Partying in the kingdom hall – why OK for convention delegates, but not newlyweds?
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A kingdom hall in Michigan momentarily resembles a pentecostal church, as convention delegates dance to “Happy” by Pharrell Williams

A YouTube video recently uploaded by a delegate to one of the 2014 international conventions is causing a stir among current and former Witnesses alike.

Now with over 11,000 views the video, shot on June 6th by a delegate to the Detroit international convention, shows an entertainment event being hosted in what appears to be a kingdom hall.

Jehovah’s Witnesses from three different congregations are shown partying with their delegate guests to a series of songs, mostly comprising ‘worldly’ hits from the Sixties.

Classic hits such as “Stand By Me,” “Up On The Roof” and “Stay” are performed by a musical ensemble led by an older brother on the drums, who introduces each song as though it has a ‘theocratic’ angle. Delegates are told that “Stand By Me,” for example, has “lyrics that emphasize the closeness that we have to each other in Jehovah’s organization.”

Once the band has vacated the stage, the kingdom hall later erupts into dancing to the song “Happy” by rapper Pharrell Williams (see time marker 29:55). This is the same song that was recently danced to by a number of former Witnesses, including yours truly, in a special video.

Interestingly, as any relatively well-informed Witness will tell you, kingdom halls (as buildings dedicated to worship) are usually deemed as fitting venues ONLY for regular meetings, ‘theocratic’ arrangements, weddings or funerals.

And as the following excerpt from page 127 of the Shepherd the Flock of God elder’s manual shows, even couples getting married should not expect the playing of so-called ‘worldly’ songs at their ceremony.

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After reading the above, you might be tempted to see the YouTube video as evidence that Watchtower is becoming more relaxed and mainstream. But if this is the case, please don’t get your hopes up!

As already explained in a recent article, international conventions are a huge money-spinner for Watchtower. Those wealthy enough to be “delegates” (and who meet the physical and ‘spiritual’ criteria) must fork out eye-watering sums of money to stay at Watchtower-approved hotels, and in some cases will pay a premium on their flights if they book through one of the organization’s prearranged travel agencies.

I write with some personal experience on the matter after being told how much a close relative from the UK once paid to attend an international convention as a delegate in mainland Europe. The amount he paid Watchtower for an event only two hour’s flying time away was closer to what I would have expected him to pay to jet off to Australia.

Unsurprisingly, those who are willing to pay handsomely for the privilege of attending an event where they have an opportunity of rubbing shoulders with a Governing Body member (which is the only significant difference between an international and a regional convention), are treated like royalty.

After all, Watchtower wants these elite individuals to also consider being delegates for future events, and not become disillusioned.

And so it is that the rulebook can so easily be thrown out of the window where international convention delegates are concerned.

A couple getting married are not giving hundreds or even thousands of dollars to Watchtower, so they don’t get to walk down the aisle to Celine Dion. An international delegate, on the other hand, is lining Watchtower’s pockets quite nicely, and so can expect some bang for his buck when it comes to entertainment and ‘hospitality’.

And when it comes to keeping their wealthy backers happy, the Governing Body are only too willing to oblige.

 

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***UPDATE – Since this article was published the following video has been obtained showing line dancing at a kingdom hall in Euless, Texas, to entertain international delegates***

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164 Responses to Partying in the kingdom hall – why OK for convention delegates, but not newlyweds?

  1. They all look happy but being an ex JW know the “real truth” Sorry to say but JW’s brought up in this cult from childhood are not allowed to speak out, ask questions or think for themselves. trying to leave the organization at age 17 found me in a back room with several Elders and I telling my parents I would have to choose my family and stay in their faith or my parents could have no contact with me (this was 30 years ago btw) or any of my siblings. I do know not all congregations are mismanaged as the one I attended but being forced apart from your family is not a loving or Christian action (I only left upon visiting the Watchtower and tract society in NYC and seeing Christian crosses printed at the top of all literature when Russell was president had me asking a lot of questions that could not be answered and the more I asked the more I was told to be quiet and not talk about it) so that was the beginning of my doubt and many more questions. The JW religion was founded(invented)in 1872 by Charles Russell-mankind has been around hundreds of thousands of years and suddenly this Man has the answers? Not likely. The children are brainwashed and most adults entering this cult are looking for something in life and can’t think for themselves. They are followers and want an easy out. Leaving was the absolute best thing I ever did and have never looked back. The first day I was gone felt like the first time I had ever breathed oxygen. I still have no contact with family and I’m fine with that. I wasn’t looking to go out and live a wild lifestyle…I would have chosen death than live another moment as a JW. I know Truth and this is not it!

  2. They all look happy but being an ex JW know the “real truth” Sorry to say but JW’s brought up in this cult from childhood are not allowed to speak out, ask questions or think for themselves. trying to leave the organization at age 17 found me in a back room with several Elders and I telling my parents I would have to choose my family and stay in their faith or my parents could have no contact with me (this was 30 years ago btw) or any of my siblings. I do know not all congregations are mismanaged as the one I attended but being forced apart from your family is not a loving or Christian action (I only left upon visiting the Watchtower and tract society in NYC and seeing Christian crosses printed at the top of all literature when Russell was president had me asking a lot of questions that could not be answered and the more I asked the more I was told to be quiet and not talk about it) so that was the beginning of my doubt and many more questions. The JW religion was founded(invented)in 1872 by Charles Russell-mankind has been around hundreds of thousands of years and suddenly this Man has the answers? Not likely. The children are brainwashed and most adults entering this cult are looking for something in life and can’t think for themselves. They are followers and want an easy out. Leaving was the absolute best thing I ever did and have never looked back. The first day I was gone felt like the first time I had ever breathed oxygen. I still have no contact with family and I’m fine with that. I wasn’t looking to go out and live a wild lifestyle…I would have chosen death than live another moment as a JW. I know Truth and this is not it!

  3. Mara Jacobs-Proctor says:

    Watching the posted video was so unbelievably annoying I couldn’t sit through the whole thing. The main reason why is that it was obvious the ‘delegates’, were being treated like rock stars. If these same Witnesses moved into the area where this took place, I guarantee you that within a couple of months they would be treated like day old meatloaf by the majority. But because they are labeled ‘delegates’, suddenly everyone fawns over them. I have observed this behavior in my area and I attribute it to the fact that most Witnesses don’t use their own thinking ability. If the WT acts like something or someone is special, which in this case is in the interest of financial gain, the friends follow suit. Monkey see, monkey do mentality. If you asked them why these people deserve what seems to approach adoration, they probably couldn’t answer you! (Reminds me of the mindless clapping on command at conventions.) It’s nice to be hospitable, but this goes way beyond common courtesy! Scary! Then add to this the fact that these are financially well off Witnesses…guess you don’t deserve to be adored if you’re low on cash. ‘The poor man is hated even by his neighbors, But many are the friends of the rich person.’ – Proverbs 14:20. Sad!

  4. Billy says:

    What is the big deal… Get over it. How many churches have rock bands on Sunday morning? Bingo, basketball courts for members?
    What is the big deal?
    So they allowed this… Their religion… Why not. Maybe it was in print but for a special occasion maybe they relaxed it… It wasn’t written on stone tablets
    Why not leave these people alone to worship as hey wish

  5. My Plastic Mic says:

    Billy, I personally vow to let them worship as they wish when they apologize for not allowing every other church on earth to worship as they wish. Jehovah’s Witnesses condemn the very churches you refer to(rock bands, basketball courts, etc) yet they now act just like those churches. Just as you ask to let them worship as they want to, then let this site and it’s guests blog, comment and run it how they want.

    P.S. Jehovah’s Witnesses would also condemn you for visiting this website.

  6. anonymous says:

    Billy, it wasn’t that it was “allowed”, they were told to do it. There is a big difference. All of these witnesses should have realized that this would be going against their consciences from what they have been taught all their lives in the Society. They were TOLD to do it and since the Society told them to do it, they did it against something they knew was wrong to do. It’s no different then a church telling it’s parishioners to fight in a war that their consciences tells them is wrong to do but since they equate their minister as being told to do it by God, then they can go and kill with a clean conscience. That is how wars are fought. The churches, under the guise of “speaking for God” dull people’s consciences to the point that these people think it’s God who is telling them to do something they should know is wrong so they can kill with a “clean” conscience and not feel guilty about it. The Society had to know it was evil to ask these people to entertain these delegates with worldly songs in their Kingdom Halls but they did it anyway, showing they have no respect for their own directives and thus not a theocratically run organization, but a man-made organization.

  7. Art Fern says:

    Hold onto that thought, I agree 100% Mr Blow. A sackful of junk given with lots of smiles takes those lingering doubts down a few notches while bathing your frontal lobe in that sweet, sweet, anesthesia, group love.

  8. Art Fern says:

    I am very grateful for the Jewish Community Center of Tucson or one near Denver for providing the space for teaching first aid and CPR and offering swimming lessons to me and my family. For those Mormons and Catholics who built outdoor playgrounds I played baseball on, in many different areas of the country. The parks were open to anyone believers or not. I learned how to use my athletic talents and to keep my body strong as well as sportsmanship, functioning as part of a group, and many behaviors that served me well in my career. I used to look for a Mormon Church when I moved into a new town and I’d stop by Tues-Thurs evenings after 9pm to play pick-up basketball with members and their non-member friends or people who, like me, knew that there would be games going on those nights. The court was sectioned off from the chapel, so I didn’t see any desecration going on. I have been to Baptist, Pentecostal services where they had c&w music going on during the service and they were all darn good performers, but never rock. I really don’t get the difference but that’s just me. Part of my family is Catholic so I have been to dozens of funeral masses, weddings, ordination of my cousin Danny a priest, etc. What seems to trouble most of you is the double standard, if I were a true believer I might feel the same way. I had never seen anything quite like this in a sanctuary, chapel, or sacred place of a church building. I did like the joy I saw and spontaneous dancing, moving to the music. I think music touches something naturally present in each of us, I don’t see the Tower as having a friendly attitude towards spontaneity, so this was refreshing and freeing. I condemn teaching what is clearly false in any church along with forced obedience to irrational rules, but I can’t trash the simple worship service that fills some need to help the folks get through their week, no matter where its held or by who.

  9. Dean says:

    kind of upsets me as at the time i was told i could not get married in the KH..as being told i was not up to standards..and i see this,yes music is good i do agree but how can all this be,i,am glad to say i,am no longer a part of all this cult

  10. CT says:

    The truth is JWs are bored. Their God is the watchtower organization . They are such a depressed group of people that many. eventually end up leaving.the kingdom hall altogether. They. Can’t enjoy anything in life because. their leaders condemn everything that’s on. God’s earth?, i.e, (can’t dance, can’t celebrate , can’t work. for. the. government , can’t prosper ). I pray they will wake up and leave. their. cult .

  11. Warren says:

    did they play hotel california?, by the eagles?

  12. PureStrongheart says:

    @ Warren: Yes, Hotel California always does remind me of “The Truth,” as, sure enough, ‘you can check out, but you can never leave’ (without lasting repercussions)

  13. Searcher says:

    I said this on another thread: A wise man once told me started working a company, “Around here, the rules only apply to you and only when convenient.” I think that also applies to the attitude of the GB when they say you can’t do this or that in a kingdom hall. Doesn’t surprise me at all. This is the typical way that hierarchical organizations work. JW’s are no exception as they claim to be.

  14. happy ex jw says:

    This is the same organization that once banned Chubby Checker’s The “Twist”

  15. Paul Sampson says:

    I am a Witness and this is shocking . I understand congregations were given the ok to do this . I was raised the Kingdom Hall was dedicated to pure worship. The same Pharell in the song Blurred lines blasting over the speaker system ? Unbelievable.

  16. Just being me says:

    Well said!

  17. Doc Brown says:

    I was raised a Witness but broke away before I was baptized at the of 16. This never would of happened in the 1980’s. I was always told how everything was bad, birthdays, Christmas, Halloween, all Holidays, etc. My sisters KH in MD had a costume party and she posted it on FaceBook but it wasnt Halloween so I guess its ok.

  18. Wychowana w prawdzie says:

    Dla mnie to jest skandal! To jak zabawa Izraelitów przy złotym cielcu. Pewne rzeczy są niezmienne i Sala Królestwa to nie miejsce na takie imprezy. Do czego to doprowadzi? W USA poziom JW jest tak niski – poniżej krytyki, a mamy nie być częścią świata.

  19. Max says:

    Here is evidence normal people lurk underneath the veneer of adherence to a corporate religion.

  20. Excelsior says:

    Max,

    I hope you are right. However, this “partying” is WTBTS sanctioned and is only for the love bomb explosion for the International delegates who have coughed up exhorbitant amounts of money to be there.

    The rules on married couples has not been changed yet.

    I agree that it’s good to see the poor old rank and file Witnesses having some fun for a change, but it is being used for nefarious purposes and I think it will come back and bite the WTBTS.

    Once you give people a taste of this kind of fun, they’ll want some more!

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  21. Jovanna says:

    Ha! Typical. I am so glad that I am no longer a JW. JWs are in fear, brainwashed, and act like puppets on a string. It was the best day in my life when I walked out two years ago next month. I still live in fear from having bad repercussions from the JWs also known as The Box.

  22. hermione1983 says:

    why is it only men up there dancing?? is it alright for women to get up and dance too with men dancing too? or does it have to be a women only dancing together?? sorry but i am a dancer!!! so if i was at the convention i wouldnt be able to stop myself from going up there too even if it were men or woman up there!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  23. hermione1983 says:

    oh women are allowed to go up and dance with men!! i thought they were not!! what if the person is not baptised JW are they still allowed to go up and dance with men dancing too??

  24. hermione1983 says:

    are they allowed on the stage??? or do they have to be off it like those two women were???

  25. dubonnet says:

    ***UPDATE – Since this article was published the following video has been obtained showing line dancing at a kingdom hall in Euless, Texas, to entertain international delegates***

    Hello, give me the title of the song , please. Thank you.

  26. dubonnet says:

    Well, my memories came back. Kenny Loggins with footloose.
    It is indeed very theocratic as music lyrics, the speakers of the Kingdom Hall should it not be like this passage from Jacques book that says ” A fountain does not cause the sweet and the bitter to bubble out of the same opening, does it? ” ( Jacques 3:11 )
    Oh Cedar , video “Happy a Bethel” is available on many YouTube channel with Psalm 144: 15 as dedication. ahahahah

  27. Kat says:

    MY jaw has JUST DROPPED! What on Earth is this? I have never seen or even believed this stuff was possible, at a KH even? I learn something jaw dropping every day for the last 3 weeks since I came to be acquainted with the EXJW group and John Cedars pages.

  28. Excelsior! says:

    Kat,

    As an ex JW, who was DFd in the mid nineties, I was shocked too!

    This is the WTBTS moving from a Millenniumist religion to a more mainstream religion.

    It’s blindingly obvious that the 1914/this generation motif is completely dead. The WTBTS are moving to having no end time at all, very very sneakily. (Overlapping generations)

    The WTBTS wanted to love Bomb the international delegates, who had paid above the odds for their trip.

    Whether this parlays into the ability for newly weds to party in the same way remains to be seen!

    Peace be with you, Excelsior!

  29. Marcie says:

    The above videos are an example of those who fail to apply the directions given by the WBTS and have given the unfaithful reasons for further spiritual stumbling.

    Yes, these types of functions are inappropriate to be held at kingdom halls based on the directions given as noted on this blog quoted from the manual given to the elders. This failure to follow directions falls on those taking the lead (the elders) at that particular congregation or Kingdom Hall. The WBTS’ values and directions are steadfast, they HAVE NOT CHANGED. The above is a good example of disobedience to directions which has only provided reproach on JEHOVAH’s name and HIS ORGANIZATION.

    In response to Bro. Charles Taze Russell’s use of the cross, it was not until after his death that the organization through scriptural and historical examination learned that the use of the cross was wrong and therefore refrained from using it thereafter. The same with the holidays and birthdays. FOOD FOR THOUGHT – the holidays are originally WICCAN / Norse / Celt (Babylonian) celebrations connected to Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz.

    Agape, Marcie – Faithful, Well-Informed JW

    • Grace says:

      Marcie,

      I hope that you keep researching & educating yourself on the “paganism of holidays”. You will find that most of what you do as a Witness has roots of paganism. So you might have to decide what else you may need to eliminate from your JW life.

      FOOD FOR THOUGHT, if you do more research into the “steadfast direction & policies of the WTBS”, you will find that they are not consistent around the world & that it has taken Government or Legal interaction for the WTBS to make changes. Look closely at the sneaky changes that have been made to cover themselves from litigation & connect the dots. These changes have come after huge secret out of court settlements that you may not know about.

      Even Geoff Jackson at the Royal Commission in to Child Abuse here in Australia had to admit that he was relieved that the Govt (that’s supposedly run by satan) has had to step in at times to take the plight off those “taking the lead” because of their faithfulness to a 2000 year old book that doesn’t fit with todays more informed, humane society. (Satan’s) Govt is asking the WTBS to make changes to their “steadfast directions (policies)” to protect the thousands of children that have been harmed by them.

      Agape to you too.

      • Marcie says:

        Grace,

        Actually, I do a lot of personal research using the secular cited publications the WBTS use for the articles in the WT and AW, plus I also study the Scriptures in the same way the Beroeans did. Apart from collecting those secular publications for my personal library, I also collect newspaper articles that mention anything related to what is in the Scriptures, encyclopedias, old Bibles that have Jehovah’s name in them to compare them with the New World Translation, and anything that has a connection to the history of the Hebrew nation and the Jews during Bible times, as well as anything connected to the fulfillment of Jesus’ prophecy of the wheat and weeds in connection with Genesis 3:15. This I do for myself and to share with others in my ministry.

        As for the activities that the WBTS has which are the weekly meetings, the conventions, and the Memorial of Christ’s death; there is nothing paganistic about these activities. All instruction is Scripturally based. Actually, it was my Catholic upbringing and practices that I had to eliminate since these are all connected to paganism (Ashtoreth, Tammuz, and Dagon which are mentioned in the Scriptures). As well as obserance of such activities as Christmas, Easter, Lent, Halloween, Valentines Day, St. Patrick’s Day, April Fool’s Day, etc. are actually of Pagan (Wiccan) origin.

        Now as for the situation regarding Child Abuse which is a broad topic since it involves physical, mental, emotional, and sexual abuse. These are all topics that the WBTS has provided instructional information in the WT’s and AW journals, as well as other publications, for families and individuals to apply personally to protect and benefit themselves and their families. These journals are offered also to others outside the organization. So the WBTS has always dealt with this topic.

        Unfortunately, the inconsistencies that you mentioned have to do with the elders within each congregation that fail to carryout the directions provided to them. For example I just received notice of the survey done by this site regarding the responses some JW elders on them being aware of pedophiles within the organization. Now was their response based on actually knowing someone within the organization who has been charged and convicted as a pedophile or just here-say. These elders have an obligation to the members of their congregation to get the facts and then to report the situation to the “superior authorities” as required by Jehovah. (Romans 13:1-7). Again the failure of the elders from carrying out Jehovah’s directions have only brought criticism and dishonor to Jehovah and his organization.

        While the governments may be under Satan’s control (Luke 4:4, 6; John 12:31; 14:30) the “superior authorities” serve as “ministers” to Jehovah as mentioned in Romans 13:1-7. So, while the Bible may be old it is still applicable in our day. In fact, the founders of the United States of America established this government on the guidelines in this faithful book as President Andrew Jackson pointed out “upon hearing a man defaming God’s Word he rebuked him with the following well-chosen words: “Sir, that Book is the Rock on which our Republic rests!”

      • Marcie says:

        Grace,

        Actually, I do a lot of personal research using the secular cited publications the WBTS use for the articles in the WT and AW, plus I also study the Scriptures in the same way the Beroeans did. Apart from collecting those secular publications for my personal library, I also collect newspaper articles that mention anything related to what is in the Scriptures, encyclopedias, old Bibles that have Jehovah’s name in them to compare them with the New World Translation, and anything that has a connection to the history of the Hebrew nation and the Jews during Bible times, as well as anything connected to the fulfillment of Jesus’ prophecy of the wheat and weeds in connection with Genesis 3:15. This I do for myself and to share with others in my ministry.

        As for the activities that the WBTS has which are the weekly meetings, the conventions, and the Memorial of Christ’s death; there is nothing paganistic about these activities. All instruction is Scripturally based. Actually, it was my Catholic upbringing and practices that I had to eliminate since these are all connected to paganism (Ashtoreth, Tammuz, and Dagon which are mentioned in the Scriptures). As well as obserance of such activities as Christmas, Easter, Lent, Halloween, Valentines Day, St. Patrick’s Day, April Fool’s Day, etc. are actually of Pagan (Wiccan) origin.

        Now as for the situation regarding Child Abuse which is a broad topic since it involves physical, mental, emotional, and sexual abuse. These are all topics that the WBTS has provided instructional information in the WT’s and AW journals, as well as other publications, for families and individuals to apply personally to protect and benefit themselves and their families. These journals are offered also to others outside the organization. So the WBTS has always dealt with this topic.

        Agape

        • Marcie says:

          Grace,

          Unfortunately, the inconsistencies that you mentioned have to do with the elders within each congregation that fail to carryout the directions provided to them. For example I just received notice of the survey done by this site regarding the responses some JW elders on them being aware of pedophiles within the organization. Now was their response based on actually knowing someone within the organization who has been charged and convicted as a pedophile or just here-say. These elders have an obligation to the members of their congregation to get the facts and then to report the situation to the “superior authorities” as required by Jehovah. (Romans 13:1-7). Again the failure of the elders from carrying out Jehovah’s directions have only brought criticism and dishonor to Jehovah and his organization.

          While the governments may be under Satan’s control (Luke 4:4, 6; John 12:31; 14:30) the “superior authorities” serve as “ministers” to Jehovah as mentioned in Romans 13:1-7. So, while the Bible may be old it is still applicable in our day. In fact, the founders of the United States of America established this government on the guidelines in this faithful book as President Andrew Jackson pointed out “upon hearing a man defaming God’s Word he rebuked him with the following well-chosen words: “Sir, that Book is the Rock on which our Republic rests!”

          Agape

      • Marcie says:

        Grace,

        Grace,

        Actually, I do a lot of personal research using the secular cited publications the WBTS use for the articles in the WT and AW, plus I also study the Scriptures in the same way the Beroeans did. Apart from collecting those secular publications for my personal library, I also collect newspaper articles that mention anything related to what is in the Scriptures, encyclopedias, old Bibles that have Jehovah’s name in them to compare them with the New World Translation, and anything that has a connection to the history of the Hebrew nation and the Jews during Bible times, as well as anything connected to the fulfillment of Jesus’ prophecy of the wheat and weeds in connection with Genesis 3:15. This I do for myself and to share with others in my ministry.

        Agape

    • Caroline says:

      Marcie, if you look at the old literature from the 20’s you will see that the cross was put on the front of the Watchtower up until at least 1930 and they were celebrating Christmas and birthdays in the 1925 era. There’s pictures of them celebrating Christmas in the Proclaimers book in 1926.

      Supposedly Jesus came to the earth and looked at all the religions of the world between 1914-1918 and picked out the Bible Students as his only channel of communication to mankind to warn of the “end”.

      Think about it. They were celebrating the cross, birthdays and Christmas when Jesus supposedly chose them as his spokesman so when the Society stopped doing those things, they were going against the religion that Jesus approved of so that was apostasy and not a good thing and the religions that use the cross and celebrate Christmas today would be the religions who Jesus would approve of, if He was going by his standards in the years 1914-1918.

      • Marcie says:

        Caroline,

        By your comment I can see that you don’t really study the Bible and it’s teachings. If you did you would see that your interpretation of what apostasy means is warped and incorrect.

        First, the apostasy or apostate teachings began to occur already after Jesus was killed and during the time the apostle Paul and the other Bible writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures were writing their letters to the then established Christian congregations, just as Jesus had foretold in his parable of the wheat and the weeds (Matthew 13:24-30, 36-42; John 8:44; Matthew 7:13-27; 24:11).

        Example: The apostle Peter mentioned this in 2nd Peter in the entire chapters of 2 & 3. The apostle John mentioned it in 1st John 2:18-26; 4:1-3. The apostle Paul mentioned it in the entire chapter of 1st Timothy 4 and 2nd Timothy 4.

        So, when Charles Taze Russell and those that associated themselves with him began to examine and study the Scriptures in the Bible they began adjusting what they had been taught to believe and practice, then eventually ceased from practicing what they learned was not acceptable. As you mentioned, as the Proclaimed book noted, at the BEGINNING the WBTS used the cross, celebrated birthdays and Christmas (Saturnalia) but with research learned it was wrong to practice such things and STOPPED practicing them. Also, although you did not mention this, while at first the inside page of the WT journal focused on Christ Jesus, now it focuses on Jehovah. This is also mentioned in the Proclaimed book. These adjustments are in line with what Jesus told the Samaritan woman as noted in John 4:23, “the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him.” That is why in 1931, the name Jehovah’s Witnesses was adopted by the WBTS. This is in fulfillment with Acts 15:14; Isaiah 43:10; Jeremiah 3:22; 24:7; 30:33: 31:33; Ezekiel 11:17-20; 36:22-28; 39:7; Hosea 3:5; Malachi 3:12-18; Romans 14:8; Revelation 7:10. That is why it can be said they have been appointed as the faithful and discreet slave by Jehovah since they are the ones carrying out Isaiah 2:2-4 and Micah 4:1-3, 5.

        • Caroline says:

          Marcie, the point of my comment was that it wasn’t at the “beginning” but it was up until at least 1930 that the Watchtower was still doing the cross and Christmas and birthdays, well past the time when Jesus supposedly chose the Organization as his one and only true religion on earth. According to the the Proclaimer’s book on page 133, the Watchtower organization taught that Jesus’ invisible presence began in 1874 and they taught that up until 1943 in the book “The Truth Shall Make You free” and was refined the following year in the book “The Kingdom Is at Hand” as well as in later publications.

          So, I don’t believe that Jesus even appointed the Watchtower as his spokesman in 1919 because even in the Proclaimer’s book, Jesus was supposedly present for 29 years (1914-1943)and the Society didn’t even know it so I don’t think they “apostated” either from any “real” truth and were flying by the seat of their pants the whole time.

          If God had actually appointed them in 1919 as the faithful and discreet slave class in 1919, they didn’t even know it until 1943 and like I said before, if Jesus actually picked them out as his true followers on earth, why were they getting bad information from God as to when Jesus actually came into his invisible presence? Is it because they are just men and when they as men realize they made mistakes, they fix them? They always say they aren’t inspired but spirit directed? Would God feed them wrong information?

          When I say the Society apostated from what Jesus would have picked out as the one and only true religion, I am referring to the religion that Jesus supposedly chose in 1919, not the religion it has grown in to today. If it was the true religion in 1919 and it’s not the same religion today as in 1919, then it was either false in 1919 or it’s false today? It can’t be both.

          • Marcie says:

            Caroline,

            Prior to Charles Taze Russell there had been individuals who tried to stand up for truth, such as Martin Luther. Unfortunately, because of fear of man and the desires of the flesh reverted back “to the vomit” and did not pursue further in search of Bible truth.

            Yet, Charles Taze Russell, together with his Bible Study group, searched for Bible truths and continued, even through persecution. Then following Jesus’ words in Matthew 13:46, “upon finding one pearl of high value, he went away and promptly sold all the things he had.” This Charles Taze Russell did as is brought out in the Proclaimers book. He sold his business and established the corporation now known as Watchtower, Bible, and Tract Society. Continuing to search for Bible Truth following Jesus’ words in John 18:37, “Everyone who is on the side of the truth listens to my voice” the organization has received what Jesus requested from Jehovah for his disciples in John 17:14-23, “Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth.”

            To search for Bible truths is a rigorous effort that takes years to uncover similar to searching for “hidden treasures” and yet when it is achieved as Proverbs 2:1-5 states, “you will find the knowledge of God” and the WBTS has been blessed with it. Since the 1870’s to 1919 Jehovah and Jesus both were observing this effort. It was NOT perfect but as Proverbs 4:18 states, “the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light that grows brighter and brighter until full daylight.” So just as Jesus did to the blind man in Mark 8:22-26 by healing the blind man gradually so Jehovah and Jesus have granted the WBTS the same as Matthew 24:45 states, “the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the PROPER TIME.” As Jesus stated in John 16:12, 13: “I still have many things to say to you, but you are not able to bear them now. However, when that one comes, the spirit of the truth, he will GUIDE you into all the truth.” This is exactly what has been granted to the WBTS as a whole, yet it has been done GRADUALLY.

            Agape, Marcie – a Faithful, Well-Informed JW

            I was once told by a dear friend, “if you search for stains or imperfections in the brotherhood within Jehovah’s organization you will find them but you will cheat yourself in truly getting to enjoy the fine qualities that Jehovah sees in them.”

      • Marcie says:

        Caroline,

        As history bears witness full blown apostasy and fulfillment of Jesus Christ’s prophecy of the Wheat and Weeds” took place during the council of Nicene in Bithynia under the direction of the Roman Emperor Constantine I in AD 325.

        References:
        * Library of Early Christianity—Gods and the One God
        * Encyclopædia Britannica
        * The New Westminster Dictionary of Church History

        Agape, Marcie – Faithful, Well-Informed JW

      • Marcie says:

        Caroline,

        Around 180 C.E. in the early Christian congregations, Christians confess that “Jesus is Lord” but did not always understand the biblical context of lordship. The Christian congregations’ understanding of Jesus as Lord was further threatened by Marcion, a “Christian” living in Rome during that time. Marcion did not regard Jesus as the Messiah proclaimed by the prophets of the Old Testament nor did he regard the Old Testament as Scripture. Marcion proposed limiting Christian “Scripture” to Luke’s gospel (less the birth narrative and other parts that he felt expressed Jewish thinking) and to those letters of Paul that Marcion regarded as anti-Jewish. Because of such thinking, Roman Christians developed an early form of the Apostles’ Creed to refute such apostate teachings and to help new Christians know what to believe, especially since none the Christian congregations had ALL the New Testament. This served as a standard to judge whether a “Christian” teaching or belief was true.

        The Apostles’ Creed is a summary of what the Apostles taught and it served as:

        1) a public statement of faith, the standardized way in which new Christians could confess their faith in Jesus Christ

        2) an anchor of Christian faith to a tradition, to make it difficult for people or churches to be led astray by strange doctrines

        3) a preaching and teaching tool, providing an outline for Christians to carry out their Christian commission to “Go therefore and make disciples . . . , teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.”—MATTHEW 28:19, 20.

        History shows that Christian congregations in different regions were involved in the development of the Apostles’ Creed. As congregations in one part of the Roman empire communicated with others, this short list of doctrines became standardized.

        Examples :

        Around 200 C.E., Irenaeus in his writings in Greek described a similar creed to the Apostles Creed which may have been a precursor. He presented his Creed, a statement of faith, not as something new but as something the Christian congregations had been using for a long time. He lived in what is now France, but had grown up in Asia Minor, where he had been taught by Polycarp, a student of the Apostle John.

        About 220 C.E., Tertullian, from North Africa, in his writings mentioned the early Latin version of the creed. About a century later Marcellus, from Asia Minor, shared a similar Creed.

        In 393 C.E., Rufinus of Aquileia, “the learned Translator of Origen” had a similar Creed in northern Italy.

        Around 400 C.E., Augustine, bishop from North Africa, used a similar creed.

        In 650 C.E., before Charlemagne, it apparently was a standard in Gaul.

        In 750 C.E., Pirminius, who lived in what is now Switzerland, covered in his writings the standardized version of the Apostles’ Creed.

        Today, this same model is used and explained by the WBTS through the book “What Does The Bible Really Teach.”

        Agape Marcie – a Faithful, Well-Informed JW

  30. Marcie says:

    In response to the WBTS’ arrangements for delegates for International Conventions. This is open to all JW’s who have been baptized for 20 years or more, as well as to those serving as full-time evangelizers who have less than 20 years baptized. It is NOT a privelege for the elite or wealthy, but for those in good standing, who demonstrate obedience to directions.

    As for the pre-arranged travel arrangements for these events, these are done with the airlines, hotels, and travel agencies as a loving provision for those who have appreciation. NO ONE is forced to use these provisions or to participate in these events.

    Agape, Marcie – Faithful, Well-Informed JW

    • Evelyn says:

      Marcie I am very glad you have clarified this. My family and I were delegates in Germany. It was the best experience my family and myself have ever had. I am not an elite. We travel using airline points. We choose the hotel. The friends gave us tours that we did not pay for. They shared what they had with us. We made many new friends from all parts of the world. We all got along. We all hugged and kissed each other. We cried when we had to go our separate ways. We even stood in different homes of JW we met for the first time. We all had in common the love we have for Jehovah, Jesus and our spiritual brothers and sisters. Other people wish they can have this. My fleshly brothers and sisters cannot go to a different country and ask someone of there same faith which they have never met before to let them stay in there homes. That would be unthinkable. We have had JW families that we had never met before, from other countries stay at my home and they are not of the elite class as other say. We are equals. What we do is for the love we have in Jehovah and our neighbors.

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