A few weeks ago I was contacted by one of a number of active elders who are “awakened” from Watchtower indoctrination, but who must keep up a pretense of being loyal to the organization due to being threatened with shunning.
This elder told me that he had recently attended the special meeting between his circuit overseer and the local body of elders.
Apparently, an unusual topic was brought up towards the end of the discussion involving official instructions on dress and grooming that echoed Tony Morris’ infamous “tight pants” rant at the 2014 US branch visit.
There was little I could do about this story at the time, because it was one anonymous person’s anecdotal account that was impossible to corroborate. Occasionally I have to put a story like this on the back-burner until further details emerge.
But then, to my delight, a bethelite recently approached me with parts of the circuit overseer “outline” featuring the exact material the elder described. Scans of the pertinent parts are below. You will notice that circuit overseers are only to start discussing the material once ministerial servants have been dismissed from their part of the meeting…
Three things stand out about the above instructions to elders. Perhaps most significantly, the guidelines shamelessly discriminate against people who, by their nature, display traits of the opposite sex.
Homosexuality has long been condemned by the organization thanks to various passages from the Bible. But now Watchtower is taking matters one step further. It is not enough to simply refrain from acting on one’s homosexual impulses, which are widely acknowledged to be with someone from childhood rather than being learned behavior, as Watchtower insists.
In the wake of these new guidelines, merely acting in a camp or effeminate way if you are male, or in a tom-boyish way if you are a female, is enough to render you a second-class citizen if you are a Jehovah’s Witness.
This removes arguably the last argument commonly used in defending the organization’s homophobic stance – that it is okay to be gay so long as you don’t act on it. Now a person’s very nature is being brought under scrutiny, and elders now have a free license to inflict misery on any Witness who wrestles with their feelings toward others of their gender even if they are being careful to observe the bible’s prohibitions on homosexuality.
The second, rather obvious point is that sanctioning the kind of clothes someone wears is the very essence of totalitarianism. These latest instructions could have come straight out of a page of George Orwell’s 1984.
Whether someone chooses to wear tight fitting clothes or not, or is inclined to wear their hair in a style reminiscent of the opposite sex, is clearly a personal choice and has nothing whatsoever to do with whether they are a good person or not. Watchtower’s obsession with appearance demonstrates to any reasonable onlooker that the organization is now primarily concerned with the superficial rather than the spiritual – with the earthly rather than the heavenly.
It would be hard to imagine Jesus pulling someone to one side and scolding them because their garments were too “tight fitting,” “revealing” or “highlighted the body.” By contrast, Watchtower is now pursuing such trifling matters with pharasaical fervor, to the point of telling someone they can’t go preaching if they don’t fall in line. (I understand many ex-Witnesses reading this would feel relieved to be banned from the tedious door-to-door work, but let’s remember the mindset of indoctrinated Witnesses, who feel their participation in the ministry is a life-or-death matter.)
It was in 1 Corinthians 4:6 that Paul (whose words are so often quoted in support of Watchtower’s ideas about clothing) is reported to have instructed: “Do not go beyond the things that are written.” It will be difficult for any Witness reading this information to not see that this is precisely what the Governing Body is unashamedly doing – going beyond what is written in the Bible and making up new, arbitrary rules based on nothing more than personal opinion and preference.
For some reason known only to the likes of Tony Morris, the style of dress and grooming that was fashionable in the 1950s is what God has in mind for all Christians if they want to survive Armageddon, and anyone who wears anything more modern and fashionable is treading on thin ice.
This brings me to my third and final observation, which is to note the ease with which Tony Morris’ personal homophobic fixations have translated into official Watchtower policy.
As I noted at the time of his eccentric ramblings at the 2014 U.S. branch visit (see above), the smartest thing for the Governing Body to do in the wake of Tony’s ludicrous performance would have been to eject him from their inner circle. Doing so would have sent a powerful no-nonsense message that the Bible is the organization’s sole authority, and there is no room for egos or personal crusades.
Instead, with the issuing of this circuit overseer outline, the Governing Body has done the opposite. They have shown that either (1) they are easily manipulated by a strong personality, or (2) they have shared Morris’ “metrosexual” concerns all along and just didn’t have the guts to enact laws on the subject until now.
Either way, the evidence that the Governing Body is deluded and completely unworthy of respect or veneration is there for all to see. And as yet more secretive, eyes-only material like the above continues to seep from Watchtower’s increasingly porous walls, we are being treated to a warts-and-all portrait of a backwards bunch of senile, deluded men with nothing left to offer but narrow-mindedness, bigotry, and a doomsday fantasy.
Further reading…
- Tony Morris scapegoats gay people in bizarre child abuse denial rant
- Dear Watchtower, THANK YOU for your “tight pants” copyright complaint!
- Rawstory: Jehovah’s Witness leader promotes child safety cartoon with homophobic rant
- Freethinker: JW chief targets gays in child abuse video
- Pink News: Jehovah’s Witness Leader, “homosexuals” are child abusers
- After his branch visit performance, is “Tight Pants Tony” now a liability for the Governing Body?
- Deluded or dangerous? – My thoughts on Anthony Morris III following his Rome visit
Related video…
The info that only elders are privy to says, “The spirit of the world
is leading people to blur the distinction between the genders as
never before.”
So no changes, no progress, every body has a predetermined
place and must remain in it. Women must be in “Subjection”
( An ugly word akin to domination and slavery ) No human should
be in subjection to another human in, in any way.
It’s the spirit of the world, that they malign, that has liberated
women from being no more than the property of men, to a
position of equality, and the worlds a better place in consequence.
I make no apologies for this, but in my opinion it’s the “spirit of
Religion” all Religion,that’s kept half the worlds population in a
position of inferiority . Let’s have more blurring, I’m all for it.
The day of the dinosaurs is over. It’s not the form of dress that
they’re concerned about, it’s just anything that threatens
their authority,
@Ted- You said “it’s just anything that threatens
their authority.”
That is the answer. They BELIEVE they are truly the only ones that “GOD” speaks through and that anything they say is TRUTH!
Now who is ‘mentally diseased?”
Interesting comments & a lot of the mark, the problem that we will get is that a lot of Elders are old school red necks, particualary here in the country, i know of a few who will love this, we had one elder on the platform make the statement, that a man with a goatee is willing to swing both ways, lucky i missed that one, what a about pinky rings, soemone needs to get into the compound and start taking pictures, what goes on behind closed doors.
Thank you all for your kind comments. I appreciate them very much.
Yesterday I was talking to my son who is thirty five years old and he was sobbing because he was so depressed. I live 120 miles away from him and I wanted to go to him so much and comfort him but I can’t.
My husband was diagnosed with kidney cancer on Friday, which has gone into his lungs and it is a death sentence.
My son loves my husband more than anything but when my son was growing up, my husband was an elder most of the time and my son didn’t have a father figure at all. He was treated badly by most of the boys in our congregation and I was mostly his only friend. He turned to food and gradually it added up and added up. He wants a girl friend so bad but the food wins out as his comfort. He has sleep apnea because of his weight and has a cpap machine to help him sleep but he is always tired.
He loves Jehovah and the “truth” more than anything in the world and if those people in his kingdom hall told him that he was too fat to represent the “truth”, it would literally kill him. That would be the worst thing that could ever happen to him and the thought of somebody doing that to him would make me hate them so much.
He wants to be thin so bad but he is also so depressed because of his weight. People don’t help when they think that making suggestions about how to lose weight is going to help an overweight person. It only adds to their depression.
People like that need to know that they are loved for the person they are, not for the person they are supposed to look like.
It doesn’t take much for a person suffering from depression to end their life. Nobody knows how it feels to be that depressed unless you have been there.
Nobody should be made to feel as if they aren’t as good as anybody else because either they are overweight or effeminate or any other reason.
I have never decided that I didn’t like somebody because of the way they dress or the way they look. I like people because of how nice they are.
If somebody doesn’t like me because they don’t think that I don’t fit the mold of what they think I should look like, then I don’t think that person is worth being my friend. I don’t need people like that in my life and I am happier being around people who accept me for the person I am inside, not outside.
That is the problem I had with the Watchtower Society all my life. They judge people for what they look like and how much money they have and what kind of house they live in and what kind of car they drive. As long as you have money and good clothes, they will like you and that is one of the things that never did sit well with me and I now see it as one of the things that tells me that the Watchtower is not a good religion by any stretch of the imagination and this latest diatribe about what makes a person good enough to go in service, only confirms in my mind what was in the back of my thoughts all those years I was in it. I am so glad I can see it for what it really is now.
More than anything I wished my son could see the “truth” for what it is, but he just won’t. I think if he could see it for what it is, his depression would go away.
One of the reasons he was sobbing yesterday is because it was Saturday morning and he was too “tired” to go in service. He was too tired because of his sleep apnea. He is always tired and my heart aches for him and yes I worry every day about the fact that he is eating himself to death.
That is my life and that is the life of a lot of people and it is so easy to talk about how people shouldn’t eat too much but none of us know what these people are going through and we should never judge people over what they look like or act like. Is the person nice or not? That is the question. Judging people like that who are already suffering from depression. could cause them to commit suicide and that is just one more reason why I hate the Watchtower Society so much because that is the kind of people that the Watchtower Society has turned people into. They think they have the right to judge everybody else except for themselves.
The mental pain stuff like this causes for already emotionally unstable people is unforgivable.
Thank you for saying this Anonymous. There are some here, like me who are feeling exactly the same way. Catalina mentioned the intolerance. That is exactly what this despicable cult are full of.
I do not understand that it is not seen by those who are in it. They need to step outside and see the world with new eyes and then look back and see how evil that great theocractically spiritual and critical world really is. It is doomed but some here cannot see it.
When people hang onto something that is not real and it is trying to destroy them, then I just would so much like them to open up their eyes like your precious son. My son is caught up in it too. I don’t know if he is depressed as he doesn’t tell me a lot. Anyway, let us hope that the spell gets broken soon hey?
Dear anonymous,
Well said, dear Lady, well said.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
anonymous,
I know words, however kind, can’t mend your heartache, but those who care for you share your sadness and wish you comfort and peace. You have been a rock for many of us here. I live in the Midwest. I cannot take away your pain, but I can listen if you’d like to talk about it. You are in my thoughts.
You seem like a very strong person, Anonymous. I think your children and husband are fortunate to have you in their lives. I’m very sorry to hear about your husband’s serious condition. I hope there will be some relief for your suffering in the future, such as, the Org spiraling into insanity in an obvious enough way so that your kids will no longer want to be a part of it. May it happen soon.
I can hear your sadness and I understand…The way we are taught to judge in this organization from a young age is unforgivable…I think that your son is a vvictim and has been driven to the edge by this heartless cult…Im in it and I cant escape because of my fear of losing my family…but my mind has been liberated and I wish your son could have that freedom it would have the most amazing effect on his life…its all we want for our children for them to be the authentic and great person they can be…and be true to themselves in the process…I feel feel feel for you and I cant say how brilliantly you expressed yourself…this site is a gift for us and Im so grateful for its UNCONDITIONAL acceptance….we have not experienced this and its so refreshing….I dont believe in god anymore…some people on this site do…it doesnt matter…I applaud you anonymous whatever you believe…your treading a hard path…and if obes like me thinking of you with sympathy and empathy helps…this site has done its job…to quote excelsior…Peace be with you..
@ anonymous – I was saddened to read your post, yet heartened by your exemplary open hearted approach to life and people around you – all of us who worked for the Borg have done the discriminatory thing (perhaps you never did, if you were wiser than I was), but many of us have lived to have a chance to be different.
You face a difficult time, and no-one knows what it’s like for you, your husband snd son. There’s a good chance you will be stronger than you imagined you could be and that your son, having a warm heart like you do, will find a way out of his predicament. He is the one that can start to take the steps and more so if he experiences bring accepted and trusted to take responsibility for himself. Perhaps some pyscho–therapeutic support might open the door for him. Like a previous post said any life he can build with real relationships outside would help to open up a crack and give him the courage to separate. That said, it needs him to make a small step, then another…
With best wishes and warm kind regards – SwimmingWild
Im wondering what they will be saying when 2033 hits then like a ton of tights and leotards.
Just wondering
I think a lot of my close friends are starting to see the cracks, a lot of people are not that stupid, as to what it will take i don’t know, as i have to hide from them, as to what i really believe, in yesterdays PT, the speaker said we are in the last days of the last days, the fools just lick it up,he should have gone more dramatic, “we are in the last seconds of the last minutes of the last hours, As for the cruelty, maybe its a by product of unhappy people, who are beginning to worry about nothing happeneing, some people are pointing to Obama & Putin as the old king of the north/south thing again, well we did that in the 90’s with clinton, nothing happened
Wip it, I think the best one is when the speaker holds up a pencil and tells you that the very tip of the lead is where we are on Jehovah’s timetable. My first time hearing that one was a longggg time ago. That is some extraordinarily long-lasting lead in that pencil.
@ JB REEZNER. The only place the Wt has lead is in it’s ARSE! lol
Pickled Brain,
When I first started reading the posts on this site, I appreciated the first few of your posts I read. I appreciated them as what I thought were expressions of a frustrated, damaged person that is suffering from post-JW issues. Your sarcastic posts are rarely cogent but I thought perhaps you were just venting and needed to blow off some steam.
Having now read many of your posts, I see little value in what you write. Your letter-case confusion and grammar problems would be easy to overlook if it appeared you were sincere. Are you really trying to communicate something meaningful or do you simply enjoy inserting drivel in between the well-intended posts of others on this forum?
I don’t post often but I do enjoy much of the content. Some of us are using this site to honestly exchange views and enjoy the community feel that has been created here. It would be great if current JWs could see from our posts that we have more to offer than venting venom and nonsense which the org has always associated with apostates. We are thinking, searching, conscientious people and not simply the vitriolic nutcases they have come to expect. Thanks to your posts, we’ll have more difficulty making that case.
I agree with you- so many posts are valuable and helpful but many are just ranting on and bitter which isn’t helpful. So you have to trawl through those and can sometimes miss those of value in the process.
I am trying to drift- or rather have drifted- without bitterness or anger. There are many good things I appreciate about my nearly 60 years as a witness. I believe that is possible – to retain your dignity without resorting to some of the insults that many who post here seem to not be able to resisit.
Maybe Loyd if he reads this can look carefully at what is being said and keep everyone back on track.
Lloyd, Finn, et al- I’m sorry to report, I have found Pickled Brain.
http://www.kxxv.com/story/30294512/local-jehovahs-witnesses-kingdom-hall-attacked-man-arrested
Ok ok I’m joking but I like Pickled Brain’s sense of humor. I get it! ;)
I agree, personally I have a pretty good feel for people and pb wasn’t on my favorite list… I’m only saying this because I feel strongly about his biased comments, especially towards anonymous…
[comment removed – any further similar comments and you will be blocked – final warning]
I am glad to see at least Pickled Brain tried to say something. We do like to hear the old happy Pickled Brain again. We had seen you become more expressive over the last few months and it was good to see. None of us are perfect. We all have our moments. I hope you can join us again soon.
Pickled whatever – back off now please ! You exhibit some frightening psychological aberrations ! I don’t even read what you spew out here for a variety of reasons which have already been mentioned.
I trawl through and ignor pickled brain.
So thankyou Lloyd for this.
This is a very useful site spoiled by these rants.
Is there any news on downsizing in UK?
I know many special pioneers who have retired and are still being kept ‘on the list’ and I am concerned for their future financially.
Thank you.
I feel like my life has been ruined by the organization
I was born in “the truth” I’m a guy 23 years old. My dad was a ministerial servant and my mom was a regular pioneer for many years they are very spiritual. However the problem is I’m gay and nobody knows
For years I thought I could just push those feelings behind me and focus on “serving Jehovah”, but I’m beginning to realize that all I have been taught was a lie. It all started by hearing members of the governing body give those ridiculous and outrageous comments regarding tight pants I believe it was Morris anyways it shocked me because I grew up going to a Spanish congregation so I never heard any of them speak before and it sounded so weird coming from a man that is supposedly “annointed”. And with the child abuse cases piling up, you know 99% of the witnesses ESPECIALLY non-English speaking witnesses are completely clueless and will never believe it or say Satan is behind it. Anyways now I feel so alone and depressed all my life I never had friends not at school (wasn’t allowed) or at the hall all the teenagers at the hall had their clicks and I guess I did not fit in and since my brother was disfellowshipped I was seen as bad association ….whatever
The thing I HATE the most about myself is not going to college since that is REALLY Frowned upon in the congregation because according to them all we need is the theocratic ministry school (which is going away I believe) my parents would not have supported me. But this article just opened my eyes
I read on the young people ask book that if you had homosexual desires it was ok but just not act on it, but now the society thinks they can control people’s behavior if it seems not according to their gender like what?? I’m a guy who you can’t tell I’m gay unless you ask me and I know there are many more like me in those halls so that is ridiculous. Also Watchtower is full of #%* scaring everybody about Armaggeddon, there are evil evil people in this world and to think God is going to destroy me because I’m not in my seat at the Kingdom Hall or because I love another Man? And I also hate the attitude the brothers have if you are young and not a pioneer or a ministerial servant you are looked down upon and they will not hang out with you because you are bad association. Those elders could care less what happens to you even though in their mind they know you will be destroyed…sick
But I love my mother it breaks my heart just to even think about telling her the truth
I’m in deep #%*
Anonymous, I had an uncle who was gay. He was born in 1921. He died at the old age of 92. He was in a long term relationship. I liked my uncle and his mate. They never stopped thinking of me as their little girl. I knew they were gay because my mom told me they were gay. I grew up convensed there is nothing wrong with being gay because of my uncles. I want to give you the good advice my uncle explained to me. He said he never allowed his moral compass to be out of control. He was in two long term relationships during his life time because he out lived his first mate. I have learned to not tell people what I know they can’t handle. People can use info like a weapon. What I mean is it can be hard to be a private person when you are taught to tell everything. Your depression is caused by what you know you will lose. jW friends and family are close conditionally. It’s more important to be respected than liked. Jw mentality lacks in giving respect. If you end up having to let go of what you know replace it with all the good you have learned. Take the good you have learned from the religion with you in your new life. You will be happy once you find a man with your kind of background. Life moves forward. I really don’t believe anyone knows what the afterlife is really like.
Anonymous, I want to add something to what I said. I was so depressed when my family turned their backs on me I went to Kaiser Permanente Psychiatry department for help. Kaiser Permanente is a medical clinic. I’m glad I went. Going there helped me in a huge way. Now I feel normal. It worked. Get the support you need.
Anonymous, you certainly are in a predicament. I am certainly no expert on any of this but even though you feel you are in a unique spot, I am sure you can get some help.
The first thing that I would suggest is to not tell any JW’s how you feel. I mean even your dear mum. You see Anonymous, if you have witnessed the kind of judgmental attitude that has been coming through on this forum, then you find that this is the kind of rebuttal you will get from people in the truth. They will no doubt shoot you down in flames which would be terrible, saying nothing about your self-esteem which would be in the gutter. Don’t tell them anything. They do not need to know.
Meanwhile I would plan my escape if I were you. I know that is a lot to take in but there is no way, you will be accepted by these people if you ‘come out’. Anyway, sounds like you may not be absolutely sure anyway. But whatever your sexuality, I think you need to do what Catalina suggested and get professional help. Secondly, I would try and get some training, or do a course, something where you would be able to help get yourself a good job if it is possible. This might take a while but it is a positive step to your freedom.
And maybe after you’ve sorted yourself out properly and left, then you can tell your mum when you are safely away from the clutches of the Watchtower. That is how I would tackle it. I am not you, and you need to sort yourself out. You sound like a good boy and I do not want to see you a victim of the Watchtower. Play your cards close to your chest and decide what you are going to do. That is what I would suggest anywayand take care.
Anonymous, both Catalina and Meredith J give some great advice re your brave post. I second all they say, and send you one virtual massive hug: well done, you, for knowing your beautiful gay identity! There is power and strength in that self-knowledge. The very best to you on your journey — you’re going to be okay.
Hello, I am here to say that I completely understand you. Or maybe that’s the wrong thing to say, but at least faced my frustrations in a similar manner. There’s this website, I need to look up the exact HTTP address, but just type in A Common Bond on Google and it should be pretty obvious once you are there. It’s a site, similar to this one in the sense of community, for active and in-active witness who are homosexual. I live in Dallas Texas. I hope you live somewhere with people you can trust. Once you read up on the website, which to be honest, doesn’t contain much, but it holds contact information for you to start a small support group in your local state. I hope this serves you well along with others who have yet to discover this tool. Take care
First of all kudos to you for looking for some answers. My advice is to enroll in college ASAP, don’t even care about the comments or “suggestions” you may receive. Find and educate yourself in a career you will love. I’m 51 and didn’t go to college for fear my family (all elders) were told they would be removed if I did, so I succumbed to the pressure and have regretted it my whole life. As to being gay…some of the most moral and kind people I know are gay. Get your education then sit your mom down and have the chat. She will cry and maybe even threaten to disown you but you have to live with yourself and THAT is the most important thing, the ability to live with yourself without any regrets. Take care
Anonymous, the heartbreaking predicament you are in is common, unfortunately. Having family in the Org creates an incredibly difficult situation for the Witnesses who are open-minded enough to realize that it’s simply a cult, lead by heartless fools with blood on their hands.
I hope you make it your goal to find your way out of the clutches of this false religion. It may have to be a long-term goal, depending on your circumstances, but please do have it as a goal– never taking your eyes off of it. Remember, if the happiness of your parents has to be paid for with your own personal misery, that is not fair to you– and it’s too high of a price to ask of anyone.
Your happiness may be out there in the form of a simple disconnection from this life-wasting cult, while you maintain your adherence to the doctrine you were raised to believe that deals with the subject of homosexuality. Or, you may find that your happiness is out there in the form of marriage, or some other type of union, with someone you fall completely in love with.
Either way, continue to be honest with yourself, and choose the path that your heart tells you will lead to real happiness, whatever that path may be.
@Anonymous: I am struggling after my Heart procedure. I was “blue” lighted back to hospital, unable to breathe. Out of circulation for a few days, I doubt you will even see this.
Friend…. I really can help. But, I don’t know how to reach you. I feel so strongly for you it would be wrong of me, NOT to extend my arms of help. They are there for you if you want to try to contact.
The truth is this…ive read alot of ex jws stuff and post and seen videos and ive read about the history of russel and Rutherford. Most ex jws simply put hate law froom what ive seen and heard from their own videos,they taunt,they say bad words they mock they lie of who they are when they go to meetings to the brothers ,and yet alot them seem to claim that they hate lies when they hide who they are at meetings. I am a df person but i always keep it real, i left because i wanted to do everything that was bad and i did follow satans course i felt just like him.remember this fact even tho saul was the king of israel jehovah rejected him but david did no wrong to saul yet were they not jehovahs people even tho saul was king? We shall all render a account to God wether Governing Body member or not remember this fact.
Incomprehensible jibber jabber. I’ve heard “truth” like that before…
>>>I am a df person but i always keep it real, i left because i wanted to do everything that was bad and i did follow satans course i felt just like him.
WOW!! From one attachment to another! So spiritually attached to satan, this you know? Lay on the couch and tell when did it all started?
IMHO
dogstar
It doesn’t seem like you’re keeping up with the goings on of JW.org. Because all of the negative connotations that you attributed to apostates apply to watchtower perfectly.
They lie about who they are ( we are a clean organization). They use bad words in the form of misinformation and hate speech ( apostates are mentally diseased). Oh and did I mention they LIE “all this child abuse stuff is nothing but a bunch of apostate driven lies and dishonesties”
There is a very serious ethical problem in the organization. So, do you believe that God cares more about doctrine than ethics? In order to trust this organization you have to believe that and if you believe that than you are, I’m sorry to say, hypocritical. The witnesses teach people that they “must get out of Babylon the great in order not to share in her sins”, but are unwilling to do that within their/your own religion which in itself has some very serious and damaging problems.
If God deals with people individually than why tell them to leave the religion they’ve known all their life? If you say ” because its false” then you have to explain why and then apply the same principles to your own belief system. Do you see how circular that reasoning is ?
I don’t know which WT “Stirrring” is referring to, but note the highlighted sentence…, pardon?????? Are we living under kingdom rule???? Since when????
Gosh, you have to be careful when you read this stuff. Wasn’t it Goebbels who said if you repeat a lie long enough most people will believe it
Stirring Awake says:
October 16, 2015 at 11:03 pm
The below extract was in this weekends WT study (paragraph 8)
8. The privilege of living under Kingdom rule well worth any effort we make to cooperate with Jehovah’s organization and care for theocratic assignments. Of course, our circumstances may change with the passing of time. For instance, some members of the Bethel family in the United States have been reassigned to the field and are nowenjoying abundant blessings in other forms of the full-time ministry. Because of advancing age or other factors, others who were in the traveling work have now received special pioneer assignments. If we cultivate contentment, pray for God’s help, and do all we can in his service, we will experience joy and will receive many blessings even in these critical last days. (Read Proverbs 10:22.)
Coincidental timing or simply well planned? I think we all know the answer is the latter
That’s a damn slap in the face to all of those who will soon suffer the indignity of being tossed out with no severance package, pension, or social security. But I suppose they shouldn’t worry because their pension is in the “new system”. Meanwhile the gb and their helpers get to live comfortably in their new digs. Oh and lets not forget the vague ” blessings” they’ll get for being “obedient”.
WT August 15, 2015. Study 3 on page 19 – “Prepare Now for Life in the New World”
Just a word in mitigation of PB. He’s mostly encouraging to
other posters, commending them for good comments
and has made many good contributions himself.
It just seems that his practice of taking pot shots at the
WT conductor has spilled over into here and have been
directed at people who don’t deserve them.
Lloyd has been very fair in asking him to cut down on the
confrontational style, and hopes it won’t come to the point
of blocking him. I hope so too.
I think we’re all concerned about getting the balance right
in our comments and this site along with all the contributors
has been a great help in that regard. One thing I hope I’m
learning is, that shooting from the hip without careful thought
accomplishes little and often just offends.
Great post Ted thanks very well reasoned. Don’t we all get daft or hot under the collar at times. You are always a voice of reason and i like to read your wisdom and experience thanks . ruthlee
Low self esteem is a terrible plight to bear. Often when impossible targets are set and failure ensues depression becomes inevitable and the vicious circle continues, add to the cocktail (your so called) imperfection and you have a perfect recipe for mental health issues and suicide.
You try and explain your position and emotions to the Elders, they tell you to study more, do more ministry, not think of yourself and pray more to a God you feel hates you anyhow, the depression will likely worsen, how could you be so selfish?, and it’s the very thing that depressed you in the first place, the cause is not the solution.
Many in the end turn to drink, cigarettes, drugs and/or abandon hope.
That is why sites with free minds are a healing to so many, a voice for the silent indeed.
Many live in fear of the Watchtower, God you can’t even wear a certain type of clothing now, guilt guilt guilt CONTROL from weak minded minds.
I always (personally try) to reason with an indoctrinated mind from the point of view of the indoctrination.
For instance I may ask a simply obvious question or make a gentle point such as, ‘ I’m glad that Armageddon hasn’t come yet, isnt it funny that before it does a delusion is allowed to take place amongst Christians, I wonder what that delusion and ‘the lie’ is? Of course God commends our of love and faithfulness to what is the truth, and we gain commendation and salvation through that, but who are these ones who send out apostle like letters about a presence of Christ and sit down in his temple?
Once questions start freedom follows.
I realise that it sounds easy but questions are the key away from the guilt, fear and control and the above scriptures gives the Christian a legitimate bases to begin to ask whatever questions they want to ask.
Wherever you questions lead you’ll always be free:-)
First, being overweight or smoking isn’t the subject of this article. Some people choose to over eat, some people choose to smoke, some people choose to drink too much, etc. etc. etc. for whatever reason that made them choose that path. Ranting at anyone for this is not going to help at all. Thanks Cedars, for nipping this side argument.
(Now back to out program.) I thought that what was said in the article about Orwellian control was spot on. “Provide loving assistance” is tantamount to browbeat the heck out of them until they shape up and fly right. These WTS leaders are insane!!! They might as well say, “Dress like a lady, but not too much skin dear. Be a man sir, but don’t grow that beard. If you go too far one way or another, we’ll give you a loving adjustment.”
As I have said before, a religion will try to spiritually guide you, but a cult will try to take control of your life in every way. This proves it!
“Those pants are too tight! Report to the back room for reprogramming”.
Of course this is to be done in a spirit of ” mildness”. Guidance in the organization comes in the form of a choke chain that they get to pull when they are bored.
May God have mercy on all your souls … In the name of the Father,Son & ….. Tony Morris!!
@Ted . I am new to this site but what I have read so far your comments seem most knowledgeable , fair & complimentary towards certain ones that post here. I expect you have an intelligent wife who compliments you ?
Toni (oops) Morris. . . Crippled inside, John Lennon.
Yes, I too thought what an amazing coincidence yesterdays Watchtower regarding reassignment of the Bethel family and special pioneers , ” reassigned to the field and now enjoying abundant blessings ” was that code to the congregations for “they’re all yours now, take good care of them for us , please !”
This is getting to be downright FUNNY. :D
Although, I’m surprised they labelled it as “disturbing” rather than “brazen”.
Maybe they’re working their way up to it?
Hi Anonymous,
What I would suggest is take the positive and reject the spin, inconsistencies and downright lies. Accept the promise of a New System for it surely is needed and believe not just in the things that Christ did but the kindly manner in which he did them and always standing up for truth. Accept the real spiritual gems and reject the Talmud of today’s Pharisees. Things are happening today and no one is sure of the reason. It could be that the WTBTS will fall through mismanagement and disillusionment of its followers or maybe, just maybe, Jehovah is tired of the hypocrisy and is really bringing matters to a head. We shall just have to wait and see.
Hope this helps.
Concorde, thank you…encouraging, to me… also note;
Study Edition July 2013 – In which the new FDS arrangement is ‘explained’..
WT July 2013 “Look! I Am With You All the Days” pp 6 -What is the larger fulfillment of Malachi’s prophecy? During the decades leading up to 1914, C. T. Russell and his close associates did a work like that of John the Baptizer. That vital work involved restoring Bible truths. The Bible Students taught the true meaning of Christ’s ransom sacrifice, exposed the hell fire lie, and proclaimed the coming end of the Gentile Times.
WT July 2013 “Feeding Many Through the Hands of a Few” pp 16-
Were the Bible Students in the years that led up to 1914 the appointed channel through which Christ would feed his sheep? No. They were still in the growing season, and the arrangement for a channel to provide spiritual food was still taking shape. The time had not yet come for the weed like imitation Christians to be separated from the true Christian wheat.
WT – July 2013 – “Who Really Is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?”
pp 10 – Throughout the last days, the anointed brothers who make up the faithful slave have served together at headquarters. In recent decades, that slave has been closely identified with the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
pp 12 – In 1919, a time of spiritual revival, Jesus selected capable anointed brothers from among them to be the faithful and discreet slave and appointed them over his domestics.
So this clearly states;
1) CT Russell and associates were NOT FDS –
2) Current self identification as FDS aligns with
Rutherfords teachings..
Why throw Russell ‘under the bus’? Answer;
WT – July 2013 – “Who Really Is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?” box -“IF EVER THAT EVIL SLAVE . .”
“Was Jesus foretelling that there would be an evil slave class in the last days? (WT answer) No.”
However further reading clearly shows..
There is an evil slave – same as the weeds among the wheat..
The ‘evil slave’ is clearly identified in the same context of Jesus following parallel illustrations in MT 25 -of ‘Five Foolish Virgins-who had no ‘oil’- integrity to truth. ‘Wicked and sluggish slave who received one talent’ – blamed others i.e. autocratic- ‘Goats’ “Lord when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to you?” – Self explanatory – Adv. Adv. Adv. – bring in the $- don’t help ‘worldly’ people in a practical way, they just need the Kingdom Massage.
All align with the current autocratic, self exulting, self serving ‘Talmud of Pharisees today’ – (Thank you -Concorde-) that grew out of the FACT that
Jesus could not have cleansed and appointed a FDS in 1919, as this would have been a conspiracy to further the false teachings/prophecies of Rutherford and assoc. – 1925, etc.
Also the facts show a fulfillment of 24:48,49 – “But if ever that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying; and he starts to beat his fellow slaves and to eat and drink with the CONFIRMED DRUNKARDS…
Too much evidence of drunkards among the ‘elite’ to mention here. Beat his fellow slaves..that’s why we’re all here. (FDS = Beat les in tight pants?)
I enjoyed Concorde’s positive and hopeful outlook, perhaps this helps others see how the current FDS is fulfilling an evil and ultimately self destructive course. (by their own twisted ‘dogmata’). Weeds among the Wheat.
I have not read all of the comments in this section and I apologize if I am reiterating what may have already been said, but it appears to me that this is yet another licence for the elders to police the congregation and single out anyone who does not fit in with “their” interpretation of how one should dress and groom themselves.
The very scary part is that with this new “rule” the elders can pretty much cast away and castigate anyone they don’t particularly like and use their dress and grooming as an excuse.
Woman’s hair too closely cropped?
Man’s pants just a little too tight?
Woman’s dress just a little too short or too tight or maybe a little cleavage showing?
Man’s haircut? Is it to trendy?
How much more tyrannical can this religion get? How much mind control, and control of everything that a person can say or do can individuals suffer until they say “enough is enough”.
I guess they should call this the “cloning religion”, everybody dresses, talks and acts the same. Or else!
Never thought of it, but you are right! The elders now have a ‘golden ticket’ to get rid of any undesirable they can by just labeling a man ‘too effeminate’ or a woman ‘too masculine’ or ‘too risqué’. An unscrupulous or power-drunk elder can ‘readjust’ or call judicial committee on anyone they don’t see as within their standards of being part of the organization. Not to mention some elder that feels bent to put people in what he feels is the right place, based on looks alone. This is scary for those that are still inside. Just like the case with rounding up fading members.
Again, this proves the cult mentality that surrounds the WTBTS. All the members trying to portray the leader. In this case GB members. The ones who don’t will get an whoopin’ until they do.
Anonymous- I served as an elder for decades in a few Spanish speaking congregations, I truly feel for you – Please remember that your mom is in a cult, she is a victim of its Bible obliterating brainwashing. Focus on Christ message of love and do your best to buid others up in Christ, your sexual inclination is something you were born with, which God himself allowed. Don’t get sidetracked by people who use scripture to push their homophobic agenda. Jesus did not teach hate, in any way whatsoever, the only time he showed anything close to it was on those people who thought themselves holy enough to be judges of men. It would be great if all of us could stick to every last detail of scripture to perfection, but that simply isn’t a reality. I might not be Gay, which the bible asks us not to act on, but I do commit many other things it also forbids and still find my self loved by the Christ. You’ll know when the right time to tell your mother will come. Have your family worship night focus on Christ love and how he understood those who sinned and couldn’t help themselves, he in his heavenly wisdom knew more about the human heart than the sinful hipocrites that surrounded him. Stay in touch with your creator remember that the only times in the Bible when he acted in a manner that is perceived as homophobic is when mass rapes and tragedies were involved. He struck down many a people for numerous reasons before Christ arrival, in 1 Kings we read of a prophet servant of God who was instructed by God himself not to return from where he came from. Along his route he came along a man who claimed to be a messenger of God with a contradicting message to that which he recieved from God himself. Stupidly this first prophet accepted this human messengers words as something that overrode Gods instructions, as a result he was struck down eaten by a lion. Now there is a lot in that story which can cause us a case of culture schock, but the message is that if any man or men (GB) comes along and tells you to ignore what God tells you in his word and that they have the real instruction from God, RUN!
Deutoronomy 18:18-22
Proverbs 30:5,6
Revelation 22:18-23
Do not live in fear of being destroyed, if you still accept Christ in your heart and live with the love he tought you, you’ll be ok. Remember Mathew 25 says he himself has been deputized to pick out the meek from humanity. As long as you are truly trying, you cannot outsin Gods love.
Robert67
Hi I agree with what you say, I have left the JWs after a long time. I have had a very colourful life in more ways than I care to mention.
I thought where do I go now, to whom do I turn. Well, no one is my answer. That is no man made organisation. I still believe that there is a God and his son and try to keep my life simple and honest this I find keeps my wife and myself happy.
Enjoyed your comments, thank you
Eric
Thanks Ruthlee for your kind words, they are much appreciated.
And M,B, welcome, you’re among friends here. The formats
different but the literary style is reminiscent of another regular
contributor to this site. A close relative perhaps ?
@Ted. Thank you for your kind comments. I have many close relatives… Something I have been blessed with !
I don’t know, this new posters excessive use of lower case letters is very suspect. Obviously a mole. We know your in there Tony. Is all this payback against all those young Bethelites involved in Happygate?
@Robert67… Thank you for being so observant. I do admire observant people.& I absolutely adore lower case letters.!
That’s it, I’m running to go tell the elders and get a Sparlock stamp on my service report.
@Robert67 .. I hear that a caleb & sophia stamp is of much higher value!
@Actigail Ur. You are a very very astute person my friend . You have a deep understanding of satirical humour. May I congratulate you ? As I am new to this site I am realising there are quite a few really nice people here & seem very friendly .You seemed to be quite supportive of a strange character called PB ? Some people didn’t seem to get his sense of humour? But you did . He seemed to be stimulate strong feelings in people but never a dull moment!
Life is about pushing people’s mind but also the heart sometimes to face controversial subjects especially when it is personal & contemplate opposing sides of the opinion?
I have read some of your comments which I don’t always agree with , but you are a fair,decent person & I do like the way you push boundaries & stimulate thinking!
I dont use caps as a rule of option and choice..i do cap occasional words for emphasise..or when my cellphone caps words all of its own volition..
And im not a mole
Just saying
;)
Dear Scotwm and all others interested.
I have read so many articles over the years where the Watchtower has aimed to reduce the numbers of the ones professing to be of the annointed, because the dwindling numbers was seen as proof as the end was near. I probably will not read the latest attempt of that. But does anyone know how many partook of the emblems this year?
Thank you all.
I have been trying to research that very question!
I think we will not know until the 2016 yearbook is released- but my prediction is that before too long we will not be told the numbers of partakers and some lame reason will be given- the latest WT on this subject I think is leaving the way for this to happen.
In that WT it is said that those anointed absolutely know without a doubt that they have the heavenly calling but in another paragraph it says they may have a gradual realisation.
So which is it?
As far as I am concerned there were about 8000 partakers for years and years and years and then suddenly it went up.
Once they realize it, it’s sudden. It may take years and years to realize it though, because the Holy Spirit sometimes only is operating on very low voltage, say 6 volts, but when your on g.b. it’s up around 440 volts and 3 phase at.that….sometimes when a person is first called they may confuse there calling with the silent feature of their cell phone or perhaps the humming of florescent light bulbs, but eventually when you see Kings and Queens you think, nope that’s me, I need a.crown too.
And……you can understand what an over lapping generation is…most non-anointed cannot grasp that deep spiritual concept. Furthermore you realize that it’s impossible for you to lie, because every thing you say is the “truth” even if the facts seem to dispute that.
Hope that answers some of your questions.
By the way the numbers are for “professed ” anointed, there are only 7 anointed that matter, the rest just wannabes.
One more comment on this,
truly anointed ones don’t like earthly things, like picking up dog poop, doing dishes or laundry, shoveling dirt, vacuuming carpets, changing diapers, ect….Earthly things, wearing crowns, passing judgment, being condescending…that’s more like it.
Your right about the anointed not liking earthly things but that doesn’t explain why geoffrey jackson got remarried to a sister 25 years his junior…. Anyway my devout husband read in the january wt that it was no longer necessary to be of the anointed to be part of the governing body. Glad they cleared that up. I’m thinking about applying for the job now. :)
I have not seen that, will check that out immediately, however, let me get this stright. .first, f.s.and little flock not the same, now f.s. no longer anointed bride of Christ ? I think we’re angling for “new” evil slave class
Just checked it out, paragraph 16 of study article “we will go with you” or something to that affect. It’s pretty clear that the men who call themselves the faithful slave believe that they’re indeed Christ’s brothers and while there’s little confidence that the sister in your hall that partakes is in fact really of the anointed class, we have absolutely no reason to question them.
@JKL .. 14,121 took emblems last year.
We think alike Sister Drifter UK. I think I have noticed that the number is made public later and later every year. Now, I am not sure any longer if it fits with their interpretation that the their should be zero annointed at D-day, but it sure sounds like it with the latest article on the subject. But this is sure, counting the annointed in an effort to count down to the end, has failed.
I am wondering if the numbers will go up every year until we reach 144000 and then the end will come.
Well if even .05% of the estimate of Christian Martyrs is correct the goose is cooked
http://www.christiantoday.com/article/70.million.christians.martyred.faith.since.jesus.walked.earth/38403.htm
@Robert67 .. July 1951 watchtower stated in 96 C.E. That 40,000 Anointed Christians were slaughtered by Emperor Domitian … In the Proclaimers book over 52,000 were taking emblems in 1935 & there are 14,121 in 2014 partook . In the book of Acts 3000 were baptised in one day & 5000 another day. Plus in the First Century if according to Watchtower figures maybe thousands of Anointed Christians were slaughtered by Emperor Nero in 65 C.E & in 98 C.E the Apostle John was on Patmos & there were Tens of thousands of Christians expanding throughout whole of Europe & Asia Minor then the numbers exceed greatly way over 144,000 so the figure cannot be literal. A 92 year old Anointed Elder who used to cook me lunch when I was pioneering many years ago & was imprisoned in a British prison in 1914 showed me what Russell believed in the 1917 Finished Mystery Book & that the Great Crowd were going to heaven!!
All the GB know the figures don’t add up & 8 million JWs are being ripped off .. big time !
Great points, I would add that Russel emphazised the annointed were all complete by 1881. Unless these 7 wonders in Brooklyn are ancient Scottish sword wielding Highlanders fighting until there can only be one, I don’t see how they made that cut off date.
You forgot to add the overlap to the equation. When you do that no more problem, you see it’s 144000 overlapping each other so it might be 288,000 or 566,000 get the picture
Seriously, if 24 Elders =144,ooo, then why laugh
I, for one, am thankful for Tony’s original tight pants tirade and the subsequent fallout. It’s caused a lot of JWs to snap out of their trance. I know because they tell me so. I’m fading away from the organization little by little, and trying to help others who are going through the same process, just as I’ve been helped. Tony’s comments, and this new C.O. letter, are a ‘fly on the wall’ glance at the twisted thinking of the GB. I’m so glad I’m not under their mind control anymore.
As the Bible instructs us at Psalms 49:13: “This is the way of the stupid ones And of those who follow them, who take pleasure in their empty words. (Selah)”
We have to remember that people do follow these stupid ones on a daily basis. The Jehovah’s Witnesses love to hear the empty words of Anthony Morris III.
I have long said: the higher up the JW ladder you go; the more stupid the individual gets.
Stupid is as stupid does.
@ Donald duck, Sister drifter , Joe smith,Finn sawyer… Apologies to anyone I missed.Enjoyed reading your comments about that awful character .. what was his name?? Brainy or pickled or some weird name like that … glad you piled in one after the other to make your comments so obvious how you felt.I have just read some of his terrible comments !! I am so so shocked at what some people say sometimes! Things are getting worse ; it must be the last days of this wicked system ;you know people being fierce , headstrong ; puffed up with pride ; disloyal? ; lovers of money.etc
Well… Keep up the fine upbuilding comments.
@Robert67 … Yes you are right that Russell did say all the anointed were collected by 1881 in one of his earlier Volumes of The Studies in the Scriptures .
I remember having long conversations with this 92 year old Anointed brother who cooked me lunch every week as I was the only one in my congregation Regular pioneering in those days.. I remember doing 13 hour days in the snow on a Saturday as the hour requirement was 90 hours back in 1981 . Ice on the inside of the windows of my bedsit but what toughened me up was my Karate teachers training years before I came into truth ;the 5 mile runs in bare feet on pavement & constant honing the body to endure bouts of combat so Regular pioneering was a doddle!
Today it is so easy standing by a trolley as some of the pioneers do for 8 hours a day drinking coffee!!
Lloyd, it appears that some prolific posters cannot take a hint. I suggest that if anyone, under any name, continues to try and make themselves the center of attention, they should be blocked.
I truly hope that my enslaved relatives (daughters, sisters, and over 100 close relatives) have found your wonderful blogs. It is tedious to read through many of these superfluous, snarky and simply not funny posts, all in the name of seeking attention.
Get rid of anyone who subverts the conversation away from why we are all here. This should not be used as a private chat forum.
@Robert67 @Sister drifter UK @’B et al
I realise this is a side comment to your discussion of the 144,000, but your link to the 70 million Christian martyrs need some comment
Christianity is an extremely unpleasant organised religion, yet it likes to portray itself as subject to martyrdom, as victims. When the Roman Empire moved towards Christianity the blood really started to flow, and, the following link asserts, continued flowing for 1000 years.
http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/DarkAges.htm
Monty Python sums it up in Burn the Witch
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sglyFwTjfDU
Tight Pants’ disregard of the common humanity amongst the flock is on the same spectrum as the persecution meted out by Christians to pagans snd heretics over the centuries. And still now in Africa.
“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” Steven Weinberg
SwimmingWild
@ Swimming wild .. Burn the witch … Aha .. Monty Python fan you must have a sense of humour like that wicked poster I have heard so much about ? what was his name ? …. brainy pickle or some crazy name like that .. some strange people out there?
Enjoy your comments … A thoughtful person indeed & I mean that !
http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/DarkAges.htm
A Terrible Repression
“As soon as Constantine gave official recognition as a religion, the Church started to harass both Christians and non-Christians who were not in agreement with her ideas.
“Such behaviour became a tradition. It lasted and progressed for more than a thousand years… The apex of her intolerance eventually became epitomized by the Inquisition. This latter, in the Spanish Inquisition, terrorized the whole of Europe for more than five centuries.
“Her claim of being the ONLY holder of TRUTH, the fountain spring of her historic intolerance, has never been revoked by her. She has maintained it with ever increasing resolution and ferocity until our own days. All her past actions bespeak of the constancy of such immutable intolerance. Since the fourth century C.E. her conduct has been patterned on nothing else.” (from The Vatican’s Holocaust)
The monks had unlimited powers and these inquisitors swarmed all over Europe like theological hornets, setting up tribunals wherever they appeared. For centuries all hopes and dreams died; people were in utter despair of life – religious controls were everywhere.
Fear and uncertainty ruled people’s lives -fear of the Canus Dominii (Dominican Monks) and the Franciscan Monks accompanied by their “Jacks” – the men who did the torture with benches, ropes and iron hooks, ceiling hooks, rough iron implements and fire.
SwimmingWild
Boy, and I thought those were the good old days. Back when people had real morals and there was real peace and nobody got sick, you know , before 1914
Are you sure you got your history right?
The problem being the word “religion”, which the Bible never mentions. Jesus did not teach a religion, he tought “the way” to live our lives in a manner that showed love foremost to our creator, but also to our fellow man. Anything added to his teachings is blasphemy. He tought his disciples to present the good news of this message of love and atonement with God through Christ, if a person refused they were instructed to shake off their sandals and move on. Nothing in there about return visits, forced conversions, crusades etc… Everyone here is shaking off the results of placing first the instructions of religious leaders over those of the Christ in their lives.
‘No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
@JJ … I have looked back at the posts regarding the awful things this poster called brainy pickle said…
You JJ ..I really have only great admiration for and your strength of character in your supportive post about being overweight’for this strange character ‘PB ‘ ..
If I had to fight any physical battles I know you are a person I would know I could trust & fight to the bitter end !
I am a relative of this PB & he has asked me to send you his eternal thanks & much gratitude.
I don’t know how old you are or even what gender but that is irrelevant as it is your inner strength I am impressed with.
Sincere thanks
Mashed brain
@ Ruth Lee,@’Tara&@ Shanti … you lovely ladies … You have also impressed ‘PB’ in your attitude & character … He just text me from his phone ?to let me know !!
@ Garrett ! I Really like your sense of humour! You make me laugh ! Fat zombies or what ! Great comments by you
& @ Last of all if not least @ JB Reezner .
You were trying to keep the peace on all sides… I can appreciate that … Not an easy task when this strange character whatsisname ?? … Nutty pickle or something is letting loose with both barrels !… You did well !!
Thank you both & anyone else I forgot !
& Thanks to @ Cedars as he gave PB quite a bit of Time & many posts to run loose before stepping in which was quite generous considering PB did run riot for a long long time & the guidelines were flagrantly pushed to their limits???
I think that is most of the text I received from PB ?
I actually missed all the excitement, but don’t think an apology can get p.b. off that easily, nope I am sending over the meanest 3 man committee you’ve ever seen, they have a crisp new “shepherding ” book, unopened in fact. And a “disfellowshipping” s-77 already filled in. Forget about any 7 day appeal process, no way! Signed brother Love
@Pow .. Ohhh… Goody .. That S77 form … About time PB got one of them … It will make a full set .., to go along with the disassociated P45 form ( UK residents will know this)!!
@Pow … PB has just requested for the 3 man committee…. Excelsior, Finn Sawyer & Donald Duck with Joe Smith as back up with Sister Drifter uk for Coffee making???
PB thinks he is going to Lose the case as I (Mashed brain ) has used too many Capitals in this post???
Just remember no recoding devices allowed, this is strictly off the record.
Mashed Brain/Pickled Brain
Really? A member of a Judicial Committe?
I am not offended by bad comedy, but I reserve the right not to have to laugh.
I think that you have rightly been taken to task over your rant about weight and instead of apologising like an adult, you have attempted a feeble stab at comedy with a pathetic alter ego.
Please learn from this experience, Mr Brain.
I do not find judicial committees particularly amusing. I had to experience one myself, and I would never engage of support one in any way.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
So let me get this straight, the congregation is 100% against people looking gay, and now even against those who confess to being gay “but not acting on it”?
However, somehow, people who like to have sex with defenseless children are put on “reproof” only to be moved to another congregation so that they can commit their disgusting crime again? Is this really the place my beautiful mom should be? A person who is so kind and gentle and who wants to live forever on a paradise earth. A person who cried her heart out because I told her finally at the ripe old age of 47 years that I will never set my foot into another Hall. A person who begs me everyday to speak to the elders, the same ones I see at the bar and the liquor store on a regular. Their troubles seem heavier than mine at times. I can’t help to think it is because they know that something just ain’t right about this organization anymore. I want to wake my mom up to see these atrocities, but her life was so hard as a teenager, and she is a victim to the lies and misguidance. I will never forgive this organization for being Apostates and actually having the nerve to say that everyone else are Apostates. It is so sad! So disgustingly sinful to stumble people on their path to having a relationship with God, with their MESS!
@michele.. Your comment is excellent & especially your logical argumentation of the hypocrisy the way the jw organisation handles child abuse.
@ Many weight commenters
Overweight?
Understood, sadness and depression can change a persons habits and where or who they go to for comfort. While most of us recognize this as a fact, the Bible makes no room or exception for these things. It was written to preserve the best foods for the priests and the Kings. Over eating in any form would necessarily be charged as a sin worthy of capital punishment. Look at North Korea and it’s leadership, the people struggle for a bowl of rice while their “Dear Leader” eats buffets that would make Las Vegas blush. The people live in darkness and information control.
I recognize the limit of my view and my personal scope on things, however it must be stated that their is rampant prejudice in the organization that is acceptable, homosexuality, hairstyles, clothing (tight pants etc.) while the issue of gluttony is totally ignored. I do not agree with disfellowshipping anyone, however to categorize in any way obesity as special and needing understood requires that homosexuality be understood and consideration given to those who are gay or who wear clothing styles we may not like. I am heterosexual, but I do not feel it is ok to judge someone who is gay or to make decisions as to what any couple practices in their bedrooms, however Watchtower does.
For those who suffer, no one agrees with their torment. However I must admit I have both situations in my family. One of extreme obesity due to sadness and the other due to greed. One who suffers depression and being very overweight. Her situation is heart wrenching and deserves love and help. The other is selfish and greedy even abusing his wife and greedily eating more than his share on almost every occasion he is with someone, bragging about how he always gets his. He has ate so much on occasions to receive T-shirts and free meals for gluttony. For me his a pig. Someone may try to find an excuse for this situation, but greed is greed and in all forms an ill to society. Sadness and depression are far different from greed and we should open our hearts to those who suffer in this way.
If you are a Christian consider this one thing. The Bible makes no distinction saying, a person who eats too much is ok if he is depressed, or being gay is ok because you feel depressed or some other reason. The Bible fully endorses intolerance and bigotry. I made a comment earlier in the discussion that I hoped would open people’s eyes to this fact.
Am I flawed? Yes! Does that stop me from trying to make the world a better place? NO!! I once believed that to do good I had to share the Bible with others. It was and sometimes still is painful to realize the Bible does not provide solutions, it provides problems. It’s proposed wisdom, in fact provides only confusion and hatred of what is different than the arbitrary rules it provides. The Bible even goes so far as to claim it alone is a source of light. The Bible is the problem with its dogma and unfounded supernatural claims. It will naturally attract egomaniacs and controlling fanatics. It’s Curator Constantine was a bloodthirsty murderer who sought to realign Europe with this monotheistic book. Creating a 2 party system of Church and state. With the church promising what it could never deliver, an after life. Allowing the state to require people to give their life at the demand of the King for whatever he saw fit. Has anything really changed? Different day same garbage.
JWs having self a righteous power hungry GB member, Tony Morris is no surprise. Quite the opposite, it is to be expected.
Right now most of us enjoy something that has led to a better world, free speech. The ability to speak our ideas and be heard. The right to disagree and agree. By challenging bad ideas we come up with new and better ideas. In the end JWs do not have that freedom. How tragic!
In the end, the only real hero in this world is the one who knows their is no payment of after life and still chooses to give their life in service of a better future for all.
Im not overweight
Depressed yes
Overweight no..i dont consider size 8 on a 5’10” frame overweight
Just saying
Will you guys please shut up about weight. I’m so tired of it. You guys go on and on and on and on and on and on and on about it. Enough already we all get the point. Shut up about it already. God damn it you guys.
Most of you guys have nothing to offer me. I’m no longer reading any posts. Most here are shallow. Goodby.
Come back walter and say something to put the nanas back on track please. ruthlee
@tiger123 . You have really,really thought your points through so clearly & so succinctly that the logic of your reasoning is brilliant…, absolutely brilliant !
My relative …. brainy pickle ??… has advised me to leave my comment at that ; apparently … ‘discretion is the better part of valour !! ‘
You mention North Korea and as Steve Hassan points out, that is the region where the C.I.A perfected the art of brainwashing through religion after WWll, which he goes more into detail on different podcast. Coinsidently about the same time the Watchtower started implementing its outright cult control and the beginning of shunning within the Jehovahs Witnesses which was once described in their literature as an ancient evil Pagan practice. The writing is on the wall Daniel chapter 5, this organization is being exposed for its outright arrogance against Gods word.
I am aware that we went way of the topic discussing the Watchtower 144.000 doctrine. Perhaps someone will write an article, because so much “wild speculation” has gone into it. I personally do not think that anyone will go to heaven, but I am sad that Watchtower for years has pressured others to think they are not of the annointed.
Well, when anyone gets to know how many professed to be JW annointed in 2015, then please post it. Perhaps an insider in Brooklyn knows.
@Ted … I have looked over prior comments when a few others were sticking the knife into Brainy pickles back ,but you Ted made some complimentary comments about PB at that time when many were jumping on the bandwagon … You shone out as a beacon of restraint& were reasonable so a Big Thank you for that… That is the text I just received from PB ???
This fat discussion is to me one thing that has to be targeted. ( yes we must take ilness and depression into consideration, and then sufficiant help and support should be given amongst congregation friends and also direct to proper help) but now its ignored and thats not right.
But also eating crap food like Mc Donalds, products filled with E- numbers, sugerfilled bread, soft drinks, and sweet candy by the bags. You dont have to be fat to treat your body wrong and not like a tempel.
What do we think makes the worst harm to the body, one cigarr each half year or this shit everyday? Cancer is spreading like wild fire and most people just dont put the food puzzle together. But if one get caught with puffing on one cigarr every 6 months its goodbye, but you can have a big stomach so the jacket cant close and feed children poison at a daily basis. ( yes it is proper poison).
These issues have not been talked about more than a article maybe to say that its important to exercise. Put pointing fingers at easy areas like smoking , drinking, etc. are repeated to death. Yes if its done to excess we have a problem , given. But no, its also the everyday choices that a bigger concern. But that flyes under the radar.
Comment to JKL i posted earlier that we need an article on 144,000 to thrash this out because I really really really (no capitals) think gb have this concept totally wrong and i want to hear others point of view. If we all ask Cedars and team to consider this as that infamous wtower 2016 need some serious addressing.As i have said before they have to keep the punters in so i think they will announce any can call themselves anointed not just the greedy elite or the nutters! Time will tell but this i think is probably the hottest topic to all thinking christians and i would love the athiest take on it too because in my experience athiests are the most logical of all of us. Anyway thats it. Hello mashed pickles hope you continue to join our merry band. ruthlee
@Ruth lee . Thank you Ruth for welcoming Mashed pickles to this site . Fascinating group of people here ? … All sorts.. Different personalities makes for a lively? discussion . I must say it was capital??? of you to be so welcoming!!!
As sick of talking about obesity as some are, I think it is very germane to the topic of this discussion and I will say why.
If the Society is going to pick out people to disgrace them by telling them that they are not fit to represent the Society in service to God, they do need to take a look at themselves in the mirror. Being obese is only about thirty pounds overweight and yes Pickled Brain, it is just as dangerous to your health as smoking. We all know that.
The problem is hypocrisy, not the rank and file but those making that decision for the rank and file.
What business do those overweight men who are judging for God decide that somebody who is maybe effeminate in nature or masculine acting in nature, not good enough to represent the Society? They are just as much guilty as those they are judging if they just thirty pounds overweight?
It is the hypocrisy of the whole thing that makes it so unforgivable.
You will have men who are fifty pounds overweight on a committee, deciding that a man or a woman or a young girl or young boy is not “fit” to go in service for those stupid reasons that the Governing Body has in the letter that Lloyd has above, possibly destroying their self esteem for the rest of their life but they walk away feeling self-righteous.
What this letter points out is how stupid the Governing Body is. I know a woman who has acted “butch” her whole life and she is the sister of the presiding overseer and she loves Jehovah. She is about 75 years old. Will her brother tell her that now she has to start acting like a lady now or can’t go in service? I think not. But he can turn right around and destroy a young person’s self esteem for the rest of their life by telling that person the same thing.
I hope that any elder who has this letter read to them can see how inquisitional it really is and wake them up to the reality of what they are involved in.
@Anonymous… Nice that you mentioned this strange character Pickle brain in your comment…. He seems to have made a minor ? impact on this topic .. Hmm !!
As a former pos Elder I can tell you that while your holding the golden ticket of being the plantation territory overseer you are mostly blind to common sence. The only thing that shook me awake was knowing by heart what Gods word was on any given matter. I believe that all of these elders who ignore Gods word and give it a second place to instructions from the 7 Sith Lords in Brooklyn will be dealt with by God himself. “I was just following instructions, they made no sence, they were soul crushing, faith killing, unchristian, cruel and outright sadistic, but, but, but, but, but, but, but………”
@Anonymous: Here is the U.K. it is popular to refer to your B.M.I (Body Mass Index). According to my diabetic consultant… for my height (176cms) I should be 120lbs- max 160lbs (11st 7lbs [avoirdupoid])
I managed to lose a lot of weight, but at 13stones (182 lbs), my colleagues said I was looking so gaunt and ill, I looked as I had final stage cancer.
Two very important elements are missed in assessing someone’s ideal weight. Some (including the consultant I referred to), do not believe in low Basal Metabolic Rates. In which case, why do we have Mesomorphs, Ectomorphs and Endomorphs. Honey, I only have to look at item 52 on the Chinese menu and wake up with the same waist size!
The other major element is Bone Density. Every wondered why certain racial extractions excel in specific sports? One of my tutors at University wrote a fascinating article on the subject for the Atlanta Olympics some years back now. For Example: Caucasians with a bone density index of 1.0 with glide through water like a dolphin. Asian extraction at 0.8 on the index, tend to float out of the water and Afro. Caribbeans, at 1.2 tend to sink naturally down into it.
Put an Asian on the horse and bars in gymnastics, and see beauty in motion… put a Jamaican or Kenya on the running track and the stamina just surges ahead.
I come from “Boxing” stock, when honed and fit, look like a Bouncer at the local night club. I have been known to separate a sea of black suited, dark shaded heavies with my (R.I.P) 110lb, mum on elbow.
Tony “tight pants” would split his crotch stitch if he saw me in Field Service now.
My ripples sent out other messages….and, the ripples themselves were totally natural.
Just a word on overeating though… calories in versus calories out. If you aren’t burning it off, it is going to store.. and, that is not good for the health, Tony.
Hi Gem, I am five foot four inches and my ideal weight is between 120 pounds and 135 pounds. If I get to 165 pounds, or about 30 pounds overweight, I would be considered obese. That is not my words but the medical community. They consider it as more likely for heart disease etc. So, my point is, is that it is hypocritical of the Society to someone that they can’t smoke because it’s dangerous to their health and yet be obese themselves.
The same thing goes for telling somebody that they aren’t good enough to represent the Society in service for some reason like they are flamboyant or butch. They should not judge unless they are willing to be judged. It is what it does to the person who is being judged is what bothers me so much. What is that going to do to them after that? Most kids feel labeled for the rest of their life when it only takes one mean comment from another child, let alone from an adult.
It is not safe for a human to not have any body fat. If my body had no fat according to the charts, I would weigh about 90 pounds, which is ridiculous. All it would take is for me to be sick a week and I could die because my body would start eating up my vital organs to stay alive.
What I think is so disturbing about this whole thing is the hypocrisy. They have no compunction about destroying someone’s self esteem and walk away feeling like they are pleasing God, which couldn’t be further from the truth.
@Gem .. Knowledgeable comment Gem . Good analysis of the situation ! .. Especially your last sentence . … Not that I am an expert on this topic?
As you know a bit about the Noble art of boxing I found when I fought an opponent you would look into their eyes & you could either see fear,anger,coolness,determination, bravery,etc … The eyes reveal a lot about a persons character & emotions … Very hard to hide that.
But here on the internet we cannot see a persons eyes so PB told me the way to reveal a true persons character here is to use different tactics that seems accusatory,aggressive even & like in martial arts,boxing etc you will see how & in what manner they reply will show the true character of an individual .Then you see who your true friends are or who are more balanced.
PB is a student of MI5 tactics & avid reader of John Le Carre spy novels where tactics & emotions & the way the mind works are just or even more important than physical attributes as you will testify as a boxer … Not always the biggest & strongest will win.
You are a thoughtful person & give good comments .Keep up the good analysis!
@Mashedbrain: Sawadee krap, Sir! It is all in the mind. Even the GB knows that, as they languish to hold control. Your thoughts are on point.
Thank you Gem!!
Reading spy novels? Really? A student of MI5 tactics? Oh dear!
How about reading some books on common courtesy, addictions and other topics?
I do not wish some ridiculous individual twisting my psychological buttons, thank you. How utterly ridiculous!
It’s quite easy to tell if someone is on the up and up. Read their comments over time, and you will see roughly where they come from. No rudeness required! Further, you can engage in a polite debate with them! Again, no rudeness required!
Pretending that your rudeness was a cunning ploy reeks of desperation to me.
anonymous is one of my favourite posters here. She has contributed greatly to the ethos and level of debate.
It’s time to step up, sir!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
@Excelsior .. PB has just text me to say he loves Jean Shepherds catchphrase ?? …. Do you know what it is ?? ..’Excelsior you Fathead’ … I have just told PB off for this disgusting insult!
PB has been attending night classes for … Tactfulness !! But it is only his first one!
PB has told me in an earlier post you said you are overweight;you smoke & you have suffered mental issues???
In your last 2 posts to PB you are showing the signs of losing the plot … I hear Prozac is quite effective for someone displaying your characteristics … In your comment you mention psychological buttons… PB has obviously pressed all of them???
PB says he loves you very much ??& because he cares for you & your fragile mental state ?? His advice is he has a friend in Broadmoor who may be able to help!!
PB is panting & eagerly awaiting your reply!!
As the Yanks say … Have a Nice Day!!
What was that about ? ‘Step up , Sir’
Pickled Brain / Mashed Brain
Now you are commenting on my mental state and prescribing Prozac?
Just what characteristics am I showing?
You say you have a friend in Broadmoor who can help me?
Peter Sutcliffe murdered ladies with brutal violence. Is this the “friend” you are referring to?
What did you hope to achieve with this comment?
I hope that you realise that it is you who is rapidly losing any respect that you once may have had, sir.
This truly is not your finest hour, is it?
It is fortunate for you that I am stable and robust enough to take your truly pathetic attacks with equanimity.
I hope that you do not send others over the edge with your insensitive and demeaning comments.
As for me? You have clearly identified yourself as someone with absolutely nothing to offer. I shall simply ignore your pointless comments in future.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Fair warning: If you’re not part of the PB issue and are irritated by the mention of it, then please move on to another comment. Thank you.
Well, I’ve already secured my spot outside of the circled wagons, so I might as well wrap my part of the issue up with some final thoughts.
First of all, to the issue of my own motivation in all of this: I’m personally not even slightly sensitive about my own weight. I would benefit from losing about 20 lbs, but couldn’t care less if somebody thinks that’s funny. I live in the deep South, USA. The food here is just too damn good.
My problem was with the total lack of tact and understanding on PB’s part when replying to Anonymous, and then the inexplicable, belligerent, cornered-rat backlash that ensued after he was calmly and respectfully called out on it. And after I put up a couple of conciliatory comments, he did say a nice thing to Anonymous, but then came back and started up all over again.
The other thing I want to mention is this: I’m seeing PB and a few others making little jokes about trying to not use capital letters, which may possibly be in reference to Lloyd’s demand for PB to stop using them so much. But Lloyd didn’t delete PB’s very last comment because it had too many capital letters.
I don’t think many here saw that last comment. I did. So just for clarification, understand that it was a bizarre hyper-rant that was the most venomous one yet, and addressed more than just obesity. It was clearly packaged in such a way to be a challenge to Lloyd to remove him from the site, with him seeming to want to go out in some kind of insane blaze of glory.
I believe in second chances, and had no problem with PB getting one. However, based on his recent comment to Excelsior, it looks like he’s already possibly on the verge of unraveling again.
Rather than patting him on the back and winking at his bizarre behavior, his real friends would better serve him by urging him to work on being more respectful and even-keeled in the interest of the peace and health of this site, which means so much to all of us.
To those groaning over this comment, understand this: I DON’T WANT to comment on this again. Don’t jump into the middle of this with a plea for “everyone” to “just let this go”, as an answer to my comment. If you want PB to stay here, help him to stop needling people like we’re all children on a playground.
@JB Reezner … I totally agree with you that it would be immature to keep on commenting with PB like children in a playground …,
But could you answer one serious question?
Why are you supporting such a pompous ,self righteous twit like Excelsior?
I thought you had more sense than that!
@JB Reezner… I hope Excelsior is reading your comments& takes your advice.. I am glad you told him off for behaving like a child in the playground !
I mean ?? Grown adults trading childish insults … I wish Excelsior would grow up .. Ah well maybe one day ??
You know, I am kind of being shunned by former close friend of mine, who is obviously very gay, just not acting on those impulses. He loves being flamboyant and he has had a lot of success in the Witness World making friends and being popular. Up till now, even the hard-core JWs and the stuff older ones, have had to accept him and leave him alone. I think that will all change now!!!
I’m not one to wish ‘bad’ on my friend or the many others like him in “The Truth” but I think that they will have some cold water thrown on them now by elders who are zealous to do ‘the right thing’. This will have a very adverse affect on these poor brothers and sisters who were making a pretty good compromise between being a JW and still enjoying some freedom. They also added a lot of spice and fun to that stuffy old cult. This witch hunt should be enough to get them out (to freedom) and make those staying in that much more miserable and bored.
Good work Tony Morris! You’re a real genius!