Oatmeal and Amaretto: Tales of hypocrisy from the heart of Brooklyn Bethel

Regular readers of this website will be familiar with former Jehovah’s Witness Howie Tran.

Tran served at Brooklyn Bethel for a number of years, eventually ascending to the role of helping aged Governing Body member Karl F. Klein to fulfil his duties before ultimately leaving both Bethel and the Witness religion behind him. He was recently interviewed by Trey Bundy of Reveal news as part of Bundy’s ongoing investigation in to Watchtowers child abuse scandal; and indeed we have Tran to thank for pointing out GB member Antony Morris to Bundy on the street, which resulted in the now infamous audio recording of Morris scurrying away from a reporter as fast as his anointed legs could carry him.

Now Howie Tran has given another interview to former Jehovah’s Witness and human rights activist Louise Goode on the long-running JW Podcast show. In this interview, Tran expands on some of the information he gave during Bundy’s report, and tells an incredible story of astonishing hypocrisy at the highest levels of Watchtower.

Under the influence of the “Holy Spirit.”

Photograph of 2nd Watchtower President Joseph Rutherford drinking with other Jehovah’s Witnesses

For example, it is well known that Watchtower publications condemn heavy drinking, to the point where a person can be disfellowshipped for habitual drunkenness. This standard of moderation in consuming alcohol is especially important for appointed men according to the Insight Book volume one page 656-657: 

Moderation and soundness of mind are therefore among the requirements for Christian overseers (1Ti 3:1-3; Tit 1:7); ministerial servants (1Ti 3:8); aged men and women (Tit 2:2, 3); young men and women (Tit 2:4-8); children (especially those of overseers).Tit 1:6.

The same publication also condemns those who would engage in official religious duties whilst under the influence of alcohol (bold is mine.)

As shown in the Law, it is not fitting to indulge in alcoholic beverages just before engaging in religious service. The priests of Israel were commanded that they must drink no wine or intoxicating liquor while engaging in their official duties, lest they should die.Le 10:8-11.

However, it has long been known that heavy drinking has historically played a signifiant part of life in certain areas of Bethel. Many stories from different sources  surround Watchtower’s second President Joseph Rutherford and his fondness for consuming signifiant amounts of alcohol, and many ex Witnesses (including myself) can relate accounts of heavy drinking taking place in the various Bethel buildings around the world.

Tran’s accounts however are shocking in that they relate not just to younger bethelites or those who could be considered “weak in the faith.” He alleges that heavy drinking and drunkeness were a regular problem amongst members of the Governing Body. He relates for example one astonishing account of how the breakfast routine of Governing Body member Karl Klein involved a jug of Amaretto being poured into a bowl of oatmeal. He also relates how another former GB member, Lyman Swingle, became such a foul mouthed, abusive drunk in his later years that ultimately no Bethelite could share a room with him, and that he had to be transferred to Bethel’s medical rooms for 24 hour observation until he died.

This is not all.

Tran relates that some members of the Governing Body would arrive to their official Wednesday meeting under the influence of alcohol; stating that one GB member would take a “shake” made of a few raw eggs and a lot of wine to the meeting. He also states that he sometimes heard loud arguments and the banging of fists on tables from these meetings, and attributes this behaviour in part to the consumption of alcohol.

To re-iterate; Watchtower’s own insight book states:

As shown in the Law, it is not fitting to indulge in alcoholic beverages just before engaging in religious service. The priests of Israel were commanded that they must drink no wine or intoxicating liquor while engaging in their official duties, lest they should die.Le 10:8-11.

One need not imagine how a rank and file Witness would be treated were they to arrive at a congregation meeting or to undertake official Watchtower business after a couple of drinks; shift chastisement, possible loss of privileges, and even disfellowshipping could follow if they were habitually drunk on (or off) Watchtower time. Yet according to Tran, for those taking the lead at the very top the rules did not apply.

Tran also relates how he would frequently be instructed to keep the hypocrisy and troublesome conduct of senior Watchtower officials to himself. For example, he relates how Governing Body member Jack Barr once instructed him to be like a “walking stick” whilst assisting GB member Karl Klein: a useful tool that would carry out its function, but that would “hear nothing and see nothing.”

There is actually a lot more that in the episode. Tran discusses in the podcast, everything from his experiences growing up gay in the religion, to the long road that eventually took him out of Bethel and the Watchtower religion altogether.

I strongly recommend listening to the full interview on JW Podcast, and also recommend listening to Howie Trans’ interview with Trey Bundy on the Reveal News Podcast if one has not already done so.


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211 Responses to Oatmeal and Amaretto: Tales of hypocrisy from the heart of Brooklyn Bethel

  1. Eric Arthur Blair says:

    I’ve been listening to this interview over the last two days and I found it quite profound. Life changing actually. The levels of hypocrisy and duplicity in this organisation seem to know no bounds. It seems there is no Watchtower rock that can be turned over without discovering some secret “sin.” Thank you for your bravery and for sharing your experiences Howie – the kind that never make it to the “life stories” in The Watchtower magazine. I’m sure you have much more, and we’d love to hear them!

  2. Destroy this WT and the GB will rebuild it lol. says:

    I just LOVE how the WT and it’s GB irritates these people.. keep up the Stories HAHA

    • twistedsister69 says:

      @Destroy this WT … whatever
      U sound like one of those WT lushes! HAHA
      “A house that is inebriated cannot stand.”
      😀 😀 😀

    • Ricardo says:

      Maybe instead of laughing you should be praying; praying for God’s forgiveness for our leadership if these statements are true, and praying for God’s forgiveness for the leadership’s lack of action to fix problems they themselves have devised even if it is not true.

      Although we hope such reports as this are false, the example we are already seeing with regard to the lack of any appropriate action on child sexual abuse certainly gives basis that there is more truth to these stories than we wish to believe.

      We would not be having these doubts if our leadership had the reputation for taking swift action to remedy problem areas. Unfortunately, that confidence has been smashed.

      • Winston Smith says:

        Trouble is that when the GB or their wannabe lackies pray, I am afraid it goes something like this: ‘God, I thank You that I’m not like other people —greedy, unrighteous, adulterers, or even like the rank and file members of my religion. I go to five meetings a week, service on Sundays, read every issue of the Watchtower, shun higher education, shun anyone who tries to leave the organization, and protect the names of child abusers.’

        ‘Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full!’


        • Big B says:

          Very enlightening article Covert Fade.


          Bingo! Right on with their (Governing Body et als) “prayer”.

          However, as we all know from decades of meeting attendance and Watchtower studies, God answers ALL prayers. There is a catch however, sometimes God says “NO”.

          @ Ricardo:

          As stated above, all the prayer in the world will not help a disapproved religion (cult) or its leadership. As the 1st century Jew’s suffered God’s condemnation and disapproval in 70 C.E. maybe the Watchtower is receiving its just punishment now.

          It should be quite obvious to anyone with an honest heart and open mind that this man-made fabrication is not now or has ever been God’s earthly Organization for dispensing “the truth”. Why? Because there is absolutely no truth in “the Truth”.

          With flawed doctrine and inane interpretations of scripture, that most religious scholars do not adhere to, the Witnesses’ stagger around every 20 years changing their doctrine with NEW LIGHT that most of the sheeple can’t understand or keep up with. For
          example: The ‘Overlapping Generations’ nonsense which, although neuters Christs prophecy however, buys them more time.

          All of the Governing Body, throughout its inception, have had a hand in the sorry situation they find themselves in. For example:
          1. The issuance of false predictions /prophecies predicated on the interior dimensions of the Great Pyramid?;
          2 shunning of family members;
          3. protection of pedophiles,
          4. corroboration in the bribing of officials in Mexico in reference to mandatory National Service while inhumane persecution raged in Malawi over a $0.25 party card;
          5. misapplication of dietary blood ban on medical transfusions;
          6.organ transplants equated with cannibalism;
          7. refusal to except volunteer community service for National Service (military draft) in lieu of jail time thus brothers having a ‘criminal record’ that curtails reasonable employment;
          8. the wasting of contributions for ‘world wide work’ on palatial headquarters;
          9. ‘pink slipping’ Branch volunteers as they age without severance pay;
          10. refusal to obey ‘Caesar’s Laws’ in reporting sex offenders;
          11. joining the U.N. as a Non-Governmental Organization for 10 years making all adherents a part of BABYLON the GREAT; ad nauseam.

          Ricardo my friend, I could go on forever wasting your time with these proven facts. However, if you want to waste your time “praying for God’s forgiveness for our leadership” as I stated in the beginning “sometimes God says ‘NO’.

          • Ricardo says:

            @Big B, yes, we are in agreement, my friend.

            What really gets up my nose are comments like from ‘Destroy this WT and the GB will rebuild it lol.’ who appear to be witnesses who are so delighted with their organization.

            It was this dumbo with the long name (Destroy……) who was laughing at how much the witnesses annoy people at this site, I was telling him to be praying, not laughing.

            Because if the guy was a sincere Christian he would be shocked by the accusations leveled at the witnesses, and if the accusations are truth, the average witness should be asking forgiveness for the sins of our leaders, not laughing at opposers. But that dumbo (with the stupid long name) is a good Witness, he believes, as did the Jews with the temple, that Jehovah will never reject this organization.

            But was Jehovah ever supporting this organization?

            So my comments were for that dumbo to pray, not the GB. Although it would be good for the GB to pray for forgiveness, but as stated above they would be saying the wrong things.

          • dee2 says:

            Big B,

            BTW, where in the Bible does it explicitly state that the the scarlet-coloured wild beast of Revelation 17 is actually the United Nations (U.N.)?

    • chantal says:

      @Destroy this WT…why do you laugh when people’s lives, hopes, and families are being, and have been, ruined? Take care my friend, God is not one to be mocked. Be cautious of who you insult.

      • Ricardo says:


      • Lauralou says:

        I agree.

      • Big B says:

        @ dee2:

        The Bible or more specifically Revelation does not identify any of the beasts or even the harlot. That’s why there are so many different interpretations out there. The scarlet colored wild beast with the harlot ‘Babylon the Great’ is Jehovah’s Witnesses interpretation. The harlot representing false religion; read ‘non-Jehovah’s Witnesses’, especially the denominations of Christendom.

        That’s why I cannot understand the reasoning for having a N.G.O. membership to the U.N.(which the Dali Lama and the Catholic Church has as well).

        The Watchtower said it was to make use of the U.N. data bases at their library. The U.N. said that ‘anyone’ doing scholarly research can utilize their documents, (without joining the U.N.) which I did while doing a research paper in college.

        So, after expressly pointing out (before the 1963 release of Babylon the Great has fallen God’s Kingdom rules) that the U.N. was part of Satan’s system and those that supported it were opposed to God’s Messianic Kingdom, they didn’t follow through on their own admonition. They signed a membership paper that said they would ‘support the U.N. and its missions’. A library card, indeed!

        Once outed by the Guardian Newspaper they couldn’t get to the U.N. fast enough to tender their resignation. If this was all so innocent then why the silence and deceptive excuses. Just like a kid caught in the cookie jar.

        Just try to join the YMCA for the sole purpose of using their pool facilities and see where that gets you. Reproved (if not dis-fellowshipped) in a New York second.

        @ Chantal;

        I agree that a myriad of lives have been ruined by this maniacal lunatic fringe who dare call itself Jehovah’s earthly organization. Shameful isn’t it.

        @ Ricardo:

        Thank’s so much for the clarification. I agree, the G.B. either recognizes they are in deep trouble or they are totally oblivious to what is really happening in ‘the trenches’ outside of their ivory Watchtower.

        As long as the ‘sheeple’ continue in their subservience to the organization, not question policy, and sit there mesmerized in a blue haze of deception then the G.B. can continue to rule with impunity. However, to quote Bob Dylan “times they are a changin”. A mutiny of the ‘sheeple’ maybe in the offing. Wouldn’t that be something to write home about.

        • messenger says:

          @Big B,
          I can’t remember what I was reading when I saw this, it may have been in one of Ray Franz’s books, or a site similar to this one, but where ever it was, the source documented their find. What they showed was that the WT belonged to two political groups that included several other religions. The groups were formed to lobby for religious freedom and rights in countries where those rights were under attack. If I remember correctly at least one, maybe both groups were associated with the UN. But even if they were not directly a part of the UN it’s possibly each member had to be listed as an UN NGO to work with them, since they no doubt lobbied the UN in behalf of their cause. The documentation the source listed included meetings given by the group(s) with their guest lists showing the WT reps who attended-including their personal names.

          • dee2 says:

            So the WT joined and sought help from the very thing which they demonize (the UN)? What a joke.

          • Big B says:

            @ messenger:

            This truly is outrageous, working hand in hand with the scarlet colored wild beast, agreeing to its purpose and charter then, to make it all good, signing up as a ‘non-governmental organization’. What hypocrisy! Imagine joining an organization that is destined to be destroyed as a part of Satan’s system! Is it any wonder the friends have not heard a peep from the Watchtower? Really this is old news. They are killing the story with ‘silence’! Why? Perhaps the stampede out of the Kingdumb Hall would be likened to a fire in a theater! This is the main reason I left; the pedophilia protection and attitudes trying to resolve it was just the icing on the cake for me.

            “that the WT belonged to two political groups that included several other religions. The groups were formed to lobby for religious freedom and rights in countries where those rights were under attack”.

            It sounds as if they want to be a ‘player’ in world affairs (political intrigue) like the Roman Catholic Church. What in the world are the Watchtower G.B. thinking? Lets see, 800 million Catholics as opposed to maybe 8 million Jehovah’s Witnesses. I know their lawyer once mention in court that the J.W.’s were a “hierarchy, just like the Catholic Church”. Does the Watchtower want to be like the Catholic Church with all the power, worldly admiration, respect and wealth?

            If the above proves to be true, and I have no doubts that it may be, so much for their ‘trust in Jehovah’ and the ‘power of prayer’. It’s once again the pot (Watchtower)calling the kettle (Christendom) ‘black’.

          • messenger says:

            @ Big B
            I looked it up.
            Go to JW facts
            Click on scandals.
            Then click on political involvement.

    • Eyes opened says:

      Good grief man, wake up. If you want to defend the Watchtower and the GB then by all means do so. But do it based on facts and knowledge of the good, the bad, and the ugly. Your extreme loyalty is a commendable quality but it borders on idolatry. The definition of blasphemy is to put someone or something at or above the same level as God. The GB have already stepped in that one. If you doubt that, then pay closer attention at your watchtower studies. As the Bible says, let your reasonableness be known to all.


  3. twistedsister69 says:

    Funny. I just saw part of a new Canadian TV show called “Pure”, about a Mennonite community with a drug trafficking problem. Talk about Art imitating Life.

  4. twistedsister69 says:

    I personally knew a guy (who, oddly enough, claimed to be “anointed”, while he was in), who was booted out on his a** (DF’d) for being an alcoholic. Seems there are 2 sets of rules, 1 for the top brass, and 1 for the peons, kinda like the “world”. Reminds me of another Orwellian work (besides “1984”), “Animal Farm”, which carries the famous line: “All animals are equal. But some animals are more equal than others.”
    That says it all.

    • Ricardo says:

      The peons are noticing this. The heavy-handedness of our leadership toward the rank-and-file members is certainly not winning them many friends. The peons are angry. If I was an elder, I would be very careful, now, before scolding a brother for a trivial mistake. You guys (elders) have been left vulnerable by the clueless GB.

      • twistedsister69 says:

        Good point. Sun Tzu – Art of War: “If a commander issues a clear order, and it is not carried out, it is the fault of the subordinates. But if the order is unclear, it is the fault of the commander.”
        The GB either send mixed signals to the Elder Body, creating confusion and insecurity in the rank-and-file, or they issue directives that will leave the Elders “swinging in the breeze” if anything backfires.

        • twistedsister69 says:

          Sun Tzu – Art of War: “The successful commander leads by EXAMPLE.”

        • Winston Smith says:

          Yes, happened frequently when I was an elder. We’d ask headquarters for specific direction on a matter and follow their requirements to the letter. Six months later they’d write to us, “Why did you do that???”


      • Big B says:

        @ Ricardo:

        Spot on! “You guys (elders) have been left vulnerable by the clueless GB”.

        In some congregations in my area the elders have quit or been forced to resign due to health issues. (Extra stress for no enumeration).

        I’ve heard it from reliable sources that its gotten to the point that, in some congregations, elders do not want to hold the position of Coordinator of the Body of Elders (Head Pooh-bah for the Ali Baba Temple of the Shrine). This conundrum has caused the congregations to seek out other elders elsewhere to fill the vacancy.

        Carrying out the instructions (read “orders”) issuing out of Wallkill from a confused, delusional G.B., who will throw you under the bus rather than support you, is having the desired effect. Soon, no one will support anything or any policy the G.B. puts in place and the Schism will begin.

        The pertinent Questions should be not how much longer before Armageddon but how long will it take before the secular governments stomp a mud hole in the Organization and will it be before or after the Schism begins?

        • Ricardo says:

          Surely the Schism should happen soon. As the organization gets bigger it is harder to control (thus the GB takes more control, becoming the F & D slave so none of the spurious new annointed can take on the title). As the beliefs get weirder and the sins of the past catch up with them, and as opposition grows on the net and in public, as well as within the ranks of the witnesses, surely a schism must take place. Soon.

          • Big B says:

            @ Ricardo;

            You make an excellent case for the coming of the ‘Schism’.

            Makes you wonder if this group of Rutherfordites who dare call themselves ‘Jehovah’s Witnesses’ maybe the Evil Slave class?

            “At Matthew 24:48-51), he mentioned another possible outcome FOR THAT SLAVE (or, FOR THOSE SLAVES) when the Master’s arrival is later than expected. He went on to say: ‘But, if that bad slave (gr. ho kakos doulos ekeinos, or, the bad slave that) should say in his heart, My master is late in arriving, and then he starts beating his fellow slaves and eating and drinking along with the drunks, the slave’s master will arrive on a day and hour that he isn’t expected, and he’ll cut him down and assign him among the hypocrites… that’s where he’ll weep and grind his teeth’

            So notice that this bad slave was once a faithful slave, but he becomes discouraged during a long wait for the Lord’s arrival and falls into evil ways… ‘He didn’t come when we said he would.’

            So he starts ‘beating’ his fellow slaves by blaming them for expecting the earlier arrival of the Lord and by excommunicating or disfellowshipping any who might disagree with them and their false prophecies.

            History shows that this has truly happened (and continues to happen) to leaders of religious groups that have been expecting the coming of Jesus (‘the Lord’) through the centuries. For they’ve finally given up, allowed their ‘lamps to go out,’ and misused their position of authority to harm the faithful”.


    • Big B says:

      @ twistedsister69:

      Like Joseph Stalin was called; “first among equals”.

      Elders, ministerial servants and their offspring can have a lot more rope than the rank and file have in order to ‘hang’ themselves. Privilege does have its rewards.

  5. Octavio says:

    The natural question that emerges is : Why didn’t Raymond Franz expose these behaviors in his books? … It seems that Ray coexisted and danced with Bethel’s corruption and did nothing until he was directly affected.

    • Tim Drake says:

      Ray didn’t seem like the type of person who would want to air out this type of personal dirty laundry in his books. His books had a clear aim to expose organizational failures, not individuals. Plus, I’m sure he had close, personal ties with these individuals and probably considered them friends. It would have been bad form to expose their very personal struggles and transgressions in his books. It might’ve even de-legitimized his work in the eyes of his readers, making them think that all he wanted to do was smear his former employers. I’m sure Ray felt compassion for his former co-workers, even if they did end up participating in some way in his ousting. I think many of us can relate to that; feeling compassion for former friends who might’ve even slighted us personally. It’s hard to let go of friendships long developed over years.

      • Eyes opened says:

        Tim your point is very well stated. No doubt Ray had compassion for those who suffered the same indoctrination he did. He was fortunate enough to come to realizations about the org that lead him to freedom. I consider his books “must reads”.


    • dee2 says:

      I imagine Ray Franz would have suffered from the same brutal indoctrination like every one else, from which it would have taken him some time to extricate himself:

      – This is Jehovah’s organization chosen by God himself as his mouthpiece/only channel of communication on earth in 1919.

      – Everyone else except JWs are under Satan’s influence.

      – JWs are different from the world. They are superior to everyone else and they enjoy a spiritual paradise.

      – This is Jehovah’s organization and so we should leave any discrepancies, anything disturbing or any concerns in Jehovah’s hands as he will sort things out in his due time.

      – Should a JW notice anything disturbing and speak to an elder about it, the person voicing the concern is made to feel that they are the one at fault and are told that no one is perfect which is why we will have 1000 years to become perfect. Yet this imperfection caveat/workaround is not applied to “worldly” people who have been demonized, it only applies to JWs.

      All JWs including Ray Franz are captives of these concepts. It is very difficult for indoctrinated JWs including Ray Franz to extricate themselves from this brainwashing. It can take quite a while for the deprogramming to take effect.

      • dee2 says:


        Not sure if my comment addressed the point which you raised…….perhaps Tim Drake’s comment may have addressed your point better.

  6. Jado says:

    Hypocrisy is bound to this religion like Hydrogen and Oxygen in a molecule of water. The bond is so strong that even a rank file JW is first characterized by Hypocrisy.

    In one their pubication, one can read “Assyrians, Chaldeans, Hebrews, Syrians, and some Arabian tribes, are descendants of Shem. Ethiopians, Egyptians, Canaanites, and some African and Arabian tribes descended from Ham. Indo-Europeans are descendants of Japheth” (w04 1/1 p. 31 par. 5)!

    We Africans know what that “Hypocrisy” mean: https://mackquigley.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/ham.jpg and may be it is time for “Indo-Europeans” to feel the meaning of that, being “descendants of Japheth”!!!!

    In my opinion, their hypocrisy stem from Genesis 10:21.

  7. Octavio says:

    ….Also, the same drunken behavior was typical of Joseph Rutherford and some contemporaries in Bethel, the creator of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Read the Salter’s letter and Moyle ‘s letter to Rutherford.

  8. Nemorino says:

    I think Tran’s remarks, in fairness, are rightfully labeled allegations inasmuch as they by nature unverifiable. In my opinion, his comments on Karl Kein carry more weight, considering his first-hand experience. Certainly his comments relating to GB behavior at their weekly meetings must be regarded as hearsay at best.

    In the case of my own experience at Bethel in the Sixties, however, I can attest to the pervasive drinking culture there at the time. I recall at least five cases of alcoholism serious enough to require therapy, all involving senior members of the family, including two women married to high-level Bethelites.

    • James Thompson says:

      Not sure if actually listened to the interview, but he did not just work with Klein. Mr. Tran says he worked with GB Swingle too. He even was assigned to room with him. Worked with them and other GB members in their home, office, and bought their liqueur for them. I woukd say that’s a bit more than hearsay. In the interview he says he was sitting outside the meeting room and heard the noise inside personally. He also worked with other GBs.

      He also talks about an older Bethelite sister who was known as a drunk and used to “dry out” in the Bethel medical facility. He was a elder assigned to watch her and she wasn’t an isolated incident.

      If anyone is interested Mr. Tran also posted a lot of pictures and Bethel documents in the “JWPodcast Facebook group” that are very interesting.

      But listen to the entire program for sure, this article gives only a fraction.

  9. Ted says:

    I like a drink or two myself but I always drink responsibly ( I never
    spill any) . One thing though, I’ve never asked my wife to pour
    me some breakfast. That’s a major league juicer, often conflicted
    mentally, emotionally, anyway they’ve got serious problems.

    What can I do about my problem brother window cleaner, sorry,
    brother elder! Oh just become more immersed in the truth, Read
    the Bible, Pray, Boost your Field service . But brother will all that
    help me? Oh yes it surely will, I heard it from gb member bro,
    Karl Klein one morning at breakfast, when I was at Bethel.

    • dee2 says:

      I often wonder if God just magically changes a person who is an alcoholic or if it is the person, with the help of therapeutic intervention, who actually does the work themselves to get to the root of what is causing their addiction and identify the steps they need to take to overcome it?

    • twistedsister69 says:

      ha ha ha Yeah, just work harder in the “truth”, and your problem will dissolve away! Just go HARDER at all the SH*T that CAUSED or CONTRIBUTED TO your problem in the first place. That’s “Bible-based wisdom” for you! (Or should I call it “window-washer wisdom”?)
      Wasn’t there a sign above the entrance to 1 of Nazi Germany’s concentration camps, declaring (deceptively, in this case) to the prisoners: “Work Will Free You”?

      • twistedsister69 says:

        Why did the Nazis want their prisoners to work hard? Because they needed SLAVE LABOR to achieve their goals.

    • dee2 says:

      Alcoholism can’t just be prayed away. It’s a mental health issue that requires therapy.

    • Winston Smith says:

      “That’s a major league juicer, often conflicted
      mentally, emotionally, anyway they’ve got serious problems.”

      Spot on! The GB, for the most part, are victims of the same indoctrination as the rest. It’s probably worse for them, since they have peeked behind the curtain and seen that it’s all a bunch of smoke, mirrors, & snake oil. Can you imagine having to keep up the facade, half believing in it, half knowing it’s a bunch of bologna? Most of the GB are career bethelites, so they have no skills so as to make it in the real world. Most are up in years (although we have a few younger ones now). They have no retirement plan to speak of, so their only chance is to maintain the charade and hope beyond hope that somehow Armageddon will really come and release them from the hamster wheel they are on.

      I can only imagine that there is serious psychological damage done to a person who is forced to maintain such a delusion.


  10. Robyn Bass says:

    Just like all the JW men in my family & their friends, they were drinkers when I was growing. My uncle would drive with a bottle of scotch between his legs, he was what they called the “Presiding Overseer”. In later years he was disfellowshipped, but of course he was reinstated. My parents would go to his house after the book study & they’d all drink. My bro.in law & sister have been at Sydney Bethel for 20 odd years where he is a high up elder, head of a department & he drinks like a fish. My husband who has never been a JW always comments
    on how much they all drink.

    • twistedsister69 says:

      Honestly, I’m surprised I’m not an alcoholic. Thank God I’m thick-headed. Just the THOUGHT of droning through ALL those BORING, TEDIOUS, USELESS, POINTLESS, SOUL-SUCKING meetings/studies/assemblies/conventions/field-service mornings would be enough to turn GHANDI into a raging alcoholic. I mean, it’s INHUMAN. Add to that the pandering, driveling wording of the publications, especially the “Watchtower”, and the BIZARRE, RIDICULOUS, MIND-BENDING language/wording in the Bible (spoofed briefly and brilliantly in the “holy hand grenade” scene from “Monty Python and the Holy Grail” – when ‘Brother Maynard’ is asked to read the instructions from the “Book of Armaments” LOL)

      • dee2 says:

        LOL TwistedS,

        Gotta love Monty Python.

        “Life of Brian” is my fav:


        • twistedsister69 says:

          Loved that one too, Dee.
          “Always look on the bright side of life!!!”

          • twistedsister69 says:

            … “Ya come from nuffin’. Ya end up as nuffin’. What ‘ave ya lost? NUFFIN’!!!”
            ha ha ha

          • dee2 says:

            “Life’s a piece of sh*t, when you look at it
            Life’s a laugh and death’s a joke, it’s true
            You’ll see its all a show, keep ’em laughin as you go
            Just remember that the last laugh is on you……’

          • twistedsister69 says:

            I should stop, but my OCD needs feeding.

            “I can’t hear him very well. Did he say, ‘Happy are the cheesemakers’???”

          • dee2 says:

            “………for they shall inherit the earth……..”

          • dee2 says:

            ^^^OOOPS………”for they shall be called children of God”

          • Winston Smith says:

            Makes me reflect on all the JW mental gymnastics required to make their doctrines work.

            So if she weighs the same as a duck, she’s made of wood, and therefore…a witch!

            Becaus after all witches float because they’re made of wood, and you can’t simply build a bridge out of her, because bridges are also made of stone.

            Who are you who is so learned in the ways of science?


  11. Bright Lightbulb says:

    Perhaps all the “timely” articles about alcohol etc is a reflection of what is going on at HQ’s. Getting creepier and creepier.

  12. WideAwake says:

    Can someone tell me why “gluttony” is given a pass in this Totalitarian Religion?
    It is listed as one of the seven deadly sins, yet morbid obesity is ignored.
    What a bunch of GB hypocrites!
    Apparently they can DF the rank and file for smoking, drunkenness and a bunch of other stuff but GLUTTONY is given a golden pass.
    Maybe the GB is afraid if they did DF for gluttony they’d lose to many sheeple……. like a couple million!
    It’s all about the money therefore the more emotionally vulnerable people they can recruit the more money they can make.
    The GB are morally bankrupt and deserve no regard or respect.

    • Big B says:

      @ WideAwake:

      Jehovah’s Witnesses are not the only denomination that gives a golden pass to GLUTTONY. In fact, although condemning the consumption of alcoholic beverages to the point of ridiculousness (saying where the Bible mentions Jesus or Paul drinking ‘wine’ its really ‘Welch’s grape juice) the Baptists are really into big time eating; to the point of gluttony.

      Sometimes they (Baptists I know) are heavy enough to be two people. They step on the scale which replies “one at a time, please”.

      All joking aside WideAwake, I agree with you 100%.
      However, let’s not kid ourselves; if the W.B.T.S. was a corporation that answered to their stockholders (which they don’t have) wouldn’t those G.B.imbeciles be given a bum’s rush out the door and new corporate leadership voted in? I already voted with my feet along with my immediate family. Why? The Society will never, ever change. Why? Because they are God’s Faithful and Discrete Slave (or so they think).

      Another reason why the ‘democratic’ election of elders and congregation servants was done away with. It took the power out of the hands of those (sheeple) in the congregation placing it in the hands of the G.B. (who have, in turn,
      given the appointment/selection of elders and ministerial servants to the C.O.). And isn’t that what its all about, the gathering, holding, and incorporating of POWER and wealth. Oh, yeah I almost failed to mention MONEY, their real motivation!

      Yes indeed. ‘True Theocracy’ in action; yeah, sure it is. 🙂

  13. The Modeller says:

    I think it’s great that the GB are filling themselves with spirit.

    • dee2 says:

      Maybe this is the spirit that will finally guide the GB into all the truth (John 14:16 – 17, 26, John 15:26, John 16:7,13 – 15) so that they will finally after 130+ years get their doctrines right and there will be no more doctrinal flip-flops.

  14. Fifth says:

    I was at bethel in Wallkill, NY, USA and I definitely can attest to the fact that bethelites can be very heavy drinkers. This surprised me greatly because being from the west coast I was very naive and completely oblivious to the lack of “spiritualality” going on at bethel. Funny because I turned 21 at bethel and was given what is unofficially known as “the 21 talk” a few days before.

    The bethel elder reminded me that as “true christians” we are to stop at moderation, while the world draws the line between moderation and drunkenness to establish whether one has overindulged.

    The main takeaway from the 21 talk was this: if you get drunk while you are at bethel you are out of here. And if you drink even a day before you are 21 you are gone. I was not a heavy drinker (not saying that to praise myself I honestly just wasn’t really into it at the time for some reason), but I was amazed how drunk my roommate would be when he would come home. Or how wasted people would be when there was a room party and when they would be off of the bethel premises.

    Another surprise was the tradition of going to someone’s room before the gilead graduation for the sole purpose of drinking. Everyone engaged in this, from the older senior bethelites to the younger ones. As you can imagine, a lot of people would come to the auditorium or dining room for the graduation pretty tipsy if not wasted. Because of my indoctrination, I figured it was ok because Jehovah was allowing it. Looking back, I am thinking wow. What hypocrisy and evidence of a lack of “holy spirit” that bethelites swear up and down is very clearly present at bethel. Amazing.

    • Fifth says:

      Feel free to visit my YouTube page “Fifth” which is full of interesting interviews including one with a fellow former bethelite https://youtu.be/brSmXu7p6D0

    • Ricardo says:

      If anyone has seen that imbecilic Youtube video ‘Happy at Bethel’ you would see that the whole lot of them are drunk, or affected mentally in some way.

      If that video wasn’t a public demonstration that not all is well at Bethel, it would be hard to find a better example.

  15. ScotWm says:

    Stephen Lett’s talk supporting the Watchtower’s Pedophile Protection Policies is legendary. I have taken his pedophile speech and modified it to address the many tales of drunkenness at Bethel, coming from former Bethelites: “We can contribute to oneness by rejecting false stories that are designed to separate us from Jehovah’s organization. As an example, think about the apostate-driven lies and dishonesties that Jehovah’s organization is not permissive toward drunken Governing Body members and alcoholic elders. I mean that is ridiculous isn’t it. If anybody takes action against someone who would threaten the enforcement of the Governing Body’s drunken, hallucinatory prophesies and non-biblical rules, and takes action to protect our alcoholic elders, it’s Jehovah’s organization. We reject outright such lies.”

    • twistedsister69 says:

      ha ha ha I can just picture Stephen Lett’s eyebrows dancing up and down. lol Proves that there are actually 8 or 9 GB members, depending on whether Lett’s eyebrows count as 1 or 2 entities. And as a crazy conspiracy theorist myself, I believe Stephen Lett’s eyebrows are collectively known as “Legion”, and they are conspiring with Donald Trump’s hair to take over the world.

      • ScotWm says:

        twistedsister69: Aren’t all of the Governing Body members under the delusion that they are members of an imaginary group of 144 thousand who will rule in heaven with Christ? Fortunately, the Watchtower has explained what is really going on when these seven self-appointed, self-anointed men partake at the annual memorial: “The number of partakers includes those who mistakenly think that they are anointed … Others may have mental or emotional problems that lead them to believe that they will rule with Christ in heaven.” http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/memorial-partakers.php

  16. Ted says:

    TM3 always looks a bit puffy and bloated to me and
    he runs of at the mouth like someone whose been at
    firewater. Seemed to take delight in Jehovah roasting
    people like hot dogs at Armageddon.

    Then when he didn’t get the VIP treatment on a branch
    visit. He claimed they would get sorted out by his
    big brother. Yeah the stuff does make you aggressive .

  17. Doc Obvious says:

    What a fuster cluck!

    When I was at Brooklyn Bethel, I remember Karl Klein as someone I could not understand a word he was saying during morning worship. In addition, I remember doing sorting of recyclable glass bottles and the amount of alcohol (beer) consumed was amazing. I never saw so many empty beer bottles in my life.

  18. exjwlemming says:

    I don’t blame the Bethel heavies for over indulging in alcholic beverages. If my “career” was to mislead, manipulate, and deceive millions of honesthearted sheep, there would not be enough alcohol in this world to keep me from killing myself.

    • Rodger Goode says:

      Exactly, the psychological pressure of keeping up the act and seeing the cracks running up the walls must be a constant source of sleeplessness!

  19. Third Man says:

    “…many ex Witnesses (including myself) can relate accounts of heavy drinking taking place in the various Bethel buildings around the world.”

    What does you mean by “accounts of heavy drinking”? Can you provide any evidence, other than speculation and hearsay?

    As for “Morris scurrying away from a reporter as fast as his anointed legs could carry him”, this is nothing short of moronic.

    For a start, how did Morris know that this person was a ‘reporter’, and, perhaps more importantly, why should he stop for him anyway? Regardless of their position, no person is obliged to stop and talk to any reporter-or some non-entity describing himself as such.

    I don’t care what this so-called ‘reporter’ wanted to talk to Morris about, he had every right to carry on walking, or “scurrying away” if that gives you a bigger thrill.

    Typical gutter ‘journalism’. Taught you well, has Cdars.

    • James Thompson says:

      Third man, from what you just said, it’s obvious you didn’t listen to Mr. Bundy’s broadcast or Mr. Tran’s comments on the JWPodcast. First, you need to listen carefully to both programs, then your arguments will sound intelligent, better informed. It must be difficult to know you are a member of a deluded cult, many of us understand that situation, but there is hope. Honesty is a start.

      • messenger says:

        I knew a James Thompson that plays the sax..an American who has been living in Italy since about 1984. Are you one in the same, or do you just share the name?

    • Winston Smith says:

      @Third Man,
      Let me help you out since basic dictionary skills apparently elude you:
      information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate; rumor.

      Since the author speaks from firsthand experience, as well as the persons interviewed, it cannot be termed hearsay.


    • messenger says:

      @Third Man,
      I agree with you that Tony Morris evading the journalist is not incriminating, because he was probably following legal counsel, in which case to do otherwise would have been foolish. But what is your opinion about his statement-in a USA zone talk- that brothers of the age 23 or older who are not serving as ministerial servants are not Christian marriage material? Do you feel that is a righteous Christian decision to make, and a loving Christian opinion to share with the whole organization? And let me inform you, if you don’t know, it also contradicts a written statement by WT. For WT wrote that Jehovah has anointed some Christians (men) who are not appointed by the WT Society as elders or ministerial servants. In expressing your view also know that Anthony Morris prefaced his talk by stating that some in the audience might believe the comments he was about to share were nothing more than his opinions, but he claimed he had the written documentation right there(in his hands) to show that his comments were not merely his opinion.

  20. A Patient Man says:

    This is my 17th year of sobriety. I am a hanger on at AA and Al-Anon. I should be more regular, I will work at that. If you get up in the morning and you drink a few beers and then go and conduct the watchtower study, what do you think will happen to you? Yes I am that man! And yes they did kick me to the curb. No one told me to go get help, I did that all on my own. Later on they did not check with me to see how I was doing. Once the label of Alcoholic is on your forehead everybody will scatter. The gene weakness for alcohol in me is strong, but all I can tell you is today I did not drink. This religion will take everything out of you, it did with me. There was always the parents telling you, “you might not make it, unless you straighten up”. The CO’s and the DO’s, (they are gone), telling you, “you didn’t do that quite right”. The ones in powerful positions want you to perform miracles, “I can’t today I am drinking too much, I have no focus”. I am not surprised the ones who lead this band of merry men and women have trouble seeing clearly and speaking with clarity. All I can tell you is I like myself much more now that I am sober. The ones in this religion who drink too much, you are on your own! Get busy and get help. It might take you a long time to find someone who will be a true friend and support you on the path to sobriety. I could be your sponsor and tell you like it is, but will you humble yourself while you are at Warwick, or Bethel, get down on your knees and beg for forgiveness? Maybe you will find out the true definition of a higher power if you did so.

  21. Fifth Man says:

    To Mr James Thompson:

    I see you’ve gone with the tiresome default assumption that someone who posts a questioning response on this forum has to be a practicing Witness.

    I don’t know if Third Man is in that category, but you automatically assumed that he was. Not a very intelligent response on your behalf. (Even if he is a Witness, it has no bearing whatsoever on the validity of his arguments. It’s called the genetic fallacy.)

    I personally think Third Man made some valid points about the heavy drinking allegations, whether or not he has listened to Mr. Bundy’s broadcast or that JWPodcast. I imagine that you are familiar with the content of both, so why don’t you provide some clarification.

    Shouldn’t prove too difficult to cite some evidence-the sort that would stand up in court-that proves that specific individuals were heavy drinkers. Just a couple of verifiable facts will do; I’m not looking for a dissertation.
    (And please don’t resort to the ‘listen to the broadcasts’ evasion once again.)

    I notice that you completely ignored the points about Anthony Morris supposedly fleeing from a ‘reporter’. Again, perfectly reasonable as far as I’m concerned. If you think otherwise, perhaps you could enlighten me with your better informed arguments.

    I look forward to your response, and please refrain from the red herring cult/Witness issue. My religious beliefs have no bearing on the validity of the points I have just made.

    • twistedsister69 says:

      @Fifth man

      You may not be looking for a dissertation, but you sure DELIVERED one.
      … & what a fascinating story … I feel like I was there!

    • Ricardo says:

      @Fith man, how is someone to give evidence that stands up in court, at this forum?

      Let’s instead see if it passes the pub test. (This is I believe an Australian expression meaning what would the fair minded common man think from the reports.)

      We have had multiple eyewitness reports of drinking to excess at Bethel by an incredible number of people.

      I remember when I went to visit a brother who did translating in Timor, he asked me to buy some bottles of duty free Johnny Walker for him. He said he did a lot of bartering using alcohol in the Bethel. I complained to him while I was there that he drank too much, which I was to find was a very sensitive topic for him.

      Are the rumours here without basis? I think not. I know not. Wouldn’t it be better, instead of attacking those who have come forth with their evidence, to argue for some change in what happens at our Bethels?

      As far as the pub test is concerned, I, as a baptized active witness, believe these reports and wish our organization would act to control the use and abuse of alcohol in our Bethels.

      I see nothing wrong in the revealing of this wrongdoing, as done at this site, as our organization does not have an internal panel to listen to such voices.

      • Winston Smith says:

        Common JW response mechanism: if I can find someway to try to argue away the facts, then I don’t have to face them. It’s like their argument against the accepted date for Jerusalem’s destruction of 587/586 BCE. Let’s find any little strand we can tug on to try to discredit a mountain of evidence. Then spend pages and pages expanding on that little strand.

        As a former, long time member of this CULT, yes that’s what it is, it’s easy to spot others who underwent similar conditioning. So it’s no great leap to assume someone trying to discredit the facts of this article is at least a nominal member of the cult.


  22. twistedsister69 says:

    @Third man
    @Fifth man
    @Any Other man/woman

    I totally agree with you. Anthony Morris, as well as any other member of the GB, has the perfect right to RUN AWAY LIKE A LITTLE B*TCH!!!

  23. Sharon Christensen says:

    I have not as yet listened to the interview…but from personal experience…I know that alcohol consumption and antidepressants keep a good many wts going…the Pres. overseer of a cong. at a wedding came back and back for more spirits…My brother was the bartender…someone not classified as being spiritually mature enough to be a ministerial servant by this pres. overseer…well in no time…this pres. O.was doing the twist and shake, bird dance and poke you all together! Come next morn …pres. over wt study in a very fine manner! To this day a fine example of an..”older man” who has gone thru a few “older women”! Another cong. I was going to…beer boxes lined the hallway of several peoples appts. it was hard to mk it to the table! Esrls rest. and pub…Wed. night after service for pool and drinks…my sister in law and her husband…he an elder, her a frequent pioneer…tall glasses of wine…a few times a day plus “refreshments”…the norm. Look down at my husband and I who refrain from…but we are the ones who are to be avoided due to…”Apostasy”…go figure…whteves…Wineos …dinos…the whole bunch are a farce….

  24. Sharon Christensen says:

    Funny, Toni Morris made a run for it …not taking advantage of the opportunity to Expound to Trey the…truth”… as one is admonished to do at every opportunity…might have been Treys only chance to hear …” the good news”, according to …Toni Morris…shame on him! And I felt so bad for not telling the lady in line up behind me at the grocery store about…cuz everyone seemed in a rush, me included! I prayed for several nights that Jehovah…please forgive me! Now, For Tonis sake…I have to pray that Jehovah forgive him to! :-/

  25. Free Thinker says:

    Being drunk at the weekly GB-meetings, even taking booze along? Makes perfect sense: The needed the SPIRIT – strong SPIRITS, in fact, to get the inSPIRation for their divine revelations. Finally, we know how “New Light” comes about – under THE INFLUENCE of the SPIRITS. As if we had not yet known this. The “overlapping gen”-b…s..; the “in 1919 the GB came to be”-nonsense, and much more is nothing but a load of DRUNKEN NONSENSE – that explains it all. CHEERS and BOTTOMS UP!!!

  26. twistedsister69 says:

    Know why the JW Apologists have a Third man and a Fifth man, with nothing in between? ….. WAIT FOR IT ….. Because the Fourth is not with them.

  27. twistedsister69 says:

    PS Can’t figure out why you Devoted JWs/JW Apologists comment on this site, engaging with us scumsucking apostates. I mean, WTF are you Overlapping-Generation Armageddon-Fire-and-Brimstone End-of-the-World types worried about anyway??? Isn’t your sky-god “Jehovah” going to fulfill all your dreams when he zaps all the infidels, leaving you to achieve your lifelong ambition of forever rolling around naked with baby pandas? If I were you (and thank the Good Lord (the real One) I’m NOT), I would be walkin’ on sunshine, dancin’ on the hilltops like Julie Andrews in The Sound of Music, singin’ in the rain like Gene Kelly in, well, Singin’ in the Rain! I mean, hey, those pictures in the “Paradise” book, etc, looked pretty appealing. All those happy folks dressed in their transmulticultural garb, toting around baskets of pineapples, etc. All smiling like they had just taken a hit of morphine, or just finished smoking something they picked out of the woods (gives a whole new meaning to the term “burning bush”). And there always seemed to be this beeeauuutiful home somewhere in the background. I always wondered, “Whose house is that?” And who would need a house??? Did “Adam” and “Eve” need a house? Will there still be snow, hail, and sleet? Anyhow, I digest. One thing that bugged me was I never saw the Starship Enterprise in those pics. I guess space exploration is just not in the cards for you guys. Pity. Seems it’s your dream to remain here with the baby pandas, continuing the drill that began here in this “system”. Just pray there will still be lots of liquor.

    • Free Thinker says:

      Trust me – there WILL still be lots of liquor, bec. that’ll be the only perceivable way to cope – see Micah 4,4 “But they shall sit every man under his VIIIINE”, which passage – so the 7 inSPIRed CEOs of JW.Org claim high-handedly – refers to their promised “New Paradiese Earth”. What can you make from vines??? Bingo … And you also can do a lot of good stuff from “FIGS”, which are also mentioned there – like, the Turcs make “Rakı” from it – goooood stuff! So, our happiness and well-being in “Jehovah’s soooooooooon to come, promissssed New Earth” is assured. Prost, Skol, Santé, Nasdrovye and Mazel Tov!!!

    • Winston Smith says:

      The devoted JWs can’t be happy to sit back and simply wait for their slice of paradise, while their sky god annihilates all the scum sucking apostates, because deep down below where their authentic self is smothered by their cult self, a little piece of reason still exists and keeps demanding to be heard. They try to ignore it, they try to squash it, they try to keep busy with “theocratic activities,” they pray it will just go away, but it doesn’t. That little piece of residual logic keeps telling them: “You’re being lied to.”

      Thus they feel the need to come on sites like this to see just what the scum sucking apostates are saying. When they hear what is really going on, that little piece a reason buried so deep says: “Aha!” But that just irritates their cult self and they set out to crush that little piece of reason by lashing out at the apostates who are actually speaking what they know is true. That’s why they must sputter all the JW dogma. It’s not really about us apostates. It’s about themselves, about their own doubts that they know they are not supposed to have, but just cannot seem to get rid of.


      • dee2 says:

        “That’s why they must sputter all the JW dogma. It’s not really about us apostates. It’s about themselves, about their own doubts that they know they are not supposed to have, but just cannot seem to get rid of.”

        Well said WS.

      • twistedsister69 says:

        Spot on, WS.

  28. twistedsister69 says:

    Dear Goodness. Why would a big bad Vietnam War veteran, who saw men die, feel the need to scurry away from a humble reporter who just wanted to ask a coupla harmless questions? Unless the reporter was wearing black pajamas, a non la, and carrying an AK47. Then again, perhaps Tony Morris experienced a flashback at just that moment!

    • twistedsister69 says:

      ha ha ha I can just picture Tight Pants Tony bursting into the Bethel, running down the hall, screaming, “Gooks in the wire!!! Gooks in the wire!!!” Poor fella. No wonder he needs so much booze.

      • twistedsister69 says:

        Steve Lett’s eyebrows would’ve flown right off.
        Tony, if u’re reading this,…….
        I N C O M I N G ! ! ! ! ! ! !

        • twistedsister69 says:

          Steve Lett is the only GB member with a viable escape plan. If WT ever gets pinched, his eyebrows will spin around like propellers and fly him away.

      • OntarioNB says:

        Maybe TPT thought the GT was starting and he had to get to the bunker.or maybe he was having an IBM.(involuntary bowel movement)

        • twistedsister69 says:

          ha ha ha Good one. But if it’s an IBM, which end does it come out? I know, that’s how they give their talks, and come up with “New Light”. ha

  29. twistedsister69 says:

    Sun Tzu – Art of War: The greatest Generals can stop a thrust from 1000 miles away.
    That reporter got WAY too close.

  30. twistedsister69 says:

    Sun Tzu – Art of War: Build a Golden Bridge for your enemies to retreat across.
    The GB make it excruciatingly difficult, instead of ridiculously easy, for dissidents to quietly slip away.

    • Winston Smith says:

      Hence their downfall. They force people like us into a corner where we have no choice but to fight back through activism.


  31. twistedsister69 says:

    Sun Tzu – Art of War: There is no instance of a nation having benefited from prolonged warfare.
    WT just keeps FIGHTING and FIGHTING and FIGHTING…….

  32. twistedsister69 says:

    Sun Tzu – Art of War: Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
    WT scorns every opportunity to come clean.

  33. twistedsister69 says:

    Sun Tzu – Art of War: He will win who has military capacity and is not interfered with by the sovereign.
    WT micro-manages the lives of their Elder Body and Rank-and-File.

  34. twistedsister69 says:

    Sun Tzu – Art of War: He will win whose army is animated by the same spirit throughout all its ranks.
    Is WT animated by the same spirit throughout all its ranks?

  35. twistedsister69 says:

    Sun Tzu – Art of War: Even the finest sword plunged into salt water will eventually rust.
    JWs consider the bible to be their “sword”, and it’s assumed to be pure on its own. Yet they corrode it with all their interpretations & “new light”.

  36. twistedsister69 says:

    Sun Tzu – Art of War: If the mind is willing, the flesh can go on and on without many things.
    Clearly, JWs, from the GB on down, are self-indulgent – heavy drinking, gluttony, creature comforts (e.g. GB members flying Business Class, new lakeside estate), etc, etc, etc.

  37. twistedsister69 says:

    Sorry for the “Art of War” blitz, but I just wanted to emphasize how MIND-F*CKINGLY STUPID the Watchtower Society is.

  38. ruthlee says:

    I have only one thing to say for this weeks post……. CHEERS ruthlee

  39. twistedsister69 says:

    Just looked up origin of “apostate”. Comes from the Greek “apostanai”, meaning “to defect”. That’s where WT gets confused. WT, we’re not defectIVE, we’re defectORS. Got it now?

  40. Ricardo says:

    @twistedsister69, have you been drinking too much? You must beware, don’t follow the example of the JW leadership.