My response to the haters (and why I can’t always shake it off)

Abuse from fanatical Cedars-bashers like Tony Balchen (pictured) is beginning to take its toll
Abuse from fanatical Cedars-bashers like Tony Balchen (pictured) is beginning to take its toll

I suffer from depression, but even at my darkest moments, when my mind has briefly flirted with notions of suicide, I’ve always thought what a bad choice that would be.

There are just so many different ways a person’s life could be configured. So whenever it feels like there is no way out, I’ve always found myself able to reason that surely there MUST be another way of living that is less soul-destroying – even if the journey to that change of circumstances might be difficult.

Many of you will remember I was attacked towards the end of last year for voicing an opinion on “aggressive activism,” which is my definition for the goading, taunting and confronting of bewildered cult victims – either at places of worship or during their public preaching work – by indignant, vengeful exJWs.

In response to simply offering my opinion on this issue (doing so without naming any names), I was accused of being a stalker, a wife beater, a cult leader, a cyber-bully, and even a potential pedophile – with my baby daughter seemingly at risk from me.

As hurtful as this torrent of abuse has been, what has been even more alarming is the ease with which the ringleaders behind these accusations have managed to recruit a group of sympathizers, and manipulated these into believing that THEY are the true victims in this whole scenario – not me.

Also troubling is the complete lack of restraint and basic human decency from this mob, many of whom claim to be Christian. For example, two particularly vocal critics of mine called Mike and Kim are so passionate about bringing Jehovah’s Witnesses to Christ that they have apparently set up their own state-registered ministry.

These same people have sat in front of a camera to deliver a 90-minute tirade featuring all of the aforementioned accusations, apparently seeing no conflict with their Holy Book’s calls to “suffer evil” and “be peaceable with all men.”

Though I expect proponents of evangelical activism (“leave Watchtower and embrace our, correct version of Christianity”) to take issue with my openness about my agnosticism/atheism, I find it troubling that the likes of Mike and Kim have been so successful in exploiting the aggressive activism controversy as a smokescreen to pursue their agenda of trying to silence my agnostic views – to the point of hoodwinking even non-religious exJWs into flocking to their anti-Cedars banner.

When the backlash reached its zenith just before Christmas, I seriously considered breaking some of the tension with a light-hearted video in which I would sing a parody song aimed at debunking Mike and Kim’s accusation that I am obsessed with their daughter, who previously helped me with my work. I envisioned a video in which I would be seated at a piano, Gary Barlow-style, singing plaintively to a framed picture of her, delivering a mock confession of my love for her, and mourning that it was unrequited.

But thankfully I snapped out of doing this video when I remembered that the person in question has been known to suffer from depression. However funny the video might have been to some, and however successful it might have been at rubbishing the claims that I was fixated with this girl, how would I have felt if she had committed suicide soon after it was circulated? I would have felt utterly devastated, and responsible for her loss.

All about the money?

Since all of that, there has been a fresh wave of attacks. Apparently my already-long list of fabricated/embellished crimes has been added to, with claims that I am profiteering from my work as an activist (to the tune of over $10,000 per year), that I live in a “hole” of a country, that I make my wife work while I do nothing, that I “disfellowship” people who disagree with me, that I am fat and ugly (well, maybe that’s true), and that I have been too ready to defend myself in conversations with trolls on Facebook and YouTube.

I’ve mostly been able to shrug off all this mud-slinging, knowing full well I have nothing to hide.

As far as my finances are concerned – yes I have Google ads on my website, but so does JWfacts. Yes I have a PayPal button for donations, but so does JWstruggle (and a LOT of other exJW websites, none of which seem to be under siege for the heresy of accepting money). And I also plead guilty to having a Patreon button at the end of my videos for people who want to donate to my work – but nobody is forced to click through and pledge donations.

My articles and videos are available to people entirely free of charge, and will remain so.

Any proceeds from Google Ad impressions* ($125 per month), YouTube ad impressions ($110 per month), or regular donations ($63 per month) get ploughed straight into my business to help pay for new equipment and justify the considerable time spent away from my regular job (translating and proofreading) while doing research and producing content. (For example, my 2-hour rebuttal video to the Gerrit Losch JW broadcasting episode took three days to put together, which would be hard to justify if it wasn’t part of my job.)

There have been occasions where large, one-off donations have been made either to help our family (most notably when we had Jessica’s baby shower) or to assist with my activism (i.e. when two large donations were received to help fund our trip to London for the conference on undue influence) – but this money has never come with strings attached, i.e. that I must endorse Christianity and stay silent about my unbelief. My supporters have simply been willing to help out as the need arises, and they have been placed under no compulsion to do so.

Unlike many of the people who are styling me as a rich cult leader sponging off gormless followers and abuse victims, I don’t yet have a fridge, a TV, a sofa or a kitchen. I REALLY AM doing my activism because I want to free people both now and in the future from cult indoctrination. My work is offered freely, and I don’t see why I should be made to turn down acts of kindness when these are extended simply to appease my critics.

The only work I ever intend to charge for will be my book, which I will aim to price as reasonably as possible once it is finally finished and published. No doubt once it goes on sale I will receive a fresh wave of abuse from people who will quickly forget how much they paid to read the words of Steven Hassan, Jim Penton, Carl Olof Jonsson or Ray Franz and paint me as a greedy profiteer all over again – but it is pointless trying to keep such people happy.

Is blocking someone on Facebook “shunning?”

I have also come under fire for my practice of blocking people on Facebook who are either critical of my activism, or abusive towards me, or supportive/defensive of those who are abusive towards me. I fail to understand why I am obliged to use Facebook, not as a tool for keeping in touch with my friends and readers, but as an implement of ritual self-flagellation that I must use to entertain the scathing rants and banal sniping of my mostly-anonymous, mostly-evangelical critics on a daily basis.

Telling me I’m not allowed to block or unfriend people on Facebook who are nasty is like telling me I MUST stand and listen to random people shout at and berate me if I encounter them while out shopping. I am perfectly within my rights to walk away from any such situation and get on with whatever it was I was doing. I don’t HAVE to punish myself with nonsense just for the sake of it.

It’s worth remembering that nobody is forcing anyone to watch my videos OR read my blog articles. If you hate me and my work so much I have excellent news – you don’t HAVE to follow me or read/watch my work. You can do activism the way YOU want to do it, or find an activist whose videos and blogs are more to your liking. Or you can avoid taking in “apostate” material altogether, if that’s your problem.

And no, I am not in the business of “shunning” people who disagree with me. I am merely choosy about who my friends are. I have plenty of people on my Facebook friends list with whom I don’t see eye to eye on a range of issues, but I find they are able to put their points across without evangelizing or resorting to ad hominem insults and accusations, so I am only too happy to keep them in my circle and benefit from their perspective.

And frankly, I find the use of the word “shunning” in describing any situation other than estrangement from family or close friends to be an insult – especially by people who should know the difference between being prevented from commenting on a blog or Facebook page and having all contact with family terminated forever.

Taking its toll

Usually I am able to shrug off all the above silliness, content with the fact that I am doing the best I can for all the right motives, and making some modest headway in waking people up (if my email inbox is to be believed).

But today I was out mingling with some of my friends who live in my village, and something fairly innocuous happened that sent me spiraling into the realization that the level of abuse being directed at me from self-righteous keyboard warriors on the other side of the Atlantic really is starting to take its toll.

I didn’t feel suicidal, but I definitely felt a huge wave of sadness and futility.

I went home and talked to my wife Dijana about what I was feeling, and she told me she was feeling pressured by the situation too. Whenever I am talked about, or our family is talked about, by obsessive lunatics who are more fixated with me than they are with Watchtower, Dijana finds herself worrying and fretting over what effect this will have on me, and whether we are safe from these clearly disturbed individuals (bearing in mind we have already received two menacing cards through the post from an individual in America calling himself/herself “John Smith”).

john-smith-cards

What upsets Dijana most is that, amidst all this hatred and vitriol, she feels forced to put on a brave face for our daughter Jessica, because she is worried that if she lets her sadness show when spending time with our baby this might subconsciously rub off on her, or make her feel that she is somehow not living up to expectations.

Dijana also can’t help but feel enraged when she sees her picture (taken from our translation company website), being shared around on Facebook “hate Cedars” groups, the members of whom then speculate that she is the victim of an oppressive, abusive husband. If she were herself an outspoken activist, or vocal about anything beyond whale conservation, she could perhaps understand all the scrutiny – but she is content to let me get on with my activism and focus on being a mother, and thus finds it all very intrusive.

This conversation with Dijana, and the realization that the fanatical obsessions of a few troubled individuals in America are having a tangible impact on our family has led to my writing this article by way of pleading with any exJWs out there who might have been swayed by my attackers to apply some logic and reason, and show some compassion.

I am not a cult leader. I am not a leader of any sort, and would repudiate any attempts to make me one. I am an ordinary man with a wife and daughter who just happens to be an activist against a cruel cult. And yes, I happen to not be religious.

Of course I have made mistakes, and perhaps gone too far at times when confronting trolls and critics on Facebook and YouTube – but nothing I have said or done has even remotely warranted the tsunami of hatred and vitriol that has been directed against me and my family over the past few months.

A plea for decency

All I ask of my fellow ex cult-members is some basic human decency – the same instincts of solidarity and compassion that made me pull back from making a stupid piano video that I would have almost certainly regretted.

I am not a suicide threat, and my depression is manageable, but I do have a wife and baby daughter – and when you attack me with completely unfounded and specious allegations, you attack them as well. Dijana in particular really does feel the reverberations, to the point of wanting to write to some of the ringleaders herself.

It has long been a notable irony that the majority of opposition to my activism work comes, not from Watchtower or Jehovah’s Witnesses, but from my fellow ex-JWs. I’ve noticed from conversations with activists against other cults that this is not an isolated phenomenon. People who have exited other high-control groups have also been known to turn on each other, and make each other scapegoats for their issues and frustrations.

If it were only me who was taking the heat for having an opinion, and not being afraid to voice it, I think I could handle much of what I’ve been subjected to – content to simply block persistent trolls and fanatics who are hell-bent on character-assassinating me.

But when it starts to affect my family, I do feel a need to draw the line. This abuse has to stop. If you happen to be involved in any way, I implore you to please find something or someone else who is worthy of your frustrations. There are seven men in Brooklyn who export truckloads of pain and misery on a daily basis that I can strongly recommend.

 

***UPDATE October 2015***

Not long after this article was published, JWsurvey received a “cease and desist” letter from lawyers representing Mike and Kim Brooks. The letter, dated April 20th 2015, insisted that this page be removed and that “no further mention of the Brooks family be made by [Lloyd Evans] on his websites, Facebook, Podcast, YouTube, Vimeo, Patreon, or others.”

After discussions between myself and the webmaster, John Hoyle, it was decided that this article would not be taken down, because I had every right to respond to misinformation that was being circulated about me online by this couple in particular.

However, after discussions with someone acting as something of a go-between with Mike and Kim, it was decided as a gesture of goodwill to remove a link showing the registration of their “Mike Kim Ministries Inc” organization, on the understanding that if I would at least refrain from further talking about the couple online they would reciprocate. I readily agreed to this since I have no interest in talking about Mike and Kim Brooks or their exploits on this website or on my YouTube channel. I was also increasingly concerned that posting a link to an internet page where the couple had made their address public might undermine their safety.

A few months passed with very little being said by my community of “haters.” Eventually the hour-long rant by the Brooks family was removed from Mike, Kim and Shyla’s channels – I assume out of embarrassment over the blow-back from their thoroughly-discredited accusations that I am a stalker, wife-beater, and potential sex offender. I allowed myself to think my haters had found more productive uses of their time than to follow my every move, question my motives and fantasize about my private life.

Then, when I announced my plans for a special “JWsurvey Day” video featuring a montage of different exJWs, one of my most fixated online critics Joel Martz, AKA “The UnWitness,” uploaded a video criticizing me for planning a video in which exJWs would be shown as happy, because apparently this lived up to the stereotype of apostates as being selfish.

Around this time, there was an unfortunate incident on Facebook one evening when I was tired and irritated. A post was put up in the mostly-secular JW Podcast group, for which I am an admin, that was nothing more than a scripture with no comment or explanation. Assuming it to be an attempt at trolling by a Watchtower-apologist, I posted a meme with text that read: “Who left the gate open at the cunt farm?” I then checked to find out who the poster was, and discovered it wasn’t a JW but someone on my friends list who happened to be a Christian. I immediately deleted the post, made another post to the effect that it would be appreciated if people could refrain from putting up scripture-only posts, and thought nothing more of it.

A few days passed and I was directed to a video by Alun Williams – an evangelical Christian fanatic who had already made a number of videos ranting against me because I am an unbeliever. Alun had apparently been contacted by a lady, whose name he didn’t immediately divulge, who was upset at how I had treated her on Facebook. Though I was perplexed as to why this person had approached Alun with her grievances and not me, I contacted her on Facebook as soon as I learned of her identity and gave her a personal apology. I also issued the following public apology on the group where Sharon had been aggrieved…

 public-apology

Despite the apology, Alun Williams continued to issue a stream of videos vilifying me for my mistake including such titles as “John Cedars – You don’t feed us,” “John Cedars – Parasites,” and “John Cedars – Narcissist.”

Then today, on October 10 2015, I woke up to discover a fresh YouTube diatribe by Mike Brooks, who (together with his wife) I understood had moved on from his agenda against me. Having learned about the Facebook issue, Mike had taken it upon himself to be the judge and jury for something I had already issued a public apology for. The fact that it took me nine days to apologize to Sharon (simply because I didn’t keep a record of who it was I needed to apologize to, and had to wait for the name to appear in Alun Williams’ video) was shown as further evidence of my depravity. And once again, my wife Dijana was declared to be in an abusive relationship – warned that both her and my baby daughter Jessica are at risk from me.

Even more astonishingly, I was threatened with physical violence if I ever find myself in New Mexico, with Mike saying he would risk going to jail to give me my comeuppance. Apparently threats of physical violence as retribution for something someone has already apologized for can be considered perfectly Christlike behavior.

I am now getting used to the fact that the slightest slip-up, real or imagined, will be gleefully leapt upon by Mike and Kim, Alun Williams and others from the further reaches of the evangelical wing of the exJW community. What I struggle to fathom is how they can justify lambasting someone for a fairly innocuous error of judgment, who has since apologized publicly, while calling themselves Christian. Didn’t Jesus supposedly tell Peter to forgive his brother up to seventy-seven times? Why can I not be forgiven for calling someone a cunt for a few seconds before the post is deleted, and later apologizing publicly?

For the record, Mike and Kim and I were originally on quite friendly terms, but our relationship quickly deteriorated after a series of Facebook exchanges in which it became obvious that any disagreement between us, however friendly, was interpreted by them as an “attack” and “bullying.” They have since pursued activism against me with almost as much energy as they pursue it against Watchtower, seemingly for no other reason than jealousy and the fact that I do not share their religious beliefs.

I understand this update will make for uncomfortable reading, especially for those who like to think of the Ex-JW community as a tranquil haven where former Witnesses unite against a common foe. But the truth is, the “community” is nothing more than a loose-knit group of vastly different people who happen to have shared the same devastating experience.

Some try to use that experience to help others. Some channel the anger and frustration against their fellow cult-survivors. Still others go to the extreme of fixating against those who are perceived to have a bigger audience than they do, and will stop at nothing to drag them down – including inventing accusations. Such behavior highlights just how corrosive Watchtower’s undue influence can be, and makes me more determined than ever to pursue my activism, and answer my critics in the best way possible – by pursuing effective, non-aggressive, non-evangelical activism against Watchtower.

 

new-cedars-signature2

 

 

 

 

 

 

*An ad impression is when an ad is shown on a page or video. Simply by having the ad appear on the blog page you are reading, or the YouTube video you are watching, I receive a small amount of money from Google, who in turn receive money from the company whose ad was shown.

224 thoughts on “My response to the haters (and why I can’t always shake it off)

  • April 13, 2015 at 8:43 pm
    Permalink

    I just want to say that jw.org is here to say, I’m sure of it.
    There will always be die hard followers of the cult. We have needed this site and ones like it to keep helping us & others who are going through their awakening. The WT needs to have someone telling the other side of their propaganda story.

    Thank you again to John, his helpers & the commentators on here because I am now in a place where I have no emotional attachment to this religion.

    • April 14, 2015 at 6:28 am
      Permalink

      Grace, thank you for your comment. Most helpful.

    • April 15, 2015 at 1:44 pm
      Permalink

      Glad you found this site Grace and the comments helpful, I am in a similar position myself, I have no fear or place in the Org. after my awakening…..Keep up the good work John, there will always be the doubters and haters, rise above it, you’re doing a great job helping others to break free… Big Respect

  • April 13, 2015 at 11:45 pm
    Permalink

    Once you put yourself out in the public and people know details of your private life there will always be criticism against you. It’s the nature of the beast. At the same time the work you are doing does appeal to certain people and these people have been able to make a break from the JW’s.

  • April 14, 2015 at 3:17 am
    Permalink

    I haven’t always agreed with everything you put up Lloyd, but thats the fun world of opinion! Some people just cant manage other peoples opinion beyond their own dim tunnel vision in a normal human manner. I truly believe your intentions are in the right place. Critical thinking is one of the blessings of having a full functioning human brain at our disposal! Also, word of advice from what i’ve heard youtubers say regarding hate comments and trolling; for every 1 hateful comment you read, read 10 positive ones. Its the thing with our brains, we will notice the negative more than the positive, its a survival technique that served us better in the past when negative things usually meant real threats to our life. Stay strong and keep up the good work! :)

  • April 14, 2015 at 4:22 am
    Permalink

    It is our JW training to be prejudice and critical of anything that is different from us. Many of us have to constantly fight it. Many of us do not realize we are still not our own person but our personalities are still being shaped by the brainwashing techniques instilled by the organization. Some people can not grow out of it but just make a lateral move. I do believe your website is for those who want a better life and want to improve their situations. It is immensely beneficial to those who are seeking and need help and direction for climbing out of the JW darkness. And for those who want to understand what happened to them and how they could have been so manipulated. We want to know there are others just like us. Your website is the voice of reason and provides a much needed service. Please know that you are deeply appreciated.

  • April 14, 2015 at 6:05 am
    Permalink

    Back when this whole feud started, I liked Mike and Kim, and saw the rebuttal or video regarding Cedars on their channel, and I actually knew nothing about it, but watched it, and listened to their extremely obnoxious over-pronounced re-reading the email, and when you just listened to the words that were written by Cedars, there was absolutely nothing nasty or wrong with it, it was just in the absurd voice that Shyla was using to read it to make it seem like it was mean. I immediately stopped subscribing to their channels and stopped watching their videos, and all these other people started making rebuttal videos, which I didn’t watch, and stopped watching their videos all together. It felt too much like another clique situation. That’s the reason I don’t miss Jehovah’s Witnesses, the gossip, the elitism, the way you can’t say anything honest to anybody, because they simply can’t handle it, and someone with a lot of clout and a gang backing them up can make your life miserable. It’s the mentality of someone born and raised in the cult.

    Maybe it’s a conscious decision we all have to make to not act like a middle school clique anymore, because it’s simply not acceptable in the real world. People have to be able to state their opinions and discuss them, it’s the only way to grow and learn from others.

    Some people raised like that are still emotionally underdeveloped, which is so sad. It’s really sad they don’t understand fully what the Watchtower has done to them.

    When you have a bully in your life, it makes perfect sense to cut those people out of your life because they’re toxic, but the internet and your prominence makes it very hard.
    Nobody would blame you if you stepped back. Your bravery, knowledge, sincerity and honesty have inspired so many people to take up activism and educate themselves, I know the activism would continue.

    And the people who visit this website and discuss the articles openly and honestly, I’m sure do so for the same reason that I do, because it’s the only place I feel I can do just that.

    We only want the best for you and your family, and I know I’m not alone in my appreciation for you and your family. I’m so sorry it’s at such a cost. When you’re trying to help people who may be severely emotionally scared and damaged (not just Jehovah’s Witnesses), it can be so draining and sometimes dangerous, but you have to know when you’re burnt out or worn out. Take care of yourself and your family. We got you.

    • April 19, 2015 at 5:00 pm
      Permalink

      My thoughts exactly! The obnoxious voice was ridiculous and an infantile way to present what was being said. It took away all credibility from Shyla.

  • April 14, 2015 at 6:24 am
    Permalink

    Lloyd, hang on in there. That was the advice given to me by my bishop when I was in full-time ministry in the Anglican church. You have some good friends. I particularly liked Melka’s comment. Yes, I do want to see JWs won for Christ but not at the expense of their integrity. I recommend a book “When a Church becomes a Cult” written by a fellow Anglican Stephen Wookey who shows how easy it is for a mainstream church to become as repressive as a cult and I am not surprised that people have been put off. Please continue with your very helpful ministry.

  • April 14, 2015 at 8:42 am
    Permalink

    Cedars (Lloyd), your post took courage; I really hope it helped a bit to share your very natural depression about the bullying and threatening you’ve experienced. It’s resolutely human to feel depressed when we’re bullied and threatened.

    My spouse and I respect your diligent and compassionate work greatly and do our best to raise awareness about it, and you can see from the comments previously posted here how much you facilitate others to begin their own journey of exploration. But sometimes we need to take time out to connect back with our vital core being — the core that started all this in the first place!

    Of course you have the right to block abusive people; I, personally, wouldn’t engage with them any further but I know that can be easier said than done. Of course you have the right not to impoverish yourself because you are an activist; I, for one, look forward to seeing your book published, and expect to pay RRP for it. But I know you know all the arguments around such issues already, really.

    Perhaps take a break for a short while — regroup, recover, revive. See how you feel about your personal public involvement after that break. It might just be that you need to carve out more sacrosanct ‘you time’ with yourself, your wife, child, and very close friends).

    Whatever you decide, I do hope that book gets completed. And, on a professional level, please do use our email address to contact me re the possibility of placing reviews of your book in the UK media (free, naturally). [More details should you choose to privately email.]

    Sending waves of positive, warm vibes to you and Dijana and your child from Everyday Explorer and Everyday Explorer Spouse (yes, we’ve got to find a new name for that one!)

  • April 14, 2015 at 8:52 am
    Permalink

    Hang tough Brotha. Your work is invaluable. You’ve helped folks like me in the process of “waking up” and understanding that one can have a positive, productive life outside this harmful cult.

    I’m sorry you have to deal with the ill will but you’re too vital to the cause, don’t let them wear you down.

  • April 14, 2015 at 10:05 am
    Permalink

    I’d like to thank all my readers for the kind words of support and encouragement. Though this episode has been very draining, I am recovering well with Dijana’s support and coaching. I can’t walk away from my activism because it’s too important to me, but I think there is scope to manage myself better – perhaps by giving myself 1 or 2 days off each week where I don’t answer emails or go on Facebook. Whatever solution I arrive at, I really do appreciate the kind sentiments I’ve received, which strengthen my resolve to continue.

    • April 16, 2015 at 7:39 am
      Permalink

      Thank you so much for your work that help me a lot awaking. Big love from Canada to you and your little family :)

  • April 14, 2015 at 11:35 am
    Permalink

    Lloyd and Dijana, I am sorry to hear that you are having to experience such behavior. This is saddening and is a bit unsettling news. Commentor Melka and several others have touched on several of my same sentiments to you. I and my family personally cannot express enough how thankful we are for all that you have done up to this point for exposing the others to TTAT. Right next to JWFacts, your videos were the first we came across after leaving the cult. Your videos show that there is life (a good life) after the Witchtower, and that an “apostate” is not a miserable hateful person. But a happy, loving individual you cares about others; breaking the stereotype created by the WT. You present information in a way that is palatable. I could go on and on, but would like to say I hope the best for you and the family in whatever decision you make. You are truly giving a voice to the silent majority.

  • April 14, 2015 at 11:42 am
    Permalink

    I appreciate all you have done to bring to light so many things for me, individually. You have shared your story and your family, and I appreciate that. I am no longer a JW, and always struggled with it until I found your youtube channel. I check back daily to watch videos, I watch past videos. It is tough to be so public. Sending positive thoughts and American hugs to you and your family.

  • April 14, 2015 at 5:06 pm
    Permalink

    Greetings from Canada! Lloyd, I have never left a comment on your site but today I feel I must. When I read your post today it broke my heart. The hatred some have shown towards you has made me rethink the loyalty I expected from all Ex-JW’s. Evidently there is a subculture whose only mission is to subvert others, just the same as it was in the Organization, some old habits are hard to shake. Over the past 15 months I have developed a health condition which has forced me to take a leave of absence from work which has given me much extra time, which gave the the incredible opportunity to find your site. I have been disassociated since 1995, I am a 3rd generation JW, my Grandfather was a District Overseer, my Father an Elder was always the PO (I understand this title has now changed), both parents and my Sister were pioneers, I have cousins in the Canadian Branch serving on the Legal Committee. Both my parents are close friends with David and Linda Splane since the early 80’s when he was our Circuit Overseer. Personally I never bought into any of the teachings, the first thing I remember is when we had to put in a sticker over a paragraph in the Revelation book with a “new light”, that just did not seem right. Lloyd, I want you to know I also suffer from depression and it is a direct result of this destructive decisive cult. I attempted suicide twice thinking it would be better to leave this world behind and wake up in the Resurrection than have to live a lie to myself. The point I am trying to make is you have helped me tremendously. I find both yourself and Eric at JWStruggle to be very approachable in your manner. Although we have never had any direct communication between us I do consider you a friend. Thank you for your activism, it has made a positive difference in my life. I wish you nothing but happiness to you, your Wife and Daughter.

    • April 16, 2015 at 9:18 am
      Permalink

      Tim, that was a beautiful and uplifting comment. You might like to see my earlier comment to Lloyd.

  • April 14, 2015 at 6:50 pm
    Permalink

    I am sorry to hear you are being attacked by some folks on youtube. I saw a couple of the videos and those folks appear to be unstable. I absolutely love your site and videos and I often redirect folks to your material. You do a great job of presenting your ideas and opinions. My teenage stepdaughter has just recently “woke up” from the JW cult and has watched a couple of your videos and thinks you are great. You don’t come off as being fanatical or condescending. Take care of yourself and your family. Don’t let them get you down, sending hugs from the USA.

  • April 14, 2015 at 7:28 pm
    Permalink

    I just wanted to say “thanks” for all your hard work on this site. I look forward to new updates, which are very well articulated and presented. I was born in but left about 10 years ago. It is still a struggle dealing/not dealing with my family. I just want you to know I appreciate your effort and take comfort in knowing that I’m not alone. I think I speak for many ex jws in saying that you are the most respectful and intelligent voice out there. Don’t let the haters bring you down.

  • April 14, 2015 at 8:30 pm
    Permalink

    I also feel the need to make a comment, although I have not done so in the past. My husband and I left together almost a year ago. We’ve found your witty, insightful, well researched articles and videos unquantifiably helpful, reassuring us that we made the right decision. I echo everyone else’s comments about how much we truly understand and appreciate the hard work you put into all that you do.

    Sadly, it is very difficult for some to leave behind the thoughts and attitudes so prevalent in the organization. Judgement, character assassination, false accusation- are these not the hallmarks of what we left behind? It speaks more to the character of the accuser than the accused.

    We’ve all been at conventions when protesters were outside with placards and megaphones- we ignored them as instructed, feeling all the more righteous, convinced by the “persecution” that this was God’s organization. It’s been proven time and again to be, at best, a minimally effective technique in “waking people up”. One has to question if “waking people up” is the motivation of such ones or is their rage at being duped for so long, understandable though it may be, just uncontrolled.

    “Divide and conquer” is one of the most effective weapons in battle. Sadly, targeting each other can make us less, not more, effective in exposing the falsehoods of the organization.

    Everyone is entitled to state their opinion in a respectful way- bullying does not have to be tolerated and I applaud you for standing up against it. It can be hard but a truly mature, brave person will do it.

    You’re family, health and mental health come first- thought we all value the work you do, you need to take time for yourself and your family. You can’t give if the well is dry- though we’ll be missing your thoughts if you take some time away, it’s essential to do so if you want to keep doing this work that you truly excel at and that we all value so highly.

    Jim and I send you, Dijana and Jessica our warmest wishes, thoughts and hugs from Canada!!!

  • April 14, 2015 at 10:33 pm
    Permalink

    I’m terribly sorry to hear this but very glad I stumbled upon it. I almost got involved with a Mike and Kim in my desperation for emotional support. But I saw them in a youtube video and they seemed a little “off” to me. I also didn’t want to connect with ex- JWs that were still religious. It seemed like another dead end to me. However, I waver in my decision because I’m left so utterly alone. This has strengthened my resolve to look elsewhere for support. I have received some emotional support from atheists in Canada. There’s just no accounting for the behavior of some. Religion messes over people’s minds. I fear I will not live long enough to get myself untwisted. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with so much crazy making behavior from religious opposers. But you seem to have a good head about these things. Please know that there are people like me who find these articles life saving and are filled with gratitude that you have made the effort. It takes great strength and courage to do what you have done. Thank you.

  • April 14, 2015 at 11:52 pm
    Permalink

    John, the great Mark Twain said, “Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured.”
    As a former JW from Lancashire, England, I appreciate your work. But if it’s damaging you and your dearest, why carry on? It’s YOUR life. You’re not even going to get a gold watch and carriage clock for your efforts. That said I can feel your purpose in doing this. Take comfort in knowing the WTS is dying. Even when it sinks below the waterline, thousands will still cling to its festering remains. Whenever you get despondent due to venomous lowlife, think of the Twain quote.

    Doily.

  • April 15, 2015 at 7:54 am
    Permalink

    Hi Lloyd,
    First, I want to thank you (and your family) for all the time you have spent on this site in encouraging others by revealing the lies, deception, and untruth of the “Truth”. JOB WELL DONE!!!

    I made a comment here that was presumptuous about one of your positions. You respectfully rebutted that I was incorrect in my assumption. I didn’t take offense, because we are two different people with two different interpretations. We can live together in this world with differing opinions.

    As for those that cannot accept your opinions, I say, “Consider the source!” Obviously, these detractors are speaking from a religiously dogmatic point of view, and easily have their feelings hurt when someone disagrees with them. They think they’re sane and everybody who disagrees with them is either crazy or evil. Sound familiar? When you put yourself in a public light, such as this blog, there will always be detractors that WILL NOT rest without verbally beating a retraction out of you (or physically if they could). Again, sound familiar? Throughout history, there have always been religious bully-boys like the GB and religious tyrants of Islamic, Christian, and Jewish persuasions. Unfortunately, I believe there always will be according to human nature. If they aren’t crazy, then religious tyrants have always used religion for power by misleading the uneducated masses. Once again, sound familiar?

    Don’t let these people stop you from helping those who so deservedly need the support, help, and relief from religious tyrants such as the GB. You have my support and can do anything you like with a donation from me (I’m giving $25US after this posting). Buy a pint of beer or bottle of wine if you would like! You earned it. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!

    Mike (aka: Searcher)

  • April 15, 2015 at 12:21 pm
    Permalink

    Dear friend.

    I write friend, Lloyd, because i consider you as my friend. And that is so, even though we have never met in person nor online. You see, this is my first time to write a comment on an ex-JW forum. But after your post and the many sweet comments on your behalf, i just had to.

    I ended my activities with JW not so long ago. My convictions had become very different from that of JW, so i saw no other way. That has left me almost completely isolated, since i had no friends not being JW, and because my limited size JW family find it difficult to deal with the situation. So even though i have no wish to see the Watchtower-religion destroyed as such, on so many levels i see myself as a classic victim of a cult. So after ending my activities with JW, i was curious to see if there were others out there like me. And i was shocked, but in a good way. I just did not know. There are so many out there with similar experiences and research like me. Friends like you. That helps me a lot. I have read your block for a few months now, and i really enjoy it. You and your co-writers are intelligent but modest. Like me you seek truth, facts. You have skills that are very valuable, like using modern technology, communication etc. But most importantly, you are willing to spend yourself. We are so many that appreciate that. Thank you.

    I would love it if you continue writing. But i am not you. So whether you decide to continue, slow down or stop, it will be met with understanding and respect.

    Again. Thank you so much for all your work untill now. And thanks to your family too.

    JKL

  • April 16, 2015 at 1:06 am
    Permalink

    Dear Lloyd, Dijana and Jessica:

    What a lovely little family, You have. Please ignore personal attacks from folk who have basic psychiatric problems, fuelled by Religious mania.

    My partner was the subject of Police “enfitment” ten years ago. Three police officers lied under oath and bore false witness. I am about to go on a surprise holiday (they don’t know it) to Cuba…out of appreciation for the ONE officer that stood by my partner and saved a tragic suicide attempt on the Brecon Beacons.

    Ten years on we have weathered the hate of the ignorant, built a successful, family run business and found out who our “True” friends are. It has strengthened us to look through the “magnifying glass” again and look at “the Truth” of all things from many different angles. Suddenly our Kaleidoscope is pretty, ever changing and we humbly accept our different circumstances and views as part of the rich Tapestry of Life.

    At the risk of treading on toes here, a certain person said: “You will know the Truth and The Truth will set you free….” OK…I am not an Atheist, I feel I am probably an Agnostic now .. but veering towards the love of a Higher Power, A Creator if You will. But, that is my Comfort Platform.

    What can possible be wrong Lloyd…if you are seeking to establish the Truth in All Things.

    Ignore the Sickos who would pull you down and try to plant their own venomous creed to all that would listen to or read it.

    Stick up for the real Truth…and, at the same time let us be humble too, when we are proved to be wrong.

    Scrum down and large shoulders for you All… from this side of my PC!

  • April 16, 2015 at 5:56 am
    Permalink

    John, although I totally understand your inner sadness and frustration when you are being verbally attacked by people without cause, you should try to consider the source.
    You are doing a fine job helping people wake up to the fact that the Watchtower is a man made cult that is deceiving millions!
    Thanks for all of your videos.

  • April 16, 2015 at 7:55 pm
    Permalink

    You’re doing a good thing John. My sanity is in part due to you and your work.
    I love the work you do and big up to your wife for supporting you…
    From Jamaica
    With one love…

  • April 17, 2015 at 5:16 am
    Permalink

    Sad to see the XJW front crumble at the same time the WT get a victory in court.

  • April 17, 2015 at 5:36 am
    Permalink

    Lloyd,
    What can i say…. Iam from the UK also and have been out for just over a year… It was your site that helped me get out… Your site that has helped me get my wife and children out, and your site that has helped me get over the emotional stress.. I have seen parts of Mike and Kims youtube tirade against you and it is absolutely disgusting and utter utter rubbish… Your honest and emotional comments have helped me and my family no end and probably saved our lives… I have watched some of Mike and Kims videos before this and felt they were very odd and best stayed away from… They are not helping they just come off as nuts….. Please do not let them and people like them get you down, take a break whenever you need to have time for yourself…. I suffer from depression so i know what you are going though… SO if felt i had to comment to let you know that you are not alone my friend.. I do count you as one even though we have never met.. Why because when i was in my darkest hour of need and wondering how i could have fallen for such a cult.. You were always there and helped with your comments and videos and in my mind thats what friend are for… Now its time to return the favour we are all here for you and your family… All the best from Me and mine…. AND A BIG BIG THANK YOU for being one of the best friends ive ever had!!!

    BB5179

  • April 17, 2015 at 3:25 pm
    Permalink

    zeebo, Check out the number of sites, exposing WT,
    “Absurdities”.

  • April 17, 2015 at 9:21 pm
    Permalink

    I’m stunned. I never would have thought that others who left don’t appreciate all you have done like I do. I really don’t get it.
    You wound think that people who left a high pressure control group would be the last ones to want to inflict that on others.
    I would recommend just posting your blog and podcast and cutting yourself off from others posts and comments. Who needs em?
    But people like me who left definitely need you .

  • April 18, 2015 at 3:56 am
    Permalink

    I didn’t know Tony Prime had a video out where he was attacking Lloyd until I saw Lloyd’s article here so out of curiosity, I watched Tony’s video several times. I also went to Joel’s unwitness video that Tony said that Lloyd had spent all day going back and forth with a guy by the name of David and that David accused Lloyd of making comments and then deleting them so that David had saved all the comments that Lloyd had removed and reposted them so I read all the comments that Lloyd had made that day and also David’s comments and what I saw from David’s comments were nothing but attacks on Lloyd saying that Lloyd thought he was an elder still and all he wanted was money and on and on. It was nothing but character assignations against Lloyd because it seemed Lloyd had taken Joel’s video as against Lloyd’s video personally on how he couldn’t support “agressive” activism anymore. That is what that David character was so mad about. That David character could have just said that they agreed to disagree but no, he went on and on with his cruel comments about Lloyd. Lloyd’s comments were short and not cruel but that David’s comments were cruel and very long. Then Mike and Kim chimed in with their comments about Lloyd’s making money etc.

    I feel sorry for Tony. It seems that he’s very angry but it seems that most of his anger is directed at Lloyd because Lloyd has said that if it weren’t for the generous donations from some people, that he wouldn’t be able to spend as much time on his videos. I have seen Eric’s JWstruggle video where he was also asking if people could help him so he could do better videos too. Others also depend on donations. When I saw Eric’s video, I sent him some money. I don’t think Eric is making money when he says that with a few bucks, he can update his camera. That to me, tells me that these guys are doing their work for the love of the people still stuck in the cult but that they are poor, like the rest of us.

    Mike and Kim had a donation button on their web site and they took it down because they were accused of “making money” but they said all they got was something like $19 so it wasn’t worth the grief they got so they took the donation money button down. Also, when they first opened up their web site, they said that somebody donated the money to fund the web site for a year or they could never have done it so obviously it is very expensive to operate and own a web site such as jwsurvey. Lloyd has never said how much time he spends on this web site and how much time he spends reading literature and watching videos so he can come up with quality videos and he has never said how much time it takes away from his family and his paying job of translating either and he could do that, but hasn’t.

    Tony Prime should take a step back and reason on what he said in that video. If he reasoned it all out, there was no reason for that video. It is very sad and there was nothing for Lloyd to do but explain his side of it.

    By the way, when I first came into the “truth”, I wanted to be a pioneer and missionary. Anybody in the “truth” who really loves it, would want to be an elder if they are a young man. We all loved it until we learned that the “truth” really wasn’t the “truth” after all.

    • April 19, 2015 at 8:56 pm
      Permalink

      What’s really sad is that Tony Prime made an animated baby Cedars photo and posted it on Facebook, saying that the doctor recommended terminating the fetus. This is just unacceptable!!! Do these people even realize their own cruelty and inhumanity? THEY are behaving like sociopaths…NOT Cedars!

      • April 19, 2015 at 10:57 pm
        Permalink

        That’s appalling, Lola! The only thing I’ve seen of his was the first 5 minutes or so of a YouTube video where he gate crashed one of the 2015 Memorial celebrations in the States. I didn’t bother to watch the whole thing because I found it rather embarrassing.

  • April 18, 2015 at 5:28 am
    Permalink

    @Anonymous,
    I watched the video too since I was home sick, and all I saw an attempted smear campaign. But I also feel bad for Tony Prime. It seems like he’s a pawn, but when you just take a step back, it doesn’t make sense. But from what the comments suggest, is there is a little group on a vicious witch hunt, and if you suggest anything “against” their accusations, you’re against them.
    But regarding the donations with they actually made a huge deal about: When I first woke up and was trying to find out what was really going on in the world of politics, I couldn’t find out a clear story or believe anything I was reading, because I found out all the tv stations and radio stations and media in general was being bought off by someone who decides what the public is supposed to read and hear about. It’s all propaganda, so my favorite radio station and news station on the internet is independently run, and I kid you not, they ask for donations probably once every 10 minutes. But I donate, because that’s the only way they can operate, obviously. Nobody’s buying them off. And the insults about how Cedars travels but doesn’t have a fridge. It made my heart hurt. Here he goes out and spends his own money to travel and interview people, and the quality of information he puts out is so good, that’s why people wake up. It’s not someone sitting on their couch telling someone else their “opinions”, there’s always tons of research involved. That’s why this whole thing makes me so furious. What these people are doing is just plain idiotic. They’re not putting out the same kind of material, we better hope they’re not successful in the smear campaign they’re running. We both woke up because of this website.

  • April 19, 2015 at 10:31 am
    Permalink

    How horrible that people treated you in such a disrespectful manner. I strongly feel if they don’t like what you are posting, why can’t they just move on? Ugh.
    I, for one, appreciate your YouTube videos and this blog so much, and do think of you as a friend. Your blog and videos have helped me tremendously as I escaped this horrible religion. Any ex JW worth their salt, knows the hard work and time that you put into to your videos and blog. Studying for meetings was a cakewalk compared to the study and research you’re doing NOW in your activism.
    I get the depression. I get that you had a moment and wanted to tell someone off on Facebook or a YouTube comment. You work hard, your intentions are pure, who wouldn’t be hurt and angry and depressed when one is attacked trying to help others???
    I say those who attack are those who have serious issues. Maybe they’re just disgruntled disfellowshipped people that still want to be witnesses and can’t, so they keep the mentality and try to form their own religious beliefs and shoot down any who don’t agree. In other words, they’re just disfellowshipped ‘wanna be’ witnesses with a wacky agenda.
    Lloyd, you’ve completely and successfully left this cult with a sound mind and heart. The nutcases don’t like that. I left. I wish nothing bad on any practicing witness. I see you don’t either. But these wacky ex witnesses just keep hating and bashing and carrying on with their nutty agendas, rather than exposing the “truth” for what it is. Falsehood. Man made doctrine. Baloney. Wacky teachings that keep changing with “new light”.
    I’ve spent years struggling with depression and struggled being raised in a religion that constantly made me feel I wasn’t good enough. That I was certain to die if I didn’t make all the meetings or get the required field service time in. Recipe for depression if you ask me. Then add disfellowshipping and complete estrangement from family. THAT’S not depressing. :/
    My sincere hope is that you take care of yourself and your wife and daughter. Understand the haters are projecting their hatred of themselves onto you. Ridiculous. Of course it’s hurtful. These people haven’t worked through their issues and attack the one person who makes sense. You.
    I wish you all the best, and if I were rich, I’d buy you a house!! That’s how much gratitude I have for all the work you’ve done.
    Take care, Lloyd. Please know you are respected and held in high esteem by many.

  • April 20, 2015 at 4:06 am
    Permalink

    I just posted a comment that got lost

  • April 21, 2015 at 9:58 am
    Permalink

    Every once in awhile I find myself presented with a situation that warrants attention. I believe this to be one of those occasions. I say these words with as much objectivity as I can.
    Hello Mr. Cedar;
    My girlfriend was trapped within the JW organization for the first 35 yrs of her life(literally trapped) as only a JW could know what I mean. She introduced me to your You Tube shows over these last couple years and out of all the variety of peoples videos she has shown me I do think yours offer the most effecient methods of peeling away the layers of crud this organization stacks in ones being.
    I thank you for all your great words of wisdom and thank you for your compassion and approach towards this sensitive topic. I believe in your approach, it is rooted with kindness and empathy. I have seen first hand the results of your method unpacking all the damaging luggage that my girlfriend has had to carry around for so long. So I say thank you
    In return for your kindness, generosity and selfless acts. I wish to give you what I can. You and your family are always welcome in my home and if I am lucky enough to ever get the opportunity to help you in any way I surely will.
    Some things I have learned:
    The past is regret and the future is fear so all I have is now.
    I can not control outside events, I can only control how I react to those events
    the eyeball can not look at itself, meaning we all need each other to for self evaluation.
    I have more but will save those for another time. The bottom line is, I wish you and your family well, and will always be grateful for your hard work.
    Peas Out

  • April 21, 2015 at 10:30 am
    Permalink

    I have been reading the articles you post and watching your videos for the past few months. While I don’t agree with everything you have to say, I still enjoy them and have found them really helpful in what has been a very stressful time in my life. I appreciate very much all of the hard work you put in to helping people like myself wake up to the fact that they have been involved in a religion that is not chosen by God, but a harmful, deceptive cult that breaks up families. I have tried to watch Mike and Kim, but found them very grating and they come across in an unintelligent way. You come across as someone who is informed, well read, and you present your information with warmth and humor. I am sorry you have had to suffer at the hands of others who I am sure are just jealous of your abilities, but I hope you will be able to continue your work, as there are a lot of us out here who appreciate it!

  • April 23, 2015 at 9:25 am
    Permalink

    Where is my post of April 20th? Eliminated, lost, spammed?

    • April 23, 2015 at 9:53 am
      Permalink

      The only comment you made on April 20th that shows up on our records is “I just posted a comment that got lost.”

  • April 24, 2015 at 5:24 am
    Permalink

    So sad that we escaped from one group of loveless people to the outside world, then found that Jehovahs witnesses are partially right in saying that there’s no love in the world.
    I’m also annoyed by the over righteous that have jumped ship to another narrow mindset.
    John, you are a valuable person to a lot of us in the ex-jw arena. Thank you for bearing your soul. It makes the opposition I get from ex-jws who have turned christian, easier to bear.
    I hope you recover from this undeserved tirade of abuse soon.
    I just wanted you to know that I care.

  • April 27, 2015 at 6:13 am
    Permalink

    There are many wonderful / encouraging comments left here for you . I can’t anything more except….take care of your little family , they must come first in everything you do, but sadly you will not be able to give them 100% of yourself until you learn to take care of you. They are and should be your first priority .
    These people who make nasty comments are more to be pitied …they are lonely /sad/ angry / frustrated individuals. People who are secure /happy / loving /content do not behave towards like they are towards you …even if you disagree with someone you don’t behave like they do . ex JW for over 30 years …BTW way I enjoy your YouTube videos. Take care from an old granny .

  • May 1, 2015 at 12:42 pm
    Permalink

    MY VERY DEAR FRIENDS WE MUST DECIDE IF SOMETHING BEFORE US IS A STUMBLING BLOCK OR A STEPPING STONE.THERES AN OLD RUSSIAN SAYING” A HAMMER WILL CRUSH GLASS OR MOLD IRON” YOU MUST BE DETERMINED TO HAVE AN IRON WILL , NERVES OF STEEL, BALLANCED WITH A HEART OF GOLD. NEVER , NEVER , EVER GIVE UP. YOU MUST HAVE HIGH SELF ESTEME, HIGH SELF WORTH AND HIGH SELF RESPECT.I WAS BAPTIZED IN 74. INSPITE OF MY TRUE REPENTANCE I WAS DISFELLOWSHIPPED. THE IRONY OF THE WHOLE THING IS THAT ONE OF THE ELDERS ON MY JUDICIAL COMITTEE WAS ALSO DISFELLOSHIPPED FOR ADULTRY ONLY A FEW MONTHS AFTER MYSELF. WHILE HE WAS JUDGING ME HE WAS COMITTNG FORNICATION. I’VE BEEN OUT FOR 10 YEARS. IT’ BEEN ONE OF THE BEST THINGS THATS EVER HAPPENED IN MY LIFE. THE HEAVY LOAD OF THE WT IS OFF MY BACK. HOW GREAT IT IS TO BE FREE OF THOSE CONTROL FREAKS. PRAY FOR COURAGE, STRENGTH AND WISDOM. MY LOVE TO ONE AND ALL.

  • May 2, 2015 at 1:20 pm
    Permalink

    I just wanted to thank you for all your efforts and well written articles. You are by far my favourite EX-JW whistle blower and you have helped me tremendously with my own struggles of undue influence. It saddens me to know you’re going through abuse from people that are old enough to know better. I struggle to believe that after escaping such a dangerous cult and loosing so much (family contact), you have to suffer the indignity of slanderous attacks from ex-jw’s on youtube. I am an atheist like you and wouldn’t dream of attacking my enemies so publicly and with so much vitriol, yet it seems to come so easily and shamelessly from supposed “christians”

    Please know that you have my full support and if theres anything I can do to help, please don’t hesitate to contact me. Don’t give up Lloyd, you’re an inspiration. All the best.

  • May 5, 2015 at 7:04 am
    Permalink

    A puddle will always be a puddle.

  • May 6, 2015 at 12:12 am
    Permalink

    I am so sorry to hear this. You know it is strange myself and my mom could never watch any of Mike & Kim’s videos. They seem a bit extreme and weird. I always enjoy your videos and I am so sorry that they have attacked you. I pray that they stop with this attack on you. I pray for your depression and that you are able to get along with your great work. You have contributed so greatly in the ExJW community and I pray you don’t allow this to stop you. I hope that your wife is able to be stress free and that these people leave you guys alone. This is sick that they would go this far. My heart goes out to you and your family. Please stay strong. :-)

  • May 7, 2015 at 8:10 am
    Permalink

    The irony is amazing to me. You have been deceived, not only because you allowed yourself to be, but because you invited it. Most activists have a mission and will stop at nothing in their attempt to see it through. You see, just because someone claims to be something online does not mean they are. Oh, BTW, I am an astronaut (see how easy that is). You allowed yourself to be used by fundies who want to take down JW for their own selfish (and often quite destructive purpose). The enemy of your enemy is NOT your friend. Funny, JW (regardless of what some people claim) do not take part in these false smear campaigns. Here’s an idea – leave people alone. “You knew it was a crocodile when you were offered a ride across the river”. It is hard to imagine you are truly this surprised. I do wish you healing for your depression and peace for your family. God can help with that. . .

    • May 14, 2015 at 4:57 am
      Permalink

      The irony,

      The WTBTS have engaged in smear campaigns!

      What about describing the United Nations as a scarlet coloured wild beast? Oh, and then they go and join it as an NGO!

      What about describing people of other faiths and atheists as worthy of having their eyes pecked out by birds when Armageddon comes?

      The list goes on and on

      Anyone who is not a Jehovah’s Witness gets smeared!

      Your lack of compassion and reasoning skills marks you as a fully paid up member of this disgusting cult.
      DO YOUR RESEARCH!

      Peace be with you, Excelsior!

Comments are closed.