This is the latest summary of the Royal Commission in Australia by non-disfellowshipped JWsurvey reader “CovertFade,” who is standing in for the JWsurvey writing team as we process the fast-paced events “down under”…
The closing moments of Day 7 of the Royal Commission’s investigation into Watchtower’s child abuse procedures saw some heavyweights from Watchtower’s Australia branch face up to some brutal questioning by the Commission’s Senior Council, Angus Stewart.
At one point the following remarkable exchange took place in which Terrence O’Brien, the coordinator of the Australia Branch, is accused of deliberately trying to deceive the commission in an apparent attempt to protect Governing Body member Geoffrey Jackson from being called to give evidence.
- Mr Angus Stewart SC: Mr O’Brien, you have given evidence that you gave instructions to counsel on the point of Mr Jackson not being able to assist and his activities being in relation to translations. I, as a matter of fairness, must put to you that those instructions you gave were false, were they not?
- Terrence O’Brien: No, I don’t believe so. Mr Jackson does oversee the translation work, but as part of the writing committee member, which he is one of the Governing Body members on that committee. So —
- Stewart. And I suggest to you, or I put to you, that when you gave those instructions, you knew them to be false?
- O’Brien. No. I disagree.
- Stewart: And by giving those instructions, you sought to mislead the Royal Commission, to protect Mr Jackson from any potential summons to appear?
- O’Brien: No, I disagree. I think the reason we asked consideration to be shown to Mr Jackson was the grave situation of his father – the very reason he is in Australia.
- Stewart: Yes, and in relation to that, in view of what I have put to you, perhaps you can answer this: how are we to know if what you say about Mr Jackson’s compassionate circumstances is, in fact, true?
Attempting to mislead a Royal Commission is a criminal offense. If charged and convicted, Mr O’Brien could face a fine of up to $20,000 and up to five years in prison. So how on earth did the normally legally-savvy Watchtower manage to put itself in a situation where the head of its Australia branch was caught out in such a clumsy lie? Especially when the previous six days of testimonial curb-stomping clearly demonstrated that the Commission team was very smart, very aware of Watchtower’s inner workings, and quite prepared to examine matters with a fine tooth comb until it uncovered the truth.
Well, with hindsight, one can see the answer, and it revolves around the Cult Of Personality that the Watchtower has recently started to build around its Governing Body.
By Day 5, it was clear that a number of aspects of Watchtower’s handling of child abuse were seriously troubling the Commission. They included the two witness rule, the all-male nature of the judicial process, allowing a guilty-but-reproved offender to remain in the same environment as his victim with no real sanction, and more.
It was also clear that Watchtower considered these policies unchangeable due to their supposed scriptural basis, and that it was eagerly offering concessions in some lesser areas while carefully trying to sneak the weightier matters of concern out of the Commission’s spotlight unaltered.
The logical conclusion being drawn by the Commission was that they simply had to talk to the Governing Body. Ordinarily, this would be impossible; the seven members of the Governing Body reside in Brooklyn USA and as such are beyond the Australian Commission’s reach.
However, it transpired that Governing Body member Geoffrey Jackson had actually been in Australia since early July. The Commission made two separate approaches to Watchtower to organize testimony. Watchtower replied to the effect that Mr Jackson was in Australia for private, compassionate reasons and, also, that since the Governing Body was not involved in the implementation and administration of policies and procedures in relation to child sexual abuse, he would not be able to give relevant evidence.
The idea that a Governing Body member would not be able to give relevant evidence in this matter is absurd. Yet it should be noted that this fits a pattern of behavior. Gerrit Losch also refused to appear in defense of the organization’s child abuse policies in a US civil action the previous year. Nonetheless it appears the Commission was content at that point to let the matter go, and did not issue a summons. (It is important to note that refusing a summons to a Royal Commission is a criminal offense than can carry a sentence of up to six months imprisonment.)
However, by Day 6 it was clear that not only was the Commission realizing no meaningful change was possible without Governing Body sanction, but also that Watchtower was pulling out all the stops to firewall Jackson. My theory is that Watchtower Australia was given strict orders from Brooklyn that under no circumstances was Jackson to be summoned.
The damage to the cult of having one of the illustrious seven Faithful and Discreet Slave members, together comprising a revered mouthpiece of God, cut to dry-mouthed ribbons under examination as to his support for indefensible child abuse policies, was too awful a scenario for them to permit.
Nowhere was this more obvious than in the Day 6 testimony of Senior Service Desk Elder Rodney Spinks.
In the context of what we now know, it’s clear Spinks was tasked to mislead the Commission into believing Watchtower Australia had the authority to implement any changes the Commission might recommend, and thus shield Jackson from involvement. He does this in a manner that would make some of the most slippery political spin-masters green with envy. Let’s look at “Slippery Spinks” in action as he answers a simple, direct question. (By the way, the simple, direct answer to the question is: Yes we would need permission from the Governing Body.)
- Mr Angus Stewart SC: But if you are to publish something new which sets out how child sexual abuse allegations are to be dealt with within congregations in Australia, would you need to get the clearance or the go-ahead from the Governing Body that what you have set out is fine, because it is not in conflict with the scriptures?
- Spinks: I think the documents would show that we correspond openly with the Governing Body on matters of interpretation. I think my point is clear, that if recommendations from this Commission, and some things that we can obviously see ourselves – so, for example, if there is a legal requirement, whether it’s because of mandatory reporting or because of a criminal law that is less familiar to me than you, but if there are legal implications and we are working outside of those, you can be certain that an adjustment will be made here in Australia and a document produced relative to Australia, including collating those, as you see it – and correctly so – references from decades, that would be better into a single document tailored for the law, the culture, the expectation here in Australia. Absolutely.
- Stewart: And you would only do that through engagement with the Governing Body?
- Spinks: That’s – as many things could be done here in Australia, what I’m saying is we have such great respect for the Governing Body, we would have no issue at all with corresponding with them back and forward. I am confident there would be no issue, if we don’t stray from the scriptures, that they are happy for each branch committee – remembering that those members of the Governing Body are simply, as well, unpaid members of the organization that are selected from elders from different countries. So that’s not the issue. The issue is: is it in harmony with the scriptures and is it appropriate here in Australia. And the Australia branch committee would have that.
Notice how Spinks tries to dance around a simple and truthful “yes” every time, never quite telling an outright lie but still giving the false impression that the Australia branch can give the Commission everything it wants and thus there is no need to trouble Jackson.
During Day 6, the question of Jackson’s participation again comes up, and this extremely significant exchange takes place between Justice McClellan and the Watchtower Legal Council, Mr Tokley (bold is mine):
- Justice McClellan: Now, these are very significant issues. They are not small issues, they are significant issues. At the moment, we are, as I say, facing the situation where we can see a problem, but we do need assistance from the church in what is the solution. We rather thought that Mr Jackson might be able to assist us in that respect. I understand the reason for compassion being extended to him. I have no difficulty with that. And for that reason, I have not issued a summons requiring him to attend. But at the moment we face a serious issue with which only the church can help us. Whether that needs a response now, I don’t know, but we would like you to reflect upon that situation.
- Mr Tokley: Your Honour, may I respond on behalf of the persons I represent. Your Honour’s points are being taken on board, are being addressed, and are being given the most earnest consideration by the authorities. Mr Jackson would probably not have been of any assistance in any event, because his role and his responsibility is in relation to the translation of matters; it’s not in relation to these sorts of matters.
Remember that specific wording. That’s going to come back in a big way. Watchtower has just set something in motion that cannot be undone.
As Day 6 ends, it’s clear that Slippery Spinks has failed to protect Jackson. The Commission is clearly unconvinced. But it’s Day 7 when the wheels spectacularly come off the wagon for Watchtower Australia. During examination of the first witness of the day (Vince Toole, the elder in charge of the Legal Desk) the Commission submits a piece of previously unseen evidence.
- Mr Angus Stewart SC: You say your understanding is that the branch committee members are equals. One of them is actually designated coordinator, is that not right?
- Toole. Yes, I think he’s the coordinator of the – of the branch committee.
- Stewart: And that designation or responsibility also is an appointment by the Governing Body?
- Toole: I believe so, but I’m not absolutely certain – but I believe so. I’m sorry I don’t have a lot of information on that, but I just – I’ve never been involved.
- Stewart: There are other copies coming shortly, but I’d just like to show you – there’s a copy for you – a document. You see it’s headed “Branch Organisation Effective December 15, 1977, Revised February 2003”. It says “This material in Branch Organisation –being the name of the publication –should not be copied or duplicated except with the permission of the Branch Committee.” It’s published in the USA, I understand, by the Governing Body. Have you seen this publication before?
Yes, for reasons that will come to light in a future JWsurvey article, the Royal Commission managed to obtain a copy of the Branch Handbook. If you thought the elders handbook was hard to obtain, that’s nothing compared to the Branch Handbook.
If the elders handbook is all about running a congregation, then the Branch Handbook is all about running a multi-million dollar worldwide corporation, and details, among other things, the full responsibilities of the Governing Body – the same Governing Body Watchtower Australia is desperately trying to insist has no say in the issue.
The day continues. Toole disgraces himself in his own special way during testimony, and also frantically tries to avoid giving straight answers as to the role of the Governing Body. Yet finally he is done, and Watchtower Australia’s big cheese, Terrance O’Brien, takes the stand.
Keep in mind what has happened up to now. Previous elders have been frantically spinning the narrative that Jackson is not needed, yet the Commission is clearly deeply suspicious, and most critically of all, Watchtower legal council has officially stated that Jackson’s role is limited “to the translations of matters.” To back away now would expose their deceit, and lead to possible criminal charges. But at the same time, it’s clear the Commission have all the evidence they need to see through the ruse. They have the Branch Handbook for crying out loud!
This is the no-win situation confronting O’Brien as he takes the stand, on an international live webcast, to face Mr Angus Stewart Senior Council, who has previously made mincemeat of every elder placed before him (even Slippery Spinks) and who now possesses the very publication that tells O’Brien how his own organization works.
The transcript records Stewart using the Handbook to establish Jackson’s role spanning multiple committees, including the writing committee and the teaching committee, both of which have direct involvement in the Commission’s area of interest. Then, the final nail in the coffin:
- Stewart: I understand that you have not served as a member of the Governing Body, so I’m asking you from what your understanding is. But your understanding is that the seven members of the Governing Body, as a Governing Body, meet weekly, do they, every Wednesday?
- O’Brien: Yes, so those who are present meet weekly.
- Stewart. It will be that Governing Body as a whole, or those who are present, who would authorize the various publications and guides and guidelines, and so on; is that right?
- O’Brien:. They would give the final approval for the publishing of them, yes.
- Stewart: You will have heard yesterday that senior counsel representing the Jehovah’s Witnesses in Australia and the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of Australia said that Mr Jackson would not be likely to be able to assist this Commission, because his role is in the translation of matters. Now, that, do you accept, is in clear variance to what you have explained in your evidence?
Think about it. What would you do? Admit the truth and your previous deception, or keep trying to deceive, even though it’s clear that the evidence to disprove your testimony is literally resting in the hands of your opponent? O’Brien makes his choice. Stick with the lie.
- O’Brien No – sorry, it’s not. The translation, it comes under the writing committee, as I understand, which is what Mr Jackson is a member of.
Stewart: But he’s also the coordinator of the teaching committee that has many other responsibilities, and not translation – not so? - O’Brien Yes, he – as a member of the Governing Body, he has a number —
- Stewart. So can you explain, Mr O’Brien, how it came about that senior counsel representing the organization was given instructions that Mr Jackson’s role is confined to the translation of matters, when it clearly is not?
Finally! It took two solid days of testimony, of dancing around the issue by various senior elders, and dogged persistence by the Royal Commission to establish an answer to the simple question of: What does Geoffrey Jackson do? Two Days!
It’s not over yet. When Justice McClellan next speaks, the webcast audio records a softness to his tone that underscores that severity of the situation more than a raised voice ever could.
- Justice McClellan: Mr O’Brian, did you give those instructions to senior counsel?
- O’Brien: The instructions regarding Mr Jackson?
- McClellan: Yes.
- O’Brien: Yes.
- McClellan: It led me to believe that there was little that Jackson could add to the discussion, and no doubt that is what you expected would happen; is that right?
- O’Brien: That’s true, and I still concur with that.
- McClellan: Well, I’m starting to form a totally different impression, I have to tell you.
The day ends on Watchtower’s worst case scenario: Justice McClellan issues a summons for Geoffrey Jackson. What will the fallout be?
At the time of writing, it is unknown if O’Brien will face charges. On the surface it would appear the case against him is compelling, and it’s clear both Mr Stewart and Justice McClellan viewed O’Brien’s misdirection seriously. Additionally, it’s clear this was part of a strategy of misdirection employed by every Branch-level elder who testified. Yet even if all involved escape legal sanction, the fact of their deception is preserved online for all the world to see.
Google doesn’t forget.
What of Jackson? He has three options.
- Refuse to appear before the Commission, stay in the country to look after his reportedly dying father and go to prison.
- Appear before the Commission and take part in the worst PR debacle the cult has even seen.
- Refuse to appear, flee the country and make it clear to the world that he is so scared of the Commission he will even abandon his dying father to avoid testimony.
There is one final irony. As mentioned, the witness preceding O’Brien was Watchtower Australia’s top lawyer, Vince Toole. During his testimony, the concept of theocratic warfare was directly put to him:
- Ms David: In the Watchtowers in 1957 and 1960, have you heard they say that: “As a soldier of Christ, you are in theocratic warfare and you must exercise added caution when dealing with God’s foes. Thus the scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God’s cause it is proper to hide the truth from God’s enemies.” Have you heard of that?
- Toole: No, and I’ve never read 1957 magazine articles, I’m sorry. I only became a Jehovah’s Witness in 1972.
- Ms David: But, as a lawyer, you would be aware of such concepts, wouldn’t you – that you can lie to protect Jehovah’s name?
- Toole: (Visibly angry) We are truthful. To be a Christian, you have to be truthful.
Maybe O’Brien didn’t get the memo?
CovertFade
You can watch a full playlist of the Royal Commission below…
Related video…
It’s a sad fact that you don’t know about the shadier side of Jehovah’s witnesses until you actually leave them, or until you want justice for a terrible wrong, as is the case for victims of abuse!
Unless these poor folks awaken to the real truth they will remain in their fools paradise.
I believe they will all be cast aside with nothing when the axe finally falls on the Watchtower. The Society could not afford to pay the compensation claims for unfulfilled promises!
Enuffsenuff – how often we read that scripture and didn’t realise we were doing it, putting our trust in nobles, etc. I have found that by turning scriptures round to apply to Watchtower instead of the world things are starting to make more sense. I do think they have taken up the ‘name’ of God in a worthless way and will have to pay full recompense for their error. I remember a Watchtower study a couple of years ago when it was proudly stated that they had taken the name that no-one else wanted. If you arrogantly believe you are THE CHOSEN ONES, you should make darn sure you live up to it!
I hope this ARC hearing is the beginning of the end for them and that maybe God will use the ‘superior authorities’ to punish them with the greatest severity. (Ex 20:7)
Bad Penny –
Shadier side of WT (JWs), you don’t have to wait to leave and see it in action.
This is what was said today Sunday, August 23rd at the Regional Convention at Frisco, Tx. By the Convention overseer Bro. Jarred Hardy. (It’s ironic Bro.Hardy was my brothers CO while he was in Bethel, my brother became an MS and then elder for about ten years. Then he learn TTATT. He no longer is an active JW.)
The introduction was strong as expected for the Illuminati in plain sight. Four points prove this, they were:
1). The last talk – Illuminati hide there secrets in plain sight.
2). A storm is coming – (“predictive programming “)
3). The symbol used in his introduction illustration was the Octagon – (Octagon Control)
4). The warning don’t visit apostate web sites.
The Illuminati hide there secrets in plain sight.
He started out explaining about a storm coming, – this would indicate a hardship of trouble for the 7 men in WT. The symbol used was the octagon, we know an octagon has eight sides, however, one man is no longer and only 7 men remain.
Bro.Hardy then explained 4 stops and 3 go’s. This would represent the 7 men remaining.
Then came the big admonishment – Illuminati hide there secrets in plain sight. ‘Do not read apostate web sites, do not become a doubter, (wait for it, wait for it, my words added) do not visit web sites such as, ‘JW what you don’t know, and another JW – whatever he said.
My books fell to the floor I could not believe he shared 2 web sites Not to go and read or visit.
Again, the Illuminati hide there secrets in plain sight.
For the active jw this information may be over the top, and hard to grasp. However, very real.
The WT – the 7 men are only following orders given to them. This was proven in the ARC when GJackson explain his role as a member of GB, ,’I review the articles (this is vague and a weak duck – following orders) for any corrections or whatever’. We all agree (the 7 men) and follow the article and the order – the Illuminati code.
Once you start your research on the history or the beginnings of the WT, then you will understand theirs a sinister dark side in place within the WT. Then you will understand the expression – the Illuminati hide there secrets in plain sight.
The band-aid is about to fall off.
Peace out,
@ Bad Penny:
I respect your right to self expression.
If you are not careful, we will lose the measured approach and rhetoric displayed by the ARC in a tirade of blood lust and scalp hunting.
Already you have called on Cedars to head up the mob action. Don’t you think, being August, he might be having a little quality time with his delightful little family? Cut some slack and give him space to breathe!
The only way you will get the monolith called Watchtower to recognise the error of its own actions is to reason with them on their own territory.
The ARC is an EXCELLENT start for rolling out the correct thought processes which may lead to change.
Remember, Bad Penny, many of us joined the movement originally because we saw the blood lust and guilt in the other suburbs of “Babylon”…. if your from the South of England, like me…take a walk through the cloisters and aisles of Winchester Cathedral. Raise your eyes and see the distressed Union Jacks, soaked in the blood of the Valiant.
Give your (ex) brothers and sisters time to repent…I always found the vast majority to be kind and warm hearted people. They just need a little nudging out of slumber to question who they are really serving.
Peace and Reason everyone.
Gem
Chalk my vote up for blood lust and scalp hunting.
You cannot teach Chinese to a dog and you will never
“reason with them on their own territory”.
You cannot teach Chinese to a dog?? dont understand
@Garrett:
That’s a shame.. personally I was impressed with Paul Grundy’s Podcast interview. I guess he is probably closest to the way I feel.
It is my hope that all “men” will reason and finally reach universal agreement…otherwise, we are damned.
By the way, having experienced a session in a pool with a Dolphin recently I am not so sure about your conviction over teaching animals foreign languages.
All the best.
Gem,
You cannot “reason” with radical religion.
Americans aren’t dropping pleas and pamphlets on ISIS and the Taliban because they know it doesn’t work.
They use bombs.
Half measures and hand wringing wishes are as ineffective as throwing popcorn at a charging rhino.
Garrett,
If they cannot respond honestly to an ounce of reason, they will and should be hit where it hurts most….
The Pocket
(btw: do you work in a zoo?)
Hhahaahahaa…. That’s pretty funny Gem.
A zoo! No dogs in Zoos here… But I’m sure I can come up with more mammalian metaphors in future posts.
My work is done here. I’m watching the “Walking Dead” on TV. It’s a program about Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Aufwiederhören!
GEM
Apologies if I have upset anyone, I have always tried to be honest and reasonable in my comments.
I agree Cedars needs a break, I was just missing him, certainly not wishing him to head up a mob action, that was not my thoughts at all.
As for reasoning with the Watchtower on their own territory??? What am I supposed to do? I’ll just catch a plane to Brooklyn and ask to see the magnificent 7 shall I? I would love to ask them why they have manipulated dates to fit in with their false teaching. Or why they did not have the compassion for victims of child abuse by misinterpreting scripture and letting wicked men remain in congregations. Or maybe I’ll just go back to the KH and ask for forgiveness and say, ‘Can I have my territory back so I can knock on peoples doors and tell them the real truth??’ I don’t think so.
As for blood lust and scalp hunting?? I’ll leave that to the Watchtower. They have certainly made my blood boil, and given me plenty of headaches over their sacrificial policies.
Quite frankly, after wasting the best years of my life to a cause that has proven deceitful, I think I have a right to be a little angry!
I will probably leave you to it now guys and gals. I think I have the rest of my life to get on with! See ya!
Bad Penny. I just read your post. Good on you. We all sound crazy sometimes when we think back about all those good years gone for the sake of the Watchtower and the ‘Magnificent 7’ as you say. We are all angry and frustrated but it is sure to receive whatever it deserves according to Almighty God. Enjoy your comments too.
Thank you for not blaming God as so many too far broken do.
@Bad Penny, in my opinion, your comments have not yet needed an apology. I respect your experience and opinion and would also be sorry not to see your comments again. But I fully support your desire to have a break, either temporarily or permanently. And, yes, of course you have a right to express anger after your experience with the WT. Feeling emotions and doing our best to express them constructively, these are human attributes that are healthy, vital and authentic. And authenticity and vitality are two human strengths that this totalitarian WT soc fears so much. I respect you, Bad Penny.
BBad penny,
I have read probably all of your comments and have enjoyed
doing so, I certainly have found nothing unjustified in them.
I for one will be most sorry if we hear no more from you,
but will respect your decision.
very best wishes Ted.
Bad Penny, I also have read all your comments and I didn’t see anything you should apologize for. I also enjoy all your comments and will miss your comments if you don’t comment anymore.
Stick with it Bad Penny, there is a well known quote from the late leader of the (now defunct) Democrats political party in Australia, Don Chipp. His campaign slogan was, we are here “to keep the bastards honest”, referring of course to the major parties. While he was alive he did that and it worked.So stick with it.
Can’t really tell whether Gem is disingenuous or not. I wont cast aspersions. He/she does sound like that WT’s problems can be solved internally, bit like Maxwell Smart, “if only they were on the side of goodness and niceness.” I can’t see that happening
@Bad Penny: Stick around please…the “Territory” I was referring to is the Scriptures themselves. Have you not extracted that from the content of the ARC enquiry and from Paul Grundy’s Pod Cast? To use Garrett’s mammalian similes…”Don’t cast your Pearls before S***e”
No need to get on a plane to Brooklyn, Bad Penny. Just let “Reason” tie the knot in the rope.
Stay around…..please!
Bad Penny –
Shadier side of WT (JWs), you don’t have to wait to leave and see it in action.
This is what was said today Sunday, August 23rd at the Regional Convention at Frisco, Tx. By the Convention overseer Bro. Jarred Hardy. (It’s ironic Bro.Hardy was my brothers CO while he was in Bethel, my brother became an MS and then elder for about ten years. Then he learn TTATT. He no longer is an active JW.)
The introduction was strong as expected for the Illuminati in plain sight. Four points prove this, they were:
1). The last talk – Illuminati hide there secrets in plain sight.
2). A storm is coming – (“predictive programming “)
3). The symbol used in his introduction illustration was the Octagon – (Octagon Control)
4). The warning don’t visit apostate web sites.
The Illuminati hide there secrets in plain sight.
He started out explaining about a storm coming, – this would indicate a hardship of trouble for the 7 men in WT. The symbol used was the octagon, we know an octagon has eight sides, however, one man is no longer and only 7 men remain.
Bro.Hardy then explained 4 stops and 3 go’s. This would represent the 7 men remaining.
Then came the big admonishment – Illuminati hide there secrets in plain sight. ‘Do not read apostate web sites, do not become a doubter, (wait for it, wait for it, my words added) do not visit web sites such as, ‘JW what you don’t know, and another JW – whatever he said.
My books fell to the floor I could not believe he shared 2 web sites Not to go and read or visit.
Again, the Illuminati hide there secrets in plain sight.
For the active jw this information may be over the top, and hard to grasp. However, very real.
The WT – the 7 men are only following orders given to them. This was proven in the ARC when GJackson explain his role as a member of GB, ,’I review the articles (this is vague and a weak duck – following orders) for any corrections or whatever’. We all agree (the 7 men) and follow the article and the order – the Illuminati code.
Once you start your research on the history or the beginnings of the WT, then you will understand theirs a sinister dark side in place within the WT. Then you will understand the expression – the Illuminati hide there secrets in plain sight.
The band-aid is about to fall off.
Peace out
@badpenny
We’ve all been upset and hurt by Watchtower. Maybe it’s the child abuse issue, the control or false teachings, in the end it gets you, whichever way when your a truthful person.
Personally I believe the bible and I believe 1914 is the false Parousia, so in my mind James 5 1-8, it seems God agrees with you.
just waite and see
Minion, would you mind explaining a little clearer about what you heard at the convention?
It all sounds quite startling and it would be interesting to confirm if the 4 points at the beginning of your post was yours or their’s.
Also what is the reference to the Octagon? I would also understand your reference to the Illuminati as your thoughts but not mentioned as part of the speakers talk?
Can you identify what were the sites to avoid. Is JW Survey on the hit list? Just a tad of homework for you, Cheers.
enufgsenuff –
The posted comment is spot on.
The intro of a storm coming,
Then the symbol of the octagon his illustration.
Then the seven points explained,
The web sites to avoid, two of them. One was Jehovah’s witnesses what you don’t know, and the Jehovah’s witness beliefs or something to that effect. This was point number four from the octagon.
This leads us to believe jwsurvey.org is an approved web site by WT. Imagine that.
The Illuminati hide there secrets in plain sight.
FYI, attendance 3,999 and 33 baptized.
Do I need to explain the numbers.
Peace out,
Yes minion.
You need to explain ALL of it. I for one is someone who’s attention you really captured. I haven’t been to an assembly in 8 years. Can you go over it again in plain English (American for me) and just relate what was said? (Skip the candles and free masonry handshakes please.)
Waiting to hear from you.
G
Garrett –
The clean up version everyone present of 3,999 heard, and the fallen victim.
The chairman introduced the next speaker, Jarred Hardy of 27 years as convention overseer, will now give the last talk “As the Storm Approaches, Maintain Your Focus On Jesus”!
His opening remarks, ” we all know when a storm is approaching, you get prepared to survive this storm”.
Then he said, “we all know how an octagon looks, it has eight sides.
He explains the 4 stops, you should avoid. When he explains point #4 its about avoid web sites of apostates, he then mentions 2 by name, such as, “Jehovah’s witnesses what you don’t know”, and another. ” Jehovah’s witnesses and there beliefs or something to this effect”.
Then he explains the 3 points to stay focus on, you know, – Jesus.
He builds on these 3 points to round out his talk.
Something eerie happen during this last talk. Someone fell returning to there seat. Fell between the aisle. It was a distraction or sacrifice. Everyone’s head just turn to the area of the loud noise. Very eerie.
We want to welcome the newly baptized of 33.
The attendance was 3,999.
No more explanations, it is what it is. You know what I mean.
Peace out,
hi folks im just catching up on reading comments since my last post well it is so interesting all you have to say iwish i wish iwish you could have heard the conversation i had with my husband it was laughable every point he was making he still thinks this org is Gods instrument and he is so concerned for me and my tribe so i decided to play my final card i said well you lot turned the hose on hell many years ago and if us apostates are all doomed and going to die then so be it it is our choice its up to God not you elders who want to smack the little lost sheep if they return apparently we are not humble enough too damn right if and when i go up before the Judge i have lots of questions for him and i want an apology because im not seeing one from the visible realm and if i go to oblivion then thats alright because i wont have this endless do more go on the work mantra in my ears my last point today sorry a bit long i said how is it you keep having to remind us to preach it is too much and pointless i dont see you reminding the anointed to take the bread and the wine its such a daft religion bordering on bonkers so to all the dear little sheep who were abused and broken at least you know some of us love you even if we dont know you yet this site is our voice rl
@BadPenny . Your Comments are highly valued as are everyone’s here!! We can comment without fear of LOSING OUR FAMILY & FRIENDS FOREVER unlike what the GB & Elders can do to anyone who in anyway dares to put their hand up in the Watchtower Study & Say Anything In contradiction to the Supposed Interpretation of 7 Men in Brooklyn decide , who CHOP & CHANGE Interpretations with the wind of ‘The Generation ‘; ‘Sheep& Goats’ ; Gog & Magog; Blood Fractions; Organ Transplants; Who make up the Faithful & Discreet Slave; 1874( Christs Presence); 1915,1918,1919,1925,1975 etc!!
@BadPenny
Please do not stop commenting. I have been playing catch-up from last week and was just thinking how much I enjoyed reading your comments and thinking about how many of us there are experiencing the same issues (and bearing the same scars inflicted by The Org) here in the UK.
There is nothing more frustrating than trying to reason with active family members or friends, who even though they admit that many of the teachings (eg the dates – which the blasted thing is founded on) are wrong, or who acknowledge the corrupt history of the Org, but yet still insist that it is The Truth.
I am looking forward to watching tonights documentary on C5 about Escaping from the JW Cult. I believe that the more negative publicity the JWs get, the better!
@Rosie. Very Well Said !! I enjoy your comments as well as dozens of others on this site!!
At the end of tonite’s Channel 5 documentary about the Witnesses, they quoted the JW.Org website as saying ‘we do not advocate shunning of family members and allow them to have normal relations, if they decide not to be a witness’.
Could anyone tell me where that is on their website? Because it’s diametrically opposed to my experience!
Thanks and peace to every one of you.
When I freed myself completely from the mental chains of the Org, I had a joyous day disposing of all of the WT literature. The only thing that I kept, (and still have) was a Kingdom Ministry (from over ten years ago) which spelt out in no uncertain terms and in EXPLICIT DETAIL the cruel way a family member was to be treated if they were no longer part of The Org. I kept this as irrefutable proof of how the despicable controlling rules imposed by Watchtower DESTROYED my relationship with my family.
If they have indeed put something regarding the attitude to shunning on their website, then this is just more disgusting hypocrisy and another attempt to cover their cowardly backsides.
While I am deeply sorry for those who have suffered sexual abuse, I honestly feel that the Org also needs to be brought to account for all the Mental Abuse it has inflicted on so many of our lives.
(PS Thanks Pickled Brain. I often wonder how you are getting on with your campaign – I am sure it must be emotionally draining.)
@Bad Penny . Thanks for your kind words. Yes it is emotionally draining & sometimes I feel ‘HOW CAN ALL These Brothers & Sisters who have CHILDREN JUSTIFY the WICKEDNESS of the Governing Body Policies on Child Abuse over the Last 50 Years & Not Just walk out of the Kingdom Hall & never come back?! UNBELIEVABLE How normally kind & intelligent Humans Can Swallow ‘ALL THIS GARBAGE ‘ !!
Markw1509,
The quotation is from the FAQ section, under “Do Jehovah’s Witnesses shun former members” or words to that effect.
The quote at the end of the documentary lied by omission, because everything that they stated in the quote only applies if you are all together in the family home. As soon as you move out, the shunning begins!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
@Markw1509 / Excelsior!
The article on shunning can be found here: http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/shunning/
Direct quote:
“Those who were baptized as Jehovah’s Witnesses but no longer preach to others, perhaps even drifting away from association with fellow believers, are not shunned. In fact, we reach out to them and try to rekindle their spiritual interest.
We do not automatically disfellowship someone who commits a serious sin. If, however, a baptized Witness makes a practice of breaking the Bible’s moral code and does not repent, he or she will be shunned or disfellowshipped. The Bible clearly states: “Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.”—1 Corinthians 5:13.
What of a man who is disfellowshipped but whose wife and children are still Jehovah’s Witnesses? The religious ties he had with his family change, but blood ties remain. The marriage relationship and normal family affections and dealings continue.
Disfellowshipped individuals may attend our religious services. If they wish, they may also receive spiritual counsel from congregation elders. The goal is to help each individual once more to qualify to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Disfellowshipped people who reject improper conduct and demonstrate a sincere desire to live by the Bible’s standards are always welcome to become members of the congregation again.”
Thank you to Stirring Awake and Rosie, Excelsior and PickledBrain for your comments and pointers to the articles. I will be printing those hyperlinks off and taking them to the inlaws who are still trapped!
Wonderful to read all your comments. Thank you!
Has anyone listened to this latest interview with a former elder on JW Struggle Youtube videos.
This is a 2nd Elder talking about the ARC. Such an intelligent, insightful man to listen to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi-TYNahp-4&feature=youtu.be
It’s encouraging to hear his thoughts. He is going through the Crisis of Conscience that all of us who have left have gone through and that some are going through this at the present time. I just wish all Witnesses would be honest with themselves and learn to think for themselves like this elder. I cannot believe how blind some are. I mean they just defy all reasonable logic. Thanks Grace.
I sent this by way of a link through Youtube to our son. I worked out how to do it. It’s up to him if he reads it or deletes it.
Grace –
Thanks for the video, and good concern’s this elder has. He was saying all the right things up until he talked about the LDC forms volunteer application. Question’s the CSC must know before hand about child sexual abuse on the applicant.
Unless the WT Corp is more concerned about the actual Free labor (for trades on site) it gets globally. To bad he did not cite as reference to the form. However, it might be WT Corp may have two forms and not one.
The new form I have, is LDC- DC – 50 – E 1-15, title “Local Design/Construction Volunteer Application. Near the bottom of the form you have a title, ” Material Below Concerns the Congregation Service Committee “. I quote; Those who view material inappropriate for Christians, such as pronography, do not qualify. The applicant must not have been reproved or reinstated with in the past year, and all restrictions must have been lifted. End of quote.
This is a sentence to consider and be known by the CSC, and not necessarily be asked to the applicant.
Just an observation, you decide. Maybe someone has the LDC labor application.
Peace out,
Grace –
Thanks for the video, and good concern’s this elder has. He was saying all the right things up until he talked about the LDC forms volunteer application. Question’s the CSC must know before hand about child sexual abuse on the applicant.
Unless the WT Corp is more concerned about the actual Free labor (for trades on site) it gets globally. To bad he did not cite as reference to the form. However, it might be WT Corp may have two forms and not one.
The new form I have, is LDC- DC – 50 – E 1-15, title “Local Design/Construction Volunteer Application. Near the bottom of the form you have a title, ” Material Below Concerns the Congregation Service Committee “. I quote; Those who view material inappropriate for Christians, such as pronography, do not qualify. The applicant must not have been reproved or reinstated with in the past year, and all restrictions must have been lifted. End of quote. No mention of child sexual abuse.
This is a sentence to consider and be known by the CSC, and not necessarily be asked to the applicant.
Just an observation, you decide. Maybe someone has the LDC labor application form.
Peace out,
I just read this quote – “”Can you understand how a woman might feel when allegations which she makes of having been sexually assaulted by a male are determined exclusively by men?” royal commission chairman Peter McClellan asked.
Mr Jackson responded: “These elders, they are friends of those in the congregation.” ” – Is he for real?
I never considered ANY of the elders my friends.
And he obviously misses the point of the question asked of him.
@Ocma . You make a very VALID POINT ! Geoffrey Jackson REALLY DOESNT UNDERSTAND the TRAUMATIC & DEVASTATING EFFECTS of CHILD ABUSE! Most Elder Bodies I have known are NO BETTER THAN a GENTLEMENs CLUB ! A CLUB For the BOYS & Elders DO NOT LIKE ME IN MY CONGREGATION !
Pickled Brain,
You need to utter some lovely, up building guff about “Jehovah God’s spirit-directed Organisation” and the wonderful spiritual paradise! You need to gush about how wonderful the “faithful and discreet slave” is for all they selflessly do for us!
If you don’t suck up enough, then you will be marked and you will fail in your mission. I know it is disgusting to have to say such crap, but it is necessary.
You are an actor when you are around the JWs. You need to convince them through your performance that you are still a loyal, drowsy, compliant little sheep! The easiest way is to pioneer, but I don’t advise it, unless you can do the bulk of your hours on your own. Then, you can just make up the hours! Let’s face it, if your are a pioneer and you utter gushing praise of the Organisation, they will probably think you are ok. Hell, if you are a regular publisher and utter gushing praise they will think you are alright!
Here’s a tip! If you want to highlight something, then just praise the crazy. Be eager but dim! Ask the elders to explain the teachings, to help you preach them better. Then, the elders have to think these policies through, in order to explain it to you.
I don’t envy you your mission, but I do wish you all the best of luck.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
@Excelsior. Thanks for your good advice. I have been applying it most of the time But I can’t resist being a bit sarcastic some time in my comments in the Watchtower study. I say sometimes’ I hope the Governing Body get the interpretation of this scripture right this time !! ‘ which is met with DEATHLY SILENCE!! & then certain Brothers & sisters pointedly BLANK ME after the meeting!! Such Christian Love??? I am thinking to myself ‘ What happened to Christs Advice ‘ Love your Enemies?’
Just proves IT IS CONDITIONAL LOVE!! Based on whether I follow WATCHTOWER ORGANISATIONs Letter of the Law rather than Spirit of the Law!!
It’s called Public Relations.
Thank you all for your kind comments – I will be back!
Thanks Karen Morgan for your input into the Channel 5 documentary. It was good to see familiar faces on the TV telling their story.
Let’s hope it will help a few more doors to close on JWs.
Grace,
Thanks for posting the interview with the elder, well worth
listening to. A point that resonated with me was, how tight
fisted that org, is. He mentioned the form that volunteer workers
on the new H,Q, have to complete, which asks the question,
“Are you able to pay your own way”. — So not satisfied with free
labour, they want to squeeze travel costs to the site from the
volunteers as well.
I attended two elders courses at Bethel, a month in all,
as well as standing the loss of wages I had to pay my own rail
fare. On top of that, each class was asked to contribute for the
food they had consumed. These courses were exclusively for
their benefit, how to implement WT policy, nothing more.
Another point the elder made, which emphasises their uncaring
and mercenary character, Was the removal from Bethel ( Without
any support) of those who fell sick or were injured.
What prompted me to comment on these aspects, was a phone
call yesterday from my daughter ( still in ), telling me about
some recent counsel, “On the need to be “Generous” !
What a tangled web of doctrine and policy. Even Mr. Jackson was having a tough time untangling it all. And was Mr Jackson wearing an Apple iWatch???
I believe it is the $17 000 rose gold Apple Watch. My spouse is a Apple/tech fanatic and knows all the new gadgets. The gold and rose gold editions are solid gold, they are not available plated.
I own an apple watch because I’m a Mobile Developer. They are very useful, but if it is infact the 18k gold edition that is just shameful. It isn’t justifiable at all.
Do we know when the Royal Commission will resume?
Where does it all go from here?
I thought the C5 programme was very fair- the comments from ex witnesses were not bitter or angry but saying it how it is.
And that is to their credit because it is very easy to become bitter and angry unless you make a conscious decision not to be.
Yes it has influenced our choices in life and the decisions we have made.
But I feel it has also given us a great deal too.
Friends, company, support often – and an ability to mix with people from any racial or social background – age being no barrier to friendship.
That’s why drifting/ leaving is so very hard.
It takes strength of mind and honesty to be able to celebrate the positive aspects of our culture rather than rubbishing everything to justify leaving.
I think we have to go through an angry phase – but when you come through that you are in a much better position to support those who are at a different stage.
Those on the C5 programme seemed to be pragmatic and fair- I’m sure they have been through the turbulent phase and are into calmer waters.
A sense of peace and calm comes when you can admit that you no longer go in the ministry or to meetings to your friends and don’t feel the need to influence them but rather support them through their journey.
Dear Sister Drifter.
My experience is a little different to what you describe.
I have been free of WT for several decades, and the relief that I felt as soon as I escaped was enormous. Life was certainly not easy, (as was brought out in the C5 documentary it was hard to integrate into normal society after being brought up “separate from the world”.) I was just so thankful to be free of the control and misery that I experienced as a born-in to the Org, (this was also brought out in the documentary – eg the stigma and problems going to school as a JW) that I shut the whole JW thing out of my mind for years, and got on with trying to build a “normal” life for myself. For the first time I found true friends, some older and some younger than me – people who liked me unconditionally for me, not because I belonged to the same Organisation as they did.
My family cut me off and I had no contact with any other JWs, so for these years I did not waste any time on anger, or thoughts about the Org, but concentrated on living. However it was only some years later when contact with family members was tentatively re-established and all the horrible controlling and emotional blackmailing rhetoric was brought up again, that the emotions I had kept locked away surfaced. That was also at the same time that TTATT began to emerge more prominently, (the UN scandal and the Panorama programme exposing child abuse etc), and I began to discover the massive double standards that existed within the congregation I had attended.
This was when I started to really realise the damage and negative impact this Org had wreaked upon my life and many others lives. For the first time, I began to be able to tell other people about the influence of JWs on my life. My counsellor told me I had every right to be angry. I am afraid I do not retain any rose-tinted thoughts of life as an active JW within the Org. Any pleasant times that I do recall were doing ordinary family things, not JW-influenced activities.
Unlike my time spent in the Org, members of my family “enjoy” being JWs – they have their own little group of friends, and it is a social club for them, with the happy insurance policy that they can enjoy this sort of life forever and anything that goes wrong in their lives can be blamed on Satan; so they do not want to face up to the fact that their way of life is a sham and a waste of time. (They could be spending their time on much more worthy things to help other people than flogging JW literature).
Should some extraordinary circumstances prevail that caused them to leave, (I keep hoping!), I am sure they would look back on their time in the Organisation as having contributed positively to their lives.
The anger that I feel about The Org, does not consume me and make me a bitter and resentful person; but instead motivates me to make people aware of what this Organisation is really like and to reach out to help others who are going through what I have experienced.
I wish you all the best in your journey.
Has anyone seenStephen Letts latest 10 minute Rant on TV.JW.Org about ‘ I Delight in the Law of God’ where he briefly mentions JUDICIAL COMMITTEES which if any non JW or any new one studying will think ‘What the Hell is that?’
I find Stephen Lett VERY VERY CREEPY in his Tone and Mannerisms! Stephen needs to ‘ Work On ‘ in the Theocratic Ministry School … TOO Many Gestures; Modulation in the Wrong Places; Too much Stress Emphasis & MOST of ALL I find Mr Stephen Lett … VERY UN- CHRISTLIKE in the way he delivers his talks ALMOST THREATENING in his MANNER!! He Needs to Work on Mildness, Love & Kindness!! Anyone Feel the same about him???
Also I wouldn’t trust him with my children’s…. Future!
Pickled Brain,
I have heard that Lett has a stutter, and so he uses that strange modulation and exaggerated mouth movements to compensate. I have no idea as to the veracity of this claim.
In any event, his mannerisms, facial expressions and sense stress are way out of whack and I, too, find him very false.
It amuses me that Jesus Christ would allegedly choose such a pathetic, nasty, surly, ignorant, bigoted, sociopathic bunch of degenerates as these 7 men are, for his “little brothers”.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
I will have to watch for that program on Youtube. Sounds interesting.
I have to say that you do get peace in your life as the pain and anger subsides but it can come back again in a rush when you see the cruelty inflicted on others by the Watchtower. And of course the more you look into it and see the hypocrisy by the part-owning of certain unsavoury companies like a US naval research company, being part of the UN, having origins from the Free Masons, trying to sue people for whistleblowing about the number of pedophiles listed at Brooklyn Bethel, the list of which has since ‘disappeared’. I’m talking about Barbara and Joe Anderson who were taken to court by the seven corporations of the Watchtower for speaking up. I’m talking about the numerous pedophile victims who have been given hush money so they would not take their stories to the media in the US. This is not to mention what the ARC has brought up. The list goes on and on. What hypocrites that they made us suffer and swallow their harsh requirements. So you might be peaceful for a while but when you do your own research over the years, you realise what a bunch of crooks they really are. And that is not mentioining the money situation which is sure to come out from the Charity Commission’s findings in the UK.
@Pickled Brain,
Let us know what Lett said. I can’t bring myself to watch it.
I think that they are getting wind of some talk that JC’s should be gotten rid of. I noticed Geoffrey Jackson said it in his questioning like he was trying to defend why they have them. He quoted the usual cliche, “to keep the congregation clean.”
It will be something that I will be making a point of when I give my story in few months time. I truly believe that it breaks the law. I bet there are many hidden crimes inside those JC’s.
When you think about it, in the real world if a person has problems with someone or something in their life. They will sort it out for themselves. The job of the shepherds like that elder said with the Candace Conti case, “they are there for the spiritual protection, not physical protection. That’s up to the secular authorities.”
So the shepherds should really only there for spiritual support not judgement. That’s just my opinion as to why they were put there in the first place by God. It was supposedly to be a hiding place from the wind but we all know that they’re are corrupted by power & secrecy.
@Grace . Stephen Lett basically was saying most JWs bought before a Judicial Committee when asked why they SINNED ? The Sinner said ‘ I Don’t NO’ even though they knew the sin was wrong .
& Yes I agree with your reasonings in your comments, but what will be of interest to new ones Logging onto TV.JW.Org that WE DO HAVE ‘ JUDICIAL COMMITTEES’ who are made up of Fallible MEN & Not Women who Make JUDGEMENTS on other Sinners like themselves. There is no mention of Judicial a Committes when a NEW person is studying or even when they go through the Questions prior to Baptism. So I am glad Mr Lett mentioned it in a Public Broadcast maybe inadvertently.
On a personal note in your comments to MeredithJ about you being able to get out after listening to the ‘ARC’. I think the Australian Royal Commission has given a lot of Ex-JWs REAL HOPE & Encouragement that this Watchtower Organisation can be made to pay for the EXTREME HURT & AWFUL PAIN it has caused to millions of people through breaking up families through Shunning!!
@Meredith,
I would love to know how you go with your brother. I agree with you too about knowing all of this stuff & how it lifts the weight of guilt that they loaded onto us all of the years & now they can be the ones in the judgement seat.
The ARC was the thing that got me out of the house again which has been a huge healing process for me. I actually haven’t seen many witnesses around lately. Maybe the tables have turned & they’re hiding now.
So pleased Grace that you are getting out and about again. The ARC has just vindicated us to all our friends and family who know why we left. And you must be getting comfort from knowing that what happened to you has not been forgotten by God.
I don’t get many visits from the Witnesses much now. I see them at the markets and nobody goes up to them, only other Witnesses. It’s terrible that you can feel so apprehensive of going out in case you run into someone who will give you the snub treatment. We had to move at the time like thieves in the night to avoid the confrontation. It was the only tactic we could think of. How they have disrupted our lives so. Really, they are the ones to be pitied now because they haven’t woken up.
Women will never be allowed to be part of the investigative process of judicial cases. Terrence O Brien is trying to mislead the Commission. The Australian Branch cannot recommend anything, they only follow instruction. There have been over 5000 cases of child abuse in USA and there was no change why will they change now.
@Concerned JW . You are right MEN ONLY will be on Judicial Committees. Terence O’Brien was definitely misleading!!
Nobody has mentioned yet that the WT has purchased QSC Telecom and they intend to build a “dark net fibre optic” system linking Warwick, Patterson and Wallkill. It sounds expensive. They have a deep pit of money to draw from whenever they want and I assume that money, looted from the Congregations accounts, is being splashed around. The hall that we went to, had $100K in the bank to build a new hall. The Cong can kiss that money goodbye and keeping up with maintenance is a problem now. There will be no new KH to be sure.
Seems to me they are more paranoid thanever. If there is closed loop “internet” are they hoping to catch the leakers? I remember late 70’s and 80’s where the WT lambasted the electric churches, now WT is trying to outdo them all. It is hard to see where they are going. The local elders lamented that the amount of money coming through the boxes is dwindling and badly
http://www.jw-archive.org/post/127323636803/jehovahs-witnesses-are-building-a-long-haul-osp
Nobody has mentioned yet that the WT has purchased QSC Telecom and they intend to build a “dark net fibre optic” system linking Warwick, Patterson and Wallkill. It sounds expensive. They have a deep pit of money to draw from whenever they want, and I assume that money looted from the Congregations accounts is being splashed around. The hall that we went to had $100K in the bank to build a new hall and it was handed over. The Cong can kiss that money goodbye, and keeping up with maintenance is a problem now. There will be no new KH to be sure.
Seems to me they are more paranoid thanever. If there is closed loop “internet” are they hoping to catch the leakers? I remember late 70’s and 80’s where the WT lambasted the electric churches, now WT is trying to outdo them all. It is hard to see where they are going. The local elders lamented that the amount of money coming through the boxes is dwindling and badly
@Enuffs . I’m SO GLAD You Bought this point out. Yes they will be able to SPY ON EVERYONE AT BETHEL when they have their own in house Telecoms Network!! VERY VERY SINISTER for anyone working at Bethel in USA !! More Cult like everyday!!
& Yes our congregation in Southern England has Donated £125,000 to USA Branch & our Hall is Badly in need of Repair!! We only have 3 months operating Expenses!!
enufgsenuff –
Good morning to all,
There was a report of the sell from the owner (a brother) to WT Corp. QSC Tele is based in Florida, this purchase was about 3ish years ago.
The only advantage of having your own “dark fiber network – cable” is your untraceable and secure. Your browser is not traceable. Since WT Corp is a true (WT Organization) Corporation we All need to up grade our terminology and start addressing the WT Org (or Borg) as WT Corp. It’s a hard-line Business.
The actions from WT Corp in the last 5 years prove this, they realize the big A is not happening anytime soon. So they are placing the pedal to the metal. Aggressively modernising there IT infrastructure by way of a VPN dark fiber secure network cable system.
As you know I attended my RC in Frisco, Tx this past weekend. How advance is there movie studio production and capabilities for streaming live broadcasting?
All dramas are now ‘in house’ manufactured at WT Corp.
All demos are now ‘in house’ manufactured at WT Corp.
The annual broad WT Corp meetings are now streaming live.
All elders should be concern of this movement, why? Because the writing on the wall reads, You are to be replace ,(all elders) by Artificial Intelligence by way of live streaming or delay tape.
All Corps 500 have a dark fiber network cable system known as VPN – a secure network. WT Corp is doing the same.
As a side note, WT Corp through the LDC (formally known as RBC) has several IT crews going around the (US -states) and setting up and modernizing the sound box systems – modems etc. To vadilate the KH conforms to WT Corp when they go live.
Peace out,
Where’s Will Smith? Sounds just like some weird Sci Fi movie.
Sorry about that I left off the link
http://jwleaks.org/boe-letters/
QCS intends to build a high-capacity dark fiber infrastructure to interconnect Watchtower’s facilities at Patterson, Wallkill, Warwick, and Tuxedo (See Exhibit A, Map of Watchtower’s Facilities) and to enter into a total output contract with Watchtower under which Watchtower would purchase 100% of the network data, voice, and internet services that QCS can provide.
Here’s the Channel 5 documentary that you were talking about:
Inside Scientology and Escaping the Witnesses
https://youtu.be/b3k__0NGM2s?t=17m21s
Thanks fedup for the link. I listened to the whole thing and the only lie that was told about the Watchtower Society was at the very end when the Society’s reply was to say that when it comes to disfellowshipping, the family ties are not broken and remain the same. All of Jehovah’s Witnesses know that is only if that person is still living in the home and probably a minor, in which case the law says that the parents have to take care of the child until they are old enough to move out. If that relative is not living in the same house, then all ties are broken.
@Anonymous . EXACTLY!! Your Last Point is ‘ the Truth’ about Shunning!! But the JW Website is so deceitful on this subject that it is trying to HIDE What We All Know about Shunning if you have ever been a JW!! If the GB represent God why be SO DECEITFUL???
The more i read about these jokers the more i get disturbed. I wish i had never heard of this cult . My cousin is trapped inside this cult for the past 7 years and i have been trying to get him out. Quite an uphill task i tell you.
ha ha ha ha some of you have been peeking inside my brainwashed brain only last night i was gushy gushy with a dear sis her pointless life running round the country so totally involved in foreign language service i say pointless because the “studies” wont give up smoking maybe we can get special dispensation then we can boost the dwindling numbers one little point of interest our little elder lapdog who is at uk bethel two days per week gave PT last sunday i kid you not it was like a rebuttal to all our recent posts so obviously a hook to see who would comment ie only those inthe know would know so all of us still in the grip of la la land have to keep one step ahead he did say we were bought by JC thats new isnt it and we should read our Bible have you noticed JWs dont actually read their Bible just publications i do feel a fraud at present as i really will be on my own if i jump so keep the posts coming as some of us need these lifelines. running with the hare and hunting with the hounds is exhausting but a teensy weensy bit exhilarating! tee hee rl
@Ruth Lee . I like your definition of running with the hare& hunting with the hounds which is exactly what I am doing & yes it can be exhilarating but exhausting at the same time! You must be from good old English Stock judging by the terminology you use !! TALLY HO!!
Running with the hare and hunting with the hounds!
That is so like how it is!
Pretending you are in to some and being out to others and knowing that at some point your worlds will collide……
But it feels like lots of people are actually feeling this way- it is so very difficult to be honest.
At the end of the video (posted above) the Watchtower makes the comment that ‘normal day to day dealings may continue’ with a family member who has been shunned or disfellowedshipped. Thank you Watchtower that I ‘may’ decide for myself regarding my family. If ‘may’ is not controlling language I don’t know what is.
@Jake . You are SO RIGHT! When the GB use terminology like we ‘MAY’ ???have Day to Day contact if the family live in the same household ,it is ALL ABOUT CONTROL from 7 MEN in BROOKLYN! But we can’t have association if a Family member who is Disassociated or Disfellowshipped say if they Rent a house or flat next door because technically they aren’t living under the same roof!!!
TALK ABOUT ‘PHARASAICAL MAN MADE RULES ‘
Where is Jesus Admonition to LOVE OUR ENEMIES & PRAY for those who are PERSECUTING US!!!
That “may” is a public comment, so JWs don’t look extreme. We all know that talks and magazine have consistently said that even if they are family members, they can’t be spoken to, because of loyalty to jehovah. Also, Jackson said at the hearing that it would be presumptuous of them to think of themselves as appointed by god, yet what have we heard from the platform? Lies!!!
That three letter word (may) confirms that what was said about you in that documentary by those individuals was true and correct. Thanks
We also had our RC last weekend at our assembly hall, free parking at least, & zero contribution made as well. It seems with all the video stuff that they are pandering to the young & the older ones like myself are being forgotten about, we had Mr Lett on video a few times & yes what a creep, it looks like he was on his toes leaning forward, we also had Mr Jackson at his home which is in the same circuit, you would think he could have dropped in to the RC & gave a impromptu visit,talk, why do they hide, Jesus didnt hide.
This man shot a reporter and others live during a news report this morning… Guess what his upbringing was… The article doesn’t say he was an active witness…. Just thought it was interesting. As many of you feel, mental illness is higher in jws than the normal population.
http://www.people.com/article/vester-lee-flanagan-bryce-willams-the-man-who-allegedly-shot-3-people-live-tv
Yes! For example, my sister is severely mentally ill and my brother committed suicide – 26 years old. Cause: impossibility live in freedom.
@honza, I’m so sorry… Unfortunately it’s not uncommon to hear of suicide and mental issues in jwdom.
Thank you!
Yes, yes. Many JW have mental problems!
@Queen Elsa
Thanks for providing the link.
“Born in 1973 in Oakland, California, to Vester and Betty Flanagan, he was raised as a strict Jehovah’s Witness. Life seemed stable.”…
I guess “strick” wasn’t strick enough or failure to adjust/assimilate based on JW’s principles or “He talks about how he was attacked for being a gay, black man”*, etc etc etc. In short, a troubled man but he knew what he planned and did!
* http://abcnews.go.com/US/shooting-alleged-gunman-details-grievances-suicide-notes/story?id=33336339
IMHO
dogstar
Grace –
Thanks for the video, and good concern’s this elder has. He was saying all the right things up until he talked about the LDC forms volunteer application. Question’s the CSC must know before hand about child sexual abuse on the applicant.
Unless the WT Corp is more concerned about the actual Free labor (for trades on site) it gets globally. To bad he did not cite as reference to the form. However, it might be WT Corp may have two forms and not one.
The new form I have, is LDC- DC – 50 – E 1-15, title “Local Design/Construction Volunteer Application. Near the bottom of the form you have a title, ” Material Below Concerns the Congregation Service Committee “. I quote; Those who view material inappropriate for Christians, such as pronography, do not qualify. The applicant must not have been reproved or reinstated with in the past year, and all restrictions must have been lifted. End of quote. No mention of child sexual abuse.
This is a sentence to consider and be known by the CSC, and not necessarily be asked to the applicant.
Just an observation, you decide. Maybe someone has the LDC labor application form.
Peace out
Good point except the application mentioned in the video referenced the temporary volunteer application for Warwick not for the LDC.
The form is A-19 under spiritual condition and background.
There is a really good interview on Youtube by TheGreatApostate and I can’t figure out how to paste the location here but it is well worth listening to. It was recorded recently and includes talking about the trial going on in Australia. This is the location:
My radio interview with “Showcaine” radio NYC!!
Here’s the link:
https://youtu.be/vXUz4eqrcc0