It was in the summer 2012 that Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world were first introduced to Caleb and Sophia, the Governing Body’s new animated poster kids.
Their first cartoon adventures, which were distributed in DVDs at conventions and on the organization’s JW.org website, caused outrage even among many non-JWs. Watchtower’s blatant attempts to indoctrinate children using fear and paranoia created a wave of dismay that will have gone largely unnoticed by most ordinary JWs.
Since they first burst on to our screens, Caleb and Sophia have been taught by their troubled parents that Jehovah is pedantic enough to hate certain kinds of plastic action figures, that he wants kids to give their ice cream money to Watchtower, and that failing to pay sufficient attention at kingdom hall meetings can carry the death penalty.
But Watchtower apparently isn’t done with stripping JW kids of all innocence and individuality. Now the Governing Body wants them to challenge any classmates with gay or lesbian parents, and remind them that if mommy and mommy (or daddy and daddy) don’t change their ways they will lose their tickets to paradise.
It’s hard to know where to start in verbalizing one’s revulsion at the proud ignorance and homophobia on open display in this CGI monstrosity, but I will do my best.
Firstly, Sophia’s bewilderingly-orange mother manipulates her daughter with a metaphor that entirely misrepresents both homosexuality and Watchtower’s views regarding it. Sophia is asked to picture a man traveling with a bag, the contents of which trigger the airport security systems because he is carrying a prohibited item.
Homosexuality is explained as being the forbidden item the man must surrender before being allowed to travel on to his desired destination: paradise earth.
Anybody remotely in tune with reality understands that homosexuality is not a “choice,” as so often portrayed by Christian fundamentalists. Straight people are born straight, and gay people are born gay. Just as it would be outrageous to ask a straight person to start being gay, it is impossible to expect a gay person to live a lie and stop being who they are. And yet this is what fanatics like Watchtower demand of them.
Secondly, the metaphor implies that if the traveler chooses against surrendering the forbidden item, the worst that will happen is that his ticket will be cancelled and he will be forced to browse the duty free before hailing a cab and making his way back to the hotel. But that is not how it works according to Jehovah’s Witness teachings.
If the metaphor were accurately and fully followed through, we would see the traveller being bundled away by security and thrown into a 1940s cattle cart, along with all others deemed undesirable by the Governing Body, before being dispatched to the great extermination camp of Armageddon.
This is not a case of “follow us, or don’t fly,” this is a case of “follow us, or die.”
But this doomsday aspect of Jehovah’s Witness theology is so repugnant to most ordinary people that Watchtower must do its best to obfuscate it wherever possible.
Even most JWs you may encounter on the street, if pressed on the matter, will deny that literally billions of people, including children, are in line for mass slaughter if their hopes and expectations come to fruition. Their continued state of subservience to their religion depends on them not thinking things through to their fullest, most grisly conclusion.
All that deception and mischaracterization aside, arguably the most repugnant and disturbing aspect of this vile cartoon is that it sets out to recruit JW children to impose the organization’s homophobic bigotry on any classmates who happen to have gay or lesbian parents.
When I was growing up as a JW I recall being indoctrinated into believing that homosexuality was to be condemned. But I don’t remember once being told to actively seek out homosexuals, or children of homosexuals, to badger them with my beliefs. All that, apparently, has now changed. Watchtower has thrown its hat in with all the other sickly Christian evangelicals whose crusade is to stamp out homosexuality wherever it surfaces.
If you want to see what the end game is of preaching hate in this way, you need only watch the documentary “God Loves Uganda,” which is currently running on Netflix. It shows how U.S. evangelicals have taken a loathsome message that has zero credibility in their homeland, and cynically flooded Uganda with it – a country whose populace have limited access to education and are therefore easy pickings for those who spew ignorance and bigotry.
And before I am accused of trying to persuade people towards atheism by making this film recommendation, I should point out that two heroes of the film are Reverend Kaoma and Bishop Senyonjo. By the end of the film, I wanted to reach into my screen and hug them both.
Despite being Christians they could plainly see the real danger posed by evangelical homophobic fanaticism, and were doing their best in the face of unspeakable brutality to urge love, respect and tolerance.
Now it seems Watchtower, having already embraced televangelism, are also now quite happy to count themselves among the small-minded homophobic hate-mongers who stain our society. And rather than lead the hateful charge themselves, the likes of Tony Morris and his Governing Body cronies are content to hide behind a newly-formed army of school-age foot-soldiers who will take the heat for them.
Further reading…
- Metro article
- Independent article
- Inquisitr article
- The Friendly Atheist article
- Rawstory article
- Complex article
- Wetpaint article
- Pink News article
- Wonkette article
- Gaystarnews article
- SDGLN.com article
- Same Same article
- Newnownext article
- The Daily Dot article
- The Stranger article
- The Gaily Grind article
- Dangerous Minds article
- TheNewCivilRightsMovement.com article
- Progressive Secular Humanist article
- JoeMyGod.com article
- Watchtower’s New “Toy Story” – What Parents Need to Know
- Sparlock a year later: Non-JWs in uproar on YouTube
- Cough up kids! Watchtower needs your ice cream money
- “Pay attention or die” – A disturbing glimpse of JW child indoctrination at work
Related video:
I would actually be quite happy in marrying a gay guy because the ones I know are loving and kind. My ex was sexually abusive, mentally abusive and narcissistic. I would love the companionship of someone who didn’t see me as just something to screw.
I have G and L family members and they are lovely. I mentioned them a few times when I was ‘in’ and actually had jw’s say ‘oh I am so sorry, that must be awful for you….’
Now mt granddaughter, she’s 7, will be exposed to this. I have already passed the video on to my son and told him to pass it to his lawyer (who was married to a jw). Hopefully it can be used when they go to court, in some way.
“Methinks they do protest too much”. Recent verbal
attacks on homosexuals ( Tight pants designers and
wearers), And now this thoughtless and humanity
hating video, directed at young undeveloped minds.
It makes one wonder if those who authorised this trashy
product. are not in the closet themselves.
As Lloyd has shown in his assessment of the video.
Citing the Bible as the absolute authority on lifestyle
leads into a minefield of contradictions.
Twmack
Wouldn’t surprise me if you are correct. I mean think about how hard they slam masturbation and I know based on the reports of numerous bethelites that it is very prevalent at the headquarters. I have also heard that they outlawed wrestling and play fighting at bethel because some of young men were becoming aroused by it.
WS
“Don’t get involved with wrestling in your underwear brothers. One minute your wrestling on the floor the all of a sudden you’re a homo”. – George Couch deceased governing body member.
When I was a dub a bethelite in my hall told me about that one. It was in their Monday night lecture. My brother who’s also a bethelite confirmed that story for me.
Yes, that is very true! I know the two Bethelites that were disfellowshipped for homosexuality after they were wrestling and it led to sex. Obviously it was the ‘wrestling in underwear’ that was the ‘problem’. But that’s what the small-minded morons thought.
WS – it’s this simple causal-reasoning that contributed to my awakening, plus having analytical thinking somewhere north of average. It reflects a lack of wanting to understand something and participants easily dismissed with labels as aberrant, evil and disgusting.
So, to think individuals are born homosexual or have genetic disposition, the concept of the Kinsey Scale, Gender Dysphoria, or Bisexuality exists, even as phases of sexual development and maturity–natural–is not up for debate in the Watchtower world (outside the Watchtower world this debate over homosexuality causes has been ranging since the 1950’s). It doesn’t exist, and if it is in the world it is considered evil.
It’s as if any “joy” and “entertainment” from sex and genitals is a “deadly sin” (lust) and “sex organs” (Watchtower speak) are procreative instruments–tools.
The Watchtower’s literature on sex turns it into a clinical experiment in procreation; gender into a boot camp on dominance and submission, and childhood into a nightmare of fear and striving to please You-know-who, who may or may not ever be totally pleased, so work harder and harder.
Conveniently they do adopt the psychology of the past which described homosexuality as mental illness yet downplaying any benefit of modern psychology and psychiatry in treatment of severe mental illness and anxiety.
My husband and I watched the above takedown of this horrible video without knowing our 7 y/o daughter was paying attention. We paused after it was over and asked her what she thought. She replied, “I wish I had two moms!” then, looking at my husband, “can I have two dads too?” We looked at each-other and cracked up! Homophobia is learned, it’s not something children do naturally.
Until just a few weeks ago, we mindlessly made our kids watch these videos. Thankfully, it now appears we suck at child indoctrination. I was so afraid for so long that my children wouldn’t decide to be JWs. The most wonderful part of waking up for me has been the peace of knowing I’ll never have to choose between them and Watchtower. I was always pretty sure Watchtower would lose that fight, which made me feel inadequate and sinful. Imagine that! I felt the fact that I wouldn’t be able to shun my children meant I could never please God! Such a messed-up world view.
If we hadn’t made our minds up before now, this video would have been the last straw anyway. Hopefully, there are many other Witnesses that feel the same way. I can’t wait until my husband finds a job with a non-JW company, so we can cut ties completely!
That was an amazing comment. Thanks for sharing! :)
Thank you! I’ve spent the last 10 days here and on jwfacts. I feel like I’ve dived into ice water!
I watched the video you made for your lovely little girl twice with my husband and youngest (she insisted on an encore). It’s beautiful, and how we feel about our children.
How anybody could look at a little girl’s drawing of her parents hand-in-hand in a sunny meadow and see something wrong (as Sophia apparently did) has always been beyond me! What is the end-goal? Breaking up a happy family simply because the parents share a biological sex? No, that is the exact opposite of loving.
I can totally relate to how bracing it is to first start foraging online for decent info. I’m also glad you liked my video for Jessica. Well done for finding freedom, and immediately passing it on to your kids. It’s the best gift you can give them! :)
I relate to that amazing feeling that you have when you start on the path of freeing your mind…I devoured everything especially this site and jwfacts…then I watched all of the jw part of the Australian Royal Commission and I have never looked back… kind people on this site encouraged me to take it steady and fade because my husband and children are still deeply ‘in’ and the invaluable advice off Lloyd to have a strategy!… so important it is my mantra…I have a part time job now and am studying for a degree..Im still fading I havn’t reported for 6 months and fortunately though my husband is rver hopeful I will go back he doesnt pressure me…I will always be grateful to this site and Lloyd..at some points I was visiting it 4 to 5 times a day… it kept me sane!… we are all with you
Thank you! Everyone here is so kind and supportive! Needless to say, this community is nothing like the hateful, bitter apostates they talk about.
I’m glad I’m not the only one obsessed with factual information at first! It feels like I have to counter every single bit of misinformation, no matter how small.
I loved your comment.
I wish you were my sister-in-law. I really miss my niece and nephews.
I’m so sorry for the loss of your family! It’s agonizing having to choose between ones true self and family. Nobody should be forced into such a choice.
I wanted to add: I wish I was your sister-in-law too! My family will be shunning us, I’m sure, as soon as they know. It’s an evil policy!
I sincerely wish my husband would see the madness. I envy you…
Apparently my husband awoke a few years ago, and was hanging on because he didn’t want to “rock the boat.” I had no idea at the time, but I can see now how he was subtly trying to plant doubts.
The thing that finally got to me wasn’t “apostate” at all (or I would never have looked at it), but was an article about “shame-based systems.” It was a shocking read for me, because it describes almost perfectly what life as a JW is actually like! I thought it was describing problems with other religions, so I was okay with reading it.
The article is here: http://www.truthandgracecounseling.com/uploads/WHAT_IS_A_SHAME-BASED_SYSTEM.doc
It’s funny, but I guess I was kind of “won without a word.” I sincerely hope your husband has a similar epiphany soon!
Wonderful comment Kaytee.
Like your husband I had doubts most of my life but couldn’t bring myself to ‘rock the boat’ as you say. However it finally took a moral issue to do it!
Someone I cared about greatly did something that would get them dis-fellowshiped because of a bad situation they had found themselves in. I trawled through the literature looking for loop holes, but there weren’t any.
Basically the wtbts’s stance was simple, if I was an Israelite I would be expected to take this person outside the camp and stone them to death !!!
Well that was something I could not do!! I realized that I would rather take on Jehovah with bare fists than do that to someone I cared about.
So I had come to the conclusion that I had MUCH higher moral standards than ‘Jehovah’. With that realization it was easy to walk away from such evil nonsense!!
Bible approved lifestyle.– Girls, if there’s no other
man around to get you in the family way “Get your
father to do the job,
It’s OK if he’s a righteous man like Lot. A man who
who was sick of the depraved things going off in
Sodom and Gomorrah. 2 Pet, 2:7.
The Watchtower will never be ashamed… They still have a pen to write about the secrets of the Kingdom…
*** g81 11/8 p. 21 Is the Bible a White Man’s Book? ***
European nations, although claiming to be Christian, have quarreled and fought right through their turbulent history, this strife reaching a climax in this century in World Wars I and II, and now are making frantic preparations for World War III. And instead of proclaiming God’s kingdom, they look to a man-made political organization, the United Nations, as man’s only hope.
@haki – ah, yes, the 80’s when they (and the other fundamentalists) were striving to reach out to the minority neighborhoods since the “white men (& women)” weren’t buying (ie: sending donations) this κραπ any more. Jim Baker & wife, that whole Heritage USA thingy, then Tilton & Marte, Roberts Sr (give me money or I will die), etc–go figure..
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/televangelist-tilton-wife-to-separate/article_e91dcce0-ed42-50d5-baa4-875cf8e6bb22.html
I have an infant and even though I am still trapped in the org, I resolved to never show her this crap while I was pregnant. I’m hoping this video wakes up others, including my husband. Ridiculous garbage!
Whatever happened to the words of Christ, “He who is sinless cast the first stone.” Oh yeah, I forgot! They conveniently removed that from there newest ‘revision’ of the bible, because it hits this kind of propaganda right between the eyes.
As far a Sophia ‘witnessing’ to the child with two moms, I hope that Sophia’s mom teaches her how to duck a punch along with it. I see one kid who loves her family very much being very defensive about such a witness. Yep! Sophia might well learn what ‘persecution’ is all about when trying to push your views on someone else.
Exactly – the freedom of speech in most lands that allows you to ‘preach’ from door to door, hold public conventions and gatherings also allows people of different sexual orientations the same freedom of speech, belief and actions. When you push your beliefs on other people – especially you own and other people’s children (who have no idea of what they are signing up to) expect a very strong push back.
Seems to me they are simply following what the bible says about homosexuality so your problem is more with the scriptures than JWs in this case.
A question for you Plopboy; If medical science can prove that people are born with a propensity of being “gay” (a gay gene if you will) why should God punish them with destruction if they have no choice in the matter. Can a leopard change his spots or could he naturally eat grass like a bull?
I say, let a perfect God and the “Son of Man” judge people without our imperfect interpretation and renderings of the Hebrew Scriptures. Now that a loving God has removed the obligation of the Mosaic Law from Christians we can approach him with the ransom. God loves sinners (not their sinning) otherwise the sending of his Son would be for naught.
I think we can all agree that we live where the strict interpretation of the Torah, or even the Islamic Sir-ea Law, is not followed because there would be few individuals that could stand up to its strict standards.
As far as I’m concerned J.W.’s who are allowing shenanigans concerning their pedophile protection policy’s to continue (with their ridiculous two witness rule) poses more danger to not only those in the Kingdom Hall but places the entire community at risk. Why? Because the elders will not report the offender to local authorities. In my opinion, this poses more of a risk to society than what sexual acts consenting adults care to perform in the privacy of their homes.
A better, more instructional cartoon would have been to show the children telling their parents of “improper touching” while in field service by an elder. Then showing the parents contacting the Local Authorities after nothing is done by the congregational body of elders. (Let’s put this matter in Jehovah’s hands). This would be more believable than the “two mommies” scenario in my book. Yeah, fat chance that ever happens. :)
Watchtower: “Consensual gay sex is WRONG! Now come over here and help me not report all these pedophiles.”
I’m curious where the Bible says the stuff shown in this video.
@Scott. Shame on you!!! I agree that you should have a right to an opinion, but to resort to derogatory name calling is putting you right in line with the fundamentalists and WTS that have no room in this world for someone that differs from them. On the other hand, Pedophilia is not two consenting adults but an invasion on an innocent child with sex. Incest? Well, that depends if it is rape or not to truly be a crime. (In any case, it would highly risk producing unhealthy humans!) These behaviors cannot compare to two consenting and mutually agreeable humans in a relationship. Others should butt out of their lives! Maybe this world NEEDS a challenge to recognize what personal freedom and personal boundaries are all about.
Scott, were you raised as a JW? Just wondering.. Before I woke up I used to think the same way.
In the 1930’s and 40’s the Nazis used the same child indoctrination techniques to dehumanize their imagined opponents, the Jews in particular. The Nazis printed story books and made cartoons for their little ones to poison their minds and make it OK to kill these demonized ones. We all know what this type of child indoctrination leads to.
The unfortunate result of this will be that JW kids will become the ones that will be persecuted for this stance taken by the Governing Body. Expect to see Young ones trotted out at future conventions and assemblies to tell how heroically they took a beating at school while taking a stand for the CEO’s of a Billion Dollar Publishing Corporation.
This, even more than their previous child-targeted videos, shows how they are usurping the parents’ rights to exercise their best judgment as to what, when and how to teach their children. The assumption that these videos are safe for children to watch on their own could leave parents with nasty surprises in the form of calls from schools, angry parents and even lawyers.
This comment will not go over well with this community Mr. Scott. I know what you are trying to express, I feel the same way. But this community is focused on one thing, and that is to expose JW as a hopelessly failing- evil cult. (This community takes advantage of “freedom of speech” but doesn’t realize that the USA government along with their elite buddies have been inching closer and closer to their plans of removing “free speech” and removing most of the constitution in order to bring in a “New World Order”. Hellooooo…9/11 was totally an inside job. This community still watches mainstream news outlets and believes that one day mankind will make beautiful changes…LOL Why the extensive parentheses you might ask…because knowing the facts about a shadow government will allow one question and investigate their current stance even deeper.) I have recently decided to take up studying with JWs again in spite of all I read on here. Let me tell you, I hate their policies regarding the handling of abuse cases. There is something dead wrong about that. But, I already knew this and still have a passion for studying the bible with them specifically. Here’s why. (The following are mainly for those who still believe on God) As I mentioned before, most of my spare time from the ages of 19 until now (37), have been studying religion. It has always intrigued me. It always made sense to me that “IF” there was a God, and “IF” there was an inspired book to lead people in a direction HE desired, and “IF” there was a “way”, and IF there all this that we see since man has fucked up in the Garden of Eden is just an alternate world that should have never taken place to begin with…and IF these are the “last days” (hell yea they are, I don’t need religion to tell me that)…”IF” all these are to be taken seriously…then (if you minus the top things that bother you about Watchtower/JWs), I come to the conclusion that this is THE ORGANIZATION that tried it’s best in these “days” (20&21st century) to round up as many people as possibly by way of a big ass preaching & teaching (door to door) campaign that this world will never see again. That one thing alone made me seek them out again. JW is an Org that is full of problems, full of sinful leaders, prideful and clueless sheeple, among other things that bring pain to thousands within it’s walls. But, after studying with other religions (including independent folks that just like to read in to the scriptures), I know there is corruption everywhere. But i believe God looks down and sees everything! He knows what is flawed. I’ll bet Moses was doing all kinds of things exactly like the JWs Governing Body. I’ll bet Korah in the bible had even more garbage to lay out there against Moses than we read in the Bible. But, still Moses was the one. The GB is one hell of a sinful group. But I believe the work of JWs is proof enough that they are special. Just simply teaching the “good news” in the unprecedented scale that we’ve scene is good enough. Everything that’s wrong with the ORG…God will deal with it. But according to what I read…this group had one job. One main job. They have done it. Now getting back to the government and the Gay movement…It’s all by design. Do you know what’s in your tap water? Food? Do you know what planes are leaving in the sky for us to breath? Listen to Alex Jones on infowars.com You’ll understand. So anyway, I am at work typing away…and now im rushing my thoughts but- well the bible is clear on the subject of homosexuality. That’s not to say we must treat them unkindly though.
*correction in my horrible grammar* It always made sense to me that “IF” there was a God, and “IF” there was an inspired book to lead people in a direction HE desired, and “IF” there was a “way”, and IF all this that we see since the beginning of time when man fucked up in the Garden of Eden is just an alternate world that should never have even taken place to begin with…and IF these are the “last days” (hell yea they are, I don’t need religion to tell me that)…
So in your conspiracy, how do you know if the Watchtower wasn’t set up by these ‘shadow men’ as a way to draw people in & create a sheeplike attitude that would be easy to manoeuvre into the “new world order”. Is it coincidental that the Watchtower uses the same symbolic language that the Freemasons did?
Like the following:
“Jehovah”
“The Watchtower”
“Millenium Dawn”
“The Golden Age”
“New World”
“New System”
Elders
Anointed
Admonish
Brotherhood
And how do you know that Satan hasn’t taken over the Watchtower (seven headed beast and seven GB members) and is laughing his head off at the thought of taking another eight million unsuspecting souls on judgment day? Everything is a conspiracy if that’s the way you want it. I can recommend a good Therapist if you like. Can be reached on 0800 iamnuts.
PeterB;
So glad to read your comments. My, my… so many “if’s and’s and but’s”. I have a question for you my friend, which also happens to be the same question I asked my Elders after 55 years of association before fading, namely; if Jehovah is infallible (the epitome of perfection), and the Holy Spirit emanating from Jehovah is also perfect, then it stands to reason that although written by imperfect men his word is also perfect. Yes?
However, his so called “spirit directed organization” (Watchtower) has been wrong so many times it staggers the imagination. Can the Holy Spirit be wrong? Not according to the Inspired Word! So if the Watchtower has it and we all agree the Holy Spirit emanates from God, I suggest to you that not only do they not have it, they have never had it.
For example; the three Cadillac driving, three home owing, drunken sot President of the Society, J.F Rutherford’s “Million’s now living will never die” speeches. This nonsense of his was pronounced back in the late 1920’s early 1930’s. Where are those millions now? Dead as a door nail.
Also his “Advertise, Advertise, Advertise the King and his Kingdom” oh, and while your cold calling the public from door to door, be sure to sell my books. He never went door to door once but had no problem sending others out dispensing his nonsense. And what Pulitzer prize, N.Y. Times best sellers they were to. Such winning titles such as: “Children”, “Enemies”, etc. You won’t find many of these ‘one word wonders’ around anymore.
Also, and I personally lived through this one, namely the mantra “Door to Door in ’74 to be alive in ’75”. If they had been telling the “Truth” we would be 41 years into the New System by this October. Well come to find out (New Light) we are not in the LAST DAYS but “the beginnings of the pangs of distress”.
Also with the July 15, 2013 Watchtower, C.T. Russell and followers have been proven not to be Gods instrument for dispensing spiritual food.
Don’t get me started on the fact that Jehovah’s Witnesses now have a “Rapture” as shown in the same Watchtower (see the chart).
This “New Light” can be interpreted to show that Armageddon is a long distance away, more so than anyone now living will see. In other words, the “Great Crowd” who are to survive are not even born yet! That assumes that Armageddon is not symbolic of something else in a book written in signs and symbols.
Because of their outing, by the Guardian newspaper, in reference to their membership as a NGO (Non Governmental Organization) in the United Nations, which they were members of for 10 years, they now suffer the extreme consequences of Jehovah’s displeasure.
This is because they (the Watchtower) themselves identified the Scarlet Colored Beast in 1942-43 by then President N.H. Knorr. This idea was carried over in the Society’s 1963 book “Babylon the Great has fallen; God’s Kingdom Rules”. How could God’s spirit directed organization involve themselves with Satan’s organization, you might ask? AS WELL YOU SHOULD!
I challenge you to pose these questions to your body of elders and see what happens to you. Especially since you are now corresponding on an “apostate site.”
As a closing thought, as spoken on the site exjw critical thinker on youtube, “better to have “questions” you cannot answer than “answers” you cannot question”. :)
Gods people throughout the bible were never perfect like god is. Nowhere in the bible does it say that in the last days God would have a perfect Org. Nowhere!
PeterB: Nowhere does the Bible say that he would have an earthly Organization either or “a faithful and discrete slave that everyone will be accountable to” or one mention of a “Paradise Earth” either! Type that on your Watchtower CD. Rom Library, just as I have, and see how many times that expression comes up in the Sacred Scriptures. (Spoiler Alert!) Not ONCE. Surprised?
Both my parents, all of my aunts and uncles followed this cult since the 1950’s only to die discouraged, disappointed, unfulfilled, and disillusioned. But I’ll bet one thing “Paradise Earth” and “Armageddon” are pipe dreams. And what is at the end of a pipe? A whole lot of nothing (maybe excrement).
Again, do your research and see for yourself or you will waste many opportunities for personal fulfillment working for
a “doomsday cult” like I did for over 55 years. The final decision where to place your trust, my friend, is yours but my “ask your elders challenge still stands, if you’re up to it”.
Good Luck and keep searching. The real Truth is out there or not? :)
A Caution with Hood Intentions-
As you are around meetings more you are bound to hear the phrases ‘a little leaven spoils the whole loaf..’ and. ‘ If an apple had one drop if poison (or a cup of water had a drop) , would you drink it?’
Over and over and over , JWS are taught to automatically reject other religions as false due to lack of perfection. Satanic.
Therefore Members are drilled to agree with inevitable conclusion:
If the Borg is teaching the truth, if I have found true worship..then..
The Borg is not satanic.
The Borg is not false.
Therefore, lucky members, the Borg is perfect.
No, not the men…But their printed words, their policies, interpretations, their discipline, hierarchy, judgements, etc…perfect.
You must be in agreement with absolutely everything the GB and corporation does, says, prints, thinks..
Ridiculing and judging other faiths, ministers, and members privately, in comments and (amazingly enough) from the platform is common and accepted.
Very recent experience – straight from the platform. Within the last 6 mo. Brother Elder ridiculed a local church because they had an ad in the paper for a part time secretary. How shameful that they had to pay someone and not have a volunteer. Obviously, we ALL KNOW that this is an immediate sign of false worship, right?? The many faces of judgement…
As far as overlooking or ‘waiting on Jehovah’ to deal with the pedophile pestilence, the blackmail of shunning, the homophobia, the UN scandal, the Malawi/Mexico unjustice, the Idol worship of GB and JW.org, and the many other Secrets…you should remember that a good JW is taught that any connection to a sinner or sinful group is equally as guilty. And that silent observation and/or agreement is indeed a sin and unacceptable.
I understand that one wants to look for the good and let the bad settle, but as we’ve heard a 1000 times ‘Get out of her!!’
They definitely were not perfect people, agreed. It’s not the Bible that is demanding perfection. It’s the Borg, the JB, the WT that elevates the leaders, the policies. I’ve left not to leave God or the Bible but to leave this sad center of dubious character…
@PeterB,
I read your post and said to myself, “Uhhhh, he’s kidding! Right?” I respect your right to an opinion, and you should have a right to express it. You seem like a good person with good intentions. I appreciate that you care for our well being by sharing your post. However, after reading it, I think you need to step back a bit and reflect on what you have said. I would highly recommend watching Dr. Michael Shermer’s, “Baloney Detection Kit” video on You-Tube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJmRbSX8Rqo.
As far as shadow governments and airplanes spraying mind-control gas, see a therapist and stop listening to people stirring up such nonsense. You want freedom taken away by a shadowy organization, then just follow the Watchtower! They’ll make sure you claim crazy stuff.
Just relax man, enjoy life, enjoy freedom, and don’t get jazzed up so much from less credible agendas.
The video is going viral in Netherlands nationsl media. The branch office gave an official reaction that the video is for JW children and interested and not for the general public. It’s not intended for offending people. If it does on large scale it could be concidered to take it offline. It is out freedom of speech was his final conclusion.
People reacted they will report the video to the local police.
So, bad imago media for jw.
Gorby
Wow, they actually used the “it’s not for you, it’s for our children only” line?
Yeah, THAT doesn’t sound sketchy at ALL! :D :D Sounds like perfectly reasonable non-cult behaviour. Heh heh. Oh well, I guess that’s what happens when your PR team didn’t get a higher education…
Can you share a link? I’d love to see it
well do they not encourage people to get on their website and see those cartoons?
oddly it is not on the German website..
but it is on their officilal english language site which they advertise for in public.
@Covert Fade – That’s what the Bethelites at HQ–er, district overseers–dang it!!–Gov Body members told Netherlands to say.
However, “is for JW children and interested and not for the general public” — so, Sophia should just watch the video and not actually try to convince her schoolmate that her parents are evil and will be “overcooked weiners” after Armageddon?
Did I get that TMorris quote right? So, I guess Jehovah is back to using hell fire? By cracky those old rural Baptists were right, “no more water, but by the fire this time”..
@Covert fade, here are some links of the national media in the Netherlands covering the news about the jw.org video:
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/editienl/jehovas-maken-kinderfilm-homos-niet-welkom-het-paradijs
http://www.trouw.nl/tr/nl/4492/Nederland/article/detail/4294749/2016/05/04/COC-boos-op-Jehova-s-om-kinderfilmpje.dhtml
http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/kritiek-op-jehovah-s-getuigen-om-anti-homo-kinderfimpje~a4294809/
http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1012/Nederland/article/detail/4294662/2016/05/04/Commotie-om-video-Jehovah-s-over-homohuwelijk.dhtml
http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/25726326/__Jehova_s__LHTB_s_naar_de_hel__.html
Wonderful! Thank you :D
Dank u wel Gorby!
This is not a case of “follow us, or don’t fly,” this is a case of “follow us, or die.”
I loved this line!
Excellent article, as always, Mr. Evans.
For what it’s worth, there is a Reverend named Vernon Dozier that uses electroshock therapy and aversion technics to cure homosexuality. I remember he cured one fellow named Warren Benman right on the Phil Hendrie Show.
Wonderfully said, This is not a case of “follow us, or don’t fly,” this is a case of “follow us, or die.”
Is history repeating itself?
*** w60 10/1 p. 598 The Church Started with the Holy Scriptures ***
“When the crusaders at last stormed Jerusalem, July 15, 1099, they drove all the Jews into one of the synagogues and there burned them alive. . . . The religious zeal fomented by the Crusades burned as fiercely against the Jews as enemies of Christ as against the Moslems. Thus both economically and socially the Crusades were disastrous for European Jews.”
This is a form of child abuse, these videos will only cause emotional upset and conflict for the witness children who watch them, their teachers and classmates. I cannot imagine how a loving parent would allow their child to watch this mental indoctrination at such a vulnerable and impressionable age. I sincerely hope that the UK Charity Commission is aware of this content and it is removed immediately. You can expect a huge backlash to this content from normal, law abiding, tax paying humans that have a freedom of choice in terms of their sexual orientation.
I agree @Freed Mason. This is child abuse. You are opening the doors to your child getting bullied for his or intolerance or getting the sh** beat of of him or her– self-imposed persecution.
I always thought it interesting they named their cartoon boy Caleb. That means dog does it not, and what is the hire of a dog euphemistic for in Biblical terms? Some one somewhere on the writing team was having a little in joke going on. The witness leadership are sick puppies.Oh the day we see Sophia get baptised and then two years later d’fd for crimes against watchtower. I’m sure there are some jdumb kids who think these cartoons are real. I have a new suggestion for the gb spies on this site… How about a t shirt campaign with your two little darlings sweet eyed asking us and our kids for MORE money. guilt is not working , extortion did for a bit but I reckon the charm offensive will do nicely. yours everso cynically Ruthlee
in German the boy is called Philipp…;-)
@ruthlee – the “in joke”? Caleb – yes, does seem to derive from dog, but the Biblical story is that Caleb was a spy. The rest of the spies as Numbers 13 relates were timid of taking on the inhabitants to conquer while Caleb was sure of conquering the Promised Land.
But, let’s focus on spying. Once you have indoctrinated the children, who runs and runs their mouths at the most inconvenient time “spilling all the beans” to grandparents, neighbors, spouses, or elders?
Sophia is derived from Greek for “wisdom” and this could be linked to gnosis or knowledge via intelligence. So, what we’re revealing is something akin to the youth movements where children are used by authorities to report on insurgent (or insubordinate) parents.
It’s like this is some psy-op experiment in turning mass population into subservient and willing subjects (regardless of what the leadership says or does) negating need of and expense of an enforcement agency to police the population being dominated.
The Watchtower are crook. They say “Telephone sex is one of the means that Satan the Devil is using to corrupt young ones today.” (g04 2/22 p. 21) but keep feeding our children with “SEX IN THE BIBLE”!
How interesting that Watchtower puts out a video against Same-Sex Couples, but gave them the right to marry based on a United States Supreme Court case from the 1960’s.
A USA today article titled, “How Jehovah’s Witnesses helped kill Prop 8”, shows how a court case involving the rights of Same-Sex Couple to Marry were upheld by a precedent set by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.
Here is the link to that very article, How Jehovah’s Witnesses helped kill Prop 8
It also has the whole case transcript as a link in the article.
Has anyone heard any responses from JW’s or the GB etc? Netherlands, as I have read made a response but anything from anywhere else?.
What about the gay community? How are they viewing, no pun intended, this?
@Tara – total outrage, but the LGBT community–global community–has been battling this sort of bigotry for years now, so the Watchtower is a newcomer to the fighting ring while the LGBT community are veteran contenders.
The Watchtower & JW’s claim to be non-political and neutral, but these sorts of videos prove my point that it is impossible to be neutral when you have an active theology that opposes a group of people–be it Muslim, Jewish, LGBT–everyone else, except apparently pedophiles.
forgot to add–in the past, the JW organization didn’t suggest children make statements like this to their classmates. Children were encouraged to share their beliefs but not to JUDGE others for their beliefs. This line of teaching is straight out of fundamentalist/evangelical camps–probably from converts picked up from those, or an attempt to compete with conservative evangelicals becoming politically active and outspoken against the so-called “gay agenda”.
Speaking of wife-beating..
https://youtu.be/vdB9nTe4ldE
I hope this gets wider publicity.
@ PeterB.
Gods people throughout the bible were never perfect like god is. Nowhere in the bible does it say that in the last days God would have a perfect Org. Nowhere!”.
Peter, It sounds like your study conductor is doing a good job on you.
Maybe the “Bible” doesn’t say God would have a perfect organisation,
but the “Watchtower” does and claims that position for its self.
Note the following.
1956 “Who controls the organization, who directs it? Who is at the head? A man? A group of men? A clergy class? A pope? A hierarchy? A council? No, none of these. How is that possible? In any organization is it not necessary that there be a directing head or policy-making part that controls or guides the organization? Yes. Is the living God, Jehovah, the Director of the theocratic Christian organization? Yes!” (Watchtower, November 1, 1956, p. 666).
Is God perfect or his he not? The Bible says he is, Deut,32:4, Ps, 18:30.
So claiming that an infallible source is controlling, guiding and policy
making can be interpreted no other way than saying this organisation
Is Perfect.
It’s only when they are forced into changing dates and flip flopping
on doctrine, they then adopt the fall back position. That we are only
fallible men. Peter I wish you well in your search for truth, but just
at present I think you’re looking entirely in the wrong place.
@Big B
Hmm, scriptures in Isiah and many others sure as hell sound like it’s hinting towards a restoration of a paradisiac situation. If not, then why the fuck is the earth here for? I totally prefer the idea that there would be some sort of “organization” for a people of God in our time to help understand a decent chunk of the Bible. To be organized.
Peter B:
“….scriptures in Isiah and many others sure as hell sound like it’s hinting towards a restoration of a paradisiac situation.”
– Which scriptures are these?
– How do these sctiptures “hint towards a restoration of a paradisiac situation”?
it is good you hav indicated its your preference that there would be some sort of organization but certainly not the preference of God.you hav a right to prefer what you want but make sure you don’t go door to door peddling the lie that its a bible teaching
@Grace
I know all of the fact behind the shadow government- including all participating families, secret societies, government agencies, corporations and media. I know what their agenda has always been. I know all the terms and lingo within. If you knew, you all wouldn’t be so gleeful over Gay victories or Gun Control victories. If you only knew. If you put as much energy into investigating your government the way you do the WT, you would know that the WT is not and has never been connected…even if CT Russell was in some form to some degree of masonry. If you knew, then you would know the difference. If you only knew what you government is upto, you’d be protesting right now. If you only knew.
Peter B:
“If you only knew what you government is upto, you’d be protesting right now. If you only knew.”
So what is the government up to? Seems you are privy to some information which you need to share with us.
Is not religion the greatest conspiracy of all? The invention
of a God with awesome powers, someone we owe our life to
who loves us, but is capable of violent anger and terrible
retribution if offended.
Behind every religion is the “Hidden Elite” who use this
concept of of a schizophrenic monster, to keep the masses
subservient and compliant. His invisibility and no show is a
key factor in keeping the conspiracy or the illusion from
being Sussed out.
@dee2
(KING JAMES)
Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isaiah 65:21-25 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent’s meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
http://biblehub.com/hcsb/psalms/37.htm
29The righteous will inherit the landar
and dwell in it permanently.
That doesn’t sound ANYTHING like a paradise earth right?
PeterB,
“That doesn’t sound ANYTHING like a paradise earth right?”
– Paradise for whom? Who were these scriptures addressed to?
– Just my musings:
I’ve always wondered if wolves, leopards and lambs can actually dwell/lie down together?
Or if the calf and the young lion and the fatling can actually dwell/lie down together?
Can a little child safely lead wolves, leopards, and young lions?
Can wolves and lambs actually feed together, and lions eat straw like the bullock?
– Are you aware that persons will die in this Paradise?
Isaiah 65:22: “…….for as the days of a tree are the days of my people…….”
– Could you please explain how Isaiah 45:18 pertains to the Paradise?
@dee2
As far as the Government. It’s so much for thrilling and sickeningly informative to do the research on your own. Go to the United Nations Website and look up Agenda 21. (then do research until the wee hours of the morning on that)
look up agenda 2030.
look up bohemian grove
look up Black Lives Matter (seriously)
look up the The Georgia Stones
Study the lay out, art and inscriptions of the White House and surrounding Gov buidlings
Research the origins of the Illuminati and the worship of the owl
look up Bill Clinton having sex with children
look up chemtrails and what they really are
look up plans for a NEW WORLD ORDER and what it means for you
watch Food Inc and see where all that connects
look up what fluoride in your water REALLY is
If you think that the twin towers fell at free fall speed in just under an hour of being hit by a plane…and that the impact of and fuel made them fall the way they did…LOL
Not to mention World Trade Center 7 (the 3rd building in NY to call that same day in the same fashion as the other 2…free fall speed like a controlled demo! In order to have those buildings fall perfectly it was going to take sophisticated top notch planning by top notch science. Not some fools in a cave in the East. Think.
Look up the real agenda behind gun control and the real planning behind all these mass shootings.
PeterB,
Perhaps you should be studying with Alex Jones, not JWs. Your conspiracy theories are most certainly NOT shared by them, and if your study conductor says they are then you are being humoured and drawn in, inch by inch. That’s how they do it. You’ll find they don’t contemplate anything beyond surface levels and always draw the most simplistic conclusions that fit their doomsday beliefs. You’re wasting your time. And actually I share some of your concerns: Agenda 21 etc.
Just because the government’s of this world are corrupt and deceitful, (Governments always have been) doesn’t mean that JW’S have the truth.
In fact, considering the deceit that the JW’S are guilty of, from revising their old literature to omit embarrassing false teachings and predictions, to even go so far as to revise THE BIBLE (no less) in order to better support their doctrines, to allow their members to stake and lose their lives on doctrinal demands based upon incorrect interpretation of scriptures – just to then recant on this ‘truth’ in favour of “new light’.
Truth doesn’t change.
Truth doesn’t need to be adjusted.
Truth doesn’t have to manipulated.
Truth either is, or isn’t.
If it isn’t…
Then it’s called Lies.
The JW organisation is built on lies.
It teaches lies.
You are being deceived by expert deceivers.
I think you already know this.
“Just because the government’s of this world are corrupt and deceitful, (Governments always have been) doesn’t mean that JW’S have the truth.”
Jim Jones People’s Temple cult leader:
“Will you tell me you believe in God out there? So what? What’s your sky God ever done? Two out of three nations in the world are hungry. Misery in every one of your homes. The only happiness you’ve found is when you’ve come to this earth God!
Your children were in difficulties. No one came to the jails. You prayed to your sky God and he never heard your prayers. You asked and begged and pleaded in your suffering … . He never provided a home, but I, your socialist God, have given you all these things. When your world has failed you, I’ll be standing because I am freedom. I am peace. I am Justice. I am God!”
(Source: Raven: The Untold Story of the Reverend Jim Jones and His People).
Jonestown. A symbol of just how deep and dark Christian fundamentalism can get.
The JW’S aren’t fair behind I fear.
Whilst not explicitly commanding it’s members to kill themselves in the name of their version of God – yet – They specifically instruct their members to die for JHVH in various ways.
I fear for my brother and his family, still completely entranced and mesmerised by the hypnotic power of this putrid cult.
Wish he’d get out before they give the Kool Aid command.
On another note that PeterB made regarding the ‘Worldwide preaching work’
Door to door.
Surely the least effective way to preach an urgent message?
Saving lives at the speed of………foot.
Slowly ambling around neighbourhoods, quietly confident that no one will be at home to hear the most lazily and incoherently delivered life saving message of all time.
At the very least the Mormons send out articulate people with a concise message into the field.
Not the witnesses. Children, mopey teenagers, the elderly, the uneducated.
Ambassadors for the kingdom, commissioned with the most important job in human history.
Saving humanity from imminent destruction… easily sent on their ambling way with a simple: ‘Not today thanks’.
I read a Wachtower article on JW.ORG this week which talks about the Rapture of the last remaining annointed ones during the great tribulation.
The article was so poorly written and so vague it was painful to read.
That 8 million people are wasting their lives and resources, hopes and future on this pack of lies is just so sad.
I hope my Bro finds the way out.
PeterB seems to believe that the WT has the answers to the problems in the world and he seems to be ignorant of the fact that cults exploit/use people’s dissatisfaction with the world, problems with the world, crises, catastrophes etc. to get persons to believe that their group has the answers which no other group has and they must be part of their group to be saved. Jim Jones did an excellent job at this and history tells us what the outcome was for Jim Jones and his followers.
Jonestown. A symbol of just how deep and dark Christian fundamentalism can get.
The JW’S aren’t far behind I fear.
Whilst not explicitly commanding it’s members to kill themselves in the name of their version of God – yet – They specifically instruct their members to die for JHVH in various ways.
I fear for my brother and his family, still completely entranced and mesmerised by the hypnotic power of this putrid cult.
Wish he’d get out before they give the Kool Aid command.
On another note that PeterB made regarding the ‘Worldwide preaching work’
Door to door.
Surely the least effective way to preach an urgent message?
Saving lives at the speed of………foot.
Slowly ambling around neighbourhoods, quietly confident that no one will be at home to hear the most lazily and incoherently delivered life saving message of all time.
At the very least the Mormons send out articulate people with a concise message into the field.
Not the witnesses. Children, mopey teenagers, the elderly, the uneducated.
Ambassadors for the kingdom, commissioned with the most important job in human history.
Saving humanity from imminent destruction… easily sent on their ambling way with a simple: ‘Not today thanks’.
I read a Wachtower article on JW.ORG this week which talks about the Rapture of the last remaining annointed ones during the great tribulation.
The article was so poorly written and so vague it was painful to read.
That 8 million people are wasting their lives and resources, hopes and future on this pack of lies is just so sad.
I hope my Bro finds the way out.
PeterB seems to believe that the WT has the answers to the problems in the world and he seems to be ignorant of the fact that cults exploit/use people’s dissatisfaction with the world, problems with the world, crises, catastrophes etc. to get persons to believe that their group has the answers which no other group has and they must be part of their group to be saved. Jim Jones did an excellent job at this and history tells us what the outcome was for Jim Jones and his followers.
Hypocrites are not easy to deal with. The Watchtower are today’s Pharisees.
*** w11 11/1 p. 7 Ten Questions About Sex Answered ***
Even though they do not condone homosexual relations, true Christians show kindness to all people. (Matthew 7:12) God wants us to “honor men of all sorts.” Therefore, genuine Christians are not homophobic.—1 Peter 2:17.
I know this is going to be an off topic comment. I want to share my experience, it may help someone. I was shunned by my JW brother and sister for twentyone years. After my husband died I started attending meetings so I could have family in my life. Now that they see I don’t go out in service and I am rarely going to meetings my JW family are shunning me again. The funny thing about this is that this time I really, honestly don’t care. I feel it’s their problem and not mine. This is the second time around for me being shunned by my JW family. THEY ARE THE ONLY FAMILY I HAVE yet in my brain I cut all ties with them. It took me a long time to do that. I realize I don’t want to be around people who treat me the way they do even though they are family. The society for me is a dictatorship. They dictate what you say, they dictate what you feel, they dictate your sex life, they dictate how your kids treat a lesbian couple and their child, they dictate how you look, they dictate what comes out of your mouth. The society treats everyone like muppets by pulling their strings. I feel calmer and less stress letting go.
Hi Alice. I think a lot of us have gone through the mental and emotional warfare of being shunned by our families. I tried for a while to stay in contact but once I had children and I caught them preaching to them I had to sever all ties. I think people drawn to this cult have an already existing precept and the jw doctrines just validated what they already beleived or they dont want to think for themselves. People who shun their family members are not people who loves us nor really comprehend what love really is. It is brainwashing and indoctrination. All we can do is not repeat their mistakes. Good luck to you.
Hi Alice I am in a similar position in that all my relatives who were jws are dead. I have no one from my history. My kids are at that vulnerable age and I do not encourage them to do the stuff I did but they have a vast family ie my inlaws. Like you I am at that point where I don’t give a hoot anymore with them. I honestly don’t need their sarcastic comments and I dont mind if I never uttered another word to any of them. Icannot believe I think like this but somehow we get a strength without these people and don’t need their tightlipped judgement or their trivial gossip. In a way we grow up when we realise this religion is very shallow. If you are a bible reader and a Christian just think about the last time you actually had a conversation about spiritual matters and I’m not talking about speculative whacky ideas from Brooklyn. I think you will find this site with all it’s diversity has given you more to think about with regards your faith, belief and direction than you ever got fed by the famished jdubs So in that way we are not alone . In fact it starts a great journey of discovery. I downed tools last year no more watchtower for me and that has been liberating. It is surprising what the bible says and it is not what they teach. If you have to meet up with jdubs the best advice I heard from Ms Gaskin wear shunglasses. cheers Ruthlee
The wolf and lamb lying down together, the predator and
prey system abolished. “They will not hurt or destroy in all
my holy mountain”
To be meaningful, that promise has got to extend to all living
things. The mind just focuses on the larger animals, but
the predator prey relationship goes right down to the insect
world.
The screams of a fly trapped in a spiders web have been
amplified, it feels it experiences fear and terror, just as much
as a wildebeest being dragged under by a crocodile or a
zebra suffocated by a lion.
The more you meditate on this topic the more you realise how
foolish it is to interpret it literally. I look back and wonder where
my mind was when I thought this stuff was real. I think I must
have regressed to kindergarten.
Imagine the scenario if all the carnivores/predators are converted to herbivores and there is no more food chain: death would only be as a result of aging, assuming that the animals are not going to live forever like humans, too – but then according to Revelation 21:4 it seems the animals may very well be living forever too since
“There will be no more death………for the old order of things has passed away.”
So now, with no more food chain, there would now be a potential risk of an out-of-control animal population…………welcome to Paradise.
The term “homophobia” seems distinctly Orwellian to me. Perhaps Mr Cedars could explain the rationale behind the use of this word.
A homophobic person is supposed to have an irrational fear and hatred towards homosexuals, based on the belief that sex between people of the same sex is wrong. This is a moral claim, which is not refuted by argument, but by an attack on the person’s character i.e. he/she has an irrational hatred towards such people.
This is simply fallacious reasoning, and a clear instance of the ad hominem fallacy.
It’s also something of a non sequitor. You are saying that if a person contends that a certain action is wrong, then they have an irrational fear and hatred of those who engage in that action. There is a fairly broad consensus that theft is wrong, but it does not follow that those holding this view are inciting hatred towards thieves.
If that was the case, then the only way to avoid such hatred would be to have no moral guidelines, which would be nihilism not love.
Those who are reacting so vehemently against this video are themselves making moral judgments. They are condemning those who say homosexual conduct is wrong, and are contributing to a climate of intolerance against those who hold such views. Could it not be said that they are also inciting a certain hatred towards such people? There is an bitter irony here regarding the issue of tolerance.
Is it fair to denigrate someone’s character on the basis of little or no evidence? I would contend that the homophobic label is little more than a smear tactic, designed to deny any rational debate. It is irrational contempt disguised as fake moral outrage.
You are also saying-in this instance-that a moral viewpoint (Biblically justified) is irrational.
I also take issue with Mr Cedars contention regarding the inevitability of sexual preferences: “Anybody remotely in tune with reality understands that homosexuality is not a “choice,” as so often portrayed by Christian fundamentalists. Straight people are born straight, and gay people are born gay.”
I would direct readers to an article on this subject, suggesting that such a contention is deeply flawed: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/for-the-first-time-a-majority-of-americans-believe-homosexuals-are-born-tha
I look forward to any comments and will try to answer any reasonable objections.
Thank you for reading this.
@John Great comment
@Cedars – I got this one…
First, the definition of homophobic by Merriam-Webster is: “irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.” We can tell from context that the article is focused on issue of Watchtower setting minds for the “discrimination against homosexuals” by creating their “love” as immoral. This was once true for miscegenation, as well. It was considered immoral (and still is in some Christian colleges) to date and marry black/brown/yellow/tan/olive to white.
“Who Produces LifeSiteNews?
The service was originally started by Campaign Life Coalition (CLC), a Canadian national pro-life organization headquartered in Toronto, Canada.”
I would suggest that the “balanced” research you’re inviting me to read is substantially biased by a conservative, perhaps religious, organization’s biased viewpoint.
And, what a coincidence there is a political organization in Canada which is quite the conservative Christian group, “The Campaign Life Coalition (often called Campaign Life) is a Canadian conservative Christian group that opposes abortion.” If Lee Atwater taught me anything, it’s that political conservatives believe the end does justify the means, regardless of the facts; he eventually repudiated those methods. I encourage you to look beyond your political camp for true data, and by the way, if you’re sincere in becoming JW, you can pretty much hang up reading these political sites as well as Cedar’s blog.
Wiki actually tells us more about this group than their website does:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_Life_Coalition
I encourage you to read:
Non-academic
“Is It a Choice?” by Eric Marcus, p. 9-11.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-pavlovitz/yes-homosexuality-absolutely-is-a-choice_b_7106800.html
Scholarly
http://www.livescience.com/about
http://www.livescience.com/50058-being-gay-not-a-choice.html
http://www.livescience.com/37139-facts-about-gay-conversion-therapy.html
http://www.livescience.com/13409-myths-gay-people-debunked-sexual-orientation.html
I fear that you may be laboring under a misapprehension.
Whist I fully understand the desire to prove a genetic disposition for homosexuality, it would ultimately have no bearing whatsoever on the Biblical injunction against homosexual behaviour.
Mr Cedars stated that “Straight people are born straight, and gay people are born gay”. This was simply an unsubstantiated assertion, which is not supported by current findings.
Whilst I may have referenced an article by a pro-life site, this aspect does not negate the validity of their information. Your dismissive reaction was a clear instance of the genetic fallacy i.e. rejecting by source not merit.
You have recommended articles by livescience.com, a site which
is clearly antagonistic towards the Christian faith. Does this mean that I should be dismissive of their output?
Since you are happy to resort to such tactics, here are some recent headlines from another of your sources, The Huffington Post:-
Jan 28: “Oops Amanda Seyfried Slips Off Her Undies”
——— ” Did Jennifer Lawrence’s Dress Rip at SAG Awards?”
Jan 31: “Chloe Kardasian- My Vagina Smells Like Roses”
Feb 1: “Jennifer Lawrence Describes her Breasts?”
Feb 3: “‘Girls’ Star’s Dress Debuts Boob Windows”
Feb 3: “Fmr Miss France Flashes her Headlights” (breasts)
I would also direct you to this site http://shameproject.com/profile/arianna-huffington/ detailing the dubious activities of the woman behind The Huffington Post, including her involvement with a New Age cult.
The reason why I cited the mentioned lifesite.com article was simply to highlight the Yale and Columbia study on identical twins; a study which led the researchers to conclude that genetics was not the primary factor in shaping sexual preferences.
Whilst there may be certain indications for differing influences, we do not yet have a full understanding of the roles of genetics and environment in the causation of homosexuality, and it is simply silly to suggest otherwise. There is certainly no definitive case either way.
Even if it were true that “gay people are born gay” this would in no way alter the sinful nature of homosexual activity. It’s not how you got the inclination, but what you do with it that counts.
Finally, your providing a dictionary definition of homophobic does nothing to counter my assessment of the word. It is simply an appeal to authority.
The subject of what creates homosexuality is still an area of research without a definitive answer.
There might not gay gene per se, but that doesn’t mean that people choose to be gay. An easy way of debunking that idea is that homosexuality is observable in animals, who can not make a conscious choice as humans can.
The website you linked to is a pro-Christian website. From it’s ‘About’ section:
3. LifeSiteNews.com’s writers and its founders, have come to understand that respect for life and family are endangered by an international conflict. That conflict is between radically opposed views of the worth and dignity of every human life and of family life and community. It has been caused by secularists attempting to eliminate Christian morality and natural law principles which are seen as the primary obstacles to implementing their new world order.
4. LifeSiteNews.com understands that abortion, euthanasia, cloning, homosexuality and all other moral, life and family issues are all interconnected in an international conflict affecting all nations, even at the most local levels. LifeSiteNews attempts to provide its readers with the big picture and the most useful and up-to-date information on this conflict.
So this site is hardly neutral in the subject. May I suggest you read the following links:
http://www.livescience.com/50058-being-gay-not-a-choice.html
http://www.livescience.com/13409-myths-gay-people-debunked-sexual-orientation.html
I have commented earlier that homosexuality may in many cases be a combination of nature and nurture (e.g. Ben Carson asks why some men enter prison straight and come out gay: I would argue that they already had a genetic predisposition toward being homosexual and now had the environment that allowed it to surface; case in point, a number of straight men enter prison straight and leave straight – they lack the genetic predisposition).
But this opinion does not endorse the concept that homosexuals can intentionally change their orientation or that their lifestyle is a choice. Asking someone gay to live as a straight person and condemning them if they cannot do so causes extreme psychological damage and often leads to mental heals issues and even suicide. How many of the commenters on this site have known or heard of a JW who was gay and was driven to commit suicide? I have.
WS
@John. Gay people do not condemn straight people to death by divine execution.
They do not demand that straight people change their sexual orientation.
Gay people do not insist that straight people are only that way because they choose to be.
Gay people do not care if you are straight, bent, curved, zigzagged, concave, convex.
They don’t believe that straight people are inferior or less entitled to live an uncomplicated and persecution free life.
Gay people just want what straight people have.
The right to be human without being judged as something less than.
Live and let live.
Why obsess over what consenting adults choose to do between themselves.
Being Gay is not wicked. It should not be treated as such.
I will address each of your points separately:-
“Gay people do not condemn straight people to death by divine execution.”
The objection to homosexual behaviour is not based on personal opinion and divine judgment is enacted by God not man.
When Christians speak about homosexuality, they are simply stating God’s opinion as expressed in the Bible.
There is a duty on Christians to warn those practicing certain behaviours:
“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God-1 Corinthians 6:9-10 KJV.
As a single heterosexual male, I voluntarily submit to the injunction against sex outside marriage. Were I to have sexual relations outside of this arrangement, I would be ignoring God’s commands and would therefore be subject to divine judgment.
The principal is the same for those who are engaged in homosexual practices.
The only way to avoid divine judgment is through faith and repentance, and it is a Christian duty to make this known. You could say that this involves making a ‘judgment’ on someone’s conduct, but
the process originates with God’s word.
Christians certainly have no authority to condemn anyone to death.
“As a single heterosexual male, I voluntarily submit to the injunction against sex outside marriage”… ah.. this is a half-truth, sooner or later you will be able to find someone, but for homosexuals what provides your loving God? ah yes, “wait for the magic new world”. pity that thousands of people died waiting…
@John – Ok. Firstly, you only addressed one of my points.
And you did so by immediately trying to avoid accountability by actually blaming God.
‘It’s not we who judge, it’s GOD. We simply have to do/feel as instructed’.
Well, this is actually not the case as the scripture you quoted was in fact written by a man.
Paul.
Paul wasn’t even quoting Jesus.
He was dictating new doctrine.
And before you jump to the ‘All scripture is inspired by God’ line of reasoning, let’s not forget that this assertion of divine inspiration was actually also written by……… Paul.
Paul in all likelihood had a personal dislike for ‘Effeminate’ men and therefore created his own ‘inspired’ rulebook.
I have to wonder though. What actually is the benchmark for ‘Too effeminate’?
How is it measured?
Are we talking about being a bit camp?
Over-accenting the “S’s” in our ssentencess?
Limp handshake? High pitched laugh?
Standing with hand on hip?
Too much blinking when talking?
One or all of these? Or combinations of?
It’s only fair to know what God considers to be too girly.
Or, is Paul on a little personal crusade?
I think it’s also vital that you address the following sins in Paul’s list:
“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God-1 Corinthians 6:9-10 KJV
The JW org regularly extorts money from it’s members. Even children being emotionally blackmailed to give their pocket money to the WT.
They are thieves. Having stolen time, lives, education, careers, and family from it’s members using incorrect teachings and timescales.
They are covetous. Greedy for wealth, property, status. The plush new headquarters and ‘Telly Award’ deception is testament to how low the WT will stoop to make itself look prestigious.
They are revilers. Speaking abusively about their ‘mentally diseased’ former members. Publically holding in contempt other religions, Catholicism particularly.
Drunkards? Again. Did Paul give us an indication of limit to alcohol consumption.
When is drunk… too drunk?
I’ve been tipsy on alcohol with many a Witness and had a jolly good time.
Are all Witnesses therefore as unentitled to God’s Kingdom as a Homosexual?
The JW’s interpret the bible to their own ends – Read the new world translation’s rendering of the above scripture for confirmation of that –
Picking and choosing which sins they decide most deserve the focal point, all the while utterly ignoring their own sinfulness according to the same texts.
Also – If ALL scripture is inspired by God… Then why have WT decided to remove John Chapter 8 verses 1 – 11 from their bible?
Also, the scripture above doesn’t say anything about ‘slightly butch’ women.
How deep are women’s voices allowed to get?
Can they wear dungerees?
I guess Paul, like a lot of Homophobic men, doesn’t have a problem with a little lesbianism.
@John,
“It’s not how you got the inclination, but what you do with it that counts.”
“The only way to avoid divine judgment is through faith and repentance………”
What about persons who have tried conversion therapy and faith and repentance but who have indicated that these things did not get rid of their homosexual inclination?
I wonder if God will still pour out his divine judgment on these persons despite their trying to overcome their inclination but nothing worked?
Admittedly, the jury is still out on whether there is a genetic disposition for homosexuality – as I understand it, no “gay gene” has been identified to date.
[Evangelical comment removed per our religious neutrality policy – please refer to our posting guidelines before commenting again.]
John, You say,
Is it fair to denigrate someone’s character on the basis of little or no evidence? I would contend that the homophobic label is little more than a smear tactic, designed to deny any rational debate. It is irrational contempt disguised as fake moral outrage./
The many comments on the subject including your own input, clearly
demonstrate that there is no stifling of debate on this site.
Views will always be polarised on this, and many other subjects.
Authorities and studies can always be found and cited to support
a particular claim. One has got to resolve in his own mind which
information carries the most weight.
Thank goodness for freedom of thought and speech? Yours
as well as mine.
Watchtower indoctrination. When will this end? All individuals and children must have the freedom to exercise their human rights and express themselves. Watchtower STOP polluting young minds with your ideologies.
@John,
“It’s not how you got the inclination, but what you do with it that counts.”
“The only way to avoid divine judgment is through faith and repentance………”
What about persons who have tried conversion therapy and faith and repentance but who have indicated that these things did not get rid of their homosexual inclination?
I wonder if God will still pour out his divine judgment on these persons despite their trying but nothing worked?
Admittedly, the jury is still out on whether there is a genetic disposition for homosexuality as based on my understanding no “gay” gene has been identified to date.
After pioneering for over a decade, I wondered where the GB got the 70 hours requirement.
Did Jesus or any of the apostles ever count time? This modern day slavery is heart breaking. We have been taught in the watchtower that when we revenge, we are being presumptuous.(I.e doing Jehovah’s work) is DF not an act of presumptuousness? After watching Geoffery, I told mysef:This is indeed a renaissance period for all JW’s. Reading critically through the comments I did a lot of research,wow. 1914, Jephthah etc. My book of bible stories, Specifically Story 53 says that Jephthah’s daughter was not offered as aburnt offering. SMH.
Lloyd, thank you so much for that article. I am pleased you reminded us of the Ugandan situation. In a recent ‘Watchtower’ there was an article on ‘Honesty’, which I believe should include intellectual honesty, something the Witnesses sometimes find difficult. Whether one agrees with homosexual practice or not, there ought to be no place in the Church for homophobic behaviour.
Just my tuppence worth. I’ve said before, I’m just you’re basic Penny not an Amy (reference to Big Bang Theory, just in case you wondered). If God created us in his image etc… Why did he add a ‘faulty’ gene? Oh I know the Adam and Eve story etc etc but we are not talking about an illness here, we are talking about something in the make up of mankind that makes us who we are.
When I asked an ‘anointed one’ how he knew he was such, he showed me the scripture about Gods sons knowing who they are – can’t remember how it went… he also asked me how I knew I was female – said that’s how he knew he was anointed. So using the same logic can’t gay people say they know who they are?
Now not so long ago didn’t the GB through the WT say most of those claiming to be of the anointed were sick? So now they are also saying those who don’t match up to …. oh wait, themselves, are also ‘sick’.
lots of double standards going on.
I would sooner be with a group of gays who have love among themselves than with a group of people who imagine themselves as perfect individuals, set to be whisked away to the heavens, who look down on individuals who have a ‘faulty gene’ that god gave them in the first place!
BTW local info suggests many at the hall are refusing to let their kids watch the video.