The previous two articles in this series have discussed Watchtower policy and scriptural debate. However, this is not some theoretical debate of interest only to scholars and lawyers. At the core of all this back and forth over scripture and law are real human beings.
What is the actual impact of Watchtower policy when put into practice for real abuse survivors?
Two of these survivors were able to give detailed and comprehensive testimony at the ARC hearings, and the submission of the Senior Counsel contains detailed findings related to their experiences.
The Case of BCB
The first survivor was a woman referred to as BCB in order to protect her identity. She described how Jehovah’s Witness elder Bill Neill repeatedly abused her from the age of 15. She outlined the various impacts of Watchtower’s policy on her case in harrowing detail. These included:
- An instance where, as per Watchtower policy at the time, she was forced by the elders to confront Bill Neill, repeat her accusations directly to him, and hear him challenge and dismiss them – an experience she found deeply traumatic.
- She was required to describe intimate details of her assault to a room full of men. As a result, she found herself unable to fully detail the worst aspects of her experience.
- She was given no counseling or support for her extreme emotional trauma, and was simply instructed to read Watchtower literature.
Even though the elders claimed to believe her, due to the two witness rule, nothing significant could be done. Neill did step down as an elder, but the reason was not announced to the congregation. No further sanctions were imposed. Neill remained a Witness in good standing.
And almost unbelievably, BCB was forced to continue attending meetings in Neill’s home.
I’ll say that again.
- BCB was required to continue attending meetings in the home of the man whom she had stated, and the elders apparently agreed, had abused her.
Additionally, elder Max Horley and Circuit Overseer Doug Jackson sent a letter to the branch described as follows by the Commission:
148 The letter of 1 February 1992 further reported that both Mr Horley and Mr Doug Jackson were ‘impressed by Brother Neill’s acceptance of counsel and his humility throughout the ordeal’ and recommended that he be appointed as an elder again ‘once this has died down’.
Unsurprisingly, BCB didn’t fare well as a result of this treatment. She testified that she’d since had a nervous breakdown and required ongoing expensive medical and therapeutic care to deal with the mental and physical injures Neill’s abuse had inflicted.
Max Horley and Doug Jackson appeared before the ARC to defend themselves. They didn’t impress.
Jackson gave meaningless responses that often verged on gibberish, and a shamefaced Horley, despite attempting initially to defend his actions and Watchtower policy, in the end agreed that BCB had been terribly failed by both.
Here are just some of the Commission’s many detailed findings on the case of BCB. They back up and validate all the claims BCB made (bold is mine):
F6 It was distressing for BCB to be required by the elders to tell of what had happened to her to a group of men, including the man whom she accused of abusing her, and it was not likely to, nor did it, result in BCB disclosing the full extent of her abuse.
F9 The application of the two‐witness rule meant that there was insufficient evidence for the elders to act against BCB’s abuser even though they believed her, which left her feeling disbelieved and unsupported, and it left the abuser in the congregation where he may have been a risk to other children.
F10 Mr Horley telling BCB that she should not discuss her abuse with anyone left her feeling silenced and unsupported.
F13 It was traumatic for BCB and inappropriate of Mr Horley for him to have required BCB to attend Bible study at Bill Neill’s home when he knew that BCB accused Bill Neill of abusing her.
F14 The recommendation of the elders to the Branch Office that Bill Neill be reinstated as an elder ‘once this has died down’ and their expressed concern ‘that there may also be worldly people who also know’ demonstrates that they were more concerned about the reputation of Bill Neill and the congregation than about the risk that he posed to children.
The Case of BCG
BCG was born into a Jehovah’s Witness family, and had three sisters. When she was 17 her father, a ministerial servant, began to abuse her. Her initial attempt to contact the elders were rebuffed, and when she finally was able to get their attention, her story took a sadly familiar path. Among the indignities the Watchtower process inflicted, BCG recounts that:
- She was required to confront her father with the accusations, who became so angry and aggressive that he had to be restrained from violently attacking her. BCG found this experience terrifying.
- She stated that the elders, all friends of her father, appeared to attack her credibility as a witnesses, rather than support and protect her as an abuse survivor. She was left with the distinct impression that they were not impartial in the matter.
One of the most troubling aspects of BCG’s story highlights how elders can act in defiance of Watchtower’s rules with impunity.
Remember the two witness rule? Well, BCG told told the elders that her father had abused her younger sisters as well her older sister. The elders dismissed this report, stating that the girls were too young to know what they were talking about, and were not witnesses to the same event, even though Watchtower policy at the time would have accepted their evidence as a second witness.
During the hearings, the elders involved (Ron De Rooy, Dino Ali, and Kevin Bowditch) flat out denied under oath that she had made this report to them. Ali in particular was quite adamant on this fact.
To the clear shock of Ali, the ARC then produced a set of handwritten notes, taken from the congregation archives, and written by Ali during the investigation. The notes confirm, in Ali’s own handwriting, that not only had BCG informed the elders as to her father’s abuse of her sisters (a charge her mother corroborated) but that her father had confessed to the abuse before the elders.
Yet, despite having more than enough evidence to act, even under the discredited process of Watchtower, Ron De Rooy, Dino Ali and Kevin Bowditch did not find that BCG’s father had abused his daughters.
Among the many findings on the case of BCG, the Senior Counsel finds: (bold is mine)
F21 The evidence presented to the judicial committee of BCH having abused his other daughters satisfied the Jehovah’s Witness organisation’s own rules with regard to sufficiency of evidence to establish that BCH had abused BCG, but the elders wrongly ignored that evidence and accordingly failed to uphold BCG’s complaint against BCH.
F23 The elders inexplicably and wrongly ignored BCH’s confession to having abused BCG and thereby, within the precepts of the Jehovah’s Witness organisation’s own rules and procedures, failed to uphold BCG’s complaint against BCH.
F26 The failure by the elders to report BCH’s sexual abuse of BCG to the police had the result that BCH remained at large in the community and a risk to children, and reflects that the elders were not concerned with child safety but rather with keeping their organisation ‘clean’.
F27 The judicial committee’s failure to uphold BCG’s complaint of abuse by BCH conveyed to BCG that the organisation tolerated child sexual abuse within its ranks.
F28 The advice given by the elders to BCG that she not speak about her abuse to anyone had the effect of silencing her.
As a result of this bungled (or worse) investigation, BCG attempted suicide. Her father was later disfellowshipped on a separate charge of “loose conduct and lying,” though a later appeal did confirm the charges of sexual abuse as well.
However, he was still re-instated just three years later.
Upon being informed of this BCG, terrified for the safety of children in the congregation, decided to report her own abuse to the police. She alleges that Ron De Rooy threatened her with disfellowshipping if she did so. De Rooy denied this under oath, just as he denied BCG reporting the abuse of her sisters.
Among the many damning findings of Senior Counsel on the reinstatement are: (bold is mine)
F31 The decision to reinstate BCH took no account of the risk that BCH posed to children, paid little regard to the fact that he had been disfellowshipped because of child sexual abuse, and was focussed principally on his extra‐marital relationship.
F32 The decision to reinstate BCH took no account of BCH’s failure to apologise to BCG, a factor relevant to consideration of sincere repentance, or of what BCG might have had to say about BCH being reinstated.
F33 The decision to reinstate BCH was disrespectful and unsupportive of BCG.
Nonetheless, BCG took her case to the police. The ARC also found, after testimony from a legal professional involved, that the delays caused by the Watchtower process, and the clumsy nature of the process itself, had rendered much of the evidence inadmissible. Nonetheless, her father was finally convicted on the third trial. What did BCG have to say about this?
245 BCG told the Royal Commission that her experience of the three criminal trials was significantly less traumatic than her experience sitting through the committee meetings.
Today BCG is disfellowshipped, and is currently being shunned by Jehovah’s Witnesses.
A Plea to Elders
It may well be that you are an elder reading this. Perhaps you no longer believe in the faith, but are trapped, not wishing to be shunned by your family and friends. Perhaps you still consider yourself a Witness but believe, as other elders do, that in this specific area the Organization is making a terrible error of judgement.
Whatever the case, if a member of your congregation comes to you with an allegation of sexual abuse, please:
CONTACT THE POLICE
You may lose your privileges of service. But surely that is a small price to pay for being able to look yourself in the mirror and know that, when a vulnerable member of your congregation came to you for help, in the moment they needed you most, you did not fail them.
Further reading…
- Royal Commission findings: Governing Body member Geoffrey Jackson “evasive and unhelpful”
- Royal Commission findings: Watchtower policies place JW children “at significant risk of sexual abuse”
- Reveal article: Jehovah’s Witnesses shield child sex abusers from police, report says
- 12 things we learned from Geoffrey Jackson’s testimony at the Royal Commission
- Royal Commission’s Angus Stewart accuses Watchtower representative of deliberate deception
- Elders shamed under questioning by the Royal Commission
- Australian Royal Commission hears that 1,006 alleged child sex abusers were covered up by Watchtower
- Stephen Lett slams “apostate-driven lies and dishonesties” concerning child abuse record
- JWsurvey articles on child abuse
Thank you for this article. Job well done. These types of incidents need to be told. Keep up the good work
Faithless wicked men Will be outed it is just time now. This is one crazy flawed religion that is not worth the paper it is written upon, let alone the heart of the people. They most certainly are Not followers of Jesus Christ. This enquiry flags up the most insensitve system conceived. It serves no purpose anymore. To purport to be doing God’s will and blatently refuse to honour God’s compassion, and trusting young people, who they schooled to be truthful in all things really goes to show who their father is who they should go to and who is laughing at all this pain to humanity. You know all Jehovah’s Witness children form an early age are taught to not tell lies so those wicked elders who could not give the young people the benefit of the doubt because of stupid policy and their own stupidity deserve condemnation and some recompense due for their error. As far as watchtower policy well the final analysis to me is let them have it from both barrels its too late for squirming behind naivety and ignorance. After all ignorance is no excuse of the law be that the secular one or the God law they are supposed to be under. Mercy not sacrifice.The measure they have been measuring out over the past 50 years is shoddy workmanship and will fall apart. There is nothing refined or pure about dirty policies just victims and distasteful conduct along with downright lies. I am officially ashamed to have been part of this religion. it is God dishonouring and we will all get tarred with the same brush. A reputation shot to bits cannot be patched together and made to look good it just won’t work. Those that have eyes OPEN THEM! ruthlee
Ruth, knowing several victims of sexual abuse and gross incompetence on the part of the Elders and Watchtower Society, when will this Organization finally fail?
My friend in the Mid West was abused by her father along with her six sisters and the Elder Body did nothing.Seven Sisters were forced to provide explicit sexual descriptions while men in their 40s to 70s sat back. Her comment to me was “I always wondered if they had a bottle of lotion and sock under the table because it was horrible reliving our abuse, they were emotionless and immune to empath or had no compassion for my sisters!”
I don’t understand how the Elders and Watchtower Society could allow the father to continue as the PO when all these allegations were becoming more public. The girls were told to shut their mouths, they were told “don’t go to the police because it will bring reproach on Jehovah’s Name.” Did you know all seven of the sisters are obese, suffer severe depression and two of them killed them selves? Team Watchtower is a losing Team!
Watchtower want’s Happy Shiny People, they want all the members they destroyed to leave the Kingdom Hall so these Survivors won’t tell their stories and show the Watchtower Organization is a Fake Christian Religion! Its not fair to attack all Christian Religions as evil when their not following Christ’s Commandments, Jehovah’s Witnesses are a “Cult of Doom” and need their Tax Status along with other Cults removed and forced to pay back taxes on all donations they received.
How many Jehovah’s Witnesses do you see offering off help to victims of Mass Shooting, their MIA or might set up a Literature Cart near but they have no skills to help. Every evil event I hear “How many Brothers or Sisters were there?” and “Oh, those jobs required a education or college degree so I am sure no JW died, Praise Jehovah for keeping his People Safe!”
I agree with you ruthlee.
I too am ashamed to think I was a part of this. I was only thinking today how much I hurt my dear Mother when I became a JW. It was a source of contention right up until she died. Now I just want to hug her and say I am sorry – but it’s too late.
Let’s face it, we too were innocent victims of WT deceit and lies. If not physically abused we have certainly been mentally abused. Many have, (including me) gone through depression and some have even committed suicide because of the WT policies. We won’t get any compensation for our ‘abuse’. The best we can hope for is that, as you say, they get full recompense for their error.
May the Royal Commission findings go Global and destroy this mind controlling cult, AMEN.
I left the jws 4 years ago. I am not disfellowshipped. My husband left too but returned a year later. I spoke with him about the commissions findings. His attitude was ‘its old news’ and ‘this sort of thing went on a lot in the 70’s’, ‘it’s not like that any longer’- ‘the society has made changes’ blah blah blah
His response made me sooo angry I had to walk away. Even if what he claims is true (which it isn’t!) then why would anybody choose to gloss over the fact that regardless of how long ago this took place there were still CHILDREN that were damaged by the practises of this religion and its overseers. . My adult children who are still members would consider me an apostate if I mentioned it to them.
I wish they would wake up and be brave enough to question the organisations behaviour!
Ive had a thought about inheritance. Let’s say the current GB have inherited a weak structure with rotten policies. Not their fault technically but in a way even more reason to overhaul the whole system . To start with an unconditional apology would be a step in the right direction. Instead of denying it all happened and blaming everyone else ,its time to press on to maturity take some responsibility and acknowledge it all happened and God was not interested ,not one bit and that it was mankind’s doing. They could grow their book club along new lines and may get some credibility back.Some buildings do need demolishing for the safety of all concerned no point weeping over dryrot and faulty foundations Just because you have an inheritance does not mean you are rich that can be a delusion , a castle in the sky. They need a reality check and realise how poor they have become. ruthlee
In 1881 Russell said the body of Christ (144,000) was the faithful and discreet slave, and he thought himself to be among that number. As the GB does today, he falsely claimed the title for himself.
WT’s authority stands on its claim to the title “faithful and discreet slave.” Without that title, their associated claim of authority is false. From the beginning, WT never had any authority from God.
WT is a house with leprosy:
Leviticus 14:45 “He shall therefore tear down the house, its stones, and its timbers, and all the plaster of the house, and he shall take them outside the city to an unclean place (New American Standard Bible).
WT cannot be fixed. It can only be torn down. You can’t build a house of truth on a foundation of lies.
In response to the statement that the “WT never had any authority from God” here are my thoughts for what they are worth: I have been aware of, or witness to, a number of sinful acts by elders, and their relatives or friends. In every case, nothing more than a slap on the hand was given. These men remained in their positions of oversight, as their cohorts patted themselves on the back. Every time I prayed sincerely for these men to be fully exposed and dealt with appropriately. I could not understand why they got away with deeds that they should have been removed, reproved, or disfellowshipped for. Then duhhhhhhh……it finally dawned on me. Why should God care–it’s not His organization! A wake-up call that helped me get out of it.
Simon, well said………WT cannot be fixed.It is a house with leprosy. The God of mercy will destroy those who have mislead his sheeps.
Great article.
As someone who faded with my husband and son 4 years ago, I’ve had comments made to me on this site that it was easy for me since my husband and son faded as well. It was easier than for some, but still difficult.
I understand that it’s hard to do if your immediate family is still in. But usually the right thing to do IS hard.
My husband and I were in since early childhood and my son was born in. We had made hundreds of “friends” over the years – and all of them are shunning us. That is hard. But do I really want to be friends with someone who has no problem dropping me without a word if I leave their religion? What have I lost? Not a REAL friend.
My mother is still in – she hasn’t spoken to us in a long time. That is hard. I believe that a real mother would never shun her daughter for having different beliefs. It’s HER CHOICE to do so since I don’t believe what she does. The org means more to her than I do. It’s a sad realization, but in this case I really don’t have a mother – because a real one wouldn’t treat me this way.
We are calling the Witnesses hypocrites – how hypocritical is it to remain part of an organization when you know (and comment on) how horrible they are just to remain close to people who only care about you if you are “one of them”?
I’m sure I’ll get a lot of negative responses, and I know everyone’s case is different. But we can, and should do “hard” things – if they are the right thing to do. The freedom and relief you will feel cannot be explained.
I totally agree with you. Perhaps if all the ones that are in, started coming out, then it would be a wake up call for our those still in.
Bravo for you in getting out. Is it better to have it hard but be true to oneself? Absolutely!! Everyone is always trying to be someone your not. Be yourself and do the right thing! Peace is priceless!
Yes, although it was a lot easier for me and my son to leave as we had no other relatives in, it was four years from wanting to leave to actually leaving due to the fear of Armageddon. The journey out for me included having a mental breakdown on the way, so we should never underestimate the dangerous hold and fear this organisation, and others like it, have on it’s members.
Faith at gunpoint!
The WT claims that hellfire is unscriptural, yet what is the difference between the threat of hellfire vs the threat of Armageddon?
Religion certainly knows how to exploit the power of fear to their advantage in order to control people emotionally.
dee, no difference at all. A threat is a threat, either through eternal damnation or “everlasting destruction”. It’s all the same.
Bravo brave girl.
Excellent Comment @M Saurus! I know how difficult it can be to leave but after I realized that the JW’s were a mind controlling cult…I had to make the right choice and leave. Yes, that had consequences in regard to shunning but like you say…doing what’s right is often hard.
Sometimes, in order to do what’s right…you have to be willing to accept the consequences…but it is still the right thing to do…continue to be true to yourself and enjoy your freedom. Congrats!
Wow, l fall in that final paragraph, still in, serving, but realize that we are sooo wrong.
Kinda waiting for the shoe to drop…when I have been approached as of late my response has been “you need to call the authorities ” not me. But, the reality is the root of the problem is the same but the organization is aggressively attempting to cover their tracks and count on the sheeple to have a very short memory. Here it is we belong to a religion that is largely based on circumstantial evidence of events that took place 2000 years ago on one fateful nite, yet what happened 20 or 30 years ago, is considered ancient history and impractical and impossible to verify, and then even if it is, it’s considered irrelevant. ..really,…it’s for that reason that our real history (Rutherford, Russell and the like), mise well be the story of Santa Claus, great story who really cares about the facts.
A well done series of articles Covert Fade. Things going on within the organization make me want to shout it from the rooftop, however, it takes a lot of thought and discernment to reach such highly indoctrinated family and friends. Thanks for your research and thoughtful writing.
Regards
One more comment, ,,the apparent failure of the organization to properly handle child abuse cases, was not simply a failure to comprehend the magnitude of the problem, we keep far to many records for that, and besides, since the early 90s the branch has demanded to be directly involved in every case from the start. So there has to be another explanation…..
I would say, if there is a Devil, THAT’S the explanation — Satan, the “Father of the Lie”, the Tormentor of Humans.
It’s willfully ignoring principles of justice which the Bible outlines. Judicial hearings should be public and if young people do not wish, or are unable, to relate their problems they should be allowed to have a spokesperson do it for them, even if it is a woman, while the abused person stays out of the hearing. There is an old article in the 1997 Awake on the Inquisition, which denounced it on the basis that the accused person was not allowed proper legal representation and much was kept secret. I’d say this article denounces WT quite well.
@Sarah
Matthew 23:23, 24:“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You pay a tenth of mint, dill, and cumin, yet you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. These things should have been done without neglecting the others. Blind guides! You strain out a gnat, yet gulp down a camel!
Justice and mercy elude this organization, while they prefer to waste time deliberating on which pagan practices are acceptable or not or which medical procedures are okay, or in whatever other ways they can go beyond what is written.
They are too busy nitpicking to be bothered with justice!
WS
Thank you for the article.
We unfortunately have had to endure the meeting with the elders after our child spoke up about being abused by an ex-elder. I can agree with BGC that what goes on in those meetings is truly traumatic!
It’s been over 7 years and I still can close my eyes and see my young child being interrogated by elders. Men she was taught from infancy to respect sitting across the couch asking the same questions over and over again. Even at her young age, she felt they didn’t believe her.
Imagine the guilt her father and I had after unknowingly exposing her to this type of questioning, I truly believed they were there to help us…that’s what we were taught after all!
Elders are doing more damage then they know by questioning victims of abuse, they have no training whatsoever.
Please, as a mother who is dealing with the aftermath of this, I beg any elder to follow what was said at the end of this article. Contact the police, let them do what they were professionally trained to do in these cases.
The violence that happens to someone who is sexually abused is horrific and monstrous. For the JW Org. to treat this lightly, it is showing everyone just how little they think of a child’s wellbeing and how much they think of protecting their own reputation. Karma is: They cause their own reputation to be ruined by hiding such evil.
It is tragic, but also encouraging, to read of so many Witnesses, who no longer believe all the ever changing Watchtower drivel, but feel obliged, for family unity, to go through the motions of dreary meeting attendance, book studies and door knocking.
Expansion is at a standstill, even with sanctions like shunning, and desperate moves to dunk the kids before they are old enough to think for themselves and defy their parents.
It will take time, but the oceans of well deserved ghastly and horrific publicity such as provided by this and forthcoming Royal Commissions, will surely be the end of this grubby little misery making cult.
We all need to write letters to major video news magazine shows in our respective countries to ‘tip-off’ the producers about this story. Stories like this, unfortunately, sell a lot of press here in the USA. Anything to do with sex scandals or sexual crime get front page billing. This should be a whopper for the press and they are missing the boat here. Should I bring dishonor on Jehoviah’s organization? YES. Because this is NOT Jehoviah’s, God’s, or whatever you wish to call it. This case and the uncaring leadership is proof. It should be exposed for all it’s worth!
Searcher, you misspelled Jehovah twice in your comment. Not to be paranoid, but are you for real? No Witness would do that….
Sorry. Fat fingers I guess?
Or maybe a fat head. :)
Go for it. I have considered doing the same.
Lol! Me too. It’s a name I can’t read, say or think of without some feeling of distaste, so any misspelling or deliberate tinkering with the word sounds good to me. :)
Me too. I’m SICK of hearing the word “jehovah”.
Dare I say It I would rather hear the name Jesus from Christians. Oh well Jdubs are not Christians shame isn’t it. It took 100 years to work that out .ruthlee
I started and cancelled a reply to this string 3 times – it’s hard to articulate my thoughts on this.
I do get uncomfortable when I hear or see the name “Jehovah” as well. But I have mixed feelings about that.
While we will likely never know the correct pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton, I still recognize the name “Jehovah” as assigned to it in the English language.
It’s sad – the reproach that the JW org has brought upon this name. There are Christian denominations out there that recognize this name as representing God, the Father, or the Creator in a positive way.
But the JW’s have associated the name with a vindictive, vengeful, mean-spirited punisher. They certainly have not sanctified this name as they claim. I definitely avoid use of the name and simply refer to God or the Creator.
That’s my two cents, anyway.
WS
Probably people feel bad about using that name because it has been added to the Bible when it originally wasn’t there.
http://www.bible.ca/jw-YHWH.htm
Shouldn’t be surprised that they lie, they lied about 1975 and brought countless thousands into their nest. Survey is doing a great job and many years from now when the Watchtower is just a distant sad memory the good folks at Survey can kick back in their rocking chairs out on their porches and proclaim “We had a hand in that…” And they can be proud as we are of them.
Lovely sentiments and plea at the end.
I know there are still some decent elders amongst us. I would hate to come across an abuse case but even so, the victim needs all the love & support they can get, so it’s our human duty to get them the professional help they need.
I would like to see the WTS TRY and remove me as an elder for reporting or for helping a victim report a JW abuse to the police! That’s publicity they wouldn’t want.
Well Joe we know they wouldn’t say a word. Their policy already states that “any brother who contacts the authorities should not be criticised”.
Your outspokenness will likely spell the end of your service as an elder. There are alot of good men just trying to do the right thing. The right thing as they’ve been taught that is. I’ve known many that when presented with situations like BCGs have stepped down and stated ” serving as an elder is too awesome a responsibility for me”. After which they went inactive.
The watchtower society/JW.org will be their own undoing. They will push away their brightest and in many cases their most loyal which is very self defeating. It is possible that honest people will eventually take over the leadership but even that is a death sentence for the org.
One only needs to look at the end result for similar groups to see the direction watchtower is heading towards. An example can be found in the group known as the worldwide church of God. Their organizational structure closely mirrored that of the watchtower society complete with a governing body who yielded only to the President and founder of the group. Disfellowshipping, misleading and damaging policies, false prophecies, you name it. Many suffered as a result.
Eventually the founder died and left a successor. The successor was a very honest man who after his appointment wrote a letter to all congregations. The letter can be summed up in these words : “everything you were taught are lies and mistaken concepts of men. We are sorry for misleading you and the suffering that was caused”.
The organization shortly crumbled after that with small splinter groups forming. The most prominent being found in Pennsylvania. A mere shadow of its parent organization.
I believe that the watchtower organization knows that this will be the end result. Their goal is self preservation without the consideration of the people in mind. How long can this go on? Who knows, but it can’t and won’t go on forever.
Joe – you should remove yourself! How can you still be an elder with all this stuff going on??
@M SAURUS
To answer your question: because
1) Somebody has to make sure the congregation is looked after properly and ensure that the elders don’t enforce their own rules of men. The brothers & sisters need to have someone to back them up and it’s a lot harder to do that if you’re not an elder as unfortunately there’s always one who tries to abuse his power.
2) To my knowledge we have not had a single case of child or domestic abuse. If we did ever come across one, then at least the congregation knows they can count on me for support, especially with helping them to get professional help or from the authorities.
3) I have many good friends amongst my brothers & sisters in the cong.
At times it is very difficult and maybe one day I will relinquish my privilege if things continue their spiral downwards in the WTS. In the meantime, I do what I can and have a very clear conscience with God. Thanks.
Ave Joe I totally agree with you .Within we are rapidly losing the voice of reason and I believe brothers like you will be the safe haven at the end because when this does come crashing around their ears in ruins ,some of the weaker sheepw ill need solid support. It is tricky though because of continually having to listen to garbage and misapplied scripture .That becomes wearisome to the soul but Jesus put up with a lot rubbish so must we .Keep on keeping on bro reguards ruthlee
@RUTHLEE
Thanks Ruth if I’m honest though, I’d like to think it will be the average brother & sister who will be the safe havens, the ones who already put themselves out for others in spite of hardships. Obviously there are some good elders & servants too but many already abuse their position so I wouldn’t expect to get much help from them when push comes to shove.
“Within we are rapidly losing the voice of reason”
Ever read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand? All the men of reason leave society because of inane control by the government.
I resigned several years back because i was being told I had to condemn the innocent and exonerate the wicked. It was a matter of principle. Faded sometime later.
WS
If someone asks who is “the faithful and discreet slave” what do you say? You believe the GB’s claim to that title?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekh4wXdKTe4
To keep your circle of “friends” you must tell WT lies to householders when out in service.
@SIMON
Thanks for the question but do you honestly think that is a question the average householder asks a JW? I’ve never come across it.
In light of all current events, I very much doubt their claim, especially as the WT itself points out that the FDS won’t be appointed over all Christ’s belongings until just after the Great Tribulation.
A lot of teachings I grew up with in the 70s & 80s I still believe as they make sense to me. I’d rather believe there is a supreme God with a Master Plan for this earth, instead of the alternative that there is nothing.
As I’ve said in many other comments, I’m sorry if my stance annoys the JW and/or WTS haters but that’s me. I’m trying to be the best human being I can be and nobody else has the right to judge me at the end of the day, as long as I don’t purposefully harm anyone.
Going back to your question though, I’d honestly have to say that “I have my doubts” and we will have to wait until the end to see who really are the FDS. Hope that answers your question.
Not only do you have to support and teach the lies Simon but you also have to participate in the kangaroo court as an elder. That means active participation in the process of judging and shunning.
I understand what Joe is trying to do and I applaud his desire to support his “friends”. But those same friends, good as they are, will drop him as soon as hes removed and disfellowshipped.
It’s him and other honest men against the JW system. The system can’t be beat or won over. It doesn’t want to change or sees any need to. It’s a cult and like any cult the leadership is always right no matter what. The good men with conscience’s the non robots are buried and often suffer physically and mentally. I personally have seen many examples of that. Heart trouble, depression, you name it. They would be the ones to say ” why is the society making the friends do that it’s too much” while the robot elders would say “MOTHER knows best brother honest”.
You can’t hide it from the householder forever. WT uses it to support their claim of authority. The householder must learn it to become a JW like you. You want them to get them baptized “as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization” don’t you?
If don’t want others judging you, how can you serve as an elder on JW judicial committees? You don’t consider that judging?
When I left WT, I retained Christian belief. I separate WT lies from Bible truth.
I can understand you don’t want to lose friends. That’s the real reason people waking up stay in. It’s hard to start over. But there is life beyond WT.
Please see the video link I posted above. It’s a Bible based talk in KH format, with convincing common sense reasoning.
Joe. How many of those “good” friends would still be friends with you if you left the org? Zero. So are you just afraid of being lonely? You will find better friends, ones that do not drop you when you no longer practice a certain religion.
And although it’s very noble of you to want to stay in to protect the congregation – it won’t work. You are guilty by association.
You can still retain some or all of your beliefs – you need to be true to yourself.
On this issue, it’s always very tempting to tell someone what they “should” do, or what we would do in their shoes, and I understand the reasons for that.
But whilst I understand the motives and know that they are will intentioned, please remember that we are not them. We are not in their shoes, we are not the ones living their life, and ultimately a choice like this is one on the person themselves can make.
They should make it based on their own conscience, and feel no obligation to justify it to others.
Awake JW’s who are still inside can perform significant acts of kindness towards the flock, and also are significantly placed to carry out activism that official exJW’s cannot (more than one victory against the cult has come from people inside the organisation, often awake Elders, leaking things out at the proper time).
Likewise, they will also encounter unique ethical hurdles that ex JW’s do not, such as how to cope with needing to be seen engaging in indoctrination.
The ethical dilemmas and stresses we all carry are unique to us, but whatever your choice and whatever your path, make the one you feel is genuinely right, and live it.
Just my 2 cents
Excellent point Covert Fade. We benefit from people like Average Joe on the inside.
WS
Average Joe I felt the same about you when I first came to this site but changed my opinion over a period of time and closely reading your comments… I think and hope that there are more like you because we need a source of sanity in the congregations of people allowing their lives to be ruled by incompetent men who care little for them….we need the Average Joe’s of this world to be that safe haven that ruthlee mentioned…I will say Average Joe you know they will come for you in the end because you will not be able to toe the party line…your improved conscience will not let you … so just build some relationships outside the congregation and make a life to fall onto when everything involved with jws disintegrates… Im trying to do that and though hard it is part of the awakening process… meanwhile thanks for trying to help the teetering rank and file… we need it…especially slow faders like me… just watch your back AJ.
@Idontknowwhatodo et al…
I also read your comments carefully and it is a great relief to know that others feel similar to me and can, to a lesser or greater degree, comprehend the major guilt that I still feel for speaking out against those who direct what I feel to be God’s spirit directed organisation. If I get destroyed at Armageddon for trying to display Christlike characteristics and speak out against injustice in the organisation then so be it, but I don’t believe in a vengeful God like that.
I haven’t served on a JC as yet but I can assure you (and I know that’s difficult as you don’t know me) that I’m not easily swayed by what others think. We have had a few cases where some on the body have tried to impose their own opinions and harsh judgments on others and convince us to do the same but I have always spoken out and put a stop to it. I do speak up when needs be (the quiet ones are always the worst they say!) and have recently taken to quoting a passage from a recent WT study that stated ‘as elders, showing love to others is demonstrated by taking them at their word’. So until facts prove otherwise, if a brother or sister tells us something then we shouldn’t doubt it. Nor should we doubt their motives for doing/saying something. What really gets my goat is when an elder (or anyone for that matter) “befriends” you on Social Media then trolls your content to later report on what they don’t feel is “appropriate behaviour”. We have one like that in our cong so after he tried to get one of our youths disciplined (for something he’d jumped to conclusions about after seeing the photo), I had a private chat with all the youths in our cong that are on Social Media and warned them. I actually advised them to remove him from their list of contacts along with his kids so they wouldn’t be spied upon. So sad that we have to face this stuff in this day and age and that I have to protect the flock from some of the very shepherds who are supposed to be caring from it.
I am in no way perfect, don’t get me wrong; I have many flaws but I would never resort to petty things like that or abuse my power to force what I think on others.
It’s very difficult waking up and, as has been pointed out by other posters, there is the real possibility of getting shunned by others within the cong. Thankfully though, I too have formed a very large network outside the organisation over the years and have many good friends who are not JWs so it wouldn’t be the end of the world for me. I suppose I’ve always been a bit of a rebel really in the view of the WTS standards. It’s more for my immediate family that I don’t want to disappoint.
Sorry for the lengthy post but thanks to all of you for your feedback. I do read it all even though I don’t always agree and for those of you in a similar difficult situation (and that still believe in God), you’re in my thoughts and prayers.
AJ
You are brave and thank you for standing up. At times it is so difficult trying to help love ones wake up and see that the WT is a cult. I have to stay under the radar because some of the elders are working extremely hard to disfellowship me for warning members to report sex abuse cases to the police and not the elders. So far, to my knowledge no one has directly called my name. the elders are basing this on hearsay. Nevertheless, I am still afraid. It is very uncomfortable when the elders are watching my every move. Not a good feeling. I pray that soon the core of the WT and its policies are exposed for their wicked works.
Depressed –
I am sorry that you have to live in fear of the elders. Why? They should be shepherds and protectors of the flock. It is them that should feel guilty by allowing wolves to remain in the congregation, not you! Just think of them as ‘dust dressed up’, they cannot kill you. If they try to disfellowship you, count it as a privilege for standing up for truth. They would probably just try to reprove you. That could be an opportunity to slowly fade whilst still keeping contact with your family.
If, or when, you do escape, it will feel like a weight has been lifted off your shoulders. You start to breathe the air and appreciate living free.
Imgonaburn.
Maybe you could inform your husband that according to Tool’s testimony they still get 3 or 4 a month of complaints and allegations of child sexual abuse this in Australia alone, so the problem is not old and these are the ones they know about or have been reported.
So clearly shows that the GB policies have not worked and children are still suffering, their keeping this from the flock only gives the abusers more freedom to abuse, the two witness rule is dangerous and has to be addressed, only when the GB are forced by law will they do anything, and then it will be kept from the flock with elders being privy to information, until the elders allow their conscience to be their guide nothing much will change.
Its all about protecting the orgs image not children, but their days are numbered, all they can do now is make sure the flock believe its not their fault they will continue to do this by propaganda and blame.
Kat,
Thank you for your response. I will try and find the testimony that you referred to re 3-4 cases still occuring per month in Australia. Then I will mention it to my husband when I get the right opportunity. He’s a bit traumatised of late as I’ve put up a Christmas tree and garlands in one of our living rooms at the rear of our house. It’s the first time I’ve ever had the pleasure of doing such an outrageous thing lol. Out of respect for him it’s not in full view of passers by.
I’ve told them (my jw family members) that life is for living and I’m getting on with mine. I’ve had the conversations with them about how disfellowshipping is a cruel and unusual punishment etc and that a person should be able to leave the religion without losing their family. They insist that they themselves are not forced to remain [within religion] out of fear of reprisal/ consequences and are happy to serve Jehovah as pioneers/volunteers. They also say that if I choose to celebrate Christmas by having a Xmas tree they will stay away from our home til the new year when the festivities are over.
It will be interesting to see if the elders ‘come after me’ because of my celebrating Christmas because it’s been over 4 years since I last attended a meeting. It’s widely known in the local community that I’m not a jw any more, mainly because I tell everyone. Ha!
I’m not aggressively opposed to the religion as I think it’s counter productive. What’s the saying?… Innocent as serpents and cautious as doves? I do try to slip a little something into the conversation just now and then to try and make them think independently though. How they can shut their powers of reason off when it comes to issues surrounding child abuse within the org though is beyond me!!
Nice work!! Resistance starts in the home! BTW I love your turnaround of the quote (still not sure if it was intentional): “Innocent as SERPENTS and cautious as DOVES” — I think it’s an improvement — after all, doves are probably a lot more cautious than serpents (which must take risks hunting), and being as innocent as a dove could get a person SQUASHED in this world. Nice work again!! That’s my new mantra.
Yes, my mis-quoting scripture was intentional.
Feet shod with the good shoes of Pete.
Stay sane the vedil.
I have a lot more time on my hands now that I’m no longer preparing for meetings, attending meetings, dragging children to meeting, going on ministry etc etc
My son in law is not a JW – his mother is. He married my daughter – JW (df’d because she got pregnant to him and df’d – now reinstated but fading) He put up a tree and lots of lights outside the house :) My living room has some small signs of rebellion – some baubles and shiny things… I have a stack of gifts for my grandbabies wrapped and in the corner. I gave Christmas cards to clients this year. No one visits me from the hall anyway so next year maybe a tree. The whole abuse thing makes me sick and ashamed. I am now telling clients I am fading from the Org. and they are supporting me.
I purchased most of my Xmas decorations and tree in the post Xmas/ January sales last Xmas. I kept them all in a spare wardrobe for months. My husband knew about my plans well in advance. I told my 2 adult JW son and daughter more recently. We’ve always had coloured lights as part of our year round decor. I’d love to decorate the front of our house with xmas icicle type lights and have it all twinkly! Maybe next year you will have a Xmas tree in your home and I will throw some lights on a tree in my garden! ;-)
I like to think that my leaving the religion and demonstrating to my family that I’m happier without it will make it easier for them to leave should they decide to do so in the future. At least they won’t have to worry that by leaving they will lose me! It’s such a frightening prospect- getting dfd and being shunned by family and friends that I couldn’t criticise others for being too scared to leave. Everybody has to do what’s best for themselves until the time is right for them.
Imgonaburn Go for it. How good does it feel? I feel proud to be a Christian and enjoy the festive season related to the birth of Christ. Did you know that the Cedars of Lebanon were pine trees?
Thank you for this article. I strongly believe this, since a former friend of mine told me that she had been told that she could be disfellowshipped if she went to the police. Talk about putting a muzzles on an innocent victim. This is not the loving organization I once believed in
This is my first post on this website, tho I’ve lurked for awhile. This absolutely makes me ill. It is so freaking disgusting that it bothers me physically. I want to fight and puke and cry. There is absolutely no way this can be an organization directed by Jesus.
Despite my queasiness, the article was done very well.
You are so right! Makes me sick too!
No way this can be God’s organization and have all this secrecy and lies.
Speaking from personal experience, it is a real struggle making the decision, then leaving the Borg. No question. Just like any other major life decision. But, in considering the drawbacks, also take into account the benefits, such as FREEDOM, the ability to be an INDIVIDUAL, choose your OWN dress/grooming, lifestyle, associates, etc. “Every dark cloud has a silver lining.” “When one door closes, another one opens.” Think back through your life to times when something “negative” happened, which inadvertently and unexpectedly led to something positive, something positive which never would have happened otherwise. I know a guy who was DF’d last spring, and ended up having the best summer of his life, checking off one item after another on his “bucket list”. It may not be that dramatic for everyone, but, like I said, take time to consider the BENEFITS.
Good Luck :)
“Give me liberty or give me death!” – Patrick Henry, March 1775. That was spoken by an American revolutionary, but it is also very relevant to your thoughts. Freedom isn’t free! It comes with a big price and many people want to take that away from you to satisfy their power hungry ends. Once I got over the fact that they (the elders) would (and they did) destroy my marriage, then I found freedom that is OH SO SWEET. I don’t have to do anything for this evil cult, these self-servant leaders, or try to impress the rank and file in the Kingdom Hall. It is all about weighing the cost vs. the benefits of freedom. The benefits far outweigh the costs. Especially in self-respect.
I put those who deny and/or suppress these cases of abuse, up there with those neo-Nazi Holocaust Deniers. These are horrible crimes and there is absolutely NO excuse for covering them up!!! If WT is concerned about their reputation, I say, “What reputation??” Their squeaky clean rep. is already tainted. By engaging in further coverups, it’s just going to get WORSE. It’s like trying to hold water in your hand, or trying to plug holes in a dam with bubble gum. Get a clue, Watchtower.
Doesn’t the bible account of the flood say jehovah decided to destroy mankind because ‘the Earth came to be filled with violence’? Well, rape is, by definition, a VIOLENT crime. Ergo, Watchtower is GUILTY of covering up VIOLENCE, something which jehovah purportedly hates.
It is interesting about the Watchtower’s reaction to the Royal Commission.
So far I haven’t seen or heard any sort of apology in an official manner by the WatchTower.
I haven’t seen or heard any public acknowledgement that WT has changed any policies, re, women, shunning and child abuse.
I haven’t seen any acts of genuine empathy for any victim and I haven’t heard of any elder standing down in shame over their behaviour at how they have conducted a (sham) judicial case.
For example Dino Ali, elder on BCG’s case. A complete drongo who refused to accept the confession by the father of BCG.
Is he still there, et al, dispensing their brand of kangaroo court justice?
I have not had any word perhaps others have?
An elder in my former cong stood down a few years ago because of the way a sexual abuse case was handled. There was a sister in the cong who had sexually assaulted her own son and daughters when they were young. Her husband at the time was also a jw. He raped his own daughter to show her how horrible men can be and to illustrate to her how she needs to be careful! (Go figure?!!). Apparently he was a domineering bully towards his entire household so his wife went along with his demands and encouraged her daughters to comply with the abuse. They eventually divorced and she married a brother from our hall. Her children went to the elders about the abuse. The sister denied everything and claimed she couldn’t remember what happened. It ended up a police matter. Both parents were sent to jail. She got 10 years on a charge of sexual assault! He got longer.
The elder stood down because the sister was not disfellowshipped. She maintained her innocence throughout despite the testimony of her 3 children. It caused a lot of distress to many within the cong. I had already left by then so wasn’t involved in any of the hullabaloo. What I do know though is there was a rota drawn up by some do gooder in the cong to provide transport for her second husband to go visit with her in jail!! After sentencing she was moved to a prison many miles away so the rota was scrapped. The whole saga split the cong. The kh was vandalised and had graffiti spray painted on it about pedophiles. Her abused children got the blame for that but I know it wasn’t them.
Anyway, in my old cong at least, the elders were very much in favour of getting the police involved. What’s more, one of them on the committee handling the judicial did stand down.
Disagreeing those who claim to speak for God is tantamount with disagreeing with God. You will be viewed by such ones as an apostate, a heretic, a disgruntled one, an a opposer, a Satan.
Considering Matt 18 judicial procedure one can see that the two witnesses do not necessarily have to eye witness the incident. Bearing in mind the law regarding rape and the single witness in Deu it is quite evident that a single eye witness is sufficient.
It is quite obvious that this ( the watchtowers stance) is in error and it is equally obvious that this issue is not about what is truthful but rather about power and control, and the believe that these one speak on behalf of God. Having watched a number of the Royal commissions videos again it is clearly apparent that the elders are under the Watchtowers influence to the point were common sense leaves their minds. How very brave of such young women, and all those abuse survivors, to highlight this issue.
Has the Watchtower listened to these ones and changed their policy’s, after all they speak for God and can not be seen to be fallible.
“…….after all they speak for God and can not be seen to be fallible”………
an important concept if one is to believe that the Governing Body will rule the world after Armageddon. LOL.
If that bunch of circus clowns (GB) is running the place after Armageddon, then destruction at such event is a mercy kill!
LOL
Isn’t it just grand, God is going to replace the governments of the world (including the Australian government which is now unearthing the WT’s child abuse policy flaws) with the GB past and present who will rule in his kingdom over the WT’s promised paradise earth after all these other governments have been destroyed. LOL.
If only the new system would come right now so that earth’s new rulers (the GB) will have their way and be the ones to call the shots! They can’t wait to get their hands on writing those new scrolls that will be opened in the new system – imagine a two witness rule in paradise to deal with the child molesters who will be resurrected from the dead. LOL.
@dee. Maybe those child molesters that are resurrected in the New system won’t “desire” children since as the WT says, ” neither will they marry nor be given in marriage” but will be as a EUNECH! lol So that means they will be resurrected castrated.lol
Good one Holi Connoli! ROFLOL!
The new system can’t come soon enough. Castration – what better way to deal with those ressurrected child molesters especially given the fact that it won’t be possible to put resurrected persons to death if they should sin in paradise, since according to the bible: “NEITHER CAN THEY DIE ANYMORE”. Castrate them I say! LOL!
Luke 20:34-36:
“The children of this system of things marry and are given in marriage, but those who have been counted worthy of gaining that system of things and the resurrection from the dead NEITHER MARRY NOR ARE GIVEN IN MARRIAGE. In fact, NEITHER CAN THEY DIE ANY MORE, for THEY ARE LIKE THE ANGELS, and they are God’s children by being children of the resurrection.”
Asking Jehovahs Witnesses:- To your knowledge has anyone ever challenged one of Gods decisions (besides the devil) and remained in good standing?
Has the Watchtower ever enforced a false teaching upon its members with the penalty of disfellowshipping if that person refuses to accept that teaching?
If it is the case that you accept the Watchtower has acted in this manner then you have to recognise this is not necessarily about what is truthful but rather about authority, control and power.
In my opinion a Christians conscience, under these conditions, should be 1st and foremost on high alert. In spirit and in truth.
Dedicated to all those brave young people, fellow activists and my own daughter X
Peter Gabriel Wallflower live.
Stephen Lett’s earlier comment that this is all “apostate-driven lies and dishonesties” becomes more painful by the day. A modern day WT lie, carved in stone, never to be lost in oblivion. Does this man (or his fellow brothers of Christ) ever look in the mirror and ask himself “What have we done? Let’s apologize, change policies immediately and ask for forgiveness”? Too late probably. Let justice be done for the victims and their families.
By the way, Ron de Rooy (one of the elders pictured above) is a Dutch name. Is he from The Netherlands?
Sexual abuse is another subtle way of testify Jehovah god and “his/her organization” is the ONLY solution of human problems. Consider the following in their own publications….
*** g81 2/8 p. 19 Incest—The Hidden Crime ***
She was molested by her grandfather from the age of six until nine. She tried immorality, drugs and psychiatrists, but found in these no relief from her unhappiness.
Happily, there is help for such a person. However confused and “down” we may be, there is One who is “raising up the lowly one from the very dust,” and we can get to know him by means of the Bible. (Ps. 113:7)
In the early 80’s as a relatively new JW and a newly appointed Elder I sponsored some JW refugees from Cuba when Castro Kicked out many criminals and a lot of JW’s.I had little money in those days. I did it out of pure love. In my heart I wanted to help my brothers the best I could. I was only working part time at back then and I had 3 kids of my own at home but I had a large home and an extra area to put them in and felt Jehovah had blessed me and I wanted to share my blessings. I contacted the WT and told them I cloud help if anyone needed it. I lived on the West Coast in California and they were in Miami area with 1000’s of other refugees and were so HAPPY to get out. They sent me a family of 5 people. A Father and Mother and a 6 year old child along with the Fathers parents who were maybe in their late 60’s-early 70’s at the time. It was stressful having 5 extra people in the house and they did not speak English nor did we speak Spanish but we did the best we could and I was happy to help. Fast forward a few months and I had a 9 year old daughter and 2 younger boys. One night I got home late from work and it was a meeting night. I was rushing to the meeting as my wife and 2 boys had already gone. The Cubans had gone to their Spanish meeting except for the “grandfather”. Only me and my daughter and the “grandfather” were in my home. My daughter told me she was not feeling well and wanted to stay home that night. I said OK, I will see you in a few hours. The Cuban grandfather said he will watch her? When I left I had a bad feeling bc of the way he was acting and the nervousness he had about him like he was in a hurry to see me leave? After I left he approached my daughter in her bedroom and tried to entice her with some Yoghurt and tried to get into the bed with her and kiss her with his open MOUTH! She panicked and when he left the room for a split second to get food from the fridge she locked the bedroom door! Smart for her at a young age. The next morning she told my wife who immediately called me at work and as soon as my boss at work said I had an important phone call in my heart I knew what had happened bc of my gut feeling! I came home and made the entire family leave that day, He denied it to the Spanish Elders and lied in front of me and said he was only trying to get her some yoghurt? He had his hands on her body and was trying to kiss her mouth! I also found out he had a similar experience in CUBA so once a molester always a Molester! Bc of he 2 witness rule nothing could be done
to him. I am only glad nothing more serious happened that night.The policy was not to go to the POLICE bc of the bad rap for the Org.Man, AM I glad to be out of that dirt and the “DRAMA” that religion causes wherever it goes. My heart goes out to all of you who have experienced worse abuse and worse experiences for yourselves and you r families. Time will do some healing. Not all but some. I pray for all of you.
The fallout from this Australian Commission’s hearing is going to shake the Watchtower to it’s core. If there were any undecided victims waiting for the outcome before perusing legal action…they are not waiting anymore.
The GB will need to continue it’s mad dash to unload it’s Brooklyn HQ real estate, and their branch offices, to pay for these cases.
To all JW’s still in…prepare to belly up to the contribution box…and DIG DEEP!
I have to thank everyone here for working hard to keep us informed about the ARC hearings in child abuse. I favor them requiring all JW’s who work with children to under go a back round check. They may do something like this or take away their tax exempt status. In any case as stated the fall out should prove great! And I too bet many more abused victims will come after the WT corporation.
The moment when all these self appointed ursurpers who placed the will of a publishing company over that of the mercy Christ tought in scripture.
Elders quivering-
“What is that Jesus?…Wh wh why did we let the children suffer?, well you see the thing is we was just following orders. Did we not shun and tirade and lord ourselves over others in your name to keep them in line? Did we not expell your sheep when they were at their weakest, in your name and under prayer?
Did we not wash our hands of widows and orphans that couldn’t meet the quotas? Did we not receive our full reward in applause and praise for our actions on the platform on a weekly basis in your name?
Jesus reply-
I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’
spot on Robert ruthlee
Robert67 – Nice one!
There are several correlations between the movie “The Godfather” and the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. The Godfather is movie about the mafia in New York City. The Godfather is claiming he owns an olive oil business and that he is thoroughly involved in the business. But in reality, it is about killing people who are not with the Godfather. Or, the Godfather wanting to be the top mafia boss, the Don. The Godfather’s family hires a “family lawyer” to protect his mafia from going to jail. The Family lawyer, Tom Hagen, is used when things go wrong and the police are trying to bring to justice the mafia. Later in The Godfather, the police chief has partnered with the Godfather and tries to smooth things over.
One similarity between the film and the Watchtower is their forcing their ideology down your throats and having conditions on their members. The Watchtower uses religion as business to cover the Watchtower’s illegal behavior. When the religion has been unmasked by the authorities and the media for having Child Sexual Abuse, the religion enacts the Bethel family’s lawyers. The Bethel family lawyers try to smooth talk the judicial system into thinking that they are doing their religion and the religion requires the cutting off of wicked people (called disfellowshipping). If the media tries to paint the Watchtower in a bad light. Guess what happens? The Bethel family’s lawyers are at their best trying to smooth over and cover up Watchtower’s illegal mistakes with laws that protect them. One of the Bethel Mafia bosses wishes the Child Sexual Abuse matter with the Watchtower would just “die”. In addition, the boss tries to discredit a journalist in Portugal for not getting two sides of the story. Who knew the Mafia boss was a journalism teacher. However, the journalist stuck to her story and went to the Bethel in Portugal for their side of the story. Unfortunately, the Mafia boss flew the coop with a statement and could not furnish his side of the story.
Another similarity, is how the Watchtower treats their members who think differently from them. Watchtower uses threats to get their members in line. Just like the mafia. You will be swimming with the fishes. You will die at Armageddon if you do not follow what we say.
The Watchtower’s family lawyer(s) have gone all the way to the United States Supreme Court and have smooth talked the Supreme Court justices to see that their way (“religion”) is wholesome for the whole family and they should not have to register with the authorities when recruiting new members in the mafia. I mean the Jehovah’s Witnesses. The buttering up of the authorities is how both the mafia and The Watchtower do things.
It is also amazing how both the movie and the Watchtower are based in New York City. Why do bad things happen in this city?
In order to get protection from the mafia or the Watchtower you need to “donate” to them. In the Godfather, people donate their services and fine gifts to the Godfather. Watchtower is asking for the finer things in life. Stocks and Bonds, CD’s, Savings accounts, etc.
I could go on and on with the similarities. However, these are just a few.
Your comparison of Organized Religion, especially this one, to the Mafia, is right on!
P.S.
Why New York City? IMHO, probably because it is one of the World Hubs of money-grubbing Parasites and fame-craving Narcissists.
Or….Gotham city….signed the dark knight
I will try to share a story, without giving away to much info, but to illustrate that the problems that we have are not just old cases. A few years ago a man moved to our area, he had recently been removed from an appointed position. The letter of introduction was very vague, in some respects inferring he was the victim of slanderous accusations, ,but when pressed for more info…sure enough he was a bonfide molester. …So, parameters were set, which He didn’t appreciate, so he bounced from hall to hall looking for a better reception. Anyway a while back he showed up for service at a combined meeting for service and was assigned to work with sisters from another hall, two of which were teenagers. this was arranged by a bro. from his current congregation. …well some heard about this and quickly called the COBE of his cong. It was reported that the branch had removed his restrictions? ??? This guy was guilty as Sin..the only explanation one can think of is that the victim was finally going to the police and the org. wanted to give impression that they knew nothing.
In my opinion, to really expose the greediness and corruption of this religion, the government should wipe out the tax free status, impose sanctions or court fines for covered up child abuse and enact legislation which requires this corporation to publish its financial statements.
I think that we would finally see the true colors of this religion. Hit them in the pocket book where it really really hurts.
Agreed
That would be the time when they SCREAM “the great tribulation is here! Satans system is trying to stamp out the good news!”
From there the gb would run and hide. I have absolutely no doubt about that. Especially after Losch’ cowardly refusal to appear before the superior court in California. When you make no qualms about losing millions in donated funds there’s nothing you won’t do to save your own skin.
The org would then crumble with the circuit overseers taking the lead of smaller splinter groups. All this while receiving instructions from the gb in their hidden location. Think it can’t happen? Those arrangements are already in place. What do you think the C.O.s are learning in the schools that they attend. It was a circuit overseer who told me this when I was a swirly eyed devotee being trained for the circuit work.
Covert Fade, thank you so much for that further insight into Watchtower’s wicked flawed system of dealing with child abuse. It is so interesting when these dealings are put under the microscope by the legal profession.
I particularly liked your last point about ‘A Plea To The Elders’. Surely, any elder who is still calling himself that cannot read this and stay with the cult. May the true God and Jesus help them leave however means they can.
Jehovah’s Witnesses could get $1 billion for NYC properties
Associated Press By KAREN MATTHEWS
55 minutes ago
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NEW YORK (AP) — The Jehovah’s Witnesses, the door-knocking religious group that’s been based in Brooklyn for a century, is selling its headquarters and other properties for an expected price tag of $1 billion or more.
The Witnesses’ move to a town about an hour north of New York City will likely mean the end of the complex’s most well-known feature, the neon “Watchtower” sign advertising the church’s flagship publication. But it will free up hundreds of thousands of square feet for businesses and apartments in a now-trendy neighborhood at the foot of the Brooklyn Bridge.
“It’s going to be incredibly transformative,” said Alexandria Sica, executive director of the DUMBO Improvement District, a business group.
Jehovah’s Witnesses spokesman Richard Devine said the move will allow the organization to operate more efficiently. The church had owned 36 separate Brooklyn properties before it began selling them off in preparation for the move upstate to Warwick. The printing plant where the Witnesses produce Bibles and religious tracts moved from Brooklyn to the town of Wallkill in 2004.
“As we’ve grown as an organization we’ve had to buy scattered properties wherever we could find them,” Devine said. “With a big, scattered campus like that it’s challenging to administer and to maintain.”
The Witnesses bought their 733,000-square-foot headquarters from Squibb Pharmaceuticals for $3 million in 1969. It was placed on the market this month along with a nearby apartment building and a 135,000-square-foot lot. Despite the prominent “Watchtower” sign, the building has no historical designations that would place restrictions on the buyer.
The church has not announced an asking price but Tucker Reed, president of the Downtown Brooklyn Partnership, called $1 billion “a conservative estimate” for the Witnesses’ real estate portfolio.
A partnership including Donald Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner purchased a nearby 1.4 million-square-foot complex from the Witnesses in 2013 for $375 million and is developing it as a tech hub, while smaller buildings have sold for varying amounts.
In upstate New York, the Witnesses have purchased hotels and other properties for volunteers building the church’s new headquarters.
The Witnesses have more than 8 million active members worldwide and about 11 million more who attend some services, according to church officials.
Witnesses are required to spread their message door to door and are not allowed to vote, receive blood transfusions or serve in the military.
The organization has been in Brooklyn since 1908 but seems culturally distinct from its gritty-meets-yuppie surroundings.
Church members lead English- and Spanish-language tours of the headquarters, decorated with pastel-toned Bible paintings.
Devine said 100,000 people a year visit the Brooklyn headquarters but the Warwick facility an hour north of the city will get more visitors when it opens in 2017.
“To be honest with you,” he said, “many people find New York City intimidating.”
Sica said she is looking forward to the Witnesses’ move in part because the church’s properties seem off-limits to non-members, with fenced-in parking lots and no street-level retail. “It’s closed off,” she said. “You get that sense of ‘This place is not for the public.'”
But both Sica and Reed said that before they leave the Witnesses should follow through on a promise to redevelop a neighborhood park, which they agreed to do in exchange for a zoning change.
Devine said the Witnesses will fulfill the commitment to build the park “either through our efforts or through the efforts of the new owner. We won’t walk away from it.”
I didn’t realize how wealthy the org is.
I just finish reading this article and i wish i could vomit at faces of the government body, at elders and any officer of the watchtower. this organization is so corrupt and disgusting. How these people stand on the platforms and preaching ethics?
I think many ideas and what many of you have been saying is true. The JW religion actually is a for profit organization. I remember the year they stopped serving food at a convention. I was at my convention at the Cow Palace in San Francisco. It was sad to see the homeless line up for food. They lined up because they had been given food and drink every year before. The brothers had to explain we no longer served free food. The JW organization acts like a for profit business.
The long asked question – What are they going to do with all the money from the sale of Brooklyn?
In Stephen Lett’s broadcast he was saying, ‘There is more going out than there is coming in.’ Yes, come on brothers, ‘lets’ empty your pockets!
Do they not know?
Greedy persons will not inherit God’s Kingdom!
Well, isn’t that just Jim-Dandy? Now that the Trump Family is involved, maybe they can work with WT to come up with a creative solution to their financial problems. How about a Watchtower Casino? I’m sure the GB could conveniently come up with “New Light” to justify it, like they did with the “Overlapping” thing. LOL Call it a form of “theocratic warfare”, or even “theocratic gambling”. The “Kingdom Hotel & Casino”. I wouldn’t put it past them. Like I said, money-grubbing parasites.
I haven’t read through all of watchtowers rebuttal to the royal commission yet but there is something that I would like to bring to the attention of any and all elders who may be reading these comments.Its this :
9.67 Suggested finding F14 should be amended to : The recommendation of the elders to the branch office that Bill Neill be reappointed as an elder ‘once this has died down’ and their expressed concern ‘that there may be worldly people who also know’ were inappropriate and did not reflect the policy and practice of Jehovahs Witnesses.
This is part of watchtowers rebuttal. Notice that they made no excuses or defense for the brothers who made this statement. All of these years they had no problem with it now all of a sudden its a problem? It was inappropriate?
I want you to take a good hard look at that statement. Those brothers were torn to shreds trying to DEFEND the precious org. Did the org try to shield them for this seemingly harmless statement? Nope and nope. So why should YOU take a bullet for THEM?