It is a predicament that all too many visitors to this website, myself included, find themselves in: believing Jehovah’s Witness relatives cutting off all contact in the belief they must do so in order to show loyalty to God.
And there appears to be no sign of Watchtower relaxing its cruel shunning policy, which it has repeatedly denied even having – especially if a video from the 2015 regional convention series is anything to go by.
In the video, which has just started to be circulated on Facebook, a JW couple identified as Robert and Brenda Sutton are interviewed about their experience raising three children. It emerges that one of their children was disfellowshipped not long after getting a new job where there was “questionable association with coworkers.”
The Suttons, who are now working at the Watchtower bethel facilities in Warwick, unashamedly talk about how they “cut off all association” with their child after he or she was disciplined by elders. They describe how the shunning eventually led to him or her returning to the organization.
After they give their experience, the speaker praises the couple for their “excellent example” as they exit the stage to applause from the audience.
What makes this video especially difficult to watch is how the parents who did the shunning are quick to portray themselves as victims in this scenario, with seemingly no thought for the trauma of ostracism inflicted on their child.
“It was one of the hardest things that I ever had to face,” relates Brenda Sutton. “I had many sleepless nights praying to Jehovah, but I came to realize that we needed to trust in what Proverbs 22 and verse 6 says: ‘train a boy in the way he should go, even when he grows old he will not depart from it.'”
In other words: train up a boy to believe what you believe without question, and if he grows up and walks away from it of his own free will you can bank on him returning if you are prepared to emotionally blackmail him.
“We began to question ourselves as parents,” says Robert Sutton. “Where did we go wrong? Were we too strict? Were we too lenient? Just what did we do that was wrong?”
Guilt and self-loathing are typical by-products of cult indoctrination, and few things induce these toxic feelings quite as well as an adult son or daughter walking away from the faith despite the best efforts of believing parents to super-impose their beliefs on him or her.
“But one thing we did for sure, and that’s in addition to multiple times with praying to Jehovah,” added Robert Sutton. “We made sure that we cling to our spiritual routine.”
Yes – staying busy, busy, busy in “Jehovah’s service” helps keep those feelings of guilt at bay. You may have let the Creator down by failing to calibrate your child’s brain to his specifications, but at least you can put in extra ministry time to compensate.
“What was it that moved your child to return to Jehovah?” asks the speaker.
“Well it was the missed association with the family,” says Brenda Sutton proudly and unflinchingly. “And here’s why, I had always told our kids… ‘I would die for you, I love you, would die for you, but if you ever leave Jehovah I wouldn’t be there’. And they knew that we wouldn’t waver on this. But sad to say, and as hard as it was, we had to cut off all association.”
Speaking for myself, those who are being shunned by JW relatives don’t want their relatives to die for them. They want them to live with them and be in their lives.
A person could easily find himself or herself in a situation where they choose to die for a complete stranger, perhaps a small child on a road as a car approaches, but that doesn’t mean they have full love for the person they are saving. They are merely showing basic human solidarity for a vulnerable person in peril.
Real love is when you stand by your child no matter what, through good times and bad, and sadly JW parents who capitulate to the cruel and baseless rules about shunning can never lay claim to such love. Their love is conditional – based on their offspring sharing the beliefs they have been indoctrinated to accept, usually by their own parents.
Speaking as someone who has recently become a father, I know that wild horses couldn’t pull me away from my baby daughter – especially not something as frivolous and petty as ideological differences.
It saddens me to think my father once felt his own love for me was unbreakable, perhaps when he once cradled me in his arms when I was a baby. The fact that a cult can erode such strong parental bonds only underscores for me how corrosive Watchtower ideology is, and how important it is that it be combated, refuted and dismantled wherever possible.
Further reading…
The father: i am thinking where I was wrong? you don’t know where you when wrong? Is very simple. You and you wife teach your children the lies of the watchtower, and your children want to find out the truth, man The Hitler paranoid of inhumanity have contaminated the Jehovah’s witnesses brains. Nether he’s children have the right to examine the watchtower teachings in order to please seven man, and three stupid elders.
“Yes – staying busy, busy, busy in “Jehovah’s service” helps keep those feelings of guilt at bay. You may have let the Creator down by failing to calibrate your child’s brain to his specifications, but at least you can put in extra ministry time to compensate.”
Thats exactly what i see in my mother. Her children didn’t become witnesses and she says beeing a pioneer is the only way to cope with this situation. She would rather kill herself than stop preaching 70 hours a month for the organization.
The parable of the “Prodigal Son” demolishes the shunning
practice. The son was not kept on a short leash, he was
allowed to follow his own inclination, even though it was a
bad decision.
The father imposed no conditions on the sons return. The
way back was always open. “No strings attached”.
When the son did return. There was no meeting of village
elders to determine repentance, or whether a period of
probation was necessary. There was no legalistic system
interfering in what was purely a family concern.
The father saw the son in the distance and ran to him and
embraced him, showing spontaneous unconditional love.
The son then acknowledged his error without any coercion.
The joyful reunion of father and son was not accomplished
by shunning, ( which often results in a permanent rift ).
But by “Unconditional love”.
@Ted . Your Comments are SO TRUE! The PRODIGAL SON is the WAY Jesus showed us how to treat Repentant Sinners…….INSTANT ASSOCIATION
NO JUDICIAL COMMITTEE of 3 ELDERS!!! NO ISOLATING the Repentant one for Maybe A YEAR or SO until 3 FALLIBLE ELDERS choose to Re-Instate the person or not!!! WE ARE ALL SINNERS & FALL SHORT of the Glory of God(Romans 3v23)
The PHARASAICAL 7 BROOKLYN GB MEN!!! GO Beyond ‘What is Written in Scripture’ & in Revelation that is Punishable with Death!!!(Rev.22v18,19)
Very good way to look at it Ted, I’ve often thought the same whenever I hear the example of the prodigal son used. Also, the son was hungry and homeless so he came back to live with his dad to be able to enjoy what he had before. The dad didn’t think twice, his love for the son was big and unconditional. The JWs should really “read” into this story and apply it in their lives but as long as the brain cord is connected to the mother ship (WT) I see very little chance of changes.
Lol I loved that. So long as his braincord was attached to the mother ship wt! Lol
That is a great point. The son was away from his father not because of being shunned. The son departed and was way, but his father was ready to show him love in any way possible. He did not place any conditions upon the reinstatement of their relationship. For as much as JW’s like to use this parable, they completely ignore this important part of it.
I simply hate this organization, I really don’t know why I committed myself to it. I’ve grown up in this thing. they’re the only people know, they’re the ones who connect me to all my work. I would really wanna leave bt this whole disfellowshiping thing terrifies me. If I fade, all will know & will ask qns. I just don’t know.
@just asking, when I stopped going to meetings (after 50 years) several asked me questions but didn’t want to know why I stopped going, except for one very nice person (not baptized but attended meetings) but most avoid me. Thank goodness, when she asked me why I quit, she assured me that she wouldn’t tell the elders and come to find out, she also hates the religion but didn’t have anybody else to confide in and when we got to talking, we shared a common belief that it’s a fraud. Her daughter who I studied with and was getting really involved, is fading also. My husband has told me that he hardly ever sees either of them anymore at the meetings (which makes me really happy).
If it’s any consolation, what are the Thursday night meetings like where you attend? If your Kingdom Hall is like I think most Kingdom Halls, there’s maybe half the attendance as when there’s a Circuit Overseer visiting. My husband said that last Thursday night, there was hardly anybody there and one of the elders gave a congregation needs talk which basically telling the congregation there was nothing to worry because they see the attendance being so low.
I had the courage to stop going and I think there’s a lot who force themselves to put their bodies in those seats because they are afraid of being stigmatized if they start missing meetings but you have to live your life your way. Don’t be a puppet to those people.
Don’t get to be 60 years old before realizing that there is no real love at the Kingdom Hall. It’s all conditional (which isn’t real love anyway). You don’t need that kind of love. We all deserve real friends and real love.
I personally wouldn’t write a letter of disassociation because in effect, you are saying that you are disfellowshipping them. It is all up to the person. If I disassociate myself, then I know that two of my children would be compelled to shun me and I don’t want them to have to go through that. If I didn’t care about anybody at the Hall, then I would write a letter of disassociation but I care too much about my children to do that to them and there are a bunch of really great people at my old Hall that I don’t want to do that too.
If you read Crisis of Conscience, you will see that there is no way that any God could be backing the Watchtower organization. It’s a fraud, passing itself off as a legitimate charity and sooner or later, the truth will come out and we will all be vindicated. It can’t go on forever. At least I hope I live long to see it collapse.
If you are young, please be your own person and don’t let that Organization control the rest of your life, just for fear of being disfellowshipped. There are real people out there who will be your friend and you will never find that in the Organization.
@anonymous another fantastic post! There is nothing more conditional than the unconditional love from JW’s!
Outstanding comment Anonymous! You hit the nail on the head for a lot of people.
I got deep into the fading process when I started community college and became very active on campus. I enrolled right after high school, when most of my JW friends were pressuring me to pioneer. Needless to say that ruffled a-lot of feathers at the hall. It was not until the 2013 convention when I heard “any continued education is a temptation to ensnare yourself in Satan’s system, through bad association and etc; if you go to college you are a tool of the devil.”
I heard that and immediately walked out of the assembly hall, enough was enough. Three generations of my family gave their youth to the organization; I refuse to do the same. I was pressured into getting baptized at 14, that was a huge mistake.
Stay strong, having family involved is the worst part, I share your pain. Expressing myself here has helped me a lot, as you know. The healing process is long but it’s still one foot in front of the other. Know that you are not alone in your struggle.
Your true family will love you unconditionally
Great post, well done, I am fading too, and I refused to be visited by the elders.
I’m in the same situation… :( I think many are.
“I prefer to be true to myself, even at the hazard of incurring the ridicule of others, rather than to be false, and to incur my own abhorrence.”
– Frederick Douglass
There are many good articles available on the internet regarding the “Art of Fading”. Here is one.
http://thejehovahswitnesses.org/leaving-the-watchtower-fading.php
How did I get myself into this trap?
Why did I bow to the pressure of getting baptised @ 13. One is better off a worldly man that a disfellowshiped jw.
Because…like me you were only 13, and that says it all.
Same here… I was 14.
It’s not your fault u were 13 how were u supposed to know. I was baptized at 12 with no understanding of the implications that would have later. I just quit going altogether 2 years ago and it is a total relief. So much anxiety every meeting and not feeling like you are doing enough gone!
I’m lucky though my family will still talk to me. I basically told them it wasn’t for me anymore but didn’t go into anymore detail and they left it at that. I thought about dissociating but that would result in my family shunning me since my dads an elder. So Im just inactive and am content with that. People in the hall will eventually give up trying to convince you, and you can start getting on with your life without interruption.
Sites like this one among others helped me to realize I am not the only one who went through this. Your not alone!
hmm funnily enough i had a coversation with my children this week both not nbtzd pubs yet we discussed df a bit my boy cannot get his tender heart around this poor boy i will have to toughen the little blighter up! irony folks i took both my children in my arms and promised them no matter what they do i will never ever ever shun ignore or turn a cold shoulder to them until i draw my last dying breath thay are my wonderful gift from my creator so why would i ever trash that draw your own conclusions feeling a little stronger day by day
In this interview we have spelled out for us, the real reason,
why many disfellowshipped ones return.
The Mother was asked. “What was it that moved your Son to
return to JHVH”? — She replied, “The missed association with
the Family”.
So it was affection for the family, not the religion, that motivated
his return. Now the Son is compelled to go through a
meaningless routine, just going through the motions of being a JW.
Not worshipping in Spirit and Truth.
The interview then, demonstrated that shunning. As well as exerting
cruel pressure, does not produce genuine Christians, and serves no
worthwhile purpose.
yes, yes!
“but if you ever leave Jehovah I wouldn’t be there”
It would seem to me they have an issue conflating God and Religion, when they are seperate entities.
Is it not possible to be close to God and reject religion? Because thats exactly what Jesus did.
It would seem the quote really meant, “if you do not follow the philosophies this organization has set, no matter how they may change…”
This org Is so cruel. I cant believe I fell for baptism at age 12. I was too young to understand anything
The GB is equal to Satan who can turn into an angel of light.
Ted excellent post
“The Mother was asked. “What was it that moved your Son to return to JHVH”? — She replied, “The missed association with
the Family”.
“The interview then, demonstrated that shunning. As well as exerting cruel pressure, does not produce genuine Christians, and serves no worthwhile purpose.
There are a number of excellent arguments being made here. I’m going to take the liberty of re-posting one in particular that necessitates repeating:
“Susan says:
June 5, 2015 at 5:19 pm
What hypocrites the JW org is. In the June 2013 Watchtower they say the following about couples who use the silent treatment: “some spouses use the silent treatment as a form of revenge…some as a means to get what they want…when it is used a means to retaliate or manipulate, it prolongs conflict and erodes respect.” So the Watchtower Society knows full well that they are seeking to manipulate members who leave them by shunning them. They isolate them and make them feel that they are completely alone in the world and use shunning to get them to return. This has resulted in countless suicides. I personally know of SIX! This barbaric treatment needs to stop.”
Thank you Susan! What specific article were you quoting from? Is it from the public or study article of WT magazine?
@J Brown, that quote is from the June 2013 Awake article, entitled “How to End the Silent Treatment” on pages 4,5.
Thank you Anonymous. Found it! Wow just wow! I’ve heard of people who speak out both sides of their mouth. WT takes the cake on this!
A must read: June 2013 Awake “How to End the Silent Treatment” on pages 4,5.
So many excellent comments on this article.My brother who was a Elder at the time was completely broken when his eldest son rejected the ‘Truth’ He followed the Watchtowers’ instructions and disowned him.This gut -renching cruel practice contributed to his Mental Breakdown and demise.A parents’ love should be unconditional, just like the parable of the prodigal son…
I don’t really understand why they keep the majority of us holed up in this org by blackmail.
What’s the use of having a big membership when over a half are nt interested? Why can’t they just provide room for baptism cancellation especially for some of us who were minors at the time of baptism? I am in a meeting right now but all am listening to is nothing but rubbish. I even can’t believe I once believed this nonsense. THIS GONNA BE MY LAST ONE.
@just asking, when I became convinced of all the lies of the Society, I stopped cold turkey with going to meetings but it still took me quite a few months of worrying what if the Society is right about Armageddon?.
If a lot of people are like me, the meetings were boring and tedious and I had to force myself to go in service each month and I dreaded assemblies and I hated to think of all those friends at the assemblies who wouldn’t see my face there at meetings and assemblies. It was all those things that made me keep going.
Now that I see how completely what a fraud it is, I only pity all those who are still in that situation and can’t get out except to stop going to the meetings like I did and then have to go through what I am going through right now, knowing what the real “truth” is but not being able to tell them.
The thing is though, that we have no way of conversing with all those who are still going to the meetings to find out just how they feel. I would bet though that the scare of Armageddon is what keeps the majority going even though in their heart of hearts, they wonder if it’s all bunk and they are being made fools of?
That is why Lloyd’s idea this web site is simply genius!!!
I can see a lot of parallels between the apostate shunning issue and the trials of the LGBT community. Being such a strong advocate (without exception) for human rights, I regard John Cedars as being something of a silent hero for this oppressed group, and I’m sure he, more than most, can relate to their experience of social isolation. As the recent developments with Bruce-now Caitlyn-Jenner have shown, there is still considerable resistance to enlightened human expression, and shunning must be recognised for what it is: a cynical weapon that is used to limit our freedoms. Let us all stand together on this issue, regardless of our sexuality, creed, colour, beliefs, etc. Take courage from Bruce’s decision to become Caitlyn, regardless of the hateful reaction of an increasingly small-minded minority. We shall win this war for the sake of all humanity. It’s our time now!
Agree!
I knew so many individuals that got reinstated just for the ability to associate with their family and friends.
After their reinstatement most of them never went in service again and rarely attended meetings – but they got rid of the shunning.
This proves to me that reinstatement has absolutely nothing to do with spiritual guidance – just another crazy procedural and pharasiacal rule.
Just asking, asked:
“I don’t really understand why they keep the majority of us holed up in this org by blackmail.
What’s the use of having a big membership when over a half aren’t interested?”
All because of one man Joseph Rutherford. A pompous self centered (charlatan) who considered himself appointed by Jehovah and the angels to interpret God’s Word (?) the bible. This man who enjoyed not one but two 16 cylinder Cadillac’s, fine silk shirts, a farm on Staten Island (my mother his personal maid), illegal beer and wine cellar during the prohibition, hundreds and thousands of then known Bible Students at his every beck and call. Then had the gual to build a mansion in San Diego and say it was built for David and other bible characters, who were coming back very soon. By the way, my father drove those caddies for him, and also carried a 45 Smith and Wesson automatic for da judges protection. My sister has the license to prove it in our family records.
This fellow is responsible for almost all of the jw doctrine still followed today. He ushered in fanatical stands on Christendom, neutrality, flag salute, no blood, no christmas, no birthdays, 144,000 vs ‘other sheep’, only organizational appointments of elders etc., and he personally cemented these teachings by making outlandish asserstions regarding ‘millions now living will never die’, ancient bible characters coming back to life on earth in 1925 and even after never gave up on it for several years thereafter.
He ruled with an iron fist, he was chief writer, chief editor, chief of all chiefs, my father said that the judge could tell someone to jump off the cliff, and that person would feel hard pressed to no do as he was told. Talk about strong personality, he had one and more. He personally mentored Knathan Knorr, Fred Franz (of 1975 fame), Milton Henchel, and other neophytes who were to take over the helm upon this charlatan’s death in 1942.
The answer to your question imo is simple, it is men who have accepted other men as representatives for God himself. These people actually convince themselves that even when the utterances of these self proclaimed men of God are proven absolute garbage, with no evidence or even semblance of accuracy, the errors were allowed by Jehovah God…..so that future arrogant self appointed men of god can correct the errors (by new light) of the old former men of god. Get it?
Belief in any interpretation of the bible message is in and of itself giving full trust in man. Because you cannot point to any religious doctrine, policy, rule, or pronouncement, that does not somewhere sometime originate from a man or group of men. Right?
Do not worry, Jehovah’s Witnesses (including those parents) are imitators of their god Jehovah when it comes to coercing people who courageously reject his/her dictatorship.
(Amos 7:17) . . .this is what Jehovah says: “Your wife will become a prostitute in the city, and your sons and your daughters will fall by the sword. Your land will be apportioned out with a measuring line, and you yourself will die in an unclean land; and Israel will surely go into exile from its land.”’”
You see, they resemble their god!!
The fact that this practice of shunning is encouraged by the WTBTS, of which I am also a victim too indicates so strongly to me that this organisation in Britain needs to be investigated fully by the Charity Commission and put to task to.prove how it benefits the community by actively encouraging the tearing apart of families, the foundation of any community. It needs to be stripped of its charity status, and its tax free position and exposed for what this mind numbing cult is: A dictatorial, ruthless and self absorbed movement out to destroy lives, spiritually, psychologically and in some cases physically. It has to go!!!
Alex,
Have you complained to the Charity Commission about shunning yet?
If not, I strongly urge you to do so. You can complain online!
I encourage all of us Brits to do so if we have not already!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
I hate the expression in the “The Truth”.
Here’s why:
Was it true when Rutherford said in 1919?:
O “Millions Now Living Will Never Die.”
O “Armageddon is coming in 1925.”
O “Abraham, Moses and other notable men of faith would be resurrected in 1925.”
Was it true in 1969 when Nathan Knorr and Fred Franz said?:
O “If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things.”
O “Armageddon is coming on or around 1975.”
O “The generation of 1914 will not pass away until the end comes.”
O “In the 1980’s they said: The end would come before the end of the 20th Century.”
—————————————————
All of the above was NOT true!! So if anything it should be called “The Falsehood”!!
Knowing all this now I would never have joined them. Only found it all out via internet since February this year after three years of attending and slogging my guts out.John cedars has saved me from having a breakdown and showing me I got brains by waking up.love to you all.
I found this video especially hard to watch as I imagine my parents would say the exact same thing. This organization is getting more and more gross by the minute.
On another note: Is this the same guy who has been featured on the monthly broadcast?
Oh wow. I can almost guarantee they use my parents for this part. Either that or they will have to sit there ashamed and crying. I’m not sure which hurts worse.
@Sarah, I can’t think of anything that could hurt worse than having your parents ashamed of you just because you don’t share their religious views.
No matter how good a person you are or what you have accomplished in life, you are nothing to your parents if you don’t share their religion.
A person can divorce a cruel mate and go on with your life, but everyone needs a parent’s love. What young person can afford a therapist when they are being blackmailed into faking a belief in their parent’s religion just so they can stay in their parent’s good graces?
Thankyou for those thoughts:( I sometimes feel like people are starting to expect me to move on. But I will never get over the rejection from my parents, sisters and brother. I know that.
Sarah, this is a really good video for all of us experiencing Watchtower abuse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IshP0WONWqI
RE: “The audience must be confused…They applaud when they should be appalled.”
I’m not so sure that the entire assembly audience comprehends what is said from the platform.
At one assembly I attended, the speaker read a list of figures which indicated increases in whatever the category was: Field service hours, books placed, newly baptized, congregation attendance, numbers of pioneers — whatever. A round of applause followed each increased number announced.
Then the brother read a number that showed a decrease in one category and a round of applause followed. I and several others sat there silent as thousand of people applauded the decreased number.
I’m guessing that many, if not most, of the assembly delegates are totally numbed by the continual boredom that they aren’t really comprehending anything that is said from the stage.
It’s interesting how the Watchtower Society has presented two opposing views on how to deal with children who have gone wrong. Contrast this assembly shunning experience with the video in the link below, where no shunning occurred.
In the Watchtower video “The Prodigal Returns”, we are presented with an upper-middle class family in which two brothers work with their father in a construction business. The family constantly dwells on pleasing Jehovah by spending every possible moment in personal study, attending meetings and going out in field service.
Then, the younger brother decides to pursue a worldly career and his older brother (who would have made a great Nazi) tries to shame his little brother into giving up this idea. The little brother leaves home, goes to the big city and ends up wallowing in sin and degradation.
Once the younger brother realizes his mistake, he returns home to the open arms of his parents and his congregation. All is forgiven — except by the older brother who feels resentment because his father has lavished affection on the younger brother who sinned and ignored the older brother’s total submission to Watchtower proclamations.
Finally, the family in the video, who did not shun their child, is reunited and they all live happily ever after — just like the assembly family who did shun their child. Now we have two Watchtower approved methods which can be used to bring prodigals back into the fold.
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/videos/prodigal-son-returns/#?insight%5Bsearch_id%5D=0364613b-4340-4aec-90a7-193f31ddf17d&insight%5Bsearch_result_index%5D=0
What a Joke these people have come really completely delusional. And when you become that way then you become psychotic in nature eventually. Your living in a altered reality without any regard for your actions upon your own flesh and blood. These are mentally sick people devoting their life to men and not the God of the bible
What do you all think? Are the seven guys making the calls in NY simply indoctrinated coupled with not very thoughtful and thorough in their reflections or are they completely aware of the farce they have continued? Are they simply models and heirs of indoctrination trying to save people and their families from armageddon? Do they truly and honestly believe they are being moved along and used by a god? I would think that before I could believe my actions and thoughts were being inspired by god I would have to be clearly and completely mentally sick. But, indoctrination is a very strong strong force. I cant decide. In the lightest brightest terms i would call the men “irresponsible” and “thoughtless” and at worst, “monsters” and disgusting immoral garbage.
@Vivian, my personal opinion is that Lett thinks he is in the “truth” because of the way he gestures when he gives his speeches. It’s like he’s using every point on the speech counsel slip that we got at the Ministry School when we were giving talks and being counseled but the others don’t seem to care about gestures etc. I think if Lett realized he was caught up in a huge scam, he wouldn’t care about getting G’s on his speech counsel slip.
When Losch gives his talks, he reads them and he is always referencing the Watchtower and rarely references the Bible. He says it like this: “The Watchtower says this and the Watchtower says that”. I think Losch is not stupid and realizes it’s a scam but doesn’t know how to disillusion 8 million people with coming out and telling the truth and basically destroying all their hopes and dreams and admitting to the world that they had devoted their lives to nothing and even lost lives due to blood. If that is what has happened to these men, then to me, that would have to be the worst position to be in because it would mean that they really do have a conscience but are caught in a trap they can’t get out of.
David Splane I think knows it is a scam and doesn’t know how to escape. When he gives talks, he seems like he’s in some kind of agony with worry written all over his face.
Sam Herd (with his gold watches) seems to me to know it’s a scam but will take it if it means power and prestige and doesn’t care about the rank and file.
The rest, it seems like to me, are like non thinking ostriches with their heads buried in the sand rather than face reality (big bodies and small brains).
My old Kingdom Hall is full of ostriches and I was one of them until about a year ago so I know how it happens. It happened to the best of us.
If I had a conscience and had any doubts at all and I was one of the Governing Body members, I’d be so torn, that I don’t know how I could live through it without quitting like Ray Franz did.
That is what makes me wonder if they have consciences or not or are just so worried about what it would do to 8 million people to find out it is all a scam.
Maybe they can’t even tell their own wives about any of their doubts because they are too afraid to. They can’t confide in anybody either, just like the rest of us can’t.
I can’t think of a more hideous situation to be put into.
Yes i agree it would be a terrible place to be in if you began to doubt/ saw the facade once you were at the top. If they were to topple the organization, dismantle it, what would happen to all these older ones that have given their lives and hopes and futures to the org. Some bad stuff would happen.
Hello Lloyd I hope you don’t mind me using your first name.
If you haven’t (which I doubt) have a read of Ray Franz
In Search of Christian Freedom, Ch10 Sheperds of the Flock and Ch11 The Misuse of Disfellowshipping I recommend it to everybody who read your last blog.
Thank you for this site and your courage.
Mike Sydney Australia
This is the idiot organization my cousin seeks to follow. To what levels of depravity these JW’s have to go to for him to open his eyes. Curiously he has never considered that by his own standards , his father should have called my cousin apostate(He is Hindu) and kicked my cousin out of his life.
Thank you for the latest post/video and all of the work that you do, Cedars. This is a painful and difficult subject and you are adept at handling such with honesty, insight, and compassion.
There have already been many beautiful and heartfelt comments posted. Not much I can add but one perspective:
As a person who was disfellowshipped, I felt for many years the guilt and shame borne out of the belief that my family and Organization had the “moral high ground”. I no longer hold to that illusion and neither should anyone else out there who has been kicked out (or walked out), shunned, rejected, and discarded.
One important thing to note is that the people in this video, like many other JWs (including my family), are not basing this decision (and other decisions) on an evaluation of moral tenets but in following orders of their religion and leaders. They have been indoctrinated to relinquish their ability to think for themselves and instead of exercising their moral agency they simply fall back to “just following orders”. This, arguably, is an amoral stance. Part of me has some compassion for them. But, history will not be as kind. Modern society has come to understand that “just following orders” is indefensible.
I noticed a number of posts by people who stay in so as to avoid being shunned. My heart goes out to all of them. I cannot and will not speak for them or their circumstances but, as for me, I no longer feel compelled to hold on to my family. In 30 years, the only time they contacted me is when they wanted money or something else. Their love is conditional. Their currency is shame and guilt. They happily and mindlessly adhere to the rules and use love as leverage. I have no need of that and, frankly, I refuse to negotiate with extortionists. What I gave up I have more than gained. There are better people just about everywhere else.
My family,well,the ones left in the cult,are cherry pickers as well.They pick and choose which parts of the bible suits them at any particular time.Incredibly greedy and parasitic,none of them have real jobs,they just wait till a family member dies,and then they go to court to see what they can get.Often times,the more immediate family members of the deceased,are still in shock about the death,and are not really even willing to fight.Therefore,its a win for the vultures.
To StrongHaiku,
That was an incredible post. Couldn’t have said it better.
And what about kids that completely shun their elderly parents?
That’s even more pathetic.
That is what is happening to us.
I feel sure even those from ISIS don’t do that t their parents or to their children.
THis is truly an evil cult masquerading for the true religion.
Gameisover is correct. An evil cult masquerading for the true religion. The only ones who can’t see that are the JWs themselves. But there is hope. Many of us were there once and we came through!!!
JF Rutherford put it right when he referred to his “religion as a racket & a snare”
Great Article
Recently an elder called me asking for a report because the Co was coming. I asked him if that is all he cares abt, a report not the reporter. I had not appeared for some time at the meetings. I told him, He just made me realise that they really loved me.
He laughed, I knew he’d not understood me. I hung up. He immediately called back still asking for the report & explained how it was important to update my card before the co visit. I told him I never preached. He then told me to get serious. I told him I loved him & feel the love.
What am saying is that nobody cares abt your wellbeing @ the kh, all they care abt is how active you’re in their activities.
Same thing happened to our family about 3 years ago right when we started to fade. An elder called us to get our time since we hadn’t turned it in for several months (we hadn’t preached, and had been to maybe 2-3 meetings in several months). The CO was coming that week. We told him we had no time to turn in. He said he’d put us down for an hour for each month – surely we’d mentioned the truth to someone – we said no we had not – not sure what he did – but he would rather lie about our time than ask us what our issues were.
I just brought myself to watch the video while trying to be as objective as possible about what was being said. All i can say is the demonstration was totally scripted and staged and not from the heart. mmmm i wonder why DuH! Those parents should be ashamed of themselves and put in a mental institution for the atrocities they have brought upon their children.
Stepford brainwashed people. Im happy the son rebelled and its only a matter of time when he gets stronger and smarter and leaves for GOOD!
So,please help me to understand.The children are taught to think,they go out and see the world,and when they come up with ideas that vary from their parent’s religion,they are shunned? Not able to speak to the rest of the family that is still in the church?How is this love?What is the incentive to ‘come back to the fold”? Its blackmail,isnt it?
@Beige Delfuego, JW kids are not taught to think. They are taught to believe JW dogma and only JW dogma and if they do start to think and start wanting solid evidence like how do we prove that Jerusalem was not destroyed in 586-587 B.C.E., they will be told to “wait on Jehovah” and if the Society is wrong that the Society will change the doctrine that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C.
The problem is that the Society has been proven wrong in many areas and since those teachings are essential to the religion living or dying, the Society will never change those core beliefs.
If a child gets baptized (shamed into it, if they don’t want to do it on their own at a very early age), then once they start to question core beliefs and want solid answers after being baptized (which they won’t get any answers that make any sense because those core beliefs are all man-made doctrines and not Bible based) the child has to make a decision: Either stay in the religion and go along to get along or start wanting answers (which they won’t get and told to “wait on Jehovah and finally realizing they have been scammed) or fade (considered weak and bad association but can still be talked to) or disassociate (write a letter which then determines that they are disfellowshippng themselves and shunned as bad association).
No matter how you slice it, children are coerced and tricked into getting baptized at an early age and can only associate with other Witness kids while they are under their parents’ roof so they aren’t allowed to make friends outside of the religion and so when they leave the religion and they have been baptized, they face a life of being shunned. Children or even adult Bible studies are never told anything except what the Watchtower wants them to see so they never hear anything else except good things about the JW religion and never anything bad. The Watchtower counts on children and any Bible study being ignorant about the Bible and they are all ignorant about the real history of the Watchtower organization before getting baptized.
Nobody in the religion is allowed to go onto so-called “apostate” web sites or read any literature that is critical of the Society. If they do read literature or do go onto “apostate” web sites and find out about all the lies and cover-ups, they are not allowed to tell anybody about it (even people outside the religion) or they will be called before a committee and disfellowshipped for apostasy if it has been found out what they talked about it to anybody.
What the Society will tell the person is that they brought “reproach” on Jehovah but what they really mean is that they cast dispersions on the Watchtower religion.
The Witnesses have been led to believe that God is the Organization and speaks through the organization and that if they do anything to make the Society look bad that they are bringing reproach on God, which is like the worst sin of all because they really do believe that God is directing the Organization.
All people who study with Jehovah’s Witnesses are taught early on that God owns them and own the world and made their life possible and they owe their life to God and so whatever God asks of them, they have to do and that includes putting God first in their lives. Bible studies are told early on that God comes before family members and friends.
If they had any friends before becoming a Witness, they are told that those old friends and relatives will want them to disown the religion and persecute them until they stop “studying” and Satan is using those people to draw them away from the “truth” and so paranoia sets in right away and so they either disown all their old friends and relatives, or bring them into the “truth” too so that they can all live together and live through Armageddon together into the “new world”.
If Witnesses don’t try and “witness” to all those old friends and relatives, then the Witness is made to feel guilty that they don’t care enough about those people to witness to them and so that is why some Witnesses make pests of themselves at any get together they may have with relatives or friends. They actually think if they don’t “witness” to those people that they are signing their death warrants at Armageddon.
Most Witnesses think that and it takes months and months of being out of the religion before those feelings go away but it’s web sites like this is what helps people to realize that those fears of Armageddon is no different than any other religion that uses the fear of being burned in hell is what keeps most people belonging to other religions as well. It’s either the fear of burning in hell or being killed at Armageddon. It’s just a evil cult tactic to keep people tied to a certain religion.
I have always found it telling (while a believer I found it strange) how the shunning practice is supposed to work.
Why do they return to jehovah? Is it because they love him? No. Is it because they love the organization? No. The bible? No. Is it even because they learn their lesson? No. It’s because they miss their family! They even freely admit this is the reason and they never seem to notice that this in no way is an indicator that they learned any lesson or changed anything for any “good” reason. They just missed their family.
Or would think this fact being freely admitted in front of thousands at a time would cause some sort of dissonance.
Just the fact that they only miss their family is the reason they come back should tell you in the first place that they really don’t care about the religion to begin with. Many have gone stealth and faded out and some avoid being tracked down by the elder police so as not to be disfellowshipped. I have heard of cases of elders disfellowshipping individuals just on hearsay without them ever being present at a judicial meeting. You don’t even have to say anything. These higher ups will do what they want and how they want irregardless of what the Bible really says. They are Grandmasters at being illusionists.
There is something really odd about Brenda Sutton in the video. If you maximize the screen and just watch her eyes, she seems scared of her husband or else very insecure about herself the way she keeps looking up at him and fiddling with her notes and he never looks at her at all. He seems proud of himself but not his wife. I see a woman who isn’t happy with her life at all.
Spot on observation about the wife. They were both very nervous trying to deliver their not from the heart experience but rather a scripted demonstration. Hopefully one day they may look back when it all falls apart for them and they wake up and realize what a fool they made of themselves in this video. If she was my wife I might not look at her much either. Not a very secure person for sure. They may love their child but obviously in a limited capacity if you are willing to give it up for a manmade religion to begin with.
It’s exactly this kind of exposure, to the media and the uninitiated public, of material intended solely for an uncritical, worshipful audience will ultimately prove their undoing. What’s being said and practiced in the darkened corners of Watchtowerland is dragged into the blinding glare of daylight.
Then too, one can’t help but wonder how one who cynically suppresses his misgivings and succumbs to the humiliation and grovelling required for readmittance, cannot bitterly resent (1) the family that insists on it; and (2) the elders and the organization that subject him/her to the humiliation of running their gauntlet of harsh scrutiny.
I was baptized in 1987. I thought at one time there was true Christ like love in the congregations, but it was a dillusion
I thought real friends could be made in the congregation but that too was false
I was having a very hard time paying my gas bill & my apt was 28 degrees inside & outside minus -17. The elders knew I was freezing & you would think someone would try to assist financially within the congregation even take up a collection & I would pay it back NO!!
A wonderful friend of mine Terry Riley paid my bill in full & yes I paid him back & he’s not from the congregation
So where’s the love in the congregation ??????
Lets hope front-line news gets this story and airs it on international TV.