Battle of the cults: Anything JW Broadcasting can do, Scientology can do better!
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Watchtower's JW Broadcasting studio (above) is about to get a competitor from the Church of Scientology

Watchtower’s JW Broadcasting studio (above) is about to get a competitor from the Church of Scientology

Any cult operating in the information age, an era when facts can be easily verified with a few clicks on Google, will find disseminating baseless propaganda increasingly problematic.

Internet subscriptions are steadily on the rise, even in third world countries. It is simply impossible to dupe people as easily as before internet connectivity became widely available.

Watchtower’s answer to this problem has been a full-scale assault on the internet – an “if you can’t beat ’em, join ’em” approach. In 2012 Watchtower consolidated its web presence from three websites (jw-media.org, watchtower.org and jw.org) into one, essentially putting all its eggs in one basket with a visually appealing (if utterly misleading) JW.org revamped site.

Then in October last year the Governing Body announced the launch of JW Broadcasting (tv.jw.org) – a shameless foray into the tawdry world of TV evangelism that they had spent decades denouncing in their literature. Tony Morris, speaking at one of this year’s regional conventions, explained some of the thinking behind the move…

“The news agencies, you don’t see them hardly ever do a story about us because, guess who runs the media! This is no surprise. I did news service work at conventions in the early days when I was in the truth – very rarely did we get any decent press. We don’t care anymore. We’ll make our own news, we’ll put it on JW Broadcast, and I’ll tell you we get a lot of people that are not Witnesses – it’s directed, the audience is Jehovah’s people – but they’re like ‘who are these people?’ See, because Jehovah’s going to reach out and let ’em know ‘here’s where the truth is.'”

In other words, the internet and media are becoming increasingly toxic against the Witnesses, especially as reports of shunning, child abuse, and needless deaths from refusing blood transfusions steadily receive more media attention.

JW Broadcasting is therefore a propaganda counter-measure, aimed at projecting Watchtower’s Orwellian “listen, obey and be blessed” message in the hopes that if enough nonsense is thrown at the web-browsing public, some of it might stick.

Now it seems another cult – one that also happens to have a terrible media reputation – wants in on the act. The Daily Mail has reported that the Church of Scientology is constructing its own $50 million studio on Sunset Blvd in Los Angeles to globally disseminate Scientology’s own patented brand of mind control, as the cult’s website explains:

“The global media center that will revolutionize the Church’s communications footprint throughout the print, broadcast, and internet media worlds as a state-of-the-art hub helping beam Scientology’s message all over the globe. The world population of 7 billion is growing by more than 250,000 daily. With 3,000 opportunities to reach each person on any given day, the technological power to reach out exists at unprecedented orders of magnitude. Scientology Media Productions is the emphatic answer to that most vital question of how we will in fact catapult into the next dimension. When this new property opens, we will be capable of reaching virtually every person on Earth.”

scientology-jw

scientology-jw2

Scientology’s newsroom (top) is eerily reminiscent of its JW Broadcasting counterpart (bottom)

 

Scientology watchdog Tony Ortega of the Underground Bunker blog has already anticipated the development. “They’ve talked about doing a Scientology TV channel, showing their dumb videos over and over again,” he said. “But it could also go the way of their Freedom Magazine, where it’s trying to be more mainstream and commenting on everyday issues. They will try to do TV shows which are legitimate, speaking about every day things with a Scientology slant. Scientology news would be hilarious, but who would watch it?”

Gaining an audience for blatant cult propaganda will doubtless be more challenging for Scientology, regardless of their bigger and better facilities. Despite dominating the media discussion on cults, Scientology is punching well above its weight in terms of membership.

According to “Going Clear,” a recent HBO documentary (which I would urge everyone to watch!), the organization currently boasts a mere 50,000 active members – around the same number Watchtower has in Mozambique! My guess is the majority of viewers of Scientology video material will be critics of Scientology, and members of the atheist and ex-cult communities.

Watchtower, on the other hand, can bank on at least 8 million devoted subscribers to its online content, including JW Broadcasting videos. Even so, it is telling that when it comes to finding ways to thrust unprovable nonsense on people, birds of a feather like Watchtower and Scientology really do flock together.

 

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45 Responses to Battle of the cults: Anything JW Broadcasting can do, Scientology can do better!

  1. Etienne Genedl says:

    It still seems totally unreal to me that they are actually having this broadcasting channel. Back in the days when I was a witness – which is just five, six years ago – it would have been completely unspeakable. I recall some of the brothers in my former congregations in Germany mocking other churches for their media appearance, saying something like God would not need a TV channel to speak to his people or make his will known to the world. Now, these presumptuous men at the east coast decided differently and all over a sudden, the witnesses embrace what they once were told to reject. When I think of some of the older, more conservative brothers and sister that I met over the years both in my home country and in other areas of the world, I am very sure that they somehow secretly doubt that these new media campaigns are a part of God’s plan for his people while they’re watching the younger generation of witnesses preaching a website and a logo.

  2. buk lao says:

    Wow i’d watch both just to be entertained to see which speaker is the better looney tune. This is going to get interesting.

  3. Kat says:

    It is basically to combat the internet. The scientology cult treats ex members the same as the JW, I have seen them on current affairs programs saying the same thing as JW, bitter ex members.

    the information is there on the internet, damaging to cults, so the propaganda TV cult network starts.

  4. Jordano says:

    I’ll watch it. This is going to be hilarious.

  5. Dee says:

    This is religious oneupmanship and an expensive king of the mountain game. Nooooobody cares what these goofballs have to say in their self important, self righteous, self serving talking heads rhetoric. Let them spend all their money. 🙂

  6. StrongHaiku says:

    “…We don’t care anymore. We’ll make our own news, we’ll put it on JW Broadcast…”

    I think AMIII went to the “Rupert Murdoch School of Journalism”… He is confusing news and journalism with opinion pieces and propaganda…

    • JWIntellect says:

      Lol. Who knows? He might be able to land a job on Fox News.

      • StrongHaiku says:

        Right? Just watched “Outfoxed: Rupert Murdoch’s War on Journalism” last night. I hadn’t seen it in a couple of years. If you get a chance, watch the documentary. It gives you an insight on the JW.org Broadcasting playbook…

  7. Dee says:

    Oh…and the studios are gorgeous. But it’s still just lipstick on a pig. Now they’re right up there with Fox News and the Enquirer. Lol.

  8. anonymous says:

    With all those famous actors being Scientologists, at least the acting should be better than jwbroadcasting. I think it will be entertaining. I just hope they don’t swing a watch in front of the camera to get my hypnotized into another cult. Being drawn into one cult was enough for me in my lifetime.

    On a serious note, I think it will work because people are drawn to movie stars and there’s a lot of movie stars in that religion and people might think if they join up with them, they will hob nob with movie stars. People are that shallow.

  9. Oubliette says:

    Interesting development.

    Two comments:

    1 – That quote of dialogue from Anthony Morris is quite interesting. I’ve heard him talk many times and often noticed what is very obvious when you read a transcript of his speaking. He rarely completes a sentence! His thoughts are quite scattered and disjunct.

    2 – In my own informal non-scientific survey I have asked quite a number of JWs if they watch JW.TV. The vast majority of them have said they do not. I wonder what percentage of JW’s watch JW.TV.

    Keep up the good work!

    Oubliette

  10. chatpal says:

    this is too funny, its like they hired the same set designers,lol
    well I always heard the comment, ‘you cant believe anything coming out of the mouths of those tv evangelists’,
    or tv to begin with….
    I think once something ends up on the old viewfinder, its going to start to slide down the old scale of respectability.
    media has a way of defiling anything viewed as wholesome ,lol

  11. Bad Penny says:

    I noticed one subtle difference between the two sets. Scientologys’ logo has the intertwining pyramids! JW.org prefers to hide that part of their history!

  12. David says:

    the light is getting brighter even for Scientology

  13. Jill Hileman says:

    This right here– the average person hears the term Scientology and assumes rightly to stay far away. The average person hears the term Jehovah’s Witness and assumes nice, innocuous but annoying on Saturday mornings and weird about holidays.

    The sheer number (50,000 members compared to 8 million!) makes it that much more important that both cults are exposed for the controlling, manipulative, family-shattering groups they both are.

  14. David says:

    so they publish a magazine called “Freedom Magazine”. JWs publish the awake magazine. Nice! They know how to change the meaning of words.
    Yes, once you join one of these cults you are free. You have the only freedom of saying… Yes sir! It is all a waste of money and resources to publish rubbish!

  15. Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

    I tend to think they will have a good number of people to watch the Watchtower’s TV… Some people are so desperate that they eager to hear anyone saying the end is near! They are FALSELY helping those “Those With Anxiety Disorders”

    *** g 3/12 p. 27 How to Help Those With Anxiety Disorders ***
    Post-Traumatic Stress Disorders (PTSD) In recent times this term has been used to describe a range of psychological symptoms people may experience following an extremely traumatic event that involved physical harm or the threat of such. PTSD sufferers may startle easily, be irritable, become emotionally numb, lose interest in things they once enjoyed, and have trouble feeling affection for others—especially those with whom they used to be close. Some become aggressive, even violent, and tend to avoid situations that remind them of the original traumatic incident.

    http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/l/r1/lp-e?q=g+3%2F12+p.+27

  16. Mama Joy says:

    No matter what they try, the JWs still look crazy to anyone who isn’t brainwashed yet.

  17. Tony Brock says:

    How is this possible though without Jehovah’s spirit? I mean, that is how JW’s were able to do it, right? That’s what I heard anyway. I wonder if the Scientologists will have stories about how material for their studio couldn’t be attained until, by some miracle, it became available, and at half the original cost.

    • JJ says:

      Even Pharaoh’s priests could make their rods turn into snakes too.
      (See, that’s how it’s done. You compare Scientology’s studio to the JW one and I’ll come up with some obscure scripture proving nothing)

  18. Ted says:

    there’s plenty of “Snake oil” (quack remedies) for sale on the net,
    sold by guys hoping to make a quick buck out of the gullible.
    While most of it wont do you any harm, it won’t do you any good
    either.

    The mental poison, peddled by the likes of WT, and Scientology
    is both addictive and harmful. Psychological damage and family
    break up, through shunning or disconnection, resulting sometimes
    in suicides. Thousands of needless deaths through pressurised
    refusal of medical treatment, etc, etc,

    Alongside the fraudsters claims, there’s lots of genuine, independent
    information, just a click away, exposing them. The move then into
    Internet broadcasting by these two groups, could well be counter
    productive.

  19. Bad Penny says:

    Ted – I agree with your comment.
    Just looked at the Scientology website –
    Just like JWs, it appears squeaky clean, the same open eyed folks looking sooo happy!
    Again claiming to lead ones to truth and freedom, when in fact it is leading to captivity.
    The good thing now is, one only has to look at other sites to be warned to keep well away. Once bitten, twice shy, we would say.
    I can’t see how these cults can survive in this informed world – unless you are totally gullible, stupid, hypnotised or brain washed!

  20. Jakemon75 says:

    I think the best thing that could happen to J-Dubs are those broadcasts.

    Not for the GB, but for the rank and file.

    The embarrassing and out of touch manner in which these men speak and the mannerisms they use in speaking to the rank and file have got to be raising some questions.

    They’re embarrassing.

    Some have got to think, even privately, “This is one of the handful of persons that Jesus hand picked?”

    Or, “How could this person possibly know what it’s like to be in my shoes and have to get through life everyday?”

    Please keep them talking. I know from talking to persons still attending meetings that they are finding these broadcasts to be embarrassing, and out of touch, and it’s raising the eyebrow that could lead to actually looking into what they are told.

  21. Mark says:

    The general opinion among anti-Scientology activists is that the LA studio is merely a minor variation on cult dictator David Miscavige’s property-scam—the vast, expensively-revamped ‘Ideal Org’ buildings it owns—the majority of which are all but empty, but which permit Scientology to try and duck accusations of inurement (or operating for profit and personal gain despite their US tax-exemption). This constant acquisition of property allows Miscavige to fool his dwindling flock that Scientology is still expanding as “the fastest-growing new religion in the world”. It also serves to loosen the purse-strings of his ‘whales’: rich followers like pharmaceticals billionaire Bob Duggan, who continue to pour millions into Scientology’s already bulging coffers. In the (frankly unlikely) event the LA studio does start transmitting, it will only be preaching to the converted.

  22. Mc fan says:

    Anyone ever wonder,how many of these supposed 8 million Jehovah’s Witnesses are Faders, liars, drunkards,Child Molesters, fornicators, adulterers,rapists,wife beaters,child beaters and wife swappers!

    Oh Yeh!
    And why does the membership number stay at 8 million for so long, it’s been around 8 million members for a few years now! If JEHOVAH is constantly blessing this orginazation why don’t the membership numbers continue to grow?

  23. da' says:

    Couldn’t JW Broadcasting eventually turn out to be a great thing for the R & F ? AMIII said even non-witnesses watch the broadcasts. What if people from every nation tune in , well wouldn’t that give those Saturday am doorknockers time to do something else?
    And then if all the weekly meetings and Assemblies were broadcast too ? See where im going here ?

    • anonymous says:

      @da’, I was thinking the same thing. The goal is to have more money coming in than what they have coming in at the present time. That is what is important to the Society, the cheapest way to get more money coming in than what is presently coming in at the present time.

      If people can print their own literature and then take their cars and use their gas to “place/dump” it on to the public, that’s even a cheaper way to go. Then they can get rid of all the Bethelites working in the Bethels and send them home and sell off all the Bethels.

      I have been thinking that they will do that in the end as that would certainly be the most cost effective method for a non-profit publishing charity/cult.

      • Rosie says:

        In Ireland, they closed the Branch office – probably due to cut backs, but (I don’t know if this is 100% correct, I may have picked this up incorrectly) apparently they have “Bethelites” who operate “Bethel” from their own homes?

    • pj wilcox says:

      I like your idea. I think we should get Coors beer and pringles, set up pay per view and watch the trial in Australia about child abuse. Have you seen the inferior mongrel elder on the stand being asked questions and getting nailed? This spurious, phony absurd morons days are numbered knocking on any doors.

  24. rob says:

    I still find it disturbing that God’s name has been reduced to an acronym – JW TV. When I was a witness i remember how important it was for the witnesses to ensure that God’s name was proclaimed and was not hidden. The witnesses criticized the other religions for taking God’s name out of the Bible and replacing it with Lord and God etc, but now they have done the exact same thing by replacing God’s name using just the first letter. Very very hypocritical.

  25. Ted says:

    Anonymous.

    The orgs, main focus is the almighty dollar, yen, pound, and whatever
    other currency exists.

    On the elders course, at Mill Hill Bethel, the instructor told the class,
    “The org, is not concerned primarily with the easiest way, but the
    cheapest”. Of course when you’ve got thousands of unpaid workers
    you can do things on the cheap !

    When the Egyptians were building the Pyramids, they didn’t have a lot
    of technology, but they had plenty of slaves. No wages to pay, just
    keep em fed on bread, onions, and garlic, and plenty of beer to wash it
    down with. ( water was mostly polluted )

    The org, works on this ancient system, especially in the Bethel’s,
    although I think, they hold back on the beer

    • anonymous says:

      @Ted, the Egyptian slaves were paid pretty good. They had all kinds of animals, sheep, goats and cattle and they had houses and they even had gold earrings. When they left Egypt, they even had tents and all kinds of other stuff with which they were able to saw down wood to make the santuary and all kinds of tent material to make the santuary tent cloths with etc. . When they were in the wilderness, they even had weapons to kill off all the Canaanites and anybody else who got in their path.

      That sure doesn’t sound like the unpaid slaves that Watchtower cons into working for them. The Watchtower slavery, more resembles the kind of slavery that the United States had before the civil war before the slaves were freed from that kind of tyranny. The really sad thing is that Watchtower slaves are conned into it because they think they are saving the world from destruction at Armageddon and they are mindless voluntary slaves because they are so meek and mild-tempered and good hearted.

      The whole purpose of the JW religion is to “witness” about the coming war of Armageddon and if you were to ask any of Jehovah’s Witnesses to describe the actual war of Armageddon, there isn’t a one of them that could tell you that the War of Armageddon in Revelation chapter 20 is AFTER SATAN AND HIS DEMONS ARE ABYSSED FOR 1,000 YEARS AND NOT BEFORE. The whole purpose of the religion and going to meetings and being taught how to preach about Armageddon is meaningless if any one of them realized that the war of Armageddon is after Satan and the demons are abyssed for 1000 years.

      They all think that Armageddon is right around the corner and Watchtower isn’t going to tell them the real truth but really if anyone of them would just crack out their Bibles and “meditate” on the scriptures, like Watchtower is always preaching, they’d see it for themselves but of course, they are under cult mind-control and can’t think anymore.

      They are totally brain dead and that is the way Watchtower wants it.

  26. Excelsior! says:

    anonymous,

    You are right, as usual! The “final war” will indeed be AFTER the 1000 year reign of Jesus. It won’t be so much a battle as a slaughter. Fire will rain down and consume all the “bandana people” and Satan and the demons.

    Your comments on the origin of sin were very interesting. If one believes in God, which I don’t, Sin, evil etc always existed as potential inside a perfect God. God decided to voluntarily limit himself from sin and evil. If God cannot sin, then he is not all powerful (omnipotent). My favourite paradox involving omnipotence is this; can God create a stone that he cannot lift? If he can create a stone he cannot lift, then he is not omnipotent. If he can’t create a stone he cannot lift, then he is also not omnipotent.

    Now, steering this back to Scientology and other cults, we can begin to understand that all of these religious cults are using a God or gods that do not make any sense. Applying the “stone” question reveals that our very concept of God is logically flawed. As science discovers more, God or gods are pushed further and further away from the known towards the still unknown.

    Centuries ago, gods lived in temples, or on mountains or in heaven, which was in the sky somewhere. People went up into the sky and they didn’t find heaven. Well, heaven must be in space! People went out into space and they didn’t find heaven. Well, heaven must be in a different dimension, or really really far away….

    Interestingly, the WTBTS used to teach that Heaven was physically located in the “Seven Sisters” constellation!

    I have no problem with people choosing to believe in anything they want, as long as they don’t harm other people. Please don’t see this as bashing those with faith.

    Peace be with you, Excelsior!

  27. GEM says:

    @ Anonymous: Your comment regarding Armageddon forced me to blow the dust off the old book and do a re read of Revelation 16….where the sole reference to Armageddon is made…and then to read Revelation 20.

    Cutting to the core… I think you are wrong on this point, and Excelsior is correct in stating that one is a “battle” and the second one is more of a slaughter!

    Could you throw some light on your statement, Anonymous, please?

    • anonymous says:

      @Gem, I see two wars, the one at Rev. 16:16 where the Bible talks about the seven plagues (which are almost the very same plagues on Egypt in Exodus) but this scripture in Revelation speaks about a war that is about to come with the destruction of Babylon the Great which goes from Chapter 16 through Rev. 19:3 where it describes the destruction of Babylon the Great. T

      hen it talks about the marriage of the Lamb and then Rev. 19:11 it speaks of a white horse and someone called Faithful and True is sitting on it and he carries on “war in righteousness” and has a name which nobody knows except he himself and the armies in heaven were following him on white horses and they have white, clean fine linen and the one who is Faithful and True is going to strike the nations with the sword coming out of his mouth and he will shepherd the nations with a rod of iron.

      Chapter 19:15 is where it says that he is going to tread the wine press of the anger of the wrath of God the Almighty and on his thigh is a name King of kings and Lord of lords. Then it goes on to say how the birds are going to eat the fleshy parts of kings and military commanders and strong men and horses of freemen and slaves and small ones and great.

      Chapter 19:19 says John sees the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage the war with the one seated on the horse with his army and the wild beast was caught and along with it the false prophets that performed in front of the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who render worship to its image and while still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulphur. But the rest were killed off with the long sword of the one seated on the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth. And all the birds were filled from the fleshy parts of them.

      Then Chapter 20 goes on to talk about the Devil being abyssed for 1,000 years so that he couldn’t mislead the nations anymore until the 1,000 years were ended and then afterwards he will be let loose for a little while longer. (It is interesting that in Chapter 20:4 it talks about thrones and those who sits on them being given authority to judge and they are given that authority to judge and rule as kings for the 1,000 years but it doesn’t say that there are 144,000 of them.) It talks about those that come to life and rule with the King for the 1,000 years and verse 5 says the rest of the dead didn’t come to life until the 1,000 years had ended (that’s what the Bible really says. Forget Watchtower’s explanation of that scripture. That is what the Bible really says).

      Starting in chapter 20:7 is where it says that when the 1,000 years had ended, Satan is let loose to mislead the nations (nations again???) Gog and Magog to gather them together for the “war” and they encircle the camp of the holy ones (thought they were all in heaven at the end of the 1,000) and verse 9 says that fire comes down from heaven and consumes them (who is it talking about here, the holy ones, since the very next verse goes on to say that the Devil was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur and will be tormented forever and ever.

      Those scriptures in Rev. 20 about Gog and Magog are the scriptures that the Society likes to use when they are talking about Armageddon and that is after the 1,000 years have ended when Satan has been abyssed but those are the scriptures the Society likes to use when they are talking about Armageddon.

      The whole account in Revelation starting in Chapter 16 through 20 are talking about one war with Babylon the Great being destroyed and all those who worship it and then down to the final war in Chapter 20 where Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire forever.

      What I see here are two separate wars of God. The first one is the only place where Armageddon is mentioned but the Bible calls it a place called harmageddon which has to be symbolic since all these nations of the earth can’t be in one single place at one time. It isn’t a real war. It’s a place. That is the only place in the Bible where you see harmageddon and it’s not a war but a place (symbolic).

      I am only going by what I see in the Bible. I don’t even begin to understand Revelation. To me the whole thing is gibberish and I could be totally wrong and I don’t mind being corrected if I am wrong too.

    • anonymous says:

      Hi Gem. I got out my Bible and reread those scriptures again last night too. Rev. 16:14 tells about the war of God and then Rev. 16:16 tells how all the kings were gathered at a place called Har-magedon. So I looked it up in the Insight Book #1 and it says it is “associated” with the war mentioned at Rev. 16:14 but it still doesn’t call it the “war of Armageddon”. It would be like if the U.S. had a war in New York during the Civil War, you wouldn’t call it the New York War, you would call it the Civil War. So, actually when people think of the “war of Armageddon”, they have it wrong. It is just “associated” with the war mentioned in Rev. 16:14 but if you look up war in the Concordance, it’s used nine times in Revelation. So, it’s just an assumption that Armageddon is just a war and then the war in Rev. 20:8 is a slaughter. I think they are both slaughters but Har-magedon is still just a place and not a war. Do you catch my drift?

      I think the person who wrote Revelation was on drugs or drunk and suffering from hallucinations. That is my person opinion because no matter how much I try to make sense of that book, I can’t and I don’t think the Society has a clue either. They just pretend like they got some “inside” info on it.

      • GEM says:

        Patmos is famous for its Magic Mushrooms, Anonymous. I can accept that John may well have been under the influence at the time. 🙂

        Still can’t see how you have arrived that Armageddon is an event that takes place after the said 1000 years.

        I scratch my head as to why the Good God above would want to write such ambiguous gibberish, when he could just have penned it all in plain language.

        John must have had one helluva trip, man!

        • anonymous says:

          Gem, I truly believe that whoever wrote Revelation was on something and magic mushrooms came to my mind too. Just looking at Revelation 9:1-11 seems like nothing but drug-induced hallucinations where it talks about how John saw a star fall from heaven and and the key to the pit of the abyss was given to it and he (star) opened the pit of the abyss and smoke came out of the abyss and out of the smoke came locusts and the locusts resembled horses prepared for battle and they had women’s hair and faces and had crowns of gold on their heads and these locusts had what looked like iron breastplates and their wings sounded like chariots of many horses running into battle and they had over their head the angel of the abyss and his name was Apollyon or Abaddon. If just that one scripture doesn’t sound like a hallucination, I don’t know what does.

          There are two ways of examining the Bible, exegesis or eisegesis.

          Exegesis is the exposition or explanation of a text based on a careful, objective analysis. It means literally to lead out of. That means that the interpreter is led to his conclusions by following the text.

          The opposite approach to Scriptures is eisegesis, which is the interpretation of a passage based on a subjective, non-analytical reading. The word eisegesis literally means to lead into which means that the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.

          Obviously only exegesis does justice to the text. Eisegesis can lead to a misinterpretation but exegesis is concerned with discovering the true meaning of the text, only being concerned with making a point, even if it is at the expense of the meaning of the words.

          So, I am using Watchtower’s words here when it comes to what it says about Har-mageddon (Armageddon). If we were to go only on what Revelation actually says, we would take it literally and would think the Bible writer was on drugs.

          Most Bible believers, believe Revelation came from God and it went through an angel to John and he wrote it down as a prophecy for our time or at least a future time from when John was alive and he was not some drug-induced hallucination.

          So, if we use the Watchtower’s eisegesis explanation of Revelation in the publication “Insight on the Scriptures” volume 1, under Har-mageddon on pages 1037-1038, it says that Har-mageddon is not a literal place but a “condition or situation” to which the kings of the earth are gathered in opposition to Jehovah and is a “fight” where God’s invisible armies take part.

          Har-mageddon is only mentioned at Rev. 16:16. From Rev. 16 to Rev. 19, the Bible is describing the fall and final destruction of Babylon the great and then at the end of Rev. 19 is where it talks about the war with the one seated on the white horse and the armies in heaven etc. and the birds eating the dead and the wild beast and the kings of the earth all being thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur and verse 20 says “and the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who render worship to its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulphur. But the rest were killed off with the long sword of the one seated on the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth. And all the birds were filled from the fleshy parts of them.”

          Then Chapter 20 tells about an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and he seized the Devil and bound him for 1,000 years and then when the 1,000 years had ended, Satan is let go to mislead the nations again and the final war is at Rev. 20:9 where it says: “And they advanced over the breadth of the earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and devoured them.”

          So, either fire devoured the holy ones or it devoured anybody on Satan’s side who is fighting against the kingdom rule.

          So, the Bible talks about two wars. The Bible doesn’t say the war of Armageddon. It’s simply God’s war at Rev. 16:14 and the 2nd war is also God’s war.

          The word Har-mageddon simply means a condition. It doesn’t mean total destruction, like what most people think of (not Witnesses though). It is simply the first war and the 2nd war is final destruction.

          Both wars are all the people against God and so are situations and could both be considered Har-magaddons, that is if you were to take the eisegesis approach to interpreting the Bible which is subjective and means that the interpreter can put any meaning into the scriptures that he wants to.

          • anonymous says:

            Upon reading Revelation in chapter 21, you can see that the 2nd Har-mageddon isn’t a total destruction either. This is talking about how after the 1,000 years when Satan has been abyssed and let out and he again misleads the nations and fire comes down and burns them all and Satan is thrown into the lake of fire…. Rev. 21 is talking about after that.

            Rev. 21:24-27 reads: “And the nations will walk by means of its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. And its gates will not be closed at all by day, for night will not exist there. And they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it. But anything not sacred and anyone that carries on a disgusting thing and a lie will in no way enter into it, only those written in the Lamb’s scroll of life will.”

            I told my husband this morning that I want to understand Revelation so well that if anybody talks about it, I will know what I am talking about and nobody will be able to “talk over me” when it comes to Revelation so I study it a lot. In fact I am obsessed about it. That is the extent that I want to know what it says so nobody can talk “over my head” about it.

            So this morning I was telling him that I saw a scripture in there last night that had gone over my head before and I brought it up like this: “Last night I saw a scripture in Revelation that I had never before paid any attention to and I can’t figure out how I never noticed it before. It tells about after the 1,000 years and after the 2nd Armageddon and it talks about kings of the earth and nations etc.

            So then I showed these scriptures to my husband and his explanation is that the Bible must not be in Chronological order. That was his answer. So then I said he was speculating.

            How we got into this discussion is that he said yesterday at the Watchtower, it was saying how Witnesses are now to talk about what they are going to do in the new world and I said it sounds like what they were really saying then is that in order not to be depressed about what their lives are now, they are supposed to think and talk about what it will be like in the new world. Of course, I was all wrong about that, according to him. The Society would never do that as their lives are just so happy now. But then if their lives are so happy now, why would they have to daydream about the new world????

  28. Ted says:

    The structure of both these organisations, along with their
    Internet broadcasting stations, reeks of brash commercialism.

    When you finally get rid of the cult blinkers, you realise this is
    exactly what they are, hucksters selling an illusion a mirage
    ie, “Religion” .

    It’s the oldest game in the world. The other one comes second.

  29. anonymous says:

    Leah Remini has a reality show on TLC and her 2nd season opener two nights ago, was called “Leaving Scientology” and it was as if she was describing leaving Jehovah’s Witnesses. If any of you can watch that show and have people in your family watch that show, there is no way that they can’t see how much the same the two religions are, especially when it comes to disfellowshipping.

    The reason Leah decided to leave the religion was because of her daughter. She knew that the religion came before family and that when the daughter got older, her loyalty would be to the religion over and above her family and she couldn’t stand the idea.

    Her husband, mother, step-father, sister and brother-in-law left the religion when she did because she chose to speak out about it and so she was labeled a subversive and nobody was to speak to her from then on and her family couldn’t do that since they are such a close family.

    They had a session with a therapist as a family and they all talked about leaving and were actually glad that Leah left because it helped them to see that they had all belonged to a damaging cult and didn’t realize it until they had left. Leah’s brother-in-law described how his father threw him away like throwing away an old tee shirt.

    It was so much like the Watchtower religion and if you can get your family to watch it, it might help them to see Watchtower is no different than Scientology.

  30. Tory Williams says:

    Look up the meaning of a cult … Neither JW or Scientology is a cult ..
    JWs are a legit religion that bases their beliefs on the bible the best way they know how to interpret it. In that case ALL religions would have to be cults.
    Scientology is a non biblical based religion.

    Cults force people to have sex and do things that are very contrary to religion ran by one person having little to do with biblical learning .. I guess if you had to say one was a cult Scientology is closer … That’s why they have 50,000 members as a posed too 8 mil.

    • Winston Smith says:

      Tory,

      I suggest you commit some time and research to the true meaning of a cult beyond the general dictionary meaning. The psychological community has a more thorough definition of cults based on their level of control over their adherents. I suggest starting with the book Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steve Hassan. There you will learn of the BITE model that defines a cult based on their control of members’ behavior, information, thinking, and emotions. By the definitions of psychological community both Scientologists and Jehovah’s Witnesses are a cult.

      WS

  31. Lauralou says:

    I was just watching Leah Remini’s show on Scientology. I find it difficult to watch because so many of the stories she highlights remind me of JW families. A cult is a cult regardless of what name they hide under. Like her I too realized, after many years of torturing myself to be a part of this organization, that I was never given an opportunity to choose for myself. I was born into this and that was that…until I finally had enough. The interesting thing I am finding out is that even after being away for years I still don’t have a day go by that Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t enter my mind in one way or another. Sometimes it comes from thinking about a family that is shunning me (because we all know that’s do affective). Sometimes it’s something I hear on tv or sometimes it’s just a thought that pops into my head. I’m only starting to realize what a firm hold they had on my mind. Even now, more than 25 years has passed since anyone would have considered me “active” and I still can’t bring myself to listen to even one program on JW broadcasting. The thought of hearing those lies disgusts me even now. I pray that the 7,000,000 people who are currently being mid-lead by the JW’s and all the others in other cults be set free.

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