Piling on the torment – New Moston elders allow pedophile Rose to quiz victims
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Elders at New Moston allowed released pedophile Jonathan Rose to quiz his victims at the kingdom hall

Elders at New Moston allowed released pedophile Jonathan Rose to quiz his victims

Back in December this website reported on the story of Jonathan Rose, the convicted pedophile who was sentenced to nine months for his abuse of two little girls, aged only 5 and 10 at the time.

Now Rose has been released from jail and his elders have finally disfellowshipped him – but only after gifting him the opportunity to quiz his victims and force them to relive their abuse.

Chris Osuh of the Manchester Evening News who broke the story back in October has followed up events in the wake of Rose’s release in March. In his latest article, it is reported that the victims “were told if they wanted him barred from the church they would have to recount their ordeal before elders.”

And unbelievably, “Rose was even allowed to ask the women about the abuse he was jailed for – as eight elders looked on.”

Over the course of three meetings victims were made to relate their abuse in detail, and were asked if they had done anything to encourage it. Shockingly, given the fact that all victims were children at the time, “one of the victims was asked if she had enjoyed it.”

In the third and final meeting Rose was invited to the proceedings and given the opportunity to question the women “in detail” without any of the usual measures used in court to prevent witnesses being bullied.

Though it seems inconceivable that victims of child abuse would willingly subject themselves to such dreadful treatment, apparently they went through the ordeal because they were under the impression that Rose would NOT be disfellowshipped if they didn’t attend and participate.

According to the article, Jehovah’s Witnesses do not deny these meetings took place. However, a statement issued by Watchtower insisted that victims were not “forced to attend a meeting or confront an alleged perpetrator of child abuse,” but this contradicts what is known to have taken place – namely that three young women attended a meeting they would surely have avoided had Rose been disfellowshipped regardless.

This is not the first time Watchtower has been caught lying to the media.

The shocking incident illustrates perfectly how out-of-touch and oblivious to the severity of child molestation the elders in New Moston congregation are – and it seems inconceivable that they arranged this meeting without first taking instructions from the London Branch Office.

Rose may have finally been ousted as a Witness and thus limited in his opportunities to abuse other children, but the local elders, who stood by Rose in the courtroom, cannot take any credit for this.

Rather, it seems Rose’s victims have bravely gone way beyond what might reasonably have been expected of them to help ensure the safety of the children of the New Moston congregation. And this should speak volumes.

 

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89 Responses to Piling on the torment – New Moston elders allow pedophile Rose to quiz victims

  1. tony1215 says:

    @ Kate

    Sorry to hear about your situation. I know of an elder who did the same thing to his mate. He got sick of having the children when his mother died who took care of them and decided that his ex-wife was a better mother and could look after them. He is a piece of garbage. I am glad to hear about your children leaving the WT.

    I have been an atheist for the past 2 years and it is a huge relief not to do all the mental gymnastics it takes to ignore the facts and be religious. I finally properly thanked my wife for her gift of her using her body to carry our 2 children and the sacrifice she made and the loving way she did all of that. It was not some make believe cloud flying, mountain dwelling, bling bling wearing, white bearded celestial man. It was HER, she is awesome! You are awesome for loving your children. They will not forget you nor forsake you as they get older.

  2. Micha-el says:

    To GEM and related..

    Being an occasional smoker myself it occurred to me that if they ever ban drinking Coffee as well that’s really going to Feck up my chances of being Re-instated!

    But then again isn’t it true to say that their god Je-ho-vah enjoyed a bit a passive smoking himself with all the fragrance of those sacrificial burning animal flesh ascending up into the Heavens. Am I Right or Am I Right!

    Give me a Break!

  3. Excelsior says:

    GEM,

    Thank you for reminding us that the vast majority of Jehovah’s Witnesses are trying to be good and moral people, and are mostly kind. That was my experience too.

    My dear old Mum is as upset about this and other abuse cases as we are. The only difference is that she is still suffering from the erroneous opinion that the Governing Body are reps of Christ.

    Thank you for your comments, GEM. You are not excusing this evil, and I understand the point you are trying to make.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  4. Patrice says:

    I am so angry that the organisation are the sole reason why I lost my faith in a God. I cannot accept evolution and have been floundering for many years. It make me sad when I read that former believers have also not only lost their faith, but have become atheist. The organisation has a lot to answer for. I am now a deist. It took me a long time to find this out. Believing that we were created is so important to me, and then accepting that is stopped there is so much easier to accept. With that in mind I am now able to enjoy creation once more without feeling angry that the creator observes and allows so much suffering. The thought that a loving God would allow these two sisters to be abused again just fills me with horror. Believing that he has nothing to do with this organisation or any on earth fills me with peace. The end. Xxxxx

  5. Mary says:

    “Rose was even allowed to ask the women about the abuse he was jailed for – as eight elders looked on.”

    What a bunch of sick f*cks the elders must be in this congregation. I tell you, if anyone ever did this to one of my kids, I wouldn’t even bother reporting it. I’d just take care of the scumbag myself.

  6. Micha-el says:

    At lot of news in the press recently about the success that was made of ‘Mormon’ the Musical.

    I can’t even begin to imagine what they would do with Watchtower – the Musical!

    Maybe with Armaggedon being just around the corner we could have an End of the World Party instead
    Or perhaps even an End of the Watchtower Party for 2014

    Terms and Conditions apply .

  7. freeandfresh says:

    How absurd even to think that Jehovah would depend on an elders’ decision to decide whether he kills or he rescues someone.
    He says: “Whoever has sinned against me, I shall wipe him out of my book” (Exodus 32:33).
    Also Peter says about Him: “Jehovah knows how to deliver people of godly devotion out of trial” (2 Peter 2:9).
    All this shameful behaviour of the elders clearly shows that they have neither faith nor spirit.
    Well, that is something that makes me stunned again and again, that they really believe they can meddle with God’s affairs while in reality they are as blind as a bat and cannot see even as far as to the rim of their plate.
    The first husband of my wife had been an elder, yet he was addicted to pornography, then committed adultery, he was DF; only three months after marrying the other woman he was reinstated because he’s in a “strong Witness family” where the men are all elders or MS. Did they really think they could give him security? Yes, they did.

    • Scrubmaster says:

      FreeandFresh. I agree with you on that comment. I know for a fact people have been disfellowship incorrectly. So for the GB or Elders to say a disfellowship person would be destroyed at Armageddon means they can read hearts(to be honest any JW should be afraid when they hear this types of comments, because the Elders are in essence saying they know how to read hearts). No one can read hearts or minds but Jehovah so they should not be making the claims they make about DF’d persons. I will always use the case of David, there is not a judicial committee in the JW world that would not have disfellowshiped David based on all he did with Bathsheba including covering it up for sometime. While he did face serious repercussion no where do we see he was DF’d because he was truly repentant and the God could have know that fact. No man anywhere would have draw that conclusion even based on David’s actions.

  8. freeandfresh says:

    My preceding comment is a reply to the comment of anonymous.
    And let me add that I am so much looking forward to the time when God will put a stop to the game of all those crooks.

  9. Excelsior says:

    Mary,

    In what way would you take care of the paedophile who harmed your children?

    I cannot condone any suggestion of taking the law into one’s own hands. The ends never justify the means.

    The only way to counter and stop these sick, evil people is to pursue a case in the courts. Report any abuse immediately to the police and allow the justice system to do its job. It’s hard to channel the fury that any parent would feel at the violation of their child, but it is the right thing to do. I deeply sympathise with your view, I really do. At times I share your opinion, but then I realise that pursuing vengeance makes the victim a potential monster too. The victim should not be forced to suffer anew.

    I am positive that we agree on the urgent necessity of the WTBTS to acknowledge their crimes, call in outside authorities to supervise their reparations, and create and rigorously enforce a fit for purpose child protection policy that protects our children from these monstrous, evil paedophiles that violate all that is decent and good.

    We must never allow our righteous fury to spill over into vengeance. We must report all instances of child abuse to the police immediately.

    I am in no way judging you, Mary. I am with you completely as to where the WTBTS need to go, I am only concerned that the means does not push innocent victims and their families into vengeance and punishments outside of our justice system.

    I respect your deep and sincere concern for all who have suffered this terrible abuse, and I stand with you shoulder to shoulder in condemning these disgusting individuals who cause such harm to innocent children. I also completely agree that calling these brave women to testify in front of their insult of a judicial committee, and allow that repulsive man to cross examine them was further abuse and should never have been allowed. It was completely unnecessary. The body of elders should have disfellowshipped the moment the trial was over.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  10. Tiger123 says:

    @ Mary and excelsior

    I have two children and totally understand your statement Mary. However, I have to agree with excelsior about bringing more suffering in the victim by taking matters in your own hands.

    As to the righteousness of law enforcement and the legal system I will not comment, however it definitely should be your first line of defense, if justice is met or not in the courts, ask yourself the question, would my children benefit more by my being confined or worse yet out of their lives.

    This is no small matter to me. My sister was molested when I was 10 years old. The perp was my dad. My brother in law ended up committing suicide for a couple of reasons but the basic reason he was facing a judicial committee stemmed from my sister being molested and her aversion to sex. His death left a huge hole in my nephews lives they both contend with clinical depression.

    As for me I want to be in my children’s lives, but I find interesting what my friend told a man who molested his son, “if I ever am diagnosed as terminally ill, we both are terminal”. I understand that the actions of one individual and the knowledge we will act when others do nothing may cause the criminals to think twice, as there is a price to be paid. However, hopefully our judicial system will take care of them so we can care for the more important matter of comforting and helping the those hurt by these awful crimes.

  11. Jmon75 says:

    I grew up on the east coast of the U.S., I moved for a time to the far West Coast. I know women on both coasts that will tell you of the absolutely inappropriate questions they were both asked in seperate backroom meetings regarding sexual matters. Both of these women relayed virtually identical stories about how they were asked about climaxing, how many times, which positions, what exact sex acts, etc.

    That cult has an obsession with sex. And the unqualified, untrained, band of morons that runs every one of their congregations I believe do “get off” on the details.

    So back to the point of this piece, it does not shock me that they asked these girls some very inappropriate questions.

    What shocks me is that they get away with it.

    Maybe someone knows something I don’t but I have never heard of 8 elders in a judicial procedure. Does anyone know if this something spelled out in the latest “Shepherding” book?

    Thanks

  12. anonymous says:

    When the Catholic Church was finally being called to account for all it’s child abuse cases, my husband said many times to me “why would anyone stay with the Catholic church when they condone child abuse like that?” In his own words, he was saying that anybody who belonged to a religion that condoned child abuse was stupid but yet when he is confronted with the same evidence in the Watchtower, he ignores his own past words and refuses to admit any of this evidence as facts but says it’s all lies. What needs to happen is that any and all who had been abused, need to bring it out in the open and refuse to be paid off by the Watchtower. When it becomes very public knowledge, maybe then Witnesses will finally see that they too had been lied to. So far, the Watchtower has been able to keep the widespread abuse under wraps from the majority of Witnesses. If Witnesses knew their donations were going to pay off abuse cases, maybe then they’d stop putting money in the contribution boxes. At least I would hope it might wake them up so they’d start at least questioning if the Watchtower might be lying about other stuff.

    • Scrubmaster says:

      Anonymous – what you said is so true. When I mention it to my Mom, she said she does not want to talk about the child abuse or it or mention to other people. I said Mom that is wrong, there is no problem mentioning the wrongs of other religions. It is a double standard. All of God’s peoples faults are on display in the Bible. It was only the religions leaders who Jesus condemn because they were holier than thou. Not able to admit their own sins, but could see the sins of other people. Jesus called them white was graves outside looked good inside full of bones.

  13. GEM says:

    Excelsior:

    I find it difficult visiting Dad (I have just returned home) 130 miles away… he is suffering from Memory Loss and confusion.

    He was deleted as an Elder over an incident which was nothing short of Unkind. It took all my strength to convince him this morning that there was no excuse for this bad treatment. Agree or Not Excelsior… the only thing helping him drown his sorrow after Mum died (she of the smoking variety I mentioned earlier, never was a JW and was violently and bitterly opposed for over 40 years)…..was my Dad’s lead as an Elder. He is a zealot, loved by all the kids in the congregation, and the grand kids. Deluded or not… it was his anchor.. and, I saw him decline as the ‘phone stopped ringing and invitations and visits dropped off.

    He abhors the very thought of Paedophilia in the congregation. It is the chancre of every religious group. I am proud of him, Excelsior, because he helped rescue a young girl who was being raped by the Uncle she was living with. He went straight to the Authorities from Field Service.

    He is a member of “the old school”, and is concerned that much is infiltrating the congregations that is not right… to the extent that he accepts that some may have infiltrated those congregations, with the express purpose of “divide and rule”… I don’t think he is wrong. But, he has been silenced… and he is sad.

    The subject matter here is a valid concern, and the Shout has to be loud and Unified so that Reform takes place in this and other matters.

    I don’t feel I could ever go back now…. which, makes my Dad feel even sadder.

    We embraced each other and cuddled this morning.. and, we whispered “I love You”, each in the ear of the other.

    Peace be with You, Excelsior

  14. GEM says:

    Hadn’t looked at it like that before Micha-el!

    Do I take it you are from the Emerald Isle?

    Tell you what, if they ever introduced Gluttony as a disfellowshipping offence 80% of the congregation would disappear in Industrial Countries… come to think of it…. why do they skip over that one??

  15. Patrice says:

    John I have a question that an elder friend of mine has raised. After reading the Daily Mail he said that he did not believe eight elders would be present. He has never heard of this. Is there any way that this can be double checked. I feel it is kind of ever the top too. Thanks.
    P.S. Had any smiles off
    ‘lil Jessica yet???????

  16. Bad Penny says:

    To anonymous,
    Yes, I agree with your comment. When the abuse of children by the Catholic church was discovered some years ago, I remember calling (on field service) on a Catholic man who refused to believe these things were going on in his church, and he was proud to be a Catholic. I said at the time that there was no way I would remain in a religion that condoned such wickedness. Yet, of course, when the BBC Panorama programme covered the abuse within JW’s a few years later, I also refused to believe it. It has taken me this long, till May last year, to finally wake up to the fact that the Watchtower Society is not God’s organisation on earth. And yes, I have discovered the lies and deceit that are hidden behind those winsome words of the GB.
    With the help of Cedars, we know that there are so many others out there waking up and finally having the courage to leave. May the work continue.

  17. Patrice says:

    Hi John. I posted this once but it went missing. Could you just clear up a question an elder friend has asked. Was there definatly eight elders in the room. He says he has never heard such a thing. Why on earth eight, unless it was old and new judicial commitees. Not doubting you, but the Daily Mail can get things wrong. See you got a mention at the end. I hope it make some curious and thay look you up.

    • Cedars says:

      Hi Patrice, apparently these were not your normal run-of-the-mill judicial meetings. Elders from other congregations were brought in to try to mitigate any perceived bias from local elders. I trust the newspapers have their facts straight on this. If there are any discrepancies I am sure members of the local congregation will get in touch with me with extra info via our email address, because I am told many from New Moston are reading our coverage.

  18. Patrice says:

    HI John.
    Yes that makes sense to me, and of course someone would soom put it right. I hope you dont think I was questioning you, I trust you completly.
    Lil Jessica given you smiles yet. We do newborn photography ( not hinting for work ) and one question I always ask the dad’s is ” I bet you never knew you had so much love inside you” I get such wonderful responses.
    Love to you all. X

  19. Jannai says:

    Brothers and sisters at the Kingdom Hall are not aware of the society’s two-witness policy – it has been kept secret from them.

  20. Jannai says:

    The brothers and sisters at the Kingdom Hall are unaware of the society’s two-witness policy – it is kept secret from them.

  21. Excelsior says:

    Folks,

    I just had one of my dear old Mum’s Witness friends come round to see her. She asked me if I would ever go back to being a JW. I told her about this case, and explained that the child protection policy is wrong.

    I am hoping that the Charity Commision will actually do something about this. They have concerns about the New Moston Congregation, but do they realise that this policy is for ALL congregations?

    My heart aches for those 3 brave young women. They are so brave to go through this disgraceful ordeal. I hope that they find peace.

    I hope that the international coverage that this tragic case has garnered will be the impetus for some change.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  22. The WTBTS, like most fundamentalist groups, have zero understanding of mental heath and emotional well-being. This is because the bible itself provides no instruction toward the mental well being of its readers.

    So it’s it’s not shocking that they would be completely inept as to the destruction that child abuse brings onto a life of another human being. But even a disconnected worldly person off the street with no biblical knowledge would say that these meetings (especially the last one) would be cruel and inhumane punishment to inflict on someone. And for what reason?

    Our innermost natural being says how damaging this is… and yet the elders supersede that with procedural requirements and “biblical” obligation. That’s sad that even the simplest natural levels of compassion and understanding have no place in the well being of their faithful followers.

  23. kat says:

    the WT has published quite a few articles in their magazines, mainly the Awake on the life long legacy of victims of child sexual abuse, they quote many experts, you can go to the WT CD rom and see for yourself.

    So they know, the thing is its all about the organization not people, not even children, idolatry is blinding and one only has to look at what the Israelite nation did when they succumbed to idolatry, they even sacrificed their children to Baal!

    this is not excuse and they show they neither know Christ and worse disown him. The GB of JW should be held accountable along with any elder that chosen to follow the orders of men over the principles and love of Christ’s teachings, their consciences are seared, once one goes against their conscience long enough they become corrupt, this is what we see in the corporate org of JW run by lawyers and Pharisees, from the top down.

  24. David says:

    the independent statement “They had to go through the abuse in detail and were asked if they encouraged it. One of the victims was asked if she had enjoyed it” is totally disgusting.

    I think these people are a bit crazy and enjoy asking this kind of stupid questions.

    Elders in juridical committees asks all sorts of unnecessary details that destroy the dignity of the person.

    But the problem is that they act like any strict cult, they follow the blindly the procedures doesn’t it matter how crazy and perverse they are.

  25. Jannai says:

    Some months ago I had a conversation with a child protection elder – I was horrified by what he said to me. I reported him to the appropriate children authorities and they told me there was nothing they could do. Had he been a social work I am sure it would have been a different story.

  26. janny says:

    Lol wow no one can say these people are with God if they do then they’re saying God is Satan … ( because thats who they imitate; Satan ..not God Almighty)

  27. Daniela says:

    I was made to tell every little detail of my abuse to the elders too. It was the worst experience of my life. Worse than the 4 years of sexual abuse. After being belittled, called a liar, and being threatened, I was the one that was treated like a criminal. NOTHING happened to the molester, and I was the 3rd of many to come. The elders KNEW about the 2 girls before me. Attempted suicide 7 times in the years after that incident. Nice people.

  28. Excelsior says:

    Daniela,

    I read your post with great sadness and sympathy for you and the many others who have suffered under this cruel religion.

    There are no words that will take away your pain, but know that I and so many others want to help stop others suffering what you did.

    You are a unique event in the Universe and you are a strong and good person.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  29. Excelsior says:

    Normon/What….

    Well, here we are on a page that covers the terrible consequences of the WTBTS’ child protection policy.

    Why don’t you explain to Daniela and all those other victims what you think is best about the WTBTS’s child protection policy?

    What do you think is best about the WTBTS’ child protection measures?

    Do you think that the WTBTS’ two witness rule should apply in child abuse cases?

    Do you think it is right to force victims to suffer anew by relating their abuse to a Judicial Committee?

    Should the Elders and the parents of victims contact the police immediately?

    You have gone to extraordinary lengths to continue to post here by changing your IP address. This is your chance to answer questions about this horrific subject.

    We are waiting.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  30. Excelsior says:

    Norman, or whatever name you hide behind this time.

    You, sir, are a coward and a bully.

    You have failed to answer my questions and you have lost all moral authority.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  31. Gareth says:

    Ehm, am I missing something here? I don’t see any comment/post by someone named Norman?

  32. Excelsior says:

    Gareth,

    We have been plagued by a JW Apologist who has styled himself as Norman Bateman, and What will happen to apostates etc etc. he has found ways to get around his ban by changing his IP address.

    He refused to reply to my questions about child abuse cover ups on a different article as it was not on topic.

    I challenged him to reply on this topic stream, as it is totally on topic. He has chosen not to reply to my detailed questions. He is a coward and a bully and has lost all moral authority.

    I hope that answers your question.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  33. cowboy says:

    All the pedophile and molester’s in WTBTS should be turn in jailed and done a way with forever. and the elder’s and GB leting this go on and covering it up should be to.

  34. Excelsior says:

    cowboy,

    As disgusted as we are at the monstrous activities of sorry excuses for human beings like Jonathan Rose, we must not stoop to their level and indulge in comments speaking about people being “done away with forever”.

    The correct path so the one that was followed in this case – inform the police and allow a criminal trial to establish guilt.

    Mr Rose will now be on the sex offenders’ register for the rest of his life. He will not find it so easy to exploit and abuse children anymore. Of course, this was not helped AT ALL by the supposedly Christian WTBTS, which covered these crimes up.

    The Charity Commission is investigating the New Moston Congregation, and has widened their investigation to encompass the entire British arm of the WTBTS.

    I am hopeful that this case acts as an incentive for the authorities to finally do something about the WTBTS.

    I am also encouraged by your comment in support of the thousands of victims of child abuse, that have their pain and suffering increased by the WTBTS’ child abuse policy.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  35. Questionall451 says:

    Well, I’m sure he was a “spiritual man” because he probably had good numbers. WE ALL KNOW that God likes those big, big numbers. If you just have BIG,
    BIG numbers, I’m sure God forgives the kind of person you are.

  36. SeekingElsewhere says:

    The JW’s tried to indoctrinate me into their religion when I was serving a short prison stint. I left after discovering that over 85% of that 20+ member prison congregation were in there for sex-related crimes (and other heinous stuff “regular” prisoners seperate themselves from), in many cases crimes against children.. molestation, rape, etc. Yes, I ran their names. If this congregation inside is just a sampling of the JW population OUTSIDE prison, I want no part of it. Of course theres myriad other reasons I left but that was THE wake-up call.

  37. Excelsior says:

    SeekingElsewhere,

    Thank you for letting us know about this. My dear old Mum told me about a local Elder visiting our local prison. Allegedly, they are given “special training” in spotting those who are trying to take advantage. If the so called special training is anything like the training they receive in the “Shepherding the Flock of God” book, then I expect that those repulsive men you saw studying will be rubbing their hands with glee at all the young children they can abuse with impunity, now that they’re in “Jehovah’s Organisation”.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

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