The new JW.org – Watchtower’s attempt to tame the internet
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The new-look JW.org signals the start of a new effort by the Watch Tower Society to embrace the potential of the Internet – but will it succeed?

On September 1st 2012 the official website of Jehovah’s Witnesses took on a distinctive new look, and a bold new role for the Watch Tower Society. Rather than continuing to maintain its three previous websites (jwmedia.org, watchtower.org and jw.org), Watchtower has now effectively put “all of its eggs in one basket” by revamping JW.org to serve as the single point of contact for people seeking to access Jehovah’s Witnesses online.

To Jehovah’s Witnesses themselves, this change isn’t unexpected, even if the timing is a little slack. The decision to amalgamate the three websites was announced at meetings worldwide five months in advance, at the beginning of April 2012. A letter was read out at these meetings, dated April 2nd 2012, which said (in part):

“To enhance the effectiveness of our use of the Internet, the Governing Body has decided to consolidate the three sites into one site called jw.org. The Web site will be completely redesigned. It will be appealing and easy to navigate using either a computer or a mobile device.

The redesigned jw.org Web site is planned for release around the beginning of June 2012. It will paint an appealing picture of our preaching work, branch offices, Kingdom Halls, and conventions.

A newsroom section will provide up-to-date reporting on events affecting God’s people worldwide. Selected features from our magazines that can be presented more effectively on the Web site will now be published only on jw.org. These include the following: ‘For Young People,’ ‘My Bible Lessons,’ and the Gilead graduation report from the public edition of The Watchtower and ‘For Family Review’ and ‘Young People Ask’ from Awake! In addition, a series of online articles available only on the Web site will provide concise, clear answers to questions about the Bible and about Jehovah’s Witnesses.”

According to the above, the redesigned website was scheduled for launch at the beginning of June 2012. However, for some unknown reason, the launch was postponed by three months to the beginning of September.

Appealing, but how factual?

Visually and functionally, the new website is a clear improvement on its predecessor. The images are sharp and striking, and the color scheme is well-chosen. The menus are clear and not overly complicated. In that sense, the Society has achieved its objective of producing a website that is “appealing and easy to navigate using either a computer or a mobile device.” However, as with any material produced by the Society with a view to providing religious instruction, the actual content rather than the appearance should be of utmost interest to discerning readers.

In its April 2nd letter, the Society declared that a primary focus of the new website would be to “paint an appealing picture of our preaching work, branch offices, Kingdom Halls, and conventions”. No doubt any religious organization would understandably be concerned about portraying its beliefs and practices in a favorable light. However, should not such a website also present information in a way that is honest, and not misleading – especially since its purpose is to direct outsiders to worship the “God of truth”? (Psalm 31:5)

Visitors to the Society’s new website will find it visually appealing, but is the information accurate?

True, certain more complex doctrinal views may be hard to grasp for the uninitiated. However, in such instances, nothing is stopping the Society from presenting a brief but candid explanation of these more controversial beliefs; simply stating that more information is available in the publications that are available for download (or by clicking on a link to a digital version of a relevant Watchtower article).

You would certainly not expect an organization that prides itself on spreading “the Truth” to provide information on their official website that is misleading, or only partially true. However, a closer inspection of the new JW.org website reveals that this is precisely what the Watch Tower Society has done. Take for example the “Frequently Asked Questions” section. One question asks “Do You Feel That You Are The Only People Who Will Be Saved?” Here is the stated answer:

“No. Many millions who lived in centuries past and who weren’t Jehovah’s Witnesses will have an opportunity for salvation. The Bible explains that in God’s promised new world, there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous. (Acts 24:15) Additionally, many now living may yet begin to serve God, and they too will gain salvation. In any case, it’s not our job to judge who will or won’t be saved. That assignment rests squarely in Jesus’ hands.—John 5:22, 27.”

Despite initially answering “no”, the above statement goes on to contradict itself by implying that only three groups of people have a chance to be saved by God. These are…

  • Those who were alive before Jehovah’s Witnesses existed
  • Jehovah’s Witnesses
  • Those who aren’t yet Jehovah’s Witnesses, but who will become Jehovah’s Witnesses before Armageddon

The website cunningly sidesteps the question of whether only Jehovah’s Witnesses will survive Armageddon

As far as the original question is concerned, the answer should be a straightforward “yes”! When Armageddon strikes, Jehovah’s Witnesses DO feel that they are the only ones who will be saved. The answer is therefore both self-contradictory and misleading – and frankly, the significance and ramifications of the question warrants greater honesty and transparency.

As I have discussed in a previous article, vast swathes of the Earth’s populace (approximately one-third, in fact) either live in lands where there are no Jehovah’s Witnesses, or extremely low publisher-to-population ratios (1 in a million in Bangladesh). What will happen to these billions of people in Arab or communist lands who have never heard of Jehovah’s Witnesses when Armageddon comes? Will Jehovah kill them all? According to the new JW.org website, the answer is ambiguous, but actually “yes”.

Sadly, this is not the only example of dishonesty and evasiveness on the new website. Consider, for example, the question related to disfellowshipping – which asks “Do You Shun Former Members of Your Religion?” The answer given reads as follows…

“Those who were baptized as Jehovah’s Witnesses but no longer preach to others, perhaps even drifting away from association with fellow believers, are not shunned. In fact, we reach out to them and try to rekindle their spiritual interest.

We do not automatically disfellowship someone who commits a serious sin. If, however, a baptized Witness makes a practice of breaking the Bible’s moral code and does not repent, he or she will be shunned or disfellowshipped. The Bible clearly states: Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.1 Corinthians 5:13.

What of a man who is disfellowshipped but whose wife and children are still Jehovah’s Witnesses? The religious ties he had with his family change, but blood ties remain. The marriage relationship and normal family affections and dealings continue.

Disfellowshipped individuals may attend our religious services. If they wish, they may also receive spiritual counsel from congregation elders. The goal is to help each individual once more to qualify to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Disfellowshipped people who reject improper conduct and demonstrate a sincere desire to live by the Bible’s standards are always welcome to become members of the congregation again.’

The above statement completely overlooks two key scenarios, namely…

  1. What happens to those who are disfellowshipped despite not having broken the Bible’s moral code? (e.g. those who decide that they no longer agree with the organization and feel compelled to speak out and warn others about perceived doctrinal flaws or damaging practices)
  2. What about teenagers or young people who are disfellowshipped and shunned by their parents because they are viewed as being old enough to leave the family home?

Of this latter group of individuals, a recent Watchtower article said…

“Consider just one example of the good that can come when a family loyally upholds Jehovah’s decree not to associate with disfellowshipped relatives. A young man had been disfellowshipped for over ten years, during which time his father, mother, and four brothers “quit mixing in company” with him. At times, he tried to involve himself in their activities, but to their credit, each member of the family was steadfast in not having any contact with him. After he was reinstated, he said that he always missed the association with his family, especially at night when he was alone. But, he admitted, had the family associated with him even a little, that small dose would have satisfied him. However, because he did not receive even the slightest communication from any of his family, the burning desire to be with them became one motivating factor in his restoring his relationship with Jehovah. Think of that if you are ever tempted to violate God’s command not to associate with your disfellowshipped relatives.” (The Watchtower, April 15th 2012, page 12, paragraph 17)

So, not only do Jehovah’s Witnesses shun family members who are disfellowshipped (apart from the extremely narrow exception to this rule that is provided in the FAQ), but the Watch Tower Society actively coerces parents to consider the shunning of their own children as being “God’s command” – even though the bible counsel at 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 says nothing about shunning being applicable within the family circle.

The FAQ answer mentioned above gives evidence that family members CAN be exempted from shunning, albeit only if the disfellowshipped one is the head of the household. Yet, Paul’s words in 1 Cor 5:11-13 simply prescribe shunning for “anyone called a brother” (meaning, according to the context, “anyone called a brother” in the congregation who unrepentantly sins). Paul does not say anything in this scripture about the family circle, and he certainly doesn’t say anything about family heads in particular.

Therefore, we might well ask, why should deviant teenage sons and daughters be any less deserving of meaningful loving contact with their parents (especially at such a vulnerable stage in their lives), given that the bible states nowhere explicitly that family members are to shun one another? Why show mercy in one application of scripture in this important area, but not in another – especially when crucial family ties are involved, and mental and emotional wellbeing is at stake? (1 Tim 5:8; Matt 9:13)

The website conveniently neglects to mention the Witness practice of shunning teenagers

For whatever reason, the Society doesn’t want visitors to its website to know that shunning IS cruelly and unmercifully enforced against disfellowshipped family members who are old enough to leave the family home, even though this is clearly spelled out in a members-only Watchtower Study Edition as being “God’s command”. If this is truly “God’s command”, then why does the Society fail to mention (or admit to) this aspect of shunning on its website when answering a direct question on the matter?

Furthermore, the FAQ answer regarding shunning only cites “breaking the Bible’s moral code” as being grounds for disfellowshipping. Nothing is mentioned about the many who are disfellowshipped and shunned despite not having contravened the Bible’s moral code – i.e. those who have merely had a change of heart about whether Jehovah’s Witnesses have the true religion, and wish to express themselves on the matter. Such ones are routinely disfellowshipped and shunned, both by former friends and family members alike, under the trumped-up charge of “apostasy” (a word applied in scripture to those who deviate from Christianity, not the Watch Tower Society).

This brings us to another interesting FAQ on the new website, which poses the question “Are You Tolerant of Other Religions?” Here is the Watchtower’s answer…

“We follow the Bible’s advice to “respect everyone”—regardless of their religious beliefs. (1 Peter 2:17, Today’s English Version) For example, in some countries there are hundreds of thousands of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Even so, we don’t try to pressure politicians or lawmakers into restricting or banning the work of other religious groups. Nor do we campaign to have laws passed that would impose our moral and religious convictions on the general community. Instead, we extend to others the same tolerance that we appreciate receiving from them.—Matthew 7:12.”

Jehovah’s Witnesses seemingly have a very narrow understanding of what “tolerance” means. They feel that tolerance, in a religious context, merely means not trying to manipulate governmental authorities to bend to their whims when legislating or dealing with other religious groups. The Society surely realises that being religiously tolerant actually means far more than just this narrow and rather curious application, which is an apparent dig at other religious organizations that have caused problems for Jehovah’s Witnesses in the past. However, rather than looking at other religions when it comes to exercising tolerance, perhaps the Watch Tower Society ought to look at its own record more closely. (Matthew 7:3)

Put simply, if Jehovah’s Witnesses do indeed “respect everyone regardless of their religious beliefs”, then they have a very peculiar way of showing it. As just one example, consider how the Watch Tower Society reacts to those mentioned above in this article who leave Jehovah’s Witnesses on religious grounds and are thus labelled as “apostates”. Notice how they are described in the following quote from a recent Watchtower article…

“Suppose that a doctor told you to avoid contact with someone who is infected with a contagious, deadly disease. You would know what the doctor means, and you would strictly heed his warning. Well, apostates are ‘mentally diseased,’ and they seek to infect others with their disloyal teachings. (1 Tim. 6:3, 4) Jehovah, the Great Physician, tells us to avoid contact with them. We know what he means, but are we determined to heed his warning in all respects?” (The Watchtower 2011, July 15th, page 16, paragraph 6).

Paul Grundy, founder of JWfacts.com – one of the many labelled “mentally diseased” by the Watch Tower Society simply for leaving on religious grounds

Yes, not content to shun those who leave the organization for religious reasons, Jehovah’s Witnesses aggravate such ones still further by branding them as “mentally diseased” – a deeply insulting slur, both for apostates and those who genuinely suffer from mental illness. Using such vindictive and hateful language hardly befits a group of people claiming to “extend to others the same tolerance that we appreciate receiving from them”.

As many of you will be aware, former believers are not the only ones who are on the receiving end of the Watch Tower Society’s unique brand of “tolerance”. Consider just a few quotes about the Catholic Church as taken from the book Revelation – It’s Grand Climax At Hand!

“For thousands of years, Babylon the Great has been bloodguilty, and she is a gross fornicatrix. For example, the policy of the Roman Catholic Church of forbidding her priests to marry has resulted in gross immorality on the part of many of them, not a few of these today contracting AIDS.” – page 272, par. 3.

“The Catholic Church thus shares responsibility for consigning thousands of Witnesses to concentration camps; its hands are stained by the lifeblood of hundreds of Witnesses who were executed.” – page 270, par. 15.

“Why must the great harlot symbolize more than the Roman Catholic Church or even all of Christendom?” – Study question on page 235, par. 3.

Despite branding other faiths as being part of the harlot of Babylon The Great, Jehovah’s Witnesses view themselves as religiously tolerant

So, to summarize, according to a still widely circulated publication of the Watch Tower Society, the Catholic Church is (1) part of the great harlot of Babylon the Great, which is, in turn, a “gross fornicatrix”, (2) responsible for its own priests contracting the AIDS virus, and (3) responsible for the executions of “hundreds” of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Nazi concentration camps. If you were a Roman Catholic, do you think you would consider Jehovah’s Witnesses to be tolerant or respectful of your beliefs after reading the above passages?

I have highlighted just three of the 12 FAQs on JW.org, but I could provide more examples of ambiguity or deception on this website if pressed to do so. My question is, why is it all necessary? If Jehovah’s Witnesses have “the Truth”, then why misrepresent these beliefs or try to hide them from outsiders? Why can’t the Watch Tower Society be proud of its beliefs and present these without any spin or trickery? Only they will know the answers to such questions.

To me, it appears that the Society knows full well that many core beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses are almost impossible for any reasonable outsiders to accept. The beliefs surrounding shunning and the lack of tolerance of other faiths would indeed repel most thinking people from examining Witness beliefs in any great detail whatsoever. The Society would therefore rather conceal any doctrinal embarrassments in an attempt to lure people into requesting a bible study. After all, strange doctrines are always much easier to accept once people have already grown accustomed to less controversial teachings such as those presented in the first few chapters of the Bible Teach book.

An unexpected side effect

But there is another aspect to the launch of JW.org that has caught my attention, and this relates to the use of videos on certain pages of the new website. These videos, which are intended to promote various aspects of Witness work and teachings, are for the most part highly polished productions that portray Witness beliefs in an appealing light. However, it seems the Society has seriously misjudged the tendency for any videos that are launched on the internet to eventually find their way onto YouTube, and this alone opens up a Pandora’s box of problems.

A section on masturbation from the book “Keep Yourselves In Gods Love” is causing a stir on YouTube

For example, the Society has a number of sign language videos that are clearly designed to help deaf people study their publications. One such publication that has been “translated” into Sign Language is the book Keep Yourselves In God’s Love, which has an entire section on pages 218 to 219 entitled “Gain the Victory Over Masturbation“. As you can imagine, the sign language version of this section of the book contains some quite graphic gestures denoting the act of self-stimulation. Some YouTubers wasted very little time in taking the videos off JW.org and putting them onto YouTube – in some cases even putting the films to music.

Once on YouTube, the sign language video dealing with masturbation went viral, and reached as many as 870,000 views before being pulled off YouTube by the Watch Tower Society, who claimed copyright infringement. By this time, the video had changed the perception of Jehovah’s Witnesses for hundreds of thousands of onlookers – most of whom will have been perplexed as to why our religion goes to such extreme and graphic measures to stop its adherents from masturbating.

This somewhat drastic intervention from the Society also came too late to stop the deaf masturbation video from being lampooned on the television show The Burn with Jeff Ross on Comedy Central…

Obviously, many of you who haven’t yet researched Witness teachings from an objective viewpoint will have many reservations about your cherished beliefs being openly mocked in such a way. This is wholly understandable. However, regardless of your personal views about the practice of masturbation, nobody can deny that not one single scripture in the Bible either speaks about masturbation or condemns it directly – even though God’s word never normally shies away from condemning practices, however intimate, if it deems it necessary. Many like myself feel that it is wrong to add laws to the Bible where none exist.

The Society’s unbiblical, invasive and outdated rules about masturbation give it a bad reputation when the teaching is scrutinized online

Indeed, the section in the “God’s Love” book cites no less than 10 scriptures in support of the Society’s anti-masturbation stance, even though none of these scriptures discuss masturbation. Is this not a clear example of introducing a law based on nothing other than opinion and “private interpretation”? (2 Peter 1:20) Does it glorify God to create invasive and unbiblical laws that expose Jehovah’s name to public ridicule on the internet and television? If you dwell on such questions, you might hopefully begin to understand why some might feel compelled to highlight this and other similarly unfounded teachings to the wider world.

However, even videos that put a positive spin on JW beliefs can wreak untold havoc once posted on YouTube – even if they are posted by well-meaning publishers with any comments or negative feedback “disabled”. Why is this? Firstly, videos on YouTube can easily be “mirrored” (or copied by others) and then commented on freely. Some comments left underneath such mirrored videos will inevitably be left by those who have had a negative experience within the Witness faith, and feel motivated to express why not everything is as it seems.

Secondly, once you watch a video on YouTube, YouTube will automatically suggest videos of a similar topic for you to watch. Inevitably, the majority of videos on YouTube regarding Jehovah’s Witnesses are less than flattering about the organization and its teachings. This is also a nightmare scenario for the Society, because they want to be able to control what kind of material people watch about them, rather than leave a “worldly” website such as YouTube free rein to indiscriminately promote undesirable JW-related material.

For the above two reasons, having professionally produced videos in circulation on the Internet in any form is a bad idea for the Society, and yet a number have been produced already. So far, the Society has uploaded the following videos to its website…

Already a number of the above videos have found their way onto YouTube, prompting much discussion among those viewing them who have been impacted by the beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses on a day-to-day basis. You might think this would be a welcome development for the Society – however, as I’ve explained, the very existence of YouTube and similar websites poses serious problems for the organization, and we are already starting to see the Watch Tower Society take matters into its own hands.

A Copyright Clampdown

The Society has recently started going to extraordinary lengths to curtail the influx of videos on YouTube that feature even the slightest portion of their material. For example, I recently posted a song on YouTube called “Sparlock We Love You”. The song was intended as a humorous parody of the Become Jehovah’s Friend DVD and it’s ill-fated villain – Sparlock the Warrior Wizard. The song I wrote and recorded was original, but the Society had the video removed after it had received over 10,000 views on the basis of a claim of copyright infringement (some of the pictures I used on the video were taken from the Society’s DVD).

In actual fact, under “fair use” laws, there is legally nothing wrong with using copyrighted material if it is intended as a parody for non-profit making purposes. However, I am unable to contest the decision to remove the video without potentially opening up a lawsuit and revealing my identity and contact details. Instead, I have re-uploaded the song minus any copyrighted material, which is viewable below…

To read my article on the “Become Jehovah’s Friend” DVD, please click here.

I mention the above video purely by way of illustrating the lengths that the Society will go to in pulling material off YouTube that presents its beliefs in a less than flattering light. Even the unedited version of the “Become Jehovah’s Friend” DVD was pulled from YouTube soon after being leaked, despite being described by the Society as “part of a worldwide Bible educational work supported by voluntary donations”. If you produce something that is free, educational, and intended for viewing by as many people as possible – then why have it withdrawn from YouTube? The answer: because you want to control who watches it, and under what circumstances it is watched.

The Internet – An Underestimated Foe

Considering the above, it seems the Society has seriously underestimated the internet (and YouTube in particular) by making so many of its videos available on its new version of JW.org. I firmly believe the Society will continue to publish videos on the website, the most interesting of which will soon after be pulled across onto YouTube – perhaps even by enthusiastic publishers, only to be later mirrored and dissected by those whose feelings towards the Society are less than cordial. That is certainly what appears to be happening now. The only way it could stop would be if the Society relented and stopped putting videos on its website. However, it seems committed to pressing ahead with this bold and rather naive strategy.

By enabling the free exchange of information, the internet is making it increasingly difficult for the Society to hide its more controversial teachings

As already discussed, another tactic the Society seems to have embraced is that of being extremely selective in how it disseminates the teachings of Jehovah’s Witnesses to the broader public. As I have already demonstrated, the Society will think nothing of posing questions of itself, only to respond to these questions in an extremely misleading way, either by concealing the true answers or failing to address the question altogether.

It’s regrettable that the Society feels inclined to promote its beliefs in such a shady and underhanded manner. However, the more I learn of the Society and its methods, the less these things come as a surprise to me. The only thing that does surprise me is the naivety with which the organization has seemingly embraced the challenge of trying to charm its most threatening foe, the internet, simply by offering up this sparkling new website with its highly-produced videos.

One of the marvellous things about the internet is that, by enabling communication and the free exchange of information, it becomes extremely difficult for people to hide the truth. In such a punishing environment of debate and free speech, the Society has struggled to enjoy the success and impressive growth of previous decades. I don’t see the launch of this website changing things. In fact, by launching these recent videos, the Society seems to have made their situation a whole lot more precarious.

* To read my response to the April 2nd letter in which I explain why the Society’s internet strategy will ultimately fail, please click here.

For more information on the Watch Tower Society’s view of masturbation, click here.

To read the above article in Hungarian, please click here.

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107 Responses to The new JW.org – Watchtower’s attempt to tame the internet

  1. The Watchtower has had it easy for so long, by publishing material in a top down manner and having it accepted from the bottom. Now they are operating in an environment where others are on an equal footing and can push back when they get absurd. They are not used to that and their is nothing in their business model and culture that allows them to develop a meaningful strategy or method for handling opposition from an equal. They are in a change or die scenario.

  2. Alden says:

    Hi Cedars,
    I beg you to please get off of trivializing masturbation. As far as I know, the WTS has never disfellowshipped on the grounds of masturbation, so it’s not an issue – so just leave it alone as you may be even promoting it and it takes away from your justified criticism!
    Masturbation is a desperate attempt to satisfy ones sexual passions. Sex is an instrument of love and it’s a very sorry thing when it is satisfied “manually”. Those who have the vice are to be felt sorry for, but by no means should they be encouraged! They should hopefully find a loving solution to the matter – like marriage maybe? I know the problem is more deep-rooted than that. The point is; find a better solution!
    The rest of your points are well taken, however.
    Cheers,
    Alden

    • Cedars says:

      Thanks Alden. I believe masturbation is a personal thing, and is neither to be promoted nor condemned. If it is to be condemned, then this should certainly not be done on scriptural grounds, because the bible has nothing to say about the practice (despite having ALOT to say about other bodily functions). I am against adding laws to the bible where none exist, and I make no apologies for this. I’m sorry you feel differently.

      Cedars

      PS – Are you seriously suggesting that the lifelong commitment of marriage should be entered into purely as a means of gratifying sexual cravings? I consider such thinking detrimental.

      • Alden says:

        Thx for your response Cedars. Condemnation no, sympathy for someone suffering from this vice – yes. It is indeed a vice. Not only the WTS say this. There are no scriptural grounds used for disfellowshipping on account of masturbation, so I don’t see any harm if the WTS expresses their viewpoint on the scriptures like anyone else is allowed to do. In the final analysis we are accountable only to the Lord in moral issues. It’s when the WTS puts on the thumbscrews and forces a position beyond reason upon their subjects. I don’t think they are that far gone about masturbation.

        My recommendation is simply to get on with the more important issues (eg. blood, shunning, mind-control, etc.).

        PS:No, of course not.

        • Cedars says:

          Thanks Alden. I understand your position. However, I maintain that if something isn’t mentioned in the bible, then neither the Watchtower nor any religious organization has any place making up a rule about it, or pretending that the Bible has something to say on the matter. To do so goes “beyond the things that are written”. (1 Cor 3:6) It’s a similar case with birthdays – you shouldn’t go insisting on a law or principal that isn’t scripturally supported. However, I’m glad we can agree to differ.

          Cedars

          • Alden says:

            Sure, Cedars, ‘iron sharpens iron’. We’re just beginning to learn. I wish the WTS would think that way, too, but they don’t allow for contradiction. I defend their right to their viewpoint, however, as long as it does not encroach upon the rights of others. Interestingly, they haven’t made a ruling about masturbation, so it is without direct consequences. The reader can choose to have the reasoning of the WTS influence his thinking or not; he is not subjected to duress or coercion.
            Let’s take the example of smoking, however, they unfortunately have made a ruling that is unsustainable scripturally. I do not smoke nor do I defend it but you cannot deprive someone of love just because he smokes; it’s anti-christian. Birthdays was another good example – no scripture! As the WTS history would have it, Joseph Rutherford simply did not ‘like’ the practice anymore and had it abolished. It was a human decision on a very trivial matter making it a capital offense. That is ‘going beyond the things written’ for sure!

    • Greg ,you sound like a Watchtower spy ,Cedars is being very clear but you are trying to make it a big issue .Jehovah created masturbating walrusses ,so masturbation is non of Antony Morris’s business .As Jesus said to the Pharisees you have cancelled the Word of God with your traditions. The wicked slave of New York is destroying Jehovah’s Witnesses with their stupid doctrines. Stop worshiping these snakes they are going straight for the Geheena

    • As a recent ex witness of over 50 years I feel I can speak with some authority on this subject being brain washed by my witness mother in the early 1960s who manipulated the scriptures to convince me I would become a homosexual if I masturbated (fear and guilt, the trade marks of all religions) so as an adolescent with a machine gun between my legs with a hair trigger my problems were immense, I was’nt allowed to masturbate And allowed to fornicate the result was I was a pest at school with all the girls as I tried to cope with my bodily changes with no advice or guidance, so the result when a young male or female when they were alone together was they fornicated and ended up disfellowshipped and some still ignored after over 40 years ! And the attitude of elders in their 60s and 70s is that young ones is they must display self control,

      • Cedars says:

        Thanks for sharing that story Terence. It serves to demonstrate how unfounded doctrines dealing with sensitive emotional issues can have a real impact on one’s physical and emotional development.

      • Alden says:

        Dear Terence,
        I feel it to be good to have compassion for persons with sexual problems of any kind. A case in point; I have a niece who is lesbian and I’m the only relative – Witness or non-Witness – who treats her like a human being. We were made sexual by our Creator, just as with all our other bodily functions. It’s not the most important part of our being. As proverbs says our hearts are the source of life. Humans fail in dealing with this very potent gift from God just as we fail in many other things. We can’t expect too much help from human sources in general but need as close a relationship with God and our Savior as possible. They have our best interests at heart and want us to be happy. I truly believe that the Bible teaches that our sexuality has its fullest expression in marriage. Of course, there are problems with that. We make wrong decisions that put us under pressure and we crack under pressure. Just normal human stuff. That’s why we need a Savior in the first place. The institutions attempt to help, but all too often make serious mistakes themselves. The WTS ideology is not perfect and we are here to constructively criticize. They council against masturbation and I can’t say that they are totally wrong. I think it safe to say that Jesus didn’t masturbate, but he loved in a way no man had loved before – both in respects to women as to men. I think when walking with the Son of God the disciples were more prone to cultivate the things of the spirit than of the flesh. Masturbation is not the real thing. Persons with a balanced sexual life do not need it. Not all are blessed with such a balanced sexual life. That’s regretful and such ones deserve a certain amount of sympathy but the truth of how we were originally created does not change. I wish you success in finding a truly joyous solution, Terrence!

  3. musicman4283 says:

    Excellent article. I am very happy to have found this site and all of the information that it contains. This article may very well be the final piece of information I need to save my girlfriend from the clutches of the Watchtower. Thank you so very much for your hard work.

  4. Greg says:

    I also think that you lose some of your edge when you get to your masterbation topic. I would remove it, if you are really trying to show the faults of the Watchtower to genuine searchers of God. The Bible really does show that masterbation is wrong multiple times, namely in that you would not be in control over your body, and that you would be lusting over either an idea, image, or even your own body. It is also not the “natural use” of ones body, which sex is said to olnly be for married couples, male and female, for pleasure and reproduction.

    • Cedars says:

      Greg, thank you for your comment. You claim that “the Bible really does show that masturbation is wrong multiple times”. If this is the case, please provide the scriptural references where masturbation (and not scriptures APPLIED to masturbation) is expressly mentioned in the bible as being wrong. I will then gladly remove the material from the article. Bear in mind that people masturbated in bible times just as they do today, so if God viewed it as a “sin” of any kind, there was absolutely nothing stopping Jehovah from inspiring the bible writers to make a specific mention of the practice, in just the same way as was the case with other intimate practices.

      Cedars

      • Alden says:

        No one is asking you to apologize Cedars so quit going on the defensive. We’re simply saying that, in this point, you’re barking up the wrong tree. The Bible doesn’t talk about marijuana, for example, but there is no biblical defense for it, and your arguments make you sound like you’re defending masturbation. Make no revisions, just drop the subject and go on to more significant errors of the WTS. For example, how they tried to regulate sexual relations between married couples as to anal and oral copulation and once made a disfellowshipping case out of it. (See Ray Franz’s book). In that case they overstepped their authority; they went too far into the private lives of married couples. Concentrate on the more significant encroachments of the WTS into the free will of their readers. You’ll be able to write plenty of material on that.

    • My answer is don’t give me a machine gun when I was 13 and not expect problems, if you need to blame anyone then refer to the designer !

  5. Cedars says:

    Alden – I thought you and I had “agreed to disagree”, so why are you bringing this up again? You are now ordering me to “quit going on the defensive” on my own website? I am perfectly within my rights to answer comments from those whose opinions and attitudes are clearly still tainted by Watchtower ideology.

    For example, you use the excuse that nowhere is marijuana condemned in the bible. However, there are no records of marijuana even being circulated in bible times, but you would need a wild imagination to presume that people weren’t masturbating back then. Your analogy is therefore frankly preposterous.

    If Jehovah wanted to condemn masturbation in the scriptures, he could have done so easily and directly. The fact that he didn’t means that, just as with prohibitions against oral sex for married couples, this is an intimate personal area in which the Society is going beyond the things that are written over a matter of personal conscience. If anybody is “going on the defensive” here, it is you over an unscriptural teaching.

    What’s even more disturbing is that one moment we agree to differ amicably, but the very first comment that supports your view, you go on the offensive again. I’m disappointed.

  6. Cedars says:

    Alden – one more thing. I’ve said before, I’m neither defending nor condemning masturbation. The only thing I condemn is the making of laws that aren’t based on scripture, of which the Society’s writings on masturbation are just one of many examples. If anyone is defending anything, it is you who is defending their right to do this, which is regrettable.

    • Alden says:

      Hi Ceders, I was just trying to be precise and wanted to add a little something to Greg’s comment. Unless I’ve missed something, the WTS has only COUNSELED against it. A law would imply that there be a sanction, like disfellowshipping, as a consequence. I don’t believe this is the case here. It was different with the WTS ruling (law) against oral and anal copulation – it was made a disfellowshipping offense. They then retracted it some time later as I recall, but it shows the strong tendency of WTS to pry into people’s affairs, whereas the Head of every man is the Christ and to Him each one of us answers.
      From my Bethel experience, there was a great problem of masturbation. Everybody wanted to get rid of the habit and enjoy a lovely and sexually rewarding relationship with the mate of their dreams, not needing the ‘do-it-yourself’ routine.
      ‘Nuff said, Ceders. I won’t bring up the subject any more if you don’t.

      • Cedars says:

        Thanks Alden. I don’t agree that laws necessarily need to have tangible penalties, but in the case of masturbation, it would definitely have an impact on congregational privileges at the very least. There is also the compulsion to admit to the practice in order to have a “clear conscience”, and the humiliation of doing so before others who are not entitled to such information. Finally, I believe all the guilt surrounding the practice is counter-productive and detrimental to a young person’s emotional development – but that’s just my opinion. In any case, it’s an area into which the Society should not delve – but that’s just my opinion.

        • Alden says:

          Great Cedars, I think we’ve arrived at a synthesis! Now we’re talking about the subtle mind control that we can most certainly do without. We get enough punishment out of this old world to need more punishment of a psychological kind! It is a matter to come to grips with (no pun intended). But we have to discuss it with our Lord Jesus and not feel we have to answer to some institution of men with their own faults to be dealt with.

  7. Greg says:

    Are you stating that masterbation without pornography or stimulating images is okay, or that all masterbation, including pornography (which is the majority) is okay? You are too vague in saying that the act is not condemned in the bible.

    • Cedars says:

      Greg – I’m not too vague in saying that masturbation isn’t condemned in the Bible, because masturbation isn’t condemned in the bible. As I’ve said in other comments, I neither condone nor condemn masturbation. I merely think it is wrong to set rules regulating matters over which God’s word is silent.

  8. Greg says:

    You get upset at comments way too much to give yourself any credit as an authority on what scripture says or does not say. I was merely asking a question, which by the way you are “too vague” on. It is a simple as saying having sex is not wrong. The circumstances are very important to bring in if you want to defend your right to do them in a way that would please God.

    • Cedars says:

      I am not “upset” by comments at all. If you want to judge what I write, do it by using the scriptures and logic. If you can present me with a scripture that condemns masturbation, I will happily refute my earlier stance.

      I will say this though. You claim that my stance is similar to saying “having sex is not wrong”, even though, according to the bible, having sex IS wrong in a number of different circumstances. This is not the same as the issue of masturbation, which isn’t mentioned in the bible at all.

      If anyone’s reasoning sounds driven by emotion, it is yours.

      • Excellent article ,excellent website .Please don’t stop writing ,the ex-jw needs you ,I hope I could write like you .Have faith is on our side ,do not be afraid of the wicked slave .Jehovah hates lies and half truths as the ones the self processed GB spreads daily

  9. J.M. says:

    Greg and Alden: I’m not sure how I ended up on this page and reading Cedar’s excellent presentation. But let me start by saying: Sorry if I seem rude (I don’t mean to be) but you both seem to fall on a decidedly “prudish” side. If you’re either or both simply playing devil’s advocate, I apologize. Greg, if you’re going to make an argument, at least learn how to spell masturbation.

    One or both of you fail to recognize that God created masturbation. I’ve been to the zoo and watched many animals doing it. Hell, I’ve enjoyed a good wank myself and I think that it’s perfectly normal. What is not normal to me is to make those who do it feel guilty about it. That was a “given” at Bethel. And yes, they gave you “biblical” reasons for it. I know the Bible doesn’t mention it, but I can’t imagine that from the age of 17 until he was 30 while either in prison or serving Potiphar, at the height of his manly prowess, Joseph did not on several occasions proceed to stroke his “patriarchal staff”. Nature alone tells you that if you don’t do it, your body will do it for you (think wet dream). Although, I fail to understand why that was a mild condemnation of sorts in the Mosaic law.

    Yes, masturbation is trivial. Or at least, as Cedar states it: It’s private and none of anyone’s business. Alden, you call it a “vice”. Someone else (I think you Greg) suggested that it’s wrong because “you would not be in control over your body, and that you would be lusting over either an idea, image, or even your own body”. Wrong. That is strictly your opinion and perhaps what you incorrectly fear or have experienced. That was not my imagery when I took those “mini-vacations”. I’m not always in control when I fart or belch, just to name a few other bodily functions. Fertile women need to menstruate. And although that was also something to atone for in the Mosaic law, we no longer view it as bad but as a natural thing. You guys ought to think the same about “raising the flag”.

    Someone who suffers from Turrets and cusses out loud is not in “control”. On that example alone, I can envision that that there are many other acts of conduct that people simply can’t help. Call them sins if you like. But don’t condemn and punish some for a specific benefit or opinion, as the WTBTS does, while glossing over others. I used to argue with my sister why the WTBTS wouldn’t disfellowship some people for being over-weight as they do for smoking. Both are a reflection of neglecting your “temple”. And please don’t compare being overweight with gluttony. One can be a skinny glutton. I know some people couldn’t help being over-weight for other reasons. But it just didn’t make sense that the WTBTS would punish for one practice and not for another based on the same principle. If you’re to argue that one has to eat but doesn’t have to smoke, you’re wrong. Many people are compelled to smoke and do other no-no’s not just because of physical addiction but also because of complex psychological dependencies.

    And yes, that allows me to bring up the idea that to “buff the banana” once in a while does not mean an either or case. I know well the joys of being with a woman and that to have sex, especially while you’re totally infatuated and in love with a sweet wife is better than “polishing your flagpole” or even better than just plain anonymous sex. But that doesn’t discount the satisfaction or even the imperative human need for sex, especially when no nooky is available. Solomon and David and many other patriarchs, besides liking quantity, also liked variety. You may want to turn and judge them on that account (something the bible doesn’t do) or comment about Lot’s daughters for committing incest that supposedly contributed to Christ’s lineage.

    The say that 95% of men masturbate and the other 5% lie about it. I don’t know about women, but I presume that such is at least the same. Yeah, I’m glad I don’t have to “grease the rail” anymore, but I’m not ashamed to say that, in the absence of anything better, I would “pop the balloon” if needed. You can “shake” on that.

  10. Anonymous says:

    All that you are arguing on will lead you nowhere: I read in the Bible And now a sword will not depart from your own house to time indefinite, as a consequence of the fact that you despised me so that you took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to become your wife.’ This is what Jehovah has said, ‘Here I am raising up
    against you calamity out of your own house; and I [JEHOVAH] will take your wives under your own eyes and give them to your fellowman, and he will certainly lie down with your wives under the eyes of this sun. Whereas you yourself acted in secret, I,
    formy part, shall do this thing in front of all Israeli and in front of the sun” (2 Samuel 12:10-12)
    All of who follow this foolish god [Jehovah] you will end up foolish as the WTS

  11. Jussain says:

    What if they are right? Just, “what if”? Would u stop serving false gods? Slow down… Start from the beginning of my post! “If they are right”, would you change, or be a coward?

  12. pollywog says:

    Just a heads-up about an upcoming program on canadian T.V… The CBC news weekly program Fifth Estate is scheduling a series on “whistleblowing” type people over the next few weeks – in its promo a Kingdom Hall sign flashed onscreen… I believe they air every thursday locally but will try to find out …. I enjoy your blogs.

  13. Mandelay says:

    Anonymous: I fail to see the foolish side of a justice explicitly pronounced. The king took another man’s wife and then had her husband taken out of the way. Should he not have tasted his own medicine? Furthermore, there is no real argument here. Everyone seems to agree in one way or another that the WT is guilty of “reaching” when there is no clear scriptural mandate.

  14. KtotheRAD says:

    The contempt and disdain that they clearly demonstrate towards the “Mentally Diseased” is manifest and patent in the systemic abuse of their own mentally ill…which goes overlooked and unnoticed even though it is criminal and brutally barbaric!

  15. Jessica Levy says:

    Seriously?
    The wts and others who worry about masturbation ought to focus more on child protection and child abuse.

  16. Udo says:

    Hi Cedars, no doubt you are an apostate. I am responding to your posting for the sake of some gullible once who may fall to your deciet. For one thing, the JW believe that their religion is the true christian religion. Other religions are false. Surviving Harmagedon is a different issue. Jehovah determines who will. Secondly, JW understand the difference between Specific Laws and Principles of the bible. Granted there is no law forbiding masturbation as well as other unclean practices like abuse of tobaco and drugs, pornography, gambling, etc. But they clearly certaing bible principles. They are unclean and defy the body. The difference between you and the faithfull JW is that while you look out for Laws, they consider principles. Principles are the spirit of the Laws. They never change whereas Laws can. Why not humbly subject youreself to a free bible study session with the JW for your own good. Jehovah is watching.

    • Cedars says:

      Udo, I find it funny that you say that I’M somehow more concerned with laws than the Governing Body is. If anything, I would like them to reduce the amount of petty laws that they inflict upon their followers, and stick to the over-riding principle of biblical guidance – which is love.

      As to your argument about tobacco, drugs and gambling – surely you would admit that the Bible contains laws governing other intimate bodily functions such as mentrual flows and wet dreams, and yet it has nothing to say about masturbation. Doesn’t this tell you something? Are you seriously suggesting that people didn’t masturbate in bible times, so there was no need to include specific direction in this regard?

      Also, why are you focussing on what I have written about masturbation while completely ignoring what I write towards the beginning of the article about the misleading manner in which the FAQs have been prepared on JW.org? What do you have to say on that issue?

  17. ty says:

    You permissive people are crazy. Those that lived in Noah’s time also thought they could do as they please, without consequence. They were all destroyed in the flood! Guess what? God only approved of Noah at that time. There weren’t a whole variety of acceptable religions on the earth. Why was Noah saved – He was doing Gods will. He was a preacher of righteousness and he followed Gods instructions and built the arc. Shew! that was hard work – It must have been restrictive. But the bible says – “Noah did just so”. Obedience is key to survival.

    When Moses and Joshua let the Israelite’s into the promised land and conquered many kingdoms, it was clear that only they had Gods approval. They were Gods approved congregation on the earth.

    When Jesus and his apostles were on the earth (Mathew to Revelation) only they were approved by God. No other religion was acceptable. Why were they approved by God? They were obedient and were doing Gods will.

    Ummm? notice a trend here?

    So how can we identify the truth in our time?

    OPEN YOUR EYES! – Who are doing Gods will today? (Certainly not the Author of this blog). Who are obedient to the bibles teachings, who are teaching others about gods kingdom? And very importantly – who are called by God’s name – Jehovah. The bible says he would take a people for his name. – Only Jehovah’s witnesses.

    The watchtower prints more literature than any other organization on earth. Not good enough for you? Well all this literature is offered with out cost and supported purely by voluntary contributions. It is an amazing organization and clearly has the backing of the True God, Jehovah. In fact it is his organization.

    How foolish it was for those during Noah’s time to ignore his warning about the flood. They must have laughed, ridiculed and jeered at him….Until the floodgates of the heavens opened.

    To those who ridicule Jehovah’s organization, think carefully. You might actually find yourself fighting against God.

    • Alden says:

      Dear ty,
      I agree with you that Cedar has extreme views just as your views are extreme. Perhaps mine are extreme, too. You only see black & white without the nuances. Things are not perfect with the WTS, but we cannot voice any contrary opinion without threat of disfellowshipping. We’re trying to voice our opinions in this forum to find out if we’re crazy or something makes sense in what we think. We most probably will never be able to change the Society’s way of thinking, but it may help keep us keep our own sanity.

  18. ty says:

    it is not the society’s way of thinking, it is Jehovah’s way of thinking. I fear that you have been overreached …. you know the rest

  19. KtotheRAD (Konrad) says:

    ty, it is the Society itself that repeatedly banters the scriptures regarding Christendom that “A little leaven…” or “By their Fruits…” and yet the lack of love and the many years of corruption, deceit and abuse of the sick and weak and children which was painstakingly and systemically hidden in deference to other interests but just now barely coming to light can prove only one thing….Jehovah is likely not blessing that organization anymore, if he ever did! He is acting in a judgmental fashion which he has every Right to do just as this is Cedar’s forum and he has the Right to decide who posts here and how they behave! Get the concept? (- :

    • Alden says:

      From as far back as I remember I was led by the WTS to believe that God today ONLY deals with organizations and not with individuals, or if He does deal with the individuals then only in conjunction with the “Organization”. I now believe, however, that e.g. Mother Theresa was also blessed by God because she acted as a Christian among her contemporaries. It doesn’t require a massive organization for an individual to act Christian or in a godly way. I have come to know a great deal of outstanding people among Jehovah’s Witnesses, but the greater majority have been institutionalized and cannot think for themselves. Each Christian could let his/her light shine much better if he/she didn’t have to depend on an institution to tell him/her how to conduct his/herself but only rely upon their relationship with their Lord and Saviors, Jehovah and Jesus.

  20. Zz says:

    Cedars,

    In my opinion, you need to dig deeper as for hidden treasures. You seem to have been overreached by the ruler of this word. Recall, that thoughts like these on your websites do not only expose your weak heart,but shows that you have lost HIS Spirit and has been overreached.

    Please use your time more wisely, for example, in studying the bible with a spiritual jw.

    You may yet have another chance, please do nt blow it.

    Zz

    • Terence hackett says:

      If I want people to find my home I give easy and clear directions, the bible tells us that Jehovah does not want any to be destroyed but for all to attain everlasting life if that is the case why is the bible difficult to fully understand and why do we need a group of imperfect men to explain it to us ? Men who have constantly made mistakes and never shown any evidence of being Gods spirit directed organisation because the holy spirit does not make mistakes where as the watchtower society specialises in it. It makes no sense, no one should need to dig as to find treasure or in this case everlasting life it should be obvious because that would be the loving thing to do and not to play games with people’s lives.

  21. Alden says:

    Once again I beg; get off this topic! It degenerates the forum.

  22. SaritaJ says:

    Jessica Levy
    Seriously?
    The wts and others who worry about masturbation ought to focus more on child protection and child abuse.

    Amen!

  23. Rich says:

    The bible does not specifically mention masturbation, which is the deliberate self-stimulation that produces sexual arousal and orgasm. However, God’s Word commands Christians: “Deaden, therefore, you body member that are upon the earth as respects fornication, uncleanness, sexual appetite.” Colossians 3:5.

    Masturbation fosters a distorted and self-centered view of sex. It is considered an unclean habit.

  24. Mandla says:

    It is very clear to me that your spend 110% of your life studying Jehovah’s Witnesses and theyh beliefs while at the same time you have your own unresolved anger about them because you could not measure up to the biblical principles they teach. And if you imply that they as a religion, not a true religion, do not forget to give people an alternative because you are killing them instead of building. Why would you spend your time and energy studying a good-for-nithing religion?? Revise your motives!!!

  25. Mandla says:

    How many other religions are you studying besides Jehovah’s Witnesses, or are you spitting your poisonous venom only towards them? What does that say about YOU? The so called “members-only Watchtower Study Edition” you are referring to here is also available online, downloadable and so is readily available for public scrutiny. Are you saying you are more clever than the over 7,3 million people who view the WT as the God’s organisation??? Why then do you spend your every breath on them???

  26. Mc Bioseh says:

    Let me say thank you to all that displayed the rare courage to speak up for the truth in defense of WTBTS. One of such defender of the truth clearly differentiated a law and a moral code. A law is mandatorily backed by sanction . It’s not surprising that disgruntled persons and opposers speak abusively of Jehovah’s Witnesses , Jesus alluded to it during his ministry on earth…’if the persecuted me, they will persecute you also…’ One important fact need to be emphasized here. The society have never claimed to be inerrant, or inspired. It’s publications are not superior to the scriptures, but the truth remains that most of its critics are former members , disfellowshipped persons and dissociates…person who failed to measure up to high standards of the scriptures.

    • Cedars says:

      “The society have never claimed to be inerrant, or inspired.”… no, they simply claimed to be God’s spirit-directed channel of communication with mankind. Your point?

    • Frank says:

      Mc Bioseh,
      Christians live by the Kingly Law – the Law of Love. The WT Society spends most of its time reliving the Mosaic Law, and trying to resurrect a curious form of Christo-Judaism.

      Jesus was persecuted by the religious leaders for preaching a message of Love and Forgiveness. And for exposing their hypocrisy. He cleaned out the Temple, condemning to commercial activities of the Sadducees and priests. It will be interesting what he does to the WT Society – which undeniable has become hugely wealthy by SELLING masses of questionable literature.

      Finally, The Watchtower Society is disliked / detested by every Christian group I have ever met. You are universally called “a Religion of Hate”, hypocrites, Liars, False Prophets, and self-righteous bigots. And – a scam that “pedals” the Word of God for financial gain.

      So – your religion is hated for the BAD things that it does.
      Which is certainly NOT what Jesus meant.

      Unfortunately, you will never really know what the Christian world thinks of your organization – because you allow your leaders to blind you.

      In a way, Cedars and other folk here are performing a similar role to that of the prophets in ancient Israel – they are telling the truth about how sick the Watchtower Society really is.

      • Alden says:

        Just as with other religious organizations you can’t judge JWs individually. And those “Christians” who hate Jehovah’s Witnesses should be careful that they are not sinning against the Kingly Law, for he who hates his brother cannot say that he loves God, according to 1John.

  27. anonymous says:

    I pray for you

  28. anonymous says:

    to be forgiven

  29. Cedars says:

    Thanks for clarifying!

  30. Why do you hate Jehovah’s Witnesses and why are you religious? Do you have your own church?

  31. Hello ty. Depending on what generation you became involved with the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., you may realize that much of what you state here is directly from the “Society” or “Organization”‘s literature and or policy. Yes, 42 million Watchtower magazines isn’t the Bible but Bible spin. So, your comment cannot be unique to you. Millions others taught by the Watch Tower Corporation, Watchtower Corporation or Governing Body, will no doubt mimic the Governing Body’s voting results policy as well. Should you dare to research your doctrine and policy, you will discover these policies have changed many times during the relatively brief history of your religion. Do you realize the topics you voice here reflect the society’s opinion and are subject to change at anytime. I suggest you remain silent until you receive new light. It’s sad that you don’t realize you are under mind control.

    Also, when has Jehovah spoken to someone of our generation as He did with Noah and others? What more important work do you have but the preaching and disciple making work? To look after orphans and widows in their tribulation? If you believe this preaching work somehow makes you righteous, you are sadly mistaken. You are simply fulfilling Jesus’ command. Little may you know your student may prove to be within Father’s Grace and not you. Do you read in the Bible where it states it’s not by our own works lest we should boast about our salvation? Before you comdemn anyone of being “apostate” or in need of help from Jehovah’s Witnesses, I suggest you exercise humility and remove the plank from your eye before attempting to remove the speck from Cedar’s or anyone else’s eye. We’re talking love here and Father’s Grace, not self-righteousness based upon our works.

  32. Alden says:

    “not forget to give people an alternative because you are killing instead of building.” Good point, Mandla!

  33. solomon.s says:

    Is there any dressing code for JEHOVA’S WITNESSES? All are says that dressing should be clean and moreover dressing way should not distract others is that true?

  34. searchingforhonesty says:

    you are like a gnat trying to derail a steam train , you will go the way of all the others, but it is quite amusing to watch .

  35. emeth says:

    The website is doing great ! See alexa(dot)com for some statistics. And starting January 2013 things will get even greater !

  36. Am from Africa in Japan .
    Now listen Cedars u very surface and not deep with your level of understanding the Bible. You to study the bible with me, and l will help understand. U need help ! About contradictions am ready to help you see no contradiction at all . “No comes to me unless my father draws him “said Christ . No wonder all you see are contradictions because you were drawn by Jehovah .

  37. Am from Africa in Japan
    Now listen Cedars, you are very surface and not deep enough.your level of understanding is the bible is in confusing you. You need to study the bible seriously and prayerfully. I read your sentiments, opinions and comments 97% of them are not truths. Contradictions about the Jw.org are not true think deeply and you will see no conflicting . When Jehovah call one he even helps through but without his help you contradiction. I did not your response please accept were you are wrong because you not perfect

    • Cedars says:

      Christopher

      You’re not the first person to come on this website and tell me I’m wrong. Many have done this before you, and not a single one has been able to satisfactorily point to anything in my articles that is untruthful or misleading. It would be impossible to do that because I quote from the Bible and the Society’s publications themselves. Any opinions I may express are offered as my own, and not in such a way as to ram them down someone else’s throat in the manner that you seem to be approaching me now. I suggest you read the following post and then re-examine your reasons for offering me help, and the purpose and aim of this website.

      http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/is-jwsurvey-org-an-apostate-website

      If you have any meaningful suggestions on how I can improve this or any other article, please email me at cedars@jwsurvey.org. If you continue to troll this post, I will have no choice but to kick you off the site.

      If you disagree with my methods or way of thinking, by all means visit another website or start one of your own.

      Cedars

  38. Because witnesses can’t masturbate t

  39. because witnesses can’t masturbate they seek relief by marrying at a very young age with all the accompany problems that brings, I speak with experience and authority on this subject

  40. Edward Shaw says:

    Greg
    I also think that you lose some of your edge when you get to your masterbation topic. I would remove it, if you are really trying to show the faults of the Watchtower to genuine searchers of God.

    I also agree. I read on and found that the richness of your earlier discussion and the points you had effectively made, were being weakened and “scattered” by this relatively trivial and single issue. You had the jugular….and then you slowly started to let go. Why not end the article with the bang? The MB issue helps us forgrt the real issues you discussed!!!

    • Cedars says:

      Thanks Edward. When the article was written, a masturbation video taken from JW.org was going viral on YouTube, perfectly illustrating why the JW.org-experiment was already backfiring.

      To explain the relevance of the video, I needed to break the news to some with a sensitive disposition that masturbation is mentioned nowhere in the bible and can therefore not be labeled unscriptural, or a sin of any kind. I make no apologies for doing that, even if I recognise that perhaps it would have been better handled in a separate article.

      The video has since been pulled from YouTube to spare the Society’s blushes, but one or two similar videos have since been uploaded. It seems they have a whack-a-mole job on their hands.

  41. ck says:

    I have never seen such a distorted view of what witnesses really teach from the Bible. they build up not tear down as you have done.

  42. Greg says:

    I was just reviewing my response to you Cedars since you claim that I am a JW defender in my responses. Sadly it appears you were wrong again, I was actually trying to help you have a stronger point in your main article by removing the silly subject of masturbation that for some reason you and your friends can easily prove that God is perfectly fine with. I think your responses to me is what has molded my feelings toward you, and why I don’t like your attitude. If you are really interested in helping JW’s to convert, which you’re not, because you have nothing for them to convert to, you should discuss more serious matters, such as their beliefs that go against scripture like that Abraham, Issac, and Jacob will not be in the Kingdom of God, but CT Russell will be. Why they take out Jesus in 1 Peter 1 in the NWT (in the footnote in the big Bible) when talking about Jesus’ spirit being in the old testament prophets. Why They change the account in Acts where Stephen prays to Jesus. Why they ignore Thomas’ response to Jesus as “my lord and my God.” Why it is acceptable to add Jehovah into the New Testament, but not acceptable to use the greek septuagint (which is older than all surviving hebrew transcripts) for translating the old testament which uses LORD in place of YHWH. Why Jesus would lie when saying that he would be with his Church until the end of time, but really mean he would stop being with them right after the apostles died and wouldn’t fully be with them again until 1870 something, or is it 1919 now? It is a joke.

  43. Matt says:

    In response to your view on disfellowshipping family members and ‘shunning’, I point you to Matthew 10:34-37 “Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man’s enemies will be persons of his own household. He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me.”

    In Jesus’ own words we see how we should view family members who are unrepentant in their sins against Jehovah. We see examples such as when Adam chose Eve over God, and when Korah’s sons stood apart from him in the wilderness.

    • Cedars says:

      Matt – you’re probably uncomfortable with reading Christ’s words in context, but given the fact that his overall message was one of love, the quoted scripture clearly refers to opposition toward Christians by their relatives rather than the other way round, i.e. the shunning of family members. How else would you explain the parable of the prodigal son, where no clear repentance was shown (only “worldly sadness”) but the son was welcomed back anyway with open arms? In any case, even if you think shunning of relatives is acceptible over moral issues (which I don’t), you cannot possibly excuse the shunning of relatives who disagree with an organization that itself admits to being wrong in the past.

      • Cedars says:

        By the way (regarding context), the fact that Christ was here discussing ostracism by non-believers is clearly evident by verses 32 and 33 where it says: “Everyone, then, that confesses union with me before men, I will also confess union with him before my Father who is in the heavens; but whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens.”

        Of course, if you really want to believe in cruel un-Christian teachings you can more-or-less bend any scripture to suit your viewpoint.

        Cedars

    • Anonymous says:

      Matt
      In response to your view on disfellowshipping family members and ‘shunning’, I point you to Matthew 10:34-37 “Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man’s enemies will be persons of his own household. He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me.”
      In Jesus’ own words we see how we should view family members who are unrepentant in their sins against Jehovah. We see examples such as when Adam chose Eve over God, and when Korah’s sons stood apart from him in the wilderness.

      Hello Matt. We know Jesus’ sword which will pit family members against each other is the way each individual will view Him, not the way individuals view the WatchTower Society’s policies. Read WatchTower publications very carefully. Most writings are mere suggestions. Elders take these suggestions and run with them, teaching these suggestions as “The Truth”.

      An individual’s relationship is with Jesus and Jehovah. Since these Two read hearts even after a person is disfellowshipped, the individual’s repentence may be acknowledged by Jesus and Jehovah, our Saviours, not the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., a publishing business.

      • Frank says:

        Anonymous, thank you, good comment.

        Regarding the “suggestions” made by the Soceity, it goes deeper than that. This case study will illustrate what is happening behind the scenes:

        A young teenager got baptised to please her mother. She left home as soon as she finishes school, and was inactive for some 30 years. She then decides she should start associating again. She makes good progress, and tells the elders that she has a smoking problem, and is doing everything she can to overcome it. They meet as a body, review all the circumstances, and decide that her decision to get baptised was made under coercion, and that she is, as far as the congregation is concerned, a non-witness.
        All goes well, until a letter arrives from the Society. A relative of this woman, living far away, has heard of developments, and has written the Society. Why has this person not been disfellowshipped? The elders investigate further, and discover that the whistle-blowing relative has a personal bias ( maybe even malice) towards the returning “prodigal daughter”.

        So the elders write back to the Society, and confirm that they have investigated, and believe that their decision is the correct one.

        In response the Society despatches two senior representatives, who proceed to threaten the elders that if they do not “fall in line” with the Society’s “suggestions” – they will find themselves removed. And perhaps subjects of further action. Which is what happened. Some of the people moved, to escape, and some got “hunted down” and are now ex-witnesses. Unhappiness all round.

        The Organization, we are told, is always right.

  44. Alden says:

    This does not justify the use of torture upon non-believing relatives – and shunning is torture!

  45. Matt says:

    Your own context quote just further proves my point. If a person does something wrong in the eyes of Jehovah and Jesus and is unrepentant about it, then they are in effect disowning them, to which Jesus stated that he would disown them in turn. If we accept someone that Jehovah has disowned to be a part of our life then we are choosing to side with them instead of Jehovah.

    As for 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 you state that it does not say it applies to the ‘family circle’ to which you are correct, but it also doesn’t say that the ‘family circle’ is exempt either. It says to anyone called a ‘brother’ which as you pointed out would be anyone in the congregation who unrepentantly sins. The key word there isn’t ‘brother’ but rather ‘anyone’. Certain family connections can’t be put off as easy, and the scriptures allow for necessary family matters to be handled with such ones. It is up to the individual and their relationship with Jehovah to decide exactly what constitutes necessary family matters.

    Essentially that’s what everything comes down to, our own personal relationship with Jehovah, not with the organization. Yes the organization isn’t perfect, it’s made up of imperfect people, but even the first century Christians had issues that Paul had to keep reminding them about. That didn’t mean that they weren’t his chosen people.

  46. ty
    You permissive people are crazy. Those that lived in Noah’s time also thought they could do as they please, without consequence. They were all destroyed in the flood! Guess what? God only approved of Noah at that time. There weren’t a whole variety of acceptable religions on the earth. Why was Noah saved – He was doing Gods will. He was a preacher of righteousness and he followed Gods instructions and built the arc. Shew! that was hard work – It must have been restrictive. But the bible says – “Noah did just so”. Obedience is key to survival.
    When Moses and Joshua let the Israelite’s into the promised land and conquered many kingdoms, it was clear that only they had Gods approval. They were Gods approved congregation on the earth.
    When Jesus and his apostles were on the earth (Mathew to Revelation) only they were approved by God. No other religion was acceptable. Why were they approved by God? They were obedient and were doing Gods will.
    Ummm? notice a trend here?
    So how can we identify the truth in our time?
    OPEN YOUR EYES! – Who are doing Gods will today? (Certainly not the Author of this blog). Who are obedient to the bibles teachings, who are teaching others about gods kingdom? And very importantly – who are called by God’s name – Jehovah. The bible says he would take a people for his name. – Only Jehovah’s witnesses.
    The watchtower prints more literature than any other organization on earth. Not good enough for you? Well all this literature is offered with out cost and supported purely by voluntary contributions. It is an amazing organization and clearly has the backing of the True God, Jehovah. In fact it is his organization.
    How foolish it was for those during Noah’s time to ignore his warning about the flood. They must have laughed, ridiculed and jeered at him….Until the floodgates of the heavens opened.
    To those who ridicule Jehovah’s organization, think carefully. You might actually find yourself fighting against God.

    Hello Ty. We know the Bible characters you mention were saved or chosen to do great things because of their works or doing God’s will prior to their calling. By God’s Grace He chose them for His Glory. Moses was simply minding his own business as was Noah and the fishermen, tax collector, ect. apostles. It was after God’s Grace chose them to do His Will that they did His Will and earned the Bible’s description of their character.

    Likewise, it isn’t by us being good, obedient, saying Lord Lord or producing 45 million Watchtower magazines per month as a publishing giant or doing something we think is great in the natural world. It is only by Grace in the spiritual world.

    Before you assume certain ones are ridiculing Jehovah’s organization, please understand there is a difference between ridicule and sharing true and necessary information. Are you aware much of WatchTower policy is based upon Pharasaic-style rules which the Bible is silent on. Many of us understand ridicule has no solution. Information sets the atmosphere for solution. When is the last time you researched the legal enity called Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc.? When is the last time you read the Bible without the conjecture of the Governing Body? The spirit of the scriptures is love and Grace not sacrifice, or imposing of any unscriptual rules.

    By the way, the “works” which Apostle James spoke of is not preaching work. Read the contex.

  47. Alden says:

    Jesus uses the reference to a sword but who carries this sword by its handle, the unbelieving relatives or the believer? It’s possible that unbelieving relatives shun the believer because he or she is “odd”, but the believer only tries to win over his contemporaries with love. The believer resorts to love as his or her “weapon”.

  48. Alden says:

    Are my comments not worthy of any note?

  49. Frank says:

    Masturbation is evidently of serious concern to the WT Society – evidently more so in the Bethel homes, where dozens, maybe hundreds of young people are housed together, and in daily contact with each other – but marriage is controlled.

    Readers might like to remember that before 1972, Bethelites were NOT allowed to marry – if they wished to remain in Bethel. That was WT Society Law. Just like the Catholics – forbidding to marry. (1 Tim 4:) Led to some very tragic situations – Bethelites who married secretly, others who got involved in immorality. Very simply, Bethel is a very unhealthy environment – in many ways – but that is another (very long) story. As the saying going, it looks “nice from far, but is far from nice”

    There is of course the infamous account of the Bethelite who was cruelly victimised for pointing out to NH Knorr that as Knorr had just “given himself permission” to get married, he (Knorr) should leave Bethel.

    To read more, Google “Charles De Wilda”.
    A truly fine example of WT Society love in action.

    [Best account seems to be in the chapter: Memoirs of Bill Cetnar, in The Four Presidents Of The Watch Tower Society by Edmund C. Gruss]

  50. Alden says:

    Hey forum members, I just saw a recording of a Billy Graham show from 1982. I was surprized to see how much the old guy had learned in the meantime!

  51. Frank says:

    ty,
    please read the other pages of this blog before you comment. You would find that the points you raise have already been refuted. However, for the record, something for you to think about:

    Called by the Name of Jehovah
    You first of all quote Acts 15: 15 – 17. However – is there any evidence that that 1st century Christians were “called by the name Jehovah”?

    If so – please supply, with references from reliable secular sources.

    In the meantime, readers might like to remember that Acts 11: 16 clearly states that BY DIVINE PROVIDENCE the believers, first known as ‘The Way’, became known as CHRISTIANS.
    In Acts 26: 28 Agrippa says to Paul – you would persuade me to become me to become a CHRISTIAN.
    1 Peter 4:16 says – those that suffer as a CHRISTIAN need feel no shame.

    And, consider the book of Acts. Most of the people the Apostles and other Christians preached to were Gentiles – with little or zero knowledge of Judaism. Where is any record that the disciples preached anything except the Good News about the Christ? If it had been so vital to preach about Jehovah, surely it would be mentioned? And given equal importance?

    Under the tutelage of the Watchtower, you completely lose the message of Christianity – to be WITNESSES OF JESUS CHRIST. What you have is a curious type of Judaism with Christian overtones, with most of the emphasis on the Hebrew Scriptures. Entire pulications dedicated to the books of Kings, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel (twice) and the ‘minor’ prophets.

    Secondly, Russell started publishing in 1879 – yet it was only in the time of Rutherford, 1931, that the decision was made to take on the name “Jehovah’s Witnesses.”

    Why the 52 year gap? Or was it the case that Rutherford, hugely concerned that masses had left the Organization after the failures of the “firm predictions” about 1925, decided that a name change was urgently needed, to make a fresh start?

    About the supply of literature “without cost”.
    Please – be honest. The letter from the Society was very explicit – that publishers were NOT to suggest or imply that there was no cost involved. Hence the little contribution bags marked WWW. I was there – I have clear records of the event.

    And, as you must agree – the publishers now carry the cost. And if a congregation does no submit sufficinet money to the Society, it receives a letter, reminding the congregation of it’s obligation to support the World Wide Work. And – if the congregation still fails to respond, and investigation by the Circuit Overseer determines that they are in a financial position to contribute – then the Society suspends literature shipments, except for essential study articles.

    Prior to this, all literature was bought and sold at the Kingdom hall, at prices determined by the Society. Literature servants had to maintain inventory, and make reconciliations. Which were carefully checked by the Circuit Overseer. Not surprisingly, people outside the Organization concluded that it was running a commercial business – and therefore taxable. Hence the hurried change-over to a “new arrangement” in the mid 1990s.

    Are Jehovah’s Witnesses the only ones preaching the Kingdom? Only people living in their own little world could suggest that. The Plain Truth at one time surpassed the Watchtower in circulation. There are any number of journals, web-pages, and other Bible-based publication in circulation. Many Christians simply use the Bible. Just the like early disciples did. My suggestion to you is, you need to get out more. Talk openly with people from other “denominations”. If you refrain from arguing with them, you may just learn that they are not as ignorant as they are presented to be – and in some instances have a more accurate grasp of Bible truth than the Witnesses do.

    Final thought from Peter – Acts 10: 34, 35 – “For a certainty God is not partial, but in every nation the man that fears Him and works righteousness is acceptable to Him.”

    Interesting words – considering that Cornelius was neither a Jew, nor a proselyte, (and not yet a Christian) – at that point he was simply a God-fearing Roman Army Officer.

  52. D. M. George says:

    I was df for many years. I’m now back. The ONLY REASON I came back is so that my brainwashed (my own doing) kids would talk to me. I made a mistake. Yes! But did that one mistake erase all the good I had done as a hard working father, providing materially and spiritually for them? In the eyes of the effed up minds of the “elders” it did. So I came back. I’m a jw now to them so I can visit with my own children again. But know this: JW’s and the society are corrupt from the top down. (I know, i was an elder from when they first made elders in 1972) If the only incentive for remaining a JW is to be able to talk to your own flesh and blood then I must conclude that Jesus has failed miserably in his mission. Take away the sting of leaving the JW religion and watch the mass exodus. Indeed their enforcement of disfellowshipped laws is the only thing holding this religion together right now. So I go to meetings and sit and ride around in a car a couple of hours a month and mow some grass for free and swab out a John on occasion, because if I don’t I will loose my family that I raised without the help of one effen elder!!!!!!

  53. D. M. George says:

    JW’s Claim to preach the kingdom message. They say they have covered the earth spreading the good news of the Kingdom. That because of their work Matt 24:14 is fulfilled and the great tribulation is upon us. Strange that when you ask some if they have ever heard of JW’s they will most likely say yes. But if you ask what is the main teaching of JW’s you will get a blank stare! Then perhaps a list of things JW’s don’t believe like holidays, voting,blood transfusions etc. but you will never hear someone reply that JW’s believe in Gods Kingdom. Why not? Because they don’t ever talk about it. Not at their meetings or from door to door. Not even in their publications. Only brief token mention of it can be found in all the above mentioned places. Take the challenge you JW’s ask anyone you meet if they know JW’s then ask what they believe. If you are truly teaching and preaching the Kingdom message as you claim then that is the answer you will get…..but you won’t because you don’t .

  54. Frank says:

    Alden, please read the comment carefully. There is no mention of hatred toward JWs as individuals. Most folk feel sorry for them, especially for the young ones – all deceived into following a man-made Organization.

    Scripturally, as you know, it is quite correct to hate what is bad. The Watchtower Society is merely reaping what it has sown.

    To conclude, would you mind if I ask you a question: based on your present understanding, is it necessary to be a member the JW Organization to qualify as a real Christian?

  55. Frank says:

    For those interested in developments in other languages here’s a link to a Serbo-Croatian site:

    http://www.svjedoci.net/

    [Google translate tries its best, and most of it is readable.]

    Topics Discussed: 1914, 1975, Did Jesus appoint an Organization to act as his ‘faithful and discrete slave’? False Prophecy, This Generation . . . and Should Christian Have A Cat (more below)

    Sample:
    Topic: God’s “organization”
    “The attempt to compel all men to think alike on all subjects, culminated in the great apostasy and the development of the great Papal system” – Watchtower Reprints, September 1, 1893, p1572

    “Beware ‘Organization’. it is completely unnecessary” Watchtower Reprints, September 15, 1895, p1866 (CT Russell)

    Followed by a pretty thorough discussion of the issues

    Whatever you do – read the article:

    SHOULD CHRISTIANS HAVE A CAT?

    A delicious piece of irony that perfectly illustrates how the WT develops its ‘official’ doctrines

  56. Alden says:

    Very nice to meet you, Frank! I just don’t like putting all JWs into one basket. I know some very devoted and sincere witnesses. You pose a very good question, however, that deserves a good answer; no, I no longer believe that membership to the Watchtower Society is necessary to please God. It is only a reference. True salvation only comes from our relationship to our Saviors Jesus, the Son of God, and to his Father Jehovah (or Jahve if you will). Organizations may be of help, but not always. The institutions have a bad track record in general and the WTS is not exempt from this. I am a very religious person by nature but I abhor religious fanaticism in all its forms. I even recognize that I have fallen prey on occasions, which I regret deeply. The WTS has some very good doctrinal points: to this day I remain a “Unitarian” in my beliefs; I do not believe in a hellfire of torment, and to take up arms and participate in human wars is abhorrent to me. So the Witnesses do not have everything going against them. It’s their allegiance to the WTS that is disturbing because many have made a “golden calf” about it. The word “faithful and discreet slave” departs from their lips more often than the name of our Lord Jesus. The danger is that it has induced many to acts normally contrary to their Christian demeanor; especially the shunning and blood policies. To convince a mother to never even write an email to one of their children, for example, reminds one of fascist or communist dictatorships – horrifying! Unfortunately, as far as organizations go, we’re still in a grocery store where we have to pick the good fruits from the bad. My Christian love to all in the forum!

  57. Frank says:

    Thanks, Alden,
    likewise, good to meet you. (Pity we can’t get together for coffee and a really long chat.) Your comment is a good summary of feelings and viewpoints I also share, look forward to reading more from you.

    Read something interesting about the role of Organizations – they can be like a tutor, leading us to Christ – Galations 3:24, 25.

    All the best, Frank (the one from sunny Southern Africa)

    • Alden says:

      Sure Frank, we’ll have that cup of coffee some day!
      Yes, organizations can tutor us when they take their grave responsibility seriously. They can never substitute the Christ who is the Head of every man. They must be like John the Baptist who never dreamed of rivalry with the Christ. Cheers mate!

  58. Mandaley says:

    This is very interesting. I certainly will check out that source you referenced in your comment. If what you wrote is true, how selfish of N.H. Knorr to decide he alone should get married. I have also witnessed a few of these very sad moments in Bethel history. WT policy is not unlike the demands Catholicism makes on its priests and nuns and one of the clearest signs of apostasy!

    An example of the tough rhetoric on marriage JWs are subjected to week after week appears in the May 15, 2012 WT. After referencing the mixed marriages of repatriated Israelites in Ezra’s day, it states: “A Christian who marries an unbeliever is not exemplary and lacks real appreciation for God’s gift of marriage. Entering such a union after baptism can cost one some privileges among God’s people. And it would be illogical to expect blessings while admitting in prayer, ‘Jehovah, I deliberately disobeyed you, but please bless me anyway.’”

    How arrogant to presume what prayers God hears. What an abysmal misapplication of Ezra. Christians today are not natural Israelites responsible for the survival of temple worship and the Holy Seed. Even the admonition in 1 Corinthians 7 can be understood in the context of “community of goods,” where Christians had to be wary that non-believers were joining their ranks solely for the charity involved. There are just too many examples and principles in the Bible that condemn the control of marriage.

    • Alden says:

      Hi Mandaley, nice to meet you. Marriage is a risky adventure wherever you go. While being a JW myself I wouldn’t wish my worst enemy to marry one, unless the other person is of the same frame of mind. The Society uses the wrong approach here. They are adding insult to injury when they make such a judgement. The person may or may not regret marrying a “non-believer”, but it doesn’t help to give them another kick when they are down or to rob them of a good conscience because they have found their mate of a lifetime. You can’t put all “non-believers” in one basket either. One sister who had married a non-JW said that, if given the opportunity again, she would marry him all over! That doesn’t get published in the magazines. Marriage is a matter of heart and we don’t dare trespass on people’s hearts.

      • Mandelay says:

        Hi Frank, I haven’t been here in a while due to computer problems, but I appreciated your response to my comments. Interestingly, the five pre-baptism questions on marriage do not delve any further than the basics…I will post more shortly.

  59. Mandaley says:

    Oops! I apologize. My comment was in reply to Frank’s comment Jan 19 at 9:37 am. I am not sure how to or if I can link my reply to that particular comment.

  60. Peter says:

    D. M. George

    The bible says that only a small amount of people would hear the good news of the Kingdom, Satan blinds people to the truth about Jah’s kingdom.

    The bad is always easier to remember, the Good takes work and repetition because it is easily
    forgotten.

    ☺Tell the same person a dirty Joke and he’ll recipe it by heart

  61. Alden says:

    Dear Peter, nice to meet you. No doubt Jesus said that the road to life is narrow and few are those finding it. Besides hoping that we are on the right road, what we are worried about is if not the Society is making things more narrow than necessary. Jesus also said that we should have life in abundance. Does that not also apply to our present lives? How can anyone presume to tell a mother to never speak or write to her child ever again before certain conditions are met, or to tell a mother that it is “better” that a child die rather than it accept a blood transfusion? Hasn’t the Society overstepped its jurisdiction? These are among the most prominent transgressions that are continually being admonished on the part of “Caesar”, but being turned a deaf ear. There are many smaller issues, too, that could be ignored when only involving theological issues. But when lives are affected drastically by the decisions of an institution of imperfect men, don’t we have the right and obligation to make our own decisions withought duress? The head of every man is the Christ, not any human committee, and He will be the judge. May you have peace.

  62. Frank says:

    Thanks for your comment, Mandaley.
    Would this be a good place to mention the cases of the sisters who married elders, and then had to seek divorce because their “god-fearing” husbands abused them? Among those who have grown up in “the Truth” the rate of divorce appears to be about the same as the general population. Not to mention the couples that stay together because divorce would not leave them free to remarry at some future time.

    Or what happens when the WT Society invites itself into people’s bedrooms, and private lives, and suddenly there is a weird “menage a trois” situation.

    Or the way the WT Society likes to get control of the womenfolk
    (2 Tim 3: 6 ) One well-trodden path is to persuade the wives of men regarded as “free-thinkers” (i.e. independent) to inform on their husbands. Reminds me how Saul used his daughter to try destroy David.

  63. matt says:

    its funny when you look at numbers and statistics. “Are you saying you are more clever than the over 7,3 million people who view the WT as the God’s organization??? ..”

    Ceders is 1 in 7 billion or so people who don’t view the WT as the God’s organization. Are 7 billion more clever than 7.3 million? If it was only one person, Mandla, who believed in the WTBTS you would still say Ceders was thick! lol

  64. KtotheRAD "Konrad" says:

    Matt,
    By your “bandwagon” logic, your own charges as a JW against Christendom and especially the Catholic Church which once was and apparently still is guilty of the very things that the Watchtower Society hypocritically pointed a finger at while squashing it’s own skeletons….would prove invalid. Simply put? Your logic based on numbers is childishly inane. It’s reality of who and what the “Faithful and Discrete Slave” is or will prove to be or was it merely a question and what Jehovah is doing right now that you have the issue to cope with and not Cedars or anyone here! “Worship that is pure and undefiled” as well as “as befits holy people” and “stop touching the unclean thing…and I will take you in” are all to be considered. It doesn’t say where the unclean thing is. Unclean is unclean!

  65. Ann a.k.a Gypsy Sam says:

    Cedars,
    I’m curioius to know if you receive higher web traffic today and for the next few days. The chairman closed the Memorial talk last night with a plug for the jworg site. He said it just that way, without jw-dot-org, so I wonder if you’ll get any curious misdirects. Hopefully, if they come here, their brain will be in the on position and ready to learn the truth about the truth. Thanks for all your hard work.

  66. George says:

    This comment is not evangelical.

    What is happening right now is just like what happened in Paul and Jesus’ times.

    I know perfectly well that this will happen. I’m not supprised because even Jesus was considered as a mad man by other. Infact if you were alive when Jesus was on earth, you all would have spoken against him. That’s what apostates do.

    You be careful, the most important work on earth right now is to preach about “The good news of God’s Kingdom”. Why will you speak against those who are doing it, meanwhile you are not doing it too.

    Are you all to assigned to judge?

    Do you all remember what Gamaliel told the other Sanhedrin members at Acts 5:34-39? “……………Do not meddle with these men, but let them alone; because, if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown; but if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them; otherwise, you may perhaps be found fighters actually against GOD”

    Do you also remember what Jesus said at Mateo 13:24-30 about the wheat and the weeds?

    THIS IS NOT YOUR WORK. STOP IT, OR “YOU MAY PERHAPS BE FOUND FIGHTERS ACTUALLY AGAINST GOD”

  67. So glad to be out says:

    George
    Your comment, with the attempt to scare, is meaningless. I left over 30 years ago. JW scare tactics are for those who live in fear. Why did you come onto this site? With an open heart to learn or with a closed mind to hurl abuse? Perhaps with some reflection, you may want to apologise? I will not hold my breath, as I know most JW’s do not known about humility or freedom of thought. I hope one day when you find out that you have been duped by a multi-million marketing machine, that you will go into recovery and will have some good years with out guilt or fear. You will realise that all your fearful threats were what you had been taught by a very powerful, crafty multi level marketing effort. Thats all – You will no doubt be sad about the deceit, but you will be free to think, breath and express yourself. I hope your wake call is sooner rather than later.

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