I suffer from depression, but even at my darkest moments, when my mind has briefly flirted with notions of suicide, I’ve always thought what a bad choice that would be.
There are just so many different ways a person’s life could be configured. So whenever it feels like there is no way out, I’ve always found myself able to reason that surely there MUST be another way of living that is less soul-destroying – even if the journey to that change of circumstances might be difficult.
Many of you will remember I was attacked towards the end of last year for voicing an opinion on “aggressive activism,” which is my definition for the goading, taunting and confronting of bewildered cult victims – either at places of worship or during their public preaching work – by indignant, vengeful exJWs.
In response to simply offering my opinion on this issue (doing so without naming any names), I was accused of being a stalker, a wife beater, a cult leader, a cyber-bully, and even a potential pedophile – with my baby daughter seemingly at risk from me.
As hurtful as this torrent of abuse has been, what has been even more alarming is the ease with which the ringleaders behind these accusations have managed to recruit a group of sympathizers, and manipulated these into believing that THEY are the true victims in this whole scenario – not me.
Also troubling is the complete lack of restraint and basic human decency from this mob, many of whom claim to be Christian. For example, two particularly vocal critics of mine called Mike and Kim are so passionate about bringing Jehovah’s Witnesses to Christ that they have apparently set up their own state-registered ministry.
These same people have sat in front of a camera to deliver a 90-minute tirade featuring all of the aforementioned accusations, apparently seeing no conflict with their Holy Book’s calls to “suffer evil” and “be peaceable with all men.”
Though I expect proponents of evangelical activism (“leave Watchtower and embrace our, correct version of Christianity”) to take issue with my openness about my agnosticism/atheism, I find it troubling that the likes of Mike and Kim have been so successful in exploiting the aggressive activism controversy as a smokescreen to pursue their agenda of trying to silence my agnostic views – to the point of hoodwinking even non-religious exJWs into flocking to their anti-Cedars banner.
When the backlash reached its zenith just before Christmas, I seriously considered breaking some of the tension with a light-hearted video in which I would sing a parody song aimed at debunking Mike and Kim’s accusation that I am obsessed with their daughter, who previously helped me with my work. I envisioned a video in which I would be seated at a piano, Gary Barlow-style, singing plaintively to a framed picture of her, delivering a mock confession of my love for her, and mourning that it was unrequited.
But thankfully I snapped out of doing this video when I remembered that the person in question has been known to suffer from depression. However funny the video might have been to some, and however successful it might have been at rubbishing the claims that I was fixated with this girl, how would I have felt if she had committed suicide soon after it was circulated? I would have felt utterly devastated, and responsible for her loss.
All about the money?
Since all of that, there has been a fresh wave of attacks. Apparently my already-long list of fabricated/embellished crimes has been added to, with claims that I am profiteering from my work as an activist (to the tune of over $10,000 per year), that I live in a “hole” of a country, that I make my wife work while I do nothing, that I “disfellowship” people who disagree with me, that I am fat and ugly (well, maybe that’s true), and that I have been too ready to defend myself in conversations with trolls on Facebook and YouTube.
I’ve mostly been able to shrug off all this mud-slinging, knowing full well I have nothing to hide.
As far as my finances are concerned – yes I have Google ads on my website, but so does JWfacts. Yes I have a PayPal button for donations, but so does JWstruggle (and a LOT of other exJW websites, none of which seem to be under siege for the heresy of accepting money). And I also plead guilty to having a Patreon button at the end of my videos for people who want to donate to my work – but nobody is forced to click through and pledge donations.
My articles and videos are available to people entirely free of charge, and will remain so.
Any proceeds from Google Ad impressions* ($125 per month), YouTube ad impressions ($110 per month), or regular donations ($63 per month) get ploughed straight into my business to help pay for new equipment and justify the considerable time spent away from my regular job (translating and proofreading) while doing research and producing content. (For example, my 2-hour rebuttal video to the Gerrit Losch JW broadcasting episode took three days to put together, which would be hard to justify if it wasn’t part of my job.)
There have been occasions where large, one-off donations have been made either to help our family (most notably when we had Jessica’s baby shower) or to assist with my activism (i.e. when two large donations were received to help fund our trip to London for the conference on undue influence) – but this money has never come with strings attached, i.e. that I must endorse Christianity and stay silent about my unbelief. My supporters have simply been willing to help out as the need arises, and they have been placed under no compulsion to do so.
Unlike many of the people who are styling me as a rich cult leader sponging off gormless followers and abuse victims, I don’t yet have a fridge, a TV, a sofa or a kitchen. I REALLY AM doing my activism because I want to free people both now and in the future from cult indoctrination. My work is offered freely, and I don’t see why I should be made to turn down acts of kindness when these are extended simply to appease my critics.
The only work I ever intend to charge for will be my book, which I will aim to price as reasonably as possible once it is finally finished and published. No doubt once it goes on sale I will receive a fresh wave of abuse from people who will quickly forget how much they paid to read the words of Steven Hassan, Jim Penton, Carl Olof Jonsson or Ray Franz and paint me as a greedy profiteer all over again – but it is pointless trying to keep such people happy.
Is blocking someone on Facebook “shunning?”
I have also come under fire for my practice of blocking people on Facebook who are either critical of my activism, or abusive towards me, or supportive/defensive of those who are abusive towards me. I fail to understand why I am obliged to use Facebook, not as a tool for keeping in touch with my friends and readers, but as an implement of ritual self-flagellation that I must use to entertain the scathing rants and banal sniping of my mostly-anonymous, mostly-evangelical critics on a daily basis.
Telling me I’m not allowed to block or unfriend people on Facebook who are nasty is like telling me I MUST stand and listen to random people shout at and berate me if I encounter them while out shopping. I am perfectly within my rights to walk away from any such situation and get on with whatever it was I was doing. I don’t HAVE to punish myself with nonsense just for the sake of it.
It’s worth remembering that nobody is forcing anyone to watch my videos OR read my blog articles. If you hate me and my work so much I have excellent news – you don’t HAVE to follow me or read/watch my work. You can do activism the way YOU want to do it, or find an activist whose videos and blogs are more to your liking. Or you can avoid taking in “apostate” material altogether, if that’s your problem.
And no, I am not in the business of “shunning” people who disagree with me. I am merely choosy about who my friends are. I have plenty of people on my Facebook friends list with whom I don’t see eye to eye on a range of issues, but I find they are able to put their points across without evangelizing or resorting to ad hominem insults and accusations, so I am only too happy to keep them in my circle and benefit from their perspective.
And frankly, I find the use of the word “shunning” in describing any situation other than estrangement from family or close friends to be an insult – especially by people who should know the difference between being prevented from commenting on a blog or Facebook page and having all contact with family terminated forever.
Taking its toll
Usually I am able to shrug off all the above silliness, content with the fact that I am doing the best I can for all the right motives, and making some modest headway in waking people up (if my email inbox is to be believed).
But today I was out mingling with some of my friends who live in my village, and something fairly innocuous happened that sent me spiraling into the realization that the level of abuse being directed at me from self-righteous keyboard warriors on the other side of the Atlantic really is starting to take its toll.
I didn’t feel suicidal, but I definitely felt a huge wave of sadness and futility.
I went home and talked to my wife Dijana about what I was feeling, and she told me she was feeling pressured by the situation too. Whenever I am talked about, or our family is talked about, by obsessive lunatics who are more fixated with me than they are with Watchtower, Dijana finds herself worrying and fretting over what effect this will have on me, and whether we are safe from these clearly disturbed individuals (bearing in mind we have already received two menacing cards through the post from an individual in America calling himself/herself “John Smith”).
What upsets Dijana most is that, amidst all this hatred and vitriol, she feels forced to put on a brave face for our daughter Jessica, because she is worried that if she lets her sadness show when spending time with our baby this might subconsciously rub off on her, or make her feel that she is somehow not living up to expectations.
Dijana also can’t help but feel enraged when she sees her picture (taken from our translation company website), being shared around on Facebook “hate Cedars” groups, the members of whom then speculate that she is the victim of an oppressive, abusive husband. If she were herself an outspoken activist, or vocal about anything beyond whale conservation, she could perhaps understand all the scrutiny – but she is content to let me get on with my activism and focus on being a mother, and thus finds it all very intrusive.
This conversation with Dijana, and the realization that the fanatical obsessions of a few troubled individuals in America are having a tangible impact on our family has led to my writing this article by way of pleading with any exJWs out there who might have been swayed by my attackers to apply some logic and reason, and show some compassion.
I am not a cult leader. I am not a leader of any sort, and would repudiate any attempts to make me one. I am an ordinary man with a wife and daughter who just happens to be an activist against a cruel cult. And yes, I happen to not be religious.
Of course I have made mistakes, and perhaps gone too far at times when confronting trolls and critics on Facebook and YouTube – but nothing I have said or done has even remotely warranted the tsunami of hatred and vitriol that has been directed against me and my family over the past few months.
A plea for decency
All I ask of my fellow ex cult-members is some basic human decency – the same instincts of solidarity and compassion that made me pull back from making a stupid piano video that I would have almost certainly regretted.
I am not a suicide threat, and my depression is manageable, but I do have a wife and baby daughter – and when you attack me with completely unfounded and specious allegations, you attack them as well. Dijana in particular really does feel the reverberations, to the point of wanting to write to some of the ringleaders herself.
It has long been a notable irony that the majority of opposition to my activism work comes, not from Watchtower or Jehovah’s Witnesses, but from my fellow ex-JWs. I’ve noticed from conversations with activists against other cults that this is not an isolated phenomenon. People who have exited other high-control groups have also been known to turn on each other, and make each other scapegoats for their issues and frustrations.
If it were only me who was taking the heat for having an opinion, and not being afraid to voice it, I think I could handle much of what I’ve been subjected to – content to simply block persistent trolls and fanatics who are hell-bent on character-assassinating me.
But when it starts to affect my family, I do feel a need to draw the line. This abuse has to stop. If you happen to be involved in any way, I implore you to please find something or someone else who is worthy of your frustrations. There are seven men in Brooklyn who export truckloads of pain and misery on a daily basis that I can strongly recommend.
***UPDATE October 2015***
Not long after this article was published, JWsurvey received a “cease and desist” letter from lawyers representing Mike and Kim Brooks. The letter, dated April 20th 2015, insisted that this page be removed and that “no further mention of the Brooks family be made by [Lloyd Evans] on his websites, Facebook, Podcast, YouTube, Vimeo, Patreon, or others.”
After discussions between myself and the webmaster, John Hoyle, it was decided that this article would not be taken down, because I had every right to respond to misinformation that was being circulated about me online by this couple in particular.
However, after discussions with someone acting as something of a go-between with Mike and Kim, it was decided as a gesture of goodwill to remove a link showing the registration of their “Mike Kim Ministries Inc” organization, on the understanding that if I would at least refrain from further talking about the couple online they would reciprocate. I readily agreed to this since I have no interest in talking about Mike and Kim Brooks or their exploits on this website or on my YouTube channel. I was also increasingly concerned that posting a link to an internet page where the couple had made their address public might undermine their safety.
A few months passed with very little being said by my community of “haters.” Eventually the hour-long rant by the Brooks family was removed from Mike, Kim and Shyla’s channels – I assume out of embarrassment over the blow-back from their thoroughly-discredited accusations that I am a stalker, wife-beater, and potential sex offender. I allowed myself to think my haters had found more productive uses of their time than to follow my every move, question my motives and fantasize about my private life.
Then, when I announced my plans for a special “JWsurvey Day” video featuring a montage of different exJWs, one of my most fixated online critics Joel Martz, AKA “The UnWitness,” uploaded a video criticizing me for planning a video in which exJWs would be shown as happy, because apparently this lived up to the stereotype of apostates as being selfish.
Around this time, there was an unfortunate incident on Facebook one evening when I was tired and irritated. A post was put up in the mostly-secular JW Podcast group, for which I am an admin, that was nothing more than a scripture with no comment or explanation. Assuming it to be an attempt at trolling by a Watchtower-apologist, I posted a meme with text that read: “Who left the gate open at the cunt farm?” I then checked to find out who the poster was, and discovered it wasn’t a JW but someone on my friends list who happened to be a Christian. I immediately deleted the post, made another post to the effect that it would be appreciated if people could refrain from putting up scripture-only posts, and thought nothing more of it.
A few days passed and I was directed to a video by Alun Williams – an evangelical Christian fanatic who had already made a number of videos ranting against me because I am an unbeliever. Alun had apparently been contacted by a lady, whose name he didn’t immediately divulge, who was upset at how I had treated her on Facebook. Though I was perplexed as to why this person had approached Alun with her grievances and not me, I contacted her on Facebook as soon as I learned of her identity and gave her a personal apology. I also issued the following public apology on the group where Sharon had been aggrieved…
Despite the apology, Alun Williams continued to issue a stream of videos vilifying me for my mistake including such titles as “John Cedars – You don’t feed us,” “John Cedars – Parasites,” and “John Cedars – Narcissist.”
Then today, on October 10 2015, I woke up to discover a fresh YouTube diatribe by Mike Brooks, who (together with his wife) I understood had moved on from his agenda against me. Having learned about the Facebook issue, Mike had taken it upon himself to be the judge and jury for something I had already issued a public apology for. The fact that it took me nine days to apologize to Sharon (simply because I didn’t keep a record of who it was I needed to apologize to, and had to wait for the name to appear in Alun Williams’ video) was shown as further evidence of my depravity. And once again, my wife Dijana was declared to be in an abusive relationship – warned that both her and my baby daughter Jessica are at risk from me.
Even more astonishingly, I was threatened with physical violence if I ever find myself in New Mexico, with Mike saying he would risk going to jail to give me my comeuppance. Apparently threats of physical violence as retribution for something someone has already apologized for can be considered perfectly Christlike behavior.
I am now getting used to the fact that the slightest slip-up, real or imagined, will be gleefully leapt upon by Mike and Kim, Alun Williams and others from the further reaches of the evangelical wing of the exJW community. What I struggle to fathom is how they can justify lambasting someone for a fairly innocuous error of judgment, who has since apologized publicly, while calling themselves Christian. Didn’t Jesus supposedly tell Peter to forgive his brother up to seventy-seven times? Why can I not be forgiven for calling someone a cunt for a few seconds before the post is deleted, and later apologizing publicly?
For the record, Mike and Kim and I were originally on quite friendly terms, but our relationship quickly deteriorated after a series of Facebook exchanges in which it became obvious that any disagreement between us, however friendly, was interpreted by them as an “attack” and “bullying.” They have since pursued activism against me with almost as much energy as they pursue it against Watchtower, seemingly for no other reason than jealousy and the fact that I do not share their religious beliefs.
I understand this update will make for uncomfortable reading, especially for those who like to think of the Ex-JW community as a tranquil haven where former Witnesses unite against a common foe. But the truth is, the “community” is nothing more than a loose-knit group of vastly different people who happen to have shared the same devastating experience.
Some try to use that experience to help others. Some channel the anger and frustration against their fellow cult-survivors. Still others go to the extreme of fixating against those who are perceived to have a bigger audience than they do, and will stop at nothing to drag them down – including inventing accusations. Such behavior highlights just how corrosive Watchtower’s undue influence can be, and makes me more determined than ever to pursue my activism, and answer my critics in the best way possible – by pursuing effective, non-aggressive, non-evangelical activism against Watchtower.
*An ad impression is when an ad is shown on a page or video. Simply by having the ad appear on the blog page you are reading, or the YouTube video you are watching, I receive a small amount of money from Google, who in turn receive money from the company whose ad was shown.
Please don’t stop writing here. They will win if you do. Yes, ignor the simpletons! What a bunch of losers.
I am also American but not whatever ilk of American they are…the mindset of these individuals does’t seem a whole lot removed from the cult like thinking JWdom is. They have not awakened. They have just slipped into another delusion.
Love your work, Lloyd.
The Abusive people that attack you Lloyd used to be Active JWs which says a LOT about the Personality of Type of people that WERE in the Organisation & who are Still in . The Organisation is BASED on Hate filled Doctrine:
SHUNNING Family Members because they Smoke or QUESTION Doctrine or They GROW a BEARD ,That’s the Women I’m talking about??
SHUNNING Sisters if They WEAR TROUSERS to a Meeting !!!
You will not be seen as a Good CHRISTIAN or used on the Platform at Assemblies or Kingdom Halls if you Commit the Above UNFORGIVEABLE SINS!!
Never mind if you are the Kindest Caring Individuals!!
Doesn’t it show how PHARISAICAL & UNCHRISTIAN the Organisation run by 7 American Men is ?????
I place you and Paul Grundy in high regard. It was your site I stumbled on last year almost to the day. Lloyd, I will never forget how you cracked open a shell that needed to be opened so bad! I too am a new father like you and after my daughter’s birth and all the HLC crap we went through it made me question our whole belief system. My only regret is I wasn’t awake when Ray Franz was still alive. You woke me up! You saved me and my little family! So don’t give up, don’t give into the bullies. If they want to fight someone, want to make a difference, take on WTBS, take on the GB. Forget wasting time with a small fry like yourself.
John Zackerdelly
@John Z . Hospital Liasion Is a Joke!! I asked one member isn’t it Kind of WORLDLY People to Donate Blood as we JWs can get LIFE SAVING Blood Fracttions such AS Hemoglobin,Factor 8 & Albumin(Breast cancer Treatment) from Donated Blood & isn’t it Ironic that we JWs USE WORLDLY people’s Donated Blood to save JW Lives !!’
JW Women are 44 times more Likely to Die in Childbirth because of refusing Blood Transfusions than Non JW women giving Birth!! The Research was done in Norway!! 7 American GB MEN are MURDERERS because of Claiming to be SPIRIT DIRECTED???
The reason I started reading your blog to begin with is because YOU AREN’T an insane, overly bitter, and going to the other extreme ex-JW. I think I speak for many when I say we have been able to relate to you when it comes all the ups and downs of being a human . That being said, Dear Mike and Kim and (other crazy people) Stop being insane. If you want to weep for Jesus go for it. Grow up already. It is infuriating that anyone has to worry about their family just because they do not agree with what others think or say. If you don’t like what Mr Cedars says, you do not have to read it or listen to it. Isn’t that magical? But some of want to. That is exactly the reason Jw’s are able to make such a good argument against “apostates”.Because people start acting like they need to get put on anti-psychotics.
Those cards are creepy! That is a seriously abusive person right there who did that. I mean… who does that! I’m also an atheist ex-jw who left over 10 years ago. Your page and videos are invaluable. More power to you! It will get better!
I’m sorry to read this report. And by the way. You are of course allowed to block abusive people at Facebook. Kick them, come off with them. Don’t waste your precious lifetime with characterless people. And by the way. If these id..ts furthermore “threaten” you, speak to the police. Take care, Cedars.
PS. Of course I’m sorry for the parents who lost their daughter. They should seek professional help though.
John,
Although your work is highly appreciated, perhaps for the better of yourself and your family…it would be good to take a sabbatical from your activism. Really give this some serious thought.
Cheers, DS
I am so sorry for you and your wife Lloyd. What you do is very important, but your health and well-being is much more important.
Like others have said, take a break, regroup and come back stronger.
As Mark Twain said:
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.’
Often linked with the above is:
“I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.” (George Bernard Shaw).
Never answers dear Cédars
Silence is one of the arguments more difficult to refute…
Haters: who needs them? Life is too short for haters. Keep up the good work. Maybe take a break from time to time too, because if you don’t give to yourself, you can’t keep giving to others.
Cedars, whenever you put yourself out against oppression there will always be aggression. Remember, you have true freedom…these ‘haters’ are still stuck in the cult of religion.
I’m sorry you have to go through this, keep in mind, you’ve helped many to wake up or stay awake and that’s no small feat!
I recommend taking a day and going to the seaside or just going out with the family and NOT discussing anything JW-related…just enjoy the day and your beautiful family.
Much love,
Sardec.
Lloyd, I’m so sorry that you and Dijana are suffering because of some spiteful people who are full of hatred. I just want to let you know that your blogging and videos are really needed. I was studying with Jehovah Witnesses and was very close to becoming one of them when I came across your website which prevented me making a decision that would have ruined my life. Thank you so much.
Hi John!
I don’t want to tell you, how to live in future. But maybe it’s time to take a break and focusing on your family and interesting work, that will bring a good income . And this is an opportunity to improve living conditions, to travel more and explore the world.
It has been exactly two years since my wife and I don’t go to congregation,after 20 years of active life inside. We are happy be free and is a time for new knowledge, history,science and traveling around the world…
I visit the sites of former JW members less and less. I no longer interesting to follow the fads of the Watchtower. Probably they will do lot of foolish things…Let them do, what they want. Maybe you need to calm down and start living for yourself and your family…
Good Luck!!!
I have followed your articles for almost two years and have gained so much comfort and strength from them. As someone who can relate to the hurt you are feeling, stay strong. I have not always agreed 100% with your writings but would so much miss not reading Cedars.
Best Wishes to you and your family.
So very sorry to hear this Lloyd. Those people show themselves up by their spitefulness and vindictiveness. You have been so helpful to me and so many others you don’t deserve this irrational hate campaign. I could never listen to kim and Mike, they just come across as fanatics. As someone already said they’ve replaced jw mindset with one that’s equally judgemental.
Dear Lloyd
I am shunned by my partner’s adult daughter. I have found it to be shocking and totally devastating because I cannot find a solution. It is all down to you that I am still with the man who I love. Turning to you and reading almost every day your loving compassionate words which are yet full of good humor have helped me immeasurably in staying positive and strong in the face of such an unspeakably cruel movement.
I too have stood up and confronted terrible bullies. I too have paid a huge price and suffered from depression. It’s not easy for you Lloyd but you count and you are a rock and a voice for so many us who are hurting. I too am agnostic but I send you and your beautiful family heaps of blessings and love for a wonderful life ahead.
Thank you Lloyd for breathing life and hope into a world which is sometimes so hard to understand.
Anyone who takes a strong stand against something is going to get abuse. That is why most people just live and let live. But exposing JWs governing body is an important work for all ex JWs. All of us must just do what ever we are able to. But that must not be at the expanse of our health or our families help. JWs will probably be around after most of us are dead and gone, as there will always be vulnerable people who get taken in by them. All we can do is limit the damage this religion causes. We have to decide ourselves what amount we can do. But never should we be in a position where our health or our families health is suffering.
Hey Cedars, Do not let the “Goodfellas” get to you. They are all jealous of the work and attention that you do.
My guess is Tony Balchen has an ego problem and is jealous of your success and it eats him up inside that he isn’t. His only goal is to drag you down to his level. Unfortunately, until he learns to be articulate, and educated, that will never happen.
Keep up the good work, and I hope this outburst of his increases your donations!
I still say pursue cyber bullying and stalking charges against those who sent the cards. They are threats, subtle yes, but threats still.
Best of luck!
Tony Prime? Really? Bwhahahahaha! Me thinks that he must be really short and not just in the vertical sense if you catch my drift. Small man syndrome…..
I am shocked to hear that people are being so aggressive towards you and your family Cedars. It is a challenge to deal with such damaged and unbalanced people, whether in person or in the online arena. You are completely within your rights to draw boundaries of appropriate behavior and maintain them. The people that say you do not have a right to do this are clearly unable to see the correlation between their controlling behavior and that of the JW organization.
I have looked through a number of exJW sites on the internet and yours is a breath of fresh air in comparison to the majority. Your calm and reasoned arguments show the true spirit of activism, and those who exist merely to aggressively convert JWs to their own cause are clearly choosing the way of undue influence. You are not, and I respect you and your associates for this.
Although I used to be a JW I am now a member of the neopagan community and much happier there. Most of the exJWs I know are agnostic or atheist. I have seen only a small minority who try to recruit JWs or exJWs to their new ‘one truth.’ You would think they would have learned their lesson in this respect, and it sucks that they ruin the party for the rest of us ;)
I wish you and your family well, and hope that you are able to protect yourselves by continuing to maintain your strong boundaries no matter what a few crazies say. Thank you for your work, and know that there are many who fully support you in it. Peace and blessings.
Hi Cedars, the subject of this article is something that has truly bothered me when I became aware of it. I do not know what is going on behind the scenes, and I am not here to take sides with anyone. That being said, I thoroughly disagree with attacking you and your family, nobody should ever be made to feel unsafe and threatened. We purposely left the group that did that to us. I have read much since waking up, and I have come to realize just how truly destructive the cult is both mentally and emotionally. I would strongly imagine that your depression is most likely related to your involvement with Jehovah’s Witnesses, or at the very least was aggravated by it. I think that most people that leave have some level of trauma to deal with, and it can take a very long time to fully process everything. This is why professionals who are aware of the effects of being in a cult recommend therapy when you leave.
I don’t like seeing those who are awake fighting with each other, especially when those involved are individually accomplishing something. As people who have woken up, we all find ourselves in a strange new world that isn’t the paradise we were promised. We each have to adjust to it in our own way, and we won’t always agree about how to do that.
I personally enjoy your blogs and your videos, and I thank you for them. I also enjoy the other channels with whom this feud exists. I am not going to participate in in either side of the argument, and I will not accuse them of being crazy. I think that in their own right, they are bringing something important to the discussion, and they reach people that perhaps only they can reach. There is value in what they do.
We all learned so many hurtful ways of thinking and acting when we were under the influence, such as black and white thinking, and attacking those who disagree with us. It isn’t always easy for us to realize that we have these harmful practices that have been indoctrinated in us for a very long time. The further away I get, the more I realize the need to exorcise WT demons from my head.
I guess what I am trying to say is that we have all been hurt by the WT, and it is often times easy to misdirect that hurt and anger. I agree with your concluding thought that there is a legitimate place to direct those feelings and that effort.
I am sorry for your hurt, and for your family’s hurt in the whole process. The other side feels hurt too. I wish there were a way to smooth things over. Perhaps when it is not possible to agree with individuals, the best course is to disengage, and not get into situations in which attacks are exchanged. When those who are awake are fighting each other, the only people who lose is those of us who are awake, and others that we may wake up. One thing we don’t need is more reasons for divisions.
So that is my thought on the matter, for what it is worth.
Lloyd, I also am shocked and saddened by the fact that you are receiving abusive criticism from anyone, and especially ex-JW’s. I want to give you and your family a big hug from across the pond here in the U.S. You have helped me so much and also my daughter and your site is the one I go to several times throughout the day to see what other ex-JW’s are saying.
You have given us a voice and without that, I don’t know how I could have gotten through the last 12 months. I knew that the JW religion wasn’t “right” but it wasn’t until I found your web site that I realized that it wasn’t me that was crazy, but it was the religion.
I saw the Tony Prime video where he went into a Kingdom Hall during the Memorial and made a complete imbecile of himself and made all of us ex-JW’s look crazy. He didn’t help people to wake up. If anything, he did just the opposite. He made all those Witnesses in the Hall, think that all ex-JW’s are mentally diseased. He obviously was drunk out of his mind. I feel sorry for the guy. He seems like he’s on the verge of a nervous breakdown or something. I was so embarrassed by what he did and I can’t for the life of me understand how anybody could think differently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2ucwtmsz0c&feature=player_detailpage
It is good to understand a bully so they don’t let them destroy you.
I am shocked and saddened that people are behaving this way. I am an ex-JW and still a Christian but I respect your viewpoint and have learned (and laughed) reading your work. I am so glad to be free of the arrogant and judgmental mindset that I had as a practicing Witness and I am more likely now than ever to consider multiple perspectives and opinions. It surprises me that anyone could escape this cult and revert back to this sort of judgmental behavior. You seem like a sincere person and I am so sorry for all that you are suffering.
Ditto.
Most Jw’s and Ex Jw’s are absolutists…they are right and you are wrong….that mentality is ingrained in them from childhood. Also, they are so extreme in the correctness of their beliefs that once they decide to leave the organization…one extreme…the vacillate towards another extreme…no middle ground.
Lloyd, realize that once you started on this path…any progress that you made in helping people (including myself)…. would be mirrored by hate and vile from those who disagree with you (like them). Think of Dr.King and Ghandi and take pride and courage in such opposition. After all these sad people are likely just jealous ex-sheeple who are jealous of your success and intellect. It will get worse before it gets better…just tell the family to hang on….”Haters gonna hate”
You are on to something there. It wasn’t until I saw this that I figured out I was doing the circular reasoning that they had drilled into me. It was like a weight was lifted off me when I realized I didn’t have to live like that anymore.
http://www.ted.com/talks/kathryn_schulz_on_being_wrong?language=en
A year ago, when somebody would have asked me how my Easter went, I would have said “I had a nice day” and no more comments coming out of my mouth. We were always told by the Society to just thank them for such comments.
Now that I have let my mind actually think and question all the teachings of the Watchtower, I have seen so many videos where people and not necessarily ex-JW’s, have sent me to the Bible and I have learned so much about the Bible that I never realized when I was a Witness.
In the process, I began to also question the validity of the Bible and now I am totally not religious at all anymore. I now don’t feel as if I have an invisible God, overseeing everything I do in my life like I did before. I don’t know if you would call that an atheist but I just don’t “believe” anymore.
Two times in the last week I was asked how my Easter went and both times, I said “I am not religious”. The first girl didn’t say anything but the 2nd girl said to me after I told her that I wasn’t religious, and I asked her how her Easter went said “oh, I am not religious either. I don’t go to church or anything like that”.
In the United States, people are made to feel ashamed if they don’t belong to a religion but there’s now commercials being run here that even famous people are coming out and saying in the commercials they don’t believe in God and aren’t afraid to burn in hell. I think this campaign is helping people who don’t “believe” to come out and admit they aren’t “believers”.
I don’t know how many ex-JW’s don’t believe in God anymore, once they wake up, but that is what happened to me. So, if a person still believes in God, then believe in God. I don’t care. But, don’t make any of us out to be a criminal of sorts because we don’t also believe in God.
If people do even a little research on the internet, there are plenty of reasons not to believe that the Bible that “Christians” revere, leaves a lot to make a person question whether any of it is “inspired” of a creator.
If people get attacked by ex-JW’s for not believing in God and Jesus, then they are just as brain blocked as they were when they were still in the “truth”, in my humble opinion.
If the brothers in my Kingdom Hall want to disfellowship me for not believing in the Bible anymore, that is what it would have to be for. I won’t talk against the Society anymore. They can’t get me on that. I will tell them that I question the validity of the Bible now.
Can you imagine disfellowshipping me because I tell them I don’t believe in the Bible anymore? I think that would be rich. If any one of them ask me why I don’t believe in the Bible anymore, I have tons of reasons, which I don’t think they would want to hear.
Are ex-JW’s punishing Lloyd because he doesn’t believe in the Bible? If so, they are no different than the Watchtower Society. They are still brainwashed.
I’m very sorry to hear this, Cedars. You do good and painstaking work here. I hope there can be peaceful resolution.
This incident along with that 90 minute attack video have been so very destructive and confusing at the same time. My involvement in the ex-JW world has been only to be supportive and encouraging to those who have been so deeply hurt through shunning, exclusion, demands from Elders that they continue to allow an abusive spouse to cause emotional and physical pain, and other forms to control, to keep their thinking in line.
I have been in activism fighting controlling forms of religion hoping to open some eyes. I have never been a JW, although I have been deeply affected by the suicide of a close friend who was dealing with threats coming from a group of Elders. I have never made an unkind remark to any other activists and I can’t take sides, I just want to help heal and encourage everyone to keep their eyes on the victims, avoiding any actions that could harm fellow activists. There are too few of us fighting unlimited funding from the churches, the threats to members used to maintain distance between ourselves and those whose eyes are closed to the truth that is so clear and abundant. When you have two, four, or ten people you respect or who’s circumstances you understand, harming each other you can’t help but either want to back away from all, or feel you are betraying one by continuing to support another. John, you and I have been friends on FB for awhile, I “see” you daily and engage in discussions or just read and learn. I can’t see you as a bad guy, and the thought of you or your lovely wife upset or depressed by an attack makes me feel very sad. I am in this because of a sympathetic nature and a love for others. I hope we all can move on trying to support the hurting, undermine the leaders and doctrines that damage, but only show tolerance, respect, and acceptance for each other.
John, if it wasn’t for you, Ruben Ortiz, Teeny Pajamas and Rick Fearon… I would still be trapped in that demonic family destroying cult. Please don’t give up! My grandfather was from ‘the old country’…Italy. He came to America 1907…the one thing he made us believe, ‘don’t let ‘any’ make or break your day but YOU’. Anything Anyone. Once I left the cult, that has been my mantra. I thank God for you and the others. Keep up the great work!
If it wasn’t for the fact that Peter Gregerson gave Ray Franz a whole years’ salary so that Ray could take off of work for a year to write “Crisis of Conscience”, we would never have had his book and you don’t even have a fridge or a couch.
You have saved many lives through your work Lloyd and who can put a price on even one life saved?
I want to punch in the face anybody would cause harm either emotionally or physically to you and your family.
Dear Cedars,
Please so not despair. No matter who we are, where we live or what we believe, life is full of us and downs, challenges and times when things seem hopeless and pointless. You are doing a good work and are helping countless many that have the maturity to think for themselves and apply common sense. I too was raise in the “truth”. I too did not become an atheist, but discovered I was one all along. After spending many years in limbo, not knowing what to believe, it was by coming across Christopher Hitchens and watching countless videos of his debates that I began to understand the origins of religious belief and how apparent it is that it is man made. So I found a distinction between many of the things I didn’t believe about JW’s but also many things about the bible that are not exclusive to JW’s but all religions. People are so vastly different and sometime inexplicable. One person believes in “The Truth”. Another stops believing “The Truth” but becomes a born again Christian. Yet another becomes agnostic. Heres the truth about belief. DON’T TRUST IT. Not a belief we have and certainly not the belief of another. As Shakespeare said, “To thine own self be true” Everybody else can go to Hell. Stay strong my friend. We are with you and on your side.
Good day Mr. Cedars.
I have been free for about 23 years now. I am shunned by my parents, my father a very strong leader in “that” community. Many times over the last 23 years, I have felt lost or maybe I was the only one that had similar thoughts as you have.
You have been like a breath of fresh air. I thoroughly appreciate the efforts you put into your research and I am equally appreciative that you aren’t a hater. There are so many negative sites for ex-JWs. I appreciate your spin on things and hope you can continue. I too understand your depression issues. It IS tough to overcome. I have had several years of therapy and taken numerous prescriptions to overcome or manage mine. I have a lot of sympathy for this condition.
Please keep up the greatness that you are, as you are wonderfully made by our Father to encourage others. You dear sir, have awakened to your calling and carry it out magnificently.
I pray your work continues only if it still blesses you. If you come to the point where it doesn’t, then my prayer will be for continued blessings from our Father on you and your household on whatever journey you go forward with.
Thank you again for all your work and your attitude. It is greatly appreciated in my household here in Texas.
Best regards and blessings – j
Hi Cedars I think that all of us creatives are plagued with ‘the black dog’, it’s the high price that is paid for our talents. You are very talented and make a tremendous difference in the lives of many lost and hurt individuals.
I often find that what can literally bring me to my knees one week I can skip over the next once the cloud passes. Keep your head and and don’t worry about the jealousy of fools.
I think you are an amazing asset to the knowledge forums
That expose the real issues that we former witnesses go
Through. I eagerly await your views on things that are
Newsworthy in regards to doctrine, world events, conferences and so on every day. Like most of us, I too
Suffer from severe depression and developed many
Problems such as alcohol abuse, self hatred, and extreme
Isolation. I have been helped by your calm approach to
The issues at hand for several years now and would be very sad if you stopped posting… please persevere.
I am in my sixties and lived through all of the hype of
The sixties, seventies and beyond. That my friend is why
I am in fact EXHAUSTED.
I saw a little of what happened with this. The whole thing looked to me like people who have not totally healed from what was done to them inside the org. There is something to be said for planting one’s freak flag and letting it fly unapologetically. I saw a lot of “getting my point across” from both sides and too much of it matters what others think.
Inside the org my opinions didn’t matter and I had no voice. Who I was as a person was strictly prohibited because I was supposed to be a drone. I have lived with the fallout of this for decades and it wasn’t until I turned and faced it did I start to heal. I am still healing and the anger comes in waves. If I had someone to take it out on I am sure I would. I see some of what I felt come from both camps.
Stop defending yourself Cedars. You are doing nothing wrong and don’t have to answer to anyone. Your voice is being heard and you are making a difference. The activist have the right to reconcile this in their own way as well. This whole thing about what is the right way and the wrong way to go about this is very black and white. That is simply left over JW thinking and you will be better off if you move on from that.
Easy for me to say because I am not in the spotlight and taking on criticism like you are. Just what I see going on here.
Hi Cedars so sorry to read there are people out there as evil as that…..these ones who act in this way are certainly not Christians in anybody’s language……Jesus was humble and righteous and he encouraged us to be like him, not act in this evil way.
I know you are not a believer ( I am not a witness, I attended the meetings when I was a child) but you seem like such a spiritual man, really caring about what’s right and wrong, standing up for the silent majority as you put it. You have made good sense to me and in a funny sort of way have made me turn to Jesus in a much more profound way which has helped my life no end….. I was tottering between the witnesses and seeking Jesus/God on a lonely road…..I found the way and I don’t need to be part of a man made organisation…….however, they do a great job of spreading the word….when seeds are planted those seeds often grow or die…..its God who turns the heart if he sees you are searching.
I do thank you for your hard work. you don’t need to justify yourself to others!! I also hope one day you and your family (your dad etc) can all become a family united again.
All the best Linda x
Short and Simple,
I am sorry for what you and your family are going through. I do agree with and appreciate what you are doing though. It has helped me in my adjustments of becoming an ex-witness and I have been able to help others because of your activism.
Take time for your family and do what it takes to make them first. Don’t let those who attack you get to you or your family. Some things (and some people) are just best ignored.
(Sand dollar)
Always felt the exjw community could be doing so much more to create awareness of Watchtower abuses. Apparently we are finally getting a billboard about the pedophilia problem.
Why did it take so long?…..Too much infighting I guess.
Just remember the old saying: “No good deed goes unpunished.”
John (Larry)
I regularly comment here and enjoy your well thought out articles. Your website is the only one that I visit of former JWs. I am not saying all of the others are bad, rather I just do not find anything of interest. I hope you can see by all of the comments that your work and therefore the creator of the body of work, you are appreciated.
The ignorance of your critics and for some their outright stupidity I am afraid will not stop. With the highest office in our Country comes the most stringent background investigations as well as constant public scrutiny and yes even stupidity for people who often have lead outstanding lives.
I hope you will consider looking up cyber bullying laws in regards to personal attacks and seek the legal measures that you and your dear family are afforded by law. Most countries recognize the harm and damage that are inflicted and continue to ratchet up the penalties against these social tyrants.
As for me, I like your work and am grateful. If you need to take time for yourself and your family, I am certain most will understand.
Best Regards.
I generally don’t like you so much anymore after going rounds. I felt you are not a nice person after all. I went through all of that with zero knowledge however of everything you were going through before our spat. I do apologize if any of my words added to your troubles.
But rest assured, even if I dislike you after that to some extent I have a great respect for what you’ve accomplished. And anyone who would go as far as the nutters that send those cards… They are disgusting. I can’t belief people have done that.