some of us decide to revert to the old bible student model without the sky is falling agenda. Stay tuned.

    • October 6, 2015 at 7:42 am
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      @Baby … Ahhh the BIBLE SCHOLAR RETURNS … WELCOME !!! FRED FRANZ …RE-INCARNATED as???…… @ Baby…..!! WELL …, FRED??? OHh DEAD ONE , How about Explaining JESUS Words at Mark Ch.9 v38-40 & then Show us Why Jesus DIDN’T Require his Disciples to Follow only ONE ORGANISATION??? .. ALL of US who comment on this site are Fulfilling Hebrews Ch.10v24,25 .
      Secondly Math.28v19,20 to Go & Make Disciples of CHRIST !!!!..NOT AN ORGANISATION ..

    • October 6, 2015 at 11:24 am
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      @ Baby

      Baby
      When are YOU going to follow the bible?
      Deuteronomy 18:20-22 says that false prophets are to be put to death. The Governing Body have predicted the end of the world 9 times according to the History Channel. When are you going to go kill them as the bible orders you to? When are you going to fly out to NY to execute justice for dragging Gods name through the mud with all the false prophesy? Chop chop! Fly out to New York and put those false prophets to death otherwise you don’t really follow the bible … you follow a bunch of liars in New York.

      • October 7, 2015 at 9:26 am
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        if they are false let God destroy them himself. Why do you wont to do God Job?

        The first century christians were also not exact somtimes in thieir inspectations

        • October 7, 2015 at 12:35 pm
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          If you justify JW mistakes why other religious groups don’t have the luxury to be inexact? Are you sure other Christians have all bad motives?

          You are talking about the first century Christians, but let’s see what the Bible say. For example

          Acts 1:6,7
          6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”

          7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.

          Verse 6 shows that the Christians had expectations. What verse 7 shows? Does it require special skills to understand it?

          The governing body think that they know more than God. They ignore God authority by inventing interpretations that are punctually wrong. The number of invented days shows that they totally ignore the Bible.

          JWs are used to dates and they have to produce always one.

          Also please think what being inexact could mean to people, God’s creatures. Please think, if the they are wrong with the blood policy it means that children have died for NOTHING.

          If they are wrong with the inhuman shunning policy it means that families have been destroyed for no reason.

          I think Jesus words are exact, “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.”

          Imagine if you are shunned because you are a JW. If your parent shun you because of your personal choice. Would you like it?

          But as a Christian you practice this atrocious practice. Shame on you!

          Psalm 146:3 Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save.

          Do you consider the Bible true? Why you put your total trust in men?
          You will harvest what men can give, NOTHING!

        • October 8, 2015 at 2:13 pm
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          @Baby .. Who was your theocratic School Overseer? You haven’t learnt to spell properly .. GO & GET an EDUCATION !!

    • October 7, 2015 at 4:02 am
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      @Baby, that scripture at Hebrews is telling people that they can’t be restricted from gathering together. The Watchtower likes to say it’s a “command” to go to the meetings, but it is a command in not restricting people from gathering together.

      You should read the Bible without Watchtower publications telling you what they think it means, and what it actually says instead.

      When it comes to preaching the message throughout the world, many churches are doing that.

      You need to prove to us that God actually chose the Watchtower as his one and only spokesman with proof. Just having good intentions, doesn’t make it the one and only channel of communication between God and men. The Bible is only the channel of communication between men and God (if you believe it) and not an organization of self-proclaimed, spirit directed men who appointed themselves to that position.

      Prove to us that God chose the Watchtower organization in 1919 and I will “return to Jehovah”. If you can’t do that, then JW’s are no different than any other religion that the Bible says is worthy of destruction for being a prostitute. They prostituted themselves when they joined the United Nations in 1992. If you are brave, look it up.

      The Bible tells people to get out of the “unclean” thing and if a religion teaches lies, then it’s unclean and a person with a working conscience, needs to get out of it and that is what we have done.

  • October 6, 2015 at 6:57 am
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    I still attend some meetings because my mother lives with me and is still very much involved. I use my ipad and when I get bored I surf the net and read real truths about the jw’s…..however in the last month i noticed that our wifi is now restricted to jw.org only! oh well I guess I’ll read downloaded stuff :)

    • October 6, 2015 at 7:21 am
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      @Mimilove. ***WARNING: I’ll give you some insider info. The brothers in my hall regularly go through the web traffic in the router logs. I know they do it at Bethel too. It’s quite easy to see what device was surfing what IP address. They’ve been doing it to hunt down moles, apostates and dissidents they don’t like. So you need to be careful. One method is by using a free proxy. There are dozens of free proxies available if you search. That’s the easiest method for basic computer users. When I’m at the meeting reading that “bad apostate” material, I use an IPv6 subnet to go through the router’s back door. It’s a bit more complicated so I won’t go into details but suffice it to say, it will be impossible for them to found out what sites I am surfing.

      I want to say that I am not an IT tech. I just like to keep on top of the technology. But as I advised in my first post a few days ago, the best way to stay in stealth mode is to use your own mobile data plan. You can turn your phone into a Hotspot very VERY easily and connect your tablet so you can surf all you want without fear of discovery or blockage! :) I’d venture to say that eventually all halls with internet access will restrict access to ONLY JW.org for obvious reasons. Control, control control!

      • October 6, 2015 at 9:05 am
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        thanks!

  • October 6, 2015 at 7:04 am
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    I keep wondering why they have dropped the Theocratic Ministry School name, and while I am uncertain of the exact format, it seems to me that children are excluded from the presentations and women are just collateral damage in that they get limited exposure for talks. In Australia if you run a “school” then those in charge have to get police background checks to work with children. If kids are excluded then might it be that elders need no longer submit themselves for police scrutiny. When this was first introduced the WT fought the new law tooth and nail. How dare the Govt think that they have some say in who might be eligible for positions in the KH. Since they couldn’t get out of it they have cooperated but with sullen resentment. I wonder if that will now change since the new arrangement “seems” to omit working with children?? Without that check the Congregation has no idea who might be in charge since the WT seems to have an asymmetrical view of who qualifies for positions. I have known of one instance where a molester who had abused his daughter(s), but had a builders ticket that was wanted by Bethel for a construction project. He was not d/f’d and kept in good standing in his hall to enable this use of his ticket. The R and F, never knew. So much corruption, the end always justified the means.

    • October 6, 2015 at 7:52 am
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      @Enuffsenuff.. YOU HAVE HIT the PROVERBIAL NAIL on the HEAD!!! EXACTLY … The WORD… ‘SCHOOL’ had to be REMOVED otherwise because of Child Protection certain Laws by Governments would have to be implemented so … BINGO!!… We all have a NEWLY WORDED MIDWEEK MEETING !! The Watchtower LAWYERS are Covering the GBs Back at every turn!!! It Happened back in Rutherfords Time & still happening !!’ Trouble is the ordinary publishers aren’t aware of the SHENNANIGANS behind Closed Doors of Watchtower Lawyers Offices & then it is packaged up as NEW LIGHT or JEHOVAHS CHARIOT Moving Forward !!!

      • October 6, 2015 at 9:17 am
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        As the saying goes: “you never see smoke without fire”!
        SMOKE: new name for theocratic ministry school.
        FIRE: “In Australia if you run a ‘school’ then those in charge have to get police background checks to work with children. If kids are excluded then might it be that elders need no longer to submit themselves for police scrutiny.”

        The new name for the theocratic ministry school is more than likely just a legal workaround/ legal gymnastics at its best – how clever!

        • October 6, 2015 at 2:34 pm
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          @Dee . Your Comments are SO INSIGHTFUL that the GB are Now TERRIFIED to have the Word … SCHOOL in any of their Meeting Names as then it IMPLIES Teaching Children which LEGALLY REQUIRES CRIMINAL RECORD CHECKS on ELDERS which could be Embarrassing if An Elder was found to Hsve a Dodgy Past!!

          • October 7, 2015 at 12:28 am
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            If this is true then it really really really should be exposed fast….angry ruthlee

    • October 6, 2015 at 7:58 am
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      It’s all in the shepherding the flock elder handbook. Those with privileges and their family get free passes in order to not discourage others when a mighty one falls. The rank and file can eat it. I don’t have any children, but grew up in the Borg and really find it hard to see how any child will be invested in meeting now. An hour and forty five minute meeting on a school night in order to listen to men who can barely understand what they are talking about try to errouniously decipher the Borgs twisting of scripture. Maybe every meeting will have a Caleb mascot segment. Where the kids will be brainwashed into kneeling before the great and powerful seven. Maybe parents will continue to push their children to leave school behind in order to become bethelites and special pioneers, just so they can get the boot a couple of decades in. Finding themselves middle aged with no job, home or any real job prospects with their potato education.

  • October 6, 2015 at 7:11 am
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    Hi PB, & Actigall. Ur
    I agree entirely, there’s a complete absence of superhuman
    guidance from beginning to end. Just a load of cockeyed
    ideas thrown together, that requires more craziness ( new
    light ) to keep them afloat.

    I think the whole thing probably was borne of the Spirit,
    but the kind that a certain Judge was quite partial to.

    • October 6, 2015 at 7:31 am
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      LOL so true. My father has a library of WTBS literature that would rival the society’s own. I remember doing research years back before my awakening, reading what they wrote in the 1920’s and 1930’s and literally laughing out loud. I asked my father about these things and his answer was always the same, “you can see how the light has GOTTEN brighter over the years. That proves that Jehovah and Jesus are directing this organization!” And of course, I would just kind of brush it off and return to my COMFORTABLE cognitive dissonance of lollipops and cotton candy of the new system when “the new scrolls will be opened…” Holy s— man! It’s insanity!

      • October 6, 2015 at 7:44 am
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        I have the original book of Russels sermons. You should have seen the elders faces when they visited me one time and saw it…. ‘where did you get this?’ This has a kingdom hall stamp in it’. Yeah well, I was given it by the elders when I made a request for it from the estate of a dead sisters estate. She was a special pioneer in her time and had been given it when it was deemed old and tatty for the shelves… I wonder what gems it contains. I have never read it as it is very delicate. Maybe I should.

        • October 6, 2015 at 8:00 am
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          Yes you should! I do believe that CTR was sincere and he had good intentions. That said, let us not forget the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

      • October 6, 2015 at 8:19 am
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        @Actigall Ur …, I have Read most of Rutherfords Old Books like Government ,Enemies,etc & I have Read ‘ The Finished Mystery ‘ by Russell alias Clayton Woodworth … AS YOU SAY !! …,,, UTTER INSANITY …. The RAMBLINGS of a LUNATIC !!!! & CHRIST was Meant to have Chosen these NUTTERS as they were Providing ‘FOOD’ at the PROPER TIME???? …. HELPpppp!!!

        • October 6, 2015 at 11:46 am
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          @Pickled brain- Yes, I know! Some of the things he wrote about were clearly from a man suffering from delusional paranoia and/or the best damn LSD this side of the 1970’s!

          Seriously though, looking back, HOW can ANYONE believe that this man was DIRECTED BY HOLY SPIRIT? As Ted said, he was directed by SPIRIT(UOUS)! LOL

  • October 6, 2015 at 7:18 am
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    Excellent video! The origin of the 1914 failed prophecy and its reworking over the years is a must for the next edition of this video as I think this doctrine more than anything else will show people who the governing body really are – a set of delusional liars who just keep perpetuating a lie to save face so that they won’t lose membership and contributions because it’s all about the money.
    Also, on another point – the child sexual molestation cases have been kept under lock and key by the JWs and not reported to the authorities over the years as the governing body wants its members to think that these bad things only happen in false religion or among worldly people not in Jehovah’s organization as Jehovah’s organization is so superior to other religions and the world – we are constantly told that we should have nothing to do with other religions and the world so the governing body had to find a way to keep the child molestation cases quiet by its two witnesses rule if they wanted the rank and file to keep believing that these things only occur in false religion and the world, not in Jehovah’s organization so that they can continue perpetuating their cultic social isolation control by telling Jehovah’s Witnesses that they should have nothing to do with anyone else as everyone else is bad and evil and only Jehovah’s Witnesses are good.

    • October 6, 2015 at 8:07 am
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      @Dee Griffits Share this everywhere you can. It has helped me completely awaken one loved one. I just casually shared it as ” look at this video someone sent me, I thought it was one of ours at first. Can you believe what’s in here. I already did the fact checking and its all true!” Sometimes you have to ride the dragon and take risk for family. This time it paid off, hopefully now I have help freeing the rest.
      I know I keep posting it, but we keep getting new people to the site who need an organized quick way to explain what’s behind the curtain
      http://youtu.be/u5JnngqQYvc

  • October 6, 2015 at 8:07 am
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    I no longer believe in the bible or any religious text for that matter but I do know the bible inside and out. So it is now my understanding that when the bible speaks about “Armageddon” it is referring to the destruction of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. Yes, MISTER Morris and Crew- You should be very fearful of what is about to come. The end is indeed near! The END OF YOUR DECEIT!

    • October 6, 2015 at 8:11 am
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      Ur, that is this organizations greatest crime of all. Completely sucking any and all faith in the Bible out of people who joined to get closer to the God of the Bible. I respect your choice, hopefully they haven’t stolen prayer from you as well.

      • October 6, 2015 at 11:38 am
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        @Robert- I wouldn’t say that. If I were born a Catholic, I would have reached the same conclusion as I have here- ALL religion is a racket and a snare. I don’t believe that Jesus was the son of God. Again, I am a man of reason and logic. So I did some research.

        Did you ever wonder why his biographies were written 30-60 years after he died? Did you ever wonder why not a single person who witnessed his “miracles” (and there were supposedly THOUSANDS of witnesses) bothered to write any of that down or leave SOME recognition of his miracles? Did you ever wonder why there were other men, both real and mythical, before him with nearly identical stories?

        Did you ever hear of Horus?

        Well, Horus was born to a virgin mother named Isis who gave birth to him in the NILE river. His birth was announced by the star Sirius and three wise men came to visit him at birth. He is baptized in water at the age of 30 by a holy man named Anup the Baptizer, who is later BEHEADED. Oh, did I mention he walked on WATER, RAISED THE DEAD, was crucified and then resurrected after THREE DAYS?

        Guess when this story was written? 2400 BCE!

        How about Buddha? Everyone knows about him. Right? Guess what? Buddha also performed miracles, WALKED ON WATER, RAISED THE DEAD, fed 500 people from a SINGLE BASKET OF BREAD and was later transfigured on a “mount” or hill. Hmmmm. When was this? 560 BCE.

        And roughly the same story for- Osiris, Krishna, Odysseus, Romulus and so on.

        • October 6, 2015 at 12:20 pm
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          @Actigall Ur, anyone with retional thinking will not only questions Jesus’ being from the Son of God, but the entire Bible as Book of God.

          (2 Samuel 21:1) . . .Now there was a famine in the days of David for three consecutive years, so David consulted Jehovah, and Jehovah said: “There is bloodguilt on Saul and on his house, because he put the Gibʹe·on·ites to death.. . .

          How can a person with rational thinking make a relationship between death of the Gibʹe·on·ites and famine.

          Was there a famine following this TERRIBLE CARNAGE? (Numbers 31:15-17) . . .Have you preserved all the females alive? 16 Look! They are the ones who by Baʹlaam’s word induced the Israelites to commit unfaithfulness toward Jehovah over the affair of Peʹor, so that the scourge came upon the assembly of Jehovah. 17 Now you should kill every male among the children and kill every woman who has had sexual relations with a man.

          • October 6, 2015 at 12:59 pm
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            That, raises some interesting questions, like did they recruit 100 gynecologists to make that decision. …it seems always to come down to sex, power,and money, and what people will do to protect there own rights at the expense of yours.

          • October 6, 2015 at 1:22 pm
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            @Hakizimana- Believe me, I was questioning the stories in the bible since I was 8. When I asked my parents how and why a loving God would ask his own people supposedly to go and kill men, women, children AND ANIMALS in his name, I always got the same absurd answer- “Jehovah’s JUSTICE AND WISDOM IS ABOVE OURS SO WE SHOULD NEVER QUESTION IT.”

            Yeah, ok.

          • October 6, 2015 at 1:40 pm
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            We can’t allow ourselves to be carried away by others brain farts, we might as well kneel before the seven again. It’s funny how you get to the truth of the matter if you just stick to the source and not philosophical rantings about the source. That goes for any religion.

        • October 6, 2015 at 1:22 pm
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          As far as Horus goes from sources online— -I’ve heard repeated here several times that Horus, an Egyptian god, is carbon copy of Jesus. The obvious implication by those that have made this statement is that Jesus is a copycat version of an earlier Egyptian deity.

          When I first heard that Horus was the inspiration for Jesus several years ago, I didn’t give it much credence because I couldn’t establish any source material for the claims. this theory originated with Gerald Massey, an English poet, born 1828, died 1927. He published primarily poems, but had an interest in Egypt. He parlayed that interest in Egypt into several books and lectures in which he set forth the proposition that Horus was in essence the first Jesus, and Jesus was a cheap imitation. The primary basis for his writing is the Egyptian Book of the Dead. This is available on-line and you can easily look it up to read it yourself. Be forewarned that forced reading of this would be an extremely efficient form of torture.

          It should be noted that Massey’s actual proposition was that Jesus was a copycat from more than just Horus. According to Massey, Jesus was a compilation of an innumerable number of Egyptian deities. There were over 2,000 deities who had every human and godlike characteristic one can think of, excepting Superman’s power to stop a speeding bullet.
          Claim #1-Horus and Jesus are born from a virgin.

          Horus’s mother is Isis. Isis was married to Osiris. We do not know for what length of time, but presumably the marriage was consummated. Whether it was or wasn’t doesn’t matter though. After Osiris is killed, Isis puts him back together again (he was hacked into 14 pieces) except for his penis which was tossed in a river or a lake. Iris fashions a substitute penis for him, humps him and here comes Horus. There is nothing virginal about that.

          Claim #2-Both Horus and Jesus were born to a Mary and Joseph. (Seb)

          As noted Isis is Horus’s mother’s name not Mary. In addition, Seb is not Horus’s father, Osiris is. Seb is Osiris’s father. Further, Seb is a distinct name from Joseph. Putting them side by side does not make them synonyms, and that appears to be what was done here.

          Claim #3-Both were born of royal descent.

          This is accurate.

          Claim #4-Both births were announced by angels and witnessed by shepherds.

          I can find nothing that mentions that the birth of Horus was announced by an angel or witnessed by shepherds. I have found that Horus was born in a swamp, which is a pretty unlikely place for shepherds. In addition Acharya mentions that Horus was born in a cave. Massey makes no mention of this, although he does represent that Mithra was born in a cave.

          Claim #5-Both were heralded by stars and angels.

          There is no star that heralded Horus’s birth nor is there any angel announcing it. Archarya in a footnote in The Origins of Christianity indicates that that there are three stars named the three kings in Orion and then relates this to the birth of Jesus. When we look to the stories regarding Horus, we find no star or angel announcing his birth. To the extent that Acharya S relies upon Massey and Massey relies upon what is depicted in the panels at Luxor see (from an atheist) further regarding virgin birth and pronouncement by angels http://www.frontline-apologetics.com/carrier_luxor_inscription.htm

          Claim #6-Both had later visitors (Horus-3 deities and Jesus-3 wisemen.)

          There is no indication that there ever were 3 wisemen. The bible never mentions the number of wisemen, nor is there any document that reflects 3 deities at the birth of Horus. See the website referenced in Claim #5.

          Claim #7-Both had murder plots against them.

          There is mention that Seth did want to kill Horus, and Herod wanted to kill Jesus. so this is accurate.

          Claim#8-Both came of age at 12, were baptized and their baptizers were executed.

          There is no indication that Horus was preaching in a temple when he was 12. In fact, Massey indicates that Hours the child was depicted as a “weakling.” That doesn’t jive with story of Jesus preaching in the temple. Again this appears to have been a confabulation from Acharya and repeated by others.

          Horus was never baptized in any of the Horus stories. In addition, Acharya mentions that John the Baptist is actually Anup the Baptizer. This individual is never mentioned anywhere in any Horus account. There is not even a footnote in Archaya’s on-line work The Origins of Christianity to support this. There is nothing.

          Claim #9-Both had 12 disciples.

          According to the Horus accounts, Horus had four semi-gods that were followers. There is some indication of 16 human followers and an unknown number of blacksmiths that went into battle with him. Horus did not have 12 disciples. Jesus reportedly did. Acharya failed to give a footnote to support this.

          Massey points to a mural in the Book of Hades in which there are twelve reapers. Horus is not present in this scene. For Massey to make this connection he goes to a different scene within the same mural. In this scene there is a picture of a god whose name is the Master of Joy. Horus is never depicted although in other murals the artists do depict Horus. Had the artists ascribed 12 reapers in any relation to Horus all they had to do was put Horus at the scene. They did not.

          Claim #10-Both walked on water.

          Horus didn’t, or at least there is no record that I can find that he did. Massey does not maintain that Hours did. Massey uses wild conjecture to connect the story of fish man, Oannes, not Horus, to Jesus. Oannes came out of the sea during the day, and went back into the sea at night. Massey makes the two analogous because by his calculations, Jesus walked on water during the day.

          As to Acharya, she as usual provides nothing to substantiate this.

          Claim #11-Both performed miracles.

          This is true although the miracles were different in scope and nature.

          Claim #12 Both exorcised demons and raised Lazarus.

          The actual claim is that Horus raised Osiris from the dead and that the name Osiris morphed to Lazarus. It doesn’t matter because Horus did not bring Osiris back to life. There is no mention of this in any document regarding the story. Horus did avenge Osiris’s death, but that did not raise Osiris from the dead.

          Claim #13-Both held a Sermon on the Mount; both were transfigured on a mountain, died by crucifixion along with two thieves and were buried in tombs where they paid a quick visit to Hell and then rose from the dead after 3 days time, both resurrections were witness by women, and both will supposedly reign for 1,000 years in the Millennium.

          These are the most damning claims if they were proven true in my opinion. Yet, I can locate none of this. No sermon, no transfiguration, certainly no crucifixion w/ two thieves, no trip to hell and no resurrection. There was an incident in which Horus was torn to pieces and Iris requested the crocodile god to fish him out of the water he was tossed into, which was done, but that’s it. I am at a loss to refute this because I can not find anything to support it.

          Massey does compares a story about the Autumn Equinox related to Osiris, not Horus, as the symbolic crucifixion. There is no indication that Horus is involved in any way. There is no mention by Massey of any Sermon on the Mount. No mention or any actual crucifixion, no two thieves, no burial in a tomb. Massey does not maintain that anything of the sort occurred with Horus.

          In short, of the claims outlined in this entry, I find the comparison between Horus and Jesus to consist of the following: they were of royal descent, they allegedly worked miracles and there were murder plots against them.

          • October 6, 2015 at 1:30 pm
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            Nice reply. .Robert 67..

          • October 6, 2015 at 1:36 pm
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            Regarding Budda

            Between the years 563 to 483 BC, there was a man in India named Siddhārtha Gautama better known as the Buddha. He was a man who taught principles for peace, harmony as well as love. He was raised in luxury by his father Shuddodana who was determined to not allow his son to see anything unpleasant. This was to keep the fact that there was ugliness and suffering in the world away from him.

            One day when Siddhārtha was twenty-nine, he asked his father if he could visit a neighboring city. His father decided to allow him, but also attempted to have the entire city cleaned before his son should arrive. This tactic worked at first, but Siddhārtha strayed away from the rout that his father was counting on him taking and then he saw four different men on which the “four signs” were based: One was old, one was ill, one was dead and the fourth was a beggar. And frm this he came to the realization that even he would grow old and die and he began wondering what was the point of life if one was going to die. From then on he renounced his life of ease to begin a life of begging on the streets.

            — By the age of 35, he had supposedly gained great insight of the causes of pain and suffering and how to eliminate it and later he ban to teach. Among his teachings, he taught the “four noble truths” which claim that 1) all life is suffering, 2) that desire causes suffering, 3) one can overcome suffering, and 4) that is would be overcome by following the Eight Fold Path.
            Several in the “Jesus Myth” crowd have attempted to tie the Buddha to Jesus Christ by mentioning several apparent similarities between the two. — D.M. Murdock, otherwise known as Acharya S, has been one of many of the mythers that do this. Following, her claims are placed in bold while my responses are in regular font.

            Buddha was born of the virgin Maya, who was considered the “Queen of Heaven.”

            It is certainly true that the birth of Siddhārtha Gautama was miraculous in itself, however the claim that his mother Maya was a virgin is unsubstantiated and isn’t found in Buddhist writings. The fact is that Buddhist tradition points out that Maya and her husband King Suddhodhana were already married for twenty years before their son was born which argues all out against Queen Maya’s virginity. Most certainly, their marraige would have been consumated long before Siddhārtha Gautama’s birth. (Text link)

            If Ms. Murdock’s mention of Maya being the “Queen of Heaven” is an attempt to link her to the virgin Mary, then it should also be mentioned that the idea of such a title for Mary is purely Roman Catholic and has no Biblical basis. Protestant Christianity, which is more based on the Bible than Catholicism does not recognize Mary in any such way.

            He was of royal descent.

            This is true for both Jesus and Buddha, however it is also incidental with absolutely no relevance at all. Arguing that this is a relevant parallel is like saying that since Queen Elizabeth I of England and Nero, the Roman Emperor were both of royal descent that they are therefore connected. Such reasoning just doesn’t work.

            He crushed a serpent’s head.

            I cannot find any evidence that this was said about Buddha. Even if it was, it certainly is not said about Jesus in any of the four Gospels or (as far as I know) in the New Testament at all. — The crushing of the serpent’s head (which is considered a Messianic prophesy) actually comes from Genesis 3: 15 which was written is at least 1397 BC over 800 before the Buddha was born. This pretty much means that even if such a thing was ever said about Buddha the Hebrew Bible had the saying many centuries before Buddhism ever had existed and therefore Jesus being a Jew would not have had to imitate Buddhism for this one detail.

            The fact of the matter is that “crushing a serpent’s head” is actually out of the Buddha’s character because he had resolved not to harm a single creature. As a matter of fact there is a story of him protecting a serpent. (The Story of Buddha, page 7)

            Sakyamuni Buddha had 12 disciples.

            This is most definitely not true. — At first the Buddha, after his renunciation, had five companions (The Story of Buddha, Pages 40 & 41). Later on, not counting the Buddha’s immediate family or royal patrons, he had a total of eleven male disciples, nine female disciples, and five lay disciples making a total of twenty-five, more than double. (Click here)

            In her footnotes Ms. Murdock cites a Travel Guide page as proof of “the motif of Buddha and the 12.” The page she refers to mentions a large statue of Buddha accompanied by twelve smaller Buddhas. — The problem here is that this imagery comes from the Chinese Yuan Dynasty which is dated from the 13th and 14th centuries AD. So even if this was a reflection of Jesus’ twelve disciples, it’s from a period way too late to have affected Christianity. Buddhist tradition shows, however, that the Buddha had more than twelve followers.

            Besides, her source suggests that this particular scene is the “Nirvana.” If this interpretation is correct then I must point out that Buddhist tradition says that the Buddha at the time was surrounded by 500 arachants who committed to memory his teachings. (The Story of Buddha, Page 93) If this is the case then the only reason that the Buddhist relief she refers to shows twelve men is because it is much easier than depicting 500.

            He performed miracles and wonders, healed the sick, fed 500 men from a “small basket of cakes,” and walked on water.

            It is true that the Buddha is associated with miracles. But this hardly proves anything because it goes without saying that miracle-workers are an expectation in any religion and therefore this alone does not imply any imitation on Jesus’ part.

            Even though it is true that the Buddha did care for the sick, he used a much different method than Jesus who healed with a touch and even over long distances. Buddha would treat his patients with hot water and would bathe them. There were various patients that Buddha treated that didn’t regain their health and even died, which is not the case with Jesus. (Text Link)

            I can’t find any Buddhist or Encyclopedic sources that show that Buddha fed 500 people with a “small basket of cakes.” Besides, it should be mentioned that Jesus didn’t use cakes, but rather five loaves of bread and two fish. — And as for the last claim of walking on water, this one is true. But it is also true that this parallel has its differences because the Buddha is said to have accomplished this by “levitating over a stream” to convert a non-believer to Buddhism. Jesus didn’t levitate, he just walked. And he didn’t do it to convert anyone. (Text Link)

            He abolished idolatry, was a “sower of the word,” and preached “the establishment of a kingdom of righteousness.”

            It would be a true statement to say that Buddha “asked his followers not to create images of him when he died,” though this doesn’t seem to be an actual command. But this really is not an issue because Buddhism is a “Non-Theistic” religion. (Click here) Buddhist do bow to Buddha which, at least from a Christian perspective, is defined as Idolatry. — It should be mentioned that Jesus did not “abolish Idolatry,” nor did he need to because it was already legally prohibited by Jewish law. (Exodus 20: 4)

            As for the last two claims that Buddha was a “sower of the word” and preached “the establishment of the kingdom of righteousness” — I can find absolutely no reference to them.

            He taught chastity, temperance, tolerance, compassion, love, and the equality of all.

            Okay, and so did Gandhi, Seneca and many others. These are very common ideas, way too common to just assume that Jesus copied them from Buddha. Though these ideas are held in common between both Christianity and Buddhism, the truth is that there are differences between the two. The philosophical foundations of the two religions are actually quite different. (Text Link)

            He was transfigured on a mount.

            This is not true. He was transformed into the Buddha while he sat under a tree in a region in Northern India known as Bodhgaya. (Text Link) — I have been informed in an E-Mail correspondance by Eyal Aviv of George Washington University that this area is not even a mountain region.

            Sakya Buddha was crucified in a sin-atonement, suffered for three days in hell, and was resurrected.

            Again, this is completely false. Buddha did not die of crucifixion or even as a “sin-atonement.” He became ill and died at age eighty after eating a large meal of “soft pork” which, according to a diagnosis of his sickness, was too large for his digestive system. (Click here) Also, he was not raised from the dead, rather his body was cremated after death. (Source)

            As for suffering in hell for three days in hell, this is not true of either Buddha or Jesus.

            He ascended to Nirvana or “heaven.”

            Here, Ms. Murdock is showing blatant ignorance of the concept of “Nirvana.” — Nirvana is not a place, and it certainly isn’t “heaven.” It is to live on earth in a state of enlightenment which ends the cursed cycle of reincarnation for a Buddhist. (Click here)

            Buddha was considered the “Good Shepherd”, the “Carpenter”, the “Infinite and Everlasting.”

            There is no evidence that Buddha was ever called the “good Shepherd or even the “Carpenter.” — It is true that one sect of Buddhism (Mahayana) contains the idea of an “everlasting Buddha.” But this is virtually a meaningless parallel between Jesus and Buddha considering the number of debunked parallel claims between the two made by Ms. Murdock.

            He was called the “Savior of the World” and the “Light of the World.”

            For once, there is truth to this. After Siddhārtha was born, a sage names Asita told his parents that if he renounced a life of luxury at the court he would indeed become the “savior of the world.” (Text Link) I cannot find a mention of Buddha being “the light of the world.” But even if it exists, it would not prove anyone did any copying.

            After making these debunked claims, Ms. Murdock cites Dr. Christian Lindtner to further prove her point that Jesus was copied from Buddhism. — Even though Dr. Lindtner is recognized in the field, he is also a noted “Jesus-Myther.” Many of the claims Ms. Murdock quotes him as saying have already been debunked such as the alleged “crucifixion” of Buddha and the “twelve disciples,” so I’m not going into too much detail. The fact that he is willing to make such easily refuted claims shows blatant dishonesty on his part.

            Interestingly, he lists the “last supper” as a parallel between Jesus and Buddha. Though it is true that they had a “last supper,” the details of the two are completely different. Buddha simply ate his meal, got sick and died. — In Jesus’ case, the event was used to declare that he would be betrayed, killed and resurrected. This is way too different to assume that one account influenced the other.

            He then repeats the claim that Buddha was resurrected but he leaves out the fact that if this were true then that would mean he never attained “Nirvana,” the point of which was to prevent resurrection or reincarnation. But no dedicated Buddhist would accept this because this would mean that Buddha was not actually a Buddha. — Considering that he is recognized in this field and that his claims are so easily disproved, I unfortunately have to question his honesty.

            As I was researching for this blog post, I e-mailed Ms. Murdock’s claims of Jesus-Buddha parallels to several professors of Buddhism and I received a response from Eyal Aviv, Assistant Professor of the Department of Religion at George Washington University who said,

            Generally, the claims made in the website you read are historically so problematic that I can simply say that they are not true [ . . . ] I would recommend you to be cautious with Web sources and rely on authoritative scholars or religious writers from within the respective traditions you are interested in.

            The truth is that even though there is what could be construed as evidence of Buddhist influence on Christianity, it is basically inconclusive. And just because there are certain similarities, this does not indicate beyond doubt that the similarities between them are a result of Buddhist influence on Christianity. (Text Link)

            — So in conclusion, the claims that are made by Ms. Murdock (a.k.a., Acharya S) about parallels between Jesus and Buddha are mostly untrue. The claims that are true are so few in number and therefore can be assumed to be coincidence. Not to mention, in her list of parallels, she jumps to certain conclusions that lead her to misunderstand basic teachings of Buddhism. Considering the fact that Ms. Murdock claims to be an expert in comparative religion, this is pretty odd.

          • October 6, 2015 at 1:45 pm
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            Say Robert, I appreciate your thoughtful answers. Maybe I could get your take on this..at times there seems to be a huge difference between Jesus teachings and that of Moses and even Neihmiah.
            I am reminded of where Jesus said “on account of your hard heartedness , Moses made a concession,” do you think that is a issue of o.t. individuals going beyond what is written?

          • October 6, 2015 at 2:30 pm
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            @Robert- Thanks for your input. However, I did not say Jesus was a carbon copy of Horus, only that the similarities can not be overlooked and searching for similarities will lead you to many dead ends. You need to search for genuine Egyptology on Horus alone.

            Further, I never implied the exact details were identical! The basics ARE the same and too similar to ignore.

            See: https://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/jksadegh/A%20Good%20Atheist%20Secularist%20Skeptical%20Book%20Collection/Parallels_between_Jesus_and_Horus_an_Egyptian_God.pdf

            (Yes, Massey is quoted in this publication)

            My point by choosing Horus and Buddha (and others) that PREDATED JESUS were to show that, in my humble opinion, Jesus was nothing more than an amalgam of various deities and god’s in ancient literature. The rabbit hole goes very deep on this one but to quote from another poster, “there’s no evidence that Jesus ever existed, no sculptures or paintings of Jesus. There are no artifacts or writings by Jesus or his contemporaries. We have Julius Caesar’s own writings, who lived 100 yrs. before the alleged life of Jesus. We also have actual letters that were written to Caesar and letters that Caesar wrote.

            Contemporary historians wrote about the life of Caesar. However, mankind’s Savior Jesus never wrote a word. Jesus never wrote anyone a letter and we do not have any original documents written by his disciples or followers. There are no references to a historical Jesus by any known contemporary historian. No literate person in the time period, which Jesus supposedly lived in, mentioned him in any known writing.

            All of the documents about the alleged Jesus came WELL AFTER HIS DEATH. Biblical Scholars know this and do not claim it is historical evidence. They instead claim that what’s important is the story. A story that is a lie (pawned of as the truth) can’t be very important.

            The Jews at Qumran were waiting on a future Jewish king to appear and deliver them. The Mashiah, according to Jewish belief, was not a God that would deliver his people by clearing their way to heaven. The messiah was to be an empowered King who would destroy the enemies of the Jews and regain their Holy Land. The enemies were the Romans or (future Christians). Essentially everything Christians have been told about Christianity is false. Their beliefs are based on a misinterpretation of the word Mashiah ‘Messiah’ a (Mashiah that never came) and layers of various pagan beliefs of the Roman culture…

            The Lord’s Prayer and the Lord’s Supper can be traced to the Qumrans, also going back at least one century before the alleged Jesus’ virgin birth. The Sermon on the Mount is recorded in the Gospel of Matthew and Luke about fifty years after Jesus allegedly gave the sermon. The Gospels of Mark and John say nothing about The Sermon on the Mount and neither do Paul, Peter or John because as the Dead Sea Scrolls reveal, the Sermon on the Mount was recorded in the Book of Enoch, at least 100 years before the supposed virgin birth of Jesus.

            Confucius 6th century BC Chinese sage and founder of Confucianism from the Analects “love thy neighbor as thyself. Do nothing to thy neighbor, which thou wouldst not have him do to thee hereafter”. The verses and saying attributed to Jesus existed long before he was invented.

            The Gospels are the sole source of information about a historical Jesus. Everything that we know about Jesus and Christianity depends on that source. Unknown authors wrote the Gospels the names are only titles. Nobody knows when they were written or who wrote them.*** (see: FOOTNOTE)

            Eusebius openly advocated the use of fraud and deception in furthering the interests of the Church. The first mention of Jesus by Josephus came from Eusebius (none of the earlier church fathers mention Josephus’ Jesus). Scholars have determined that Eusebius not Josephus was responsible for those writings. Eusebius wrote about “how it may be lawful and fitting to use falsehood as a medicine, and for the benefit of those who want to be deceived.”

            Any claim that there had to have been a historical Jesus fails because a study of the true circumstances of Christianity’s beginnings (although this is difficult considering how much of the past is gone (books and whole libraries were burned and destroyed) and this is precisely the pattern expected if the Jesus religion was an offshoot from other existing religious myths.

            Celsus pointed out the same flaws in the cult and (they burnt all his books) so with the silence of the critics, the re-writing of its past, any claim that there had to have been a historical Jesus fails.”

            ***FOOTNOTE: The WT is really trying to paint a picture of the Gospel writers as men they know everything about when indeed they have very little to go on. Notice in the newest “bible handbook” they have chosen Mathew as their first victim. They have filled in the blanks of his life. Sad. Very sad.

            If Jesus really existed as the “Greatest Man Who Ever Lived,” do you think we would need to even have this discussion 2000 years after his DEATH AND DISAPPEARANCE?

            I don’t think so.

          • October 6, 2015 at 2:47 pm
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            Phew

          • October 6, 2015 at 4:32 pm
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            Robert67 Why don’t you just write a book on it?

          • October 6, 2015 at 8:40 pm
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            The cruelest character in the Bible is also presented as the most loving character in the Bible– one of many insurmountable problems.

            Robert67: 3565 words
            Actigall Ur: 1121 words
            JB Reezner: 22 words

            Robert67 wins!

          • October 7, 2015 at 12:37 am
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            maybe the stories of horus derived from an ancient skewed text of prophecy. All muddled with half truths and fabrications. It may have got lost in the mists of time, a bit likr the wtower rl

          • October 7, 2015 at 4:42 am
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            Josephus the Jewish historian, the rabbinical scribes of the time, Tacitus the Roman official and thousands of personal letters found circling around the time all make reference to not only Jesus, but the Christ and his life. They say that even if every last copy of the Greek scriptures dissapeared off the face of the Earth, you would still be able to reconstruct them just using the personal letters. You forget how illegal it was to follow Christ first amongst Jews and later in the Roman Empire. These letters were their secret way of communicating despite not being able to meet openly. The poor that followed Jesus obviously would be illiterate and the son if God would not spend his precious 3 year ministry rewriting the Hebrew Scriptures or giving away the divine plan. You missed the whole “no sign but that of Jonah” explanation he gave. Those who follow him will have to do it by faith. There is way too much archaeological evidence to backup scripture and deny these people existed. The survival story of the Bible alone is a miracle. The planets three greatest religions all claim Abraham as their salvations starting point. It’s early here and I can go on and on, but the evidence in support of what scripture says happened is there. The rest for us living after the savior, were not going to get the firework miracles. We aren’t going to get God curing us or saving us. We get Biblical truth about ourselves and the human condition with a running theme that if we’re ok human beings, maybe there’s a little something for us and our children after our short lives burn out.

          • October 7, 2015 at 6:54 am
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            @Robert67 . You have done your Research Well , Robert! Enjoyed your in depth analysis . It’s a Pity the 7 Midgets of Brooklyn aren’t as thorough as you !!
            I think many Ex-JWs Feel SO LET DOWN by the EVER CHANGING INTERPRETATIONS of The Bible by the 7 PYGMIES that when they do Leave the Organistion they Become SO DISILLUSIONED with RELIGION that Many Feel IT IS a SNARE & A RACKET!!! Which is Understandable after SACRIFICING SO MUCH to the 7 MENTAL GYMNASTS who Have FLEECED them for their TIME, ENERGY & MONEY !!

          • October 7, 2015 at 10:56 am
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            I love ya, PB! But the people here who have removed the Bible from its sacred pedestal in their lives have not all simply had a knee-jerk reaction to being burned by the Org.

            For many of us, years of thoughtful, honest, open-minded research and a careful reevaluation of cherished, long-held beliefs has resulted in a more evidence-based belief system, which precludes continued acceptance of the validity of the Bible.

            I said that in a SUPER NICE way, lol. I’m a lover, not a fighter…

          • October 9, 2015 at 1:44 am
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            The similarities accross the pagan faiths is almost universal.
            This is why the Romans saw other faiths as other forms of their own, it took several hundred years of Emperor supervised interferance to create the RC church. The lack of true comparisons shows over years of church auguement.

        • October 6, 2015 at 7:36 pm
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          Sounds to me like the story of Jesus is nothing but a load of Horus-sh*t.
          Sorry…sorry…sorry…;)

  • October 6, 2015 at 2:43 pm
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    Actigall Ur,

    I have to agree with you on this topic. I tried to refute these things myself & it didn’t take long for the connections to fall into place.

    It started with my niece asking me the question as to whether Zeitgeist had any truth to it. So I set out to prove it wrong. I did find holes in the documentary but my personal research found too many similarities with many of the deities.

  • October 6, 2015 at 5:00 pm
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    A most excellent professionally made video clip. JWSurvey/Cedars and all the participants in this clip should be commended for a very LOUD impact statement. I hope it helps current JWs put their toe in the water and research TTATT.

  • October 6, 2015 at 5:17 pm
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    This site means the world to me. Lloyd, I cannot begin to express my gratitude. It is so important that these horrible, fear inspiring lies are exposed! I’m struggling with my anger for having held to the beliefs for sooooo long. Thank you to you and all of the others who work along with you, for all that you do for the ex JW community. As you English say, ‘Cheers!’

    • October 6, 2015 at 11:28 pm
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      @Faded .. REALLY REALLY NICE APPRECIATIVE WORDS & SENTIMENTS!! .. I am from the UK &’ CHEERS to You!! …, AMERICAN ‘CHEERS’ was a Great Comedy Series!! So thank you my American friend for that !

  • October 7, 2015 at 12:50 am
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    Hi all this is my MEGALOMANAIC moment. When you all anoint ME ME as the girl head honcho ive got a few changes.Seeing as the org is smelly rich i will dispose of it accordingly haha. All 8m can have 1m£ each,then they can all go pioneering.All df’d(they have records) can have 1m£each but no obligation to go pioneering.All peodophiles (those on their list) to donate their 1m£ to any charity of choice except WBTS.NO money to the lawyers they have a stash squirrelled away somewhere. And any one who has a reasonable claim for damages 1975 etc loss of education blah , petrol money, can all claim. I would break this cult with generosity.So when they meet their maker they may have a fighting chance.And we can all get on with our lives . NO squabbling ,no hard feelings,and no regrets. What do you think folks is that reasonable for a closet megalomaniac. I like that word today. ruthlee/ruthless

    • October 7, 2015 at 3:05 am
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      @Ruth Lee . You have made many Good Suggestions,Ruth . But The BEST THING I LIKE about your Comment is you SPELT.., MEGLOMANIAC with CAPITAL LETTERS!!! As you all know by NOW!’!!! … I am a BIG USER of CAPITALS ?!!

      • October 7, 2015 at 4:07 am
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        @Ruth lee … SORRY to break it to you , But you SPELT … MEGLOMANIAC wrong … Sorry for being PEDANTIC but the ‘i’ goes before the ‘a’ …. !!!

        • October 7, 2015 at 6:58 am
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          Ah, but Ruthless only spelled it wrong once. YOU spelled it wrong TWICE, HAHAA! Get your act together, PB!!

          • October 7, 2015 at 7:26 am
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            @JB … Anyway LETTY has Told me I am GOING to HEAVEN & .. TONY said I can Spell MeGALoMIA ANYWAY I WANT !!!

          • October 7, 2015 at 10:33 am
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            Haha, okay I will let you off the hook then, PB. I mean, if ANYBODY has the copyright on the word MEGALOMANIAC, it’s Tony Tightass.

            In fact, not only can the 7 WITCHES OF WARWICK SPELL it any way they want, they can even CHANGE the everlovin’ DEFINITION of it if they want! They have that power…

  • October 7, 2015 at 4:37 am
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    Hi PB what you have to remember is that i’m clever but not educated because I followed the advice to not improve my life and wasted my opportunity to go to Oxford. Idimmed dumbed my life down to amoeba level daft eh and i don’t know where spell checker is on the computer. As for grammar I know iv’e annoyed folks with my quaint way of writing but glad you liked my nonsense for the day its as nonsensical as any thing else i heard at the c ass this weekend gone. NOTE to SELF MUST use CAPITALS more haha ruthlee

    • October 7, 2015 at 5:23 am
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      @Ruth lee . You have a point ,Ruth …. Let’s BLAME the GB for the POOR EDUCATION they Get because of the STUPID ADVICE to PIONEER or GO to BETHEL once we Reach 16 or so !!! Ruth I have PHONED … STEVEY !!… It’s Alright ME & LETTY are on First Name Terms so I am not being too familiar & STEVE Told me because your Spelling & Grammar has SUFFERED because of the GB STUPID Educational Policies … STEVEY is going to AWARD You £10 MILLION from the EXTRA DONATIONS the GB have Received from CHILDRENs ICE CREAM MONEY!! … I Bet your SOooo GLAD , ME & STEVEY are MATES!!!

      • October 7, 2015 at 6:22 am
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        @Ruth lee . The CHEQUE will be in the POST… STEVEY has just sent it UPSTAIRS ? For FREDDY FRANZ to Sign!!!
        ALL You Lovely YANKS on this site .. PLEASE NOTE the CORRECT SPELLING for ‘CHEQUE’!!!!

        • October 7, 2015 at 7:19 am
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          hooray hooray oh happy HAPPY day!!! I’m in raptures.tee hee rl

      • October 7, 2015 at 7:47 am
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        Q 2222222.4 Do u proms nt to yus spl cheque wen tippin on the ipad that u must now buy so dat you can reed all the socciety litriture. CPTALS CN B USD IN APRPRAITE PLCES four inapropriate fings two.

        • October 7, 2015 at 8:10 am
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          @ Tara .., I MUST SAY …, your SPELLING & GRAMMAR is IMPROVING !!! … Just out of Curiosity ??? Is your Temporary??! Theocractic School Overseer .. David SPLANE by any chance ??? Tara , you seem to be OVERLAPPING your Vowels with your Consonants ;Also your Verbs with your Nouns . !!!

          • October 7, 2015 at 8:13 am
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            @Tara . Please STILL ‘W’ on it ???. SPLANEY tells me That means Work on it ?? …

          • October 7, 2015 at 8:35 am
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            ‘GAWN! I is just a simple girl I am. I know nothin ’bout all these big worlds. Brought up by ‘Enry Iggins I was.

        • October 7, 2015 at 8:40 am
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          @Tara … Enry iggins??? ..What did you say ‘My Fair Lady??’

          • October 7, 2015 at 4:19 pm
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            The rain, in Spain, stays mainly on the plain…. because if it hit Warwick, T3 would be twiddling his nob again!

  • October 7, 2015 at 5:42 am
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    I have some exciting, but heart breaking, local news that many of you will be interested to hear about. I’ll try to keep it brief. Also, I have to change a few details to keep this confidential.

    A young brother from a nearby hall that I am friends with texted me last night that he may be removed as an ——— and that he wanted me to know before the reasons why. Although we have had conversations in the past discussing our doubts, I never told him about my apostasy. In fact, in the last conversation we had I told him to stick around for as long as possible because “where else shall we go.” Shocking words, coming from me – I know. The reason I left it at that was because I must be very cautious as to what I say and honestly I can not trust anyone, even so called “friends.”

    Now to the point: he told me his OWN F’ing FATHER (a self-righteous, arrogant son of B!) accused him of “corrupt apostate thinking” when he approached him about one of the things we talked about. I know after our conversation, he was withdrawn and just a different person. He started to go to my meeting instead of his for a while since he said he had changed his work schedule. I’m not sure how to approach this as that turned out to be a lie but I won’t hold it against him.

    I know when I discovered the truth about this cult, I felt like my whole world just collapsed. Suddenly, everything I put so much time and effort into turned out to be a lie! Anyways you all know the feeling, so I have deep sympathy for him, especially since he does not know yet that I am an apostate. After all, what is HIS lie compared to the lie the WT continues to feed?!

    Anyways, for the sake of saying too much, the book “Crisis of Conscience” may have saved him. Asking questions and bringing irrefutable evidence against this cult’s teachings is NOT ALLOWED. I suggest everyone reads that book. You can even find it in PDF on the net but believe me, this is a book you will want to cherish.

    I still have not told him who I really am but I encouraged him that no matter what happens (including DF’ing if that happens) I will always be his friend and I WILL NOT SHUN HIM. I made that clear. I told him if he ever becomes depressed to please seek help immediately. I don’t think he is the suicidal type but knowing his father, he will kick him out of the house and on the street and HE WILL shun him. His mother might be a little more reasonable but the influence of that man is overwhelming. We shall see.

    We’re supposed to hang out this weekend so I will be able to see what is really going on as you can’t derive “the deep thoughts of man” (LOL) from texts. I’m not doubting his situation, and I don’t want to sound like a paranoid conspiracy theorist but I’m still going to be cautious about what I say. For now at least. Meanwhile, if all goes well, it seems my “planting of seeds of truth” (LOL) has helped another lost soul.

    I would not have been able to do this if I were like one of these brave souls in the video.

    • October 7, 2015 at 7:54 am
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      It’s at times like this that I want to go get all these ones and, dare I say it… gather them together like a hen with her chicks…. the rug gets pulled, the walls come tumbling down and there seems no place or person to turn to. I hope he is ok. Its going to be hard for you too because no doubt you will feel some responsibility to this man. Is there any way you can scout out an emergency place for him to stay, just on the off chance he is kicked out?

      • October 7, 2015 at 9:04 am
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        @Tara- I do feel a certain responsibility towards him but I consider myself a surgeon, carefully performing a life saving operation and the patient was unwilling at first to take the hard medicine which will later save his life. He will thank me later for it. But to be fair, I believe he would have discovered the truth about this cult sooner or later. I might have saved him the best part of his life!

        He didn’t say that he was kicked out of his house just yet or in need of anything but I told him that I will be there for him if he needs ANYTHING at all.

        Like I said, I couldn’t sense any extreme sense of sadness through text messages alone but I can only imagine he must be hurt to have his own FATHER bring these accusations against him! At this point I don’t know all of the details since he was kind of vague (he was writing his girlfriend at the same time so…) I’ll see soon. I could TOTALLY see his father doing that to him though. His father is one of those do-no-wrong arrogant self-righteous holy rollers. He’d betray his own family for the sake of this cult. I’m sure of that. Ironically, and tragically at the same time, his father has stumbled so many people over the years it is not even funny. But of course, NOTHING ever happens to him because he is considered one of the holy pillars of faith in their congregation and holds a high position and various rolls (of domination, LOL). It’s a long story which I cannot mention in detail here (for obvious reasons) but be rest assured that this man is a man that Jesus would have cursed for being so evil. He is a modern day Pharisee and hypocrite. Thankfully his mother is one of the nicest people you could meet and is balanced. She probably kept things cool.

        Last message he wrote was about hanging out this weekend. I said yes.

    • October 7, 2015 at 8:01 am
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      Glad to hear he is awake and saddened that his outing will be so abrupt and not on his terms. Everyone needs to own a copy of crisis of consience. Downloading it as a pdf is great, but just looking at it in my book case next to all my WT literature helps me keep the right perspective when tempted to just cruise back into the Matrix. Send him our way if it comes to it and help him awaken gradually to keep dispair from kicking in. Life goes on and its a whole lot better without the Dogmatic chains around your neck. Remind him he’s reached his jubilee and should find joy in the adventure of life that awaits him. Remind him that the intense shock of being seperated from family eventually fades to a tolerable level. Have him watch Lloyd’s youtube channel to help with the nasty withdrawal symptoms. Good luck.

      • October 7, 2015 at 9:21 am
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        Yes, I know for myself, finding out that my whole support system was a lie was devastating. But I faced the facts and began a new life. He too will do the same.

        Crisis of Conscience was a book I heard rumors about when I was a Borg but never read because it was that “evil apostate material.” By the time I read that book I had already concluded this was an evil cult. That book merely solidified that vile fact. I too have a hard copy of it and recommend EVERY WITNESS READS IT ONCE. What do you have to lose? Your faith in a dangerous, lying cult?

        It will be interesting to see how his whole family reacts! Again, I don’t have all the details just yet, but if this leads to a DF’ing then yes, his father WILL kick him out and shun him. His mother will still have contact with him, as she is more balanced but this will lead to problems. I’m not saying they will get divorced over this but who knows?

        I’m hoping that he just gets privately reproved if anything at all. Then I will tell him to say to his father, “oh YES father, you WERE RIGHT” and just BS him do death. The key is to remain inside so you don’t lose your connections (and family). I’m going to make him my protege and train him to become a double agent. It’s quite exciting. I’m going to analyze his mental disposition this weekend. If I feel he is agent material, then I will tell him, “My name is Bond. James Bond.” :)

    • October 7, 2015 at 9:24 am
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      Actigull UR, I agree with Tara and Robert. However ultimately it will be your friend’s decision whether to go cold turkey (DFd/DA) or to suck up for a few weeks and fade from the JW hallucinogenic ‘drug’. As far as the ‘where else do we go’ question, the answer is dependent on whether the question should be broken into 2 parts: (1) Can I cope with losing almost all my JW friends and family and (2) What will my belief system be post JW world?

      Only your friend can answer Q1, however Q2 is easier for him to answer by watching / reading happy ex JWs on various websites (such as Cedar’s above clip) that range from Atheists to Born again/evangelical.

      i personally believe in a Creator that caused or seeded life on Earth. My belief is a bit complicated and not for this thread. It gives me strength, however i do not believe there is one path/religion that is true. To use JW terminology, I am of the opinion ALL religion is Babylon the Great including the WTBTS. Although I am not a UU, this faith is probably the nearest to one an ex-JW can look into if they need ‘religion’. Personally I don’t.

      i wish you and your friend all the best. Tell him to hang on in there.

      • October 7, 2015 at 11:27 am
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        @JWChange- I quoted that clever phrase (“to whom shall we go”) the WT loves to use to claim that IT ALONE as the only way to God only to allay any possibility that I could be apostate after our discussion. As I said, I need to be very cautious.

        I couldn’t care less if tomorrow he still believed in Jehovah or Jesus or any other god. What matters is that he sees that the current religion he associates with is a CULT.

        Good for you. If you need a supernatural crutch to ease your internal conflicts or give you moral guidance, then more power to you. As for me, I am a man of logic and reasoning. I now believe, as I have held deeply for many years, that EVERYTHING that happens in the universe has a scientific explanation. There is no supernatural power directing things. IF there was, then I’d say this supernatural power is either dead or an evil piece of filth who I would never worship.

        I live by this motto: IF there exists a god or gods and they are good, they will not care which path I chose so long as I were good to my fellow man and lived a noble life. If there are gods and they are evil, I would rather die than worship them. If there are no gods, I still want to live a noble life so that those who know me will keep me alive in their memory as a good man.

        That is it.

  • October 7, 2015 at 8:44 am
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    Forgive me for going off topic but there was no where else to really mention this. Last night I was having a think – I do this occasionally. all this FDS stuff is really only mentioned once in the Bible isn’t it? Well, maybe Jesus was just telling us that ‘we’ are the FDS in our own households. My Mom and Dad – non witnesses btw, brought us up to have good morals etc etc. If Jesus came to our house back then I am sure he would have said ‘good job!’ Perhaps that is what he was getting at. We need to keep our own house clean to the best of our ability. If and when Jesus returns he can look at the family unit and say ‘hey, you guys really tried. well done.’ Instead of the GB trying to lord it over every family and screwing it up.

    • October 7, 2015 at 9:31 am
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      @Tara Your Guess at F& D Slave can’t be any worse than the 5 DIFFERENT CHANGES to the Interpretation the PYGMY MIDGETS in Brooklyn have come up with since 1874 First it wasn’t RUSSELL ; then in 1910 it was RUSSELL ; Then in the Late 1920s Rutherford decides it wasn’t Russell but ALL the 144,000 then BINGO in 2013 it is only the 7 MENTAL MIDGETS in BROOKLYN !!
      So Tara you are PROBABLY MORE RIGHT than the GB will ever be!!!

    • October 7, 2015 at 9:44 am
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      @Tara. That’s it right there. The word religion isn’t even in the Bible. Jesus tought “the way” to live life. He emphasized prayer, aquire knowledge of he and his father, but above all Love, Love, Love. Watchtower teaches hate, superiority complexes, judgement, policing, spying and saturated with lies. Jesus told the false teachers of the day that they originated from their father, the father of lies. The Watchtower Bible and Tract society has been exposed for lies after lies, deceit, manipulation, violations of human rights, mental and emotional torture all in Jesus name. “Get out from among them, unless you want to share in….

    • October 7, 2015 at 10:01 am
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      Interesting side note to this ….the term “little flock ” is only used 1x. Which raised question “who are you talking about ” which in answer j.c.talks about f.s., semi faithful s. And wicked s. But, he was talking about the apostles and disciples, back then…we just quietly changed that understanding with the “new” greatest man book released.last summer.

      • October 7, 2015 at 10:24 am
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        This is the.old slight of hand trick, but applied to the scriptures. .we use Matt 24:45, all eyes on that and.then with other hand cover over luke 12 as if its just a variation of “same” account..IT’S NOT.

        • October 7, 2015 at 10:50 am
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          Here’s another interesting fact..long long time ago when I was just wide eyed lad, I still could not figure out why John 10:16 at least didn’t have an application to the gentile christians…even though Paul makes same comments almost word for word in eph.2,
          Anyway …I Google searched that verse, low and behold we didn’t even get the top 3 listing for.it…nope, looks like old judge Rutherford borrowed from the Mormons.

        • October 7, 2015 at 10:54 am
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          @JwPow .. ABSOLUTELY CORRECT !! LUKE 12 V42-48 shows 4 Possible Outcomes to the Faithful Slave or Steward !! But the 7 GB Twisters of Scripture only Focus on Matthew 24 v45-47 . WHEN ANYONE COMPARES the TWO ILLUSTRATIONS then it becomes APPARENT that ALL 8 MILLION JWs have been CONNED …. BIG TIME!!!

    • October 7, 2015 at 10:21 am
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      You are right Tara. Jesus is telling believers to keep on the watch. He used the example of the slave because having a slave was common in the Roman world. But the GB of the JWs have misinterpreted the Bible and applied the verse to them.
      But Christians are free. They are free to test every teaching and refuse any wrong teaching. The GB has robbed people of this freedom. You are not allowed to test but bend to 7 men. Either you say yes to everything or your family relations are seriously at risk.
      This is clearly opposite to Jesus view.
      Honestly it is impossible that they do it innocently, this is well planned. It is an excuse to exercise total control.
      Their behaviour is another example how humans can be intelligent but also extremely stupid causing extreme pain to innocent people.
      I am totally shocked at how people that study the Bible can be so blind.
      After all Jesus was rejected by the “visible organisation” of his time, by people who wrote the scripture. So you even if you study the Bible 24 hours a day you ca still be blind.

      • October 7, 2015 at 11:50 pm
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        @ David .. I REALLY Like your POST ,Especially the comment about the Governing Body CANNOT be INNOCENT about what they are doing … IT IS ALL ABOUT CONTROL!!& Yes John 10v.16 is DEFINITELY about GENTILES becoming ONE FLOCK with JEWISH CHRISTIANS !! The GB Know this but Have TIED themselves into a Corner since RUTHERFORD came up with the IDEA in 1935 to tie it in with the GREAT CROWD being in An EARTHLY PARADISE instead of what RUSSELL taught about the Great Crowd being in heaven & IRONICALLY Rutherford taught the same CONCEPT of the GREAT CROWD being in HEAVEN until 1935 !! A Lot of this was probably CLAYTON WOODWORTHs Input as he was Editor of Awake formerly Golden Age & Consolation until 1947 & Woodworth was Co -Editor of The FINISHED MYSTERY’ the most UTTER INSANE WRITINGS Known to Mankind ??

    • October 7, 2015 at 11:50 am
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      @Tara- If I could give you a giant hug through this computer screen I would! You are probably the closest to the truth of the bible’s message than the GB will EVER be.

      Who says that THEY ALONE have the power to interpret what verse in the bible should be taken as literal and what verse is figurative? The GB says so! Why? Because without THEIR HOLY SPIRIT GUIDED INTERPRETATIONS we would never know that WE NEED THEM! LOL Without THEM, we would have never known that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BCE! ROTFLMAO! :) :) :)
      _______________________________

      BUT TARA REMEMBER THIS- ***********EVERY BIBLE SCHOLAR, RESEARCHER, HISTORIAN, MUSEUM CURATOR, ANTHROPOLOGIST, ANTIQUITIES DIRECTOR, JEWISH RABBI, ARCHAEOLOGIST and ENCYCLOPAEDIST THE WORLD OVER IS WRONG ABOUT THE DATE OF JERUSALEM’S DESTRUCTION– EXCEPT FOR THE 7 TALKING HEADS IN BROOKLYN!************

      Pretty AMAZING how BLESSED JEHOVAH’S PEOPLE ARE TO HAVE SUCH MEN ON EARTH! BUT ARE THEY REALLY MEN? NO! They are MORE than MEN! They are going to be IMMORTAL! THEY ARE ALMOST GOD LIKE! Just LOOK at their statuesque BODIES, their FLOWING hair and broad powerful NECKS. SO GODLIKE! There is ALMOST a LIGHT GLOWING around their heads like they ARE ANGELS! WHY YES TARA! These MEN are ANGELS!

      _______________________________________

      PHEW! Got carried away in the thought of their holiness!

      Circular reasoning is a specialty of the GB. Then again, circular reasoning is a specialty of every charlatan and fraud the earth over so it goes to show you…

      • October 7, 2015 at 4:29 pm
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        Wow I feel like I got a gold star at school – yay me lol. I am just sick of them interpreting every scripture with the ‘Why, that must be us! gee, aren’t we the important ones’.
        Jesus was humble, so shouldn’t we be? I’m just going to look after my own household and teach them morals and to be truthful and loving. I’ll start by feeding the cats. BTW I except hugs :)

      • October 8, 2015 at 12:05 am
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        @ Actigall Ur . I AM GLAD you got Carried Away.. You Made so many GOOD Points about the GB Manipulating the 607 B.C. Figure to suit THEIR AGENDA ! The Evidence is Highly Stacked against the GB , BUT the GB KNOW if they Admit 607 B.C is WRONG then 1919 date is WRONG !! Which means NO 1919 … Jesus couldn’t have chosen them as F&D Slave because they weren’t providing Food at Proper time !!
        IF 1914 & 1919 is WRONG then the START of LAST DAYS is WRONG & Also the Time when JESUS Invisible Presence in Kingdom Power !!
        But as Tome Goes on ,the NEXT 10,20,30 years the LIES & DECEIT & MANIPULATION will be SEEN by the Majority & the GB will be like SCIENTOLOGY with about 50,000 HARDCORE MENTALLY DAMAGED People Left in it ! I think all of us know one or two in each congregation who have this personality!
        By the way … I LIKE YOUR USE of CAPITALS!!!

  • October 7, 2015 at 10:06 am
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    In my opinion the witness religion are the pharisees but unfortunately because they feel that they are saved and above and beyond everyone else, they just don’t see it.

    Elitism, cliquiness, rule oriented, nepotism, and cover ups, are all words that could be used to describe what goes on in this religion. Everything that Jesus was against.

    • October 8, 2015 at 12:09 am
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      @Rob .. ALL VALID POINTS you have made!!
      The GB Are the MODERN DAY PHARISEES!
      Sums it up Really!

  • October 7, 2015 at 1:19 pm
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    Tara,
    Your delightfully uncomplicated explanation of the FDS parable,
    in my humble opinion, contains the essence of Jesus allegory.

    My dictionary describes a “Parable”. As a fictitious tale, to
    illustrate a moral or a spiritual principle.” No indication
    whatsoever of prophecy, which would prefigure actual events.

    Your simple description was the way we were taught it, as
    children in Sunday School. As a straightforward lesson to
    remain “Faithful” to Jesus and his teachings through-out life.

    But Jesus instructions, as well as the complete Bible have
    been hijacked by a group of egocentric men. Who have
    complicated and corrupted them, and brazenly given
    themselves the authority to change them at their whim.

    Best wishes, Ted.

    • October 7, 2015 at 4:36 pm
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      :) I remember the elders once saying that man tries to look at the Bible and over complicates it. That gods word is right there before us. The GB are no different. They have hidden the simplicity of it behind their doctrines. Which they are meant to be guardians of lol.

    • October 7, 2015 at 11:31 pm
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      @Ted … That’s Exactly the point .. The GB have CREATED a PROPHECY about the F&D Slave where there is none … It is just an ILLUSTRATION !
      Simple Really just like Jesus intended .

  • October 7, 2015 at 3:25 pm
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    I was having a cry last night to my husband because one of my closest friends who is much younger than me who would be my daughters age, texted me the other day. She’s the daughter of an Elder & became very close to us, she basically adopted us as aunt/uncle/big sis/big bro. We’ve watched her grow up & turn into a beautiful young lady/wife. She wrote that she is REALLY missing me to have someone to talk to & thinks about me all of the time. I know that she’s being genuine because we had many private talks about things (when we were still in), she found it hard to make genuine friends inside this awful cult.

    She spent many times at our place & we had lots of laughs together. I don’t know if we have been marked but I know that she has been told to stay away from us. She would often get down about stuff & needed someone that she could just be herself around. I know that she hasn’t found anyone like us since we left. I told her that I missed her too (but I was careful about how I worded things back). I told her that I have seen her around & always thought how much I love her & miss her in my life. She truly did fill a void when our daughter died.

    It just made me angry that I can’t have a friendship with her because of this damned cult. I live in hope that she may see why we left but being a born in, I don’t want to be the one to show her the way out, I suppose I don’t want to be responsible for the devastation that comes with waking up. I at least have a different frame of reference to her about life outside having been raised a Catholic. I still find it hard adapting to life outside yet I have a fantastic support system of people that I’ve opened up to that are really understanding. I don’t know how born-ins find their way in the world when that is all that they have ever known.

    Anyway, it got me thinking about the biggest mistake that those 7 family wrecking offspring of vipers have done & that is; YOU NEVER COME BETWEEN A MAN OR WOMAN & THEIR FAMILY!!! PERIOD!!! It’s like backing a tiger into a corner, their going to strike back. Now that there’s a growing number of those that have been alienated from their families, they have created a refugee camp. But that camp has grown mighty in numbers.

    I feel better now that I got that off my chest. At least this website is here for venting & coming together for therapy.

    • October 7, 2015 at 11:26 pm
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      @Grace.. You Make SO MANY BEAUTIFUL POINTS in Your Remarks .., I Would like to FRAME your POST & PUT it on EVERY KINGDOM HALL NOTICE BOARD in the WORLD . My Heart goes out to you & that young sister ! & you MAKE a REALLY GOOD POINT…. The 7 Contortionists of Brooklyn have made a BIG BIG ERROR in SEPARATING FAMILIES by SHUNNING .., as YOU EXCELLENTLY SAY… A ‘ REFUGEE CAMP of VERY ANGRY TIGERS???

    • October 8, 2015 at 8:37 am
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      What God has yoked together let NO man put apart. that means the offspring of that pairing too. ruthlee

      • October 8, 2015 at 12:58 pm
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        I’m breaking into song now,

        “I used to bite my tongue and hold my breath
        Scared to rock the boat and make a mess
        So I sat quietly, agreed politely
        I guess that I forgot I had a choice
        I let you push me past the breaking point
        I stood for nothing, so I fell for everything…

        I got the eye of the tiger, a fighter
        Dancing through the fire
        ‘Cause I am a champion,
        and you’re gonna hear me roar
        Louder, louder than a lion
        ‘Cause I am a champion, and you’re gonna hear me roar! oh oh oh oh oh oh oh.”

        • October 8, 2015 at 3:01 pm
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          Beautiful thoughts in your initial comment above, Grace! And now you’ve brought Katy Perry into the mix, which is something we can ALL agree on as being GREAT, lol. (For those that don’t love her, just go crawl back into the cold, dark spider hole you crept out of!)

          You mentioned having a good cry in your comment. When you’re ready for another one (a nice one) have a look at this: https://youtu.be/QX-xToQI34I –If you’re not crying by time marker 6:35, you will be within a few seconds after it.

          Relevance? After escaping the clutches of our little cult, we find that charities and seeking cures for things ailing the children of this world are actually WORTHWHILE endeavors, rather than mere acts of futility. And being able to actually CARE about the world around us? Well that’s something to dance about, like the beautiful apostates in the video :)

          Okay, maybe a clumsy point, but enjoy the video, lol.

          • October 8, 2015 at 4:07 pm
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            Thanks JB,

            The link you gave me won’t let me watch it here in Australia. Dam shame when that happens because I always feel like I miss something when others post things that I can’t watch.

            You’re all considered my friends here. I tell hubby that I have to check in with what you’re all saying. I read them out to him at brekky while we’re having a cuppa together having a chin wag & a giggle about the 7 crooked men.

          • October 8, 2015 at 5:31 pm
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            Drat! Yes, it’s a very sweet little video with an autistic girl singing with Katy Perry, with a little about the girl in the beginning. Maybe if you look up “Katy Perry, Jodi DiPiazza Sing at Night of Too Many Stars”, you will be able to find a version you can watch.

            And say “Hello” to hubby from JB! I can hear him now, “Who thaa HELL is that??” :)

    • October 9, 2015 at 2:20 am
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      You are so right Grace. When I and my husband and kids became Witnesses we had to cut ourselves off from our families that we had known all our lives. The Watchtower demanded that we stay separate from them as they had to be bad association. What a load of hogwash. My dear mother was as gentle as a lamb and I knew it deep down.

      How dare they have demanded we keep separate from our family. Goodness knows the hurt they suffered?The years of keeping away from them must have been terrible. It was terrible for us I know that. The wasted time not hanging out with them I hate to think about. When I finally came to my senses my mother had dementia. I could not get back what I lost.

      Those of us who came out of the ‘world’ suffered the whole time we were involved with the cult because we were missing our real flesh and blood families. That was not fun.

      So sorry Grace, to hear about your daughter. That must have been such a lot to bear.

  • October 7, 2015 at 3:43 pm
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    F&DS literal hmm??,
    Are there 5 virgins with large containers of flammable fuel and 10 naked flames sleeping somewhere in Brooklyn.
    Could explain the haste to move?
    There are seven of these cautionary pictures given.
    If one is prophetic, all 7 are.
    If one is a parable, all 7 are.
    If one is illustrative, all 7 are.

    • October 7, 2015 at 4:02 pm
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      Oh, shucks your taking all the fun outta it. I like to mix and match my reality with metaphoric hyperbole.
      Kinda like Rodgers rabbit meets celeb and sophia.

    • October 7, 2015 at 11:14 pm
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      @Reader.. EXCELLENT REASONING !! The 7 CONTORTIONISTS of BROOKLYN … DISTORT ??? Literal & Symbolic Terminology at the Flick of a Switch… Carrying on from your examples they do the same in the REVELATION with the 144,000 being LITERAL in the GB Eyes BUT the 12 TRIBES of Israel are NOT Literal according to the GB & being called VIRGINS is NOT LITERAL ,But according to the GB the number 144,000 is Literal … Then Again ??? NOW PONDERING on STEPHEN LETTS???? … He HAS GOT TO BE A VIRGIN ???

      • October 8, 2015 at 12:21 am
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        I know this is MILDLY ???OFF TOPIC? .. But WHO of the 7 Contortionists of Brooklyn GB are REALLY VIRGINS?? … I Really like MEDITATING on the Book of Revelation as it ENHANCES ??? My Spirituality & Draws me CLOSE to the F&D SLAVE !!
        I AM SURE ?? NONE of YOU that POST on this Site have ANY Thoughts on this DEEP TOPIC as I am on a MORE SPIRITUAL PLANE than you LOT?? … I SPEAK to FREDDY & NATHAN & JOSEPH & RUSS Daily ! …. It’s Alright I call Charles … Russ for short as we do talk on an hour to hour basis!!

        • October 8, 2015 at 6:44 am
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          Def. T3 stands to reason… tight pants n all that and as a really ‘orrible man once said ‘Says so in the Scriptures’. (name that book/series)

    • October 8, 2015 at 1:49 am
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      What you said is something I have always thought about myself. All must be literal or all must be parables. But when you are so brain washed as a Jdub you can not see 2 feet in front of you. I am so angry right now I am thinking very bad thoughts. Got to get ready for the gym now. Maybe that will help kool me down.

  • October 7, 2015 at 7:30 pm
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    Doing da rebel dance, oh yeah, oh yeah… not at meeting, oh yeah, oh yeah, don’t care, don’t care….. doing da rebel dance….

    Look at me, at home watching drivvel on Netflix and drinking wine BAHAHAHAHA.

    • October 9, 2015 at 5:31 am
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      @Tara … CHILL OUT GIRL!!… You Sound Like a DRUNKEN SHEEP… BAAAaaaa

  • October 8, 2015 at 2:38 am
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    Wow Lloyd this site just gets better and better! So much love and positive energy being generated, so many different posts to read. No wonder the Borg monitor this site, well get ready G B your Organisation is starting to implode! Many, many more honest hearted ones will be awakened and leave this cruel divisive cult. 7 men in designer suits squirming in their plush office chairs , trying to halt to the breech!!! Good luck with that, as the song says you’re ‘ Going Down ‘

    • October 8, 2015 at 6:25 am
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      @Innocent son- A little more than 2 years ago, shortly before my awakening as a brainwashed loyal Borg, a brother from a European country sent me an obscure email stating that there have been rumors circulating in some congregations that Jehovah’s organization was experiencing inner turmoil and dissidence and bleeding both money and members and that we should ignore these rumors as “apostate lies.” (Of course, bad news is always lies! LOL). I knew both him and his wife as missionaries and loyal Borgs…. oh I mean “servants” but I didn’t pay much attention to any of it as I was getting probably 25+ emails on a daily basis about this that and the other thing in the organization.

      Fast forward 2+ years. What exactly do we see occurring right now? Exactly what that email told us to ignore! I was going to mention a side story I just remembered but it’s too complicated to write the whole thing and I have to get back to work but in summary, that zealous missionary brother who wrote the email warning us not to believe “apostate lies” is no longer a JW and is now divorced! From his Facebook posts, I don’t think he is going to be coming back any time soon.

      Jeezus! How the tables turn!

  • October 8, 2015 at 4:06 am
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    When I was a regular pioneer…for many years…I used to reason with people on the ministry saying….’if you believe the bible then doesnt it make sense to look a your religion and test it against the things taught in the bible?’…it was usually very successfull….now its the last thing they want us every day r and f to do…. where on earth would you find the solid reasoning for the wierd and wonderful ‘overlapping generations’…where would be the sound reasoning for ‘shunning’ to the vicious extent it is used now..(it was much less constrictive in the 70s on this matter)…where is the real reasoning for not celebrating another year of life…and on and on and on and on….I got baptised at 13 and now Im 57 and still trapped…because of the blind obedience and Nazi like edicts of this cult…..Iv used my critical reasoning faculties now though…and gradually though an undercover fader I find myself getting less depressed and less scared….dont throw away your powers of reason…dont give anyone blind obedience…and never give up control of your mind…thank you all for this non judgmental forum of sound reasoning!

    • October 8, 2015 at 5:50 am
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      @Idontknowhatodo- Your words bring tears to my eyes. I was there too, I did full time — for – years. I know at the time, I really believed what I was teaching to others was THE TRUTH, despite having serious doubt about certain key doctrines such as Jerusalem’s destruction in 607 (the biggest lie), shunning, birthday celebrations, who the great crowd and other sheep are, Jesus’ parable of the faithful slave, and of course if we really are in the last days. But again, being a good LOYAL JW, I didn’t want to impose my questioning on others lest I stumble others and be branded “apostate!”

      By the way, you are not trapped. Remember that FEAR is the driving force of this cult. Do not fear anyone!

      May I ask you what your current standing in the congregation is?

      If you’re active and in good standing, use that to help others. Send anonymous emails to everyone you know questioning the 607 lie or the latest overlapping generations lie. Plant seeds of TRUTH in their minds so they can use their reasoning abilities to find out what they need to know! I have several other tactics which I am using and they seem to be working. Some are actually FUN and the responses are priceless! For obvious reasons, I can’t mention them here. Use your imagination! :)

      My awakening was fully actuated about 2 years ago. Since then I have been experiencing BS sensory overload! Once though, that initial step of searching for the TRUTH about “the truth” began, everything fell into place. I went though the various stages of shock – denial – sadness – emptiness – violent outrage – acceptance. However, I have made it my mission to have a helping hand in bringing down this cult and exposing it for what it is. And it is personal. Believe me. These #$!%@ pissed off the wrong dude.

      • October 8, 2015 at 6:47 am
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        Don’t upset the Wookie

      • October 8, 2015 at 4:54 pm
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        Gentile times,
        If they run to 1914 from a bce date, shouldn’t they be adjusted?
        Because Jesus did say he could request ‘legion’s of angels’, beside some other items which suggest there might be a pause in the gentile times?
        If so add 34 years to 1914.
        Curious eh….

    • October 8, 2015 at 5:10 pm
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      My kind thoughts are with you. I spent many years defending the Org. One of many final straws was going on a Bible Study with another sister. The student was incredibly intelligent but also looking for insight into the Bible. Her pointed questions and pure puzzlement over our “explanations” made me realize once and for all this is total nonsence.

  • October 8, 2015 at 9:04 am
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    With reguards to shunning had a great conversation with my hubby today slowly slowly releasee monkey. We were talking about greetings. We were down on the beach lots of different languages.We got onto the subject of the old german expression GrussGott (meaning hello and goodbye). In English we say Goodbye.(meaning God be with you). Maybe these old remnants of polite exchange that we stiil use were what was implied in the Bible.That is when you meet a known breaker of the rules just dont say a Godly greeting to him. Don’t bless him, rather treat him as one of the nations in that you would be polite and say a common greeting which we would say “Morning” and nod the head. Ireally do not think it meant annihilating the persons character,soul being, life by treating him as dead. It does not make sense,however if the sinner knew every time a brother saw him and did’t bless him it would be a reminder of his condition without continuosly reminding him of the sin. Just a thought. And i will repeat myself What God has yoked together let NO man put apart.This rotten religion has delighted in tearing apart the fabric of the family so now that it is in tatters there is no consolation Done good Done the Devil’s work for him. For shame for shame. ruthlee/ruthless

  • October 8, 2015 at 10:51 am
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    Shunning is a form of abuse and as indicated many times on this forum, violates an individual’s basic human rights.

    Shunning is cruel, reduces an individual to a subhuman level, and is simply not Christian.

    A truly spiritual person would not engage in or condone this type of behavior.

    As indicated in the Bible, religion may divide people, which in my opinion is ok because people can agree to disagree about any matter and can be divided on various issues and still continue to have a normal relationship, but this religion doesn’t just divide families, it destroys families. To me that is a red flag that tells me that the witness religion is not directed by God.

  • October 8, 2015 at 12:58 pm
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    “Shunning is cruel, reduces an individual to a subhuman level, and is simply not Christian.” Rob, your absolutely right. JWs , in many cases fail to
    recognise that there is a law that “Supersedes all other Laws” and rules
    out applying any Bible command in a way that results in harm to another
    human being. Whether it be shunning, denying a life saving
    transfusion or anything else. Romans, 13:8-10.
    Best Wishes, Ted

  • October 8, 2015 at 1:05 pm
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    Shunning is what the farisees did. Jesus instead surrounded himself with people who were outcasts in that society.
    The word is out here that the door-to-door ministry will
    soon disappear. In that case, it makes sense they would scrap the TMS.
    Calling those who leave “apostates” has become a dreaded
    thing. Apostates are considered worse than any other
    motive for being disfellowshipped. The word in itself SCARES everyone.
    Could we call ourselves something else?

    • October 8, 2015 at 4:51 pm
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      I used to think the same. Now it makes me think of a group of courageous human beings who stand up for what they believe it. tag me with it if you want but I will hold my head up and tell the world with pride why I have that label.

  • October 8, 2015 at 2:22 pm
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    All of us who were Witnesses and shunned anybody who was disfellowshipped, were in effect, facilitators of abuse and didn’t even realize it. We were enablers of the narcissistic “slave”.

    If we hadn’t shunned and all gone along with the shunning, it would have come to a stop. But we went along with it and our eyes were blind to the pain we were inflicting on the shunned. Our ears were deaf to the cries of the suffering and our mouths were mute because we didn’t speak up.

    Why didn’t I speak up? That was the question that I had to ask myself That was a reason for it. What was the reason?

    I had closed my mind to the pain that my shunning had on others until I am now the one that is being shunned. I am now wondering why won’t anybody listen to me to find out my side of why I am not going to meetings anymore and why they gave a marking talk about me? Why don’t they want to know what my problem is with the Watchtower Society?

    I had been led to believe that when I became one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, that all those people at the Kingdom Hall were now my “family”. They were supposed to love me like my own family. They were supposed to replace the family that I left behind. I was a faithful Witness for fifty years, going to meetings and service all that time. When I was going to meetings and service, they acted like thy really loved me, so why won’t any of those people who supposedly were my “family” and “friends” even acknowledge what happened to me?

    The fact that nobody who was supposedly my “family” seems to not care about me anymore, left me in a constant state of questioning why. As long as that question was not answered, I could not rest. I had to know. I did it too. I shunned those same people who had been my friends. Why won’t any of those people that I thought “loved” me, not stand up for me, even my closest friends? I had to dig deep in my consciousness to find the answer.

    Even after I left off going to meetings because I one hundred percent knew that God could never be behind the Watchtower Society because of all the lies they tell, I was still feeling abused mentally because of the fact that nobody at all was standing up for me. Was it a lack of character or integrity on my part? Is that why nobody is standing up for me? I don’t think so.

    That is not the reason why I enabled the Society’s shunning policy to influence me to shun my fellow brothers and sisters.

    What it really was, was that I dismissed and abandoned my own honesty and conscience for the approval of men. I allowed myself to be corrupted. It was cowardly and shameful and it showed that I had a weak character. I didn’t stand up for what I should have realized was evil. I was an enabler of abuse and I am deeply ashamed of myself for not having listened to my inner feelings. I should have listened to my gut but I let myself be bribed by the inheritance of the “new world” and the approval of men.

    I prostituted myself to the Watchtower for a reward, the same as a prostitute sells her body for money. A person who looks for approval from men, more than he longs for the welfare of his brothers and sisters, is a moral prostitute. That desire for approval from men, can override a clean conscience towards those people who should be our closest and dearest friends and relatives.

    So, those who are feeling that pain from the abuse of shunning have to realize, it has nothing to do with you. It has to do with them. Those who have abandoned you, have sold themselves for a bribe. They have prostituted themselves for a reward, the same as a streetwalker. They have devalued their integrity. What they are doing is repugnant and cowardly.

    • October 8, 2015 at 8:18 pm
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      Anonymous, your comment is one of the most poignant things I’ve ever read on this site. There are varying opinions among us here regarding the subject of responsibility, but your words exquisitely represent the position of someone who rightly accepts that there are things that, even as brainwashed Witnesses, we should have never gone along with.

      That’s not to say that the fact we were brainwashed shouldn’t mitigate ‘some’ of the guilt we carry. It should. And there are certainly those who deserve a much greater share of the responsibility than we do for the harm that has come as a result of the unconscionable shunning (and other) policies of the Org.

      But I appreciate that you don’t feel like you were an entirely different person during your time in the Org, so that now you’re merely taking back ownership of your body now that that other person is gone.

      I think accepting responsibility is a healthy way to move on. I believe remembering what we have been capable of in the past provides more of an incentive to never repeat the mistakes we’ve made.

      That’s not to say that we should allow ourselves to be crushed by feelings of guilt. We just have to keep a balanced view of the past, and let it help us make a better future for ourselves, as better people.

      Thank you again for your beautifully honest comment, and I truly wish you the best, and only happiness for your future.

    • October 8, 2015 at 11:27 pm
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      @Anonymous . I must say an ELOQUENT POST about SHUNNING & the Responsibility we ALL have been Guilty of because of the EDICTS of 7 FALLIBLE MEN !
      HAPPILY Last month I Put some of that Guilt behind me . A DISFELLOWSHIPPED ELDER & PIONEER who I had known from my Pioneer days in the 1980s crossed my Path in the street! I Walked Straight up to him & SHOOK HIS HAND! It was RISKY because it was in our territory & any JW could have driven past! BUT I am GLAD I spoke to him for about 40 minutes. He said to me ‘You Know I am STILL DISFELLOWSHIPPED ,But I am thinking of COMING BACK!!!!
      Well, Happily after discussing with him the FLIP FLOP Policies of the GB & the HIDDEN CHILD ABUSE & then he Proceeded to tell me the BAD ARROGANT ATTITUDE of a Circuit Overseer that he & I knew years ago & what went on behind the Scenes . Anyway at the end of the discussion He said I had CHANGED HIS MIND & instead he was going to train as a Counsellor to help young people because when he was an Elder he loved helping people ! So the Organisation is LOSING a LOT of the DECENT JWs because they see through the LIES & HYPOCRISY of the 7 BUSINESS MEN in BROOKLYN !!

      • October 9, 2015 at 11:31 am
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        Fantastic, Pickled Brain! I applaud this victory in the fight against the vampires running the Org. I hope your acquaintance will indeed move on with his life and never devote another second to the service of this wretched cult. Very good work, my friend :)

  • October 8, 2015 at 3:17 pm
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    Anonymous.
    Just going back in this thread a little. Thanks for the
    additional evidence regarding the false date of 607 BCE

    I looked it up and have put it in my little black book of
    quotes that come in useful when my Brother in Law
    Elder visits. He admitted after one particular shoot out
    that we had, that the GB were false prophets. But after
    57 years as a JW, and most of his in laws involved in it
    I don’t think he has the will to follow through on it.
    ( Unlike you dear lady). Best Wishes Ted.

    • October 8, 2015 at 3:48 pm
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      Ted, I tried to show that to my husband but he refused to look at it. At least your Brother in Law admitted that the GB are false prophets. That’s something anyway. Best wishes to you too.

  • October 8, 2015 at 4:17 pm
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    Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I have been struggling throughout my awaking with the lable “apostate”, however, after watching this video(and balling my eyes out) I am proud to stand up and say: “I AM AN APOSTATE AND I LOVE JWs!”

    • October 9, 2015 at 1:17 pm
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      @Jason- Oh man, I wish I could give you a hug! Don’t feel bad about being labeled an apostate by false prophets! Be proud! When the false prophet calls YOU an apostate then you are on the right side!

      May I ask you, are you DF’d?

      If not then please considering staying in the “active publisher” ranks so you can help others get out!

      If you are DF’ed, I’m sure you still have contacts by email and cell numbers! Write them questions about 607 BCE and other lies! Let them do some research! When they do, they will uncover the ugly truth!

  • October 8, 2015 at 4:18 pm
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    When the Watchtower puts in print that “apostates” are mentally diseased, they are trying to destroy that person’s reputation in the community and in the congregation and in their own families. The purpose of that defamation of a person’s reputation is deliberate. The Watchtower Organization has perfected the practice of word murder to a science.

    The Watchtower Organization targets their own people, which is the most repulsive to a normal person’s thinking but it means nothing to the Watchtower Organization if a person’s reputation has been smeared by marking talks and disfellowshipping. It means nothing to the Watchtower if that person commits suicide because of it.

    The cowardly “slave” will delude themselves with their imagined standing with God and engage in direct slanderous attacks on anyone who doesn’t share in that delusion and calls them on it.

    If the Society’s elders or henchmen are too cowardly to call the “apostate” in to disfellowship him directly, then they will give “marking” talks about them. These cowardly attacks are non-direct with whisper campaigns. The intent is the same, to mentally murder that person with slander and like the cowards that they are, their weapons of choice will be words and all the while posing as pious and saintly.

    Any of us who have either disassociated ourselves or been disfellowshipped directly or even faded have been the victim of of slander by the ones who were supposed to be our family our friends.

    It is almost incomprehensible for a normal person to understand how people can be so evil, but especially when you realize that it’s the people who are the closest to them who are the very ones that these people will go after to destroy them if that person doesn’t worship them with the adulation that they so much have to have.

    These people have no consciences. They have no love. It is only when we see the real people for what they really are, that it finally dawns on us, just how evil these people can be. Sometimes it takes decades. It did me. But I am glad I found out now, instead of later.

    I’d rather not be in the dark one more day when it comes to these people who run the Watchtower. They are evil and every day, I am hoping that more and more people see them for what they really are and not for what they pretend to be.

    It needs to be exposed for all to see so that it can be stopped dead in it’s tracks before it destroys one more person’s life. All lives are precious and the Watchtower destroys lives. It doesn’t make lives better. It destroys lives. It destroys families.

    • October 9, 2015 at 1:23 pm
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      @Anonymous- WOW! GREAT COMMENT! And yes, I do know how it is. I have finally come to the conclusion that when the bible speaks about “False Prophets” and “speaking with a forked tongue” I know it is talking about ANY evil cult that PRETENDS to represent GOD and speaks about LOVE LOVE LOVE love love love LOVE and LOVE all day long yet INTENTIONALLY BREAKS FAMILIES APART AND CAUSES SO MUCH SUFFERING THAT PEOPLE WOULD RATHER DIE!

      Yeah, I’m sure Jesus would approve! LOL

  • October 8, 2015 at 4:49 pm
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    Anonymous.
    A powerful heart searching statement. I understand your
    regrets. I have sat on committees that have disfellowshipped
    people who needed not punishment, but compassion and
    help, not more misery piled on them.

    I am truly sorry for those things, and if it were possible to
    replay them my part in them would be vastly different.
    If we learn from our wrong actions and become better people,
    then something valuable has been salvaged from our past.

    The initial mistake I made, and you allude to to it also. Was
    surrendering my conscience and reason to others, coming
    under their control. But we’ve snapped out of it, it’s all in the
    past. Best to leave it there and move on.

    • October 8, 2015 at 5:32 pm
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      Ted, your comment “I have sat on committes that have disfellowshipped people who needed not punishment, but compassion and help, not more misery piled on them” is the most insightful, succinct description of the experiences I have heard of the kangaroo court called the J W Judicial Committee. The whole process is barbarous with the final outcome even worse. In most cases these people are in pain and distress and need a loving “shepard”. Hah! GOOD LUCK!

      • October 8, 2015 at 5:37 pm
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        Shepherd I meant

    • October 8, 2015 at 5:57 pm
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      Ted, on a softer note, your apology was beautifully written and obviously extremely heartfelt. Thank you for doing that.

  • October 8, 2015 at 8:01 pm
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    I came to the conclusion that my JW beliefs where wrong when I became an elder and found myself having to maintain policy’s that I knew weren’t scriptural ie disfellowshipping, handling child abuse,elevating the organization to sacred status,teaching changing truths that had to be discarded, to name a few.
    However the brotherhood still have to be admired for their humility and attempts at being spiritual, and that remains my concern, how to give true support to good people without tearing their belief system to pieces?
    It’s easy to critisize and fault find,but the Christian message is still going out and Christ is still looking for those who belong to him, and many JWs display a good heart despite the GB trying their best to interfere in that process.
    It’s not over till the fat lady sings,I feel many who have left will be the ones who are going to help those in when the reality of what’s going on is undeniable, the ARG in Australia is a good example of this,so while it’s easy to be negative, a TRUE Christian is going to show love no matter what the circumstance,I believe this to be the challenge that faces everyone on this site that knows TATT, Jesus helped those in need despite the fear and intimidation of the Pharisees who were the governing body of Israel , can we be the same as Jesus ?

    • October 9, 2015 at 1:29 am
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      It will be their great tribulation if they don’t wake up first. The dubs will mourn and cry for their precious lifestyle ,not that God’s name was defamed or that they demoted Jesus.Ive thought long and hard about those trapped in the tower and like when we were vulnerable and became trapped let’s hope there will be a window of opportunity to escape before the crumbling tower finally collapses.Who knows it might be a scarlet cord moment. ruthlee

    • October 9, 2015 at 4:36 am
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      @Wild Olive .. I thought Long & Hard about your comment because sometimes I ADMIT .. My Fingers Typing are more often than Not .. FASTER Than My BRAIN . I Like your KIND & REASONED Style of Commenting & I presume when you Refer to the ‘ BROTHERHOOD ‘ as being Spiritual & Humble , you Meant the Ordinary ‘Rank & File ‘ & NOT the GB & I would Totally Agree that MOST Brothers & Sisters are Genuine Humble & Decent People !
      The point you make about ‘Tearing Down Their Belief System’ …. Well Jesus did TEAR DOWN The Pharasaical ORGANISATION of the Ordinary Jewish Persons of his Day … In Fact JESUS RIPPED IT APART … Hook , Line & Sinker!! He OPENLY & BLUNTLY TRASHED the Pharasaical Organisation Apart in front of Ordinary ‘RANK & FILE ‘ JEWS by Calling them WHITEWASHED GRAVES FULL of DEAD MENS BONES& Told the Pharisees they were from their FATHER … THE DEVIL !!
      SO I Presume the PARALLEL would be US here on this site to try & imitate Jesus & CONDEMN These 7 GB PHARISEES for what they are ??
      I AGREE with you & Sometimes it will be VERY VERY PAINFUL & MENTALLY DEVASTATING to have our Whole BELIEF STRUCTURE DESTROYED , But the Alternative is MILLIONS will be Dragged into this CULT & Millions more CHILDREN BORN IN Not finding out until HALF their LIVES are wasted .
      If I am WRONG in my comment I am willing to be corrected because what I like about this site is that WE CAN ALL DISAGREE with One Another yet Remain Friends & NOT BE SHUNNED … UNLIKE the WATCHTOWER ORGANISATION !!

      • October 9, 2015 at 9:00 am
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        Hold me back!, hold me back!

      • October 9, 2015 at 2:33 pm
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        Yes PB, I mean the humble not the magnificent 7 and all who are infatuated with them .
        It’s clear that the GB have become modern day Pharisees, to a tee, and yes Jesus roundly condemned them,but he didn’t tell his disciples to abandon the system of worship that the Pharisees where care taking, Jesus warned his followers not to take up the attitudes of the Pharisees, ie lovers of money,power,titles,looking righteous publicly,putting tradition ahead of the scriptures etc.
        This is as I see it the real challenge, for the first time in my life Ime experiencing what Jesus experienced, caught between what’s true and false,so while Jesus roasted the pharisees(Mathew 23) he was compassionate and caring for those mislead by them. That’s the the challenge everyone on this site has to accept, am I going to show true Christian love and behaviour,or be just as pharisaical towards the mislead?
        I don’t see Jesus going around calling the lost in the nation of Israel by disparaging names like ” the dubs” or ” kool aid drinkers” . Like Jesus said your righteousness needs to be more than the Pharisees not below it. If you are genuinely desiring to help the lost in the org,then help them with LOVE , and prove you belong to Christ,not to a different group of Pharisees.

        • October 9, 2015 at 8:33 pm
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          @Wild Olive . Thank you for your Reply. & Nice Comment! … You were Obviously a Kind Hearted & Warm Elder when you were in the Organisation & You STILL are ! That is Why you Got OUT of the Clutches of the GB because you could see the Hypocrisy of the GB & ALL the Elders by following the Directives of the GB were NOT Allowing their own consciences dictate what was Right according to Christ BUT following the Consciences & Whims of the GB whether on issues like Blood Transfusions, Organ Transplants, Reporting of Child Abuse to the Police Immediately, Baptising Children under 18 , etc, etc .
          I know you said you don’t like the words ‘JDUBS’ or ‘Drinking the Kool Aid’ which I have never used but I maybe those who use this terminology are Ex-JWs who are frustrated , angry at what has happened to them , but you are Right that the best way to help people is through LOVE & RESPECT .
          And Thanks Again for your Reply . Take care & Keep Up the Fight against the Injustices of the the JW Organisation.

        • October 9, 2015 at 11:36 pm
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          Wild Olive, if some here speak in terms that would offend someone with feelings as delicate as a butterfly’s wing, that hardly puts them in the class of the Pharisees. Many of us here are ourselves the walking wounded, carrying pain and dealing with struggles that we will likely never fully convey to each other.

          Along with that comes an understanding that sometimes we will hear language that–rather than intended to be an insult to those still in captivity–is really only reflecting the commenter’s own frustration over something, or anger, regret, sadness, etc.

          If someone looking for answers is turned off by what they hear us say, then they may not be ready for the truth yet. Or, it could simply turn out that this may not be the site that will most effectively reach them. After all, even the articles and videos on this site are not designed to softly tiptoe up and gently whisper the truth into people’s delicate little ears.

          Attempting to stifle freeness of speech in the JWsurvey Comments section will not prove to be a worthwhile use of your time.

          Although truly abusive speech won’t be tolerated here, a little well-placed sarcasm, with the occasional spritz of derision, easily falls withing our normal operating parameters.

          • October 10, 2015 at 3:36 am
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            JBReezner,Ime hearing what you say,and yes there is plenty of GB induced pain out there,but this is the whole crux of the matter,at one point in time what all of us learnt from our WT days had a beneficial effect,something changed, I know personally that if I am going to progress as a human then I can no longer believe what’s printed in the WT
            But my younger years “in the truth” where without a doubt the best years of my life, most of the people I knew back then who where not JWs had drug and alcohol problems,lived promiscuous lives that cased them a lot of heart ache. And me I was spared all of that.I have nothing to regret from my youth,but I know people who are still battling demons from their teenage years. And I have to give the credit to what was taught and encouraged by the org.
            What I want to hear on this site is the alternatives, no one really offers anything concrete,maybe because they are humble,or maybe they are still lost and just want to vent,I don’t know, I would like to hear solutions, I want to hear how people have improved,I want to hear how WT chains are broken, I want something better,is that too much to ask?

          • October 10, 2015 at 10:22 am
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            Well said, Wild Olive. You made your needs more clear with that. And no, what you’re wanting is not too much to ask– but it may be something that you do literally have to ask to get.

            You don’t have to wait until one of us says something particularly enlightening about our personal recovery process. You can simply ask the gang, “Hey, what’s helping you folks to carry on after finding out you were living your lives in the service of a cult?”

            Many here have already answered that question more than once since coming to this site, so that is likely one reason why you don’t hear those personal advice comments more often. But surely most here would be happy to reiterate the things that have helped them to cope and move on, if someone asks.

            As for the beneficial effects of having been in a cult for many years, I’ve heard that line of reasoning before. I’ve even let that thought rattle around in my own head at times. But I’ve ended up with this take on it: None of us know who we COULD have been had we not been trapped in a high-control cult.

            Sure, it may not be that we would’ve been destined for greatness, but neither should we assume that we would’ve crashed and burned like others we may know of who weren’t living a strictly-controlled lifestyle. We have no idea what good “worldy” people could’ve come into our lives, providing positive influences, good advice and good examples.

            I do agree that we shouldn’t be filled with so many caustic feelings toward the Org that it tears us apart, but neither should we spend very much time giving credit to a family-destroying, child-killing false religion for making us better people.

            As for solutions, learning we’re in a cult sometimes doesn’t come with any clear solutions. It’s a case-by-case issue. Sometimes getting out isn’t even a viable option, which brings us back to the value of having this place where we can vent to each other, enjoy each other’s company and encourage each other as only people with this unique, shared experience can.

            So, hang in there with us, make any necessary adjustments to the thickness of your skin, keep an open mind, feel free to share experiences and ask questions, and enjoy the ride, my friend.

  • October 8, 2015 at 9:12 pm
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    Did I detect a little Watchtowerese at the tail end of that comment, Wild Olive?? Ewwwww…

    You can hope for a delicate awakening for those in the Org, but there will be no dodging the harsh reality that the time, money and effort they sacrificed to this cult was utterly wasted. And even if you leave a framework of Christianity intact, there will still be a very large part of their belief system that WILL necessarily be torn to pieces.

    But, as you say, there are many good people still in there. So I hope that they can get out with as little trauma as possible.

    Pickled Brain is our resident expert at techniques of gentle persuasion. When he gets back on here, I’m sure he will be able to offer a suggestion or two of how to best reach our friends who are still in the clutches of the Org. :)

    • October 8, 2015 at 11:40 pm
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      @JB Reezner . AHAaa . Gentle Persuasion Techniques… It Has Been WHISPERED to me I Have … HIDDEN POWERS???
      JB have a look at my above Reply to Anonymous about my Gentle Persuasion Technique with a DISFELLOWSHIPPED ELDER & PIONEER!

Comments are closed.