A video has emerged showing a three-year-old reading bible verses dealing with rape and hanging
A video has emerged showing a three-year-old reading bible verses dealing with alleged rape and hanging

Last Tuesday a video was posted on Facebook with the caption: “We must praise Jehovah and this child did it.”

The child in question was aged only three-and-a-half when he was filmed giving a bible reading back in March 2011. The assigned reading was Esther 7:1-10.

The video begins with the microphone being adjusted as the boy, perched precariously on a stool and apparently unsupported, prepares to speak.

The boy then goes on to deliver an impassioned and well-rehearsed reading in which Jewish enslavement and genocide is casually mentioned (verse 4), a king alleges that an attempted rape has been made on his queen (verse 8), and the alleged rapist is hung on a 22-meter-high stake (verses 9 and 10).

The video ends with the boy climbing down from the stool to the rapturous applause of his audience before scampering to the side of his parents on the front row.

With the stool removed a beaming School Overseer takes the stage – the same man who will doubtless have assigned the boy this portion of scripture without finding it in any way inappropriate for a small child to examine and repeatedly rehearse.

The elder then commends the boy for his accurate reading and “sense stress” to the delight of the chuckling audience, before telling him that he looks forward to his next assignment.

If you are not seriously repulsed at the thought of a child of pre-school age being coaxed into reading material describing an alleged rape attempt and the killing of the suspected rapist by hanging, then likely you will be heartened by some of the comments left on the video by Witness Facebook users.

facebook-commentsWhen I was first told of this Facebook post I watched a few minutes of the video without it immediately registering what grizzly bible passage the boy was reading.

Even so, I was still repulsed by the idea that a child so small was being trotted out like a show pony by its Witness parents as an apparent attempt to score brownie points over other parents in their congregation. It occurred to me – if the boy was being goaded onto the stage at such a young age, how much longer before he would be baptized?

Eager to bring some balance to the discussion, I made the following comment…

cedars-commentYou can imagine my horror when I later looked up the passage in my own bible and followed along more closely – seeing the references to rape and hanging being casually enunciated from the mouth of a toddler.

My blood boiled at the stupidity of the School Overseer who had assigned the child this reading without thinking for a moment that it was completely improper – not to mention the parents who would have spent hours helping their boy master these passages in rehearsals.

But I soon found my comment had been deleted by the thread owner, along with others that attempted to highlight the gross impropriety of what was being shown.

censor-commentClearly thrilled that any dissenting voices were now being crushed, one Facebook user had this to say…

noah-commentAnd so for registering my disapproval at the way in which a boy of three was being exploited and cajoled into behaving like an adult minister (without even getting started on the desensitization to rape and hanging as well as the casual references to enslavement and genocide), I along with others found myself censored and denounced as “harsh” and even exploitative. The fact that the boy made a good job of the reading and was “praising his creator” was apparently the only thing I should have been concerning myself with.

No reason for pride

Any Witness parents reading this article or watching this video must take a long hard look at themselves and ask whether they would behave similarly towards their own children.

I have already discussed at some length the increasing problem of child baptism among Jehovah’s Witnesses, and the Governing Body’s seeming preoccupation with getting children dunked at the earliest available opportunity regardless of the far-reaching consequences.

Children are born neither religious nor political. For parents to successfully coerce their young into mindlessly mimicking their own indoctrination like some kind of crude ventriloquist act is nothing for them to be proud of, just as it was no great effort for the leaders of the Hitler Youth movement to make young mouths parrot their twisted ideology.

This video was apparently filmed nearly three years ago, so the boy in question should be six by now. At this rate, you have to wonder whether he is already among the youngest to have been processed through Watchtower’s vulgar cattle dip of child baptism and branded for life.

Sadly the only thing we can be sure of is that, if he was, he won’t be the last.

 

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89 thoughts on “Video shows three-year-old reading bible verse describing rape allegations and hanging

  • February 8, 2014 at 6:52 am
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    Seeing that very young child being pushed to perform like that, and seeing how your critical comment was censored, I couldn’t help but be reminded by the JWs of a certain authoritarian communist regime/culture that also pushes its young to start training for the Olympics from very young and which also censors criticism from outsiders.

  • February 8, 2014 at 7:24 am
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    I’ve said it in a thousand places online, I’ll say it here; if a grade school or grammar school had children reading phrases such as “raping of the queen” and about a man being staked, they would be sued and rightly so. Yet JWs beam with pride and see nothing wrong with this since it’s in the bible. Perhaps his next reading will be of Lot’s daughters having sex with their drunken father, Solomon threatening to slice a baby in half, a concubine being tossed to a gang of rapists and then being chopped up into 12 pieces when she dies from her assaults, or other fun age-appropriate stuff. If a visitor had been there that night and heard that, what would be their reaction?

    It’s not surprising since they don’t care how violence and abuse affect children in the home, encouraging women to stay with their abusers with not one word said about the children, and I mean not one. They beat their own children when they can’t sit still at the meetings and turn a blind eye to pedophiles. Anyone can say their religion is loving, but their actions are exactly the opposite.

  • February 8, 2014 at 8:08 am
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    I notice that almost every JW comment has spelling, vocabulary or grammatical errors. If you want to make a point about how smart your children are, you would be wise to at least check your own use of the English language.

    That little boy is adorable! What a sad abuse of a potentially brilliant young mind. This youngster clearly has an exceptional gift for reading. I hope he gets a good education and is given the chance to actually use his powerful mind to think critically for himself. Instead, he is being forced into an oppressive religion. Thought-control at its finest. Very sad.

  • February 8, 2014 at 8:19 am
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    alexjames: We used to be bible students who attended meetings with our 1 and 3 year old. I used to be pacing around with my baby, while trying to also keep my 3-year old sitting quietly in her seat.

    I actually once had an elder tell me that he would take his child out of the meeting, if they were not quiet… “I’d just take him in the back and give him a little pat on the behind, and return him to his seat.”

    Needless to say, that did not sit well with me. We were not impressed with the way they dealt with children or babies at the KH. Learning about Jesus should be a positive experience, not a punishment! The topics of discussion, and the way people got excited when a child would answer questions about mature situations… disgusting! I am really glad we decided not to join this group and subject our children to this mind-damaging organization. We left, and my kids do not remember the meetings. They are also well-informed about this destructive and dishonest cult, as we watch their grandparents, aunt, uncle and cousins get farther and farther away from reality, and from us.

    • February 8, 2014 at 9:21 am
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      My mother was given the same advice when she came in and we were little, and needless to say, all bets were off at that point. She used to beat my brother especially for anything and everything, at home and Hall. I’ve seen the beatings at the Hall as well, and it’s pure child abuse. Children need to be taught to sit still, yes, but let’s be honest, most adults have a hard time sitting through their poor-quality presentations about outdated subjects and people who lived thousands of years ago.

  • February 8, 2014 at 8:33 am
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    Shame on the (adults) that allowed that reading!!! Too bad all that great reading at a very young age will be wasted on jw material only. He will never see the inside of a college classroom….. Sad!

  • February 8, 2014 at 8:35 am
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    The bible message is not the least bit important to any jw within earshot of it’s being read out loud. Of course we all know that the whole purpose of reading the bible outloud is simply a lesson in good public speaking.

    The more gestures, inflection, pauses, the tms student inserts, the more likely the praises and repeat assignments. Not one of the jw responders even mentioned the scripture or it’s meaning, it was solely focused on this baby’s abilities. Most of them assuring everyone that Jehovah himself was very pleased with this 3 year old showman.

    I wonder if the worshipers of the ancient fire breathing God Baal was glorified and declared as extremely pleased, as those ancient parents walked their own babies up the ramp as burn sacrifices to their chosen god?

    Absurd conduct from a people who claim to be God’s chosen people. They should be ashamed and offering apology for this display of completely tasteless usery. I can only imagine what this child had to endure to prepare this little show.

  • February 8, 2014 at 8:56 am
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    If I saw a 3 year old reading a dicey portion Macbeth I’d be equally amazed at a 3 yr old reading despite context. I like your informative posts, but sometimes you are a bit of a cry baby about pretty benign things. Feels like last few months you have lost your objectivity.

    • February 8, 2014 at 9:18 am
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      There’s nothing “cry baby” about having a mere infant read out loud the phrase “raping of the queen” and of hanging someone on a stake. As I said, if a grade school had children read out loud passages of accused rape and a staking, parents would be outraged and rightly so. If a child read out loud passages from “50 Shades of Grey,” you would be okay with that? Perhaps you need to work on sensitivity rather than Cedars working on objectivity. After all, someone has to speak up for the sake of the children.

  • February 8, 2014 at 8:59 am
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    I have compiled a very long list of JW email addresses. Rest assured, they will all get a link to this article. Thanks again, Cedars, for your good work.

  • February 8, 2014 at 8:59 am
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    One of the commenters remark: “Judged for destruction by Jehovah because they only thinked in themselves …”

    For comparison, here is a quote from the Appendix to George Orwell’s _Nineteen Eighty-Four_, describing the “Newspeak” language gradually imposed by the totalitarian Big Brother regime: “The preterite of _steal_ was _stealed_, the preterite of _think_ was _thinked_, and so on …”

    One may HOPE that the comment was made by a JW whose native language isn’t English, but I confess I was immediately reminded of Orwell’s Newspeak Appendix …

  • February 8, 2014 at 9:13 am
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    That young lads ability is amazing. Shame on the adults around him that allowed it. The subject matter is not suitable for any child. In saying that there was a time when with a brain washed mind I would have thought nothing of what was done.

  • February 8, 2014 at 9:31 am
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    That gray book is neither culturally significant nor historical. Your analogy is non-sequitur. Any one that observed this clinically and objectively would get that. Those who are clouded by emotional dysfunction that is perhaps a byproduct of both a little nature and nurture will wriggle and writhe at this…but that is a byproduct of clouded bias not an analysis of this in the face of the cultural milieu. I go back to have the kid reading Macbeth and all of a sudden is just an interesting feat of a very young lad.

    • February 8, 2014 at 9:48 am
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      Your entire argument is a non-sequitur. A child reading Macbeth is not being required to base its entire life on a narrow and self-serving interpretation of the words contained therein, and having its entire progression into adulthood measured against said interpretation. And I would much rather listen to a three-year-old child read “Is this a dagger I see before me?” than “Is there also to be a raping of the queen, with me in the house?”

    • February 8, 2014 at 10:17 am
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      “…observed this clinically and objectively…” Well there’s your problem; children should not be observed clinically as they are not science experiment, rats in a cage, or trick ponies meant to amuse and entertain. They are little human beings with feelings and emotions and hearts that need to be nurtured and protected until they are old enough and strong enough to handle the uglier portions of life, one event at a time.

      As someone who grew up with this type of horrific pressure to excel and do more and show off more so that my mother could feel validated through me, and with threats of punishment and ostracism when I couldn’t or was afraid, and as someone who now suffers with horrific panic attacks and anxiety and other issues because of it, I can guarantee there is no room for clinical observation here.

      You may immediately argue against the bias that my own experiences bring, but I would argue that they only make me more qualified to comment on the matter. I’m not a clinician just observing but I’m someone who lived it, and knows firsthand the feelings of children in these situations, and there’s nothing harmless about it. I’m truly sorry that you can’t see that.

  • February 8, 2014 at 9:59 am
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    Rock lover,
    You use fragmented sentences, that do not form a cohesive argument. Making statements that just say you are biased do not add to this discussion.

    Child religious indoctrination has been defined as: “inoculating ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies and
    socialization”.

    I would argue JW’s are a classic example of the use of
    terrorising, making a child feel unsafe, setting unrealistic expectations with threat of loss, harm, or danger if they are not met; and threatening or perpetrating violence against a child or child’s loved ones or objects – (such as, that auntie or uncle can no longer be spoken to as they are going to die at Armageddon) You cannot have that toy because etc etc.

    Exploitation that encourages a child to develop inappropriate behaviors (modelling, permitting, or encouraging antisocial or developmentally inappropriate behavior; encouraging or coercing abandonment of developmentally appropriate autonomy; restricting or interfering with cognitive development)”.
    The list goes on and I am sure, quite a few people on here could give numerous examples of how JW children suffer by being raised in an environment of intolerance, restriction and fear.

  • February 8, 2014 at 10:01 am
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    I have a few remarks regarding this :

    – Yes obviously the section of the Bible presented couldn’t be worse. I remember one day a 7-8 years’ old little girl answering a Watchtower article about a “successful marriage”, which made me wonder how much she understood what she was talking about … The problem of parroting starts early.

    – As part of the gatherings, I’m personally not shocked that little ones are given some space for such occasions, as long as appropriate material is chosen. Actually it did help me, when I was a kid, giving presentations at school, because I was quite used to talk in public. I think it’s OK to make children part of the teachings, activities in a way suitable for the concentration of a child and with good measure. But I’m not talking about the way it’s done with JW’s. I’m just saying that spiritual education can be (or should be) part of education given to a child.

    – I must say, there are sections in the Bible that are really quite harsh, even for an adult to read for the audience …

    – Last but not the least, one of the first thoughts that came to my mind was about the sisters sitting in that room, where this 3 1/2 years’ old boy could address his audience directly as a preparation for his future “teaching” career. In exchange, a 30 years’ old sister is not allowed to do this. Somebody should explain me the logic behind that …

    • February 8, 2014 at 10:05 am
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      Interesting observations JB, thank you.

      Here’s another one as regards your final point. An anointed sister must answer to instructions from an appointed elder of the other sheep, even though the former will one day be ruling over the latter as a heavenly king priest.

  • February 8, 2014 at 10:56 am
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    I attended a congregation where a sister regularly beat her infant in the ladies room because he would not be quiet and sit still. I told the elders that if she didn’t stop I would call child protective services. I was told to discipline my babies for essentially the same “thing and I walked out.

  • February 8, 2014 at 11:05 am
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    Cosa c’è di strano in tutto questo? Una famiglia attenta istruisce fin dai primi anni di vita i figli. Questi sono i primi passi. Se il materiale non era adatto è poco rilevante perché a tre anni qualsiasi materiale sarebbe non adatto. Chi si scandalizza di ciò, dovrebbe commentare la scelta di scuole italiane che stanno facendo girare all’interno degli asili e scuole elementari, le favole rivedute a tema omosessuale.
    Fra alcuni anni potremo vedere i risultati delle due situazioni.

    Google Translation (added by AdminJeni):
    What’s strange about that? A careful family instructs the early years of life children. These are the first steps. If the material was not suitable because it is of little relevance to three years would be any material not suitable. Who is scandalized by this, it should comment on the choice of Italian schools that are making turn in kindergartens and elementary schools, fairy tales revised homosexual theme.
    In a few years we will see the results of the two situations.

  • February 8, 2014 at 11:38 am
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    It’s repulsive. It’s just like a skinhead saying “oooh look honey! He drew his first swastika!” About his own three year old. It’s all about the bragging rights. The jws have to one-up each other because hey… nobody outside their little world gives a damn.

  • February 8, 2014 at 12:32 pm
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    Cedars, the question made me smile, I must admit, I couldn’t remember if it’s possible for sisters to partake. Now, one more question for which we probably won’t get an answer :-)

    I also remember about parents getting angry with their kids. I wonder why they are bringing them to the KH, if it’s for torturing them with a 2 hours’ meeting while a small child can hardly keep in place for 5 minutes … If some appreciate coming to the meetings whole family, I’m sure they could figure out some space more adequate for the children now that WT produces so many nice cartoons for the kids (OK, I don’t insist on this, in case someone takes this seriously) :-)

    One thing I am sure about, if an infant can remain quiet and focused for 2 hours, his/her parents should consider taking him to a doctor.

  • February 8, 2014 at 12:49 pm
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    I hope the next assignment will not be this:
    (Judges 19:24-30) . . .Here are my virgin daughter and his concubine. Let me bring them out, please, and YOU rape them and do to them what is good in YOUR eyes. But to this man YOU must not do this disgraceful, foolish thing.” 25 And the men did not want to listen to him. Hence the man took hold of his concubine and brought her forth to them outside; and they began to have intercourse with her, and kept on abusing her all night long until the morning, after which they sent her off at the ascending of the dawn. 26 Then the woman came as it was turning to morning, and fell down at the entrance of the man’s house where her master was,—until daylight. 27 Later her master rose up in the morning and opened the doors of the house and went out to get on his way, and, look! the woman, his concubine, fallen at the entrance of the house with her hands upon the threshold! 28 So he said to her: “Rise up, and let us go.” But there was no one answering. At that the man took her upon the ass and rose up and went to his place. 29 Then he entered his house and took the slaughtering knife and laid hold of his concubine and cut her up according to her bones into twelve pieces and sent her into every territory of Israel. 30 And it occurred that everybody seeing it said: “Such a thing as this has never been brought about or been seen from the day that the sons of Israel went up out of the land of Egypt down to this day. Set YOUR hearts upon it, take counsel and speak.”

    DISGUSTING!! This is improper for adult!! Mind destroying cult!!

  • February 8, 2014 at 12:53 pm
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    Sorry, I wanted to say that Judges 19:24-30 is even improper for Adults!! It is terrible!!

  • February 8, 2014 at 1:06 pm
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    I cannot defend this in any way. I can, however, put some perspective on the matter (being raised in the “truth” and such).

    A child at three and a half is just being a child. The effort of rehearsal and preparation are not bad things. Once he performed his show-and-tell routine, he gets complements and attention from everyone. This is not a bad thing either. It helps build confidence and pride. The content is irrelevant at this age because the child cannot comprehend the information or it’s meaning, just the emotion of the situation’s cycle: prepare, focus, execute, and receive reward.

    What bothers me is later in years. If he is anything like me, he will become addicted to the complements and admiration of others. THIS is dangerous because it is a very powerful drug. Once he gets to his pre-teen years, the ideas of fear, God’s will, everlasting life, and other “biblical” concepts start to take root while he is in a critical growing stage of mental growth… leading into teenage years where all hell breaks loose emotionally. THAT is when this religion starts doing damage.

    Right now, it’s a toddler reading the bible, but he could very well be reading a poem at a funeral of a grandparent he will never remember, or a quotation at a political rally he will later decide is unethical. The context isn’t as important as this child is being set up for emotional failure.

    I guess it’s the same for all ‘stage parents’ I assume. But I understand the outrage because this is outrageous. As a person who was raised like this, I assure you… the worst is yet to come.

  • February 8, 2014 at 1:15 pm
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    I was the Theocratic Ministry School Overseer in two congregations for about 15 years.

    We were definitely instructed to preview the material to ensure it was not inappropriate for the person assigned the reading assignment or any other part in the school.

    I don’t know what the current instructions are for TMS Overseers, but it is obvious that–even in the absence explicit instructions in this regard–this elder made a gross error in judgment. More than likely, he probably didn’t even look at the material before making the assignment.

    • February 8, 2014 at 3:10 pm
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      it would good to see a scan of those instructions to the school overseer. Is that possible? It can be pasted on here and anywhere else that is appropriate. It would be a good talking point on the JW topix forum website as well

  • February 8, 2014 at 1:16 pm
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    Exactly, it is really pretty amusing what poor writers these clods are.

  • February 8, 2014 at 1:23 pm
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    Anyone who would witness a child reading a very well rehearsed and coaxed reading on this subject matter, and not respond negatively to it, would have to have a “clinical” frame of mind. The rest of us thinking, feeling, and caring people, would know that this bible-reading was not appropriate for a child this age. The fact that this child did such a good job at such a young age only attests to the fact that his parents or guardians helped him with this assignment, instead of asking for a more appropriate one…which is the sadest thing of all to me. They didnt use the sense that God gave them to stand up for their son. Ive experienced that kind of thing over and over in this cult. You’re not taught to think for yourself, just do what you’re told. I would stick to being a rock lover…seems to suit your personality. Hard, Cold, Unfeeling.

  • February 8, 2014 at 1:42 pm
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    It is horrible to see a child perform like this. He doesnt know any better, but his parents should. Im sure they all got praised, which makes the little one swell up with pride, and the parents feel like theyre raising him the right way. They didnt even have the sense to ask for a more appropriate assignment for their child. So sad. They just plug along…not thinking and doing what theyre told. Recently, my daughter was at my Parents anniversary party, and heard my brother in law make the statement that, “If they know who Jehovah is, and that the Trinity’s a false teaching, then I say we dunk em.” It broke my heart to hear that. To a lot of these parents, its a feather in their cap when their child gets baptized. They dont see the bigger picture, or give the child the chance to see any other options, or beliefs. You can judge anything by seeing only 1 viewpoint or opinion. Then, if that child decides later on..when they do get to experience some life, that it isnt really what they believe after all, they lose so much. What a belief system.

    • February 8, 2014 at 4:14 pm
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      Thanks for translating Nicodeme! Merci!

  • February 8, 2014 at 2:19 pm
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    I agree, that this young man is a very good reader. But I also agree, that the subject matter, was inappropriate, for his age and she have been changed. Also as I was watching this little man, stand on that stool, I couldn’t help but to think that he was put in a situation, where he could have fallen and hurt himself.

  • February 8, 2014 at 2:20 pm
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    This video is so upsetting. Not only is this poor baby forced to read about death and rape in a public forum, but no doubt has arrived at this point in his young life after staring at the horrific violent images of “My Book of Bible Stories” at every meeting/assembly/family study. That book alone should be banned for children, but now to perpetrate this “look how amazing my kid is” exploitation on top of that is disgusting. This is the perfect age to mold a child into believing that what they see in books, on TV, or read is REAL. They don’t have the maturity to discern what is the proper perspective on things. They either become desensitized toward violence and victims of violence or become obsessively afraid of becoming victims themselves. This poor little 3-year-old boy has already been robbed of his innocence.

    Too bad not one person in that adoring audience could see the light through the trees. Wicked cult…..

  • February 8, 2014 at 2:27 pm
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    I’m Just speechless. They are Cowards pulling off any comments not in agreement with the video. One sided indoctrinated thought process’s yet again shown through there parrot comments. Statistically speaking this young lad being raised in the Jehovah’s Witness religion will have a 2/3 chance of leaving it when he is older anyway. I just hope it is sooner then later for the benefit of him seeing the real reality of life. Oh seems I got my speech back now lol
    Great Job young Bro! Disgusting pup petering on the part of the parents. No doubt you knew the material in advance and could have asked for a more appropriate assignment. I wonder what this little one will be thinking about his parents when he watch’s this video when he gets older? Just ridiculous!!!!

    P.S While carrying on a adulterous affair with a co-worker our TMS Servant was counseling others on the school for over a year. MMMMMM Jehovah’s spirit anointed directed organization? When they get to the Kingdom Hall the Mask comes on. Again Just Ridiculous!!!!!

  • February 8, 2014 at 5:26 pm
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    I think back to 3 years ago and I honestly don’t think this kid giving this reading would of made me think twice. I can see now how it’s awful having him read that passage. But back in the day I would of been cheering with everyone else. I’m not sure of the psychology behind that, but it’s kinda scary to think about.

  • February 8, 2014 at 8:33 pm
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    Great article John.

    Despite his incredible ability, the subject matter is totally inappropriate for a child that age to hear, let alone read.

    Something else that struck me as terribly sad is that this young boy may never reach his potential while he is JW. I don’t imagine his mental health and education are going to be the priority for this boy’s parents.

    My son has highly asynchronous development, aka highly gifted, which doesn’t just mean he is incredibly smart, he also comes with intense emotions, and sensativities. He’s understanding world issues which he doesn’t have the emotional maturity to deal with and it is vital to his mental health and future wellbeing that whilst allowing him to pursue higher age interests, they have to be in line with his emotional level is which is behind his chronological and cognitive age.

    I can’t see how this could be anything but harmful, depiste his aparent above age level ability. And if he truly has asynchronus development, it will probably be even more harmful.

  • February 8, 2014 at 8:40 pm
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    Sad to say, I watched this video three years ago and teared up thinking it was a sign from Jehovah that I needed to get back on the straight and narrow path and teach my children “the truth”.

    Thankfully, the ‘miracle’ didn’t take, and I shortly thereafter learned TTATT.

    It should be pointed out that it’s amazing a boy that young can read so well. Perhaps he is highly intelligent and will figure it out for himself in time, hopefully before he’s dunked.

  • February 8, 2014 at 10:16 pm
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    Let us see if the tyke can read Ezekiel chapter 23, verse 20.

    [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0nCnS-UJLs]

  • February 8, 2014 at 10:23 pm
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    As Anthony Morris said, the Americans had to throw their tiny pantalone away because of Ezekiel 23:20. and are now non pantalone. Maybe I lost something in translation?

  • February 9, 2014 at 1:59 am
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    If anyone is overreacting here, it is you. You strike me as one of those guys who can start an argument in an empty room. I never questioned whose side you were on – I merely alluded to your pessimism (i.e. glass half empty) in suggesting that active JWs cannot be reached with a well-worded, well-timed and respectful comment. Now you suggest that offering a more reasonable opinion among active JWs is “trolling?” Geez…

    “Look at the loaded language you use: Hijacked. Troll.”

    I know you’re seemingly hell bent on getting a war going, but please re-read my comment. The words “hijacked” and “troll” were not directed at you. It was YOU who made the analogy that the original poster censoring the Facebook post was just the same as me censoring evangelical comments on this site. So I gave you the difference, namely that, unlike a simple Facebook post, I put a LOT of time and effort into JWsurvey and deserve not to let this site be hijacked by trolls with their own evangelical agenda.

    Look at things in context before you go hurling around insults and bringing people’s motives into question please.

    If you’re going to start accusing me of being hypocritical and bitter just for disagreeing you, then by all means find another JW-related site to stir things up on. Would you like to do that?

    “There’s one user you had to apologise to recently but not before you took the high road telling them that you took great offense to what you’d perceived they’d said. You’ve done it again.”

    Yes, that’s the point – and why your attempted comparison with me and Watchtower instantly falls flat – because I WILL apologize if I get the wrong end of the stick. I’m glad you’ve noticed that. But in your case, all I’ve done is disagreed with you and presented my case as to why your pessimistic analogies don’t work and all I get in response is a total escalation with insults being hurled and offense being taken. I think in this instance, judging by your diva-like reaction to my simple disagreement with you, my instincts were right this time.

  • February 9, 2014 at 4:58 am
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    John writes thousands of words per month so he is bound to get the odd thing not quite right. And he always apologies which is very different from the Watchtower writers who very rarely apologise for their mistakes.
    I don’t know anyone apart from JWs who would say it is fine for a 3 year old to stand up and give a talk on a sexual subject or something to do with rape or a hideous murder. You should all be ashamed of yourselves

  • February 9, 2014 at 5:47 am
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    What I see on the “Facebook experience” is the censorship. To me, it’s an indication of fear. The person managing his FB posts failed to prove once again(!) how wrong the apostates are. He “proved” himself by silencing Cedars’ comment. He probably freaked out too, if a “witness” would report this to the elders and after the next meeting the elders would try to “help” him saying “well, can we have a quick talk about that facebook page of yours …”.

    On the other hand, in one of the past articles, Cedars invited someone in a direct discussion, which probably wasn’t accepted because I don’t see any follow up to that. Many people raise questions on the threads towards the JW’s commenting here, which are left unanswered or very poorly answered.

    I don’t recall reading any “apostate” calling someone Judas, or idiot, or comparing to Hitler etc, though I read some such comments from JW’s …

    Obviously, there are opposing opinions which would lead to some extent of friction but there is a clear distinction in style, and in all neutrality, my JW friends don’t shine with their politeness.

    I take each and every bit of article, or different parts of it, individually and take it through my own filter. If I disagree on a particular point, I express my thoughts. In some cases I was even taken for an apologist, and I was challenged to explain this or that, but I was never insulted.

  • February 9, 2014 at 7:39 am
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    jwsurvey.org
    “giving a voice to the silent majority”

    JW’s have no voice, and ex-JW’s who leave and try to speak, are silenced by the JW’s whose minds and lives are still in the grips of the rules of “Jehovah’s organization.”

    Many of the people who visit and post here, have been through a lot of emotional turmoil as a result of the Watchtower Society and their strict policies. Outbursts and overreactions are human nature.

    Cedars, I find your site to be balanced and fair, in most instances. I admire the way you reflect on your own human reactions, and give others the benefit of the doubt when deemed necessary.

    I have compassion for anyone who has left, or is leaving, or even thinking they might someday leave the JW organization. This exit process is going to take a long time. Outbursts and storms are part of the healing process.

    There are worse groups of people to deal with, than ex-JWs! It is a relief to see people treating each other with respect, even when they disagree or misunderstand each other.
    People are fascinating.

    Cedars, you are healing. Thank you for this site, and for sticking with this important cause. The silent majority does need a voice!

  • February 9, 2014 at 7:45 am
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    I also appreciate the posts like this one, that give us a peek into the JW world. It is a relief to see JWs are disobeying the GB and using facebook on their own.

    When small sample situations are exposed (like this facebook thread that is being censored out of paranoia and obedience to the organization), it is enlightening to anyone who dares visit this site. Most people do not realize how far from reality the JW mind really is.

  • February 9, 2014 at 9:10 am
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    “We must praise Jehovah and this child did it”, “Thums up”, “CONGRATS litttle bro”…

    You really can’t beat a JW education can you?

    • February 9, 2014 at 11:05 am
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      You can beat an education from that biased organization in so many ways.

  • February 9, 2014 at 12:16 pm
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    Faithful Witness sums it up:
    “Most people do not realize how far from reality the JW mind really is.”

    Many of us did this stuff and were there shunning and raising kids in strange ways with the rest of them, I know I was. It took me 20 years as an adult to reverse the conditioning I’d been exposed to since a baby. Over those years I experienced knowing something was wrong rationally and yet not able to stop believing it.

    This excellent website amd John’s continual work must be helping others now who are in the same position that I was to move on more quickly.

    Beyond those people needing support what is a successful strategy to stimulate the contented JW’s to start to be reflective? What can work, when they knock at your door, to sow some seeds of doubt in their mind? (Which, if it has been effective, may not be noticeable, and would be different from “winning an argument” with the doorstep JW.)

    LFWMAM

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