I suffer from depression, but even at my darkest moments, when my mind has briefly flirted with notions of suicide, I’ve always thought what a bad choice that would be.
There are just so many different ways a person’s life could be configured. So whenever it feels like there is no way out, I’ve always found myself able to reason that surely there MUST be another way of living that is less soul-destroying – even if the journey to that change of circumstances might be difficult.
Many of you will remember I was attacked towards the end of last year for voicing an opinion on “aggressive activism,” which is my definition for the goading, taunting and confronting of bewildered cult victims – either at places of worship or during their public preaching work – by indignant, vengeful exJWs.
In response to simply offering my opinion on this issue (doing so without naming any names), I was accused of being a stalker, a wife beater, a cult leader, a cyber-bully, and even a potential pedophile – with my baby daughter seemingly at risk from me.
As hurtful as this torrent of abuse has been, what has been even more alarming is the ease with which the ringleaders behind these accusations have managed to recruit a group of sympathizers, and manipulated these into believing that THEY are the true victims in this whole scenario – not me.
Also troubling is the complete lack of restraint and basic human decency from this mob, many of whom claim to be Christian. For example, two particularly vocal critics of mine called Mike and Kim are so passionate about bringing Jehovah’s Witnesses to Christ that they have apparently set up their own state-registered ministry.
These same people have sat in front of a camera to deliver a 90-minute tirade featuring all of the aforementioned accusations, apparently seeing no conflict with their Holy Book’s calls to “suffer evil” and “be peaceable with all men.”
Though I expect proponents of evangelical activism (“leave Watchtower and embrace our, correct version of Christianity”) to take issue with my openness about my agnosticism/atheism, I find it troubling that the likes of Mike and Kim have been so successful in exploiting the aggressive activism controversy as a smokescreen to pursue their agenda of trying to silence my agnostic views – to the point of hoodwinking even non-religious exJWs into flocking to their anti-Cedars banner.
When the backlash reached its zenith just before Christmas, I seriously considered breaking some of the tension with a light-hearted video in which I would sing a parody song aimed at debunking Mike and Kim’s accusation that I am obsessed with their daughter, who previously helped me with my work. I envisioned a video in which I would be seated at a piano, Gary Barlow-style, singing plaintively to a framed picture of her, delivering a mock confession of my love for her, and mourning that it was unrequited.
But thankfully I snapped out of doing this video when I remembered that the person in question has been known to suffer from depression. However funny the video might have been to some, and however successful it might have been at rubbishing the claims that I was fixated with this girl, how would I have felt if she had committed suicide soon after it was circulated? I would have felt utterly devastated, and responsible for her loss.
All about the money?
Since all of that, there has been a fresh wave of attacks. Apparently my already-long list of fabricated/embellished crimes has been added to, with claims that I am profiteering from my work as an activist (to the tune of over $10,000 per year), that I live in a “hole” of a country, that I make my wife work while I do nothing, that I “disfellowship” people who disagree with me, that I am fat and ugly (well, maybe that’s true), and that I have been too ready to defend myself in conversations with trolls on Facebook and YouTube.
I’ve mostly been able to shrug off all this mud-slinging, knowing full well I have nothing to hide.
As far as my finances are concerned – yes I have Google ads on my website, but so does JWfacts. Yes I have a PayPal button for donations, but so does JWstruggle (and a LOT of other exJW websites, none of which seem to be under siege for the heresy of accepting money). And I also plead guilty to having a Patreon button at the end of my videos for people who want to donate to my work – but nobody is forced to click through and pledge donations.
My articles and videos are available to people entirely free of charge, and will remain so.
Any proceeds from Google Ad impressions* ($125 per month), YouTube ad impressions ($110 per month), or regular donations ($63 per month) get ploughed straight into my business to help pay for new equipment and justify the considerable time spent away from my regular job (translating and proofreading) while doing research and producing content. (For example, my 2-hour rebuttal video to the Gerrit Losch JW broadcasting episode took three days to put together, which would be hard to justify if it wasn’t part of my job.)
There have been occasions where large, one-off donations have been made either to help our family (most notably when we had Jessica’s baby shower) or to assist with my activism (i.e. when two large donations were received to help fund our trip to London for the conference on undue influence) – but this money has never come with strings attached, i.e. that I must endorse Christianity and stay silent about my unbelief. My supporters have simply been willing to help out as the need arises, and they have been placed under no compulsion to do so.
Unlike many of the people who are styling me as a rich cult leader sponging off gormless followers and abuse victims, I don’t yet have a fridge, a TV, a sofa or a kitchen. I REALLY AM doing my activism because I want to free people both now and in the future from cult indoctrination. My work is offered freely, and I don’t see why I should be made to turn down acts of kindness when these are extended simply to appease my critics.
The only work I ever intend to charge for will be my book, which I will aim to price as reasonably as possible once it is finally finished and published. No doubt once it goes on sale I will receive a fresh wave of abuse from people who will quickly forget how much they paid to read the words of Steven Hassan, Jim Penton, Carl Olof Jonsson or Ray Franz and paint me as a greedy profiteer all over again – but it is pointless trying to keep such people happy.
Is blocking someone on Facebook “shunning?”
I have also come under fire for my practice of blocking people on Facebook who are either critical of my activism, or abusive towards me, or supportive/defensive of those who are abusive towards me. I fail to understand why I am obliged to use Facebook, not as a tool for keeping in touch with my friends and readers, but as an implement of ritual self-flagellation that I must use to entertain the scathing rants and banal sniping of my mostly-anonymous, mostly-evangelical critics on a daily basis.
Telling me I’m not allowed to block or unfriend people on Facebook who are nasty is like telling me I MUST stand and listen to random people shout at and berate me if I encounter them while out shopping. I am perfectly within my rights to walk away from any such situation and get on with whatever it was I was doing. I don’t HAVE to punish myself with nonsense just for the sake of it.
It’s worth remembering that nobody is forcing anyone to watch my videos OR read my blog articles. If you hate me and my work so much I have excellent news – you don’t HAVE to follow me or read/watch my work. You can do activism the way YOU want to do it, or find an activist whose videos and blogs are more to your liking. Or you can avoid taking in “apostate” material altogether, if that’s your problem.
And no, I am not in the business of “shunning” people who disagree with me. I am merely choosy about who my friends are. I have plenty of people on my Facebook friends list with whom I don’t see eye to eye on a range of issues, but I find they are able to put their points across without evangelizing or resorting to ad hominem insults and accusations, so I am only too happy to keep them in my circle and benefit from their perspective.
And frankly, I find the use of the word “shunning” in describing any situation other than estrangement from family or close friends to be an insult – especially by people who should know the difference between being prevented from commenting on a blog or Facebook page and having all contact with family terminated forever.
Taking its toll
Usually I am able to shrug off all the above silliness, content with the fact that I am doing the best I can for all the right motives, and making some modest headway in waking people up (if my email inbox is to be believed).
But today I was out mingling with some of my friends who live in my village, and something fairly innocuous happened that sent me spiraling into the realization that the level of abuse being directed at me from self-righteous keyboard warriors on the other side of the Atlantic really is starting to take its toll.
I didn’t feel suicidal, but I definitely felt a huge wave of sadness and futility.
I went home and talked to my wife Dijana about what I was feeling, and she told me she was feeling pressured by the situation too. Whenever I am talked about, or our family is talked about, by obsessive lunatics who are more fixated with me than they are with Watchtower, Dijana finds herself worrying and fretting over what effect this will have on me, and whether we are safe from these clearly disturbed individuals (bearing in mind we have already received two menacing cards through the post from an individual in America calling himself/herself “John Smith”).
What upsets Dijana most is that, amidst all this hatred and vitriol, she feels forced to put on a brave face for our daughter Jessica, because she is worried that if she lets her sadness show when spending time with our baby this might subconsciously rub off on her, or make her feel that she is somehow not living up to expectations.
Dijana also can’t help but feel enraged when she sees her picture (taken from our translation company website), being shared around on Facebook “hate Cedars” groups, the members of whom then speculate that she is the victim of an oppressive, abusive husband. If she were herself an outspoken activist, or vocal about anything beyond whale conservation, she could perhaps understand all the scrutiny – but she is content to let me get on with my activism and focus on being a mother, and thus finds it all very intrusive.
This conversation with Dijana, and the realization that the fanatical obsessions of a few troubled individuals in America are having a tangible impact on our family has led to my writing this article by way of pleading with any exJWs out there who might have been swayed by my attackers to apply some logic and reason, and show some compassion.
I am not a cult leader. I am not a leader of any sort, and would repudiate any attempts to make me one. I am an ordinary man with a wife and daughter who just happens to be an activist against a cruel cult. And yes, I happen to not be religious.
Of course I have made mistakes, and perhaps gone too far at times when confronting trolls and critics on Facebook and YouTube – but nothing I have said or done has even remotely warranted the tsunami of hatred and vitriol that has been directed against me and my family over the past few months.
A plea for decency
All I ask of my fellow ex cult-members is some basic human decency – the same instincts of solidarity and compassion that made me pull back from making a stupid piano video that I would have almost certainly regretted.
I am not a suicide threat, and my depression is manageable, but I do have a wife and baby daughter – and when you attack me with completely unfounded and specious allegations, you attack them as well. Dijana in particular really does feel the reverberations, to the point of wanting to write to some of the ringleaders herself.
It has long been a notable irony that the majority of opposition to my activism work comes, not from Watchtower or Jehovah’s Witnesses, but from my fellow ex-JWs. I’ve noticed from conversations with activists against other cults that this is not an isolated phenomenon. People who have exited other high-control groups have also been known to turn on each other, and make each other scapegoats for their issues and frustrations.
If it were only me who was taking the heat for having an opinion, and not being afraid to voice it, I think I could handle much of what I’ve been subjected to – content to simply block persistent trolls and fanatics who are hell-bent on character-assassinating me.
But when it starts to affect my family, I do feel a need to draw the line. This abuse has to stop. If you happen to be involved in any way, I implore you to please find something or someone else who is worthy of your frustrations. There are seven men in Brooklyn who export truckloads of pain and misery on a daily basis that I can strongly recommend.
***UPDATE October 2015***
Not long after this article was published, JWsurvey received a “cease and desist” letter from lawyers representing Mike and Kim Brooks. The letter, dated April 20th 2015, insisted that this page be removed and that “no further mention of the Brooks family be made by [Lloyd Evans] on his websites, Facebook, Podcast, YouTube, Vimeo, Patreon, or others.”
After discussions between myself and the webmaster, John Hoyle, it was decided that this article would not be taken down, because I had every right to respond to misinformation that was being circulated about me online by this couple in particular.
However, after discussions with someone acting as something of a go-between with Mike and Kim, it was decided as a gesture of goodwill to remove a link showing the registration of their “Mike Kim Ministries Inc” organization, on the understanding that if I would at least refrain from further talking about the couple online they would reciprocate. I readily agreed to this since I have no interest in talking about Mike and Kim Brooks or their exploits on this website or on my YouTube channel. I was also increasingly concerned that posting a link to an internet page where the couple had made their address public might undermine their safety.
A few months passed with very little being said by my community of “haters.” Eventually the hour-long rant by the Brooks family was removed from Mike, Kim and Shyla’s channels – I assume out of embarrassment over the blow-back from their thoroughly-discredited accusations that I am a stalker, wife-beater, and potential sex offender. I allowed myself to think my haters had found more productive uses of their time than to follow my every move, question my motives and fantasize about my private life.
Then, when I announced my plans for a special “JWsurvey Day” video featuring a montage of different exJWs, one of my most fixated online critics Joel Martz, AKA “The UnWitness,” uploaded a video criticizing me for planning a video in which exJWs would be shown as happy, because apparently this lived up to the stereotype of apostates as being selfish.
Around this time, there was an unfortunate incident on Facebook one evening when I was tired and irritated. A post was put up in the mostly-secular JW Podcast group, for which I am an admin, that was nothing more than a scripture with no comment or explanation. Assuming it to be an attempt at trolling by a Watchtower-apologist, I posted a meme with text that read: “Who left the gate open at the cunt farm?” I then checked to find out who the poster was, and discovered it wasn’t a JW but someone on my friends list who happened to be a Christian. I immediately deleted the post, made another post to the effect that it would be appreciated if people could refrain from putting up scripture-only posts, and thought nothing more of it.
A few days passed and I was directed to a video by Alun Williams – an evangelical Christian fanatic who had already made a number of videos ranting against me because I am an unbeliever. Alun had apparently been contacted by a lady, whose name he didn’t immediately divulge, who was upset at how I had treated her on Facebook. Though I was perplexed as to why this person had approached Alun with her grievances and not me, I contacted her on Facebook as soon as I learned of her identity and gave her a personal apology. I also issued the following public apology on the group where Sharon had been aggrieved…
Despite the apology, Alun Williams continued to issue a stream of videos vilifying me for my mistake including such titles as “John Cedars – You don’t feed us,” “John Cedars – Parasites,” and “John Cedars – Narcissist.”
Then today, on October 10 2015, I woke up to discover a fresh YouTube diatribe by Mike Brooks, who (together with his wife) I understood had moved on from his agenda against me. Having learned about the Facebook issue, Mike had taken it upon himself to be the judge and jury for something I had already issued a public apology for. The fact that it took me nine days to apologize to Sharon (simply because I didn’t keep a record of who it was I needed to apologize to, and had to wait for the name to appear in Alun Williams’ video) was shown as further evidence of my depravity. And once again, my wife Dijana was declared to be in an abusive relationship – warned that both her and my baby daughter Jessica are at risk from me.
Even more astonishingly, I was threatened with physical violence if I ever find myself in New Mexico, with Mike saying he would risk going to jail to give me my comeuppance. Apparently threats of physical violence as retribution for something someone has already apologized for can be considered perfectly Christlike behavior.
I am now getting used to the fact that the slightest slip-up, real or imagined, will be gleefully leapt upon by Mike and Kim, Alun Williams and others from the further reaches of the evangelical wing of the exJW community. What I struggle to fathom is how they can justify lambasting someone for a fairly innocuous error of judgment, who has since apologized publicly, while calling themselves Christian. Didn’t Jesus supposedly tell Peter to forgive his brother up to seventy-seven times? Why can I not be forgiven for calling someone a cunt for a few seconds before the post is deleted, and later apologizing publicly?
For the record, Mike and Kim and I were originally on quite friendly terms, but our relationship quickly deteriorated after a series of Facebook exchanges in which it became obvious that any disagreement between us, however friendly, was interpreted by them as an “attack” and “bullying.” They have since pursued activism against me with almost as much energy as they pursue it against Watchtower, seemingly for no other reason than jealousy and the fact that I do not share their religious beliefs.
I understand this update will make for uncomfortable reading, especially for those who like to think of the Ex-JW community as a tranquil haven where former Witnesses unite against a common foe. But the truth is, the “community” is nothing more than a loose-knit group of vastly different people who happen to have shared the same devastating experience.
Some try to use that experience to help others. Some channel the anger and frustration against their fellow cult-survivors. Still others go to the extreme of fixating against those who are perceived to have a bigger audience than they do, and will stop at nothing to drag them down – including inventing accusations. Such behavior highlights just how corrosive Watchtower’s undue influence can be, and makes me more determined than ever to pursue my activism, and answer my critics in the best way possible – by pursuing effective, non-aggressive, non-evangelical activism against Watchtower.
*An ad impression is when an ad is shown on a page or video. Simply by having the ad appear on the blog page you are reading, or the YouTube video you are watching, I receive a small amount of money from Google, who in turn receive money from the company whose ad was shown.
I am so sorry to hear that this is taking place. I hope you and your wife can take some comfort in knowing that there are many of us out here who deeply appreciate your work.
You always do a great job Lloyd. I am sorry to hear that you are being attacked with such hostility… Lots of people from Murica are idiots. Don’t let them get you down. This always picks me up.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nxcJW6bs5os
And ditto. Lots who appreciate your work. Thank you!
So very sorry that you’ve found yourself in the position of having to plead for courtesy and understanding, or even just simple human kindness and decent manners. No one should have to put up with such abuse as you and your family have faced. While our individual beliefs don’t always dovetail (what a boring world THAT would be) I think the work you’ve undertaken over the past couple of years has been extremely valuable — necessary! — and it would be a horrible shame if it were derailed by these idiots. Your material is accessible and interesting, and I’ve no doubt that many have been helped and that many, many more will be in the future. Please keep the faith
It is sad indeed that this is happening to you and Dijana. I trust you realise there are very many people out here who support you in your sterling efforts to increase awareness about the true nature of the WTS.
When people leave authoritarian movements like the WT they will very often retain some or even much of what they have “learned” in that movement, and in many cases it can take a very long time for people to become completely free of all the harmful attitudes and misguided beliefs. So I tend to regard this deplorable situation which you are facing as an example of people giving free rein to the sort of nastiness which is engendered by involvement with the WT.
I hope you will be able to weather this storm and ultimately draw strength from it. Feel free to PM/Skype any time for a chat or a rant. Strength to you, Lloyd.
Hey Cedars, I feel horrible that you’ve been treated poorly.
Like you, I’ve went into an Agnostic/Atheisitc belief system (or more accurately, a lack of a belief system!). I always knew that IF I ever left the JW’s then I wouldn’t/couldn’t believe in another crazy religion. It would be like jumping out of Am Way and into Arbonne, Herbalife, Melaluka or someother multilevel marketing scam. No way, I learned my lesson.
I always thought that being an Atheisit was like being Switzerland; everyone would respect your neutrality and your obvious reasoning and intellectual ability. Quite the opposite!!! One female comedian from the U.S. put in succently. She said that when she told her friends and family that she was an atheist it was like telling them that she just had anal sex with Satan!
Kim and Mike seem like complete morons to me! You should be happy that they don’t like you! Something would be wrong if they did!!! (Kim seems like she wears the pants in the union and she reminds me of my mother-in-law; a slack jawed, cross eyed, inbred, drooling country hick. But God loves ’em! Good thing too, because nobody else does!).
When people leave the Jehovah’s Witness organization the official party line is that they couldn’t take the discipline, they wanted more authority or prominence or that they had they own desires to lead people. Although that is not nearly true of everyone IT IS TRUE OF SOME. You just found those people.
Forget them! You are doing a great job and I, along with many of my friends, are totally in awe of your intelligence and how you can put our thoughts and feelings into words.
Ive never been happy to watch Mike and Kim and their method of anti-watchtower activism. Ive found them mocking rather than constructively exposing the organization. Could you imagine being in the same congregation with them when we were still members of the cult? Keep up the good work Lloyd.
Reading this made me so sad. I had be aware of some of the instances of “anti-Cedars” happening on FB, but I hadn’t know how bad it had become.
Warm thoughts to you and your family John. Please rest assured that your continued activism is not only needed but appreciated by those with earnest intentions.
This is a sad situation when someone criticizes someone whose work is done solely for the good of others.
You were criticized when you were anonymous for keeping your true identity private, you came out and have opened yourself up to peril. There is no pleasing some people.
Keep family and home safe.
I agree with Ellen& D-guy many of us x s really appreciate your generic disapproval of organized religion& especially the harmful cult type,and really understand that making steps to get out can be sticky,worse than gum on your shoes….so many thanx
John sorry to hear about your increasingly difficult situation. The number one priority should be your sanity and in turn your family who doesn’t need this type of stress to begin with. You are welcome anytime to talk with me about what’s happening and maybe some ideas to deal with it or eliminate it. I’m a seasoned 56 yr old person who has been out of this life damaging cult for some time. I truly understand the dynamics and mentality of these ex JW extremists. Hang in there.
and know how appreciated is your time and effort in exposing the WTS for what they really are.
Not sure why my post split. I don’t think it like the emoticon I put after the word “faith”. :-)
I am saddened by the situation You’re going through. I hope things calm down and people realize that the fight should be against the Watchtower, not against each other.
To spend energy on attacking you (in a very unfair and unreasonable way), they do not use this same energy against a high-control organization that have hurt so many people.
Keep up the good work and I hope that one day You come to know Portugal with your family and We can spend a good time together!
My heart goes out to you and your family and I hope the people saying hateful things to you and about you stop!
I have learned a lot from you about the inside of the witness hierarchy that have helped me see these men and the witness organization for what it really is (a self fulfilling cult mentally harming people). I so appreciate all you have done to help me and others wake up to the truth about this harmful organization? I believe in being a kind and companionate person toward all people and in encouraging the good in people. You are a kind and compassionate person I can tell by the way you write and speak. Those who continue to bash others to build themselves up are only displaying their true nature and immaturity. Hopefully they will realize one day that saying hurtful hateful things accomplishes nothing but their own downfall. Please know that I am thankful for all the work you do to research and publish the helpful information you produce. It has given me insights that I would not have known otherwise and this information has helped me heal and helped me explain to others why I cannot return to being a JW. Thank you with all my heart
Sincerely, Yvette
Absolutely disgusting to hear. These people ought to hang their heads in shame. I have tried to reason with some of them, but they are clearly either hellbent on being disgusting, argumentative individuals, or are insane… or both. I love the work you do and will always support you and your family. Just know that the haters, are just a drop in a bucket compared to those who are benefitting and appreciate your work.
Lloyd, thank you for your transparency. It’s so disturbing to read about all of the abuse you are getting. As an Evangelical Christian, I just want to say how much I enjoy your posts and appreciate what you do. I’m so sorry to read about impact all this negative vitriolic feedback you receive has had on you and your family. Keep up the great work, and know that you are appreciated. It’s a painful thing to have to deal with, so hang in there! Someone once said, “To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, and be nothing.”
Shocked. I am a big fan of Cedars work and in a few instances I’ve voiced my disapproval of what Cedars has done but only because I don’t think it helps his overall goal.
That aside he does sterling work 99% of the time…my shock in this article is I never knew the half of what is and has been going on.
I’m quite frankly disgusted of what seems to be occurring…I can disagree…even strongly with Cedars but nothing ever justifies what Cedars is going through as mentioned in this blog post.
He simply does not deserve or merit any personal attack whatsoever.
Lloyd, we all appreciate what you do and if you can continue then great but please always put your wife and child first, if this gets too much back out and shut down, your family is more important and there always will be sites like yours to help the exJW community.
I am so sorry to hear this. I, for one, truly appreciate the work you are doing, and I hope that those who feel the need to attack you step back for a moment and consider what they are doing.
You have provided much good information about the JW religion that informs and aids others to break free from this oppressive group.
How much of this hatred is down to envy at your success, not only in getting a following of regular viewers, readers and listeners, but also real evidence of enlightening individuals and rescuing them from the JW cult?
How much of the hatred springs from your agnosticism, and how much from your disapproval of certain types of activism?
How much springs from the haters’ inability to engage constructively with those who have different views on methods and tactics, albeit sharing, apparently, the same ultimate objective?
My JW childhood had the one benefit of enabling me to understand that religion can be cruel and horrible, and hence that ISIS and co., can be genuine religious types, whatever Boris Johnson and Barack Obama may say to the contrary.
I am, though, as baffled as I am appalled by the behaviour of the anti Cedars gang.
Lloyd
Stop before it gets too much. I will absolutly miss your blogs etc if you stop, but you and yours MUST come first.
This article did more than sadden me, it has alarmed me. To think that you are worrying or your wife is worrying is just not fair. Please take care of you. ((((((((Hugs)))))))))
Hi Lloyd,
Checking my emails this morning and am completely taken by surprise that you are being treated in this way, and of course your family are impacted, that’s very sad.
I think any `sound minded’ person who has `Woken Up’ will clearly see your sincerity, and honesty, and I feel you really must recognise these nasty souls for what they are, and not let them succeed in bringing you down.
As for the rest of us former members we have immense gratitude and appreciation for all of your efforts, and the great sacrifices you undoubtedly are making for such a great cause.
With respect I have been to most of the Ex Jdub sites a number of times and have wholeheartedly chosen yours as the place I wish to be at, and for many good reasons.
Hang in there Brother. Kind regards, John
Lovely positive comments from everyone!
Lloyd (John) . ALL of The COMMENTS posted so far have Been BEAUTIFUL & SO ENCOURAGING Not just to Lloyd & His Family But to ALL of us who Log on to this Website. There are SO MANY KIND CARING EX-JWs out there Not Full of Hate & Anger.
So Please Keep the Positive Comments coming.
Why shouldn’t you ,Lloyd make some Contributions? out of your hard work & Long Long hours & Emotional Energy that goes into producing this website& You Tube Channel.
When I think of the BILLIONS the Governing Body have got from Real Estate,Wills,Stocks&Shares,etc from JWs who have Died it is Tantamount to BLOOD MONEY??? When Thousands have Died because of not having Vaccinations,Organ Transplants,Blood Transfusions in Emergencies. Let Alone the MISERY of BREAKING up FAMILIES through SHUNNING because of Disagreements over Doctrine or the way the GB has handled Paedophiles? If you pardon the Expression!
As I said before You, Lloyd , Have SAVED MANY LIVES!!! Keep up the good work : THERE ARE MORE WITH US THAN AGAINST US as good old Elijah said !!
@Lloyd(John) . What I have noticed Because of your Honesty & Humility in showing us your Feelings & Vulnerability HAS CAUSED People who have NEVER COMMENTED BEFORE to Feel IMPELLED to Comment on this Site to SHOW that YOU Lloyd have CHANGED JWs & Ex-JWs Lives for the better& Keep on giving them the Inner Strength to Fight their INNER FEARS & INSECURITIES Created by 7 American MEN in BROOKLYN who CHOP & CHANGE their Interpretations of Scripture so Frequently it is Frightening!!
Any one who reads this site & hasn’t commented , PLEASE Have the INNER DETERMINATION to Support Lloyd& His Wife& Child!! They as a FAMILY have SACRIFICED SO MUCH in terms of Emotional Time,Energy,Money etc. It must be draining!
@Zeebo . With due respect the XJW front is NOT CRUMBLING. Just look at the BEAUTIFUL & HEARTWARMING Comments here in Support of Lloyd(John) We are all STRONGER & FIGHTING the Fine Fight of a Spiritual Warfare to SAVE Hearts & Minds from 7 Controlling AMERICAN MEN.
& the Candace Conti Court Case is a VICTORY because it is has SHOWN how CORRUPT the Inner Workings of a Judicial Committee of 3 Elders& the Abuser facing the Poor Victim who was a Child . The WORLD can SEE HOW DISGUSTING this is !!!
The Victory is For all XJW who have shown how this Filthy the JW Organisation is :
Please read January 15th 2015 Watchtower page 24 paragraph 4:
‘MANY Christians have watched lurid material on the Internet,have been to sexually explicit movies,Stage shows,some have visited strip shows,massage parlours& Nightclubs as well as viewing Pornography. ‘
This is in a STUDY WATCHTOWER which we studied on Sunday a few weeks ago!!
An OPEN ADMISSION that this is RIFE in the JW Organisation Because the words’MANY CHRISTIANS’ meaning JWS !!
Our Children should not be allowed to be ALONE in the Ministry unless a Criminal Record Check is made on each individual!!
@Pickled Brain, that article is coming right out and saying that viewing pornography, reading erotic literature, or watching lurid material on the internet and watching sexually explicit movies, naked stage shows, and watching sexually explicit television shows, visiting nightclubs and strip shows and getting sensual messages are NOT WRONG because this is how that paragraph starts:
“How is it possible for a Christian to be drawn into immoral conduct: The disastrous path of immorality often starts with the eyes. Jesus explained: “Everyone who keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” (Matt. 5:27, 28: 2 Pet. 2:14) Many Christians who have fallen into wrongdoing have weakened their moral defenses by viewing pornography, reading erotic literature” …and so on.
Those paragraphs under ” Guard Your Heart” is telling the reader that the only wrong doing happens when the person has committed adultery with another person so doing porn and going to strip clubs etc. and all the rest only LEADS TO WRONGDOING. A paragraph like that is telling a man that as long as he doesn’t commit adultery, those other things are not wrong doing.
Tell that to a wife who catches her JW husband going to strip clubs and watching porn on their computer that he hasn’t done any wrongdoing and see if it washes with her.
See if she then thinks this is a “clean” organization when the only “wrongdoing” is only when he actually commits adultery. It’s then that a woman will find out that it’s an “old boys club”. What I am saying is that if a JW claims to be a JW, then he should not be doing those things because that is the impression that the Watchtower wants the world to think. The Watchtower wants the world to think that JW men don’t go to strip clubs and X rated movies and watch porn on television on their computers. But in reality, the JW men are being given a green light for all those things to do but the women are being blindly deceived into thinking that the guy they are marrying wouldn’t do those things but when she catches her husband doing that stuff, nothing happens to him. Her feelings about the matter are dismissed as “not forgiving”. It makes me wonder just how many elders are doing it and thinking to themselves that as long as they don’t actually commit adultery, it’s between them and Jehovah. Who cares about what the wife thinks? After all, it’s not the wife they are sinning against, is it? It’s Jehovah they are sinning against. But according to that paragraph, they aren’t even sinning against Jehovah when they do that stuff.
When a person abuses a child, you can better believe that that person was first addicted to porn. The porn starts small and it takes more and more perverted porn to get the “high” that they first had so the porn gets more and more perverted. That is how child abusers get started down that road.
@Anonymous. Your Dead Right about it being a BOYS CLUB !! In Judicial Committees my Father-in- Law who over 40 years of sitting on MANY said ‘If a Brother who Committed Adultery said his wife had NOT Been Providing the Marriage Due(Sexual Intercourse) Then the Elders would take that into consideration & Be More Lenient with him !! In other words it was the wife’s fault why he comitted Adultery??? So my Question is what WEIRD Reasoning do these Elders come up with when a Brother commits Pedophilia ??
THIS ORGANISATION is RUN BY MEN for MEN !!
anonymous, I think you’re off the mark here. The WT article nowhere says pornography is not wrongdoing. This doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt the partner (it does), but that’s not WT’s agenda.
I think we agree though, but you highlight it a little differently. The WT’s agenda is loyalty to the organization. This article’s tool towards that end is “Jehovah’s view of marriage”. So the WT is arguing that pornography is disrespecting the marriage bond (which was supposedly instituted by Jehovah). That’s why it follows up in paragraph 8 how to keep learning about Jehovah (through the WT of course! haha).
So the perversion here is not “JW men are given the green light”, or that women are ignored per se, but that pornography hurts the relationship with God by ignoring the WT counsel (basically). It’s all Jehovah wants-this-or-that.
Your “…when she catches him… nothing happens to him” is slightly misleading; I would say that seeing how the wife is hurt by the man’s actions should lead to sorrow and regret and his part. If it doesn’t… well then it’s a problem with this man, not necessarily the WT. Because the counter-side is… would you want the reason for your husband to love you more (or at least act like it because of WT fear) because he was restricted or even publicly humiliated in some way?
Gareth, If I had a problem with pornography and I was reading that paragraph, I would see that the real sin wasn’t the porn, but adultery. That is the message I would get if I had a problem with going to strip clubs or going on the internet looking for porn. No where in those paragraphs, does it imply or say that any of those things was it sinning against Jehovah but that it LEADS to sinning. I remember arguing with a district overseer a couple of years ago because those are the very words he used in his talk at the circuit assembly. I keep looking for it in the literature and that is the way the Society always words it.
I don’t know how any more plain it can be.
What i meant was it’s sad to see the in fighting and factions within this small group. Once leaving the WT was an awakening and there was a seemingly united effort to welcome people to the ‘real world’.
I’m just saying the WT has forever said things like ‘where will you go?’ and ‘who else loves like us’.. we all know its a load of crud but such vicious in-fighting makes us look pretty small.
If you watch the Tonyprime video attaching John, you will see many many equally sympathetic and supportive messages. So it isn’t really proof of anything.
I think (and i believe this article says as much) that we should all put the personality to one side and get on with WT exposure.
As for funding, the argument against Lloyd is just crazy.. Like him or not, these sites take a lot of admin and people are free to not visit if they wish.. Until a monthly subscription is requested, there is absolutely nothing wrong. Its just madness to begrudge a few googleads and an optional way to donate..
“Infighting” implies acts of mutual aggression. I have been on the receiving end of a number of videos from various YouTubers all aimed at character-assassinating me through a range of wild and spurious accusations ranging from “he’s a stalker” to “he’s a wife-beater and potential pedophile.” In contrast, videos I have made singling out other activists for criticism are conspicuous by their absence.
True, I have written this article as an attempt to draw a line under these attacks and explain the motives behind some of them as I see it, but I am perfectly entitled to defend myself when my family’s happiness is on the line. I wish people would stop giving credence to the claims that I am some kind of “cyber bully” by implying this is a two-way conflict. Yes, I have written this article in the hopes of answering my accusers, and yes I have stooped to getting embroiled in arguments on YouTube and Facebook that I probably shouldn’t have – but apart from those defensive actions this “infighting” is entirely one-way.
I guess what i mean by community is that this issue has ploarised everyone and they have got stupid. I happen to think the fact you are at the eye of the storm is incidental.. could have been anyone else who is on public display. But the reactions and frankly horrible things being said put shame one us all. I say comments (albeit joking) about physical violence. Not funny. Anyway I hope you can sandbox this and not let it effect you too much. There will always be trolls
It is very sad that ones have to resort to these childish antics, it just makes the work of all activists look bad, the apologists would love all this, don’t they realise that all they are doing is not just hurting you and your family but doing damage to the work that you all put so much time into.
Hope that it stops, we have had enough abuse from the WT/GB without ones turning on one another, it is silly childish hurtful games like one sees in a second class school room with bullies, pathetic.
My thanks to both you and your wife for all the time and effort you put into bringing such excellent articles and videos, you are appreciated and those that do care are many, those that don’t and are full of this tribal abuse are not worth anymore of your time.
I will probably be slammed for saying so, but you are experiencing similar to what Ray Franz and company went through for not taking the ‘pc’ position that Bill Bowen (not so silent lambs) and company demanded back in the early 2,000’s.
While Bill Bowen and company were performing excellent work, they became very intolerant of anyone who did not give them full unwavering support. I do not give such to any man or woman. The old H2O forum was lit up with nasty comments between factions all centered around what you are writing about.
The internet is a wonderful tool, but it is also the cause of so much unwarranted pain and depression. Skulking around the shadows, hiding behind their cyber screens these hateful bastards do not care how much pain they can inflict. Sad to say your writings above are exactly why they do what they do. They got to you.
End it now. Never give them another voice or even recognize their puny efforts at putting you or anyone else down. Stop them by ignoring them. They are not even worth another mention.
Keep up the good work, they will eventually move on to someone else. Sad and pathetic as they are.
Dear Lloyd, I am so very sorry to hear about the stress you have been put under. Please know that with out your rational, insightful, and well researched articles I would not have awakened. You mean the world to me, and I expect many others. Just ignore the haters. I know of the Kim and Mike stuff. I quit reading their rants
long ago because it was simply dumb. You are a man of intelligence. Thinking people appreciate you very much.
I’d rather spend one day with a person who feels than a 1000 with one that thinks. What a gift.x
Oh wow. I’m so sorry you have had to make a plea to these ones who are truly living up to the title “mentally diseased” by the wtbts. Irony much? but I am glad you have, for you felt the necessity of being heard (so important) and for the protection of your precious family. I’m so grateful for courageous, reasonable, authentic people as you, who become that voice for us who won’t stick our necks out there. Thank you so much for your work as so many of us now have a place to go where we feel at home, VALIDATED, and supported. Btw, I consider myself Christian (though I believe all beliefs – Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity – are to be a guide to peace in this world and totally not a necessity) and have yet to feel any discouragement or opposition of my beliefs from you. Only live and let live and stating of facts and a genuine concern for those who have been abused by this religion and a gentle guidance to freedom by ones who are still oppressed. Please know you are SO appreciated and please carry on. I’m sure we out number the others.
Oh, and I’m American. ;-)
Lloyd, with regard to aggressive activism. I believe you are taking the right approach, and most readers/followers/subscribers will fully support that mature and in fact intelligent outlook.
If we wish to help current JW’s, any other approach won’t work.
Always look at the bigger picture, small minded self gratuitous, aggressive commentary/actions is exactly that, and belies a lack of sincerity in desire to help anyone but the person behind the commentary.
That is why you were driven to state your clear position, because you have no other choice if you are true to yourself, which you are.
Cheers Mate, John from `down under’
Feel free to email me any time.
Having been wherever, and I have, I have deep concern for all of those who have too. ( this ain’t no assembly) for those persons who you may leave behind, you maybe right;-) “hide in you shell”, Supertramp.x
Ahh, the logical song. . .written by the governing body, Supertramp.x
Lloyd, I am so sorry that you are caught in this situation.
Almost two years ago, I just sort of disappeared off Facebook. I don’t even miss it anymore. I have come to believe that there is a very real danger of overload on social media.
I know this sounds crazy now, but I hope in time you can come to understand it. “What other people say about me is none of my business!”
Please don’t feel like you have to justify yourself and what you do to ANYBODY. Those who have come to know you and love you and appreciate the work you have taken on, know enough about you to want to be right here on your site, supporting you. Those who don’t really know you will never believe what you or any of us have to say anyway. Protesting your innocence only makes them dig in deeper.
Our common denominator, the Watchtower, spews poison that affects each of us differently. In time, some heal and sadly, some never heal. Those of us who still believe in God can pray for them; and, for you to have the strength to continue with your valuable work.
Much Christian love to you, your wife and precious daughter from your sister
I would just like to say thank you Cedars……for the work you do and for providing me the information and facts for the past 2.5 yrs. My eyes have truly been opened and I was able to help another family member through your site. It surprises me that you have not received nothing but gratitude from others, perhaps the haters should go back to the “truth” (would they get more love, compassion and facts there?)
You are a gifted writer. The ex-JW community is fortunate to have you. Thank you for your tireless, passionate efforts.
There are many lovely people in our community anxious to heal, move on and see loved ones wake up and join us. Unfortunately, there is a lot of mental illness among ex- JWs and misplaced anger as well. The persecution of you and your family is so wrong. You may well tire of all of this and move on but your work HAS made a difference. I really look forward to reading your book.
I am so sorry to hear that this is taking place. Be assured there are many of us who follow you and are regularly encouraged by your posts, though we may not post a comment each and every time. I hope you, your wife and daughter are managing during this onslaught. I don’t know why ex-jw feel this need to attack, we have a common enemy, the watchtower and the 7 old men in brooklyn, enacting rules for 8 million, sentencing many of them to death each year. I thought this had all blown over, so sorry to hear they are still giving you a hard time and attacking. I have experienced this as well on numerous sites and must say, block those who get abusive. No you are NOT required to put up with this abuse!
LLoyd, If these morons can get you to close down they will
have achieved their aim and will be happy. The WT, con men
will be delighted, But hundreds of us who have been helped
to freedom from cult domination, will be very sad.
The borderline psycho’s and full blown ones will always be out
there, it’s a fact of life that we’ve got to contend with. It’s
pointless appealing to their better nature it’s just isn’t there.
I came across two that you refer to, their video was just a
hysterical, almost maniacal rant. They had nothing worthwhile
to offer. I got the impression they needed psychiatric help.
They can’t emulate the qualities that you bring to this site, so
there’s a strong element of jealousy involved. It’s difficult for
a sensitive person to develop a thick skin, But it’s helpful
when confronted by these cretins.
I’me confident your will is equal to anything that they can throw
at you.
There’s a pair of hands holding on to set of bars, set in space, on the album cover of “crime of the century”. . . I wonder why?
Hi Lloyd,
I just want to say that your type of level headed approach is the only approach that can appeal to the majority of reasonable people who want to leave this cult.
I’ve also found that you have been quite respectful of other’s religious beliefs even if you don’t share in them. You are allowed to have your own beliefs and express them. From what I have seen you have been pretty good about not shying away from self criticism either.
That being said, not everyone wants peace and freedom. Some people want retribution. Others simply substitute one kind fanaticism with another, often in the form conspiracy theories, which often require larger logical leaps then they ever needed to make in Watchtower. Some people just want someone to burn.
Often trying to reason with the unreasonable actually makes things much worse. As infuriating as it can be, the best thing to do is to actually not dignify untruths with a response at all. It only draws attention to them, gives the them power, validation and recognition, which at the end of the day, is all they seek.
I can honestly say that I wouldn’t have even known much about these people at all if you hadn’t mentioned them..and you don’t want to be giving trolls any more web visits than they already get.
As an outsider, I might have one criticism, is that you engage the negativity. Just focus on the positive, on solutions, on reason, on healing. Ignore the hate.
“Hatred is like a poison which you inject into your veins, before injecting it into your enemy. It is throwing cow dung at another: you dirty your hands first, before you dirty others.” – Gems of Buddhist Wisdom (1996) from the Buddhist Missionary Society
a bit cheezy but true.
I hope you can all set this debate aside, call a truce and continue your efforts to help yourselves recover first, focus on your families and assist others when you are able. I respect and appreciate all the great articles and informative videos you have published. You have helped me and other family members in our ‘waking’ up. You and the other ex JWs have a lot of hurt, depression and frustration from the JW experience and background. I hope all can be mature adults and grow beyond the name calling and debates. Please continue you activism if you feel it is best for you – if not, please take a break and focus on your family. Don’t let this get you down, you are loved and respected. Please be careful about engaging in petty discussions on social media or commenting on videos. It would be better to say nothing if others are disagreeing or ‘attacking’ you. Then there will be no fuel for the flames. Take care and love to you all.
Sorry to hear you and your family are going through this! I respect and appreciate all your efforts in researching and presenting the articles of JWSurvey!
Keep fighting the good fight! There’s more with you than against you!!
THIS Anti JW WEBSITE is HEAD & SHOULDERS way above any other in Balanced& Logical Reasoning !!!
Mike & Kims and other Anti JW website that are Littered with SWEAR Words are Just Foul Mouthed & DO NOT Attract Decent People who wish to Leave the Watchtower,
I am still attending Meetings & Going on the Ministry just so I can try to Subtly save Family who are Still inside . There ARE MANY CRUEL VICIOUS Brothers & Sisters Inside the Organistion who Turn on me if I RAISE a GENUINE LOGICAL Question about the History of the Governing Body. I AM BLANKED ,IGNORED by Some BUT Some Elders are the Worse who Make Personal Nasty Comments from the Platform,When I just Raise an Innocent Question about The GB Changing their Interpretation of certain Doctrine. These Nasty Individuals will Fuss over New Ones to Get them trapped into the Organisation . There are plenty of MENTALLY Unbalanced individuals INSIDE the Organisation & when they LEAVE the Organisation they become Even more Mentally UNSTABLE!!!!
KEEP Up The GOOD WORK John Alias Lloyd!!
As Elijah once said THERE Are MORE With Us than Against US!! Your Humour,Logical Reasoning & your Time,Effort is MUCH APPRECIATED.Even though I don’t agree with your stance on Evolution 99% of what you Print & Publish about the GB & 7 Deluded Men I agree with your Reasoning.
PLEASE Continue as YOU HAVE SAVED MANY LIVES from being ENSLAVED from these 7 CONFIDENCE TRICKSTERS in BROOKLYN!!!
Hey Lloyd,
I just wanted to say that I am sorry about how you are feeling. I know what it’s like to battle depression ( thanks to the WT). There are idiots out there that do not know how to behave like mature adults when it comes to disagreements. Tony Prime Balchen cannot say anything intelligent and it is obvious he is an out of control person. I have seen the comments he made, and there is no excuse for such asinine behavior. Please hang in there! You have many out there that are supporting you. Don’t let garbage people cause you to stop the important work you are doing! Big hugs to you and your family! :-)
I forgot to say in my Last Comment:
Please Thank Your Wife as She must be Hurt at the Vitriol being heaped against you!
This Website is a BIG Sacrifice in terms of Time,Energy & Money by Both of You!!
Lloyd I am going to Pay you the Highest Compliment by Saying after Ray Franz & Barbara Anderson you Have Been the Biggest Influence on Saving People from ENSLAVEMENT to the Watchtower run by Mainly WHITE AMERICAN MEN with the TOKEN Black man thrown in !!
There were 52,000 taking the Emblems in 1935 mainly White Americans & White Europeans Like Most Nutty Religions come out of America:
Scientology,Mormonism, 7 Day Adventism,Pentecostal,Baptists,Etc,Etc
ACTS 11v26 says the NAME of the True Religion of the Bible would be Called ‘CHRISTIAN’
If someone today told 8 million JEHOVAH Witnesses to Follow a man Called RUSSELL who Based his Beliefs on PYRAMIDOLOGY as in the 7 books ‘ Studies in the Scripyures ‘ & that CHRIST chose this ORGANISATION in 1919 based on this being ‘Food at the Proper Time’ they would Laugh at these Teachings!!
The Trouble is hardly any present day JW has read these books which is CRAZY as JESUS is meant to have Chosen this Organiastion Based on what was written in these books!!!!’ & 8 Million MISLED Individuals will Change their Biblical Doctrine EVERY TIME 7 AMERICAN MEN TELL them to do so!!!
UTTER MADNESS????
Agreed…..utter vacuous madness trading One poison only to be replaced with another!