Geoffrey Jackson's appearance before the Royal Commission left many questions unanswered
Geoffrey Jackson’s appearance before the Royal Commission left many questions unanswered

If you are one of the many current and former Jehovah’s Witnesses who spent much of last month glued to your screen watching the Australian Royal Commission into child abuse, likely you are still dumbfounded by the testimony of one person in particular: Governing Body member Geoffrey Jackson.

Senior Watchtower officials did their very best to stop Jackson from appearing, dismissing his relevance to the commission and insinuating that he was only involved in “translation.” Their efforts at insulating their leader drew the ire of Senior Council Angus Stewart, who accused Australian branch coordinator Terrence O’Brien of deliberately trying to mislead the commission over Jackson’s role.

Finally the commission saw through the shenanigans and Jackson was faced with an official summons to appear – a summons carrying legal ramifications if he failed to show. In the end, despite being in Australia (to tend to his sick father), Jackson opted to give his appearance by video link – to the disappointment of many who would have like to have seen him appear in person.

Wearing a dark three-piece suit and stripey tie, and seated at a table in what appeared to be an office conference room, Jackson had an air of confidence about him. He addressed the judge and senior council respectfully, but any humility seemed strained – especially in the context of some of the more defiant and pious expressions that were to follow.

Overall, Jackson’s testimony was a masterclass in evading the torrent of difficult questions unleashed upon him. Angus Stewart and Judge McClellan bombarded him with topics as diverse as corporal punishment, the two witness rule, the role of women, and shunning.

Jackson ducked and swerved any difficult, potentially incriminating questions with the finesse of an Aussie-rules footballer, albeit without possessing the corresponding physique. “That’s not my field” became his default retort, and if he didn’t like the question he wasn’t above modifying it in his answer. Even outright lies were deployed by the Governing Body member in his eagerness to get past the full-time whistle unscathed.

It’s difficult to do justice to the full day-long exchange, but I have taken the liberty of compiling a handy list of 12 key pieces of testimony given by Jackson that were either unusual, revealing, or downright misleading.

If you would like to examine Geoffrey Jackson’s testimony for yourself, you can do so in PDF form on this link, or using the video playlist at the foot of this article.

1. Ordinary Jehovah’s Witnesses can now officially acknowledge the problem of child abuse (at least in theory)

01 Jackson

As recently as February, Jackson’s co-Governing Body member Stephen Lett dismissed criticism of the organization’s child abuse record as “apostate-driven lies and dishonesties.” The morning worship video in which these comments were made was responded to by yours truly in the following YouTube video (skip to 03:10 to see Lett’s comments)…

As I commented at the time, rather than being “lies and dishonesties” the criticism of Watchtower’s child abuse mishandling was fully warranted, not least by the multi-million dollar judgments in both the Candace Conti and Jose Lopez verdicts of 2012 and 2014 respectively.

Still more recently, another Governing Body member, Tony Morris, indulged in an extraordinary rant on the issue of child abuse in the July 2015 JW Broadcasting episode. Not only did Morris attempt to scapegoat gay people as culpable for child molestation – he also claimed that the organization was proud of its reputation regarding child abuse and were even ahead of the game in that issue compared to the “somewhat naive” secular authorities.

Little over a month later, and under serious questioning by the senior council of a Royal Commission, Morris’ colleague Geoffrey Jackson sang an entirely different tune (bold is mine)…

Stewart: Do you recognise, Mr Jackson ‐ and in asking this question, let me make it clear, I’m not suggesting it is peculiar to the Jehovah’s Witness organisation, there are many, many organisations in this position ‐ but do you accept that the Jehovah’s Witness organisation has a problem with child abuse amongst its members?
Jackson: I accept that child abuse is a problem right throughout the community and it’s something that we’ve had to deal with as well.

Stewart: Do you accept that the manner in which your organisation has dealt with allegations of child sexual abuse has also presented problems?
Jackson: There have been changes in policies over the last 20 or 30 years, where we’ve tried to address some of those problem areas, and by the fact that they have changed the policy would indicate that the original policies weren’t perfect.

Stewart: And you accept, of course, that your organisation, including people in positions of responsibility, like elders, is not immune from the problem of child sexual abuse?
Jackson: That appears to be the case.

So there you have it. Jehovah’s Witnesses can now officially speak openly about their religion having a problem with child sexual abuse because, according to a member of the Governing Body, “that appears to be the case.”

Of course, whether there would be judicial ramifications anyway for speaking openly about child abuse in such an Orwellian organization is another matter entirely. Don’t expect “but Geoffrey Jackson said it’s true” to be a bullet-proof defense if you find yourself bundled into a backroom by the elders for mentioning the child abuse problem in a comment at the kingdom hall.

Stewart then went on to ask Jackson a line of questions that seemed expressly designed to counter the preposterous “apostate-driven lies and dishonesties” claim by Stephen Lett…

Stewart: Do you accept, Mr Jackson, that many of the efforts that are being made by different people and organisations to highlight the issue of child sexual abuse and try and find solutions are genuine efforts to improve the situation?
Jackson: I do accept that, and that’s why I’m happy to testify.

Stewart: And that such efforts are not necessarily an attack on your organisation or its system of beliefs?
Jackson: We understand that, too.

Stewart: You described earlier in your testimony that the work of this Royal Commission is beneficial. Do you accept, then, that the Royal Commission’s efforts are genuine and well‐intentioned?
Jackson: I certainly do. And that’s why we came in to the Royal Commission hoping that collectively something would come forward that would help us as well as everybody else.

Stewart: Would you disagree, then, with anyone who said that the efforts to highlight and deal with child sexual abuse in the Jehovah’s Witness church are engaging in apostate lies?
Jackson: I guess that’s a broad question, because sometimes those who make these accusations make many other accusations as well. But let me assure you, the person making the accusation is not the main thing. The main thing is: is there some basis to the accusation. And if there is some way that we could improve, the Governing Body is always interested in seeing how we can refine our policies. You see, Mr Stewart, could I just emphasise, as a religion, two very strong things we feel. One is, we try to keep a high moral standard. Secondly, there is love among the organisation. So we want to treat victims in a loving way.

That last response from Jackson was a typical example of his evasive tactics whenever an awkward question was put to him. Stewart’s question about apostate lies was direct and relevant, and answerable with a simple “yes” or “no.” But, knowing full well a “yes” OR “no” would be incriminating in different ways, Jackson dismissed the question itself as “broad” and spewed bluster about “many other accusations” leveled by apostates that clearly had nothing to do with the question.

Stewart wasn’t asking for Jackson to comment on his general observations about apostates, he was asking whether he believed scrutiny of child abuse within the organization by itself was tantamount to apostasy. As regards THAT specific question, no real answer was forthcoming. Jackson merely self-congratulated the Governing Body for its eagerness to refine its policies, uphold a “high moral standard,” and “treat victims in a loving way.”

Such fobbing off of an important question with pure bluster may get a politician through an awkward interview with a journalist, but Jackson was giving testimony on behalf of the Governing Body before a Judge at a Royal Commission. His sloppy tap dancing around difficult questions in such a serious forum will not have gone unnoticed, as I will highlight again later.

2. Jehovah’s Witnesses AREN’T allowed to spank their kids

02 Jackson

Like many who were raised as Witnesses I was spanked by my parents (using a belt, as I recall), and this spanking was ALWAYS justified on religious grounds using the bible and Watchtower publications.

So you can imagine my astonishment (no doubt shared by many current and former Witnesses) when Jackson repeatedly denied that Witnesses endorse corporal punishment. (Corporal punishment is defined by one dictionary as a “punishment administered by an adult (as a parent or a teacher) to the body of a child ranging in severity from a slap to a spanking.”)

The following are quotes from Watchtower publications that are at least permissive of corporal punishment, if not openly endorsing it (bold is mine)…

“Of course, children are children, and some are prone to be contrary, even wayward. (Genesis 8:21) What can parents do? ‘Foolishness is tied up with the heart of a boy; the rod of discipline is what will remove it far from him,’ says the Bible. (Proverbs 22:15) Some view this as harsh treatment that is out-of-date. Actually, the Bible is against violence and abuse of any sort. The ‘rod,’ though at times literal, represents parental authority that is administered firmly but lovingly and appropriately out of concern for the children’s eternal welfare.—Hebrews 12:7-11.” – w06 4/1 pp. 9-10

“Different children require different kinds of discipline. Some are not ‘corrected by mere words.’ For them, the occasional punishment administered for disobedience may be lifesaving. (Proverbs 17:10; 23:13, 14; 29:19) A child, though, should understand why he is being punished. ‘The rod and reproof are what give wisdom.’ (Proverbs 29:15; Job 6:24) Moreover, punishment has boundaries. ‘I shall have to chastise you to the proper degree,’ said Jehovah to his people. (Jeremiah 46:28b) The Bible in no way endorses angry whippings or severe beatings, which bruise and even injure a child.—Proverbs 16:32.” – “Family Happiness” book (1996), page 60

Certainly it must be acknowledged that some of the sentiments in more recent publications to the effect that “not all children need physical punishment” (w06 11/1 p.5) might be construed as a U-turn from past instructions on the matter, at least in part. A footnote to the 2002 Draw Close to Jehovah book even says: “Similarly, ‘the rod’ of parental authority suggests loving guidance, not harsh or brutal punishment.” (p.101)

But a specific, unequivocal condemnation of corporal punishment as archaic, outdated and abusive by Watchtower has yet to appear in print. A full printed retraction on the matter would be appropriate, especially given past guidance such as the following…

“There are times, of course, when every child needs discipline, even with the literal rod, but this should be done—and not overdone—firmly and in love, without displaying the heat of anger. Children will come to appreciate deserved chastisement, and it will not ‘exasperate’ them. They will appreciate, too, the kindness and loving care that they receive at other times.” – “Good News to Make You Happy” (1976), p166

3. The Governing Body MIGHT not be Jehovah’s only spokespersons

hotline-god

Especially since they declared themselves to be the faithful slave in 2012, the Governing Body CLEARLY believe themselves to be God’s sole spokespersons or “channel,” as stated explicitly in published statements like the following (bold is mine)…

“Even as Bible prophecy pointed forward to the Messiah, it also directs us to the close-knit body of anointed Christian Witnesses that now serve as the faithful and discreet slave. It helps us to understand the Word of God. All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the ‘greatly diversified wisdom of God’ can become known only through Jehovah’s channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave.—John 6:68.” – w94 10/1 p.8

And yet, when confronted with Angus Stewart’s blunt question “Do you see yourselves as Jehovah God’s spokespeople on earth?” the answer that came from Jackson’s lips was astounding.

That I think would seem to be quite presumptuous to say that we are the only spokesperson that God is using. The scriptures clearly show that someone can act in harmony with God’s spirit in giving comfort and help in the congregations, but if I could just clarify a little, going back to Matthew 24, clearly, Jesus said that in the last days ‐ and Jehovah’s Witnesses believe these are the last days ‐ there would be a slave, a group of persons who would have responsibility to care for the spiritual food. So in
that respect, we view ourselves as trying to fulfill that role.”

Jackson thus answered the question by changing it, and not for the first time during his testimony. The question was NOT “do you think you are the only ones being used by God’s spirit?” The question deliberately highlighted the role of God’s “spokesperson,” or channel of communication. It had nothing to do with, say, an ordinary publisher offering comfort and help in the congregation.

Jackson’s answer was, therefore, another attempt at ducking a question where an honest answer would have made him look foolish and deluded.

4. A ‘worldly’ lawyer can beat a Governing Body member in a scripture duel

03 Jackson

One of the most delightful and unexpected exchanges between Angus Stewart and Geoffrey Jackson arose from the former’s attempts to persuade the latter that there IS a scriptural basis for discarding the two witness rule as it relates to child sex abuse. The fascinating conversation is captured in the video below…

Simply put, Stewart correctly argued that child sex abuse amounts to rape, and because according to Deuteronomy 22:23-27 a rape victim who is attacked without witnesses in a field is to STILL see her attacker brought to justice (despite apparently being the only witness to the attack), therefore the same precedent could be applied to child sex abuse.

After considerable bluster about “circumstances,” again apparently aimed at obscuring the question, Jackson conceded that one witness was sufficient for a rapist to be stoned to death.

With predatory precision, Stewart then moved in for the kill.

“Is it not the case that had Jesus been asked about a case of sexual abuse, he may have referred back to this part of Deuteronomy and said that it’s not required to have two witnesses?”

Jackson could only reply: “I certainly would like to ask Jesus that, and I can’t at the moment, I hope to in the future. But that’s a hypothetical question which, if we had an answer, then we could support what you said.”

Subsequent to this exchange, Jackson submitted a written testimony to the commission effectively backtracking on everything he’d conceded on this point. Apparently Jackson no longer wants to ask Jesus about the question in the future, because “new light” has furnished him with the answer in record time.

According to Jackson’s written explanation, the two witness rule overrides the rape provision in Deuteronomy. And in any case, the rapist described would have already had his guilt established without the woman’s testimony. Essentially, Jackson trusts that the rapist would have given a full confession to elders of raping the woman in the field, despite facing the penalty of death by stoning for doing so.

Dubious and desperate reasoning aside, history will show that Angus Stewart gifted a Governing Body member with an opportunity to biblically justify scrapping the shameful two witness rule in relation to child abuse. And instead of seizing this gilt-edged opportunity to protect children, for reasons best known to him, Jackson bent over backwards to reject it.

5. A Governing Body member fails to deny that shunning is cruel

shunning2

A long and rather arduous exchange ensued from Angus Stewart’s brave attempts to pin Geoffrey Jackson down on the issue of shunning. As I have previously pointed out, you would think if shunning is a divine command from Jehovah himself Watchtower representatives, including Governing Body members, would leap at any chance to declare their glowing pride at the policy. Instead they do their level best to misrepresent it, or deny it altogether.

Jackson pursued just such an approach, this time by again attempting to cloud the issue. Fortunately, Stewart had done his homework on the matter and refused to be sidetracked. “I have chosen my words deliberately, Mr Jackson,” said Stewart with an air of exasperation at one such attempt to switch the subject of the question from disassociated ones to inactive ones.

Finally, after a lengthy exchange involving various hypothetical scenarios, Jackson had given Stewart enough rope to hang him with.

Stewart: Mr Jackson, you have put it that they have a choice to leave or not to leave. For someone who wants to leave, perhaps because they have suffered abuse by someone in the organisation and don’t feel that it has been treated properly or adequately, it’s a very difficult choice, isn’t it, because they must choose ‐‐
Jackson: I agree, yes.

Stewart: And it can be a very cruel choice for them ‐ not so?
Jackson: I agree, it’s a difficult choice.

And so, at the end of a marathon series of questioning, finally an end product of sorts: a Governing Body member failing to deny that the “difficult choice” facing those who wish to leave the organization is a cruel one.

6. Having a Christmas tree won’t necessarily get you disfellowshipped

christmas

In the labyrinth of questions aimed at highlighting the shunning policy, Angus Stewart asked Geoffrey Jackson the following…

So, for example, if they [a Jehovah’s Witness] had become inactive or sought to fade without formally disassociating, and the elders came to visit and found them celebrating Christmas or a birthday, they would be found to be in transgression of the rules, would they not?

Jackson’s answer was remarkable…

That is not my understanding. But again, as I said, it is not my field, that goes into policy with regard to those type of things, but from my personal experience, that’s not the case.

Anybody who knows anything about the Witness faith knows that celebrating Christmas or birthdays is expressly prohibited for Witnesses – a “transgression of the rules” as Stewart carefully phrased it. In fact “celebrating false religious holidays” is clearly listed as a form of apostasy in the Shepherd book and deemed judicially actionable by elders.

As with his earlier obfuscation about corporal punishment, Jackson’s ability to contort the truth so readily rather than take pride in teachings and practices that are supposed to be mandated by God will have been a huge wake-up call for any sincere Witnesses who dared to watch.

7. The Governing Body chooses the Governing Body (not Jesus)

gb-meeting

Hopefully it is rather obvious that the Governing Body chooses itself, or is self-appointed. But according to Watchtower literature the Governing Body is “not appointed by any man. It is appointed by the same one who appointed the twelve apostles in the first century C.E., namely, Jesus Christ the Head of the true Christian congregation and the Lord and Master of the ‘faithful and discreet slave’ class.” (w71 12/15 p.758)

Interestingly, however, nowhere in his testimony did Geoffrey Jackson even try to claim that Jesus appoints the Governing Body members.

Early on in the questioning, Angus Stewart asked: “And is it the case that the Governing Body then appoints new members of the Governing Body?” This would have been the perfect opportunity for Jackson to give a rambling theological lecture to the effect that Jesus is actually the one who does the appointing.

Instead we got a straightforward: “That is correct.”

Thinking Witnesses would do well to ask themselves: If the Governing Body is self-appointed, how does it differ in any meaningful sense from the leaders of other religions? From where does the Governing Body receive its mandate to lead ‘God’s organization’ if the appointments are openly and unashamedly made by men?

8. The Governing Body are “guardians of doctrine”

guardians

Watchtower literature has always taught that the role of the faithful and discreet slave is to provide God’s people with spiritual food “at the proper time.” In 2012 the Governing Body exclusively assumed this responsibility from Matthew 24:45 – verses that many regard as a parable rather than a prophecy.

But repeatedly in his testimony Jackson made a claim that will have sounded strange to the ears of many familiar with Witness teachings, namely that the Governing Body are to be considered the “custodians,” or “guardians,” of doctrine…

  • “So the goal of the Governing Body as custodians of our doctrine is to publish literature that helps people in everyday life using what the Bible says.”
  • “But the qualifications of a member for the Governing Body ‐ it involves someone who is considered an anointed Witness, who has worked in scriptural, with a scriptural background, either as a missionary or a full‐time servant for many years, and is able to fulfil the role of the Governing Body, which is, may I state, a group, a spiritual group of men who are the guardians of our doctrine, and as guardians of the doctrine, look at things that need to be decided based on our doctrines, which are based on the constitution of the Bible.”
  • “What we view ourselves, as fellow workers with our brothers and sisters ‐ we have been given a responsibility to guard or to be guardians of doctrine.”
  • “Ultimately, as guardians of our doctrine and beliefs, yes, some central group needs to make that decision, but that doesn’t mean to say that we are just on our own unilaterally making those decisions without research and input from others.”

It is one thing to print spiritual material based on your interpretation of what is written in the bible, but why this sudden fixation with guarding doctrine? If God has passed down his requirements to humanity in clear and unambiguous form, why do these need to be guarded by a group of men? Couldn’t any group of religious leaders assume such a role for themselves? Why this sudden fixation with protecting established doctrine rather than focusing on principles of love, mercy and grace?

Hopefully I am not the only one who found Jackson’s repeated expressions along these lines rather grating and cultish.

9. The Governing Body doesn’t care about the feelings of child abuse victims

victim2

Justice McClellan entered the fray on a number of occasions during Jackson’s testimony with the seeming intent of getting Jackson to reason on a human level. A good example of this was during a line of questioning about the feelings of female sex abuse victims who are made to give evidence to a committee comprised solely of men.

“Can you understand how a woman might feel when allegations which she brings forward against a man in the congregation are considered and judged entirely by men?” asked McClellan.

Jackson’s response was astonishing.

“Obviously I’m not a woman, so I wouldn’t like to speak on their behalf, but the two of us, I am sure, could understand from what has been expressed and believe that perhaps there would be a hesitancy there.”

And so Jackson washed his hands of the need to empathize with the feelings of women by virtue of the fact that he is not a woman. Only “perhaps” might women be hesitant to bring sex abuse allegations against a man before an all-male tribunal.

Another clue that Jackson is less than preoccupied with concern for the welfare of sex abuse victims can be found in his ignorance of the earlier testimony of BCG.

When asked by BCG’s lawyer whether he’d read her client’s evidence, Jackson replied: “I haven’t, I’m sorry. The reason I came here [to Australia] was to care for my ailing father, and that has taken a lot of my time. Plus, I wasn’t aware of the fact that I would be called before the Commission.”

At first glance this may sound like a reasonable excuse, but a disparity soon emerges when you consider the multiple occasions on which Jackson referred to the previous testimony of his own Watchtower representatives – something he somehow HAD found the time to brush up on despite caring for his father (bold is mine)…

  • “But if I could mention, some of the reports that you have considered are from 25 years ago, and if I understand correctly, from what little I heard of the Commission in the last few days, Mr Spinks very accurately described that there has been more of an awareness of Jehovah’s Witnesses to make sure that any victim who has been a victim of a horrible crime is not required to actually go before three men.”
  • “If I understand your question correctly, from what I have heard from Mr Spinks’ testimony, that is not something that we require now.”
  • “Thank you for the opportunity to explain this. I think very clearly Mr Toole pointed out that if the Australian Government, in all the States, was to make mandatory reporting, it would make it so much easier for us.”
  • “Could I explain, Mr Stewart, that ‐ you see, I think already under testimony some of Jehovah’s Witnesses have explained that the two‐witnesses needed can be, in some cases, the circumstances.”

Therefore, Jackson HAD taken time out to research previous evidence in the commission. He was just very selective about whose evidence he listened to, and seemingly had a preference for brushing up on what Watchtower representatives had to say rather than child abuse victims.

Another telling moment came when BCG’s clearly-exasperated lawyer expressed her dismay at Monica Applewhite’s evidence as paid for by Watchtower, which seems to have been roundly dismissed as one-sided and non-credible by the Commission.

“It is really disheartening for the survivors that evidence from people such as Dr Applewhite, without any reference whatsoever to the victims ‘experience, suggests to them that the reason for engaging experts is… more to do with the reputation of the Jehovah’s Witnesses than any real attempt to get to a deep understanding of their experience.”

In response to what was, again, more of an appeal to his humanity, Jackson replied…

“I certainly hope that is not the case, and that certainly was not the intent of it. So please, be assured that we are interested in the individuals such as the client that you are representing. And may I take this opportunity, I don’t know your client, but please, could you convey an expression of my love and concern and reassure her that obviously she has had an opportunity to speak about how she feels, and hopefully this will help the policies and procedures to improve.”

So, not only had Jackson failed to find time to research the testimony of victims of child abuse within his organization, despite somehow finding time to listen to the testimony of Watchtower representatives Rodney Spinks and Vincent Toole. Jackson had also thrown away an opportunity to show compassion by admitting that the deployment of “expert for hire” Monica Applewhite was in poor taste from the point of view of the victims. And to add insult to injury, he was now issuing instructions to BCG’s lawyer to act as a go-between with her client.

My response, had I been on the receiving end of this request, would have been: “I take instructions from BCG – not you, Mr Jackson. I’m sure if you really care about BCG and her situation, you will find the time and means to convey that message to her yourself in person.”

10. Lots of things are not Geoffrey Jackson’s “field”

09 Jackson

As you’ve probably gathered by now, Jackson used every trick in the book during his testimony to dodge or evade questions where an honest answer would land him in hot water.

Here are a few examples of Jackson repeating the line that a certain subject was “not his field,” or trying to buy time before answering a question…

  • “I would have to check on that, because personally that’s not my field.”
  • “I preface this in the fact that it is not my field that I work with every day…”
  • “Seeing it is not my field per se, I couldn’t give an inclusive answer with regard to that…”
  • “Sorry, you would need to walk me through that a little further. I’m not quite sure.”
  • “I preface this in the fact that it is not my field that I work with every day…”
  • “I am not familiar with the statistics or the general practice…”
  • “That’s a very large question and I think it’s something that we would need to consider carefully.”
  • “That is a possibility, but in all fairness to your question, I think there are circumstances, but I couldn’t make a definitive comment on that.”
  • “You know, your Honour, this is not my field.”
  • “I can’t say that I would give a comment on that…”

On two occasions in particular, frustration over Jackson’s question-dodging antics spilled over.

The most notable of these instances was the previously-discussed exchange regarding Christmas, in which Jackson insinuated that celebrating Christmas wouldn’t necessarily result in a disfellowshipping.

“But again, as I said, it is not my field,” was his disclaimer.

“Mr Jackson,” said Angus Stewart, his frustration obvious, “you say it’s not your field, but you are a member of the Governing Body which is responsible, as you have said, for the whole field, and you have been a member for 10 years, and all the committees are responsible to and accountable to the Governing Body.”

“That is correct,” said Jackson.

“So it is your field, isn’t it?”

“Only as far as approving the basic scriptural principles. So is there a scriptural principle that you have in mind you want to ask me about, or are you talking about policies and implementation of policies? There is a difference there.”

Then, later on, it was Justice McClellan’s turn to be visibly exasperated at Jackson’s stubborn refusal to answer a straightforward question – this time regarding whether Witness women could be involved in the judiciary process even if not in the sentencing (or punishment)…

Justice McClellan: Could women be involved in the determination of whether or not the allegation is true?

Jackson: Well, your Honour, if I could say, I think they already are involved, in the sense ‐‐

Justice McClellan: Not in the decision, Mr Jackson. Please address my question.

Jackson: Okay. But yes, in ‐ well, please, could I just use an example. If an underage child says that something has happened and then two women are involved with helping that person, surely they have to decide whether or not the facts are true. They then present those to the elders. Otherwise, how would the elders know what the facts are?

Justice McClellan: Mr Jackson, you are not dealing with my question.

Jackson: I am sorry. I apologise humbly, your Honour.

Again, we are not talking about journalists or a random member of the public being overly inquisitive. We are talking about a Judge at a specially-appointed Royal Commission charged with uncovering the serious mishandling of child abuse.

Whatever Jackson may privately think of his performance, it is difficult to imagine him leaving a positive impression before the Commission. Indeed, Justice McClellan seemed to have a slight parting dig at him, saying “You are formally excused from your summons” rather than the usual, “you are excused.”

11. (Don’t laugh!) The Governing Body is good at saying sorry

sorry

Yes, apparently the Governing Body are quite accomplished when it comes to apologizing for their mistakes.

When asked by Angus Stewart whether he could foresee the Governing Body ever issuing an apology to survivors of sexual abuse at the hands of elders in the organization, this was Jackson’s response…

“The Governing Body has apologised on other matters, so for me to say ‐ I can’t speak collectively for everybody, but we have apologised on things in the past, in other areas, so it is perceivable.”

If someone could point me in the direction of where these apologies may be found, I would greatly appreciate it. To my knowledge the Governing Body has never apologized once for anything. And in rare instances where it has addressed areas of regret, it has usually found a way of apportioning the blame elsewhere – as was the case with the ‘apology’ for 1975. (w76 7/15 p.441 par.15)

12. Penguins are not found in the middle of Australia

10 Jackson

Ok, so the last one is a bit silly, but you must allow me a bit of a chuckle at Jackson’s rather random penguin comment. It seems remiss to exclude it from the list.

Early in the proceedings, when trying to establish the role and influence of the Governing Body, Angus Stewart asked Jackson whether the Governing Body takes responsibility for organizational manuals and guidelines. The odd way Jackson chose to answer the question came as a surprise.

“We do take spiritual responsibility for it, yes. May I just mention, if there is a printing mistake and we say that penguins are found in the middle of Australia, then, yes, it’s true, we take responsibility, but it’s without not within the realms of our expertise. But we would check to see who it was that had given that wrong information.”

Hopefully Jackson and his fellow dear leaders DO possess sufficient knowledge to question a printed claim that penguins live in Australia without having specific expertise in zoology. That said, given Stephen Lett’s recent claims that there is as much evidence for Christ’s kingdom as there is for “gravity, electricity, wind,” perhaps we need to lower our expectations.

And if only the Governing Body DID take prompt action whenever wrong information is printed in the publications! Mind you, they would have their work cut out fact-checking and issuing corrections for nearly 140 years of false predictions, pseudo-science, medical quackery, doctrinal flip-flops, abusive policies, misquotes, draconian rules and spurious interpretations of scripture – a daunting task if ever there was one.

Perhaps encountering a penguin in the Australian outback is more likely.

 

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Further reading…

Huge thanks go to Vincent Deporter, JWsurvey’s resident artist, for contributing artwork for this article. If you enjoy Vincent’s work, you might be interested in obtaining a copy of “Sacred Cows,” a recent picture book that takes a lighthearted look at religion.

I am in the process of working on video rebuttals to Jackson’s royal commission testimony as a five-part video series. Please subscribe to my YouTube channel for updates when these videos are uploaded.

If you still haven’t watched the footage from the Royal Commission, a playlist of videos is below…

333 thoughts on “12 things we learned from Geoffrey Jackson’s testimony at the Royal Commission

  • September 17, 2015 at 4:35 pm
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    Beautifully said, Ted. Let me shamelessly hitch my wagon to your comment too. The mistreatment and misjudging of the sisters in the congregation ended up being one of the problems with the Org that was hardest for me to stomach. The longtime faithful sisters were consistently the wisest, most compassionate and hard-working members of the congregation. Too many times, they were victims of hurtful interactions with arrogant elders.

    I accompanied an elder on a “shepherding” call once. This dear older sister was so HAPPY to have us there. She began to tell us about some family issues that had been bothering her, but the elder said, “That’s ancient history. We don’t care about that.” Less than a minute later he was saying, “Well tell us, sister– what can we do to help you get out in field service more”? I can still remember the disgust I felt for that man that night. I was an MS being “groomed” for an elder appointment. Not long after that, I lost interest in that prospect and stepped “down”. A year or so later, in a comfortable setting with some trusted friends, that sister asked me if I remembered that visit. I told her I certainly did, and how I felt about it. She then confirmed to me what I had assumed– that it had been a disappointing and painful experience for her.

    At every opportunity, I made it my mission to let the under-appreciated sisters know how precious they were. And, what the heck, I might as well mention that later on, when my health briefly failed and I was homebound, I was one of the best-fed people you have ever known!

    • September 18, 2015 at 12:36 am
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      Good on you for stepping aside. Always a gallant move in a man I think for the sake of principles.

  • September 17, 2015 at 5:12 pm
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    I try not to go to all the meetings, just enough to keep people of my back, but a couple of nites ago a brother giving the bible highlights worked the royal commission into his comments & basically called it all lies, & don’t believe anything on tv or in the newspapers, i wonder if they have been directed to say these things, anyway, it made me sick, as this was the elder i was serving with who hid a letter from the police during a search of the KH, he also stated that from now on the brothers would divulge info to the police!!

    • September 17, 2015 at 6:36 pm
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      Wip it, that’s so disgusting. Sounds like now would be a good time for you to develop a problem with “being around crowds”. And then fade it on outttt…

      • September 17, 2015 at 8:52 pm
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        That’s a great idea and I wish that I had thought of that years ago!
        Just developed a phobia to people and start ‘listening in’ on the phone… Of course you’re not listening in but you can fade away while relaxing at home.

        • September 21, 2015 at 12:31 pm
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          comment?

    • September 28, 2015 at 2:23 am
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      Thats interesting word is sort of getting out there then

  • September 17, 2015 at 5:42 pm
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    J B Reezner, I agree entirely, the sisters are far more spiritual
    than many of the elders. Elders were more concerned about
    F,Service reports and keeping in the COs good books than the
    welfare of the bro, or sis themselves. In fact shepherding
    calls were mostly allocated to ones who missed reporting
    for a while. And one of the many appealing qualities of the
    sisters, as you’ve experienced is, they love to feed you up.
    You can keep the patriarchal institutions for me.
    Best wishes, Ted.

  • September 17, 2015 at 11:24 pm
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    @JBReezner:

    A big YES from me for your comment about our Sisters. It took me many years to let the WT mentality go. In large part, because many of the Sisters in the congregation became my surrogate Mums. I was in Full time service for 10 years, and my own mother was violently opposed to the JWs and my Father’s Eldership.

    I owe these Sisters a Debt of Love. I am no longer be part of the congregation(s) but I will always be indebted.

    Thank you….and, please accept the little tokens of affection I have given since I walked away.

  • September 18, 2015 at 12:38 am
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    Thank you Ted for your comment. I do remember so many many kind sisters and I do also remember how good it was to be in company with some.

  • September 18, 2015 at 4:23 am
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    A superb article with some excellent and heart-rending replies. I am preparing an article in response to the latest Watchtower (Sept.15) on ‘Who are Jehovah’s Witnesses?’ and you have certainly given me a useful insight. They issue the challenge “Would you like to receive truthful answers to your questions about Jehovah’s Witnesses? We encourage you to turn to the most knowledgeable source – Jehovah’s Witnesses themselves…” Now we can honestly do that.

  • September 18, 2015 at 4:54 am
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    An excellent article with some thoughtful replies. The latest Watchtower magazine (Sept.15) poses the question, “Would you like to receive truthful answers to your questions about Jehovah’s Witnesses? We encourage you to turn to the most knowledgeable source – Jehovah’s Witnesses themselves…” Now we can do that with integrity.

  • September 18, 2015 at 8:46 am
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    Watchtower fulfills the prophecy of the Stupid Ones outlined in the Bible.

    They made a vow to God to protect his sheep and they did not pay up. They sacrifice God’s principles for the worldly judicial system and are not aware of what they are doing.

    Watchtower is glorifying dishonor by not taking care of the child abuse that is occurring in their religion. In addition, they are getting beat in the court system due to their stupid ways. They have followers who take pleasure in the empty words.
    Empty words such as the “this generation” prophesy. Where the sheep are once again led astray by another revision of their original prophesy.

    Scriptural proofs:

    Ecclesiastes 5:4 – Whenever you make a vow to God, do not delay to pay it, for he finds no pleasure in the stupid ones. What you vow, pay.
    Ecclesiastes 5:1 – Watch your step whenever you go to the house of the true God; it is better to draw near to listen than to give a sacrifice as the stupid ones do, for they are not aware that what they are doing is bad.
    Proverbs 3:35 – The wise will inherit honor, But the stupid ones glorify dishonor.
    Proverbs 19:29 – Judgment is in store for ridiculers, And beatings for the back of the stupid ones.
    Proverbs 8:5 – You inexperienced ones, learn shrewdness; You stupid ones, acquire an understanding heart.
    Psalm 49:13 – This is the way of the stupid ones And of those who follow them, who take pleasure in their empty words. (Selah)

  • September 18, 2015 at 9:28 am
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    Guardians of doctrine claims Jackson, but are they the
    guardians of “TRUTH “? There’s a massive difference.

    Truth is absolute, it does not change, it cannot be changed.
    Any directions from an omniscient God would be flawless
    from the beginning, and would remain so. They would not
    become an embarrassment at some point in the future and
    need revising or abandoning altogether.

    Expressions such as, “Present Truth,” “New Light” are just
    cunning, devious and wicked deceptions. To perpetuate
    the big deception, the fantastic claim of being God’s
    exclusive channel, the only route to God.

    Doctrine is mans interpretation and subject to change and
    often has little in common with truth. What Jackson & Co,
    fiercely guard is their authority to invent doctrine and have
    it accepted and obeyed.

    • September 19, 2015 at 7:28 pm
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      @Ted I Really like your reasoning on the terminology ‘GUARDIAN of DOCTRINE’ as Interpretation of Doctrine can change at an time!!!
      The point you make about being the ‘Exclusive Channel ‘to God seems by Jacksons comments to Angus Stewart at the Australian Royal Commission that ‘ it would be PRESUMPTUOUS to say the GB were the only SPOKESPERSON for God ??? HMmmm … I wonder if Geoffrey Jackson was playing a little bit of THEOCRATIC WARFARE here??

    • September 28, 2015 at 2:26 am
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      Yep well put

    • September 29, 2015 at 3:04 am
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      The GB, that is the “faithful slave” is doing what they can to preserve the Bible teaching and avoid pagan doctrines to infiltrate into the congregations. I understand that, I am happy about that too. HOWEVER, I also believe that a lot of BS has been fed through the years and all will be revealed in the end.
      Think about this: Jesus said:” “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so! Truly I say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings” So, there you go, the faithful slave will be revealed to be REALLY faitful at the end, when Jesus comes and will appoint them over his belongins. I am not surprise if some of them will not be included as ‘faithful’ for all the damaged they made to individuals, that is …they were not givin proper food at the proper time!!. Therefore my faith is not being attacked, on the contrary I still believe that the GB will answer for the BS they have given us along with the good things they have given us. Brothers and friends, let us focus on the Bible and on personal prayers. The message of the Bible is still there and the Kingdom will come no matter what.

  • September 18, 2015 at 10:36 am
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    I am not sure if asking this question will help my situation, but I would like the groups feedback….Amazon.com has a donation program for charity(Amazon Smile). Any charity of your choice will receive 3% of the any purchase. I wanted to see if WBTS would accept any donation from any purchase and they do, from Halloween costumes to S and M toys. Am I alone in seeing the hypocrisy? Can anyone think of a WT article that resembles the principle of this situation? I asked my spouse if a JW store owner could sell Halloween stuff and he said it would be wrong since they can control what they sell. I see it no different in the above mentioned situation…Your thoughts?

    • September 18, 2015 at 9:25 pm
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      Interesting question, Queen Elsa. Honestly, regarding hypocritically taking money from a source that you speak against and is REPULSIVE to you, I will admit that if the Org wanted to cut me a check for the money I’ve given THEM in my lifetime, I would say “Yes!” so fast it would make your head spin (while never letting up in speaking against them and being repulsed by them). So, if you’re saying that they somehow have a way to tell Amazon to reject a donation if it’s made during the purchase of an “unclean” product, and yet they don’t do that, then yes I’d say there would be some measure of hypocrisy there. I would guess that they’d attempt to explain it away by maybe invoking something like the “meat sacrificed to idols” principle. But, on the list of horrific things they are guilty of, this would probably not rank very high.

      • September 19, 2015 at 12:26 am
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        I don’t see why not, they control every thing in our lives… I think it’s very hypocritical.

        • September 19, 2015 at 8:00 am
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          We’re mainly in agreement. To me, it would just be lower on the totem pole of terrible things they do and have done. I wish you would’ve gotten more replies. It’s a fascinating question and I suspect my opinion may be in the minority on this.

          Pickled brain, where are you!? I need my partner in crime to get in here and give one of your trademark impassioned replies to Queen Elsa on this matter!

          • September 19, 2015 at 9:25 am
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            I’m not surprised at the lack of response. Most of my comments and questions go unnoticed for the most part. I suppose I will have to look elsewhere for what I need….

          • September 19, 2015 at 10:56 pm
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            Queen Elsa Believe me your comments don’t go unnoticed. I just don’t get a chance to comment on them all. I feel sometimes like I’m too much of a chatterbox anyway and try and limit myself. Sorry, if I haven’t commented on your comments so far. Always read your stuff and enjoy what you have to say.

      • September 19, 2015 at 10:26 pm
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        When I first looked into what the Watchtower were up to, at the time, they owned 49% of a company which made top secret ceramic engines for American navy submarines and also the same company made jet fighters. I could not believe my eyes. At the time I just googled Watchtower and that came up.

        After hubby and I told a friend of ours about it, he looked into it. Then he said that he had heard that they had inherited part of that company from a brother who died. Humm, sure, and it just happened to be 49% of the company. This usually entails a company having part ownership but not having more than half the ownership. I heard later that when this was pointed out to them that they decided to sell it off. Sure, they only sold it because they were caught.

        There was also the story how they became NGO’s to the United Nations. From what I remember, someone who was working in the UN building saw the Live Forever Book and noticed how JW’s thought that the UN was the Wild Beast in Revelation. This person told a Witness that the Watchtower people were in the building all the time gathering pictures and information for their publications and they were a registered NGO.

        My husband looked it up for the UN and there it was. Someone else could probably give you better details than that but they were joined to the UN for about 10 years. That is why they knew so much about the UN. They belonged to it.

    • September 19, 2015 at 1:35 pm
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      Dear Queen Elsa,

      Please don’t be put off by your lack of answers to questions. I enjoy your comments. I suppose people don’t know how to answer some questions so they don’t out of lack of confidents.

      I have also had moments of not commenting anymore at times because I thought that I didn’t have a lot to offer.

      Also, sometimes I think that some of us aren’t on for a few days & miss some comments. Whenever I have a spare couple of hours I try to catch up on the ones that I have missed but I feel like it’s too late to comment to some on here who have some absolutely amazing thoughts. It’s hard because I don’t want to distract from the current topic.

      • September 19, 2015 at 2:40 pm
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        @Queen Elsa .PLEASE KEEP COMMENTING!! You Views are VALUED & Yes the DAMNED GB are HYPOCRITICAL in How they take our Donations!! OHhh YES PLEASE Give Me Your Stocks & Shares But you NAUGHTY JWs mustn’t have Premium Bonds or Play the Lottery !! Ermm Excuse me GB ??? But the Stinking STOCK MARKET is the Biggest Lottery & Biggest game of Chance you will ever play!!

      • September 19, 2015 at 2:44 pm
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        @ Grace . Totally agree with your comments. Have other commitments which sometimes precludes me from always looking at this site daily so I might miss some comments so please if I have missed anyone’s comment it is not intentional!! LOVE YOU ALL Even the Negative ones whose comments make GOOD BANTER??

      • September 19, 2015 at 10:04 pm
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        Thanks for your endearing words… I suppose what you wrote would be true if it happened randomly, but it doesn’t, unfortunately. I gave up honestly… Isn’t a comment or question supposed to elicit a response? My voice is silent at home and I do feel captive to watchtower, so I am probably more sensitive to being ignored… However, this site has helped me know I am not alone. It was of my first sites to visit in researching the organization two years ago when the gb claimed themselves as athe fds. I have read every comment on hot topic issues so I respect many on the site… But again, I will have to look elsewhere for my questions and needs…

    • September 19, 2015 at 6:58 pm
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      I’ve only just seen this so for my tuppenceworth I would say they would except it… maybe like laundered monies. well yes pagan things were bought but now the money is clean and given in good will. Yet a brother or sister would not be allowed to work in an establishment that sold… cigarettes etc. I often wondered about how the society would feel about a bro. or sister working in a gun shop! Half of the ones I know own guns.

  • September 18, 2015 at 4:23 pm
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    I come to the site tonight with a heavy and scared heart…I am a coward…I fear being shunned by my children and being viewed with didain by my husband…until 2 years ago my eyes were not totally opened but now they are I have what has been called the freedom of my mind…tonight I learned that an elder in a neighbouring congregation has been disfellowshipped for Apostasy…he made known he did not agree with the holy dates of 607 and 1914 etc etc and has been disfellowshipped…watching my lovely husband imediatly turn into a lip curling and judgmental man scared me…especially when I tried to defend the elder…it was awful and I feel heartsick…I love my husband more than I can say but a little part of that love died tonight and I feel bereft…my heart goes out to everyone in my position..55 years of mind control and 2 years of awakening with the gaping hole of losing everyone I love if I am brave like this man…I hate it all…I feel as if someone close to me has passed away…and I feel a little chip of my love for my husband has gone…and most of all I feel like a coward…its not a nice feeling.

    • September 18, 2015 at 4:37 pm
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      You’re not a coward. You have a lot of love in your heart. That’s why you feel the way you do.

    • September 18, 2015 at 4:37 pm
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      You’re not a coward. You have a lot of love in your heart. That’s why you feel the way you do.

    • September 18, 2015 at 7:33 pm
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      You are not a coward. The cowards are the ones who bully right hearted ones like yourself, with fear and mind control. Don’t loose hope on your husband. Pray that with this situation he may decide to look at the facts. I have found people get angry because they are not convinced themselves and have no better way to defend themselves.

      You have all of us on this site because we are all waking up if we are not already there. x

    • September 18, 2015 at 8:01 pm
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      Idontknowhatodo, you don’t deserve the pain and fear you are feeling, or the predicament you are in. Feeling like a coward is unwarranted. Publicizing your enlightenment to a family full of hard-core believers and executing a hard break from the Org is not always the practical move. One of the most frustrating things about the awakening we’ve experienced is that frequently there is no way to handle it that doesn’t result in pain. Sometimes all we can do is weigh our options and choose the path that leads to the least amount of pain and personal loss. However you choose to handle it, please don’t make things worse by harshly judging yourself. Try to find comfort in knowing that there is a group of people who care about you and can truly relate to what you are going through. When possible, keep participating here with us in order to counteract the feelings of pointlessness that come from participating (even if only socially) at JW meetings and such.

      Having said all that, I’ll add that I’m not pushing one approach over the another. You may snap one day and tell everybody -kids and all- to take that load of easily-disprovable nonsense and stuff it, and that if they really love you, they won’t be told by some organization of men to shun the one person on this earth who loves them the most– this action possibly resulting in a feeling of total relief and freedom, no matter what the other consequences are. It’ll be up to you to do what you think is best. My point is that, no matter how you handle it, go easy on yourself, and remember that you are not alone.

      • September 18, 2015 at 11:20 pm
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        @JB Reezner. VERY WELL REASONED to ‘ idontknowwhattodo’ Also VERY KIND & EMPATHETIC to Anyone Else in the same position not to be too hard on themselves whatever path they decide to take. YOU & Many others here are MORE CHRISTIAN than the Total 7 MEN at BROOKLYN Put Together!!
        Keep up the good commenting!!

        • September 19, 2015 at 12:44 pm
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          Pickled brain, thank you so much. I very much feel the same way about you and the others here as we try to untwist ourselves back in the opposite direction from when we were giving people misguided and potentially harmful advice as JW’s. This site is enjoyable and deeply important.

          Now, if you please, take a swig of Red Bull, pop back up to Queen Elsa’s question, and do what you do best, my friend!

          • September 19, 2015 at 2:50 pm
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            @PB Reezner. Queen Elsa has been duly replied to !!! Also ‘GRACE’ made good comments which I replied to ! That Red Bull is good stuff!!

          • September 19, 2015 at 7:26 pm
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            Yesss! 5 gold stars for YOU, Pickled brain. I knew you wouldn’t let me down, my friend. Your reply was perfect, and I’m sure it would’ve appeared as your time permitted without me having to flash the Pickle-Signal up in the sky. Thanks!

    • September 18, 2015 at 8:10 pm
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      You are being brave and its wonderful to hear that they have not completely taken Gods love from your heart. I am in the very same position, the only difference is that I have and urge to just yell out what I believe and quit. I’ve read through so many experiences of people who do just that or they fade away which is fine. I also believe that over the next few years many, many others will come to know the real truth online and other media, causing the GB to tighten their grip on the friends even more. They will find any given bible passage at all whatsoever and claim that it clearly states Jehovahs will to turn in anyone we even suspect of being an apostate (you can only be one if you speak against God, not the seven samurai in Brooklyn) There will also be new light as to the 607-1914 dates and a great elaborate explanation as to why Jehovah was covering their eyes until the right time, never mind the thousands dissfellowshiped and cursed to destruction for saying it all along. I love the meetings, friends and field service and cannot picture my life without them. I will sit tight finding comfort in knowing the truth, free of the sky is falling pressures of before. Ill be working on another degree and living more of life as I fervently work to spread the truth through my own methods.

      • September 29, 2015 at 3:19 am
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        @ robert67
        I do the same Robert. I love the congregation, the foreign field I serve and the Holy Bible. Obviously I do not have any desire to serve as an elder, because I hate the burocratic crap we get for the GB.
        Robert, stay there in the congregation, read the Bible and preach the ‘good news’. I do not concentrate on the 1914 interpretation and when I was accompanying my wife to her Bible study the other week I had to deal with the 1914. Now what I always say, even in my answers at the KH is:…’the watchtower has interpreted….etc…” In fact it is just an interpretation which may be wrong. I do however fortify my faith with the image of Daniel, we are in the end as there are no more part of the image after the feet that represent a Kingdom. We are indeed waiting for almos a century that stone that will hit the image. Let us concentrate on that and not on the stupid idea of 1914!

    • September 18, 2015 at 11:40 pm
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      @ Idontknowwhattodo. YOU DEAR LADY are MORE CHRISTIAN THAN the WHOLE 7 GOVERNING BODY MEN PUT TOGETHER!! I know EXACTLY how you feel as I am in the same position with my wife Condemning me EVERY time I make a comment in the meetings that is slightly critical of the Doctrine or F&D Slave. IT IS FRIGHTENING when Normally INTELLIGENT People in every other Aspects of Life can BE SO BLINKERED when it comes to HERO WORSHIP of 7 FALLIBLE MEN in BROOKLYN who TIME & AGAIN CHANGE INTERPRETATIONS of SCRIPTURE & SEPARATE FAMILIES JUST for DISAGREEING. ABSOLUTELY EVIL!!

    • September 19, 2015 at 2:04 pm
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      @Idontknowwhattodo, my heart goes out to you and I hate the religion more than I can say too but I don’t put all the blame on the Organization either. I told more than two of the elders from my congregation about 607 and my cousin and also my husband and my kids and only one of my daughters and the mother of a girl I studied with and was getting close to baptism, listened to me but none of those other people care about any “facts” and even refuse to check it out. My husband thinks they gave a “marking” talk about me a couple months ago.

      I don’t know if your husband cared to find out about 607 or not but all those people except for my one daughter and the mother of a girl I studied with, that I tried to tell about it, didn’t care.

      You could tell them about all the pedophiles the Society covers up and all the children still being molested and these people simply don’t care. It isn’t until they personally get shunned for offering their own opinion that differs from the “guardians of the doctrines” that they will realize what they are involved in. Until then, they like having their “reward” in full with the self-satisfaction they get thinking they are an elite group of people, better than anybody living on earth because they think that God arrogantly only speaks to them and uses them exclusively.

      Personally, when I started feeling the preemptive shunning from not going to meetings, I lost all respect for those people. The only reason I don’t disassociate is so that I can still talk to my kids too. It’s not cowardice. It’s called being in a prison we can’t get out of.

      The best thing that can happen is for the Society to be exposed and little by little and it will happen sooner or later (hopefully sooner). When Armageddon hasn’t happened in 20 or 30 years, maybe then, people will realize that they were “had” and if not, then if they want to be that stupid and gullible, then I feel let them and I don’t pity them. If they look down their noses at me, then I know they are all under brain control just the same as Jim Jones had all his people believing in his “revelations”.

      I think there’s a lot to be said for that elder who was disfellowshipped because he had the “love” for all his captive brothers and sisters to take a stand for the real “truth”. It could be that he was in a position where he didn’t have family in the “truth” that he was going to lose. If that wasn’t the case for me and I was going to fade and still going to meetings, I’d answer at the Watchtower and say something like “and by the way, Jerusalem was destroyed in 587/586 B.C.E. and the Society are lying to you because it destroys their theory about 1914 and get up and walk out and let the chips fall where they may.

      I love that brother for what he did and if those people had love for their “brother”, they would had all stood up for his right to say that without being disfellowshipped for it. His being disfellowshipped for saying that, should tell all his “friends” that they also don’t have a right to speak out when they see something that is an absolute lie. The fact that they didn’t walk out because of what the Society did to that elder, says that they were never his “friends” in the first place. When you analyze it, it can’t hurt to lose something you never had. The realization that they were never your real “friends” in the first place is heart breaking though. I think that is what you are realizing about hour husband now.

      • September 21, 2015 at 5:37 am
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        Whilst I know that there are many who cannot make the break due to family reasons and who sadly are having to endure putting on an act, (or in PBs case working undercover), I know of another former elder and his wife who stood up against the teachings of the GB several years ago.

        After the start of their awakening, for a short while they went against the protocol and when preaching and giving talks they used only the Bible. This was much frowned upon.

        However once they fully realised how they had been duped and that what they were being expected to preach was lies, they could not remain. They believed that remaining associated and silent about the Organisation rendered them “guilty by association”, so they left.

        Happily several others from that congregation awoke to the TTATT at the same time and there was a dramatic “Mass Exodus”.

        Since they left, lies and fabricated stories have been spread through the JW grapevine about them. Former so-called JW friends and active JW family could hardly wait before they cut all association, not even wanting to listen to the real reasons for their leaving. They preferred to believe the fabricated stories.

        Letters were returned unopened and abusive phone-calls were received questioning the Elder, with the phone slammed down in response to his answer. (Funnily enough after one phone-call there was “new light” and what the Elder had said during the phone-call was now “the correct interpretation”. There was no phone-call of apology though).

        Anonymous’s comment was absolutely correct – sadly the love shown by former friends and family was “conditional” and controlled by the Organisation, which is not what true friendship is about.

        I should add that since the “mass exodus” those who left have rebuilt their lives; rejoicing in the freedom from the mind-controlling Organisation, being free to think for themselves and have discovered that there are lovely people who are not JWs and whose love is not conditional; quite the opposite to the picture that the Org paints of “worldly people”.

    • September 19, 2015 at 8:17 pm
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      I love that brother for what he did and if those people had love for their “brother”, they would had all stood up for his right to say that without being disfellowshipped for it. His being disfellowshipped for saying that, should tell all his “friends” that they also don’t have a right to speak out when they see something that is an absolute lie. The fact that they didn’t walk out because of what the Society did to that elder, says that they were never his “friends” in the first place and that is heartbreaking and pathetic.

    • September 19, 2015 at 10:39 pm
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      Idontknowhatodo Take heart. There are a lot here who are in the same predicament as you. I don’t know what the answer is. For me it was hard because like everybody else, I was brainwashed and scared like you wouldn’t believe as I did not know what to do. But it was easy for me because my husband felt the same as me. I do know that prayer is vital especially when you are going through this and especially in regard to your marriage. Miracles are possible. Don’t forget that. When you leave the Watchtower you have to do it carefully as you want to minimise trouble. Although for some, like that elder, he was just out there and wanted it to be known that he thought it was all a load of nonsense. His wife may have felt the same as him. Who knows? Just keep praying about it. At least your husband knows how you feel by what you have already said. Give him time.

    • September 20, 2015 at 1:51 pm
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      Idontknowwhattodo,

      You have my deep sympathy for the pain you are in. Your husband is displaying his cult personality, but his genuine personality, the man you fell in love with, is still there and fighting. I am currently reading “combating cult mind control” by Steven Hassan, and it is helping me understand the terrible gulf between what I see and what my loved one sees. It helps to know why.

      If your situation is making you unwell, please go to your GP and seek professional advice. We all want to help you, but none of us are qualified to offer you anything more than our opinions.

      Peace be with you, Excelsior!

  • September 18, 2015 at 5:14 pm
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    Ted –
    Interesting words from Whacko Jacko, Guardians Of Doctrine – Looks like they have made themselves into G.O.D.s after all!!

    • September 18, 2015 at 7:35 pm
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      I found it funny that they had to go into the ARC (K) Australian Royal Commission (Kommission)

  • September 18, 2015 at 11:51 pm
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    @ TO ALL of YOU WHO COMMENT ON THIS SITE. You all show more COMPASSION & KINDNESS in all your Little Fingers than the 7 Governing Body MEN Have ever shown in their whole Lives ! You are ALL helping So Many Active JWs who secretly read this site. Keep up the good work !!

  • September 19, 2015 at 10:46 am
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    Idontknowhatodo,
    Self doubt afflicts us all sometimes, I’m not sure, but it could be
    an indication that the mental and moral compass is in good
    working order. However I do know that if we let it get a grip,
    it prevents us moving ahead and makes us very unhappy.
    It’s a burden we need to let go.

    Being cautious in a difficult situation, especially one that
    affects family unity, is not cowardice, it’s good sense.

    It’s wonderful that your mind is now free from the oppressive
    cult domination and the guilt that it put on us all. No one can

    take that from us.

    You love your husband, that’s something worth hanging on to,
    and it can help if we bear in mind that he’s a victim of cult
    control also. If we treat our JW relatives with love and
    respect, there can be no reproach on our part.–

    That’s the way I’m trying with my, still in relatives, and with a
    determination not to surrender my freedom of mind.

    All our thoughts are with you, and as one sis recently
    commented, “we’re all in this together.

  • September 19, 2015 at 11:54 am
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    I have just seen the new movie called Spotlight at a local film festival. It is slated for wide release in a month or so.
    Spotlight deals with the Boston Globe’s newspaper team called Spotlight and how they won a Pulizer Prize for exposing the sex abuse scandal inside of the Catholic Church.
    As you watch this excellent movie, you can’t help but draw a lot of parallels to the Jehovah’s Witnesses and what is no doubt going to unfold there! The Catholic Church, under Cardinal Law, enacted some kind of ‘reforms’ in the early 1990’s, that were obviously useless, but the Cardinal continually referred to these changes and how effective they supposedly were, under oath. Reminds me of our own Governing Body and how they think the article they printed a few decades ago was so ahead of its time.
    Anyways, this movie and the publicity that is going along with it, will probably do a lot of good for everyone and it should help expose the JW’s for acting the same way as the Catholics. It’s got Oscar buzz too!

    • September 20, 2015 at 8:03 am
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      Thanks for the heads-up, JJ. I just pulled the preview up and it looks great. On a side note, I’m happy to see Michael Keaton back. He’s an old favorite of mine. Brilliant actor no matter what he does. Really all of the lead actors listed for this movie are superb.

      I hope this important movie does well. If it does, they will surely make more like it. Here’s the preview: https://youtu.be/56jw6tasomc

  • September 19, 2015 at 1:24 pm
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    I just want to say thank you to all who gave me support after my last post…you made me feel that I was not alone…my heart goes out to this elder that spoke out about the lies fed to us…his family apparently are devastated…as the ARCsaid…’there is no dignified way to leave this religion’… yet there is more dignity and humanity in your replies than I have ever felt in my entire life…Thank you…And Thank You Lloyd for this site…dont critisize Lloyd…this is a wonderful place for people in the same situation as me.

    • September 19, 2015 at 7:15 pm
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      @Idontknowwhattodo. VERY BEAUTIFULLY SAID KIND LADY !! LOVELY WORDS!!

  • September 19, 2015 at 3:03 pm
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    Queen Elsa, This may not answer your question, spot on
    but it’s in the Org,= hypocrisy area, Sparlock the Warrior
    Wizard, and various spin offs, stickers etc. can be obtained
    from Argos.

    We know from the DVD the org, produced, that sparlock
    makes JHVH.very sad, and it made little Caleb sad when
    he was guilted into binning it.

    But the org, are very happy to accept the 3% vig, on sales
    just as they are the kids ice cream money,

    Best wishes, Ted.

    • September 19, 2015 at 10:46 pm
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      Ted, I caught that Sparlock thing on Youtube. What a horrible piece of work that is. I could not help the guilt I loaded onto my children when I saw it and how utterly damaging it would be to children. Do they have to be reminded about evil in EVERYTHING they do? For crying out loud, they have to be able to play and pretend. It is all part of being a child and growing up. How burdensome for them.

  • September 19, 2015 at 5:46 pm
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    Hi idontknowhatodo,

    I was fortunate that my husband and I were on the same wavelength and our hearts go out to you. When you gain such freedom of thought we can feel like Jeremiah and want to shout from the roof top. But patience is a virtue. All cars traveling on the highway go at different speeds but still arrive at the same destination. Give your husband and family some time. It certainly took me awhile to accept new thoughts and I’m sure it did you too. They may need time to catch up. A few battles may be lost or perhaps not even fought but you can still win the war. The shrewd one has seen the calamity and conceals himself. There is a time to speak and a time to keep quiet. Jesus said he had many things to tell his disciples but they couldn’t handle it yet. Cliches, maybe. But I think words of wisdom. Your actions are not those of a coward but rather someone with wisdom.

    Best Regards

    • September 19, 2015 at 10:50 pm
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      eyes opened Well said. Especially when you mentioned about a time to speak and a time to keep quiet. Very true.

  • September 19, 2015 at 9:11 pm
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    On a technical note, from the beginning I was having an issue where a few my comments would not post at all. On these occasions, I would paste the comment back into a new window (because I knew to copy the text before I submitted it the first time), change a few words, and then it would successfully post.

    Now, days later, those initial comments have all been released from spam-Tartarus, creating several duplicate comments. Although this will make me look like an insane person to anyone going back to check for new comments on previous pages, I am still happy, Lloyd, to have been released from the clutches of your sadistically unpredictable comment-killing “capriciously malevolent bully” of a spam filter. Thanks!

    …and then none of you ever heard from me again…

    • September 20, 2015 at 3:35 pm
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      That last part was a joke meaning that Lloyd’s spam filter would come alive and kill me in my sleep. Nothing serious meant. But I’m sure that was obvious, lol.

      • September 20, 2015 at 3:50 pm
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        JB Reezner I didn’t know if you were writing in your sleep or what? The mind boggles. All I know is I had a good chuckle over it and that’s good right now.

        • September 20, 2015 at 4:28 pm
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          Well I’m glad to hear that, Meredith J! I’m afraid there are some persistent gremlins (probably mostly in my own brain) hampering my ability to post without running into the occasional soul-crushing technical snag. John is helping me with it, and I thanked him by lashing out like a cornered spider monkey. Hopefully, he forgives me. Anyway, I’m trying to not give up. This site has quickly become a very important source of encouragement to me, and a nice little extended family, if I dare say so. This is a good thing. I give myself MAYBE another week before I completely screw it up…

          • September 21, 2015 at 7:59 am
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            …that joke was about messing good things up for myself, which I have been known to do. Just disregard this whole little block of comments, folks, lol. I’ve been in a weird mood, but I’m snapping out of it. Thanks again to John Hoyle for helping me with some technical issues.

  • September 20, 2015 at 12:10 am
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    Maybe it is my still indoctrinated self from childhood talking, but I don’t and probably never will understand the importance of having a Christmas Tree. Though I am confused about what I am SUPPOSED to believe, I still feel that Christianity is about walking in Christ’s footsteps by imitating his example. I don’t see Christ with any narcissistic tendencies to want to celebrate the day he was born. He clearly only said to “Keep doing this in remembrance of me” referring to the last evening meal. Then again that is what the Bible says, which is supposedly inspired by God, yet for some reason all the books of the Bible were not included, which is entirely a different subject. But when you look at the Christmas tree you have to know that the origins came from the Germanic tribes which worshiped many gods including the god of the trees. Just like Ishtar is a deity for fertility that Easter was named after. (I finally found out where the rabbits come in!…smh) Why do anyone continue to make a big deal about celebrating Christmas? Even though I always lived on the “edge” of the congregation due to doubts every since childhood, I still can’t integrate Christmas or Easter into my livelihood because I don’t want to add any more trouble with God after throwing so many years away for not making up my mind earlier to dedicate my life to him. I think the whole Christmas and Easter celebration has more to do with people’s insecurities of not blending in, because as EX JW’s they have been put into very uncomfortable positions for so long that they just want to celebrate it because it’s the norm. I am not trying to be judgmental, I just don’t understand why are these Holidays so important to people to celebrate?
    Is there a religion out there that just worship an Almighty God and will not attempt to take your mind hostage. A religion that says prayers that won’t send me straight to a fiery hell if I don’t act right, or don’t hold the “last days” over my head to scare the heck out of me and keep me looking over my shoulder for the “4 winds of destruction”. (I really did like that picture in the Watchtower though!) I just want to pray with like minded people who aren’t uptight and hiding from the elders when they have a drink and not talk about me when I decide to guzzle a Margarita. My husband happen to be an “Inactive baptised” witness who just don’t go. When he found out I have decided to never go back, he seemed nervous! I think he was waiting for me to go back regularly and than he would be encouraged and follow me. Poor baby! With my husband, it helped because we never even wanted a Christmas Tree or anything of the kind even though we were way out on the outskirts of the Hall.

    • September 20, 2015 at 12:52 am
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      Michelle, when I was a child, which was quite a long time ago I can tell you, the world was not as commercial as it is now. Christmas was actually a celebration of Christ’s birth. The tree and the presents were just part of it all. Mind you, we were always reminded of “the true meaning of Christmas”, even in the media. Giving and having time for others was to be given paramount importance on that day. Also going to church and later spending the day with family was also important.

      Over the years, though it all changed. The commercial world made everyone forget the reason for the celebration. Now of course the world wants us to be totally irreligious. It’s all become politically correct now, so nobody but nobody hardly mentions the reason for celebrating it. The Bible does mention, I forget where that when Jesus would come, many would celebrate his birth. It doesn’t say that there is anything wrong with it. It just states it as a fact. Interpret it how you want but anyway for me personally, I don’t see anything wrong with celebrating the day. I guess it is all open to interpretation. If you have been a Witness all your life then I can undertand your trepidation, but I wouldn’t be getting all scared about it, like the Watchtower made us feel. I used to hate the way I had to not visit my family, who were not Witnesses on that day when everyone around me was celebrating. I just felt like a wet blanket. That’s Meredith’s feelings on the matter.

      • September 21, 2015 at 3:40 pm
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        Michele,

        I have thought about that too re; christmas being a big deal. Having been brought up a catholic, I had that as part of our family tradition for the first half of my life. My family is large & my parents hated the materialistic side of it, they just wanted the family to come together. It was the only time that everyone had off so it worked well for that. It was always so exciting to lead up to because everyone would come in from all over the country to stay at our humble country farm. It was a week of just being together with grandparent, siblings, grandchildren & often our friends that loved staying with us.

        So my point is that, not all non-jw’s see it as a time to be ritualistic with the tree etc but a time to spend with each other. The thing that makes the WT so hypocritical is that they will cherry pick other pagan things to celebrate & say that it doesn’t mean the same as it did back then.

        Just about everything we have has pagan roots. E.g. weddings, rings, virgin mother, son of god, days of the week, months, Sunday worship. I could go on & on but there are too many to mention. I think the Society just used those particular holidays because those celebrations are world renowned & to not get involved made their point of difference like any company does to highlight themselves.

        For years my congregation used to have a traditional annual, “congregation-get-together” every Christmas day with either a bbq or party on Christmas night but justified it by saying that it was different because we know it’s not Jesus’ birthday. An Elders wife said to me that the congregation do it because it’s the only time of year that everyone has off. How does that not make them any different to the world?

        I suppose what I’m saying is that when you have very little to participate in as a witness, this is just another thing that they have taken away & if families come together then it should be a good thing no matter what the root cause is. The Society just likes to keep that little wedge between families to keep control.

        • September 22, 2015 at 2:39 pm
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          @Grace . I like your Logic & Reasoning!! Always Really Good!

  • September 20, 2015 at 1:03 am
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    @ Lee ELVIN. I am just warming up LEE ! You Seem to like DEBATING on this SITE. You couldn’t DEBATE FREELY like this in the KINGDOM HALL you would be REPROVED! Great to have FREEDOM of EXPRESSION without FEAR of SHUNNING or DISFELLOWSHIPPING !!!

  • September 20, 2015 at 8:03 am
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    Meredith J,
    I too regret the guilt I piled onto my kids, and how they missed
    Out on a normal childhood. Never a Birthday party, having to
    refuse a part in the Christmas play, isolated from the the other
    children at morning assembly, indoctrinating them with puerile
    rubbish. Instead of helping them with their education.

    Not only did the kids miss out on many happy and harmless
    occasions but we also missed the joy of sharing with them.
    There’s no way to turn the clock back, life’s not a rehearsal,
    but maybe other parents will learn from our mistake.
    Best wishes, Ted.

    • September 20, 2015 at 3:57 pm
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      Let’s hope Ted. Yes, I find it very painful when I recall dragging our kids to all those exhausting meetings and denying the birthday parties. There was no point to it except to isolate them even further from their school friends. I hate how we brought our kids up. I was holier than thou in my approach. Thanks Ted. Once again I’m not alone in how I feel.

  • September 20, 2015 at 9:46 am
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    I don’t think the GB are so much liars as they are suffering delusions of their own self importance. I am sure that they see any bending of the facts as fully justified. They themselves are victims of the same cult influence as the rest of us. Doesn’t excuse their actions of course.

  • September 20, 2015 at 10:41 am
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    Bad Penny,
    There’s a total lack of humility with these men. They already
    insist they’re divinely appointed despite a continual catalogue
    of blunders, from Russell’s time up to the present.

    I couldn’t believe Jacksons conceit and presumption, when a
    question came up regarding Jesus opinion on the 2 witness
    rule, and he replied, “He hoped to ask Jesus in the future”
    ( No modifying that with, If I prove worthy to ever meet him)

    Yes the word “Delusion” I’m sure can accurately be applied here
    And the corollary to that is mental disease, and often
    “Megalomania” ( An obsession with the exercise of Power.)
    And we can all testify to the truth of that.
    Best wishes, Ted.

  • September 20, 2015 at 11:32 am
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    Ted

    I always love reading your comments and agree wholeheartedly with your common sense and logical sentiments.

    Your lovely comment earlier on about women shows what a genuinely caring person you are. I for one truly appreciate and value your presence here on Cedars.

    Rosie

    • September 21, 2015 at 4:20 pm
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      Rosie,

      I agree with you wholeheartedly.

      Ted you are a lovely man. I wish I knew you in person, we would have some great conversations.

  • September 20, 2015 at 2:00 pm
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    Rosie,
    Thank you so much for your kind comment. I’m sure that
    whenever any one of us posts here it’s in the hope that it
    may help someone avoid the problems that we’ve been
    through.

    Lloyd and his associates have created for us, a balanced
    forum where we are tolerant and respectful of each other,
    and of each other’s views. And this is reflected in the
    comments, I’ve noticed that if any fanatics visit, they don’t
    hang around for very long.

    I look forward to each ones comments, and miss ones who
    are absent for a while. Relating to other friends here is
    therapeutic for me and if by chance it helps someone else,
    that’s an added reward.
    Best Wishes, Ted.
    ,

    • September 22, 2015 at 1:48 am
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      hear hear rl

  • September 21, 2015 at 8:38 pm
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    I watched the Jackson testimony and was many times infuriated at the obvious dodging and misdirection. I am astounded at what a monstrosity Watchtower has become over its many decades of existence. I was especially dumbfounded when Stewart handed Jackson an out on the two Witness rule. It was so clear and obvious that what Jackson said was true, i.e. that if Jesus had been asked about sexual abuse he might had referred back to the Deut. Case of a single woman in the field. Stewart nailed it… There was no question he was right, but Jackson evaded the point and by doing so outright rejected a perfectly great “Biblical” basis for modifying the two witness rule. I also was scratching my head over his claim about the numerous times the two witness rule is mentioned in the Bible. Is he referring to Gospel parallels where the same events are recorded by different Gospel writers? Because I don’t remember that this two witness rule is recorded in many other places/ times in the scriptures. But Jackson made it seem that it’s a key doctrinal point repeated many times and places in the Bible . I too found it humorous but pitiful that a secular lawyer could so readily out Bible a so called Bible “scholar.” A “scholar” with no doubt very limited formal education . Who no doubt having been baptized at age 13 , when compulsory school was finished went right into the ministry. Without formal education how could Jackson become expert at translation… Self taught? By denying themselves, and others in the religion, any higher education it’s easy to see how such individuals who claim expertise but really aren’t experts can back themselves into corners.
    I’d be very interested in what the Commission’s official findings will be regarding the current state of the Society’s system of handling child abuse…hope it’s published, and relatively soon.

    • April 20, 2016 at 3:50 pm
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      Geoffrey Jackson is an accredited expert in translating. He has been published by other sources other than the WTBTS and received recognition from secular authorities for his translating work for the Australian Department of Tourism.

  • September 22, 2015 at 6:57 am
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    Grace,
    I’m overwhelmed by your generous comment, I’m sure that if
    we ever met, we would have some great conversations.
    Although I’m more of a listener than a talker, my wife sometimes
    says I’m a bit too quiet,

    There’s some sagacious minds comment on this site, including
    your own, and some who are very witty ( we all know who those
    are, I’m smiling already) . So if we all did get together we’d have
    some great laughs as well as stimulating conversations.

    Until then Grace I’ll look forward to your future contributions here.
    Best wishes, Ted.

  • September 22, 2015 at 2:51 pm
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    hi all i started to write a bit but it got lost in the ether I think, hope it doesn’t turn up later anyway. Ted, I wanted to comment on your point about being cautious in a difficult situation is not cowardice but good sense. I agree with you wholeheartedly when family don’t see things the way you do there is this grey wall. I’m finding being trapped in the tower excruciating right now.Putting on a brave face is so damn exhausting. My dad used to say “This too will pass” and that is true but living in this half way house is not healthy. One response to a post of mine mentioned two worlds colliding and that is how it feels.A head on collision is looming. We come to this site to express our feelings and there is great camarderie and support. I think tonight I feel angry at being duped, annoyed at being trapped,depressed that I cant run away, and dissappointed that I have to be patient .Feeling more of a hypocrite than ever.During the prayer i say my own or i will scream .JB Reezer will be pleased i played Iron Maiden at full blast in the car coming home YES i want to run to the hills right now. Isuppose all of this is fallout from being in a stupid cult that I thought was a valid faith and it all comes to naught.so Ted im trying to act with caution and appreciate your kind words. Thanks all of you out there.ruthlee

    • September 22, 2015 at 7:24 pm
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      Mmmm Iron Maiden….

      • September 23, 2015 at 8:17 am
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        @Tara . IRON MAIDEN!! Are you Referring to STEPHEN LETTS??

    • September 22, 2015 at 8:44 pm
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      ruthlee, I wish so much that your situation was better. The damn insidious nature of this cult is the worst part. There are so many things that make it nearly impossible to leave once you are in it’s clutches, especially, as in your case, if you have family entrenched in it.

      It can be very surreal. You see with perfect clarity how this cannot conceivably be the Truth. In fact, once you have an open mind, it’s not even a CHALLENGE to see that. That’s one of the most frustrating parts: the fact that REALITY is just one simple decision away from all of the people you care about– the decision to be open-minded. If they can just get to that point, then they will find a mountain of evidence waiting for them.

      I hope you can find a way to freedom. I hope the best path presents itself in a very clear way to you, soon. Remember (I know you know this, but I’ll say it anyway), we’re not just words on a screen. We here are REAL people. Nearly all of us have suffered VERY MUCH at the hands of the same enemy. We really do care about you and we will support you now, and when you make your move when the time becomes right for it. And I appreciate the support you give US with your ALWAYS-enjoyable comments. Thanks for being a part of this thing, ruthlee. I appreciate you.

    • September 22, 2015 at 8:47 pm
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      ruthlee, I wish so much that your situation was better. The damn insidious nature of this cult is the worst part. There are so many things that make it nearly impossible to leave once you are in it’s clutches, especially, as in your case, if you have family entrenched in it.

      It can be very surreal. You see with perfect clarity how this cannot conceivably be the Truth. In fact, once you have an open mind, it’s not even a CHALLENGE to see that. That’s one of the most frustrating parts: the fact that REALITY is just one simple decision away from all of the people you care about– the decision to be open-minded. If they can just get to that point, then they will find a mountain of evidence waiting for them.

      I hope you can find a way to freedom. I hope the best path presents itself in a very clear way to you, soon. Remember (I know you know this, but I’ll say it anyway), we’re not just words on a screen. We here are REAL people. Nearly all of us have suffered VERY MUCH at the hands of the same enemy. We really do care about you and we will support you now, and when you make your move when the time becomes right for it. And I appreciate the support you give US with your ALWAYS very enjoyable comments. Thanks for being a part of this thing, ruthlee. I appreciate you.

    • September 23, 2015 at 12:49 am
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      I agree with everything you say ruthlee….and the comforting words from Ted…jb…excelsior and yourself make me feel so much better about the route Im taking…I think my position is very similair to yours as your words resonate with me when I read them…I have however lost all faith and am happier for it….I fade because of my trapped situation…I would love to just walk away but the consequences I would have to face would kill me…thanks to you and this little community I do not feel alobe anymore..

  • September 23, 2015 at 2:26 am
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    if this repeats sorry computer clapped out! Aah! sweetness and light to all.I will keep you posted on progress. Does anyone feel overwhelmingly disappointed? I can live with apocalypse delayed but I can’t abide the deceit! If the UN are the beast as WT interpret why oh why would we form any alliance with them?We the duped hitched a ride without consent or being informed that feels like being trafficked.So being found out why again were we not informed as to the reasons why .We dont expect any apology from such arrogant fools, just to come clean.Or if they realised the interpretation in Rev was wrong, and it was alright now to be a part of that organisation, again why were we not informed?It throws up so much more as to their interpretation of scripture which frankly I think is way off beam let alone light getting brighter. If we were allianced to a genuine part of Satan’s nasty org then they have a lot of explaining to do when they do meet their maker! All the little sheep could have been ripped open and no one would know why. So any GB member perusing this site thats my thought for today. Just be honest Stop making fools of youselves. Our voices get stronger daily and you cannot stop it.TELL THE TRUTH

    • September 23, 2015 at 5:21 am
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      Dear ruthlee and Idontknowwhattodo, I am in the same position as you are but I haven’t gone to a meeting in about a year and half but have not been disfellowshipped yet but I do feel preemptive shunning but some are still not afraid to talk to me when they call my husband on the phone. I came right out and told the elders that I don’t believe the Governing Body or the Watchtower are run by God. I was not afraid to tell them that and I told them about 607 and the U.N. etc.

      If I get a chance to talk to the elders or anybody else who will talk to me this is what I will do, have them read Numbers chapter 31 out loud and then ask them at the end of that reading “and tell me why do you worship that God?”

      That has to be one of the worst descriptions of any God that I would worship and anybody with an ounce of brains has to see it too. I would turn it on them and have them tell me why I should worship that God, instead of me having to explain why I “left the truth”.

  • September 23, 2015 at 7:03 am
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    picked brain, JB Reezner, Ruth,L, Meredith J ,
    A film I enjoyed some time back was, “The School of Rock”
    and the lead actor told the kids in the school that Rock was
    about “Sticking it to the Man”

    So when you all were listening to these bands, considered
    rebellious and definitely on the taboo list, I guess you were
    sticking it to the org. They never had you right down, that
    Maverick spirit wouldn’t be smothered.

    A bit late in life for me perhaps ! But from now on. Anyone
    who wants to dominate and control me, I’m gonna follow
    your example, and just “Stick it to em.”

    • September 23, 2015 at 8:13 am
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      @Ted . NICE ONE !!! YEAH STICK IT TO THEM.!! Ted COULD YOU DO ME a FAVOUR & give me your opinion on my Reasoning on MY POST on this site under David SPLANE Explains ‘GENERATION ‘
      It is HIS USE of JOSEPH at Exodus 1v6 which I think is BIG BIG MISTAKE by the GB?

      • September 23, 2015 at 9:12 am
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        Hi Pickled brain. I read your comment and I still don’t understand. I don’t know if it’s because I am “slow” or what. Can you explain it more? Thanks

        • September 23, 2015 at 10:10 am
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          @ Anonymous.Thanks for taking the time to read as I & many here appreciate the research & information you provide.. Well Joseph & his 11 Brothers were BORN within 30 years of each other & DIED within 30 years of each other UNLIKE Fred Franz & Mark Sanderson ! Hope that helps

    • September 23, 2015 at 2:23 pm
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      Thanks Ted, that movie is a favorite of mine. I’ve watched it several times. At times, while still in, I had a wee bit of “stick-it-to-the-man-eosis” (you know the scene I mean), but mainly it was after I left that I fully reunited with all of the harmless, enjoyable things that I had sworn off. So I’m with YOU in admiring the ones who were strong-willed enough to do it while still engulfed by the cult with all of its judgmental nonsense.

  • September 23, 2015 at 9:01 am
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    Let me get this straight. To be appointed by the GB, you must be considered “anointed” by the current GB. You must also have a record of “full time” service according to the extra-biblical “works” set out by the GB.

    To be “spiritually mature”, one must comply with these decrees from the GB. I would also imagine that any “anointed” ones who disagree with the GB would quickly be “considered” as mere “professed anointed.”

    With such an internal policing mindset, is it any wonder the WTBTS finds themselves in legal trouble? Their legalistic behavior for over a century has reaped bitter fruit, and the harvest is not over. When the foxes guard the hen house, there will be casualties.

  • September 23, 2015 at 11:53 am
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    Pickled brain I’ve put put my thoughts regarding Ex 1-6 on the
    Splane Generation thread. By the way, my wife loves your comments,
    I can always tell when she gets to one of yours on the iPad ,
    She starts to chuckle, and says, That Pickled Brain Makes me laugh.
    It’s always nice to have ones spouse in a good humour, thanks PB

    • September 23, 2015 at 3:25 pm
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      @TED . THANK You for Your KIND WORDS & YOUR LOVELY WIFE I must SAY She Has an INCREDIBLE ASTUTE TASTE in MEN!! …,YOU of COURSE, TED !!!

  • September 23, 2015 at 1:27 pm
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    Good reasoning pickled brain, Joseph and his brothers
    we’re of the same generation fathered by the same man.
    over a 30 year period.

    Attempting to define a generation by linking “Anointed ”
    ones born over a 72 year span is a desperation measure.

    Fred Franz 1893—- Mark Sanderson 1965. That would
    cover, my grandfather, my father, myself and my son,
    4 generations in all.

    • September 23, 2015 at 3:37 pm
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      @Ted . YEP ..72 Years from when Franz was born to when Mark Sanderson… SO NO WAY are these TWO PYGMIES of the SAME GENERATION… OVERLAPPING Maybe by about 3 GENERATIONS, BUT DEFINITELY NOT of the SAME GENERATION & JESUS At Matthew 24v.34 Definitely only spoke of SINGULAR ‘ONE GENERATION ‘!!! IThink David SPLANE will have NEW LIGHT & Maybe we will have a PYRAMID RE-CALCULATION!!

  • September 29, 2015 at 11:45 am
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    How can leadership be so out of touch with their branches? Any business leader who exemplifies this type of behavior would be tossed out. This is extremely poor behavior. Over a thousand cases of child abuse is clearly out of control. The Governing Body’s behavior is innexcusable.

  • October 2, 2015 at 8:31 am
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    Well, well. I couldn’t stand just 20 minutes of watching that arrogant son of a b, but what amazes me is that this cowardly lying piece of dog excrement is WORSE, yes WORSE than some religious leaders of Islam! And here is why:

    I’m sure my friends from the UK can back me up about this- a show aired on the BBC about a year ago whereby some Islamic Imam/Imbecile from one of the largest mosques in the UK who was also under scrutiny and investigation defiantly told the TRUTH about his death cult and was not afraid to defend his cults teachings no matter how barbaric and savage they are. For example, when asked about such Koranic/Sharia/Insane teachings as death to adulterers, the beating of women and servants, honor killings for Allah and other nonsense, he proudly and defiantly said “YES that is all correct” and subsequently defended his beliefs! He had conviction! I’ll give him that!

    But Jackson on the other hand, employed subterfuge and outright lies and never defended his beliefs. “The Governing Body MIGHT NOT be the only one’s Jehovah speaks to?” REALLY? Since when? Last I read you appointed yourselves as the GATE KEEPERS OF THE UNIVERSE and if we don’t submit to your every decree and proclamation then we would be “cut off.”

    “Having a Christmas tree won’t get you disfellowshipped?” REALLY? MY BLOOD IS BOILING because I know from personal experience of family that were DF’d immediately and unconditionally for this very “offense.” Now you have a LEADER of this CULT SAYING THAT IS NOT TRUE?????????!??!?!?????????????????!!!!!!!! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?! I’ll go out right now and buy the biggest tree there is and let me see what happens!

    Ok. Phew. Steam is emanating from my ears. I’ll calm down now. Where was I? Right.

    Either he believes these beliefs with conviction or he doesn’t. It is that simple. And in this case, I saw a man who seems to have his conscience pulling on him. No. Correct that. That man has no conscience.

    The only way to deal with such scoundrels is to put them under a lie-detector test because it is obvious “oaths” do not mean anything! Who’s with me? Start a petition?

  • October 4, 2015 at 11:01 am
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    The “guardians of doctrine” thing jumped out at me too. My first thought was the fact he was repeating this tells me it was well rehearsed by Legal Department. They have been sounding an increasingly “papal note” over the past 20 years, starting with the “legal vow of poverty” the Bethelites take as part of a “special religious order.” I don’t see it as “cultish” so much as Roman Catholic. It is true though, that for anyone raised in the Organization that is over the age of say, 40 or 45, these words are bizarre.

  • October 15, 2015 at 7:44 am
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    When Mr. Stewart was questioning Jackson about not appointing women as elders, I wished he would have reminded Jackson of that scriptures at 1 Corinthians 14: 34,35 where Paul said that women were not to speak in the congregations and if they wanted to know something that they were to ask their husbands when they get home.

    I wonder what Jackson’s response would have been to that?

    It is okay for women to give talks and answer at the meetings but that is going against what Paul said, no matter what kind of spin the Society wants to put on it.

    The Governing Body pick and chose what ever scriptures they want to use to their advantage.

    The other day I mentioned to my husband how in Judges, Jephthah made a vow to offer up whoever it was that would come out of his house first as a burnt offering to Jehovah and according to every other Bible in the whole world, (other than the New World Translation) says that they daughters of Israel went up to Jerusalem to celebrate or commemorate the daughter of Jephthah so if you read the Bible the way it really says, Jephthah actually offered up his daughter as a burnt sacrifice to Jehovah.

    I confronted my husband with that and asked him if that was okay with him that Jehovah would take a sacrifice like that and that the New World Translation is the only one that implies that Jephthah didn’t kill her and my husbands answer to that was that the New World Translation “corrected” the way the Bible was supposed to read because of all the scribes errors over the years.

    He and most Witnesses do not know what the Bible really says because they read the “cleaned up” version printed by the Watchtower.

    The Watchtower knows that if they got the real version, they would be repulsed by Jehovah in the Hebrew Scriptures. Take for instance the account of Judah and his daughter-in-law Tamar. Judah was an ancestor of Jesus but if it hadn’t been for Tamar tricking her father-in-law into doing brother-in-law marriage for her to have a son, that son would never have existed. Judah wanted Tamar stoned to death for adultery, even though her husband had died but it was perfectly okay for Judah to have intercourse with a prostitute.

    When you read the account of Judah in Genesis 38, it says that Judah got to see a daughter of a certain Canaanite and so he “took her” and had relations with her and then she went on to have those three boys who all didn’t want to have children with Tamar. So, Judah “raped” that girl, plain and simple. It says nothing about him marrying her and that was an ancestor of Jesus.

    There is not even one place in either the Hebrew scriptures or the Greek scriptures where women were treated with the same respect as men.

    That is the way the Watchtower is still run today even though the rest of the world sees those bronze age laws and principles as barbaric towards the way women should be treated in today’s age of reason.

    The Watchtower men take the Bible and use what they want to their advantage and discard what they don’t like and rewrite it if they don’t have a choice but to keep it in.

    According to my husband, the Watchtower “corrects” the Bible when they do that.

    I wonder what Geoffrey Jackson’s response would have been to what Paul said in that women are not allowed to speak in the congregation but if they have any questions, they are to ask their husbands at home????

    That is what the Bible “really teaches”.

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