I honestly thought it was a joke.
When I first saw the image opposite being circulated online, I felt that it had to be a piece of satirical art, created by an Ex-JW. I mean, I knew Watchtower had been increasingly stooping to lower and lower standards with increasing desperation to wring every last penny out of their increasingly impoverished flock, but…come on!
Surely not even Watchtower could be so crass and unsubtle as to create a child’s game where the whole object of the game was to donate money to them!
Turns out, I was wrong.
The puzzle was a genuine piece of Watchtower art, although I was rather amused when former Jehovah’s Witnesses Tony Brock posted a slightly altered version of the game onto Facebook, to present his own suggestion of where the child’s donation might ACTUALLY be going if it made it through the maze:
Even active and faithful Jehovah’s Witnesses will be aware of the truth of much of this cartoon. The Governing Body have increasingly been flaunting their jewellery, expensive suits and designer watches on their JW Broadcasting appearances, and the extravagance of the new Watchtower headquarters with it’s remote control lake is hardly a secret.
Yet the last item on the list; the increasingly painful legal damages that Watchtower is having to pay, mostly centred around Child Abuse policies, that one that will be unfamiliar to many Witnesses.
Ironically, this unknown and hidden aspect of Watchtower’s financial outgoings might be the one that increasingly comes to dominate their fortunes. According to the Australian Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse, Watchtower’s policies and doctrines come together in a “perfect storm” to create an environment for sexual predetors to molest children, undetected and unreported.
The thing with storms is this;
Storms are expensive, y’all.
Storm Damage
Day 7 of the Australian Royal Commission investigation into Watchtower saw this exchange between the Head of Watchtower Australia Terrance O’Brien and Justice Peter McClellan about the issue of financial recompense.
McClellan:You know that the Commission’s been looking at the issue of redress, I assume?
O’Brien: I do, yes.
McClellan: And it is fairly clear that the Commission will be recommending a response which brings together all of the institutions where there may have been problems, to contribute their fair share ‐ you understand that?
O’Brien: I recall that from the closed hearing we had with yourself.
Financial Redress has been a key area for the ARC. It’s hard to argue that organisations who failed in their duty of care and exposed children to sexual abuse should not be required to give some measure of financial compensation; not only to address the significant medical costs involved in treating the physical and mental damage suffered, but also to show recognition of the wrong done. The ARC has discussed this idea in detail, even presenting models as to how it might work:
“…relevant criteria could be severity of abuse – 40 per cent, impact of abuse – 40 per cent and distinctive institutional factors – 20 per cent. Other approaches are possible. Average payments of $50,000, $65,000 and $80,000 are modelled.”
In other words, this model suggests that the severity, the impact of the abuse, and the degree of specific failings of the Institution should be taken into account. It then suggests some average payments.
McCellan: Would you recommend that the church join in such a scheme?
O’Brien: I don’t know whether I would recommend that the church join in with other organisations, but certainly that we have some redress scheme of our own to care for victims who are Jehovah’s Witnesses. I would agree with that.
McClellan: Why wouldn’t you recommend that you join with others so that there is a uniform response across the country?
O’Brien: If I may just indulge, your Honour, when we had the closed meeting with yourself and others, that was a matter that I think it was almost universally felt as a last option by those who were assembled, for a variety of reasons. I think some may feel that ‐ would it be fair on smaller organisations and unfair on the ‐ or, rather, unfair on smaller ones, fairer on the larger ones? To manage it I would see it as a much greater difficulty than for the individual organisation to provide their own scheme.
McClellan: You must have a different recollection to me.
This is part of a longer exchange which demonstrated how Watchtower is frantically trying to pour water on the concept of a financial redress scheme administered by an outside authority, with agreed and standardised amounts for victims.
Why would Watchtower be so afraid of a system like that becoming law, as is very possible in the next couple of years in Australia?
Well, remember what O’Brien said: Would it be “fair” on the smaller organisations?
That sounds like a reasonable concern until one realises that Watchtower is a “smaller” organisation unlike any other the Commission have investigated.
Watchtower: A unique stormfront
Unlike an organisation that simply reports to the police as soon as it becomes aware of an allegation of child sexual abuse, Watchtower policy not only refuses to do this unless legally required, but also requires the elders to start investigating the allegation themselves to determine guilt in a bronze-age religious court, thus opening themselves up to far greater liability than a regular church or group.
Additionally, it’s been clearly demonstrated during the ARC hearings that the process the elders are mandated to use is virtually guaranteed to cause further needless trauma to the survivor.
Therefore, it’s significantly more probable that cases linked to Watchtower (such as the 1,006 Witness molesters the ARC has already identified) will be eligible for compensation when compared to cases from other organisations of a similar size.
Keep that in mind as we craft a theoretical scenario that admittedly makes a lot of assumptions, some of which will fall in Watchtower’s favour for the sake of fairness.
Lets assume only one victim per abuser (and not, say the four victims involved in the case of BCG, who gave testimony at the Royal Commission). That gives us 1,006 potential claims identified by the Royal Commission.
Now assume that out of those 1,006 potential claims, only half of the victims are found to be eligible for compensation and in a position to claim.
Now assume that only half of those survivors are found to have directly experienced additional trauma due to Watchtowers’s policies, and qualify for a higher sum than a default of $65,000. Lets say the higher figure is $80,000.
So you’ve got 250 times 65,000 = 16,250,000 and 250 times 80,000 = 20,000,000
Now add those two figures together and what do you get?
An eye watering $36,250,000!
And remember, this scenario is making some assumptions that are significantly more favourable to Watchtower than the evidence suggests is reasonable.
Recurring Storms: No end in sight.
But we’re not done yet, because another fascinating glimpse under the hood of Watchtower Australia was given on Day 7 when Watchtower Lawyer Vince Toole admitted under questioning the following statistic about his role at the Watchtower Australia Legal Desk, taking reports of child sexual abuse from congregations across the country.
Angus Stewart SC: You say you’ve done this exclusively for, did you say, two years or two and a half years?
Vince Toole: Yeah, approximately two years, I’ve been taking the calls myself.
Stewart: These are calls about allegations of child sexual abuse?
Toole: Yes.
Stewart: And how many such calls have you taken in that period, would you estimate?
Toole: I couldn’t tell you, but we probably get three, sometimes four, a month.
Again, let’s be generous to Watchtower. Let’s assume four new cases of abuse a month, but say that each of those reports involve only one abuse survivor, and that of those four survivors a month, only two are eligible for and desirous of compensation. Again, lets assume that the $65,000 default sum is the one decided upon every time because by some miracle Watchtower managed not to exacerbate suffering when they indulged in their demonstrably flawed judicial process.
So 2 victims a month is 24 victims a year.
So that’s 24 times 65,000…
…$1,560,000 per year!
Now, there are around 80,000 witnesses in Australia. Remember, that figure will include people who are fading or who have faded, and thus do not donate, as well as rank and file JW’s who are either very poor or simply forget to donate a lot of the time. But assume for argument’s sake that every single one of the 80,000 donates money of around $20 a month.
Divide the arguably conservative sum of $1,560,000 by the arguably generous figure of 80,000 publishers.
$19.5 dollars, right?
That means that if a witness donates $20 a month, almost 1/12 of his entire yearly donation will go simply to paying the annual child abuse bill.
That’s AFTER they spend around two years paying off the initial lump sum of $36,250,000.
Granted, these figures are theoretical, using models and sums yet to be agreed and passed into law. Much could happen between then and now.
Nonetheless, the scenarios are plausible, and it’s clear if you read between the lines of O’Brien’s testimony that Watchtower also thinks they are plausible, and are very worried as a result.
Which is probably one of the reasons why I strongly suspect that the crazy maze at the top of this article won’t be the last piece of low-brow piggy-bank shaking we will see from an increasingly beleaguered Watchtower.
Thank You, great reporting.I appreciate your updates each week.
It boggles my mind that WTBS refuses to change their stand on this..I served as an elder for 10 years and remember recieving their guidelines for Child abuse…as secretary I was the second one to recieve the correspondence…I remember reading this letter at home after the meeting and telling myself that I did not want any part of this…I questioned the legality of it all but more important the MORALITY of adhering to these orders being barked from head office. I told myself that this is NOT something I would do….at one point in time we must ask ourselves if we are showing the love unto others the way we should be but keeping quiet on child molestation and not helping the real victims and their families. this is the first time i have written on this blog..and I am disgusted to read that after being 10 years removed from the “TRUTH” that things are still the same if not worse as they now hold kangaroo courts and with hunts on the victims and their families! I tend to wonder what Jesus would do…Hmmmm… I think we know how he would ! God bless the victims and families.
Thank you for speaking out on this injustice against children.
Regarding: “It boggles my mind that WTBS refuses to change their stand on this…” (Pedophile Protection Policies.)
If the Governing Body changed the Watchtower PPP, it would be an admission of wrongdoing which could result in even more lawsuits and unfavorable judgments. The Watchtower Governing Body members have proclaimed themselves to be Guardians Of Doctrine (GOD). It is unlikely they will change any doctrine that will expose them to additional lawsuits.
This is perhaps the ultimate proof that it is not God’s organisation. They are in a no win situation. If Jesus really had been directing them all this time, why would he have let it get to this point? Wouldn’t he have anticipated this years ago and “refined” the organisation and its policies ahead of time?
If they were to admit now that they have had the child abuse policy wrong all this time and were to adjust it (rather than become more entrenched in their faulty position and strengthen their resolve to fight efforts at reform like they are actually doing) it could very well bankrupt them. The same goes for shunning, false predictions, faulty medical advice and other false teachings and practices. An apology and an admission of guilt and culpability now would only open the floodgates of litigation even further. Instead they are trying to slow down that litigation pipeline as much as possible, by any means, compounding their mistakes with more lies and deceptions, in order to make sure the bank balance doesn’t run out before the settlements do.
The fact that these are all unchristian practices goes without saying, but it also proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that God has not blessed or backed this organisation for the simple reason that if this was really “the truth”, all of these issues would have been anticipated and resolved decades ago.
Instead they now find themselves in a position where they can’t go backwards without going bankrupt, and can only go forward by persisting in false, damaging and unchristian practices and policies which are becoming increasingly untenable and self-destructive.
This is further evidenced by their attempts to appeal to those who have walked away to “return to Jehovah”. The stats show that it is getting harder to make new converts in the modern era where Watchtower is easily exposed for what they are by that powerful truth serum, the Internet. Anybody contacted today only needs to Google JWs and discover the WHOLE truth about them. So instead they are trying to recall those who still have some emotional attachment to the organisation; perhaps through family and friends, personal history, sentimentality, fear, guilt, or all of the above. This smacks of desperation, but it is also evidence that they are losing the battle. Instead of reforming they are trying to tighten their grip. Either way, it is clear that God is certainly not backing, let alone “speeding up” this work.
In fact, if this really was God’s organisation, JWs would have set the benchmark on all these issues long ago, especially child abuse, and this really would differentiate them from “the world” and all the other “false religions” they condem so vehemently. Instead of now treading the same legal path of all those they have persecuted, they should have been head and shoulders above them all (especially the head!)
You are missing the point! By the way, what is the truth? Do you think you are more intelligent than the GB is? You are not teaching them as they know very well what they do? False predictions, they know better than you!
Things are simple: “Victory” is more important than “truth”! Consider what they wrote about America back in 1955:
*** w55 5/1 p. 275 Vacuum in Ideals? ***
[…] It believes that you can’t fool all the people all the time—but that you have to respect the politicians and promoters who manage to do so most of the time.”
Eric:
Everything you mentioned in your comments is absolutely true. This has been nothing but a evangelical Adventist “Millerite” throw-back from its inception. Just as the Millerite movement died out during the “Great Disappointment” back in the mid-1800’s so the Watchtower Adventism is now in its convulsive death throws.
It can’t apologize and say they were wrong because it would prove that they never had “God’s backing” much less be “His spirit directed organization”. They cannot retreat from their current position and lose all credibility. It’s now their policy to quote Admiral Farragut at Mobile Bay, “damn the torpedoes – full speed ahead”.
As the entire “Organization” crumbles around them they, like the Nazi hierarchy in Berlin, have taken a “bunker mentality” grasping at any fantasy (read:New Light) to pull themselves out of the jaws of certain oblivion. Their unreliable “credibility” and spiritual bankruptcy is now evident for the entire world to see. All one need do is, as you said, check out the internet.
Eric Arthur Blair says: “An apology and an admission of guilt and culpability now would only open the floodgates of litigation even further.”
It appears that the Watchtower’s current strategy is to stall the lawsuits by filing legal appeals and motions. The Watchtower accounting department has probably analyzed the costs involved in posting bonds for legal judgments and the ultimate payment of these judgments.
These projected payouts are then weighed against the Watchtower’s multi-billion dollar portfolio of real estate investment properties, contributions and other investments. At this time, the Watchtower legal and accounting departments have likely determined that slowly liquidating Watchtower assets will allow them to remain solvent for many years.
However, the one thing that can totally destroy the Watchtower’s positive financial position would be the loss of its tax exempt status. And with the number of government investigations underway, this tax exempt status may be threatened.
At this time, there is probably major disagreement among Watchtower leaders. Those who are totally deluded may actually believe that Jehovah’s earthly organization will never be destroyed by governmental forces. The leaders who know that the Watchtower is a total scam may be running scared, knowing that their days are numbered.
Accountants and lawyers are in a perfect position to steal the Watchtower’s ill gotten loot. Will those running scared embezzle millions in Watchtower assets as the walls come tumbling down?
I think the Watchtower saw this coming a few years ago. The old “light” was that false religion would be destroyed and somehow Jehovah’s people would be saved and eventually the government’s would go after them. Now, it’s all fair game. I believe it was a 2013 WT that brought that out. So now that their tax status in question and if they lose it, WT will say it’s persecution and will reference the 2013 WT and will say they predicted it and all Witnesses will say the end is coming because the governments are going after them. I could be wrong about the new-ish light, but that’s what I recall.
According to WT theology the governments/UN will go after the JWs LAST – God will put it into the hearts of the governments/UN to destroy all other religions first and leave the JWs standing. The JWs must be the only religion left standing in order for Armageddon to strike.
It seems however, that God has got his schedule mixed up based on the punitive actions which may be taken against the JWs. God seems to be suffering from amnesia – he has forgotten that he should put his thought into the hearts of the governments to destroy the JWs LAST instead of first………lol.
And now they are apparently saying that the tribulation is happening now. The naive follower will see the tribulation of the WT & will bury themselves deep into cult loyalty. Hopefully, they won’t be as silly as the Heavens Gates Cult & wait for the mother ship to save them.
Hi Grace.
Have they actually said that in print, or was it a talk? I’ve not heard that reported yet.
Can anyone say, “offshore accounts” or secret “Swiss bank accounts”. I think you are correct in thinking so ScotWm. I can believe these scoundrels would do exactly that if they haven’t already absconded the monies. After all, who is watching the Watchtower, has anyone seen a copy of their accounts reports?
Pleading poverty and begging for more funds while building their new multi-million dollar compound at Walkill, NY and purchasing more property in Florida hardly proves hardship to me. Just hiding the funds from the abuse victims and if that’s the case, failing miserably.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/281355/florida-gold-coast-latest-watchtower-real-estate?page=1
Covert Fade,
No print, just hearsay from the Australian Zone visit.
Watchtower is paranoid and greedy. Since they are being backed into a corner I think they will take desperate measures to insulate themselves. Such as closing the Australia branch and moving their funds to some other country where it can’t be touched. They are a slippery bunch.
The Watchtower could decide to leave Australia due to the increased “persecution” they are currently experiencing. The only problem is that the Watchtower cult might have its real estate assets seized by the government as collateral on unpaid court judgments.
These old 8 roosters are only respected by the flock who would not believe anything negative about that gb. But I am sure that justice will triumph. And if justice does not triumph then how can we really believe in an almighty God? The watchtower must fall. I have more respect for Isis than I do them. I know Isis is a killer and they boast about it.But the watchtower tries to put on a show of being righteous but they are just a dam group of men using religion as a front.That means they are more wicked than Isis. I also have more respect for the mob than I do Jehovah witnesses.
8 Roosters! – Did Donald Trump really join the GB??
His son-in-law has apparently purchased some Brooklyn estate for a considerable sum, maybe a connection there?
As one who has been in this org 50 years and seeing the made push to do everything on line with the blue square .i think they will separate from the watchtower completly and be just jw .org. already on the mags and any leaflets the WT logo is getting smaller and smaller. Soon there will be new light and they will come out with some “scripural reason ” to separate and avoid responsibility for the pay outs …
Sinking ship it is. Only in 2014 i started to see all ‘mistakes’ , manipulations and mankind religion. Nothing to do with Jesus or Jehovah God. But all religions are in the same, only mankind
Johnship:
Bingo!
It is now and has always “been about the money”. Just like the Vatican, monies in and bs* policy (read: doctrine) out. The Watchtower attorney has said it outright “we’re just like the Catholic Church”. A very successful “extortion business” if there ever was one. Between the pedophilia cover ups, racketeering and extorting contributions from their adherents for over 1,000 years what more successful business plan could the Society follow?
There are some millionaires who claim to be a JW. So persons like ‘Prince” who have A. Morris III design clothes and shoes can easy pay …….They have properties enough the GB world-wide and should sell. People can have the meetings at home they go to tell. In Tbilisi , Georgia they sack 30 persons from the local ‘Bethel’ branch. No work, no house , no money. And people are afraid to speak about such unmorality.
Excellent article as always. The redress amounts you mentioned are definitely plausible – no wonder the organization is so money crazy these days!
Had a discussion with a Witness a month ago. As I’m disfellowshipped and considered an apostate this Witness was not following Organisational guidelines. This Witness was kind and loving to me and keen to know how I and my family were going. There was no condemnation or preaching just a genuine interest. I was thinking how nice it would be if there was a policy that allowed a loving exchange. Anyway during the discussion the Witness was saying that at almost every meeting there is a scripture read and an appeal for more money to support the worldwide work. As a result this Witness said that he has not contributed for months and there is murmuring in the congregation about “what are they doing with the money”? The rank and file are stirring. There will be a mass exodus. I planted a seed and explained to him that there is a need for money to pay compensation to child abuse victims. He had not heard of this so it’s obvious that there is a huge Information filter in every Kingdom Hall. It’s just a matter of time. I made my way from JW to Christian and absolutely love my freedom in Christ. Peace to all.
On the issue of money, being that I have been following the current trends on the organization. We attended a circuit assembly on Sunday, in Nigeria, one of south south state . Before the morning session was concluded, the circuit account servant came over to announce the circuit account. We were about 3800 in attendance. He announced about the deficit the circuit had before the convention, the announce the surplus as a result of contributions during the convention and then said something I expected him to say. That based on per capital income, based the total number in the audience, the contribution that they expected from us should be over a million naira. Most of the people in attendance laugh and sincerely, I know that they didn’t understand what that meant or what the Watchtower was actually doing. I believe something similar has been done in other circuit.
I remember telling the person next to me that they are indirectly telling us that we have not contributed enough.
I know what the organization has turned to, and really from they history, they weren’t that good. But they are really turning into something else.
Eeee,
The following information may be of interest regarding the Circuit Assembly deficit and contributions:
– Why is there always a Deficit at the Circuit Assembly of Jehovah’s Witnesses:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=APb1RpfjCrA
– Circuit Accounts Servants Confesses how the SCAM WORKS:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/62001/circuit-accounts-servants-confesses-how-scam-works?page=1&size=20
100% correct on the circuit account scam. I used to work in accounting at the circuit assembly level. There are some expenses like electricity, upkeep, and maintenance to be sure, so there is some level of legitimacy. But also consider that since they are so strict as to what these buildings can be used for, you are paying to maintain a building that sits empty more than half the year.
WS
Hey Eeee,
I’m from Nigeria too and a live in the same geographical region. I’m happy to know there’s someone like me here. Since I read Raymond Franz’s books, I have concluded this can’t be “Jehovah’s organization”. But that’s a tough act.
I’m still a ministerial servant, but I haven’t been out in field service since my questioning from elders came some months ago. And I was a regular pioneer and was planning to go to School for Kingdom Evangelizers, but I’ve realized that’s a shaky career…if at all it is a career, with all their financial woes.
I’m held captive by my family, as I’m a third generation witness. Can’t leave, at least not now. I’m on some sort of suspension and marking because of my questioning the elders — it’s been over six months since I last stepped on the platform. It’s tough for the witnesses here because I was always very active and they’re asking questions, at least since they’ve not heard about me being reproved or disfellowshipped as those are the people who don’t get to climb the platform (most times).
Not speaking from the platform is sweet relief for me. One elder gave a talk on the outline “How Can You Find The True Religion?” and he mentioned that witnesses have not been involved in child abuse cases, like Catholic Church has been, and have had to pay out millions of dollars and even close some parishes.
I turned to look at everyone…since I was standing near the notice board and it’s at the back of the hall. They all shook their heads in agreement. I couldn’t imagine preaching that from the platform with all I know, and I couldn’t help but think how Watchtower has kept us all ignorant, all these years, and people call it the “best education”, or “sumptuous spiritual food”.
It’s just sad how gullible people are. They believe the governing body cannot lie to them and keep boasting about how dynamic the organization is. And I realize it’s dynamic to them because that’s all they know and can see.
Sorry if I veered off topic. Have a lot to say that could fill up a book.
Is that a typo or are they serious, when they said “give money to JEHOVAH”????
One thing I have to say is that those dudes on JW broadcasting are not wearing good suits. If you would notice how most of the suits drape over their chubby bodies it indicates that they are cheap fused suits and not more expensive canvassed ones. Also their ties look like they are from the 1990s. I would venture to say that none of them are wearing Brioni, Isaia or even Canalis. They are probably hand me downs from Joseph A Banks. I don’t think any of them would know what a good suit was anyhow.
The insurer’s are covering the abuse compensation costs for the Chirch of England – so is this possibly the same for JW’s?
Is it possible that they are not directly paying for these claims?
SwimmingWild
Excellent work CovertFade
from my post earlier this month..
Today on 31 March 2016, it was reported that the Christian Brothers had resolved 205 claims of historical abuse in the last year alone, with payments exceeding $20 million.
Now if we extend this average payout of AU$100,000.00 to the Watchtower Society’s perpetrator list of over one thousand documented pedophiles and assume they abuse five victims (possibly about average for a pedophile) then we have 5,000 victims and with an average payout as listed above this amounts to AU$500,000,000.00.
Five Hundred Million Dollars.
Now everyone knows why the WTS is shuffling (hiding) assets faster than the eye can see.
Now everyone knows why the WTS is begging for cash.
Perhaps instead of trying to escape their obligations they should imitate Christ by facing up to the overwhelming evidence and trying to do something for the victims, instead of denying, prevaricating, postponing, delaying, disputing etc., all tactics designed to wear down any claimants and let’s face it, the adverse mental health issues that are occurring because of all this denial & obfuscation are very real.
So there we have it. FIVE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS in Australia alone. This would have to make the “two witness” rule the most expensive misapplication of all time.
It will be interesting to see what the effect will be when compensation is enshrined in the legislation the Royal Commission is proposing. We believe it will encourage many more to come forward as they will be able to do so confidentially and without threat or fear of the Watchtower Society as it will all be assessed by an independent and supportive body. Bring it on!It will be interesting to see what the effect will be when compensation is enshrined in the legislation the Royal Commission is proposing. We believe it will encourage many more to come forward as they will be able to do so confidentially and without threat or fear of the Watchtower Society as it will all be assessed by an independent and supportive body. Bring it on!
Obviously taking the extreme position here.
The final result will lie somewhere between the two.
Whatever the result it will be “eye watering”.
let them taking ever their underweares because these people are useless they do nothing good only harming people. lets hope other countries wake up and do what australia did.
Covert fade sorry but this is pretty flawed logic. Wishful thinking perhaps? If anybody really objectively analyzed what you wrote they would be able to see your assuming way too much to come to the conclusion you want.
Markie
Which part of the logic do you feel is flawed? You make a bold statement about flawed logic and wishful thinking, but with zero specifics. If you want to counter argue a point, please be our guest – but make a point to your argument, or your statement is without any merit.
Cheers,
John R
My point is not to draw an argument but to point out that your logic is not very sound. For example, you assume that 2 out of every three or four calls a month that the Society gets in Australia the Watchtower would be found culpable of some type of maleficence. What basis do you have to assume that? Or is that just wishful thinking? What if it was a false accusation, or the elders told the victim to go to the authorities? Or the case had simply nothing to do with congregation. From my experience it is very difficult if not impossible to prove that a third party should be held responsible for the actions of others.
I do believe that the two witness rule is ridiculous in these cases for obvious reasons. But it is my understanding that the direction is now that victim can go to the authorities if they choose to do so. And I am not sure if that wasn’t always the case.
And don’t get me wrong, I do believe that if the society is somehow culpable of some type of wrong doing in regards to child abuse they should be held responsible. I just don’t believe it is always the Societies fault. They are just the ones with deep pockets.
Ciao
Markie, to your point on the 2 out of 4 calls a month being potentially liable for compensation:
I stated from the outset that was an assumption for the sake of argument. However, it believe it is a reasonable assumption based on the following facts:
1: The odds of a child making a false accusation are very low. Research it if you’re not aware of this.
2: It is safe to assume that any report being passed to Bethel will be processed according to Watchtower policy (Two Witness rule, non reporting unless legally binding, untrained elders interviewing a vulnerable victim etc)
3: These policies have been found by the ARC to unequivocally case additional harm to the abuse survivor.
You point about the victim still being able to report is addressed in the ARC: Some victims simply cannot report (a lone child living with her lone parent abuser, for one) or feel that they cannot do so due to pressure from others. Again, this was all demonstrated during the ARC hearings. And even if the victim DOES go to the police, they will still have been subjected to harmful Watchtower processes in the meantime which would qualify them for compensation under the proposed scheme.
@Markie
>>>this is pretty flawed logic.
An opinion piece is suddenly flawed? Seriously?
>>>If anybody really objectively analyzed what you wrote …
I am somebody! It’s objective and there’s enough due diligence to make the reasoning sound from Covert Fade perspective.
Now, what do you know the others don’t?
IMHO
dogstar
PS Great write up Covert Fade on the available data.
Markie.
Happy to have someone point out the specific flaws in the article, but in order to do that you’d have to, y’know, actually point out the specific flaws and not just wave a vague hand of disagreement in the general vicinity of an actual point.
Over to you: Please proceed with you objective analysis.
Replied to the wrong person, see reply to John Redwood. Not trying to cause an argument but your analysis is certainly not objective. Maybe you were not trying to be objective. I don’t know.
I think it was brought out by the Royal Commission that there was 1000 cases of child abuse reported over the last 50 years or so. Maybe I am wrong but it appears that most disgruntled exJWs believe that the Society was somehow culpable in all these cases but the reality is that we don’t have any idea what has happened in any of these cases. What they were about at all.
I always get a chuckle when Brothers or the Society mention the Catholic church and their problem with pedophile priests. The truth of the matter is that there are sick people everywhere regardless of what religion they may or may not be. And yes the JWs have their share of problems just like any other group of people.
I am sure there has been many cases mishandled by the elders, cover ups and so on but I know of one incident that happened to a close friend of mine in the 1980’s and the MS that did it ended up disfellowshipped and spent time in jail. I think that case was handled correctly by the elders.
I’m sorry but I have to chime in your last couple of sentences. You said “I know of one incident that happened to a close friend of mine in the 1980’s and the MS that did it ended up disfellowshipped and spent jail time. I think the elders handled that one correctly”.
Unless YOU served on that body you don’t know that it was the elders who did anything besides just disfellowshipping the MS. Sounds like the same kind of wishful thinking that you are accusing covert fade of.
I say this because 1. I served as an elder for over 10 years and I can guarantee you that the elders did not come to a unanimous agreement to call the police. NO WAY NO HOW. 2. Because the guidelines forbid them from doing such.
Now let’s consider the more likely scenario’s. The victim or their family contacted the police. The matter became well known and was gossiped about leaving the elders no choice but to act judicially. ONE of the elders called the police. Remember ONE not the body, which means he acted independently. Any of these scenario’s is completely plausible. You can say I wasn’t there but neither were you. Or did your friend tell you that the elders phoned the police? Although I was not there I am intimately familiar with the inner workings of judicial committees and how they work. So your conclusion on the elders “handling things correctly” is based on hearsay.
Be careful when use the term disgruntled ex-JW. Any ex-JW has a good reason to be a little pissed with the treatment the org dishes out on a daily basis with impunity. Then you follow it up by saying that “don’t know what happened with those thousand cases”. That’s true, but do you know what we are aware of ? That watchtower had a record of all of these individuals. So now you want us to believe that out of 1006 ” accused ” (to use your theory) pedophiles that it’s possible NONE of them were pedophiles? Or only a few of them? That may not be what you said but that’s how it sounds.
I don’t mean to sound offensive to you Markie. These are simple observations I’m making based on your comments. Also, there are some logical fallacies in your comments. The 1000 pedophiles may not be pedophiles comment you made is one of them. These are propaganda techniques and should be avoided in a respectful dialog.
Not to be offensive to you but you sound like a very disgruntled exJW. Sorry that you were so hurt by the Society. I hope when you were an elder you were kind to people.
Where did I ever say that of the 1006 cases that it was possible that none of them were pedophiles. I simply said that we don’t know what happened in those cases and why is it always assumed that the Society was at fault for something in those cases. Please reread what I said.
I will have to ask my friend who called the police on the MS. It probably was his mother. But he was disfellowshipped.
When I was younger I went to law school and I can tell you of many abuses I suffered at the hands of elders during that time and still do today. One of the elders actually grabbed me by the hair and asked me what the hell I was trying to prove. A few years later he asked me to help him out with some legal issue. Hell I have even had them comment about how wrong higher education is during the Watchtower study then right after the meeting ask me some legal question.
I for one have quit donating any money to the Society about 20 years ago. I figured my money is tainted and they don’t need it.
Like I tell me wife the GB said it all when they decided to move out of Brooklyn and move to Warwick. If they really believed that we are living “deep” in the time of the end they never would have bothered to build that place.
So I do see things quit wrong in the organization but to simply put the blame on the Society for every pedophile case is just not logical.
I do believe the Society is completely responsible for all those 1006 pedophiles not being reported to the police because there was not even one of those pedophiles reported to the police. The odds of that happening to 1006 people not having been reported to the police can’t be a coincidence.
Actually Markie, we do know what happened in these 1006 cases.
We know that an accusation of abuse was made, and we know that the society handled the accusation with their internal policies. We know that the accusation was never reported to the police, otherwise it would not be part of the 1006 “unreported cases”
This was all shown under testimony from Watchtower’s own people during the ARC, and backed up with Watchtower’s own records.
It was also shown that these polices are incredibly harmful to the survivor and that Watchtower’s internal sociological environment puts great pressure on survivors not to report. It was also shown (from Watchtowers own records) that many of these unreported abusers went on to abuse again.
Therefore, it is reasonable to state that a large proportion of the 1006 cases will be eligible for compensation due Watchtower increasing the suffering of the suvivor.
These are the facts from the ARC hearings. If you’re going to dispute them, feel free, but you will need more than anecdotal evidence to do.
“McCellan: Would you recommend that the church join in such a scheme?” – why not join the scheme?? JW claim to have things under control, that there are so few abused. What are they scared of?….oh, of course, the facts. The fact that there are many victims, and the fact that they do jack to help the victims. They are only concerned with covering their own backs.
John Redwood/Covert Fade….please check with Cedars to be certain, but as I recall, this person “Markie” is a troll and has caused difficulties on other threads.
Regarding this article…GOOD WORK! I thoroughly enjoyed every word and agree with your intent! Keep it up!!! Makes my heart feel so better that the “bread” they have tossed on the water is coming back to them in a huge way! The amount of pain and misery they have dished out will now be theirs to enjoy!
Hi AussieneedingComfort.
Thanks for the kinds comments.
On the other issue I’ve seen many of Markie’s posts and I don’t consider him to be a troll. He has not been abusive. I’m hoping he will reply here with some specific points of criticism which can either be debated or accepted, as his current post doesn’t really add anything to the discussion.
I am a troll causing problems on other threads? What do you mean by that? Does having a different opinion cause one to be a troll?
In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion,[3] often for their own amusement – Wikipedia
Markie, I typically disagree with the statements you make, but I don’t think they make you a troll.
WS
I agree, I don’t think Markie is a troll. I think that it’s good for the website moderators to allow differing opinions. We don’t have to agree with them. Sometimes I think Markie is just being sarcastic.
As far as mazes go, it’s pretty lame, even for a child’s puzzle. Two completely distinct solutions, each with 2 different paths available, for a total of 4 possible solutions. Maybe this is meant to represent all the different types of donations Watch Tower will accept, from cash to jewellery to real estate to life insurance policies.
Haven’t been going to the meetings but Walmart seems to be the place to bump into the bros and sisters. The other day I bumped into one of the nicest couples in ‘my’ hall. After pleasantries the sister made a remark that took me back as it was unprovoked. She mentioned how the society is crying out for money. Her and her husbands thoughts were that it was because of the internet and obviously no one was donating to the magazines anymore. Then she mentioned how the renovation on ‘our own’ hall had been halved financially…. how the building of the new UK Bethel was on hold… I gave an off the cuff remark about the Warwick building work still going ahead and she gave me a quizzical look. I mentioned that when I first came into the ‘truth’ a comment from one of the governing body was that when the money runs out …… I stopped about then because it wasn’t the time or the place… but I saw them look at each other. Now this little maze thing. Yes, the minions are slowly noticing something isn’t quite right in the societies pocket book.
Who do you think will pay the bill?
*** w10 11/15 pp. 20-21 ‘Let Us Present Jehovah’s Offering’ ***
“Your servants have taken the sum of the men of war who are in our charge and not one has been reported missing from us,” they told Moses. They decided to present gold and various ornaments as Jehovah’s offering. The total weight of the gold ornaments amounted to over 500 troy pounds (190 kg).—Num. 31:49-54.
‘Let Us Present Jehovah’s Offering’ , who knows how much Africa pays? What about Europe and Asia?
‘Let Us Present Jehovah’s Offering’
http://thewatchtowerfiles.com/money/
Great article with sound reasoning.
ummm! The GB seem to not know what children are for. They miss the point of their little maze. If you give a child a puzzle or a game , it is expected to give them the reward , The encouragement is for the child to find delight in achieving something. We all know the saying “taking candy from a baby” and these charlatans would fleece even the little children. Are you not supposed to lay up for your children and not expect them to lay up for you? These men are not just greedy but desperate. They would hoodwink innocent children into parting with their love tokens from their parents and grandparents , only to feed the GB greed and deficit. Let’s add insult to injury. How many JW’s are born in so didn’t even get converted off the doors so have always contributed to this cowboy outfit ? How many were molested so are entitled to a payout and not a contribution to the corrupt Tower? And how many of the younger generation will follow the pied pipers and not actually get a proper job so will always struggle for money the way we do? As it is there seems to be money making scams at every turn ie assembly deficits. What now at every meeting we have a TV show to keep costs down and damn begging letters always with a misquoted scripture. As my Asperger child so eloquently put it in his pointed truthful and rapier wit style”why don’t they set up a praypal account, so we can click at the touch of a button?” I had to smile because that IS really funny and might just give the greedy men ideas.Ruthlee
Keep in mind too that this organization has always had trouble holding on to the children who are “born-in” once they grow up. Used to be about 50/50 that they would stick with it and is probably less than that today. They are definitely doing more to try to get their hooks in the kids as early as possible and this maze is certainly geared toward that goal.
WS
And another thing while I’m at it (on a roll here). How on earth do they expect to get any money back in the future if they damn the kids to eternal window washing and cleaning toilets? Here in Britain you need to clear around £1,000 per month to pay your way in rent , car taxes, food and fuel. So how does a “humble” window washer do this unless he goes under the radar and claim housing relief from the government. (hardly relying on god!) or fiddles the tax? I really don’t know how they manage. I don’t actually care what they do but I know they would struggle to help out in any lawsuits if for some reason they suddenly become vicariously liable through ignorance. So I reckon they all better start saving the kids money as there are some mighty expenses coming that I suspect the Gb will worm out of and trap the fools in the tower to cough up. I think you can tell i’m annoyed at the blatant misuse of power, yet again , against children. ruthlee
@ruthlee, “misuse of power… against children”! You need to think deeper to understand how British children are being “killed” in another way!! Imagine now, a child recruited in Watchtower or born from a Jehovah’s Witnesses’ family will be subject to the same education (from Jehovah) as a child born in the bush somewhere in the “dark continent”!!
No race should boast of being superior or having high I.Q, all depends on what people are exposed to and schools they attend. Theocratic schools is an irrefutable proof of that.
Interesting points hakizimana , but I think Jw lala land is an American whiteman’s religion. Also in my experience (being the mongrel mixrace that I am ) Everyone aspires to the American dream in one form or another. Having said that, it is just a dream and like icecream can be sold then the seller moves on and the dream melts. Believe me I think very deeply on many points made here. In Britain kids have fantastic opportunities at school and higher places of learning which is why we have such and influx of bright young hopefuls. I wish them well. However every jw child that is deprived of its entitled free education here in Britain to be home schooled by the cult , is projected back beyond Victorian times when the system was set up. That is a travesty of human rights and human justice. Those kids leave school clueless and have but two qualifications in life expert cleaners of aforementioned windows and self appointed ministers of watchtower.Reguardless of intellect. I cannot speak for other countries or systems , I can only speak for a brown person who grew up with a browner father in a white culture and a white religion. I hope my comments do not offend but a spade is a shovel and I am not trying to be contentious just my take on things. cheers! ruthlee
The more I look at this picture the more disgusted I am. As if their policies toward children haven’t been shameful enough, they have to resort to sly, underhanded, manipulative exploitation and coercion. They are training the next generation to pay for the abuse of the previous generations.
In one of my earlier postings, I proclaimed there needs to be more court cases against the JW Org and I will continue to pray for that to happen so that their funds will start to dry up. Then I hope the majority of JWs will see through the plastic carrot this organization is putting in front of ordinary JWs that have sacrificed much of their youthful life worshiping an organization instead of God.
Bible and Bible-Based organization will continue to be a burden to humankind until even a peasant understands it. Consider what Jehovah’s Witnesses wrote back in 1981…
*** g81 11/8 pp. 21-22 Is the Bible a White Man’s Book? ***
To most blacks of southern Africa there are only three racial divisions—blacks, whites and Asiatics, and they classify Arabs, Jews and other peoples of the Middle East, not as Asiatics, but as whites. However, just as there are different nations and types of blacks so there are different types of whites. The entire Bible was written by Israelites, or Jews, who are Orientals, or people of the Middle East—but not of the white European races who conquered Africa. Interestingly, Moses, the man who wrote the first five books of the Bible, was born and lived in northern Africa until he was 40 years old
Now, as far as the bible is considered, we have same cries as Europeans! Shunning our loved ones, family splits, burden of elders, child abuses… as a price of Bible study! Let us all pay the price if power is to shift from where it used to be.
@Hakizimana:
“Moses, the man who wrote the first five books of the Bible……”
Just as an FYI, some points to consider as to whether or not Moses actually wrote the first five books of the Bible (Pentateuch):
– There are two creation stories in Genesis:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/ev_bibl.htm
– The Flood story appears to involve the meshing of two separate stories:
Genesis 7:15: In the story of the Flood, these verses have Noah collecting two of each species of animals – one male and one female. Genesis 7:2-3 specifies 7 pairs of clean animals and birds and 1 pair of unclean animals. Genesis 7:11 describes water coming from the heavens and from below the ground to generate the worldwide flood. However, Genesis 7:4 describes all of the water falling as rain. Genesis 7:11, 7:17, 7:24 and 8:3 specify different intervals for the flood duration which have no apparent resolution.
– Exodus 33:7 describes Moses entering the Tabernacle. Yet, the Tabernacle had not yet been built; its subsequent construction is described in Exodus 35.
– Deuteronomy 34:5-9 describes the death, burial, age at death, physical condition at death, and mourning period for Moses. It is difficult for an individual to describe events at and after his or her death.
– Deuteronomy 34:10 states: “There has never been another prophet like Moses…” (NLT) This sounds like a passage written long after Moses’ death. Enough time would have to had pass for many other prophets to have arisen, to pass from the scene, and to have been evaluated.
– There are stories which have been described twice (doublets) and in some cases three times throughout the Pentateuch. These doublets appear to contradict each other. In most cases, one of the stories in the doublet refers to God as Yahweh while the other story in the doublet uses the term Elohim.
More arguments against Moses’ authorship of the entire Pentateuch can be found at:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_tora.htm
@dee2,
I think in the article “Is the Bible a White Man’s Book?” (g81 11/8 pp. 21-22) ,the GB want to teach us that “as there are different nations and types of blacks so there are different types of whites.”! More importantly, they want to tell us that the “Bible was written by Israelites, or Jews… not … European races who conquered Africa.”! Moses was mentioned to emphasis that the Bible was not written by Europeans who unfortunately brought it in Africa.
That is the message conveyed in the GB’s article.
Hakizimana,
This is off-topic but here is my take on what the Bible really is, in a nutshell:
The Bible is a book about the Jews and their history and what they wanted; it is a book about how a failed Jewish hope became foisted upon the rest of mankind – when the Kingdom of Israel failed to permanently establish itself as a sovereign nation it then began to look forward to an apocalyptic in-breaking of God to set up the Kingdom of Israel that would incorporate the whole world – the Kingdom of Israel thereby became the Kingdom of God:
Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said to them, “Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Luke 22:28-30:
“You are those who have stood by Me in My trials; and just as My Father has granted Me a kingdom, I grant you that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and you will sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
The Bible is a book about how the Kingdom of Israel re-invented itself to become the Kingdom of God – we are victims of a nationalistic agenda.
******The Bible is a book about how the FAILED Kingdom of Israel………….
I wonder how the Bible is becoming a curse for all humankind, in more than 230 lands… The GB wrote about LIVINGSTON as follows:
*** w74 11/15 p. 677 Africa’s Churches Weigh Past and Future ***
“Instead of opening Africa for Christianity, he paved the way, at first, for the slavers who followed him into previously undiscovered territories. Also, ‘the introduction of God’s word was to presage the destruction of God’s creatures.’ After the Bible, came the gun.”
“After the Bible, came the gun.”, what about Europe? How was the Bible introduced in Europe? How are we now sharing the same cries from the Bible? How are we having the same bible educational programme?
“After the Bible, came the gun.”! My ancestors had to suffer because of the Bible and I am suffering because of the same Bible!
People suffered when it was forbidden labeled “apostates” and now people suffer when they read it labeled the same “apostates”!
Hats off to you for seeing that. Can anybody live by the Bible? Most certainly not!! They could try and if they actually made it to Mark 16:17-18 where it says that true believers can drink poison and be fine…well…anybody for a nice warm cup of bleach and a bikkie? For anybody to TRULY follow the Bible they would find themselves going around in a confused circle (if they survived) while constantly shooting themselves in the foot now and again and even then, feeling guilty about that. What they would perceive as themselves being weak for failing to understand gods word is actually their inability to understand something that can’t and never will be understood and not recognising that. Why is the Bible, after 2000yrs of total and intense study and discussion still not understood. Why can we shoot a probe off into space towards a passing comet travelling between 4,000kms and 40,000kms per hr, move alongside it at EXACTLY the same speed, land on it and start sending data back to earth, but we can’t understand the bible? If anybody suggests it’s because we’re not spiritual enough, I’ll scream. It’s been said that the Bible itself, in it’s entirety, is the single biggest case for Atheism available. I agree with that.
……..Don’t forget the agnostics and the deists.
….and don’t get me started on these so called ‘last days’ we’re living in. If anybody can be bothered, try Googling ‘Our World In Data’. There you will find a more believable picture of current world trends which point to things being exactly the opposite to what is portrayed in the Bible. Exactly opposite of what the Watchtower is desperately ramming down peoples throats by way of their attention grabbing catch phrase – ‘War, Earthquakes, Famine’. If you look like you’re starting to drift off at the meeting, out it comes. If you having trouble understanding the overlapping generation crap, out it comes to quell any doubts and don’t think too hard, just believe!
Famine? Apparently 786 million people worldwide are obese now so we can ditch that one.
War? Despite what we see on telly, war deaths are a mere blip. Pretty much the same as motor vehicle accidents at about 1.3 million per year. Any mention of the tragic loss of lives on the roads in the bible? Watchtower? Any cars in the bronze age? Nah!
Earthquakes…..we need ’em. Earthquakes and volcano’s remind us that the earth is a moving and evolving thing with a molten core that gives us the magnetic field which shields us from the damaging rays of space. We simply can’t survive without the magnetic field. If earthquakes and volcano’s stop, well then we really are in serious trouble. So…as much as we don’t like them….. if it’s hot, don’t touch it!! If the ground opens up…run away!! Don’t just stand there waiting to be rescued by a supernatural being. We left childhood behind. That reminds me of a song – ‘Puff the majic Dragon’. Maybe it should be sung at the K.H.
Today, who wants to be warmed like did David?
(1 Kings 1:1-4) . . .Now King David was old, advanced in years, and although they would cover him with garments, he could not get warm. 2 So his servants said to him: “Let a girl, a virgin, be found for my lord the king, and she will wait on the king as his nurse. She will lie in your arms so that my lord the king may feel warm.” 3 They searched throughout all the territory of Israel for a beautiful girl, and they found Abʹi·shag the Shuʹnam·mite and brought her in to the king. 4 The girl was extremely beautiful, and she became the king’s nurse and waited on him, but the king did not have sexual relations with her.
I think that is a case of child abuse!
I got into trouble for having that book lol….. ‘because it’s about drug abuse!’. I still have the book ;)
Wow good stuff I’m reading, however, no one mention the progress our fine women and sisters in the KH are having.
What you say?, The day of prayer – for almost an over lapping generation or 65 years, this group has not invited your 7 men of shameless. I guess they don’t want to cuddle with the most unholy.
Every JW should be asking, why not be part of a movement worldwide for the healing and mending of humanity.
I remember a man called Jesus, he believed in such a movement, why?
I understand he cared.
Interesting read and history – our Women and sisters.
History and Alternates
The Women’s World Day of Prayer started in the USA in 1887, as Mary Ellen Fairchild James, wife of Darwin Rush James from Brooklyn, New York, called for a day of prayer for home missions,[2] and Methodist women called for a week of prayer and self-denial for foreign missions. Two years later, two Baptists called together a Day of Prayer for the World Mission. The Day of Prayer initiated by these two women expanded to Canada, then to the British Isles in the 1930s. The movements focus on ecumenism and reconciliation led to growth after World War II. Since 1927 the March day is known as Women’s World Day of Prayer. Catholic women were allowed to join the movement after the Second Vatican Council, beginning in 1967, and united what had been their May day of prayer with the March Women’s World Day of Prayer in 1969.[3]
Two other Christian denominations celebrate a World Day of Prayer in September. The Unity Church, a New Thought Protestant denomination headquartered at Unity Village, Missouri celebrates a twenty-four-hour World Day of Prayer principally on the second Thursday in September (member churches may start at sunset on September 11, and the themes differ from those of the Women’s World Day of Prayer set forth below).[4][5] Also, the terrorist events of September 11, 2001 prompted the Knights of Columbus, a Catholic fellowship, to designate that date annually as a World Day of Prayer for Peace.
Through the World Day of Prayer, women are encouraged to become aware of the other countries and cultures and no longer live in isolation. They are also encouraged take up the burdens of other people, to sympathize with the problems of other countries and cultures and pray with and for them. They are further encouraged to become aware of their talents and use them in the service of society. The World Day of Prayer aims to demonstrate that prayer and action are inseparable and that both have immeasurable influence in the world.
Peace out,
Greetings to all,
The “world day of prayer” is held each year on ‘cinco de Mayo’ for the Britt’s its May 5,
I will join our fine women and sisters in the KH and encourage – morning and afternoon prayer.
Then I’ll fine my Beach with a case of coronitas or coronas and celebrate ‘cinco de Mayo’, both are great causes.
Peace out,
@Outandabout, well said, yes, the Bible itself, in it’s entirety, is the single biggest case for Atheism available
Listen, obey, and be redressed. Sounds more like it.
Some more “Be Generous” imagery:
http://41.media.tumblr.com/aee57d67517f3453645893e7d0e661a0/tumblr_o5g1htzDov1u6z4apo1_1280.jpg
More here: http://goo.gl/jyJIlF
Print out and give to JW children to play with at the meetings…
An older elder friend of mine that died years ago once said to me never trust a man that wears a pinking ring. So I have always mistrusted men that wear them especially this dude. I can’t really tell if that is a Rolex or not. I would think it isn’t due to the fact that he appears to be wearing a really cheap suit and tie.
Bill, I love the second pic, it’s really good. I think I’ll send it to some people to stir them up a bit. You could add so many more to it.
I guess we have a long way to go if we really find it necessary to convince “Jehovah” that he/she needs to change his point of view about child abuse!!
Remember, the same “Jehovah” impregnated Mary, a virgin, when she was 13 or 14 years old? Imagine a god, the ancient of times, impregnating a girls of 13 a teenage!
Sadly, what the same god writes on teen pregnancies shows that it is fast at pointing fingers on humans:
*** w78 10/1 p. 27 Insight on the News ***
in the United States about a million teen-age girls had become pregnant during the preceding 12 months. She added: “Of this number, according to data from the National Center for Health Statistics, approximately 600,000 will give birth, confirming the fear that teen-age pregnancies in this country are reaching epidemic proportions.”
I notice the GB never says they’re wrong. I believe they are a for profit organization. When it comes to the lawsuits They’re pooping their pants. Maybe they think admitting they did anything wrong is a weakness and will make things worse for their org. The GB can’t be chosen by Holy Spirit.
we have just had the zone visit & phone hook up for the 3 hour meeting, the only mention was of the 40 refirbs & 10 new halls built here in OZ, our hall had a 1/2 refirb, i believe the Government will go after them for unpaid GST, they are broke & need/want money, when i was secretary i always challenged them about the GST, we had a flat & a written rental agreement with the tenant, we were collecting GST & keeping it, one tiny example, i know of another hall where telstra are paying to use the ground for a tower, this has been going on for over 20 years, again they keep the GST. But as we know they will just says its an attack from Satan & this proves where we are in the stream of time, bumpkin, i havnt given a cent in many many years
I just finished watching the monthly video on jw broadcasting for the month of April. It reminds me of a Saturday Night Live skit. It shows a blind brother playing soccer with the brothers and it shows a sign language video of a guy with a huge rafter in his eye. It reminded me of a Saturday Night live skit
Thank you for the info. It must be very disturbing for the average Witness to learn of all this or are the facts withheld from them? I suppose they have to be. We have a phrase in the UK called “spin-doctoring” used by politicians to gloss over the truth and I believe the Watchtower Society are masters of that. But like all counterfeit commodities they only really show up in the light of the genuine.
On the elders course at the London Bethel, in the 70s,
the class was instructed to target young people in the
ministry. It was claimed the elderly were too set in their
ways to change. / And of course, young fit people can
be turned into active and productive recruiters, whereas
it’s less likely with the elderly ( My thoughts ).
At that time the org, was riding the “Gravy Train”, coming up
to 1975 record increases in publishers, money to burn.
Just a few months ago their tune had changed. Now
publishers were encouraged to seek out the senior
citizens, and to try and get access into retirement homes
and old peoples care homes.
As stated, there’s little gain as far as additional recruiters are
concerned. But the Ancientry (Shakespearian ) often have
acquired other valuable assets during their lifetime. Need I
say more!
Scary! They are targeting the old folk’s homes so they can talk them into giving all their assets to the Org in their wills. I have heard of some heavy duty pressure being brought on these poor old ones. It’s not right! Can you say “coercion” or “blackmail”? If you have old folks in a home, talk to them and to the staff and make sure they all know that JW’s are not to try to “study” with them or harass them in any way. It is wicked that it has come down to this!!!
You are so right. My JW step mother tried to get one of her elderly bible studies to make a will giving all of his money and everything he owns to the society when he dies. She says its to bad he doesn’t want to do that. He prefers to give it to his family. When she told me I backed him up. I told her I don’t blame him for wanting to leave it to family. She went on to argue and argue and argue with me. I feel it’s terrible. It shows how brain washed the members are.
Thanks for linking to my video!
I can’t believe the amount of years i waisted and the amount of money I lost with the iws. If only I would have known. I came from a very disfunctional family. I made the members of the congregation my family, especialy when they gave a public talk and the speaker said that there were orphans in the congregation. I fell into the trap. I was in for 25 years it’ been 15 years that I’m out. I didn’t have a father to guide me in anything. I am greatfull that I have taught my daughter every thing I know, now she is leading a very productive life and she is nobodies fool.
When my mum was dying she intimated that she would like to give her money to WT, we kindly talked her around, it is disgusting, & i think people are waking up
When my mom died a couple of years ago, she left me written instructions (not in her will) to give WT about 250k of her estate of just under 1M. Needless to say, I ignored those instructions, since I was the executor and that money went to a worthwhile cause instead (me). Thankfully, she didn’t change her will before she passed, I would have gagged if WT had managed to get their grubby hands on my inheritance!
Good for you, Donn Johnson! I absolutely laughed until I almost fell off my chair at your comment.
Thanks, Holly – my mom had lots of time to change her will, had she truly wanted to. Instead, she left it up to me to give away a quarter of her estate by writing it in a letter for me to find after her death. Needless to say, I followed her will instead, and while WT did get some cash (a tiny fraction) since it was in her will and I had no choice, there was no way I was going to throw away that kind of dough! In the end, WT doesn’t even so much as a thank you letter for the money they did receive, or even simple condolences, nothing. It would have been the same even if they’d received 250K.
Not sorry for ignoring my mom’s wishes, as I said she had plenty of time to change her will had she wanted to. I think deep inside she knew it was a scam and couldn’t bring herself to put that kind of crazy bequest into her will. Thankfully she didn’t! I can live quite a few years on that kind of money, while the WT would squander it away on remote-control lakes.