Spanish Newspaper Cronica Global joins list of news organisations reporting Watchtower child abuse scandal.
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News coverage of Watchtower’s child abuse controversy continues to circulate around the globe, and the latest news organisation to carry an article on the subject is the Spanish language Cronica Global.

Carrying the headline “Jehovah’s Witnesses decree that cases of child abuse be resolved internally,” the article has as its centrepiece an update to the 2017 UK Child Safegaurding policy that has been recently circulating online. The news report analyses the contents of the policy document (the first page of which is re-produced up it’s website. Full policy can be found at avoidjw.org) and points out many of the flaws that exist within the policy.

The report does contain a minor factual error; stating that the Governing Body in the UK have updated the policy, when they clearly are referring to the UK Branch instead, but this minor error does not impact the overall coverage of this issue.

An English language translation of the article has kindly been provided by our friend and JW Survey contributor Average Joe.

Jehovah’s Witnesses decree that cases of child abuse be resolved internally.

The cult avoids direct police intervention despite scandals around the world and the demands of the victims.

Jehovah’s Witnesses urge the resolving of child abuse cases internally. The cult’s leadership avoids direct police intervention despite scandals that have sprung up in congregations around the world. A new revision of their child protection policy urges the elders to report such cases, and gives them the ultimate responsibility of informing law enforcement if they deem it necessary.

According to an internal document that Crónica Global (Global Chronical) has had access to, the Governing Body of the Witnesses in the United Kingdom has reported a reform of their child protection procedures.

The aforementioned document has been sent to congregations in the United Kingdom and Ireland, and will be effective in Spain in the near future.

THE ELDERS REPORT …

This update incorporates some new features. If any member of the congregation is aware of abusive behaviour, they should inform the elders (pastors). These, in turn, will bring it to the attention of the [JW] legal department.
According to the new internal instructions, the communication must be made “irrespective of the age of the victim or the alleged perpetrator at the time of the attack, or the age they are now, and whether the allegations are well founded or not.”

… AND THE GOVERNING BODY DECIDES

Once the situation has been reported, two things must happen, according to the Witnesses Governing Body. “A trained elder from the legal department will provide a context in which to act and give spiritual support to the congregation,” the document adds.

Afterwards, the elder body will launch a Scriptural investigation of the case. These investigations include controversial checks or congregational judicial committees, where the elders question the infant about the alleged abuse incident.

With this current reform, minors may give their statements without their alleged assailant being present.

THE POLICE? THAT DEPENDS

Although renewed guidelines call for the protection of minors in congregations, the updating of these procedures still falls shy as regard to police intervention.

The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses leaves it to the discretion of the elders if they want to denounce the incident to the non-religious authorities “if the minor is at risk”. Both parents of the allegedly assaulted children as well as any member of the congregation are authorised by the cult to inform the authorities.

At no point do the guidelines cite the obligation to go to the police. Nor does it detail what will happen if the Watchtower Legal Department decides that abuse has actually occurred, what the outcome of the internal investigations or judicial committees are, or whether their findings will be referred to law enforcement.

LACKING

The updated guidelines for cases of child abuse within Jehovah’s Witnesses is a far cry from what the victims have requested.

In Spain’s case, the group AbusosTJ (JW Abuses), which brings together victims of aggression and their helpers, has called for an in depth reform of the protocols to avoid internal judicial committees and to ensure the comprehensive protection of children of this millennial denomination.

The group provided a telephone helpline (0034) 914 890 983 and has requested access to the secret archives of the cult held at their national headquarters in Ajalvir (Madrid). They are also preparing for further action soon.

It should be noted that the 2017 UK Child Safeguarding Policy Watchtower have made available for the public contains some statements that on the face of it may appear to show a certain amount of improvement in Watchtower’s approach to handling child abuse accusations.

An article will appear here shortly to analyse the policy and see how far these changes really go.

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117 Responses to Spanish Newspaper Cronica Global joins list of news organisations reporting Watchtower child abuse scandal.

  1. Rowland Nelken says:

    They can no longer either run or hide!

    • christian says:

      The real problem is the view JWs have. That they are in Jehovah’s organisation. It create a fear in their heart. The GB know this, and they work on that fear of never “displeasing Jehovah” by not bring reproach on “Jehovah’s name or organisation”.

      They propel that fear among JWs. Its a typical cult like control. “The GB controls the congregation through fear, shame and guilt tactics”. The only way is for witnesses to know for sure and believe that there is nothing of that nature, nothing like Jehovah’s Organisation, which is surely difficult.

      But if they can accept that, they become open and see the organisation for what it really is.

  2. P. McGinly says:

    Will the “two witness rule” be abolished? Should be, needless to say.

  3. Doc Obvious says:

    In any language, child sexual abuse is wrong.

  4. Ted says:

    Elders, they are trying to pass the buck onto you, don’t be
    a patsy. Obey the law don’t be pressured into covering up
    the crime of pedophilia. Don’t do the jail time for them.

    Average Joe, thanks for the translation, a valuable
    contribution to the cause.

  5. JBob says:

    On a quick reading, the outside observer would note there’s nothing here to prevent a victim or their “parents”(guardians, wards, etc) from taking matter to police, but — a child? and parents who are trained and steeped in obedience and loyalty to the group and foremost the policy interpretations from local leaders (also restrained from immediately handing over a case to police) would by nature of groups and group-thinking conform and not report or file charges (in most scenarios) and instead report directly to their favorite elder.

    This is another Watchtower tactic or “war game”–write one thing for the “outsiders” (here legal and regulatory), but practice is another “inside”. It’s another example of the “do JW’s believe they’re the only religion that will be saved?” outsider answer versus insider knowledge and answer.

    Why is there a need to put elders in this scenario? Control. Reputation control. People control. In the wild, if this crime happened, a parent would call law enforcement. Here the presumption is parents’ (guardians’) first reaction is calling elders for help (or to inform)–does anyone dare not include an elder?

    Control goes back to Rutherford and Russell, but is a part of the Advent legacy as well. The poliferation of differing views on verses and interpretations of what really happened in 1844, 1874, 1884, 1914, 1925, etc forced an iron-fist in velvet glove approach to melding together loyal followers with a penalty and discouragement to those who wished to “go their own way” or cause “confusion” when others exercised their “conscience”. Many Advent splinter groups are high-control groups–requiring absolute loyalty to their leader/ship.

    • Chiafade says:

      Great points. We all know that most JWs will be going to the elders first. The organization also knows that. It’s a part of the witness culture and mindset to do this. Once that happens the jw will defer judgment to the elders. Even if the elders say “well, it’s up to you” the jw will have already have been indoctrinated to try to “keep jahs name clean”. If not directly told such by the elders themselves. Which has happened on numerous occasions.

      This won’t end well for the elders. The organization has attached a chain to a truck and wrapped that chain around their necks. That truck is about to drive over a cliff.

      • ROBIN MILLER says:

        If children are under a certain age, ARENT child protective services suppose to take the kids away from parents if abuse is a big possiblity (once teachers or other authority figures get involved – which they legally should).

        • Winston Smith says:

          In the US, if a teacher or doctor becomes aware of abuse, they are required by law to report it to the authorities and eventually CPS gets involved. Not sure what the procedure is in Spain. But the point here is that if the parents don’t go to the police, and there are no doctors, teachers, or other professionals involved, it will never get to the authorities. The elders or branch aren’t going to report it.

          WS

      • Big B says:

        Yes Chiafade; the elders are doomed and will be the fall guys (patsy’s) for the WTBTS (GB) who, once again, will allow themselves a ‘get out of jail free’ card and declare themselves as having no knowledge of these policies and thus not responsible; just like (brother) Geoffrey W. Jackson at the ARC hearings.

        So if the elders “let” the GB wrap a chain around their necks and attach it to a truck that is destruction bound by plummeting off a cliff; then who really is to blame? The stupid elders, who love their “position” to go down with the ship or the “face saving” GB who allow them to do it?

        “Keeping Jah’s name clean” is completely intenable at this point in time. The whole brand (WTBTS) is ‘damaged goods’ and like a rotten fish, ‘stinks from the head down’. It proverbially stinks on ice! And anyone who reads sites like this one will know it too.

        The WATCHTOWER is a torpedoed sinking ship! Torpedoed by their own self-delusional ineptitude, avarice, and ‘holier than thou’ hubris. The numbers in the Yearbook show a definite decline as people abandon ship.

        The lifeboats are already being launched and those left on board the R.M.S. WATCHTOWER (or S.S. WATCHTOWER) are destined to go down with this doomed ship. Sadly, many parents who put their trust in the officers of this sorry sinking ship are going to be sorely disappointed.

  6. Chiafade says:

    Just a couple of minor quibbles about the translation. The section “the governing body decides” should read “the legal department decides”. Also, where it says “where the elder questions the infant” that should read “where the elder questions the young child”. Finally, where it says “which brings together victims of aggression and their helpers” it should read “which brings together victims of abuse and their supporters”.

    I know these seem minor but a jw may use this to say “you see how apostates try to change the wording of stuff”. A great contribution nonetheless. Thank you to average Joe for his work on this.

    • Average Joe says:

      Thanks for the feedback. I’m a native English & Spanish speaker but translating constantly from one to the other takes its toll! 😉
      I don’t think I’d be accused of wilfully mistranslating though. The Watchtower of late has had some horrendous translation work into Spanish.
      Thanks again for the corrections.

  7. WideAwake says:

    Sadly, cult religions are all about Power, Control and money.
    The GB controls the congregation through fear, shame and guilt tactics.
    I was a captive for seven years and I remember clearly the mantra burned in my brain, “Don’t bring REPROACH upon Jehovah’s name.”
    The lying hypocrites at the top don’t care about the crime of child rape, they care about their reputation and how it affects their bottom line. Why?
    Because its ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!

    • Big B says:

      Well put WideAwake!

      I think FOG (FEAR, OBLIGATION, & GUILT) has been used by the ExJW Critical Thinker – YouTube and is spot on.

      “they care about their reputation and how it affects their bottom line. Why?
      Because its ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!” Like all big businesses the bottom line is the money. They have to make their shareholders happy and show them a return on their investments. Oh, wait….they have NO Shareholders; silly me.

      Free slave labor, no shareholders, self-appointed, spend as much money frivolously on ‘Watchtower logo’ storm drain covers with no one to answer to; what a DEAL! 😉

  8. Chiafade says:

    Just a couple of minor quibbles about the translation. The section “the governing body decides” should read “the legal department decides”. Also, where it says “where the elder questions the infant” that should read “where the elder questions the young child”. Finally, where it says “which brings together victims of aggression and their helpers” it should read “which brings together victims of abuse and their supporters”.

    I know these seem minor but a jw may use this to say “you see how apostates try to change the wording of stuff”. A great contribution nonetheless. Thank you to average Joe for his work on this.

  9. Chiafade says:

    I know that your automatic system sees some comments as spam. So this is just a reminder that a comment of mine awaiting moderation offers some translation corrections to the article.

    Again thank you to average Joe for his hard work on this.

    • Winston Smith says:

      The spam filter seems to be working overtime lately. Just about every other comment I write is getting blocked. The editorial staff seems to be pushing them through rather quickly however.

      WS

      • fallingangel75 says:

        I thought it was just me. My posts tend to be long and personal. This makes me wonder if they changed a few settings or something.

  10. Chiafade says:

    I know that your automatic system sees some comments as spam. So this is just a reminder that a comment of mine awaiting moderation offers some translation corrections to the article.

    Again thank you to average Joe for his hard work on this.

  11. ruthlee says:

    The elders will get screwed with vicarious liability and there will be nothing they can do about it. The society will distance themselves and there will be hefty bills that the individual BOE will have to foot. If they have their name on the charitable deed then when the piper who played the tune comes to call, it will be there as a legal document that the said elders were responsible to some degree. No help from HQ Was this the reason each congregation is unaffiliated and registered individually as a separate charity. The society can wrap itself up in legalese for years but poor stupid brother window cleaner will have to sell his house to pay the legal costs. Ruthlee

    • messenger says:

      Ruthlee any lawyer that handles one of these child abuse cases will sue every person and organization responsible. Otherwise lawyers will not take the cases. They’ll file suit against all parties they deem responsible, and they’ll make that decision, not their clients. That’s how lawyers work. It’s business for them, not personal, and they go after all the money they can get while considering their least expenditure of time and resources.

      Moreover, since lawyers are in it for their own profit they will go after people and organizations that have a lot of money. Getting a judgment is not their motive, getting paid is, and a defendant without deep pockets can file for bankruptcy and not pay a judgment after loosing a court case.

      So, every body gets sued, but the lawyers will always have WT as their primary target if headquarters is guilty, because by far its got the deepest pockets. Your point about criminal prosecution may be a valid one though. If elders don’t report in a county that requires it I agree that they might get hit with a fine or jail sentence and the WT walk free, especially if headquarters in another country or state.

      Although these types of cases have been filed for years I believe the WT’s problems in this area are still at a beginning stage, and I think they believe that also. That might be a primary reason for selling their property in Brooklyn. I think the worst is to come, because there are BLOOD SUCKING lawyers that will want to file class actions suits. And though lawyers that are currently requesting the WT data base in discovery motions cannot admit this reason to the courts, common sense and reason reveal it to be one of the primary reasons they want that data base, along with all the WT records having to do with sexual child abuse.

      So, the WT refuses to give up the goods, because they believe they can prophecy correctly one truth, these huge suits are bound to come.

      • Ricardo says:

        @messenger, I feel sad that more brothers and sisters can’t see that things like these sex abuse cases are going to dirty the name of not only the witnesses but of Jehovah himself. So many don’t want to discuss the Royal Commission. It’s viewed as negative talk. They don’t seem to want to have to face the facts, as if their faith is very fragile.

        I told the elders in my field service group that I would like to discuss the Royal Commission at our next shepherding visit and they said, “Oh no!” I’m still waiting for that visit.

        I’m telling as many brothers that I can that I think we will end up going bankrupt. I hope some will wake from their zombie stupor.

        • messenger says:

          Ricardo, are you familiar with the story, “The Emperor’s New Clothes?” In it the head of state was really naked, but all his citizens were afraid to tell him. In the same way JWs are afraid to discuss anything that can be interpreted as negative about their organization. They are afraid because of the consequences they may have to face, which include not being accepted within their congregations as a spiritual person, not accepted as supportive of Jehovah’s organization, or even eventually kicked out of it.

          Saddam Hussein lead with similar tactics, punish anyone who might cause me trouble by saying they don’t agree with my decisions. Most hard core supporters of WT will defend the WT by inflicting part of that punishment themselves, whether by implying through silence or their comments that you are really not a spiritual brother, avoiding association with you, or reporting your comments to elders.

          Their actions trace back to WT directions that have been around longer than I’ve been around. “Don’t murmur, wait on Jehovah, give double honor to elders, our elders are imperfect, ect.” The counsel suggests that you should not to do anything, or say anything except that , sometimes in good faith and obedience you may let your local elders know about a problem. And that’s only if the problem can’t be overlooked in a spirit of love and forgiveness.

        • messenger says:

          Also Ricardo in response to your comment, most Christians that have thoughts about the WT view it as a cult, which means whatever actions the WT takes cannot muddy God’s name in their opinion. I can see that happening with people that don’t believe in God though. Some comments on this site seem to support that conclusion.

          As an aside, no one really knows what the name of the god of the Bible is for sure. It’s not just the proper pronunciation that is not known it’s the name itself. Years back people took the vowels out of the Hebrew words for LORD or GOD and inserted those vowels into the tetragrammaton . Those Hebrew words are Elohim and Adonai .

          A method ancient Jews wrote in was to put dots next to certain parts of consonant symbols which would tell them what vowel sounds to insert and where to insert a vowel sound into their words. Evidently mankind does not have a copy of the tetragrammaton with those inserted dots, so who really knows what vowels went along with it?

  12. Aureo says:

    I cannot think of any parent whose child has been sexually abused NOT going tot he police…I as a former Elder when I read he instructions about leaving it within the organization so as to bring ill repute to “Jehovah’s name”, I can tell it was one order I would never heed and I would have personally contacted the authorities myself. Any parent whose child has been abused, the police is the first call.. not the elders….more often than not they are equipped to handle the emotional and legal complexities to this crime. How the branch office is contacted first is beyond me and personally Watchtower and its affiliates should brought before the courts to force a change required to protect innocent lives. There is no such thing as confidentiality when violence on any level is present. Get with the times Watchtower!

  13. Peter the Digger says:

    According to JW Bible interpretation, the end of this system occurs when the world govts attack all other religions except the JWs, and the JWs are left till last, and then also attacked, at which point Jehovah steps in and ‘ends this system’. It’s getting harder and harder to see that scenario happening when the JWs are getting a reputation for child abuse.

    • Will says:

      Didn’t Jehovah give new light about that? I thought there was a Watchtower saying that the governments can attack “false religion” and the JWs at the same time now. I’m thinking it was a 2013 WT. I could be wrong.

      • Will says:

        I should have said: Did “Jehovah” give new light on that?
        I don’t want anyone think I believe god trickles new light to WT.

        • Peter the Digger says:

          So they’ve changed the idea, derived from Ezekiel I think, where it talks about Gog & Magog coming up against a people with no defences, that this is the attack on JWs after other religions? Also that thye ‘attack on false religion; is a crucial sign that Armaggeddon is near – as now there is no time lag between attack on gemneral religion and A’gedon,which is supposed to some just when JWs are attacked? Confused?

          • twistedsister69 says:

            Confused? Don’t worry. I bet most Jw’s are even more confused by all that mumbo-jumbo. It gets crazier and more convoluted with every iteration. lol

          • twistedsister69 says:

            …To quote Sir Walter Scott, “Oh what a tangled web we weave…”

    • fallingangel75 says:

      Isn’t it though? I’m in total agreement as I have had this thought many times myself. You can’t claim you’re being unfairly persecuted when you are legitimately in the wrong.

      Anybody on here familiar with the American comedy duo Key and Peele? They’re incredibly irreverent and tackle lots of social issues in their skits.

      There’s one where 2 men share a cubicle at work. One looks like your stereotypical conservative Christian and the other is a flaming homosexual who keeps making inappropriate comments.

      Just the kind of things that don’t belong in the workplace at all, the homosexual overtones are not the worst part. He’s just an obnoxious person! It goes on for a while and the straight-laced guy repeatedly asks him to stop and is clearly uncomfortable.

      Flaming dude needles him about his prejudice of gay people. As the skit wraps up, a nice-looking man approaches. Conservative guy introduces him as his boyfriend and they leave together for lunch.

      Flaming dude has a rare moment of self-awareness where he says: maybe I’m not persecuted, maybe I’m just an a**hole.

      I feel like this sums up my feelings about the org (minus the self-awareness, of course!)

      They are going to keep doing the wrong thing and governments and individuals will call them out about it. They will undoubtedly call it persecution, but no. It’s not! Everything about how they’re choosing to deal with this is wrong and they should be held accountable!

  14. GEM says:

    WT has become yet another suburb of “Babylon the Great”. A little humility on their part simply stating: “We screwed up” would surely display their humanity and humility.

    Will it come… I doubt it. They will continue in their arrogance. That is why I left. They are quick to accuse and slow to back down, in case they lose street cred. And by doing so they are losing credibility fast.

    Opus Dei is in there, busting up WT from within. Good men and women true may yet stand up and destroy the chancre growing within the movement.

    That is the only way that “Truth” will prevail.

    Support the kids and stop the rot!

    • Winston Smith says:

      Your comment made me recall this line from a progressive rock song:
      Quick to judge
      Quick to anger
      Slow to understand
      Ignorance and prejudice
      And fear walk hand in hand…

      Seems to describe the leadership well.

      WS

  15. twistedsister69 says:

    Just a thought for any elders with a shred of decency left, who may be reading this. I’m not a cop or detective, I don’t know all the ins and outs and ‘procedures’, so I can’t say how tenable this suggestion is, but if you come across a report of child abuse in your congregation, if you fear repercussions by the elder body, why not report it to the authorities ANONYMOUSLY? It may not do any good, but then again it might.

    • messenger says:

      Or locate where the kid attends school and report it to their school principal, who is legally required to file a report based on any and all suspicions. Ask for a sit down discussion with the principal. They will see you. You can let the principal know why you don’t want to file report yourself. Ask them to please investigate the matter and do so.

      The mere fact that you have this discussion may raise enough suspicion for them to file.

  16. outandabout says:

    What would be even more helpful is a Portuguese newspaper and a Brazilian Trey Bundy picking up the scandal.

  17. Dw says:

    Let me tell you if a account I was at in my hall when I 1st became a witness in the late 80s. We had a CO. Give a talk at our hall. He had come from a beautiful territory in a rural area. A ” picture postcard” community. He was talking of how the congregation had so many people coming in. Did you know what that entire circuit major problem was? Almost all of the people who were coming into the truth were molested.- Before they became witnesses. He said that they had to work overtime because as you know when your molested, you have the same tendency to molest. 1 in 5 of all kids will be molested. The difference is, when you become a “witness ” ,even a publisher is held to high standards. Unlike ,any other religion. For instance, I was brought up Protestant. No ” parishoner” was held accountable for the actions they committed. Witnesses are all held accountable. It is virtually impossible to know what 8 million people are doing. Are there bad apples? Of course. Remember though” every witness is under scutiny,unlike other religions ” parishioners or members “. Are the elders perfect. No. Their no different than me. Do they try their hardest? Every elder I know does. It’s not like they have hidden cameras and microphones tracking every move of every person. You people people on here know that. If you went back just 30 years ago, the world has become 10 times worse. ( Even my worldly friends agree with me). The people I work with agree with me. The ” news speaks volumes “. No matter how hard the elders work, people will slide through the cracks. I’d like to see you take 8 million ” parishioners or members ” of other religions and start pulling out the skeletons in their closets. Problem is, it will never be known. Plus their ” minister’s ” have no clue what any of them do once they leave on a Sunday. That’s the honest truth.

    • al etheredge says:

      Hello Dw. I have a couple of issues with your post. First, “one out of five kids will be molested.”Source please. Second, the problem with child abuse within the witnesses is exacerbated by the two witness policy and the society’s effort to handle these crimes internally without the involvement of far better qualified secular authorities. You are correct that child abuse is inevitable within an organization of 8 million members, but the witnesses manner of addressing it is incompetent and irresponsible.

      • Dw says:

        Sexual Assault Hotline
        203.333.2233
        Domestic Abuse Hotline
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        Home > Community Education > Statistics
        Statistics underscore the prevalence of violence in our communities. It is urgent that we stand up against domestic violence, sexual assault and child abuse:

        Sexual assault statistics
        1 in 4 women and 1 out of 6 men are sexually abused in their lifetime; Department of Justice)
        In 8 out of 10 rape cases, the victim knows the attacker; (Department of Justice)
        Nearly 6 out of 10 sexual assaults occur in the victim’s home or the home of a friend, relative or neighbor; (Department of Justice)
        13.3 percent of college women say they have been forced to have sex in a dating situation; (Journal of Interpersonal Violence)
        Only 28 percent of victims report their sexual assault to the police; (Bureau of Justice Statistics)
        Only about 2 percent of all sexual assaults reported to police turn out to be false; (Department of Justice)
        Among developmentally disabled adults, up to 83 percent of females and 32 percent of males are victims of sexual violence; (Disabled Women’s Network)
        Each year, an estimated 25,000 American women will become pregnant following an act of sexual violence. (American Journal of Preventive Medicine)
        Child abuse statistics
        A report of child abuse is made every 10 seconds; (American Society for the Positive Care of Children)
        1 in 3 girls and 1 in 7 boys will be sexually assaulted by the time they reach 18; (Department of Justice)
        More than 4 children die each day because of child abuse; (U.S. Department of Health and Human Services)
        More than 90 percent of child sexual abuse victims know their attacker; (“Sexual Assault of Young Children As Reported to Law Enforcement” by Howard Snyder)
        Approximately 70 percent of children that die from abuse are under the age of 4; (U.S. Department of Health and Human Services)
        About 30 percent of abused and neglected children will later abuse their own children, continuing the cycle of violence; (U.S. Department of Health and Human Services)
        The estimated annual cost of child abuse and neglect in the United States for 2008 is $124 billion. (2012 Child Abuse & Neglect report)
        Domestic abuse statistics
        A person is abused in the United States every 9 seconds; (Bureau of Justice Statistics)
        On average, 3 women are killed by a current or former intimate partner each day in the United States; (Bureau of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics)
        1 in 4 women have experienced severe physical violence by an intimate partner; (National Intimate Partner & Sexual Violence Survey)
        66 percent of female stalking victims are stalked by a current or former intimate partner; (National Stalking Resource Center)
        Domestic violence costs more than $37 billion a year in police involvement, legal work, medical and mental health treatment and lost productivity at companies; (Safe Horizon/Domestic Violence: Statistics & Facts)
        More than 15 million children witness domestic violence each year in the United States; (Journal of Family Psychology)
        3,500 to 4,000 children witness fatal family violence annually in the United States; (National Task Force on Children Exposed to Violence)
        1 in 4 victims of intimate partner violence are gay, lesbian, transgender or queer. (National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs)
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        • Dw says:

          I don’t make up my own findings. My wife and I worked in specialized foster care and dealt with children that were abused( sexually and physically) starved, living in conditions you wouldn’t put your dog in. We were highly respected. We were given the worst case children. In other words , if they didn’t make it in our house they ended up in a group home. We were the last lifeline. If you look at all them statistics. There are approx: 2 billion ” Christians” in the world. Your looking at 400 million abused. If you used your same reasoning as you use against witnesses. There should be 400 million lawsuits against all the churches in Christendom. ( That’s not counting physical abuse). As I mentioned, when people rarely ever go to church, there religion is never mentioned. When a person is killed, raped, robbed, they don’t say ” Today a Catholic raped a girl”. But, if it was a member of JW. It would say ” Jehovah’s witness raped a women”, Or in the article mention they are a Jehovah’s witness. As to mentioning how the world is so bad. My family members ( never were witnesses) make the same statement as I do. My brother and sister will not even talk about the news because they afraid of how bad the world has gotten. As I mentioned, even good friends of mine at work have stated the same thing. People are scared. That’s a fact. My own neighbors don’t trust each other and I’ve lived in the same neighborhood for 20 years. They’ve all grown very cold and vicious towards each other. My neighbor begin me has a arsenal of weapons. He’s believed the U.S is going to collapse. He’s networked in with other people around where I live ( I live in a place that you wouldn’t even imagine people thinking like that. Everyone is in pretty good financial standing. It’s very beautiful where I live. ) . I do a lot of research and reading. I don’t make things up.

          • Caroline says:

            Dw, I came into the “truth” in the early 1960’s and I was under the belief that Jehovah’s Witnesses were the cleanest people on the earth.

            That is what attracted me to the Organization, plus I thought they were the one and only organization that Jehovah was using to preach Matthew 28:19,20 and they were preaching that the end of Jehovah’s rest day would come in 1975 and so there was a huge influx of people into the religion at that time. The reason was because we were so convinced that Armageddon was coming in 1975, that it showed in our attitude when we witnessed at the door and so we were really convincing to the householders. You are too young for that but I remember that.

            So, during that time, there were probably a lot of pedophiles coming in. Once a pedophile, probably always a pedophile. That disorder is not curable and so they came into the Organization and they stayed under the radar for years.

            A friend of mine’s father is in prison for molesting children for 25 years before he finally got caught and sent to prison. How do you think he got away with it for 25 years? He was an elder.

            How hard is it for a child to come forward and accuse a respected and loved elder? Do you think that child will be believed? Maybe they were touched once or twice or maybe a crude remark was made to them once or twice.

            They probably didn’t realize that it was all that bad or maybe they thought they heard it wrong. Maybe they forgot about it in time. Maybe they wanted to give the elder the benefit of a doubt, but that child had no idea that it happened to other children and those other children were under the same thinking.

            I don’t know how my friend’s father/elder got away with molesting kids for 25 years but it happened in the “truth”. Now think of all those kids who are now adults. How did they find out about that man and finally reported it to the police?

            Obviously they were talking about it among themselves and one by one, they started asking others who were in that congregation and they came to realize he was a serial molester and went to the police.

            We were not allowed to talk about anybody in the congregation who we thought might have been molesters. We might have thought they were creepy and maybe we even got molested but we were not allowed to “gossip” about them and even suggest they were a molester because if we gossiped like that, we would have been hauled into a committee meeting and disfellowshipped for it and what little child is going to realize it’s a crime and should have reported anything out of the ordinary like that? I was only 8 when I was grabbed and I fought back a 12 year old boy when I was alone with him and I never told another living soul what happened between us because our families were close friends and I didn’t want to cause harm between our families and I am 70 years old now and I still don’t want to do that to that family.

            The only reason that that man is in prison after 25 years of molesting children is because of the two witness rule. If he had done that openly in front of other people, he would have been found out a lot quicker but pedophiles know enough to do it in private and Witnesses know about how other Witnesses are banned from “gossiping” and talking ill of the elders. They know that and the Witness Organization is a pedophile paradise and they know it. Why else would the Watchtower Society get away with not reporting over 1,000 pedophiles in Australia in the last 65 years?

            There has to be an understanding within the Organization that they can’t turn in pedophiles in our “clean” Organization and bring reproach on Jehovah. Nobody wants to spoil the name of Jehovah and so bring reproach on their “family” (the organization of friends).

            There is an older brother/elder in my old congregation that when I’d come into the Hall, he’d hug me real close and more than once, he’d whisper in my ear “I have had a crush on you all my life” and I never told another living soul, not even my husband.

            That man is married and I was married. I didn’t tell anybody because I knew of all the hurt it would cause and how could I cause harm to somebody who was telling me that he had a “crush” on me?????

          • Winston Smith says:

            The headlines typically don’t identify someone’s religion when a crime is committed. Only if a religious leader is the accused do they mention the organization. Headlines such as “Catholic Priest” or “Jehovah’s Witness Elder” are common in these cases. But the media is pretty fair in applying it to any religion.

            Jehovah’s Witnesses do claim to better than every other religion on earth, so they do attract more attention when a crime is committed by one of them.

            WS

        • Winston Smith says:

          These are shocking statistics and in no way would I ever try to minimize the terrible effects of the heinous crime of sexual assault.

          However statistics can be skewed and used to purport an issue to try to bring more attention to it. This article shows how the experts came up with some of these statices and why they may be overstated: http://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/the-delicate-dilemma-of-defining-rape/.

          While the statistics may be overstated, it in no way mininizes the trauma experienced by the victims of these horrible crimes.

          WS

    • Winston Smith says:

      @Dw
      One thing I notice in your comment is that you frequently use sweeping generalizations: ‘the world is 10 times worse than 30 years ago,’ ‘witnesses are all held accountable,’ ‘no parishioners from other religions are held accountable,’ etc., etc.

      This is a form of rhetorical fallacy often employed when an argument lacks merit and factual data. The Wathtower is notorious for making such statements and thus it is not surprising that its members and apologists do the same. There is a great article on rhetorical fallacy and flawed argumentation at http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/rhetorical-fallacy.php.

      My advice is to always have data to back up claims and avoid rhetorical fallacy. Those who are aware of its devices will see through it and call you out.

      WS

      • outandaboutp says:

        So, DW, if ‘every Witness is under scrutiny’, how come they have they allowed tens of thousands of children to be sexually abused?

        Witnesses may be under scrutiny, but not for the reasons you’re attempting to imply.

        They’re under scrutiny because their thoughts and actions are being closely monitored so the Cult can head off any dissent which may lead to a mass exodus and so leave the Cult Masters high and dry.

        You really do need to wake up and smell the scam. I’m sorry, but they’ve made a fool out of you.

      • fallingangel75 says:

        ^^^ This! This is why you are one of my favorites, WS!

    • Meredith J says:

      Oh man, Dw, you really need to research the history of these allegations. They have been going on now publicly for years and Watchtower has done nothing. You are so naive to think that this corporation is just like all other religions. Believe me it is not.

      Those who choose to stay associated with it go along with the belief that there are pedophiles the world over and in all religions. Believe me, in this religion their are a great many more than you would ever believe. And they were all on file. Watchtower has since ‘lost’ those files. Open your eyes up. Read these news articles that JW’s are not supposed to read and maybe, just maybe you might find out that your all holier than thou governing body members are just a crock full of you know what. It is a pedophile’s paradise as it was accused of many years ago. That was the reason I left a long time ago when I found out the truth. Seek the truth and it will set you free.

      • Dw says:

        Merideth, when I was 4 years old. I was invited into a tent by older kids I knew. One went to my church ( protestant) 3 were Catholics. They pulled down my pants and played with my private parts. Did I ever tell anyone. No. So, where does their religion stand on what happened to me? If it happened if I was born in a witness family and those older kids did that, it would probably make the paper if I told. Did I hold it against either religion? No. When I became older I was studying and researching the bible. I was 14. I would question minister’s on things I would read. They had no answers to my questions. That is why I stopped going to my church. I went to numerous churches of my different friends Faith. Which, none could answer any questions that I had read. As I mentioned in a previous post, I tried to prove witnesses wrong. Ironically, one of the people who helped me find the truth , was a minister I grew up with, who was very well read and learned Greek. He admitted all the holidays were pagan. He admitted Jesus didn’t die on a cross. During our discussions he defused to say stake or pole, so I Had to use the Greek word starous when we discussed how Jesus died. Then, I began to dig into history books and encyclopedias. Which verified that he was correct in regards to holidays and the ” cross”. So, is it right for him to lie to congregation to appease them? I asked him why he didn’t tell his congregation the truth. He said he would get ” fired”. Remember, When the orginaztion began, think of how adulterated religion and the bible had become. Of course it would take decades to contually learn the truth of the bible. Truthfully, even Jehovah’s people will never learn everything about the scriptures. The difference is when they do find something they were wrong about the correct it. Unlike other religions that could care less and continue with their church teachings, that are not even bible based. Then they conform to the massive making all behavior ” acceptable ” saying ” times have changed”. Who really is being deceitful.

        • Winston Smith says:

          @Dw
          You have my sympathy for what happened to you as a child. However, you are drawing a number of absolutist and narrow veiwpoint conclusions based on your experiences.

          If you were a witness and had told what happened to you, it is very unlikely that it would end up in the papers. The ones that make the news are where there were arrests made or where the victims seek damages from the abuser or the organizations. Most child abuse cases are dealt with by the authorities, and do not go public, regardless of the religion involved.

          The Watchtower has capitalized on the numerous news reports of child abuse scandals in the Catholic Church, so you can’t argue that the media only reports on JW abuse cases. The fact that the Watchtower capitalized on the negative reports about the Catholic Church, while at the same time covering up their own abuse cases shows what hypocrites they are.

          You state that only the JWs were able to answer your questions from the Bible. That’s how cults work: they claim to have all the answers. Too bad that your eary Bible teachers were honest with you in stating that they did not have all the answers – that’s not the answer you wanted to hear.

          As far as “pagan” celebrations and practices, the Watchtower states that if a practice is no longer directly associated with its pagan roots, it does not need to be avoided. Which is a double standard, since hardly anyone in the Western world views Christmas as the Roman Saturnalia.

          The argument against the cross is flawed because there is evidence that both upright posts and ones with crossbeams were used in ancient crucifixions. Also, it appears that many of the Watchtower quotes offering “proof” of their teaching are taken out of context. See http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/cross-or-stake.php.

          WS

        • Caroline says:

          Dw, we are glad you found jwsurvey and I am also sorry for what happened to you when you were four years old.

          You say you were 14 when you were studying and researching the bible and you questioned different ministers on the things you had read in the Bible and they couldn’t answer your questions and so you stopped going to those different churches and then Witnesses came along and they answered your questions, right?

          You said that when “Jehovah’s people” learn that they taught something wrong, they correct it, unlike the churches, right?

          Tell me when has the Watchtower ever admitted they were wrong about anything? They say they are directed by Jehovah’s Holy Spirit, then how could they get anything wrong?

          They can’t admit that they were wrong about anything because that would be admitting that they are not directed by Jehovah’s Holy Spirit so their get out of jail card free is to say that the “light gets brighter”, instead of saying they got it wrong in the first place. That is just an excuse for getting it wrong.

          If Jehovah wanted everyone to be saved unless they worship him in the correct way, then why wait until now to have a certain small group of men say that only they can be relied on to understand it?

          How can those men make the claim that they are directed by Holy Spirit and not be inspired of God? Explain the difference?

          If it’s because they pray before they have their weekly meetings and they are going by the Bible, then anybody can do the same thing, because the Bible is there for anybody to read and understand.

          Anybody can pray and ask for Jehovah’s Holy Spirit when they read the Bible. Does that make them somebody who you would die for (blood)? I would want evidence of their being directed by Holy Spirit and not just making the claim before dying for their understanding of the Bible.

          Has Watchtower ever showed you any evidence that the are directed by Jehovah?

          If you can, get out your March 1, 1981 Watchtower pages 24-27 where it said that Faithful and Discreet slave was the entire body of anointed ones. Also read their qualifications, some of which are:

          (1) Noah’s wife (2) angels sent to Lot (3) Rebekah (4) Joseph and Benjamin (5) gleanings left behind (6) two spies to Rahab (7) Barak, (8) Jephthah (9) Naomi and Ruth (10) David’s Israelite warriors (11) Jehu (12) Mordecai and Esther (13) Job (14) King’s daughter (15) men of loving-kindness ….

          That list goes on with 65 more silly and nonsensical “proofs” that Jehovah chose the anointed as his faithful and discreet but then of course, now we know the Society said it’s only the Governing Body who is the faithful and discreet slave.

          Why are they the faithful and discreet slave that Jesus talked about now and not in 1981?

          They say it’s because they provide spiritual food but what about the food?

          Just providing spiritual food doesn’t mean a thing if it’s not food from the Bible and why does anybody need anybody to interpret the Bible for us? Can’t we do that ourselves?

          What were the questions that you had as a 14 year old that the ministers couldn’t answer? Maybe those ministers didn’t have any answers to your questions is because in order for the Bible to make any sense to you, it has to be “explained” away. Maybe they didn’t have the answers to your questions because the Bible doesn’t make any sense but they had gone to seminary and had those jobs and didn’t know how to get out of what they had gotten into.

          You should look at some of Dan Barker’s Youtube videos. He was a minister too but it was reading the Bible and paying attention what he read, that turned him into an atheist (non believer).

          The Bible should explain itself without having to have anybody explain it to you if God really wanted us all to understand it in order to make through Armageddon and if you can’t understand it without somebody explaining it away, then doesn’t that tell you that there is no way that through the thousands of years since those passages were first penned, there is no way to know whether or not it was inspired or not?

          If you can’t prove that our modern day Bible is inspired (every word), then why die for it? All our Bibles are is renditions of renditions of renditions and imperfect copies of imperfect copies. It doesn’t matter if you can read Greek or not.

        • Big B says:

          @ DW:

          I am truly sorry and angered by what those older children did to you in secret. Deplorable conduct; shame on all of them!

          You stated that: “The difference is when they do find something they were wrong about the(y) correct it”.
          This argument was used when two elders confronted me three years ago.

          My rebuttal went along the lines of “if Jehovah is the embodiment of all perfection and is indeed infallible; then his Son, created in his image, is also perfect and therefore infallible, so it stands to reason that the Holy Spirit that is emanating from the all knowing infallible Creator of the Universe, which caused the Bible to be written, is also infallible; even though written down by imperfect men.

          If all of the aforementioned is true then it begs the question, why do the G.B.,who claim to have Jehovah’s Holy Spirit, have to constantly make adjustments to their doctrine by ‘New Light’?

          In over 100 years as suposedly Jehovah’s earthly “organization” they still cannot get their doctrine straight. Every twenty years you can count on some ‘new understanding’ or ‘New Light’.

          Does it not stand to reason that if they (G.B.) had Jehovah’s Holy Spirit and Jehovah’s Witnesses were God’s spirit directed organization that their doctrine would be correct from the start and have no need for refinements or adjustments?

          After a deadly silence, only interrupted by the sound of crickets chirping, the two elders about ran over me and my wife exiting my premises.

          My point is this, all Christian denominations have the Bible, and each denomination interprets the Scriptures differently. Which is why there are different Christian denominations in the first place. Opinions are like anuses; in that everybody has one and they all stink!

          All religions guess or have opinions as to what the will of God may be or what their sacred texts may reveal through their own ‘interpretation’ (i.e. guessing).

          That’s one reason why I left; the Governing Body is just seven septuagenarians (maybe with one octogenarian, Samuel Herd) running the minutia of peoples lives by guessing, poorly.

          Well personally, I can just make guesses myself and be just as wrong as they are without consulting the Watchtower to get their spin on sacred scripture or anything else.

        • messenger says:

          @DW
          A defense which claims one is not guilty, or that even if they are guilty their guilt should bear no consequence because others are also guilty is a defense school kids use. Imagine how far that defense will get you in a court of law and you’ll realize how erroneous it is.

          Also, the accusation of false reasoning on scriptural beliefs that you and the WT claim other churches use can also be aimed at the WT. For instance, you mention celebrating modern holidays is Biblically prohibited because those use emblems from ancient holidays celebrations that were pagan. Please read the first part of Job, and you’ll see that each one of Job’s sons celebrated his own day with all his brothers and sisters, probably their own birthdays. And scriptures don’t state Job’s children were pagan. And didn’t Paul state that observing a day as special is a matter of Christian conscience. Yet Christ fulfilled the Jewish law, and most all of Paul’s preaching was to people in gentile areas that had their gentile customs and celebrations? Paul’s writings don’t suggest he condemned Christian participation in those celebrations.

          Most here that still believe in the Bible agree that the freedom that Christ and Paul spoke of was not a freedom against that the belief we should celebrate holidays. And we agree some emblems that were once used in pagan practices have been adopted into modern holidays-yet even our wedding rings were also pagan- but we believe the freedom Christ gives includes all freedom from condemnation and guilt that is associated with religious laws that have no Biblical merit; laws made by men not God.

          Maybe you’ll understand if I explain it this way. Shortly after its origin the WT has claimed that the “world” which Christ said his disciples are no part of consists of three parts: the political, religious, and commercial institutions. But remember that Christ also stated while human we could not be taken out of this “world,” so he asked his father to watch over us while we’re here. If he meant the political systems are the world all he would have to do is command his disciple not to participate in them, as the WT does. And in that case they would be removed from that part of the so called world. Also, when people of the world are described as having a showy display of ones means of life, a desire of the eyes etc we realize those things apply to people everywhere and in all parts of society, not just in religions, politics, or businesses. When Christ said his kingdom was no part of the world and he was leaving, it was the planet he was leaving, not politics, religion, or business. And he did participate in all those institutions while a man. So, we believe a large part of Christian freedom is freedom from man-made religious laws, the kind that overflow Watchtower’s religious cup. They teach commands of men as doctrine, and in doing so have not presented to their members the freedom Christ offers to Christian.

        • Meredith J says:

          Dw like everybody else, I am sorry that you were subjected to the humiliation with your so called friends. You were lucky nothing worse happened to you. I was brought up a Catholic and studied with the Witnesses in 1979, but did not become baptized until ’87. I experienced no molestation to anyone I knew for many years. We were encouraged to allow our children to roam around freely as they were in no danger among the brothers. That was a lie because the Governing Body knew quite well that pedophiles were around mingling among us and endangering children. It was later I came to find out the awful truth, which at first I did not believe. I was curious and looked on the net. I found out about the database which had been seen by witnesses in Bethel New York. It was said to contain over 23,000 names on it. Many other things came to light which convinced me that Jesus would not stand for any of this stuff and in no way would he ever give these people the keys to the kingdom. When I left I told an elder who visited me to entice me back that I no longer wanted to be a part of ‘Babylon the Great’. That was in 2002 and I have never changed my mind on that. I have since regained my faith in the Bible and have also found out that this Watchtower is nothing more than a cult designed to mislead, hurt and destroy those who are in it. Please do your research on the real history of it and you will I assure you will be shocked by what you find out.

    • MeThreeDotZero says:

      You wrote: “as you know when your molested, you have the same tendency to molest”.
      What on earth?
      Your statement is ignorant, extremely offensive, abusive and shameful.

      • MeThreeDotZero says:

        You provided a PERFECT example of Jehovah’ Witnesses mentality: the victims are dangerous because as you wrote “they have the tendency to molest”!
        This is part of the Watchtower method of blurring the boundaries between abusers and victims so that the community will perceive the monsters pedophiles in a lenient way (“they were likely abused, they can’t help it, they need our support”) and the victims as unreliable and potentially dangerous (“watch out, they are likely to molest our children”).
        Frankly, I am disgusted but not surprised.
        THE WORLD UPSIDE DOWN: you provided the perfect evidence how Jehovah’s Witnesses are prone to manipulate realty.

      • Winston Smith says:

        That’s a valid point. Now we an “elephant in the room” here. Dw stated that abused children have a tendency to abuse when they become adults and Dw admits to having to been a victim of abuse. How are we to interpret those two statements when put side-by-side? Hmm…

        I don’t believe that Dw realized the implications of these statements nor am I making any accusations. But it brings pause when we consider simply accepting and then repeating erroneous statements by those lacking an understanding of the facts.

        WS

        • messenger says:

          Some of things you guys write here are just tooo funny. Just ever now and then when reading them I get the biggest chuckles, though I realize the serious nature of all participants.

    • Ricardo says:

      DW, you are a person who cares very much about children and how they are treated, I can see from your writings. And, of course, all religions are guilty of having child molesters in their ranks. A point being made by jwsurvey in various posts is that in our religion (the JW’s) there have been elders and MS’s who are known to be pedophiles and yet have been assigned to work door to door with minors (see Candace Conti case and “Amelia” (Peter Stewart) case.) In the case of Candace Conti the Watchtower had to pay compensation of $2.8 million of our donations, and at least 275,000 pounds of compensation of our donations to “Amelia”.

      I remember during the 1980’s we were laughing at the Catholics for all the abuse being reported, and thinking at least that is not happening in our organization, the GB has this in control. Boosting our confidence even more was during the 1990’s (?) there were made some changes so that the branch would be directly informed in sex abuse cases. ‘Wow!’ we thought, ‘the branch has this firmly in control.’ Then came the Australian Royal Commission and we were left with eggs on our face because it became obvious the organization was doing a shocking, disgusting job at handling sex abuse in our congregations. How can we hold our head high going house to house with this around our necks, especially in Australia where I am? Some brothers stopped giving donations in protest.

      Even after the horrendous performance of our brothers and leaders at the Australian Royal Commission, still there is no change in policy!

      What makes my blood boil is that the arrangement for Judicial Committees is not Bible based. It is GB designed. In Israelite times the older men sat at the front gates of the city, and any dispute would be publicly heard. In which case everyone, even non-Israelites, would hear if there was a pedophile in their midst. Under the GB designed arrangement, hearings are done in back rooms, judicial decisions are made in secrecy, noone knows what is happening except the elders. We can see the results of such a system: pedophile paradise. I personally have the experience of being wrongly disciplined in a Judicial Committee, however on appeal my case was cleared. The system does not work! It is a man-made system, not a Scriptural system. If the GB made the system, the arrangement, then it is very simple for the GB to change it. But this they refuse to do! It makes me soooo angry. Why not correct a system which is faulty which is of their own making??????

      If it was a Bible-based system done in the scriptural way, I can understand some resistance. As someone who cares for children, does not the point that our present Judicial system is faulty and is leaving our children vulnerable not pull your heart strings? And that’s with our kids. What about the worldly kids who will interact with the pedophile witness? How are they protected? Why are the police not involved? Although the two-witness rule makes child abuse hard to prove, if reported to the police and medical tests done, proof of abuse can be irrefutably found. If the pedophile is publicly exposed by a police report, does this not protect our kids and the worldly kids?

      Is it not clear that the current witness proceedure is woefully lacking?

  18. ruthlee says:

    All of the points made may and are probably true. Statistics like wtower publish figures are an indicator but can be fabricated. The point I still like to make is that this organisation put it upon themselves to bandy god’s name about so they should have been extra squeaky clean. No matter what they do now their reputation is shot to pieces and will be attached to the “two witness” scandal. Like Nazism (sorry for the analogy) no one says it was good to be a german under hitler because he may have had the nation’s best interest at heart. We look back and see the shame and horror of a bad system that killed innocent people. Catholics shame badge maybe the inquisition but Jehovah’s Witnesses will be hiding child sex abuse. Ruthlee

  19. Ted says:

    Dw, You are an inconsistent fellow. You come on here acting
    as a champion for the wt org, yet you are being disloyal to
    them by ignoring their instructions to avoid sites that they
    designate as apostate.

    Does this not tell you something about a regime that imposes
    censorship on its people. Is their version of the truth so fragile
    that it won’t stand up to scrutiny?

    Are they not acting like “Big Brother” ? Treating grown adults
    like naive easily led children who constantly need the protection
    of the more intelligent and mature. You will be chastised like a
    naughty infant if it becomes known you have acted independently.

    Be honest with yourself, what is your reason for being here?
    Are you having doubts and seeking dialogue that might help
    you resolve issues that you may have.

    You can learn a great deal about the JW org, by reading the
    comments of people here, some who spent twice as long as
    you in that “religion”. So please keep looking in

    • Dw says:

      First of all when I found this site. I didn’t know what it was. That was last week. The other reasons why I posted, was that I noticed that some people on here may still be going to the meetings and are listening to only your side of the story, which your only goal is to tear down Jehovah. You offer no hope of any kind. Unlike Jesus who preached the good news of God’s kingdom till the day of his death. So, if their are witnesses that are on the fence, I’m giving them factual accounts that are not based on the watchtower, but are based on other ” wordly” articles. Showing that witnesses are not drones as you make them out to be. I now one th

      • Winston Smith says:

        @Dw
        Your statement: “your only goal is to tear down Jehovah”

        Again, this shows your “black and white” thinking, as well as your willingness to condemn a group of people without having all the facts.

        Many commenting here still have faith in a higher power and have hope for a better future. However, the purpose of this site is not to preach a specific spiritual path. It is to expose the damaging, narrow-minded thinking fostered by the Watchtower Organization, which results in negative consequences for its members.

        The hope that is offered is that people can wake up from cult control and lead normal, successful, and productive lives.

        It is interesting to me too, that when argumentation no longer avails you, you switch over to condemnation. Perhaps take a lesson from the person you claim to follow: “when He was reviled, He did not revile in return; when He was suffering, He did not threaten but entrusted Himself to the One who judges justly.”

        WS

        • Gwen Little says:

          DW,

          It’s funny that you would want people on here to hear both sides of “the story”.

          Imagine if you were to have this same discussion in a kingdom hall with the elders or co getting wind of your conversation & how long do you think it would take before you would be having a closed door discussion in the back room being accused of apostasy?

      • Ricardo says:

        Let’s not harass Dw for coming on this site. He may learn something. There are many witnesses who come to this site hoping to learn about the child abuse cases Watchtower has lost, and they get informed. They get to hear two sides of the story, because we can’t hear anything about it from our leaders, the GB. We come here tro find out about why Watchtower was an NGO associated with the UN, because our leaders, the GB, aren’t explaining it. Here we hear the other side of the story, in fact the only story, because the GB isn’t giving us one. We come here to find out why there is so much cost cutting going on, because our leaders, the GB, aren’t telling us.

        And we are enjoying this site.

        So cut Dw some slack.

        • Winston Smith says:

          @Richardo
          Not sure if your comment was directed at me or just the group in general. You will notice in other comments that I encouraged Dw to keep studying, researching, and asking questions. Yes, he/she is certainly welcome here (not that I have any say in the matter, as I am not part of the editorial staff). This type of discourse and interaction is desperatey needed by current JWs who the organization keeps sequestered from reality. However, when erroneous, libelous, or potentially damaging statements are made, I don’t hold back from calling someone out it. I did that for too long as a JW and will be silenced no longer. Having long-held JW teachings & statements challenged is beneficial in the process of awakening from the hold this group has on its members.

          WS

          • Ricardo says:

            WS, I was using some reverse psychology to try to make Dw go away. Hard to make facial expressions and tones of voice in a typed message.

            I was not meaning any harm toward you by my message. I have feelings of harm starting to appear in my mind toward Dw, but like a good witness I quickly get these negative thoughts out of my mind. (Sorry, sarcasm doesn’t come through in the written word very well either).

      • messenger says:

        Didn’t know what this site was…but you were drawn back after a week! Just one question please

      • messenger says:

        DW,
        knocking or even tearing down the WT does not equate to knocking or tearing down Jehovah.

        The Watchtower is not Jehovah and to equate the two describes the Watchtower as the Biblical “man of lawlessness.” Are you sure you want to make that claim?

        A paraphrased account says he (the man of lawlessness) comes to the temple of God (the Christian congregation) and sits down declaring himself a god. So, if you equate WT with God are you implying it is the man of lawlessness?

  20. Ted says:

    Sorry Dw, Selected info about world conditions, ( even if true )
    do not prove your religion is true.

    By Bible standards the wt is a failure a false prophet. One failed
    prediction would be sufficient to prove there’s no Holy Spirit at
    at work there. But wt, has bitterly disappointed its followers
    at least 7 times with its attempts at forecasting the end. Deut 18: 22.

    There seems to be no end to people’s gullibility. Please don’t use
    the word Hope in connection to this organisation. Ex bros, and sisters
    commenting here do not sound despondent, they have woken up
    from the cult induced stupor, and taken back control of their own
    lives. It’s a great feeling, help yourself to some. Best wishes, Ted.

  21. A Patient Man says:

    To Dw: Here are some facts along with a few questions. Have you ever been on an investigating committee with a CO and three men and told to keep your mouth shut when you told this group that a known pedophile should be turned over to the police? Have you ever been a part of countless judicial committees and told the other two or three men on the committee that the person being treated without compassion should be treated with mercy, and allowed to go home to their family so they could really begin to heal what was wrong? As a child were you ever whipped and slapped in the face, (which this religion encouraged), and also told that if you didn’t measure up your life was essentially over with? Do you have the gene weakness for alcohol? I am 17 years sober. If you are an alcoholic, how were you treated as a witness? I assure you a lot of tears were shed as a result of that disease for my wife and myself. And this disease for me was made much worse by egocentric people in powerful positions who told me to do more and I would be blessed. How would you have reacted if your wife was called a drunkard and a reviler? I pray every day that my wife can get sober, she is working hard at that goal, and we have been together for 42 years. I am a man who could tell you stories of heartache and sadness that would make you really pay attention, that is if you were a person who is touched by families lives being destroyed because of this religions insane beliefs and practices. So I say to you, take the time to really listen to the stories you read and hear. As I learned in AA- The stories that the people tell may make a real difference in my life, and the ones that I hear that I feel do not apply to me, I know in my heart they will help someone else.

    • Winston Smith says:

      @A Patient Man
      I really appreciated your heartfelt comment and sharing your experience in overcoming addiction. All the best to you and your family.

      WS

    • Rodger Goode says:

      MUCH LOVE to you and your dear wife A Patient Man, this is EXACTLY what the GB and WTBS management do not get, REAL people REAL problems NO REAL solution, if they had to put themselves in the average JW or EX JW’s shoes they may get an insight into how LIFE works and the impact of the FAILED HOPE that they continually PEDDLE! The cognitive dissonance that these SNAKE OIL salesmen create and PROFIT off have driven many to the edge.

  22. twistedsister69 says:

    I’d like to put in my 2 cents’ worth regarding Dw’s comments. I don’t think anyone on this site disputes the fact that there is evil in the world. I don’t think anyone here disputes the fact that child abuse is a GLOBAL epidemic that NEEDS to be cured. I mean, in Yemen, for example, grown men, some in their 40s, 50s, and 60s, are marrying 8-year-old girls, LEGALLY!!! Some of these poor victims die on their ‘wedding night’, due to physical trauma. SOMETHING IS DEFINITELY WRONG. If Dw has truly helped victims and is fighting this evil, then kudos to him/her. But he/she is missing an important point. We are not just criticizing Watchtower because child abuse EXISTS in their organization. The root of the problem is their POLICIES and PROCEDURES regarding these crimes. Dw, how many other organizations have POLICIES in place directing their leadership to CONCEAL these CRIMES and PROTECT the OFFENDERS???!!!!! Wakey Wakey, Eggs & Backey. 🙂

    • Dw says:

      Not to be critical, but what religions actually keep track of their parishioners? My friend that I grew up with ( a good Catholic family), entire family was abused by their father. The son killed the whole family. I knew her since we were in kindergarten. My best friend that lived next to me. Protestant as I was. Beaten everyday. He killed himself at 40. His brother and sister are severe alcoholic. His brother lives on The streets. One of my best friends in high school, molested by his father. He turned out ok. If I went down my street, looking back, I didn’t realize how bad my friends were brought up. Many are now dead or alcoholics. It’s pretty sad. It was so prevalent, yet, I thought it was normal. Witnesses came from all backgrounds. Most weren’t born into it. These are people who were brought up under similar situations as myself. A friend of mine that I brought into the truth, his entire family was sexually abused. 1 brother in jail for the rest of his life. 1 in a mental institution. His sister is ok by worldly standards. She just had 3 kids from different guys and of course the fathers aren’t around. She’s not doing drugs though.( so, I’m not sure what you would define as ok). All brought up going to church. So, does their churches hate any responsibility? If that happened at a kingdom hall, you wouldn’t be able to tell it fast enough. So, yes, there is bias.

      • twistedsister69 says:

        I am absolutely biased against cults.

        • Dw says:

          Under the definition of cults. All religions are cults. Technically all governments are cults as they brainwash their minions to believe ” their” country is the best. Others teach their ” race” is superior. If you want to use the term. Apply to all organizations and political elements. Again, another word to throw around when people want to use it to their convienence.

          • Dw says:

            On top of that. You totally avoided my comment. Could it because it’s true.hmmm.

          • Winston Smith says:

            A cult in the definition used on this site is a group that uses undue influence (e.g. fear, threats, even violence) to control its members to their detriment.

            And yes, cult are not always religious. They can be based in politics, business, or other areas of life. Undue influence can also exist in an abusive relationship between just 2 people.

            To get perspective on what is and is not a cult in this sense, I suggest Combating Cult Mind Control by Steve Hassan.

            WS

      • Caroline says:

        Dw, how do you feel when the Watchtower Society says it “restores” God’s name Jehovah in the Bible when they admit it was an invention of a Catholic Monk in the 1200’s A.D.? Does that bother you? It’s an outright lie and you are helping to spread that lie.

        Most “Christian” religions are going to throw in some scriptures and there are many Bible principles in the Bible that make common sense like not committing murder, stealing, adultery etc.

        But what makes the Watchtower Organization special? It says it’s because it’s the only “clean” religion preaching God’s name and preaching from door to door. Other religions preach too and God’s name Jehovah was never in the Bible, just as the term Governing Body is not found in the Bible and paradise earth is not found in the Bible and only 144,000 going to heaven is not found in the Bible.

        Not believing in a Trinity and hellfire and not having an eternal soul is not enough to tell you that you have the “truth” but that is what we as Witnesses are good a telling people from the Bible and it makes them seem so much smarter than the average church goer out there but being good at teaching God is not a Trinity and that we don’t have a soul but are a soul and not committing murder and stealing is just good common sense, which just happens to be in the Bible but those topics are very debatable too.

        Witnesses think they are so smart when it comes to the Bible because very few people in general know anything at all about the Bible (even those who go to church) and so when Witnesses come knocking, they seem so smart but if you look up the history of Garrit Losch, even though he was raised Catholic, he knew nothing about the Bible and so when Witnesses talked him, of course he believed everything they said and that’s true of most “worldly” people who come into the “truth” and of course Witness children have never heard another side of the story so they are really ignorant when it comes to Bible contradictions etc.

        The Watchtower has said that if you don’t read the Bible along with their literature that all Witnesses would revert back to “Christendom’s teachings so that’s why it’s so important to keep up with Watchtower literature and Watchtower meetings etc.but what does that tell you then?

        It says that Christendom has the correct understanding of the Bible. What else could that mean? If it didn’t mean that, then Watchtower wouldn’t tell you that it’s a sin not to attend meetings and read all their literature.

        It is okay with your conscience to preach things from door to door that you can’t prove is in the Bible? It is not okay with my conscience.

        Is it okay with you that the Society lies about it’s beginnings and all their failed prophecies?

        If Jesus chose the Watchtower in 1919 as his one and only true Organization on earth, then it was okay with Jesus and Jehovah that we celebrate birthdays and Christmas and Mother’s day etc. like what they were doing in 1919 because after all, it wasn’t the good heart condition of those people, it was their teachings is what Jesus chose.

        There are a lot of goodhearted people in the world but they aren’t Witnesses are they? Witnesses aren’t even goodhearted enough to give to the poor. Witnesses’ idea of charity is giving poor people literature to read but that isn’t what Jesus and the apostles taught.

        When it comes to charity in the congregation, that love is totally conditional. They will only help out ones within the congregation who are attending meetings and who agree with every Watchtower teaching. If you question any of their teachings or doctrines, you will be kicked out on your keester, faster than you can stand up and fart.

        • Dw says:

          Witnesses aren’t good enough to help the poor. A very genererlized settlement. I owned a limo company. I was the number one limo company to volunteer when they raised money for muscular dystrophy. I donated my limos for underprivileged children, cancer society. I even came up with my own ” make a wish program”. I would read of kids dying of cancer or who were severely injured. I would get a hold of the family. Plan a entire night out .oaid for there dinners. Paid for tickets to plays, musicals. Whatever they wanted. I spent thousands of dollars. I never called a newspaper or told anyone what I did. I didn’t want to blow my own horn. Unfortunately, my health took a bad turn and I lost my business. I know other witnesses who donate to other worthy causes. Just because you don’t hear about it, doesn’t mean witnesses don’t give. But, I know what I did was only temporary. Unfortunately, some of the kids died. ( I even took out older people dying). The only true hope is God’s kingdom.

          • Winston Smith says:

            @Dw
            Individual Witnesses do good things and help their communities, but the organization itself does little that is charitable. I was born and raised a Witness and served as a servant and elder for many years. When one would volunteer for worldly charities they were always looked at as being less than spiritual. If a man was known to be involved in outside charitable work, his qualifications for an appointed position might be called into question.

            The organization always argued against “wasting time” in endeavors that only bring “temporary relief” to people of this world. Look it up in Watchtower library.

            This level of argumentation is flawed in that you are arguing from the point that Witnesses are at least as good as other religions. However, recall that the organization argues that Witnesses are exceptionally better than other religions, as that was one way to identify them as the “true religion.” And don’t argue that’s not true, because I still have public talk outlines where these statements are made right in the outline.

            As for the Kingdom being the only hope, that’s all fine and well if it ever gets here. According to the Watchtower it’s been right around the corner for almost 150 years now. In the meantime people need real help to live the best lives that they can.

            WS

        • dee2 says:

          “………… faster than you can stand up and fart”………..LOL Caroline.

        • dee2 says:

          “………..faster than you can stand up and fart”……….LOL Caroline.

      • Winston Smith says:

        @Dw
        Truly terrible things that you report from your youth. However, in the conclusions you draw, what you fail to recognize is that in these situations, probably few to none of the abusers were teachers in their local churches. Part of the problem with the Watchtower Society’s policies is that they take very unqualified men and put them in positions of authority, such as elders and ministerial servants. Then these individuals botch up cases of abuse or actually perpetrate them. The very structure of Watchtower congregations provides an avenue for abuse, something the churches of Christendom don’t employ to the same extent. Thus this catches the attention of the media. The media is going to report on any organization whose leaders prey on children, whether it be the Catholic Church, the Boy Scouts, Jehovah’s Witnesses, or any other organization.

        You try to claim bias to excuse the organizations flaws in this regard, but it seems to be your own inability to accept the facts around this matter that drive that claim.

        WS

        • messenger says:

          The gb themselves are unqualified. That’s the biggest problem.

          • Big B says:

            In full agreement, messenger.

            The rotten fish on ice stinks from the head down. They (G.B.) continue their hubris as God’s spirit anointed shepherds, but in reality are a bunch of self-serving hypocrites, that self- promote themselves and are placed in their positions without any say from anyone.

            Not one of them has a doctorate in theology and probably not even a bachelors degree in religious studies or anything else for that matter. But they sure know Watchtower policy! Surely the friends deserve better; blind shepherds leading a blinded flock.

        • Dw says:

          In a the halls I have been The elders are very qualified. They are very compassionate. I’m not denying that elders haven’t made mistakes. Fortunately, the ones that are usually leading a double life, usually leave on their own accord. Could a couple slip through the cracks before they do damage. Yes they could. I wouldn’t want to be them on Jehovah’s day of judgement. If they think the authorities are tough, they have another thing coming. When you drag in the governing body, you act like they can track down anyone with any authority throughout the world. Remember, it was much harder years ago to track everything, especially when so many people were coming in the truth. Some elders that I knew were cocky or self righteous. They’re gone. On the other hand, the elders we have in our halls give anyone the benefit of the doubt, when they do something wrong.( I’m not counting child abuse). People who issues with alcoholism. Who commit serious sin, they look for repentance. They don’t want to disfellowship anyone. But, when you have someone that decided they want to start having sex, partying, becoming no different than worldly people of course they’ll disfellowship them. To be honest, the usually just stop going and become inactive, so nobody really knows what they’re doing anyway. I can see predators wanting to infiltrate the congregations, knowing that many witnesses are innocent and naive. It does cause a issue. The gb has addressed this and said if anyone is thought to be a molester, to speak up and go to the authorities. As this system comes to an end, even Jehovah’s people are not immune to ” wolves in sheep’s clothing ” infiltrating the congregations. As I mentioned. In the 25% of all kids will be molested. I can guarantee you. In the kingdom halls that number 8 million witnesses. That number would be extremely low. 1 kid is too much. Unfortunately, in this world that doesn’t exist. Jehovah’s kingdom will solve the problem once and for all.

          • ruthlee says:

            “Jehovah’s kingdom will solve the problem once and for all” We all believed this and that is why nothing ever got done about the crime of child abuse. Now in the cold light of day when this crime can be addressed it is imperative that something is done about it and not just lamely wait around for the kingdom. I think god may have given us a brain , heart conscience and a degree of sense to use it for the good of mankind not just push a watchtower or witness cart to make us feel better. Whilst we wait for that kingdom surely it is up to us to improve society. Not just live in hope. If we live in hope the loonies will not only take over the asylum, they will expect total devotion to stupid rules. No matter even if the society “come clean” and admit the dimmer switch got brighter and they admit their total ineptitude with regards to child rape, they will only pay out if they have to . They would begrudge every penny extracted from their greedy mitts ,because money has the biggest mouth and the children who grew up with this secret are shouting now.The historic record needs to never be forgotten or swept under the rug. That is why we scream for justice .It is the right thing to do. Ruthlee

          • Caroline says:

            Dw, how do you know that the elders are told that if anybody suspects a molester in the congregation to report it to the authorities. Can you tells us where to find this information? All the information that I have ever heard of is that the elders are to report any suspected abuse to their branch and nothing is said about reporting it to the police. They are told that nobody is going to bar them from going to the police but that’s a big difference than telling them to report it to the police and what about elders who know of an abused child and they won’t report it to the police unless that state requires them to do it?

            Are you an elder so you are privy to those instructions? If you are an elder, why are you on apostate website? If you are not an elder, why aren’t you?

          • Winston Smith says:

            @Dw
            Not 100% sure on your gender, but have you ever even served as an elder? If not, how can you even be qualified to assess their nature? I served for nearly a decade and I found the majority of elders to be inept at best and corrupt at worst. There were a few gems among them, but these were far and few between. Even the kindly and compassionate ones, when it came time to choose between protecting their own position or to go against the grain and stand up for what is right, usually capitulated and chose to protect their position.

            It’s not entirely their fault. It’s the system by which they are groomed and appointed that’s flawed. It’s the procedures that they are forced to follow. Many of them have good motives at first. But they either become consumed with power or give up and just become yes-men.

            WS

          • messenger says:

            Do you give elders the benefit of the doubt if they don’t go along with the Society’s position on higher-education? And if so, why should those elders have to decide against the WT policy that infringes on the rights of congregation members? Why should an elder have to decide not to uphold a WT teaching that seeking higher education is ungodly and therefore brothers that do so should be marginalized, and if an elder possibly be removed? Doesn’t the idea sound unbiblical to you….or do you agree that today men are given a God given commission to dictate lifestyle choices for congregants by steeetching the meaning of scripture?

            Fence around fence, law around law, and none in their care will break Jehovah’s laws. Isn’t that what Christ condemned Jews for? And if so isn’t that breaking the law of Christ? Oh, and how come the WT at times claims there are no laws, that Christians live by principles? Does that line up with what happens in their judicial hearings?

            The biggest problem is not child molestation…covering that up is just one symptom, a problem arising because a group of men assumed authority over others in a Biblically unauthorized way.

          • Ricardo says:

            Dear Dw, I don’t know if you are sincere or if you are just trying to take the mickey out of us, but your statement that the elders are wonderful and give us the benefit of the doubt is something I have not experienced in my decades of being in the truth. I wish it was. I would be a much different person than I am now. I am traumatised by my experiences with these men. I again give you examples I have said in other posts: the COBE and secretary came to visit me to inform me they were recommending me to stand down from Regular Pioneering. Why? Because I only got in 839 hours of preaching in the year, not the required 840. When I said I would appeal, they raised their voices. My family inside could hear them yelling at me. Is that giving me the benefit of the doubt?

            The elders in another congregation had me involved in a Judicial Committee (unfortunately they did not state what the basis of the meeting was, and when subsequently I asked them it was found not to qualify as a basis for a Judicial Committee). I was Judicially disciplined, but on appeal it was rescinded and the three elders gave me a private apology. I wish I was given the benefit of the doubt there.

            When the Kingdom Hall was dedicated and I was an RP the elder concerned with inviting members of the congregation refused to invite me. Why? In a later meeting with the CO he confessed ‘because he didn’t like me’. And I was an RP! I wish I was given the benefit of the doubt!

            I have been constantly abused by these men who are supposed to be a place of protection for us. These are only some examples of the abuse. Have you ever been in a judicial meeting, Dw? I tell you, it is reallllly not a nice place to be. And when you are not supposed to be there, even more so. And when your name is dragged through the mud in an announcement to the congregation that you are no longer an RP and are being judicially disciplined, when actually that didn’t need to be the case, then tell me all about how these guys leading us are, and how much they give us the benefit of the doubt.

            A friend of mine is in shock by what happened to him. The CO investigating his complaint found that the elders in his congregation manufactured a false letter from the GB, claiming it was from the GB to my friend and his wife, telling him to seek peace with his elders (he was trying to get someone to look into the lies an elder had told). Can you imagine, they made their own letter and claimed it came from the GB! Did they need to stand down? Get disfellowshipped? NO. They were forgiven. The CO said that there is no scriptural reason for an elder to step down due to incompetence.

            Dw, are not aware that these shenanigans by the elders are weakening our organization? How can anybody have confidence in our leaders when they can manufacture a letter from the GB and get away with it scot free?

            I have lost all confidence with them and wish they would just leave me alone and no longer interfere in my worship of Jehovah.

            So, ask me, is it possible that our elders might treat the sheep unjustly? What do you think I’m going to say, me, an active JW?

            And when this type of psychological, mental and emotional abuse becomes known to the general public, on top of the sexual abuse, how do we stop Jehovah’s name being repugnant to the average man?
            For the sake of our religion, it is best to acknowledge there is a huge problem and look at ways to fix it up, instead of becoming so self righteous and sticking your head in the sand. As I told my brother the COBE, pull your head out of the crap and you’ll see the crap you’re in. I’ve got my head out and I’m telling you in the loudest voice I can, your head is in the crap. Pull it out and see what feelings the victims are experiencing!

          • Caroline says:

            Hi Dw again. I’d like to add another experience that I remember happening about 15 years ago or so, extending experiences like what Ricardo is telling about when it comes to elders and how great and honest they are.

            We had a new married couple move into our congregation and the husband was disfellowshipped and the wife was newly coming into the “truth” and she wasn’t baptized yet and she had several children from previous marriages.

            She would comment a lot at meetings and a sister from our hall had met her in service and had started a study with her and that is why they started coming to our hall even though they were from a nearby congregation but nobody knew the circumstances behind their new marriage.

            The wife and husband went to our Tuesday night book study and so we worked in service together on Saturdays and one morning in service, the wife was talking about how she and her husband worked in the same place before they got married and that is where they met and fell in love.

            A couple months after that, she was put up on the platform and gave her experience of how she came into the “truth” and in her experience, she started telling about how a “coworker” started talking to her about the “truth” and that is what got her interested and she began the study etc. etc.

            I got to thinking about the fact that she said a “coworker” started talking to her about the “truth” and how she had said before that that she and her husband met at work and the fact that she and her husband were newly married when they moved to our hall and he was disfellowshipped and I wondered why he was disfellowshipped, but because we weren’t supposed to gossip, I wondered if her husband got disfellowshipped because he committed adultery and left his wife when he met her so I wrote to the Society to ask about it.

            I wanted to know why our congregation would put her up on the platform at a circuit assembly under those kind of circumstances if she broke up her husband’s marriage.

            About 2 weeks later, I got a letter from the Society telling me that they were going to look into the matter and the Circuit overseer would get back to me when he next visited our hall.

            A couple months later, the Circuit overseer sat down with me at the hall with our elders and he told me flat out that he looked into the matter and he would have done the same thing in putting that sister on the platform at the assembly.

            I wanted to find out why the husband was disfellowshipped. I couldn’t just let it go by so I called a friend of my husband’s and mine who was from that congregation and we all had breakfast together along with the man’s ex-wife.

            He left his wife and teen aged daughter (both good JW’s in good standing) for that coworker and they moved in together and she was also married at the time.

            Her husband divorced her because she moved in with the JW and the JW divorced his wife. They got married and that is why he was disfellowshipped when they moved to our hall.

            That congregation is only 20 miles away from our hall, but that Kingdom hall was in a different circuit but there were plenty of people from that circuit that day who heard that “sister” on the platform and that ex-wife had plenty of friends for maybe 100 miles away who all heard what happened that day but what really floats my boat is how the Circuit Overseer said he examined the situation and would have still put that “sister” on the platform that day.

            That ex-wife was innocent and loved her ex-husband and was ready and willing to forgive him and take him back but he refused and went with the new wife anyway and the new wife/sister had the gall to complain about his ex-wife to our elders in front of me at the hall like his ex-wife was a real witch and our elders never once took the ex-wife’s side, that is in front of me. They let her go on and on about what a witch the ex-wife was because the husband didn’t want to pay child support and why he shouldn’t have to pay etc.

            I am sure there’s plenty of other experiences like that since I am only one small person in this conglomeration of 8 million Witnesses!!!

            That was probably 15 years ago and I should have stopped going then but I hung in there thinking that it wasn’t Jehovah’s fault and I blamed the Circuit Overseer but I think it’s the numbers the Society cares about. They don’t care about the little people at all and any pain that that religion causes to anybody.

            They want anybody counted in the numbers even if they can only count 15 minutes for a month. The elders will encourage people to lie about their time if they have to. If that congregation’s numbers start dropping, the Circuit Overseer has to find out why and the elders are called to account for it and then the Circuit Overseer has to try and figure out what the problems are and he’s held to account if he can’t bring up the numbers with his 3 years of visiting the congregations. They all look bad when the numbers start to fall and so they are desperate not to look bad if the numbers start to fall.

            They will take anybody for the numbers, even letting elders off from getting disfellowshipped if they confess to wrongdoing as long as it happened several years in the past but for me, if I tell anybody anything bad about the Organization, they will kick me out on my heels because they are so afraid I will spill the beans and take others out with me, diminishing the all-important numbers.

            That is especially important if I had a lot of friends and relatives I might influence to leave along with me.

            That is why the Society is trying to tell little children that they have to get baptized if they want to live through a terrible death at Armageddon telling them them that unless they are toddlers they have to get baptized. That is why they will not allow “gossiping”.

            When I first became a Witness, they said that up until the age of 12, they could make it through on their parent’s shirttails but now it’s toddlers.

            The Society wants them dunked so they are stuck for life.

            The Society even changed the wording of the baptism talk to make it a legal contract for life (much like Scientologists have to sign).

            What little 8 year old has enough brains in their head to recognize contradictions in the Bible and can refute them when even the adults can’t do it?

            The Society will stop at nothing to keep up the facade.

            You really need to do some research to see if you are being lied to or not.

            I for one can’t stand being lied to. That was the last straw for me. I don’t care one way or the other whether Jesus and Jehovah are a trinity or whether we have an eternal soul or whether Jesus died on a cross or a stake. What I won’t be, is lied to and by the way, I happen to have a 1885 copy of the Imperial Bible dictionary and the Society lied about what that dictionary said about the cross. I don’t care about whether it was a cross or stake but I do care about them lying about it and so should you.

            Jehovah hates liars.

  23. Ted says:

    @A Patient Man, I endorse the thoughts of WS,
    My very best wishes to yourself and your wife.

  24. A Patient Man says:

    To: Winston Smith and Ted, Thank You!

  25. twistedsister69 says:

    @Dw
    “Under the definition of cults. All religions are cults.”
    — YOUR WORDS, not mine!
    😀

    • outandabout says:

      yes they are but it’s down to how damaging they are. Islam is the biggest cult and will kill you if you leave and then there’s others like JW’s, etc who will use emotional blackmail and then down to other religions a person can pop in and out of at will.

      But they all use guilt as a tool.

  26. dee2 says:

    Dw,

    Do you understand why the WT is being called out for its handling of child abuse?

    Do you understand the point that the WT’s policies and procedures based on their bible-based “two-witness” rule etc. do not treat child abuse as a crime and discourages JWs from reporting child abuse incidents to the authorities?

    Have you watched the Australian Royal Commission’s investigation into the WT’s flawed policies and procedures regarding the handling of child abuse?

    http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/case-study/636f01a5-50db-4b59-a35e-a24ae07fb0ad/case-study-29,-july-2015,-sydney

    https://m.youtube.com/results?q=australian%20royal%20commission%20jehovah%27s%20witnesses&sm=1

    Child abuse occurs in just about every religion and every sphere of society but the JWs are being called out because the GB policies do not treat child abuse as a crime that should be reported to the relevant authorities.

  27. dee2 says:

    Dw,

    You stated:

    >>>>>”Truthfully, even Jehovah’s people will never learn everything about the scriptures. The difference is when they do find something they were wrong about the correct it. Unlike other religions that could care less and continue with their church teachings, that are not even bible based.”<<<<<

    It is puzzling that Jesus promised that he would send the Holy Spirit to guide persons into all the truth (John 14:16 – 17, 26, John 15:26, John 16:7,13 – 15), yet it seems that the Holy Spirit can't make up its mind as to what is truth when it comes to the WT given their many doctrinal changes/flip-flops in their over 130 year history. One wonders when will they finally get it right?

    You would think that in over 130 years of WT history they would have got "the truth" right by now.

    One wonders what the WT is progressing towards or away from with the ongoing new light.

    Aren't Jesus and the Holy Spirit capable of communicating the truth to the WT?

    Is it that the Holy Spirit is incompetent and couldn't inspire writers to express themselves in language clear enough to be understood?

    Over the course of 130 years, the one religion which alone is TRUE is now completely different from its original teachings, doctrines, definitions, explanations.

    Is this the SAME religion?
    Is it no longer true?
    Is it "true-er"?

    The following documents the WT's doctrinal flip-flops in their over 130 year history:

    1. "Old Light vs New Light":

    141-page document which contains WT doctrinal flip-flops:

    http://bit.ly/JWlight

    2. "Ever-Changing Teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses":

    430-page document which contains the most important changes in years 1879—2015:

    https://wtsarchive.com/pub/x-ect16-e_ever-changing-teachings-of-jehovah-s-witnesses

    • Dw says:

      As the bible says people will be saying” where is this promised presence of him”. Jehovah is patient and doesn’t want ” anyone to be detroyed” Do you think 100 years is a long time. That’s not even a blink of an eye to Jehovah. What will you think when 8 million people start pronouncing the judgement message? It will be Jehovah’s witnesses death as people will kill them. If it’s the truth, then Jehovah himself will come to their rescue. Would you bet your life that you have the truth? Is Jehovah the true God? Or does one of the 7 major religions that encompass all religions have the truth? Ill put my trust in Jehovah.

      • ruthlee says:

        “Ill put my trust in Jehovah” Dw I don’t get angry very often on this site because we all adopt the voice of reason. But try telling that to a kid screaming to Jehovah as the child is being brutalised. You are stupid, in fact senseless to even think Jehovah listened. And when the deluded witness go around proclaiming a hail message from their god he won’t help them then, they will die a martyrs death and won’t even know why.You people are silly . Believe me I was just as silly but woke up and as a survivor of abuse it all fell into place. The religion did not care and the work done in Jehovah’s name is pointless. We were scammed and time will tell on this. As for God well that is another story. But this cult was rotten from it’s roots up and there is no defence or excuse for its bad behaviour and lying deception. The blatant misuse of the bible will be it’s own undoing. Ruthlee

        • outandabout says:

          DW…..you can put your trust in Jehovah all you want, but if he’s the one guiding the GB as to which scriptures to use and how and when, in other calling the shots, then He is directly to blame for tens of thousands of sexually abused children and the hiding of tens of thousands of pedophiles among his sheep.

          He’s the one who taught you to wag your finger at the Catholics and say “that just proves they are a false religion” when their child abuse scandal broke despite the fact that the WT had been actively hiding theirs for decades at that time.

          It’s His house, so obviously that’s how he likes it. He’s a fan of child abuse and hypocrisy

          This comforting talk about Jehovah ‘cleaning house’ doesn’t hold water. It’s Jehovah who has doo-dooed in his own house, nobody else.

          If you weren’t so frightened, you would see the obvious conclusion here.

      • Winston Smith says:

        @Dw
        It seems like you have now given up on any form of logical debate and are resorting to ‘well God’s going to fix everything and won’t you all be sorry then.’

        Seriously, your arguments have become less believable as you continue to backpedal away from debate based on facts.

        My assessment based on your comments is that you had a pretty hard life before you became a JW and it left you with a lot of scars. The JW religion made you feel valued and gave you a safe haven. Their absolute, black&white thinking gave you comfort and answered that question that all humanity struggles with – “why?” That’s what cults do: they prey on your fears and insecurities and make you feel safe, as long as you give them unquestioning loyalty in return.

        You are free to believe whatever you want and to worship however you choose. No one here is saying you need to stop being a member of the JWs, rather we are simply trying to point out the facts about flawed reasoning and policies. If the organization was to reform their extreme policies on shunning, hiding sexual abuse, prohibiting certain medical procedures, and otherwise trying to exert undue influence in the lives of their members, we would have no issue with them. And it can be done, the Church of God reformed after the death of their founder.

        I know you think you are putting your trust in the creator of the universe. But in reality you are putting your trust in 7 weak minded men who have no more of a connection to God than you do. I encourage you to keep studying and keep researching. As Eistein said: “The important thing is not to stop questioning.”

        WS

      • Ricardo says:

        Dw, I fear our organization will go bankrupt before any judgement message is given. There are plenty more sex abuse cases in the pipeline, and if some class actions are taken against Watchtower, then some hefty compensations are going to need to be paid. And our organization doesn’t have money like the Catholics to pay the compensation.

        Add to this the stink that is going to be attached to our organization due to the sexual, emotional, mental and psychological abuse of our leaders, and noone with any sense will want to listen to any message of us, be it the judgement message or otherwise.

        Oh, brother, get your head out of the crap and look at the real situation, please.

  28. Ted says:

    The royal commission determined that the church’s response to allegations of child sexual abuse were outdated, including a rule that there must be two witnesses to an incident, which “showed a serious lack of understanding of the nature of child sexual abuse”. The Guardian 28th Nov, 2016./

    “A serious lack of understanding” denotes a serious
    absence of Holy Spirit.

  29. Never a JW again says:

    Aw DW, I read your comments and remember when I wore your shoes. The ARC took the shine off those shoes and I do recommend you watch all the videos. You may be shocked at the lies and the deliberate deceptions you see. Like highly stationed Elders lying about the responsibilities of Geoff Jackson in regard to the work he does for the WT. One point I want to make, you comment repeatedly about “not bringing Jehovah’s name into reproach”. What to you thing about the rebranding of the WT org into JW.org? Comparing it to what businesses do, they have re branded everything with their new blue logo. Why? Because they realize they have made Jehovah’s name stink to all people in the world. The position they have taken on handling of child abuse within the org is despicable and they see the dirt being thrown on Jehovah’s name. Many of us here who read the website still love Jehovah God, but we do not love the org that has dragged his name through the dirt and then changed their logo to hide his name. I appreciate your comments as it shows you to be someone who is in the midst of waking up and shocked by what you are learning. My husband and I still pray together multiple times a day to Jehovah and we stopped going to the KH nearly 2 years ago because of the disgrace of policies regarding child abuse. I had a daughter by my previous husband who was groomed at 14 by a regular pioneer and then when SHE was the one who came forward and told what happened, was blamed for being “too pretty” and the poor pioneer “just couldn’t help himself”. No, the police were never involved, as that was the direction of the Elders. At that time I was a single mom without support from anyone, so did as they told me. I know the dirt that was shoved under the carpet and I still hold those men responsible for the problems that particular daughter of mine is still dealing with. To me it makes it pretty clear why they have re-branded the org. When they get to court now, they can claim it was the “other” org, “Christian Witnesses of Jehovah” that did the covering up, but the “new” org of JW.org is “better”. New patches on old wine skins. I hope you continue in your waking up…it is painful and often brings tears to realize what has been done to Jehovah’s name and to you yourself. Keep searching and keep reading…when all is said and done, it’s your relationship with Jehovah that is most important and you don’t need men to make that work.

  30. The Modeller says:

    It’s not just about child abuse – there are lots of adults who, for one reason or another, are vulnerable. One thing that the new policy does seem to address is to take these into account by not putting an age limit on the person who has been abused. Of course, the policy still has major deficiencies. I’m looking forward to the follow up article that is now in preparation.

    I’m particularly interested to know what you think about the stance the elders take that the onus with regard to Safeguarding is on the parents and that they don’t need to be DBS checked as they don’t organise any activities for children.

    • outandabout says:

      ‘they don’t organise activities for children’….another example of their selfishness. They even want children to give up their childhood for them, their talents and creativity, and they can spout all they want about their caring attitude, but actions speak louder than words.

      Even the Mormon church down the road has a basketball hoop in the carpark.

  31. Sharon Christensen says:

    Awesome to see and read all the comments on here! Stayed up a good portion of the night trying to read all…lots of moon light, so was ok…;)… I to, disagree with comment as to if abused have tendency to do such…I NEVER!!! had that tendency….always see a little child and think…may that poor little kid NEVER have to endure the horror of abuse in life no matter what age! I hope my daughter, my brothers kids, his grandchild…any child for that matter…no never no….and can not figure as to why…God allows such, it is a scar on ones life that never goes away, never forgotten…no matter what kind and to what degree….every JW cong should have…bendezars…vets/livestock men use…or Choppin blk…woodsmen use and yeh….instead of cover over and point finger at Catholics etc….use at least the unsharpened snips…or blunt end of axe…feel the …”burn”. then yeah…think twice next time…draw up their…tight lederhossen, and keep them there!

  32. Sharon Christensen says:

    Whoops that was to read…grndchildern …

  33. johnblaze says:

    All this has to go main stream in America in their home base ….it needs to be on television, newspapers and every media possible. ..just like what happened to the Catholic Church…we have to bomb them with this information to submission. ..just like they do to their rank and file on any given Sunday. ..brow beat them til this truth becomes real to them….and omission from the top of the pyramid is the only way the scales from their eyes would be lifted. ……

    • Ricardo says:

      The last thing the JW’s want is media attention. Once the rot becomes publicly known, who will listen when we go house to house? It’s one thing to say we have the truth, but when the truthful misdemeanours, mishandling and lack of love becomes known, who will want to listen to what we say, no matter how much it is the truth?

      Unless the witnesses get this worked out real fast, meaning the Governing Body because the single witness can’t do much, no amount of rebranding with jw.org or broadcasting or videos will be able to convince anybody.

      I have forebodings that the mud is going to hit the fan real soon.

  34. Whip It says:

    Name change coming, New Light, Millions now living will never die, well like a lot of people i watched my Parents die, a sad and cruel death,

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