The JW.org 2013 Annual Meeting video – honest highlights or bible-hugging spin?
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JW.org has released a video promoting the Annual Meeting at which the new Bible revision was released

JW.org has released a video promoting the Annual Meeting at which the new Bible revision was released

JW.org has released a polished new publicity video showing highlights from the 2013 Annual Meeting, at which the revised New World Translation was revealed by Governing Body members.

The video, which runs to just over seven minutes, ends with footage from various English-speaking lands showing members of the 1.4-million-strong audience waving and hugging their new Bibles enthusiastically.

One clip, which can be seen at 6:18, even shows a woman from Canada holding her new Bible to her face. Thinking Witnesses will be wondering why unbridled adoration of what is essentially a revision of an existing book is quite so necessary or admirable.

Curiously, the video of this ‘historic’ meeting does not feature certain parts of the program that left listeners like myself bemused and disturbed.

For example, at 0:55 Guy Pierce is shown promising that Bible truths will be refined, but the video doesn’t show him asking his audience to follow him in reading Proverbs 4:18 – thus heightening expectation for “new light” on the scriptures that would never be revealed.

Gerrit Lösch is similarly treated kindly by the filmmakers. Visitors to JW.org who watch the video will be spared from seeing him tell his audience that they should “not let family ties overshadow bible principles,” and that “relatives who are not in the truth and not on the way to accept it could exert a negative influence in our lives.”

Geoffrey Jackson’s joke about the new Bible being “sister proof” is also notably absent, as is the same speaker’s bizarre insinuation that Jehovah manipulated the weather at Wallkill so that more copies could be printed. Sadly and predictably the makers of this video have stripped their production of virtually all the most cringeworthy elements in the Annual Meeting, leaving only the feel-good moments and adulation.

And it is not the first time that Watchtower history has been altered through some nifty editing.

The vanishing flags of Cedar Point, Ohio

In the opening sequence of the new video, footage is shown from Watchtower’s recent “Faith In Action” DVD series to depict “pivotal” events in the organization’s history. It should be noted that film footage exists of Charles Taze Russell, Joseph Rutherford AND Nathan Knorr – but none of this was used by the filmmakers. Instead, re-enactments by actors were cleverly selected to depict key moments in a polished and sanitized way.

For example, at 0:16 you will see an actor portraying Joseph Rutherford delivering his famous “advertize, advertize, advertize” speech at the 1922 convention at Cedar Point, Ohio. The footage, lifted directly from the 2010 “Faith In Action” DVD (Part 1), shows the stage at Cedar Point with plain wooden boards at either side. You are doubtless thinking, “Yes, but what is the significance of this?”

If you turn to page 299 in the Daniel Book (Pay Attention to Daniel’s Prophecy), or page 259 in the Proclaimers Book (Jehovah’s Witnesses – Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom), you will notice that American flags were originally draped either side of the stage at the Cedar Point convention of 1922. It is difficult to make them out because the photos are in black and white – but they are unmistakably there.

But in Watchtower’s recent sanitized version of its history from the DVD, the flags have vanished. In the space where they would have been draped either side of the stage, wooden boards are cleverly inserted.

The purpose in removing the flags was undoubtedly to avoid ‘stumbling’ any Witnesses by presenting them with uncomfortable evidence that the organization was once not quite as politically neutral as it would like to admit.

Some would argue that this is only a minor issue and Watchtower was doing nothing wrong by re-writing its history in this way, but consider the following words from page 13 of the 2011 Yearbook…

“In summary, the Writing Department insists on using only material that is accurate and truthful, even regarding seemingly insignificant details. As a result, ‘the faithful and discreet slave’ can consistently supply spiritual food that brings honor to ‘the God of truth,’ Jehovah.—Ps. 31:5.”

Image over substance

Why do I highlight the above discrepancy? Because it demonstrates perfectly what Watchtower is increasingly becoming – a vain organization that is pre-occupied with spin and self-publicity rather than the interests of its adherents.

The inclusion of the doctored Cedar Point re-enactment at the beginning of this latest video sets the stage (if you will excuse the pun!) for what is to follow – a carefully manicured piece of propaganda designed to stir the emotions and gloss over any idiosyncracies.

Geoffrey Jackson holds aloft the revised New World Translation

Geoffrey Jackson holds aloft the revised New World Translation

When listening to the Annual Meeting program in its entirety, it was apparent that the Governing Body were cleverly building anticipation for the new release from the beginning.

Jokes were made by Governing Body members about the shortage of Bibles without any apology for the decision to keep ordinary brothers in the dark as to what was happening. Such unwarranted secrecy led to confusion and distress, to the point where some wrote to Bethel to ask what was going on – but even this reaction was made the subject of joking and flippancy.

Then, as shown at 2:50 in the video, Geoffrey Jackson teased his audience by implying they would need to wait to receive their new Bibles before pulling his grey rabbit out of the hat. “You don’t have to wait at all – here it is! The newly released revised New World Translation!”

Immediately after this point in the video children can be heard singing “we thank you Jehovah” – rather cheaply and cheesily reinforcing the idea that God is directly responsible for the new Bible.

Against the backdrop of children singing and applause, at 3:00, 3:05 and 3:15 women are shown wiping tears from their eyes. The melodrama and hype is tangible.

Adulation of the Governing Body then ensues as sisters are shown (at 3:54) laughing hysterically and clapping at Steven Lett’s joke about Guy Pierce “twisting” the new Bible. This is followed at 5:15 by Anthony Morris reminding his audience that the new Bible is a “wonderful gift God’s given to all of us.” And at 5:49 a sister beams with awe as David Splane delivers some feel-good words. “The Great Jehovah can cause you to succeed at any assignment he gives you whether at Bethel or in the field.”

new-bible-release

Scenes from the new JW.org show adulation and hysteria over what is essentially a book

As the video reaches its climax, the focus on adulation of the new Bible becomes more obvious. Once the sister in Canada has held her new Bible to her cheek at 6:18 a number of scenes follow to the sound of recorded applause and a string accompaniment.

At 6:26 another smiling Canadian sister clutches the new Bible to her bosom. At 6:38 a group of brothers and sisters hold their Bibles up for the camera. And at 6:43 an entire audience of brothers in Britain flap their Bibles in the air in a scene reminiscent of Chinese crowds at communist rallies.

The video ends with a young red-headed Canadian boy smiling at the camera as he holds aloft his new Bible as the closing captions fade in, and the string music reaches its heart-tugging conclusion.

Too much to ask?

Some will say I am being harsh and over-critical in calling attention to the clever editing, rewriting of history and appeals to emotion in this video. But I do so because I believe this and other videos represent a dangerous attempt to deceive people through the tried-and-trusted means of propaganda. And it is my Witness family who will be among those swept along by the fervor and hype.

If Watchtower wants to publish a highlights video for what was essentially a glorified pep rally, where the Governing Body rode to the rescue to solve a problem they themselves had created, they are more than welcome to do this. But can’t they at least try to do it honestly, and include the less savory moments? I don’t think I ask too much.

After all, 1.4 million may be an impressively large audience, but it is still only less than a fifth of Witnesses globally. The majority of Witnesses will be completely in the dark as to some of the more disturbing elements of this year’s Annual Meeting, which betrayed a side of their leaders most are unfamiliar with. And by the looks of this new video, that is precisely how the Governing Body wants them to remain.

 

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93 Responses to The JW.org 2013 Annual Meeting video – honest highlights or bible-hugging spin?

  1. Babs Mason says:

    This fairy tale book is an abomination of God’s word. They have removed scriptures and changed the meaning of words to match the teachings of the cult. They have completely ignored the warning in Rev 22:18-19 which says if they do this they will not be written in the book of life. Amen

  2. Sue says:

    So glad that you watched it and I did not have to, thanks Cedars!

  3. Just Thinking says:

    This revision seems just like the one they did at the Ministry of Truth in Orwell’s 1984… rewriting history with a video, so as if that past didn’t actually exist, and only what is said now has always been the truth.

  4. Erik says:

    Does anyone know how many changes have been made to it? I’ve only heard of one, where a Proverb’s been changed to “I need a drink.”

  5. disconcerted says:

    Seriously, they always surprise me, even when I think they can’t do anything more ridiculous.

    Very good points about the flags, Cedars, I did not notice that before. It reminds me of my first commemoration in the US back in 2005, after I move from Colombia. My congregation in Texas rented a hall for the most important event of the year, so you can imagine that I was aghast when I saw the American flag in one side of the podium. I just could not comprehend why they would not do anything about removing it (which then I learned it was illegal), or finding another space for that matter. How could we have a flag in the most sacred event in the world!!! Then I had a conversation with my parents when they told me that my grandma, who lives with one of her non-witness daughter, used to have the book study in her house (in the old days!), and they took it from her because her daughter -the provider of the house- decided to display a christmas tree. The elders could not aprove of a pagan symbol to be in the same house of a Jehovah’s meeting!

  6. Rowland Nelken says:

    The Bible hugging and veneration is in keeping with many traditions in Christendom. In Padua some years ago I found the crowds pressed round the tomb of St. Anthony, anxious to touch or even kiss it, whereby to benefit from the late saint’s saintliness, rather disturbing. Protestants, with their ‘sola scriptura’ foundation are natural Bibliolaters. JWs are simply a variant on this. They are ‘New New World Translationolaters’.

  7. Jamie Clark says:

    Movies are made in editing as so much of its message is from the music, dialogue, shots, and how they are all edited in, or not in. A great PR campaign toward the new revision, and leaving out the reality of the “sister proof” comments and ignoring the needs of the R&F for bibles and ministry support.

    Just so hypocritical of the GB and its JWorg.

  8. dummerchris83 says:

    I dont see why they are excited…… theywill change again (thier bible) in less than another 30 years,lol.

    Great Article Cedars!

  9. Jehovah the Hill says:

    @ Babs

    Read without prejudice the Bible itself, whatever translation it may be, is an abomination against quality literature, common sense and humanity. An open-minded rereading of the Bible coupled with an equally open-minded examination of science and history soon after I left the Watchtower actually was one of the main reasons I no longer believe in God.

  10. oompaloompachick says:

    I am new here and have enjoyed the information very much. I am a fader, as they call it. I have been gone for almost 17 years and have never returned as an active member but went to an assembly over 5 years ago. I didn’t leave due to erroneous information but dub to the lack of love shown for someone in need of spiritual assistance. Rather than show help they encouraged the elder body to withhold it, and the rest has been quite peaceful thereafter. Regarding the above information, it makes me think of North Korea. With all the changes to just about everything this year alone, I am glad I left. I never want nor will belong to another religion. I will take my chances with God and Christ.

  11. Luv2hugapug says:

    It is awful he Governing Body would alter history and be selective in what they put in the video. It is like any other propaganda video. I am not at all surprised.

  12. At 3:47 — WHAT is the guy doing with his right hand as he spoke? Hmmmm….

  13. Rob says:

    I would disagree and say it was a very impressive effort to deliver the program worldwide to more than a million as well as have Bibles for them. Compared to other religions such as adoration of the pope or going to their sacred cities – this is an organization putting Bible education first – I really can’t think of anything they do that is comparable. It is easy to spot shortcomings in a human but in the first century Paul was criticized too for his appearance was ‘weak’ and speech ‘contemptible’ (2 Cor 10:10). As for the flags, it was legally required back then to have flags in public auditoriums; it was hardly a choice they made. (note, this ‘survey’ site welcomes JW opinions. I do not read comments after leaving my opinion)

    • Cedars says:

      Rob – first it wasn’t “worldwide,” but to English speaking countries. Check the map at 0:47. Streaming a program to 1,830 locations may seem like a miracle to you, but remember that almost anyone can stream stuff nowadays thanks to the internet provided there is someone interested in receiving the stream at the other end. Or do you think the Governing Body alone is responsible for the “miracle” of the internet?

      It’s also interesting that you should mention “adoration of the pope” (ahem, Governing Body) and “sacred cities” (ahem, bethels). The ability of apologists to miss the increasing similarities between Watchtower and the catholic church never ceases to amaze me.

      Once again the bruised and battered “leave them alone, they’re only human” argument is wheeled out. As I said to one of your fellow apologists shortly before ejecting him from the site – that argument does not hold water for those who are prepared to think, of whom you will find plenty on this website. How many times do I need to say it before the likes of you understand – you CAN’T have it both ways. If the Governing Body are only “human” and imperfect, then they should be acting accordingly, and offering their teachings humbly on a take-it-or-leave-it basis.

      Instead they demand absolute subjection to their authority as those “taking the lead” in God’s earthly organization, and slur as “mentally diseased” any who dare to disagree with them. Most unforgivable of all, they dish out the most barbaric and sadistic punishment to those who defy them – estrangement from loved ones. So don’t you dare come to me with “they’re only human.” It simply doesn’t wash, and I won’t hesitate to block you from making further comments if these turn out to be similarly misleading and insulting to our intelligence.

      And if flags are compulsory in public auditoriums, which is hogwash by the way (have you seen how many flags there are in that auditorium in some pictures?) – why not hold the meeting in the open air, if Christian neutrality is so important? And if your explanation is so innocent, why didn’t Watchtower “man up” to having the flags in their DVD re-enactment? In stooping to defend the indefensible, your arguments soon unravel.

  14. alanv says:

    I regularly comment on the Topix website in the Jehovah’s Witnesses forum, and one of the points that came up recently was how Watchtower change their written history if it suits them. There were several examples of this given and not one JW was willing to challenge what ex JWs had shown them. Cedars has shown that the governing body are still at it today. Anything to make themselves look good. Honesty is not a word they seem to understand.

  15. Rob says:

    Cedars,
    Whew! You sure unloaded on me. I thought I should check comments in case you weighed in.

    OK as I understood it, it was an English language Bible so English speakers were the only ones invited. So my congregation was not invited (foreign language cong in the US). We had a kindly reminder not to get worked up about it but ‘rejoice with those who rejoice’. Yes I know about podcasts and live streaming but try to put a book in everyone’s hands simultaneously.

    I have commented elsewhere about the ‘human’ argument. The first century congregation had similar men. It is all Jesus has to work with! Paul had certain issues *with* the ‘older men and apostles’ in Jerusalem because they needed to be corrected. He said “James and Cephas and John, the ones who seemed to be pillars” (Gal 2:9). Yes, Cephas, Peter, the man with the keys of the Kingdom.

    I have also commented elsewhere on ‘estrangement’ or DF. Please read my experience. I have relatives who are DF but are not practicing sin and we are not cold or mean to them. But if they were a pedophile do you think I would let them babysit my child? Is the counsel 2 Jo 10 to ‘not even say a greeting’ then even more inhumane? I’m trying to fit my reasoning in with the Bible.

    Regarding the flag, that’s all I know; that it was required by law at that time in the US. I really can’t see how it was a compromise. Would they have to go to the extreme of having their summer convention in an open fairground with no seating or shade? I guess we can all make our own judgement.

    As for the re-enactment scene, funny story in the news that is kind of like it. Obama recently gave a speech a Georgetown and required all the religious symbols be covered in the camera images (http://tinyurl.com/8xkg9uj). I personally don’t see that as a huge issue but it is one of the reasons I visit your blog because it *is* interesting.

    • Cedars says:

      Rob, I apologize for “unloading” on you, but you must understand – this is the wrong site to be playing the “leave the poor Governing Body alone, they’re only human” card. If you want to personally believe that the Governing Body are akin to Christ’s apostles that’s up to you – but please don’t go foisting such absurdities on everyone else just because that’s how you’ve been trained to think. Ask yourself – what is the evidence? Zero. Christ supposedly came to Earth in 1919 and selected a drunk, a bully and a racist named ‘Judge’ Rutherford to be one of his faithful and discreet slave, just so he could spend 94+ years cleansing his organization so that in 2013 it could have a new gray Bible and a School for Kingdom Evangelizers. PLEASE think about this logically! It’s totally ridiculous to all but the most indoctrinated!

      I say again – if the Governing Body want to play the “we’re imperfect” card they had better do so by fully acknowledging their errors – and this involves NOT punishing any who disagree them in the most perverse and sadistic manner possible – by weaponizing their families against them.

      Congratulations – you’re a reasonable person and defy the Governing Body by keeping contact with your disfellowshipped family – but please be pragmatic enough not to assume all Witnesses interpret Watchtower’s commands in the same liberal way.

      I’m glad to see a bit of reasonableness in you, but I ask you please to do some thinking and not leap immediately into “must defend nonsense” mode when confronted by information that challenges your beliefs.

      As to the flags being compulsory – Watchtower advised Witnesses in Malawi to endure rape, murder, and theft of homes and property rather than purchase one “compulsory” party card in a one-party state. Think on that.

  16. Christian Sparlock Freedom says:

    Whenever the Governing body boasts that they alone are
    “Gods Channel” of info to all of mankind.

    They are describing a PROPHET . But they whine that despite numerous false prophecies they are only human.

    They want to have it both ways . What egregious hypocrites they are .

    They are cunning deceivers and charlatans . They are everything they hatefully call their well informed critics.

  17. If they are putting Bible education first, then why do they insist on publishing vast amounts of literature that AREN’T Bibles? Especially when they must continually update their old, erroneous teachings with “new light”? Shouldn’t they just be publishing Bibles only, and teach directly from that?

    • alanv says:

      Hi Tami, I’m afraid if you mention that to a JW they will remind you of the story of the Ethiopian Eunoch who was helped by Philip to understand the prophet Isaiah. They will say that shows you need help understanding the bible which is what their literature is for.

  18. hanna moore says:

    I think it’s pretty easy to respond to the Ethipion Eunoch story. Right after He was baptised, Phillip was taken away. So, he didn’t stick around and disciple him. So all the guy needed to hear about was Jesus. They did not have the New Testament then, so the Eunoch didn’t have access to the information that he needed.

  19. imacountrygirl says:

    Rob commented “(note, this ‘survey’ site welcomes JW opinions. I do not read comments after leaving my opinion)” seems to be pretty clear that he doesn’t read comments left after he has made his, sort of like a drive-by comment. That comment seems to be…how shall I put this delicately?…a lie.

    Oh wait, he is only human after all. He is not held to a higher standard than any of the rest of us.

    On the other hand, the governing body, which is the direct link to Jehovah God and his earthly organization, the mouthpiece of God, (so to speak), is not held to any higher standard than the rest of us mortals either.

    I know I’m not the sharpest crayon in the box, but something is wrong with this picture. Is any other person or group of people on earth right now in 2013 claiming to be in such a privileged position that they have a direct channel to God?

    If they do have this direct channel to God, why does God keep on making human errors….like lying and clever deception?

    I too, believe I will take my own chances with Jehovah God and Jesus and not use the governing bodies channel….their communication system seems to have a glitch.

  20. April Smith says:

    I bet you dont! Cant take any criticism,just like the organization you serve. Its all about apperances, it always is. If the organization was truly interested in its followers and the real truth, it would be honest about its past, not break families apart… you cant compare this organization with faithful people in the bible, Anyone or religious group could do that to explain shortcomings. I dont think anyone expects perfection…just honesty. The organizations roots are steeped in “paganism,” and untruth. Its strange that it the reason Christmas isnt celebrated in that organization, and when it comes to “overlooking” its own past…theyre ALL for it.

  21. John Hoyle says:

    Some quotes from George Orwell’s 1984:
    “It’s a beautiful thing, the destruction of words.”
    “Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.”
    “He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.”
    “If both the past and the external world exist only in the mind, and if the mind itself is controllable – what then?”
    “And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed—if all records told the same tale—then the lie passed into history and became truth. ‘Who controls the past’ ran the Party slogan, ‘controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.”

    It has been my opinion for many years that the leaders of the Watchtower have studied 1984 very closely and have patterned their choice of words and processes using what it teaches. If they can convince their followers to only believe what they say, no matter what they say, then eventually they will control those minds. As Orwell described in his book – no matter how bad or wrong they might be, they are the “truth” because they say they are the “truth.” And that is the definition of “truth.” All other truths (differing opinion, science, physical evidence, verified and documented history) are all “lies” because the Watchtower says they are “lies.”

    I strongly suggest that everyone read (or re-read) Orwell’s 1984 and Animal Farm and then think about those parables in terms of the Watchtower Society and its techniques.

  22. Ocma says:

    Hypocrites! So correct, one of the main reasons I got away from them.

  23. kat says:

    how many fingers am I holding up.
    four

    correct

    but I say five

    how many fingers am I holding up

    five

    wrong but correct

  24. Silent Majority says:

    (be surprised when the number of casualties was disclosed on the “newsroom”.) it is so sad to hear that a lot of JWs died in the philippines when typhoon Haiyan hit its central part. and they say “Jehovah has brought good weather so they can print bibles.”

    Totally awkward!

  25. Shakeem says:

    “… the Governing Body rode to the rescue to solve a problem they themselves had created…”

    This is a very profound statement that struck a chord with me. It reminded me of what Dr. Thomas Sowell once said regarding intellectuals. He essentially stated that intellectuals create a demand for themselves and hold absolutely no accountability for the disastrous results of their ideas and philosophies. It is explained much more in depth in his book, Intellectuals and Society.

    Here is a link to a YouTube video of him explaining this idea:

  26. JohnnyRotten says:

    I think you mean God’s word is a fairy tale. I am not in the business of defending the JW’s, but it is rich when a ‘normal’ Christian makes a snidey comment about a belief system that is almost indistinguishable from his own. Pot, kettle, black

  27. Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

    The GB are musters of publicity and manipulation. About “The Simplified Watchtower” in the article “The Simplified Watchtower—Why Introduced?” You can read:

    “A sister in England who was baptized in 1972 wrote regarding the simplified Watchtower: “When I read the very first issue, I felt as though Jehovah were sitting beside me with his arm around my shoulders and we were reading it together. It was like an earthly father reading a bedtime story to his child.” (w12 12/15 p. 29; http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/l/r1/lp-e?q=w12+12%2F15+p.+30).

    The question is: Why does the GB put sisters in the middle of all these harmful propaganda? Psychologist will tell.

  28. Liam Smith says:

    I can appreciate that you need to moderate the comments on this site mate but telling people they will be ejected should they voice and opinion you don’t agree with isn’t, in my opinion, helping your cause.
    Also as someone who was not brought up as a witness but came in afterwards it’s interesting to see the difference in some of the commenting from either side.

    • alanv says:

      Liam, Cedars has very clearly listed the guidelines for postings. Most sites have to have guidelines for fairly obvious reasons. Most people on this site abide by those simple rules, but now and again there will be someone who just wants to have a rant and not care about the guidelines. This site is not for people like that.

    • Cedars says:

      Hi Liam – thanks for your observations. For the record, I don’t recall telling anyone they will be ejected simply for voicing an opinion I don’t agree with. I welcome the opportunity to explore both sides of the argument, and I am happy to make corrections to articles if any errors are pointed out.

      What I can’t abide is those who seek to hijack this site and use it as a platform for Watchtower propaganda, especially when I work so hard and spend so much time researching and writing to make sure everything is factually based. Having someone then come on and start spouting Watchtower propaganda with no regard for the other side of the argument is like watching someone defecating on your oil painting, if you will excuse the crude analogy.

      If people want to express a viewpoint that favors Watchtower, and they can do so in a calm, respectful, non-insulting way, and in a way that acknowledges and invites other viewpoints – that’s perfectly fine. But we’ve had a sudden influx of apologists recently (2 or 3 daily) who have most certainly not met that criteria, and I have blocked them accordingly.

      Watchtower certainly has enough people sticking up for them and giving their side of the story. I won’t allow their apologists to overwhelm this site and snuff out our flame of logic and reason. I hope you understand.

  29. Emeth says:

    Your flag story makes no sense. For example in the Northern Part of the Netherlands District conventions were (till recently) held in a ice-skating stadium Thialf in Heerenveen. This stadium ceiling is decorated with dozens of different international flags and are part of the decor. So in rented facilities, on many occasions they dont remove the decor. (http://www.thialf.nl/)

    • Cedars says:

      Emeth – you are welcome to believe that the Bible Students were forced into renting a venue with American flags either side of the stage with no available alternatives in Northern America if this gives you comfort, but I for one refuse to buy it.

      As I said to Rob, Witnesses in Malawi were asked to be raped, beaten, murdered and robbed before making the tiniest concession on neutrality by buying a political party card in a one-party state. Bowing to any perceived local laws regarding flags, even if this claim can be proven, would be an act of extreme hypocrisy in this context.

      And even with the “flags are compulsory” argument aside, there is still no excuse for deliberately re-writing history by taking the flags out of the re-enactment and replacing them with wooden boards. This is the height of intellectual dishonesty.

  30. kat says:

    Shakeem thanks for that video excellent, it really does make one think, the book actually can be downloaded pdf Thomas Sowell “Intellectuals and Society” excellent read! and can see how it can configure with the GB of JW.

  31. Excelsior, formerly known as George says:

    I agree with Cedars. This is a classic spin.

    But it isn’t anything new. The Old Testament is full of spin about a bunch of goat herders, and how they conquered the Promised Land under Joshua. There are many other examples.

    What chance do the poor individuals in this cult have if they base their entire religion on a book that is full of spin!

    The bible makes outrageous claims about what happened on this earth long ago, that have been disproved by science.

    Giants? Demon dads and people that lived into their hundreds? Please! A worldwide flood? Absolute nonsense.

    So, yes, Cedars, they are spinning their awful religion in a feeble attempt to make it more palatable for the rank and file.

    May your site continue to hold up the WTBTS to scrutiny.

    However, the elephant in the room is that the basis for their beliefs, the Bible itself, has been proven to be wrong on a plethora of points.

    Jesus said that a house built on sand will tumble. Well, I believe the bible itself is so full of inaccuracies that anyone basing their life SOLELY on the bible will find it very difficult to live a moral life in modern society.

    The bible has some merit, but it is not the arbiter of morality that it once was thank the goodness of humanity!

    It is time for us all to cut the apron strings and acknowledge that the bible has some good advice, but that it is littered with myths and inaccuracies.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  32. Sue says:

    Im a country girl.
    You are pretty smart, you are out and you are not defending the indefensible.
    As for the defence of the flag, no one seems to have answered, why, if it can be ignored as an issue, that it has been air washed out of the new video? Recording history can be embarrassing. I wonder which bright spark, made that decision, perhaps they will be admonished down the road for lying?

  33. Sue says:

    Isn’t Sowell, the black conservative intellectual, from Stanford University? It was said of him, I think, Sowell likes history but he likes it on post-it notes. There is a useful review of his book here.
    http://chronicle.com/article/Skewering-Intellectuals/64113
    “In the Conservative Series on American Politics, Sowell has given us the Idiot’s Guide to Intellectuals, Big Print Edition. We should take him at his word. This is not a book for intellectuals. It is a gift item for conservatives who do not read”

  34. 70wksofyrs says:

    Cedar’s I like your views about this DVD. I haven’t had the stomach to watch it yet. But now I have the bone I am better prepared.

    70wks

  35. Dear Cedars! Polish EXJW’s and Faders are sending warm greetings! All the best to you and all “brothers” on this good planet! May Jehovah bless you all with Watchtower that will have two pages and will be issued every six months! Keep up the good work! :)

  36. Rob says:

    Cedar wrote: “As I said to Rob, Witnesses in Malawi were asked to be raped, beaten, murdered and robbed before making the tiniest concession on neutrality by buying a political party card in a one-party state.”

    As I commented, we are going to the Zimbabwe International Convention next year. Malawi seems close by and we also have personal friends who are missionaries in a close by country. I will try to get interviews with them on the issue.

  37. Shakeem says:

    Sue:

    John Cedars’ statement about the Governing Body members toward the end of his article is what prompted me to cite Dr. Thomas Sowell’s book, Intellectuals and Society. Inasmuch as he essentially argues, as explained in the YouTube video above, that intellectuals create a demand for themselves by fostering the idea of a crisis in their minds. The leaders of the WTBTS persistently inundate JW’s with information suggesting that the end is imminent (the crisis) and that the only way to survive Armaggedon and make it into the “new system” is through them. (the solution)

    Whether you agree with his stance on political issues or the argument he presents in his book is a discussion to be had on another blog. Out of respect for Mr. Cedars, it’s only right that you focus your comments on the information being discussed in his article.

  38. Julia Orwell says:

    Saying JWs are ok because they’re ‘better than the other religions at least…” is like saying at least cocaine is less destructive than heroin so it’s ok to use.

    Guess what, it’s still destructive…

  39. Hakizimana Jean de Dieu says:

    Those who believe JWs are better than other religions are victims of Watchtower’s propaganda.

    “when the image of the beast first appeared, the churches of Christendom—an influential part of Babylon the Great—dominated the Western world. Today, the churches and their ministers have lost the respect and support of the masses. In fact, many people believe that religion contributes to or causes conflict. An increasingly vocal and militant group of Western intellectuals is calling for the end of religion’s influence on society.” (w12 6/15 pp. 17-18 par. 16; http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/l/r1/lp-e?q=w12+6%2F15+pp.+17-18+par.+16).

    Here, the GB is insinuating JWs is not concerned! I believe JWs are among the worst religions, killing silently. Jesus said “(Matthew 7:15) 15 “Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves.”

  40. Sue says:

    One of the many good things about being out of JW’s is that you are allowed to think, comment and voice an opinion. Essentially, I agree with your argument. Although, I would say knowledge does not necessarily mean a person develops an intellectual mind. I also think there is nothing wrong with having an intellectual mind.
    Sowell has an agenda, just as the JW’s do, so for me it was relevant to question the analogy. I would not presume to suggest what Cedars thinks. His articles are well researched and thought out, and as far as I could see he did not reference Sowell.

  41. Irmão, percebi que as duas bandeiras externas – as que se encontram no madeiramento, não poderiam aparecer no vídeo. Repare direito que os postes – madeiramento externo – onde deveriam está as bandeiras nem mesmo aparecem na foto do vídeo. Obviamente, portanto, a foto onde se encontram as quatro bandeiras está sem o devido zoon no palco, o que faz com que as bandeiras externas apareçam. Entretanto, a foto do vídeo dos do Corpo dos Governantes foi tirada de uma perspectiva onde não dá para aparecer as bandeiras externas.

    Desta forma, eles só esconderam as bandeiras internas, as que se encontram logo à direita e à esquerda do palco.

    Apóstolo TDS

    Translation per Google Translate: rmão, I realized that the two flags outside – those found in Timber, could not appear in the video. Notice that the right poles – Timber external – where are the flags should not even appear in the video picture. Obviously, therefore, the picture where there are four flags is not due zoon the stage, which makes the external flags appear. However, the picture of the video of the Body of the Rulers was taken from a perspective where you can not appear outside the flags.

    This way, they just hid the internal flags, those that are just right and the left of the stage.

    apostle TDS – AdminJeni

  42. dino m says:

    Gebelsov nacin propagande. Ili komunisticki nacin propagande u kombinaciji sa Bogom . A sada djeco kada bude prolazio u paradi TITO svi masite crvenim zastavama . Mahanje sa Biblijama po zraku je cista budalastinja.

    Translation per Google Transate: Translate from: Croatian
    Gebelsov way propaganda. Either way, communist propaganda, combined with God. And now the kids when he walked in the parade TITO Masite all red flags. Shaking with Bibles in the air is pure budalastinja. – AdminJeni

  43. John Baptist says:

    Thank You Cedars for forcing me to look at that video. lol just kidding. It has been 20 something years since I sat at a assembly hall listening to the pre-programed outlined talks devoid of true spirituality and honesty. It was as if I was in a time warp listening to the hype over a Published Book by Gods supposed Channel. The more im distanced from not being involved anymore, and the hearing about the conduct of my witness relatives, it just makes me happy I have nothing to do with people who are totally indoctrinated into the Watchtower belief system. To them its all about being right and winning arguments even when presented with evidence from their own publications. I had one witness tell me after showing him a comment from a watchtower that the watchtower I was reading from was published by a group of apostate witness’s. Imagine that reply? Well I sent him home to compare that article with the watchtowers library on CD that he had and guess what? I never heard back from the Fella. In fact I said I would be more then happy to study the bible with him and told him to come back on a certain day to which he didn’t. The thing that disturbed me most is the little children sitting there between Mommy and Daddy and how I know when they get older they are really going to be besides themselves trying to get a real hold on life. I almost felt as if I was watching a electric church sermon and they were looking for praise and money for what? For revising the Bible? Give me a break!! It’s not Advertise Advertise Advertise its give me give me give me your money!! When more emphasis is put on the making of the Bible then whats in it and how you personally can benefit from it then you are only left with a Bible Publisher with the intent of making money off of them. The hypocrisy of this organization is second to none. Keep up the fight at showing reality based on well researched fact’s that expose the falsehood of this organization hiding behind the guise of Gods chosen Channel.

  44. Free Thinker/Non-JW says:

    @Tami Dickerson

    Seriously! What was that?

  45. Vincent Deporter says:

    Everything said and done, the video has one undisputable dishonesty: the editing of history in order to appear better than they are.

    This wouldn’t be such an issue if this was a rare cheat; but because the WTS has been sanitizing their history for decades, this is just more evidence of ill-intent and calculated propaganda.

    If Jesus really exists, they will have to answer to their lies and deceit… fortunately for them, after 2,000 years of his promised “eminent” return, it is fair to say the WTS is safe from any heavenly punishment.

    There is no Justice.

  46. tiger says:

    Thanks Cedars for taking off the spin, or maybe more appropriately taking what was hidden in the dark and bringing it into the light for an honest examination of all of the facts.

    Excelsior, I really liked your comments and could not agree more. It is nice to see someone that believes in humanity as we grow to protect civilization and a better way of life for all.

    Cedars, I would like to make an observation in regard to the flags and ask if you would be willing to open discussion on a topic that I feel all of this clearly underscores.

    The American Flag vs. The Governing Body. After leaving just over 2 years ago for my children and being honest with my family, I faced my mother who I love dearly being diagnosed with stage IV cancer and being devastated by my leaving. I could not sink back to the tyrants and frauds that run the organization. I fell into a deep depression, as I knew no one else who had left. My wife felt lost as I am sure so many have. I lost so much materially as well due to my depression.

    After 43 years of faithfulness, I was nearly destitute and needed help for the first time in my life. The american government stepped in to lend a hand for my material needs and offered me help for my depression. My wife and I were assigned a case worker who since has become a close friend who we love and her family is very dear to us. She helped us with our needs materially and even emotionally making sure we were OK.

    As an elder I met with so many that needed help materially, and we did nothing for them as a body. A few times I would give them gifts to help, but I was warned about this and advised to send them to the government for aid.

    The Flag represents our country, good, bad and indifferent. Yes it represents politicians, many of whom are spin doctors if not all. However this is not surprising, because most humans make mistakes and wish to be remembered in a good light. Please note I did not say it right, just not surprising, before anyone misinterprets what I am saying. I will say this, though, I myself have been guilty of painting my own actions or my motives as closer to perfect than they truly were.

    The Governing body, spin doctors, yes, claim authority the same as the government and even boldly challenge the government. Like the government they have their own meeting chambers, doctors, lawyers, maids, cooks and private embassies (bethels) all over the world with special places decorated and set up exactly the way they like. However much different than the government. They give nothing back to those in need. They are unwilling to help those truly in need without a profit motive. Also if they are terrible and glory hounds you cannot have them impeached or elect new ones. They are a self appointed group. They take people’s time and money and offer nothing back. When people do not put enough in the box, they come up with bogus arrangements like the disaster relief, to take money from their followers for insurance work that is done and done with free labor and a lot of donated materials sending the profits into the stratosphere for them. When you are in need they have nothing for you. They use the very government that they claim no allegiance to and show that government no respect.

    The governing body needs to respect the flag of a great country and of other nations that provide them with the freedom to promote their ideals, no matter how ill conceived and deceptive they are. If they don’t want to salute it, fine it is your choice, but to delete it abhorrent when they send their adherents to its agencies for aid after taking their money and time. If they are the earthly government leaders under Christs Control, then feed your own people, Jesus did on so many occassions. The truth be told a flag should be in every kingdom hall in the elders meeting room along with a state appointed social worker that actually cares for and helps people.

    My suggestion, remove Rutherford and his speech and leave the flags.

    • Cedars says:

      Thanks for sharing those thoughts tiger, and your feelings on the issue based on your experiences within the organization.

      To be honest I am less concerned about the role of the flag in religion and more interested in exposing Watchtower’s blatant hypocrisy and their Orwellian whitewashing of history, of which the “vanishing flags” affair is an excellent example.

      • A searcher for truth says:

        It is not the flag representing a country’s authority that is the problem, but the idolization of it that is the real issue here, something that I did not really understand before when I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

        Of course that is my opinion for what it is worth.

  47. GladILeftTheJWs says:

    It’s amazing how the WTS refers to its history when it suits their needs. At this link here you can see a well documented history of their beliefs circa 1925 at http://jehovahswitnessesrefuted.blogspot.com/2010/12/ever-changing-world-of-jehovahs-witness.html

    What burns me is how the WTS can re-enact images of these times KNOWING VERY WELL that their doctrines have changed 360 degrees since then. In the 1920′s they still celebrated Christmas! Why not show a re-enactment of JWs celebrating xmas in the 1920s? Oh…it’s because it doesn’t fit with their marketing agenda. Ultimately that’s all this is about, getting the mindless publishers amp’d about their new product so they can drop more $$$ in the donation box and collect more at the door and on city streets. Disgusting to say the least. The fact that a GB says that God’s truth has been refined is horrible. How can a human being REFINE what God has provided? Are we saying that God can’t communicate properly with humans and is need of the help of some stuffed shirts? I

  48. LMC says:

    Tiger,
    I am not shocked at what you say. I myself am going through a horrible experience because of some in the org that has left me materially devastated through no fault of mine(long story not ready to share and no I didn’t get involved with business deals gone bust or investment schemes) Suffice to say that someone (Pioneer) lied about us we got dragged into court twice and we won but we are left materially disadvantaged because of legal fees. We have had no help even though we went to the elders. No one wants to deal with it. So…..here we are! I am digging out of this mess foisted on me by a “loving Pioneer” who is still Pioneering…….

  49. tiger says:

    After reading your most recent post about the Governing Body and their spin and white washing the past I felt this was a good time to share a topic with you and ask for your help. Please review this as a possible topic. I realize this is your website and appreciate the content and integrity to the facts you carefully research.

    In the United States it is a crime to write a bad check to someone and depending upon the amount, it is either a misdemeanor (more minor up to 1 year jail time) or a felony (possible prison time) for checks over $1,000.00 in most states. It is viewed as a crime of theft as a person takes the goods or service of another in exchange for a worthless check. Checks much like promissory notes are a promise to pay.

    Please consider the following. Since childhood we were promised that God’s new world was at hand. We were told to use our youth in service to that Kingdom and in exchange for our time and efforts we would be rewarded with a paradise, good health and everlasting life. That promise had a very specific time period on it. Before the generation that saw the beginning of Christ’s reign (1914) passed away. Well they ALL are dead. As for our payment, 0.00, Nothing, Nadda, Nill. We were written a bad check as the terms were spelled out clearly in the Watchtower.

    Or consider this I promise a young boy or girl in the neighborhood, that I will pay them generously for mowing my grass at the end of the mowing season. At the end of the season I tell them they will have to wait until a future time to receive their pay, a time that I will let them know as I am waiting on God to reveal.

    Review the situation from a legal standpoint. If I had initially told them that I was waiting on God to tell me when they would be paid, then the decision to mow my grass and subsequently not be paid could fall back partially on them for taking such a bad arrangement. However it is not likely that in a court of law that they would not receive some kind of restitution for their work and I would be labeled a nut “crazy person”. However there was a specific time period in which they were to be paid and once that time passed, it is definitely a civil matter for which their would be an easy verdict in favor of them being paid and punitive damages imposed as well.

    The Governing Body and the Watchtower Bible Society Inc. have made promises in exchange for the goods and services provided by many of us during our life time. I gave up my youth and college to go to Bethel and pioneer for 10 years. Many on here have done the same and have given up careers and financial stability for these liars. However a lie isn’t just a lie when you take the belongings of another in exchange for that lie. It in fact is a crime and yes it is very punishable. They hold the wealth from our work, they hold most of the money from the sale of my grandfathers farm. I want it back! I want restitution made to all who were lied to in exchange for a piece of their lives!

    Not some $1,000.00 bad check nor a promise to pay for a season of mowing, rather a promise to pay for a life time of work, a promise never honored and they tried to conveniently sweep under the rug. Their days are numbered, because without money they will wind up selling snake oil and run a new con on people, or hopefully better yet, serve some time in prison for their actions.

    As for their bad check, you were not allowed to question that promise that the end was coming so soon or you would have been labeled an apostate. You are not allowed to hold “private views” that differ from what the “slave” teaches. As an apostate they would summarily rob you of a good reputation and turn your family against you. You were forced into finishing the job even if you had doubts under the threat of mental terrorist tactics.

    The Governing body and those at Bethel believe they can say anything if they use the right tone to say it. That how something is said is more important than what is said. They are wrong! They can say “new light” sanctimoniously, however that does not dismiss the fact that what they said is a manipulative lie to defraud and it is them and the WTBTS inc. that made that promise, not the Bible, not God and not ONE other religion. This was not a misinterpretation of scripture, but as all of the other previous dates prove, it was and is a way of amassing huge profits and insuring their life of ease and glory.

    There are tons of references that can be made to show that they “as the kingdoms earthly representatives” are liable for these lies and in many cases for the irreparable harm brought to so many. All of us deserve to have restoration made for our tremendous financial losses and their tremendous financial gain. I have a couple of cases of witnesses that died as a result of their mismanagement of water and mold mitigation during their disaster relief work. The payment to their grieving families was the false promise of a resurrection and paradise and the lingering knowledge if they were to sue the WTBTS they would be shunned. I am withholding their names until we bring all of this to a trial. There is alot of evidence to show their greed, duplicity and outright promises and threats and defamation of the character of those who have left. All of these things are crimes that are punishable in court. If we want our families back we must strip them of what they truly value the most, money! I am doing much better financially and am willing to pay the upfront costs in starting a class action suit here in the U.S.

    Please excuse me Cedars, but if you do decide to post this comment on your website, I would like to address the Watchtower members who read this.

    The WTBTS is going to go down. Why do you think they incorporated each entity and separated all of the Kingdom Halls out? So when this happened it would be hard to find all of the money. Additionally most of the Kingdom Halls are either set up as trusteeships or corporations and have not properly held their meetings as required by law. Many if not most are open to being taken by legal action. I know this because I am still on the board of trustees at a hall where I served over 10 years ago. It is a matter of public record that I recently looked up. If you are a witness, do yourself a favor and join us. Because without money the WTBTS will fragment into many other smaller religions and you will be at a loss as what to do. Surrender and lets dismantle this religion and use the money for something good. Like truly helping others, starting with our own families and then our neighbors and our countries by doing something good to contribute to everyone elese’s welfare.

  50. tiger says:

    Great point, you and alot of the people that comment on here, I really enjoy hearing from. I really enjoy the viewpoints of so many and your willingness to give us a place to be heard and listen to the voices of others. Thanks Cedars!

  51. tiger says:

    LMC, our hearts go out to you.

  52. tiger says:

    For anyone needing help financially. If you live in the United States, the local department of human services and the Housing for Urban Development offer help to any U.S. citizen in need. You do not have to be completely broke to accept the help. The help ranges from healthcare, to food benefits, housing benefits many of which helps you stay where you currently are. Most importantly they can assign you a case worker to help you know what you qualify for and help to get you right back on your feet and going again. It is not just words or reading what some man in the middle east wrote hundreds of years ago, but real practical help.

    When searching their websites make sure the site you are visiting ends in .gov or it is not the government rather, most likely someone looking to take further advantage of you. Best wishes to all.

  53. LMC says:

    Thank you Tiger. The fact that “Spiritual” people in the “true” religion can lie through their teeth and get away with it is unbelievable! All I can do is shake my head at the fact that my family and I were run over by the biggest bus that ever left the station and we were left like road kill is simply unimaginable. I am getting government help but I am just numb thinking about how many years I slaved for this org, gave my money to this org, didn’t continue with my education (and now look at me! I’m living off the government!) is just a cruel! I thought Jehovah blessed his people with good things. I had quit my job to pioneer as the brothers always tell us to do and instead I was left in the biggest financial tailspin of my life because of what happened to me and my family! The abuse put on us and now the financial burden we are put under is just mind blowing! Thank you for you kind words and advice!

  54. I’ve read all the comments on this blog and observed that bandits of the watchtower like Rob love poping in with their cynical uncouth out-of-age edited lies they call truth. The GB’s mind-conditioned protectors who are peny-less sad to say are continuosly being fed on BS by people (GB)who dont shed an atom of a tear if things go topsy-turvy for you. why defend people who are 100% incriminated by overwhelming evidence?…the flags where clearly seen! Today,If i chose to display my country’ flag in my room and an elder or serving servant(ministerial servant)*how ridiculous to openly flaunt rules of grammar*,i would be red-carded if this was a soccer match after a series of excruciating doctrinal cextered meetings. Least to say,iam fed up of these bastards who have lied to me for as long as i can remember. I hate their double standards,and their assumptions turned new light. They are so pathetic especially after the whole congregation knew that an 30 year old ‘elder’ was seriously molesting an under-age girl and 3 other teens(between 16 and 18) in the congregation. The ‘elder’ is now chilling in a fantastic marriage free from all the cries of justice. The GB must admit the ‘Anointem crap’ they dish out holds no water. They are a bunch of abnormal mere humans who have created a super crafted form of business,merged it with politics and then iced it with the God’s kingdom emotional idea. Free work hours! All in the name of religion!…failure to report each month and u are seriously grilled! A bunch of racist anti-development maximum control freaks that use 2different weights when analysing the same facts. Hate it or love it, bethel is more of a political house than a religious one. I sign out of this idiotic cult!

  55. LMC says:

    I wouldn’t mind so much the comment about idolizing the flag being wrong IF the sister in the photo wasn’t practically making love to her Bible. I have read the Bible many many times since I was a child and I have never hugged my Bible nor held it close to my cheek. I haven’t been to the meetings in a year and wondered whether this was a new teaching that I missed!

  56. LMC says:

    Have YOU Hugged YOUR Bible today?

  57. LMC says:

    WOW millwall andrew,
    In a local congregation where I live there is an elder who molested a teen boy about 30 years ago. He admitted doing it and went to jail but not for long. He was released is registered as a child predator and is still in the KH and NOT DF! His wife “stood by her man” and one comment from a brother to the wife was “Hang in there it’s almost over, he’ll be released soon!” It made me sick to my stomach! The brothers and sisters are sticking up for a child molester! How sick and twisted is that! How far do you have to be brainwashed before you don’t even know what you are talking about anymore? The WT now has people sticking up for molesters!! I have never seen anything like it in my life! These people are so brainwashed and twisted in their reasoning its weird!

    Can you imagine being the wife of a child molester who admitted to having oral sex with a teen boy? You can’t tell me she has been married all these years to the guy and not kissing him! Again how brain washed are you when you think that this is normal?

  58. Reader says:

    I believe that the effort to update and release a new bible is another symptom of waning donations, an effort to boost them. After all, what has more ‘value’ to a JW than a WT released bible?
    As the magazines become thinner, it would be natural that the donations become smaller too. As more and more information is digital, and deemed to be ‘free’ and available, fewer people are getting hard copies, tangible things that may spur one to donate. However, a bible is something that one uses often as a JW and one would be virtually required to have a analog copy.
    Higher ‘value’ and higher circulation = higher income.

  59. Rob says:

    I watched the youtube video by Cedars. Can I comment here? I think I see your point and would like to discuss. PS all you haters, are you no better than those you vilify. Jesus said to love those who even hate you.

    • Rowland Nelken says:

      I do not hate JW. Indeed I remember some kind and decent folk at my childhood Kingdom Hall. It is tragic that they had been beguiled by this crazy vision of an eternal earthly paradise to be gained by sacrificing one’s life to a global property and publishing corporation. Wishing to release the c. 8 million who are trapped inside a vile organisation is not an expression of hatred. Indeed it is quite the opposite. JWs love to play the reviled victim; it makes them feel kind of Christlike. In practice, so successful thus far has been Watchtower PR, that the general public usually regard JWs as simply A N Other group of religious enthusiasts. It is we who were once victims of the cult who know the grubby evil that lies behind the neat cheap suits and polite smiles.

  60. Reader says:

    You’re mind has been blinded by WT rhetoric. Disagreeing does not equal hatred.

  61. A searcher for truth says:

    To Rob, and all others who consider the Bible to be God’s final word.

    I am a regular reader of the Bible, but to tell you the truth, I believe that we are suppose to progress spiritually further than what the Bible has taught us in knowledge and in wisdom.

    While Jesus did teach us the fundamentals of the “Kingdom of God” which is the “Kingdom of the Heavens” just as the “Holy Spirit” was teaching the apostles how to progress spiritually, the same should go for all of us today who are desirous of worshiping God in the correct way and getting to know him as the “Heavenly Father” which Jesus as the “Word” had presented to us really well.

  62. Caribbean Man says:

    The word propaganda actually has its roots in religion.

  63. Justinus says:

    Hai all, I’m Jehovah Witness (still active Witness) from Indonesia. Sorry if my English is bad. I just wat to tell you something that disturbed me.

    Usually we, JW, use Luke 19:11 and Act 1:6 to excuse our false prediction in past (a ‘human inperfect’ argument). We say, “even the apostles had a wrong hope”. But, honestly, I myself disagree with this argument. Why?

    Because if we read in Luke 19:11, even if the apostles had a wrong hope in that time, they NOT TEACH it to other and say ‘this is the truth’. They just keep it for themself. And in Act 1:6, again, even if the apostles had a wrong hope, they not make a statement and teach it to others; they just ASK Jesus first (this is a wise step).

    But what we are done in the past are different. We TEACH other people and say that our teaching –about End of the World’s prediction– is TRUTH (before finally proofed false).

    I hope you got my point.

    But, of course, this is just my thinking. If I am wrong, I hope my beloved brothers (JW) in this site can correcting me. Thank you.

  64. Justinus says:

    Hai all, I’m Jehovah Witness (still active Witness) from Indonesia. Sorry if my English is bad. I just want to tell you something that disturbing me.

    Usually we, JW, use Luke 19:11 and Act 1:6 to excuse our false prediction in past (a ‘human inperfect’ argument). We say, “even the apostles had a wrong hope”. But, honestly, I myself disagree with this argument. Why?

    Because if we read in Luke 19:11, even if the apostles had a wrong hope in that time, they NOT TEACH it to other and say ‘this is the truth’. They just keep it for themself. And in Act 1:6, again, even if the apostles had a wrong hope, they not make a statement and teach it to others; they just ASK Jesus first (this is a wise step).

    But what we are done in the past are different. We TEACH other people and say that our teaching –about End of the World’s prediction– is TRUTH (before finally proofed false).

    I hope you got my point.

    But, of course, this is just my thinking. If I am wrong, I hope my beloved brothers (JW) in this site can correcting me. Thank you.

  65. Justinus says:

    One thing I realize about the faithful apostles is: they never preach a wrong teaching.

    Wrong HOPING (in their mind), wrong DOING, Yes, they did. But wrong TEACHING, no, they didn’t.

    So I think this poin make clear that Governing Body aren’t a successor of the apostles from first century, as we (JW) claim all this time. (CMIIW)

  66. Aroq says:

    My response to them on that account is:

    Did the eunoch need training to become baptized? Where did he gather further knowledge? It wasn’t from Phillip.

  67. Darrin Hart says:

    The evil is palpable. Sick.

  68. truthwillsetufree says:

    Brace yourselves……………..New World translation- hmmm……New World Order?…..any connections?…

    CT Russell- Pyramid ideas-his Creation Slide show with the Pyramid with the all seeing eye on it- the same as the back of a Dollar bill-illuminatti sign……Russell connections to Masons and illuminati familys?

    The gov body using a spiritualist and the Catholic Church to make their own Bible-The New World Translation has no one made the connection yet? The nwt was translated by a known former Catholic Priest and active Spiritist Johannes Greber by the GB!!!! I dont know how to do links but look on you tube for Johannes Greber the Watchtower scholar?.flv

    I have video evidence this is not just about the Gov Body, its part of a much bigger plan to have one world religion that has Satan as our leader. Under the one world order to worship Satan himself and Pastor Russell was in on it right from the start…. Lied to? Its more than a Lie.

    There are other videos i can let you know but i may need instruction to upload them.

    Check CTR’s creation slides, the pyramid and all seeing eye is in full view, the pyramid that when you look at the written accounts of his memorial, there were secret Books buried beneath the pyramid at his Grave. He died 31st October(halloween) i know you think im a nut but look at his date of death, in satanic worship human sacarifices are made in order to pass on the baton of leadership. To add to this CTR requested to be buried in a Roman Toga-What! Oh yes, that is Demonic symbolism of the illuminati New world order thousand year reign- thousand year Reich – love letter to Hitler now why did that nice man from Germany have such an obsession for the occult, playing out those massive parades where his devotees were all dressed in Roman Togas to symbolise the New world order of thousand years. Now what did hitler call it? Ah yes, the third Reich Mmmm. Smell any bigger Rats than you thought you could smell?

    I can back all this up, frightning i know but the GB are really not from God…

  69. truthwillsetufree says:

    Rowland. Thank you for your attempted “conversation stopper”
    Folks, if you take one thing from what i said, just look up Johannes Greber and go from there.

    • Rowland Nelken says:

      Just done abit of Greber googling. So?

      • truthwillsetufree says:

        [silly conspiracy theory nonsense about CT Russell removed]

        truthwillsetufree – if you continue to try to use JWsurvey as a platform for this nonsense you will be blocked from the site.

        Final warning.

        • truthwillsetufree says:

          Sorry, meant to say click on the Adam and Eve logo and then click on the Brotherhood and its secrets.

          CT Russell is small fry. He was just another pawn in the game plan. But you still need to checkout his credentials so you can start thinking more than ” this cannot be Jehovahs organisation” and progress to “hey maybe there is a bigger plan” after all how come he and his org are so well protected even though a little digging provides incredible evidence that he was NOT a nice man?. It’s right in front of your eyes always has been, always will unless you look beyond what they want you to see. jW is a black dot on a sheet of paper, but your so focussed on THAT Black dot to see all the other Black dots that make up the real picture.

          • Rowland Nelken says:

            C T Russell is indeed small fry; but there is no ‘game plan’. All this grand conspiracy silly stuff presumes that religious, political and other leasers are smart enough to work together, keep secrets and spread identical lies to ‘the rest of us’. All the 9/11 conspiracy theories are as unfounded as anything with ‘illuminati’ in the title.

            Re. millennial movements, JWdom is one amongst hundreds, each of which imagined it was unique and would have been horrified to be associated with most of the others. Nazism, Zionism, Joachimism, Marxism, Zoroastrianism, the Diggers, the Fifth Monarchy Men, Al Quaedr and Anthroposophists are just afew of the utterly disparate movements that, like the JWs, imagined human history, as a predetermined Paradise Lost to Regained story. One thing they have in common, however, is that they were all mistaken. For more info. see my book – ‘Paradise Delayed’

            http://www.amazon.co.uk/Paradise-Delayed-Rowland-Nelken-ebook/dp/B00HM6QFZE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396594418&sr=8-1&keywords=Paradise+Delayed+-+Rowland+Nelken

  70. truthwillsetufree says:

    http://youtu.be/VDAT-L23c2o
    If you watch this as a JW and after just think so?….

    The Watchtower society used his translations knowing fully that he was a spiritist and used spirits in seances to get his scriptural truths that they inturn gave to Gods sheep as spiritual food! Including Bible verses and other JW books and the Watchtower. The GB prefered to be guided by demonic spirits than Gods spirit to provide SPIRITUAL FOOD TO JEHOVAHS PEOPLE we have been eating spiritual (DEMONIC) food at Jehovahs table prepared for us by the GB SATANIC LIARS. I think to a person that has dedicated some or all his life to the “only true religion” and all that implies on a day in day out basis may say a little more than SO. WHAT HYPOCRITES! So, we ate from the table of Demons fed by the Faithless and indiscrete satanists and you say so? We may as well just have read the book of the dead those pesky Egyptions used that Bro Russell was so interested in!.

    We who wanted Truth or had it forced upon us deserve the real Truth of just how that Truth was appropriated to enlave and control us. We have this life once, it is precious we need to know who we were actualy giving our lives to.

    Analogy.

    Some folks only eat Organic food becouse all other food is full of poisons, chemicals, colourings flavourings etc. baisically everything thats bad for you. Loaded with sugars to sweeten it up and make it more palletable to eat. If a trusted food company was to promote its produce as the pureist most organic food you can eat, the only one grown on earth to cleans you and keep your body mind and spirit free of anything that will surely kill you. And it is the only food that the God of the entire universe endorses stay with me folks!. We discover it to contain the urine on the floor of a prostitutes bathroom that came from a client that had been drinking water from a stream that flowed through a village called chernobyl…..you get the drift. I think the organic food producing company may have a little explaining to do. May even be taken to court and sued for all the mental deformities as a result of poisoning. Charged with murder for the deaths as a result of believing its cureall statements. Fined for breach of trust. Struck off the soil associations register and likely shut down. Its head honchos imprisoned for deception, murder, using false credentials to prey on those wanting the best they could get. They would maybe even given the death sentence and hated throughout the World for effecting the quality of life of hundreds of millions (historic abuse). it would be reported world wide in the international media. So?

    Stop trying to promote your own book and think about the lives of human beings that have been lied to, made to eat at the table of Demons subjected to mind control, sexually abused, forced to reject and be rejected by family and loved ones. Fed false hopes willingly trading careers, marriage mates, children happines and true freedom for that hope. Yes we may on paper looking at the last few lines seem stupid or guillable to you but we were decieved in the most dispicable of ways. It has impacted on individuals, families communities in fact over seven million i think. Thats just today. Add together all the witnessess that have been and gone since paster Russell started, hundreds of millions perhaps?. So?

    So……..

  71. truthwillsetufree says:

    Something else to ponder,

    If we are promised a NEW HEAVENS AND A NEW EARTH…..

    Why was the JW Bible from the FADS named

    THE NEW WORLD TRANSLATION and not the NEW HEAVEN AND EARTH TRANSLATION?

    Because JW is part of the NEW WORLD ORDER THAT OBAMA AND ALL THE REST ARE BANGING ON ABOUT!

    I approached my desire to find out whats really going on on this planet and was horrified at the real truth behind the Wars and everything else that confirms our brainwashed heads that Jehovah is right. Remember folks, whether your in or out the JW’s, all the horrors in the World are still going on. Why?

    Some say there is no proof he was a Mason or a Knights Templar but IT’S A SECRET SOCIETY There isn’t going to be. Do you know all the undercover police? Undercover KGB undercover private investigators? NO they are all in SECRET?

    If there is no God -maybe there isn’t i’m not saying there is but there is still something more sinister ruling this earth.

    Look at this guy n tell me he is not a little under the influence of something a little sinister.

    My husband is a criminal defence lawyer but this was not thankfully one of his clients. He has dealt with some evil people though. He never has been a Jw but often says OMG Demonised or what! After a trial.

    WARNING DO NOT CONTINUE TO WATCH THIS IF IT DISTURBS YOU.

    But remember, these are the very same dark Spirits that were guiding The translation of the JW Bible publications. Inspired of God?

  72. truthwillsetufree says:

    Just a little more info…

    I drifted ten years ago, but been to a few Memorials since.
    Never in those ten years have i had a Shepherding call (thank goodness in hindsight). But my husband on the other hand has had very many calls from JW’s Elders included seeking his professional help. Remember, he is a CRIMINAL LAWYER. he cannot divulge any details for obvious reasons but is public knowledge post sentence because of the local paper court results list etc. Or what is reported in the media. These courts are open unless it is to do with Child abuse or such like. So anyone can go in and watch the court proceedings to discover the nature of the offence.

    These are a few of the JW’s charges with GUILTY verdicts over the last decade. Shoplifting, not paying TV licence, theft from employer, Drink driving, No MOT and/or insurance. Driving violations, Possession of illegal substances, Child Abuse, Manslaughter, Drunk and Disorder, Aggravated assault. These are but a selection. Some i am sure were accidental. We are human and all speed or go through a Red light occasionally, we just need to be chatting in the car to slip over the speed limit, it is not wilful disregard of traffic laws i think you would agree?.

    How come then if i as one of Gods sheep am in need of a shepherding call for 10 yrs for drifting ( the Elders know the enormity of my personal load) but can visit my Husband to allow him to shepherd them through the legal system?

    This is a major problem for my Husband. Not that he wants to be JW , but how they do not care for the flock.

    Spiritually i’m in the poo about to be sentenced to Death if i am not part of the org i am shunned, Ignored, forgotten, left for dead basically. ( i even have a relation who is an Elder at my assigned Kingdom hall).

    Worldly in the poo- they get care, legal expertise, advice, direction to councillors, represented to get the most lenient sentence the courts will allow. Given Legal Aid and know they can count on his discretion. He lets them phone him Day or night will get out of bed at 4AM and go down the police station to help them in their time of need. As he would anyone, hey thats his job right? But isn’t shepherding the flock the Elders job?

    Thats just in case you see the sort of chap in the video and think my Husband must be of the Devil cos he mixes with and represents these people. He is not, he is highly esteemed in the eyes of his clients, JW’s (especially when they need his services) and others involved in or with the Legal System. This includes lawyers, Doctors, Pathologists, Police, Magistrates, Judges, Crown Court Prosecution Services, The Samaritans, Child Abuse Services, Drug Alcohol Dependance Units etc etc.

    The scales of Justice in the hands of the GB (is not that one of Jehovahs qualities) are not balanced.

    Weighing up the evidence (pardon the pun) the evidence for the Defence is overwhelmingly clear that the accused (GB) is guilty of crimes against humanity. There is a charge of failure to protect-Guilty abuse of power-Guilty, Bribery-Guilty, Forcing a minor to engage in take part or read material that could cause harm (the 3 1/2 yr old spouting Rape n pillage from the platform).

    Grey areas arranged Marriage? It’s Jehovahs arrangement….
    Obtaining money or services by deception- how many hours have you done this month Brother Brainwashed or Sister Sucker? (Sorry no offence meant), contributions, contributions, i could go on all Day with Grey areas.
    They are selling a way of life so remember if it does not do what it says on the tin they are breaking the law. Do you still use the term BLOOD GUILTY?

  73. Excelsior says:

    truthwillsetyoufree,

    Demons? A world conspiracy? Please!

    There is no evidence for the existence of demons. Evil deeds are committed by human beings. Science has set us free, to a certain extent, from the prison of superstition. There will be a psychological and/or a physiological explanation. Remember, stealing is a form of life that evolution has followed, among others.

    In the post Wikileaks and Snowden era, the thought of a world wide conspiracy being kept secret is dubious in the extreme. People tend to like to boast. If they have a great big juicy secret, they just love to at least hint about it.

    The pasting that Obama will receive at the midterm elections will show that he is not that powerful.

    There are grave problems facing the world. We need to free ourselves of superstition and work together to make this world a better place. Much progress has been made, but there is still a long way to go.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  74. truthwillsetufree says:

    Excelsior,

    Big juicy secret,they just love to at least …….

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